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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Bonbshell. In the last hours,

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Speaker 1: it has been announced the first female federal prisoner to

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Speaker 1: be executed in seventy years. Repeat, the first female federal

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Speaker 1: prisoner will be executed, the first female federal prisoner to

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Speaker 1: be executed in seventy seven, zero years, and you'll see why.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace making Harper is worried her daughter,

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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe, was supposed to pick her up at work.

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Speaker 1: Becky calls her daughter's home and cell phones. There is

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Speaker 1: no answer. When Becky got off work, then she went

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Speaker 1: to the house to look for an order and found

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Speaker 1: Bobby on the floor. She immediately called nine one one.

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Speaker 1: Becky Harper sees her child sprawled out on the wood

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Speaker 1: grained floor, blood all over the room. Basically her innards

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Speaker 1: exposed and she's lifeless. Terrified, Becky tells the nine one

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Speaker 1: one operator it looks like her stomach exploded. It's a

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Speaker 1: gruesome murder. The crime scenes horrific. He was described to

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Speaker 1: me as a bloody snow angel. You were hearing Kathleen

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Speaker 1: Garrett and the TV show solved guys. The mother comes

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Speaker 1: home and finds her daughter there. Dad. She says quote

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Speaker 1: the innerds are supposed that it looks as if her

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Speaker 1: daughter's stomach exploded again. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, with me an all

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Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of it. First of all,

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, renowned family attorney, joining me out of North

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Speaker 1: Carolina at NC Domestic Law dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold,

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Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. You

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Speaker 1: can find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Former

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Speaker 1: please chief of John's Create Chris Buyer's twenty five years

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Speaker 1: on the force now pim Polygrapher at Chris Buyer's Investigations

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Speaker 1: and polygraph dot com. Ben Levitan telecommunications expert. We've called

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Speaker 1: on him many times before for his expertise and knowledge.

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Speaker 1: He's at ben Levitan dot com. Doctor Kendall Crowns, the

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Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That is all Austin

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Speaker 1: joining us. But first to Crime Online dot com and

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Sierra Gillespie. Sierra, why did Becky Harper go

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Speaker 1: to her daughter's home? What concerned her? So? Her daughter

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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe was supposed to pick her up from work.

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Speaker 1: This is something that they had pre scheduled planned. Her

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Speaker 1: daughter is pretty reliable, so she expected, you know, her

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Speaker 1: daughter's going to be there to pick her up. So

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Speaker 1: when she never arrived at Becky's work, she kind of

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Speaker 1: got a little nervous, as any mother would, So she

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Speaker 1: walked over to Bobby Joe's house and that's when she

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Speaker 1: found that gruesome crime scene. Where did this happen. This

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Speaker 1: happened in Skidmore, Missouri, which is about two hours south

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Speaker 1: of Lincoln, Nebraska. What can you tell me about Skidmore, Missouri?

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Speaker 1: What is that? What's the population? What do we know

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Speaker 1: about it? Skid More, Missouri. So this is a really

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Speaker 1: small town. The population were waiting on the twenty twenty census,

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Speaker 1: but of the most recent census, it's around two to

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Speaker 1: three hundred people. So I was not expecting that. Skidmore

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Speaker 1: City and Nottaway County, Missouri. You're right, population two hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty four. That is even smaller than where I

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Speaker 1: grew up in rural bib County. Red dirt roads, pine trees,

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Speaker 1: and soybean fields. It's about what all you could see there,

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Speaker 1: and I loved it. So tell me about Skidmore. The reason,

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Speaker 1: Sierra Gillespie is when you're trying to figure out who

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Speaker 1: a perp could be, if they're near a major interstate,

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Speaker 1: if they're in a major metropolitan city where it could

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Speaker 1: be any anybody, if they're you know, close to an airport,

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Speaker 1: some hub of some sort that would bring in strangers.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that's a big negative, right. So this is

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Speaker 1: a super small town. I looked it up on a

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Speaker 1: map because I'd honestly never heard of it, and it

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Speaker 1: is kind of on the border of Iowa and Nebraska there.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty far from Kansas City actually, so it's a really,

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Speaker 1: really small town. The closest interstate you've got is twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: but I don't you wouldn't really have to go through

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Speaker 1: Skidmore to get to any big cities. Guys. We are

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Speaker 1: talking about the sudden and shocking death of a twenty

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Speaker 1: three year old woman, Bobby Joe Stinnett. Her mom comes

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Speaker 1: over when Bobby Joe does not pick her up. The

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Speaker 1: mom from war, the mom, Becky Harper, and comes in

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Speaker 1: to find her daughter dead. To doctor Kendall Crowns, Deputy

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Speaker 1: Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas, that's Austin doctor Crowns. She

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Speaker 1: says that her stomach looked like it exploded. She said,

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Speaker 1: you can see the quote innards, what would that have been?

