WEBVTT - DHS Purchasing Electric Shock Gloves For ICE Agents To Subdue Suspects 

0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, August twelfth, and I guess

0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:10.639
<v Speaker 1>it's better to be shocked by an ICE agent than

0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:14.160
<v Speaker 1>to be shot by an ICE agent. And with that,

0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:16.560
<v Speaker 1>welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Will Robes.

0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Put some gloves on and use less deadly I guess

0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.799
<v Speaker 1>methods in dealing with the public.

0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:30.080
<v Speaker 2>And yes, that is what proponents say. Is the good

0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.280
<v Speaker 2>thing about this headline. That is a little shocking to

0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.800
<v Speaker 2>use a bad pun, but yes, we are now learning

0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.159
<v Speaker 2>that the Department of Homeland Security is planning to spend

0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:47.279
<v Speaker 2>up to twenty million dollars to purchase gloves. And I

0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:52.880
<v Speaker 2>say gloves because it's actually an acronym glov love. Yes,

0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:59.240
<v Speaker 2>it stands for generated low output voltage emitter. And what

0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:04.600
<v Speaker 2>these gloves would do is deliver painful electric shocks to

0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.160
<v Speaker 2>subdue a suspect.

0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Basically, you just said at the top that this is

0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.440
<v Speaker 1>a non deadly method. When I said that, you said yes,

0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.200
<v Speaker 1>So that's what proponents point to as if there might

0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:18.440
<v Speaker 1>be opponents as well.

0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Yes, because there is a lot of distrust about giving

0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:27.160
<v Speaker 2>any sort of weapon or tool that could induce pain

0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:28.520
<v Speaker 2>to ICE agents.

0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.480
<v Speaker 1>But it's non non lethal. It's not everybody would celebrate

0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:32.800
<v Speaker 1>that they're non lethal.

0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.440
<v Speaker 2>There are some people who these gloves should not be

0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:41.119
<v Speaker 2>used on. And look, you can think about someone who

0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:48.040
<v Speaker 2>is a child, someone who is perhaps disabled, elderly, a

0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.720
<v Speaker 2>pregnant woman. There are plenty of people who they are

0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:57.240
<v Speaker 2>concerned this would not work well on. But yes, so

0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.880
<v Speaker 2>there are plenty of folks speaking out against it.

0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.040
<v Speaker 3>But this is kind of crazy.

0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.800
<v Speaker 2>It's almost like a shop collar that you would put

0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.520
<v Speaker 2>on a dog, but you now have it in the hands,

0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.240
<v Speaker 2>literally on the hands of ICE agents. And look, if

0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.920
<v Speaker 2>this all goes through the way we're expecting it to,

0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:20.280
<v Speaker 2>they would be in use by ICE agents by March

0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.720
<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty seven. And by the way, these are

0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:28.680
<v Speaker 2>used already in jails and at police departments around the country.

0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.200
<v Speaker 2>So these are in use, they are being manufactured, and

0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.080
<v Speaker 2>they have been effective according to people who know about

0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:36.720
<v Speaker 2>the technology.

0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.200
<v Speaker 1>You said jails and what just then and police departments.

0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.280
<v Speaker 1>I did. I don't know if I didn't get a

0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.960
<v Speaker 1>sense in reading about that they're a part of necessarily

0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.720
<v Speaker 1>just daily use. They're like a special tool necessarily to

0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.960
<v Speaker 1>maybe control bigger crowds and whatnot. That's why it makes

0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:53.720
<v Speaker 1>sense of a jail.

0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes, absolutely it does. And look so here's how they work.

0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.320
<v Speaker 2>They and if you look at them, you can you

0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.720
<v Speaker 2>can look at the pictures online. They look like kind

0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.799
<v Speaker 2>of just war gloves, like if you were gonna be.

0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.720
<v Speaker 1>They can look like winter gloves. They look like.

0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.680
<v Speaker 2>Construction gloves like if you're handling, if you're chopping wood

0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:12.040
<v Speaker 2>and you want to bring the wood in, you don't

0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:12.280
<v Speaker 2>want to.

0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:13.959
<v Speaker 3>Get a splinter. So yeah, they're thick.

0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.200
<v Speaker 2>They're thicker gloves, but they can also function as normal

0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.400
<v Speaker 2>patrol gloves. They don't shock everything you touch. You actually

0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:25.040
<v Speaker 2>have a switch on the glove that is activated and

0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.200
<v Speaker 2>it activates the electrical modes, so they don't they don't

0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.080
<v Speaker 2>shock everything. You actually have to turn them on basically

0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.440
<v Speaker 2>for the electrical shock situation to take.

