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Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black

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Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to another edition All the Smoke. Our third and

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Speaker 1: final day in New York has been a good run. Jack.

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Speaker 1: Good to see you, my brother. You know that we

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Speaker 1: got a special guest. Uh, former teammate of Stack. Brother

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Speaker 1: runs the best Drive Nation program out there at Dallas,

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Speaker 1: got the best tournaments. Got a great little situation said

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Speaker 1: about there. Welcome to show, Jermaine O'Neil. Man. Let's get

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Speaker 1: right into it. Man, You've got something, A big project

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Speaker 1: you've been working on. Untold comes out of Netflix, The

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Speaker 1: Alice at the Palace. August Tip talked to us about

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Speaker 1: that and your involvement in it. Man. Honestly, it's been, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's been about really ten years. I've been looking to

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Speaker 1: try to get into this film thing. Obviously, Jack, he

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Speaker 1: was involved with this. So you know how I feel

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Speaker 1: about like the stories and the narratives of of things

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Speaker 1: that out there. Right. Um, So, I when I'd have

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Speaker 1: met with a bunch of different producers directors, didn't really

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Speaker 1: feel like people understood where I was trying to go

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Speaker 1: with it. The idea behind the film was not to

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Speaker 1: the abbot NBA fan, but just to the actual person,

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Speaker 1: regular everyday person that actually knew about the malice. Right.

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Speaker 1: It was a conclusion that was out there that we

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Speaker 1: never actually got an opportunity to talk about. So I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do a film that spoke to that, to

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Speaker 1: that person because, to be quite honest, Uh, seventeen years later,

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Speaker 1: just tired of talking about it while it has an anniversary.

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Speaker 1: So I felt like this Doctorum was able to give

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Speaker 1: us our platform. Uh, now you have people have to

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Speaker 1: be able to make a conclusion on actual facts actually,

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Speaker 1: and that somebody else sitting on on accouch somewhere, you know,

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Speaker 1: writing them some articles that they don't know because it's

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Speaker 1: been almost like urban legend, you know. I mean, that

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Speaker 1: was one of the biggest incidents in NBA history, and

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Speaker 1: it's almost has been like urban legends. Part what happened

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Speaker 1: were led up to it? What happened after all? This

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Speaker 1: kind of shift. So you guys finally got a chance

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Speaker 1: to tell that. What do you want the average fan

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Speaker 1: of the average person to take away from this stock Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, first, like I gotta say a big thank

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Speaker 1: you to Netflix for given an opportunity perfect time and

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Speaker 1: the way brothers um they understood uh, Florida director understood division. Right,

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Speaker 1: that was important. They were able to get it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, this dock is is important to me

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Speaker 1: um in many ways because it allows people and when

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Speaker 1: people think about the brawl, they always you don't care

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Speaker 1: where I'm at a man, I'm a gonna scrap some

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Speaker 1: people talking about they don't know everything else we went on.

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Speaker 1: This went on for like ten years, bro, Like I

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Speaker 1: had a felony, the same charge you'll get for shooting

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Speaker 1: and stabbing somebody, you know what I'm saying. And it

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Speaker 1: was like a situation where to me, beyond even those things,

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Speaker 1: it allowed people to take shots at a culture, right,

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Speaker 1: take shots at our league, and still not be able

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Speaker 1: to have a conversational, real educated conversation about what actually

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Speaker 1: really happened. Right, And this is what this doc really

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Speaker 1: gives you people opportunity to kind of relate to and say, Okay, damn,

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Speaker 1: that was that was. It was much bigger than them

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Speaker 1: throwing hands. They just looked at us, some rich thugs

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Speaker 1: out there. They didn't take time to comprehend nothing, why

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Speaker 1: I went down, why we wasn't protected, how we was treated.

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Speaker 1: None of that matter, So I'm excited to be involved.

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Speaker 1: Uh And it's doc and I'm glad I was happening.

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Speaker 1: Jail called me because, like you said, I'm tired of

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Speaker 1: talking about it too, you know what I mean? And

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Speaker 1: you do you do more? And it's doctor here our side.

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Speaker 1: You see actual footage, you know what I mean. To

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Speaker 1: you can judge for yourself to see how we was

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Speaker 1: treated and how we wasn't protected, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And and then a lot of things gonna come to light.

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Speaker 1: So I can't wait till I can't wait to the

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Speaker 1: World season August time. And my brothers are also executive

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Speaker 1: producer in it. So how was that night impact of

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Speaker 1: your career after that? Well? I know, but tell them,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know firsthand. Um, to me, wasn't even

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Speaker 1: about just the basketball. I remember, I remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: going getting back, getting re estated. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't even know I took the NBA the court in

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Speaker 1: one Yeah, tell us about that, you know. So I

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Speaker 1: feel always that that day, Yeah, we felt like we

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Speaker 1: had the right to do what we did right, And

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Speaker 1: so going going through that whole arbitration, if I didn't

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Speaker 1: if if I didn't have to go through the arbitration

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Speaker 1: to get to the federal court, out have been back

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Speaker 1: playing sooner. So I went through a situation where the

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Speaker 1: judge said, hey, you had the right to do what

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Speaker 1: you it and it was it was to me when

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Speaker 1: you talk about career and all this other stuff. That's

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Speaker 1: the part that that made me a little bit better

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Speaker 1: towards everything, because the NBA had an opportunity to write it,

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Speaker 1: to write it right. The Pacers had an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: write it. Understood bottom line, numbers matter the most, right.

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Speaker 1: They didn't know how to handle it um. So I

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Speaker 1: understood that part. But once we went to court and

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Speaker 1: got through that process, you would think that they would

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Speaker 1: have said, okay, we're good. But they didn't write I

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Speaker 1: come back. I get reinstated at the fifteen games. So

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Speaker 1: you got fifteen, you got thirty, got shortened, you had

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Speaker 1: thirty all of them. I'll tell you what mine didn't

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Speaker 1: give you do stuff. The same day ran did something

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Speaker 1: else crazy during the middle of the arbitration. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was crazy because again, if I don't have to go

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Speaker 1: through the whole process of arbitration, I would have been

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Speaker 1: back playing. So I get back I get reinstated and

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Speaker 1: I still give I still make the All Star team, right,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm voting in as a starter and my wife

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Speaker 1: get to Houston. It ain't a picture for me to

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Speaker 1: be found you like that, Dade not working with me.

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Speaker 1: They're not working with me. And that was the first

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Speaker 1: time I understood when I when I'm telling y'all, no

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Speaker 1: picture nowhere, Like I'm a starter, right, So those are

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Speaker 1: the picture that you see first unless they see you

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Speaker 1: walking around, they wouldn't even know I'm looking through the books.

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Speaker 1: No picture, right, And so that was like the moment

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Speaker 1: where I really like really understood what that was, like

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Speaker 1: what the impact of that was, and um that to

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Speaker 1: me again, it wasn't personal for me. The thing that

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Speaker 1: bothered me the most is when people of quote unquote

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Speaker 1: substance that are talking about Jack me Ron, the NBA players, braids, tattoos,

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Speaker 1: music culture, culture that was at things for me bro right,

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Speaker 1: because now they are allowed to do. Bob Costs was

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Speaker 1: one got a lot of respect for Bob Costs. Watch

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Speaker 1: the dog, watch the thing that thug World was thrown

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Speaker 1: out there probably a thousand times, a thousand times. All

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's it's it's about you know, hip

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Speaker 1: hop music we listened to. It's about our corners, about

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Speaker 1: our tattoos, about the color of your skin. Not knowing

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Speaker 1: that day hockey, right, I remember going through the whole

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Speaker 1: arbitration process and the lawyers bringing up some hockey stuff,

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Speaker 1: celebrated get to beat the hell out of each other

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Speaker 1: on the regular basis, people routing that on right, they

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Speaker 1: ain't talking about the hairstyle. They ain't talking about the music.

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Speaker 1: They're listening to baseball same way. Right, you get to

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Speaker 1: get the rush, the mount getting through some hands, but

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Speaker 1: they ain't thugs. So to me, it became more about

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Speaker 1: a race thing, and and it put our league in

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Speaker 1: a position, and we all care about the league. It's

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Speaker 1: been special to was in the special to our families,

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Speaker 1: not only for us person but generationally right, And so

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Speaker 1: that was the thing that was was hurtful towards me.

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Speaker 1: And we had to have a muzzle because we still

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Speaker 1: got criminal that we're dealing with and got civil standing

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Speaker 1: right behind it. How long we was in court and

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Speaker 1: all that dragon back and forth. Man, people don't even

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Speaker 1: understand that, so you know, So to me, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily about the career because honestly, after that point I

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Speaker 1: understood what it was. Right. It was no debate, right.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have to be stupid death for blind

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Speaker 1: to understand not understand what was happening. Right, you know,

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Speaker 1: I knew that the league was really fucking with me

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Speaker 1: before and then afterwards, you know, had the opportunity people

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Speaker 1: don't know, the stack knows us, had opportunities that I I

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Speaker 1: don't even You might not even notice that opportunity to

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Speaker 1: step away from Brian and Jack in the whole projects

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Speaker 1: all to separate yourself and happen. Okay, And I say that, um,

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Speaker 1: the league. I took a call the day after. People

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Speaker 1: don't even notice, and they asked me, um to do

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Speaker 1: a couple of things. And what I did, what Jack

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Speaker 1: did was in straight protection of my teammates. Right. When

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Speaker 1: people talk about leadership, people talk about togetherness, people talk

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Speaker 1: about brotherhood, that is tested when your asses in uh

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Speaker 1: twenty ced arena and people at you right, and so

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Speaker 1: you know, to go back to the question, the career

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Speaker 1: thing wasn't necessarily the issue. Um, it was perception, because

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Speaker 1: I'm still dealing with that today. I was in Vegas

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Speaker 1: this past weekend and I might have nine people might

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Speaker 1: have asked me about I can't. I cannot step away

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Speaker 1: from it. I'm almost tired of talking about it, to

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Speaker 1: be honest, because kids are asking me that wasn't even born.

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Speaker 1: So you know, from a career standpoint, I still end

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Speaker 1: up played eighteen years. The thing that I'm mad about

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Speaker 1: the most, I didn't get an opportunity to I'm the

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Speaker 1: only one that actually didn't get the opportunity. With the

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Speaker 1: championship in the Hope pros said, and you have Reggie

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Speaker 1: up and Reggie yeah, but talked to that too, because Jack,

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Speaker 1: I want to get back to you and which you

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Speaker 1: went through and the ship you talked about. But in

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Speaker 1: the midst of all that's going on, you guys have

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Speaker 1: one of the best teams in the league that year.

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Speaker 1: We were the best team in the league when that happened.

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Speaker 1: Facts facts, There's no question. Um, but we wont We

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Speaker 1: had the best record of yere before and got beating

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Speaker 1: the conference finals. Body Truck. We knew going we hadn't already,

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Speaker 1: you know, the trader for Jack. We came back to camp,

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Speaker 1: everybody was in town early. We was like, we're about

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Speaker 1: to win this. We bout we bout the whoop and everybody.

