WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Howard Hewett 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.040 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:10.280 What Up People? 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.040 June is here and that means it's Flat Music Month, 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.079 and that Quest Love Supreme now the Quest Love Show. 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:20.080 We've taken this month seriously. It's our chance to celebrate 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.200 blat music, document its history, and recognize the impact it 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:26.800 continues to have on our culture around the world. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:27.680 GARYL. 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.960 June, We'll be bringing you an episode every day. 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.519 My team and I have gone back through. 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.760 The archives and pulled to gather conversations, stories and moments 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.960 that help tell a biggest story about black music and 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.120 the people who shaped it. We also got four brand 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:48.600 new Quest Love Show episodes coming your way, spotlining artists, thinkers, innovators, 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:54.080 cultural shifters, revolutionaries from across the spectrum of black music, past, 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.880 present and future. Thanks for spinning. You're part of June 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:00.000 with us, Happy Black Music monk. 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:15.320 All right, Oh damn, I'm paid bills. What the hell? 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:24.880 Snap son, Jesus Christ, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode. 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:32.520 Of course, I'm supreme. I'm sorry, Bill, Thank you very much. Yeah, 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.399 all right, starring up. Pay Bill Man, you're in the house. 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.920 You even with even with a Tony You're you're still 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:41.319 with us. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.200 I know, I'm just close from not. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.640 I'm here for Billy. 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:51.800 The second you complete, you got, you're not gonna mess 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.920 with this anymore. The second he got before you, Hell yeah, 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:59.880 I'm getting out. Bill loves Supreme. I taking everybody with 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:09.000 cover too, He says, right, exactly, all right, sir Steve, 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.320 you're still loyal, correct to Bill Sherman. 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.080 Yes, okay, hey, at least you lord of somebody. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.160 We got Funicolo in the crib. What's up? Brother? 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.359 You call us good bro? Yeah, I'm good man. Were 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:22.160 down twenty six? 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:26.680 Cause? Yeah, nice? We move, we move, we moveing weight son. 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.120 I like the fact that we down twenty six actually 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:31.960 is a good thing, because normally that could mean like 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:33.920 Atlanta is down by twenty six or you. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:40.120 Down twenty six thousand dollars? Exactly what it is? 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.519 The game, na man? 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:48.040 You know, it's still trying trying to live past fifty. Yes, 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.600 which is you know, struggle, super struggle. 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:52.840 How are you? 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:53.040 Hey? 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.520 I'm good man, I'm feeling all right, feeling all right. 0:02:55.800 --> 0:03:00.160 We're good all right, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, what can 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:00.600 I say? 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:06.080 Our guest is a freakin' legend known to us of course, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:12.320 as one third of probably one of my favorite groups. 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.400 I don't know, I can't categorize Shalamar as a soul group. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.120 I can't categorize them as a pop group or a 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:20.840 bookie group. 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:25.240 But you know, I mean because they transitioned between disco, 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:29.400 between bookie and between new wave eighties pop, you know 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.200 they were everlasting. And you know, of course, our guest 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:38.760 today is, without saying, a singer's singer, a real singer 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:44.000 and awesome singer has had such a story career singing 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.040 the soundtrack of our lives. I don't even want to 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.720 waste one minute in my patent long nineteen minute intros. 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.360 I will just say, welcome to Quest Left Supreme, the 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.040 one and only Howard Hewitt. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.800 Thank you, yes, indeed, thank you, thank you for coming. 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.440 Yeah, I can't wait till we're off of zoom so 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:08.080 we could have like real hand claps again, like the 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:09.800 last seven episodes were all. 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:12.080 Breathing. 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.280 And that's what that's what it's a killer, because that's 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:17.440 exactly what it sounds like when you're in, when you're 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:18.760 in like a huge. 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:24.960 Crowd, like right, exactly right, all right, we'll be effects week. 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.240 How are you today? What's going on? 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.120 Very good, very well, Just just like we were talking 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.720 earlier about I do my my daily walk and I'm 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.200 trying to stay ahead of this heat out here. It's 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.080 like crazy, man, really crazy out here in California. Well 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:47.000 where I am, it's different temperatures different, Yeah, Long Beach. 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.679 Out of the Long Beach. Yesterday it was like seventy 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:52.880 seven degrees out here all day yesterday was like a 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.920 hundred and real field was one hundred and eight. So 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.720 Jesus great, what one hundred and eight? 0:04:58.800 --> 0:04:58.960 Man? 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.680 It was one of those times you just stay in 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.440 that you stay in the house, you don't even go outside. 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.440 Close the curtains. 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.960 Actually, you you mentioned something that this this actually might 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.240 be inspirational for me. How often do you have to 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:19.320 commit to the daily walk. I'll admit that I will 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:23.880 often let my work schedule become become my excuse to 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:24.919 get out of it. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.919 So I've been I've been. 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.320 Sort of religious about the daily walk, but in the 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.640 last two weeks I've sort of slacked off on it 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:36.200 just due to the scheduling of it. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:40.680 But how important is the daily walked? Because before we 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.240 were rolling, we were just basically. 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:47.279 Talking about the struggle to survive, especially for black people 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.760 to struggle to survive past fifty without. 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.000 You know, some sort of condition happening. So you know, 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:52.560 like I'm. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.160 Sure, I'm certain that most of us that are on 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:57.800 our walking thing is doing it for health reasons and whatnot. 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:02.279 So conditioning, you know, conditioning. And but for me, especially 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.919 for the past year, since the since the pandemic, it 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.200 was almost like in the beginning of the pandemic, it 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:10.800 was a spiritual thing for me because it was like 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.359 it was almost like God said to me, he said, 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.920 I'm going to remove everything from you that can distract 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.560 you from me. You did what I'm saying. Me and 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.279 my girl broke up a couple of months before before COVID. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.599 You know, my partner. I'm not saying that that's why 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.320 he took him away from here, but he passed Like 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.560 in the beginning, the very beginning of of COVID, I 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.840 known this this cat since I was twenty years old 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:38.760 and my best friend. 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:39.440 Right. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:44.360 So, but through my career, I've gone through you know, death, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.200 my mom and dad. You know, I've gone through breakups 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.159 and all that kind of stuff. Some of the saddest 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.000 times that I spent in my career was spent on stage. 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.119 You did what I'm saying, because and I had my work. 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.440 I always had my work. And so so he said, 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.840 no distractions now and he said, he said, and I'm 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.200 gonna take that away from you right now, you know. 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.200 And then and then my next question in my spirit was, 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.040 now what you're gonna do? You know what I'm saying. 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.960 And so that's when I did a daily I did 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:22.200 a daily reading. I get up, I read a daily situation. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.800 I read. I started from Genesis in my Bible and went, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.200 I'm all the way up almost halfway through the New 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.680 Testament now, you know, and and all the way and 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.440 every day. Because when I built my house, I had 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.320 them build a deck off of right, I can I 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.680 can roll out of bed in five or six steps. 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.240 I'm right outside on my deck, you know what I'm saying. 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:49.679 So that was my daily devotion between me, God, Christ, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.720 the Holy Spirit. And so it was like and with that, 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.760 I started a whole situation as far as like we 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:00.640 were being shut in, but that didn't mean that we 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.640 had to be conspictators. So like when I in the 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.720 beginning of the pandemic, you know, I got out on 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.239 my bike there's like a fifteen to twenty mile route 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.880 that I can take around my crib. I got out 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.400 on my bike and then in the middle of that 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.360 fifteen to twenty miles route, I decided I stopped to 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:19.920 take a break, and I said, well, let me go 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.920 on Facebook, my Facebook fan page Live. Let me go 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.360 on live for a minute. And I went on there 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:31.080 and all these people started flooding into the thing, what's up, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:32.880 what's going while you're doing you know, what's happening? Blah 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.600 blah blah blah blah. And so then that told me 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.600 that people are in But you know, and the thing 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.320 about this pandemic, about this virus rather is that it 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:47.440 thrives on It thrived on low immune systems. It thrived 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:53.199 on load vitamin D deficiencies, which is really heavy and 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:58.120 all especially within black people, right, so and so like 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.480 it was like that when I started. When I started, 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:03.240 I said, Okay, I'm gonna do it my walk, because 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.800 I do it like a four mile walk. And then 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.480 and at first I was walking and had my had 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.080 my had my phone in my hand walking, I'm walking 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.320 and talking at the same time, right, and then I'm 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.760 like I wasn't getting any benefit from the walk actually 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.280 because I'm not pacing myself. So then eventually I did 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.560 in the middle of the four miles, after about two miles, 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.839 i'd stop at a specific place and then I talk right. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.880 So first at first it was fac dot dot dot 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:37.160 and life right, fresh air cardio, all that leads to life, 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.600 you know what I'm saying. And then after we started 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.679 talking and I started having these conversations my my, you know, 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.080 take on what was happening as far as the last 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:50.200 administration was concerned, my take on you know, the virus, 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.000 my take on this, my take, and people were chiming in. 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.880 Then it became a conversation. So then I added fac 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.200 c at another C dot dot and like fresh air 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:08.440 cardio conversation, which adds the communication, understanding each other and 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.280 all that leads to life, you know what I'm saying. 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:16.800 So it's almost like now, after all this time, it's 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.240 like I feel like I'm obligated to get on there 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.920 for my people, so like, you know, the people that 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:27.440 have have dedicated themselves to being there, so I have 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.040 a dedication to that myself. So on top of that, 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.360 getting you know, my health and keeping my health up 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.440 and keeping everything up you know. It's it's like, okay, 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:40.560 I can. I can take the time to do all 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:45.160 that stuff. Sometimes, you know, the schedule will well like 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.480 get in the way as far as like how early 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.240 I start, how early I can get out there. But 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.319 I'm always going to get out there, you know what 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.520 I'm saying. Every day, every day, I'm out there every day. 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:56.160 I love it. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.840 Even on the weekend. I know, I don't come on. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:01.840 I ain't on the weekend. I don't go live on 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.040 the weekend, but I get out there and do something 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.280 on the weekend, do a daily show. Okay, yeah, all right, 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.200 well yeah. 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.840 How are you just let it be known that you're 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:15.280 definitely the straw that broke the all right, fine if 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.320 you That's what I needed to hear, you know, because 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:19.960 people have been get on me like, yo, man, you 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.960 slacking off. Man, you you're committed your da da da 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:24.439 you're falling off, like you. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.320 Know, my partners don't walk with and all that stuff. 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.000 So they were getting on me today about that, like 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:31.280 you ain't walked in like ten. 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.880 Days, a mirite. So all right, I now know. 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.760 I now know that I have to It's important, man, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.280 It's really important because you know, you all you know, 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.040 all you got. If you don't have anything else, you 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.000 know you got and you have your health. If you 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.400 if everything's jacked up, everything can. 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:47.920 Be going well. 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.199 But if you don't have your health, man, that's crazy. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.000 It's crazy. And then if stuff is jacked up and 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.640 your health is jacked up, that's like a whole other thing. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:11:58.920 There's a whole other situation. 0:11:58.960 --> 0:11:59.760 You're absolutely right. 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.840 Well, I'm brother, you look awesome like you you look 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:05.040 great and great health. 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.000 That's the five year old gold. 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:07.680 That's it. 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:09.040 Sixty five. 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:15.320 Late forties to me, like for real, for real, they 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.480 still look great. Six. So yeah. 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:22.400 The the question I want to pose to you, of course, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.160 is the first question always ask on the show. Uh, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.520 could you please tell us what your first musical memory was? 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:36.480 My first musical memory, man was Actually I would think 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:43.960 Isley Brothers, Sam Cook and my grandmother's garage. When we 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.959 would have all the holidays we would we would it 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.679 would always be at my grandmother, my grandma fitz Hugh's house. 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.920 And well, you mean records or in person. 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.920 No records I'm talking about say damn. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:02.480 I was like, whoa, oh, you're talking about live as 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:06.560 far as no, no, no, no, no, no, I mean your first memory. 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.320 All right, Yeah, that's that's one of musical because we played. 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:11.680 I wasn't I was when I was five years old, 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:13.960 four or five years old. I was in charge of 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.800 like playing the forty fives and stuff and and they 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.120 clear out the garage and put a turntable in there 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.200 and we had the forty fives and stuff. So I 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.480 remember chain Gang, Sam Cook and twists and shout of 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.760 course you know the Is brothers. Yeah, I remember, I did. 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:32.120 You know. 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.280 I did about about twenty cities with Ron Iley about 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.839 some years, about six seven, eight years ago. And usually 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.280 when I do a show, I'm usually I do my 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.680 show and I'm gone or else, or if I'm headlining, 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.319 I get there twenty minutes before I go on and 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:51.800 that's it. I don't want to get there and hang 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.080 around and stuff. And if I'm on before the headliner, 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.199 then I'm gone. But with Ron, when I was out 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.240 there with Ron and and uh II Brothers and with 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.120 Ernie and stuff, man, every night, I was like in 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.880 the wings, you know, I was just like watching because 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.520 he took me all the way back to when I 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.439 was like five years old, you know, five six, four, 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.319 six seven, years old and then he caught me. You 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.400 called me out on stage every once in a while, man, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:24.640 and that was like, what, all right, cool? You know, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.960 but that's my first as far as musical musical situation. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.280 I think that's the foundation that I had. And then 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.280 you know, went into the whole gospel thing. 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.040 Okay, yeah, I was going to say that. 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.600 Okay, that makes sense because usually every musical great has 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:45.680 some sort of DJ curation experience before they get into 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:46.360 their profession. 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.280 So that makes sense that you were in charge of 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.280 the family collection. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.880 All DJs want to be singers, and all singers want 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.840 to be DJ's. I was saying. He's saying with Frankie 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:02.720 Crocker a lot back in to day, and uh, that 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:04.320 was one of my best partners. 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:05.680 And what was he like? Man? 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.440 Was he you know known him as that personality? Was 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:09.560 he really out there like that? 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.880 Frank Frankie was the most down down nigga in the world, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.800 you know. And I remember because when we first proper. 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.760 All the time I heard him speak, and. 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.680 You know, I said, I'm on the Quest Love Show. 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:27.920 I got to be proper nigga. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.880 No, no, you must an't listen to the question. 