WEBVTT - Tarof 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.040 Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. This 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:08.800 episode contains descriptions of sexual assault listener discretion as advised. 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.239 One of the things trauma took from me was the 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.479 sweetness of the earth, and I longed for the world 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.040 around me to come alive again. I ache to smell 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.560 the bread baking in the oven, the soft, sticky wetness 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.800 under my hands as I needed the dough the moment 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.080 before it went into the loaf pan. To have noticed 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.280 the fly buzzing around my head, fearing it would wind 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.559 up in the bread and be mistaken for a reason. 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:42.640 But if someone asked what I did over the weekend, 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:49.440 I would most likely say I made bread. That's Michelle Bowdler, 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:54.520 social justice activist, public health professional, and author of the 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:59.080 recent book is Rape A Crime, A Memoir, an investigation, 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.080 and a Manifesto, which was long listed for the National 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:07.360 Book Award. Michelle's is a story of trauma and the 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:11.760 long shadow of its aftermath, and the extraordinary healing power 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:29.280 of giving voice and taking action. I'm Danny Shapiro, and 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.600 this is Family Secrets. The secrets that are kept from us, 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.560 the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:43.039 keep from ourselves. I was born in a northern suburb 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:48.160 of Chicago and grew up with a mother and a 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:53.440 father in a townhouse village in that area. And when 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.680 I was just barely seven years old, my father died 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:03.000 of a fast moving cancer, and there was a lot 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.760 that changed then. My mother was thirty three years old 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:12.080 with two kids, two young children, and we were pretty 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.919 lost without him. And about five years later she remarried 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:21.040 and we moved to a small, very rural town in 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:26.160 northeastern Ohio. It was an odd fit for me. Um 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.400 We left behind our family and our friends and came 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:33.280 to a place where many people actually had never even 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:38.680 left the state of Ohio, and I felt really out 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.480 of place. And I was very much looking forward to 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.600 college and moved on to leave as soon as I could, 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:51.040 and wound up in Massachusetts and haven't less since. Describe 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.919 to me what you were like as a young woman 0:02:55.720 --> 0:03:01.320 heading into college. College was really transformed for me when 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.280 I got to Brandeis University. People had read books I 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.919 had never heard of. They had tasted foods I didn't 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.000 even know that you know the names of, and I 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.560 didn't really even know what I wanted to study. And 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:20.000 within a semester, I had made friends for the first 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:24.120 time in my life. I decided to be an English major, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.679 and I think probably by second semester I had come out, 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.600 which was a big surprise for me at the time. 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:38.320 And then as the four years of college went forward, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:43.440 I felt like I found a real footing in not 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:48.240 only the love of reading and writing that I discovered, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.920 but also um in terms of feminist politics. And I 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:58.520 was very active on the Brandeis campus and had just 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.880 the most wonderful time just feeling like a head of 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:08.320 voice that there wasn't anything I felt like I couldn't do. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.000 I couldn't wait to see what life had to offer 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:18.080 after I graduated. So when you graduate from Brandeis and 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.240 you've really that beautiful thing that can happen where you 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:27.279 come into your own you move into an apartment not 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.400 that far away I did. I moved into an apartment 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:37.240 in Austin, which is right near Boston University and near 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:43.159 ish to downtown, and lived with three of my dear friends. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.359 And it took me about a year to find a 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.839 job that I felt I was interested and I worked 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.240 at a circuit factory as a bookkeeper. I did all 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:57.400 kinds of things until I found a job in editing. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.919 I was editing for a small man magazine, and that 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.880 was when I really started to feel like, this is 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:08.159 really great, paying my own rent, I'm learning how to cook. 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.320 I I'm responsible for what happens to me, and it 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:18.680 was just a wonderful, magical time for me. Walk me 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:26.200 through what happened on the first night of summer in. So, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:31.320 the first night of summer in I had dinner and 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.560 went to a concert with a friend of mine, and 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:40.800 during I think intermission, a friend from Brandis came up 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.640 to us and she had a big pile of flyers 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.880 in her hands, and she said, you know you live 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.280 in Austin, don't you Have you heard about the fact 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.960 that there's been a series of rapes that's been on 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.560 the news. And we put these flyers together because we 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.960 don't think enough people know about it. Could you perhaps 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.400 take some and put them up? Would you be willing 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.120 to do that? And I was all too happy to 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.200 do that. I felt like I had lost a little 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:14.120 bit of my political will over the last two years 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.120 because I was just busy trying to find a job. 