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Speaker 1: What did she see? So, what she probably was looking

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Speaker 1: at was her intestines and her abdominal organs, because the

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Speaker 1: abdominal organs are not held in place by your rib

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Speaker 1: cage like your chest organs are. So when you cut

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Speaker 1: into the abdomen itself, everything in the abdomen can, if

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Speaker 1: you're standing up, can then come out. So that includes

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Speaker 1: your intestines, your liver, your stomach, even your spleen and pancreas.

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Speaker 1: Kidneys would probably stay in place. But really what she's

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Speaker 1: probably describing as the majority of the intestines laying outside

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Speaker 1: of the body. Take a listen to FBI Criminal Pursuit.

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Speaker 1: He arrives on the scene to find a desperate Becky

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Speaker 1: administering CPR on her unconscious daughter. Bobby Joe was laying

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Speaker 1: on the floor on her back, and I noticed a

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Speaker 1: lot of bloods sheriff takes over CPR in tears, Becky

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Speaker 1: tells him her daughter, he's eight months pregnant. Knight glanced

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Speaker 1: at her stomach and in my mind, I thought No,

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Speaker 1: she's not. Her stomach is too flat, she's not pregnant.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course I can see the knife wounds

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Speaker 1: on the lower abdumen, so I knew then that the

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Speaker 1: baby had been cut out. Whoever attacked Bobby Joe gave

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Speaker 1: her a crude C section. There is no sign of

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Speaker 1: the baby anywhere. EMTs arrive at the home minutes later

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Speaker 1: and transport Bobby Joe to the hospital, but it's too late.

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Speaker 1: Doctors pronounced her dead at four twenty seven pm two

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendal Crowns Depu Medical Examder, Travis County, Austin. I'm

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Speaker 1: guessing the cod cause of death would have been bleeding

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Speaker 1: out lots of blood. Well, the cause of death would

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Speaker 1: probably be sharp horse injuries because of the stab wounds,

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Speaker 1: But the reason why she died would be off or

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Speaker 1: loss of blood. Yet, what major arteries would have been severed? Well,

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Speaker 1: in that situation, it's probably not a major artery that's

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Speaker 1: getting severed. It's more a large group of blood vessels

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Speaker 1: being disrupted by the injuries. So you've got the blood

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Speaker 1: vessels that are involved with the uterus, the blood vessels

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Speaker 1: that are in the abdominal cavity, all those blood vessels

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Speaker 1: would probably been damaged, but you wouldn't get like a

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Speaker 1: major one like the aorta, but more like mesentary vessels

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Speaker 1: and uterine vessels. Well, what blood vessels feed the baby

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Speaker 1: and go to the uterus, the placenta, I mean I

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Speaker 1: would assume that would be a major amount of blood. Well,

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Speaker 1: it is the vessels that feed the uterus, or it's

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Speaker 1: quite a large complex of vessels that are involved with

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Speaker 1: providing a blood supplying to the uterus and then of

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Speaker 1: course the placenta. So they are very if you cut

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Speaker 1: into them, they bleed quite heavily. So those would be

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Speaker 1: the main vessel was involved as the ones involved with

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Speaker 1: the uterus. Again, Doctor Kendall Crowns, I'm just a JD.

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Speaker 1: You're the MD, but I think that the body contains

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Speaker 1: about a little more than a gallon jug of blood.

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Speaker 1: Does your body create more blood when you're pregnant to

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Speaker 1: feed the baby? It does, So a pregnant woman has

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Speaker 1: a higher circulating blood volume than your average person, so

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Speaker 1: they can help nourish the baby with oxygenated blood. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to Kathleen Garrett from Salt three forty three PM.

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Speaker 1: Suriff ben Espy arrives at Bobby jostin his house and

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Speaker 1: immediately takes over CPR from Bobby Joe's distraught mother, Becky Hopper.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty apparent that there had been a violent

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Speaker 1: struggle in the room where this occurred. There was blood

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Speaker 1: everywhere on the room, spattered all over the floor of

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Speaker 1: the walls. It was. It was an awful mess. There

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Speaker 1: was just a massive of am out of smeared blood

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Speaker 1: in that room, probably an unused bedroom area. There were

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Speaker 1: some puppy cages because Bobby Joe raised and sold rat

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Speaker 1: terrier dogs. Bobby Joe was laying on her back in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the room, was blunt, her stomach was exposed.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: the death of a beautiful young woman, Bobby Jay Stinnett,

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Speaker 1: pregnant at the time to doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining

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Speaker 1: us out of Atlanta. I remember when my fiance was murdered.