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:36.880 He's done my homework, you know. 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:39.880 Now we keep it out of let it go. 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.640 Now. Frank was down nigga boy. He was like and 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.280 it was like when I first met him, you know, 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.400 we it was we had a second time around out. 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.720 So we were a lot of the lot of the 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.440 promotion in New York and stuff, and and uh, we 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.520 got to the we got to w B L S 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.840 and h he wasn't ready yet. So lady that was 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.120 the rep that was from the record company, she said, Okay, 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.920 well we're waiting on Frankie. We'll go over down to 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.480 this other I forget whether the station was kiss or 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.720 something like that was kissing, And so we went down there, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.960 did the interview and stuff, and then we came back 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.360 and like Frankie were sitting down in the in the 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.800 lobby of the BLS and Frankie comes out. When he 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.800 walks out, you know, this is tall, I mean, black 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.840 nigga man. He's like fine features, you know. And I 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.120 remember reading about Frankie when I was like fifteen, sixteen 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.480 years old, when he got into the into the thing 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.640 with the Paola thing. So I remember, I remember there 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:43.240 was like an article and Playboy, and of course, you know, 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:50.720 I never looked at the picture article, but it talked 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.520 about it talked about his whole ordeal with the Paola 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.600 situation and the fact at the time that he when 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.680 he came back after the piel, he came back winding 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.120 up under twenty fifth Street on the White Stallion. 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:03.840 Yeah. 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.720 Yeah, yeah, he was all the saying, so like we 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.359 when he came out, he's stood up there and he 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.480 just kind of stood there, right, and we're sitting he said, 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.359 I got my spies out. I know y'all went to 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:20.240 the other station. Y'all heard you. That's how we started out, right, 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.639 So we went in and then he looked at it 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.800 and he was doing the interview and stuff, and he says, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.040 you know, your voice reminds me of Gladys Night. And 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.439 I'm like, glad it's night. But come on, man, Gladys Night. 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.679 I'm flattered, but Gladys Night, that's a chick, right, So 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.119 and uh and so then that's that's how our whole 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:40.359 thing started out. And I kind of clammed up on 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.359 the on the interview because I also heard about the 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.320 Isley brother interview, the historic Eisley brother interview when they 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:51.080 got in the fight on on you know, they. 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.600 Never heard of that one. I've heard this looking at. 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.280 Us fight live on the air. 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.840 You know, that's a lot of eyes like that was 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:01.720 before any. 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.159 That's that's before any of them passed away. So they 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:04.960 were all on. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.880 All of them. Christ Jasper about six. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.600 But take out. So like later on we said, you know, 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.280 I saw him, I think because we were there doing 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.080 the thing. I think it was at Madison Square or 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.720 something like that, one of those big festivals, and so 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:23.879 at the you know, when I saw him later on 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.120 that night or the next night or something, he said, look, 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.760 I got a house, you know, and in Beverly Hills, 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.840 you know, off Bendic Canyon, he said, he said, here's that. 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.360 You know that We exchanged numbers and stuff. He said, 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.040 when you're when you're back in town, when you're off 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:37.600 the road, give me a car. You come up, you know, 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.240 have some dinner. I said, cool, you know, let's go, 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.840 I said. And so a couple of two, three weeks later, 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.520 we're going. I'm home and I give him a call 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.800 and he says, yeah, come on left for dinner. And 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.080 I'm thinking, you know, all right, Frankie Cockett's house. I 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:56.600 know he got ladies all over the the whole thing. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.439 I'm bowling, you know. And I got up there and 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:05.439 it was me, him and his mom, Miss Brocker, and 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.680 he took care of his mom, and like from that 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.320 point on we got jam type. It was like it 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.159 was that that was my that was my man. That 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.879 was my man. So dope, you know, yeah, he was. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.400 He was. He was not the persona basically. I mean, 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:22.960 he lived large, you don't, don't get it wrong, and 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.679 he demanded his respect as far as that's concerned. But 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:32.560 he wasn't something unorderly, un you know, crazy. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.199 He had a house in Beverly Hills and he was 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:37.640 a New York personality too. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.000 Yeah, he up on house up on Benedict On off 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:42.919 of Benedict Canyon. 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.160 Yeah, he was the highest plate like black radio jock 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:46.800 in the country. 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.840 So was he doing syndicated back then or was it just. 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.440 He was he was doing he would do. I think syndication. 0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:58.960 Syndication was just coming in maybe not too long after that. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.960 But but he had he's had that house. He had 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:04.040 that house up there for a long time. 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:14.840 Say that's what I was thinking. Put you in the paper. 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.040 Maybe you know, yeah, I see, But do you do 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:27.560 you remember the first album that you purchased with your 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.639 own money, with my own money. 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.359 I don't remember which one of what it was exactly. 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:40.280 I can't say, uh back in the day because. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.879 I still be stolen to Just in case I'm saying 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.240 people have come stealing their first records. 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.280 Yeah exactly. But see, you know I come, I come 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.159 from my household, my I have four older sisters. You 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:52.800 know what I'm saying. 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.760 Soyo wow, Okay. 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.680 So you know two times I had to I think 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.639 an album. Though I do believe an album that I 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.120 would have purchased, it might not have been the very 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.520 first one with it like Parliament Funkadelic and you know 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.479 all that kind of stuff like Maggot Brains and I 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:15.600 love that Eddie Agel situation. 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:20.760 Okay, yeah, okay, yeah, I take it. I know you 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:22.600 were born in Ohio, but I don't know what city 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:23.399 you were born in. 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.440 Akron, Akron, Ohio, Akron. 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:33.359 Okay, yeah, wait a minute, Okay, this explains it all right. 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:39.320 So I know that James Ingram is also from Akron, Ohio. Yeah, 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.960 and I assume that you two were really good friends fifteen. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:44.920 I met James when I was fifteen. 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:47.720 So this is this explains why you two are also 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.400 seeing background and pyt together exactly. 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:51.879 Okay. 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.000 I was with James when he got the demo for 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:00.760 Just Once, you know, and he's like, man, listen, because 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:02.600 we lived right around the corner from each other at 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.000 that time. And he said, man, and he said, listeners, 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:07.600 what do you think about this? I said, Man, I 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:09.600 think that's a coble song. He said, man, this is 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:11.520 some there's some pop pussy right here. 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:11.760 Man. 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:22.440 And I said, I said, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:26.680 true boy. Because you know, but see when Jane, when 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.480 I was back in Ohio my group, my group was 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.400 called Life. We spelled the l yf E, so Life 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.920 Jennings won the first nigga to say that right when 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:41.639 we spelled l yfy Life Banding Show. And it was 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:46.280 like seven of us and we were like fifteen sixteen, 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:50.280 seventeen eighteen. I think Ricky Parker Ricky Fletcher was eighteen 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:56.520 nineteen years old, and so we were proteges of Revelation Funk, 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.640 which you know, James played keyboards and they were all 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:03.359 they were all like about four years older than us. 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.600 So James played keyboards insane background because he didn't consider 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:11.160 himself a lead singer right, and they had this lead 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:14.359 singer called named Bernard Lost and he's still back and 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:18.040 acting now. Bernard Lost him to this day could sing 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.119 me under this, under this, my desk over here, this 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.400 this boy really what is you're talking about? Going from 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:28.880 natural effortlessly up into your foss He had that back, 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:31.960 he had that down back then, tall lanky brother and 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:34.520 like a dance of red dance and sing the same time. 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:37.400 And it was like, I mean, they were funky. Revelation 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:38.520 Funk was funky. 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:38.919 You know. 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.960 Wait a minute, Okay, so what's the name that's the 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:43.840 group that James Ingram was in that he was playing 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:44.399 keyboards and. 0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:47.280 Revelation God, damn it, damn it, damn it, damn the 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:49.520 ones from U Dolomite. 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:54.080 Yeah, weren't they movie movie? 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:54.359 Yeah? 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:57.400 Yeah, yeah, okay, because they came out here. They came 0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:00.760 out here. Bernard never came out here because he Lord 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:03.440 called him back to the church, fortunately, because there was 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:07.040 some crazy stuff that was happening. But they had this 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:10.359 cat named Woochie Wayne Arnold that came out. Wayne was 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:18.840 bad too. I don't know what he means ARNOLDI So 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.880 we were like nobody call. But they came, they came 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:26.840 out here, and then they only stayed together out here 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:30.359 about a year and a half, uh maybe two years 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:32.879 or so, and then they broke up and James stayed 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:36.720 out Dap the drummers stayed out t Tucker the bass 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:41.040 players stayed out here, so you know. And then for James, 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:45.000 arrest was his He started working with Ray Charles and 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:46.919 a bunch of other people and stuff, and you know, 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:48.040 in the studio and stuff. 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:49.919 It was cool just to get this straight. 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.960 James Ingram sounded like that at fifteen years old. 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:55.719 No, nothing has ever changed. 0:24:56.320 --> 0:24:58.600 Well, he was about when I first met and he 0:24:58.680 --> 0:25:01.119 was nineteen because he was about years older than me. 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:06.040 And uh yeah, I mean he had to all that 0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:10.560 stuff down hard, it's like, but but he didn't develop 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:13.880 it and and really kind of take it out where 0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:16.800 it's supposed to be until, you know, until he got 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:17.840 it until he went solo. 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:22.879 So well, one more thing, so if you were friends 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:27.560 with James, were you at all in proximity of his 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:30.199 brother Philip at the time when Philip was developing a 0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.600 switch MH switch also has achron connections, correct. 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:37.720 Yeah, Philip Phillip was like Philip was his younger brother. 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:42.320 So Phillip's younger than me. And uh, Phillips group back 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:45.280 in Achron, uh man, what. 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:45.800 Was his name? 0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:47.920 I forget, I forget their name. The name we had, 0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:50.160 We had weird names back there. There was a group 0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:53.000 called Picket Fence. I don't know what that was about, 0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:55.760 but it was like, you know, but but Philip was 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:59.679 with Raw Soul, I think it was. And I mean 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:02.680 that Akron was an amazing place to grow up man. 0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:05.440 And the rubber was the rubber capital of the world 0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:08.879 at that time, so so middle class was thriving. It 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:11.280 was like you know, it was it was and you 0:26:11.359 --> 0:26:14.920 either did you either did music, you did you worked 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:18.000 in the rubber factory, or you were pimp one or 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:19.879 the other. You know that some cats tried to do 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:20.680 all three. 0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:24.280 All three, all three but rubbers. 0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:30.399 And I think the name of Phillips the group was 0:26:30.480 --> 0:26:32.920 raw so if I'm not mistaken, but yeah, Philip had 0:26:32.920 --> 0:26:34.320 a great voice and everything. 0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:36.680 And and when they came out with Switch, I didn't 0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:38.439 even have a deal at that time. We were I 0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:41.359 was talking to l about that just the other day, 0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:44.919 because every time I listened to L, I hear Bobby, 0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:48.320 you know what I'm saying, and it's just it's crazy. 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:52.200 And uh so they came out, and you know it 0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:56.160 was like Eddie Flewell and the trumpet player, Eddie and I. 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:58.320 Eddie and I went to grade school, junior high, and 0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:02.199 graduated high school together. So when they came out, I 0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:04.440 was I would go. You know, I heard they were 0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:07.080 coming out and bringing them out, and so I went 0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:08.960 and hung out with them at the studio. You know, 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:13.119 while they were while they were calling, I called it, 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:15.320 I call your name or something like that, and I 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.040 would just sit there and all just listening to Bobby. 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:21.359 He could do that because I think it was his 0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:24.119 false but that wasn't his false. That was that was 0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:26.879 his natural voice, just like I was listening to Elle 0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:31.160 the other night. Elle's false is his natural voice. That's 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:35.120 his natural voice, right, So you know it's it's it's 0:27:35.160 --> 0:27:37.480 you know, it was amazing. It was amazing as far 0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:40.879 as I was concerned. So, yeah, Philip and and and Eddie, 0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:43.320 Yeah came out when Switch came out. 0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:46.240 Question, I do remember. 0:27:46.640 --> 0:27:50.879 I think I remember during one of the interviews with 0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:53.840 Don Carneli's on Soul Train where you talked about you 0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:55.520 were actually dancing on the show. 0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:58.760 First is that true. Were y'all just joking with each other. 0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:01.240 I was never a soul drained dancer. 0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:03.680 Okay, okay, okay, damn. 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:06.440 I thought I heard okay there because because it was 0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:08.439 said it said, it was said with a laugh, so 0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:09.800 I was like, wait, I don't know if he's serious 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:12.840 or not, but okay, I knew if that was true. 0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:16.639 I was dating. Uh this this lady that worked for 0:28:16.720 --> 0:28:19.879 down and there at the Soul Tirain Dance Studios Studios 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:21.280 in the office, in the front. 0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:22.600 Office, Pam Brown. 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:26.320 No, no, no, this is her names any cunning? 0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:30.440 Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait 0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:33.760 a minute. Jesus Christ, I can't believe I'm talking to 0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:34.160 you right now. 0:28:34.160 --> 0:28:37.080 How are you you've no, no, no, no, no, no no. 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:37.919 It just hit me. 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:44.680 You literally have christened a human being with my all 0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:45.760 time favorite name. 0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:47.920 I read about this and ride on. You have a 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:49.280 daughter named Rainy Days. 0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:52.320 Rainy Days d a z rather yo. 0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:54.120 When I read that ship when I was ten years old, 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:55.360 I'm like, I'm gonna have a girl and I'm the 0:28:55.440 --> 0:28:59.200 name of Rainy Days, Like it just wow. 0:28:58.800 --> 0:28:59.560 That's crazy. 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:03.560 Her mom, you know, eventually became my wife. She's the 0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:08.000 mother and my two older daughters. But when when Rainie 0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:11.040 was born, Rainie was the only only child that I 0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:14.160 didn't see come out, you know, because I was I 0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:17.080 was on the road. I had my oldest darted with me. 0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:19.120 She was like a year and a half at the time, 0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:23.840 and so her mom was so huge. I was like, look, 0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:26.240 I'm gonna take I'm gonna take Lakeiva. My oldest daughter's 0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:29.720 name is Lakiva, you know, which was the name let 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:33.120 Kiva k I v E. Which is a name, which 0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:35.560 is the name I made up when I was nineteen 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:37.440 years old. I used to go to Kent State for 0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:40.360 a minute, and like, I used to walk past Kiva Hall, 0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:44.960 this hall called Kiva Hall, and I say, every morning 0:29:45.000 --> 0:29:47.880 i'm walking to my first class, I say, wow, Kiva. 0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:50.720 Kiva would be a beautiful name for a little girl. 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:57.360 But I had a love on the front of Lucky. 0:29:56.400 --> 0:30:01.960 That is so black. You got all the names correct, Bill, 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:02.680 I got it. 0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:03.280 I got it. 0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:13.800 Anything. Bill, and my friend Lafonte and Quest. 0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:17.040 Got you so like. 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:17.640 But like. 0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:21.600 I took Lakeiva out on the road with me because 0:30:21.840 --> 0:30:24.600 her mom was so huge. I just wanted her to 0:30:24.640 --> 0:30:29.480 concentrate on being pregnant, not not having so she was 0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:33.240 having to take care of my one and half kids. 0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:35.560 So I took my daughter out on the road with 0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:38.040 me so we would we would work at the time Shalamar, 0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:42.640 we were working Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday off, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:47.560 So Thursday I finished the show. Monday, I mean Sunday rather, 0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:50.560 I finished the show. Then Monday morning me and Kiva 0:30:50.600 --> 0:30:52.640 would jump on the plane fly back here to l 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:53.840 a sit there. 