WEBVTT - Ep. 379: Welcome to Gear Talk - MeatEater Network Debut 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:18.040 All right, welcome to an episode of gear Talk where 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.040 Jordan Bud and I be honest but tell us we're 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:26.360 gonna talk all things gear. We just started this. We're 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:30.360 both super excited about it. Um. We love talking gear 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.120 and we want to help you understand and know and 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.200 just feel more comfortable, uh talking about gear, Understanding gear, 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:42.200 making good good gear, buying decisions when you're out there. 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.040 It's a big world of hunting gear these days, and 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.600 uh hopefully this podcastle um help you make some of 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.360 those decisions and get you out there in the right gear. 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:54.800 But my I just want to give a little bit 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:59.720 on myself. We're gonna do a little host intro bio today. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.840 I spent twelve years as a hunting and fishing guide, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.160 mostly down in Colorado, a little bit, uh little, did 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.720 a little bit of guiding in Old Mexico, but mostly Colorado. 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.759 Also did four years at the same time, I did 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.560 four years in retail, which was good. Um. I didn't 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.920 necessarily always like uh folding T shirts and sweaters, but 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.200 I did get to sit through a lot of pre 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.520 technical gear what do they call that, phil when like 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.800 a rep comes to the store, and then clinic gear 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:39.080 clinic training. Yeah. Um, and just I enjoyed that part 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.880 about about selling retail. You know, it's cool to learn 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.080 all about the new, latest and greatest and stuff, and 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.640 it just it opened up my sort of my experience 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.720 with all the gear that's out there by just being 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.040 able to work with, you know, all different types of 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.640 brands and products in the store, which was Starmaking Sports 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.440 and Edwards Colorado. If you ever down in that neck 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.920 of the woods, which is Eagle County, Colorado, go check 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.080 it out. It's a cool store. And then I've also 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.040 done ten years in outdoor TV production as many of 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:15.960 you know, producing Meat Eater television and uh doing Me 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:20.560 Eat podcast with Steve and now doing my own show 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:25.720 on the Hunt with the Honest Pitelis, which is available 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.520 on the Meat eat or YouTube channel. So, yeah, short 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.320 little bio on me Jordan's let me hear, let me 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.480 hear what your last twenty years have been all about? Yeah. 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:41.600 So started, uh originally from northwest Nebraska on a family ranch. 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:43.600 Was where I grew up and went high school and 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.560 all that stuff. Um, So I started guiding there and 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.440 that's really how I started, I mean just getting into 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.920 hunting stuff. I started guiding and then I really like 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.400 cameras also when I was in high school and college, 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.400 so picked up camera started filming just uh, you know, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.200 meeting people and making contacts. One thing led to the other, 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:10.639 and I started filming for an outdoor television show and 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:12.760 that took me all over the place. And that's really 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.799 we're like the Western hunting bug I think came from. 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.000 I mean, I always wanted to go out west before 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.799 and do my own hunts. But then when I started filming, um, 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.519 you know, that obviously opened my eyes to a lot 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.799 of things. And I got a lot of experiences in 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.560 a lot of different places, on a lot of different hunts. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.639 And that's I was able to try a ton of gear, 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.040 you know, doing that, a bunch of different gear and 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.880 a bunch of different situations and environments. And I just 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.600 I'm kind of a gear junkie anyways. And I don't 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.440 know really why other than I just like knowing what 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.880 I take and more so the why behind why you're 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.960 taking it. And uh, that's one of the reasons I'm 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.720 super excited for this podcast is to you know, bring 0:03:55.800 --> 0:04:00.520 all that so consumers can make a more educated purchase, 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.400 you know, going on some of these extreme hunts that 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.960 you only get to go once in a lifetime. On. Yeah, 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:10.120 that's a a good point about like being a gear junkie, 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.280 and and then it kind of transitions right into how 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.640 much money you spend on gear. I felt like there 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:20.440 was years for sure where I was guiding Elk Counts 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.159 and I was spending as much money on the gear 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.360 to to go and guide as I was probably making 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.480 throughout the whole season, just because I was so into it, 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.560 you know, trying different foots or backpacks or whatever. And uh, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.480 I've never been known to be like a great real 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:41.400 frugal you know, with the with the cash, but uh, 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.680 I guess that's what's hopefully helped me in to give 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.440 me some experience so I can do this job better. Now, Um, 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.800 I wanna you didn't really hit on it too hard, 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:52.760 but I want to ask you a question you've been on? 