1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and today 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: we've got a vault episode for you. This one originally 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: published March fifteenth, twenty twenty two. It's part one of 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: our series on Finn McCool. But hey, we should be 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: back with all new content for you starting tomorrow, but 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: for today, let's get right into the Finn McCool. Soaca, 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 9 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is 10 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it is the 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: week of Saint Patrick's Day. So I thought it would 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: be fun to turn our attention to Irish mythology once more. 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: And in this case we're going to be considering the 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: mythic hero Finn McCool, noted warrior, wonder worker. We're going 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: to get into all of that. But I guess what 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: I was especially interested in, what kind of pulled me 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: in initially, was his thumb, the thumb of knowledge, upon 18 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: which he was said to suck, or to at least 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: to place the thumb inside of his mouth in order 20 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: to receive great insight or perhaps even see into the future. Yeah, Rob, 21 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: I was going to ask, so this topic was your idea, 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: and I was wondering, did you come to it thumb 23 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: first or hero first? Was it like, you're reading about 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: Finn McCool and all the legends and then you come 25 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: across this thumb story and you're like, let's talk about that, 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: or were you reading about legends of thumbs I was 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: reading about. I was actually reading about some other mythological 28 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: figures and then I was like, oh, what am I doing. 29 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: It's Saint Patrick's day. Irish mythology is so rich. There's 30 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: got to be something we haven't talked about on the 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: show before. And then I started reading about Finn McCool, 32 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: and when I read about the thumb, which I somehow 33 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: either they had never read about before or forgotten about, 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: was instantly in now. Finn itself is a common Irish 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: hero name for characters of all genders related to finn 36 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: or meaning white or fair. I've read, but refers to 37 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: wisdom rather than skin tone, according to the Encyclopedia of 38 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: Celtic Mythology and Folklore by Patricia Monaghan. Yeah, I was 39 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: reading that Finn is a variant of the Irish name Fun, 40 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: spelled like f io n or f io n, which 41 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: means white or fair, but usually I think referring to 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: hair color. And there are some legends of Finn McCool 43 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: that say he had white hair from an early age, 44 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: possibly due to some kind of magical rapid aging and 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: d aging procedure. Huh, all right, well, I mean it 46 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: would make sense like the association between like white hair 47 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: and age, and age and wisdom, and therefore as someone 48 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: had prematurely white hair, there could perhaps be some air 49 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: of oh, they have the wisdom of an older man 50 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: or an older woman, despite the fact that they are 51 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: otherwise quite young. And speaking of the variant of the 52 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: name Finn versus Fion, I think it's worth saying at 53 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: the beginning that there are two different ways of spelling 54 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 1: the name that are essentially the same character, or slight 55 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: variations on the same character. One is commonly spelled in 56 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: the anglicized version, just like we're saying at Finn McCool, 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: but the other one is spelled more like fion. And 58 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: then the last name is mac cu m h a 59 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: i l or h a i l l, which from 60 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: what I understand. I know pronunciation a lot of these 61 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: of a lot of these Irish words is notoriously tricky 62 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: for English speakers like us. But I think that is 63 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: also pronounced pretty much just McCool. So Finn McCool. Great name, 64 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: by the way, it's one of these names that, especially today, 65 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: with connotations of cool and coolness. It's instantly interesting as 66 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: the hero's name, but if you're not familiar with them. 67 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: He stands alongside Cucullen as one of the two great 68 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: heroes of Irish mythology. He's a much later hero than 69 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: Colin Uh, and like any hero of myth there are 70 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: varying tales about him. It is interesting that both characters 71 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: are known for entering altered states of consciousness. Finn for 72 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: his prescient thumb state where he can you know his 73 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: well discuss can can place his thumb inside of his 74 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: mouth and uh and with with the you know some 75 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: other like chanting effects uh stare into the future, or 76 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: at least gain some sort of supernatural wisdom. And Cocolin, 77 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: as we discussed in our past episode on co Colin 78 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: was able to enter the warp spasm in battle where 79 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: he's in this altered state of of of a barbarian rage. 80 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: He sort of transforms into a semi monster. Yeah, kind 81 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: of like a hulk mode. