1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Welcome in Wins and Lost his podcast. We have been 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: rolling up a lot of these interviews of late with 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: a great bevy of fascinating people in the world of sports, 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: media and politics. We are joined now by the Senator 5 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: from Texas, one of the senators from Texas. He is 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz, Senator Cruz. It's super Bowl week. People may 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: be listening to this well after the Super Bowl. So 8 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: I'll put you on the spot early with a tough question. 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: Who do you think gets it done here? Do you 10 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: think the Chiefs or do you think that the Bucks 11 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: are going to be the Super Bowl champ when the 12 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: NFL season finishes, Well, I think we're gonna have a 13 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: close game and uh Brady has certainly shown an ability 14 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: to pull it out against impossible odds. That being said, 15 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: Mahomes is a is a beast and so so if 16 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: you if you push me, I'd say it's probably Kansas 17 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: Cities game. We have spent a lot of time on 18 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: this show, as I know you have seen, and we've 19 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: interacted a decent amount on social media, pushing as hard 20 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: as we possibly can for sports to be played, not 21 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: just pro sports, high school sports, college sports. How important 22 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: do you think it has been for sports too, in 23 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: many ways lead the way in showing how things are 24 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: able to get done in America as opposed to curling 25 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: up in the fetal position and saying the challenges are 26 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: too are too much, we can't find a way to 27 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: get through and continue our business, continue our play during COVID. Well, look, 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: I think it is important that that people be able 29 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: to go to their jobs, go to work, provide for 30 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: their kids, provide for their families, and people are seeing 31 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: through sports that it's possible that it can happen. Listen. 32 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: I think the NBA, the way they did the bubble 33 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: for the playoffs last year was was very well done. 34 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: I mean that the fact that they pulled it off 35 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: right in fairly early in the pandemic was was impressive. Uh, 36 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: And I think it was. You know, it's a contrast 37 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: contrast that's say two movies. I'm a huge movie buff. 38 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: I love movies. You know, Hollywood is essentially shut down, 39 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: Broadway is shut down. You know, think of of the 40 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: thousands of people who are unemployed. And you know, not 41 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: just big, big, fancy movie stars who have the resources 42 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: to to make it through it, but you know, people 43 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: who work on lighting and gaffers and carpenters and electricians 44 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: who the entire industry is devastated and and thankfully sports 45 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: has done a better job of of showing that that 46 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: that we can try to be safe and protect people, 47 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: but but not utterly destroy their livelihoods at the same time. 48 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: It is really emblematic I think of where America has 49 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: gone that you now hear people say it's brave and 50 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: courageous when people say we can't do something right. I mean, 51 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: and you know, your family has an immigrant background as well, 52 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: like like most people who were in America on some 53 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: level came here from somewhere else. Right. The idea that 54 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: we are now praising people when they say, oh, it's 55 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: impossible to do something is fundamentally to me, the opposite 56 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: of what America should stand for. I think that's right. 57 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: And if you look at different jurisdictions, there as some 58 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: jurisdictions that have shut everything down. And and you know, 59 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: if you're a restaurant owner in New York City, I mean, 60 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: I think it is just unconscionable what they've done. They've 61 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: just destroyed small businesses. You know that that sometimes may 62 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 1: have been built by two three generations of families, and 63 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: you've seen politicians just cavalierly shut them down. Um, I 64 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: think we ought to be able to walk and shootgum. 65 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: At the same time, we can't totally eliminate risk, you know, 66 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: I mean, if you if you know, I guess we 67 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: could all lock ourselves in a bubble and never never 68 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: interact with with anyone on planet Earth, and that would 69 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: that would reduce risk. But that's not a not a 70 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: world anyone who wants to live in. And and so 71 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: I think we need some some common sense. Um. And 72 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: and I will say I think Texas by and large 73 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: has followed that path where we've taken the pandemic seriously, 74 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: but we've also small businesses to be able to open 75 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: and and a restaurant spreads out a little bit more. 76 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you take reasonable protective steps, but you don't 77 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: just obliterate people's entire livelihoods. You know. It's it's a 78 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: fascinating window into the importance of federalism. And I don't 79 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: know in our lives that it has ever mattered more 80 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: who the governor of your state happened to be than 81 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: right now right, and who the mayor of your city 82 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: might have been. Because we've got all these different little 83 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: laboratories to deal with COVID, and you mentioned Texas. I 84 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: think Florida and Texas, among the big states, have clearly 85 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: done the best at balancing risk while also maintaining people's 86 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: ability to continue their livelihood. And you contrast that with 87 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: New York and with California, and it's not a surprise. 88 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: I was looking at the data on net migrations. The 89 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: three states I live in, Tennessee, the three states that 90 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: have gained the most residents during this whole mess of 91 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: COVID Tennessee, Texas, and Florida. What do they all have 92 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: in common? They have figured out a way to keep 93 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: businesses open while also trying to protect their residents. Meanwhile, 94 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: people are fleeing from New York, Illinois, and California, three 95 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: of the most restrictive places in the entire country. It's 96 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: an interesting laboratory to study their response and see who 97 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: has done the best job in a way that many 98 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: countries who are more national in scope might not have 99 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: had those different laboratories to examine. Yeah, that that that 100 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: that is exactly right. Um. You know a stat that 101 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: that I've cited for some time is the cost of 102 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: a one way U haul from California to Texas. It 103 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: used to be it was three more to go from 104 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: California to Texas that it was to go the other 105 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: way around. It's actually risen more than that. So right now, 106 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: to get a twenty four ft U haul from San 107 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: Francisco to Austin, Texas cost five thousand dollars. To take 108 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: the same truck back cost nine eight six dollars because 109 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: all the traffic is going one way. That's right, nobody 110 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: go on the up. It's fascinating. That's actually a really 111 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: great data point. That pathway that you're talking about Senator 112 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: crews from Austin, I mean from San Francisco to Austin. 