1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:07,119 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: I knew that when I had the idea for Liquid Death, 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 2: no investor was going to write me a check for 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: the concept that, Hey, I have this idea. I want 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 2: to make a water company that looks like a beer 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 2: company and call it Liquid Death and put a skull 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 2: on the can. Nobody would write me a check. It's 8 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: like investors don't like to invest in ideas, they like 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 2: to invest in businesses. 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 3: Welcome to Math and Magic Stories from the frontiers of marketing. 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 2: I'm Bob Pittman. 12 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 3: In each episode, we dive into the intersection of smart strategy, 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 3: the math, and the creative spark, the magic that drives 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 3: remarkable brands and businesses. Today's guest flips a simple product, 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 3: water on its head. He didn't invent water, but he 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 3: had invented a way to sell it in a category 17 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 3: where nearly everyone else thought there was nothing new to do. 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 3: It's Mike Cesario, founder and CEO of Liquid Death. Mike 19 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 3: grew up in Delaware, near Philadelphia. Although wildly creative, he 20 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 3: was good at math, the math and magic. Count of kid. 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 3: He played in bands and has a lifelong love of skateboarding. 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 3: He wound up at art school and onto a career 23 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 3: in advertising and then an entrepreneur with his own ideas 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 3: and dreams, and now he has a unicorn. Liquid Death 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 3: is a private company worth over a billion dollars. And 26 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 3: for all of us who love brand building, he's clearly 27 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 3: a master with some great lessons for us to explore. 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: Mike, welcome, Thanks for having me, Bob. 29 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 3: Before we jump into the really meaty stuff, I want 30 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 3: to do you in sixty seconds. You ready? 31 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? 32 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 3: Cats are dogs dogs Early riser or night out early Riser, 33 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 3: city or suburbs, suburbs Southern California, Bay Area. 34 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: Southern California. 35 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 3: Introvert or extrovert, introvert, skateboard or snowboard. 36 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: Probably snowboard, but it's close. One energy drink or iced tea, 37 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: iced tea, punk or metal metal. Listening to music or 38 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: playing music. Ooh, probably listening as much as I love playing. 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: Just love listening. 40 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 3: Comedy or drama, comedy, coffee or tea coffee. Super Bowl 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: ad or viral social media post super Bowl ad. It's 42 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 3: about to get a little harder. All time favorite musical 43 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 3: artist Slayer. 44 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: First job being a cafeteria worker at a college cafeteria, 45 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: childhood hero. Tony Hawk. Favorite Liquid Death campaign probably the 46 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: Tony Hawk blood boards that we did a long time ago. 47 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: Most important bit of advice you ever received. Nothing is 48 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: ever as bad as it seems, and nothing's ever as 49 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 2: good as it seems. Very good, let's get going. 50 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 3: Liquid death packaging marketing looks like the opposite of most 51 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 3: of the peaceful, tranquil images on other waters, and it 52 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 3: has a wicked sense of humor. 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: Give us the origin story. Let's go back. So you know, 54 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 2: I was an advertising agency creative for a long time 55 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: and ended up working for a small agency in Chattanooga, 56 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: Tennessee called Humanot. There's only about nine or ten of 57 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 2: us that work there, and we started doing some of 58 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: the first funny, irreverent marketing for the organic industry. It 59 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: was more digital YouTube, kind of viral. They weren't big, 60 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: expensive TV commercials, but we were able to generate millions 61 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: of views. A lot of people were talking about it, 62 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: and for me, that kind of was the light bulb 63 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: moment of how come more healthy, better for you? Brands 64 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: are not marketing in the same funny, memorable way as 65 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: beer companies, junk food companies, even energy drink companies is 66 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: not really funny, but they do this big, incredible marketing, 67 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: whereas healthy things were always just marketed in this very quiet, 68 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: sort of narrow way, and there was no real purpose 69 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: for why that was the case. I thought, it's what 70 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: prevented more people from making healthier choices, because all the funnest, 71 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: coolest stuff is all stuff that's bad for you. So 72 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: kind of have this idea, like, hey, water is the 73 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 2: healthiest thing you can possibly drink. Most people don't drink 74 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: enough of it. What if we created a water company that, 75 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 2: from all optical and aesthetic and marketing sort of angles, 76 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: felt like a beer company. And that was kind of 77 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: the beginning of the thought of Liquid Death. I knew 78 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: that when I had the idea for Liquid Death that 79 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: there was nobody, no investor was going to write me 80 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: a check for the concept of Hey, I have this idea. 81 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: I want to make a water company that looks like 82 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: a beer company and call it Liquid Death and put 83 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: a skull on the camp. But nobody would write me 84 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: a check. And I think it's like a bigger entrepreneurial 85 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: thing in general. I think there's a lot of people 86 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 2: who want to be entrepreneurs and I've had people come 87 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: to me and say, Hey, I have this great idea, 88 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: how do I get investment. It's like investors don't like 89 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 2: to invent and ideas, they like to invest in businesses. 90 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 2: So if you have an idea, you need to do 91 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: something to kind of prove out that there might be potential. 