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:55.359 How many sheep punts have you been on? Not for 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.400 your personal self but just all total? How many sheep 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:03.640 punts I'm pretty sure are I think it's sixteen now, oh, 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.479 with this last Wyoming hunt that I filmed last year, 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.800 and how many of those have been in Alaska? There 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.040 have been one in Alaska and that was mine. Okay, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:14.800 so that was your first time up there. Sheep hunt 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:18.120 was when you went. Yeah. Everything else was desert big 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:23.000 horns in Mexico. Uh, I've done three, three or four 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.880 of those, and then um in Wyoming a bunch of 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.720 big horn sheep punts was most of it. Um one 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.160 stones in the Yukon, and then my dollar sheep in Alaska, 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:43.839 so only only one in Alaska. What was the first 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.360 thing we wanted to hit on Jordan's I pulled a 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.480 listener question out um talking about what's a key item 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.359 that you change in your pack from early to the 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.320 mid season. So that would just be in my mind 0:05:56.480 --> 0:06:01.640 considerations of the weather changing more so probably than anything, 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:06.000 start getting snowstorms in that like late September, early October 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:11.280 and then on through October, I suppose. Um, So yeah, 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:13.839 I mean, I think one of the bigger things for 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.600 me is that temperature dropping and wanting to add in 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.800 my own compadre puffy pants into the mix to make 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.360 the early mornings of glassing and later evenings a little 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.760 more comfortable. Yeah. Man, I love those pants, and a 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.280 lot of times with those pants I've come to not 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.200 packing even on the back country hunt, not packing long 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.920 underwear and just doing regular pants and the uncompagre of 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.320 puffy pants because I know that we have zip off 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.640 Long John's now, but it's even easier, I think, to 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.800 zip off those uncompagres, and those things are so much 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.320 warmer and so much thicker, and um, like you said, 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.240 kind of seems like something you're gonna wear first thing 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.599 and then last thing in the day, and so it's 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.760 really easy to zip them off, cram them into the 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.560 bio of the pack, and not really pull them back 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.359 out until later. So I like them. Although it might 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.560 be a little bit heavier than going Long John's, like, 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:11.760 it's definitely way way warmer. But yeah, that's a nice 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.760 piece of gear. Um I was gonna go with. I mean, 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.160 obviously closed in general, you're just gonna be packing a 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:19.800 little bit more because you're gonna have to just have 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.240 more installation, you know, to stay warm. But I would 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.559 say that one of my main like items of gear, 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.720 and it's kind of a two part thing, but it's 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.600 like shelter and then like the sleeping system because early 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.080 season I'm always just trying to like push it and 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.200 go as light as possible with the lightest sleeping bag 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:43.080 and the lightest shelter as possible, because you know, even 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.600 if you get a little wet or if something crappy 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:50.280 happens in early September, it's usually just not gonna last, 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:51.920 you know, and it's not gonna be enough to drive 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.600 me out of the mountains. But like if that happens 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.160 in October and you get kind of miserable, boy, it 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.000 is very easy for that to push and back back 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:06.040 to the trailhead. So um, I'm gonna go to definitely 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.480 a zero degree bag. Like I like to sleep warm 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.080 and like to be super comfy, and so if it 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.840 gets into October at all, I'm going zero degree bag 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.760 even late September sometimes, and I'm happily going to carry 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.680 that extra little bit of weight. And then there's gonna 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.560 be no more tarp shelters or like just like the 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:32.040 super lightweight stuff, I want a more robust shelter that 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.600 I can really count on to stand up to the wind. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.439 I'm gonna make sure that I got all my guidelines 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.200 set up. I got plenty of steaks, you know, to 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.720 handle a wind event or handle like a heavy snow event. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.880 And then if I know or if I think it's 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.200 gonna be on the colder side, Like I'll pack a 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.760 floorless shelter like a again depending on how many people 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:55.920 are gonna be in it, but like a seek outside 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.160 Simmarron or Red Cliff, that I can have a stove 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:03.200 in and burn wood and be super comfy. Like I 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.720 know a d for a fact that I've been in 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.520 a ton of just really good hunting conditions really because 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.160 you like it when it's cold and it's snowing and stuff. 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.040 It just keeps the animals on their feet more. But 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.320 if you can't stay comfortable in those conditions, you know 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.560 you're not going to be out there. But having that 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.040 shelter that you can come back to in the evenings 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.880 light of fire, warm up, dry out, some gear, sleep 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.560 super comfy and toasty, it keeps you out there and 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.200 thus hopefully makes you more successful. Yeah, huge mental boost 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.160 being able to to come back after a long day 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.239 and uh let the fire. It really changes your attitude 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.679 or it can um and make you a little more 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.480 excited about having to uh you know, get up early 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.080 the next day and go out and do it again. 