113 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: Also San Francisco to Miami, San Francisco, Nashville. Big tech 114 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: is starting to break up that corporate hegemony that had 115 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: existed in San Francisco. I know you have a lot 116 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: of concerns about this, as do I. I don't try 117 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: to get incredibly partisan on a day to day basis, 118 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: certainly not with my shows. But the thing that I 119 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: believe in is the marketplace of ideas. And I don't 120 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: think there's any doubt by anyone who is active on 121 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: social media that we don't have a full fledged marketplace 122 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: of ideas in the American ecosystem like we have in 123 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: past years. What should be done to big tech companies 124 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: that are making the decision to pull Parlor off of 125 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: their servers, like Amazon did to not allow certain apps 126 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: to be available at Apple or at Google. This idea 127 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: of hey, you don't have the right to spread your 128 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: particular viewpoint if it conflates or conflicts with ours is 129 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: to me fundamentally scary because, as you know, many of 130 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: the great ideas that emerge in American thought initially were 131 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: considered to be ludicrous and absurd, but because of the 132 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: marketplace of ideas, they were able to gain cogency and acceptance. 133 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: And that's how our country evolves in an intelligent and 134 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: efficacious manner. Look, I think that is exactly right. And 135 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: I think the power of big tech uh is the 136 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: single greatest threat we have to free speech in this country. 137 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: And it's the greatest threat we have to our democracy. 138 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: That that we right now have a handful of Silicon 139 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: Valley billionaires with with almost total monopoly power over over 140 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: political discourse and just about every other form of discourse today, 141 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: and and and they're getting more and more brazen in 142 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: how they use that power to silence those views they 143 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: don't like, in the ample by those views they do. 144 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: And it's you know, they've always been biased journalists. That 145 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: that that that's not new in the world. From the 146 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: very first time the first journalists were carving words on 147 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: a stone tablet, there were biased journalists. What's different is 148 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: that that big tech has power that that William Randolph 149 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: Hurst at the height of yellow journalism, could not have imagined. 150 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: Because they control seventy plus percent of people's political news 151 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: is coming online, it's coming through social media, and and 152 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: their bias is invisible as well. If they don't like 153 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: what you say, you simply disappear. They can shadow bang you, 154 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: they can throttle you, and there's zero accountability. And and 155 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: we've seen just the last few months, we saw we 156 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: saw Facebook and Twitter both blocking The New York Post, 157 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: the fourth largest newspaper, decreed, we're shutting you down. And 158 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: we've seen them d platform. The President of the United 159 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: States just said, Okay, we don't like Donald Trump. He's 160 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: no longer allowed to speak. We've seen them, as you 161 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: put it out, what they did to Parlor and what 162 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: they did to Parlor was blatantly illegal and violated the 163 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: antitrust laws. And I fully expect that they will pay 164 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: a big judgment because because you had multiple competitors working 165 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: together in concert to destroy another competitor, and and that 166 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: that is illegal, and they don't care and and it 167 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: is a massive threat. And unfortunately, right now with with 168 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: Democrats in charge of Washington, the Democrats want big tech 169 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: to do more of this, not less. They're in favor 170 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: of big tech censorship and and so I expect the 171 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: problem to get worse before it gets better. What's interesting, 172 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: Senator Cruise about Parlor in particular, And we both have 173 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: legal background, so I always try to talk for an 174 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: audience that might not People say, well, if you violate 175 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: Twitter's user agreement, then you don't have the right to 176 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: speak to your audience through Twitter. And then so Parlor 177 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: was actually created to guarantee that if people didn't have 178 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: the ability to reach their audience through Twitter, they could 179 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: start their own company which had a different genesis of 180 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: what their ideas were going to be. And then Amazon 181 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: Web Services, uh, and also Google and Apple. Amazon said 182 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: we're not gonna host you. Google and Apple said we're 183 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: not going to allow your app to be downloaded, and 184 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: they effectively. I mean, I think this is an analogy 185 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: that people can understand. It's a book burning by Amazon, 186 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: which was a company that was founded to sell books. 187 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: They have eliminated the largest amount of opinion from being 188 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: able to be shared in America, probably in the twenty 189 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: one century anywhere. No dictator could have made the decision 190 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: that Jeff Bezos did to shut down as many people 191 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: instantaneously as he did. Uh. And we've basically have created 192 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: our own Chinese wall, but it's being now monitored by, 193 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: as you said, billionaires in Silicon Valley. I think that's 194 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: exactly right. And as I said, they're getting more and 195 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: more brazen about it. Um. Now, how you solved it 196 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: is a complicated question. I've spent a lot of time 197 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: the last several years sharing multiple hearings in the Senate 198 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: on censorship with big Tech and detailing, uh, detailing all 199 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: the instances of censorship. We've seen the solution. Listen, nobody 200 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: wants to see a federal government speech police. That would 201 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: be a terrible thing. But there are solutions that that 202 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: are consistent with law that also protect free speech. One solution, 203 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: so right now, Big Tech has a special immunity from 204 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: liability under what's called Section to thirty of the Communications 205 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: Decency Act that that Congress gave it to Big Tech 206 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, and and it functions us like corporate welfare. 