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Speaker 1: I did not want to see him in the casket.

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Speaker 1: I've rethought that decision over the years and have now

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Speaker 1: decided that was the right thing at that time. Because

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Speaker 1: then just a few years ago, as you know, my

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Speaker 1: dad passed away and I was there when he passed away,

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Speaker 1: and stayed with his body after everybody else left, And

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Speaker 1: that's in my mind forever. I almost wish that it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm glad I did it. I wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: it any other way, but that memory is there. This mom,

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Speaker 1: the mom who discovered her daughter Bobby Joe murdered in

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Speaker 1: this horrible fashion, a crude, barbaric c section, with the

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Speaker 1: baby gone and her daughter there saying she said, her

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Speaker 1: innards are exposed. That her words, how do you get

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Speaker 1: past that memory in your mind? There's no way to

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Speaker 1: wipe it away, Doctor Angie, No, she will always have

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Speaker 1: that picture in her head. I'm sure she will suffer

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Speaker 1: from post traumatic stress disorder because of that, because that's

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Speaker 1: some thing that we suffer from you if you experience

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Speaker 1: something that is completely out of the ordinary as far

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Speaker 1: as trauma goes. She will never get that picture out

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Speaker 1: of her head. There are types of therapy that you

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Speaker 1: can do to help you dissociate how you feel about

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Speaker 1: the trauma from the actual trauma itself, and that helps

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Speaker 1: people to to move forward from thus. But she will

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Speaker 1: never completely get rid of that vision in her head.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard of that doctor Angel. What is that therapy?

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Speaker 1: There's a therapy called E M d R. It has

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Speaker 1: to do with an eye movement. And there's another therapy

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Speaker 1: called brain spotting. And there's some really good people here

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta that are actually and we are a stand

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Speaker 1: for because to me, did you say it has to

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Speaker 1: do with your eyes? Yes, yes, it's an eye It's

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Speaker 1: a therapy in which the therapist as you move your eyes.

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Speaker 1: Have you moved your eyes back and forth? And it's

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Speaker 1: I movement desensitization and ever can't remember what the R

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Speaker 1: stands for? And um, it helps you to. It really

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Speaker 1: does work, Nancy. It helps you to dissociate the trauma

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Speaker 1: from your from the emotions that you feel from the trauma.

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Speaker 1: I'm not buying it, not even for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Sorry you're telling me, I'm rapid. Movement associates the memories

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Speaker 1: from your mind. It dissociates the stealings that you have

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Speaker 1: about the about the trauma from the actual trauma. You

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Speaker 1: will never forget the trauma, but every time you think

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Speaker 1: of the trauma, it won't bring you to that same

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Speaker 1: horrific place that it brought you to when it first happened.

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Speaker 1: It's just to associate the feelings from the trauma. Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to put a pen in

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Speaker 1: that and circle back to this murder h you know,

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Speaker 1: to you Chief Buyers Chris Buyer's former chief of police

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Speaker 1: John's Creek now Chris Buyer's investigations in polygraph dot com.

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Speaker 1: How and the Hey, when you come on a scene

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Speaker 1: like that, do you keep your cool? I remember coming

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Speaker 1: on not a scene like this, but let's say Truble homicide.

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Speaker 1: Something always took over with me at that moment, and

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Speaker 1: all I could think about was evidence and securing the

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Speaker 1: scene and really fast forwarding to the time of trial,

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Speaker 1: how I was going to use this and that and

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Speaker 1: that and this to prove a case. This sheriff comes

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Speaker 1: on and thinks there may be a chance to save

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Speaker 1: the victim. How do you keep your head on at

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Speaker 1: that time? Chief? Yeah, at that point, it's just all

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Speaker 1: about your training. Your training kicks in. It becomes just

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Speaker 1: your secondary movement. You know. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: people forget about when it comes to police officers. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you're a doctor in a hospital whatever, you're expecting

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Speaker 1: this trauma to come to you. When the fire department

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Speaker 1: gets somewhere. It's normally they've been told what they're coming

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Speaker 1: up on. You know, when you're a police officer, you

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Speaker 1: could be working a wreck one second, taking a theft report.

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Speaker 1: You don't even know what you're walking into. So it

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Speaker 1: is all about your training and experience kicks in. There's

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Speaker 1: just something in you that compartmentalizes and pushes you forward

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Speaker 1: to do the job. Compartmentalizes. I guess you're right compartmentalizing. Guys,

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Speaker 1: listen to this, The doctor said, Sheriff, you're running out

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Speaker 1: of time. You're gonna have to find this child very fast.