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:54.320 You know. 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:56.400 I take her to the beach walker on the sand, 0:30:56.480 --> 0:30:59.200 you know, a whole thing, trying to make that baby drop, 0:30:59.280 --> 0:31:02.880 you know what I'm saying. And after after about three 0:31:02.920 --> 0:31:05.040 weeks or so, going back and forth, back and forth, 0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.560 I was like wiped out. So we were near Ohio 0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:10.520 and I called her and I said, you know, how 0:31:10.520 --> 0:31:13.640 do you feel? She said, it feels you know. I said, look, 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:15.880 me and Kiva are going to go to my mom's 0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:18.920 house and just chill. So I went to my mom's 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:21.720 house and said enough. We got there on Monday and 0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:25.280 like Tuesday or Wednesday, she had the baby right so 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:28.280 named her, named her after her mom. Her mom's name 0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:32.480 was Raining, and so my partner and partner mine was out. 0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:34.400 I got him a job working with the group. When 0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:36.520 when when I was with the group and stuff. So 0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:39.080 one of my best partners, so you know, he was 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:40.920 out on the road with her, and like we were 0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:44.600 sitting in my in either his room in my room, 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:56.680 and like he said, so, uh. 0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:53.040 I can tell you this is already going to be 0:31:53.080 --> 0:31:53.880 my favorite interview. 0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:54.080 Man. 0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:02.120 I feel like member of the the bank. 0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:09.680 Howard you were, he said, And I and and he said, so, 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:12.960 you know your name the baby Rainie had the baby? 0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:16.080 You said, yeah, said what, so, what's you gonna name her? 0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:20.000 I took the times. What are you gonna name her Rainie? 0:32:20.600 --> 0:32:23.800 After my you know? Said what what's the middle name 0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:27.040 gonna be? Sid? I was thinking about. 0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:33.560 Days the other story. 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:38.560 She sees his interview think that she thinks that I 0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:42.160 was drunk or something, when I mean the whole time. 0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:43.280 You was talking, I was just thinking. 0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:45.600 I was, like, I hope Howard remembers all the stories 0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:47.960 of how how his kids were born, because not for nothing, 0:32:48.040 --> 0:32:50.520 especially the girls. My dad used to call me every 0:32:50.560 --> 0:32:52.360 year of my life up until he got like eighty 0:32:52.640 --> 0:32:55.480 and tell me on my birthday, like how my conception 0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:57.080 of how I was born? And it's just it's just 0:32:57.120 --> 0:32:59.280 a love about the conception, the conception. 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:01.959 I'm sorry, how was exception? 0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:06.120 But the day I was born? Yeah, but yes, say 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:08.240 those stories, tell them stories people loved. 0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:11.840 I was going to say there was a ten year 0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:15.080 old reading write on magazine that it was really really 0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:18.000 hell impressed with that name. At the time, I was like, Wow, 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:23.000 that's the greatest name ever. Raindy Days. All right, I'm 0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:26.600 gonna have Raindy Days two point oh. All right, So 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:27.840 it's it's still in the cars for. 0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:31.040 She hated it when she was in grade school, but 0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:33.280 when she got into junior high and in high school 0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:36.840 and then all that time adulthood, she loves it. She 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:37.760 loves her name, you. 0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:41.360 Know, nice nice is she in the Does does she 0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:42.200 have musical talent? 0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:43.920 Does she? I have no clue what. 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:47.640 She came out of schools, came out of high school, 0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:50.240 wanted to do, you know, wanted to get into the 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:52.440 business and stuff, and so like, you know, I gave 0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:55.840 her my advice and she, you know, got herself a 0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:59.920 little job started, you know, putting putting together. Her demo 0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:02.760 was about three or four demos, three or four songs, 0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.160 and she had got her head shots together and then 0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:08.919 got herself a deal with this company called notting Hill. 0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:13.480 You know, notting Hill was in la and as well 0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:16.600 as in London, you know, in the UK. So she 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:19.120 was They were working on an album together, and then 0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:22.160 halfway through the album she comes to me she says, 0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:24.879 you know, Dad, I'm really not into this. I said, 0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:28.319 what do you mean into it? She said, I'm more 0:34:28.400 --> 0:34:32.840 interested in what I'm gonna wear than the music, you 0:34:32.880 --> 0:34:35.480 know what I'm saying. So he was into the fashion 0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:39.120 for Unfortunately, the people at at at notting Hill were 0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:41.640 cool and they had put a single out in uh 0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:44.040 in the UK that did fairly well. But you know, 0:34:44.600 --> 0:34:47.120 she wasn't she wasn't into it, so they let her 0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:51.120 go and then she got a position with Vera Wang 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:55.200 company you know, did that for. 0:34:55.080 --> 0:34:57.080 A while now, So she lived in London for a while. 0:34:57.520 --> 0:34:59.239 She went to London. She didn't live there, but she 0:34:59.280 --> 0:35:00.000 spent a lot of time. 0:35:00.239 --> 0:35:09.040 Okay, I see, I see, Okay, I do want to know. Okay, 0:35:09.080 --> 0:35:13.040 first of all, before you get into your entry, do 0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:17.440 you know exactly what the situation was that caused Jerald 0:35:17.520 --> 0:35:19.239 Brown to leave Shalamar. 0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:23.280 That was your vacancy, because. 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:27.200 Even with those first two records, I always felt like 0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:30.320 I had, you know, the first two albums as a 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:33.640 kid or whatever. I had the Uptown Festival forty five 0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:39.200 and what not, and it's like, I never thought his 0:35:39.360 --> 0:35:43.239 voice blended in with that group. Well even even take that, 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:44.719 I mean, take that to the Bank, of course was 0:35:44.719 --> 0:35:48.360 a classic song, no matter what. But I never felt 0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:51.360 like his voice fit into He was like he was 0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:54.080 like a grown adult, and I always felt like Jody 0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:56.480 and Jeffrey represented like the kids. 0:35:57.280 --> 0:35:59.120 While he was like a proper adult or whatever. 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:03.520 But what's the situation that caused him to vacate the group? 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:07.080 I don't, I don't. I don't know the specific situation 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:11.000 exactly what happened. I think there was some stuff, some 0:36:11.080 --> 0:36:15.160 questions about management maybe or about whatever, because you know, 0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:17.840 Gerald had been been in the business for a while 0:36:17.920 --> 0:36:21.600 with Soul Trained, with the Soul Trained gang and coming 0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:25.880 from coming from Cincinnati, and that first Uptown Festival album, 0:36:26.000 --> 0:36:28.359 the first that wasn't Gerald, that was this guy named 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:30.200 Gary Mumford. So they had. 0:36:30.640 --> 0:36:33.759 Oh, okay, they. 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:35.920 Had two lead singers before before me, right, So it 0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:41.680 was Gary Mumford on Uptown Festival and then Jerald Brown. 0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:44.440 Uptown Festival was one of those things where, you know, 0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:47.399 back in the day with disco and stuff. That's why 0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:50.800 I was never really a big fan of disco because 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:55.319 I always thought it was pretty fabricated music. And you know, 0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:58.000 I was more into the into the band and the 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:00.360 real people that did it, because you do you know, 0:37:00.400 --> 0:37:04.719 they would put together, you know, a song with with 0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:08.719 studio musicians, studio vocalists, throw it out there, see if 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:11.080 it made some noise. If it made some noise, then 0:37:11.080 --> 0:37:13.040 they go and put a group together. And that's how 0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:17.440 Salomar basically, you know formed. So it was like Gary 0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:21.920 Mumford on Uptown Festival and then uh, and then he 0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:24.319 I think he went back to the church too, if 0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:28.600 I'm not mistaken. And and then Gerald Brown came in. 0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:30.759 They took him from you know, because it was Don 0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:36.640 Cornelius and uh, Griffy right, you know, at first it 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:39.640 was Soul Trained Records, you know what I mean. And 0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:42.799 so they brought Jerald Brown in and then they did 0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:44.880 take that to the bank. They were out in the 0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:48.680 middle of a promotional tour. I was working with this cat, uh, 0:37:49.440 --> 0:37:53.640 Jeffrey Bowen at the time because I was with a group. 0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:56.680 I was with a group down that was formed people, 0:37:57.840 --> 0:38:02.360 that was formed by the People, and uh mat Jeffrey Bourn. 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:05.400 Jeffrey Bowen produced a song for You by the Temptations, right. 0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:09.640 Yep, and a bunch of Colin did Bonnie Pointer was 0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:10.319 his lady and. 0:38:10.320 --> 0:38:10.959 Here was his wife? 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:14.239 Right dom Bonnie Point was his wife? And wait did 0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:15.440 he did he produce? 0:38:15.760 --> 0:38:15.920 Uh? 0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:19.040 I think he co produced with George Clinton two songs 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:20.960 on guitarist. 0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:23.040 Eddie Hazel Eddie Hazel's. 0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:25.600 Record, We Were, We Were, Well, we Were. He had 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:30.280 hired me because I I was this girl, Tammy Gibson 0:38:30.320 --> 0:38:34.080 who used to sing for Stevie in Wonder Love. She 0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:36.400 was looking and she came looking for me because I 0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:38.680 was with a group that ended up We ended up 0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:41.479 overseas for about a year and a half. This show 0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:45.200 group called Beverly Hills, right and the people at Mavericks 0:38:45.200 --> 0:38:48.759 Flat down in the Crenshaw District, John Daniels and and 0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:52.600 Alonzo Daniels his brother. They put together show groups and stuff. 0:38:52.640 --> 0:38:55.240 So this was one of the groups that they put together. 0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:59.680 We ended up touring overseas for about, you know, about 0:38:59.719 --> 0:39:01.400 little less than a year and a half or so, 0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:02.680 and I was making like two. 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:05.319 Point fifty three years this around. 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:09.560 This is like seventy seven seventy seven, because I brought 0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:13.680 seventy eight in seventy seven. Out the end of seventy seven, 0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:16.640 I was in Helsinki, Finland, which was the first gig 0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:19.440 that we did. And then we went to Geneva, Switzerland, 0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:22.360 and I read that because I brought we brought seventy 0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:26.839 eight nineteen seventy eight in in Geneva, Switzerland, and then 0:39:26.880 --> 0:39:31.000 we went on to ben the Dorm, Spain, Santa Pez, France. 0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:33.200 We're all over the place. I was making two point 0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:36.040 fifty three hundred a week, you know what I'm saying. 0:39:36.080 --> 0:39:38.759 But I was having them ball I was like twenty two, 0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:40.120 about twenty two years old. 0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:44.360 Again, I'm pulling out my inflation calculator just to see, 0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:49.520 just to see. So when you're saying the show group, 0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:52.919 you're saying in terms of like, uh, you guys, because 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:54.600 I think heat Wave was sort of in the same 0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:57.400 situation where they were perform more on like army bases 0:39:57.480 --> 0:39:58.960 or clubs of the day. 0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:00.000 Is that the same situation. 0:40:00.840 --> 0:40:03.000 No, we never did army bases. But when I say 0:40:03.120 --> 0:40:05.840 show group, I mean like a top forty group. You 0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:09.480 know what I'm saying we did everything from Disco Infernal 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:10.840 to Mandy you know what. 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:12.880 Today. 0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:15.880 So yeah, and it's like you you know, did you 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:18.560 know Afternoon Delight all that kind of stuff. You know, 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:20.960 it was like, you know, it was my stuff, old 0:40:21.000 --> 0:40:24.200 stuff exactly. We didn't do any original stuff. It was 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:26.640 just and it was like, you know, so. 0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:29.680 But wait, by the way, guys, two point fifty back 0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:34.480 in nineteen seventy seven was one thousand, one eighty seven 0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:37.760 and eighty six cents by today. 0:40:38.000 --> 0:40:40.720 That was that was good, That was cool money. 0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:43.239 I wish I would have felt that. Then I came 0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:46.000 back a year and a half with about five hundred dollars. 0:40:46.000 --> 0:40:46.480 That was this. 0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:52.640 But so, you know, so like I came back and 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:56.400 and all the Mavericks Flat was was a really interesting 0:40:56.480 --> 0:41:00.560 place where on the weekend it was a club and 0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:03.080 on the week days that's where we rehearsed. We would 0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:06.160 rehearse the band, and anytime we had a show that 0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:10.000 we wanted to try out on people at a live audience, 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:13.040 we would play at Mavericks Friday and Saturday the night 0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:15.880 and so it was like, you know, I mean, Mavericks 0:41:15.960 --> 0:41:18.080 was interesting in that you could look out in the 0:41:18.120 --> 0:41:21.800 audience at any time. Shaka Khan would be sitting out there, 0:41:21.920 --> 0:41:24.920 or Lionel Richie when he was with the Commodores, or 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:27.200 Richard Pryor hung out there all the time. And it 0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:30.240 was it was just it was just a great place 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:34.040 to like cut your teeth as far as like you know, uh, 0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:36.399 the way that you do your show, the whole thing, 0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:41.320 and uh. And it was located Crenchhall right Crenshawn Stocker, 0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:43.600 right on the corner of Crenshaw on Stocker. 0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:46.279 So this point in Crenshaw, because I also know that 0:41:46.600 --> 0:41:47.800 it was Total Experience. 0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:51.040 Also a club on Crenshaw as well, so right up 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:51.480 the street. 0:41:52.160 --> 0:41:54.239 As far as the black clubs are concerned, you're saying 0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:56.800 at Maverick Flats and Total Experience, and like where. 0:41:56.640 --> 0:42:01.920 Were the other nightlife for black people to go to? 0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:07.560 Strawberry Hill was a club there. I don't know, a 0:42:07.600 --> 0:42:10.160 whole bunch of clubs around there, bit because I hung 0:42:10.160 --> 0:42:11.239 at Mavericks all the time. 0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:11.560 You know. 0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:13.520 It was like I had a key to Mavericks at 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:16.080 one time. So you know, that was my that was 0:42:16.120 --> 0:42:18.399 my hang that was my hanging spot, you know. So 0:42:19.040 --> 0:42:21.759 there's other guys in Dolls. I think was a was 0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:23.359 a club, but I think that was a little bit 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:26.400 before I got there, you know, guys and downs, But 0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:29.400 I'm not really familiar with the whole bunch of the 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:30.200 clubs over there. 0:42:30.360 --> 0:42:33.120 So you're saying that if you if it's nineteen seventy seven, 0:42:33.239 --> 0:42:38.440 seventy eight, seventy nine and you're a black professional, chances 0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:44.360 are like you're hanging in on Crenshaw Boulevard at a club. 0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:47.319 So we weren't really doing like West Hollywood back then, 0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:49.080 or no. 0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:51.640 I didn't do a lot of West Hollywood back then, 0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:53.839 because that was like I got to I got out 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:58.160 here in LA in nineteen seventy six, you know, and 0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:01.800 so I hooked up with the people with Mavericks about 0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:05.080 to about two months after I got out here, you know, 0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:07.920 and we and John Daniels told me what he what, 0:43:07.920 --> 0:43:10.279 what he was, what he wanted to do. He had 0:43:10.280 --> 0:43:12.440 a he had a bunch of show groups, and one 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:15.120 of his main show groups was this group called the 0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:19.759 Love Machine. It was like seven seven fine, Fine with 0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:25.080 Kathleen Bradley, who was the first black model on The 0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:25.879 Price is Right. 0:43:26.000 --> 0:43:26.560 She was in. 0:43:30.800 --> 0:43:34.200 From Friday, Yeah, she was in that's what she shut 0:43:34.280 --> 0:43:47.560 up Bilt and Uh, he's done. He's done over there. 0:43:47.920 --> 0:43:50.480 It's like man. So yeah, she she was in. She 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:54.399 was in the Love Machine and six other beautiful women. 0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:56.560 They and they went all around the world. When I 0:43:56.600 --> 0:43:59.800 first went down there, the cat T Tucker that played 0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:04.040 base for Revelation Funk like I said at that time. 0:44:04.320 --> 0:44:06.480 By that time they were broken up and T was 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:10.680 playing for the Love Machine. And I called T one day. 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:11.920 I said, I got his number. 0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:12.480 I called him. 0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:14.319 I said, Yo, Man, I'm in town. Blah blah blah. 0:44:14.320 --> 0:44:17.440 I said, man, come down to Maverick slat. I'm rehearsing today. 0:44:17.480 --> 0:44:19.840 You know, I'm playing with this group called Love Machine. 0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:22.720 So me and my cousin went down to Maverick flat 0:44:22.719 --> 0:44:26.319 and stuff, and they were rehearsing at that time to 0:44:26.400 --> 0:44:31.120 do a showcase that night for Tom Jones, because Tom 0:44:31.200 --> 0:44:34.799 Jones wanted them to open up for him. So you know, 0:44:35.040 --> 0:44:37.239 that was how that whole thing came about. And then 0:44:37.280 --> 0:44:39.839 we started putting the group and stuff together. But I 0:44:39.920 --> 0:44:44.239 was working there, went overseas, came back from there. We 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:46.760 broke up. The group. Beverly Hills broke up after about 0:44:46.760 --> 0:44:48.840 a year little less than a year and a half 0:44:48.960 --> 0:44:51.839 over in England and came back and I started kicking 0:44:51.880 --> 0:44:55.160 around LA and then that's when I hooked up with 0:44:56.200 --> 0:45:00.000 Jeffrey Bowen, you know, to he was doing this out, 0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:05.080 this solo album on Eddie Hazel, you know, and he's. 0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:07.160 Please describe with what Eddie Hazel was like. 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:11.760 Besides George Clinton, I really haven't gotten a straight story 0:45:11.800 --> 0:45:13.040 about Eddie Hazel. 0:45:13.800 --> 0:45:14.120 He was. 0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.840 He was an interesting cat in that you really couldn't 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:21.920 get a good feel for Eddie because he was he was. 0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:24.120 He was high a lot of times, you know, he 0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:27.920 was he was like, you know, an amazing guitar player, 0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:32.520 maggot brains. That's Eddie, you know, right, Eddie Hazel. And 0:45:33.080 --> 0:45:36.240 but he was he I mean, I I just smoke. 0:45:36.320 --> 0:45:37.640 We but he smoked weed. 0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:47.440 You know, I don't know what that means. You go back, yes, 0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:49.239 you so. 0:45:50.080 --> 0:45:52.399 But but he was cool, I mean real cool, real 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:53.000 cool brother. 0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:56.840 But so you're saying that Eddie Hazel once potentially had 0:45:56.920 --> 0:45:59.319 a deal on Motown Records that fell through. 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:03.160 M hm. I don't know if it fell through because 0:46:03.680 --> 0:46:07.080 they were they you know, Eddie, Jeffrey was producing it 0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:11.719 and then we were working because after I came, like 0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:14.200 I said, Tammy came and got me because she wanted 0:46:14.239 --> 0:46:16.520 me to do this. She was she was contracting the 0:46:16.840 --> 0:46:20.520 backgrounds or that they were doing. So I went in 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:24.200 and did the sessions. Me, Tammy, this girl Kathy James, 0:46:24.239 --> 0:46:26.200 I forget I think that was the name, and we 0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:29.200 went in and did the session. And then after after 0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:31.480 we got done with the tunes and stuff, Jeffrey Cone 0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:34.160 Jeffrey Bowen came to me. He said, you know, man, 0:46:34.239 --> 0:46:36.520 I love your vocals. I love it. This is going 0:46:36.600 --> 0:46:40.000 to be a self contained situation, so you know, I'd 0:46:40.040 --> 0:46:41.560 love for you to be a part of It's going 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:43.640 to be you, Tammy and the girl that we were 0:46:43.640 --> 0:46:46.680 working with. And I said, cool, you know that's that's great. 