92 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: Like you're making something small that you can make at 93 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: your house, make it out your house, go sell it 94 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: at the local farmers market and see how it does. 95 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: But with a canned beverage company, the minimum amount of 96 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: cans you can pretty much make is like one hundred 97 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: and fifty thousand, So you're talking about one hundred and 98 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: fifty thousand, two hundred thousand dollars investment just to even 99 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: start to even make a physical product. So that wasn't 100 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: going to happen. So what I did was, I'm like, Okay, 101 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: let me pretend this is a real company. Make a 102 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: Facebook page for it. We made a funny little sort 103 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: of internet commercial for the brand that I spent maybe 104 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: fifteen hundred bucks to produce. We use photoshop to make 105 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: what felt like a realistic photo, real canned image, and 106 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: we just did a couple posts on this Facebook page 107 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 2: for liquid dep and then we put like a few 108 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 2: thousand dollars in paid media like not a time, like 109 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: I think may be five six grand something like that 110 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 2: over a six month period. And at the end of 111 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: that six months, the video had almost three million views, 112 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 2: The page had almost eighty thousand followers. We had like 113 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: hundreds of comments from people. We had distributors actually dming 114 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: the page saying, Hey, we're the biggest non out distributor 115 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: in New York. Can we talk to a salesperson? Or Hey, 116 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: I own three seven elevens in Michigan? How do I 117 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 2: get this in my stores? So then I use all 118 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: of that traction to then go actually raise the first 119 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: sort of one hundred and fifty k round of funding 120 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 2: just to actually produce the first minimum run of product. 121 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: We started selling the cases online only our website and 122 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: Amazon in late January early February twenty nineteen. 123 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 3: So let's jump in a little bit. You've got this 124 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 3: tall boy can. You're right, looks like a beer can. 125 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 3: What was the idea and the thought of that one. 126 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 2: Thing that we knew in marketing. Marketing is so much 127 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: about sort of psychology and why do people make the 128 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: decisions they do and ninety nine percent of decisions that 129 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: people make are emotional, not rational, and we knew that 130 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 2: if you actually wanted teens to think something is cool, 131 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: you actually market it to people in their twenties. So 132 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: we said, hey, energy drinks are kind of like, you know, 133 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: bright neon colors, and they feel like teen esque. Well 134 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: if we make it look like a beer, let's make 135 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: it look like something aesthetically that they're not even allowed 136 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: to legally have, and then that will potentially create just 137 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: the fun factor of hey, look what we have. It 138 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: looks like something we're not supposed to have, but it's 139 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: just completely healthy water. And that's what we really saw. 140 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: It's like because of the can design itself, everybody who 141 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: got it, they were posting on social of them drinking 142 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: it because they think it's really funny. Hey look, look, 143 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: my six year old's drinking what looks like a beer. 144 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: Isn't this funny? Or hey look, I'm shotgunning a water 145 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: and it's nine in the morning. So the can was 146 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: such a big part of the marketing in the early days, 147 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: and we kind of knew that, like, when you're a 148 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: small brand with no real marketing budget, you have to 149 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: bake all the marketing into the product and packaging itself, 150 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: because that's the only real media that you have or 151 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: can afford. At that point, where most companies or most 152 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 2: CpG brands, it's like they create the packaging and brand 153 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: name to sort of be. 154 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 4: Hey, it's okay, Like it's not incredible, it's not bad. 155 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 4: Like the packaging kind of looks like, you know, some 156 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 4: other stuff maybe in the category, looks decent. There's nothing 157 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 4: like shockingly interesting about it, just from a packaging standpoint. 158 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: Then they go hire a marketing agency to build an 159 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: advertising campaign around this product to all of a sudden 160 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: make it more interesting or make it more relevant to people. 161 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: But we started with all of the marketing firepower built 162 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 2: into every aspect of the brand, brand name, the can, 163 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: the design, the logo, all of that was kind of 164 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: created with this idea of what makes this so interesting 165 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: that if someone sees us on the shelf, they have 166 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: to stop and pick it up. And if they do 167 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: pick it up, they almost have to take out their 168 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: phone and take a picture of it and share it 169 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: for free to their hundreds of followers that. 170 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 3: They have tell everybody listening your slogan, murder your thirst. 171 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 2: So how did you come up with that? Where did 172 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: that come from? I think people think that creative ideas 173 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 2: are like these light bulb moments that happen when you're 174 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: in the shower. It's like, oh, I just thought of 175 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: this genius idea and it all came to me at once. 176 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: Where it's really like ideas and concepts are like a 177 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: stone sculpture, Like you're constantly just chipping away and chipping 178 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: away and refining to eventually get to that perfect kind 179 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 2: of final thing. Like it takes time, it takes iteration. 180 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 2: It took a while to get to liquid Death as 181 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: the name, and then once it's liquid Death is the name, 182 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: it's like, okay, what's the opposite of what most other 183 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: people would call this thing? What's the opposite? That's a 184 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: good place to start to find truly innovative ideas. So 185 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: it's like, okay, we've got this really healthy spring water 186 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: company called Liquid Death. Now it's like, okay, how do 187 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: we have this make sense in a funny way? And 188 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: it's like, oh, well, water murders your thirst. Oh that's funny. 189 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: Now it all starts coming together. It's not just liquid death. 190 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 2: Oh why is it called liquid death? Oh? Because it 191 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: murders your thirst. Oh, that's so funny. And then after 192 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: that it was well, at that time, single use plastic 193 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: bottles were making their way into the news because they 194 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 2: weren't actually being recycled. But aluminum cans are infinitely recyclable, 195 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: and they're really the only material that's consistently getting recycled 196 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: by recycling facilities because it's economically viable to melt down 197 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: metal and then resell it at a profit, where plastic 198 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: and glass you can't actually do that. So then it 199 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: was like, well, we can also do death to plastic 200 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: as sort of a secondary mission of the company of Hey, 201 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: it's this fun thing, it's better for you, and maybe 202 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: you feel a little bit better that you're not buying 203 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: a plastic bottle. 