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Speaker 1: Search of the residence as well as the neighboring area

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Speaker 1: was conducted and the unborn child had not been found.

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Speaker 1: The only information initially obtained during the neighborhood canvas was

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Speaker 1: that a small red car had been seen at the

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Speaker 1: residence earlier in the afternoon. We sealed off a big

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Speaker 1: portionist give more. I had a lot of volunteers looking

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Speaker 1: in dumpsters, looking in the river, looking everywhere possible. They're

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Speaker 1: going to be a baby that would have been tossed away.

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Speaker 1: As the pressure amounts and the case goes more complicated,

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Speaker 1: the sheriff calls for help. It was determined very early

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Speaker 1: on that more investigative officers were needed in this investigation.

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Speaker 1: I suggested to the sheriff that we activate the initial

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Speaker 1: response team of the Northwest Major Case Squad. You're hearing

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Speaker 1: our friend Kathleen Garrett. It's solved straight out to telecommunications

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Speaker 1: expert Ben Levitan joining me from Raleigh. He's at ben

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Speaker 1: Levitan dot com. Ben, what is the name? I just

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Speaker 1: want to say dragnet, but I know that's not the

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Speaker 1: correct name, the name of the device or the practice.

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Speaker 1: When police do a dragnet basically of all the cell

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Speaker 1: phones that were in an area at a certain time,

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Speaker 1: we would call it a cell tower dump. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: if you connect to a cell tower, the cell tower,

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Speaker 1: that's how you get your phone calls to see the

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Speaker 1: phone company keeps track of where your cell tower is

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Speaker 1: by your phone number, and when you leave that cell tower,

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Speaker 1: we deregister you from that cell tower and register you

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Speaker 1: on the next cell tower. So we want to know

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Speaker 1: who was around Bobby Joe's house around the time of

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Speaker 1: the crime. It's it's pretty easy to go talk to

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Speaker 1: the phone company and say, could you dump all a

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Speaker 1: list of all the phone numbers that were here around

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Speaker 1: this time, and what that gives you is a list

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Speaker 1: of everybody who's in the area. The suspect could be

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Speaker 1: in that area, but also witnesses could be in that area.

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Speaker 1: Why isn't that you used all the time? Well, for one,

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Speaker 1: there's probably some legal reasons, you know, lawyer, because it's

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Speaker 1: very intensive, Nancy. In an area like this with only

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Speaker 1: two hundred people, it's not going to be that onerous.

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Speaker 1: But if you're talking about being downtown Manhattan, how many

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Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of people connect to a cell tower

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Speaker 1: every hour it's quite a bit. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: time it's not useful, But in this case it would

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Speaker 1: be useful. If you could have a list of all

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Speaker 1: the phones that were in the vicinity of the house

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Speaker 1: at that time and could dump them. It would probably

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Speaker 1: be pretty simple matter to go through. Number One, you're

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Speaker 1: looking for someone from out of town, so the area

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Speaker 1: code and the phone number are going to be different.

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Speaker 1: So that's the first thing I would look for. Time

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, guys. In the last hours, it's

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Speaker 1: stunning announcement has been made. The first female federal prisoner

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Speaker 1: is set to be put to death, and now we're

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Speaker 1: finding out why first female prisoner in seventy years to

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Speaker 1: be executed. Listen to our friend Kathleen Garrett. At seven

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Speaker 1: eighteen pm, four hours after the nine one one call,

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Speaker 1: a forensic team begins a detailed sweep of the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: It is the bloodiest one they have ever seen. Sergeant

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Speaker 1: Dave Merril to Howard Trope started telling me investigators from

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Speaker 1: Ottawa County in contact with him to borrow additional luminol

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Speaker 1: to spray for blood. Luminol is the chemical used to

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Speaker 1: highlight blood and blood sputer. They wanted a quarter or

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Speaker 1: something as much as they possibly could. That would be

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Speaker 1: an exceptional amount luminol used on a crime scene. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of blood that was lost. There were slippies,

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Speaker 1: you could see what they slept on the floor, and

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Speaker 1: they had rastled around, and there were clots of blood

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Speaker 1: the size of popkins gattered around the room. The blood

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Speaker 1: samples are rushed to the lab for DNA analysis. Bobby

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Speaker 1: Joe's computer is sent to a computer forensic lab in

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Speaker 1: Kansas City, but the crime scene yields few other clues. Okay,

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Speaker 1: right there, what does that mean? Doctor Kendall Crowns, Jeffuty

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Speaker 1: Medical examined Travis County, Texas. That's austin that there were

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Speaker 1: clots of blood. The clots of blood are probably associated

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Speaker 1: with the actual pregnancy. That when the placenta is being

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Speaker 1: removed and torn out of the bobby, you can get

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Speaker 1: blood clots, and also the fragments of placenta can be

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Speaker 1: mistaken as blood clots. You know what to you, Kathleen Murphy,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, family lawyer and family laws, anything but family law.