0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:48.759 He said, I can get you in. He said, we 0:46:48.800 --> 0:46:51.440 can start working on the contracts, you know, but I 0:46:51.480 --> 0:46:55.200 can get you into the union tomorrow, right And I 0:46:55.960 --> 0:46:59.359 said cool, okay, So the next day I joined after 0:46:59.840 --> 0:47:02.239 you know what I'm saying, and all the checks and 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:06.280 we started and it was like I wasn't contracted yet, 0:47:06.480 --> 0:47:10.600 you know. So if you're an uncontracted artist, you have 0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:12.920 to get paid from the time you walk into the 0:47:12.960 --> 0:47:16.200 studio the time you walk out of the studio. So 0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:19.680 Jeffrey would book book the time for like eight o'clock, 0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:22.360 you know, in the evening. He wouldn't show up for 0:47:22.440 --> 0:47:26.239 whatever reasons, I don't know, until midnight, and then we 0:47:26.239 --> 0:47:29.480 would work till about, you know, about four or five 0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:32.799 o'clock in the morning, So that's like nine hours you know, 0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:34.680 at about one hundred and thirty hundred and forty whatever 0:47:34.760 --> 0:47:37.240 the scale was at that time, if you were doing 0:47:37.360 --> 0:47:42.320 a solo or you know, inflation inflation count, it's. 0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:43.600 A lot of money, bill, it's a lot of money. 0:47:43.640 --> 0:47:45.800 It's a lot of money right there. So that sounded 0:47:45.840 --> 0:47:46.080 like that. 0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:49.040 Yeah, So like you know, but then after about working 0:47:49.120 --> 0:47:52.200 about a couple of months, you know, started getting kind 0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:54.560 of flaky, you know what I'm saying, kind of shaky 0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:57.719 as far as like the checks we weren't reflecting the 0:47:57.760 --> 0:48:01.720 time that we you know, that we were in the studio. 0:48:02.320 --> 0:48:04.560 And so then I called a meet. I took my lady. 0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:07.719 I took my lady to work. She worked at you know, 0:48:07.920 --> 0:48:11.680 like I said, for dying down at the SOULDI trained 0:48:11.760 --> 0:48:15.239 dance studios up in West Hollywood, and I took her, 0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:17.000 dropped her off of work, told her, I'm going to 0:48:17.040 --> 0:48:19.879 the Motown building and have a meeting. Right, So I'm 0:48:19.920 --> 0:48:23.480 sitting in a meeting on the fifteenth floor, and I'm like, 0:48:24.000 --> 0:48:26.359 you know, y'all giving me the motown running around blah 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:28.520 blah blah blah blah blah blah, you know, blah blah, 0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:32.520 getting all this stuff off my chest. And the phone rings, right, 0:48:32.880 --> 0:48:36.560 and this Angelo Bond was his co producer. Angelo answers 0:48:36.600 --> 0:48:38.919 the phone and he looks at me and he says, 0:48:39.440 --> 0:48:42.279 it's for you. I said, it's for me. I said, 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:44.440 if it's my lady, tell her I'll call her. I'll 0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:45.080 call her back. 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:45.359 Right. 0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:48.600 He said, well, not a lady, and it sounds like 0:48:48.640 --> 0:48:51.160 it's a long distance. That was before cell phones. When 0:48:51.440 --> 0:48:54.680 you hear the crackling on the phone, right, he. 0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:57.720 Said, you know it's nine dollars a minute, he said. 0:48:58.080 --> 0:48:59.840 He said, it's not a lady, it's a guy, and 0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:02.200 it sounds like it's long distance. So I take the 0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:08.080 phone and it's Jeffrey Daniel. Right. They were in New 0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:11.080 York at the time, in the middle of this promotional 0:49:11.160 --> 0:49:14.800 tour whatever it was that they got into an argument about. 0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:18.360 I never he said, he told me some I forget 0:49:18.480 --> 0:49:20.840 exactly what it was. Because I wasn't one interested in 0:49:20.960 --> 0:49:23.880 why with this was happening. It's like, what are we 0:49:23.960 --> 0:49:27.160 getting to as far as like this phone call and 0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:30.160 he said that you know that Jerald Brown that Jerald said, Hey, 0:49:30.160 --> 0:49:32.080 when y'all can see it my way, give me a call. 0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:36.080 And he jumps on the plane and leaves. Oh, they're 0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:38.839 in the middle of a promotional tour you did, and 0:49:38.880 --> 0:49:41.600 so like he says, I know, you know because they 0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:45.320 it's Mavericks Flat. All the soul trained people used to 0:49:45.400 --> 0:49:48.200 come down to Mavericks Flat all the time. I first 0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:52.120 I first met Jeffrey and Jody before Shallamar at Mavericks Flat, 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:54.520 right and say, so they used to come there and 0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:56.600 they used to show They used to see the show 0:49:57.120 --> 0:50:00.439 that I did with Beverly Hills there right, Well, there's 0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:03.520 three degrees of separation. That's crazy, you know what I'm saying. 0:50:03.600 --> 0:50:08.560 So they saw the show. Jeffrey before before Shala Maar resisted, 0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:11.080 Jeffrey had told me, man, I love your vocals. I said, 0:50:11.480 --> 0:50:13.560 I love your dancing man. You and Jodie. I used 0:50:13.560 --> 0:50:16.640 to watch them before I even left Ohio on soul train. 0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:21.080 I see them dancing. Wow, that's great, that's great. So 0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:23.640 he says, I know we you know we I know 0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:26.239 you know that we formed Shalamar and blah blah blah. 0:50:26.320 --> 0:50:27.959 We got to take that to the bank out there 0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:30.640 when in the middle of promotional tour, we want to 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:33.239 offer you an equal position in the group, you know, 0:50:33.480 --> 0:50:37.399 as lead singer. And I said, I said, well, okay, 0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:40.200 and he told me all this stuff and then he says, 0:50:40.400 --> 0:50:42.400 you're at the Motown building, right, I said yeah. He 0:50:42.400 --> 0:50:44.680 said where are you. I'm up on the fifteenth floor. 0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:47.799 He said, well, so large offices are down on the 0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:51.520 ninth floor in the same building. And we talked and 0:50:51.560 --> 0:50:55.160 we already talked to Dick Griffin and he he's waiting 0:50:55.160 --> 0:50:57.239 for you to, you know, for you to get in 0:50:57.280 --> 0:50:59.359 touch with him. So like, you know, so he talked 0:50:59.400 --> 0:51:02.040 a little about longer. I get off the phone and 0:51:02.120 --> 0:51:05.560 I tell Jeffrey Bowen and I tell Angel Obaum what 0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:05.840 to do? 0:51:06.120 --> 0:51:07.520 No, I said what? 0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:10.799 And then the Angel says, man, Chellamar is just a 0:51:10.840 --> 0:51:13.280 fly by night disco group. They'll never amount to anything. 0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:16.080 And then you don't want to get involved with Solar 0:51:16.160 --> 0:51:19.520 that you're you're you got the potential to be with Motown, 0:51:19.640 --> 0:51:22.160 you know. And then Jeffrey started talking some stuff, and 0:51:22.280 --> 0:51:24.600 when things like that happen, I have a tendency just 0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:27.120 to kind of sit back, and ever since I was 0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:29.520 a kid, if I did, if I had to think, 0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:32.040 you know, I want to sit back and take in 0:51:32.200 --> 0:51:35.680 everything that they're saying. So I'm listening, and when they 0:51:35.680 --> 0:51:41.480 get done, I said, well, my car is parked on 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:43.840 the street. I need to go put some money in 0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:44.440 the middle. 0:51:44.680 --> 0:51:45.759 No. 0:51:47.200 --> 0:51:50.640 I went down to the ninth floor, got in, talked 0:51:50.640 --> 0:51:54.480 to Dick. This was on a Friday, right, and and 0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:58.880 Dick reiterated what Jeffrey the offer Jeffrey made and uh, 0:51:58.960 --> 0:52:02.000 I said, I told him. I said, no, I'm really interested. 0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:04.560 I said, but I got to give these people upstairs 0:52:04.560 --> 0:52:07.800 a chance to rectify themselves, because even though I didn't 0:52:07.840 --> 0:52:11.719 have contracts, my words was still you know, worth the 0:52:11.800 --> 0:52:15.600 word contract. Right. So I called them and told them, look, 0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:18.760 I'm gonna be home. If you guys want to rectify 0:52:18.840 --> 0:52:22.600 this thing, let me know, call me, right And so 0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:27.200 all night Friday night nobody called. Saturday morning, I called 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:30.880 Dick and I went over to his house, watched the 0:52:30.960 --> 0:52:34.280 videotape of a Shalamar show, and then I was sitting 0:52:34.320 --> 0:52:36.560 in this rocking chair, right. I remember I was watching 0:52:36.560 --> 0:52:38.279 the show, was sitting this rock and said. The show 0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:41.240 goes off, and Dick says, well, sing something. 0:52:41.280 --> 0:52:41.400 You know. 0:52:41.480 --> 0:52:43.760 Jeffer and Joe to say, you're a great singer. Sing something. 0:52:43.840 --> 0:52:46.400 I said, I said, right here, I compel them, you know. 0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:49.040 He said yeah. And I said to myself, I said, well, lord, 0:52:49.120 --> 0:52:52.279 you know me and you so I broke in. I 0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:54.960 broke in the field of Fire by Peobo Bryce, I 0:52:55.080 --> 0:53:01.040 compella something that to me, you know, and yeah, And 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:04.960 he got to the first verse half the hook, and 0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:07.120 Dick says, okay, okay, okay, I'll be right back. He 0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:10.840 goes upstairs, comes back down. He has like goes in 0:53:10.880 --> 0:53:13.360 one pocket. He has some cash. He said, here's some cash, 0:53:13.440 --> 0:53:16.360 you know, leave which old lady pay some bills. He 0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:19.040 went in the other pocket and brought out an airline 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:21.600 ticket and that was pre nine to eleven. I could 0:53:21.680 --> 0:53:23.799 ride on your ticket. You know, I could ride up 0:53:24.160 --> 0:53:26.560 right on my head right, I could ride. You didn't 0:53:26.600 --> 0:53:28.960 have to have a specific name, he said, here's an 0:53:28.960 --> 0:53:31.439 airline ticket. You got to be on the red eye 0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:34.960 out tonight. Meet the group of New Jersey tomorrow, as 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:37.359 they moved from New York to New Jersey. He said, 0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:39.680 meet the group of New Jersey tomorrow, he said, because 0:53:40.040 --> 0:53:43.520 and go over the lift sync and the choreography of 0:53:43.640 --> 0:53:46.040 Take That to the Bank. He said, because Monday you 0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:49.359 got a TV show to do. And I'm like, you know, 0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:52.200 I'm like, you know, being from Ohio, think about Ohio? 0:53:52.320 --> 0:53:55.040 Is that the prereconsist As far as our being from 0:53:55.040 --> 0:53:57.400 a house, you got to be cool about everything, you 0:53:57.440 --> 0:54:01.280 know what I'm saying. So like, I'm like, okay, okay, 0:54:01.440 --> 0:54:03.080 you think you can handle it. Oh, sure I can 0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:05.920 handle Inside. I'm like, I got a job. 0:54:09.040 --> 0:54:11.600 Well, I would have asked, what was Dick Griffy? Like, Man, 0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:13.120 it's been about me. 0:54:15.360 --> 0:54:16.239 Let me add on to that. 0:54:16.280 --> 0:54:22.000 Fonte Howard, We've we've asked at least seven people this question, 0:54:22.719 --> 0:54:26.680 and they kind of glide by the situation. Okay, I know, 0:54:26.840 --> 0:54:30.080 I know the brother's not here right now, but can 0:54:30.160 --> 0:54:36.800 you give us a real, real in quotations, Dick Griffy's situation? 0:54:37.880 --> 0:54:42.719 Uh, He's Dick. Dick was was a very should I say, 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:49.120 complex character in certain ways, but very direct in other ways. 0:54:49.280 --> 0:54:53.040 And as far as like you know, he used a 0:54:53.080 --> 0:54:56.640 lot of under the thumb type of tactics to keep things, 0:54:57.000 --> 0:54:59.360 you know, in in tact as far as his so, 0:54:59.719 --> 0:55:02.239 but that was his thing, that was how that was 0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:07.839 where he came from. For instance, uh, for instance. 0:55:07.840 --> 0:55:10.840 All right, all right without without you compromising your position? 0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:17.520 Were there any buildings with balconies on them utilized. 0:55:18.920 --> 0:55:20.720 Office from nine to five? 0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:24.840 I don't think that happened with Dick, you know, with 0:55:24.920 --> 0:55:29.560 the five heartbeat situations, you know. But but I've heard 0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:34.080 of certain situations with other characters of who we won't 0:55:34.320 --> 0:55:37.239 you know, going to right now also doing that whole. 0:55:37.719 --> 0:55:39.919 But I don't think Dick ever ever did that type 0:55:39.960 --> 0:55:42.680 of thing. But he was, he was, he was you know, 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:45.040 he was a gangst gangster type of cat, you know. 0:55:45.120 --> 0:55:49.920 And and but he respected if you stood up for 0:55:50.040 --> 0:55:52.839 what you you know, stood for, you. 0:55:52.800 --> 0:55:56.839 Know, five minutes the first time you stuttered, huh five 0:55:56.840 --> 0:55:57.720 minutes we've been talking. 0:55:57.760 --> 0:56:00.920 It's the first time because because you want to be 0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:06.000 because respectful, Yeah, because you want to be because because 0:56:06.040 --> 0:56:09.080 I have I have much respect for it. Because Dick, 0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:12.440 thank god, you know, Dick was a vehicle that was 0:56:12.520 --> 0:56:15.080 chosen to get my foot in the door, you know 0:56:15.160 --> 0:56:17.560 what I'm saying. And and as long as you you know, 0:56:18.080 --> 0:56:19.719 once you get your foot in the door, it's up 0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:21.840 to you to put to open up the door and 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:26.120 get in there. So like, you know, I appreciate the 0:56:26.120 --> 0:56:30.480 the opportunity that Dick presented to me and and and 0:56:30.680 --> 0:56:34.879 respected him, you know, immensely, and and missing dearly now. 0:56:35.520 --> 0:56:38.560 But you know, I mean we had our drag knockdown, 0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:41.360 drag out fights, man, and and it was like, you know, 0:56:41.400 --> 0:56:44.080 when if I felt something, if I felt this was 0:56:44.160 --> 0:56:47.560 not the way that this should be, he really he 0:56:47.640 --> 0:56:51.000 really didn't like me going out and and and working 0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:55.399 with people like Quincy, working with people like uh other 0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:59.000 other producers and stuff, because then I can see, you know, 0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:01.959 how it was really supposed to be done, and. 0:57:01.880 --> 0:57:04.600 How and how the real business looked like. 0:57:04.760 --> 0:57:08.040 The business was supposed to be done. And he didn't 0:57:08.160 --> 0:57:09.640 like for me to do that, but I was going 0:57:09.680 --> 0:57:11.440 to do that. I went out and work with Stanley, 0:57:11.800 --> 0:57:15.040 when I work with George, you know, yeah, man, and 0:57:15.560 --> 0:57:19.080 all those and and like I said, Quincy and you know, 0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:22.960 so I could see how that whole thing was supposed 0:57:22.960 --> 0:57:26.120 to go down, you know. And as far as financially 0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:27.680 everything is concerned. 0:57:27.720 --> 0:57:29.560 So it's kind of like a you feel like it's 0:57:29.640 --> 0:57:32.000 kind of like a learning process that he was the 0:57:32.040 --> 0:57:34.280 beginning of the learning process, because I was wondering when 0:57:34.320 --> 0:57:36.440 you got excited about getting a job and everything, at 0:57:36.440 --> 0:57:38.640 that moment, you don't wonder, well, what do I have 0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:41.400 any say in the songs that we sang? And you know, 0:57:41.560 --> 0:57:43.880 like all the business stuff that, like in retrospect, you 0:57:43.920 --> 0:57:45.680 may have, but at the same time. 0:57:45.520 --> 0:57:46.640 You didn't have it at that time. 0:57:46.760 --> 0:57:49.400 Yeah, well, at first, at first, I didn't want to 0:57:49.440 --> 0:57:52.400 have any sale as far as we're concerned, because because 0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:54.960 my whole thing was like, I want to learn, I 0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:56.480 want to look at it. I'm not I don't want 0:57:56.480 --> 0:57:58.120 to come here and act like I know what I'm 0:57:58.160 --> 0:58:01.600 doing because I had never been in the recording a 0:58:01.640 --> 0:58:04.880 real recording studio at all up to that point, you know, 0:58:05.720 --> 0:58:08.480 like you know and and and Leon Silvers, you know, 0:58:08.720 --> 0:58:12.360 like you know, it was like a learning process. I 0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:15.600 saw how he worked, I saw how his uh, his 0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:22.360 crew work, his cruel writers, Will Shelby, Kevin Spencer, and 0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:24.680 I would sit back a lot of times. I was 0:58:24.720 --> 0:58:28.240 back the first song that I really participated on and 0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:32.600 in participated in writing and felt comfortable enough to present 0:58:32.640 --> 0:58:35.320 it to them as far as writing was concerned, was 0:58:35.360 --> 0:58:39.480 for the lover in you, you know, and so yeah, 0:58:39.600 --> 0:58:42.240 so like you know that was me and Dana Myers 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:44.960 and like so, I mean we had a thing where 0:58:44.960 --> 0:58:48.760 were reprint presented to the people to his his cruel, 0:58:48.840 --> 0:58:52.880 his stable writers and stuff, and they would say veto. 0:58:52.800 --> 0:58:53.280 You know or. 0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:57.520 So you know it was like it was it was 0:58:57.560 --> 0:59:01.120 a learning process for me. I didn't want to jumping there. 0:59:01.240 --> 0:59:02.800 I know, I want to write down. 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:06.240 I want a lesson that a lot of the youth here. 0:59:06.320 --> 0:59:07.320 So that's why I want you to tell. 0:59:07.680 --> 0:59:11.280 So let me let me ask them. So with So, 0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:13.240 your first album with is Big Fun? 0:59:13.400 --> 0:59:17.480 Correct, I got it? Okay? When I was the kids like, 0:59:17.520 --> 0:59:20.320 oh the Dolphin record, it. 0:59:20.320 --> 0:59:21.840 Would kill would killer? 0:59:21.880 --> 0:59:28.600 Wells, I thought there was dolphins too, are black? 0:59:30.480 --> 0:59:35.360 Actually actually there were barrels that we were sitting on 0:59:35.440 --> 0:59:37.320 and they're superimposed. 0:59:39.880 --> 0:59:40.360 Barrels. 0:59:40.400 --> 0:59:43.200 Okay, the classic moment. 0:59:43.880 --> 0:59:49.760 So with barrels, Okay, with Big Fun. Yeah, So walk 0:59:49.800 --> 0:59:54.280 us through the process of one. Like, by this point, 0:59:54.320 --> 0:59:56.720 when you're doing Big Fun, how long have you been 0:59:56.760 --> 1:00:00.480 in the group, what's your jelling situation? 1:00:00.680 --> 1:00:03.360 Now complete disclosure. 1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:06.440 I'm probably the only human being on earth that has 1:00:06.600 --> 1:00:12.760 not seen unsung. I've heard it might have been a 1:00:12.800 --> 1:00:16.360 tense episode. I don't know, So I'm kind of asking 1:00:16.400 --> 1:00:20.160 you this, you know, from the total naivete of not 1:00:20.320 --> 1:00:24.000 knowing what the situation was, But what was how long 1:00:24.120 --> 1:00:28.400 was it before after that New Jersey first gig with him, 1:00:28.480 --> 1:00:31.840 until you started recording Big Fun And what was the 1:00:31.960 --> 1:00:37.840 gelling situation? Like with you, Jeffrey and Jody. 1:00:37.800 --> 1:00:39.880 It was, you know because when we first when I 1:00:39.920 --> 1:00:42.440 first got there, we were like thrown together, you know, 1:00:42.480 --> 1:00:45.360 when I first got to Jersey and we were, you know, 1:00:45.440 --> 1:00:47.480 we I was in all day Sunday, I was in 1:00:47.560 --> 1:00:52.080 a I forget. It was either Josie's room or Jeffrey's room. 1:00:52.120 --> 1:00:54.880 I forget. But it was crammed into, you know, like 1:00:55.600 --> 1:00:59.120 learning the lip sync. I studied the lip sync, you know, 1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:02.160 while I was flying across country, and and then learning 1:01:02.200 --> 1:01:04.640 the choreography because I'm used to singing, I used to 1:01:04.840 --> 1:01:06.760 I'm not used to dancing. I'm a singer, right, so 1:01:07.280 --> 1:01:11.000 you know that choreography. And so then we we got 1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:15.440 that together, and then we continued on from uh, the 1:01:15.480 --> 1:01:21.160 rest of that promotional tour, which if I'm getting I'm 1:01:21.200 --> 1:01:23.440 trying to get I'm at that point now where I'm 1:01:23.520 --> 1:01:26.080 even trying to get the timelines together because I'm I'm 1:01:26.080 --> 1:01:28.120 writing a book. I want to write my book, you know, 1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:31.800 so I need to get these timelines together myself. So 1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:35.840 when I got I think I got there in New Jersey, 1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:38.400 it had to been winter time because I had to 1:01:38.880 --> 1:01:40.840 I had to buy an overcoat because I didn't have 1:01:40.880 --> 1:01:43.920 an overcoat. So I went to this this clothing store 1:01:43.960 --> 1:01:46.439 in New Jersey thing it was called Heaven on Earth 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:50.200 or something like that, and and bought this overcoat, you know. 1:01:50.360 --> 1:01:53.400 So so that was so it had to been like 1:01:53.480 --> 1:02:02.520 about maybe November, uh, November, September, October, November, December time. 1:02:03.120 --> 1:02:06.200 And then we finished up that promotional tour at the 1:02:06.200 --> 1:02:10.840 Copa Cabana, you know, in New York. And then as 1:02:10.880 --> 1:02:13.680 soon as we flew back to back to La which 1:02:13.760 --> 1:02:19.160 was the beginning of seventy nine, I believe, because it 1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:24.040 was seventy eight. Yeah, the beginning of seventy nine, we 1:02:24.080 --> 1:02:28.040 started immediately recording the Big Fun album. Went in and 1:02:28.840 --> 1:02:32.120 started putting that whole whole thing together, and it took us. 1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:35.760 It took us, you know, four or five six months, 1:02:35.800 --> 1:02:37.840 or so four or five months or so to do 1:02:37.920 --> 1:02:42.520 the whole album, and then we put, then we put, 1:02:43.440 --> 1:02:47.040 so we went, So that takes us into towards the 1:02:47.200 --> 1:02:50.000 end of seventy nine, you know, the middle mid towards 1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:53.120 the end of seventy nine, and then put Second time 1:02:53.160 --> 1:02:57.080 Around out there, and Second Time Around at first was 1:02:57.160 --> 1:02:59.560 kind of creeping up the charts, you know what I'm saying. 1:03:00.000 --> 1:03:02.480 But it wasn't. It wasn't until we did a remix. 1:03:02.800 --> 1:03:06.440 Back then, that's when remixes were real big, you know 1:03:06.480 --> 1:03:09.440 what I'm saying. So, yeah, twelve inches and stuff. So 1:03:09.520 --> 1:03:11.760 I forget who did the remix. We did a remix 1:03:11.800 --> 1:03:13.760 on it, put it out there, and then it like 1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:17.120 screamed up the charts. So like that was towards the 1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:20.200 end of end of seventy nine into eighty you know 1:03:20.200 --> 1:03:23.200 what I'm saying. So it was like from that time 1:03:23.600 --> 1:03:25.200 then we had a hit record in eighty. 1:03:26.360 --> 1:03:30.320 Wow, can you describe what working with Leon Silvers is? Like? 1:03:32.400 --> 1:03:34.120 Do you have any do you have any big Fred 1:03:34.160 --> 1:03:36.200 Lewis stories to go with it? And I'm playing. 1:03:39.040 --> 1:03:41.920 It was like I know that at one point, you know, 1:03:41.960 --> 1:03:45.000 because Leon is like a stickler for backgrounds, and stuff 1:03:45.040 --> 1:03:48.280 like that. I mean, just like Stickler for backgrounds, and 1:03:48.280 --> 1:03:51.720 like I remember going in there one time and there 1:03:51.760 --> 1:03:53.880 was a part I was supposed to be doing that day, 1:03:54.360 --> 1:03:56.520 and like he we started out, I could tell it 1:03:56.600 --> 1:04:01.280 was gonna be one of those days. We're like, that's good, 1:04:01.320 --> 1:04:07.720 it sounds great. Let's do it again. Uh. And then 1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:11.160 he's like, you know, and and that after about after 1:04:11.160 --> 1:04:14.439 about forty five minutes, and so I said, Lee, I said, man, 1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:17.480 I can't do this today. They'll start a getting tomorrow. 