0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:36.320
<v Speaker 1>This is where I got a little concern because they

0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.720
<v Speaker 1>also have a standby mode that you can put it in,

0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.560
<v Speaker 1>so you have to kind of hold the button down

0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:42.640
<v Speaker 1>the one I saw like for a second and it starts.

0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:44.600
<v Speaker 1>You can do a tap and it just sits there

0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of flashes and it's in standby. You can imagine roads,

0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:51.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, mistakes could be made. You get the wrong mode,

0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:53.600
<v Speaker 1>how many. Hell, how many deadly shootings have we seen?

0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:55.560
<v Speaker 1>And the officer says, I thought I was reaching for

0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.080
<v Speaker 1>my taser, and I was right, and I reach for

0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.520
<v Speaker 1>my gun. So you got to keep in track of

0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.080
<v Speaker 1>is it in standby that I turn it on? Which one?

0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, even going to shake a hand, touching a

0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.000
<v Speaker 1>fellow officer, you could see some mishaps hand.

0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes, absolutely, so, yes, there are a lot of concerns

0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.080
<v Speaker 2>being raised right now. But once you do switch it

0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.480
<v Speaker 2>onto the electrical mode, in order for it to be effective,

0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:23.560
<v Speaker 2>you actually have to touch someone's skin directly. And look,

0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.240
<v Speaker 2>this is what the manufacturer says. They say that if

0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.880
<v Speaker 2>you use these the way they're intended to be used,

0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.480
<v Speaker 2>it will allow an officer to gain compliance in less

0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.440
<v Speaker 2>than three seconds. Yes, so they say it feels like

0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.839
<v Speaker 2>a beasting, but it literally is shocking.

0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.680
<v Speaker 3>So basically, anyone who's fighting.

0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Or resisting arrest or trying to get away, when you

0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:46.960
<v Speaker 2>have this glove laid on your skin and you get

0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.480
<v Speaker 2>shocked and you stop, like you stop in your tracks,

0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:52.480
<v Speaker 2>it literally stops.

0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.120
<v Speaker 3>Someone from that fight and flight mode.

0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:59.799
<v Speaker 2>And so they say it's very helpful in removing uncooperative

0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:05.120
<v Speaker 2>suspects from cars, from homes, from detention facilities, and that

0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:09.280
<v Speaker 2>is what ICE agents have been doing the past.

0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Several years, and looking for compliance to where they're not

0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:16.279
<v Speaker 1>fighting with someone and weapons aren't pulled and bullets aren't fired.

0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, well, I'm just non familiar with how much

0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.440
<v Speaker 1>these have been used and how effective they are considered to.

0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Be exactly Well, they say they are very effective in compliance. Now,

0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.560
<v Speaker 2>I thought this was interesting. This one concerned me a

0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:37.240
<v Speaker 2>little bit. The manufacturer, what are they liked? Their name, Oh,

0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:42.039
<v Speaker 2>Compliant Technologies LLC. They're based out of Lexington, Kentucky, so

0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.719
<v Speaker 2>it's an American based company. But they warn that the

0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.880
<v Speaker 2>device should not be used as punishment, and I think

0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.359
<v Speaker 2>that's really interesting. They say, don't use these gloves to

0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:57.600
<v Speaker 2>punish someone, especially if they're exhibiting verbal defiance or belligerence.

0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:02.320
<v Speaker 2>It should be only used as a means to secure

0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.599
<v Speaker 2>this individual, to get this individual into custody, to get

0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:11.840
<v Speaker 2>them into a compliant position. It's not to punish someone

0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.400
<v Speaker 2>because you don't like what they just said to you

0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:15.880
<v Speaker 2>or what they just did to you.

0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.200
<v Speaker 1>As an officer, of course, they're going to train them

0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.120
<v Speaker 1>fully on this before they send them out with the gloves.

0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:21.800
<v Speaker 1>This is not going to be a problem. We'd say,

0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.000
<v Speaker 1>next March, next mark, the got plenty of time to

0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:26.640
<v Speaker 1>get Bill, get everybody compliant.

0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and so look, the proponents say, as we've been

0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.159
<v Speaker 2>talking about, and this makes perfect sense.

0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.400
<v Speaker 3>And this is why I'm I'm interested.

