1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: So I hear Toronto has been a good place to 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: buy a house? Have I heard that correctly? You're not wrong, Dan, 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: Toronto home prices jumped about in the twelve months through March, 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: and that's the best performing major real estate market in 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: the world. Excellent. Where do I sign up? Not so fast? 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: It looks like the party may actually be coming to 7 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: an end. Welcome to Benchmark. I'm Chris Fournier, an editor 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,319 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg and I covered the Canadian economy and I'm 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: catching me Triva. I cover the housing market for Bloomberg 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: News based here in Toronto. Our mission today explained to 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: my boss Dan Moss, how and why Toronto's property market 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: got so red hot in the first place, why it's 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,279 Speaker 1: one of the main Canadian economic drivers, and why it's 14 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: showing signs of cooling off. Finally, and here I was 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: ready to give up on New York and move north, 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: and you're telling me stop White is this is why 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: Canada's Central inc raised interest rates. That was definitely part 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: of it. The Central Bank did raise rates this week. 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: It was the first time in seven years. Wow, that 20 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: really can't be good for Toronto housing. This is a 21 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: good time to bring in Phil Soaper. He's Canada's the 22 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: residential real estate guy and he's joining us from Toronto. 23 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: He's a head of a real page. It's Canada's largest brokerage, 24 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: part of Brookfield Real Estate Services. He speaks regularly to 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: many of his firm sixteen thousand brokers. You can kind 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: of saying he had his ear took around. Hi. Hi, 27 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: Great to be here, Kenny, Phil, will you glued to 28 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: the TV watching Central Bank Governor Stephen Pouloza's press conference? 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: How bad was it for you? It was completely expected 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: in economic terms, it might have been the most to 31 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: do about nothing that I've seen in some time. I 32 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: believe some ninety percent of US UH series forecasters in 33 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: the country had built it into our models already, so 34 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: we expected it and the governor delivered. From your point 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: of view, Phil, what is the effect going to be 36 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: on Toronto housing market? Do you see it offering a 37 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: big slowdown or is it going to be just a 38 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: blip any increase in the cost of housing. Is it's 39 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: going to act as a drag somewhat of a drag, 40 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: So people don't buy homes based on their sticker price. 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: We report homes based on their sticker price that the 42 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: asking price of the selling price, but they really they 43 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: buy them based on monthly payments and an increase in 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: the cost of money bumps that up. We gotta remember 45 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about twenty five basis points here off an 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: emergency low monetary policy level of point five, so we're 47 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: really moving off life support into just very very low 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: interest rates. The other thing, and I maybe a bit 49 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: of a contrarian here, I believe there might be a 50 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: silver lining and consumer confidence that people that look at 51 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: it from a technical standpoint, including my own staff, may 52 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: not see. We have seen forecasts for interest rate bumps 53 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: in each of the last four years, if you looked 54 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: at any of the major Canadian banks or ourselves, when 55 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: we predict what's happening during the year, in each of 56 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: the last four years, we said and in the fourth 57 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: quarter interest rates to rise or the second half. People Canadians, 58 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: consumers have been wondering why this anticipated event has not happened, 59 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: and they have been told that it's because we're catering 60 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: on the brink of recession, or oil prices are going 61 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: to take down the Canadian economy, or one or another 62 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: doomsday scenario, and they believe perhaps that the governor of 63 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: the Bank Canada has inside knowledge that they don't have, 64 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: and it's been waning on them. And this this move off, 65 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: as I called them earlier, emergency low interest rates to 66 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: something just very very low. I believe for many people 67 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: will come as a relief. And Philly, you said, basis points, 68 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: isn't that much which integrant scheme of things? It's not. 69 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: But what about all the other moves that the government, 70 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: the regulator, even the province here in Ontario have made 71 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: recently and conjoined with the increase. Are you concerned that 72 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: it might slow the market down too much? Well, it's 73 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: a good question, and you're right. All of these things 74 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: are additive. But I group the major influences to the 75 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: Canadian or any real estate market for that matter, around 76 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: the world into two two major buckets, and then there's 77 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: the minor things. The major buckets are affordability and the economy. 