204 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 3: You started a branding company before Liquid Death, and then 205 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 3: you went the water. What did you learn from that 206 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 3: spirits foray that you took with you when you did 207 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 3: Liquid Death? 208 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 2: I learned a lot from that. I mean, I was 209 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 2: pretty young in my career at that point. I was 210 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: only a few years out of college working for an 211 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: ad agency in San Francisco that wasn't really doing very 212 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: creative work, and I was kind of creatively miserable for 213 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: the better part of two years, and that was when 214 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 2: I had my own light bulb moment of Hey, I 215 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: can't just wait around for clients to want to do 216 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: good creative work. I need to create my own product 217 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 2: that I can create the type of marketing and branding 218 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 2: and I think brands need to do in the modern day. 219 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: When we created alcohol, I mean similar to liquid, the 220 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 2: strategy was, hey, how do you find a stale category 221 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 2: that you can go in and be one of the 222 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 2: only interesting brands in Because if you can do that, 223 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 2: you can stand out like a sore thumb and you 224 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: can actually take market share without having to spend a 225 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: ton of money on media and advertising. Brandy was one 226 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 2: of the few categories of booze that there was no 227 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 2: cool brands. Most people didn't even really know what it was. 228 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: So once I tasted it and realized, like, hey, this 229 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 2: is actually really similar to Bourbon, which at that time 230 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: was like the number one fastest growing spirit in America. 231 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 2: So it's like, clearly, this isn't a taste problem, this 232 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: is a brand problem that Brandy has. So came up 233 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: with this idea for the brand, and I think from 234 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: the creative side, a similar type approach of trying to 235 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: think through, hey, what's the marketing, how does this fit in? 236 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: Where's the white space? But then I had no experience 237 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: with beverage or specifically alcohol at that time. Yes, I 238 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 2: had this really cool brand idea, but then, actually, how 239 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: do you turn this into reality? That was a much 240 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 2: bigger leap that I had to figure out how to make. 241 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: So what I did was I literally went on LinkedIn 242 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 2: and I started searching for basically people that worked for 243 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: this one creative agency in Philadelphia called Quaker City Mercantile 244 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: that was behind two of the most famous Spirits brand 245 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 2: launches in history, which was Hendrix Jin and Sailor Jerry Rum. 246 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: I found two of those people on LinkedIn and literally 247 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 2: cold messaged them and we talked. They liked the idea, 248 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, they were down to start 249 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: this company with me. But as a young sort of 250 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: not much confidence, like I'm a little bit out of 251 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: my zone here, you know, I don't know how to 252 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: produce alcohol or do any of that. So I decided, well, hey, 253 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: let's just all own equal shares in the company, which 254 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 2: then meant these two people that worked together forever could 255 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: just outvote me on literally everything. So you know, it 256 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: was like learning like how you start a business and 257 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: how to structure it and knowing the realities of like 258 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 2: how decisions are made, and you know, it was basically, 259 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 2: you know, after probably two years of us working together, 260 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: we got the brand stood up. We had a warehouse 261 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 2: full of product in Philadelphia. They were selling it into 262 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 2: bars and that kind of stuff. But on the marketing concepts, 263 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 2: on strategy all of that, like me and my two 264 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: sort of partners in it, we were just were constantly 265 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: butting heads, like what I wanted to do was completely 266 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: different than what they wanted to do, and we just 267 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: could never agree. So eventually I'm just like, you know what, 268 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: you guys, just take this from here. I think I 269 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 2: learned a lot about one depending on the category you're in, 270 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 2: the realities of how hard it is to bring something 271 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: to market. Alcohol was insane, Like the amount of legal 272 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: fees because of the red tape with alcohol laws by 273 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: state and all of that was insane. And the marketing 274 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: laws about what you can't even market this on social 275 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: and how you do it, how you launch in a 276 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: particular state is different. The way distribution worked because of 277 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: the alcohol laws, like, it was just the most red 278 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: tape I could ever imagine. So when I kind of 279 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: got out of that and sort of thinking about what's 280 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: my next thing, definitely my head was in the space of, okay, 281 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: what has a lot less red tape than alcohol? And 282 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: water was probably high on that list. But then the 283 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 2: more I did the research on the category I was 284 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: going into, like you know, I didn't do tons of 285 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: category research when I was launching brandy or booze. I 286 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: did with water, and we really learned about well, wow, 287 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: at that time, in twenty sixteen or whatever, bottled water 288 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: had surpassed carbonated soft drinks for biggest beverage category by volume. 289 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: So it's like, oh wow, huge category, and it was like, hey, 290 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: all the brands look almost exactly the same, and they're 291 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 2: all in plastic bottles. Now, there's a lot of things 292 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: with water that were way more difficult to produce than 293 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: I ever thought. For instance, at that time, there was 294 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: not a single bottler or copacker in North America who 295 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 2: could put non carbonated spring water in cans. Did not exist, 296 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: which blew my mind at the time. I literally had 297 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 2: to start googling European companies and I happened to find 298 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: a bottler in Austria who had canning capabilities and they 299 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: had a natural spring source at their facility that they 300 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: could put into the cans. 301 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 3: Or a creative guy, you have the remarkable math skills, 302 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 3: analytical skills. How do you use data and what do 303 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 3: you think about data and how does that fit in 304 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 3: the creative process of building a product. 