0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm open to this idea because yes, it's non lethal

0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:42.160
<v Speaker 2>and very unlikely to cause injuries. And to your point

0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.799
<v Speaker 2>about the training, they say, in order for any officer

0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.760
<v Speaker 2>to be using these gloves, they have to complete a

0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.719
<v Speaker 2>course and then be re certified every two years in

0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.640
<v Speaker 2>order to be able to use and handle these gloves.

0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.160
<v Speaker 1>How any idea how many credit hours I have to

0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:00.000
<v Speaker 1>get through for the sort of.

0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:02.640
<v Speaker 3>Not sure about one day course?

0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:04.039
<v Speaker 1>Is it months of training?

0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Didn't say how long the course would take, but that

0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:08.240
<v Speaker 2>every officer has.

0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:09.360
<v Speaker 3>To complete it.

0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.840
<v Speaker 2>And look, I didn't even know there was an institute

0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.880
<v Speaker 2>for the Prevention of in custody deaths, but that would

0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:18.760
<v Speaker 2>make sense that they're on board. They say, if the

0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.240
<v Speaker 2>officer is getting any type of resistance from the person,

0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.000
<v Speaker 2>this is an effective tool. And look, when you think

0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.240
<v Speaker 2>about what the alternative is and what the alternative alternative

0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:30.640
<v Speaker 2>has been in some cases, it appears is to fire

0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:35.360
<v Speaker 2>is to shoot. And we've been talking about this ever since,

0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.920
<v Speaker 2>especially this past January with the deaths of Alex Preddi

0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:43.080
<v Speaker 2>and Renee Good. Why do they have to use lethal force?

0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Why do they have to shoot bullets at someone? Yes,

0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.240
<v Speaker 2>we know they've talked about weaponizing vehicles and all of that,

0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:53.640
<v Speaker 2>but this would be potentially an alternative.

0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Are they going to take the guns from them? Obviously

0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:57.800
<v Speaker 1>not right.

0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Obviously not no, But if you can think about an

0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.920
<v Speaker 2>officer having and yes, I know they have tasers, but

0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:10.480
<v Speaker 2>having these gloves, if you know you're going to extract

0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.560
<v Speaker 2>someone to go get someone from a home, from a car,

0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.960
<v Speaker 2>if you go on with these gloves, you're hopefully less

0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.200
<v Speaker 2>likely going to reach for your gun because you've got

0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.480
<v Speaker 2>a way to subdue this person before actually reaching for

0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:25.280
<v Speaker 2>lethal force.

0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.720
<v Speaker 2>They also say that it's an advantage for and I'm

0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.480
<v Speaker 2>imagining they're talking about women here and older cops, but

0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.320
<v Speaker 2>they say it's an advantage for smaller, weaker or older

0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.480
<v Speaker 2>officers because it results in faster takedowns and shorter confrontations.

0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.240
<v Speaker 2>If you think about it, you've got a smaller disadvantage. Yes,

0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.760
<v Speaker 2>And so now if you've got a suspect or somebody

0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.199
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to subdue or to take into custody, and

0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:51.800
<v Speaker 2>they're much larger than you. They may feel much more

0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:56.160
<v Speaker 2>capable of fighting back and resisting arrest. And if you've

0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.000
<v Speaker 2>got these gloves on, you've got the advantage regardless of

0:08:59.040 --> 0:08:59.560
<v Speaker 2>your size.

0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Is amazing. I'm actually looking at a video here of

0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.000
<v Speaker 1>a local news anchor who allowed this thing to be

0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:12.240
<v Speaker 1>done on what and he crumbled. He completely crumbled to

0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.000
<v Speaker 1>the floor. He couldn't deal. So to your point, it

0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.280
<v Speaker 1>was just a natural reaction that he had, and his

0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.360
<v Speaker 1>natural reaction to it was to crumble to the ground.

0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to show this to you in your face,

0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.560
<v Speaker 1>which you react to it. Here you're seeing this for

0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:27.960
<v Speaker 1>the first time. But this shock glove here, he is

0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.480
<v Speaker 1>some brave local guy in the studio robes. You could

0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.640
<v Speaker 1>tell when it comes on because as soon as he oh,

0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.000
<v Speaker 1>he's not done, he's like, he's on the ground.

0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness. And you've got a woman, a female

0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:41.120
<v Speaker 2>police officer.

0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:43.600
<v Speaker 1>Who is what half a foot shorter than he is,

0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.040
<v Speaker 1>and just took him down no problem.

