1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. This 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: episode contains descriptions of sexual assault listener discretion as advised. 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: One of the things trauma took from me was the 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: sweetness of the earth, and I longed for the world 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: around me to come alive again. I ache to smell 6 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: the bread baking in the oven, the soft, sticky wetness 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: under my hands as I needed the dough the moment 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: before it went into the loaf pan. To have noticed 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: the fly buzzing around my head, fearing it would wind 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: up in the bread and be mistaken for a reason. 11 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: But if someone asked what I did over the weekend, 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: I would most likely say I made bread. That's Michelle Bowdler, 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: social justice activist, public health professional, and author of the 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: recent book is Rape A Crime, A Memoir, an investigation, 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: and a Manifesto, which was long listed for the National 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: Book Award. Michelle's is a story of trauma and the 17 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: long shadow of its aftermath, and the extraordinary healing power 18 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: of giving voice and taking action. I'm Danny Shapiro, and 19 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: this is Family Secrets. The secrets that are kept from us, 20 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 21 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: keep from ourselves. I was born in a northern suburb 22 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: of Chicago and grew up with a mother and a 23 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: father in a townhouse village in that area. And when 24 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: I was just barely seven years old, my father died 25 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: of a fast moving cancer, and there was a lot 26 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: that changed then. My mother was thirty three years old 27 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: with two kids, two young children, and we were pretty 28 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: lost without him. And about five years later she remarried 29 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: and we moved to a small, very rural town in 30 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: northeastern Ohio. It was an odd fit for me. Um 31 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: We left behind our family and our friends and came 32 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: to a place where many people actually had never even 33 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: left the state of Ohio, and I felt really out 34 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: of place. And I was very much looking forward to 35 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: college and moved on to leave as soon as I could, 36 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: and wound up in Massachusetts and haven't less since. Describe 37 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: to me what you were like as a young woman 38 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: heading into college. College was really transformed for me when 39 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: I got to Brandeis University. People had read books I 40 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: had never heard of. They had tasted foods I didn't 41 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: even know that you know the names of, and I 42 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: didn't really even know what I wanted to study. And 43 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: within a semester, I had made friends for the first 44 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: time in my life. I decided to be an English major, 45 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 1: and I think probably by second semester I had come out, 46 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: which was a big surprise for me at the time. 47 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: And then as the four years of college went forward, 48 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: I felt like I found a real footing in not 49 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: only the love of reading and writing that I discovered, 50 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: but also um in terms of feminist politics. And I 51 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: was very active on the Brandeis campus and had just 52 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: the most wonderful time just feeling like a head of 53 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: voice that there wasn't anything I felt like I couldn't do. 54 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't wait to see what life had to offer 55 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: after I graduated. So when you graduate from Brandeis and 56 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: you've really that beautiful thing that can happen where you 57 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: come into your own you move into an apartment not 58 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: that far away I did. I moved into an apartment 59 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: in Austin, which is right near Boston University and near 60 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: ish to downtown, and lived with three of my dear friends. 61 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: And it took me about a year to find a 62 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: job that I felt I was interested and I worked 63 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: at a circuit factory as a bookkeeper. I did all 64 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: kinds of things until I found a job in editing. 65 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: I was editing for a small man magazine, and that 66 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: was when I really started to feel like, this is 67 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: really great, paying my own rent, I'm learning how to cook. 68 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: I I'm responsible for what happens to me, and it 69 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: was just a wonderful, magical time for me. Walk me 70 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: through what happened on the first night of summer in. So, 71 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: the first night of summer in I had dinner and 72 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: went to a concert with a friend of mine, and 73 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: during I think intermission, a friend from Brandis came up 74 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: to us and she had a big pile of flyers 75 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: in her hands, and she said, you know you live 76 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: in Austin, don't you Have you heard about the fact 77 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: that there's been a series of rapes that's been on 78 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: the news. And we put these flyers together because we 79 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: don't think enough people know about it. Could you perhaps 80 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: take some and put them up? Would you be willing 81 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: to do that? And I was all too happy to 82 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: do that. I felt like I had lost a little 83 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: bit of my political will over the last two years 84 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: because I was just busy trying to find a job. 85 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: And I was so happy to feel like I could 86 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: do something meaningful. So I took a big bunch of 87 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: flyers and I put them on my table out in 88 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: our hallway, and I remember thinking to myself, Gee, I'll 89 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: have to see if my roommates can help me put 90 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: these up tomorrow. And then I went to bed, and 91 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: for some reason, none of them were home, which was unusual, 92 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: but I was the only one home, and I I 93 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: looked at those flyers, and when I thought about it later, 94 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: I never, even for a second I thought about the 95 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: fact that this was happening and that it could happen 96 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: to me. It was more about how I could help 97 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: other people. And I never thought for a minute that 98 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: I was in any danger. And I went to bed, 99 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: and a few hours later I felt my door open, 100 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: and I thought, maybe it's one of my roommates coming 101 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: home and they want to say good night. I hadn't 102 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: really no idea what time it was, and it was 103 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: two strangers, and so I sort of felt the light 104 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: come in and was waiting to hear my friend's voice 105 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: and realized in that moment that there were two people 106 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: in my apartment. And they rushed over and it was 107 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: clear that this was a home invasion, and that was 108 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: the beginning of the night that really you have changed 109 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: my life. Did you connect in your mind the home 110 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: invasion with those fires? No, you're so frozen in a 111 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: moment like that, and I I just felt like I 112 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: went into a different mode of let me see what 113 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: I can figure out is happening here so that I 114 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: can keep myself safe. And so I worked really hard 115 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: to let them know that I wasn't a threat. When 116 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: I was spoken to, I tried to speak in very 117 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: measured tones to be reassuring. One of them said, We're 118 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: not going to hurt you. We're just here to rob 119 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: the house. You know, it's the economy. We need money 120 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: or something something like that, and so I decided, maybe 121 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: for some self preservation, to just believe what they said. 122 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until the night progressed where I realized, oh, no, 123 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: these are the men on the fire that they're talking about, 124 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: and I am going to be raped. And then I 125 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: also sort of went into a frozen mode where I 126 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: had to again figure out what do I need to 127 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: to survive this. How many hours in all were these 128 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: strangers in your apartment? It felt like it was about 129 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: two hours, and I'm not sure that that's the truth, 130 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: because it might have been less. But the night seemed 131 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: to just go on and on, and one of them 132 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: stayed with me, and while the other one ransacked a 133 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: post college apartment where there was nothing of value. It 134 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: felt like that process just went on, and then there 135 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: was a lot of back and forth about what else 136 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: should we do? Should we leave? Do you have money? 137 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 1: Do you have a car? That just seemed endless, It 138 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: was prolonged. One of the split second decisions Michelle makes 139 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: is to not tell these two men that she's a lesbian. 140 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: This is a knee jerk in stinct contrary to her values. 141 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: All she's thinking about is getting to the next minute. 142 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: The men bind Michelle's hands and feet, then blindfold her. 143 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: They place a gag around her face, and she's terrified 144 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: that they're going to strangle her, but instead the gag 145 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: goes over her mouth and they tell her to keep calm. Finally, 146 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: they leave. I waited until they left and made sure 147 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: that they were gone, because they didn't want to have 148 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: any reason for them to harm me more. I just 149 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: worked to loosen my self and was able to untied 150 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: myself eventually, and then I couldn't find my glasses and 151 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: I am very, very site impaired without my glasses, and 152 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: I couldn't find and was very disoriented. But there was 153 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: no question that I would have to go to the hospital. 154 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: I was physically hurt, and I I didn't know how badly. 