1:04:17.520 --> 1:04:20.560 Man he was. He was just a test mast Like 1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:21.960 all right, I. 1:04:21.920 --> 1:04:26.439 Mean I mean phrasing, you know. And when you talk 1:04:26.480 --> 1:04:30.840 about Howard Hewitt sound, I would give a big portion 1:04:31.000 --> 1:04:34.720 of that. The kudos up to Leon for helping me 1:04:35.360 --> 1:04:38.680 develop the Howard Hewitt sound. You know, I had my sound, 1:04:38.720 --> 1:04:41.800 you know, going from the natural to the fast, you 1:04:41.800 --> 1:04:44.400 know before I left out Ohio. You know, when I 1:04:44.440 --> 1:04:47.000 was a kid, I developed that in my mom's bathroom 1:04:47.040 --> 1:04:49.520 with all the all the tile and everything, with the 1:04:49.800 --> 1:04:52.840 you know, built in reverb that you got in the bathroom. 1:04:52.880 --> 1:04:56.439 So I developed that natural going into the falls back then. 1:04:57.040 --> 1:05:00.840 But he helped me develop that other like staying like 1:05:00.960 --> 1:05:04.000 Stickler as far as phrasing is concerned, you know, looking 1:05:04.040 --> 1:05:06.840 at at every nuanced all those ad libs that you 1:05:06.880 --> 1:05:09.640 think are ad libs on there, on those there ain't 1:05:09.640 --> 1:05:12.880 no ad libs. We we thought that stuff out, you 1:05:12.920 --> 1:05:15.760 know what I'm saying. He put it, put it there, 1:05:16.040 --> 1:05:17.200 put it here, put it there. 1:05:17.560 --> 1:05:17.800 Yeah. 1:05:18.160 --> 1:05:20.280 Do you remember like a moment of time when that 1:05:20.400 --> 1:05:22.040 when that happened, when you thought, all right, I don't 1:05:22.080 --> 1:05:25.600 know about this, but like, no, you gotta you gotta 1:05:25.600 --> 1:05:25.840 do that. 1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:30.040 And it worked, Oh yeah, worked every time. But like 1:05:30.160 --> 1:05:32.880 those those type of things were like are you sure 1:05:32.960 --> 1:05:35.120 that's that's that's gonna work in there? You know yeah, 1:05:36.920 --> 1:05:39.360 and that poompom boom boom, and it just fell right 1:05:39.360 --> 1:05:41.080 in places like but do. 1:05:41.040 --> 1:05:43.680 You have any memories of recording because like two of 1:05:43.680 --> 1:05:47.080 my favorite shadow my songs of all time, over and 1:05:47.120 --> 1:05:50.200 over and Let's find a Time for Love. 1:05:52.040 --> 1:05:53.040 Remember those sessions? 1:05:53.200 --> 1:05:56.240 Yeah, I remember over and over like it was like yesterday, 1:05:56.240 --> 1:05:59.680 because that was when I was the only one in 1:05:59.720 --> 1:06:03.680 the group basically, you know, Jeffrey and Jody had already split, 1:06:03.880 --> 1:06:07.000 so like at that time I wanted to do I 1:06:07.040 --> 1:06:10.040 wanted to do my solo thing. But Dick says, well, 1:06:10.120 --> 1:06:12.439 you know, you still got two and a half three 1:06:12.520 --> 1:06:15.560 years left on this contract. So you either got it. 1:06:15.560 --> 1:06:18.640 You're either gonna do it, you know, go you just 1:06:18.680 --> 1:06:22.080 sit around and ride it out, go to court, you know, 1:06:22.280 --> 1:06:25.840 or move to England or wherever where Jeffrey Jody moved to. Well, 1:06:26.040 --> 1:06:28.280 so you can do another you know, another album. And 1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:30.560 so of course I hate court. I don't like court. 1:06:30.680 --> 1:06:34.000 You know, courts, like of course, like the court's like 1:06:34.040 --> 1:06:36.720 a nightmare Vegas. You know what I'm saying. You're just 1:06:36.760 --> 1:06:40.000 going to you don't know what's happening. So so like 1:06:40.080 --> 1:06:42.680 you know, but we recorded that over and over at 1:06:42.680 --> 1:06:44.960 that time, did the video and that whole thing that 1:06:45.040 --> 1:06:47.840 was when in the videos like me and Mickey Free 1:06:48.200 --> 1:06:50.920 you know me Mickey and Leonne in that video and 1:06:51.120 --> 1:06:54.560 uh and Let's time Let's find the Time for Love? 1:06:55.160 --> 1:06:57.080 Was that the song you said, Let's time that's it? 1:06:57.120 --> 1:07:00.240 Yeah, Let's find a time for love? Yeah? Absolutely not 1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:01.080 on the look is it? 1:07:01.120 --> 1:07:03.240 Is it? 1:07:05.440 --> 1:07:07.600 Yeah? That was was that? 1:07:07.920 --> 1:07:10.360 I think that was on three for Love? Let Me 1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:13.720 let me hold them let me Yeah? No, no, no it wasn't. 1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:15.360 It was on Friends. 1:07:17.080 --> 1:07:20.280 No, I think it's going Uh, let me. 1:07:20.240 --> 1:07:23.640 Find out that you're a fan of Go for It, Yo, 1:07:24.200 --> 1:07:30.240 like on the loaf, like you bullshit, like you deep 1:07:30.280 --> 1:07:34.920 cut cat, but cool dog Hey man, I rocked that album. 1:07:35.280 --> 1:07:40.480 Yo, here you go Manen finding Time for Love that 1:07:40.560 --> 1:07:41.840 was on Go for It wasn't. 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:48.960 That was it wasn't friends. I mean that was for Love. 1:07:49.120 --> 1:07:52.240 It's just a beautiful song, man, just it really it is. 1:07:52.320 --> 1:07:54.840 I love that record. But do you remember recording it. 1:07:54.880 --> 1:07:57.440 Do you remember like recording that joint or like that session. 1:07:57.520 --> 1:08:00.240 I don't. I don't really really remember anything that's out 1:08:00.280 --> 1:08:02.400 of my mind about recording except that it was just 1:08:02.480 --> 1:08:11.800 a nod boom boom boom boom damn. 1:08:11.920 --> 1:08:13.680 Now I'm looking for it. Yeah. 1:08:15.360 --> 1:08:17.560 And the thing and the thing that that really that 1:08:17.720 --> 1:08:19.599 really stood out to me as far as that song 1:08:19.760 --> 1:08:22.720 was concerned, also was just the combination of me and 1:08:22.800 --> 1:08:23.439 Jody Wiley. 1:08:23.560 --> 1:08:25.280 Man, it was like it was on Big Fun. It 1:08:25.360 --> 1:08:27.559 was on Big Fun, Big Fun. 1:08:27.640 --> 1:08:29.720 That was the first album. Yeah, I think that was 1:08:29.760 --> 1:08:33.120 the first time we really realized the magic that the 1:08:33.240 --> 1:08:37.720 combination of our of our voices really projected out there. 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:41.200 It was it was, you know them, the timbre of 1:08:41.320 --> 1:08:44.799 her voice and my voice together even on the background. 1:08:44.880 --> 1:08:48.280 Situation was like, amazing, amazing, that's a gorgeous song man, 1:08:48.320 --> 1:08:49.800 a great performance by all right. 1:08:50.320 --> 1:08:54.559 I don't necessarily want you to throw him under the rug, 1:08:55.760 --> 1:09:00.400 but can you answer two questions for me? Because you know, 1:09:01.640 --> 1:09:05.000 I just gotta know because again, like it's also my 1:09:05.120 --> 1:09:08.320 perception of Shalamar coming from a ten year old. But 1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:11.360 every time I turn around, like Jeffrey Daniel had a 1:09:11.439 --> 1:09:14.240 guitar in his hand, but I don't recall him playing guitar. 1:09:14.680 --> 1:09:16.080 Was he always air guitaring? 1:09:17.439 --> 1:09:20.720 Well, he was air guitar sometimes, but you know he 1:09:20.800 --> 1:09:23.320 knows how to play. You know, he really stuck to 1:09:23.479 --> 1:09:26.439 it and he really he can he can play it now, 1:09:26.640 --> 1:09:28.200 you know what I'm saying. He really knows how to 1:09:28.360 --> 1:09:28.880 play now. 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:31.080 And that's him singing on pop along Kid. 1:09:31.680 --> 1:09:33.680 Yeah, that's him singing on a long Kid. 1:09:33.800 --> 1:09:35.519 Yeah, Okay, I get I get it. Okay. 1:09:35.920 --> 1:09:37.040 No, I just wanted to make sure I didn't know 1:09:37.040 --> 1:09:38.280 if that was him, that was you, if he was 1:09:38.400 --> 1:09:43.200 giving much singing duties or not. Okay, from from one 1:09:44.040 --> 1:09:48.320 from one to impossible? How hard were they on the 1:09:48.560 --> 1:09:53.120 choreography front of things? Because you guys, you guys really 1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:57.519 had a together, you know, It's almost like I wish 1:09:57.600 --> 1:10:00.760 it was five of you because you guys were doing 1:10:00.840 --> 1:10:04.360 shit that was like for our listeners out there, if 1:10:04.400 --> 1:10:06.920 you if you can, if you could demo, if you 1:10:07.000 --> 1:10:10.960 could demo, if you could google. A song called Shoe 1:10:11.040 --> 1:10:15.760 Shoeshine by the Dynamics Superiors, in my opinion, is one 1:10:15.760 --> 1:10:19.240 of the greatest performances ever on Soul Train, in which 1:10:20.040 --> 1:10:24.160 they literally act out every word that's saying, like this 1:10:24.320 --> 1:10:27.200 is past Charlie Atkins, this is past Brook Payne as 1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:30.719 far as choreography is concerned. But yeah, I was saying 1:10:30.760 --> 1:10:34.400 that the choreography that you guys had, even if you say, 1:10:34.479 --> 1:10:38.000 like I'm not a dancer, somehow, in my mind I 1:10:38.120 --> 1:10:41.920 just always walked away with like Schallamar really had great 1:10:42.800 --> 1:10:46.719 polished choreography, Like how hard were how hard? 1:10:47.120 --> 1:10:50.519 And like how much time did you guys spend on 1:10:50.800 --> 1:10:51.599 those routines? 1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:55.200 Spending a lot of time on the routines Jody. Jody 1:10:55.360 --> 1:10:59.200 was really instrumental as far as like putting together a 1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:02.559 lot of routine. Jeffrey would throw his his his situation 1:11:02.720 --> 1:11:05.280 in there a lot, and I at far, I mean, 1:11:05.360 --> 1:11:07.719 I was just you know, because one of the things 1:11:07.760 --> 1:11:10.360 that that I was concerned about was the fact that 1:11:10.479 --> 1:11:13.439 I sing, and when you sing, it is like you 1:11:13.600 --> 1:11:15.960 got to breathe, and you got the and you're breathing 1:11:16.080 --> 1:11:18.920 if you're out of breath, you know what I'm saying. 1:11:19.400 --> 1:11:22.320 And so that's when I, you know, I did the 1:11:22.560 --> 1:11:24.600 I did the choreography and went through the quote. But 1:11:24.680 --> 1:11:29.479 I told them, let's make be conscientious of the fact 1:11:29.560 --> 1:11:33.439 that I'm singing. You know what I'm saying. You got 1:11:33.800 --> 1:11:35.960 you know, you guys, I'm saying, I'm singing, I got 1:11:36.080 --> 1:11:39.200 to hit those notes that I created on those albums 1:11:39.240 --> 1:11:41.519 and all that kind of stuff, so you know, so 1:11:41.680 --> 1:11:46.439 that's yeah, like you you know, and then then get 1:11:47.960 --> 1:11:50.240 you know what I'm saying, So you know, it was 1:11:50.400 --> 1:11:53.720 like then we started being I think we started being conscientious. 1:11:54.040 --> 1:11:56.880 They started being conscientious of that, and that's when the 1:11:56.960 --> 1:12:01.800 whole situation of like, you know, there's in choreography a 1:12:01.840 --> 1:12:05.200 lot of times less is more, you know what I'm saying, 1:12:05.720 --> 1:12:08.800 and the human mind, the human brain can only just 1:12:08.920 --> 1:12:12.320 take so much, you know, So I would rather people 1:12:12.840 --> 1:12:16.160 walk away from a concert saying, man, you remember when 1:12:16.200 --> 1:12:19.280 they did this thing together, boom boom, boom boom. They 1:12:19.320 --> 1:12:21.840 were together, and then Howard broke off and they broke on. 1:12:22.000 --> 1:12:24.439 Then they came back and did it together. And so 1:12:24.920 --> 1:12:27.920 I would rather that than a whole bunch of stuff 1:12:27.920 --> 1:12:31.799 that they're not really gonna remember anyway. And so Jeffrey 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:35.439 and Jody were on it. Jeffrey's whole backsliding thing that 1:12:35.560 --> 1:12:38.160 he had. Eventually, he's the one that taught Michael how 1:12:38.200 --> 1:12:41.240 to do that, and Michael named it the moonwalk. Jeff 1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:44.080 taught him how to do that. So but at the 1:12:44.360 --> 1:12:47.320 you know, during the show, we would play the song 1:12:47.479 --> 1:12:51.640 called what was it called I Forget It? But it 1:12:51.760 --> 1:12:54.479 was first first part of writing the Socket. It's called 1:12:54.479 --> 1:12:57.880 writing the Socket. Yeah, yeah, and we and they were 1:12:57.920 --> 1:13:00.439 being Then the band would break down into this funky 1:13:00.560 --> 1:13:03.240 groove and me and Jody would be on one side 1:13:03.280 --> 1:13:06.120 of stage rocking, and Jeffrey be all the way on 1:13:06.200 --> 1:13:08.200 the other side of the stage, and Jody and I 1:13:08.280 --> 1:13:12.200 would pull this imaginary rope right and pull it and 1:13:12.360 --> 1:13:15.280 boom like that, and Jeffrey would backslide all the way 1:13:15.360 --> 1:13:16.200 across the stage. 1:13:16.240 --> 1:13:16.400 Man. 1:13:17.479 --> 1:13:20.920 First, all people on the on the floor, It's guaranteed 1:13:20.960 --> 1:13:23.560 they're standing up because they think he's on like a 1:13:23.680 --> 1:13:24.479 conveyor belt. 1:13:24.560 --> 1:13:25.000 That's how. 1:13:26.520 --> 1:13:29.360 Until that. From that point on we could do anything. 1:13:29.479 --> 1:13:31.000 We would do it. It was on, It was on. 1:13:31.280 --> 1:13:34.919 So do you have any do you have any knowledge 1:13:35.160 --> 1:13:40.720 of because I know that Jeffrey was also trying to 1:13:40.840 --> 1:13:44.080 get another group off the ground, the one that with Casper, 1:13:45.080 --> 1:13:49.040 Coolly and Casper like his other dancers. There was there 1:13:49.120 --> 1:13:51.360 was like I think it was like a singing group whatever. 1:13:51.400 --> 1:13:53.960 I assume that he was trying to bring them through 1:13:54.000 --> 1:13:56.040 the solar channel. Did anything ever happen. 1:13:55.920 --> 1:13:59.080 To that project, I'm not sure. I remember Casper and 1:13:59.160 --> 1:14:03.479 Cooley though definitely Casper and Cooley actually went over first 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:06.519 because we were we were going overseas for a promotional 1:14:06.600 --> 1:14:09.920 thing for about six weeks, so that's when Michael wanted 1:14:09.960 --> 1:14:13.559 to learn the backslide, So first Cap and Coley, Casspar 1:14:13.600 --> 1:14:15.240 and Cooley went over there to try and teach it 1:14:15.320 --> 1:14:17.720 to him, but for some reason he couldn't grasp it 1:14:17.840 --> 1:14:21.000 from them. So when we came back from uh, from 1:14:21.640 --> 1:14:24.360 the promotional to it, that's when Jeffrey went over and 1:14:24.439 --> 1:14:24.960 taught him. 1:14:24.840 --> 1:14:25.120 How to do. 1:14:26.320 --> 1:14:31.960 But I think the the group was called, uh, what 1:14:32.120 --> 1:14:33.240 was the what's the name of the group? 1:14:33.280 --> 1:14:36.200 I forget to forget, I'm forgetting. Yeah, I'm blink right now. 1:14:36.240 --> 1:14:38.599 It's a it's a. It was a dance group basically, 1:14:39.280 --> 1:14:43.080 and yeah, and like I don't know whether Jeffrey was 1:14:43.160 --> 1:14:45.800 trying to make it into a singing group too and 1:14:45.920 --> 1:14:49.240 maybe bring it to Dick or whatever, but nothing really 1:14:49.320 --> 1:14:49.800 came of it. 1:14:55.439 --> 1:14:59.639 Okay, So at the time when second time around becomes 1:15:00.560 --> 1:15:04.840 a big ass hit and it's definitely established that you're 1:15:06.360 --> 1:15:09.840 in in a you know, a well established group that's 1:15:09.880 --> 1:15:13.439 not going to have to struggle, at least in our eyes, 1:15:13.560 --> 1:15:14.600 it's like, oh, you made it. 1:15:14.640 --> 1:15:20.080 Right out the box. How different does your life change? 1:15:21.080 --> 1:15:27.160 Like? What is it to be a young successful blackmail 1:15:27.400 --> 1:15:33.400 with a hit group? In Los Angeles, California nineteen. 1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:38.960 Eighty goopies were crazy, you know, but wet ass pussy. 1:15:42.520 --> 1:15:43.360 Did you just say that? 1:15:44.040 --> 1:15:46.400 And it made so much sense between me and Steven 1:15:46.479 --> 1:15:49.639 Howard And I'm afraid the resident or feeling there too. 1:15:50.160 --> 1:15:52.679 I just don't know if every was there. 1:15:52.560 --> 1:15:58.280 Too out of context leave it out in context. They 1:15:58.439 --> 1:16:00.799 just trust me listeners a conversation had. 1:16:00.760 --> 1:16:01.200 Earlier, but. 1:16:04.200 --> 1:16:06.719 In a sense that was one of the changes, because 1:16:06.760 --> 1:16:08.599 you know, I had dealt with with the whole groupie 1:16:08.680 --> 1:16:11.760 thing since I was like, you know, young, very young, 1:16:11.920 --> 1:16:14.960 like even in the gospel situation there you had your 1:16:15.000 --> 1:16:16.160 gospel groupies, you know. 1:16:16.280 --> 1:16:20.880 And when I, oh, yeah that's what they was holy 1:16:20.880 --> 1:16:21.599 from the way stuff. 1:16:22.240 --> 1:16:27.640 Man, you know, the Lord told me to give this 1:16:27.800 --> 1:16:34.960 to you. Okay, you know so, but but then you know, 1:16:35.040 --> 1:16:36.800 and then I had, you know, when I when I 1:16:36.840 --> 1:16:39.160 went into the R and B situation back in back 1:16:39.240 --> 1:16:42.720 in Ohio, we had our our fans that follow us 1:16:42.840 --> 1:16:47.439 around and then going overseas with the group with Beverly Hills, 1:16:47.520 --> 1:16:52.360 you know, yeah, I can't yeah, yeah, foreign situation. When 1:16:52.360 --> 1:16:54.960 I get with the group, I'm like, you know, I'm like, man, 1:16:55.080 --> 1:16:57.599 I got this down. This is like I've been dealing 1:16:57.640 --> 1:16:59.760 with this for a long time. There ain't nothing like 1:17:00.080 --> 1:17:02.880 hit record groups. Hit record groups are the ones that, like, 1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:06.040 you know, you come all of a sudden, it's like, oh, 1:17:06.160 --> 1:17:09.160 how did you get in here? You know, and so 1:17:09.600 --> 1:17:13.519 you know it that after a couple of years of that, 1:17:14.200 --> 1:17:16.880 that really made me look at that whole thing and 1:17:17.439 --> 1:17:20.599 and look and see, uh, you know, that's not something 1:17:20.640 --> 1:17:23.600 I really want to deal with as far as that's concerned, because. 1:17:23.800 --> 1:17:25.560 It's not like they know me. 1:17:25.880 --> 1:17:28.640 They just know what they think about me. They knew me, 1:17:29.160 --> 1:17:31.800 they might not even like me so like so that 1:17:32.400 --> 1:17:34.200 so I ended that whole thing that was That was 1:17:34.280 --> 1:17:36.800 a change in my life. But you know, as far 1:17:37.040 --> 1:17:41.080 as the responsibility, I think you started getting at least 1:17:41.120 --> 1:17:45.240 I did, anyway, started getting a sense of responsibility of 1:17:45.360 --> 1:17:48.439 what you're saying because you know that people are really 1:17:48.560 --> 1:17:50.639 listening to you, you know what I'm saying, and it's 1:17:50.760 --> 1:17:55.920 like and that's with that comes responsibility. It's like, you know, 1:17:56.080 --> 1:17:58.760 I got to like I said, I came from I 1:17:58.880 --> 1:18:01.720 came from a whole house of women, you know, like 1:18:02.200 --> 1:18:05.160 my mom, my mom, my four sisters, and then me 1:18:05.240 --> 1:18:08.599 and my dad were the only testosterone, you know walking 1:18:08.640 --> 1:18:10.920 around there for about three or four years until my 1:18:11.040 --> 1:18:14.800 younger my younger brother came. But you know, but I 1:18:14.960 --> 1:18:19.599 always looked at that and that always kind of shaped 1:18:20.160 --> 1:18:23.920 what I would allow myself to, you know, to say 1:18:24.439 --> 1:18:26.240 in my music and what I do and what I 1:18:26.680 --> 1:18:29.000 and what I project project as far as the music 1:18:29.120 --> 1:18:31.800 is concerned. So you know, but I mean it was 1:18:31.960 --> 1:18:34.160 it was because at the time, was we were only 1:18:35.320 --> 1:18:37.920 second time around was out there. I think it was 1:18:38.000 --> 1:18:40.720 like I think I was about twenty three, twenty three 1:18:40.800 --> 1:18:45.519 years ago, you know, so young. We were really really young. 1:18:45.640 --> 1:18:48.160 Jeffrey's only like a couple of months older than I am, 1:18:48.560 --> 1:18:51.519 and Jodie's like, I forget, like about three four years younger. 1:18:51.600 --> 1:18:54.240 But you know, we were young, you know when that 1:18:54.320 --> 1:18:57.120 whole thing went down. So it was it was a 1:18:57.240 --> 1:18:59.240 big adjustment, and big adjustment. 1:19:00.000 --> 1:19:03.160 Is there any I mean not preparing you, but did 1:19:03.200 --> 1:19:06.360 it ever get to the point where, especially when you're 1:19:06.400 --> 1:19:10.400 young and impressionable, you have ideas of what starter was 1:19:10.560 --> 1:19:13.080 like like, oh, there's a limousine and there's a bodyguard. 1:19:13.240 --> 1:19:15.280 But I mean, was there just ever a time when 1:19:15.360 --> 1:19:18.840 you just couldn't do something simple like just go to 1:19:18.920 --> 1:19:24.160 the seven eleven to get you know, that would stick 1:19:24.200 --> 1:19:25.280 of gum or something like that. 1:19:26.000 --> 1:19:27.720 Was it like that or was it just. 1:19:29.280 --> 1:19:32.120 Could you still have a personal life or was it 1:19:32.439 --> 1:19:37.479 like constantly being chased around and that sort of thing. 1:19:38.080 --> 1:19:40.080 Not being chased around? I think it was like, you know, 1:19:40.280 --> 1:19:42.840 here in the States, you you had to realize you 1:19:42.880 --> 1:19:45.320 had to get a sense of where you could go 1:19:45.400 --> 1:19:49.639 and where you couldn't go. You did It's like you know, places, 1:19:50.400 --> 1:19:52.960 there's places that even now I won't go because I 1:19:53.080 --> 1:19:55.599 won't be. It won't be you know, like you want 1:19:55.680 --> 1:19:59.960 a piece, yeah you're eating it was I don't mind. 1:20:00.040 --> 1:20:04.080 And you know, autographs and stuff, that's a part. You 1:20:04.240 --> 1:20:06.160 asked for it, you got it, Toyota, you know what 1:20:06.200 --> 1:20:09.960 I'm saying. So that's a whole thing. But like you know, 1:20:10.320 --> 1:20:14.720 the place that was really difficult to get around was 1:20:15.280 --> 1:20:18.080 was in the UK once when it when everything hit 1:20:18.479 --> 1:20:21.680 in the UK, because the UK is so condensed, you 1:20:21.760 --> 1:20:24.360 know what I'm saying. I mean, the the whole island 1:20:24.479 --> 1:20:28.479 is what Boble's biggest California, but you got all kind 1:20:28.520 --> 1:20:31.280 of people in there and then and so once once 1:20:31.400 --> 1:20:34.320 we hit there, it was like, I mean, it was 1:20:35.000 --> 1:20:37.760 hit hit. Jeffrey went on top of the pops did 1:20:37.800 --> 1:20:40.200 his thing the next day. It was like bam, it 1:20:40.320 --> 1:20:41.040 was crazy, and. 1:20:41.200 --> 1:20:43.800 Uh, can you explain that situation. 1:20:45.200 --> 1:20:50.080 Because I've seen him do uh night to remember where 1:20:50.120 --> 1:20:53.320 he's just pop locking by himself. And you know, even 1:20:53.760 --> 1:20:55.559 I went to live there for a couple of years 1:20:55.800 --> 1:20:59.000 and they still talk about like that being such a 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:03.560 game changing moment. I know that Jeffrey also hosted the 1:21:03.800 --> 1:21:07.320 British version of Souldiering Soultring six twenty or whatever it 1:21:07.439 --> 1:21:12.240 was called. But what was the situation that both you 1:21:12.560 --> 1:21:16.360 and Jody didn't make that promotional tour and Jeffrey just 1:21:16.439 --> 1:21:19.560 decided to pop lock and then well, to give you 1:21:19.600 --> 1:21:22.200 guys a backstory, I believe that the legend is that 1:21:23.360 --> 1:21:25.439 you guys were supposed to perform on Top of the Pops, 1:21:25.600 --> 1:21:29.280 but something happened, so he decides, I'm just gonna pop lock, 1:21:29.880 --> 1:21:31.640 and he does the moon walk on the show, and 1:21:32.920 --> 1:21:36.280 suddenly you guys become instant mega celebrities. 1:21:36.760 --> 1:21:39.240 That's how I always say, whatever we were, whatever we 1:21:39.400 --> 1:21:41.800 are over there in the UK, I mean we still 1:21:41.920 --> 1:21:45.479 Jeffrey and I and Carolyn Griffy still tour over there now, 1:21:46.080 --> 1:21:49.120 and we out we've carved out a real niche out there, 1:21:49.160 --> 1:21:52.160 real good niche over there where we're doing festivals with 1:21:52.280 --> 1:21:55.080 sixty seventy thousand people over there is now you know so, 1:21:55.920 --> 1:22:04.120 And but what happened was all right? That happened was 1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:08.200 we have been on the road so much. Also, Jody 1:22:08.400 --> 1:22:13.120 was like pregnant with her first her first child or daughter, Lauren, 1:22:13.800 --> 1:22:16.640 and uh, and I was trying to piece together what 1:22:16.960 --> 1:22:19.400 little bit was left of my first marriage you know, 1:22:20.120 --> 1:22:23.160 and which didn't happen. You know, it didn't work. But 1:22:23.800 --> 1:22:26.479 but we have been on the road so much for 1:22:26.640 --> 1:22:29.840 so long, we said, and at the time I can 1:22:29.920 --> 1:22:32.360 make you Feel Good. There's another song that that me 1:22:32.479 --> 1:22:36.880 and I get we wrote, we wrote together, and and 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:39.439 I Can make You Feel Good came out over there. 1:22:39.920 --> 1:22:41.880 I Can make you Feel Good blown up, you know, 1:22:42.000 --> 1:22:43.960 going up to charts, and took so long for us 1:22:44.000 --> 1:22:46.920 to decide what we're going to do. By the time 1:22:47.000 --> 1:22:49.880 he got there, I Can make you Feel Good had 1:22:50.080 --> 1:22:53.200 had fallen to number two and Top Fox was the 1:22:53.280 --> 1:22:57.479 number was was a program where they only did number 1:22:57.520 --> 1:23:01.720 one records on there, so so he couldn't do he 1:23:01.800 --> 1:23:04.519 couldn't do I Can make You Feel Good. But then 1:23:05.160 --> 1:23:09.120 somehow I forget what happened. They they arranged it so 1:23:09.200 --> 1:23:11.479 he could come back on there since he was all 1:23:11.520 --> 1:23:13.160 the way all the way over because it felt the 1:23:13.280 --> 1:23:15.439 number two on his way over there. 1:23:15.960 --> 1:23:16.160 You know. 1:23:18.960 --> 1:23:23.080 That's cold, I know, so like like they said, you know, 1:23:23.200 --> 1:23:25.240 they said, well, you know, yo, we can get him 1:23:25.280 --> 1:23:26.840 on here. You can do you know, do a dance, 1:23:27.040 --> 1:23:28.439 because he was going to do a dance thing to 1:23:29.040 --> 1:23:30.680 I Can make You Feel Good. But he ended up 1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:35.680 doing it to night, remember, yes, and I think that 1:23:35.880 --> 1:23:38.439 was going to be the next single anyway or something 1:23:38.560 --> 1:23:41.080 like that. So he went on there, and Top of 1:23:41.160 --> 1:23:43.560 the Pops is the type of show. It came on 1:23:43.760 --> 1:23:47.200 every Thursday, you know. And and if you went on 1:23:47.360 --> 1:23:51.080 Top of the Pops and and Kill Friday, you saw 1:23:51.200 --> 1:23:54.160 your album sales go go through the roof. That's how 1:23:54.760 --> 1:23:58.840 how how instantly impactful. You know that that show was 1:23:58.960 --> 1:24:01.760 to the UK. So man, he went on there. They 1:24:01.840 --> 1:24:05.560 went crazy. Man, they went crazy. It was like it 1:24:05.760 --> 1:24:08.599 was like, you know, we couldn't we couldn't walk down 1:24:08.640 --> 1:24:11.000 the street apps time. And then we went over there. 1:24:11.200 --> 1:24:14.840 You know, I was going to say that in some 1:24:15.080 --> 1:24:19.320 weird way, you guys, not going over there almost served 1:24:20.280 --> 1:24:28.679 the group better because of that very specific Hey guys, 1:24:28.760 --> 1:24:30.400 I don't know if you I don't know if you remember, 1:24:30.560 --> 1:24:36.839 but when Leon had did our show, he had mentioned 1:24:38.000 --> 1:24:44.360 a Shalamar video that it's escaping me right now. But 1:24:45.720 --> 1:24:48.760 I went, I forget the title, but I went to 1:24:48.920 --> 1:24:52.040 actually look it up on YouTube, and I have to 1:24:52.120 --> 1:24:52.639 say it it's. 1:24:52.600 --> 1:24:53.920 Probably in my mind. 1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:58.080 I thought the emergency video for the Whispers was the 1:24:58.240 --> 1:25:03.320 weirdest video from the Solar cannon with them arguing inside of. 1:25:03.320 --> 1:25:03.960 A phone booth. 1:25:05.000 --> 1:25:08.519 But you guys have a very it might have been 1:25:08.640 --> 1:25:11.800 for the song you just mentioned. It was like you 1:25:11.880 --> 1:25:16.400 were in a garden or do you not remember in 1:25:16.520 --> 1:25:19.599 a garden? Like you're in a flower shop or something 1:25:19.680 --> 1:25:19.840 like that. 1:25:19.960 --> 1:25:22.240 It's like, I don't want to be the last to know. 1:25:23.160 --> 1:25:27.240 Yo, Okay, who conceptualized? Have you guys seen this video? Y'all? 1:25:27.680 --> 1:25:32.000 No, forget forget keep on love of Me, forget all 1:25:32.040 --> 1:25:34.160 the weird videos that have come from Solar. 