0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.120
<v Speaker 2>And now they're showing like there is no visible injury.

0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.080
<v Speaker 2>But it was shocking to this system.

0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Enough, he's still smiling, functioning, talking afterwards, and he's on

0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:57.920
<v Speaker 1>live TV doing it. So to your point, Robes, you

0:09:58.000 --> 0:09:59.960
<v Speaker 1>just need a minute to get advantage.

0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.000
<v Speaker 2>And actually seeing that video it makes it seem not

0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.960
<v Speaker 2>as scary as it sounds. But look, you've got civil

0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:14.040
<v Speaker 2>rights advocates who are deeply alarmed, highly concerned, whatever verbaic

0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.120
<v Speaker 2>you want to use. But the ACLU put out this statement,

0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.760
<v Speaker 2>they said ICE spent the last year showing this country

0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.559
<v Speaker 2>they are too quick to use force. Now they will

0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.920
<v Speaker 2>be able to deploy electric shocks with the slight push

0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.520
<v Speaker 2>of a button that maybe nobody else can see them do.

0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Introducing gloves that can so easily be used to deliver

0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:37.000
<v Speaker 2>terrible pain and encounters, it's a recipe for harm to

0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:37.640
<v Speaker 2>the public.

0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's I get it. It's I don't know how

0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.440
<v Speaker 1>where is the balance roads What should everybody should they

0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.679
<v Speaker 1>not have? I mean they got billy clubs, they have tasers,

0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:54.560
<v Speaker 1>they have non lethal forms right already. This is another one.

0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.440
<v Speaker 1>So why I guess it's because it's so easy to use.

0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.559
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And look, you even talked about how police are officers.

0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes we've been walking behind police offers in New York City,

0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.920
<v Speaker 2>they're everywhere, Thank goodness, we appreciate them. But you do

0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:09.600
<v Speaker 2>see the taser on one side and the gun on

0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.440
<v Speaker 2>the other, and when you're walking, you're thinking how easy

0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:18.080
<v Speaker 2>it would be to accidentally in an adrenaline rushed, frightening

0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:22.280
<v Speaker 2>situation where everyone's heart is racing, where you might grab

0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:23.000
<v Speaker 2>or reach for.

0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:24.640
<v Speaker 3>The wrong weapon.

0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.640
<v Speaker 2>This would be pretty obvious. You've got these gloves on,

0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.640
<v Speaker 2>You're going in with the intent. If anything goes wrong,

0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.200
<v Speaker 2>all I have to do is electric shock this person

0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.840
<v Speaker 2>and boom, I can get the handcuffs on, no problem.

0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.199
<v Speaker 3>No one's injured, certainly, no one's dead.

0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.080
<v Speaker 1>I like, at the end of it, how these work

0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.319
<v Speaker 1>because which one wasn't in particular? Was it alex pretty

0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.120
<v Speaker 1>where there was a scuffle on the ground. Yeah, so

0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.800
<v Speaker 1>I see some of these scuffles. Everybody's got charged gloves

0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.640
<v Speaker 1>on in there, who's touching whom? And it just seems

0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:57.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Maybe they'll know how to do and

0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.280
<v Speaker 1>how to handle it. But also, robes, what are the

0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.520
<v Speaker 1>criminals going to start doing on the streets. You don't

0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.920
<v Speaker 1>think they're not gonna They're gonna get word out to

0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.640
<v Speaker 1>everybody out there protesting. Make sure you wear full long

0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:13.160
<v Speaker 1>sleeves and pants, put gloves on, a gator around your neck. Right,

0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:14.880
<v Speaker 1>you're only giving them what a little piece of your

0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.360
<v Speaker 1>face to try to touch, to try, and then you're

0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:20.520
<v Speaker 1>gonna say they slaps you roades. I mean, okay, non deadly.

0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm all about I just love to see how this works.

0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.000
<v Speaker 1>And you can you can feel the lawsuits coming. The

0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:28.800
<v Speaker 1>other thing. People are gonna go out there just in

0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.640
<v Speaker 1>their tidy whities and a tank top and say come

0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:36.680
<v Speaker 1>touch me and taunt them rope. I don't know how well.

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:37.120
<v Speaker 3>You can see.

0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, obviously there are there are some some things they'll

0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.439
<v Speaker 2>have to figure out, but maybe they'll all be taken

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.640
<v Speaker 2>care of in training and they'll have a mode of operation,

0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.600
<v Speaker 2>they'll know the rules of engagement and everything will be fine.