78 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: The minor things are government intervention, the flow of foreign 79 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: capital into markets. These can can be tweaks to the 80 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: housing market overall, but they can't trump the base affordability 81 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: question or uh the strength of the underlying economy and 82 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: employment figures. Let's take a step back here, How did 83 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,239 Speaker 1: Canada get to be so hot? Did Brooklyn just reach 84 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: over the border or is there something unique going on here? 85 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: It's it is a good question. And and certainly in 86 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen and seventeen, the rate of home 87 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: price appreciation in two of our cities, and it has 88 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: been constrained to Vancouver in Toronto. The rest of the market, 89 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: if we can talk about, if you'd like, very very 90 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: different trajectory, has been rising at a rate faster than 91 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: other major cities in the world. You know, similar rates 92 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: of increase in Sydney and Melbourne, but but well above 93 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: what you find in Europe and the United States. Still though, 94 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: if you place Toronto and Vancouver on a list of 95 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: global cities and compare the cost of accommodation of housing 96 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: two incomes, we're in the bottom quartile. So in a way, 97 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,679 Speaker 1: you know, in in Toronto, for example, where home prices 98 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 1: are the medium home prices, it's just over eight hundred 99 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in the latest Roller Page house price composite. 100 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: In US dollar terms, that's about six hundred thousand dollars, 101 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: and it's it's much cheaper than you'd find in London, 102 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: New York, San Francisco, Shanghai, Mumbai. It's relatively affordable housing 103 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: and there is a lot to be optimistic about In Canada. 104 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: We've moved into the first place among the O E 105 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: c D countries in the world that developed economies in 106 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: terms of population growth, inching past Australia. We don't seem 107 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: to have the same kind of challenges that America is 108 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: dealing right now on a social and immigration basis, and 109 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 1: it's a very important part of our economic growth future 110 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: and by extension to housing. So there are reasons why 111 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: our two biggest cities have been attractive as a place 112 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: to live, and part of it, particularly in Toronto's cases, 113 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: in relative terms, it's not that expensive. Now. When you 114 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: mentioned Toronto, Vancouver, Sydney and Melbourne in one breath, it 115 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: makes me want to ask about foreign buying. But we're 116 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: going to come back to that in a second after 117 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: this break. Phil you mentioned Sydney, Melbourne, Vancouver, Toronto. In 118 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: Sydney and Melbourne, the increase in house prices has been 119 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: largely attributable to purchases by foreigners, specifically folks of Chinese 120 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: and Indian descent. It's even become a political issue can 121 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: you talk about that, is that having any ramifications on 122 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: the political front, huge ramifications In a way, you could 123 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: even draw some lines between the debate over foreign investment 124 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: in our housing markets to the defeat of the provincial 125 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: government in British Columbia. It's certainly the way the file 126 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: was handled didn't didn't hurt the fact that the government 127 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: fell the first time that the Liberal party in in 128 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:30,559 Speaker 1: that province hasn't occupied the government buildings for well sixteen years. 129 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: I think so very very much a political issue in 130 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: absolute terms, though as I said earlier, it's it's it's 131 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: a relative minor part of what's mathematically driving the market forward. 132 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: In both the Vancouver, Greater Vancouver and Greater Toronto markets, 133 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: the number of transactions attributable to foreign investors falls somewhere 134 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: around five. The concentration gets much higher in certain sub 135 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: communities broad neighborhoods. For example, in Richmond, British Columbia, before 136 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: the government made their moves to introduce new taxes on 137 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: foreign investment in housing, the concentration was eighteen percent eight 138 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: percent of the transactions. It's not as great an issue 139 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: in Toronto, the most densely or the highest market share 140 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: for for transactions was interestingly enough, another Richmond Richmond Hill, Ontario, 141 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:40,479 Speaker 1: and there in its neighboring community at Markham, the concentration 142 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: or market share that went to foreign investors was nine percent, 143 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: or about half the rate that we saw in Vancouver. 144 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: So was it a political issue? Absolutely? Is it behind 145 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: the rapid escalation in home prices that we saw in 146 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,359 Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen sixteen in Vancouver or sixteen seventeen 147 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: in Toronto. I think it's only part of the question, 148 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: and a small part. We've had groups including the I 149 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: m F and the World Bank, the O E c 150 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: D I believe also, and even our own bank ac 151 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: Canada here saying that the you know, the escalation and 152 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: home prices in markets like Toronto and Vancouver represents a 153 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: real risk to financial stability. Um do you agree with 154 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: that assessment? I do, actually, And if we went back 155 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: to the first quarter, in the conversation I have with Cadio, 156 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: I referred to the Toronto market as the least healthy 157 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: market in Canada. Remember, Vancouver has already been in a 158 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: market correction for a full year now, so it's while 159 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: not old news, it's it's certainly two thousand and sixteen news. 160 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: But Toronto in the first half of the year, home 161 00:10:53,040 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: prices were irrational. There was no underlying linked to economic 162 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: and fundamentals and in particular the rise in in population 163 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: and incomes. So the fact that we are now on 164 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: well it's underway. We have a correction underway in Toronto, 165 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: and that there is these other elements so we've talked 166 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: about on the call, a bump in the cost of money, UM, 167 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: taxes on foreign investments, and and stricter regulations around getting 168 