1:25:34.040 --> 1:25:41.160 Records, like this tops every Oh my god everything. 1:25:41.920 --> 1:25:44.920 I only I only wish I had a time machine 1:25:45.800 --> 1:25:48.240 to go back to Leon Silver's interview so we could 1:25:48.280 --> 1:25:49.400 talk about this video so. 1:25:49.479 --> 1:25:52.760 War because I looked it up way after after we 1:25:52.840 --> 1:25:56.639 did the interview. What was who conceptualized that video? 1:25:59.160 --> 1:26:06.160 Dude? It's like, didn't white It's like meats and one 1:26:06.160 --> 1:26:07.960 of them flop hats on and something like that. 1:26:08.280 --> 1:26:11.479 It's like an anti bellum, Like what's going on in 1:26:11.520 --> 1:26:12.000 this video? 1:26:13.880 --> 1:26:16.880 I don't want to be the last you know, if 1:26:16.920 --> 1:26:22.000 you're gone? Yeah, man, it was like that was back 1:26:22.080 --> 1:26:24.880 in it. That was back We did three videos in 1:26:25.000 --> 1:26:25.680 the same day. 1:26:26.960 --> 1:26:27.200 Man. 1:26:30.000 --> 1:26:31.040 This was the last one. 1:26:36.680 --> 1:26:40.599 I don't know who came up with their concept, because man, wow, 1:26:40.760 --> 1:26:43.920 your hair was I mean, but but it's just like, 1:26:44.160 --> 1:26:47.760 what was it the night to remember? I think when 1:26:48.280 --> 1:26:52.519 Jeffrey was the bartender, the waiter or the bar, he 1:26:52.640 --> 1:26:55.479 came out the closet and I'm like, that's not cool. 1:26:57.760 --> 1:26:59.240 Yeah, that that video was weird. 1:26:59.280 --> 1:27:02.000 But this, this, this takes the click, this taste, man, 1:27:02.200 --> 1:27:02.840 this white face. 1:27:03.640 --> 1:27:05.160 This is the one time I wish the show had 1:27:05.200 --> 1:27:08.720 a visual component. Everybody looking at it now, this this 1:27:08.880 --> 1:27:09.680 is the oddest thing. 1:27:10.240 --> 1:27:14.040 Yo, Man is crazy. Like I said, but we did 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:17.920 three videos. I remember it was. It's nice to remember. 1:27:18.080 --> 1:27:22.120 I don't want to be the last. And this tune 1:27:22.200 --> 1:27:25.720 called work work it Out, work it out, you know right, 1:27:26.600 --> 1:27:27.960 check out, work it out? Work it out? 1:27:28.080 --> 1:27:31.240 Is like that, that's even that's even crazy. 1:27:31.800 --> 1:27:33.200 It's even weirder. You know. 1:27:33.439 --> 1:27:39.360 So who directed these videos? Bill Parker, Jesus Christ. It's weird. 1:27:39.400 --> 1:27:42.160 You're right, I'm sorry, I'm like looking at it right now. 1:27:43.400 --> 1:27:48.160 But work it out? Yes, we got balloons working out. Yes, yes, 1:27:50.880 --> 1:27:52.519 and then the balloons go back. 1:27:53.880 --> 1:27:56.200 But I mean, but really though, I mean, those videos 1:27:56.240 --> 1:27:58.879 are weird, but I really looking back at it videos 1:27:58.920 --> 1:28:01.280 were really something that I think it took a lot 1:28:01.360 --> 1:28:04.000 of like black artists a while to figure out, you 1:28:04.080 --> 1:28:06.280 know what I'm saying, like what it was because a 1:28:06.360 --> 1:28:08.920 lot of those like early ages, I mean, they you could. 1:28:08.760 --> 1:28:10.519 Tell that they didn't know what the fuck to do, 1:28:10.720 --> 1:28:12.360 you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying. 1:28:12.800 --> 1:28:16.639 I mean, you look at it, don't look any further video. 1:28:16.720 --> 1:28:18.120 It's just like what in the hell you know what 1:28:18.120 --> 1:28:18.360 I mean? 1:28:18.840 --> 1:28:19.000 Right? 1:28:19.400 --> 1:28:24.679 Right? Uh, don't look any further video from Dennis Edwards insight. 1:28:25.800 --> 1:28:30.400 Yeah, but I will admit, like you guys, the whole 1:28:30.640 --> 1:28:36.000 Solar Cannon, all the groups, including the Lakeside videos, and 1:28:36.080 --> 1:28:38.320 even though I'm coming like at least like the fact 1:28:38.360 --> 1:28:41.640 that you guys we're thinking forward as far as the 1:28:41.720 --> 1:28:45.240 visual component that most groups weren't even thinking of back then, 1:28:46.000 --> 1:28:48.560 you know, so it's almost like and that probably explains 1:28:49.520 --> 1:28:50.280 I'm gonna get into. 1:28:51.840 --> 1:28:53.479 Yeah, for the life of me, I don't even know 1:28:53.640 --> 1:28:54.519 how you guys. 1:28:54.400 --> 1:28:58.760 Were successful in getting a deck giveaway on MTV at 1:28:58.800 --> 1:28:59.960 a time when MTV was. 1:29:00.160 --> 1:29:02.720 Very slow to play back black videos. But wait, I 1:29:03.240 --> 1:29:06.760 do have a question. I gotta go to Charlene and 1:29:06.920 --> 1:29:11.439 Willis's theme. Please. Why wasn't Somewhere There's a Love for 1:29:11.560 --> 1:29:13.439 Me ever released as a single? 1:29:15.479 --> 1:29:19.599 Amazing song the way that people respond to it, man, 1:29:19.840 --> 1:29:22.680 you would single, you would think it was it was 1:29:22.760 --> 1:29:26.640 a single at some point because it's like they go crazy. 1:29:26.720 --> 1:29:31.920 That Different Strokes episode, did y'all justice? Like that's you know, 1:29:32.400 --> 1:29:32.840 for those. 1:29:32.720 --> 1:29:35.360 Who don't know, you know, when Janet Jackson first was 1:29:35.520 --> 1:29:38.880 on Different Strokes like that was her and will In 1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:43.280 Todd Bridge's song on on on that show. 1:29:43.479 --> 1:29:45.360 So I didn't. I didn't know that, you know, I 1:29:45.439 --> 1:29:45.880 didn't know that. 1:29:46.080 --> 1:29:46.880 You never knew that. 1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:49.200 I never knew that. I didn't. I never really watched 1:29:49.240 --> 1:29:50.200 Different Strokes that much. 1:29:50.280 --> 1:29:54.599 But song placement. Man, again, I was a ten year old, 1:29:54.680 --> 1:29:55.600 so it's like, you know. 1:29:58.479 --> 1:30:02.040 Can you explain why me being aware of what you 1:30:02.120 --> 1:30:05.519 guys's records were as they came out. I do remember 1:30:05.600 --> 1:30:08.360 being very shocked and surprised when Gofer it was just 1:30:08.439 --> 1:30:11.360 like in the record Ben and I was like, well, wait, 1:30:11.479 --> 1:30:11.880 where's the. 1:30:11.920 --> 1:30:14.840 Single at how come? I almost felt like it was 1:30:14.880 --> 1:30:19.120 just put out there. It was just arbitrarily like what 1:30:19.400 --> 1:30:21.920 was was God for a bunch of throwaway songs or 1:30:22.560 --> 1:30:22.800 it was. 1:30:22.920 --> 1:30:26.120 It was there was we were going. Uh, Solar was 1:30:26.200 --> 1:30:31.640 going from r c A Distribution to Electure Distribution, to 1:30:31.840 --> 1:30:36.559 complete to complete their obligation to r c A. Each 1:30:36.800 --> 1:30:40.240 group on the on the on the Solar label old 1:30:40.439 --> 1:30:43.600 r c A. Another another album, one more album and 1:30:43.720 --> 1:30:47.320 then we could then Solar could move on to Electure Distribution. 1:30:48.280 --> 1:30:51.840 So it was like it was we called we used 1:30:51.880 --> 1:30:54.799 to call it the Throwaway album. But on that album, 1:30:55.160 --> 1:30:57.599 you had you had Sweeter as the Days Go By, 1:30:58.360 --> 1:31:02.120 you had you know, this talk to Me, which was 1:31:02.280 --> 1:31:06.200 which was like a crazy crazy things. James and I 1:31:06.400 --> 1:31:10.599 did a song on there called you Got Me Right, 1:31:11.200 --> 1:31:14.040 you know, one of those urgency things, you know, and 1:31:15.040 --> 1:31:17.080 and but that's what it was. We used to call 1:31:17.160 --> 1:31:20.679 it the throwaway album, you know. And that was because 1:31:20.720 --> 1:31:25.720 we had to fulfill the obligation to h RCA disabusing 1:31:25.800 --> 1:31:28.640 company and so that they can move on to the 1:31:28.920 --> 1:31:29.800 Electric election. 1:31:30.400 --> 1:31:34.360 So at the time, though, and you know, like Thuraway albums, 1:31:34.360 --> 1:31:37.800 are you know Frank Zapple was famous for it. Uh, 1:31:38.200 --> 1:31:41.960 you know, Prince did Cast and Disorder. Like Thuraway albums, 1:31:42.080 --> 1:31:44.120 there's nothing new about it. But at the time, are 1:31:44.160 --> 1:31:46.200 you feeling like, well, we do have a are you 1:31:46.240 --> 1:31:49.120 thinking about it in terms of legacy, like, well, I 1:31:49.160 --> 1:31:50.880 don't I don't want to just put a stinker out 1:31:50.920 --> 1:31:54.960 there or something that doesn't have all this promotion or something, 1:31:55.560 --> 1:31:58.040 because you guys are basically releasing it knowing that it's 1:31:58.080 --> 1:32:00.880 going to be dead in the water anyway. But did 1:32:00.920 --> 1:32:02.920 you feel any sort of way about that as a group, 1:32:03.080 --> 1:32:05.880 like we don't want to waste a shot, especially when 1:32:05.880 --> 1:32:07.240 we have this much momentum. 1:32:08.040 --> 1:32:08.400 Mmmm. 1:32:08.960 --> 1:32:12.320 We really didn't think about that a lot because I 1:32:12.439 --> 1:32:15.160 guess we were depending on the guidance of the record 1:32:15.200 --> 1:32:18.280 company as far as that's concerned. You know, they said, Okay, 1:32:18.320 --> 1:32:20.639 we're gonna do this. It's gonna be cool, blah blah blah, 1:32:20.920 --> 1:32:24.920 and like I said, some some uh sweeter as the 1:32:25.040 --> 1:32:27.519 days go by. That was that was a that was 1:32:27.560 --> 1:32:29.240 a pretty you know, it turned out to be a 1:32:29.320 --> 1:32:33.120 pretty especially overseas, turned out to be a pretty popular 1:32:33.240 --> 1:32:36.120 song and stuff. So it wasn't it wasn't like we 1:32:36.280 --> 1:32:38.719 put it wasn't like if you listen to the album, 1:32:38.840 --> 1:32:40.880 wasn't like we put a stinker out there. There was 1:32:40.920 --> 1:32:42.080 some stuff on, there was some stuff. 1:32:42.200 --> 1:32:43.519 Sorry about that. I didn't mean stinker. 1:32:43.560 --> 1:32:46.640 But in terms of releasing it knowing that you're just 1:32:46.760 --> 1:32:49.280 going to go put all the energy in front of 1:32:49.400 --> 1:32:50.400 the Friends album. 1:32:50.520 --> 1:32:53.160 That's yeah, yeah, in front of the album with the 1:32:53.240 --> 1:32:57.040 new distribution company. Now, I think we were you know again, 1:32:57.360 --> 1:32:59.519 we were so we were still at that point, we 1:32:59.600 --> 1:33:01.960 were still was pretty young in the business, and like 1:33:02.479 --> 1:33:06.080 so we were we were depending if Dick said we're 1:33:06.080 --> 1:33:08.120 gonna put it with you know, get a throw Way album. 1:33:08.200 --> 1:33:10.120 Leon I said, we're gonna do a throw Way album. Okay, 1:33:10.240 --> 1:33:11.920 all right, cool, let's do it. Let's get in there 1:33:12.240 --> 1:33:13.000 and work, you know. 1:33:13.160 --> 1:33:14.880 But I also noticed that this was the album that 1:33:15.000 --> 1:33:17.240 the three of you really got to contribute a lot 1:33:17.320 --> 1:33:19.200 of your personal songs to it, right. 1:33:19.200 --> 1:33:21.840 Right, especially Jeffrey. Jeffrey did a lot of stuff on there. 1:33:22.360 --> 1:33:25.120 And so in your in your mind, like what's what's 1:33:25.160 --> 1:33:27.759 your favorite album of v Shallamar Cannon? 1:33:28.680 --> 1:33:33.320 I think like I really dig Three for Love. I 1:33:33.439 --> 1:33:38.040 dig Three for Love because of the the politics of 1:33:38.120 --> 1:33:41.519 it and as far as because Lee Young Junr told 1:33:41.600 --> 1:33:45.120 me when I first got with the group, because up 1:33:45.200 --> 1:33:48.240 until that time, it was a lot of caricatures as 1:33:48.320 --> 1:33:53.240 far as album covers concerned. You know, the Uptown Festival 1:33:53.320 --> 1:33:56.080 album cover was a cartoon. 1:33:55.720 --> 1:33:58.040 Type of character, the disco gardens and. 1:33:58.720 --> 1:34:03.519 Disco guard and and also you know even the big fun. 1:34:03.400 --> 1:34:07.080 Album you know, on thee and stuff and still you know, 1:34:07.160 --> 1:34:10.400 but Lee told me, man, you have to establish your 1:34:10.479 --> 1:34:13.519 faces as far as the group is concerned when people, 1:34:13.920 --> 1:34:16.160 you have to establish it so that when people. 1:34:16.280 --> 1:34:20.679 Say Shalomar, they think of Howard, Jeffrey and Jody because 1:34:20.720 --> 1:34:23.320 they see it. And then and on the on the 1:34:23.439 --> 1:34:25.920 legal tip, you know, that was very cool. So that 1:34:26.200 --> 1:34:29.040 was that was really important to me as far as 1:34:29.080 --> 1:34:33.560 that album was concerned. Which album, which album was for 1:34:33.720 --> 1:34:36.240 the lover and you on? Was that on three for Love? 1:34:36.880 --> 1:34:37.800 That was on three for Love? 1:34:37.840 --> 1:34:41.200 I believe, I believe, Yeah it's on yeah, yes. 1:34:41.720 --> 1:34:44.360 And what you were talking about in the very beginning 1:34:44.520 --> 1:34:46.720 of the of this whole of this whole show was 1:34:47.439 --> 1:34:50.439 very important because when I first got with the group, 1:34:50.640 --> 1:34:54.120 it was like, you know, Shalamar the disco group, you 1:34:54.200 --> 1:34:56.800 know what I'm saying, And like, like I said, I 1:34:56.880 --> 1:34:59.320 wasn't a big fan of disco, you know what I'm saying. 1:34:59.400 --> 1:35:02.560 So my thing was like, that's we need to establish 1:35:02.640 --> 1:35:05.320 this as a as a as a group, as a 1:35:05.960 --> 1:35:09.040 as a whatever you want to pop, R and B whatever, 1:35:09.320 --> 1:35:12.760 not disco. So when we did for the Lovering You, 1:35:13.400 --> 1:35:15.920 for the lover and You was very instrumental in doing that, 1:35:16.120 --> 1:35:19.559 taking us from the disco group into you know, when 1:35:19.600 --> 1:35:22.720 they started talking about Shalamar, you know, after for the 1:35:22.800 --> 1:35:26.880 Lovering You, it was like, yeah, the group Shalamar, the 1:35:28.320 --> 1:35:31.560 singing group, pop group, R and B group, But you know, 1:35:31.720 --> 1:35:33.439 put the disco group out of the picture. 1:35:33.720 --> 1:35:36.000 What was the name, Where did the name come from? 1:35:36.080 --> 1:35:37.759 What was the meaning of the name Chalamar. 1:35:38.400 --> 1:35:42.479 This is there's this cat named Sis Simone Susan who 1:35:42.560 --> 1:35:48.799 brought h Uptown Festival to Dick and Don Cornelia's Uptown 1:35:48.880 --> 1:35:52.160 Festival was like a medley of motown hits, you know, 1:35:52.960 --> 1:35:55.600 so like uh, you know, in the disco, in the 1:35:55.680 --> 1:36:00.240 disco format. And so Simone Soussan was this cat. And 1:36:00.439 --> 1:36:03.240 there was a there was a garden over in the 1:36:03.880 --> 1:36:07.080 Middle East or something like that called Shalomar Garden. It 1:36:07.200 --> 1:36:10.560 was a s H L I M A R. You know, 1:36:10.800 --> 1:36:11.400 shalle Mar. 1:36:13.000 --> 1:36:13.320 It was this. 1:36:13.560 --> 1:36:17.880 There was this uh, there was this botanical garden that 1:36:18.080 --> 1:36:22.120 this potentate or somebody you know, put together for his lady, 1:36:22.240 --> 1:36:25.439 you know, and and so like there was this beautiful garden. 1:36:25.520 --> 1:36:28.120 That's how they got disco garden out of it. And 1:36:28.240 --> 1:36:29.439 then they changed the. 1:36:29.520 --> 1:36:32.840 I to the A and s A A L A 1:36:33.040 --> 1:36:35.760 M A L s H s H A L A 1:36:36.040 --> 1:36:36.360 M A R. 1:36:36.840 --> 1:36:39.200 Yeah, okay, what can you what can you tell us 1:36:39.840 --> 1:36:44.880 both legally and and respectfully about Jody's situation and why 1:36:45.000 --> 1:36:48.320 she's not torn with the band currently with us currently. 1:36:48.720 --> 1:36:49.160 Yeah. Yeah. 1:36:49.800 --> 1:36:52.479 At the time, we we got an offer Jeffrey, like 1:36:52.960 --> 1:36:56.120 I think it was about twenty years ago, seventeen twenty 1:36:56.200 --> 1:37:00.720 years or so ago. We we uh uh got well, 1:37:00.800 --> 1:37:04.400 Jeffrey got an offer to do five gigs over in Asia, 1:37:04.479 --> 1:37:07.880 over and throughout Japan and stuff, and so you know, 1:37:08.080 --> 1:37:10.800 we called Jody, we said, you know, jeff called me. 1:37:11.040 --> 1:37:13.479 I said, yeah, I'm down, I'm cool, it'll be fun. 1:37:14.040 --> 1:37:18.240 And then we called Jody and Jody said, well, I 1:37:18.360 --> 1:37:20.680 don't think I really want to revisit that part of 1:37:20.720 --> 1:37:24.280 my life, you know, and and which you know you 1:37:24.360 --> 1:37:28.320 can't say, I mean, she she, You know, everybody didn't 1:37:28.360 --> 1:37:31.040 have the same you know, it's a situation you can do. 1:37:31.640 --> 1:37:35.599 You know, three people, two people can experience the same. 1:37:35.560 --> 1:37:38.880 Exact thing and come different experiences. 1:37:39.120 --> 1:37:42.599 Two different experiences. So you got three people who experienced 1:37:42.640 --> 1:37:46.360 the same exact thing and came away with three different 1:37:46.520 --> 1:37:51.200 uh experiences. So at that time, Jeffrey and I went 1:37:51.400 --> 1:37:53.479 and we did the shows by herself. We put the 1:37:53.520 --> 1:37:55.600 band together and we did the shows ourselves, you know, 1:37:56.240 --> 1:37:58.479 and uh. And then in fact we went on to 1:37:58.560 --> 1:38:02.280 do a bunch of stuff in the UK. We went 1:38:02.320 --> 1:38:05.040 to Africa a couple of times with that light, with 1:38:05.280 --> 1:38:07.840 just me and Jeffrey. And then when we wanted to 1:38:07.920 --> 1:38:12.760 bring the female entity back into it, Carolyn Griffy who 1:38:12.840 --> 1:38:16.559 is Dick Griffy's daughter, and she was she was singing 1:38:16.640 --> 1:38:18.960 background for me on a lot of my solo stuff, 1:38:19.080 --> 1:38:22.599 you know, and so she had the history of the group, 1:38:23.240 --> 1:38:25.920 she had the passion of the group. So we didn't even, 1:38:26.160 --> 1:38:30.000 we didn't even. And also she had she has an 1:38:30.040 --> 1:38:32.840 amazing voice. I love her, I love her instrument. And 1:38:33.320 --> 1:38:37.240 we didn't even audition to anybody else. We just offered 1:38:37.320 --> 1:38:37.799 the position. 1:38:39.400 --> 1:38:42.840 Yeah, how was your how was your relationship before mister 1:38:42.880 --> 1:38:45.280 Griffy when he passed? How was our relationship at that 1:38:45.439 --> 1:38:47.519 time right before he passed? 1:38:48.360 --> 1:38:51.639 Me and Dick, Yeah, yeah, and we were we were 1:38:51.800 --> 1:38:54.320 we were at each other's about something. I forget what 1:38:54.439 --> 1:38:59.280 it was. I forget what it was. He didn't, And 1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:01.360 it was funny because, like, you know, he was just 1:39:01.840 --> 1:39:05.080 he was just learning about texting and stuff at that 1:39:05.280 --> 1:39:10.960 time and accidentally sent it to me. I'm like, nigga, 1:39:16.320 --> 1:39:18.400 you know, and I just I just laughed, you know, 1:39:18.600 --> 1:39:21.320 and and I forget what it was we were arguing 1:39:21.400 --> 1:39:25.920 about at that time, but I loved him. I loved it, 1:39:26.120 --> 1:39:28.880 you know. And then we had a bitter sweet thing 1:39:30.479 --> 1:39:39.680 when he passed, Yeah, seventy something, you know, and like 1:39:39.840 --> 1:39:40.920 you know, it was it was, it was. 1:39:41.120 --> 1:39:41.559 It was sad. 1:39:41.600 --> 1:39:44.400 I never got a chance to see him right when 1:39:44.600 --> 1:39:47.040 before he passed. We had a couple of meetings before 1:39:47.120 --> 1:39:50.680 he got before he got sick, and uh, you know, 1:39:50.880 --> 1:39:53.840 but we were arguing about something then. I forget what 1:39:53.960 --> 1:39:54.280 it was. 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:58.479 But wow, you know, I know, I know I brought 1:39:58.520 --> 1:40:01.000 it up earlier, but kind of want to revisit it. 1:40:01.640 --> 1:40:05.640 I know that you and James Ingram are singing on 1:40:05.760 --> 1:40:08.839 p YT. Are you at all involved on the original 1:40:08.920 --> 1:40:14.840 version of p YT the slower before it turned into 1:40:14.880 --> 1:40:19.120 the version that's on Thriller. There's another alternative, slower, smoother 1:40:19.400 --> 1:40:24.320 version of Yeah. Yeah, a slower version. Are you on 1:40:24.479 --> 1:40:26.400 that version at all? Or is it just the version 1:40:26.439 --> 1:40:27.120 that's on Thriller? 1:40:27.760 --> 1:40:29.920 Just a version is on Thriller. I didn't even know 1:40:30.000 --> 1:40:31.400 there was a slower version. 1:40:31.160 --> 1:40:33.479 Out, you know, you know good well, yeah, they left 1:40:33.520 --> 1:40:35.280 no stone unturned, like they kept. 1:40:37.400 --> 1:40:40.439 Where the background sampled from the from the no. 1:40:40.479 --> 1:40:44.080 No, no, no, it's completely different recording. Just the title. 1:40:44.120 --> 1:40:46.439 They shared the title, that's all. Like they turned into 1:40:46.520 --> 1:40:51.960 something totally totally different. But speaking of speaking of Griffy again, 1:40:52.240 --> 1:40:57.320 you know, MTV was was just a baby, and of 1:40:57.439 --> 1:41:00.840 course they were world famous for really not focusing on 1:41:01.720 --> 1:41:06.720 that many black acts. And yet I remember at the 1:41:06.760 --> 1:41:09.600 same time when they started slowly playing Billy Jean and 1:41:09.640 --> 1:41:13.679 beat It, you guys were one of the few groups 1:41:13.720 --> 1:41:15.920 that they slowly letting the door, along with like Prince 1:41:15.960 --> 1:41:21.479 and Lionel, Ritchie, Eddie Griant. How do you do you 1:41:21.600 --> 1:41:25.000 know how that happened? Like how was was that the 1:41:25.560 --> 1:41:27.080 making of Dick Griffy or like. 1:41:28.479 --> 1:41:30.840 I don't know what the politics were as far as 1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:32.800 what the politics were as far as getting all that 1:41:32.920 --> 1:41:35.960 into in uh into the playlist, but at the time 1:41:36.120 --> 1:41:38.880 it was just it was just us and Michael and 1:41:39.840 --> 1:41:42.320 but you know, don you had that you had that 1:41:42.680 --> 1:41:47.760 famous interview with David Bowie and Bowie. Yeah, and I 1:41:47.840 --> 1:41:50.240 think at that point they started kind of re re 1:41:50.400 --> 1:41:54.599 looking at certain situations. When David Bowie comes up to usist, 1:41:54.960 --> 1:41:57.439 how can you call yourself a music channel and and 1:41:57.560 --> 1:42:00.479 you not playing black music? It's like it's crazy, you know, 1:42:01.200 --> 1:42:05.160 so so like, but I'm not sure about the politics. 1:42:05.200 --> 1:42:08.479 It was just you know, people they the promotion. People 1:42:08.640 --> 1:42:11.000 kept pushing it, kept pushing it. But at the time, 1:42:11.160 --> 1:42:13.000 like I said, it was just it was just us 1:42:13.080 --> 1:42:15.200 and Michael at the time that they were playing. 1:42:16.000 --> 1:42:22.120 Okay, So can I assume that the look was technically 1:42:22.439 --> 1:42:26.040 kind of sort of maybe your first solo record, but. 1:42:28.680 --> 1:42:29.040 Kind of. 1:42:31.600 --> 1:42:33.479 Okay, it was the last. 1:42:33.560 --> 1:42:37.400 It was the last album that we did that Jeffrey 1:42:37.400 --> 1:42:40.160 and Jody and I did together. But they participated just 1:42:40.320 --> 1:42:44.080 like they equally as far as like just like we 1:42:44.240 --> 1:42:46.439 used to do all the rest of the projects and stuff. 1:42:46.880 --> 1:42:49.519 There's a tune on there called you Are the You're 1:42:49.600 --> 1:42:52.200 the One for me, man. Check that tune out if 1:42:52.200 --> 1:42:53.320 you get a chance to check that TOI. 1:42:53.520 --> 1:42:55.360 Oh, I know I know it well, I know it well, 1:42:55.479 --> 1:42:57.759 but I just wanted to know, like the working process. 1:42:58.160 --> 1:43:00.600 Speaking of the Look, I know, I know, and you 1:43:00.640 --> 1:43:03.960 know I'm a Philadelphian. So I feel like a bad 1:43:04.040 --> 1:43:06.040 Philadelphian because I'm gonna ask you this question. 1:43:06.479 --> 1:43:10.120 But I know that you wrote the Look with Stanley Clark. 1:43:11.160 --> 1:43:15.759 Now personally one of my all time favorite how Youwit songs, 1:43:16.680 --> 1:43:19.400 non shallow mar related, But really, if I'm honest with it, 1:43:19.520 --> 1:43:21.559 this is probably my all time favorite song of yours. 1:43:22.800 --> 1:43:23.840 Is Heaven Sent? 1:43:24.280 --> 1:43:27.880 Now you know, as a jazz head, you know this 1:43:28.000 --> 1:43:30.000 is a guy that's you know, done, returned it forever, 1:43:30.240 --> 1:43:31.360 doesn't change the world. 1:43:31.200 --> 1:43:35.920 Of bass music. I feel really silly that this is also. 1:43:35.880 --> 1:43:39.200 Might be my favorite Stanley Clark song, being as though 1:43:39.400 --> 1:43:41.840 he has such an intricate history with his bass, but 1:43:42.680 --> 1:43:46.840 this one particular song says could you What I really 1:43:46.880 --> 1:43:49.439 want to know is why didn't you say that for 1:43:49.560 --> 1:43:51.960 your own project? Yes, even though it made noise on 1:43:52.080 --> 1:43:55.760 his record, I almost felt like because when it came out, 1:43:55.880 --> 1:43:57.880 I felt like, oh, this is the how are you 1:43:57.960 --> 1:43:58.760 were solo joint? 1:43:58.880 --> 1:44:00.880 And then I couldn't find it. 1:44:00.960 --> 1:44:04.519 She's looking for forever, and then finally it's like it's 1:44:05.000 --> 1:44:07.200 buried on you know the Stanley Clark record. 1:44:07.360 --> 1:44:08.559 Did you talk about that song? 1:44:09.040 --> 1:44:12.559 That song? It was was one of the first times 1:44:12.640 --> 1:44:17.280 that I ventured, one of my first ventures off from Solar, 1:44:17.560 --> 1:44:20.719 you know what, I'm right, And so, like I said before, 1:44:21.000 --> 1:44:23.519 Dick wasn't really a big fan of that, but you know, 1:44:23.680 --> 1:44:26.320 it was like you gotta you can't just you know, 1:44:26.479 --> 1:44:30.040 keep people sold up in certain situations. So it was 1:44:30.760 --> 1:44:34.200 when Stanley, because Stanley and I met first, and then 1:44:34.240 --> 1:44:38.439 he un me to George and when we met, we 1:44:38.600 --> 1:44:42.280 had a mutual friend that was his accountant, I think, 1:44:42.320 --> 1:44:44.360 and then he did some he doesn't work for me, 1:44:44.439 --> 1:44:48.080 and then he introduced me to Stanley. Stan was a 1:44:48.160 --> 1:44:51.800 fan of you know, the Salomar stuff, and I was 1:44:51.920 --> 1:44:55.559 definitely a fan of Stanley. It's because my first instrument 1:44:55.680 --> 1:44:57.240 that I learned how to play when I was like 1:44:57.360 --> 1:45:02.080 twelve years old was bass, So you know, I was 1:45:02.200 --> 1:45:06.400 the Stanley was like the cat, right, So we just 1:45:06.479 --> 1:45:09.280 started working together. And there was another cat that wrote 1:45:09.360 --> 1:45:11.920 that song. I think he passed away. I can't remember 1:45:12.240 --> 1:45:17.519 that wrote a lot on Heaven sent Heaven said, yeah. 1:45:18.160 --> 1:45:19.680 Okay, I gotta look it up. 1:45:20.240 --> 1:45:24.800 Yeah, I can't remember his name. There was some I 1:45:24.920 --> 1:45:27.160 remember there was some stuff that was going on with 1:45:27.280 --> 1:45:30.840 him and Stanley, but you know, we got we you know, 1:45:31.000 --> 1:45:34.080 we went in and started recording, started messing around with it, 1:45:34.560 --> 1:45:36.479 and it was just it was it was just slated 1:45:36.520 --> 1:45:38.439 to go on his album. It wasn't slated to go 1:45:38.520 --> 1:45:41.519 on my album. And that was before I think, you know, 1:45:41.960 --> 1:45:45.040 the whole concept of putting a song. You could put 1:45:45.080 --> 1:45:48.040 it on this album, I'll do it that album, put 1:45:48.080 --> 1:45:49.760 it on my album. You know what I'm saying. We 1:45:50.360 --> 1:45:51.479 weren't doing that then. 1:45:52.240 --> 1:45:54.360 Is this song is it? Is it still in your repertoire? 1:45:54.680 --> 1:45:58.240 Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely definitely. I love that. 1:45:58.840 --> 1:45:59.000 You know. 1:45:59.160 --> 1:46:02.799 I was just gonna ask, what was the creative chemistry 1:46:02.960 --> 1:46:05.439 like Stanley and George working together? 1:46:05.520 --> 1:46:07.040 What were they like in the studio together? 1:46:07.760 --> 1:46:10.400 Man? It was like because because I did a lot 1:46:10.479 --> 1:46:16.120 of the Clark Duke, uh and a lot of involved 1:46:16.120 --> 1:46:18.000 in a lot of that, especially the videos I do, 1:46:18.280 --> 1:46:23.680 these little crazy cameo appearances on the videos didn't make 1:46:23.720 --> 1:46:25.840 any sense all of a sudden, I'm there, you know 1:46:25.880 --> 1:46:30.840 what I'm saying. It was amazing. I mean, George just 1:46:30.960 --> 1:46:34.240 working with George, so George was just I mean, if 1:46:34.680 --> 1:46:37.639 you didn't know anybody that didn't. All the whole bottom 1:46:37.720 --> 1:46:42.719 part of George's house in Hollywood, uh, lower Hollywood Hills, 1:46:42.800 --> 1:46:46.479 basically off of Franklin. The whole bottom part of his 1:46:46.600 --> 1:46:52.320 house was his studio. Everything room, studio, you know, everything, 1:46:52.680 --> 1:46:56.880 the lounge, everything was. The studio had a he had 1:46:56.920 --> 1:47:00.519 his wine cellar down there and stuff, and I mean 1:47:00.920 --> 1:47:03.240 it was it was just we We would just go 1:47:03.360 --> 1:47:05.560 in there and it was a place to go in 1:47:05.800 --> 1:47:09.639 and just be creative and working with and then watching 1:47:10.320 --> 1:47:15.360 him and Stanley together was just a double double situation, 1:47:15.520 --> 1:47:19.840 double dose of what you know, George did and it 1:47:20.000 --> 1:47:24.080 and it and it was was enhanced by Stanley's stuff. 