155 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: I thought that I should have a medical exam, and 156 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: I never thought maybe I should wait. I just felt 157 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: like I needed help right away. I walked across this 158 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: little apartment hallway to neighbors that I had never met. 159 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: It was probably about three or four in the morning, 160 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: and I knocked on their door and I just I said, 161 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: I need to use your phone. And at the time, 162 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen eighties, the Boston Mary Rape Crisis 163 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: Center was in place, but it had started just a 164 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: few years before. It's one of the oldest rape crisis 165 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: centers in the country. And then Beth Israel Hospital had 166 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,359 Speaker 1: a victim services program which still exists to this day. 167 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: They call it a violence prevention recovery now, but at 168 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,839 Speaker 1: the time they were known for being able to help 169 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: people who have been raped get the care that they needed. 170 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: So there was no questions that that was where I 171 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: would go. You knew where to go. I did. I 172 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: don't know how I did. Maybe because of the political 173 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: work that I did in college. I really I'm not sure. 174 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: You know, it never ceases to amaze me the way 175 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: that in the midst of severe trauma, the mind of 176 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: the brain, you know, just the survival instinct can become 177 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: so incredibly sharp. I mean, of all the hospitals in Boston, 178 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: Boston is a city of hospitals that you shuffled through, 179 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: you know, in some way your mental rolodex, and knew 180 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: where to take yourself. I just find that fascinating and 181 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: such resilient see of the human spirit, even in a 182 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: moment like that. I think the thing that stands out 183 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: for me the most about being at the hospital and 184 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: awaiting an exam was how clear it was to me 185 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: in some part of my brain that I was suddenly 186 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: a different person. I had now had this experience, and 187 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: I felt like I was utterly changed. I think during 188 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: the attack, I became quite dissociated, and in order to survive, 189 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: I sort of wasn't there. I was there, but I 190 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: wasn't there, and I still had that feeling when I 191 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: was at the hospital, I even in moments, felt like 192 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: maybe I died because it just seemed so unreal and 193 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: so impossible. And so I was in the emergency room. 194 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: I had a friend with me, and somebody came out 195 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: and asked me. They said, we usually have women who 196 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: can do the exam, but we don't right now. We 197 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: only have men in the e R. Do you want 198 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: to wait and we can get somebody? And I said 199 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: I would wait and rape exams, rape evidence collection exams. 200 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: At a time, it was it was at least a 201 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: four hour exam. Now I think that's the maximum that 202 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: it would be, but back then it could be four 203 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: to six hours. It really is unlike any other exam. 204 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: And what I've heard people say, and what I've said myself, 205 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: is that in essence, your body is a crime scene, 206 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: and that the forensic evidence that lives on your body 207 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: is the thing that they have to extract in order 208 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: to even have the possibility of moving forward to identify 209 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: the perpetrators. They come you in every possible place they 210 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: can comb you, and they they have a silhouet of 211 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: of a human that's on a piece of paper and 212 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: I think this is still true. And they mark we're bruised, 213 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: They mark anything that is relevant to the assault. I mean, 214 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: it's even as I'm saying, and I just think it 215 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: is really so intrusive after you've just had a violation 216 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: and intrusion that defies description. But some people do go 217 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: through a rape kit, and I felt like I I 218 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: felt obligated to because if this was clearly a case 219 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: of serial perpetration, and I I didn't want anybody else 220 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: to have to go through this. If we could find 221 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: the men who had done it, we'll be right back. 222 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: Following her medical ordeal at the hospital, Michelle is back 223 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: at her apartment when two detectives arrived, presumably to ask 224 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: her questions about the assault and to collect more evidence 225 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: for her case. A few hours after being at the hospital, 226 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: or maybe it was even several hours later, um, there 227 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: were detectives who wanted to interview me to see if 228 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: I could help them in what I thought was going 229 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: to be an investigation. And we sat down and started 230 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: talking and they kept asking me, did you see them? 231 