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.440 And I was so happy to feel like I could 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.800 do something meaningful. So I took a big bunch of 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.960 flyers and I put them on my table out in 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:30.479 our hallway, and I remember thinking to myself, Gee, I'll 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.080 have to see if my roommates can help me put 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.839 these up tomorrow. And then I went to bed, and 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.640 for some reason, none of them were home, which was unusual, 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.640 but I was the only one home, and I I 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:44.880 looked at those flyers, and when I thought about it later, 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:50.520 I never, even for a second I thought about the 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.080 fact that this was happening and that it could happen 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.040 to me. It was more about how I could help 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.720 other people. And I never thought for a minute that 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:02.960 I was in any danger. And I went to bed, 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:10.560 and a few hours later I felt my door open, 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.400 and I thought, maybe it's one of my roommates coming 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.080 home and they want to say good night. I hadn't 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.000 really no idea what time it was, and it was 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.920 two strangers, and so I sort of felt the light 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.520 come in and was waiting to hear my friend's voice 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.280 and realized in that moment that there were two people 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:38.120 in my apartment. And they rushed over and it was 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:44.800 clear that this was a home invasion, and that was 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.760 the beginning of the night that really you have changed 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.880 my life. Did you connect in your mind the home 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:57.920 invasion with those fires? No, you're so frozen in a 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.720 moment like that, and I I just felt like I 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:07.080 went into a different mode of let me see what 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.480 I can figure out is happening here so that I 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:15.760 can keep myself safe. And so I worked really hard 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.000 to let them know that I wasn't a threat. When 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.600 I was spoken to, I tried to speak in very 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:27.520 measured tones to be reassuring. One of them said, We're 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.560 not going to hurt you. We're just here to rob 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.120 the house. You know, it's the economy. We need money 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:37.880 or something something like that, and so I decided, maybe 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.960 for some self preservation, to just believe what they said. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:47.360 And it wasn't until the night progressed where I realized, oh, no, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.040 these are the men on the fire that they're talking about, 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.960 and I am going to be raped. And then I 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.800 also sort of went into a frozen mode where I 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:00.199 had to again figure out what do I need to 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:05.120 to survive this. How many hours in all were these 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.640 strangers in your apartment? It felt like it was about 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:15.080 two hours, and I'm not sure that that's the truth, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.880 because it might have been less. But the night seemed 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.720 to just go on and on, and one of them 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:28.439 stayed with me, and while the other one ransacked a 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.480 post college apartment where there was nothing of value. It 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:38.160 felt like that process just went on, and then there 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.120 was a lot of back and forth about what else 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.880 should we do? Should we leave? Do you have money? 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:48.439 Do you have a car? That just seemed endless, It 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:54.800 was prolonged. One of the split second decisions Michelle makes 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.840 is to not tell these two men that she's a lesbian. 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.160 This is a knee jerk in stinct contrary to her values. 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.840 All she's thinking about is getting to the next minute. 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.960 The men bind Michelle's hands and feet, then blindfold her. 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.840 They place a gag around her face, and she's terrified 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.360 that they're going to strangle her, but instead the gag 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:24.160 goes over her mouth and they tell her to keep calm. Finally, 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:31.760 they leave. I waited until they left and made sure 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.160 that they were gone, because they didn't want to have 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.080 any reason for them to harm me more. I just 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:47.160 worked to loosen my self and was able to untied 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:53.679 myself eventually, and then I couldn't find my glasses and 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.079 I am very, very site impaired without my glasses, and 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:04.400 I couldn't find and was very disoriented. But there was 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.320 no question that I would have to go to the hospital. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:15.160 I was physically hurt, and I I didn't know how badly. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:21.440 I thought that I should have a medical exam, and 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:26.480 I never thought maybe I should wait. I just felt 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:31.440 like I needed help right away. I walked across this 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.840 little apartment hallway to neighbors that I had never met. 