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Speaker 1: And then when that happened, it like it wasn't a

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Speaker 1: situation like you knew right away after that day that

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Speaker 1: it was. It was done right. And I remember going

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Speaker 1: and talking to Donnie and Larry and them and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: look man, like let's just hold on winning. Heels everything right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just you know, every things happen in professional

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Speaker 1: sports that year. The coach had some things going on

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Speaker 1: their team, they held it together like family would do,

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Speaker 1: like any any other family, and they didn't and it

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Speaker 1: just remember just you know, the city was broken, um,

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Speaker 1: the league was broken because they felt pressure from corporate

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Speaker 1: America about doing something and making change. His dress code

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Speaker 1: pops up right afterwards. You know, people looking at us,

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Speaker 1: you know, the same hugs and kiss as you get

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Speaker 1: walking into places you ain't getting no more because you know,

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Speaker 1: people feel like you. The reason and the thing that

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Speaker 1: I'm probably most disappointed about the most when we talk

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Speaker 1: about journalism, right, the lack of people, the lack of

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Speaker 1: professionalism that people had towards this process right, not doing

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Speaker 1: the work. Not doing it wasn't even about being writers,

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Speaker 1: about being first. What kind of story can I put

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Speaker 1: out there about this without actually not having any facts

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Speaker 1: behind it, Jack to what happened. So let me interview

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Speaker 1: you for a second. So when you said you got

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Speaker 1: thirty games and you had to do all because Ron

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Speaker 1: did something else during your arbitration, well, basically Jail went first,

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Speaker 1: and he basically laid the blueprint for us to all

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Speaker 1: possibly get our games reduced, right because Jail, Jail touched

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Speaker 1: on something that nobody thought of when he went up

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Speaker 1: to I remember this Vivilaine Jail saying, No, I hear

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Speaker 1: what everybody's saying, But Mica, sign is how my kids

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Speaker 1: gonna look at me after watching this on TV all

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Speaker 1: day and that total room down, like they initially like, wow,

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Speaker 1: we need we're not thinking about your families and like that.

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Speaker 1: And that's why Jail got his games reduced because he

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Speaker 1: brought a different side of that nobody was thinking about,

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Speaker 1: right Son, as if I'm sitting there and Jail was

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Speaker 1: killing it, he over there killing the Ron slides a

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Speaker 1: letter over to me men arbitration, and everybody seen him

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Speaker 1: do it. You remember this well, and everybody likes pay attention, bro,

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Speaker 1: And I don't even want to take it, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, because like everybody looking at us now,

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Speaker 1: and the letter said, did you really hint the guy

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you asked me that's doing the middle arborit

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Speaker 1: trais when we're trying to get our games re dudes

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Speaker 1: and and and then to my when he sleep it over. Man,

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Speaker 1: it was loud and everybody looked, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: something like, damn not know, we ain't gonna get our

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Speaker 1: games with dudes, and we didn't. I get update, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, I basically said, I just said the exact

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Speaker 1: thing Jamas said. But I was like, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: my teammker. You know what I'm saying, We're family. I'm

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Speaker 1: with him one with my I'm with my own family

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Speaker 1: doing the course of the year. So I just I

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Speaker 1: just did what a teammate should do. You know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't really elaborate

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Speaker 1: on nothing else and they and they didn't reduce my games.

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Speaker 1: But we still made the playoffs, still made it out

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Speaker 1: the first round. Then we did we get to the

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Speaker 1: second round. Still after all that was still made into

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Speaker 1: the second round. So that's how I know that team

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Speaker 1: is good, you know what I'm saying. But if ron

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Speaker 1: would have been more locked in if at the arbitration

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Speaker 1: and he came dressed the path man. He had on

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Speaker 1: some tux sedo pants with a whole another different color

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Speaker 1: suit jacket with some with some basketball like he like,

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Speaker 1: he did not take it serious at all. He did

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Speaker 1: not take it serious at all. Bro And and that's

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Speaker 1: a big reason why I made him to get out,

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Speaker 1: because he was talking doing the harbor traction and all

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Speaker 1: kindstuff that was unnecessary. But I would say this though,

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Speaker 1: right like, it's like the human element that was that

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Speaker 1: was lost in this entire process, right. And I remember

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Speaker 1: saying this on the stands when the prosecutor was it

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Speaker 1: was a question to me, I said, He asked, what

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Speaker 1: you do this again? I said, in the same position, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I said, would you go and knock on my door

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Speaker 1: and tell my wife and kids that the dad that

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Speaker 1: their dad and and and her husband is dead if

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Speaker 1: one of those chairs hit me in my head? I said,

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Speaker 1: So you have to ask yourself, what would you do

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Speaker 1: in a situation like that where it is no police

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Speaker 1: officers in there, and any bar he thought beer and

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Speaker 1: somebody face that's the saut that's a st anywhere else.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to dealing with a million dollar

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Speaker 1: black athletes, it's thugs going into the stands. And I

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Speaker 1: saw two on your breakfast club in and be recently

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Speaker 1: Jack that if you guys didn't react to the beer

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Speaker 1: being thrown, the fan would just probably got to throw

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Speaker 1: the beer. That's basically what it was. And you right, man,

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Speaker 1: no one would have happened to him. It's just been

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Speaker 1: a panther on the beard. They would have highlighted it,

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Speaker 1: but they wouldn't kicked him out, you know, suspended for

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Speaker 1: coming to games and nothing like that. J. You don't

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Speaker 1: really you're not really out in the media. You don't

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Speaker 1: really speak much. But it was known kind of around

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Speaker 1: the league that you don't have to get into super detail.

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Speaker 1: But you've got a hard time kind of forgiving um

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Speaker 1: the whole process. And there was a rift between you

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Speaker 1: and Ron for a while and it finally came you know,

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Speaker 1: you guys just you know, you got cool a little

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Speaker 1: while ago. But how hard was that, Like I said,

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Speaker 1: just the overall understanding of the process and then kind

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Speaker 1: of the internal riff with you too. Well think if

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Speaker 1: you know me, like you know, I'm about the right thing, right,

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Speaker 1: Um I am? I am very intense in many ways.

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Speaker 1: I am a zero to ten guy, But um, I

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Speaker 1: like to talk things through and and Ron what I what?

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Speaker 1: I Here's what I wish I would have knew back

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Speaker 1: then that I know now. It's his struggles, right. Mental

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Speaker 1: health is the real thing in our in our world,

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Speaker 1: and we all deal with things a little bit differently. Um.

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Speaker 1: He he was dealing with it in a way that

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand. But it's not to cut you off,

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Speaker 1: but we're just starting to talk about mental health now

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Speaker 1: and thinking about this is seventeen years ago, so this

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Speaker 1: is not even registering with us really as anybody really

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Speaker 1: registering with us. So go ahead. And I took it

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Speaker 1: as as disrespect I mean, Jack was in a lot.

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Speaker 1: I just took it as he was being disrespectful to

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Speaker 1: all of our time and effort, right, and the pacers

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Speaker 1: was doing the best job. But they could I think

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Speaker 1: at the time, together to hold it together, because um,

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Speaker 1: he would. We did just didn't know. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: would just not show up the stuff, right. I mean

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Speaker 1: people don't realize too, um that it really for us.

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Speaker 1: It started for me and him. It started the year

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Speaker 1: before in the conference finals, right where at the game

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Speaker 1: that Redgie got blocked. Um, we didn't see him. Remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you go from your home to the

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Speaker 1: way game is like two games in between. We didn't

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Speaker 1: see him until shoot around two days later. Right, And

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Speaker 1: so that was kind of a real moment where I

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Speaker 1: would just I was just I was past the point

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Speaker 1: of friendliness, right. I wanted to scrap like all the time,

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Speaker 1: but I was uneducated, right. I wish I was able

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Speaker 1: to be a better teammate to him versus being aggressive

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Speaker 1: towards him, being more of a brother tour right, because

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Speaker 1: again I didn't know um. And so I had an opportunity,

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Speaker 1: um to uh sit down with him, you know, shout

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Speaker 1: out to the big three. It was the first time

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Speaker 1: I actually had lunch with him since the time that

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Speaker 1: long How long ago was this? That was two years ago?

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Speaker 1: And me and him just set and had lunch together

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Speaker 1: and we kind of talked things through. UM, and we're

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Speaker 1: just in a better place. The one thing that has

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Speaker 1: keeps getting lost in his dog that he did two

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Speaker 1: years ago. Uh, and even this doc, I'm like, damn,

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Speaker 1: why the hell you know, things I'm saying about him

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Speaker 1: isn't getting put into the dock. It seemed like they

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Speaker 1: want to keep the Yeah, that that drift between and him.

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Speaker 1: I'm super proud of where he is today. It takes

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Speaker 1: a lot for a man to talk openly about his

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Speaker 1: failures and his struggles and stuff like that. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're all proful, you know men, And to hear him

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Speaker 1: say that, um means a lot. And I'm I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: proud of him from that perspective, but it's also big

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Speaker 1: of you. You know, they're kind of taking you know,

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Speaker 1: you're taking a step back. It's been seventeen years removed,

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Speaker 1: but trying to see, even though you were part of

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Speaker 1: to see where you could have been better at two

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Speaker 1: And I know Jack has done this before too, to

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Speaker 1: just to kind of see like, damn, you know I

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Speaker 1: could have did this better to help maybe it would

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Speaker 1: have changed this. And most people just like you know,

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Speaker 1: funking it's his problem, he should have did this, But

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Speaker 1: you know, to also you point the finger at yourself

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Speaker 1: feeling like where you could have did better as a

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Speaker 1: person to try to hopefully solve. So that's growth, and

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously you know with us being a lot older,

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Speaker 1: but that's I feel a different type of way man,

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Speaker 1: because the same counselor. They had him saying they act

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Speaker 1: they asked me to see and I wasn't doing those things.

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Speaker 1: Who at the time, I was really insensitive to what

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Speaker 1: he was going through, you know what I'm saying, because

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Speaker 1: we're seeing the same lady. They got us talking to

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Speaker 1: the same lady. But I ain't doing the dumb ship

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Speaker 1: you're doing, you know what I'm saying. They called him

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Speaker 1: me crazy too, but I ain't doing the dumb ship

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Speaker 1: he was he was doing, So I was kind of

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Speaker 1: incensive to it too. Can we talk to the same lady?

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Speaker 1: And really I feel like I was wasting my time

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Speaker 1: talking to him, you know what I'm saying. But they

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Speaker 1: felt like men wrong in the same boat or something.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sitting there talking to him later, and you know,

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Speaker 1: after we talked to he gonna do something else crazy.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well, look man, I don't I don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going on, you know what I'm saying. So I

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Speaker 1: was I was kind of the same way. I was

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Speaker 1: insensitive too. So before we leave this, I just want

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Speaker 1: to say, both of them dudes are luckiest fun that

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Speaker 1: both of you guys didn't have solid footing. It's all

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Speaker 1: I'm trying. Yes, yes, both of you guys slipped. Luckily,

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Speaker 1: by the grace of God. God, let y'all slip a

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Speaker 1: little bit because y'all with the motherfucker Daffy Duck. Both

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Speaker 1: of them dudes like knocked their beak to the back.

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Speaker 1: I gotta I got a good one off with you

385
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Speaker 1: right about the planet. Yeah, I wouldn't tell both, especially him.

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Speaker 1: Could you see Jake that slipped stopping from getting murdered.

