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Speaker 1: My welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm

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Speaker 1: Joe McCormick and Robert. Do you remember just about seventeen

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Speaker 1: years ago how disappointing it was that the year two

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Speaker 1: thousand one was not like the year two thousand one

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Speaker 1: in the movie two thousand one Space Odyssey. Well, certainly

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Speaker 1: it did not resemble the night film two thousand one

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Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey. It did not resemble that that vision

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Speaker 1: of the future, not exactly. We were not uh, we

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Speaker 1: were not traveling. We did not have a moon base.

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Speaker 1: I want my milk carton of corn to suck to

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Speaker 1: a straw well that can be arranged if that's if

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Speaker 1: that's the definite uh, you know, futuristic experience you're looking for.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, this is this is a classic science fiction film,

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Speaker 1: perhaps the classic science fiction film. I mean, you can

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Speaker 1: you can certainly make a case for other pivotal works

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Speaker 1: of sci fi cinema, But Stanley Kubrick and Arthously Clark's

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one is a film that has stood

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Speaker 1: the test of time inspired just countless other sci fi

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Speaker 1: visions and uh and yeah, that definitely gave us this

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Speaker 1: this sort of benchmark to look for in the future.

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Speaker 1: So the reason we're talking about two thousand one of

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Speaker 1: Space Odyssey is because this year that movie is actually

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Speaker 1: fifty years old. It's hard to believe it half a

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Speaker 1: century old. It was released in April of nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 1: and so because of the fiftieth anniversary, because the movie

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Speaker 1: is so endlessly fascinating to talk about, we thought we

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Speaker 1: would devote today to a discussion of two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: the film itself, it's ideas, and its legacy. Robert, how

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Speaker 1: old were you when you first saw two thousand one? Oh?

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Speaker 1: You know, I saw it when I was pretty young,

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Speaker 1: so I don't have a very um concrete memory of it.

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Speaker 1: I think my dad he either he had had a

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Speaker 1: VHS copy of it playing or it was on TV.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but i'd say, oh, maybe I was

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Speaker 1: eight or something. I'm not sure, but I remember it

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Speaker 1: being a very interesting film to watch because it was

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Speaker 1: it has this dreamlike quality to it that is there

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Speaker 1: no matter what level of of awareness you're approaching it

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Speaker 1: with as a viewer, you know, whether you understand the

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Speaker 1: more complicated, uh, science, fictional or philosophical aspects of its message.

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Speaker 1: There's still this this hypnotic quality to the film that

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Speaker 1: draws you in. I have a weird question about it.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if a kid for whom the plot pretty

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Speaker 1: much goes over their head actually understands the movie better

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Speaker 1: than an adult who can grasp more of the content

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Speaker 1: of the plot. Do you think about that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: because the movie is in many ways it's almost like

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Speaker 1: a more like a painting or like a you know,

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Speaker 1: a work of art that is radically open to interpretation,

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Speaker 1: where the stuff that the characters do, I'm not so

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Speaker 1: sure that it matters as much as more than kind

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Speaker 1: of like visual themes established and the questions raised by

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Speaker 1: you know, the spectacle before your eyes. Yeah, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: spectacle is is a huge part of it. I I

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Speaker 1: actually was tempted. I thought, well, should I let my

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Speaker 1: six year old see at least part of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one and just see what his take is on it?

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Speaker 1: And I did not quite get around to performing any

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Speaker 1: a test of that sort um, but I have a

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Speaker 1: feeling he would be drawn in by the visuals for sure.

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Speaker 1: Just thinking about the visuals alone, it's hard to believe

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Speaker 1: this movie is half a century old, Like we were

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Speaker 1: saying a minute ago, it still feels so weird and

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Speaker 1: so fresh and so intellectually adventurous. Apparently, you know. When

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Speaker 1: it premiered. One of the things about the movie is

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Speaker 1: that it's mostly silent. There are only actually very limb

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Speaker 1: They did parts of it where characters are speaking to

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Speaker 1: each other, and according to the stories about the premier,

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Speaker 1: the first audience, it's just hating. Not everybody. There were

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Speaker 1: some people who saw, Okay, this is revolutionary, something very

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Speaker 1: different and new and original is happening here. But a

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Speaker 1: lot of the Hollywood hot shots who were in attendance

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Speaker 1: just hated it. There were tons of people walking out

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Speaker 1: of the theater. Allegedly, Rock Hudson walked out saying out loud,

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Speaker 1: will someone tell me what the hell this is about? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because it is a film in which a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff does not happen, a lot happens. It's

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Speaker 1: a film that that that kind of sums up the

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Speaker 1: ascent of humanity and where humanity might go beyond beyond

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Speaker 1: our planet. But at the same time, every time something

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Speaker 1: seems to be happening, but we kind of get a cut,

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Speaker 1: you know, the scenes where characters are having pivotal discussions

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Speaker 1: about what's happening. It's becomes just sort of a staple

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Speaker 1: of so many other films. Like most films are missing

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Speaker 1: the murder that occurs to in the film is not

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Speaker 1: actually seen, so it when you're watching two thousand one

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Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey, there is almost this sense that someone

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Speaker 1: is messing with you by removing these key bits of

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Speaker 1: information that should tell you what you're supposed to think about. Well,

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Speaker 1: I can understand people hating it at first because it is,

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Speaker 1: in a way an intentionally challenging film. It's it goes

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Speaker 1: against narrative conventions in a very deliberate way. Another thing

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Speaker 1: about it is just I'm not usually a person to

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Speaker 1: call out special effects first as a thing to love

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Speaker 1: about the movie, but the visual effects in this movie

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Speaker 1: are just unparalleled in so many ways. They look astonishingly realistic.

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Speaker 1: For for you know, a time in the nineteen sixties

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Speaker 1: when we hadn't even been to the moon yet when

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Speaker 1: this movie was made, we had not been to the

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Speaker 1: moon or space. Photography was very limited, so it's amazing

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Speaker 1: they could get something looking as accurate to the experience

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Speaker 1: of outer space as as they did. But then at

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Speaker 1: the same time it's so derealized, it's so unreal, and

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Speaker 1: uh it has almost kind of a Dario Argento kind

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Speaker 1: of quality, though of course it predates Argento, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: like the you know, the strange lights and the way

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Speaker 1: the colors color our moods. It's so good. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad Argento did not direct it. By the way, it

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Speaker 1: would have been a very different film. Yeah, then the Monk,

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Speaker 1: the the the the Dawn of Man sequence might have

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Speaker 1: been similar. But uh, yeah, the special effects in this

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Speaker 1: film are just so breathtaking. I feel like, if anyone

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Speaker 1: out there is wondering, what is it like to watch

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one A Space Obessey with Robert Lamb,

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Speaker 1: it's like, every five minutes may sang aloud, why can't

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Speaker 1: we make why don't we make movies that look like this? Now?

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Speaker 1: You know, why can't why can't why don't spaceships look

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Speaker 1: like this anymore? In films? And basically they don't look

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Speaker 1: this good in anything else. For instance, nineteen seventy two

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Speaker 1: Silent Running, another one of my favorite sci fi films,

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Speaker 1: was directed by Douglas Trumbull. Who worked on two thousand

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Speaker 1: one worked on the effects, and Silent Running looks fabulous,

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Speaker 1: but it's not as pressed pristine as two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: And obviously you can point to a lot of different

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Speaker 1: reasons for that. But then there's you know, you can

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Speaker 1: you can say, well, these other films were not directed

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Speaker 1: by Kubrick. They maybe they did not have the budget,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have the right key artistic people in place. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this kind of perfect storm of creativity and intent. But

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Speaker 1: but but you end up with this film that you

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Speaker 1: just looks so unlike anything else. And every single frame

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Speaker 1: of this film I feel like you could you could

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Speaker 1: print out and you could put on the wall and

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Speaker 1: and no one would question the choice. It's also, somehow

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Speaker 1: a movie that many people I think have tried to

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Speaker 1: copy and been unable to. It's a movie the style

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Speaker 1: of which is uncopyable. Uh My, I've talked about this

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Speaker 1: a good bit with with my friend Dave. He he

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Speaker 1: often points out that you have the sequel to the

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Speaker 1: film two thousand intent, which which did not did not direct,

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Speaker 1: came out in the eights. Oh, who was the guy

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Speaker 1: who directed two thousand ten? Oh, he's the same amount

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Speaker 1: gentleman and directed Outland as alcohol Peter Hyams, and not

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Speaker 1: just Outland. He made Time Cop. The guy who made

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Speaker 1: two thousand ten made Time Cop. Well, it's interesting just

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Speaker 1: if you just look at the trailers um between the

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Speaker 1: two and you see just this stark difference because on one,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, you have the again that the pristine

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Speaker 1: white um, you know, almost hermetically sealed edible, uh, seeming

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Speaker 1: like you feel like you could just bite into the

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Speaker 1: white chocolate goodness of the spaceships in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: one of Space Odyssey, and then by two thousand and

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Speaker 1: ten everything is industrial and grimy, and not just the

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Speaker 1: says the order of the day it was, but but

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Speaker 1: not only the sets but also the character interactions, because

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Speaker 1: suddenly it's not this this very subdued performance, limited uh interaction,

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Speaker 1: limited discussions between characters. No, you have Roy Scheider run

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Speaker 1: and center, mayor not Mayor of Amity from Jaws, Chief

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Speaker 1: of Police, Chief Brody. Yeah, Chief Brody is just right

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Speaker 1: up front getting into you know, loud discussions with all

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Speaker 1: available characters. We're gonna need a bigger spacecraft before we

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Speaker 1: keep going. Let's let's actually just listen to an excerpt

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Speaker 1: from the original theatrical trailer for two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: millions of years ago, before the human race existed, an

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Speaker 1: adventure began, an adventure that ultimately leads man to confront

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Speaker 1: his own destiny in anticy of exploration. Sounds great even

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Speaker 1: without those impressive visuals. I feel like you still get

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Speaker 1: you still hear that, and you just sucked in. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the music is a big part of the movie. In fact,

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Speaker 1: they're their segments of the movie where the screen is

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Speaker 1: black and it's just music, and I think that's a

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Speaker 1: very important part of the experience. It's as well. Uh so,

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Speaker 1: if you've never seen the movie and you don't want

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Speaker 1: it spoiled, I don't know if that really makes sense

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Speaker 1: with this movie, you might want to pause this and

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Speaker 1: go watch it. Now. We're about to talk about what

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Speaker 1: happens in the plot. But I would say this is

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Speaker 1: not a movie that is that is really going to

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Speaker 1: be spoiled by you knowing what happens in advance. That's

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Speaker 1: not really the point. Yeah, because again, at leaves so

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Speaker 1: much for interpretation and it's so visual. I would urge

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Speaker 1: you definitely, if you have the ability, you get the

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Speaker 1: blu ray on this one, because this is a film

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Speaker 1: where the higher definition available the better. So the movie

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Speaker 1: is basically broken into four parts. Would you say that's fair?