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.959 So that's one thing on my list as well, is uh, 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.920 start thinking about when you you know you get snowstorms, 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.319 especially that early October time frame. Seems like those snowstorms, 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.240 just like late September, really wet and sloshy. They might 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.920 melt pretty quick, but also means they're pretty wet and 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:15.480 um being able to go light a stove and dry 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.800 all your stuff out again, it's just gonna let you 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.320 be more comfortable and stay out there longer. So that's 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.880 something certainly on my list. Oh yeah, it's a dent. 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:30.640 The difference between miserable and like very content and happy. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.360 it makes it makes a huge difference. A simple thing 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:38.439 called fire. Yeah, that's another thing that's definitely got to 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.920 be considered later too. I mean other things to go 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.160 right along with that, like fire starters one you've got 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.360 to be thinking about. I think a little bit more, 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:49.840 especially for the safety side of things. If you get 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.360 in a situation, you have to start one. So I 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.280 really like that pyro putty. Have you used that? I 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.640 haven't used actual pyro putty. I have something similar that's 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.720 called like a as a bit cube, which is actually 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.200 used for they make a whole there's a whole like 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:09.920 cooking system, stove system that uses these little cubes um, 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.640 but it's basically like a small little cube. I don't 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.599 know how much it weighs. It might be like the 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:16.880 size of my thumb weighs the same as my thumb, 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:21.320 but it'll it burns for ten minutes, one little cube. 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.800 So yeah, it's it's should give you ample time to 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.800 you know, add on your kindling and whatever and get 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.840 yourself a ripper going yeah, yeah, I think a good 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.360 fire starter is good, like very flammable to give you 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.280 a good base to start with. And then I mean 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.440 I usually take a tarp with me all the time anyways, 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.840 but I would say, especially when the weather starts, to 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:49.360 turn a tarp to block the wind and shelter you 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:51.600 from the elements if there's just a squall that comes 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.640 through something. So it's just like a small tarp, super 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.920 pacable something else that I always have with me. And 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.760 when we transition into those later months, like yip, I 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.719 was gonna say that something that I change, but it's 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.360 not really a change because I like to carry an 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.840 arrow will net gator in the hotter part of this 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.840 season to keep the sun off me. But then I 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.520 usually always have a net gator too packed in for 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.840 when it gets colder. And man, I feel like it 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.280 is one of those pieces of gear that just can 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.640 really save my butt because I'll just have it. It's 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.240 weighs nothing. It's so small. I mean, it weighs like 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.480 the amount of the same amount of like a handkerchief, 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.520 and I'll have it tucked way in a pocket. And 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:33.480 if I'm sitting somewhere and it's been a while, I 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.959 feel like myself I'm getting cold. Man, I hopefully I remember, 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.120 but I put that sucker on and it just seems 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:43.319 like that actual little tighter layer around my neck insulates 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.440 all that blood moving, you know, between my body and head, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.520 and uh, just seems to make a world of difference. 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.640 So net Gator, let's feel like it's one of those 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.080 pieces of gear that super lightweight, doesn't take up a 0:12:56.120 --> 0:13:09.920 lot of space. Alright. Next segment is ask the experts. 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.079 Matt Derosier's from First Light is here with us to 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.839 explain breathable laminates. And that's like that little thin layer 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.559 that's inside of your water proof raine jacket and inside 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:27.040 other jackets that basically keeps like the big heavy moisture 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.320 from the outside world from coming in. But yeah, it 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:34.840 lets the steam and the you know, sort of sweaty 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.240 environment that you've created on the inside to move out 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:42.640 through it. So MAT's gonna help us understand exactly what 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.200 those are, how they work, and um, what you should 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.880 expect of them. Um when you go and buy a 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.720 rain jacket or another jacket that has a breathable laminate 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.280 in it. Take it away, Matt, you want to give 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.280 a little intro on what you do for first Light. Yeah, So, 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.600 like Jordan's said, my name is Matthew Roger's. I'm the 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:07.320 senior category manager of Western Big Game product at first Light. UM, 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.640 and essentially the scope of my role is to kind of, 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.240 I guess like be the custodian of overseeing the total 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.400 business of of what we make and how that and 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.440 how those products life cycles track in the