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, Finn McCool, 82 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: you know what's the origin story? Right, Every good hero 83 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: has an origin story. Well, we're told that his father 84 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: died when he was very young, either due to a 85 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: crime of his own doing or some conflict with a 86 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: val clan. There are different variations on that. Either way, 87 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: he ends up being raised by his mother and Monican 88 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: in the book that I referenced earlier, stresses the importance 89 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: of female energy in his raising, especially as his mother 90 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: mRNA claimed divine descent from Nuada of the Silver Hand, 91 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 1: the first king of the Tuatha Dudan and the Tuapha 92 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: Dudan and were the sort of fairy folk godlike beings 93 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: of Irish mythology, and I would say often having a 94 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 1: rather ambiguous character and relationship to humanity. They're not like 95 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: consistently either enemies or helpers. They can kind of be 96 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: either one. Yeah. You see a lot of their spirit 97 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: reflected in some of the modern ideas of elves in 98 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: fantasy settings. You know, they're they're superior to humans, but 99 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: they are of the previous age, there may be not 100 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: as invested in this world as they once were. That 101 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah, and according to some legends, like 102 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: they're they're strength in this world is waning. Like I know, 103 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:07,559 Speaker 1: there's one story that involves Finn McCool and his band 104 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: of warriors, the Defenders of Ireland, who we'll talk about 105 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: more as we get on, but they in one story, 106 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: they end up going on a journey across the sea 107 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: to an island where they have been I think, sort 108 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: of lured by members of the Two author to dunn 109 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: And to come join them and sort of re energize 110 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 1: them or provide a supplemental strength to the waning strength 111 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: of these beings from a past age. By the way, 112 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: if you've seen the movie Hellboy Too, I believe the 113 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: antagonist in that film are supposed to be the Two 114 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: author to Dana, and I believe in fact that we're 115 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: supposed to see Nuada as the as the primary antagonist there. 116 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: That's the one that Hellboy has a big fight with. Anyway, 117 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: So Finn McCool, he's raised by his aunt and his 118 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: foster mother, the druid Bode Mall, and he's trained in 119 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: combat by the warrior woman Luthus Lurgan, and he accidentally 120 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: kills her in combat, and then the incident with the 121 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: salmon of Knowledge occurs around this time. We're going to 122 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: come back to that because it's it's it's it's quite 123 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: a tale. And also shortly after this he ends up 124 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: actually taking the name Finn after he defeats his first 125 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: enemy in combat, but then he goes on to study 126 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: his craft further under the warrior woman Buanan as well 127 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: as the male warrior Sethn mac fountain. Basically, he com 128 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: completes his Jedi training, he becomes this near perfect warrior 129 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: who also has this ability to tap into hidden wisdom 130 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: or see into the future, and then he assembles this 131 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: band of warriors to defend his province of Leinster, still 132 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: called that today in the southeast and east of Ireland, 133 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: and from the here on out. The story, you know, 134 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: includes various exploits and adventures, and we'll touch on some 135 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: of these, but he also engages in a number of 136 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: romantic conquests. They don't always go so well. His death 137 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: is told in various stories, and depending on where you're 138 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: hearing them or reading them, his death is said to 139 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,679 Speaker 1: have taken place at different points at different places spread 140 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: across Ireland in Scotland. And there's also this idea that 141 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: he may have been reborn as the hero Mongan. Still, 142 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: other tales say that he did not die at all, 143 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: but that he and his fianna wait in a cave 144 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: to one day rise up and defend Ireland once more, 145 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: you know, very much in keeping with the tales of 146 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: King Arthur, how one day King Arthur will return and 147 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: rise up and protect England. Yeah, when I was reading 148 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: these stories of Finn McCool, I kept noticing other parallels 149 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: to King Arthur, because so not only is there this 150 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: idea that he's you know, resting somewhere maybe one day 151 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: to be called up to defend his nation again, but 152 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: there is also a similarity to the Lancelot and Guinevere 153 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: story in that there's a story where Finn McCool his 154 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: wife falls in love with one of his greatest warriors, 155 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: a man named Diarmid, who obviously it reminds me a 156 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: lot of Lancelot and Guinevere, and they ultimately come to 157 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: I think, not battle each other, but I believe the 158 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: legend goes that Darmid has to go fight a bore 159 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: and then the boar gravely wounds him, and that Finn 160 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: McCool could save him by offering up water from his 161 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: hands that would be healing because of his magic powers, 162 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: but he essentially denies that healing power to his rival 163 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: and he dies. Yeah, they's ry. One of the side 164 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: effects I guess of acquiring the Thumb of Knowledge is 165 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: that is that we're told that Finn McCool can can 166 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: form his hands into a cup collect water and that 167 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: water will have healing properties. Pretty great. Is even just 168 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: a second tier superpower if you asked me, well, it 169 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: feels like one of those pylon powers you know, where 170 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, I really like a folk hero who has 171 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: one power and it's a pretty specific