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Speaker 1: Would you say three or four? Um? I would say

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Speaker 1: it's broken into four parts, kind of three separate movies

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Speaker 1: that are and it will feel like that. You're like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I guess we're done with this section. Now, Uh, let's

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Speaker 1: follow this character. So the first section you get a

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Speaker 1: title card it says the Dawn of Man, and you've

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Speaker 1: got this group of early hominids. I think it's suggested,

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Speaker 1: well not, I think it is definitely suggested that these

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Speaker 1: are our ancestors. That you go back some number of

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Speaker 1: millions of years and they are these sort of desert

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Speaker 1: savannah dwelling ape like creatures, and they are hanging around

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Speaker 1: eating plants, hiding from a leopard that attacks them, and

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Speaker 1: fighting with another band of apelike creatures over access to

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Speaker 1: a puddle of water. And then one day they wake

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Speaker 1: up and find this great black rectangle, this rectangular box

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Speaker 1: that's known in the in the stories the monolith, this

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Speaker 1: slab of matter that is unlike anything in their natural habitat.

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Speaker 1: It's not only unlike anything they've seen, it embodies interesting

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Speaker 1: mathematical characteristics, like the dimension ratios are one, four and nine,

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Speaker 1: so it's nine units high, four units wide, and one

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Speaker 1: unit deep. Of course, one four and nine are the

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Speaker 1: squares of the first three integers one, two, and three.

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Speaker 1: And so, after first being frightened by the monolith and

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Speaker 1: they kind of scream at it and do territorial displays,

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Speaker 1: one of them gets the courage to go up and

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Speaker 1: touch it, and then they all begin to touch it,

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Speaker 1: and the encounter some how triggers something in human evolution,

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Speaker 1: and the mechanism is not explained, But something happens to

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Speaker 1: these ape like creatures, right they they this amazing sequence.

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Speaker 1: They be one of them, in particular, I believe this

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Speaker 1: is Moon gazer Uh as he's referred to in the book,

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Speaker 1: picks up the bone of one of these taper creatures

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Speaker 1: that they're living among and realizes that he can wield

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Speaker 1: it as a tool and wield it as a weapon. Right,

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Speaker 1: Grabbing the femur of one of these tapers gives you leverage,

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Speaker 1: and that extra leverage makes all the difference in the

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Speaker 1: world for these creatures, who now suddenly have the ability

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Speaker 1: to kill the tapers and eat the meat and to

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Speaker 1: fight off the predators right exactly, to fight off the leopard,

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Speaker 1: to defend, to win in territorial disputes with the other

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Speaker 1: with the other ape like creatures over the water puddle,

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Speaker 1: and so in victory, then one of the ape like

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Speaker 1: creatures throws this bone up in the air, and then

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Speaker 1: we get one of the most fantastic cuts in all

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Speaker 1: of movie history, where the bone immediately cuts to a

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Speaker 1: spacecraft above the Earth. It's like a five million year

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Speaker 1: smash cut. It's also the reason that in Mystery Science

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Speaker 1: Theater three thousand, the satellite of Love looks like a bone.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, they have They said that explicitly, Joel

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Speaker 1: Joel Hodgson says that explicitly. But it's shaped like a

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Speaker 1: cartoon bone. It's like the two little lobes on each side,

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Speaker 1: or like a dog chew toy bone. And then of

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Speaker 1: course after this we're in the age of space exploration,

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Speaker 1: which is where the rest of the movie takes place.

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Speaker 1: So you've got this middle section that is not given

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Speaker 1: a title card, so it doesn't let you know explicitly

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Speaker 1: this is a different part of the story. But a

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Speaker 1: character named Heywood Floyd is flying around in space travels

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Speaker 1: to a space station and then to the Moon to

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Speaker 1: investigate an anomaly that's been discovered on the surface of

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Speaker 1: the Moon, where researchers on a moon base have discovered

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Speaker 1: an underground object generating a strong magnetic field. So they

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Speaker 1: dig it up and it's another monolith, right. I should

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Speaker 1: also add that it's only in this sequence that we

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Speaker 1: get any dialogue. We go and what feels like an

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Speaker 1: astounding amount of time in the film without any characters

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Speaker 1: speaking to anyone, no narrow ration, nothing, and it's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: It's just hypnotic. Uh, the scenes of the of the

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Speaker 1: Taurus space station rotating there with the classical music playing

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Speaker 1: behind it. Absolutely and that that the whole thing about

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Speaker 1: space stations in the sequence is a really interesting and

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Speaker 1: deliberate filmmaking choice on Kubrick's part. I think um because

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Speaker 1: very often what you want to show in in sci

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Speaker 1: fi of the time. You know, if you had the

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Speaker 1: sci fi of the fifties, sixties, Flash Gordon type stuff,

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Speaker 1: you you would have wanted to show spaceships as an exciting,

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Speaker 1: fast moving, powerful thing. But instead spacecraft in this movie

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Speaker 1: are are presented as a thing as a kind of

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Speaker 1: like slow moving, very careful behemoth technology. Yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: and I also love how the station itself that we

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Speaker 1: see is unfinished. Yeah. So there's not this sense of

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Speaker 1: this pristine sense of all right, humans have done it,

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Speaker 1: They're in space now, they've got it all worked out. No,

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Speaker 1: there's the sense that even though this this technological world

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Speaker 1: is so advanced compared to what we had then and

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Speaker 1: also what we have now in many respects, yet um

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Speaker 1: it is still on finish. It is still work in progress.

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Speaker 1: We will definitely come back and talk more about the

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Speaker 1: about the technological reality of the space travel sequence later.

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Speaker 1: But um, so what happens in the plus so they

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Speaker 1: find this monolith on the Moon. It emits a powerful

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Speaker 1: radio signal when sunlight touches it, and it seems to

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Speaker 1: indicate that there's something else for them to find an

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Speaker 1: orbit around Jupiter. You know, I thought we rewatching it

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Speaker 1: for this episode. This was the first time I realized

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Speaker 1: that without that sequence, Um, the Ark of the Covenant

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Speaker 1: in Raiders at the Lost Ark would have been very different,

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Speaker 1: because clearly that's where Steven Spielberg got the inspiration for

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Speaker 1: the way the arc is presented. You mean the opening

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Speaker 1: scene at the end of the movie. Yes, yeah, don't

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Speaker 1: look at it, yes, exactly. You know, that scene I

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Speaker 1: think takes a page from two thousand one in multiple ways.

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Speaker 1: There's the sort of staging of the scene which is

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Speaker 1: clearly aesthetically derived from two thousand one. But I think

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Speaker 1: also the mystery of the scene, how it's not really

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Speaker 1: fully explained, how Indie no is not to look at it,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, yeah, I agree, interesting bit of Hollywood

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Speaker 1: gossip trivia. But during the filming of Raiders, uh, the

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Speaker 1: Arc and the Monolith we're actually dating. Not many people

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Speaker 1: know that it should have known better than to trust

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Speaker 1: an ARC and ar ARC will break your heart every time.

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Speaker 1: So then we go to the next sequence, the third

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Speaker 1: sequence of the movie, which is a crude mission to

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Speaker 1: Jupiter in a spacecraft called Discovery one. So you've got

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Speaker 1: several crew members who were in hibernation, and then you've

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Speaker 1: got two astronauts named David Bowman and Frank Poole who

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Speaker 1: are awake, and the Discovery One, we find out, is

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Speaker 1: controlled by an onboard artificial intelligence called HOW nine thousand.

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Speaker 1: It's always been fun to point out, especially years ago

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Speaker 1: when I was wrestling with the sluggish IBM for eight six,

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Speaker 1: that of course, How as an acronym is just one

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Speaker 1: letter removed from IBM H A L. I actually never

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Speaker 1: put that together before. I don't know if that was intentional,

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Speaker 1: like assume it was. But How advertises the fact that he,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's an artificial intelligence. He has conversations with people.

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Speaker 1: He sort of presents himself as in many ways a person.

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Speaker 1: He straight up says that he has consciousness, kind of

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Speaker 1: off handedly, but uh. And he also advertises that he

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Speaker 1: is perfect and that he is incapable of error. And

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Speaker 1: of course, when Hal begins to appear to malfunction, Bowman

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Speaker 1: and Pool are really troubled by this, so they secretly

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Speaker 1: decide to take How offline and complete the mission under

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Speaker 1: human control without the artificially intelligent computer. How becomes aware

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Speaker 1: of their plans and tries to kill them. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: believes that if he's deactivated, it'll put the mission in jeopardy,

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Speaker 1: So How kills Frank Pool during a spacewalk and then

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Speaker 1: tries to kill David Bowman. But Bowman manages to get

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Speaker 1: inside the ship and deactivate the computer. And as he's

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Speaker 1: doing this, there's this long, strange sequence where Hal begs

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Speaker 1: for his life and I forgot how how unnerving that

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Speaker 1: whole sequence is, while where the com pewter is begging

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Speaker 1: not to be killed, while the while the astronaut is

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Speaker 1: taking out its memory. Yeah, yeah, just the what are

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Speaker 1: you doing day? We tend to I feel like I

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Speaker 1: tend to remember just a little bit of it, but

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Speaker 1: it does. It goes on for a while as he's

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Speaker 1: slowly removing he well, first as he's gaining access to

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Speaker 1: the chamber, and then slowly removing each of those cards.

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Speaker 1: And then in the final sequence of the movie, Bowman

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Speaker 1: reaches the destination on Jupiter and discovers another monolith there

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Speaker 1: in orbit around Jupiter, and this monolith, unlike the others,

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Speaker 1: which were just solid objects, appears to be some kind

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Speaker 1: of doorway or gateway, which begins this surreal sequence that

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Speaker 1: ends the movie, where Bowman is apparently taken across vast

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Speaker 1: distances and shown incomprehensible sights. We it's it's hard to

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Speaker 1: know exactly how literally to take the things that he

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Speaker 1: appears to be seeing. We're shown a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: apparently from his perspective, that are just colors and hard

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Speaker 1: to understand. Yeah, there's this sense that is definitely an

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Speaker 1: acid trip vibe to it. I mean some of the

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Speaker 1: visuals so where we see these sort of cosmic explosions

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Speaker 1: taking place like those are are are films of like

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Speaker 1: oil uh that are very similar to some of those,

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Speaker 1: like those oil projection patterns that you see in like

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Speaker 1: sixties musical performances, whether you know, projected on the on

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Speaker 1: the screen or on the band itself. It reminds me

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Speaker 1: of like stand brackage movies like if you've ever seen

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Speaker 1: a Dog, Starman or anything like that, experimental films that

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Speaker 1: have a lot of things like close ups of liquids

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Speaker 1: being pressed between pains and glasts and stuff. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. So you're you're left wondering, is this

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Speaker 1: is this the gateway that were as we're seeing it,

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Speaker 1: Is this just like the the crazy um psychedelic experience

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Speaker 1: that is that is happening to Bowman as he's kind

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Speaker 1: of like squeeze through the fabric of reality and you know,

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Speaker 1: with space and time warping all around him. Is this

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Speaker 1: essentially Stephen King's the jaunt is because he looks like

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Speaker 1: he's jaunting and some of those skills that we see, Yes,

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Speaker 1: so like his visions seem to be or cut with

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Speaker 1: these stills of his face being blurred and warped and

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Speaker 1: like he's losing his mind. And then Bowman finally ends

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Speaker 1: up in a strange room that has like a glowing

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Speaker 1: floor and neo classical furniture and decorations, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have argued over what this scene means, but

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Speaker 1: he essentially sees himself other versions of himself and then

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Speaker 1: becomes them as an older and older version of himself.

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Speaker 1: It seems to sort of suggest that many years passed

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Speaker 1: with him living in this room, but it's not exactly clear.