1:47:24.320 --> 1:47:27.720 Stanley do some stuff, George would enhance it with his thing. 1:47:28.439 --> 1:47:29.080 I mean it was. 1:47:29.240 --> 1:47:34.360 It was a major, major creative, total creative atmosphere in there. 1:47:35.040 --> 1:47:36.280 That's beautiful, man. Wow. 1:47:37.200 --> 1:47:40.559 Could you what was the audition process like for Mickey 1:47:40.600 --> 1:47:48.719 Free and Delisa Davis once Jeffrey and Jody left, uh, challabar. 1:47:49.840 --> 1:47:54.000 Well, for Mickey, there wasn't really an audition situation. Mickey 1:47:54.160 --> 1:47:58.080 was working on a project I think with Leon, you know, 1:47:58.720 --> 1:48:02.680 and Mickey was like basically, you know, this prince like 1:48:03.479 --> 1:48:07.640 uh player cat and and he was working out of 1:48:07.760 --> 1:48:11.200 a studio masters, and so I would come there. I 1:48:11.360 --> 1:48:13.880 was working on something, and then we see each other, 1:48:13.920 --> 1:48:16.599 I think with these studio masters of Larbie a studio 1:48:16.680 --> 1:48:19.719 I can't remember, but we crossed each other across the path. 1:48:19.960 --> 1:48:20.640 Hey man, what was up? 1:48:20.680 --> 1:48:21.000 Hey man? 1:48:21.040 --> 1:48:25.080 What's up? And then keep on going right, and then 1:48:25.240 --> 1:48:29.360 we started talking and stuff. And Mickey is Mickey if 1:48:29.400 --> 1:48:32.760 he ever decided to put this guitar down and not 1:48:32.920 --> 1:48:35.479 do music anymore, he could be a stand up comedian 1:48:35.840 --> 1:48:41.000 for real. That that nigga had me cracking up the 1:48:41.080 --> 1:48:44.519 whole time. And so then that's when I talked to 1:48:44.720 --> 1:48:46.920 Leon because like I said, they were they were working 1:48:47.000 --> 1:48:49.479 on something. And then I said, well, why don't I 1:48:49.560 --> 1:48:53.559 bring you know, uh Mickey in, which changed the whole 1:48:54.760 --> 1:48:58.400 situation of the group, you know, because Mickey was more 1:48:58.800 --> 1:49:01.400 of this rock cat and I was just looking to 1:49:01.479 --> 1:49:03.400 do something to pass the time for two and a 1:49:03.439 --> 1:49:07.800 half years, you know, so you know, and we went 1:49:07.880 --> 1:49:09.960 into the whole you know, we went into the whole 1:49:10.080 --> 1:49:12.280 rock thing. You know. I always had my dressing room 1:49:12.280 --> 1:49:14.120 when Jeffrey was in the group. It was me and 1:49:14.240 --> 1:49:17.280 Jeffrey had a dressing room, right, we just went together. 1:49:17.439 --> 1:49:19.960 Joey would have her own dressing room, but it's just 1:49:20.040 --> 1:49:22.840 you know, the camaraderie of it, you know. So Mickey 1:49:22.920 --> 1:49:25.800 and I had our dressing room together. Our theme song 1:49:25.880 --> 1:49:30.080 in the dressing room was Rebel Yelle, which would call 1:49:37.520 --> 1:49:40.360 leather gloves on and the built can you know what 1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:42.439 I'm saying? And were ready to go out there and 1:49:42.760 --> 1:49:45.720 deal man, So like it changed the whole thing. Now 1:49:45.760 --> 1:49:50.920 with Deleisa, we Dick came up with this idea of 1:49:51.240 --> 1:49:56.000 involving a lot of the local different local radio stations 1:49:56.040 --> 1:50:01.120 across the country and do this contest contest to find 1:50:01.600 --> 1:50:06.840 the girl for Saloman, you know. And it involved the 1:50:07.640 --> 1:50:11.040 local radio stations and and all of them. They put 1:50:11.080 --> 1:50:15.400 together this thing. They had auditions Don Lewis. Don Lewis 1:50:15.520 --> 1:50:19.559 auditioned in New York. That's when I first met Don Lewis. 1:50:23.200 --> 1:50:26.720 I don't remember, I was I was all episode. I 1:50:26.760 --> 1:50:30.200 missed that episode. Yeah, was our last pre COVID interview. 1:50:30.840 --> 1:50:36.320 Oh yeah, I remember Don coming out with these hot 1:50:36.400 --> 1:50:39.639 pants and these and these uh uh what they called 1:50:39.720 --> 1:50:44.200 fish net stockings. Right for years, I called her fish 1:50:44.280 --> 1:50:46.960 net right because she didn't she didn't win the audition, 1:50:47.080 --> 1:50:50.960 and Delease because she won the New York audition, and 1:50:51.120 --> 1:50:53.720 then she was then they flew they flew her to 1:50:54.320 --> 1:50:56.960 l A and one it was here's l A in 1:50:57.240 --> 1:50:58.880 l A. One of the time she was in LA 1:50:59.000 --> 1:51:02.519 that's when she forgets she connected with the different world 1:51:02.600 --> 1:51:05.960 people are are, yeah, the different world people. But for 1:51:06.160 --> 1:51:08.920 years after I knew and you know, after I knew 1:51:09.040 --> 1:51:12.000 don for years, I can never really remember her name, 1:51:12.360 --> 1:51:16.640 but I call her fishnets, you know, so you know, 1:51:17.280 --> 1:51:19.960 but that was the process. You know. De Lisa was 1:51:20.040 --> 1:51:23.320 from Nashville. So when we went to Nashville, did the 1:51:23.560 --> 1:51:24.719 did the audis and there. 1:51:24.800 --> 1:51:29.040 So this this was nationwide's nationwide Yeah, oh wow, okay, 1:51:29.680 --> 1:51:32.400 Georganashville all all over the place. 1:51:32.479 --> 1:51:33.439 We're all over the place. 1:51:33.960 --> 1:51:36.439 By the way, did did Mickey ever share any of 1:51:36.520 --> 1:51:38.920 that basketball Charlie Murphy story with you at all? 1:51:39.560 --> 1:51:43.120 The day after he said, he told you after the 1:51:43.280 --> 1:51:46.160 day after it happened. Man, That's why when people called me, 1:51:46.280 --> 1:51:49.519 when people called me after Dave Chappelle did it, and 1:51:49.960 --> 1:51:52.680 years later when people called me and told me, man, 1:51:52.760 --> 1:51:57.040 you see that skit, the Charlie Murphy Hollywood stories and 1:51:57.479 --> 1:51:58.840 on Dave Chapelle. They did a thing. 1:51:58.920 --> 1:52:01.080 They talked about Mickey going up and going up to 1:52:01.520 --> 1:52:03.880 Princess House. I said, Man, Mickey called me the day 1:52:03.920 --> 1:52:06.519 after they the day after they did that, and so 1:52:07.000 --> 1:52:09.640 were up at We were up at Shortcats House man 1:52:09.800 --> 1:52:13.040 last night, and and Eddie Murphy and Charlie Murphy. Everybody 1:52:13.120 --> 1:52:15.840 came up and played basketball, he said. Prince Prince went 1:52:15.920 --> 1:52:22.920 out there in his heels and was dunking. He said, Man, 1:52:23.720 --> 1:52:25.160 anybody wants some pancakes? 1:52:28.200 --> 1:52:29.880 Wait a minute, he called me. 1:52:30.400 --> 1:52:32.439 He called me the day after a day after that 1:52:32.520 --> 1:52:32.960 went down. 1:52:34.040 --> 1:52:36.640 Wait, can I get this fronte because I'm gonna forget this. 1:52:38.120 --> 1:52:43.439 Also on the Look, you worked with the legendary David 1:52:43.560 --> 1:52:46.000 Hawk Wazinski formerly of Rufus. 1:52:46.760 --> 1:52:46.960 Yes. 1:52:47.800 --> 1:52:50.200 Yeah, could you talk to like that? That's a cat 1:52:50.280 --> 1:52:53.000 I definitely want to interview as well. Liked you talk 1:52:53.040 --> 1:52:55.760 about the process of songwriting with him and working with him. 1:52:56.160 --> 1:53:00.320 It was wild Hawk was wild. His studio. It was 1:53:00.400 --> 1:53:02.920 called it was up in the Hills, off of a 1:53:03.200 --> 1:53:06.120 law off, the off, the one on off, the one 1:53:06.200 --> 1:53:09.759 on one. Uh, Laurel wasn't law can I can't remember? 1:53:10.200 --> 1:53:10.479 Okay? 1:53:10.800 --> 1:53:12.880 It was up in the Hills and the name of 1:53:12.960 --> 1:53:15.760 the studio was called Food in the Hill. 1:53:16.160 --> 1:53:18.520 You know what I'm saying, Called fool Hill, Okay. 1:53:19.720 --> 1:53:21.200 Pool in the Hills Studios. 1:53:21.320 --> 1:53:25.439 So it was like me him, Mickey, we had it. 1:53:25.720 --> 1:53:29.360 Yeah, it was just the whole writing process and would 1:53:29.400 --> 1:53:31.280 get serious then all of a sudden it would just 1:53:31.400 --> 1:53:33.800 go off to change somewhere else and we were just 1:53:33.920 --> 1:53:35.920 you know, we were just up there. We had we had, 1:53:36.120 --> 1:53:39.920 you know, interesting situation visitors up there in and out and. 1:53:44.520 --> 1:53:45.679 I as see what you're going. 1:53:48.240 --> 1:53:50.880 And so like, you know, but it was but but 1:53:51.040 --> 1:53:53.920 the creative situation of it when we would be on 1:53:54.439 --> 1:53:57.760 track was amazing. It was amazing. We got a lot 1:53:57.840 --> 1:54:02.000 of work done, a lot of creative looking at we did. 1:54:02.200 --> 1:54:04.519 One of the songs we did was called my Girl loves. 1:54:04.400 --> 1:54:09.120 My Girl loves Me. That's my ship, you know, yeah, yeah, 1:54:15.080 --> 1:54:15.280 I know. 1:54:15.400 --> 1:54:18.360 Probably to you like this was like all right, I'm 1:54:18.439 --> 1:54:21.200 just gonna do this bid and then get out here 1:54:21.240 --> 1:54:26.280 and do my solo Jowin. But you know, for a whatever, 1:54:26.439 --> 1:54:29.360 a past the time record, at least in your words, 1:54:29.640 --> 1:54:34.920 like I the the Heartbreak record was actually kind of dope, 1:54:35.800 --> 1:54:39.360 and I do I do want to know the story. Okay, 1:54:39.440 --> 1:54:42.120 so I know the history of Dean Pittsford because I 1:54:42.160 --> 1:54:45.200 went to perform An arts high school. So Dean Pittsford, 1:54:45.240 --> 1:54:48.440 of course you know he's he's he's a fellow e 1:54:48.600 --> 1:54:53.320 gotter Bill. You should know this person. He wrote, I 1:54:53.400 --> 1:54:55.760 mean from Godspell, the Fame. He wrote like a lot 1:54:55.800 --> 1:54:58.120 of Broadway stuff. He won Matt Grammys and a Tony 1:54:58.200 --> 1:55:01.000 and Emmy. I know that him and Bill Wolford wrote 1:55:01.200 --> 1:55:04.440 uh about to say footloose? Well, they wrote that too. 1:55:05.160 --> 1:55:08.240 They wrote dancing in the sheets, sheets like. 1:55:08.480 --> 1:55:13.000 The streets to a child here, excuse me, mister Hewett. 1:55:13.000 --> 1:55:14.720 And I know I called you Howard the whole time. 1:55:14.960 --> 1:55:17.880 But a young child who hears that song you sang 1:55:17.960 --> 1:55:19.800 the first time you heard somebody said it was dancing 1:55:19.840 --> 1:55:21.480 in the I mean they're. 1:55:21.280 --> 1:55:23.480 Talking about getting it on and they talking about the sheets. 1:55:23.600 --> 1:55:25.480 Kids don't even hear that part. You just hear them. 1:55:25.760 --> 1:55:27.960 I was a kid and I heard that your friends. 1:55:28.240 --> 1:55:32.600 You know, Yes, I now grab your coat when we're 1:55:32.640 --> 1:55:34.320 going home, That's what he says. 1:55:34.880 --> 1:55:37.560 Yeah, I'm enlightened. As of today, I am enlightened. 1:55:38.000 --> 1:55:40.800 Yes, she thought I was dancing in the streets. But wait, 1:55:40.880 --> 1:55:41.400 can I can. 1:55:41.480 --> 1:55:44.040 I just ask though, yes, the song was a bona 1:55:44.120 --> 1:55:47.080 fide hit, but did anyone ever raise the question that 1:55:47.160 --> 1:55:49.720 it might be a tad bit derivative of nineteen ninety 1:55:49.800 --> 1:55:50.280 nine at all? 1:55:51.040 --> 1:55:53.560 Well, you know, the thing, the whole the way that 1:55:53.680 --> 1:55:57.120 whole thing came about was at the time, like I said, 1:55:57.120 --> 1:55:58.960 it was just me. I don't even think I had 1:55:59.120 --> 1:56:02.080 Mickey in the group the time. It was just it 1:56:02.240 --> 1:56:06.640 was just me and and Dean Pittford called and wanted 1:56:06.720 --> 1:56:09.160 me and Leon to come to the to the Paramount 1:56:09.240 --> 1:56:13.320 Studios and listen and look at this movie that he 1:56:13.440 --> 1:56:16.520 had and he had temporary music in it, you know, 1:56:16.760 --> 1:56:20.040 just stuff. And then when it came to the park 1:56:20.080 --> 1:56:24.000 where he had written you know, for dancing and sheets, 1:56:24.040 --> 1:56:26.760 he said, this is where I want, you know, shalamar 1:56:26.880 --> 1:56:30.000 thing to be. And so, like you know, we watched 1:56:30.040 --> 1:56:32.960 a movie, we talked, got blah blah blahlah, and Leon 1:56:33.080 --> 1:56:35.400 and Leone and I are walking back to the UH 1:56:36.040 --> 1:56:39.640 to the the parking lot and I said, well, what 1:56:39.760 --> 1:56:42.520 do you think you know? He said, well, I got 1:56:42.600 --> 1:56:44.480 a whole lot on my plate. I don't think that's 1:56:44.520 --> 1:56:46.400 gonna be a big movie, you know what, I'm saying 1:56:46.480 --> 1:56:49.880 it's it's like and I got I got a whole 1:56:49.920 --> 1:56:52.440 lot on my plate. I don't really, I'm not I'm 1:56:52.480 --> 1:56:54.240 not really gonna have time to do it. He said, 1:56:54.240 --> 1:56:56.920 well what do you think? I said, well, I don't 1:56:56.920 --> 1:56:58.880 think it's gonna be a big movie either, you know, 1:56:59.240 --> 1:57:06.640 but god, I ain't gonna throw Leon under the bus 1:57:06.840 --> 1:57:08.800 like that. It was me too, I said, I don't 1:57:08.800 --> 1:57:10.160 think it's going to be a big movie. 1:57:10.520 --> 1:57:13.000 You saw Footloose and you were just like, man, whatever, 1:57:13.760 --> 1:57:15.480 you know, okay, you. 1:57:15.520 --> 1:57:17.760 Know, because because it was it was just you know, 1:57:17.880 --> 1:57:21.040 this guy, this cat teaching white folks how to dance 1:57:21.120 --> 1:57:24.760 and all that. You know, It's like, you know, it's like, hey, 1:57:25.000 --> 1:57:26.680 you know, I don't think it's going to be that 1:57:26.800 --> 1:57:29.800 big of a movie. But I said, but being with 1:57:30.080 --> 1:57:32.800 the position that the group, which I was gonna have 1:57:32.960 --> 1:57:35.720 to keep on at that time, I knew Dick Griffy 1:57:35.840 --> 1:57:38.720 wasn't gonna allow me to get out of my contract, 1:57:38.800 --> 1:57:41.560 so I had to keep on with the group. I said, 1:57:41.640 --> 1:57:45.440 but given the position that the group is in at 1:57:45.480 --> 1:57:47.800 this time, I said, I think it would be a 1:57:47.960 --> 1:57:50.320 good even though I don't think it's gonna be a 1:57:50.880 --> 1:57:53.520 I don't think it's a great movie. They're gonna put 1:57:53.560 --> 1:57:54.440 a push behind it. 1:57:54.560 --> 1:57:57.880 Yeah, good look, it'll be a good look promotional thing. 1:57:58.000 --> 1:58:00.200 So it would be you know, why not do it? 1:58:00.280 --> 1:58:01.840 I'll do it. I put it, you know, do the 1:58:02.040 --> 1:58:04.680 do the song, put it in there, shallow my name 1:58:04.800 --> 1:58:08.280 lives hoever, you know what I'm saying. So I know, 1:58:09.360 --> 1:58:15.000 I had to go to Solar, to the legal department 1:58:15.080 --> 1:58:18.600 in Solar when somebody called me one morning and then 1:58:18.760 --> 1:58:21.560 the soundtrack had been out there and it is sold. 1:58:21.600 --> 1:58:25.200 Because at that time, soundtracks weren't really big. People really 1:58:25.280 --> 1:58:28.600 didn't look at soundtracks, you know, and that was like 1:58:28.720 --> 1:58:31.880 the first the first bid of the first one of 1:58:31.960 --> 1:58:34.800 the first big soundtracks out there. But I had to 1:58:34.880 --> 1:58:37.320 go to Solar and say because somebody called me that 1:58:37.760 --> 1:58:42.320 particular morning said, uh, you've been checking out the Footloose 1:58:42.560 --> 1:58:46.160 soundtrack and said now, I was, hey, man, they sold 1:58:46.200 --> 1:58:49.600 platinum already. I said, what there, you know? And so 1:58:49.720 --> 1:58:52.160 I go I go to and talk to Virgil Roberts 1:58:52.240 --> 1:58:55.200 at the at the record company. I went down to 1:58:55.240 --> 1:58:57.800 the record company. I said, man, Vergil, you've been checking 1:58:57.840 --> 1:59:03.720 the Dancing the Footloose soundtrack. Virgil goes in yeah, you 1:59:03.840 --> 1:59:06.880 know about how these these things really don't don't sell 1:59:06.920 --> 1:59:07.200 a lot. 1:59:07.400 --> 1:59:09.120 You know, it's not a sound. 1:59:11.240 --> 1:59:14.760 And that said I said, dude, it's platinum. Somebody told 1:59:14.800 --> 1:59:17.280 me it'slat Yeah, there's no way, no way, platinum. And 1:59:17.360 --> 1:59:20.800 then that's it took off from there. Man, it's crazy. 1:59:21.320 --> 1:59:23.400 But I was about to say, you guys, double dip, 1:59:23.640 --> 1:59:29.200 because isn't the only Grammy for Shallamar also for your 1:59:29.280 --> 1:59:33.200 participation on the Beverly Hills cop so yeah, for don't 1:59:33.240 --> 1:59:34.400 get Stopped in Beverly Hills. 1:59:34.480 --> 1:59:37.200 So it was almost like eighty four was the year. 1:59:37.240 --> 1:59:43.800 Of Yeah that was Hawk with Linsky. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:59:43.920 --> 1:59:47.280 double dip. That's that's that's right. We didn't I don't. 1:59:47.360 --> 1:59:49.520 I don't think we know. We didn't win anything for. 1:59:51.360 --> 1:59:56.240 Well that well, the soundtrack one a Grammy, So I 1:59:56.600 --> 1:59:58.800 assume that someone gets that. 1:59:58.960 --> 2:00:01.800 Uh, you know that sort of thing. 2:00:02.760 --> 2:00:04.400 I was gonna I was gonna ask you out man, 2:00:05.040 --> 2:00:07.360 what can you tell us about your marriage to near 2:00:07.440 --> 2:00:09.880 people's I used to always watch the Party Machine when 2:00:09.880 --> 2:00:10.320 I was a kid. 2:00:10.640 --> 2:00:11.880 Jesus I got. 2:00:12.840 --> 2:00:15.800 First, like so I felt like a little celebrity couple. 2:00:16.040 --> 2:00:17.640 Yeah, the original jame b. 2:00:20.000 --> 2:00:20.879 I gotta say. 2:00:23.480 --> 2:00:26.840 Kay, no, no, no, no, no, never mind, keep going. 2:00:29.000 --> 2:00:30.880 That's a good story, right there was. 2:00:32.600 --> 2:00:35.280 There was a cat. There was a cat Jerome Gasper, 2:00:35.360 --> 2:00:37.720 who was an r cat for PolyGram. I think at 2:00:37.760 --> 2:00:39.840 the time it's a good friend of mine and so 2:00:40.880 --> 2:00:44.000 and maybe prefaced it. Also. I had a I had 2:00:44.000 --> 2:00:47.000 a condo and Handcock Parker that at that time, and 2:00:47.080 --> 2:00:49.120 I had this in my bedroom. I had this big 2:00:49.320 --> 2:00:53.280 you know, remember the rear projections, big screen TVs. I 2:00:53.400 --> 2:00:56.560 had a big rear projections, big screen TV at the 2:00:56.600 --> 2:01:00.240 bottom of my bed. And uh, every morning I wake up, 2:01:00.520 --> 2:01:03.520 you know, turn on the TV, flip through the channels, 2:01:03.960 --> 2:01:08.040 get the channel eleven or nine or whatever, and I 2:01:08.160 --> 2:01:10.520 see Fame was on, you know, you know what I'm saying. 2:01:11.000 --> 2:01:13.920 And there I said, man, there's this fine woman that 2:01:14.160 --> 2:01:20.080 comes on Fame. You know, I never I never waited 2:01:20.280 --> 2:01:22.160 for the credits or anything. I just wanted to look 2:01:22.200 --> 2:01:24.640 at her, you know what I'm saying. And then I 2:01:25.240 --> 2:01:27.480 keep it on Fame on the channel where Fame was 2:01:27.600 --> 2:01:30.480 for about you know, ten fifteen minutes. If she didn't 2:01:30.560 --> 2:01:32.760 come on the screen, I'd start flipping through the channel. 2:01:32.880 --> 2:01:38.320 But I'm sitting there. Yeah, fine, you know what I'm saying. 2:01:38.400 --> 2:01:42.720 So this guy's er own Gaspar called me and uh 2:01:42.880 --> 2:01:45.400 he said, he talked. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 2:01:45.440 --> 2:01:47.440 yeah yeah yeah. Howard Howard, Howard Howard. 2:01:47.760 --> 2:01:47.920 You know. 2:01:48.040 --> 2:01:50.040 He said, man, we just we just signed the girl 2:01:50.080 --> 2:01:52.839 from fame, you know, to a contract or a PolyGram. 2:01:53.120 --> 2:01:54.600 I want you to do a few songs on her. 2:01:54.600 --> 2:01:56.440 I wanted to a couple of two, three songs on her. 2:01:56.800 --> 2:01:59.560 I said, well, whi's the girl there's near people's. I said, well, 2:01:59.600 --> 2:01:59.960 which girl? 2:02:01.760 --> 2:02:03.160 You that? 2:02:03.320 --> 2:02:08.120 Same he said? He said, I sent you overnight a compilation, 2:02:08.760 --> 2:02:12.640 uh via a tape to you. And I said, okay, cool. 2:02:12.760 --> 2:02:16.600 Next morning the FedEx cons, they they get the tape. 2:02:16.640 --> 2:02:19.120 I put the tape in my VH just seeing and 2:02:19.200 --> 2:02:21.880 I said, ladies general near people And she comes walking 2:02:21.920 --> 2:02:24.960 out on stage. I pushed cars and I called, I'm in. 2:02:25.440 --> 2:02:30.160 I mean, I'm on my way. 2:02:32.400 --> 2:02:34.640 Whatever you want me to do on there, you know. 2:02:34.840 --> 2:02:36.840 And soul Train was first. 2:02:36.880 --> 2:02:38.560 I said, I messed up that timeline in my kid 2:02:38.640 --> 2:02:40.120 here because I was like, oh, I thought soul Train 2:02:40.240 --> 2:02:42.560 was first. With soul Train was after the two of 2:02:42.600 --> 2:02:43.200 your hosts. 2:02:43.200 --> 2:02:45.920 And she was never on soul Train. He was never 2:02:46.400 --> 2:02:47.640 she was on Party Machine. 2:02:50.520 --> 2:02:55.600 Sorry but to our long but to our younger gen 2:02:55.720 --> 2:02:58.680 Z listeners, she's all she's the hot mom on Pretty 2:02:58.720 --> 2:02:59.360 Little Liars. 2:02:59.560 --> 2:03:04.200 So that's what that's what everyone knows her as, like, Yes. 2:03:07.280 --> 2:03:11.200 We worked on we worked on the album and really 2:03:11.240 --> 2:03:14.240 got you know, got got really close. So she's she's 2:03:14.240 --> 2:03:16.800 a good ladies, she's a good woman. We have our son. 2:03:16.920 --> 2:03:19.960 We have Christopher is uh our son, you know, and 2:03:21.040 --> 2:03:24.280 it's amazing. We just we just had lunch about two 2:03:24.320 --> 2:03:27.360 weeks or so ago, she and I, Christopher, her other 2:03:27.440 --> 2:03:30.200 daughter and stuff. It's like this, it's very cool. It's 2:03:30.280 --> 2:03:30.640 very cool. 2:03:31.840 --> 2:03:34.680 First response and be like, let's we just had lunch. 2:03:38.840 --> 2:03:41.800 No wait, I gotta say though, Damn, I didn't wait 2:03:41.880 --> 2:03:46.240 because I know we got to end this episode eventually sometime, however, 2:03:46.880 --> 2:03:47.240 I will. 2:03:47.560 --> 2:03:49.520 I got this. What is okay? 2:03:49.640 --> 2:03:52.280 This is always what I always wanted to know when 2:03:52.680 --> 2:03:59.240 an artist does their signature, like when they do the 2:03:59.360 --> 2:04:01.360 Token Gods song on their record. 2:04:02.280 --> 2:04:02.600 I E. 2:04:04.760 --> 2:04:08.360 Love that sort of thing. Where is are you at 2:04:08.400 --> 2:04:09.280 a place in your life? 2:04:09.320 --> 2:04:12.240 What it's sort of like because we we didn't even 2:04:12.280 --> 2:04:16.000 get into the personal comings and going through life in 2:04:16.080 --> 2:04:19.520 the turmoil whatever, like we're just on the creative and 2:04:19.600 --> 2:04:23.600 the things. But at that point, the fact the fact 2:04:23.640 --> 2:04:26.360 that say Men became such a signature song for you, 2:04:27.000 --> 2:04:28.920 m h, Like, where were. 2:04:28.800 --> 2:04:31.320 You in your life that that song. 2:04:32.760 --> 2:04:36.520 Made made its appearance and the way that you delivered it, 2:04:36.640 --> 2:04:38.960 like we really believed it. So were you at a 2:04:39.080 --> 2:04:43.160 transitional phase in your life where that song came right 2:04:43.240 --> 2:04:43.600 in time? 2:04:44.520 --> 2:04:48.280 Okay? So before I left the group, before I left 2:04:48.320 --> 2:04:51.400 Salomar at the time, like two or three years, two 2:04:51.480 --> 2:04:54.720 or three years before I left Salomar, I always had 2:04:55.000 --> 2:04:57.840 the situation I wanted to do a solo album. So 2:04:58.240 --> 2:05:02.080 I remember praying, seriously, pray prayer. I said, Lord, when 2:05:02.080 --> 2:05:04.920 I'm by myself, when I'm solo, when I'm when I'm 2:05:05.000 --> 2:05:08.320 responsible for what I say, I said, I promised that 2:05:08.480 --> 2:05:12.000 I will honor you on every solo project that I do, 2:05:12.640 --> 2:05:15.680 you know, and and I have. So say Man was 2:05:15.760 --> 2:05:18.720 the first, was on the Ey Committal Love album was 2:05:18.720 --> 2:05:21.880 the first solo and then on and on. But when 2:05:21.920 --> 2:05:26.760 I finally rolled my contract out, I had a lecture, 2:05:27.240 --> 2:05:29.920 you know, if you know the term electure, had first 2:05:30.040 --> 2:05:34.520 rights or refusal on everything that came off of Solar Right, 2:05:35.080 --> 2:05:37.320 So I had to give them. I had to. I 2:05:37.440 --> 2:05:40.680 had to go through them before I could go anywhere else, 2:05:40.840 --> 2:05:43.839 you know, as far as my solo situation was concerned. 2:05:43.880 --> 2:05:47.080 So you know, at the time, e lecture was like 2:05:47.200 --> 2:05:49.640 cold as ice. They didn't they had. All they had 2:05:49.720 --> 2:05:52.440 over there was the eagles and and and that whole thing, 2:05:52.480 --> 2:05:56.360 and and and so. Like I told my attorney, I said, okay, 2:05:56.440 --> 2:05:59.680 so they have to have first rights or refusal, and 2:05:59.760 --> 2:06:02.640 they in other words, they have to you know, decline 2:06:03.240 --> 2:06:05.720 the deal that we bring to them. You know, you 2:06:05.760 --> 2:06:08.360 know what I'm saying. So I said, if that's the case, 2:06:08.680 --> 2:06:12.360 why don't we just make this deal so ridiculous that 2:06:13.400 --> 2:06:15.280 they're gonna decline it. 2:06:15.520 --> 2:06:17.600 You did, so you. 2:06:20.480 --> 2:06:23.040 Put all kinds of stuff in there, bumps here. 2:06:23.320 --> 2:06:23.480 You know. 2:06:23.800 --> 2:06:27.360 The money was like unheard of for the first time 2:06:27.440 --> 2:06:29.920 solo arts, even though I had the success with Shalamar, 2:06:30.080 --> 2:06:34.200 was crazy. And we took it to him, Bob Krasnow, 2:06:34.280 --> 2:06:35.280 who was head of them. 2:06:35.640 --> 2:06:40.240 Yeah, Bob says, he calls your bluff. 2:06:40.720 --> 2:06:42.760 He says, okay, what else. 2:06:45.400 --> 2:06:45.560 You know? 2:06:45.840 --> 2:06:49.560 So so, like, you know, okay, they accepted it. So 2:06:49.680 --> 2:06:52.360 it was a great deal monetarily, and the company was 2:06:52.400 --> 2:06:54.400 a great turnout to be a company, a great company, 2:06:54.440 --> 2:06:59.840 but it was almost like I just describe a Solar 2:07:00.480 --> 2:07:04.440 Electra like a twelve cylinder car and you're only running 2:07:04.480 --> 2:07:08.160 on six cylinders, you know what I'm saying. And because 2:07:08.200 --> 2:07:10.640 they did their job, they did their situation as far 2:07:10.720 --> 2:07:14.760 as the urban R and B situations concerned, but the 2:07:14.880 --> 2:07:17.280 pop department over there never came to the party. So 2:07:17.880 --> 2:07:19.680 you know, it was like it was a whole thing. 2:07:19.800 --> 2:07:23.720 But getting back to when I first went to the thing, 2:07:24.520 --> 2:07:27.400 I had the new record company and I had a 2:07:27.520 --> 2:07:31.480 new management company. So this was in nineteen eighty five 2:07:31.880 --> 2:07:34.520 when I first left the group, and so I had 2:07:34.560 --> 2:07:37.120 a meeting with the new record company. I had a 2:07:37.240 --> 2:07:40.360 meeting with an RCAT and a new record company had 2:07:40.400 --> 2:07:42.960 a meeting and with the new management company that I 2:07:43.040 --> 2:07:46.120 had hired, and I went in. I was excited about 2:07:46.160 --> 2:07:50.320 doing my first solo project. Shook everybody's hand, and I 2:07:50.440 --> 2:07:52.760 sat down and I said, first of all, before we 2:07:52.840 --> 2:07:56.840 get started in this meeting, I said, I want to 2:07:56.880 --> 2:07:58.760 say I want to do a song to the Lord 2:07:58.920 --> 2:07:59.600 on this album. 2:08:00.560 --> 2:08:02.440 It was like, that's how you started the. 2:08:02.440 --> 2:08:06.760 Meeting, That's how I started the meeting, Okay, And so 2:08:07.400 --> 2:08:08.840 I want to do a song to the Lord on 2:08:08.960 --> 2:08:12.560 this and like it's like you can hear crickets in there. 2:08:12.720 --> 2:08:15.160 This is eighty five. This I don't know when Jesus 2:08:15.240 --> 2:08:16.320 Is Love came out, but. 2:08:16.640 --> 2:08:19.400 This, that was eighty But again it was a rare move, 2:08:19.640 --> 2:08:24.120 like open the door. You normalized it when you did it, 2:08:24.320 --> 2:08:25.560 then everyone started doing it. 2:08:25.800 --> 2:08:28.880 Or real but it wasn't. But at the time it 2:08:29.040 --> 2:08:31.000 was like, you know, I'm talking about putting you know, 2:08:31.120 --> 2:08:34.800 Denise would do a gospel album, then she come back 2:08:34.840 --> 2:08:36.560 and do an R and B album. I was talking 2:08:36.600 --> 2:08:39.800 about combining putting that on there. You know what I'm saying. 