207 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: It's a benefit that nobody else gets and only big 208 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: Tech gets. The reason big Tech got that immunity from 209 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: liability is because Congress understood that big Big Tech was 210 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: going to be a neutral public forum. In other words, 211 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't gonna put its finger on the scale. It 212 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: was gonna let people speak. And so the reasoning was, well, 213 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: it's not fair to hold them liable for what other 214 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: people are saying if it's a public forum where anyone 215 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: can speak. Well, big Tech has decided to abandon that. 216 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: They are nakedly and brazenly censoring. And if they're going 217 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: to do that, there's no reason on earth that they 218 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: should have a special immunity from liability nobody else gets. Secondly, 219 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: the antitrust laws. By any measure, big Tech is bigger. 220 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: It's more powerful than a T and T was when 221 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: it was broken up under the anti trust laws. It's 222 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: bigger and more powerful than standard oil was when it 223 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: was broken up under the antitrust laws and and it 224 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: has long been existing laws that you cannot abuse monopoly power, 225 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: which is what they're doing. And then the third avenue 226 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: that that that I think needs to be pursued. It 227 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: is a claim that that that sounds in in fraud 228 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: and consumer protection, and it's essentially this the agreement you 229 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: make with big tech when you sign up for a 230 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: social media account. The promise they're making to you is 231 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: that if you follow someone, you'll see what they have 232 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: to say, and if they follow you, they'll see what 233 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: you have to say. Big Tech is breaking that promise. 234 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: They're deciding if they don't like what you have to say. 235 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: The people who have chosen I want to follow Kate 236 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: Clay Travis, well, if they don't like what you have 237 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: to say, they don't get to hear what you say, 238 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: even though they want to hear what you say. And 239 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: and that is fundamentally fraudulent and deceptive. And I think 240 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: with the Biden administration, you're not going to see any 241 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: federal government pressure on this, So it's gonna have to 242 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: come from state attorneys general. It's gonna have to come 243 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: in the states, and it's gonna have to come from 244 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: private litigation, and I expect quite a bit litigation, particularly 245 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: as a big tech gets more and more brazen. I 246 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: think we're gonna see more and more litigation directed that 247 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: you'll be fascinated by this. I've talked a little bit 248 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: about it on the show. We had Donald Trump on 249 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: this radio program, OutKick the coverage that that I most twice. 250 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: The first time that we had him on, we wrote 251 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: about it a lot of OutKick UH and Facebook. In 252 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: the week after we had Trump on, we lost seventy 253 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: percent of our Facebook traffic. Like you can watch if 254 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: if we pull a graph and we show you we wrote, 255 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: you know, four or five different articles because he was 256 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: talking about whether or not college football should play. To 257 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: his credit in the White House's credit, they fought as 258 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: hard as they possibly could to help us make sure 259 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: that college football happens. Most of the stories that we 260 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: were talking about him with were almost entirely sports related. 261 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: We wrote about it, right the President United States comes 262 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: on my show, We're going to write about it on 263 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: the website that that I own as well, right to 264 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: help share that information. We lost seventy p of our 265 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: Facebook traffic UH and our data analysts said it was 266 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: because Donald Trump's name was appearing in so many of 267 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: our articles, and it was not a negative characterization, right. 268 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: It was like President Trump is in favor of college 269 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: football being played. Right, our data people went back and 270 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: looked at it. That's Facebook. It's an unbelievable power that 271 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: they have. As soon as we stopped writing about Donald Trump, 272 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: over the next week, our traffic went right back up. 273 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: But we can directly go to that and say they 274 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: cost us tens of thousands of dollars in the way 275 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: they responded to us writing about Donald Trump coming on 276 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: the radio program. Now, one one thing we could say, 277 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: if we were purely looking to maximize revenue, is we 278 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: would say, oh, Facebook is dinging us. They are telling 279 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: us we can't write anything positive about Donald Trump. As 280 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: long as we don't, our revenue will stay the same. 281 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: But the minute we go positive on Trump, our revenue collapsed. 282 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: We can legitimately show you that him coming on our 283 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: radio program cost us tens of thousands of dollars. That 284 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: is powerful and and it is entirely consistent with the 285 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: conduct they're doing in multiple other instances. You know, one 286 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: of the hearings I shared in the Senate, Dr Robert 287 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: Epstein testified. Uh. He is a psychologist, and he has 288 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: done uh, just about the only empirical research on bias 289 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: and Google searches and and he did it initially in 290 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: twos sixteen where he examined Google searches and and the 291 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: biased outcome that that leans to the left. And he 292 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: concluded that Google's bias searches shifted two point six million 293 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: votes to the Democrats, to Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump. 294 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: Now here's the interesting thing. Clay dr Epstein is not 295 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: a Republican. He is a liberal Democrat who voted for 296 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton and and and who publicly campaigned for Hillary Clinton. 