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: mortgage insurance. These things will all help a market that 169 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: was unhealthy. And I believe if if if you look 170 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: at our forecast for the full year two thousand and seventeen, 171 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,359 Speaker 1: you'll see a significant drop in the rate of appreciation 172 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: by year end. And is just dying to ask a 173 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: question about Warren Buffett, I am thank you. Um. What 174 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: does Warren Buffett see in Canada? It makes him so confident, 175 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: you think, Phil that he invested in Home Capital Group, 176 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: which is with was once Canada's largest alternative lender. Demographically 177 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: the fastest growing advanced economy in the world, so we're 178 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: going to have more people that can buy homes. We 179 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: have a very stable financial system, with with very low 180 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: default rate on mortgages, lower than they were before the 181 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: financial crisis. The the amount of equity Canadians have in 182 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: their homes is at an all time high around on average, 183 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 1: there's a lot to like about Canada and by extension, 184 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: the Canadian housing market. So I'm trying to decide, phil 185 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: as I listened to you, whether I've missed out or not. 186 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: In other words, if we're talking about it on this 187 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: show and it's making national headlines, has the trend already happened? 188 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: If I was looking for a city to invest in 189 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: for capital appreciation right now in the country of Canada, 190 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: it wouldn't Toronto. The reason that so many people are 191 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: buying homes in Toronto is because it's where people are 192 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: moving to work. It is on an economic upswing of 193 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: well really quite amazing proportions and spreading to other cities 194 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: in southern Ontario are largest province, So they're buying homes 195 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: because they need a place to live. As an investor, 196 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: the two best cities to throw your money on the 197 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: table in hope for medium term gains would be Montreal 198 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: and Calgary. Both have just begun an expansionary cycle and 199 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: they're dramatically more affordable than Vancouver or Toronto. Half Montreal 200 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: and Calgary prices are half what they are in uh Toronto, 201 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: and Calgary was recently right the fifth most liberabal city 202 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: in the world, Toronto for Vancouver third. So these Calgary, 203 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: is that a great deal? And we're seeing twice the 204 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: price appreciation we had last years, So this is a 205 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: bounce back from the most recent oil crisis. Doesn't sound 206 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: like I can afford to be your next door neighbor 207 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: anytime soon, but we appreciate you joining us. So I'm 208 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: still trying to figure out have I missed out or 209 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: can I still get in? No? I mean I think 210 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: if anything, from this conversation, we've learned that you could 211 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: still have a shot. We've got interest rates going up, 212 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: We've got regulations coming into force. It means that a 213 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: lot of people are reading on the sidelines to see 214 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: what happens next. Prices are cooling off, so it could 215 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: be a good chance for you to jump in. And 216 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: what about you, Chris, how about a domestic move that 217 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: kind of This decision this week to lift interest rates 218 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: is a positive sign that the Canadian economy is is 219 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: really doing well and it's something that we've been seeing 220 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: in data from you know, from the job's reports and 221 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: uh and GDP reports, and so the bank move is 222 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: kind of the last piece of that development. And the 223 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: Bank was very clear today about the fact that, yes, 224 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: the higher interest rates may make it more difficult for 225 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: some for some people who are trying to buy a home. 226 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: At the same time, it's a reflection of the fact 227 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: that the economy is doing better. So it's kind of 228 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: balanced up by the by the fact that you'll have 229 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: stronger jobs growth than people will be able to afford 230 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: theoretically the higher rates. And I'm still trying to figure 231 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: out what this means for the United States and the 232 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: rest of the world. I find myself wondering given interest 233 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: rates are still relatively speaking quite close to historical those 234 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: stocks are relatively speaking close to historical highs. Maybe there's 235 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: just this global chase for yield an asset appreciation, and 236 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: maybe that's all this is. That means they're probably going 237 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: to see a lot more foreign investors in Canada and 238 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: particularly in Vancouver and Toronto. Benchmark will be back next 239 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: week and until then you can find us on the 240 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal Bloomberg dot com our Bloomberg app, as well 241 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: as on Apple Podcasts, pocket Cast, and Stitcher. While you're there, 242 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: take a minute to rate and review the show so 243 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: more listeners can find us and do let us know 244 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: what you thought of the show, even if you can't 245 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: afford Toronto anymore. You can follow me on Twitter at 246 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: Moss Underscore, Echo, Chris at, Carter at, Katia d m I, 247 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: and our guest phil Is at Bill Soper on Twitter, 248 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: Facebook and LinkedIn. Benchmark is produced by Sarah Patterson. Head 249 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg podcast is Alec McCabe. Drum Roll came back 250 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: from his honeymoon in the Great Nation of Canada. Thanks 251 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: for listening. We'll see you next time and I'm going 252 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: to talk real estate with Alec