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Speaker 1: It's so it's like putting your hand between two fighting

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Speaker 1: Rottweiler's Kathleen Murphy, just think about this. Think about this.

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Speaker 1: What was done to this woman, a pregnant woman. I

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Speaker 1: think she was eight or nine months pregnant. To me,

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Speaker 1: that shows you know my point is in court, I

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Speaker 1: know Jackie did and I did. Just then, as doctor

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Speaker 1: Kimmel Crowns was describing why there were blood clots at

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Speaker 1: the same not just freely flowing blood from her veins,

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Speaker 1: you have to tell the jury that you have to

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Speaker 1: point that out to them in crime scene photos. It

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Speaker 1: is the duty of the prosecutor. There's no way around it.

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Speaker 1: Even as awful as it is. Why you have to

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Speaker 1: convince the jury of the trauma because they want that

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Speaker 1: death they want is the truth, Cathline, It's the truth. Truth.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever had a case where the truth was

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Speaker 1: awful and you did not want to describe it for

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Speaker 1: a jury, but you had too. Whenever I went in

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Speaker 1: front of the jury, I was no hope for what

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Speaker 1: do you mean? I went one hundred percent to the

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Speaker 1: truth and very descriptive and very clear. That was our job.

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Speaker 1: There's no way around it. When they hear this, guys,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to FBI Criminal Pursuit. One of the

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Speaker 1: first things have become obviously apparent to me was that

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Speaker 1: there were literature marks around her neck. I could see

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Speaker 1: rope marks that were very visible pressed into her flesh

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Speaker 1: that appeared to be a small hord of some type

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Speaker 1: that hadn't been rolled. And I could see three distinct

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Speaker 1: marks that had been left in her neck. There are

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Speaker 1: several jagged cut marks instant it's lower abdomen where the

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Speaker 1: baby was removed. And there's something else. When I looked

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Speaker 1: at Bobby Joe's hands, there was hair there, which indicated

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Speaker 1: to me that Bobby Joe had probably grabbed a hold

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Speaker 1: of her attacker. Some of it looked like it was

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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe's hair. Some of it did not. It's clear

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Speaker 1: to everyone that the expectant mother fought for her child.

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Speaker 1: She not only was trying to save her own life,

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Speaker 1: she was trying to say Victoria Joe's side. She was struggling.

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Speaker 1: She has the defensive marks where her fingers were being

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Speaker 1: kept her elbows. The skin was coming off her elbows

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Speaker 1: trying to fight back. Her feet were in a pool

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Speaker 1: of blood, and she was trying to say Victoria Joe's lie. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I needed a medical examine or doctor Kennel Crowns. What

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Speaker 1: are we hearing? Explained to me and break it down place.

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Speaker 1: We're not all medical doctors. Sure, So what I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: is classic defensive type injuries. So as the individuals being stabbed,

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Speaker 1: they tried to protect themselves anyway they can. You know,

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Speaker 1: you don't have a knife yourself, so it even comes

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Speaker 1: down to trying to grab the knife to just stop

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Speaker 1: the attack. Cecd's injuries on the hand, hands and on

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Speaker 1: the back of the arms as they're trying to protect themselves,

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Speaker 1: and then the hair fibers in the hands. I mean,

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Speaker 1: at that point it's fighting back is all she has

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Speaker 1: left is grabbing the Salem's hair and then pulling the hair,

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Speaker 1: just trying to stop the attack in any way she can.

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Speaker 1: The fight of a lifetime, Bobby Joe Stinnant waging war

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Speaker 1: against her attack, or to say, not only her life,

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Speaker 1: but the life of her baby. Back to U Sierra Gillespie,

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, how pregnant was Bobby

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Speaker 1: ja Stent at age twenty three? So she was eight

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Speaker 1: month pregnant at the time of this attack. Um to

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Speaker 1: you be in Levatan. I remember the name of that.