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.120 It was probably about three or four in the morning, 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:42.000 and I knocked on their door and I just I said, 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:45.480 I need to use your phone. And at the time, 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.680 in the early nineteen eighties, the Boston Mary Rape Crisis 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.560 Center was in place, but it had started just a 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.840 few years before. It's one of the oldest rape crisis 0:11:55.840 --> 0:12:00.760 centers in the country. And then Beth Israel Hospital had 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.359 a victim services program which still exists to this day. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.840 They call it a violence prevention recovery now, but at 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.839 the time they were known for being able to help 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.200 people who have been raped get the care that they needed. 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.400 So there was no questions that that was where I 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.560 would go. You knew where to go. I did. I 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.800 don't know how I did. Maybe because of the political 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.520 work that I did in college. I really I'm not sure. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.880 You know, it never ceases to amaze me the way 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:36.600 that in the midst of severe trauma, the mind of 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.600 the brain, you know, just the survival instinct can become 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.319 so incredibly sharp. I mean, of all the hospitals in Boston, 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:49.200 Boston is a city of hospitals that you shuffled through, 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:54.440 you know, in some way your mental rolodex, and knew 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.160 where to take yourself. I just find that fascinating and 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.080 such resilient see of the human spirit, even in a 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:06.560 moment like that. I think the thing that stands out 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.520 for me the most about being at the hospital and 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:16.839 awaiting an exam was how clear it was to me 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.520 in some part of my brain that I was suddenly 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.800 a different person. I had now had this experience, and 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:31.440 I felt like I was utterly changed. I think during 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:37.160 the attack, I became quite dissociated, and in order to survive, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.120 I sort of wasn't there. I was there, but I 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.960 wasn't there, and I still had that feeling when I 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.640 was at the hospital, I even in moments, felt like 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.240 maybe I died because it just seemed so unreal and 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.640 so impossible. And so I was in the emergency room. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.080 I had a friend with me, and somebody came out 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.200 and asked me. They said, we usually have women who 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.800 can do the exam, but we don't right now. We 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:05.800 only have men in the e R. Do you want 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.560 to wait and we can get somebody? And I said 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:14.920 I would wait and rape exams, rape evidence collection exams. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.320 At a time, it was it was at least a 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.960 four hour exam. Now I think that's the maximum that 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:23.880 it would be, but back then it could be four 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:30.760 to six hours. It really is unlike any other exam. 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.160 And what I've heard people say, and what I've said myself, 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.000 is that in essence, your body is a crime scene, 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:43.920 and that the forensic evidence that lives on your body 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:49.320 is the thing that they have to extract in order 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:56.520 to even have the possibility of moving forward to identify 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.440 the perpetrators. They come you in every possible place they 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.640 can comb you, and they they have a silhouet of 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.360 of a human that's on a piece of paper and 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.840 I think this is still true. And they mark we're bruised, 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:19.320 They mark anything that is relevant to the assault. I mean, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.800 it's even as I'm saying, and I just think it 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:28.840 is really so intrusive after you've just had a violation 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:34.440 and intrusion that defies description. But some people do go 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.880 through a rape kit, and I felt like I I 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.400 felt obligated to because if this was clearly a case 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.840 of serial perpetration, and I I didn't want anybody else 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:51.160 to have to go through this. If we could find 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:57.840 the men who had done it, we'll be right back. 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.720 Following her medical ordeal at the hospital, Michelle is back 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.560 at her apartment when two detectives arrived, presumably to ask 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.640 her questions about the assault and to collect more evidence 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:25.840 for her case. A few hours after being at the hospital, 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.200 or maybe it was even several hours later, um, there 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.760 were detectives who wanted to interview me to see if 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.520 I could help them in what I thought was going 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:45.440 to be an investigation. And we sat down and started 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:53.240 talking and they kept asking me, did you see them? 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.200 What can you tell us about them? What did they 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.640 look like? And I must have said several times I 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.600 did see them. I was I was blindfolded, and I 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.320 could feel them getting frustrated they would be able to 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:13.720 get some DNA evidence and also fingerprint evidence, but it 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.320 would be important to them that they had a description, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.840 and I felt like I was letting them down. And 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.919 at one point one of the detectives reached into his 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.639 satchel and pulled out a gallant sized baggy and there 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.920 was a knife in it, and he held it up 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.720 and said to me, does this look familiar? And even 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.560 as I say it now, it creates like a lump, 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.439 a lump of fear in my throat. And this is, 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.560 you know, over thirty five years later, And I said, 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.879 did you find that in my bedroom? And then it 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.199 started to come back to me that they had a knife, 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.320 and that I saw it for that split second before 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:59.080 they put the blindfold on me. They did have a knife. 