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: What can you tell us about them? What did they 232 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: look like? And I must have said several times I 233 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: did see them. I was I was blindfolded, and I 234 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: could feel them getting frustrated they would be able to 235 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: get some DNA evidence and also fingerprint evidence, but it 236 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: would be important to them that they had a description, 237 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: and I felt like I was letting them down. And 238 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: at one point one of the detectives reached into his 239 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: satchel and pulled out a gallant sized baggy and there 240 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: was a knife in it, and he held it up 241 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: and said to me, does this look familiar? And even 242 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: as I say it now, it creates like a lump, 243 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 1: a lump of fear in my throat. And this is, 244 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: you know, over thirty five years later, And I said, 245 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: did you find that in my bedroom? And then it 246 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: started to come back to me that they had a knife, 247 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: and that I saw it for that split second before 248 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: they put the blindfold on me. They did have a knife. 249 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: I didn't make the up in my head. I did 250 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: see it, and I was terrified, and I just said, well, 251 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: I assume that was from my kitchen. And then there 252 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: were a lot of questions about my kitchen knives, Well 253 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: could you identify this to are you sure? And I 254 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: didn't know, and I didn't understand why that mattered. There 255 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: were a lot of questions that of a lot of 256 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: detail that didn't really matter to me. And I will 257 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: say that in the work that I do now, trying 258 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: to be more of an advocate. I think a lot 259 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: about what didn't happen, and what didn't happen was they 260 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: didn't say, is this too early for us to talk 261 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: to or have you had a chance to get some sleep, 262 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: or I know this is hard, but time is of 263 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: the essence. I felt like I was just a bad witness. 264 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: They did say, you know, I guess that's about it, 265 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: and we'll be on our way. We'll get back to 266 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: you if we have any more questions, and it was 267 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: very strongly stated. So I thought we were done and 268 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: that I would wind appearing from them in about three 269 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: or four weeks. I guess I was naive about how 270 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: quickly things take. The detectives asked Michelle to come down 271 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: to the Boston Police station to give her fingerprints so 272 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: they'd be able to distinguish her fingerprints from the rapists 273 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: when dusting the apartment. I went to the police station 274 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: and got my fingerprints taken, which was also a very 275 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: strange experience where I felt like I was a criminal, 276 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 1: that I was somehow being booked. You know, they turn 277 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: your hands over and the ink and get your fingerprints, 278 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: and there's not a lot of words that are exchanged 279 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: while it's happening. And then the ink stayed on my hand. 280 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: And this was I think, less than twenty four hours 281 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: after I had been attacked, and it was a lot 282 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: of police contact and in an environment I had never 283 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: been in. And at the very end of our exchange 284 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: and having the fingerprints done, there was a a dog 285 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: barking somewhere. I don't know if it was a police 286 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: dog was right outside and the windows were open, but 287 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: the dog was barking and barking and barking, and policewood 288 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: people were like, oh, not again, and oh this dog. 289 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: And finally the officer looked at me and said that dog, 290 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: just like a woman, can't keep her mouth shut. I 291 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. And it was also the moment where 292 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: I thought, Oh, this last twelve hours or whatever it's been, 293 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: has all been a waste of time. That somebody who 294 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: could say something like that made me feel like, Oh, 295 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 1: if he is at all reflective of this group of officers, 296 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: then why did I even bother? I bet they won't 297 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: even look. It was devastating, And it was also devastating 298 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,719 Speaker 1: was that I didn't have my old self that I 299 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: could conjure in any way to basically say, listen to you, 300 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: and what I would have said, you know, two days before, 301 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: like I can't believe you just said that that is 302 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: so not okay, you know, and really talked to him 303 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: about misogyny and walked out with all this swagger that 304 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: I didn't have anymore. How quickly our sense of self 305 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: can be taken from us. The nature of trauma, I think, 306 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: is that it robs us of our voice, Its silences us. 307 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: In this way, It's like a secret that we keep 308 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: from ourselves because the self that would have been confronting 309 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: that police officer has gone a wall. That self is 310 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: not available in the inner swirl of shame, self blame, inadequacy, 311 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: Michelle worries about being a bad witness, and she does 312 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: not yet have access to the range of her oceans. 