305 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think data is interesting because it can be 306 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: a double edged sword. It's like anyone can find some 307 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: kind of data to support whatever they wanted to support. 308 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: So I think it's one what kind of data are 309 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: you pulling? How are you looking at it? But for us, 310 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: data is really just helping us figure out where's the 311 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: best place to point the bazukah of marketing. You know, 312 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: it's like, hey, we need to be very strategic about 313 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: like what are we trying to target, Like where are 314 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 2: we focused? Like you can't just say, hey, we're just 315 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: gonna target literally everybody and be all things to all people. 316 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 2: Like that's not a strategy. I think one of the 317 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 2: best pieces of marketing advice that I got was that 318 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: any razor sharp strategy has to come with sacrifice. There's 319 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: no such thing as a smart strategy that just tries 320 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: to please everybody. You've got to pick where should we 321 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: be focused, where's the white space, where's the value? And 322 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 2: to get to that, that's where you need to look 323 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: at data and get to what are real insights, what's 324 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: something that we can act on, Especially as a startup 325 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: where you've got very limited cash and capital. It's the 326 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 2: most precious resource that a startup has, and if you're 327 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 2: not being hyper efficient with it, you will run out 328 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 2: of cash before you ever get to the finish line. 329 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 2: And that's mostly the reason that the majority of startups fail. 330 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 2: It's not necessarily because the product was a complete failure. 331 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 2: It's because they run out of cash before they ever 332 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 2: get to the scale that they need to kind of 333 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: keep going. 334 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 3: I think your advice about and your observation about running 335 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 3: out of money is an interesting one. We don't hear 336 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 3: it a lot here. You know, you're exactly right. It 337 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 3: is such a problem with not only startups but existing businesses. 338 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: You said you sold your first water direct to the consumer. 339 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 3: What did you learn what surprised you when you finally 340 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 3: sold it? 341 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I think the biggest thing that we didn't 342 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 2: think about so much was how expensive it was really 343 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 2: going to be the ship of thirteen pound product somebody 344 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 2: you can kind of estimate some of that stuff. But 345 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: you know, one of our early investors, really great guy, 346 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 2: Mike Lazaro. He's always said that whatever you think something's 347 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 2: going to cost as a startup, double it. However much 348 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 2: time you think it's going to take you double it. 349 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: Proved to be true in most scenarios, and it's not 350 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 2: something you think about. You can think like you crunched 351 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 2: all the numbers as well as you can, but somehow 352 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 2: it ends up being way more than you thought it was. 353 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: And there's just so many unforeseen things that you can't 354 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 2: think about. So yeah, as much as you know, we 355 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 2: had to start direct to consumer because at that time, 356 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: there wasn't a single retailer who would even consider putting 357 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: something called liquid death on the shelf because retailers are 358 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 2: highly conservative. We knew that the only way we could 359 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: eventually get into retail is we had to sell it 360 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: through our site in Amazon. First proved that there was 361 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 2: a lot of people who wanted this product and prove 362 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 2: that nobody was thinking, you know, this is actually going 363 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 2: to kill them, like they no more than they think 364 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: death by chocolate ice cream is going to kill them. 365 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: So yeah, that first year, you know, I think at 366 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 2: that time we were paying like thirteen dollars in shipping 367 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 2: for every case that went out, and we were selling 368 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 2: the case for twenty dollars at that time, and it 369 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 2: was costing us, you know, five bucks to make you 370 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: start looking at it like you're making nothing if maybe 371 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 2: your break even. So we had to do that though, 372 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: to prove out the demand and build the brand. And 373 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: then at the end of our first year it's publicly reported, 374 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 2: but like, we did about almost three million in revenue 375 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 2: our first year. That's pretty substantial for the first year 376 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,479 Speaker 2: of a beverage company, and especially only online. So then 377 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: at that point our first retailer, Whole Foods, said hey, 378 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 2: we want to put you nationwide in all of our 379 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 2: stores and our load in date was March fifteenth, twenty twenty. 380 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 2: So that was a fun first retail experience. 381 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 3: How much do you think your experience with ad agencies 382 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 3: and probably trying to sell clients on campaigns that they 383 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 3: didn't want to do, we're afraid to do, didn't understand 384 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 3: how much of that helped you sort of motivate you 385 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 3: to say, look now, that I'm in full control, I'm 386 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 3: doing X. 387 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: I think it motivated me a ton, and I think 388 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 2: I learned a lot being in the ad industry world 389 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: for basically about ten years before liquid death. Most brands, like, 390 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: they don't come to ad agencies when they're doing amazingly well, 391 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 2: Like a lot of times, like brands come to agencies 392 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 2: when they've got problems and they're hoping that marketing can 393 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: help fix their problems or turn their business around. So 394 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 2: that was the cool thing about being an agency. You're 395 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: learning about so many different brands and products in different industries, 396 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: and you're learning about their problems and what's not working 397 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 2: and what is working. I think I was able to 398 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: kind of use all of that as I thought about 399 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 2: how to build my own business