1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: Hey, Ken, did you know that gold is the only 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: currency that's held its value since the dawn of money? 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Well I did, thanks to our friends at Legacy Precious Medals, 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: the most trusted name in gold investing. Investing in gold 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: protects you against inflation and gives you a hedge against 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: stock market volatility. Don't leave your retirement to chance. Call 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: Legacy Precious Medals today at eight six six six nine 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: one two one seven three or download your free Investor's 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: guide now at by Legacy goold dot com. That's by 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: Legacy goold dot com. John and Ken have the day off, 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: so you are stuck with myself and Eric and Ray 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: and we will have a guest host coming up soon 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: as soon as we can get the connection going. It 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: is two h six on a Monday afternoon, juneteenth. Hey Eric, 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: we are we looking over there, still working here trying 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: to get Michael connected right now? So what should we do? 17 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: Let's see what would John and Ken love for us 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: to do? Here? And now I hear a voice on top. 19 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: There's two buttons. There's a small headphone button in a 20 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: large headphone. But if I had an adapter, Hey, Michael, 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: can you hear us? Uh? The HP button islet is 22 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: that Michael? Yeah, it's the coming on over there. Yeah, 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: I know it's it's the Tech in San Francisco. Okay, okay, 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: So while we are waiting for Michael to join us 25 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: and take over the John and Ken show, Michael, can 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: you hear us? Yes? Hello? Hell, there we go. This 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: is fun. You're gonna hear it from John and Ken tomorrow. 28 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: Watch this is Ray Lopez produced. Hey, Ray, you know 29 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: what I think what we should do today is do 30 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: vegan talk with the three of us. I've been trying 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: to do that and I think that they would they 32 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: would really appreciate. Probably not. Hey, Michael, can you hear 33 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: I don't hear anything. He doesn't hear anything? How all right? 34 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: This could be real fun, real, not fun real soon 35 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: all right, we're not going to talk about vegans for 36 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: Can we talk about animals? How about that? No? No, 37 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,399 Speaker 1: we're gonna get We're gonna get Michael Schellenberger on the line. 38 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: And if people don't know who Michael Schellenberger is, you're 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: gonna want to hear now here. Now, Hey, Michael, you're there. 40 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: You can hear it now? Yeah you hear? Oh Michael? 41 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Okay, John and Kenn audience and misses out 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: on vegan talk. H all right, So so Ray, Michael, 43 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: this is Ray Lopez, producer of The John and Ken Show. Okay, 44 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: so I want to introduce Michael Schellenberger as guest host 45 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: of The John and Ken Show today. Um. Michael is 46 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: a fantastic personality. He has a just an all around 47 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: great way of looking at life, looking at at the 48 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: invite im looking at California, looking at how we have 49 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: gone into the problems that we have today here inside 50 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: of California. He's based in northern California, but Michael Schellenberger 51 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: gets it. He knows what he's talking about. And you know, 52 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: the best thing about Michael is he goes on on 53 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: the street. You know, this is what John and can do, 54 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: and this is what we've always done, is we've always 55 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: taken the show to the street. We go and we 56 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: talk to people who are living it, who are doing it, 57 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: who are in the middle of the problem to find 58 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: a solution, Right Michael, that's the idea. Yeah, we welcome, 59 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: absolutely welcome. Thanks for having me, guys, appreciate it. Good. 60 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: You could take it from here. All right, thanks so much. Hey, nice, 61 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: nice to be here. It's again Mike Schellenberger's I'm filling 62 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: it on the John and Ken Show, and we've got 63 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: amazing guests lined up for the next few hours. We're 64 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: going to start with a big story around the world, 65 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: which is the ways that environmentalists are coming back to 66 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: nuclear power. I've invited a very special environmentalist. She's world 67 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: famous now. Her name is Zion Lights. She was a 68 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: radical environmentalist for many years and she changed her mind 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: about nuclear power. I'm not sure if these guys got 70 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: to line up or not, but she you may have 71 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: remembered her. Listeners may remember we had huge protests around 72 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: the world on climate change a couple of years ago. 73 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: People were stopping traffic as they're still doing it. They 74 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: go by the name Extinction Rebellion. And one of those activists, 75 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: Zion Lights, ones our spokespersons, came out as pro nuclear 76 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: power a few years ago and she is part of 77 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: a new movement of nuclear advocates. I am also one 78 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: of those people. In fact, we've got a documentary film 79 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: coming out later this year called Atomic Hope, and we're 80 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: going to hear from the director of that film, Frankie Fenton. 