313 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: I began to feel angry when I was moving. I 314 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: was staying with a friend of mine, and I was 315 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: moving about six weeks later, and I still hadn't heard anything, 316 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: and I didn't have a cell phone that I could 317 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: give the detective, and so I thought, Oh, I better 318 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: let him know I'm moving. I tried saying that, like, oh, 319 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: I'm moving and I thought I should let you know 320 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: so that you would know how to get in touch 321 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: with me. And then that was when he got dismissed 322 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: of like where the police we know how to find 323 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: people and did, And I said I would let you 324 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: know if I had any news, because at some point 325 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: I said, well, I thought, maybe you know, do you 326 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: have an update? Another one on the phone. No, I 327 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: said I'd call you if I had any news, and 328 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: it was clear that me calling was annoying. You're right, 329 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: I can never again be a person who does not 330 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: have this story chasing me. And so there's this period 331 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: of time in the immediate aftermath, meaning you know, the 332 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: initial weeks and months and then extending into years, where 333 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: the whole question of talking about it, not talking about it, 334 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: telling not telling is very prevalent. And the first place 335 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: that that arises is when you think about telling your 336 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: mother and you think, I can't tell my mother. I'm 337 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: not going to tell my mother, and your mother is told. 338 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: I imagine there are people who don't and who never 339 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: tell their parents. But then your mother doesn't come to 340 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: visit right away, and you tell her not to and 341 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: she doesn't. When your mother finally does come to visit. 342 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: You're furious at her because she didn't come and you 343 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: needed her, and she didn't come that she should have 344 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: known that you needed her and come. There's a term 345 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: called to ross that I read about, and it's something 346 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 1: that's particular to the Iranian culture. The example that I've 347 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: heard of is you're taking a taxi ride and you're done, 348 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: and you get your destination, and you say how much 349 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: do I owe you? And the taxi driver says, oh, 350 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: my goodness, you don't pay me. The pleasure of your 351 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: company was enough. I couldn't possibly take your money. And 352 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: then you, of course argue, and then they insist no, 353 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: and then but ultimately both parties in this the cultural exchange, 354 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: know that at the end the driver is to be paid, 355 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: but the back and forth is considered a politeness of 356 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: courtesy and somehow a recognition of I don't want to 357 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: bother you, but of course you must. And but you 358 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: know it goes on like that, and that is known 359 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: as tarros. And of course if the you didn't pay 360 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: the taxi driver, he'd be very upset and he would 361 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: want to be paid. The dance of taraff has prevented 362 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: Michelle and her mother from having an honest conversation. Michelle 363 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: had told her mother not to come, and her mother 364 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: had taken her at her word. Over years, this misunderstanding 365 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: calcified into resentment that Michelle carried with her like a 366 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: stone in her pocket. Years later, years later, when my 367 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: mother was dying and my sister and I were talking 368 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: about it, I brought that up somehow because my sister 369 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: had asked me a question and I said, yeah, that 370 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: was really hard that she didn't come. And I know 371 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: I told her not to, but it was still hard 372 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: for me. And she explained that when I said don't come, 373 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: they had actually called a rape crisis center in one 374 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 1: of their towns, and the person at the other end 375 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: of the line said, if she tells you not to 376 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: do what you must listen because a rape victim loses 377 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: all sense of control, and even if what she's asking 378 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: you seem so outlandish, you have to respect it. And 379 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: yet we never had that conversation. We lost the opportunity 380 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: to have that conversation. And the secret that I was 381 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 1: holding was that I had a resentment even though I 382 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: was so distraught that I couldn't ask for anything different. 