and maybe avoid the 400 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: pitfalls that other companies have done in the past, and 401 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 2: really just figure out what's the strongest way to do 402 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 2: it and then yes, like as a creative person, I 403 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 2: was very passionate about making advertising not pure toxic waste 404 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 2: that people are literally willing to spend ten dollars a 405 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,959 Speaker 2: month just to not be exposed to. What we're doing 406 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 2: is we are making people laugh and basically making it 407 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: clear that we hate most marketing as much as you do, 408 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,719 Speaker 2: because that's the one connective tissue. Doesn't matter whether you 409 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: like metal or whether you like the Grateful Dead or 410 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 2: whatever it is that you're into. People are so tired 411 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: of this soulless sales, pitchy marketing that anything that just 412 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 2: feels like oh that actually made me laugh and I 413 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 2: feel like maybe there's a real person behind this company 414 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 2: that I maybe want to go have a beer with. 415 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: That is so valuable to people, And it really stands. 416 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 3: Top you're a healthy beverage company, not a water company. 417 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 3: What kind of products and marketing permission does that give you? 418 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 3: What are the products are you now doing? And what 419 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 3: do you have on the drawing board that you can 420 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 3: tell us about. 421 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we started with Mountain Spring Water in a can, 422 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: and then in twenty twenty two we launched flavored Sparkling 423 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: Water in a can, which is really more like healthy 424 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: soda because we actually use a little bit of sugar 425 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: and some sort of plant based sweetener like stevia to 426 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: kind of give it a more full soda like flavor. 427 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 2: So that again what we were seeing is like people 428 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 2: were trying to cut down on soda, but when they 429 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 2: were drinking Lacroix, which has almost no flavor, they were saying, 430 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: it's not really a soda replacement, Like, yes, it's a can, 431 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 2: it's carbonated, it's kind of like a soda, but it's 432 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: not really replacing my soda. So we thought there was 433 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 2: an interesting place, like let's give a more full flavor 434 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 2: where you could truly say I can replace this with 435 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 2: soda with this healthier option. That did really well for us. 436 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: Then in twenty twenty three, we launched sort of low 437 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 2: sugar iced tea. And the ica category was a pretty 438 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 2: big category, and there was really no interesting brands happening 439 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: for a long time. It's like most of the brands 440 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 2: people thought of there they were like thirty year old 441 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: brands like Arizona and Nestle and these kind of brands. 442 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: So and they're all like more sugar than soda, a 443 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 2: lot of them, like sixty grams of sugar in some 444 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 2: of these. So we launched better for You iced tea. 445 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 2: It also has a little bit of natural caffeine in it, 446 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: so we had a product that could actually be a 447 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,479 Speaker 2: little bit of an energy product that had some function 448 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: to it. Whereas like water is just water, that did 449 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 2: even more for us year one than what we did 450 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 2: in flavored sparkling water. And I think that was the 451 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 2: moment when Tea was successful that people finally said, oh, 452 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 2: these guys truly are like a multi category beverage company. 453 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: We've been growing both of those brands substantially over the 454 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 2: last couple of years, and then now we announced our 455 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 2: first Better for You energy drink with a what we 456 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: call unextreme and sane level of caffeine because we think 457 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: the energy category has gone pretty bananas with like two 458 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: hundred and three hundred milligrams of caffeine in some of 459 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 2: these brands. So like plain still water is less than 460 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 2: twenty percent of our sales. Now we're definitely moving into 461 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: a flavor company, and so much of our growth is 462 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 2: coming from flavored things and taking the exciting liquid def 463 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 2: brand that we've always had. But you're kind of limited 464 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 2: in how much you can take that brand creativity into 465 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 2: the product itself, because water is just water. Now that 466 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 2: we can apply that brand creativity and excitement to actually flavors, 467 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: like we launched hot Fudge Sunday flavored sparkling water, and 468 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 2: bringing that fun to actual flavor, it has been a 469 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: whole new sort of frontier for us. 470 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 3: You have a very funny campaign about Arizona. Will you 471 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 3: just tell us that for a second, that you're using 472 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 3: with your tea When. 473 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: It comes to the tea category, Arizona is basically it's 474 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 2: the eight hundred pound gorilla. And you know, they've had 475 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: a very smart strategy, which was Arizona launched in I 476 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 2: think it was like nineteen ninety four at ninety nine 477 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 2: cents Acan. At that time gas was ninety nine cents. 478 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 2: But as they grew and scaled and got cost efficiencies, 479 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: they were able to not raise their price with inflation, 480 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 2: which enable them to not have to spend that much 481 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 2: money on marketing because they could just undercut everybody in 482 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: the category on price. Now to this day, it's still 483 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 2: around ninety nine cents, and it is impossible for anybody 484 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 2: to launch a new iced tea company now and even 485 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 2: come close to competing with them on price. They will 486 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 2: always be the lowest price thing. So you're not going 487 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: to compete with them on price. The only thing you 488 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 2: can do is compete on brand, Like is there more 489 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 2: function in the product? Is it just something that people 490 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: would rather walk around with and support as a more 491 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: premium offering than Arizona. So we kind of said, all right, well, 492 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 2: most people don't even know that Liquid Death makes ice tea, 493 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 2: so we said, okay, let's grow our brand awareness because 494 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 2: everyone knows Arizona. And what we said was, well, what 495 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 2: if we could be the official iced tea of Arizona, 496 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: and not Arizona the brand, but Arizona the small township 497 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 2: in Nebraska about two hours outside of Omaha. It's like 498 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 2: population of like two hundred people. We actually went there. 