81 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: But people know we're in a huge energy crisis. We're 82 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: in the worst energy crisis that we've been in since 83 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. It's partly caused by Russia's invasion of Ukraine, 84 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: but it's also just because we don't have enough power. 85 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: We shut down a much of power plants and refineries 86 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: over the last few years, partly because of COVID, but 87 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: also because there's a set of folks that say they 88 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: care about the environment, but they really hate civilization and 89 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: they've been shutting down nuclear power plants first and foremost, 90 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: really since the sixties, even though they don't produce any 91 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: air water pollution. There's been a lot of scares about 92 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: nuclear power, but we now know that nuclear is the 93 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: safest way to make reliable electricity. So hopefully we'll be 94 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: able to hear from one of our guests, and she 95 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: is apparently ready, so let's see if we can bring 96 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: her on now, Zion lights, are you there? Well? Hopefully, 97 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: As you can see, we're making a transition from Johnny 98 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: Ken to Mike Schallenberger, and I am seeing it for 99 00:05:55,640 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: Johny Ken today. Zion are you there? Hey? Nice to 100 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: hear your voice. Hey, how are ye good? Good, good 101 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: to be with you. I've just been singing your praises. 102 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: I heard you. Yeah, well welcome. I've been saying that you. 103 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: I got to know you because you were working with 104 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: Extinction Rebellion, which is not as famous in the United 105 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: States but very famous around the world for its radical actions. 106 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: But you change your mind about nuclear power? Can you 107 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: just first establish for everybody you your bona fides? Why 108 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: how long have you been an environmental activist? And what 109 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: led you to change your mind about nuclear um Forever? 110 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: Really since I was a kid, but probably officially when I, 111 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, left time at Action and I got involved 112 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: in lots of green groups, and I was very active 113 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: in Green Peace, in Front of the Earth and all 114 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: the typical kind of organizations. And it took me a 115 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: long time to change my mind because when you're in 116 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: those groups, all you hear is auntieu through ideology, and 117 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: you just sort of, you know, are led to believe 118 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: it by the people around you. But then I developed 119 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: a strong interest in science, and that's where I started 120 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: to change my mind, because I saw there's so much 121 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: evidence in its favor, in nucleius favor, and I couldn't 122 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: understand why the groups I was in was so against 123 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: you know, the key solution basically to the problems that 124 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: they're campaigning against, campaigning, you know, air pollution, campaign against 125 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: climate change. So I kind of took I did try 126 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: to take that opinion back to those groups and found 127 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: that they didn't want to hear it. Essentially at that time, 128 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: I'd say that's changed now. Yeah, me too. Yeah, find 129 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: finding my own organization and just just doing a lot 130 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: of communication around nucleinergy around the world because I think 131 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: it's just as you know, it's desperately needed. Attitudes have 132 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: changed a lot here for sure. I mean you may 133 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: know in California the governor said he is now seriously 134 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: thinking about keeping our last nuclear plant open. I've been 135 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: following the events in Europe. Almost all of Europe, it appears, 136 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: is going to be having power outages, potential blackout the summer. 