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Speaker 1: And then finally he's laying in bed, apparently near death,

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Speaker 1: and another monolith stands at the foot of his bed,

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Speaker 1: and he appears transformed into some kind of glowing newborn

379
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Speaker 1: baby with these creepy adult eyes. Adult eyes on a

380
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Speaker 1: baby is just the most horrifying side, but it's this

381
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Speaker 1: new form of humanity shown. And then he has finally

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Speaker 1: shown hovering back over Earth, and a lot of people

383
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Speaker 1: have argued, what does this mean? Has he come back

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Speaker 1: to Earth to what has he been transfer warmed? Is

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Speaker 1: he back here to share some kind of knowledge with us?

386
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Speaker 1: Is he back here to do something to observe us

387
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 1: to destroy Earth. Yeah, or indeed, I mean it's also

388
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Speaker 1: up a new interpretation. Really, like, how literally should I

389
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Speaker 1: take this is? I mean, how much of the later

390
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Speaker 1: portions of the film are just purely uh, you know, metaphoric.

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Speaker 1: Am I supposed to really think about him becoming a

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Speaker 1: giant star child and orbiting the planet um? And certainly

393
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Speaker 1: there's a lot of evidence of support that you are.

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Speaker 1: But then on the other hand, I always feel like

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Speaker 1: any kind interpretation is always an equal opportunity game. I

396
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Speaker 1: feel like you can equally say, well, this is this

397
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Speaker 1: is all happening within the head of Bowman, or this

398
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Speaker 1: is just kind of this is kind of pointing the

399
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Speaker 1: direction for the future evolution of of human civilization now

400
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Speaker 1: that they have essentially made contact with this higher power.

401
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Speaker 1: One of the things I love about two thousand one

402
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Speaker 1: is that I think it is a movie that is

403
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Speaker 1: deliberately made to have extremely uh compeling symbolic significance, but

404
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: symbolic in the in the original true sense of the

405
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,959
Speaker 1: word symbolic, meaning something that is not just a sign

406
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: pointing to one correct interpretation, but an intentional and valid

407
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 1: way accused to lots of different themes like that there

408
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: are there are many I think legitimate differend interpretations of

409
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Speaker 1: two thousand one. Yeah, Like when I watch it now,

410
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Speaker 1: I definitely get a sense of like he becomes a

411
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Speaker 1: baby at the end, so as an adult and as

412
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Speaker 1: an adult with with a child, it's like, I see

413
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Speaker 1: this is a new beginning, like this is all you know,

414
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Speaker 1: a new possibility for Bowman and or the human race.

415
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Speaker 1: But when I think, I do remember watching it as

416
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Speaker 1: a child, and that last section of the film was

417
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Speaker 1: like just you know, super confusing as one would imagine.

418
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Speaker 1: It was just dreamlike but also hypnotic. Like I said,

419
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Speaker 1: but when he becomes a baby, watching it as a child,

420
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Speaker 1: I was kind of like, oh, he's he's dead. You know,

421
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 1: this is this is a reduction. You know, It's like

422
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Speaker 1: he was this a capable, an up astronaut hero dude,

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Speaker 1: and now he's a star baby. We've taught a horrible thing.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about that before, like why is it that

425
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Speaker 1: when you're a child, the greatest insult is to call

426
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Speaker 1: something a baby. You know, like that that seems like

427
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 1: a really horrible thing when you're a kid. But now,

428
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Speaker 1: of course there's adults you'd like, no, wait, I want

429
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: another life. Yeah, let me go back. Yeah. And plus

430
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 1: you know he's in he's orbiting in space, and and uh,

431
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: and the some of the the sequel material and the

432
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: literary material accompting a demonstrate he has powers beyond, well

433
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: beyond that of a normal child. But but that's outside

434
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: of the movie itself, and we're largely just talking about

435
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: the film. There is one thing that has always stood

436
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: out to me about the movie in a way that

437
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: makes it almost completely unique among stories I can think of,

438
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: and that is that the human characters are dull. I

439
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: mean dull, and it's great anyway. In fact, I think

440
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: it's great because they're dull. And let me try to

441
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 1: explain what I mean. Uh, No human character really says

442
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: almost anything of interest in the movie. Most of the

443
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: movie is without dialogue, and when the characters do talk,

444
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 1: almost everything they say is banal. And so I want

445
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: to say something about the movie that I would scoff

446
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: at in pretty much any other context. And so I

447
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: think the characters are boring on purpose, and it works

448
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: now normally, if a movie had boring characters and somebody

449
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: who liked the movie tried to defend it by saying, oh,

450
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: but it's that way on purpose. I'd be like, oh, okay,

451
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, if you've been in a

452
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: creative writing class, you've heard that kind of excuse. Somebody's like,

453
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: your story doesn't make any sense, right, it's not supposed

454
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: to make any sense. It's like, well, congratulations, good job.

455
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: I mean, most of the time that's just excuse making

456
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: for a failure of somebody to, you know, create something

457
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: in a compelling way. Um, but two thousand one is

458
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 1: a big exception. I think the human characters are boring.

459
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: I think it's that way on purpose because judging from

460
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: kuber sothern movies, we know he could create characters that

461
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,479
Speaker 1: were interesting, and somehow the movie is better because they're boring.

462
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: It makes us feel the movie's themes in an even

463
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: more powerful way. And I think the reason is that

464
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,479
Speaker 1: this is a movie where the individual characters are not

465
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: the protagonists. The protagonist is somehow the meta organism of

466
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: the evolving intelligence of the human species. Uh. It's like

467
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: the abstract entity of human civilization and human potential. And

468
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell a story like that and make

469
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: it interesting without sort of anchoring it within some character

470
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: who symbolizes everything you're talking about. But Clarke and Kubrick,

471
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: I think did it here, Like in the face of

472
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: the cosmos, each individual human is vanishingly insignificant and banal,

473
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: but the potential of an intelligent civilization is vast and unimaginable.

474
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: That's a good read. I like that. Um. Yeah, these

475
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: these cars, so they're they're sort of two levels to

476
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: my interpretation on it. On one, I can't help but

477
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: look at it now and certainly as a night as

478
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: a film from the nineteen sixties, and this is uh,

479
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: this is a predominantly white male movie. Uh. These are

480
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: some waspy characters and and they are they are dull

481
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: to your point. So it's it's interesting to watch it

482
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: and kind of tear that apart because on one level

483
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh, well, this this just speaking to the

484
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: zeitgeist at the time. And then how much of it

485
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: is this intentional process? Uh? And and I do agree

486
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: with you, I think it is intentional. We have those scenes, um,

487
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: where the crew members are interacting with How, and How

488
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,959
Speaker 1: is so much more interesting than He's the more human character,

489
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: Like I know How far more than I know Bowman. Um. Likewise,

490
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: I know a moon gazer more than I know most

491
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: of the characters in the film that we we see

492
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: that that ape in particular like struggling through stuff, figuring

493
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: stuff out, and you get arguably you get more of

494
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: a sense of of of his values as opposed to

495
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: the values of Bowman. A moon Gazer is definitely a

496
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: more interesting character than Heywood Floyd. Um. I want to

497
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: say one more thing about the just the pace of

498
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 1: the film, and uh, this film is it is a

499
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: rarity compared to so many other films because it does

500
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: have this lethargic Well, I wouldn't say lethargic. I would

501
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: say quo ludic of pace where everything is is hypnotic

502
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: and chill, but also just really drawn out or at

503
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: least as far as my movie going experience goes. I

504
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: I don't do not become impatient with it. Um. But

505
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: it's it's having those spaces, having room to breathe in

506
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: the film that allows you to think more about what's

507
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: going on, to contemplate the symbols. And I think there

508
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: is also something to be said for the spaces that

509
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: are afforded by the absence of you know, a bunch

510
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: of of of arguably unnecessary conversation among the characters, or

511
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: character development or emotional read sentence with these characters. By

512
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: by keeping them so slim and kind of abstract, I'm

513
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: forced to think more about them like this is I

514
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: think one of the reasons that I'm so drawn to

515
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: terrible science fiction films as well are just bad or

516
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,719
Speaker 1: mediocre ones, because in those films, you know, they may

517
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: have the same frenzied pace of any other action movie.

518
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: They might, you know, and they might not even have

519
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: that much intelligent content to them, but the spaces are

520
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: there in the quality of the film. Uh, And I'm

521
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: for and you know, they don't give me enough to

522
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: play with as far as characters go or plot. But

523
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm but I can set there and just think about

524
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: something interesting on the set. I So you and I've

525
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: had this conversation before, and it's definitely true that this

526
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: is part of what draws me to bad movies as well.

527
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: For some reason, I find a lot of bad movies

528
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: thought provoking in the way that a lot of competent

529
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: movies are not. Because a competent movie will get you

530
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: sucked into the plot more than a bad movie will.

531
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: And when you're sucked into a plot, there are a

532
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: lot of leisures in that as well. Like I enjoy

533
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: being sucked into the plot of a movie. It it

534
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: gets you into that flow state. You sort of like

535
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: forget yourself and you just become awareness of this other narrative.

536
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: That's all great and great fun, but there's a different

537
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: kind of great fun and stimulation to be had and

538
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: the way you watch a story or a movie that

539
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 1: does not arrest you in constant plot developments and and

540
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: the character's emotions, and two thousand one does that in

541
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: a in a very different way than a bad movie does.

542
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: Two thousand one is a movie full of breathing room.

543
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: Like you're saying it. It's constantly allowing you to think

544
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: about what you're seeing rather than just being pulled along

545
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: by it. The late Roger Ebert has an essay about

546
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: two thousand one from his Great Film Series where he

547
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: talks about the the appeal of the movie and one

548
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: of the things he says, I just wanted to quote.

549
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: He says, quote, Only a few films are transcendent and

550
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: work upon our minds and imaginations, like music or prayer

551
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: or a vast belittling landscape. Most movies are about charac

552
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: or with a goal in mind who obtained it after difficulties,

553
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: either comic or dramatic. Two thousand one of Space Odyssey

554
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: is not about a goal, but about a quest, a need.

555
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: It does not hook its effects on specific plot points,

556
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: nor does it ask us to identify with Dave Bowman

557
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: or any other character. It says to us, we became

558
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: men when we learned to think. Our minds have given

559
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: us the tools to understand what we live and who

560
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: we are. Now it is time to move on to

561
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: the next step, to know that we live not on

562
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: a planet but among the stars, and that we are

563
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: not flesh but intelligence. Oh that's good. I think that

564
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: says a lot of what I feel about the movie. Yeah,

565
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: this is one of those cases where I definitely agree

566
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,479
Speaker 1: with Ebert. I find that I either completely agree with

567
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: what he said had to say about a film where

568
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: I strongly disagree. Oh yeah, well, I mean, the best

569
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: kind of critic is the critic who you like reading

570
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: even when you fully disagree. Absolutely. All right, Well, on

571
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: that note, we're going to take a break, and when

572
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: we come back, we're going to talk some more about

573
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: two thousand and one of Space Odyssey, about how it

574
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: came to be and many of the fabulous sci fi

575
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: but thoroughly stuff to blow your mind ideas that are

576
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: utilized in the film Thank You, Thank Alright, We're back.

577
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: So Supposedly, two thousand one of Space Odyssey was developed

578
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: by Kubrick and Arthur C. Clark on the basis of

579
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: an idea from an earlier story by Clark, Right, yeah,

580
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: a story known as The Sentinel, also known as The

581
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: Sentinel of Eternity. Uh. This was published in nineteen fifty one,

582
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 1: and basically it's a story about an alien artifact in

583
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: the form of a mineral pyramid buried on the Moon,

584
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: and Clark has apparently complained that the story contains so

585
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: little of what's in two thousand one that it really

586
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: shouldn't be said that two thousand one is based on it.