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.480 I didn't make the up in my head. I did 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:06.000 see it, and I was terrified, and I just said, well, 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:09.720 I assume that was from my kitchen. And then there 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.240 were a lot of questions about my kitchen knives, Well 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.280 could you identify this to are you sure? And I 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.600 didn't know, and I didn't understand why that mattered. There 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.600 were a lot of questions that of a lot of 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:25.520 detail that didn't really matter to me. And I will 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.080 say that in the work that I do now, trying 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.720 to be more of an advocate. I think a lot 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.000 about what didn't happen, and what didn't happen was they 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.359 didn't say, is this too early for us to talk 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.399 to or have you had a chance to get some sleep, 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.040 or I know this is hard, but time is of 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:48.280 the essence. I felt like I was just a bad witness. 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.879 They did say, you know, I guess that's about it, 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.760 and we'll be on our way. We'll get back to 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:57.960 you if we have any more questions, and it was 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:03.359 very strongly stated. So I thought we were done and 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:06.480 that I would wind appearing from them in about three 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.439 or four weeks. I guess I was naive about how 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:14.480 quickly things take. The detectives asked Michelle to come down 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.879 to the Boston Police station to give her fingerprints so 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.800 they'd be able to distinguish her fingerprints from the rapists 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:26.560 when dusting the apartment. I went to the police station 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.800 and got my fingerprints taken, which was also a very 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.640 strange experience where I felt like I was a criminal, 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.880 that I was somehow being booked. You know, they turn 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.879 your hands over and the ink and get your fingerprints, 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.320 and there's not a lot of words that are exchanged 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:48.000 while it's happening. And then the ink stayed on my hand. 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.760 And this was I think, less than twenty four hours 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.440 after I had been attacked, and it was a lot 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.720 of police contact and in an environment I had never 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:02.040 been in. And at the very end of our exchange 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.800 and having the fingerprints done, there was a a dog 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.760 barking somewhere. I don't know if it was a police 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.320 dog was right outside and the windows were open, but 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.440 the dog was barking and barking and barking, and policewood 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.159 people were like, oh, not again, and oh this dog. 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:26.359 And finally the officer looked at me and said that dog, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.879 just like a woman, can't keep her mouth shut. I 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:33.560 couldn't believe it. And it was also the moment where 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.679 I thought, Oh, this last twelve hours or whatever it's been, 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.360 has all been a waste of time. That somebody who 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:46.000 could say something like that made me feel like, Oh, 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:50.360 if he is at all reflective of this group of officers, 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.639 then why did I even bother? I bet they won't 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:58.840 even look. It was devastating, And it was also devastating 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:03.719 was that I didn't have my old self that I 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:09.760 could conjure in any way to basically say, listen to you, 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.560 and what I would have said, you know, two days before, 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.159 like I can't believe you just said that that is 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:21.000 so not okay, you know, and really talked to him 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:25.000 about misogyny and walked out with all this swagger that 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:30.399 I didn't have anymore. How quickly our sense of self 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:34.440 can be taken from us. The nature of trauma, I think, 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:38.200 is that it robs us of our voice, Its silences us. 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:41.600 In this way, It's like a secret that we keep 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:45.080 from ourselves because the self that would have been confronting 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.919 that police officer has gone a wall. That self is 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:54.439 not available in the inner swirl of shame, self blame, inadequacy, 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.840 Michelle worries about being a bad witness, and she does 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.400 not yet have access to the range of her oceans. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:08.040 I began to feel angry when I was moving. I 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.320 was staying with a friend of mine, and I was 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.200 moving about six weeks later, and I still hadn't heard anything, 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.639 and I didn't have a cell phone that I could 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.880 give the detective, and so I thought, Oh, I better 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:24.600 let him know I'm moving. I tried saying that, like, oh, 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.200 I'm moving and I thought I should let you know 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:29.120 so that you would know how to get in touch 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.760 with me. And then that was when he got dismissed 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.440 of like where the police we know how to find 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.159 people and did, And I said I would let you 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:40.040 know if I had any news, because at some point 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:41.639 I said, well, I thought, maybe you know, do you 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.199 have an update? Another one on the phone. No, I 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.120 said I'd call you if I had any news, and 0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:56.080 it was clear that me calling was annoying. You're right, 0:22:57.400 --> 0:22:59.439 I can never again be a person who does not 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:03.480 have this story chasing me. And so there's this period 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:07.480 of time in the immediate aftermath, meaning you know, the 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:12.640 initial weeks and months and then extending into years, where 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:17.080 the whole question of talking about it, not talking about it, 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:23.000 telling not telling is very prevalent. And the first place 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:28.159 that that arises is when you think about telling your 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:31.360 mother and you think, I can't tell my mother. I'm 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:34.919 not going to tell my mother, and your mother is told. 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:37.600 I imagine there are people who don't and who never 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:41.879 tell their parents. But then your mother doesn't come to 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:46.760 visit right away, and you tell her not to and 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:51.200 she doesn't. When your mother finally does come to visit. 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:55.480 You're furious at her because she didn't come and you 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:58.199 needed her, and she didn't come that she should have 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:02.040 known that you needed her and come. There's a term 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:08.119 called to ross that I read about, and it's something 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:12.120 that's particular to the Iranian culture. The example that I've 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:16.840 heard of is you're taking a taxi ride and you're done, 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:19.240 and you get your destination, and you say how much 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:21.080 do I owe you? And the taxi driver says, oh, 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:24.080 my goodness, you don't pay me. The pleasure of your 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:26.720 company was enough. I couldn't possibly take your money. And 0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:29.760 then you, of course argue, and then they insist no, 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:35.440 and then but ultimately both parties in this the cultural exchange, 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:38.560 know that at the end the driver is to be paid, 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:42.119 but the back and forth is considered a politeness of 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:47.359 courtesy and somehow a recognition of I don't want to 0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:49.919 bother you, but of course you must. And but you 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.000 know it goes on like that, and that is known 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:55.440 as tarros. And of course if the you didn't pay 0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.560 the taxi driver, he'd be very upset and he would 0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:03.320 want to be paid. The dance of taraff has prevented 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:07.440 Michelle and her mother from having an honest conversation. Michelle 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:09.720 had told her mother not to come, and her mother 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:13.800 had taken her at her word. Over years, this misunderstanding 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:17.879 calcified into resentment that Michelle carried with her like a 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:23.159 stone in her pocket. Years later, years later, when my 0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:26.520 mother was dying and my sister and I were talking 0:25:26.640 --> 0:25:29.840 about it, I brought that up somehow because my sister 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.000 had asked me a question and I said, yeah, that 0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:36.399 was really hard that she didn't come. And I know 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:38.520 I told her not to, but it was still hard 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:45.959 for me. And she explained that when I said don't come, 0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:49.200 they had actually called a rape crisis center in one 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:52.959 of their towns, and the person at the other end 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:56.760 of the line said, if she tells you not to 0:25:56.840 --> 0:26:01.840 do what you must listen because a rape victim loses 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:05.320 all sense of control, and even if what she's asking 0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:10.560 you seem so outlandish, you have to respect it. And 0:26:10.640 --> 0:26:15.920 yet we never had that conversation. We lost the opportunity 0:26:15.960 --> 0:26:19.199 to have that conversation. And the secret that I was 0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:22.959 holding was that I had a resentment even though I 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:26.960 was so distraught that I couldn't ask for anything different. 0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:31.320 And she never said to me. Years later, here's why 0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:34.840 I listened, and to this day I regret it. There's 0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:39.120 a lot that we lose by being afraid to say 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:43.399 the thing that we think will hurt somebody's feelings because 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:46.760 we love them, because we don't want them to feel 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:50.560 shame or guilt. But what happened instead of what happened 0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:53.720 to me, was that there was a real lost opportunity 0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:56.399 to have closure that I think we all, all the 0:26:56.440 --> 0:27:02.040 whole family could have benefited from. That's so poignant and 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:07.080 and so universal I think in families. And then it's 0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:10.640 gone right. You've lost it, and you have to live 0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:15.480 with the choice that you made not to say, not 0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:20.639 to confront, for whatever the reasons were, there's a choice 0:27:20.960 --> 0:27:25.000 I made and and I regret it. I wish that 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:31.360 I could talk to her about it. We'll be back 0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:53.160 in a moment with more family secrets. In the aftermath, 0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:57.600 I quit my job, which is actually really common. I 0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:01.479 didn't know it's time, but to calm a phenomenon, I 0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:05.240