power. But but 172 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. The legendary heroes just tend to accumulate 173 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: more and more powers over the you know, in the telling, 174 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: over the years. At least it seems that way. Yeah, 175 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: in the same way that sometimes you'll have a mad 176 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: scientist in a fictional tale where they seem to have 177 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: too many interests, too many technologies at their disposal, Like 178 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, are you a time traveler or are you 179 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: a power armor guy? Are you are you building robots 180 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: or do you have an invisibility belt, like you need 181 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: to like really focus in on one and exploit that 182 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: because otherwise we really don't know what we're dealing with. 183 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: Seem to see, I just make giant scorpions. That's it. 184 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: There you go. It behooves you to specialize in the 185 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: realm of mad science or or or being a mythological hero. 186 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: That's right, you know those giant scorpions or quality. It 187 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: takes focus to make them. All right, Well, let's get 188 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: into the exploits of Finn McCool here, and we're going 189 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: to start with a with a big one one. That is, 190 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: if you're familiar with Finn McCool and you're otherwise not 191 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: that familiar with Irish mythology, you probably know this one. Yes, 192 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: though it's weird because I think this might be one 193 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: of the best known Finn McCool stories. But I think 194 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: it's also sort of an outlier in that it portrays 195 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: Finn McCool with different properties than he usually has. And 196 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: I think these legends probably also come later than a 197 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: lot of the other legends. But anyway, this one we're 198 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: going to talk about is a piece of geo mythology 199 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: a story created to explain geological features of the Earth. Now, 200 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: a lot of the geomiths we've looked at in previous 201 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: episodes explain big masses of rock or bodies of water 202 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 1: as some part of the body of a god, whether 203 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: living or dead. But this story is one of the 204 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: other common types, which is explaining natural formations as architecture 205 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: that was built by the demigods of old. And the 206 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: feature explained in this story is known as the Giants Causeway. 207 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: So to start with the plain observation of nature, there 208 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: is a stretch of coast along the north of Northern 209 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: Ireland in County Antrim that is covered with tens of 210 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: thousands of hexagonal columns of basalt. Now this is not 211 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: the only place in the world that has columns of 212 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: this type. You might have seen them at Devil's Tower 213 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: in Wyoming or other places around the world. I know 214 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: there's some in the Northwest in the United States, like 215 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: in Washington State, but you can find these in various places. 216 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: They're usually made of basalt, but sometimes other volcanic rocks 217 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: will take this form. And if you haven't ever seen 218 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 1: these things known as columnar basalt, you should look them 219 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: up because They're absolutely beautiful, and they're one of those 220 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: natural formations that just doesn't look natural at all. I 221 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: think many people who look at columnar basalt, they consult 222 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: their intuitions and they immediately come to think this is artificial. 223 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: Somebody built this, somebody carved these rocks. And it might 224 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: be an interesting question to ask why our intuitions work 225 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: this way while you look at these columns of rock 226 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: that mostly take the form of a hexagon and think 227 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: that this has got to be made by a person 228 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: or by a god instead of by nature. I guess 229 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: it looks so strange because we tend to assume that clean, 230 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: regular lines and angles like the kind we see in 231 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: polygons like like a hexagon, are just not to be 232 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: found in nature. Nature should have, i don't know more 233 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: more irregular, fractal kind of edges. Yeah. I think that's 234 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: a huge part of it, along with the rough uniformity 235 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: of everything. Like, it's not just oh, here's an interesting 236 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: rock that has these these properties. No, look at all 237 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: of them. It looks like there was some sort of 238 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: industrial scale, you know, alien brickmaking project here, right. They 239 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,239 Speaker 1: look like they were extruded out of a machine. Yeah, 240 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: but anyway, there's been this stretch of the coast along 241 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: northern Ireland that has had these columns there for millions 242 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: of years, and over the centuries there arose some folk 243 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: tales in order to explain the origins of these columns. Yeah, 244 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: so the Giant's causeway again, this is the the Irish 245 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: side in question. It's composed of roughly forty thousand interlocking columns, 246 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: and again this is due to a volcanic fissure eruption. 