297 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: And yet he was horrified that that big tech has 298 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: the power to just manipulate voters and deceive them. And 299 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: and that that was four years ago. They're they're much 300 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: worse now because they feel that that nothing is holding 301 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: the back, there are no limits. It is terrifying, fascinating, 302 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: And I think the story of our age, the other 303 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: big story of our age, I think big tech is 304 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: one of the massive story censorship, cancel culture, the way 305 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: that all of that roles together with identity politics. The 306 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: other one is China. And to me, for the world 307 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: of sports, what happened with Darryl Moray, who is down 308 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: in Houston, in your home state of Texas, when he 309 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 1: came out and supported Hong Kong democracy. The NBA, which 310 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: wants to claim that it is a bastion of social 311 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: justice warriordom, that they are worried about being on the 312 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: right and wrong side of history. Amazing silence, right, Lebron James, 313 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: who speaks out all the time, didn't have a word 314 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: to say other than sometimes the First Amendment can be 315 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: a bad thing, which is an amazing quote to have. Uh. 316 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: Greg popa bitch who I'm gonna get to in a minute, 317 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: Steve Kerr. They pop off on everything that the president 318 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: was doing, Donald Trump. They don't say a word about China. 319 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: So I want to circle around on on China a 320 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: little bit, and in particular the NBA's relationship with China. 321 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: Greg Popovich, Uh went after you. I saw quotes recently. 322 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: I know Mark Cuban has come after you. Mark Cuban 323 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: has has come after me for people out there, obviously 324 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: Dallas Mavericks, Mark Cuban, as well as Greg Popovich of 325 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: the San Antonio Spurs. Uh. When you hear Greg Popovitch, 326 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: I know you're a basketball fan. I know you've liked 327 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: to watch the NBA over the years. When you hear 328 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: Greg Popovitch going after you, when Mark Cuban is going 329 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: after you for your political opinions, but they won't say 330 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: a word about genocide in China. About I saw recently 331 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: an article I was reading today about forced rape of 332 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: weaker women by by people in China, and they're using literal, 333 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: literal slave labor to make their products. Nike is uh. 334 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: The NBA has had their own factory of basketball uh 335 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: in that province where the wagers are being held in 336 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: concentration camps. How about that hypocrisy that they would not 337 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: say a word about that, but they come after you 338 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: for your political opinions. Well, it's it's massive hypocrisy. And 339 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: and the the n b A and and pro sports 340 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: in general made a big bet that there's a whole 341 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: lot of money to be made in China, and they're 342 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: willing to look the other way on on torture and 343 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: murder and horrific human rights abuses because they stand to 344 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: make a big buck. So so Daryl Morey sent a 345 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: really mild tweet to start this all. Stand with Hong Kong, 346 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: Stand Stand for liberty and democracy. I think it's what 347 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: he said. Um and and by the way, he was right, 348 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: because they've taken it away. Of course he was right. 349 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: But but it illustrates a couple of things. Number One, look, 350 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: you and I know who Darryl Mori is. I'm a 351 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: die hard Rockets and I bleed Rockets read. But but 352 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: most people in the country didn't know who Daryl Morey was. 353 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: Frankly when he sent the tweet that that was not 354 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: going to be heard by a whole lot of people 355 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: until the Chinese communists lost their minds and they freaked 356 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: out about it because so terrified of criticism. And and 357 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: the one friendly amendment I'd make to what you just 358 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: said is you said the NBA state silent about it. No, 359 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: they did worse than state silent about it, which is 360 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: they groveled an apology and they and by the way, 361 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: what did what did? What did China do? It shut 362 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: down all of the Rockets and NBA sales of of 363 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: uniforms in China. Of course we used to have Yao Ming, 364 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: so actually the Rockets a very popular team in China. 365 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: They shut that all down. Lebron James blasted Maury for 366 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: saying that he was defending China, said all more, he 367 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: doesn't understand China. Really, Lebron, what is there to understand 368 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: about concentration camps and murder and torture. But look, you 369 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: understand what Lebron is interested in. You understand what Mark 370 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: Cuban is interested in. They're interested in bucks. They're interested 371 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: in Mark Cuban is making millions of dollars by making 372 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: the communist government in China happy. And they have total 373 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: control over whether Mark Cuban makes that money or not. 374 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: And so the NBA, it's about the Benjamin's and and 375 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: so you know, look this last NBA season when they 376 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: had the ridiculous uh practice of putting all the NBA 377 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: players having slogans on the back of their u uh 378 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: back of their jerseys. You know, I and a number 379 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: of other people said, okay, how about free Hong Kong. Yeah, 380 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: how about remember Tanneman square. I mean, look, you're all 381 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: for political speech. Oh no, no, no, no no, just the 382 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: political speech that happens to agree with everything in your politics. 383 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: That's the only speech you'll allow it. It's massive hypocrisy. 384 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: You mentioned that you're a Houston Rockets fan. Um Die 385 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: died in the wool, long time Houston Rockets in total 386 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: sports question here for you. Do you think that the 387 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 1: Rockets would have won the two championships that they did 388 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: if Michael Jordan hadn't retired. That tells me that you 389 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: are a huge Houston Rockets fan, because that's that's Houston 390 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: Rocket fandom to the core. And listen. And I adored 391 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: Jordan's I mean, I mean, it's it's I think Jordan 392 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: is the greatest it's ever played on on on the 393 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: Jordan Lebron debate. I don't even think it's close. But 394 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: that's so ninety four when the Rockets won our first finals. 395 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: I was at game seven when we beat the Knicks, 396 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: when John Starks went oh for eleven. I mean it 397 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: was and it was in the summit. Kilson had never 398 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: won a championship at any sports and and and it 399 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 1: will remain the sports highlight of my life. Where afterwards 400 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: you had businessmen in three piece suits crying and hugging 401 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: homeless man. I mean, it brought the city together. A 402 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: la Juan was extraordinary. He dominated. Um. I've actually got 403 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: sitting next to me in my office right now, a 404 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: piece of the floor from from the from the summit 405 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: signed by that ninety four Rockets. Oh that's awesome. Where 406 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: were you sitting, by the way, how old were you 407 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: in ninety four? So ninety four, I was twenty four. 408 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 1: I was in law school, and I had the incredible 409 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: good luck. I was working at a law firm in 410 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: Houston as a summer associate called Baker Bots, and baker 411 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: Bots happens to represent the Rockets. And I worked there 412 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: two summers ninety four and ninety five, the two years 413 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: we won the finals, and and so like. I went 414 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: to the firm early on and I said, look, you 415 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: don't need to take me out to launch or dinner. 