0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.439
<v Speaker 1>Yes, after they take their training course, of.

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.160
<v Speaker 3>Course, and then they have to re up it every

0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.160
<v Speaker 3>two years. Two years, yeah, every.

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Two So learn how to use the gloves again, yes,

0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.000
<v Speaker 1>and roads, I looked at it. You put them on,

0:12:58.440 --> 0:12:58.880
<v Speaker 1>you hit.

0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:03.720
<v Speaker 2>A button, boom, you're ready to go when we come back. Obviously,

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.400
<v Speaker 2>the big benefit, the big bonus and the proponents for

0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.560
<v Speaker 2>these gloves, are arguing that this is absolutely going to

0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.360
<v Speaker 2>prevent these ice related deaths we've been seeing, and we

0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.199
<v Speaker 2>have been seeing quite a few just this year alone.

0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:29.720
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk about that when we come back and welcome

0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.320
<v Speaker 2>back everyone to Amy and TJ. We're talking about gloves

0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 2>generated low output voltage emitters that the Department of Homeland

0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Security purchasing their biggest purchase ever of these things. They've

0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 2>been used in prisons, in some police departments throughout the country,

0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.840
<v Speaker 2>but now it looks like they will be put literally

0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.920
<v Speaker 2>on the hands of ICE agents and they may be

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>out in the streets as soon as this spring.

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:01.760
<v Speaker 3>And look, when you take a look at.

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.000
<v Speaker 2>Some of these ice related deaths that we've been reporting

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 2>on over the last few months, I mean this is significant.

0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.560
<v Speaker 2>NPR reported that since March twenty twenty five, there have

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 2>been thirty instances in which ICE agents have shot civilians

0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 2>slash immigrants.

0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:19.880
<v Speaker 3>Seven of them have been fatal.

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 2>We just had two this last month in July, one

0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 2>in Maine, the other in Texas. And the question is,

0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:32.960
<v Speaker 2>could these gloves have prevented these deaths and some of

0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 2>these shootings?

0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.440
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know, And I say that because I

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:43.400
<v Speaker 1>think about the shooting the woman, Renee Good, Renee Good.

0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean that was a vehicle. Nothing about that one

0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:48.520
<v Speaker 1>would have been different.

0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Right, her window was unrolled, her arm was exposed. Could

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.000
<v Speaker 2>they have come and just I don't know.

0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.480
<v Speaker 1>That whole scene again, if look, it's.

0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 3>Pretty for sure it seems like it would have helped.

0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.040
<v Speaker 1>Again, that was such a wild scene.

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 2>They thought he had a gun. That was such a

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 2>wild He did have a gun, but they thought he

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 2>was holding a gun.

0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.920
<v Speaker 1>And I'm thinking as well, he had on a jacket sleeves.

0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 3>Right in Minneapolis, it was January.

0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking about that. I don't And again, who knows

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.480
<v Speaker 1>bro rogues. If they have a non lethal tool that

0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 1>can be helpful, we should all be applauding it. The

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 1>problem is ICE has a reputation that is documented in

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.240
<v Speaker 1>video that does it necessarily make you feel like there

0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.280
<v Speaker 1>will be responsible with this new tool.

0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 2>And that's the argument from the ACL you several other

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.520
<v Speaker 2>groups and they're saying, Okay, you guys want to buy

0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 2>all of these electric shot gloves, how about purchasing body

0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 2>cams and how about making sure there are body cams

0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 2>on every single ICE agent and that they are rolling

0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 2>and recording because these last two ICE shooting deaths, Wow,

0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.800
<v Speaker 2>turns out none of them had bodycam video available.

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 3>That is part of the problem with the transparency.

0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:07.480
<v Speaker 2>They can claim that these folks use their vehicles as weapons,

0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 2>and that they were using their vehicles as deadly forced

0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 2>and that was the justification for shooting and killing these folks,

0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.560
<v Speaker 2>But the other people in those vehicles who survived have

0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 2>all said, that's not what happened. And unless we actually

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.840
<v Speaker 2>have the footage to show what did happen, and even

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 2>when we do, sometimes we argue about what we're seeing.

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.640
<v Speaker 3>But at least you can make an.

0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Informed decision based on real evidence. And so yes, instead

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.400
<v Speaker 2>of focusing on new tools to harm.

0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 3>People, to shock people, to.

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Inflict pain on people, let's take some of that money

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 2>and some of those resources and ensure that every single

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 2>ICE agent has a operating bodycam that is recording what's

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 2>going on in the streets.