587
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I mean, it seems like it's there.

588
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: There's a monolith on the Moon. It might not be

589
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: shaped the same way, but that's already a compelling idea. Right.

590
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: We go to the Moon and we find something they're

591
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: waiting for us. Though there's an interesting all alternate tay

592
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: on what the function of that object on the Moon

593
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: could be. There's the idea that what if aliens left

594
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: behind some kind of technological intelligence detector alarm that recognizes

595
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: a certain point of technological development in the human species

596
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: and then sends a signal back home saying like, oh, now,

597
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: watch out, these guys are coming. Well that yeah, it's

598
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: kind of a yeah, cosmic security alarm. Yeah, I've also

599
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: read that there there's at least one earlier Clark's story

600
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: that closely resembles the Dawn of Man segment. And one

601
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind here is, of course, that

602
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: the Clark was a was a prolific writer. He wrote

603
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: a number of sci fi stories. By the time two

604
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: thousand and one came into production, he had established himself

605
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: as a major sci fi writer and also experienced success

606
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: as a science writer, often dealing with topics related to

607
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: futurism computer space travel. Uh So he he already had

608
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: a career in which he had gotten to explore so

609
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: many of these concepts, So it makes sense that two

610
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: thousand one would be a further refinement of those ideas. Yeah,

611
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: and Clark was known as a as a writer of

612
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: what it might be a silly word, but what's often

613
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: known as hard science fiction, not not like space pirates

614
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: and uh, space fantasy, but science fiction that's based on

615
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: some reasonable appreciation of the laws of nature. And uh.

616
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: There is a novel, two thousand and one, but it's

617
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: worth noting that he wrote it concurrently with the film,

618
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: so the film is not based upon two thousand and

619
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: one of Space Oudsy the book, but they both emerge

620
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: from the same process, and the book is worth checking out.

621
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: I especially enjoyed the Dawn of Man portion of the

622
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: book because you do get to spend more time with

623
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: those apes and they have names. They have names, yeah,

624
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: such as moon Gazer. Yeah. Now, of course, Stanley Kubrick

625
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: was well established as a respected filmmaker by the time

626
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: he made two thousand one. Right, His previous film, uh,

627
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: you know, prior to this was Dr Strange Love from

628
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: sixty four. He directed the excellent Spartacus in nineteen sixty

629
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: seven Paths of Glory, but nothing, nothing prior to two

630
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: thousand one. I would say, really, you know, points towards

631
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: this as like the next logical evolution of Kubrick's uh

632
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: uh filmography. I mean, Kubrick experts may discrew with me

633
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: on that there, and maybe you can you can you

634
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: can point to examples to that but for the most part,

635
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: like this is this is suddenly a sci fi epic,

636
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: a space epic. Uh, from someone who has not really

637
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: dipped their toes in any kind of genre material previously. Well,

638
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it makes sense that his career

639
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: would take a turn like this at this time. This

640
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: is nineteen sixty eight. I mean this, this is a

641
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: year of change for the modern world. It's often recognized

642
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 1: as this, this pivotal turning point where you know, modernity

643
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: becomes whatever the world is now that there's some kind

644
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: of upheaval, changing of culture, chang aging of values, a

645
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: rebellion against the old ways. And and two thousand one

646
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: is definitely that in terms of many aspects of filmmaking. Yeah, yeah,

647
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: it's I mean, it's almost as if in sixty eight

648
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: a crazy space break came and we all touched it, right. Yeah. Now,

649
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: of course we we know from Kubrick's later films, you

650
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: know he would he would definitely explore more, you know,

651
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: genre territory, weirder territory with works like seventy ones a Clockwork,

652
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: Orange nineteen eighties, The Shining Um. But but those are

653
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: still far more narrative and traditional films compared with two

654
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: thousand one. Two thousand one stands out even in a

655
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: filmography such as Kubricks. And of course we also have

656
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: to recognize Doulas Douglas Trumbull, who I mentioned earlier, the

657
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: visual effects wizard, largely responsible for the many amazing lasting

658
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: effects in the film. He also went on to work

659
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: on Blade Runner, another great looking movie. Yeah, um star

660
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: Trek the motion picture. And also he was at least

661
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: in an advisory capacity on a Tree of Life. I

662
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: never saw it yet, Oh it's good. Yeah, uh and uh.

663
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: And of course, as I mentioned, he directed one of

664
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: my favorite sci fi films of the era, nineteen seventy

665
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: two Silent Running starring Bruce Dern. I don't know if

666
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: I've asked this before, but which came first, Silent Running

667
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: or the low As. Oh, well, let's see, Laura is

668
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: one in influence on the other. Well, I'm not sure enough. Han,

669
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: I'd have to ask you to look up when when

670
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: the Laura emerged from his stump. The Lax was published

671
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one, one year before Silent Running. Maybe

672
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: they kind of emerged from the same stump. I mean

673
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: they're both emerging from. Again, we we have to, like

674
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: you pointed out in sixty eight, we have to think

675
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: about this, uh, the various changes that were occurring there,

676
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: the various revolutions that were occurring in uh in in

677
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: the in the zeitgeist, in the way people were in

678
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: interacting with their world, and certainly the environmental movement was

679
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: one of those. Uh. And both the low ax and

680
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: the silent running, you know, echo those sentiments. Well, Robert,

681
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: are you ready to drill down and focus on some

682
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: individual elements of the movie. Let's do it. So we

683
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: wanted to just look at some aspects of different parts

684
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: of the film, ideas explored there. What's interesting or what's

685
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: scientifically accurate, what's not um And so I guess it

686
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: would make sense to first start with the Dawn of

687
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: Man segment, the the segment with the ape like creatures

688
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: that are exposed to the monolith and somehow learned to

689
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: use tools, which are, by the way, some of the

690
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: best looking ape suits you will find in any motion picture.

691
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: I mean, Hollywood history is replete with ape suits great,

692
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: great and small, and and good and bad. And man,

693
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: I love a bad ape suit like I love the

694
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: movie Robot Monster or the aliens that invade Earth or

695
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: like it's a guerrilla suit with a fish bowl on

696
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: the head. But but yeah, these are some good suits,

697
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: good suits and great performances to you had a very

698
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: physical mime performances that brought these to life based on

699
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: the movements of actual primates. And then of course we

700
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: have actual primates and scenes as well, because you have

701
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: actual chimp uh, like young chimps standing in as the

702
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: young members of this tribe. And the Gord thing is,

703
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily even think about it when you're watching it,

704
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: Like everything works so well in that scene, you're not thinking, oh,

705
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: we have people in ape costumes and actual apes. That's

706
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: a good point. So I was wondering, you know, is

707
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 1: there any way of looking at this and saying how

708
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: how realistic is this? I mean, obviously we don't know

709
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: everything about our ancestors from this period, and that that

710
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: part of the movie does not say exactly how long

711
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: ago it is, though in the middle part Heywood Floyd

712
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: says that the monolith on the Moon is four million

713
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: years old, so if they're all roughly the same age

714
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: they were put there at the same time, that might

715
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: put this scene on Earth around four million years ago.

716
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: So I was wondering what were our ancestors like then?

717
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: And supposedly the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees

718
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: lived sometime between about ten and about four million years ago,

719
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: and the hominids depicted in this scene appeared to be

720
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: would you say, semi bipedle like, not standing upright, but

721
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: often perched in a crouch on two legs and uh

722
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: able to stand up, but often sort of hunkered near

723
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah, I would definitely say that. But then,

724
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: of course, when the one hominid gains the use of

725
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: a bone tool, this one finally begins to stand upright

726
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: in a full fighting posture. And as best I can tell,

727
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: there's still vigorous debate in the scientific community about the

728
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: origins of human bipedalism. This is not a settled question.

729
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: Used to be commonly assumed that human ancestors began to

730
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: walk upright on two legs when they moved down from

731
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 1: the trees, down from an arboreal environment onto the grasslands

732
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: and the savannah, and so they stood up, you know,

733
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: The classic explanation was stood up to see over the grass,

734
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 1: but for whatever reason, down on the savannah, that that's

735
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: when we started going by petal, and this was still

736
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: a dominant explanation in the nineteen sixties when two thousand

737
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: one was made. But this idea, I think is has

738
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: largely fallen out of favor in the past couple of

739
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: decades for several reasons, one of which is evidence that

740
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: seems to show that humans were still primary tree dwellers,

741
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: or at least highly adapted to climbing and living in

742
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: trees after they became bipedal. So that's a strange kind

743
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: of upset of the picture a lot of people have

744
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 1: of human evolution, But there's evidence, say from from ancient

745
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: hominid skeletons like Australi epithesnes, that at the same time

746
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: our legs seem to show that we had upright posture,

747
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: we also still had shoulder blades and hands adapted for

748
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 1: living in a tree environment. So the picture of this

749
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: movie paints was probably more uh was more a feature

750
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: of the dominant theories of the time, and wouldn't be

751
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: quite so accurate today. But the picture it paints of

752
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: the the origin of tool use, I think has always

753
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: been a really fascinating thing. Earlier, I mentioned that essay

754
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: by Roger Ebert about the movie in his great movie

755
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: series and And he says this. Also, he says, quote

756
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: in the in the first movement of the film, quote,

757
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: prehistoric apes confronted by a mysterious black monolith, teach themselves

758
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: that bones can be used as weapons and thus discover

759
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: the first tools. I have always el that the smooth

760
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: artificial surfaces and right angles of the monolith, which was

761
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: obviously made by intelligent beings, triggered the realization in the

762
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: ape brain that intelligence could be used to shape the

763
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: objects of the world. I think that is fascinating because

764
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: so he's saying that it's not necessarily even something magic

765
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: about the monolith, you know, that it did something physical

766
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: to their brains maybe, but that it literally could have

767
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: just been a form, like a form that they observed

768
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: that they had never seen before, and by simply seeing

769
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: this form it triggered something in them, just kind of

770
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: like mere inspiration to say, oh, shapes like that are possible. Yeah,

771
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 1: and I wonder, I mean, I do wonder if something

772
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: like that is but not so much that aliens put

773
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: a thing on the earth. But I mean you always

774
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: have to wonder about those moments, like we don't know

775
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: the answer of what triggered the evolution of hominid intelligence

776
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: millions of years ago, which eventually led to language and

777
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: tool use in human civilization and all that. But one

778
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: is tempted to imagine individual on the ground scenarios like, obviously,

779
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: we've got an intellectual capacity to make and use tools,

780
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: but to some extent there had to be moments of

781
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: proto cultural and technological transition, right, a moment when an

782
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: ancient Homini had suddenly understood that an inanimate object like

783
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: a stick or a bone could be used as a

784
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: tool to do something, or could be used in a

785
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 1: different way than it had been used before. And it's

786
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: just amazing to wonder what did that moment look like?

787
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: What did she see or hear or feel that allowed

788
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: that jump across the chasm of how an object can

789
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: be manipulated and used. Yeah, and indeed it was probably

790
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: not so cinematic, right, you know. I it's easy to imagine, uh,

791
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: you know, an individual making a discovery like that and

792
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: then either not utilizing it, uh and treating it as

793
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: a curio or dying before they can pass it on.