247 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: No no alien brickmaking involved here. This all went down 248 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: roughly fifty to sixty million years ago. That's what we 249 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: know now. But according to Irish mythology, however, it was 250 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: built by Finn McCool and not just any Finn mcool, 251 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: not the regular sort of a superhero Finn McCool. This 252 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: is a giant Finn McCool. Yes, when you read accounts 253 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: of this, generally he's described as a giant, despite the 254 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: fact that he's not really described as a giant in 255 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: any other telling. Finn mccool's generally you as a you know, 256 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: a human hero or a hero with human proportions. It's 257 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: only in this case where he's he's gigantic. Now, one 258 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: thing I did read was that there's there's some thinking 259 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: that this formation may have originally been associated with other 260 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: mythological creators. There may have been different geomethology and play. 261 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: It might have been attributed to the monstrous Fomorians, which 262 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: were this these you know, giant race that were said 263 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: to be you know, previous occupiers of the territory who 264 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: were cast out at one point or another. So you know, 265 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: it could have been later on where someone's like, well, 266 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: the Fomorians are all right, but but Finn McCool is awesome. Uh, 267 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: let's let's adjust the story somewhat and Finn McCool becomes 268 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: the creator of the Giant's causeway. The basic idea with 269 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: Finn McCool and these formations as is that, okay, we 270 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: have these formations in Ireland, and then we also have 271 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: a very similar formations found at Fingal's Cave on the 272 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: Isle of Staffa in Scotland. And the idea here is 273 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: that well, on both sides here we must have the 274 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: remnants of a mythological bridge between these two lands. And 275 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: so the idea is that Finn is said to have 276 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: built the bridge as a means of reaching the other 277 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: side and battling a rival giant. Yes, and this is 278 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: the tale of the Giant's causeway. So there appeared to 279 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: be a lot of versions of this story. From what 280 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: I can tell, this is a folk tale that emerges 281 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: from oral tellings without a canonical original text, so I 282 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: think it's pointless to try to quest after the original here. 283 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm just going to tell it as a kind of 284 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: synthesis of the multiple versions I have read. I have 285 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: no idea which form of this story is oldest or 286 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: could claim to be closest to the original, but here 287 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: it goes in my synthesized form. Once upon a time 288 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: there was a giant named Finn McCool who lived in 289 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: Ireland with his wife Una. And Finn McCool was brave 290 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: and strong, but he was also hot tempered and rash, 291 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: and far across the water in Scotland there was another giant. 292 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: This was a nasty brute named Ben and Donner, or 293 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: the Red Man, and Ben and Donner used to harass 294 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: Finn McCool and his neighbors, shouting vicious slander and hair 295 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: raising taunts across the water at them. You can imagine 296 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: the kind of the French taunter from monty Python and 297 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: the Holy Grail. Just brutal, brutal put downs. Your mother 298 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: was a hamster, all that kind of stuff. And Finn 299 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: became so furious at the other giant that he uprooted 300 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: an enormous boulder and hurled it at the Scottish ogre. 301 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: But he missed, and the boulder landed in the sea, 302 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: and this boulder became the Isle of Man. And so 303 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: Finn sat around stewing, thinking, I must destroy this fool, 304 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: But I don't want to get my feet wet by 305 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: swimming over there, So how can I reach him? And 306 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 1: then he came up with an idea. He would build 307 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: a bridge out of stone. So between the Irish shore 308 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: and the rocky coast of Scotland he put together a 309 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: stone causeway that would allow him to walk all the 310 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: way across. And this causeway was the origin of the 311 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: basalt pillars that we can still see today. But of 312 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: course the pillars don't go all the way across anymore. 313 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: So what happened there? Well, having completed his causeway, Finn, 314 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: you know, he gets his blood up and he decides 315 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: to run across the sea to the other side and 316 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: give Ben and Donner a good walloping to shut him up. 317 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: But unfortunately, as brave and strong as Finn McCool was, 318 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: once he got a look at the Scottish giant up close, 319 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: his blood ran cold because Ben and Donner was a monster, 320 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: a beast even bigger and stronger than Finn himself. And 321 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: Finn knew that he would not win a fair fight 322 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: with Ben and Donner, so bravely ran away away. When 323 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: danger reared its ugly head, he turned his yellowtail and fled, 324 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: and so he ran back home to hide. But unfortunately, 325 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: now that he had built a causeway, it could be 326 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: crossed in both directions, so Ben and Donner soon came 327 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: over the bridge to Ireland looking for Finn. Finn did 328 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: not know what to do, but fortunately his wife Una 329 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: was diabolically clever, much cleverer than her husband, and she 330 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: came up with a plan. And it goes like this. 331 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: Una dressed Finn up as a baby and made him 332 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: lay down inside a giant cradle. You with me? So far? Yeah? 333 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: So soon Ben and Donner came knocking at their door 334 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: and he said, open the door, Finn McCool, come out 335 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: and fight me and I'll give you a beating. You'll 336 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: never forget. Instead, Una opened the door and she welcomed 337 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: Ben and Donna inside and showed him hospitality. She said, 338 