499 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: We talked to some people that were involved on the township, 500 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 2: said hey, we want to pay you to be the 501 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: official iced tea of your town. They said, yeah, this 502 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 2: is great, and then we threw a party in the town. 503 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 2: We gave everybody iced tea. We went and interviewed all 504 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 2: these awesome local people and yeah, we made this really 505 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 2: fun video that claims like Liquid Death is the official 506 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: iced tea of Arizona, Nebraska. It's been great, gross, it 507 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: is brilliant. 508 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 3: By the way, more of Math and Magic right after 509 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 3: this quick break. Welcome back to Math and Magic. Let's 510 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 3: hear more from my conversation in the Mike Cesaria. I 511 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 3: want to jump a little bit. I want to go 512 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 3: back in time put you in context. You grew up 513 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 3: in Delaware, outside of Philly. Can you paint the picture 514 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 3: of that time and place. 515 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 2: I was born in eighty two in Wilming, Delaware. My 516 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 2: earliest memory maybe three years old. I was sitting on 517 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 2: my cousin's skateboard in his room, and I just knew 518 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 2: that I wanted one of these things. So then at seven, 519 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 2: I got my first real skateboard and it became like 520 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 2: my prize possession. I had actual Thrasher magazines back then 521 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: because I would see the skate bags in like the 522 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: store when my mom would go in like the bookstore whatever, 523 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 2: and I'd say, let me have that, and I would 524 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: put some of the stuff on my wall. And I 525 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 2: was obsessed with skateboarding. And I was also really into drawing. 526 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: I was always a kid that was good at drawing, 527 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: So then I was drawing like the skate graphics and 528 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 2: skate artwork and all of that. And then my father 529 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 2: is a really funny guy, like he's not that serious 530 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: about too many things. And you know, for us, like 531 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: some people, for Christmas, they watched like a Christmas carol, 532 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 2: Like every Christmas, we would watch my cousin Bennie, So 533 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 2: there's always a lot of joking and humor in our house. 534 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: So that probably sums up a lot of what my 535 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: upbringing was like. It was about art, creativity, skateboarding, and 536 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: then humor and comedians and Rodney Dangerfield and Bill Murray 537 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: and all that kind of stuff. So that really shaped 538 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 2: my approach to creativity because even when I was drawing, 539 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 2: I was drawing funny cartoons that felt like Mad Magazine, 540 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: which was also another big inspiration for me that I 541 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: just thought was the greatest thing ever, like gross, funny, 542 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: like awesome artwork. And then yeah, that eventually kind of 543 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 2: guided me into playing in bands in that Philly, Delaware area. 544 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 2: When I was about seventh or eighth grade, you know, 545 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: got a guitar, started playing guitar. That was right when 546 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 2: Green Day Dookie was released, which kind of put punk 547 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 2: rock in every house in America pretty much, and then 548 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 2: that kind of started me down the rabbit hole of 549 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 2: like bad Religion and No Effects and all of those 550 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: punk bands and then playing in one myself throughout high 551 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 2: school and where I went to high school, it was 552 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 2: like rural Pennsylvania, so there wasn't a ton to do. 553 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 2: Except for, you know, go to our buddy's house after 554 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: school in his basement and just made music and play music. 555 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 2: That was kind of what it was like for me 556 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 2: growing up. Do you ever imagine back when you were 557 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 2: a kid that you'ld be a CEO one day? I 558 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: don't think so. I think I did know, you know, 559 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 2: when I was fifteen playing in bands, so like late nineties, 560 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 2: you know, pund hardcore DIY was like a whole part 561 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 2: of that community, and it was a term. It's like 562 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: do it yourself. They were these little businesses, like you 563 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: were creating your own T shirts, Like you were going 564 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 2: to figure out how to quote unquote raise money, whether 565 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 2: it's from other guys in the band who were working, 566 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 2: or maybe like your parents are willing to loan you 567 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 2: like fifty bucks. You pull all your money together just 568 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: so you can go into the recording studio that's in 569 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 2: our hometown. It charges thirty bucks an hour to go 570 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 2: record our album. And then we're going to go burn 571 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: CDs of our album. I'm going to go to Kinko's 572 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: and print little booklets and put them all together, and 573 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 2: then we're going to go have to go pitch ourselves 574 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: to play a show and then thankfully, we'll let us 575 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: play a show. Then we have a table and we're 576 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 2: selling the stuff there. And it was really like kind 577 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 2: of creating your own business at a really young age, 578 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 2: and I think I really love that. Before I knew 579 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: that graphic design was a real job that you could 580 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 2: get paid to do. When my parents were asking, well, 581 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: you know, what do you think you want to do, 582 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: like or go to college for, my generic answer was 583 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 2: always I don't know, like maybe something with business. I 584 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: think I just want to have my own business, whatever 585 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: that is. Now I could have thought my own business 586 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: is like a silkscreening company or a CV making company 587 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 2: or something. I think I always knew that I was 588 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: independent and probably stubborn enough that I just wanted to 589 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: like run my own thing, whatever that might have been. 590 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 3: You had an interesting career in advertising, by the way. 591 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 3: You eventually went to college basically an art school, and 592 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: then you went into advertising. What took you into advertising? 