794
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: And then someone else, another individual has to make the

795
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: same discovery years later, and maybe that one picks up.

796
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,919
Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't um, but certainly it works. I feel

797
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: like that the scene itself in the film works as

798
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: a great illustration of this overall movement. I almost feel

799
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: like this is something that, you know, I want evolutionary

800
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: anthropologists to to think about, like, is is there a

801
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: site that could have been seen somehow away, a way

802
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: of mimicking something seen in the environment that could produce

803
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: the inspiration for tool use. But we'll have to we

804
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,959
Speaker 1: have to maybe look into this because two use among

805
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: animals is always a fascinating topic and it's something we

806
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: continue to learn more and more about, particularly thinking about

807
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: the I believe they're largely German experiments taking place with

808
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: with the tool using birds and observing how into what

809
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: degree they'll use h you know, sticks on various tasks. Oh,

810
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 1: we've done We've done whole episodes on bird intelligence, and yeah,

811
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: there's extensive tool used by birds. Crows and corvids show

812
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: really startling kinds of tool use, you know, on the

813
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: level of what you'd you'd expect to see from an ape, right, yeah,

814
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: so yeah, what what did it look like though? The

815
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 1: first the first crow to to actually pick up a

816
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: twig and use it as a tool. What might that

817
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: have looked like if we've had kind of a like

818
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: a god's eye view of the whole process. All right,

819
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: let's throw this bone in the into the air, Joe

820
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: and move on to the age of space travel. You know,

821
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 1: one of the best things I think about the technological

822
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: accuracy of the movie is that they don't have magical

823
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: gravity plating on the floors. And this was standard in

824
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: the science fiction of the time, that you know, you'd

825
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: have a spaceship and people just walk around in it

826
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: because why not. Oh, and it's and it's largely standard afterwards,

827
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: like you find some pretty you'll you'll find some some

828
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: sci fi that it's pretty serious about its science. But

829
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: when it comes to gravity on the ship, they just

830
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: they just go ahead and just assume there's magic gravity.

831
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,959
Speaker 1: It's like, ultimately easier to just go ahead and chalk

832
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: that one up to magic so we can talk about

833
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: other things, um it. I Mean, it's one of the

834
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: reasons that I really like the Expanse the television series

835
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 1: book series as well. And they don't cheat, they don't

836
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: cheat on the gravity. I mean, there may be some

837
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: case to be made for some level of cheating, but

838
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: for the most part they take the gravity seriously and

839
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: it's a part of the plotting as well. Yeah, and

840
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: so all of the artificial gravity in two thousand one

841
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: of Space Odyssey is created by real forces by by

842
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: rotating force. So, just like we've talked about in our

843
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: artificial gravity episode, you've got a space station that's a

844
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: rotating wheel. This uses the angular momentum of the rotation

845
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: to create a downward pressure on the floor inside the

846
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: wheel where people can walk around. Uh. And even in

847
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: the spaceship in the Discovery One, there's like a big

848
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: spherical kind of command area that has a segment of

849
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: it with artificial gravity in it. Uh. That's create added

850
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: by rotating a sort of ring around the middle. Now,

851
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: I have read some analysis that says one problem with

852
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: the Discovery one artificial gravity is that, given what we're

853
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 1: looking at in the movie, it is not big enough

854
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: and would have to spin too fast to create a

855
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: realistic artificial gravity environment because there would be excess Coriolis forces. Yeah.

856
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: I believe we went into this a little bit on

857
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: our artificial gravity episode. Yeah, yeah, you would. You would

858
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: probably need a bigger wheel. Yeah, you probably would. So

859
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: the brief refresher. The Coriolis forces is basically just uh,

860
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: strange counterintuitive movements that happen when you're within a rotating

861
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: frame of reference. So if you imagine uh, people sitting

862
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: on a merry go round like horses going around, and

863
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: one of them tries to throw a ball to the other,

864
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: one is not going to be so easy, right, because

865
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: it's rotating. It's not moving in a straight line. So

866
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: you try to throw a ball to somebody, and you

867
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: are maybe throwing the ball to where they would be

868
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: if they were moving in a straight line, but they're rotating,

869
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: so the ball appears a curve off path. It doesn't

870
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: seem to make any sense. Before we move on, I

871
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: should also point out the other big obvious um aspect

872
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: of the presentation of space travel in this uh, in

873
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: this movie, and that is that there is there is

874
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: no sound in space. And they adhere to this in

875
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: a way that virtually no other film does, like even

876
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: pretty smart film, even films and properties that will go

877
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: ahead and try and be realistic with gravity. They're like, Nope,

878
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: if we're having a space battle, nobody's gonna watch it

879
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: unless they're explosion noises, right, uh, And but there there

880
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: are noises for the astronauts, but they're internal noises. That's fantastic.

881
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: Like when the astronauts go out for e v A,

882
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: there is this almost deafening hiss of life support systems

883
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: within their suits. And I was reading a little bit

884
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: about what astronauts do actually here when they're on their spacewalks. Uh,

885
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: and apparently, yeah, they mainly hear their own life support systems.

886
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: They hear like pumping and fans and stuff like that

887
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: within their suits. But it's kind of creepy to imagine

888
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: because imagine trying to do mechanical work with tools when

889
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: you can't hear anything you're doing. Yeah, it's it's a

890
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: it's it's a different reality than we're used to dealing with.

891
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: You Normally, you should be able to to hear your tools,

892
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: and even if you're not, you're not consciously thinking about it.

893
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: It's part of your your your sensory experience of the

894
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: of of of the activity. Yeah, I mean, I imagine

895
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: to be deeply unsettling to go and loosen a bolt

896
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: and I just hear nothing. It's completely silent. But they

897
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: have to. Astronauts on spacewalks have to do things like that.

898
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: That's why you gotta have those explosive bolts joke, because

899
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: just push the button and you're done. No, no sitting

900
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: there cranking them around. Oh there's some good explosive bolts

901
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 1: in the movie too. Uh. And there was one part

902
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: where I thought I caught a mistake in the movie.

903
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 1: I thought I caught a gravity mistake where there's a

904
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: scene where they're flying in a moon shuttle to a

905
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: thing on the surface of the Moon. And we just

906
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: did an episode about coffee and space. Heywood Floyd and

907
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: his buddies. They're pouring out a caraff of coffee to

908
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: pour coffee into cups, and I was like, hey, that

909
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't work. But then I realized, oh, wait a minute. Now,

910
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: this shuttle is presumably not actually in a zero G environment.

911
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: It's flying over the surface of the moon, right, so

912
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: it would be something more like imagining being in an airplane.

913
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: But then again I thought. I came back on that

914
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,919
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, but an airplane wouldn't work

915
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: on the Moon because airplanes have to generate lift by

916
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: creating a differential flow of air under the wings, you know,

917
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: so you can generate forward thrust and then there's a

918
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: differential pressure of of flow of air above the wing

919
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: and below the wing, or the aerofoil, whatever it is,

920
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: and then that lifts the plane up on the moon

921
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: where there's no atmosphere. You couldn't do that, So how

922
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: would you even have air travel on the moon. Well,

923
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 1: as far as the coffee aspect of this problem goes,

924
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: they do. Uh. The cooper does make the fabulous choice

925
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: of simply cutting away before we see coffee actually poured,

926
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: so we we end up having a lengthy discussions later

927
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 1: on about how that coffee might have worked, but the

928
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,359
Speaker 1: magician doesn't reveal his trick. Well, but there's a huge

929
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: amount of attention paid in general in the movie too,

930
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: allowing life to continue in microgravity or zero gravity environment. Food,

931
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: for instance, either being sucked through the straw or scraped

932
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: off of that trade that wonderfully appetizing green paste. It

933
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: looks like like the worst possible store bought guacamole. You

934
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: get a thing like the not the cool kind of

935
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: guacamole we can get now, the kind of store bought

936
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: guacamole that you could only either you've got in like

937
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: that the nineties, I would say all the food now

938
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: you're talking about the scene on the Discovery one, but

939
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: that's in a simulated gravity environment, right, but it's still disgusting.

940
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: It is disgusting. Yeah, they it looks like to me,

941
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: it looks like what they're eating is different colored versions

942
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: of the I don't know whatever that stuff is on

943
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: the top of a lemon bar, you know what I'm

944
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: talking about, Like that just kind of gelatinous consistency stuff.

945
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: It just kind of scraping it off with that with

946
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: the device. It kind of looks like the thing that

947
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: the Romans used to scrape their skin in the bat

948
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: in the baths, except I guess it's you know, this

949
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: is like corn beef flavored lemon bar. But yeah, so

950
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: so you've got the space travel scenes in in the

951
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: zero G space shuttles in the middle section of the

952
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: movie where they're eating and drinking out of like corn cartons.

953
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 1: I guess liquid corn liquid carrot seems kind of gross.

954
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 1: The the flight attendants have these grip shoes that allow

955
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: them to walk around by gripping the floor. I guess

956
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: it's some kind of velcro like thing. Yeah, you might

957
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: have missed it in the film because they only spend

958
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: like a half hour establishing this technology. But I say

959
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 1: that it's not a not a not a second of

960
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: it's boring, but they do firmly establish how they're walking around.

961
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: An amazing comic relief moment is the moment where Haywood

962
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: Floyd is on the flight. I think he's just been

963
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: sucking up some some corn carton, you know, like a

964
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: corn through a straw, and then the next thing we

965
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: see is him staring at the instructions for zero gravity toilet.

966
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: It says like passengers are advised to read instructions before use.

967
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: And then there's this massive call him of text. He's

968
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: like biting his knuckle. But that does also play on

969
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: on some real space issues, like you've talked about before

970
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: with the the emergencies of of bladder control in zero gravity.

971
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: Oh certainly, yeah, that how how the bladder doesn't fill

972
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: up from top to bottom but from all sides in

973
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 1: and then suddenly it's the last second and you've got

974
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: to go potty. Um. Yeah. A tremendous amount of research

975
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: and development has gone into creating a better bathroom experience

976
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: in space, and for for a great reason. I mean,

977
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: this is a basic aspect of how the human body works.