137 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: What's going on over there? What are you seeing? What 138 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: are people saying? Has the conversation changed around nuclear power 139 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: there as well? Absolutely, yes, very significantly, especially I think 140 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: among kind of young people. But there was a pole 141 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: just you know, a couple of months ago, a Ugov pole, 142 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: which is very very good data here, and it found 143 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: that most people now support actually building new nuclear whereas 144 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: only a year before that, or if you go back 145 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: to kind of twenty twenty, that's the same, the same 146 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: pole asking the same question fan that that was on 147 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: a downward spiral. People just did not front did not 148 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: believe in funding any nuclear energy at all. It was 149 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: all about renewables and that shifted massively in just kind 150 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: of the last year. So very pleased with that, and 151 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 1: also just you know, also in other parts of Europe 152 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: we've seen a huge shift. Like you probably followed this, 153 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,359 Speaker 1: but in Finland the Green Party there come out advocating 154 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: for nuclear. Actually the Green Party here in the UK, 155 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: which is the most anti group aside from green Peace, 156 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: like the most active kind of lobbyists against nuclear, there's 157 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: a Green Party and even there there's a shift happening now. 158 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: They there's a Greens for Nuclear group that commissioned to 159 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: poll quite recently and found that the favor is shifting 160 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: in opinion of nuclear energy even there. So we may 161 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: see what happened in Finland happened here as well. That's amazing. 162 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: It seems like the Germans are going to be the 163 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: last to change. They they are so stubbornly anti nuclear 164 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: For a minute there, it sounded like they were flirting 165 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: with keeping their last three reactors open or maybe even 166 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: restarting the three day closed. I mean, what is up 167 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: with the Germans? And it's just one news that they're 168 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: supporting coal, that putting more money into coal. It's absolutely horrific, 169 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: isn't it. But they're certainly on people's minds now. You know. 170 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: I feel like before people kind of saw Germany as 171 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: a climate leader, and they weren't really looking at emissions, 172 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: and they weren't really thinking about nuclear shutdowns. And now 173 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, everything that's happened lately with Putin's invasion and 174 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: their energy prices soaring and their energy insecurity. Now a 175 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: lot of people are aware of that and they're kind 176 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: of going, oh, did that renewables experiment not work? You know, what, 177 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: what did they do wrong? And what did France do right? 178 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: And it's really good that those conversations are being had. 179 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: They just need to reach the actual Germans. So it's 180 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: so great to catch up with you. Where can people 181 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: find you online? Everywhere? So I'm active on Twitter at 182 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: the on tree, but I also have an organization called 183 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 1: Emergency Reactor and we have a website Emergency reactor dot 184 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: org and we're also on Twitter as emergency React and 185 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: all social media channels. Actually, if you just look for 186 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: Emergency Reactor you can sign up to our mailing list 187 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: and see what we're up to. We hold events around 188 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: the UK and also you know, list on there when 189 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: I'm speaking at conferences and things, so people can keep 190 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: in touch and turn up to events and yeah, help 191 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: to learn to be an advocate if they want to. Well, 192 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: thanks so much, sign you're a big star. I'm so 193 00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: excited to be able to reconnect with you, and I'm 194 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: glad that people are going to be here about you 195 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: in the United States. So let's stay in touch and 196 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: keep finding for nuclear power. Thanks Mike, can I speak 197 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: to you? So we're gonna head to a commercial break. 198 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: This is Mike Schellenberger sitting in for the John and 199 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: Ken Show KF I am six forty. Our next guest 200 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: is Frankie Fenton, and he is going to talk about 201 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: a new movie about pro nuclear environmental activists. Stay with us. Hey, everybody, 202 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: it's Mike Schellenberger and this is KF I am six forty. 203 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: I'm sitting in on the John and Ken Show. I've 204 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: been a frequent guest for them, and I am now 205 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: substituting for them for the rest of the day. We've 206 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: got some really exciting topics coming up. A big story 207 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: around the world is the comeback of a technology that 208 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: a lot of people thought was dead. Nuclear power, the 209 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: bane of the existence of environmentalists in the nineteen sixties. 210 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: It was opposed by California Governor Jerry Brown. Governor Gavin 211 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: Newsom had been planning on shutting down our last nuclear 212 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: power plant, called Diablo Canyon. He just recently announced he's 213 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: going to keep it open, or at least he's going 214 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: to try to keep it opens. A fair amount of 215 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: paperwork he has to do, and a number of people 216 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: that used to be against nuclear power, including myself, have 217 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: been making the case that we really need to keep 218 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: our plants operating. They produce power twenty four hours a day, 219 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: seven days a week. They don't produce airwater pollution. Famous 220 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: for terrible accidents, But when you really get to know 221 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: the technology a little bit better and you know how 222 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: far we've come, you realize that there is there's a 223 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: lot more there, and people realize. So our next guest 224 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: is Frankie Fenton, and he has been working for years 225 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: on a new documentary about environmental activists that change their 226 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: mind about nuclear power and are now in favor of 227 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: the technology. He's calling in live from Ireland. Frankie, are 228 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: you there? I am there, Michael. How are you hey? Great? 