0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.120
<v Speaker 1>So, but this is as far as we see. The

0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>purchase order, at least said is going to be between

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 1>ten and twenty million million dollars. I did you see

0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.440
<v Speaker 1>I tell these things about one hundred bucks. And maybe

0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm wrong, but that's what I initially saw. Maybe they're

0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>using a different version, but we'll see. I don't know

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 1>ropes that these rolled out, and what are we going

0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.720
<v Speaker 1>to get start getting reports of people complaining about being

0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 1>shocked by ice agents?

0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:20.680
<v Speaker 3>Possibly?

0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 2>But then I'm thinking, what if someone has a pacemaker?

0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 2>What if someone there are so many and look against

0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.280
<v Speaker 2>a woman could be pregnant and they don't know it.

0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Could that have an effect on an unborn child? Like,

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.040
<v Speaker 2>there are all sorts of questions that still need to

0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 2>be answered. And look, with the White House insisting and wanting,

0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.200
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize that there's some sort of they want

0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.480
<v Speaker 2>two thousand arrests today, they've made that known. That's kind

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.680
<v Speaker 2>of what's out there. So if you've got this impetus,

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.080
<v Speaker 2>you've got to you've got to arrest folks. Yeah, like

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.400
<v Speaker 2>a quota, this is how many people we want arrested.

0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:54.800
<v Speaker 2>And look, there are all sorts of deaths being reported

0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.800
<v Speaker 2>from folks who are in these detention facilities which are

0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.679
<v Speaker 2>overrun and over I mean, we've got a lot of

0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.800
<v Speaker 2>problems to deal with. And look, I do support any

0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.840
<v Speaker 2>time we can find a way to not use deadly

0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:11.320
<v Speaker 2>forced I think every American would be behind that, And

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate the effort to try and find those ways.

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.080
<v Speaker 2>There are still a lot of other issues with how

0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:22.480
<v Speaker 2>we are targeting, arresting, and detaining people who we say

0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.520
<v Speaker 2>are not in this country legally that might need to

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:26.840
<v Speaker 2>be addressed before this.

0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.840
<v Speaker 3>But look, I guess if it does, and if it.

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Can be proven to have reduced fatal shootings in this country,

0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know who wouldn't be behind that. It's just

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.400
<v Speaker 2>there is no one answer, and it certainly there isn't

0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:41.800
<v Speaker 2>some simple answer, so we.

0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Have to at some point. And I'm sure there's some

0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.359
<v Speaker 1>either members of the law enforcement listening or someone in

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.399
<v Speaker 1>the house maybe is a member of law enforcement of

0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.200
<v Speaker 1>the family who listen to this and say, y'all don't

0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.679
<v Speaker 1>know what we up against and we would love to

0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:58.520
<v Speaker 1>be able to do this. I would love to be

0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.840
<v Speaker 1>able to do this instead of striking someone or having

0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.080
<v Speaker 1>to pull out a club and hit someone, or God

0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.520
<v Speaker 1>for the bid, pull out my gun. Well, there are

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:06.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot of and they should be listened to in

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.359
<v Speaker 1>this conversation as well. There are a bunch of good

0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.120
<v Speaker 1>police officers and good cops and good ice agents who

0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.439
<v Speaker 1>we've interacted with at airports. Absolutely right, the great folks

0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:20.040
<v Speaker 1>out there who would love a and be responsible with

0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.439
<v Speaker 1>using a tool like this. So there's two sides to it,

0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.520
<v Speaker 1>but you can understand also why the public is a

0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:26.320
<v Speaker 1>little skeptical.

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, something to be aware of, and we will follow

0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.920
<v Speaker 2>this development. I believe we're expecting a formal announcement from

0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.840
<v Speaker 2>the Department of Homeland Security about the contract on Friday,

0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.119
<v Speaker 2>at least that's what we're being told from reporting. But

0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.359
<v Speaker 2>this looks like it is happening, and we will see

0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:47.040
<v Speaker 2>if it does more good than harm. And I think

0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:49.600
<v Speaker 2>we'll just have to see what ends up happening this

0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:55.119
<v Speaker 2>spring when these gloves are coming to a city near you.

0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.600
<v Speaker 2>All right, and without everyone, we always appreciate you listening

0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.720
<v Speaker 2>to us. I'm Amy Roboch alongside TJ.

0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Hulk.

0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:01.400
<v Speaker 3>We'll talk soon.