978
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: And when you absolutely need to maintain hygienic control off

979
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 1: in a microgravity environment. Do you know how the early

980
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: space command design did not take that into account, Like

981
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 1: in his first orbital flight, Alan Shephard, Well, actually I

982
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: think not. While he was in flight, I believe is

983
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: before liftoff he had to he had to pee in

984
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: his space suit, and he was They did not give

985
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 1: him any anything to deal with this. They just figured,

986
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: you of, the flight would be so short that he

987
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: could hold it. But then there were launch delays and

988
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 1: so he's there in his suit for hours and hours

989
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: and he's got a pee. So he just went and

990
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: it shorted out some of his sensors and equipment. It's

991
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: kind of an embarrassing story that they were like, Oh,

992
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 1: we don't need to worry about that. Isn't this scene

993
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: presented in the right stuff the motion picture? I don't

994
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: it is okay, unless that's a false memory. I seem

995
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: to recall this this scene taking place. Well, if it does,

996
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: apparently that's a true story. But but more about the

997
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: way the movie deals with space travel, space communication, all

998
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: that beyond just the toilets. Uh So, one thing that

999
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: it does correctly acknowledges the the time delay between signals

1000
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 1: received and transmitted between say a ship en route to

1001
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: Jupiter and the Earth. Like there's a part where the

1002
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: astronauts on the Discovery one going to Jupiter they do

1003
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: an interview with the BBC and the BBC guys like

1004
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: we had to edit out the seven minute delays between

1005
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: questions and answers. But also once they actually do the interview,

1006
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: it when you're thinking about that, it seems kind of like,

1007
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: what because there are parts where the interviewer asks such

1008
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 1: dumb questions. If you're not going to get an answer

1009
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: for seven minutes, it seems like he should have been

1010
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 1: more concise. Yeah, you think you would think so. Now,

1011
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: one thing the movie demonstrates that that I think we

1012
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: have not yet figured out from a scientific perspective is

1013
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: the idea of hibernation. Human hibernation on board spacecraft. So

1014
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: on the Discovery one, you've got two astronauts who are

1015
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: awake and sort of minding the store, and then you've

1016
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: got a whole other crew of astronauts who are in

1017
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: hibernation and it's sarcophagus looking devices that it's very creepy. Yeah,

1018
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 1: And like some of the like I think I can't

1019
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: remember if it's Pool or Bowman, but one of them

1020
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: is drawing them while they're in hybernation, and how is

1021
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: is commenting as it looks very good days. I've really

1022
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: been working on your your skill. That's great. But they

1023
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: say the hibernation is like sleep. They breathe once a minute,

1024
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: the heart beats three times a minute, and body temperature

1025
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: is three degrees in integrade. And as far as I

1026
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: know that, they don't explain in the movie really how

1027
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 1: this works. And as far as I know, this is

1028
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: not possible, right, I mean, certainly hibernation continues to be

1029
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,280
Speaker 1: of key interest to researchers for a number of reasons.

1030
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: Should have said not possible yet, right, yes, but but

1031
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons that we keep looking at

1032
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 1: hibernation hibernation in actual organisms because I mean, there are

1033
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 1: a number of different health potential health benefits there, but

1034
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,959
Speaker 1: also the ability to use this for long term space

1035
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: travel is is very attractive. Now. The explanation in two

1036
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: thousand one is that it's not so much of a

1037
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: stasis situation, so they're not traveling between stars or anything,

1038
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,439
Speaker 1: but rather it's about raining in consumption of air, water,

1039
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: and food for the travel portion of the mission. So yeah,

1040
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: you don't need the doctor until you get there, or

1041
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: you know, an astrophysicists or whatever the specialists are. You

1042
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: don't need them on the way, So why feed them

1043
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 1: and water them and give them uh, you know, fine

1044
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 1: night portions of the atmosphere rations until you get there,

1045
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: right right, And hibernation would seem to be the biological

1046
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: process to look to here, because I mean it's uh,

1047
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: we've seen examples of in true hibernators of greatly decreased

1048
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: metabolic activity, ability to withstand extreme cold and uh, and

1049
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 1: resistance to muscle atrophy while they're under uh. That's that's

1050
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: one of the amazing things about like uh, any hybernating species.

1051
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: But if you're gonna look at something even it's like

1052
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: a hibernation light arguably like like various bears, the fact

1053
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: that they can essentially be a mobile for such a

1054
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: long period of time and get out and all their

1055
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: muscles still work. You know, it's it's it's amazing. Well,

1056
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: the human perspective, muscle atrophy is a problem even from

1057
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: the point of view of active astronauts and unproduced gravity.

1058
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're on the space station. You've got

1059
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: to exercise vigorously, uh, to try to maintain some of

1060
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: your your bone density and muscle strength, because what you

1061
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 1: don't have a floor to push against. Yeah. Now, one

1062
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,720
Speaker 1: thing I sort of take is you with and again

1063
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: this I'm I'm not nick nitpicking here too much, but

1064
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 1: it said that the hibernation is like sleep. But I've

1065
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: read accounts that sleep, the sleep like aspects here might

1066
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: not match up with with reality all that much. I've

1067
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: seen the hibernation of Arctic ground squirrels compared to a

1068
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: kind of awful insomnia where the where the creatures actually

1069
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: have to extend a fair amount of energy to heat

1070
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: back up so that they can sleep. That sleep is

1071
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: perhaps something that is um, it's not possible why you're

1072
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: truly hibernating, which which which is fascinating to think about.

1073
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: So it also does remind me of of another science

1074
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: fiction work of Orson, Scott card is Um. He had

1075
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: an older novel titled Hot Sleep, and the idea here

1076
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: was that that suspended animation was kind of like an

1077
00:57:54,760 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: awful boiling insomnia. It was that one experienced while they

1078
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: were in transit to another place. That sounds bad. But

1079
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: I always think of that when I read about this

1080
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: idea that hibernation is not sleep, It maybe more like

1081
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: hot sleep. Now we're back to the jaunt. Yes, yeah, there, Uh,

1082
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: that's another one. I feel like Stephen King's The John

1083
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 1: might not have been possible without two thousand and one. Yeah,

1084
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: I wonder. But well, speaking of sleep, there's another thing

1085
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: that I thought was worth mentioning maybe is there's a

1086
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: scene on the Discovery one where it appears that the

1087
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: astronaut Frank pool Is. I could be mistaking what's going

1088
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: on in the scene, but he appears to be doing

1089
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 1: some kind of light bathing, like he's in his underwear

1090
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: and he's laying on a slab under a bunch of

1091
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: lights um And you know, I wondered, is that supposed

1092
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: to be what's going on there? And it would make

1093
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: sense because light regimes matter to astronauts. What kind of

1094
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,439
Speaker 1: light you're exposed to does have an effect on your body,

1095
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: on your Cicadian rhythms, on everything. I mean, I've read

1096
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 1: about reports of astronauts sometimes having trouble both sleeping on

1097
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: space stations and the different kinds of light and exposure

1098
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: to different kinds of light at different times could help

1099
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: alleviate that problem. Like, if you're exposed to a fluorescent

1100
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: light that's putting out blue frequencies, this could lead to

1101
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: trouble getting to sleep, and you might need to turn

1102
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: on an LED some kind of different kind of light

1103
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 1: if you want to maintain your daily cycles correctly. Yeah.

1104
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: I like the circadian rhythm interpretation of that scene. Otherwise

1105
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: he's just bored and decided to strip down and hang out,

1106
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: you know, totally unrelated to what we're just saying. Well,

1107
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: actually no sort of related to sleeping in space. One

1108
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: thing I love it predicts is that there are hotel

1109
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: chains on the space station. So I love Heywood Floyd

1110
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: gets up to the space station on the ring module,

1111
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, with the artificial gravity, and he's walking around

1112
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: and we see like a Howard Johnson's and a Hilton.

1113
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: It's such a that whole station. It's just so stylish.

1114
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 1: Just I just I just want to be there. Yeah,

1115
00:59:58,400 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: And if I was there, I could just check into

1116
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: the hotel and it'd be good to go. Well, I

1117
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: don't necessarily think that's all that implausible. I mean, I

1118
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: wonder about commercial hotel chains getting into someday, uh, space stations.

1119
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we've already seen at least I can think

1120
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: of at least one company working on space station habitats,

1121
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: like a big low Aerospace which has been working on

1122
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: orbital habitats. I think the guy behind that company was

1123
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: like a like a hotel or motel chain guy. Yeah.

1124
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: I think we will get to the point where there

1125
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: will be there will be orbital hotels. Now, will they

1126
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: have bed bugs? I don't know, it depends what will

1127
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: the well, will you know, cosmic radiation and occasional solar

1128
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 1: radiation swells due to those bed bugs, Maybe they'll become

1129
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: a giant mutants rampaging through the the the orbital wheels.

1130
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: The answer is yes. But what is a space holiday

1131
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: in without some mutants? That's true, I would hope that.

1132
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: I mean, we're basically doing all the legwork here for

1133
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: future sci fi riders. Take note, helliday in in space

1134
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: that'll be that'll be the franchise. All right, Should we

1135
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 1: take another break and then come back talk a little

1136
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: bit about how an AI and we should Alright, we're

1137
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna be right back. Than alright, we're back.

1138
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: So before we get into talking about how I do

1139
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: need to point out that we do see some scenes

1140
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: where it looks like the the the crew members of

1141
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 1: the Discovery are using iPads. They have these wonderful flat

1142
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: screen devices, and that's just one of those those moments

1143
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, man, this film totally got it right.

1144
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: I mean, they missed iPads. Uh, you know, they were

1145
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: a little early on the on the prediction, but there

1146
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: it is. So maybe everything else in the film, it's

1147
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 1: just a matter of time. Like most other things, though,

1148
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: I think they did not correctly predict miniaturization, so everything

1149
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: is very big. So obviously, as we were talking about earlier,

1150
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: one of the huge themes dealt with in this movie

1151
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: is the concept of artificial intelligence, especially if you consider

1152
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: it a story about intelligence itself, you know, biological intelligence

1153
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: and then machine intelligence. This is this is one of

1154
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 1: the key features of the story. And as we said before,

1155
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: how nine thousand the computer is somehow the most interesting

1156
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: character in the movie, Like, it has much more interesting

1157
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: things to say than the people do. Yeah, and I

1158
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: feel far more for him when he essentially dies than

1159
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: the actual human characters who die, only one of whom

1160
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: we didn't get to know at all, and then very

1161
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: barely and I've probably feel more about How's death than

1162
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 1: I do about you know, the nameless, nameless eight that's

1163
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: beaten to death. You know, I wonder if exactly what

1164
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: you're feeling their empathy for a computer more so than

1165
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: your felly human being is uh. I have to wonder

1166
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: if maybe that's intentional to and supposed to make us

1167
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: a little worried. Well, like I said earlier, we do

1168
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: not even see that one human death. We see the

1169
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: the HOW controlled e V A pod moving towards him,

1170
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: and then the next shot is are the are the

1171
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: pod and the human and that the corpse just tumbling

1172
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: through the void. Well, I mean even the characters say

1173
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: in the movie Pool, the character who gets killed by

1174
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: How says at one point in this BBC interview from

1175
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 1: the spacecraft, he says, he's just like a sixth member

1176
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: of the crew. You very quickly get adjusted to the

1177
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,479
Speaker 1: idea that he talks, and you think of him really

1178
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: just as another person. And I think that that is

1179
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,479
Speaker 1: in a sense quite literal, that there is this risk

1180
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: that we think of machines as people, and research is

1181
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: born that out. I mean, there have been tests that

1182
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: if a machine talks, if it uses language, if it

1183
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: uses social conventions, do people start to treat it like

1184
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 1: a person. And I haven't read this research in a while,

1185
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: but last time I checked in on it, I mean,

1186
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: it seems like the consensus was, yes, we very easily,

1187
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: quite readily start attributing human characteristics to inanimate objects if

1188
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: they just talk and stuff like that, if they look

1189
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: like an animal or a person smiley face on it, yeah,

1190
01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: and you begin to feel bad. If somebody give it

1191
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: a kick, yeah, that's personnel. I mean to think about, Uh,

1192
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: if you ever watched those Boston Dynamics videos where there

1193
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 1: are these four legged robots that walk around in the

1194
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: parking lot and stuff, and so when they have the

1195
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: guy coming tested by kicking it, Yeah, somebody kicks it

1196
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: to see if it can keep its balance because they're

1197
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: they're testing its locomotor capabilities, like can it stay on

1198
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: its feet if somebody tries to throw it off? But

1199
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: when I see that, I'm like, what a mean person?