229 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: Great to hear your voice. What a treat Michael, you're 230 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: a radio Oh a host? Now? Oh my goodness. Is 231 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: there anything you can apparently become governor? That appears to 232 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: be that appears to be. Yeah, that's that appears to 233 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: be the thing. Bronze medalist, actually I would say bronze 234 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: medalist and the Gubernatorial Olympics in California. I was a 235 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: guest for these guys John and Ken show. Um, this 236 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: is a great show. I can't believe they threw me 237 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: the keys to their car so to speak, and let 238 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: me host. So we're just fully we're fully taking it 239 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: over for a nuclear power. But Frankie, you've got this 240 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: incredible film coming out called Atomic Hope. This is a 241 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: super well produced film. We're gonna actually be able to 242 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: let people listen to just a little clip from it. 243 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: But before we start, tell us who Yeah, it's all 244 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: te up to go, But tell it before we start. 245 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: Tell us, tell us, why did you want to make 246 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: a movie about pro nuclear environmentalists. Oh, well, look, I'm 247 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: coming out of from a from a kind of different 248 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: point of view. I was a filmmaker and I was 249 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: working in London. I wanted to make something big, something 250 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: that would, you know, address some of the big problems 251 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: on the planet. And I was looking at things like 252 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: food and pesticides, and you know, someone handed me a 253 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: little article in Wired magazine and Think in two thousand 254 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: and nine, really long time ago, and it dealt mainly 255 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: with the subject of thorium and using thorium instead of uranium. 256 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: And this was kind of my little gateway into the 257 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: subject matter. It seemed to kind of address some of 258 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: the issues that people had about nuclear power, you know, 259 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: about the waste and proliferation and things like that. So 260 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: that's kind of where it started. I kind of felt, 261 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: oh my god, this needs to be told to people, 262 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: you know, I kind of started my journey. I started 263 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: interviewing different experts, mainly physicists, mainly older white men. That 264 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: was fine, it was it was just trying to get 265 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: to know what the hell was going on about this 266 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: this subject matter and Eventually, what I found was that 267 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: it was quite difficult for me to understand what the 268 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: hell they were talking about. So I started to point 269 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,479 Speaker 1: the camera, I suppose at at activists and science communicators 270 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: and people who were kind of really effective about trying 271 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: to get a very complex issue across to kind of 272 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: a wider audience. And so that's kind that's awesome, That's 273 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: what I've been at. Yeah, Frankie, let's let's do it. 274 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: See if we can. I think the producers have got 275 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: a little quick clip to just to play for folks, 276 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: just give a glimpse of it. Let's see if we 277 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: can go to that. Now we've been broken. This evidence 278 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: represents a very strong case, in my opinion, that the 279 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: greenhouse effect has been detected and it is changing our climate. Now, 280 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: thirty years of climate change, and how has the energy 281 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: balance changed? Sure, no, it hasn't changed at all. Our house. 282 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: It's on a time. But I don't want your hope. 283 00:15:55,160 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to parent. We've had the solution for seventy 284 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: it's called nuclear, the world's largest and most reliable source 285 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: of carbon free power. It's falling out of favor. I'm 286 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: talking about nuclear energy. Well, it shows you that's a 287 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: great little clip from it shows you how much has changed, right. 