387
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 1: But y'all don't realize. So what you do not see

388
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Speaker 1: is so I had just it was a guy I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it was an usher whatever that grabbed

390
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Speaker 1: me around my neck and he choked the usher right,

391
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Speaker 1: And so at that point, I'm in straight reaction mode,

392
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 1: like it's all the stuff that was on the table

393
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Speaker 1: that nobody chose to use, like the league or nobody

394
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 1: chose to use it. They just chose to use the

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Speaker 1: slide and punch, right, So I boom put him on

396
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Speaker 1: the table, right. I turned to my left. I see

397
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Speaker 1: Anthony Johnson on the floor. I never even sold that

398
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Speaker 1: her dad, dude get into it one. I see Anthony

399
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,719
Speaker 1: Johns on the super broken hand and I just sprint

400
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 1: over there. Because he's standing over him. Yeah, he's standing

401
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 1: over him. So at that point I was like, look,

402
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna clean up everything, right, anything that comes near,

403
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Speaker 1: I'm cleaning it up big. This twenty something jail, he's

404
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 1: already big at the house, right down these arms. At

405
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Speaker 1: twenty something, I remember jail. The strong motherfuck boy thing.

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Speaker 1: I think the craziest part about it bro this whole

407
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 1: process of the craziness. They come in, they try to

408
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: pepper spay us, the players, trying to take us to jail,

409
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 1: and we got hit with every beverage at the concession

410
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 1: that ever had in the arena about it there, you know,

411
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 1: oddly enough, I mean, this happened seventeen years ago, but

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00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 1: this ship kind of reared its head again in the

413
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: NBA this season with spitting on people and throwing bottle

414
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Speaker 1: bottles at people. To be and Stephen Jackson because to me,

415
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: and again, like I think fans feel like they're they

416
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: can comment like they're going to the zoo, and you

417
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: can poke it the like look at this as animals,

418
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Speaker 1: And I can say and do and throw anything I

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Speaker 1: want because I paid good money for this ticket. And

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00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 1: that's the furthest thing from the truth, and I'm surprised

421
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: what happened with you guys doesn't have more often because

422
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: fans are still completely out of hand. And it's crazy

423
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Speaker 1: to me because it always seems like the league is

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00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 1: trying to protect the fans and doesn't really give a

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00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: funk about what's going on with the players. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that you know, I'm sure we all about

427
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: like going into opposing arena. Um it's special. Stop, I

428
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: love it, right, yes, special being in that environment and

429
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 1: people yelling and screaming. It's a balance though, right, Always

430
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: tell people you treat me to what you treat me.

431
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: If if you stand in front of base things because

432
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: you spin on me, I don't care where we at.

433
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 1: You don't care in game out, game church like whatever

434
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 1: it is, like, it's gonna, it's gonna happen. So now

435
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:43,440
Speaker 1: that you want, you want the interaction amongst players and fans.

436
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: You don't fans. You do not own the players because

437
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: you pay for your ticket. That does not mean you

438
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: own the players, right, And I think once they get

439
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: that balance back, understand that we humans and we we

440
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: have families and all that other stuff, then I fall

441
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 1: into place where hopefully the NBA get that cleaned up

442
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: in other leadues because I really feel like fans are

443
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: out of hand and sometimes the fan needs to ship

444
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: the ship knocked out under make him realize. You remember

445
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: after that, I got traded to go to State and

446
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 1: we planed a utah. They got a life size cut

447
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: out of me in the jail uniforms, the under the basket.

448
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: The NBA didn't say nothing, then say moving than nothing.

449
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: It's right there and camera view, bro. Just because of that,

450
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,719
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying with them corners nigga, this nigger, nigger.

451
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: This It was crazy. It was nuts. But anyway, moving on,

452
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: check out check the doc Man August time Netflix. Yeah,

453
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: jail Mann's opportunity to tell the full story unseen for it.

454
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: Don't miss it. But the rumors asleep looking forward to it. Yeah,

455
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 1: moving forward, Uh seven one agency, U and T Max

456
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: started talk to us how that got started? Man? It

457
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: really honestly, man, Uh, they're trying to figure out what

458
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 1: to do with all of damn money. They still got boys,

459
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 1: Let's do something man got damn Yeah, for real with

460
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: it really and really you know you notice right, you know,

461
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 1: it's it's a situation where in you sports man, there's

462
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: a lot of falsehoods, right, and these kids opportunities dwindling

463
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: based off bad information. I always tell my parents and

464
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: my organizations that, look, you know, would you allow a

465
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: career law and care service got to do your accounting? Hm?

466
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: Not nobody do that ship like that, right, So why

467
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: are you bound people to hand to your kids and

468
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: give you this information that, by the way, it don't

469
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: make no sense. It may not suited to give in

470
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: the first place, exactly, And to me and Matt was

471
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: actually um talking about it. And really, to be honest,

472
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 1: jacket happened that right after George Floyd because we were

473
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: talking because you heard about a lot about systemic oppression

474
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: right in our in our areas, right, And what that

475
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: to us, what that means is information and tools, right,

476
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: the lack of information and tools. And I remember going

477
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: into my wife donated some money to um a school

478
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: in South Dallas and and this was like in nineteen

479
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: they didn't have an operating computer in the entire school.

480
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: Team bro. And so we said, me and Matt was

481
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: talking one day he caught me at the right time.

482
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: I was. I had just got off a call with

483
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: another agency that I was trying to spark a deal

484
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: with and I was telling what I was gonna do

485
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: some man, I'm in I we need to do this.

486
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: And that's how it really happened. Right. We want to

487
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: be leaders in the space and and and because we've

488
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: been through it, right, we understand it the highest level,

489
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: at the highest level, and not only the good part

490
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: about it, but also the bad parts about it. Right,

491
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: like the struggle, right, what that is, and the struggle

492
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: is what makes us who we are. And so you

493
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: know the idea of of men Matt getting together working

494
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: on Mike vic now to uh, well Mike get to

495
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: get to get the contract back in brothers and we

496
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: get football side, that would be dope. Yeah, that'll be

497
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: really dopey. Have you got So is it officially? Is

498
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: it started yet or you guys still in the process

499
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: of So it's official now? It was official. Now. We

500
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: went through almost a three month process of negotiations with

501
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of different agencies. But we realized that they

502
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 1: basically wanted us to work for him and do the

503
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: same work, so we might as well funded ourselves and

504
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: owning ourselves, um and put our own DNA and I

505
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: bring old blood into it. So we're super excited about it.

506
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: Man um um. You know it's a special air right

507
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: now with n I L stuff going on. Shout out

508
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: to you know whoever had hands in on that. Now

509
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: these kids can make some money off their likeness. Not

510
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: just the schools. I wanted to ask. I mean, also,

511
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: you have your beautiful facility out there in Dallas. You

512
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: throw the End of the Summer and me throw a

513
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: handful of tournaments. But you have the End of the

514
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: Summer tournament that's coming up in a couple of weeks

515
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: that we'll be at for the second time. But how

516
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: did that come about too? Because you have a beautiful facility,

517
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: I know, you know, rest in peace. Kobe, he was

518
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: doing the mamba stuff out here and he started to

519
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: kind of capitalize on that, and I went to Dallas.

520
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, ship, jail, ship is incredible. Have

521
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: you been to this ship out there? No? But I

522
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: I was. I was when he first bought the land,

523
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: like he was. I was talking to him going all

524
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: that time. He had so many pitches. Talk to us

525
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: how that went. Because I know that the city helped

526
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: you do it, correct, Yeah, help help helped support it.

527
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: But talk to us how that process went because I

528
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: think it's beautiful. I mean, you have a U basketball

529
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: your daughters, and you have to have volleyball. You have

530
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: kind of just a whole year round facility. That's absolutely beautiful. Yeah,

531
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: shout out Asia, She's she's been, she's my daughter. Is

532
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: actually the reason why the facility happened. We moved to Texas,

533
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: uh seven years ago, eight years ago something like that.

534
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: Maybe my wife probably nine years ago. But um, long

535
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: story short, Um, we had to take her to different

536
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: places to get all the services, and only services I

537
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: knew was out of one building as a pro right,

538
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: So that was the idea of building it. Obviously Dallas

539
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: has a ton of different facilities, you know, but none

540
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: of them was built like that. Still going to stop

541
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: shot right, one stop shot. Um. It was one of

542
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 1: the hardest things I've ever did in my life. Bro

543
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 1: to be honest. Um, you know, so times, you know,

544
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: society reminds you, um on what's going on. The builder

545
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: that built that facility had just built another one. Literally

546
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: walked off that site to my site to start building.

547
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: And it was two owners in the previous facility. That

548
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: one was did hotels, one day restaurants, um and so

549
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: he brought a banking company and we brought to banking

550
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: institutions with him, and they funded it. When they came

551
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: to me like I'm career sports, got right, prime, real estate,

552
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: balance sheet, everything, I couldn't get a loan. Really, I

553
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: end up building like they went through the whole dog

554
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: and ponies. And this is why I knew this was

555
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: God's will and God's plan, because other doors kept opening,

556
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: and so I ended up building that facility myself cash right,

557
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: So FOURT team nobody never builds you know you know

558
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: you too, that's yeah, And it was one of those things,

559
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: is bro wave. Just I knew it was God's will

560
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: because now I was leading into other things rather seven

561
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: one or whethers. You know, we're doing filming about to

562
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: start telling stories and in the UTH sports space too.

563
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: So UM, ultimately it's a legacy project for me. Um.

564
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: We had guys like Kay Cunningham is out of my program,

565
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: um r J Hampton who's drafted last year, UM, Terris Maxie,

566
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: Jamia's Ramsey Drew Timmy at Gonzaga. UM tell me, yeah,

567
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: we have a ton of ton of players out of there,

568
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: Sam Williams and um. So it's really one of those

569
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: things where I want to look back, um at the

570
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: impact that we've had, not only on the surface, but

571
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: away from the service because we take kids out to

572
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: the communities, bringing truckloads of food, donate money to schools,

573
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: you know, kind of the whole thing. And we're gonna

574
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: do these and other places back in my hometown, working

575
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: to deal with in Columbia, South Carolina, we're gonna build

576
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: one and also one uh in Buffalo. So looking at

577
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, that's the space I want to be in,

578
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: very passionate about it. Give some of these kids an opportunity,

579
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: um that I had. Well, it's just the ship we

580
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: wish we had when we were younger, you know. I

581
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: mean we're playing outside or playing in these dusty gyms,

582
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: and I mean you have a stead of our facility.

583
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: Like you said, it's a one stop shop with basketball, volleyball.

584
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: You got the soccer field in the back, you got

585
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 1: the weight room, you got the training, you got everything.

586
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: So it's a beautiful thing. I just don't give us

587
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: no fucking eight AI end games, bro coming all the

588
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: way from don't give us that motherfucking We're gonna be

589
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: all right. I got you, bro, Hey talked to us

590
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: about your upbringing, Um, South Carolina? What was like when

591
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: did you find basketball family dynamic? You know, I think

592
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: we all have, you know, different stories when it comes

593
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: to our upbringing. Um, South Carolina's Columbia in particular. Um,

594
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: it took a community to raise me right. Didn't know

595
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: my father right until I was thirty. Um, you know

596
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: my high school coast George Glenn shout out to him,

597
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: Old Claire High School, entire community out of metro. Um,

598
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 1: the city. I really took the time with me, remember, Um,

599
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, I was, I was, I was, I was.

600
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: The streets is all we know is in our inner

601
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: city areas, right, and that is those are the leaders

602
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: for us in many ways. And sometimes the O G

603
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: s uh they do it right, sometimes they do it wrong.