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Speaker 1: That device, It's called a stingray A sting That's a

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Speaker 1: whole another issue. What is that? Okay? So when you

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Speaker 1: when you use your cell phone, Nancy, you are connected

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Speaker 1: up to the closest cell tower. You always connect to

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Speaker 1: the closest cell tower, and that provides your connection to

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Speaker 1: the worldwide phone network. Well, now there's a controversial, and

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Speaker 1: I have to say controversial device out there that law

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Speaker 1: enforcement uses. It's a mini cell tower. And this mini

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Speaker 1: cell tower they can drop it anywhere they want. And

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Speaker 1: when so, say they drop the cell tower in a

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Speaker 1: neighborhood where they want to listen in on somebody, they

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Speaker 1: just drop this device off on the street and your phone,

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Speaker 1: so all connect to this fake cell tower and gives

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Speaker 1: a law enforcement the ability to wiretap you without getting

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Speaker 1: a search warrant. So this is a little bit all

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Speaker 1: of the cell phone numbers that are being used in

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Speaker 1: that area. It certainly does it. You have to understand, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: that we put out cell towers based on the amount

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Speaker 1: of people we think are going to be in the area.

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Speaker 1: But suppose all of a sudden that a Lando decides

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Speaker 1: to host the Olympics, all of a sudden for a

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Speaker 1: temporary amount of time, there's going to be millions of

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Speaker 1: people in that area. We don't expect, and we can't

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Speaker 1: build new self towers. So what we do is bringing

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Speaker 1: these little temporary self tower stick span the coin. Understand,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a way that they could

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Speaker 1: get all the cell phones that were used in this

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Speaker 1: area in the time in question, particularly around the victim's house,

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Speaker 1: and it seemed like this. Would you expect Chris Buyers

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Speaker 1: for there to be DNA from the defendant? Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: When you're talking about a struggle like this, I mean

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Speaker 1: you're talking about hair fibers and stuff in her hand,

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Speaker 1: So yes, absolutely, there would be DNA, I would imagine

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Speaker 1: on a scene just like this with a blood soak scene.

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Speaker 1: The police step back and punt, using tried and true

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Speaker 1: police techniques. Take listen to FBI Criminal PROCEIP agent's process

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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe's computer to see if there are any clues

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Speaker 1: that may lead them to her killer. Then Bobby Joe's mother,

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Speaker 1: Becky Harper, reveals something important. Becky tells investigators that an

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Speaker 1: unknown visitor was at Bobby Joe's house right before she

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Speaker 1: was murdered. The person was interested in buying one of

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Speaker 1: her rat terrier puppies. We knew that Bobby Joey received

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Speaker 1: a phone call from her mother at two thirty, during

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00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: which time she says, I've got someone here looking at dogs.

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Speaker 1: Could this customer be Bobby Joe's killer. Authorities interview Bobby

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Speaker 1: Joe's neighbor who reports seeing a dirty pink or red

407
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Speaker 1: car parked in front of Bobby Joe's house. He knows

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Speaker 1: it was an important but can't recall the or model.

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Speaker 1: It was parked in front of Bobby Joe's house. Probably

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Speaker 1: the witness said it was there about twelve thirty and

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Speaker 1: did not see when it left. Okay, right there Not

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Speaker 1: only am I learning a lot someone was in the home,

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Speaker 1: but I'm getting a real time frame because now I'm

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Speaker 1: learning the victim, Bobby chose Sten And age twenty three,

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Speaker 1: eight months pregnant, is on the phone with her mother

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Speaker 1: at two thirty pm. By four twenty seven, less than

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Speaker 1: two hours later, she's pronounced dead. The mother, Becky Joe,

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Speaker 1: has come home. She finds her daughter dead. She tries

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Speaker 1: to revive her. She calls nine one one the sheriffs

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Speaker 1: to get their mts get there, and she's declared dead.

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Speaker 1: So you've got a two hour window. Now we learn

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Speaker 1: there was a visitor in the home. I mean Kathleen Murphy.

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Speaker 1: I've argued this to jury's before when the defendant said

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it. What's the likelihood that, in now

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Speaker 1: we're down to about an hour and forty minute window,

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Speaker 1: that somebody else came in, murdered her and escaped the

427
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: scene with the baby unnoticed that somebody else was there

428
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: was the likelihood of that. It's very low. You're right,

429
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: You're right, and especially would this town being as small

430
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: as it is. So we're getting the other clue we

431
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: now know. Sierra Gillespie climb online dot com investigative reporter

432
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: that Bobby Joe bred rat terriers, so was that her

433
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: business that is corrupt? So she and her husband bred

434
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: these rat terriers out of their home, and she would

435
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: advertise online, so very often she would be in these

436
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: chat rooms. I mean, you have to remember this is

437
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: two thousand and four. The chat rooms are really popular,

438
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: and that is where she would meet a lot of

439
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: people who would be interested in the rat terriers. Reach

440
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: out and say, Okay, I want to come buy a

441
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: puppy and stop by crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