288 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of us got in this 289 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: because we're worried about climate change. But it seems like 290 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: we're seeing Europe come back to nuclear power. California's coming back, Japan, 291 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: South Korea, everybody but Germany. The Germans are the most 292 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: stubborn people I've ever met. But I mean, now people 293 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: are just want to go back to nuclear to keep 294 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: the lights on. Is that what you're seeing there? What's 295 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: your view? From my point of view? You know, I 296 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: wanted the grindy down the road for me to be 297 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: able to kind of have a real conversation about the 298 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: subject matter. What The one thing that kind of really 299 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: struck me was how little we actually did know about 300 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: nuclear power. We were very influenced by popular culture when 301 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: it came to nuclear power. And when you ended up 302 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: talking to some of the scientists and some of the 303 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, you'd started with the climate scientists, but you know, 304 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: you end up with actual nuclear physicists and kind of 305 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: wondering what are the actual realities behind the things that 306 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: we kind of think of when we think about nuclear power. 307 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: You know, because for me, my favorite show is the 308 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: Simpsons and you know, races, it's green, it's liquid, all 309 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: those kind of things I've heard you point out in 310 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: the past too, but certainly I kind of wanted if 311 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: we scrubed those away and kind of, you know, if 312 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: the regular person kind of got to know what the 313 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,719 Speaker 1: actual dangerous were or what the how the actual safety was, 314 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: and how would that kind of change our opinions about 315 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: how to deal with bigger issues like climate change and 316 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: energy crisis and that. So it's just what we thought 317 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: it was. It's really not what we thought it was. 318 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: Frankie Fenton. Atomic Hope is the movie? When is it 319 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: coming out? So we're just we had a world premier 320 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: at the Hot Talks Film Festival in Toronto there in May, 321 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: so we're on the festival circle. That's bran New So 322 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: it's not at right now, so please pay attention. But 323 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: they can see the trailer. Yeah, people can google and 324 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: yeah you can follow us on Twitter on an Atomic 325 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: Underscore Hope And yeah, thanks for being with us, Frankie, 326 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: thanks for being with us. This is Mike Schallenberger. This 327 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: KF I am six forty. We've got more information about 328 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: the radical reconsideration of nuclear power by the least likely 329 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: people you'd imagine stay with us after the break. You know. 330 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: I got my start in the environmental movement and advocating 331 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: for renewable energy. Made a case to the Obama administration, 332 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: actually Obama campaign team back in two thousand and seven. 333 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: I was a true believer in solar panels, electric cars, 334 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: wind turbines. But then we started runningto all sorts of trouble. 335 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: We discovered something that maybe other people realize before I did, 336 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: that solar panels and wind turbines only work when the 337 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: sunshine the wind isn't blowing, so you have to always 338 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: have some backup power plants. We hear a lot about 339 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: lithium batteries electric cars, but really too expensive. Big new 340 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: report today in the New York Times showing that the 341 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: vast majority of our lithium batteries are electric car batteries 342 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: are being made by brutally mistreated, weaker Muslims in China. 343 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: We knew that this was happening with solar panels. It's 344 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: very serious. These are people who are being forced into labor. 345 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: There's been some big expoisades by BBC. I'm joined now 346 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: by one of the best energy analysts. I know Mark 347 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: Nelson Radiant Energy Fund, and we want to talk a 348 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: little bit about why solar panels and wind turbines really 349 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: aren't cutting it, why we're in a global energy crisis 350 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: despite having spent hundreds of billions dollars on renewables. Mark, 351 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,479 Speaker 1: are you there, Yeah, thanks for having me on. Michael, 352 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: great to have you with me. So big news coming 353 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: out of China from the New York Times today, we 354 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 1: also see we're in a global energy crisis. There's basically 355 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: countries around the world. It's not just California, the United States, 356 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: cross the United States. We see in Germany yesterday announced 357 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: that they were gonna turn their coal fired power plants 358 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: back on. We see Britain, France, Japan, all these countries 359 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: are in the middle of an energy crisis. And yet 360 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: we were told for the last you know, ten twenty 361 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: years that if we just put up enough solar panels 362 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 1: and win turbines, everything would be fine. So what went wrong? 