604
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: Mind did it right right? When they started seeing me

605
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 1: progressed as an athlete, they started pushing me to the side, like, right,

606
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: you can't you can't be out it, but you need

607
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: to go over here. Remember at the games that you know,

608
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: they said, if you go and you and you you

609
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: you hit your grades in school and you hit these

610
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: numbers on the court, we're gonna we're gonna set you up.

611
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: It's a popular maximum trunks. They got polos, Jordan's and everything,

612
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: and they're waiting on me right and and it kept

613
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: me motivated to do the right thing right because I

614
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: know I felt the love and support. Um. And it

615
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: definitely took a community to raise me. My mother did

616
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: a phenomenal job. But it's just certain things that a

617
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: mother can't do much right by herself. Um. And so

618
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: you know, the city has been just just been phenomenal

619
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: to me. Man. And Um, you know, I gotta say

620
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: this to um. Some of my old gs, Bernard Pig,

621
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: Richard Um, all those guys, Junior Lor poo a, raoms,

622
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: guys that really had hands in on my development. Still,

623
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: when did you find the game of basketball? Man? I

624
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: got I must have. I don't know about you. I

625
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: didn't really start playing it to my freshman year. I

626
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: was like six to you know, my freshman year I

627
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: went from like six to to six eleven and three months. Damn,

628
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: what were the knees feeling like I had to be braced?

629
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: Four is Gum saying, yeah, real story, get slaughter. All

630
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: that kicking the worst, wasn't it? At one time, man,

631
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: I was playing football and then I grew to six,

632
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: six ten, six eleven, and my my junior varsity coaches

633
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: like brot, listen, You're don't need to make a career change.

634
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: And I was like okay, and uh shout out to

635
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: Louis dreer Um, who was really the architect. Remember having

636
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: to take dance classes one two out every practice holding

637
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: his hand right one to one to Um. He really

638
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: taught me a lot, and the coach, George Glynn really

639
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: kind of put it over the top with Um becoming

640
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: a true father figure that had rules and regulations to

641
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: how we do that, do the ship every day. I

642
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: grew six inches from freshman year of the tank grave

643
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: y'all six ft. Going into my abhomore year, I walked

644
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: in at six six and it was similar, but this

645
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: was trials. I was out there running routes for football

646
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: season ain't started yet and I'm trying to try out

647
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: and go play football as a receiver. And during probably

648
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: my second round, I seen my coach and my mom

649
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: and my uncle walking towards the field. You know, my

650
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: mind back then, I'm thinking somebody got killed in my family,

651
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: something bad that happened. They are take the cleats off,

652
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: all that ship off, you ain't doing that. You got

653
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: you you don't see what you're going to basketball, but

654
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: we see it. I'm like, man, I can do both.

655
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm diance hat as I can do both. Now I

656
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: come to your ass out. So that was similar to me.

657
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: They saw something to me that out of saying myself

658
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: at that time, he was probably scared to get hit anyway, Huh.

659
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: He would have been scared to get hit, and I was,

660
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: I was the cleanest out there, and I think they

661
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: didn't like that. You know, I was gonna be clean, fresh, clean,

662
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Do yeah, you know, don'pe

663
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: boing back then every time? Who did you mind your game? After?

664
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: And I don't know, man, I'm you know, honestly, um

665
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: Kim Elijah was probably my favorite the dream I remember first.

666
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: I remember my first first time checking him. Brad was

667
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: I was trying to hold on for dear life right

668
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: though he was, he was the strongest, most agile. I'm

669
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: not even sure why when people talk about greatest centers ever,

670
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: his name does not pop up. He could arguably beating

671
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: number one, arguably be number one on both sides of

672
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 1: the court. He dominated right the all time leading shot

673
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: blocker in the business. Footwork was impeccable. I know why

674
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: because he was Muslim us and you're gonna hear about

675
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: it and the doctor's coming out about him. Um. They

676
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 1: told him that he had a conversation with with David

677
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: Stern and if you notice his name wasn't do up Black.

678
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: We don't talk like. We don't hear much now, even

679
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: after he won the championships, and they don't talk about

680
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: it when they talk about the Hall of Fame players

681
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: because he had a riff with David Stern about David

682
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: Stern told me, if he publicized that as much as

683
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: he did, that he wouldn't get the look that he

684
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: was supposed to get it. And that's why you never

685
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: hear about it. It's crazy. He used to get busy.

686
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: He's the fast all the time. He won two championships faster,

687
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: that's crazy. Huh. What what stands out to you? Obviously

688
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: you get a late start, but once you get going,

689
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: you know this is what you're supposed to be doing. What? What? What?

690
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: What do you remember the most about your high school

691
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: playing days? He was the biggest person in our class

692
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: and thought he was on steroids or some ship. Tim

693
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: like I remember saying Leicester earl. I remember seeing those

694
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: they weren't bigger than you not. I don't know, but

695
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: I was. I was stilling thought. But but I remember

696
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: I remember seeing Tim Thomas and I was like because

697
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: I heard a lot about him, and I was like, damn,

698
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: this my like to thirty and guards playing like a

699
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: guarden garden. But you wouldn't understand like back then we

700
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: didn't know about the motherfucker too. We actually saw them

701
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: face to face like you would hear or you might

702
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: be able to read about them in a little magazine,

703
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: but I wasn't reading, Like you didn't know about who

704
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: you was going up against until he was warming up

705
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: or seeing him at the tournament. Yeah. We actually the

706
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: first time I sold him, um was that a B

707
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: C D. And it was like I was like, damn,

708
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: he he is advertised, he can go. And that was

709
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 1: I think my real first AU experience was probably going

710
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: to Nike All America. I wasn't necessary games. It was

711
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: the camps where I remember Gelnnie McCoy was there. Um

712
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: it was Steph Garnett and I was like, holy just

713
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: the class before us. That was like damn, Like I

714
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: ain't never Bro. I'd never been outside of my city

715
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: at that point, so it's in Chicago. I'm like, damn, bro,

716
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: I need to I need to go get my ship

717
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: together like these boys can play. That was like the

718
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: first time I knew that I had to put in

719
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: some work because there was some real dogs, like were

720
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: we from you know, we're killing in our neighborhoods. Then

721
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: that's how measurements stick, right, right? Did you get outside

722
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 1: of your neighborhood and you realize that you damn you,

723
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: you really can't compete now unless you go put in

724
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: some work. And so seeing those boys really inspired me.

725
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: Man And and that was kind of like the kicker

726
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: for me when it came to a U. Who so

727
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: who who is? I mean, obviously I know your draft class,

728
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 1: but who are some of that the top cats? And

729
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: during AU during that run for you, could you guys

730
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: are the same year right fails, Cold Cold Baby, Shanne

731
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: Cotton Shake Cotton, Baron, Davis, Baron Dame was how that too,

732
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: but he was younger than us. Um Corey Benjamin for

733
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: Benjamin Why, I went for Walton Richard Richard Hamilton's head colder,

734
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: but Ronnie at the top was him Ronnie Fields, Kobe

735
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: and Tim Toomer maybe too. My baby is at the top.

736
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: Felipe Lopez older, he was the show, older than everybody

737
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: now he was he was ninety five, if I'm not mistaken.

738
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: So what went into your decision, um to let you

739
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 1: know you were ready to make the job, skip college

740
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: and make that job to the pro Honestly, I didn't.

741
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: I didn't know. I knew I wasn't physically ready. I

742
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: went to jail um my my senior year on a

743
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 1: statutory rate um charge um possible charge at the time,

744
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: I didn't know, which I think is important, especially for

745
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 1: the youth to understand this is that every state has

746
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: a legal age limit to have consensual consensual sex. Right now,

747
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: this girl I had been with for two years, my girlfriend, girl,

748
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: it's my girl girl right she was chillied on the

749
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: team and everything. I had not met her, pops crazy

750
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: thinking two years, I met mom, been over the house,

751
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: um sisters everything known. Story short. He comes home, I'm

752
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: over at the house, didn't catch us doing anything, just

753
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: caught me in the room. He hits her. I hit him. Uh,

754
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: stayed with the girl to the police game. He foul

755
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: um a charge of me and it became one of

756
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: those situations where we was trying to blow that ship up,

757
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: especially be in the South Carolina. And if you got

758
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: to know the history, like the Confederate flag was just

759
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: recently taken off the stay house, right, that was a

760
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: real thing. Um, where you grew up not understanding that

761
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 1: you can even date outside of your race, Like I

762
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: didn't even know I could. It was even cool until

763
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: ninety s when I got drafted to do so. Right.

764
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: And so if you living you're living in that ronment,

765
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: you're going through a situation where now, um, at the time,

766
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: I was number one player in the country, rights, I'm

767
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: in I'm in jail, and they're talking about giving me

768
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: ten years, right, and so you know, I go through

769
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: that whole process get reinstated. I finally get reinstated, um,

770
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: hyper extend. I need the first game back with all Patino,

771
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: NBA scouts, everything, um, and the Patino had a meeting

772
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: with us, me and my mom in my house. He said, look,

773
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: we love to have you, we canna be good with

774
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: you without you, but you probably go bro. Where was

775
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: he at at that time, Kentucky though, right, And so

776
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: that was like the moment where I knew, he said, Look,

777
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I know you're probably gonna listed

778
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: between tenth and seventeen. You're never gonna fall beyond seventeen.

779
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: At that point, I was so worn out, bro, And

780
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: I've seen opportunities starting to drift a little bit. Um

781
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 1: and you know, the whole idea of going to jail

782
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: and being heard and now people starting to question, you know,

783
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: should I even be a pro? Said let me go,

784
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: Let me go and make this money. I knew that

785
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: my determination and my mindset was built for physically. I

786
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: knew I wasn't I was only like two and a

787
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: seventeen pounds or something like that. Um, But that was

788
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 1: that was that was a decided factor. To be honest.

789
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: I got to ask you one question, though, I shouldn't

790
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: want a VP, right McDonald's. I just wanted all the

791
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: top players, you know, I just want to have from

792
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: on top. You know, I started five. I think I

793
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: think we had one of the best starting five Evan

794
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: McDonald's game history, Me and you, cold, Tim and Tim Thomas.

795
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: We couldn't added real Hampton, power and better, but Holloway

796
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: with me and you, she Holloway, Kobe and Tim Thomas.

797
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: But you remember they didn't start me because remember I

798
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: was in the hospital the whole week, right right, what's

799
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: what's the what's the big fella? Jason Carya not went

800
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: to North Carolina Hathaway, Russian by Sale after them all. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

801
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: he had to play the game to play the game. Yeah, yeah,

802
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: it was the dope. It's projected dope start. I didn't

803
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: start because I didn't make any thing with the one

804
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: practice and like the altitudo was too much. Yeah. Now,

805
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: obviously did you briefly dabbled if you thought about college,

806
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: who were something that the schools you thought about it was?

807
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: It was dound to UM, Kentucky, Maryland, Maryland was closely used.

808
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: Joe Smith. He was recruiting me to go to Maryland,

809
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: and that was one of my favorite players in college.

810
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: Shut up. He was a mom'star Um South Carolina where

811
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: I'm from. Clemson obviously been in South Carolina in Ohio state, UM.