442
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: chat rooms online right there. I mean, I devoted a

443
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: whole chapter of my new book, Don't be a victim

444
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: to online safety letting people you don't know come to

445
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: your home. Not blaming the victim, it's the fault of

446
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: the killer, but in doing business out of your home,

447
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: you're inviting complete unknowns into your home. Okay, guys, take

448
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: a listen to Kathleen Garrett. One of the exact web

449
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: address of the Breeders Board, which I gave him and

450
00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: I spelled out Darlene Fisher and also her email dress

451
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: which was Fisher for Kids, which I thought was rather

452
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: odd because it sounded like she was fishing for a

453
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: kid or a child. I told him that the IP

454
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: address appeared under every post and that I could give

455
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: them the IP address. IP address is key information because

456
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: there's only one computer. If we can trace that computer.

457
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: As soon as we had that, I thought, if this

458
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: baby's alive and Darlene Fisher is the one who took it,

459
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: we can find her because we'll have her computer. Owen

460
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: quickly traces the IP address to Darlene Fisher's Internet provider.

461
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: I was able to determine it was assigned to QUEST

462
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: Communications out of Virginia. I passed then information onto Special

463
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: Agent Lapanovich and he called me later and he had

464
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: Quest Communications on the phone. I explained to them that

465
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: the nature of the situation that you had a murdered woman,

466
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: that fetus had been cut from her, and they thought

467
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: that the baby would be viable and that this was

468
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 1: an emergency, and we would provide them with paperwork, search warrant.

469
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: Grand Jury's a poenot down the road, and so they're

470
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: very cooperative. So they're looking for this name is like

471
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: a needle in a haystack. To you, Ben Levetam, what

472
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: is an IP address? Okay, this is really simple. You

473
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: know that your phone has a specific phone number on

474
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: the Worldwide Telephone Network. Nancy, I can call you from

475
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world because I know your phone number.

476
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: Now the Internet and you have a light to point out,

477
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: yes you have Okay, go ahead. No, that's the phone network.

478
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: But there's also the Internet, which is a data network,

479
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: completely separate. Okay, let's just this is completely separate. And

480
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: just like the phone network, every computer, every connection where

481
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: wherever you connect to the Internet that has a phone

482
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: number two and that's called an IP address. Like for example,

483
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: if I want to go to crimes online, the crimes

484
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: online is on a computer crime crime online. If I

485
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: want to go to crime online, I type that into

486
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: my brows say I want to see crime online. What happens.

487
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: The first thing that happens is there's the Internet says, well,

488
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: what's the IP address for crime online? So it so

489
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: there's a directory out there and every website and has

490
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: an address. It looks up the address and it finds

491
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: that it finds out what that IP address is. An

492
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: IP address is simply a phone number which will point

493
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: you to a connection on the Internet. Now, when you

494
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: send us chat message to everybody in the chat room.

495
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: You send a message to the chat room, and the

496
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: chat room distributed its distributes it to everybody that in

497
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: that chair. How do they know, Well, they have a

498
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: list of the IP addresses at so it's like a

499
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 1: phone number for computers. Now, the name that is coming

500
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: up on this IP address is Darlne Fisher. But then

501
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: old fashioned police work comes into play and cops get

502
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: a tip Listen. A woman named Patsy Hughes claims that

503
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: someone she knows, Lisa Montgomery, might have Bobby Joe's baby.

504
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: Patsy Hughes knew Lisa Montgomery and had received a phone

505
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: call from her saying that baby has arrived. Lisa Montgomery's

506
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: daughter was spending the night at Hughes's house when she

507
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 1: heard that her mother had just had a baby. Okay,

508
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: all right, bye, what's so exciting? My mom just had

509
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: her baby. Montgomery never looked pregnant, and Hughes has long

510
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: been suspicious that she was faking it. She is also

511
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: well aware that Bobby Joe's baby was stolen from her body.

512
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: She was on these message boards and saw on the

513
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: message board on December seventeenth, someone posted a message about

514
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe having been murdered. Hughes also reveals something shocking.

515
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: Lisa Montgomery has something in common with Bobby Joe Stinnet.

516
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: She's now showing rat terrier dogs. She's in the dog

517
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: circuit show, and it appears and she probably knows Bobby Joe.

518
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: There you go, because when cops were looking at IPA

519
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: dresses and they find Darlene Fisher, that name didn't work.

520
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: And then out of the blue, a woman named Patsy

521
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: Hughes is piecing it together an amateur sleuth. And it

522
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: seems almost like that this woman, Lisa Montgomery is not

523
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: just taking the baby, but the life of Bobby Joe Stinnett.