363 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,959 Speaker 1: In your view, Well, Michael, I think we can simplify 364 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: it down to one image I want your listeners to hear, 365 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: and that's if you saw somebody standing on the street 366 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: and they lifted up one foot and said, now I'm 367 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: fifty percent of the way of flying. We would immediately 368 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: know that they're being ridiculous, right, because it's not that 369 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: it's not that they've taken half their weight off the ground, 370 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: it's they put all of their weight on their one 371 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: remaining foot. And if they took one toe at a 372 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: time off the ground, if they get up just on 373 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: the ball of their feet, they still weigh the same, 374 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: They still have absolute dependency on that remaining foot, but 375 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: the pressure becomes extreme. That's really what we're saying. All right, Well, 376 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: so connect some dots here, connect some dots here, I 377 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: mean other words. I think what you're saying is we've 378 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: been talking about nuclear power, but really cold power plants, 379 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: nuclear power plants, gas plants. These are plants that can 380 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: run twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, 381 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: no matter if the sunshine the wind is blowing. Solar 382 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: panels and wind turbines aren't like that. They require the 383 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: weather to cooperate. And so connect that to what you 384 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: were just saying about saying out one foot. Sure, we've 385 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: seen one country out there in the world now get 386 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: more than fifty percent of their electricity from wind and 387 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: solar it's just one country, Denmark. In order to get there, 388 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: the wind sometimes blows to one hundred and fifty percent 389 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: of the needs of the country, and sometimes it blows 390 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: one percent of the need of the country. So on 391 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: ridge though it's a fifty percent, there are times where 392 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: for days in a row, the grid in Denmark would 393 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: shut down if it weren't a tiny country surrounded by 394 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 1: much larger countries that are able to run fossil fuels 395 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: to keep Denmark powered when the wind is off. So 396 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: this is I mean what you're really saying here if 397 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: I'm understanding you, because we've been hearing like so, there's 398 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: been like you hear publicity where they say, I've heard 399 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: in California they say California on Sunday got ninety percent 400 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: of its electricity from renewables, where they'll say Germany got 401 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 1: one hundred percent of electricity from renewables, and then they'll say, well, 402 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: last year Germany got fibruercent of electrics from renewables. And 403 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: you're saying that's pretty misleading because when the weather doesn't cooperate, 404 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: you can be getting zero percent of your electricity from renewables, 405 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: and that is a big problem because it means that 406 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: you really can't ever get rid of your reliable sources 407 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: of power. Do I have that right? Yes, not only 408 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: can you not get rid of them, but now you 409 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: may barely run them in some months, meaning they are 410 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: going to have to have tons of extra money given 411 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: to them to stay alive. Right now, Australia's grid is 412 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: in a major crisis because so much of the operation 413 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: hours got taken from the remaining coal plant that they 414 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: couldn't justify staying in business except the grid didn't work 415 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: without it. I think I'd say, Michael that if somebody 416 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: told you that their heart beat ninety nine percent of 417 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: the year, like their heartbeat was going ninety nine percent 418 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: of the year, everyone would immediately realize that this is 419 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: a situation where the average or even the special day 420 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: is not the one that determines survival. It's the worst days. 421 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: It's the worst moments. You only get the Christmas if 422 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: your heart beats for all of the previous three hundred 423 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: and fifty five days of the year, you don't get 424 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: to skip. You have to have the grid. It's the 425 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: heartbeat of modern society. Yeah, I mean, in other words, 426 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: it's like it's only as strong the chain is only 427 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: as strong as its weakest link. And so what we've 428 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: seen is California had blackouts a couple of years ago 429 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: because when the sun went down and everybody came home 430 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: from work, there wasn't enough soil electricity and it was 431 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: really hot, and everybody across the West was using their 432 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: power plants. We had to shut down. We didn't have 433 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: enough reliable power. Same thing Texas. They put all this 434 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: money in wind, but they didn't have enough natural gas. 435 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: Same problem everywhere in the world. It's almost as though 436 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 1: I think you