593 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I originally went to school for graphic design, 594 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: and then about a year or so into my graphic 595 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 2: design education, I saw that there was another department advertising 596 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 2: and they were doing these really smart and funny ads 597 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: which resonated way more with me, because I was always 598 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 2: about being funny, whereas once you're like deep in graphic 599 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: design at a really good graphic design school, that's you know, 600 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 2: the graphic design department was run by a German guy 601 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 2: and it was the Bauhause sort of style design. It 602 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 2: got really molecular and like rigid, and that just wasn't 603 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 2: really me. Like, I just wanted to make silly stuff 604 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: that made people laugh. So what the advertising department was 605 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 2: doing felt way more like my speed. So then I 606 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: basically went and talked to the head of the advertising department. 607 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,719 Speaker 2: Then I just went full send into sort of learning 608 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 2: that craft, which was very different than design design was 609 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 2: just about making stuff pretty. Advertising had to solve problems 610 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 2: and be really smart and sort of conceptual. And it 611 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 2: took a bit to kind of hone that muscle, but 612 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: ended up getting it pretty quickly and doing well pretty quickly. 613 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 3: Hey, it worked out well for you. Let's talk a 614 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 3: minute about managing a business. What role does company culture 615 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 3: play and how do you build it and manage it, 616 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 3: and what are the core values set liquid death. 617 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 2: It's tough to have the culture of a company be 618 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 2: dramatically different than whoever the top decision maker is like 619 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 2: the CEO is kind of always going to set the 620 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 2: tone for what the culture of the company is. So 621 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 2: for us, as a entertainment first, marketing led company, there's 622 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 2: almost like a hacker mentality regardless of what the department is. 623 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: Back when we had to get Liquid Death into stores 624 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: that would not ever carry the product, you can't just 625 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: go about it the normal way. Hey, let's get a meeting. Hey, 626 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 2: here's our brand. Do you like it? Yes? Or no? 627 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 3: No? 628 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: Okay. We had to get like really creative with like, hey, 629 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: let's go find who the CMO of this big retail 630 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 2: chain is. Let's get the product in front of them, 631 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 2: because they'll get the marketing part of it. And then 632 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 2: if they get it and the CMO says to the buyer, hey, 633 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 2: this is a cool brand. I saw, You're way higher 634 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 2: in their consideration list when their boss of bosses is 635 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 2: telling them that this brand might be something interesting. Whereas 636 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: if you just go right to the buyer and they 637 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 2: don't get it, like that's it, You're done. I think 638 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 2: we've always built this creative, innovatives thinking culture. I think 639 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 2: it's important that that kind of culture lives everywhere. If 640 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 2: you want to constantly be churning out that kind of 641 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 2: work product. 642 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 3: Talk about your philosophy on teams and collaboration, both from 643 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 3: your perspective as a founder, CEO and as a former 644 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 3: creative in the ad agency business. 645 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 2: Collaboration is really important, but I think you've got to 646 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 2: find the right way to do it, and every company 647 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 2: is different. But I think for us, our culture and 648 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 2: the way we've hired people is a lot of our 649 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 2: people they love autonomy. Some people they're happier just being 650 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 2: a cog in a giant machine, and it's just they're 651 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 2: told exactly what to do, like you're just going to execute. 652 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 2: You don't have to overthink anything. And that can work 653 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 2: in a giant company, but in a high growth startup 654 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 2: where you know, as they say, a startup is jumping 655 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,240 Speaker 2: off a cliff and building a plane on the way down, 656 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 2: everyone can't have their handheld, like you got to have 657 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 2: some of that instinct to go and figure out a 658 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 2: problem on your own. And those types of people do 659 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 2: not like to be micro managed, you know. I think 660 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 2: that was like me that they've also said, like every 661 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 2: great entrepreneur is almost unemployable. I liked autonomy. I liked 662 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 2: doing stuff I did not like being told do exactly this, 663 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: do exactly this. So I think the way we've built 664 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 2: a lot of our teams, especially the folks in a 665 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 2: suite that report to me, I know where my value 666 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 2: is and where my value isn't and so much of 667 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 2: my value is on the brand and the marketing and 668 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 2: the vision and the product development where I spend most 669 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 2: of my time. We had to hire really really strong 670 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 2: CFO and really really strong cheap supply chain officer and 671 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 2: really really strong chief sales officer so that I can 672 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 2: sort of trust those people to run their businesses and 673 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 2: I don't have to be in the minutia in weeds 674 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 2: micromanaging them because it just wouldn't work. We really try 675 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 2: to empower people to act like owners. You know, hey, 676 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 2: everybody in our company, regardless of level, own shares in 677 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 2: Liquid Death, and if you can go out there and 678 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 2: help Liquid Death generate more revenue, you are directly increasing 679 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 2: the value of your own shares. 680 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 3: Let's talk about personal level. How do you think about 681 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,760 Speaker 3: either work life balance or work life integration. 