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: my husband is not home right now, but he'll be 339 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: glad to fight you when he gets back. In the meantime, 340 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: please sit down and help yourself to some bread. I 341 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: baked it just the way my husband likes it. So 342 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: Ben and Donner broke off a piece of the loaf 343 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: and bit into it, but immediately he spat it out, 344 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: and he shouted, this bread cracks my teeth. Because secretly 345 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: Una had baked bars of iron into the dough. And 346 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: so she feigned, you know, she feigned ignorance and said, 347 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't think it would trouble such a 348 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: strong man as yourself. My husband loves that recipe. Even 349 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: our baby eats it that way. And this directed Ben 350 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: and Donner's attention to the baby, which was again Finn 351 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: himself in disguise as a baby in a crib. And 352 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 1: so when Ben and Donner went over and got a 353 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 1: look at the child, he said to himself, if the 354 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: baby is already an iron eating giant as he lies 355 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: in his crib, his father must be the size of 356 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: a mountain. I cannot beat this guy. So here at 357 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: this moment, Ben and Donner is seized with fears. He 358 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: is fully bought into Unna's trickery, and Ben and Donna 359 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: runs away, and as he flees, he destroyed is the 360 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: bridge of stone that Finn had built so that his 361 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: enemy can never come and find him. And all that's 362 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: left is the part of the bridge on the Irish 363 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: shore and the part on the Scottish side. Again that's 364 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: near the place called Fingal's Cave. And this is one 365 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: of my favorite showdown stories of all time. Now, defeating 366 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: your enemy by dressing as a baby, it is so good. 367 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, you think you're going to get 368 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: just this giant battle throw down and instead you get 369 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: this comedic game of deception. I love it. Now. There 370 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: is another version that actually has a fight, though it 371 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: involves a lot of the same elements. So this other 372 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: version I was reading about. I was reading about it 373 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: in a book that I know you're going to reference later, 374 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: the one by James McKillop called Fian McCool Celtic Myth 375 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: in English Literature, published by Syracuse University Press in nineteen 376 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: eighty five, and McKillop draws attention to a version of 377 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: the story told in William Carlton's The Legend of Knockmany, 378 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: And this is from the Midnight eighteenth century, and the 379 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: variations in Carlton's version are that the other giant is 380 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: not named Ben and Donner, but is named ku Cullen. Interesting, 381 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: you know, that's the name of another Irish folk hero 382 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: that originally had nothing to do with this story. So 383 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on there. Maybe it's just 384 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: sort of blending together of strong man in folk stories, 385 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: or just realizing we've got to have these two characters 386 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: fight each other. This is like the Batman Superman of 387 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: the day. Well, so many elements of the story are 388 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: the same as the version I just told, but some 389 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: things are different. This version includes a detail that when 390 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: Finn returns home to Una, he says he's afraid that 391 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: he will be skivered like a rabbit if he has 392 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: to fight Kucullen. But Una knows that Kucullen's power is 393 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: contained in the middle finger of his right hand. He 394 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: has a magic middle finger, and she knows if you 395 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: can compromise the finger, you sap his beastly magic, and 396 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: he who loses strength, he won't be able to fight. 397 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like I don't know Samson's hair 398 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: or something, except this is the middle finger of his 399 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: right hand. So like in the version I told, Cucullen 400 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: comes over and Una feeds him bread with metal or 401 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: I think in this case it's stones of granite inside, 402 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: and he breaks his teeth on the bread. Then when 403 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: he hears that even their baby eats this bread, Kucullen 404 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: is incredulous and he has to go feel the baby's 405 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: teeth again. The baby is actually Finn McCool in disguise, 406 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: and when cucullen reaches inside the baby's mouth to feel 407 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: its teeth, Finn bites off the magic middle finger, and 408 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: now the giant is as weak as immortal man, so 409 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: Finn beats him up very easily. All right, So it 410 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: started out like it was going to be like this 411 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: big throwdown, but again we have a comic game of 412 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: deception in play once more. Yes, and McKillop points out 413 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: that in this story it's interesting that Finn is victorious, 414 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: but only after both showing cowardice in running away from 415 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: the initial fight and resorting to trickery. Trickery that wasn't 416 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: even his idea. It's not even like he's a you know, 417 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: a cunning fox like Odysseus. Una is the real hero 418 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: of the story. She comes up with the whole idea 419 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: of how to Like she has the knowledge about the 420 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: magic middle finger, and she comes up with the whole plan. 421 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: So and he has to dress as a baby in 422 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: order to defeat his enemy. So it's a weird kind 423 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: of simultaneous victory and humiliation. He wins essentially by no 424 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: virtue of his own. But there are a couple of 425 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: things I kept thinking about with the story that are 426 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: going to tie into what you'll bring up in more 427 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: detail when you talk about the Thumb of Knowledge. Because 428 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: so first of all, it's a story in which Finn 429 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: McCool dresses up as a giant baby. And one thing 430 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: that we know Finn McCool did in other legends is 431 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 1: suck on his thumb in order to gain insight or knowledge, 432 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: which of course is associated with you know, that's what 433 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: babies do. But the other thing is that Finn McCool 434 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: has to bite off the magic middle finger of his 435 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: enemy in order to defeat him and steal his power. 