416 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: You know often when for the summer programs they wine 417 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: and dine students quite a bit. I said, don't buy 418 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: me a meal all all summer long. I'll have hot 419 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: dogs at the Hot Ducks stand downstairs. Just get me 420 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: to the games. That's all I ask is, I want 421 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: to go to the games. And so I went to 422 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of the games, and and and it's kind 423 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: of a funny story. So for Games seven, the firm 424 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: was not going to send the summer associates to the game. 425 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: They decided they were going to send the associates, the 426 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: people who were already working at the firm there instead. 427 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: And I went into the lawyer who was the kind 428 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: of lead lawyer for the Rockets, and and I went 429 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: in with another buddy of mind. We were both summer associates. 430 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: And I said, uh I, I said, Mike um Amy 431 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: and I we we've decided we've got to go to 432 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: Game seven and and so we're just gonna go to 433 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: a scalp or we're gonna buy tickets. We just we 434 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: can't let this happen and not go. And and I said, 435 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: you know, do you know any scalpers maybe where we 436 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,959 Speaker 1: could get some decent rates. And we just looked at him, 437 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: and he looked at us for about thirty seconds in silence, 438 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: and he just cracked up laughing. He's like, all right, 439 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: damn it, I'll get you tickets, but you can't tell 440 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: anyone else. And I said, done, done, And so I 441 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: ended up getting tickets for for faith value was seventy 442 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: five bucks. And I was seated right behind one of 443 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: the backboards and I was seeing it kind of right 444 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: to the side side of where Dr J and Bob 445 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: Costas were broadcasting the game, and and actually part of 446 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: The fun was when the during the commercial breaks, uh, 447 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: dr J was bust In Costas going, man, you're Nick suck. 448 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: That was the funniest part of the whole game, was 449 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: just hearing dr J do that off camera. Fox Sports 450 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. 451 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,120 Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot 452 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f 453 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: s R to listen live. That was an amazing run. 454 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: So the NTO game seven, Patrick Ewing never gets it 455 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: done out there for people. I mean, that was an 456 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: amazing series and like you mentioned, John Starks just fell 457 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: apart now the next year to help the Rockets argument. 458 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: And by the way, this is the Wins and Losses Podcast. 459 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. We're talking to Senator Ted Cruz of Texas. 460 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: Jordan's came back, ended up losing that series to the 461 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: Orlando Magic, and then you guys win a second title 462 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: before Jordan wins. Is three in a row. For some 463 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: guys out there are young, they may not remember that 464 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: that era of nineties era NBA basketball, which by the way, 465 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: is I think the peak, the absolute peak of the 466 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: NBA in America. Well, I had always defined my perfect 467 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: basketball game would be a game Rockets against the Bulls 468 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 1: in the finals, game seven. Uh, to have the Rockets win, 469 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: but to have Jordan's score a hundred points and break 470 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: Wilts record. Yeah. And and I never was a Scottie 471 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,959 Speaker 1: Pippen fan, so I actually finished it off with and 472 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: have Pippin playing for the Bulls tip the ball in 473 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: accidentally in our bucket, the winning basket for us. Did 474 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: you watch the Last Dance by the Way documentary? Every 475 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: minute of it? And I think my favorite moment is 476 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: when they play Gary Peyton talking about covering uh, covering 477 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: Jordan and Jordan's laugh about you know, I think I 478 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: could handle the of it was so real, it was incredible. 479 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: It was. That's such a great nostalgic time back, like 480 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: the Dennis Rodman stories. You knew in the nineties that 481 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: those were great, but there's so much more fun. I mean, 482 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: that nineties era Bowl team is I think the most 483 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: beloved American sporting franchise ever. Right, you're a Rockets fan. 484 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: I didn't grow up with a particular affinity for a team, 485 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: but I was obsessed with the nineties arab Bles, and 486 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: I think a huge number of people out there listening are, 487 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: and it was because they were just such an exhilarating 488 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: team to play and Jordan himself is I think that 489 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: the signature achievement. I don't know if you go to 490 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: a concert or you go to watch someone who has 491 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: to put on a performance. He was so incredible every 492 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: night that I don't think people really who haven't experienced him. 493 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: You mentioned the Jordan's versus Lebron argument. The amount of 494 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: intensity and effort he brought to bear, whether it was 495 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: a random Tuesday night in the fourteenth game of the 496 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: season or whether it was Game seven of the NBA 497 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: Finals is unmatched I think ever in the history of basketball. Look, 498 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: I completely agree, and where I think Jordan took it 499 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: to another level is at the end of any game 500 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: that was close, that mattered, you knew Jordan was going 501 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: to have the ball, you knew he was going to 502 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: take the shot, you knew he was going to be 503 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: triple teamed, and you know he was gonna make it. 504 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: I mean, it was you know that there's all the 505 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: you know truisms, things like you know, ice water in 506 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: the veins, but it's just it was a level of 507 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: just stone cold killer that that. I mean, he would 508 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: always always perform. By the way, I'll give you a 509 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: a fantasy alternative universe, which is if you remember the Rockets, 510 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: we had two years in a row. We had back 511 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: to back number one draft picks. We picked Ralph Sampson 512 