812
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: But if I don't went to school, it would have

813
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: been to Kentucky because Kentucky had the pedigree to win

814
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: a national championships and putting players in the pros. He

815
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: decided to make the jump. You the seventeen pick for

816
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: the Portland Trail players. How come you didn't go to

817
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: the draft? Honestly, man, Um, you know back then when

818
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: you made the decision to go pro, you forfeited your

819
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: cole eligibility completely. So if I don't get drafted, then

820
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: I gotta go find a job, right. And so the

821
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 1: nervousness coming off all the stuff that I went through

822
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: my senior year, I was just like, bro, I need

823
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: to be I need to be home. I need to

824
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: be around people that that no mean that understand me,

825
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: you have that support me. And so I just decided

826
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: to stay and get a ballroom. Um. Shout out to

827
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: r and tell him who stood who stood beside me

828
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: the entire time? Who kept me calm? I knew back

829
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: then as a seventeen year I wasn't the easiest person

830
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 1: to keep calm, you know back then, But he became

831
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: like a pop to me. Man, So Um, you know

832
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: he understand how much he means to me and in

833
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: my entire career. I mean talking about that draft, that's

834
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: one of arguably the best draft classes, on one of

835
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: them ever. Uh. Kobe iverson Ray Island, stuff on mar Burt,

836
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: Steve Nash, Marcus can be uh Antoine Walker, M sharif

837
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: A do rahim yourself. Um, so that experience from high school,

838
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: skipping college, jumping to the pros but then back and

839
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: then people don't understand like there was real o g

840
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: s and real grown men back in the league back

841
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: in the day, like the real Vets. So what was

842
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: your experience like transitioning? Like you said, you may not

843
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: have been ready physically, you made the jump, you made it.

844
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: What was it like early on in your career because

845
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: you didn't get a chance to really play early on

846
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:29,760
Speaker 1: and experience though? Yeah, man, uh, the late great Cliff

847
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: Robinson to rest in peace. Gary Trent, I mean Gary

848
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: Trent was the first one. He came and got me

849
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: from the airport. Um taught me a lot of things.

850
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: Um she obviously Sabonis and the and the team's kind

851
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: of change, you know year over year, Debatlers Strom, Scottie Pippen,

852
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: I mean just kept going. Um. I was able to

853
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: take a lot of different ingredients from a lot of

854
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: a lot of players with this Kenny Anderson, dam Sodermar Gray, Anthony,

855
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: Brian Grant, Um bondsy Wells and they see all Man

856
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: j R. Roder. Um, it just kept going um on

857
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: and on, and it was really honestly for me, it

858
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: was the best place for me because it was a

859
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 1: one sports town city. But I didn't have the pressure

860
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: of a big city, right. They grew me as if

861
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: as if it was college, one on one, right, and

862
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: so every year I was able to kind of grow

863
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: and mature a little bit more. I remember Rick carl

864
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: I remember him coming to my house. People don't know

865
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: about this, but I was so salty because Gardnett and

866
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: Cole was getting an opportunity and I wasn't. And back

867
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: then that was when high school to the pros just started.

868
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: So the micro scope was like, you know, bearing down

869
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: on me. And you know people are say, oh, well

870
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: he's a bus you know, he couldn't not knowing that

871
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: I just wasn't getting the opportunity. And remember Rick carl

872
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: Out coming to my house and I wouldn't because I

873
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: stopped going to the games. This is your first year.

874
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,439
Speaker 1: So I was like, you know what, I ain't playing,

875
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: I ain't coming, ain't coming. So I remember talking to

876
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: him out here coming house. I put the chain on

877
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: the door and talked to him through this. He was

878
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: assistant coach. Carlson was the head coach. Um, But he

879
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: was the one that kind of walked me through this thing, man,

880
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: and became the guy that was just assigned to me

881
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: to make sure that I, you know, that I made

882
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: the right moves and man, and when I look back

883
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: at this now, you know, it wasn't the transition wasn't

884
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: as tough physically as it was mentally. Absolutely, what was it?

885
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: What was the turning point? When did you start getting

886
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: some time on the court with season? Was that for you? Man?

887
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 1: I went for I went four years of the roller

888
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: coaster up and down, But when I knew my third

889
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: year probably was when I knew because I started out

890
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: playing guys that were playing in front of me like

891
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: I was piste off all the time because at the

892
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: time Mike Dunleavy was making things incredibly hard for me. Right,

893
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: you know, I'm always there before there after you know,

894
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: I ain't played in the first two quarters. Put me

895
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: in the game in the third quarter for two minutes,

896
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, right, and so um that just pissed

897
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: me off and I just could to work harder. I

898
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: knew planning against sheet in them every single day in practice.

899
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: That's back then when we had to practice too but

900
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: it was the real. It was the real, you know.

901
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't no rest days, wasn't none of that stuff.

902
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: It was like he was practicing when you wasn't playing.

903
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: And it prepared me right away. And I knew, you know,

904
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: as going into my fourth year um which is old

905
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: Banana and the tail Pipe, I was a free agent

906
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: and decided to not to take a starting role either

907
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: with Orlando or Chicago and went back to Portland's. We

908
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: had just lost in the conference finals against the Lakers.

909
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: I said, well, we should we got a chance to

910
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: win it all. I'm gonna go back and then contribute

911
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: and it just didn't work out. That work out. Talk

912
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 1: to us about that experience with the Lakers of two

913
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: thousand Lakers come down the game seven? What was that series? Like? Man, listen,

914
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: I probably cried maybe twenty times in my life. Bro

915
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: had some big shots for this is your first real

916
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: taste of the NBA playoffs, right, so you made the

917
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: playoffs every year, but we're in the conference for so

918
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: that was the That was the I went back for

919
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: that reason and we were up fifth I think fifteen,

920
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: and like the stable center emptying out me and Bonds

921
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: on the bench, talking about when we're about to do

922
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: with you know, without with our bonus are NBA Finals

923
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: bonus checks and all this stuff, and then I think

924
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: Brian Shaw banked in fucking three and it was started

925
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: r started to run Bro And it was just to me,

926
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: it was just mismanagement of the team. Right, you play

927
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: these you play the guys through the process of this run,

928
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: and they make this run to you sub them right

929
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: with guys that ain't been playing right. And so it's

930
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: just one of those things where, um, A lot of

931
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: things went into us losing that game, but that was

932
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: the one that I was. I was remember sitting on

933
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 1: the bench. I told Bonds, I said, brother, this is it.

934
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: I ain't coming back, tears in my eyes, everything said.

935
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: But I'm going somewhere else, I said, because you know

936
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: this time is up. But that was the one that

937
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: really hurt us because that team was probably on paper,

938
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 1: the most talented team in the league. Bright We had

939
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: Steve Smith, Scottie Pippen, Brian Grant, she Wallace, a bonus

940
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:21,919
Speaker 1: BONDSI you me, uh, Damon Sodemer Uh he's super DP.

941
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: It's no way in here. We shouldn't won the championship.

942
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: One of the best teams never to win it. What

943
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: was that fourth quarter? Like the one that got away

944
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: from the Avacota, Bro, one of the twenty times that

945
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: I've cried in my life, I tell you, I remember.

946
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: I remember sitting on the bench literally tears coming out

947
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: of my eyes because you put so much into it, Um,

948
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: And as a young player, you know you I knew

949
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: that these opportunities don't come around. You know, I'm just

950
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: hearing all the O g s talk about it and

951
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to to ship to play in the

952
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: NBA finals, Bro, like you grew up watching that, the Jordan's,

953
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: the you know, the Magics, the Isaiah Thomas says, the

954
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: lad Birds, And it was just it was it was

955
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: a hard pill to swallow. But the good part about

956
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: it helped me understand what it took to be a

957
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: pro and to have the opportunity to get there. I mean,

958
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: looking back on it now, how dynamic were Kobe and

959
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: Shock And that was good dal On on the two

960
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: shots to hit at the answer, that was great defense

961
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: to He's still draining, man, you know obviously Kobe, you know,

962
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you'll know how we feel about him. Um,

963
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: He's one of the greatest. I think, to me, he's

964
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: more closer to Mic than anybody everybody's and he is

965
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: he is he was as a he had a dog

966
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 1: mentality that I was about winning, winning, winning, right, Shock.

967
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: People don't realize how big Shock is, Bro. I mean

968
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,439
Speaker 1: like it's like he was playing with like a little

969
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: tips ball all the time in his hand because he

970
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: was so big. But he he just changed the game, Bro,

971
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: And many times the league didn't know how to officiate

972
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: shot right. I mean, he was just that, he was

973
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: that agile he was. I don't know if we ever

974
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: see a specimen of a player like that ever again

975
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: a lot, because the game has changed so much and

976
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: he's incredible. Summer of two thousand, You're traded to Indiana

977
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: for Dale Davis kind of understanding that the business side

978
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: of it, what was that like for you? And I

979
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: remember I remember going into uh the Champs downtown and

980
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: I'm talking about these damn people were bad because they

981
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: just came out from finals appearance and they traded you know, Dale,

982
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 1: which is a fan favorite, for basically an unknown And

983
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: so I was challenging for me to hear people talk

984
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: about that in a in a bitter way, right um,

985
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: and obviously how people felt about Reggie and him winning

986
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: the championship, it was it was difficult, But Reggie mille

987
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: Is is one of my favorite teammates of all time

988
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: because he is he's he's a winner, right, He's a

989
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: winner in every aspect of the word. And he could

990
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: have easily debt at that trade easily trade for him,

991
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: trade me, He's like nah, bringing the young boy. I

992
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: remember remember having the conversation. He said, I'm gonna let

993
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: you be whatever you want to be as long as

994
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: you worked for He did the same for me. Reggie

995
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: did the same for me. Reggie is unbelievable, bro. He

996
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: meant so much too to me in my career. And

997
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: that's why that that brawl situation, I probably wanted to

998
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: win it more for him than it was for myself.

999
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: Right well, I think I think we all did because,

1000
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: like it, just a touch on what he said. They

1001
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: brought me in the next year, the year Reggie was retiring,

1002
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 1: and Reggie was basically stamping me as the person to

1003
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: fill in when he needs you know what I'm saying.

1004
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: So that year was especial for all of us, for Reggie,

1005
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: you know what, I mean, because we knew we had

1006
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: the team, you know what I mean, and to not

1007
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: do it wasn't It was a letdown. Even though we

1008
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: came back and still far in the playoffs. It was

1009
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 1: let down for all of us because we wanted to

1010
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 1: do it so bad. For Reggie, I mean, it was

1011
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,439
Speaker 1: crazy too that Reggie probably that situation was so bad

1012
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 1: that it forced him to retire. Reggie had probably two

1013
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: more years and really just a lot on that mental side.

1014
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: So you're coming into Antiana, are you you get the

1015
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: starting role or how does that? How does that work out?

1016
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: I came in right away, started one, most improved right away.

1017
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: I was fully prepared by all the work. Um an

1018
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: education I took from all the players in Portland. Um

1019
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: so I was. I was like, with it ain't nobody

1020
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see in front of me. That's been the

1021
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: ones that I've been playing practice against every day in practice,

1022
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: reminding people what the power forward game was, liking who

1023
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: was around back then? This is Duncan, kg Webber, Rashid,

1024
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: a young Dirk, a young you. That's fact when power

1025
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: forwards were a pivotal part of a team. Man. I remember,

1026
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: you know, like every night it was something like I

1027
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: remember every time I thought about like what I needed

1028
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,439
Speaker 1: to eat because I got KG and I'm coming in town.