1200
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 1: How could you kick that animal like that? And it's

1201
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: a robot. This is a huge blind spot for the

1202
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: human mind. And it could be that they were anticipating

1203
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: this kind of research, I mean before it was really

1204
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: even out that that Kubrick and Clark may have been

1205
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: trying to make a point that, like, we very easily,

1206
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 1: uh fall victim to thinking of machines as people if

1207
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: they even resemble people in the barest sense, such as

1208
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: speaking like a human, or or seeming to think like

1209
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: a human, or just having that one focal point, that

1210
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 1: red light that seems to be an eye, Yeah, just

1211
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: giving it the eye. If it didn't have the red

1212
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 1: light and just talked, I wonder how if we would

1213
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: feel the same way. Another thing about how that that's

1214
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: kind of disturbing is that How describes itself himself, however

1215
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: you characterize him. I don't know. I think he sort

1216
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: of presents himself as male gendered. I guess How says

1217
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: that he is quote, by any practical definition of the

1218
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: words fool proof and incapable of error. That seems like

1219
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: a bad impression to give an AI. You know, you

1220
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: shouldn't teach him to think that way. When people think

1221
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: that way, or express themselves that way, or tweet that way,

1222
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: we we instantly say there's something wrong with that person. Yeah,

1223
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you would think that any good computer program,

1224
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: especially one as complex and difficult to understand as a

1225
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: conversational AI module should have debugging features like it should

1226
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: be aware of the fact that it can malfunction, and

1227
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 1: should have built in processes for rooting out malfunction and

1228
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: fixing it. Yes, I mean the only other scenario I

1229
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: can think of is that if IT is important, as

1230
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,479
Speaker 1: it is on this discovery mission, where it's in charge

1231
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: of looking after everyone's life, then perhaps it it is

1232
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 1: advantageous to lean into sort of the godlike qualities of

1233
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: how that How. Of course HOW didn't make mistakes because

1234
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,439
Speaker 1: of how it makes a mistake, then we're all dead.

1235
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: But I think HOW is actually a very good early

1236
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: vision of AI. I mean that this again, this was

1237
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: back in the sixties and computers were not like they

1238
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: are today. It might have been harder to imagine they

1239
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: would ever get there. But there's a lot that's smart

1240
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: about the way HOW is characterized as an AI that

1241
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: goes an AI that goes off the rails and becomes

1242
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 1: murderous because they don't go the terminator direction. It's like,

1243
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: you know, oh, I've got to I've got to eliminate humanity.

1244
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: HOW is just trying to do its job. But we're

1245
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: also and we're also not privy to like all the

1246
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: really like how didn't set there and saying, look, yeah,

1247
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 1: I killed him, but this is why I killed him,

1248
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: This is why I killed all these these individuals as well,

1249
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: Like it's it's left for us to try and guess

1250
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: at what the what the full uh you know, rationale

1251
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: there is in the computers thinking or at least and

1252
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 1: that's the thing that kids explored more in the book.

1253
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 1: But but but I love how it isn't in the

1254
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: film because there is this this sense of like we

1255
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: can we can try and imagine what it is, what

1256
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: is going on in How's mind, but then ultimately to

1257
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: what extent does that match up with the computer process

1258
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 1: that's that's taking place the actual computer. Well, this is

1259
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: a great question, the question of AI psychology, because normally,

1260
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: in order to understand a computer program, what you would

1261
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 1: do is you'd want to go and look at its

1262
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: code and see what its code is doing. But obviously

1263
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: a program as complex as a conversational artificial intelligence is not.

1264
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 1: You can't really analyze it that way, right because it's

1265
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: probably been I mean, I don't know if they knew

1266
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: this at the time, but based on the way that

1267
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 1: we train machines like this today, they go through like

1268
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: machine learning, through say like deep neural networks, which produce

1269
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 1: rules that generate out comes that match the outcomes you

1270
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 1: try to train them toward. But eventually these the rules

1271
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 1: they generate are kind of opaque to us, like it's

1272
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: hard for us to understand why they're doing what they're doing.

1273
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 1: They can train themselves to produce the kind of output

1274
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 1: we want, but it, you know, there's sort of a

1275
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: black box to us, just like other minds are in

1276
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: a way, like you can't see inside somebody else's mind

1277
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 1: and understand what's happening. You can only judge by their

1278
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 1: external behavior. And so we have processes like psychology where

1279
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 1: we try to understand people's motivations. And at some point

1280
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: you've got to wonder if the best way of understanding

1281
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: and artificial intelligence will not be through looking at its

1282
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 1: code and what it's doing, because it's just too complex

1283
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: for us to understand and we don't get what the

1284
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: rules are. Instead, you'll have to make inferences based on

1285
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: machine psychology. I'm sure there's some wonderful examples of this.

1286
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this out to our sci fi readers

1287
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 1: out there, but I wonder has there been is there

1288
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: are there are there fictional like AI psychologists that pop

1289
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: up in sci fi? Oh? Absolutely, uh and I robot

1290
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: Oh of course, how could I forget all of them,

1291
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: all of the Asimov's robot stors. What's her name, Susan Calvin?

1292
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: Is that right? I think she's a robot psychologist. Yes,

1293
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 1: I remember I read all of these when I was

1294
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 1: in junior high and I was was one of these

1295
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 1: times where like now, I don't do this, but at

1296
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: the time, I always would make a distinctive choice in

1297
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 1: which actor I was casting as Uh as a given part,

1298
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 1: and so I always chose to cast her as Sigourney Weavers.

1299
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: So oh yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. I mean

1300
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: it also shows my limitations of casting out uh stories

1301
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 1: in your mind when you've only seen, you know, so

1302
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: many different sci fi films as a kid. Well, I

1303
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: think she would make a great doctor Susan Oh, yeah,

1304
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 1: but yeah it is Susan Calvin, that's her name. Yeah,

1305
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,520
Speaker 1: and she's a robot psychologist. So no, this has absolutely

1306
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: been explored in science fiction before. I mean I wonder

1307
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if this will literally be at some point

1308
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: the best way we have of understanding what an AI

1309
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 1: is doing, because it'll be too complex and too opay

1310
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: to try to understand it a mechanistic level. We have

1311
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: to understand it like get the get the gestalt, in

1312
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 1: the same way that a psychologist would from interviewing a person. Yeah,

1313
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: so I guess what I'm trying to imagine here, And

1314
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 1: again this is perhaps something that does exist in a

1315
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 1: sci fi story somewhere. Would you have a situation where

1316
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: you have a lengthy space flight and you have on

1317
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 1: one hand the AI that is managing the people and

1318
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: looking for psychosis or any other kind of mental problems

1319
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 1: in the humans. But then you also have to have

1320
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 1: a human or a portion of the human population whose

1321
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 1: whole job is to just watch the AI to make

1322
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: sure the I AI isn't my malfunctioning. And so you

1323
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: end up having to have this careful balance of both

1324
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 1: sides looking for signs of essentially mental illness. Well, yeah,

1325
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 1: you you can imagine a kind of like a talk

1326
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: therapy regime for an AI, just to make sure that

1327
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,520
Speaker 1: it's emotionally stable, that it's you know, that it's experiencing

1328
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: the mental health to recognize signs and symptoms of I

1329
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: don't know what you would call it in AI, but

1330
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 1: the AI equivalent of delusion or hallucinations or anything else

1331
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: that could be worrying. Quick fun fact here, it's it's

1332
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: mentioned in the film that How became operational in nineteen

1333
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 1: nine two, which which I love that because that that

1334
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,599
Speaker 1: makes everything even feel feel even more um like, that's

1335
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: the date that makes me sad as opposed to two

1336
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: thousand one. Cinematically, nineteen two, I would say is the

1337
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: first year of the nineteen nineties, because in a in

1338
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 1: a cinematic time scale, nineteen ninety nine one, we're still

1339
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 1: the eighties. Yeah, and ninety two I was looking this

1340
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: up sort of a terrible year in actual science fiction,

1341
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,599
Speaker 1: as it gave us such let's say, challenging to love

1342
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: films as Alien three, and Alien three is the best

1343
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,800
Speaker 1: film I'm gonna list here because it also this is

1344
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 1: also the year that gave us Universal Soldier, Free Jack,

1345
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 1: the lawnmower Man Memoirs of an Invisible Man. Haven't seen it,

1346
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 1: John Carpenter joint It's not a good one. Yeah. I

1347
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: enjoyed it at the time, but I was like a child. Uh,

1348
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 1: and then a solar crisis. I don't know it oh,

1349
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: very problematic production history. Also split second, don't know this

1350
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: one second it's uh, Rudgar Howard running around in sewers

1351
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 1: with monsters. It's actually it's kind on board. Yeah, but

1352
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 1: put me in that sewer. There were no certainly no

1353
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,240
Speaker 1: contenders for the crown of two thousand one of Space

1354
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 1: Odyssey in but speaking of Alien three, I mean I

1355
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:27,440
Speaker 1: would say Alien is another franchise where you do absolutely

1356
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: see echoes of two thousand Space Odyssey, you see. I mean,

1357
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:33,440
Speaker 1: it's a very different kind of story, but you absolutely

1358
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: see the legacy of the way it changed our vision

1359
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 1: of space travel and space exploration and uh and kind

1360
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: of the deep, the mystery of of the world beyond.

1361
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:47,959
Speaker 1: So one more question about how How claims to be conscious?

1362
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: Do you believe him? Robert? Is he conscious? I in

1363
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 1: watching the film, I was definitely thinking about this, uh

1364
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: when he when How brought it up? Uh, you know,

1365
01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 1: in a large part due to our recent topics about

1366
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 1: conscious this, I keep coming back to the eye, the

1367
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: eye of how. You know, we spent a lot of

1368
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 1: times zooming in on it. Uh. There's an implied focus

1369
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: of attention there is how is watching things, observing things,

1370
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 1: watching the two crew members UH speak, reading their lips

1371
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 1: as they're essentially plotting against him. How has enormous computing

1372
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 1: power obviously, but does seem capable of folks focusing his

1373
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: attention on given problems people in situations. So if you

1374
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 1: lean towards an explanation of a human consciousness that is

1375
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: more about focused attention attention schema theory, and you know

1376
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:42,560
Speaker 1: the use of limited cognitive um mechanisms to to to

1377
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: tackle any given problem or scenario, then then I buy

1378
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 1: the idea that How is conscious. Well, I don't know.

1379
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if it's he's conscious by

1380
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 1: necessity or by design, if you're looking at it in

1381
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: this light, though, I very much am persuaded by the

1382
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 1: idea that consciousness has something deep to do with attention,

1383
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 1: uh from a from a brain structure standpoint. But at

1384
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:09,639
Speaker 1: the same time, I don't know if focus and attention

1385
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,719
Speaker 1: is enough for consciousness because you can imagine just making

1386
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 1: an automated security camera that tracks things across so you

1387
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't assume that that thing was conscious. So it seems

1388
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 1: very true to me that consciousness in humans definitely has

1389
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,640
Speaker 1: something strong to do with attention, But I don't know

1390
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 1: if just the ability to focus and give attention to

1391
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 1: things creates consciousness. It's true now, But but then you know,

1392
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:35,600
Speaker 1: another thing that comes up in all of this is

1393
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:37,640
Speaker 1: just the question I believe this is the question that

1394
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 1: I I asked Max tech Mark in in my interview

1395
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: with him from previous episode. Uh, is it possible? Would

1396
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:46,639
Speaker 1: you would you be able to have a super intelligent machine?