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: first year, the second year we picked a la Juan. 513 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: That draft that a la Juan came out. Jordan was 514 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: also in the draft. A large one was drafted number one. 515 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: The Bulls drafted Jordan number three. Sam Booie went number two. 516 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: Who was washed in there between those two. I believe, yep, 517 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And and look, you can't fault Houston 518 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: for drafting a la Juan. He was coming out of 519 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: University of Houston. Vice slamm A Jamma. I mean it was. 520 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: It was a great, great pick. But imagine if Houston 521 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: had gone to the Bulls and said, will trade you 522 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: Ralph Sampson, who we drafted the year earlier with the 523 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: number one pick and he just one rookie of the year, 524 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: will trade you Ralph Sampson for the number three pick. 525 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: We could have drafted a la Juan and Jordan's that 526 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: would have been. That would have been That would have 527 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: been one hell of a team, even a little bit 528 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: better than Bill Cartwright. I think in Bill Winnington, we're 529 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: talking to Senator Ted Cruz. What do you think about 530 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: James Harden. You're you're a Rockets fan. You had those 531 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: moments in You've Gotten close. I know you had another 532 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: game seven where you guys couldn't hit a three four 533 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: for every dollar on the I mean that was probably 534 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: tough for you to watch. That was twenty three miss 535 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: threes in a row or whatever the heck it was. Um, 536 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: what do you think about Harden going to Brooklyn? What 537 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: do you think about the future of the Rockets? Oh, 538 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,479 Speaker 1: look at my heart is sad at at Harden leaving. 539 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: He's one hell of an offensive force. You're right that 540 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: game where we could only shoot threes? Like did nobody 541 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: remember how to drive to the basket? Like like okay, fine, 542 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: you're not hitting threes, Like do something else, damn it, 543 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: get to the foul line. But but we couldn't do that. 544 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: I'm sad to see hard and go because he's extraordinary 545 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: and historic and the offensive outpit. But the last Cup 546 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: three years is unmatched. I mean, the numbers you have 547 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: to go back to to Chamberlain to find anything even 548 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: close that being sad. Listen, I'm this This new team 549 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: is kind of growing on me. I mean it's it's 550 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: it came together kind of eclectically. But but you know, 551 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: John wall if he if he can stay healthy, he 552 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: looks like he's got speed, he's got agility. Oladipo is 553 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: a heck of a player. Um Eric gordon As has 554 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: been playing very strong, and I'm really liking Boogie Cousins. 555 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: I mean, Boogie is you know, people forget before he 556 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: got hurt that he was one hell of a ball 557 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: player and he's he hustles and then and then we've 558 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: got p J. Tucker, Christian Would who who I didn't 559 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: really know till he till he came to Houston, but 560 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: but would as planned. I think that the Rockets could 561 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: surprise folks this year when it was supposed to be 562 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: a rebuilding year. But but if we could actually stay healthy, 563 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: I think there's a shot now also in Houston. And 564 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: I know you're a Houston heiras area sports fan Deshaun 565 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: Watson is all the rage right to talk about what 566 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: should happen there. Let's pretend in a different world that 567 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: you were not a politician and you owned the Houston Texans. 568 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: What would you do with Deshaun Watson. Would you sit 569 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: down with him and just try to figure out a 570 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: way to work it out, or do you think at 571 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: this point, based on all the reports out there, it's 572 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: time to just see if you can get a king's 573 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: ransom for him using Obviously the Matthew Stafford trade to 574 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: the Rams is kind of a template of what value 575 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: Deshaun Watson might carry. The question is is he persuadable? Uh? 576 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: And and I don't know so, so I think at 577 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: a minimum you have to sit down and talk with him. 578 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen the reports that says, let's say 579 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: you want to leave. That's obviously with the Rockets, what 580 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: they were saying about Harden. With Harden, that certainly seemed 581 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: to be the case. Um As a Texans fan, my 582 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: my heart is grieving. I think Watson is is. I mean, 583 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: he can move, he can throw. But that being said, 584 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: I mean the Texans were J. J. Watt to you 585 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: guys might lose J. J. Watt as well. The talk 586 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: is that you're basically could be using losing two of 587 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: the faces of the franchise. Well and and and we 588 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: we let Dandrad Hopkins go for nothing, like you just 589 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: handed him away, you know, one of the elite receivers 590 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: in the league. We just said okay, by go. That 591 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: was the moment actually that I started, like several buddies mine, 592 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: we're texting each other just you know what the hell 593 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: like like. And the problem is without a receiving corps. 594 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: You know, for Watson, you can understand you're going four 595 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: and twelve saying all right, get me out of here. 596 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: I want to win. I don't necessarily fault him. What 597 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: I'd like to see is the team go to Watson 598 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: and say we're gonna build a Super Bowl contender team 599 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: around you and make it so worried want to stay. 600 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: But I don't know if that's doable right now. What 601 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: about that the Houston Astros? Did you feel like the 602 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: title was in any way? I know you talked about 603 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: Houston not necessarily winning a lot of championships. When the 604 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: Astros win that championship, did it feel in any way 605 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: tainted by the reports that came out later about the 606 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: signals from the dugout, the banging on the trash cans, those, uh, 607 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: the fallout from that those titles. Yeah, of course it 608 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: was and and and it Uh, that that was hard. 609 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: I will say when we won the World Series in 610 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: that that was an incredible, incredible that that whole playoffs. 