436 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: So his enemy has a magic finger in this story, 437 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: just like Finn McCool does, though the magic thumb is 438 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: not really mentioned in this telling. Yeah, I mean, this 439 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: all has to be connected. I don't remember tales of 440 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: Cucullin's magic middle finger coming up when we researched the 441 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: hero previously, and clearly the idea of a Finn McCool 442 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: who has this thumb of knowledge, the idea of him 443 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: dressing up as a baby feels like, I mean, it 444 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: feels like a perfect creation, Like you can imagine that 445 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: just being you know, whatever the exact origins are, and 446 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: we'll get into that of the thumb of knowledge, it 447 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: just makes sense that somebody later would think of But 448 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: what if he also acted like a baby. You can't 449 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: help it go there, because, of course, babies putting fingers 450 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: into or their thumb in their mouth, sucking on their thumb. 451 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: It's it's a universal reality, and it's been you know, 452 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: you see it reflected in various myths and traditions around 453 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: the world, So you couldn't help it go in that direction. Now, 454 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: before we move on, I did want to come back 455 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: to the geological question of what actually causes hexagonal columns 456 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: to form in volcanic rock, like what is the actual 457 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: scientific origin of the rocks that were believed to be 458 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: part of the Giants Causeway? So that giants giants right. 459 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: So these columns are usually, but not always, found in 460 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: a type of rock called basalt, which is a type 461 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: of igneous rock that's created when lava flows out of 462 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: a volcano or out of a fissure in the earth 463 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: and then cools, and under certain conditions, the cooling process 464 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: of that liquid lava can give rise to columns like 465 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: the kind we see at the Giants Causeway. So when 466 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: molten lava settles and begins to cool, what happens is 467 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: its surface begins to set, turning from a glowing orange 468 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: liquid into this solid, dark shape. And this cooling happens 469 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: from the outside in so the part exposed to the atmosphere, 470 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: or especially I think when this occurs in water, that 471 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: the part that's exposed to either air or water that 472 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: cools the fastest, and then the parts underneath retain their 473 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: heat the longest. And as the surface cools, it also contracts, 474 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: it literally shrinks in volume. So this is something that's 475 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: common to all kinds of materials, are as their temperature 476 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: goes down, they shrink in volume. You can observe this 477 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: if you like you've ever seen videos rob of people 478 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: freezing balloons in liquid nitrogen. I feel like I have. 479 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: What happens when you freeze the balloon in liquid nitrogen. 480 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: It's really interesting. It shrinks. So you can take a 481 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: balloon that's inflated and kind of plunge it into liquid 482 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: nitrogen and then it shrinks down. It looks like it's 483 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: completely deflated. But then if you take it out of 484 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: the liquid nitrogen, sit it on a table or something, 485 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: it will gradually as it warms up, reinflate again. So 486 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: like what's going on. It's almost as if it's magic. 487 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: But what's happening is the cooling of the gas inside 488 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,400 Speaker 1: the balloon causes that gas to contract, and it shrinks 489 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: down and down and down until the balloon is essentially deflated. 490 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: Then when it warms back up, it expands again. Oh okay, 491 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: maybe I haven't seen videos of this before. It's worth 492 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: looking up. It looks really cool. I bet you can 493 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: shrink a balloon by putting it in your freezer as well. Yeah, 494 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: maybe that's what I've seen before, but probably not as 495 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: fully shriveled. As the lipid nitrogeneral gets you. But anyway, so, yeah, 496 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: things tend to contract, they shrink as they cool, and 497 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: the same thing is true if this lava. So the 498 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: surface cools faster than the part down below, and as 499 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: the surface cools, it shrinks. But as this contraction is happening, 500 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: it's also setting up solid at the same time, So 501 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: the surface of the lava actually cracks as it shrinks, 502 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: and so especially if the cooling is happening in a 503 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: fairly evenly distributed way, what tends to happen is that 504 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: these cracks occur around evenly spaced centers of surface contraction 505 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: that occur at pretty fixed intervals. Sort of. You can 506 