524
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: Has she taken the baby and the life. She's now

525
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: showing rat terriers on the dog's circuit From what I

526
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: understand that it's a very close knit circuit. Kathleen Murvy,

527
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: just imagine it. You deal with people all day long

528
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: taking this stand. It's like a very close knit group.

529
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: These people just think about the Westminster Dog Show. They

530
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: all know each other. They see the same faces every year.

531
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: Like at the courthouse, I'd see the same parade of

532
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: defense attorneys, the same judges, the same experts, no offense,

533
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: Dodger Kendall Crowns and being in love of Town, you'd

534
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: see the same group. That's the way the dog circuit is.

535
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: And now suddenly this woman Lisa Montgomery is showing rat

536
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: terriers just like Bobby Joe Stinnett. What about it, Kathleen.

537
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: I think these amateur sleuths are amazing. It's incredible for

538
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: them to follow that story and reach out to the police.

539
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: Like last night, I just saw a Law and Order

540
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: episode for someone that's being assaulted that everybody in the

541
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: city kind of closed their curtains and walked away. But

542
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: when people stand up and say, this is what I

543
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: know and what you were watching Law and Order, Okay,

544
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: you do know that's not real, right, that's pretend. Okay,

545
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: Chief Chris Buyers. I'll quickly move on to our police chief,

546
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: former police chief from John's Creek. Chief. How often has

547
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: a amateur sleuth a civilian, just as Kathleen Murphy is saying,

548
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: correct a case for you? Oh so many times? You know,

549
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 1: all these technological advances in society have helped us with investigations,

550
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: you know, and it's increased our time and being able

551
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: to solve them quicker. But there's nothing like having a

552
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: witness like that. So many people that just get involved

553
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: in these things and piece things together that you know,

554
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: law enforcement is looking at some very specific things and

555
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: so may miss some of these connections. So yeah, it's

556
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: a that's an amazing resource to have out there, and

557
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: we see how it work in this day. Man, you're

558
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: not kenning. Take a listen to Solved. The morning after

559
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: the murder, a team of police and FBI investigators are

560
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: pursuing their best lead, an Internet address traced to a

561
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: computer that's connected to a phone line in a small

562
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: town in Kansas. Quest Communications comes back and they're able

563
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: to tell me customer's name is Kevin Montgomery and he

564
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: lives at a specific address in Melvern, Kansas. With the

565
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: information we had, we now knew we had a name,

566
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: we had a physical address in Kansas. So now we

567
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: had some good lead to actually go to to see

568
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: if we could physically find a baby. Almost simultaneously, investigators

569
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: receive another tip pointing to Melverne. It has to do

570
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: with a woman who, let's just say that suddenly has

571
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: a baby. She'd been cleaning, she was pregnant. Someone didn't

572
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: really think she was pregnant. The woman's name is Lisa Montgomery.

573
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: That very morning girl. She r at the same time,

574
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: both together, an FBI guy, says Lisa Montgomery, and my

575
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: dispatch lady says Lisa Moctgomery said. Babingo, guys. She's already

576
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: showing off the new baby girl to doctor Kendall Crown's

577
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Medical exam or joining us out of Austin.

578
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: Can you look how do you look at a baby

579
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 1: and tell it's newborn? Usually when you look into baby,

580
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: the newborns are just smaller and they I think that

581
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: is basically if they're smaller compared to a more old baby.

582
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything else to really say. Now

583
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: they still have their their umbilical cord is still attached.

584
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: Oh well, I guess if you're talking right after birth, yeah,

585
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: they would have the the stump of the bilical cord

586
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: will be there and will dry off and fall out.

587
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: But usually most people don't see that when they're looking

588
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: at him. Just here, Gollesie Crimalline dot Com investigative reporter,

589
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: the victim had hair in her hands, just at doctor

590
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's pointing out, who did it match? The hair

591
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: ended up matching Lisa Montgomery. When police get there and

592
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: they see Lisa Montgomery, they see that it is streaked blonde,

593
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: just like the hair in the victim's hands. To Sierra Gillespie,

594
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: tell me about of course, after the jury convicted Lisa Montgomery,

595
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: what is the mode of death penalty? You will receive

596
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: lethal injection. This is the first federal female execution in

597
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: seventy years. Sierra, did the baby go on to thrive

598
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: and live? Nancy? This is the most miraculous thing about

599
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: this story. Yes, she did born the same day her

600
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: mother died. Victoria Joe is her name, and she's now

601
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: sixteen years old. She would returned to her father and

602
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: she survived in the healthy and just so you know,

603
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: the baby had cut marks on it as well, but

604
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: miraculously survived. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime

605
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: story signing off Goodbye friend,