611 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: I was at games three, four, and five of the 612 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: of the World Series, so all the Houston games, and 613 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: and you know, there are moments in sports that are 614 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: really beautiful. And if you remember what was happening in seen, 615 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: Houston had just gone through Hurricane Harvey, and and it 616 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: was this, you know, the second most costly natural disaster 617 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 1: in US history. Was devastating and and there was at 618 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: the time a a meme online of a guy in 619 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: his living room sitting on a lawn chair with all 620 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: the carpet ripped up, all the sheet rock ripped up, 621 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: no furniture, a TV set playing the game, and he's 622 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: standing in an Astro's jersey, cheering as his entire home 623 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: has been destroyed. And and it said, this is why 624 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 1: it matters. And I gotta say that victory parade, and 625 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: I was part of the parade in Houston. We had 626 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: a million people come out his first World Series. What 627 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: everyone the only World Series who every won. But but 628 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: it was it was a beautiful moment celebration for the 629 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: city that that was incredibly powerful, and I love that team. 630 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: Looked at the trash can banging and all of that. 631 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: Of of course, it tarnishes it. And it just I 632 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: think all Houston fans are just sad about it. And 633 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: and you know, my daughter Katherine as a softball player, 634 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: she's ted now. Um. I took her to Game five. 635 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: So it was the day after her eighth birthday. It 636 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: was October and game five, you remembers, the one that 637 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: went to one thirty in the morning, was in screadible 638 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: game and and and it was just Katherine and me. 639 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: It was daddy daughter, just the two of us. And 640 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: I told her that. I said, Katherine, you don't realize this, 641 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: but you're gonna tell your grandkids you were here for 642 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: the greatest baseball game in the history of the Houston Astros. 643 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: And and and it was when the whole sign stealing 644 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: scandal broke and I had to explain it to Catherine. 645 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: And she asked, you know about you know, different stars, 646 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: did they know? And I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, they 647 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: did know. And and and she said, well, Daddy, what 648 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: why would they do that? Why would they be willing 649 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: to cheat? And I said, well, you know, sweethearts, sometimes 650 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: the pressure to win can be really, really tough. And 651 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: she looks at me and says, well, don't they know 652 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you win or lose. It matters 653 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: how you play the game. And I was just I 654 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: just tugged her and I was like, you know, I 655 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: told her softball coach. I said, See, she's listening. Yeah, 656 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: that's fantastic. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk 657 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at 658 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart 659 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 1: Radio app search f s are to listen live. We're 660 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: talking to Senator Ted Cruz. Wins and Losses. I'm Clay Travis. Uh. 661 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: A couple of questions for you here as we as 662 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: we wind down, and obviously we canna get you on 663 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: more often to talk Houston sports, by the way, because 664 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: I think people are really going to enjoy this. A 665 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: couple of things. Um, you talked about Jordan's and I 666 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 1: think we agree being the best basketball player of all time. 667 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: He and Brady probably the greatest team sport athletes of 668 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: all time. You've worked in politics for a while, who 669 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: in your mind is the Jordan's and or the Brady 670 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: of the political universe, And maybe also the judicial universe. 671 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: People that you've seen and you're like, man, their talent 672 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: is just on a different level in terms of the 673 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: political and judicial universe. In the political world, I'd have 674 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: to say Ronald Reagan. Um. You know, for me, I've 675 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: got in in my office here the Senate, I have 676 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: the busts of three people. I have a bust of Reagan. 677 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: I have a bust of Winston Churchill, and I have 678 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: a bust of of Dr Barton Luther King Jr. And 679 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: And I think all three of them as leaders, they 680 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: were visionaries that that they could see beyond enormous challenges, 681 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: enormous hurdles, and they lead lead their nations through massive challenges. 682 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: They inspired millions and changed the world. And two of 683 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: the three suffered an assassin's bullet. And and so I 684 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: would say Reagan in terms of the ability to inspire 685 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: and and and to speak to our better angels and 686 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: touch our hearts and minds. You know, I was ten 687 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: years old when Reagan became president. I was eighteen when 688 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: he left the White House. And I think for a 689 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: whole generation of Americans, ron Reagan defined what it meant 690 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: to be president, that hopeful, optimistic belief in America belief 691 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: and freedom, that that that happy warrior, you know, you 692 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: know there was a prior generation of politicians that were 693 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,479 Speaker 1: mean and angry and nasty and and and Reagan rose 694 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: above that. I think that's something UH A lot more 695 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: of us need to do a lot more often. What 696 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: about judiciary wise? Judicial wise, is there someone who written 697 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: opinions or I know, again the law background with you, 698 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: who would you say, is that level the Jordan's the 699 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: Brady in your mind of the judicial verse? You know 700 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: two people that I would focus on in in recent history, 701 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: and number one Anson and Scalia, who was who was 702 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: brilliant and who I knew well it was an extraordinary writer. Uh. 703 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: And then number two, Chief Justice William renk Quist, who 704 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 1: was my boss. I worked for Chief Justice renk Quist, 705 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: was a law clerk for him and and knew him well. 706 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,919 Speaker 1: And this is actually a good way to wrap things 707 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: up because there's a connection between Chief Justice renk Quist 708 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: and the Houston Rockets and and it's going to surprise you. 709 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: So I'm a third year law student. I get called 710 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,720 Speaker 1: for an interview from UH to interview with the Chief Justice, 711 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: and his secretary calls and says, you know, can you 712 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: be here tomorrow for the interviews. That sure, I'll be 713 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: there whenever you want. So I was in Houston, I 714 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: flew up to d C. I had the interviews at 715 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: two o'clock in the afternoon. Lasted seventeen minutes. Was a 716 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: short interview. Uh. The interview went fairly well. And as 717 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: we're walking out, UM, I had tried something of a joke. 718 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: I said, I said, you know, Mr Chief Justice, I'm 719 