market and 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.560 ensuring we're addressing the correct needs of the consumer in 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.000 the market and building the correct gear. So it kind 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:32.720 of spans responsibilities across the business scope, the creative scope, 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:35.320 the market, the scope of the market, and then working 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.120 with our design development teams to ensure that those needs 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.800 I see, um, from both consumers in the market, etcetera, 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:47.360 are being met correctly inappropriately. UM. So it's it's kind 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.720 of a left brain right brain role. I guess sometimes 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.040 you're you're all numbers and sometimes you're creative. And I 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:54.840 find it very fun because every day is a little 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.440 bit different. But um, you kind of get to put 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.840 your hands on everything in terms of bringing new products 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.840 to life. Awesome. Let's just go to like breathable lamb 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.200 in it one oh one and just really like not 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.920 even looking at it from a first light perspective, but 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:16.280 just sort of, you know, explain when someone's like talking 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.280 breathable lambinates are looking at breathable lamb and it's like, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.880 what exactly is that and what does it do? Yeah, 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.280 So there's a tremendous amount of science and engineering and 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.480 work that goes into these laminates that essentially are hidden 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.720 in your garments. Um. They're they're usually sandwich between you know, 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.880 the outer layer and the inner layer of a garment. Um. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:39.840 So you have your lining facing your skin or your 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.360 base layer and your outer layering in between. There you 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:47.560 have these very thin, flexible layers of material. And there's 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.840 two types. There's usually have either a microporous laminate or 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:56.640 like a monolithic laminate. Microporous is there's teeny teeny holes 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.840 in it. That won't let it drop. Their too small 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.720 out a microscopic low will for a drop of water 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:05.440 to pass through it, but they're large enough that condensing 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.360 moisture vapor from your body like sweat, can pass through 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.880 it and escape the garment, So they're they're repelling any 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:17.240 moisture that's getting to them. A droplet of rain, for instance, 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.600 can't get through it, but your moisture vapor when you're 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:23.040 sweating as it's condensing, is leaving the garment due to 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.840 the tiny holes and those layers, those microporous layers are 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:31.240 usually what's considered a hydrophobic layer. And it's sounds very technical, 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.800 but like it's it's a phobic. It's it's like a phobias. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.840 So the layer actually repulses. It's like, for lack of 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.000 a better word, scared. It has a phobia of water 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.080 and pushes water away from itself. And that's kind of 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:47.760 the really traditional type laminate you'll see in most garments. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:49.840 You know. That's where like that's kind of like where 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.520 you're to use a household name like gortex uses a 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.200 traditional microporous laminate that's hydrophobic, and that's kind of like 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.960 where you're your o g laminate science starts. Who's condensing 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.800 it or how is it actually condensing? Like it's like 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.320 the moisture is leaving my body and it's in the 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:13.040 space between me and the jacket. Where does the condensing happen? Oh, 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.200 your body heat is gonna is what's condensing as it's drying. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.600 It's it's becoming gaseous within the jacket from the heat 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.600 within the jacket, from the heat with your body. So 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.040 it's as it's drying, it's returning to a vapor of vapors, 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.320 a state of vapor, and that's what can actually be 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.000 pushed down. Now that's not to say every droplet of 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.040 sweat that's coming out of your body is gonna, you know, 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.000 be pushed out of the jacket and returned to a 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.520 gas to state. But like that clammy feeling when you're 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.719 sweating and it's getting humid in a in a jacket 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.280 under high exertion, that's water vapor. That's sweat in a 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.120 gas to state, and that's what you want to push 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.800 out because it's actually you don't want that vapor to 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.480 actually condensed inside the jacket because then you have a 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.200 bunch of water droplets forming inside the jacket and getting 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:56.919 you wet a second time. So you want it to 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.000 condense itself out of the jacket. Does that make sense? 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.320 You're staying like condensed once it's outside of the jacket. 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:06.720 You want it to you want it to leave the 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:11.560 jacket before it's condensed back to a liquid. It's almost 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.080 like a greenhouse, you know, like your greenhouse gets humid 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.119 and has water vapor in the air because of the 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.000 humidity being trapped in there, and what you want the 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.800 jacket to do is be releasing as much of that 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.399 as possible, you know. I mean most of the time, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.600 what people are looking at breathability ratings, they want the 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.320 highest breathability rating of the highest ret rating. That's saying 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.080 that when you have that humid gas in the air 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:37.000 inside the jacket, it's getting pushed out of the jacket 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.480 before it becomes liquid again and absorbs into your insulation 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.320 or your base layer, et ceteras. You really want it 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.280 out of the jacket before it becomes water again. Okay. 