said this too. It's like the solar 437 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: panels and wind turbines are just always only extra. It's 438 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: like a little something you might throw on top, but 439 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: it's not a reliable source of power. It's not what 440 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: civilization requires. To power civilization. You need nuclear you need coal, 441 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: or you need natural gas. You need something reliable. And 442 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: that seems to me that lesson. Are you seeing people 443 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: finally starting to get this around the world for the 444 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: first time, mark I've you've seen opinions change on this. Yes, 445 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: but then there's the big problem and maybe one of 446 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: the most difficult things I have with renewables. By the 447 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: time they discover it. It's often too late. You can't 448 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: just snap your fingers and print the coal plant. You 449 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: can't just suddenly get a natural gas pipeline. And I 450 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: do love nuclear energy. You cannot clap your hands and 451 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: magic up a nuclear plant. And it doesn't matter how 452 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: fast you can build the renewables. Those are the things 453 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: that have to just supplement the grint that cut into 454 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: the hours of the reliable plant. Think that's great. Thanks 455 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: for being with It's Mark Nelson, radiant Energy Fund folks, 456 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: brilliant analysts. You can find them on Twitter at energy Bants. 457 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: I'm Mike Schellenberger. This is KF I am. I'm sitting 458 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: there for Johnny ken Show. Stick with us. We've got 459 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: more about nuclear power, renewables and the rest. After the break, 460 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: we've still got a little bit more time to discuss 461 00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: the worldwide energy crisis and why renewables have failed miserably, 462 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: leaving a lot of environmentals to rethink nuclear power. I'm 463 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: one of them. I was a big advocate for nuclear 464 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: about twenty twenty five years ago, and realize that sometimes 465 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, as 466 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: shocking as that may sound, and you really need something 467 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: more reliable than that, So I wanted to get on 468 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: this broadcast a really great mind. His name is Emmett Penny, 469 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: and he runs a website called Gridbrief, just those two 470 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: words together, gridbrief dot com. I think it's the single 471 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: best source of information about why energy is such a 472 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: disaster right now, Why Californians are paying more in electricity 473 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: than anybody else in the United States, Why we're facing blackouts, 474 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: why our governor wanted to shut down our last nuclear 475 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: plant but is now reversing course. I think I've got 476 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: them on the line here, Emmett Penny, Are you with us? Hey? Emmett, 477 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: Well to have you been. You've been doggedly covering this 478 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: energy crisis. You know people, I think people are here 479 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: in California. We know we pay too much for electricity. 480 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: We pay second highest gasol, or maybe it's the first, 481 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: the most expensive gasoline, second highest electricity. We got big problems, 482 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: and it's not just in California. I think people are 483 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: starting to wake up to the fact that unreliable, weather 484 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: dependent renewables can't power her a high energy civilization. How 485 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: what's the what's your view? What are you seeing going 486 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: on in the world? Of energy right now. That's important 487 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: for people to pay attention to. Well, first of agger 488 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: is everything you just said about gas and electricity in 489 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: California as part of why I left California. Sorry, guys, 490 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: I know you'll miss me. But I think that one 491 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: of the things that isn't being talked about enough, probably 492 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: because the worst consequences of it are going to come later, 493 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: is the impending food crisis, and food is an energy. 494 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: Don't realize that food and energy are related. I mean, 495 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: I when I was running for governor, I'm you may 496 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: know I'm I'm a bronze medallist in the California Gubernatorial Olympics. 497 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 1: I just I just got defeated at here. But you know, 498 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: I was arguing for desalination and I would talk about 499 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: why we can have abundant water and people didn't know. 500 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: But basically, we can use energy to make fresh water, 501 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: but also the entire food system, making fertilizer, making freshwater, 502 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: powering the tractors. These are all things that require energy, 503 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: so expensive scarce energy threatens our food supply. That sounds 504 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: like that's something that's a drum you've been beating for 505 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: a while. Say more about that. Yeah, So, I started 506 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: to notice last year that as we were seeing the 507 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: energy crisis start to play out in Europe, because that's 508 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: really when it starts. It starts towards the end of 509 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: last year because people burn through all of their stocks 510 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: of backup gas oil, whatever they have covering for the 511 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: wind lull that made it so that wind didn't produce 512 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: anything right, So people just don't have reserves in Europe. 