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: actually bitter sweet to be here right now. And and 720 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: he looks at me kind of puzzled. He said, well, 721 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? And I said, well, 722 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: tonight is Game four of the NBA Finals and and 723 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: my Houston Rockets are getting way to sweep Orlando and 724 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: win the second of back to back championships. And I 725 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: was going to the game tonight, and I gave up 726 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: the tickets to go to the game to come here 727 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: and interview with you. And the Chief cracked up laughing, 728 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: and he said, well, I think you made is the 729 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,839 Speaker 1: right decision. Uh, and it's probably the reason I got 730 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: the jobs. I made him laugh, and he figured, all right, 731 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,879 Speaker 1: if you made me laugh, it'll it'll be all right 732 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: to work with him for a year. That's outstanding. Uh, 733 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: Senator Ted Cruz, I appreciate the time. I know how 734 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: busy you are. We'll get you on again to talk 735 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: some more sports in the future. But in the meantime, 736 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: for people out there who might not be following you, 737 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,399 Speaker 1: what's the best way for them to track you down 738 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: and keep up with what you're doing? So on Twitter 739 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 1: at Ted Cruz. I've got a podcast Verdict with Ted Cruz, Uh, 740 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: that which is doing really well, right, I've I've heard 741 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: that it's being very well received so far. Yeah. We 742 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: launched it a year ago during impeachment. It became the 743 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: number one podcast in the world at that time. I 744 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: mean it's we've had over twenty five million downloads. Um. 745 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: And then I just have a new book actually on 746 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: the question you asked about the Supreme Court. The book 747 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: I just wrote is called One Vote Away, How a 748 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: Single Supreme Court Seat Can Change History And and that 749 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: became the number one best seller on Amazon and and 750 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: so it gives the inside story of the Court and 751 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: the justices and it and it answers in a lot 752 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: greater depth. Uh. The question you asked about great justices 753 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: and decisions and how our liberties are are hanging by 754 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: a single vote. Let me ask you one more, because 755 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: you mentioned impeachment and you did that podcast that was 756 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: so well received. The impeachment trial of Donald Trump. The 757 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: second impeachment trial of Donald Trump is going to happen. 758 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: It appears to be dead on arrival, based on the 759 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,439 Speaker 1: forty five Republicans who have already said, basically, we don't 760 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: believe it has jurisdiction. You worked in the Supreme Court 761 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 1: as a clerk, you're obviously a legal scholar as well. 762 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: For people out there who may not be familiar with it, 763 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: what's going to happen? What do you believe of this 764 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: second impeachment trial? I think you're exactly right. It's it's 765 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: not going to go anywhere. Uh, You're going to see 766 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: the Democrats from the House present their case attacking President Trump. 767 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: I don't think it makes sense to be doing impeachment. 768 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 1: The President is already out of the White House, he's left. 769 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: I think this is really an exercise in in partisan vindictiveness, 770 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: and I think they're big challenges in the country. I 771 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: think we ought to be working to try to get 772 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,879 Speaker 1: people back to work and restart the economy coming out 773 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: of this pandemic. Rather than a petty political trial. But 774 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the result is clear. 775 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: In order for the president to be convicted in an 776 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,839 Speaker 1: impeachment trial, it takes two thirds of the Senate. That's 777 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: sixty senators. That's not gonna happen. All the Democrats are 778 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: going to vote to convict him, and the facts don't matter, 779 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: by the way, they just hate him. All of the 780 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,399 Speaker 1: Democrats are going to vote to convictim. And I think 781 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,879 Speaker 1: there'll be a handful of Republicans who do as well. 782 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: You mentioned the vote that was that's probably a pretty 783 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,240 Speaker 1: good proxy for where we end up, but it's gonna 784 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:26,240 Speaker 1: be well short of and so it will be a 785 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: partisan demonstration by the Democrats and then it will go 786 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: nowhere at the end of the day. Would you ever 787 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: want to be on the Supreme Court as opposed? I 788 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: know you've run for presidents several times, but at some 789 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: point would that ever have an appeal to you? I've 790 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: actually runs the president once, so alright, several different primaries, 791 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 1: several different primaries. You were you were a candidate force 792 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,280 Speaker 1: so ib but would you would it have any appeal 793 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,799 Speaker 1: to you to ever be on the Supreme Court? You 794 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: know it curiously, it does not UM. And this is 795 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: one of the things I actually talk about it at 796 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: some length and in in my book One Vote Away 797 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: is that for all three of the Supreme Court vacancies 798 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: that happened UH in the last four years, President Trump 799 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,360 Speaker 1: had very serious conversations with me about whether I wanted 800 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,439 Speaker 1: to go to the Court, and he put me on 801 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: the list of potential justices he would appoint. And what 802 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,799 Speaker 1: I told him each time is I didn't want the job. 803 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: That that that it was fine if he wanted to 804 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: put me on the list, but I wouldn't wouldn't accept 805 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: the job, and I didn't want it. UM. I think 806 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: a judge's responsibility is to stay out of political fights 807 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: and policy fights. If I were ever a judge, I 808 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,840 Speaker 1: do that. I don't want to stay out of political 809 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 1: policy fights. I want to be right in the middle 810 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: of them. And the right place to do that is 811 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 1: the politically elected branches. It's the US Senate. It is 812 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: that under our constitution is where we should resolve these issues. 813 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz, I appreciate it, look forward to talking to 814 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: you again sometime soon, and encourage people to to check 815 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: out your podcast as well as that most recent book 816 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: awesome appreciate in it. That is Ted Cruz. I am 817 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: Clay Travis. This has been the Wins and Lost his podcast. 818 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: Go download all of them check them out. I hope 819 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: you enjoyed our conversation. We'll be back soon. Thanks for 820 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: listening again. Wins and Lost his podcast