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: map them as a bunch of dots around the surface 507 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: of the lava formation, and they'll be pretty evenly spaced out. 508 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: And then the cracks form around those centers of cooling, 509 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: and they one of the easiest ways for those cracks 510 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: to form is roughly into hexagons around those centers. And 511 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: as the cracks form on the surface, the lava mass 512 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: continues cooling and the cracks propagate vertically down into the 513 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: center of the mass, forming these columns, and so eventually 514 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: the mass cools and solidifies entirely, and we're left with 515 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: columnar basalt like we find at the Giants Causeway. It 516 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: all started with cracks on the surface from the cooling, 517 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: and those cracks penetrated deeper and deeper as the mass 518 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: of lava cooled, and again the result is just quite impressive. 519 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: I've not been to one of these sites and seen 520 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: it in person, but researching this a little bit and 521 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: looking at some of these photog graphsh it makes me 522 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: want to go. I know I've seen some in person 523 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: at at a volcanic site in Oregon, and I can't 524 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: recall if I've seen any anywhere else. I know there 525 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: is it's either an elaborate set or a location that's 526 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: used in the TV series Raised by Wolves that looks 527 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: a lot like this, But it's my understanding that that 528 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: show is filmed in South Africa, so I don't know 529 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: if there's a South African location that has a similar 530 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: geography going on, or if that's all just you know, 531 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: a set or something. At any rate, it looks impressive 532 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: in that show as well. If we were only in 533 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: the office, I could just yell at Holly and ask her, 534 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: since she does the podcast for raised by wolves. Oh yeah, 535 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: she's got the hook up for all your basult information. 536 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: All right, So that's the giants causeway, that's a little geomethology, 537 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: but we all know that it takes a little more 538 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: than geo mythology to make a mythic hero. We also 539 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: need some sort of a monster battle. There has to 540 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: be a slaying of some sort. If not a monster battle, 541 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: then it led at least some sort of epic battled 542 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: against another you know, humanoid adversary. And in this case, 543 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: well we've we've got a we've got a pretty good one. 544 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: We have the sling of Aileen mcmidnah, aka the Burner. 545 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,719 Speaker 1: So I apologize, but that makes me think of him 546 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: as a phone. Well my mind and instantly went to 547 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: the possibility that he's really into going to burning man 548 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: in various regional burns and in a way, I mean 549 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: he is a musician. So we're told that mcmidnah was 550 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: the fairy musician of the two Apha to Din and 551 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: again the powerful rulers of the other world. Now, Aileen 552 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: is often described in this case as a dark figure 553 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: with fiery breath, armed with both a supernatural harp that 554 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: could lull mortals to sleep, as well as a poisoned spear. 555 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: Now the spear in this in this case, it doesn't 556 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: seem again all of these things that kind of depends 557 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: on the tell and who's writing it down, But the 558 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: spear doesn't seem to be poisoned in the traditional sense, 559 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: though I it also does sound like it will still 560 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: poison you if you're stabbed with it, but more to 561 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: the point, it emits poisonous fume. So it's like, it's 562 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: pretty fabulous vision to have in your mind, this idea. 563 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: Here's this is a dark, fiery monster being and has 564 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: a harp in one hand and the other this this 565 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: spear that is just smoking with poison. I'll also point 566 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: out that if you start looking at illustrations of Aleen, 567 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: you'll find it's kind of all over the place, Like 568 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: there's there's a pretty famous one where Aileen looks like 569 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: this kind of monolithic dark giant that kind of looks 570 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: almost like a robot firing a blast of energy at 571 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: Finn McCool and I really love that image, and it 572 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: kind of keeps with this idea of sort of the 573 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,719 Speaker 1: the elder superpowers of the two appad don and but 574 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: then I also found one where Alan mcminnot just looks 575 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: like a big grotesque, demonoid goblin creature shooting fire out 576 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: of his his pig like nostrils out of the nose, 577 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: like he's blowing his nose and fires coming out, and 578 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: he's got one big horn in the middle of his head. Yeah, 579 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: so I was reading a little bit more about In 580 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: Carol Rose's Fairy Spirits, leprecons and Goblins, she of course 581 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: has a section where she discusses this particular Aileen and 582 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: discusses how Ailin comes to play for the Palace of 583 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:34,719 Speaker 1: Tara on the Festival of Solon, and he becomes irate 584 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: because he's playing this music on this magical harp, and 585 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: what does it do? It puts everyone to sleep. That 586 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: is kind of his or this harp's magical power. So, 587 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: I mean, really shame on him. He should be expecting this, 588 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: but he gets mad instead, So he's like, what are 589 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: you doing falling to sleep during my beautiful music. He 590 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: takes up his spear and he blasts three blasts of 591 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: fire from his nostrils and he destroys the entire palace. 