513 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: And towards the end of last year you start to 514 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: see fertilizer production plants start to shut down, and I thought, 515 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: hold on a second, if that's getting expensive, a bunch 516 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: of other things are going to get expensive too, Like 517 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: if we see the price of diesel go up, this 518 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: is going to be a big problem because diesel doesn't 519 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: just go into trucks, which make up most of shipping 520 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: and transit, especially in Europe. It's also what goes into 521 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: the tomatoes we love to eat, because that's part of 522 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: how we get the nitrogenated fertilizer that puts food on 523 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: all of our tables. And I thought, this is going 524 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: to be a big problem, and it's going to be 525 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: related to everything. I started calling it the black cast gate, 526 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: and once the Ukraine situation happened. Things got even worse 527 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: because now there's all sorts of grain being withheld in Ukraine, 528 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: which is the bread basket of the world. So we've 529 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: got a few things going on. I mean it's going 530 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: to be hard for people, especially in less wealthy countries, 531 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: to get the food that they need. Yeah, well, we're 532 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: seeing we see we see shortages of a baby formula here. 533 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: We're going to see famine in poorer countries. But we've 534 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: got inflation that's out of control. Food and energy I've 535 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: been writing about this myself, are really out of control. 536 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: I mean there's a big I think something like half 537 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: of the inflation at least is caused by energy. I 538 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: mean there's a sense in which, you know, the ruling class, 539 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: the elites, they they're really shielded from these price increases. 540 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: They don't really care, they're not really thinking this stuff through. 541 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: They are kind of lost in space. Whereas putin China's 542 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: premier she these guys are much more grounded in practical 543 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: realities than our leaders. Are you seeing people waking up 544 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: to this in the West, Emmet or is it are 545 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: we still asleep? Well? I think people are waking up. 546 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: But you know the problem that you just wake up 547 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: to a big problems. You're still rocky, you know. Yeah, 548 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: Clarence hasn't really set in. And I think part of 549 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: what happens is when you live in a powerful, wealthy 550 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: society like America, is those are two things I love 551 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: about being American. By the way, is that your leaders 552 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: tend to have a really big margin for error and 553 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: energy is a big part of that. You can afford 554 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: to make bad decisions for a long time and the 555 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: bill doesn't come due, but now it's come and due. 556 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, when we see Pete Boudegees 557 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: or whoever walk out and say just buy a tassela 558 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: or whatever, deflating and humiliating for the American people, and 559 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: it's not good policy. But this is past dependency we're 560 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: on here, and so I think with more clarity will 561 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: become more change. Just right now, we're really not there yet. 562 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: I don't think people have really woken up to the situation. 563 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: Well look at these guys, I mean, look at the 564 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: Biden administration. They said, I mean President Biden said we're 565 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: going to end fossil fuels. We're not going to negotiate 566 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: with the fossil fuel companies and then they said, you 567 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: guys are making too much money. And then they said, oh, 568 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: well you got to come to the White House and 569 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: produce more oil and gas. It's complete chaos from the 570 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: top down. Emmett Penny, thanks for joining us. Emmett Penny 571 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: is gridbrief dot com. Check out that newsletters the single 572 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: best source of information. Coming up after the break, we're 573 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: going to talk with one of the world's experts on 574 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: drug addiction and also how to stay healthy and how 575 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: to keep your your friends and family healthy. That's coming 576 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: up after the break. First and update from Deborah Mark 577 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: in the Kifi newsroom. It's never been more important to 578 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: diversify your financial portfolio. Well, that's right. The S ANDP 579 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: is down twenty percent from the last year, and this 580 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: year looks even worse. 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