1029
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: I got dirt, I got she see what sea where

1030
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: it was a monster. Um, people don't understand how good

1031
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: see where Man it was a killer. He was a killer, bro,

1032
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: and he was and he had everything man and um.

1033
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 1: It forced you to be the best version of yourself

1034
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: almost every night. And even like scenarios where I mean

1035
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: back then it was a grind. I mean, bro, you

1036
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: was like that post was a grind. I mean Ben

1037
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: Wallace and those guys, I mean theo Radlof and those guys,

1038
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: I mean her Oak was still in the league. But

1039
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: the game went through the post. Back then to the post.

1040
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 1: It had to test the post for any outside shots

1041
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: going up inside out with a little back brace. I

1042
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: had like a little like still plate that's to put

1043
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 1: in the people always complain about it because I always

1044
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: like to spend a ball phone saying like there's like

1045
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: that was us old back plate back there. But the

1046
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: game was different bright it was. It was there was

1047
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: a brind and I think the competitive nature where um

1048
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: kind of like the Pistons Pacer scenario. People really funk

1049
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: with each other, but on the court it was either

1050
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: you or me. It's a different league, different league, Bro,

1051
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: what no eight man call me, call me hi, I'm

1052
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: meeting none of that. We all in the court. So

1053
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: what was it like coming into that situation starting most

1054
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: improved player? You got a starting to put the ingredients together,

1055
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, after them going to the finals the year

1056
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: before the starting not not starting over, but trying to

1057
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: regain that. What was it like building that team back

1058
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: up what they It started with Isaiah Thomas. Um. I

1059
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: gotta shout him out to Zeke meant so much to

1060
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 1: me man and miss Thomas for all the meals that

1061
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: she cooked at our house. Um. He just always have

1062
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: us over talking about like history. Um. So he started

1063
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: the confidence in myself out Harrington, Jonathan Vendor, Jeff Foster, Um,

1064
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: and then Rick Carlisle came in and was able to

1065
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: put the ice in on the cake when we knew

1066
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: that we were ready to compete. And then obviously getting

1067
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: Jack um Ron Um Brad Miller. That was one of

1068
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: the worst things that the Pacers ever did was trade

1069
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: Brad Miller. Um. That was like my ace down there. Um,

1070
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 1: and we just knew Bro like you know, we hadn't

1071
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: been through it. Jack hadn't already won the championship with

1072
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: San Antonio. He knew exactly what it was. Well, people

1073
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: don't realize we had a different level of grit. Yes,

1074
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: could be taught. It was like, bro, we had all

1075
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: been through something. Oh man it was and it was

1076
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: so funny man that, um, we were so tight. I remember,

1077
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,360
Speaker 1: I remember, I gotta tell the story. Jack. I remember

1078
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: you got into it at the at the strip club.

1079
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: And so like I get a call from my nanny.

1080
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: It's like with two or three o'clock in the molock

1081
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: in the morning, like she's like, Jack dead. I said,

1082
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: what what you mean? It's like Jackson, he's dead. That's

1083
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: like he's at the hospital. So I'm a guy who

1084
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: told me what hospital was. So I rushed to the hospital. No, no, no,

1085
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: you met this. No no, you're skipping the whole part

1086
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: at the gas station. We met at the gas station

1087
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: right up the street from the club. First. The reason

1088
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: why I went to the hospital be remember I'm ready

1089
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: to can I'm ready to hurt somebody out of it.

1090
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: I didn't got back on and shake back. My lips

1091
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: are torn, teeth going everything I'm mad as him. Jam.

1092
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, we gotta find out way they go

1093
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,479
Speaker 1: Jackson jack I'm going I'm with all that. Bro, Listen,

1094
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: you got to go to the hospital. Because he was

1095
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: looking at my mom to my team was gone. He's like,

1096
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: and that's why I went to the hospital. As soon

1097
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: as you're saying that, my sides ends and started her

1098
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: because I all everything came down and I realized, and

1099
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 1: here the reason why I went to the hospital. You

1100
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: don't remember that. You came to the gas station, bro,

1101
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: like a couple of blocks up and you told me, like, no, bro,

1102
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 1: you have to go to the hospital. Bro. Listen, his

1103
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: face didn't even look real, bro, Like I remember seeing him.

1104
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if remember this. I first walked up,

1105
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: I just stopped. Remember I remember where I walked up,

1106
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: and so I thought it was in the hospital, but

1107
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: I guess it was at the gas station. And I

1108
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: looked in his face as pauls we gotta go get

1109
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: I said, like this your face, bro, His lips were

1110
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: so big, bro, And it was like one of those

1111
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: situations where like I knew he knew I was down

1112
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: for him, like whatever, but they stayed right there. I

1113
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: have to have plastic surgery on my lips. My lips

1114
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 1: were so swollen that they couldn't know them because my

1115
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:48,439
Speaker 1: lip was so big, and they would put down station,

1116
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: they would have burst him real called loud my wife

1117
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: at the town. They all stood right there and watched

1118
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: me have plastic surgery Bro for two hours. It was

1119
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: so bad, like almost forgot that I was a professional athlete,

1120
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 1: like we wanted to actually remember. I said, but first,

1121
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna need to take you to the hospital. First,

1122
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: you're gonna kill everybody. It was hot dog. Everybody was mad,

1123
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. But how it went down

1124
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: because I had nothing to do it. It was me

1125
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: again helping out one of my teammates, you know what

1126
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and me getting caught caught up, caught up

1127
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 1: in it. But to what he's saying, like they really

1128
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: wrote for me, Bro, because like I said, they didn't

1129
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 1: have to come to the hospital, you know what I'm saying.

1130
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 1: They stood there with me the whole time, and to

1131
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: a center and to the surgeon time. And I remember

1132
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: Bro when when he when he did the last stitch,

1133
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 1: because I was holding Rick call out hand and n

1134
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: at the hand the whole time squeezing because I had

1135
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: to fight the paint. He cut the last stitch and

1136
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: he put his hand on my chance and say I'm done.

1137
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: I told him, I say, and I went straight to sleep.

1138
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: I slept through X rays. I don't remember nothing. That

1139
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: that's to being home. That that that's when the night

1140
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,439
Speaker 1: baron called me. And that's a whole another story. But lucky,

1141
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 1: I gave you that pretty boy myth to get your

1142
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: your looks. Yeah, I hit that every day year, saying

1143
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: but if you come closer to my lips and I

1144
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: actually you would be like, man ain't goddamn. I don't

1145
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: know how you survived that. Before we go on, you

1146
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: mentioned the name that I don't think people understand how

1147
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: good he was too because he was young. How good

1148
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Bender? We stayed right by each other, so

1149
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: we talked about this all the time. John de Bender,

1150
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: he was set for talk. Can you compare him to

1151
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: anybody's game or what there was no one like him?

1152
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: How would you compare Jonathan to I would say he

1153
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: was a guard version of stroke mouth swift with handles

1154
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: and a three point ball and all that. We just say.

1155
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: I think athleticism. Yeah, but his game was significantly different

1156
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: because he can handle That's what I'm saying, shoot threes

1157
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: and all that that he can shoot it from deep.

1158
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: You know, he just there's a career cut short because

1159
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,439
Speaker 1: his knee. This is kind of auth thing. He's playing

1160
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: too many games and came in beat up. But I mean,

1161
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: that kid, if he had an opportunity, if it's this time,

1162
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: because he was a stretch four before stretch man, he

1163
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: wasn't even a stretch four though he wouldn't practice for

1164
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: thirty days. Hen come to practice one day and do

1165
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: something crazy and facts everybody like that's when he went practicing.

1166
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: All that. Keep in mind, heredcome practice one day and

1167
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: don't go somebody to do something crazy. Brother, Like, bro,

1168
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: this motherfucking healthy, it's over because he played the two three.

1169
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: He never he never played the four and went to

1170
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: the forest. We stayed because I stayed right across the

1171
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: state from jail, stayed around corners. We all stayed close

1172
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 1: to each other. But Jonathan Bender dog was so special.

1173
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: But as one player, if he could have stayed healthy, Bro,

1174
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,919
Speaker 1: what if I just think he was on the team

1175
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: that we had just matter we had him in the

1176
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: lineup right, That's what I'm saying. So, oh four, you

1177
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: guys reached the conference finals against Detroit. Uh talked to

1178
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: us about that series. That was jailball man. It was.

1179
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: It was probably one of the most physical series I've

1180
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: ever been involved with. Right, you knew what you were

1181
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: getting from the Pistons, right, right, So much respect for

1182
01:01:52,040 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: those guys. She been wiless, ripped chumps, Tayshawn Uh, Larry Brown, Um,

1183
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 1: they were just you know, we knew that it was

1184
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: the marginal air was was this was this slim and

1185
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: and you know it's funny it didn't show up in

1186
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: the day. I actually got taken out of the dog

1187
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 1: being talked about the reason that they were able to

1188
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 1: beat us because they were They were tight. They were

1189
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: more tight than we were, right, And so when you

1190
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: have a divide between me and Ron sometimes Jack, you

1191
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: know mad with Ron or you know mal jamaal. You know,

1192
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: it was a lot of different things elements going on.

1193
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: We were able to come and get the collectively as

1194
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: a team Indiana because we loved playing basketball, right, but

1195
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 1: to win it all I love playing basketball, ain't gonna

1196
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: ain't gonna do it. And so you know, we we

1197
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,800
Speaker 1: ran up on a Pistons team um that was a

1198
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: little bit more uh together, connected, didn't have as much

1199
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: talent that we had. They had a out of talent um,

1200
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: but they were just were a lot more connected than

1201
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:05,919
Speaker 1: were when you tried. You tried that the year because

1202
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:07,919
Speaker 1: that was the year before I got there, wheny'all lost

1203
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: to them in the in the East Conference finals. But

1204
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: when the year I come, when the year I came,

1205
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: next year, you made it a point. You tried your

1206
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 1: best to keep everybody together, going out to eat and

1207
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: doing stuff wrong. Was never around, but you tried. But

1208
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: as a quarter team, we were all together, you know,

1209
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: so we went everywhere together. But we did a lot.

1210
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you know, our wives, girls, all

1211
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: that stuff. We you know, those are the things that

1212
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: I started to kind of pick up little things right

1213
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: that I noticed the year before that. You know, I

1214
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: don't know if we thought that we were good enough

1215
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: to win. We knew we were talented. We looked up

1216
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 1: and we had the best record in the league, and

1217
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,439
Speaker 1: when the conference finals and it's like, damn, what we're here,

1218
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 1: and then when they beat us, you know, it was

1219
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: mistakes that we made, right, all of us. We made

1220
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 1: mistakes and then coming into the next year and we

1221
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: got Jack, we was like, should we gonna come, We're

1222
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: gonna come back to camp early. Time to go. It's

1223
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: time to go. And you know, that's the most disappointed

1224
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: because we probably should have one made to the championship. So, Jack,

1225
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: what's it like for you? Not really understanding what you

1226
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: were walking into, but ready to go. You know, the

1227
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 1: team that's coming off the conference finals, you could you're

1228
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: a key piece coming in that next year. What to

1229
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: like for you? It was difficult because I didn't understand

1230
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: the magnitude of robbery with with them in Detroit. You

1231
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,919
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I knew that I knew Jail,

1232
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And like I said, the

1233
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: first day that he embraced me, came to me, made

1234
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: me feel comfortable and and Reggie speaking U from itself,

1235
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: I was already comfortably. I knew a lot of people there,

1236
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: but I did not know the magnitude of the beef

1237
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 1: with with the Pistons. But I felt as soon as

1238
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: we walked in the arena the day of Braul happened,

1239
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: I felt that you like you can feel attention in there,

1240
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: But I felt the same way they felt, you know,

1241
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: me going to this team that's a player away. You

1242
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, piece, And I knew I was

1243
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: gonna be a big piece. And like we fo folks

1244
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: on championship, you know what I'm saying. The um And

1245
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: Mike Brown was my coach of San Antonio won the championship,

1246
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 1: so he was assistant coached there at the time. So

1247
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: I my Mond was taking championship the whole time. Just

1248
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: play my point and do what I can. I know

1249
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: it's in a serious conversation, but any funny practice stories

1250
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: with yourself, Ron with you many remember Danny Granger and

1251
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: then uh darn, I remember, like Ron is gonna get

1252
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: he leaving his house in the uniform. It's on the dock.