592 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: The entire cast just completely destroyed. So what do you do? Well, 593 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: they rebuilt the castle, and then the same thing happened 594 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: again the following year. I don't know why they booked 595 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: Aileen again, the same gig that destroyed the castle. I 596 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: actually I don't think they booked him. I think the 597 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: ideas he keeps coming back, such as his rage at 598 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: this place, such as is lust for vengeance, and then 599 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,959 Speaker 1: every time he destroys the place, they have to build 600 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: it back up, and this cycle repeats itself for more 601 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,959 Speaker 1: than two decades. After twenty three years of this, Finn 602 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: McCool steps up and defeats the beast. He comes in 603 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: very much like it's very much like a Baowoff and 604 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: Grenville situation. You know, he is, here's the monster that 605 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: keeps attacking the center of culture and civilization. And then 606 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,919 Speaker 1: eventually you need an outsider, a hero to step in 607 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: and really put the boots to the monster. Now, I'm 608 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: thinking a big challenge with fighting this monster is going 609 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: to be if he's got it like a like a 610 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: loot or a or a dulcimer or whatever, that when 611 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: he plays it everybody to sleep. Can't he lull any 612 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: conquering hero to sleep? Yeah? But luckily Finn McCool he's 613 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: a sneaky one. Uh uh. I read that one of 614 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: the tactics he employs here to make himself immune to 615 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: the magic. Uh He he huffs the fumes from the spear, 616 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: which are so One of the like the poisonous effects 617 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 1: of it is that it keeps you from falling asleep. 618 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure how that would work, but in 619 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: the story that's that is what is said to have occurred. 620 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: So he's immune to the music, and then he's able 621 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: to get in close battle the Alan and then stab 622 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: the Alan with his own poisonous spear, thus killing him. 623 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: In some versions, he doesn't stab him with it, He 624 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,879 Speaker 1: just like holds it close enough to where he has 625 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: to breathe in all of those poisonous fumes and then 626 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: dies of the poison. Now, he referenced that book by 627 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: James McKillop earlier, and mccullop points out that, yeah, this 628 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: is basically the same model found in Baowolf as well. 629 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: The oldest Allen tales date back in writing to the 630 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: twelfth century, but there are also other accounts, and mccaullut 631 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: goes into these a finding battle with other fire based creatures. Now, 632 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,919 Speaker 1: according to a Monaghan. This Alan mcmigna is the most 633 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: famous Ailan, but there was another Ailen of note as well, 634 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 1: Ailen Tretchen, the triple headed Aileen, and it would attack 635 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: the Irish cities Tara and Domain Macha. And sometimes it's 636 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: described as male, sometimes it's described as female, and it's 637 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: said to live in a cave and may be associated 638 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: with the Morrigan. The difference between the two Aileen's is 639 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: quote difficult to discern. You know, this is not unique 640 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: to Irish legend and myth, but it does seem like 641 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of sort of mithime contagion, little elements 642 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: of one mythic figure or story just bleeding over into 643 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: the other. Yeah, yeah, Okay, Now, I know we've building 644 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: up the thumb. The whole time you at home are 645 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: thinking like, when are they going to get to the thumb. 646 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: We got to know about the thumb, so we are 647 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: going to talk about that, but I think we need 648 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: to save it for the next part in the series, 649 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: which is going to be all thumb. Yeah, all thumb 650 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: right in the mouths or in this case, in the ears, 651 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: because you'll be listening. Yeah, So next next episode we 652 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: will get into the story of Finn McCool and the 653 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: Thumb of Knowledge, the different versions of it, how into 654 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: what extent it bleeds over into other hero stories, and 655 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: you know, well, maybe get into it a little a 656 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: little bit of the potential science of the Thumb of 657 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: Knowledge as well. And hey, that episode is going to 658 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: come out on Saint Patrick's Day itself, so I think 659 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: that's perfect, brilliant all right. In the meantime, if you 660 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: would like to listen to other episodes of Stuff to 661 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind, it publishes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and 662 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed on Mondays. 663 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: We do listener mail. On Wednesdays we do an artifact 664 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 1: or monster Fact, and then on Fridays we do Weird 665 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: House Cinema. That's our time to set aside most serious 666 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: concerns and just talk about a strange film. Huge thanks 667 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,720 Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. 668 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 669 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,240 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 670 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you 671 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your 672 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production 673 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio for more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 674 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you're listening to 675 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.