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.680 And like the simplest form, it's literally like a very 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.600 when you say very thin layer, like how thin is it? Like? 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:56.760 Is it even like if you if you're just holding 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.239 up a piece of a breathe able laminate, Like, can 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.240 I see through it? Is it that thin? Usually not, 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.520 you can't see through it. It's usually like a you know, 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.159 they're usually like grays and silver's um. If it was 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.520 if it was like more of a a knit, you'd 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.320 probably see through it, but then it would let a 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:17.600 lot of water through it. But I mean to actually 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:20.399 hold one a layer of that laminate, they're so thin, 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.000 it's like it's like cellophane thin. It's you'd almost be like, 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:28.680 I can't believe this stops water. They're so ultra thin um. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:31.480 And it's really just the chemistry that goes into them 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.440 and how they react with you know, when they come 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:38.960 into contact with both varying states of liquid that makes 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.520 them waterproof and allows them to breathe at the same time. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.959 It's it's really incredible if you think about it, it's 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.200 something so thin does that. And and that's I think 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.280 that's another good point, you honest, is that's why it's 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.080 so imperative to have like a good lining in a 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.200 jacket and protect those laminates, because once they become contaminated 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.200 or take over exposure that you know, they start to fail. 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.480 So having like a lining in a jacket is imperative 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.480 that keeps the oils from your skin out of it. 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.639 It keeps dirt, it keeps blood when you process an animal. 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.840 It keeps all those like external factors from getting into 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.640 the laminate and very quickly ruining it. And that's kind 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.040 of where you see the separation in terms of quality 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.200 of gears. It's like, well, this is constructed in a 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.119 in a sense that after a season or after a 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.480 hard hunt, it's not going to fall apart. It's going 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.520 to the lambin. It's not going to be flaking off 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.160 or coming apart. It's protected and you're gonna get years 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.480 of use out of this versus a cheaper jacket where 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:35.240 that laminate gets contaminated quickly and it's it's a one 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.520 season type deal. Okay, you were saying there's another kind 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.480 of laminate though, that this one that you explained. It's 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:47.600 like gortex is a you called it microporous, yep. And 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.400 then what's the other kind. So there's monolithic laminates, which 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:53.840 you know, I guess kind of subject to the word 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:59.600 a monolith is a is a singular, never interrupted sheet. 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.000 So you'll have these don't have holes in them. It's 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.680 almost literally like similar. I guess to just create a 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:09.760 like a layman's term to understand it. It's almost just 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.200 like a sheet of cellophane. It doesn't look like cellophane, 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.280 it doesn't act like cellophane. But there's no holes. It's 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:18.480 it's an uninterrupted continuous sheet of laminate that can be 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.480 laminated in a bi component way, which you can have 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:26.200 a microporous and a monolithic stack together. Um, those don't 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.560 have holes. What those do usually when you see a 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:34.000 monolithic laminate is there what's called hydrophilic. Now, remember the 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:39.280 microporous was hydrophobic and pushed it away. Hydrophilic is actually 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:43.840 going to attract moisture that it finds into itself and 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.280 then work to overtime condense it out of itself. So 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.800 having a monolithic layer, it can attract both sweat in 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.960 a garment or water that's made it through let's say 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.840 a microporous layer or through a seam. It can attract 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.240 that into itself and trap it and then over time 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:02.240 work to push it out of the jacket again and 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:04.880 condense it out of the rain layer. So that's where 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.280 you kind of see like bi component laminates, you get 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:12.000 a microporous and a monolithic layer, one hydrophobic, one hydrophilic, 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:17.320 but they're working in tandem together two stop any precipitation 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.320 from actually making it to you internally while also moving 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.000 your sweat that those condensed vapors out of the jacket 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:29.200 to keep you comfortable and dry internally. Okay, Jordan, any 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.600 questions on breathable laminates. I think the only thing I 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.960 had was you talked about like a rating system. Is 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:40.440 that something that like the consumer sees that in some 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:44.760 marketing with some garments of like, hey it's X breathability. 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:46.720 Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, I 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:50.440 mean a lot of times you'll see UM, historically you've 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:55.199 seen m v TR rates, which is moisture vapor transfer rates. UM. 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:57.240 You see those in a lot of places, and that 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:00.119