1253
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 1: But I remember we we're were on, We're on it.

1254
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: He getting mad, everybody getting mad. Like Jamal Tenson. He

1255
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: takes nothing serious. He's laughing at everything. Right, So he's

1256
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: about to start practice, bringing in one, two, three two

1257
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: doors about open Ron coming there with some Air Force

1258
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: ones on with some church docks with his uniform already on.

1259
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 1: And when I say he dominates practice, bro dominated practice.

1260
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: And that's not something needs to do. Not that warming

1261
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: up just short right for practice time in his practice uniform.

1262
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: He did stuff like that a lot. But I'm sure

1263
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: that's a part of the frustration because when he's locked in,

1264
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: you see his greatness and how integral he could be too.

1265
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: When the Champions, he was just so much stronger and

1266
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: bigger than any other player that's gonna play at this position. Um,

1267
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 1: he I'm not sure if he knew how good he was,

1268
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 1: like he he clearly and to this very moment, is

1269
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: the hardest working player I've ever been around now far,

1270
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: and it's not even close. He used to get on

1271
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: after the game. He used to get on. He'll play

1272
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 1: thirty eight party minutes. He's gonna get on the treadmill

1273
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: for another thirty after games. Yeah, he going like that.

1274
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 1: Basketball was his. To me, I felt like it was

1275
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: a safe place, right and he people that was playing

1276
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: against him was scared of him. Terrified bro Like we

1277
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: like we came around you guard him like we knew

1278
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 1: with Ron over that garden him and then we got Jack,

1279
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: so we had a dynamic defensively that it was just hard.

1280
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 1: It was anywhere at him at the four. And Jeff

1281
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: Foster was a great defense too. He was shutting it down.

1282
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: You get past me and are you gotta do? And

1283
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: that's back where you would lay motherfucker's down for a

1284
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: little bit, comes of the whole and knock them down

1285
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 1: and not get kicked out the game and to spend

1286
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: it for a week. So, uh, how me and Jack

1287
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: come into contact is in oh seven you you spoke

1288
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: on trying to hold things together. Letus hold it together.

1289
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: We got enough talent, We got what it takes. Pieces

1290
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: start falling off here and there, Jack and Al come

1291
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: to Golden State. You guys get done leaving Murphy And

1292
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 1: what was that like to you? Whether it to sign

1293
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: like okay, they gave up or what was your thinking

1294
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 1: that because of that? But I'm just saying, but I'm

1295
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: just saying, like as the All Star player and team

1296
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: still like what you're thinking, like, damn these motherfucker's and

1297
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 1: gave up or that? What was your thought process? They're

1298
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 1: having a choice, they had to do that, bro it

1299
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: was it was. It was tough. I knew when they

1300
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:49,920
Speaker 1: brought in and this is no shot to the other

1301
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: players they brought in, but they brought in players that

1302
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: are used to winning, right, have experience with winning with

1303
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: players who've never been to the playoffs before. So and

1304
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: we're still dealing with this the like like it was

1305
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: still a real thing. Uh. It did not help with

1306
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 1: the shootout that rides a year right after the brawl.

1307
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: So we're still dealing with the brawl. But votation and

1308
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,600
Speaker 1: all that. People who don't know the whole story. So

1309
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 1: when they're backtelling when Jack's lips full up, like this

1310
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 1: is the shootout at the strip club, right, yes, yes,

1311
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:24,920
Speaker 1: when I got hit by a car. Yeah, but then

1312
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,679
Speaker 1: and then also the shootout with with Jamal that was after.

1313
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: That was after the trade. That was the same guys,

1314
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: but that was after we left. Because when mc corky

1315
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: was in the car with Room, yes, the same dude

1316
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: that shout they didn't have something. This is nothing. This

1317
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 1: is how a great team that he was. He made

1318
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 1: sure that if he got a gun license, the whole

1319
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: team they came to my house, remember, and we all

1320
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 1: got our gun license together. So the whole team got

1321
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: guns and we registered though right legal, We all legal,

1322
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 1: right so bound, So we go it's a training camp,

1323
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: were going to strip club and men are actually leaving,

1324
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, because it time to go home.

1325
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: We've been out enough, and some guys something happened with

1326
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 1: Jama tend in the club where I had to end

1327
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: up going back and find my gun to get hit

1328
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,560
Speaker 1: by a car. Right, all that happened, you make it

1329
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: seem like that's just some little ship. I mean, yeah,

1330
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a big story, you know what

1331
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But maybe we'll do that doctor about that.

1332
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: But so that was the year after the brawl. So

1333
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:24,560
Speaker 1: during that time before that happened, we were all. I

1334
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: was on probation. She was on probation for the ball.

1335
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we always on probation for the brawl. So

1336
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: that made me vio late, you know what I'm saying,

1337
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,680
Speaker 1: probation And so my two years there, I get in

1338
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: the brawl, then I getting the shootout of stip Clubs.

1339
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: So Danny watch like god damn Al just stuck in

1340
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: the middle of it because I didn't do nothing to nobody.

1341
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: It was right after he just bought a house. But listen,

1342
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: it was right after the team just had a meat

1343
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: we had traded Kimp just had to beat about eight. Y'all,

1344
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 1: chill out, don't do this, don't go nowhere. Nothing in

1345
01:09:58,200 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: the whole team. We had traded Kim to go this

1346
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: rip club, the whole team. And like I said, once

1347
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 1: that happened, I remember, you know, two days after I'm

1348
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 1: trying to show up the practice, They're like, man, hell no,

1349
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: I mean, look at your going your ass home. But

1350
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: then the whole time they're trying to figure up a trade.

1351
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I had nothing to do

1352
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: with it. I don't even know if they talk to

1353
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:17,760
Speaker 1: you about it, but I knew they had a trade

1354
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 1: in the work says like, okay, just enough it just

1355
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: know we gott we gotta get a get this stuff

1356
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 1: cloud from over us and make it with some type

1357
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 1: of moves. So they had to do. I don't blame

1358
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: Donnie Washing. They still behind us doing everything though, you

1359
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, But I'm just too much. So yeah,

1360
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: they held too much. I think I think it was

1361
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: it was consecutive years, you know, we had to deal

1362
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 1: with you know, it was literally three straight years of

1363
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 1: always something. El was like the situation of Ron retiring

1364
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:46,839
Speaker 1: to rap, you know, the rap thing and Source Awards,

1365
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 1: Soorce Awards and all, and they were just always consistently

1366
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: something and they were trying to hold on because they

1367
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: felt like we can win the championship at it. And

1368
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: then when you start having shootout over with I don't

1369
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:01,759
Speaker 1: need to laugh, but it's crazy to think in the NBA,

1370
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 1: motherfucker's just heaven. This is not a shoot around. Out

1371
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:12,839
Speaker 1: guard your grill. It's not shooting around. So Jack and Alive.

1372
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 1: You hang around a couple more years, you make a

1373
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: few stops towards the end of your career. Um, what

1374
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: is that like? You know what I mean? You hit Miami,

1375
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 1: you hit Boston, you hit Phoenix, you end in Golden State.

1376
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 1: But what's those those final years like and what's your

1377
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:30,519
Speaker 1: mental like at that time? Well, it really started, um Again,

1378
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: Like like you said earlier, I don't really speak a

1379
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 1: lot about a lot of things. I kind of sit

1380
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: in my own element. Um. I end up tear mom

1381
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 1: and had a slight tear momaniscus. Um. What year was that?

1382
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:47,560
Speaker 1: This was right the year after the brawl, maybe the

1383
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 1: year after the year after that. I was shortly after

1384
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: and it was not diagnosed correctly, if you know what

1385
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Um, And that was kind of like the

1386
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: really the time where I felt like things were different

1387
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 1: with me physically Um, I end up doing it again.

1388
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: So back then, like, aren't used to aren't telling My

1389
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: agent used to have me send every you know, m

1390
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: R I took. I had sent it to him. So

1391
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 1: I ended up you know, taking another one and show

1392
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 1: that I ended up tearing it twice before it was

1393
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: diagnosed the first time. People don't people don't even know that. Um.

1394
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 1: And so my relationships um in the space and again

1395
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 1: I say this, and I say this respectfully because I

1396
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: absolutely love the Simon family that owns the Pacers. I

1397
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 1: love Indianapolis. Right, they gave me an opportunity to do

1398
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: things that is generational for my family, right, no question,

1399
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: right that relationhip. I'm still a little bit salty that

1400
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 1: the relationship is strained a little bit because of the brawl.

1401
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: But um, that situation was not handled right, and I

1402
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 1: had to do something different from my mental health and

1403
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,959
Speaker 1: stability because I was salty. Right, we had trade everybody.

1404
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 1: I'm out there, I'm by myself and trying to do

1405
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: you know, do all. I can't even have a chance

1406
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: to win the game, right, went from being the best

1407
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:16,560
Speaker 1: team in the league one of the best teams in

1408
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 1: the league too, at the bottom of trying to make

1409
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,600
Speaker 1: the playoffs, and so I knew from a respectful standpoint

1410
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 1: that my time was up. They had a young Danny

1411
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,599
Speaker 1: Granger you know, in Wing ready to go, and I said,

1412
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,600
Speaker 1: I went to them and said, look, you know, this

1413
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 1: relationship is is is reached, this expliration and I just

1414
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 1: need to go somewhere else. End up going to Toronto

1415
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 1: for a couple of months to get to Miami. UM

1416
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 1: playing with d Wade was was was fun. Um Obviously

1417
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 1: d Wade is d Wade learned a lot from him,

1418
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 1: UM KG and those guys. That probably was my hardest

1419
01:13:54,680 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: two years of my career because um one, my knee

1420
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 1: was still bothering me a lot. Um. It just wasn't

1421
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 1: a good fit, right, it was. It wasn't a good

1422
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 1: fit for me. Um. I don't know if I was

1423
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 1: a good fit for doc um, but we had an

1424
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 1: incredible team. I had a good time, you know with

1425
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,760
Speaker 1: those guys. But it just, you know, I believe that

1426
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:24,360
Speaker 1: I I was meant to go there because of my daughter.