682 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 2: I think work life balance is really important. There's certain 683 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,240 Speaker 2: companies and companies I've worked for, especially on the marketing 684 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 2: side where people almost think that like overwork is like 685 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 2: this badge to celebrate, like, oh, I was at the 686 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: office until four am last night. It's like, why are 687 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 2: you proud about that? Something's probably wrong if you're actually 688 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 2: having to work until four am every night, either you're 689 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 2: not working the right way, or there's some problem in 690 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 2: the company structure that you know, there's either not enough people, 691 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 2: something's happening that's requiring you to do that. So I 692 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 2: think as much as we can, even as a high growth, 693 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,919 Speaker 2: kind of crazy startup company, I think we've been able 694 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 2: to have pretty good life work balance where it is 695 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 2: not commonplace that you know, at Liquid Deaf people are 696 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 2: working until wee hours in the morning. It's like a 697 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 2: lot of the time, you know, people are off slack 698 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 2: and off their stuff by six or seven o'clock. You know, 699 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 2: we're still able to achieve all these great things, and 700 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 2: we've always been, you know, a big proponent of you know, 701 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 2: work smarter, not harder. If you can finish all the 702 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: work that you need to do in two hours and 703 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,879 Speaker 2: take the rest of the day off, I don't care. 704 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 2: You know, it's like we need to get done what 705 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 2: we need to get done, and let's figure out like 706 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 2: the most efficient way to do it, but no one's 707 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 2: getting points for working late nights or that kind of stuff. 708 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 2: You know, Let's do some advice. 709 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 3: If you could go back in time, what advice would 710 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 3: you give your twenty one year old self. 711 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 2: As cliche as it is, to be patient and stay humble, 712 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 2: there's always this want, Hey, you've got to figure this 713 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 2: out right now, and you know it's not working in 714 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 2: the first months, then you know, just give up on 715 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 2: it and go to something else. It was so, you know, 716 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: I really patience was not my thing at all. In fact, 717 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 2: when I was working in that San Francisco agency, I 718 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 2: ended up getting a tattoo, pretty big one on my 719 00:38:54,000 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 2: arm of a muskie fish which my grandfather, he lived 720 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 2: in northwest Pennsylvania. He caught this muskie it's like forty 721 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 2: eight inches long in the late seventies. He had it 722 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 2: on his wall in his house and he would tell 723 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 2: me the stories about this thing that they call it 724 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 2: the fish of ten thousand casts where people fish their 725 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 2: whole lives and they don't catch a muskie, and he 726 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 2: caught one his whole life, and for me, I got 727 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 2: the tattoo one, you know, as a tribute to my grandfather, 728 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 2: but also for me it was a huge reminder to 729 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 2: be patient because patience was never one of my virtues, 730 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 2: and I think it's something that has absolutely manifested itself. 731 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 2: Is you know, a powerful ideal to have when building 732 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 2: a business. You have to have some patience because if 733 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 2: you're too reactionary, too quickly, like you can make some 734 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 2: pretty bad MoES. 735 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 3: So we end each episode with some shout outs. Did 736 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 3: podcast is called Math and Magic, so true to that, 737 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 3: we give one shout out to the math person, the 738 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 3: person who saw that analytical genius in business, and we 739 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 3: give one to the creative, the magic person, the magician. 740 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 3: Who would you give your two shout outs to? 741 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: Can I do it on my own team? Of course 742 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 2: you can. The math person. I would give it to 743 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 2: Ben law Vitterry, our chief media officer, the way he 744 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 2: really thinks about media, the math equations and analytical thinking 745 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 2: that kind of go into how complex the new media 746 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 2: landscape is across digital and TV and connected TV. And 747 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 2: then I think for the magic got to give that 748 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 2: to our VP of Creative Andy Pearson. He's been the 749 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 2: backbone of all of our creative campaigns and not just 750 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: the ideas behind them, but actually executing productions and shoots 751 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 2: on budget for very cheap to kind of produce all 752 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 2: this stuff that we've done. And also just the pure 753 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 2: magician in him physically. He's the guy that runs two 754 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty mile races on his feet at one time. 755 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 2: I don't know how that's even physically possible, So that's 756 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 2: kind of magic to me too. Yeah, that alone makes 757 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 2: a magician. 758 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 3: Mike. This has been a lot of fun. You've got 759 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 3: an amazing story of going against the grain and building 760 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 3: both an amazing and totally unique brand, and building a 761 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 3: unicorn doesn't happen very often. It's a challenger unicorn at 762 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,839 Speaker 3: that even harder. So congrats and thanks for sharing those 763 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 3: stories today. 764 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 2: Thanks Bob. 765 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 3: There are a few things I picked up from my 766 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 3: conversation with Mike. One, own your brand. Mike knows his 767 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 3: brand and his power inside and out. He baked the 768 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 3: branding into every aspect of his product, from the name 769 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 3: to the can, the design, and the logo before they 770 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 3: had a real marketing budget. 771 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 2: Liquid Death's strong brand. 772 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 3: Identity did the work for them. It made the product 773 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 3: so compelling that you had to pick it up. Take 774 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 3: a picture and share it. Two. A winning strategy comes 775 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 3: with sacrifice at liquid death. That is a tool to 776 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 3: figure out where the white space is and where it's 777 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 3: truly worth spending money on mark. As much as an 778 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 3: entrepreneur might want to sell their product, everyone is just 779 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 3: not efficient. Instead, figure out where to focus and then 780 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 3: work a move in the needle. 781 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 2: Three. 782 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 3: A creative culture is limited to creative roles. Creativity and 783 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 3: innovation are in liquid desks DNA. It's part of the 784 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 3: concept and you can see it in all their content, 785 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 3: but it's also crucial to their sales and supply chain teams. 786 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 3: The company didn't stop being creative when it came to 787 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 3: pitching their product to stores. They disrupted the status quo 788 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 3: every step of the way. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. 789 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:40,800 Speaker 2: That's it for today's episode. 790 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a 791 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Podcasts. The show is created and hosted 792 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: by Bob Pittman. The Math and Magic team is Ali Perry, 793 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 1: Jessica Crincicch and Dylan Hoyer. Special thanks to Sydney Rosenbloom 794 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no 795 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,479 Speaker 1: small feat until next time.