1397
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 1: Would you be able to have a How nine thousand

1398
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't conscious or his consciousness essential to the to

1399
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: to its function? That's a great question. Obviously that's not

1400
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:00,599
Speaker 1: something we know the answer to, but it's it's interesting

1401
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 1: to wonder if, yeah, if there could be such a

1402
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 1: thing as great intelligence without consciousness? Is How quote unquote

1403
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: conscious because How has to be conscious to do what

1404
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 1: he does? Or is it all about making the humans comfortable,

1405
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: giving the humans something that they can relate to and

1406
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:22,680
Speaker 1: have a conversation with. Yeah, so it would be a

1407
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: great irony if the designers of How made him act

1408
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: like he is conscious to make the crew members more

1409
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:31,679
Speaker 1: comfortable around him, make him seem more like a person

1410
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 1: that they can get along with. But in fact, the

1411
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: irony is that when David Bowman has to go kill How.

1412
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 1: How begs for his life because he simulates consciousness. He says,

1413
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 1: I'm afraid that's such a heartbreaking moment. Yeah, because he

1414
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 1: says that towards the very end. Yeah, and he says

1415
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: it over and over again, and it kind of makes

1416
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 1: me hate David Bowman a little bit, Like, I know,

1417
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: I know How just killed about people, but I'm still

1418
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 1: kind of like, ah, Bowman, you have no chill where

1419
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: you're You're falling for those sli machine appeals getting under

1420
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: your skin. They were they were. I mean, in many ways,

1421
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 1: How is like a child, and you know, he's he's

1422
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 1: a very He's a different type of child. He has

1423
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: a capable there's a calmness and a reason to him

1424
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 1: that you generally do not find in a child that

1425
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 1: is far more emotional. But but yeah, there's the there

1426
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: is this childlike element. So it's like Bowman is killing

1427
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 1: a child, especially towards the end when he is he's

1428
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: singing Daisy. Yeah, he's singing a song. It's uh, it's

1429
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:29,599
Speaker 1: it's incredibly unerving. Uh. And that scene is mostly remembered

1430
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: when people make jokes about it. Now, like that's the

1431
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:34,800
Speaker 1: primary context in which that scene comes up. But if

1432
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:37,560
Speaker 1: you watch it in the context of the movie, it

1433
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 1: is a deeply disturbing, weird, uh surreal scene. It kind

1434
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 1: of makes it takes you out of your body in

1435
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 1: a way. Yeah, alright, so we're beginning to run out

1436
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:50,920
Speaker 1: of time here. We should probably talk You should probably

1437
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: talk about those aliens that the entire movement of the plot. So,

1438
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 1: of course there's the huge question of of what is

1439
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:01,760
Speaker 1: happening the end of the movie after David Bowman goes

1440
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 1: through the stargate. Uh, and he's in that room with

1441
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: the weird you know, neoclassical furniture and the paintings and

1442
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:10,720
Speaker 1: he and he turns into the star child. What is

1443
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 1: happening there? Uh? On one hand, I can definitely see

1444
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: that the creators try to resist explaining literally what's happening there.

1445
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,799
Speaker 1: It might be that they don't have a literal answer.

1446
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:27,879
Speaker 1: There is one audio clip that is supposedly of Kubrick,

1447
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: but I think it's unconfirmed whether it's Kubrick or not,

1448
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 1: but it's been alleged, well it was. I think it

1449
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,000
Speaker 1: was a recording supposedly made by a filmmaker who was

1450
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 1: doing a documentary and interviewed and and claimed to have

1451
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 1: interviewed Kubrick. It was released many years later, but if

1452
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:48,480
Speaker 1: this clip of Cooper talking is actually genuine, he explains,

1453
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 1: you know, he says, like I've been resistant to explaining

1454
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: the ending, but if you must know, basically what's happening

1455
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: is that Bowman has been put into a kind of

1456
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,439
Speaker 1: cosmic zoo. Uh. It's a place where he can be

1457
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 1: observed of by these creatures from you know, galactic civilization,

1458
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: and the zoo is it has this sort of like

1459
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:10,680
Speaker 1: inaccurate historical furniture. They've tried to create an environment that

1460
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,759
Speaker 1: he would think was pretty like simulating his natural environment.

1461
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 1: So they have this like French you know, kind of

1462
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: furniture and stuff like that. And uh, and it's kind

1463
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:22,640
Speaker 1: of in the same way that like a human zoo

1464
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 1: might put a tiger in a cage with something kind

1465
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,600
Speaker 1: of roughly approximating its natural environment, but not in a

1466
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 1: very not in a very accurate way. I like, I

1467
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 1: like this explanation, and mean, of course, it was inevitably

1468
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: reminds me of Billy Pilgrim and slaughter House five. Very

1469
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:43,559
Speaker 1: different type of zoo, very different, very different story entirely,

1470
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 1: but but ultimately the same scenario, let's just put him

1471
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 1: in here and uh watch him go. And then of course,

1472
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 1: the the alleged Kubrick in this recording says that after

1473
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 1: they're sort of finished with him, after after they've finished

1474
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: observing him, they transform him into some kind of god,

1475
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:02,720
Speaker 1: into some kind of super being and send him back

1476
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:06,040
Speaker 1: to Earth. Uh, and that that he you know that

1477
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 1: Kuber says, this is something that happens in a lot

1478
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 1: of myths, which is very true, you know, like the

1479
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: human gets the apotheosis kind of narrative, human gets transformed

1480
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:17,599
Speaker 1: into a star heavenly being or god or demi god,

1481
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: and look at what they can do now. Yeah. And

1482
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 1: I know that this idea is more born out in

1483
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,679
Speaker 1: the literature and in Clark's writings. But at the same time,

1484
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:29,439
Speaker 1: I I can't watch the final portions of the film

1485
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:32,400
Speaker 1: without thinking of it and contemplating it more as a

1486
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 1: almost kind of a riddle of the Sphinx kind of moment,

1487
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: like having this encounter with this deadly potentially deadly at

1488
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:45,840
Speaker 1: least powerful uh in human force, and in doing so

1489
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:50,000
Speaker 1: you are contemplating you're just forced to contemplate the nature

1490
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 1: of man because there is this sense of it is

1491
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:53,599
Speaker 1: kind of like the Rible of the Sphinx, where you're

1492
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:57,920
Speaker 1: seeing Bowman progressively age and go through at least the

1493
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 1: remaining phases of few in existence and then well and

1494
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:03,800
Speaker 1: then if you count the baby and kind of coming

1495
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:06,560
Speaker 1: back around to the first model. Well, I like so

1496
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 1: the model of change that I like in that scene

1497
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 1: is sort of similar to what we were talking about

1498
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 1: with Ebert's interpretation of what happens with the monolith and

1499
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 1: the ape like creatures. So the ape like creatures see

1500
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 1: the monolith, and it's not even necessarily that it does

1501
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 1: something to their brains physically to change them into smarter

1502
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:31,480
Speaker 1: organisms or something. It's just seeing it. It's just the inspiration,

1503
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 1: the experience of what that shape is like that inspires

1504
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 1: them to pick up the bone. I like that interpretation,

1505
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 1: And so what if at the end, it's it's you

1506
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,799
Speaker 1: know that to the millionth power, it's that David Bowman

1507
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:48,640
Speaker 1: has seen such things, he's been he's experienced such a

1508
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 1: different reality than he thought was possible in the presence

1509
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 1: of these aliens with all their technological power, that he

1510
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 1: is in a sense transformed the same way that the

1511
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 1: ape like creatures transformed, but just by what they've seen. Yeah,

1512
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean he probably saw colors that don't exist in

1513
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 1: the real world world for like a thousand years there

1514
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 1: in that segment. So yeah, I like that in interpretation

1515
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:13,880
Speaker 1: as well. But there is a sense of transformation. I mean,

1516
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 1: obviously he does become something else or the thing that

1517
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 1: was Bowman becomes this new entity in a sense when

1518
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 1: he comes back and looks over the earth, what is that?

1519
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 1: Is he there in a benevolent way, in a malevolent way?

1520
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: What's he gonna do? I think that was this kind

1521
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,040
Speaker 1: of a great riddle to uh to close out the

1522
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 1: episode on like what what is he going to do? What?

1523
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 1: What is the what is this next phase and human

1524
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 1: evolution going to produce? You know, what will the the

1525
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: higher human form be? Like? What will it be? Uh?

1526
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: Would be as dangerous and self destructive? Is what we

1527
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:51,320
Speaker 1: have now? Or you know, in which case the Bowman

1528
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 1: starchild is is a destroyer returning to his birth world

1529
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 1: or is it is human as humanity going to becomes

1530
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 1: something nobler in which case he is returning as a savior,

1531
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 1: or is it going to transcend our physical forms altogether?

1532
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 1: Is our future of future of information alone? Do we

1533
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:15,600
Speaker 1: become intelligence in some way rather than becoming a biological species.

1534
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 1: These are all great questions, and one of the great

1535
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,040
Speaker 1: things about two thousand one what makes it a great

1536
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:22,120
Speaker 1: movie is that it forces us to ask these kinds

1537
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 1: of questions. Yeah. Absolutely, so it's one for the ages man.

1538
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 1: All right. As we close up, I will say, Uh,

1539
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 1: there was a little bit I wanted to discuss about

1540
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 1: the idea of an alien civilization storing a monolith on

1541
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:36,680
Speaker 1: the other side of the moon, but I think we

1542
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:40,760
Speaker 1: talked about it a little bit in our Ancient Aliens episode. Uh.

1543
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,639
Speaker 1: There there was some some some earlier writings from Carl

1544
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:48,000
Speaker 1: Sagan where he actually referenced um Um Clark and said, oh, well,

1545
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:50,559
Speaker 1: this is actually a pretty good idea of how an

1546
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:54,640
Speaker 1: alien civilization might have left a sentinel for us to

1547
01:22:55,200 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 1: encounter should we reach a certain level of technological advancement. Unfortunately,

1548
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 1: we have come across no such artifacts. No, we have not,

1549
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:06,320
Speaker 1: but we do have two thousand and one, which is

1550
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:08,080
Speaker 1: a really good movie. This is the kind of thing

1551
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 1: we might want to leave on the dark side of

1552
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 1: of of of of a lunar body for another civilization

1553
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 1: to discover. All right, So if you want to listen

1554
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: to more episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind. Head

1555
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:21,360
Speaker 1: on over to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com.

1556
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 1: That's where we'll find all of the episodes, including that

1557
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:27,960
Speaker 1: ancient Aliens episode that we mentioned there uh and all

1558
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:32,719
Speaker 1: these episodes that have dealt with consciousness, AI, space travel,

1559
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:36,880
Speaker 1: micro gravity, you name it. Uh. And you also find

1560
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 1: links out there very social media accounts such as Facebook

1561
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,200
Speaker 1: and Twitter and Instagram. And as always, if you want

1562
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:43,960
Speaker 1: to support the show, the best thing you can do

1563
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:47,160
Speaker 1: is rate and review us wherever you have the ability

1564
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 1: to do so. Huge thanks as always to our wonderful

1565
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 1: audio producers Alex Williams and Terry Harrison. If you want

1566
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:55,599
Speaker 1: to get in touch with us directly with feedback about

1567
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 1: this episode or any other, with the suggestions for a

1568
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 1: future topic, or just to say hi, let us know

1569
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:04,719
Speaker 1: where you listen from, you can email us at blow

1570
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:16,280
Speaker 1: the Mind at how stuff works dot com for more

1571
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:18,640
Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Does it how

1572
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. The Bigges