2:08:39.880 --> 2:08:44.000 And so like you know, this one cat starts talking, well, 2:08:44.360 --> 2:08:46.760 you know Howard, you don't we might get into we 2:08:46.880 --> 2:08:49.160 want to take your career in the sex symbol direction, 2:08:49.400 --> 2:08:54.560 might not be conducive to religious overtones, and this and 2:08:54.640 --> 2:08:56.720 that and that and this, and then my management companies, 2:08:56.840 --> 2:08:58.720 the cat from my management he started talking because I 2:08:58.800 --> 2:09:01.680 hadn't even talked to him about that yet, right, And 2:09:01.840 --> 2:09:05.560 so I'm sitting again, I said, I sat, I sat 2:09:05.640 --> 2:09:08.080 back and I listened. I listened what they were saying, 2:09:08.480 --> 2:09:10.760 and all the time in my head, I'm saying, okay, Lord, 2:09:10.840 --> 2:09:13.400 you know what am I supposed to do here? 2:09:13.560 --> 2:09:14.280 You know what I'm saying. 2:09:14.800 --> 2:09:17.800 And so when they got done talking, I said, you 2:09:17.880 --> 2:09:22.360 know what, I hear you, and I understand you, and 2:09:22.480 --> 2:09:25.040 I can I can dig where you're coming from. I said, 2:09:25.080 --> 2:09:27.800 but maybe because because in my mind too, man, is 2:09:27.880 --> 2:09:30.880 that these people got to promote my record. I don't 2:09:30.920 --> 2:09:33.200 want to get anybody, you. 2:09:33.240 --> 2:09:35.280 Know, if you want to give them something that they're 2:09:35.360 --> 2:09:36.600 enthusiastic about as well. 2:09:36.680 --> 2:09:39.720 Yeah, sour about promoting the record and stuff. But I 2:09:40.320 --> 2:09:43.280 had to stand, you know, I had to stand for 2:09:43.400 --> 2:09:46.800 what I had promised. And when I said, I said, look, 2:09:47.360 --> 2:09:49.440 I said, I understand it. I hear where you're coming from. 2:09:49.520 --> 2:09:51.880 This nineteen eighty five, I said, But let me just 2:09:52.040 --> 2:09:55.440 let me let me go back and let me rephrase 2:09:55.640 --> 2:09:59.720 what I said. I said, let me say that I'm 2:09:59.800 --> 2:10:01.160 going wanting to do a song. 2:10:04.200 --> 2:10:06.040 Ask him, and asked, like. 2:10:06.120 --> 2:10:07.920 I'm going to do a song to the Lord on 2:10:08.040 --> 2:10:13.200 this album. Hit My promise to him sits up here 2:10:13.400 --> 2:10:16.840 as far as like my priorities and if it's like 2:10:17.040 --> 2:10:19.920 you know, and and I'm going to do a song 2:10:20.000 --> 2:10:22.080 to the Lord on this album. So I said, we 2:10:22.160 --> 2:10:24.160 can talk about everything else now, you know. So we 2:10:24.280 --> 2:10:26.960 talked about everything else, and then then you know, we 2:10:27.080 --> 2:10:32.080 went away once once Monte Seward, who's co writer on 2:10:32.240 --> 2:10:35.280 that on that on Same Men. When we put it, 2:10:35.400 --> 2:10:38.520 when we put it together, man, it was like it 2:10:38.640 --> 2:10:42.560 was great. But I will say that it was nineteen 2:10:42.600 --> 2:10:47.080 eighty five around that time or so, and then I 2:10:48.520 --> 2:10:51.160 I was dating as a girl in Miami. Litt was. 2:10:51.480 --> 2:10:55.720 Her family was in Miami. So I remember we were 2:10:55.760 --> 2:10:58.400 going to spend Thanksgiving there with her family. She had 2:10:58.440 --> 2:11:00.920 moved to la and we were going to send spend Thanksgiving. 2:11:01.040 --> 2:11:03.400 So I was in the in the studio, you know, 2:11:03.800 --> 2:11:05.880 the whole day, and she had already flown down there, 2:11:06.280 --> 2:11:08.480 and I was gonna get on the Red Eye and 2:11:08.600 --> 2:11:11.480 meet her there, right. So I get on a plane 2:11:12.240 --> 2:11:16.160 and Monty and I had come up with the track, 2:11:16.360 --> 2:11:20.200 like a real rough track for SA Men, and I 2:11:20.280 --> 2:11:23.000 knew that's what I wanted to be, you know, the 2:11:23.320 --> 2:11:27.160 inspirational song. So I jump on the red Eye going 2:11:27.240 --> 2:11:29.680 to Miami and I get on the plane, I put 2:11:29.720 --> 2:11:32.560 my headphones on, I put the cassette in. It was 2:11:32.680 --> 2:11:35.080 on the cassette, you know, and so I was listening 2:11:35.120 --> 2:11:37.040 to about three or four songs that I still had 2:11:37.080 --> 2:11:40.040 to write melodies and lyrics to. And at the end 2:11:40.120 --> 2:11:43.200 of that cassette was a was like a real rough 2:11:43.440 --> 2:11:46.440 track of say Men, I mean one of the and 2:11:46.520 --> 2:11:48.440 it didn't even go all the way through it just 2:11:48.600 --> 2:11:50.600 you know, it's just a real rough track of Samen. 2:11:51.480 --> 2:11:56.440 And when it came on, all these lyrics started coming 2:11:56.480 --> 2:11:59.040 to me, and it's like, you know, it's time to 2:11:59.080 --> 2:12:02.440 say goodbye from now. You know, we'll have our second 2:12:02.480 --> 2:12:05.040 time around, second time around. You know we'll have our 2:12:05.120 --> 2:12:07.920 second time around. But before we go, there's something I 2:12:08.000 --> 2:12:10.160 got to say. Everything's not what it seems. There's a 2:12:10.560 --> 2:12:13.760 stronger force behind the scene. He's in our lives every day. 2:12:14.160 --> 2:12:15.920 He's right there when we call and him it's where 2:12:16.640 --> 2:12:18.360 And I'm writing and I'm writing, and there was this 2:12:18.520 --> 2:12:21.080 lady sitting next to me. And then when I got 2:12:21.160 --> 2:12:24.240 to the second I got to the second verse where 2:12:24.280 --> 2:12:27.480 it says talks about cattle on a thousand hills. My 2:12:27.600 --> 2:12:29.680 mom used to always tell me when I was a kid, 2:12:30.240 --> 2:12:33.440 she says, you're the King's kid. You're the King's kid, 2:12:33.960 --> 2:12:35.880 you know, and the king and he had you know, 2:12:36.080 --> 2:12:38.880 your God's child. This is what she was saying. And 2:12:39.000 --> 2:12:41.600 there's and she would always tell them there's golden cattle 2:12:41.640 --> 2:12:44.560 on a thousand hills, and that's yours. You know, that's 2:12:44.640 --> 2:12:47.440 yours because you're you're the King's kid, that's ours. You know, 2:12:47.520 --> 2:12:50.320 we're children of the God's God. And so when I 2:12:50.440 --> 2:12:52.880 started writing now, I said, you know, I know there's 2:12:52.880 --> 2:12:55.280 someone who don't believe. Sometimes it's very hard to see 2:12:55.520 --> 2:12:59.400 living those life every day. Some things don't go away, 2:12:59.680 --> 2:13:03.120 but be without is not his will. There's cattle on 2:13:03.240 --> 2:13:07.200 a thousand hills. Man, it hit me. I'm like writing 2:13:07.240 --> 2:13:08.640 it's cattle on a thousand hells. 2:13:08.680 --> 2:13:09.680 There it hit me. 2:13:09.760 --> 2:13:13.240 There, tears started coming down, and this lady sitting next 2:13:13.280 --> 2:13:19.880 to me, like, what the hell is happening? Oh, you know, 2:13:20.320 --> 2:13:22.320 can I can I move my seat or something like that. 2:13:22.760 --> 2:13:27.000 But by the time by time it touched down in 2:13:27.280 --> 2:13:31.880 h at Miami International Lyrically, the song was totally done. 2:13:32.120 --> 2:13:33.840 It's crazy because you know, most people when they hear 2:13:33.920 --> 2:13:35.880 that song, no matter how many times they hear that song, 2:13:36.040 --> 2:13:38.560 they feel the same way you felt when you wrote it. 2:13:38.720 --> 2:13:40.960 Like it's one of those songs where it just catch 2:13:41.000 --> 2:13:42.120 you no matter where you are, Like. 2:13:43.360 --> 2:13:45.680 It's an ultimate It's an ultimate craze song. 2:13:46.240 --> 2:13:48.280 How they go to a single. They didn't even want 2:13:48.320 --> 2:13:49.040 the gospel song. 2:13:49.120 --> 2:13:52.040 And then it became a single because they playing they 2:13:52.080 --> 2:13:54.240 were playing the album cut on black radio, right, they 2:13:54.280 --> 2:13:54.720 had to make. 2:13:54.680 --> 2:13:56.200 So that Black radio made it a single. 2:13:56.560 --> 2:13:58.880 Yeah, they played it. I mean, you know, Donnie Simpson 2:13:59.040 --> 2:14:03.760 ended in show, so he ended with a whole bunch 2:14:03.840 --> 2:14:08.360 of black radio uh shows across the across the country, 2:14:09.000 --> 2:14:11.320 you know, uh ended it with it. And and then 2:14:11.400 --> 2:14:16.680 I did it at one of Black Black Radio Exclusive 2:14:16.720 --> 2:14:20.040 b r E. Remember I was sitting Miller's things. I 2:14:20.160 --> 2:14:23.920 closed up the closed up the whole uh uh convention 2:14:24.120 --> 2:14:24.680 with that song. 2:14:24.760 --> 2:14:28.120 And so I remember from from like you did it 2:14:28.160 --> 2:14:31.880 also on the Robert Townsend part of the Grime Robert Towns. 2:14:32.880 --> 2:14:35.040 Yeah, when Robert, when Robert got in touch with me, 2:14:35.120 --> 2:14:37.640 that's because I'm still my boy. We we you know, 2:14:37.760 --> 2:14:42.000 we're really good friends still now. But like when he 2:14:42.160 --> 2:14:44.640 approached me about it, he called it and called and 2:14:44.760 --> 2:14:46.600 asked and asked for a meeting. So I went over 2:14:46.680 --> 2:14:49.560 to where he was doing some stuff and went into 2:14:49.640 --> 2:14:51.640 the office and stuff, and he says, man, you know, 2:14:51.680 --> 2:14:55.160 I'm getting ready to do my my uh my Partners 2:14:55.240 --> 2:14:58.360 the Crime, my you know, HBO special, and he said, 2:14:58.560 --> 2:15:00.920 I would love for you to do you say amen? 2:15:01.160 --> 2:15:03.600 I said, oh man, that's what's up. Okay, that's cool. 2:15:04.080 --> 2:15:07.160 I love to be honest. And then he says, I 2:15:07.320 --> 2:15:15.680 want to sing it with you. Oh like and my mind, 2:15:15.760 --> 2:15:18.120 you know, do you sing? I mean, I don't know 2:15:18.160 --> 2:15:22.000 if you and I guess because I don't, you know, 2:15:22.200 --> 2:15:24.400 my face kind of tells all kind of stuff when 2:15:24.400 --> 2:15:28.160 I'm thinking. Sometimes unfortunate, but like, you know, he looked 2:15:28.200 --> 2:15:30.320 at me and he said, hey, man, you know, this 2:15:30.560 --> 2:15:33.600 is my first special, this is my first HIO special. 2:15:33.720 --> 2:15:36.320 And I couldn't find I couldn't think of any other 2:15:36.440 --> 2:15:39.200 way to thank God, you know, for this first special 2:15:40.120 --> 2:15:42.920 thing in this with you, and it came off so 2:15:43.280 --> 2:15:48.000 cool and and what was interesting about that was that 2:15:49.040 --> 2:15:52.839 at the time when the Partners in Crime uh special 2:15:53.000 --> 2:15:58.360 air I was my second solo album, had already been released. 2:15:58.400 --> 2:16:01.200 I commit to Love was in the bend second oh forever, 2:16:01.280 --> 2:16:05.160 and never was out. Yeah, I've already been released. But 2:16:05.320 --> 2:16:09.280 once that, once Partners in Crime aired across the country, 2:16:09.680 --> 2:16:13.080 you know, record stores had to reorder I Commit to 2:16:13.120 --> 2:16:16.800 Love because everybody flowed, you know, flooded in, you know, 2:16:16.960 --> 2:16:19.120 looking for say amen, you know. 2:16:19.320 --> 2:16:21.040 I was gonna say it was it was was this 2:16:21.200 --> 2:16:23.440 the this is pre Sylvia Rome. So this is like 2:16:23.480 --> 2:16:28.640 the Bob Maryland era of Electriob Merton. Bob Merland always 2:16:28.640 --> 2:16:32.040 called Marland. Was he there at the time or is 2:16:32.120 --> 2:16:35.640 it now? Well Rock President was ahead, but Merlin, Bob 2:16:35.720 --> 2:16:37.080 wasn't there at the time, was he or did he 2:16:37.160 --> 2:16:38.520 come in like eighty eight eighty nine? 2:16:38.640 --> 2:16:40.400 Okay, I don't, I don't remember him, but. 2:16:40.480 --> 2:16:43.800 That I didn't. I mean, but afterwards, did they of 2:16:43.920 --> 2:16:47.840 course acknowledge that? Okay? You was he was on point 2:16:47.879 --> 2:16:48.080 with this. 2:16:48.920 --> 2:16:51.920 Then, you know, because Bob and I had had had 2:16:52.120 --> 2:16:56.360 created a routine of like whenever I would start, whenever 2:16:56.400 --> 2:16:58.760 I get ready to start an album, I would I 2:16:58.800 --> 2:17:00.400 would call it. If I was in the New York, 2:17:00.840 --> 2:17:02.800 I go have a meeting with him. If I was 2:17:02.879 --> 2:17:05.680 here and here's in New York. We we talk on 2:17:05.800 --> 2:17:08.560 the phone and just talk about and talk about the direction, 2:17:08.800 --> 2:17:10.600 talk about what I want to do, blah blah blah 2:17:10.600 --> 2:17:13.800 blah blah. And at the end of every after say man, 2:17:14.200 --> 2:17:16.920 at the end of every conversation, Bob say, well, I 2:17:17.640 --> 2:17:19.960 know you're gonna do another one of those gods songs, right, 2:17:24.840 --> 2:17:26.240 I'm gonna do another guy song. 2:17:26.320 --> 2:17:26.879 It's gonna be. 2:17:28.560 --> 2:17:32.920 Because, of course, after the success and the popularity is say, man, 2:17:33.040 --> 2:17:35.760 of course it was. It was everybody's idea. Then you know, 2:17:36.520 --> 2:17:37.320 wait they. 2:17:37.320 --> 2:17:38.120 Took credit for it. 2:17:38.680 --> 2:17:42.039 Yeah yeah yeah, so wait before we wrap, I got one. 2:17:42.520 --> 2:17:45.720 Unless you had something I just wanted to say, man, 2:17:47.400 --> 2:17:50.080 show me, yes, thank you. I don't know. 2:17:50.320 --> 2:17:53.600 I don't know if you know, like how popular that is. 2:17:53.959 --> 2:17:57.440 Me and my wife we danced a step that is 2:17:57.520 --> 2:18:00.600 a very popular stepping song, you know what I mean. 2:18:00.720 --> 2:18:03.960 But that's just I just a gorgeous song man, beautiful 2:18:04.280 --> 2:18:05.160 performance everything. 2:18:05.680 --> 2:18:07.840 What was the inspiration for that? And what was it 2:18:08.000 --> 2:18:08.600 like recording it? 2:18:10.000 --> 2:18:15.720 Don nettlesby and uh Terry Kochay. You know it was 2:18:15.800 --> 2:18:19.120 this writing partner, Terry kole Fay. It was actually coffee, 2:18:19.160 --> 2:18:23.560 he spelled it, but he wanted to co face. So 2:18:23.680 --> 2:18:27.000 that's cool. That's all good, you know. So they wrote 2:18:27.080 --> 2:18:29.600 this track. I forget how we got, I forget how 2:18:29.720 --> 2:18:33.440 we connected, but they got this track to me, man, 2:18:33.680 --> 2:18:37.080 and like and when when I heard this track, I 2:18:37.280 --> 2:18:39.800 just moved into this new crib and I didn't have 2:18:39.920 --> 2:18:43.280 any recording equipment up or anything. So I'm like, I 2:18:43.400 --> 2:18:45.840 got this track, and I was like, man, this track 2:18:45.959 --> 2:18:50.400 is amazing. It's an amazing, amazing track. And so I 2:18:50.440 --> 2:18:52.920 didn't have any recording equipment set up, so I had, 2:18:53.040 --> 2:18:56.680 but I had two boomboxes that recorded you did. So 2:18:56.800 --> 2:18:58.880 I laid down in the in the middle of my 2:18:59.000 --> 2:19:02.960 floor and up in my up in my bedroom, and 2:19:03.080 --> 2:19:06.360 I had like probably a bottle red wine, you know, 2:19:07.600 --> 2:19:10.520 and I put one box on one side, one box 2:19:10.560 --> 2:19:14.000 on this I put concess in and I started bouncing things, 2:19:14.360 --> 2:19:16.760 you know, from that, and I started coming up with 2:19:17.080 --> 2:19:20.360 with h you know, different scenarios, different things I wanted 2:19:20.400 --> 2:19:23.920 to think about things that romantic stuff that I wanted 2:19:23.959 --> 2:19:26.119 to do with my woman, for my woman and all 2:19:26.160 --> 2:19:29.640 that and like and then that hook came. And then 2:19:29.720 --> 2:19:33.560 the hook was just so money man. It was just 2:19:33.720 --> 2:19:35.520 it was you know, it was like you know, like 2:19:35.800 --> 2:19:37.960 you do some songs in it in it and and 2:19:38.080 --> 2:19:41.880 it's like fighting you pulling teeth to make just go 2:19:42.200 --> 2:19:48.000 here and they fit melody and you know, uh, praising 2:19:48.080 --> 2:19:50.640 life man, show me. It was like butter and it 2:19:50.879 --> 2:19:54.760 just came down and were like you to let me know, 2:19:55.680 --> 2:20:05.840 just to let this go, hell me show me, you know, 2:20:06.840 --> 2:20:10.199 it's like and then the video was like crazy. 2:20:09.959 --> 2:20:17.640 Man, I remember that video. Yeah, of course you know 2:20:17.720 --> 2:20:22.480 what was hated. Yeah we did, yeah, very much, so 2:20:22.879 --> 2:20:23.240 very much. 2:20:23.280 --> 2:20:25.520 So I just wanted to say, if I was USh 2:20:25.720 --> 2:20:28.160 must be a very religious experience. And the way that 2:20:28.240 --> 2:20:30.520 you put these songs together and the way that the 2:20:31.000 --> 2:20:33.120 at least the ladies or if some of the fellas 2:20:33.240 --> 2:20:36.760 received them live, like do you see that in the 2:20:36.840 --> 2:20:38.960 crowd do you see people responding in a way that's 2:20:39.040 --> 2:20:42.599 like like most shows crazy. 2:20:42.640 --> 2:20:45.640 It's crazy. If I had a dollar for every time 2:20:45.720 --> 2:20:49.400 a cat came up to me, man, you helped me out, Man, 2:20:52.000 --> 2:20:54.760 i'd be I'd be a multi millionaire at this time. 2:20:54.840 --> 2:20:58.080 And and like I always say, you know, my thing 2:20:58.240 --> 2:21:02.040 is like, you know, some cats don't know what to say, 2:21:02.400 --> 2:21:05.760 you know what I'm saying. So my thing is like, okay, 2:21:05.800 --> 2:21:07.880 I'll give you what to say. You can say, listen 2:21:07.920 --> 2:21:11.520 to Howard listen out show me uh once twice three times, 2:21:12.600 --> 2:21:15.440 you know, and and listen to how I listen and 2:21:15.560 --> 2:21:17.720 I tell them, now I can get you to the bedroom. 2:21:18.200 --> 2:21:20.560 I can get you through the bedroom. Door, but you 2:21:20.680 --> 2:21:26.640 got the bedroom with you, right, So I like all 2:21:26.720 --> 2:21:29.960 the credit. And then when I do, when I do 2:21:30.080 --> 2:21:32.840 the shows, I mean, it's so it's so beautiful because 2:21:33.000 --> 2:21:37.560 you know, before BC, before COVID, anyway, I would spend 2:21:37.640 --> 2:21:40.320 most of my time in the audience rather than on 2:21:40.520 --> 2:21:43.920 stage because I like to I like to feel my audience. 2:21:44.000 --> 2:21:46.800 I like to have them participate. And it's a beautiful 2:21:46.879 --> 2:21:49.480 thing because you know a lot of cats, they're there 2:21:49.520 --> 2:21:52.120 with their women and they're with the lady and their 2:21:52.160 --> 2:21:58.680 pointing come sing to her. Yeah, you know, because she 2:21:58.720 --> 2:21:59.359 ain't gone. 2:21:59.160 --> 2:22:04.160 Home with me? Right, I love it all Right? 2:22:04.320 --> 2:22:07.040 Well, I got to ask this one last question because 2:22:07.240 --> 2:22:09.520 you know, I've asked one too many souldiering questions. But 2:22:10.680 --> 2:22:14.000 I know that you took over the theme to the 2:22:14.080 --> 2:22:18.280 show in eighty seven with George Duke. What was what 2:22:18.480 --> 2:22:21.119 was the well, Like, what was the process? Like basically 2:22:21.200 --> 2:22:22.960 Don just asked you guys to do it? Or like, 2:22:23.120 --> 2:22:24.400 how how did that go down? 2:22:24.840 --> 2:22:27.080 Don asked George to do it, and George asked me 2:22:27.200 --> 2:22:29.400 to do it. You know what I'm saying. So it 2:22:29.520 --> 2:22:32.280 wasn't it wasn't a collaborative situation as far as I 2:22:32.280 --> 2:22:35.000 ask concerned. But you know, George said, George, you know, 2:22:35.120 --> 2:22:36.880 George and I wrote a bunch of stuff, you know, 2:22:37.040 --> 2:22:39.680 through the years, and a bunch of theme songs for 2:22:39.760 --> 2:22:43.280 this and and that and and I mean we did 2:22:44.080 --> 2:22:47.520 a song for he said. He said, how I want 2:22:47.560 --> 2:22:50.320 you to come write these lyrics, you know, for this 2:22:50.959 --> 2:22:54.039 pop artist over in Japan. Right, I forget the cat's name, 2:22:54.480 --> 2:22:57.160 he said, But you can't get deep. This dude is 2:22:57.200 --> 2:22:59.480 not deep. You can't get deep. It's got to be shallow. 2:23:02.400 --> 2:23:05.440 So I love you, you baby. On my mind, I 2:23:05.480 --> 2:23:07.600 think about that time. 2:23:08.600 --> 2:23:13.520 I wrote called New York Girl. You know, it's like 2:23:13.680 --> 2:23:16.560 it's like, you know, I can't even remember the lyrics, 2:23:16.600 --> 2:23:19.800 but but it was. That's the perfect But now with 2:23:19.959 --> 2:23:24.480 the Souldier Award thing, uh don, George was taken over 2:23:24.600 --> 2:23:27.000 all the stuff as far as that's concerned. And then 2:23:27.040 --> 2:23:28.880 he asked me to come in and do uh do 2:23:29.640 --> 2:23:34.040 some ad libs and stuff on the on the So yeah, 2:23:34.760 --> 2:23:35.360 So what is. 2:23:35.360 --> 2:23:38.920 It, I guess in closing, what is it that you've 2:23:39.240 --> 2:23:41.920 what is it that you've learned that made you a 2:23:42.120 --> 2:23:45.959 wiser human being? Like it just in your your your 2:23:46.160 --> 2:23:49.360 your journey mm hmm to this point that that's brought 2:23:49.400 --> 2:23:52.040 you here to this day, that still has you here. 2:23:52.959 --> 2:23:55.360 You know, that's that's the deep question, because you know, 2:23:55.480 --> 2:23:59.879 you learn so much on your way, in different scenarios, 2:24:00.400 --> 2:24:03.760 in different places. I think one of the things though, 2:24:03.920 --> 2:24:08.120 that's most important as as an artist for me and 2:24:08.360 --> 2:24:11.360 as a man, as with your integrity, as far as 2:24:11.440 --> 2:24:14.360 as concerned, is to let your yes be yes, and 2:24:14.440 --> 2:24:17.640 your no byo no. You know what I'm saying, Understand 2:24:17.879 --> 2:24:20.400 and do and say what you're gonna do, what you're 2:24:20.440 --> 2:24:23.720 gonna You know, like I said in the earlier situation, 2:24:23.959 --> 2:24:27.080 my word was was worth more even before I knew 2:24:27.120 --> 2:24:30.400 that my word was worth more than than anything any 2:24:30.400 --> 2:24:33.960 piece of paper I could sign. You know, your integrity 2:24:34.040 --> 2:24:38.320 will follow you through this business closer than anything else will. 2:24:38.640 --> 2:24:40.800 All you can do, you can do all that, you 2:24:40.879 --> 2:24:42.920 can have all the hit records you want, all the 2:24:43.440 --> 2:24:45.680 you know, the love people love. But if you are 2:24:46.000 --> 2:24:50.680 a flaky person and and and and deal in uh 2:24:50.879 --> 2:24:55.440 situations where your integrity is not you know intact, you 2:24:55.520 --> 2:24:59.120 know is it doesn't mean anything. It really doesn't mean 2:24:59.120 --> 2:25:00.840 because at the end of the day to day it's 2:25:00.879 --> 2:25:03.760 going to be about who this man, what you as 2:25:03.879 --> 2:25:06.960 a man is about what are you about? You know, 2:25:07.240 --> 2:25:09.920 you can do all the music and people say, what 2:25:09.959 --> 2:25:12.600 do you want? What do you want your music? Want 2:25:12.680 --> 2:25:15.160 people to remember about your music? I want to remember 2:25:15.240 --> 2:25:18.960 the integrity in my music that I stayed. I stayed 2:25:19.200 --> 2:25:22.280 in av I have people saying you should put rapper 2:25:22.280 --> 2:25:23.880 and you used to put a rap thing, you should 2:25:23.959 --> 2:25:26.520 do some talk about you know, sex and all this 2:25:26.720 --> 2:25:29.800 kind of stuff. Now that's not my lane. You know 2:25:29.840 --> 2:25:33.040 what I'm saying. My lane is like here and stay here, 2:25:33.120 --> 2:25:37.040 and I have to. When I got in this business, 2:25:37.360 --> 2:25:43.600 I wanted to be I wanted to achieve longevity. I 2:25:43.680 --> 2:25:46.240 didn't want to just come into this business, make a 2:25:46.320 --> 2:25:48.400 couple of hit records and then go laid out on 2:25:48.520 --> 2:25:50.840 the beach. You know what I'm saying. I wanted to 2:25:50.920 --> 2:25:53.000 work at it. I wanted to work the work ethic, 2:25:53.120 --> 2:25:56.920 what it takes to keep and stay and keep your 2:25:56.959 --> 2:26:02.720 integrity in this business. And as a man, you know, man, 2:26:02.840 --> 2:26:06.280 it's like you know where I where I've come as 2:26:06.320 --> 2:26:08.880 far as where I am now, is that I can 2:26:08.959 --> 2:26:12.080 look in the mirror and say I like that cat. 2:26:12.280 --> 2:26:14.840 He's cool. It's all right, It's cool. You know what 2:26:14.920 --> 2:26:18.959 I'm saying, and I've had my my, my, my craziness 2:26:19.560 --> 2:26:23.760 and all that, but hey, it's about you know, praise God. 2:26:24.480 --> 2:26:26.920 That's that's all I can say. Praise God. 2:26:27.840 --> 2:26:28.640 That's all you can say. 2:26:28.720 --> 2:26:31.840 Man, Well, thank you very much, brother Ewett, thank you 2:26:32.000 --> 2:26:35.480 for doing our show. It's been a pleasure. 2:26:36.760 --> 2:26:38.800 Pleasure, zero my pleasure, sugar. 2:26:38.879 --> 2:26:40.840 Steve, are you are you gearing up to. 2:26:40.879 --> 2:26:44.800 Say knocked out over there a minute ago? 2:26:45.760 --> 2:26:50.240 Now that's just the weired talking. I'm serious. I'm on 2:26:50.360 --> 2:26:54.480 the scissor tonight. So you got a cold. I never 2:26:54.520 --> 2:26:59.040 went fully unconscious. But wait, Steve, you're sick. Oh. 2:26:59.080 --> 2:27:01.280 I told you tell people that you got to do 2:27:01.320 --> 2:27:02.160 disclaimers and stuff. 2:27:02.160 --> 2:27:03.119 You can't just put that out there. 2:27:05.520 --> 2:27:05.959 A good thing. 2:27:06.040 --> 2:27:10.000 We're on zoom, right, I said, But look they worked, Sieve, 2:27:10.200 --> 2:27:11.240 like three hours ago. 2:27:16.440 --> 2:27:18.680 I was gonna say, Howard man, like some years ago. 2:27:18.879 --> 2:27:21.200 This has been over a decade ago. I actually met you. 2:27:21.360 --> 2:27:22.960 I ran in you. It was real quick. 2:27:23.000 --> 2:27:26.400 It was an lax and if I'm not mistaken, I 2:27:26.440 --> 2:27:28.480 think it was it was lax. But you were just 2:27:29.000 --> 2:27:31.000 just as you are now, man, super cool. And I 2:27:31.120 --> 2:27:32.920 just walked up. I was like, yo, man, I'm a 2:27:32.959 --> 2:27:35.960 big fan and like you were just kind of low key, 2:27:36.120 --> 2:27:38.040 so I didn't want to blow your spot up, you 2:27:38.040 --> 2:27:39.120 know what I mean? Because I was like, all right, 2:27:39.120 --> 2:27:41.480 I don't want to make people notice. And then it's 2:27:41.520 --> 2:27:44.080 like thirty more people coming, so I just I was like, yo, 2:27:44.120 --> 2:27:44.440 I'm a fan. 2:27:44.480 --> 2:27:45.800 Brother. He was like, thank you, man, like. 2:27:45.840 --> 2:27:48.160 Super cool, and I started the tweet. I was like, yo, 2:27:48.240 --> 2:27:49.800 I just met how you and I thought, I was like, 2:27:50.280 --> 2:27:52.560 I don't know what was he doing out here, so 2:27:52.720 --> 2:27:57.400 let's me not I don't want to blow spot up 2:27:57.640 --> 2:28:04.400 or whatever, but sneaking, you know, right, But you were 2:28:04.440 --> 2:28:07.280 super cool, and I just I never forgot that man, 2:28:07.360 --> 2:28:09.200 and just where you were a class act and you 2:28:09.320 --> 2:28:09.680 still are. 2:28:09.760 --> 2:28:11.520 And I just thank you for the music and for 2:28:11.560 --> 2:28:13.680 all your con man for absolutely. 2:28:15.120 --> 2:28:17.279 I always say, man, we're all in this thing together. 2:28:17.360 --> 2:28:19.920 Ain't none of us getting out of this thing alive, 2:28:20.080 --> 2:28:21.800 you know what I'm saying, So we might as well 2:28:22.400 --> 2:28:24.560 might as well do this together and be as as 2:28:26.000 --> 2:28:31.640 cordial and respectful and right, you know, as as possible. Unfortunately, 2:28:32.000 --> 2:28:35.280 some of my peers, you know, use their celebrity as 2:28:35.280 --> 2:28:37.840 an excuse to be rude to people. But you know, 2:28:38.000 --> 2:28:41.840 it's like, especially in this business, it's like, we're not athletes. 2:28:41.959 --> 2:28:42.080 You know. 2:28:42.280 --> 2:28:46.120 Sometimes athletes they want people to hate them because they'll 2:28:46.160 --> 2:28:48.560 come to the stadium to hate them. But if in 2:28:48.720 --> 2:28:51.560 this business, if somebody hates you, they ain't gonna buy 2:28:51.640 --> 2:28:52.160 your records. 2:28:52.200 --> 2:28:54.920 Are customer service true? 2:28:55.200 --> 2:28:55.720 Truthactly? 2:28:56.160 --> 2:28:59.360 Well, we thank you for doing our show on behalf 2:28:59.400 --> 2:29:05.600 of Scissor Steve and unpaid Bill. Putting the kids to 2:29:05.640 --> 2:29:06.360 bed right now. 2:29:06.480 --> 2:29:10.760 Fontigelo and Laiya this quest love once again the immortal 2:29:11.440 --> 2:29:14.560 Howard Hewitt Quest Love Supreme and we will see you 2:29:14.680 --> 2:29:15.320 next go round. 2:29:15.440 --> 2:29:19.360 Thank you, yo, what's up? 2:29:19.440 --> 2:29:21.680 This is fante. Make sure you keep up with us 2:29:21.720 --> 2:29:24.160 on Instagram at QLs and let us know. 2:29:24.200 --> 2:29:25.959 What you think we should be next to sit down 2:29:26.000 --> 2:29:28.920 with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, all right. 2:29:29.400 --> 2:29:39.080 Peace Must Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. 2:29:42.760 --> 2:29:46.000 For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 2:29:46.240 --> 2:29:49.279 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.