383 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: And she never said to me. Years later, here's why 384 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: I listened, and to this day I regret it. There's 385 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: a lot that we lose by being afraid to say 386 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: the thing that we think will hurt somebody's feelings because 387 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: we love them, because we don't want them to feel 388 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: shame or guilt. But what happened instead of what happened 389 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: to me, was that there was a real lost opportunity 390 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: to have closure that I think we all, all the 391 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: whole family could have benefited from. That's so poignant and 392 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: and so universal I think in families. And then it's 393 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: gone right. You've lost it, and you have to live 394 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: with the choice that you made not to say, not 395 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: to confront, for whatever the reasons were, there's a choice 396 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: I made and and I regret it. I wish that 397 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: I could talk to her about it. We'll be back 398 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: in a moment with more family secrets. In the aftermath, 399 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: I quit my job, which is actually really common. I 400 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,479 Speaker 1: didn't know it's time, but to calm a phenomenon, I 401 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: left my job and I wound up working temp for 402 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 1: three or four years because I didn't feel like I 403 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,479 Speaker 1: had the wherewithal to commit to a job. I was 404 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: afraid of being fired, so I did temp work, and 405 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: at some point I was, you know, at a placement 406 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: at a doctor's lab for about a year, and the 407 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: person I was working was she knew something was going 408 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 1: on with me. She helped me move on after I 409 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: told her what happened. So I told her and she said, 410 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: let's let's help you leave. It was a gift, really. 411 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: Then I worked at a methodon clinic. That's where I 412 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: met my wife, who was a nurse there. I started 413 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: liking work again. I started feeling like I was using 414 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: my brain and I liked my job a lote. By 415 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: that point, I was in my late twenties. Michelle returns 416 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: to school and get some master's in public health at Harvard. 417 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: This is the time when she begins to feel she's 418 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: coming back to herself. She loves studying and learning. She's 419 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: in love with the woman who will become her wife. 420 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: She gets a job doing meaningful work in healthcare and 421 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: mental health at Tufts University, a job she still holds 422 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: to this day. She also makes the decision to stay 423 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: quiet about her history. She doesn't share the full story 424 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: with Mary, her partner. At one point, Mary says, to you, 425 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: it's so apparent, how keeping silent doesn't serve you. She 426 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: knew that something had happened, and she knew that I 427 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: had been assaulted. She knew the broad brush of it all, 428 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: but I didn't want to talk about the details. I 429 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: kind of wanted a new start, and I felt like 430 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: it had been enough years that I didn't have to 431 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: go back. It's almost ten years, well seven to ten 432 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: years later, and I wanted to feel like I was 433 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: past it, and so I was keeping a secret from myself, 434 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: which was that I wasn't past it. And and many 435 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: years later it was clear that I still had some 436 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: work to do. But at the time, I felt, well, 437 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: you know this is I'm ready to move on. I've 438 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: moved on. I'm I'm studying at Harvard and I'm doing 439 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: something I love, and I don't want to feel like 440 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: when I get to know people that I have to 441 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: say that I can talk about other things. And it 442 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: didn't really work for me. I mean, I did it, 443 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: but I just felt like it was time. And the 444 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: people I told in the intervening years were really few 445 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: and far between. Mary and Michelle have two children, a 446 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: son and a daughter. Born in the profound vulnerability of 447 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: motherhood awakes the sleeping giant of her silenced story. I 448 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: think there were two things. I think that to risk 449 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: loving them as much as I did, I felt like 450 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: that was reignited, like I am going to be more 451 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: vulnerable than I like being. But I'm going to do 452 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: it and I want to do it. But I knew 453 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: that it was going to be hard to feel afraid 454 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: all the time. And you know, when I say that 455 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: out loud, I think, isn't that a shame? Because in 456 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: fact I didn't plan to be afraid, and I didn't 457 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: want my children to experience the impact of trauma, of 458 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: my trauma. I didn't want to. It's still fear in 459 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: them now. I still think about my daughter could climb 460 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: the playground equipment like in the most incredible way, and 461 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: and you know, walk across a ladder that's eight feet 462 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: off the ground on a on a playground equipment that 463 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: I would want to just the whole time, you saying careful, careful, 464 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: and Mary would sort of say she's she's okay. And 465 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: if she falls, Actually, kids know how to fall and 466 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: the playground is made for them to have a soft 467 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: fall if they fall. So I was with somebody who 468 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: was not a daredevil, but who understood that kids have 469 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: to take risks to grow, and that it wasn't serving 470 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: them if I was always like, oh, oh my god, 471 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, like wait, wait, be careful. So I tried 472 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: to hide it. I think what happens when you try 473 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: to hide your nature or especially trauma, it probably is 474 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: in the air somewhere. I really had to reckon with 475 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: my anxiety and my worries about their safety and just 476 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: about what it meant to raise children and have them 477 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: live in a world where awful things happened. They also 478 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: grew up in a home that was full of joy 479 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: and full of love and full of silliness. So it 480 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: wasn't just one sided. But that other part was still 481 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: with me, and it was with me more than I 482 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: was comfortable with. And you also reach a point, I 483 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: think when they're in middle school where telling them it's 484 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: one of those great By great, I mean huge parental dilemmas, 485 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: which is, if there's something that is from a parent's 486 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: own experience that's really really hard, you know, all we 487 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: want to do is protect our children from that knowledge 488 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: and the realization that we can't. Yes, I do believe 489 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: that we should give our children more credit than sometimes 490 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: we do, and so it always struck me that when 491 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: kids are really little and they say things like tell 492 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: me a story, what what did you what was your 493 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: favorite at age growing up, or whatever the questions are, 494 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: and then it's what did you do after college? And 495 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: why did you do that? And then it started to 496 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: feel like I was not being truthful because the questions 497 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: were about my post college life, and I didn't like that. 498 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: And then my daughter, also as a young child, exhibited 499 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety. And at one point she was 500 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: running into our room every night. She was probably three 501 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: or four years old, and she was running into our 502 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: room saying she was having nightmares that the bears were 503 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: going to come into her room and steal her. And 504 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: that was when I said to Mary, I feel like 505 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 1: she must be picking up on something I've never talked 506 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: about what happened to me in front of her, But 507 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: my goodness, she thinks someone's going to come through a 508 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: window and hurt her, Like I totally felt like I 509 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: had somehow she had absorbed that, somehow, in some strange way. 510 00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: We've spoken before on this podcast about inherited or epigenetic trauma, 511 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: the way trauma experienced by a parent can literally alter 512 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: the DNA and impact the child. Michelle and Mary are 513 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: very present parents, deeply conscious wanting to be upfront and 514 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: honest with their children. They've talked to their kids from 515 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: the time they were little about what it means to 516 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: have two moms, what they might hear in school, and 517 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: how their moms might help emotionally support them. But on 518 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: the subject of Michelle's violent attack and how it happened, 519 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: Michelle and Mary put that off. Maybe their kids didn't 520 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: need to know. But once their son and daughter reached 521 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: middle school and Michelle's profile has risen as an activist 522 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 1: for law enforcement reform, she decides that it's time to 523 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: tell them about her history. We decided to tell my 524 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: daughter because I found out from Mary that my son 525 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: already knew, and so I guess she had kept a 526 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: secret from me that he had read an article I 527 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: had been working on, and he told her, but he 528 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: didn't want to tell men. And it was interesting. It 529 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: was like we were all being guided by this silence. 530 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: So I wasn't telling them what I was working on, 531 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: and then he saw it, looked at it without me knowing, 532 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: and then he didn't want to tell me. And and 533 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: so when I tried to talk to him about if. 534 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: He said, you know, I don't really want to talk 535 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: about it. I'm just sorry that happened to you. And 536 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to respect how an adolescent boy might not 537 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: know how to talk to his mother about it. So 538 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: I said, okay, Ben, but we'll talk about it more 539 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: when you're ready. And so we told our daughter. Mary 540 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: told her and then I followed up, and she was shocked, 541 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: she was upset. She, you know, had a lot of questions. 542 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: We wouldn't not tell them that my father died or 543 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: that Mary's father died when we were young, and that 544 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: had a huge impact on us. And yet this was 545 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: something I had held and it was a big relief, 546 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: and it was something that I wrote about and labeled it, 547 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: called it Eventually you have to tell your kids. And 548 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: there were more people who were interested in wanting to 549 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 1: talk to me about that, not because of my experience, 550 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: but they said, I've wondered that question about my kids 551 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 1: because I And then it might be something else. It 552 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: might be abuse, it might be you know someone in 553 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,720 Speaker 1: the family who doesn't speak to them anymore for whatever 554 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: the reason is, and they don't even know that person exists, 555 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: Like all the all kinds of secrets. Michelle does a 556 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: speech around this time in which the first sentence is 557 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: I am a rape survivor. This is very deliberate on 558 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,439 Speaker 1: her part. After so many years of silence, She's going 559 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: to name it, She's going to own it. In the 560 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: wake of that speech, she feels more like her genuine 561 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: self than she has in a very long time. And 562 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: this makes so much sense, right. We don't choose our stories. 563 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: As my dear friend Sylvia Borstein, the great Buddhist teacher 564 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: who has been a guest on this podcast, often says, 565 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: it's not what I wanted, but it's what I've got. 566 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: The more we're able to own the totality of our 567 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 1: life's experience, the more possibility there is for wholeness of 568 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: self and with one's family as well. It's true that 569 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: when you fight against what you can't escape, you can't 570 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: be your true self. And I have figured that out 571 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: over many years. And part of the reason I think 572 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: people fight against that is that they think that if 573 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: they accept that, they're accepting what happened to them. And 574 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: I don't think the two have to go together. I 575 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: think that you can say I'm not glad that's happened 576 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: to me, And it did, and sure's what I'm going 577 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: to try to make of my life, even though I 578 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: wish it never happened. In Michelle visits the Boston Sexual 579 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: Assault Unit for the first time. It's a unit that 580 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: was created at almost exactly the same time as her rape. 581 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,399 Speaker 1: She's hoping to be able to identify her attackers now 582 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: that tracing DNA is so much more prevalent, but her 583 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: rape kit and evidence have been missing for many years, 584 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: as is true horrifyingly true of thousands of women. She's 585 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: looking for closure. She discovers while at the Boston Sexual 586 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: Assault Unit that the detective who was so dismissive and 587 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: insensitive thirty years earlier, that detective had never pursued her case. 588 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: It was considered closed. But there are many different forms 589 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: of closure, and the words finally come to Michelle, words 590 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: that strike me as somehow sacred. Embrace your life fully, 591 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: the one almost robbed from you. I was done feeling 592 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: like I was looking backward to find a sense of peace, 593 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: and I decided that I could look forward, and that 594 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 1: I didn't want to waste any more time with people 595 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: who weren't going to help me. Look, and that finding 596 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 1: the answer wasn't going to give me the closure I thought. 597 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: And that was when I really started to feel like 598 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: things had changed in a way that I'm deeply grateful happened. 599 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. Molly 600 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: Zachor is the story editor and Dylan Fagan is the 601 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: executive producer. If you have a family secret you'd like 602 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: to share, please leave us a voicemail and your story 603 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: could appear on an upcoming episode. Our number is one 604 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,879 Speaker 1: eight eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. You can 605 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: also find me on Instagram at Danny writer. And if 606 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: you'd like to know more about the story that inspired 607 00:41:38,719 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: this podcast, check out my memoir Inheritance. For more podcasts 608 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 609 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.