1427
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: Right if we if I don't go to Boston, we

1428
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:32,640
Speaker 1: don't find the leak in our heart. Right And so

1429
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 1: that is to me, that was God's will and plan

1430
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: for me to go there because they had the best

1431
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:42,680
Speaker 1: children's hospital in the world in Boston. So end up

1432
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 1: spending there for two years. Cold calls me, Um, I

1433
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:48,640
Speaker 1: don't know how. I don't know how you found out

1434
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: I was having some issues with my knee and he said, man,

1435
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,040
Speaker 1: we gotta check out author con treatment in Germany. So

1436
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 1: we end up going to Germany. At the time, I

1437
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:59,640
Speaker 1: was I was so mentally out of it. I was

1438
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 1: just trying to finish my career on my feet that right,

1439
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 1: and end up going to Phoenix no expectations. Had a

1440
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 1: good time with them, and then Golden State. Obviously we

1441
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 1: know we all know what that city is and what

1442
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: was that young team like, because you got a glimpse

1443
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: on your way out of what was coming like right

1444
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:19,479
Speaker 1: before that dynasty started making their run. You were around

1445
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 1: that young team with coach Jackson, right, what was that

1446
01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:25,680
Speaker 1: team like that? Dynamical and clay and direct. It was

1447
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 1: rare bro where you know in our league, you know

1448
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: money is king, right, you know, people see contracts coming up.

1449
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: It was strange because all of those guys came in

1450
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 1: together right a year or two apart. Um. They were

1451
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 1: like this coach Jackson, you know, Mark Jackson did a

1452
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,400
Speaker 1: phenomenal job, but right away they work ethic. I'm like

1453
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 1: watching Steph and Clay before and at the games. I

1454
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,680
Speaker 1: remember watching steps shoot him and Clay to shooting and

1455
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 1: if it hit the rim, it didn't count. Right, they're

1456
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,439
Speaker 1: shooting a hundred threes right, And so when people seeing games,

1457
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: all you hear they does that ship like makes to

1458
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 1: hit the rim, don't care if he hit the rim

1459
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 1: and doesn't tell her free throw games like that, But

1460
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:08,840
Speaker 1: motherfucking three point shooting. That's crazy. But it's crazy. And

1461
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 1: then you're with young Draymond and you know, I remember,

1462
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with Steph and and and

1463
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 1: Steph can voucher that I said, Bro, I said, if

1464
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: you lead this team, bro, are you're gonna win m

1465
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 1: v P and y'all gonna win it all? I told,

1466
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:26,280
Speaker 1: I told class of Clay, I think you're the best

1467
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: two way player in the game right now, Bro, unreal.

1468
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 1: People talk about the shooting, but defensively, you don't even

1469
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 1: get credit for you don't make no the offense. If

1470
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 1: it's crazy to me how good he is on defense,

1471
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,759
Speaker 1: he doesn't get the respect he deserves. Just crazy and obviously,

1472
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 1: Draymond has been like my little brother, and we spent

1473
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about, you know, the league,

1474
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 1: talk about history, talking about you know, things that need

1475
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: to happen. And I was not surprised. I knew that

1476
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 1: they were gonna be good. I mean they were like

1477
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 1: this close the previous two years because we we had

1478
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:00,560
Speaker 1: that a lot of city team and I knew, like

1479
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: week with Battle with you guys, but this I was like,

1480
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 1: this team is young, this is it's gonna be their

1481
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 1: league in a matter of time. And it was our

1482
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 1: tough was to make the final decisions every time. I

1483
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: know I was pushed away, but you know, you you

1484
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 1: was able to, you know, playing long eighteen years and

1485
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,560
Speaker 1: walk out on your own terms. And what did that

1486
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:19,880
Speaker 1: decision feel like? They say, I'm ready, I'm aint going

1487
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 1: loup b I knew my last two years, my last

1488
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 1: year going to games was like it's the hardest thing

1489
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 1: I did. I had to do, like getting up on him, bro,

1490
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, I'm like sticking my head out

1491
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 1: to winning like a dog and let them win. Air

1492
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,599
Speaker 1: hit my face like it was it's taking me forever

1493
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,720
Speaker 1: to stretch and get loose for games at the time.

1494
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 1: My wife and kids didn't live with me to let

1495
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: the last two yeares stop working up. Yeah, some little

1496
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:53,479
Speaker 1: patches one day and like the next couple of games,

1497
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:55,680
Speaker 1: like he's super loose, he's just dug it all right, man,

1498
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 1: everybody to put them passes all that, everybody put one

1499
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 1: of the circle. I had to try everything possible to

1500
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: get right for the games bro, and I knew that

1501
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:14,639
Speaker 1: it was over for me because I didn't love playing anymore.

1502
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 1: Like again, my last two or three years was strictly

1503
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:22,640
Speaker 1: about walking out on my feet. That's it, like I

1504
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: I it was so my last five years was so

1505
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 1: hard physically, like I never like people talk about a

1506
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 1: c L S and all, but that meniscus. When that

1507
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,479
Speaker 1: meniscus is banged up and you can't grow it back,

1508
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:36,639
Speaker 1: you can't repair it. That's bone on bone, right, Your elevation,

1509
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:39,280
Speaker 1: your quickness, all that, all that ship is gone. And

1510
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 1: it was just more like I needed to be happy

1511
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 1: and respectful when I look in the mirror, right, that

1512
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:49,280
Speaker 1: was more. I didn't care about anything else, what nobody

1513
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 1: else said, just looking at the mirror. Are you happy

1514
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 1: how you ended it? And that's that was my thing

1515
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: now It was crazy because the Golden State trying to

1516
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: give me to come back twice. And I remember the

1517
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 1: next year because I wanted the next year, and then

1518
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 1: like I'm at home like this, remember because we beat

1519
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:08,680
Speaker 1: you guys in game seven, uh in in uh l a.

1520
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 1: And then the next year all came they came back

1521
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:12,600
Speaker 1: and win, and that was your last year. That was

1522
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 1: your last game, bro. Listen. After that game we lost,

1523
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 1: I went my wife was in the room. I went

1524
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: back in the room. I just laid on the bed.

1525
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: I said, that's it. It's like I said, I told

1526
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:24,760
Speaker 1: I said, she's like, what do you mean? I said,

1527
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm done. I had I had nothing left emotionally in

1528
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:31,679
Speaker 1: the game. UM. I needed I needed to give more

1529
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 1: back to my kids. So um eight years, bro, man

1530
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 1: of so much. UM it helped me be a better person.

1531
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 1: UM it prepared me if everything I think that I'm

1532
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 1: going through now and hopefully I can give back to

1533
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: my communities and things that I've I've been good at

1534
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 1: things I wasn't as good as and let them use

1535
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:58,920
Speaker 1: that as a tool. So you kind of saw you

1536
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 1: just said, you know, You're last five years were a

1537
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: mental and also physical Brian, when did you start thinking

1538
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 1: about what's next? I mean, obviously you you're comfortable. You

1539
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 1: you did a lot, but as intelligent as you all,

1540
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: I knew there was something that you were going to

1541
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:14,920
Speaker 1: be reaching for next. When did that start kicking in

1542
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 1: for you? When I told my meniscus, okay, I knew.

1543
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 1: I knew right away, I said, I said, just what

1544
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: they're talking about? Like he was just like, I keep

1545
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 1: like because you never had no surgery right just on

1546
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 1: his lips A minus surges like out of minusurgey when

1547
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 1: from winning down Protejays had money removal the way lout

1548
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: power of quotes, and uh, I had a broke broke

1549
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: my toe when I was planning protejacks and I had

1550
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 1: to get a bones, breads taken out much but not

1551
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:54,360
Speaker 1: that serious. But I had him. I had a meniscus,

1552
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:56,439
Speaker 1: so I told my meniscus. With the Lakers, went up

1553
01:20:56,479 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: for a rebound, got undercut and landed on my leg

1554
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:01,679
Speaker 1: and was I thought I'd just prayed my ankle, also

1555
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:03,800
Speaker 1: trying to shake it off. So I kept playing, trying

1556
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:05,560
Speaker 1: to shake it off the field call. The time I

1557
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 1: would go to the bench, I put a towel over

1558
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 1: my leg and then I take the towel off and

1559
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:10,560
Speaker 1: try to get up and my knees like this. I'm like,

1560
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 1: oh my god, Like what happened? What happened? What happened?

1561
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,639
Speaker 1: Like you tore something? Come to find out with my meniscus.

1562
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 1: But luckily they were able to go in and take

1563
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 1: the little piece out and then you know, six or

1564
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 1: eight weeks later he had been but he was in

1565
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 1: the hours. Just to credit them, we talk about how

1566
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 1: this smart is him and hours thinking businesses and stuff.

1567
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 1: We were in Yanda, like he had a club and

1568
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 1: like they were thinking after basketball, way before anybody else was.

1569
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 1: We think about that because like when we played, if

1570
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 1: that wasn't the talk in the locker room now you're

1571
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 1: talking about with now now the locker room and talk

1572
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: because I caught the end of it, what are you

1573
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:43,160
Speaker 1: investing in? This isn't like at this company collect That

1574
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 1: wasn't the conversation. We weren't talking about ship like that.

1575
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 1: So that's why I kind of want to know, you

1576
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 1: know what excess And that's why that's why I tell

1577
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 1: you I would never fall off because I got real friends,

1578
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:55,479
Speaker 1: the real brains. That's very smart to me that take

1579
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 1: him this motherfucker. I got him and I got I

1580
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 1: can never lose acts. But what was it like coming out?

1581
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 1: I mean, because Jack and I landed on our feet,

1582
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 1: never even thinking about doing commentary and funking with the

1583
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 1: media because we looked at media as the kind of

1584
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 1: the cops back when we play, like you don't even

1585
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: really want to tell them too much. But now we've

1586
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 1: been able to cross. So but what was your like,

1587
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 1: what was next for you? Think as you're coming towards

1588
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 1: the end, trying to you know, trying to figure out

1589
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 1: what the passion was, right, So I'm dealing with that

1590
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:23,639
Speaker 1: in a lot of stuff at this restaurants or whether

1591
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:27,880
Speaker 1: it's take businesses or kind of resort building and stuff

1592
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: like too. But um, like just making sure that I

1593
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: had a passion. I remember my first six months of retirement. Bro,

1594
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:39,760
Speaker 1: it was held. It's a lot, bro it was held,

1595
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 1: but I was like, what am I supposed to do?

1596
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: And I actually had ship going on, But it was

1597
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:49,480
Speaker 1: like I remember sitting in my office and like borderline

1598
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 1: felt depressed because I've been I played in the NBA

1599
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: half my adult life, right from seventeen to thirty five.

1600
01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 1: Feel that boy, you know that's ex sedative nature. You're

1601
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:05,599
Speaker 1: definitely missing. The biggest thing that I missed was the fellas, right,

1602
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:07,600
Speaker 1: because we can go back into the communities and we

1603
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 1: can have some great friends in Dallas, Um, but it's

1604
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: different because they don't understand what we are. Like in

1605
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,760
Speaker 1: many cases, we're dealing with the same situations about the

1606
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 1: family relationships, whatever it may be. And some people can't

1607
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 1: digest that. Right. They see, Okay, you got money, you're

1608
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:27,400
Speaker 1: living in like this, and like like what funk's wrong

1609
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 1: with you? Why are you mad? And why you say? Right?

1610
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: They don't get that, And so I missed the bus rides,

1611
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 1: the locker rooms, the plane rides. Um. I don't think

1612
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 1: nothing in life can ever replace that. That's the main

1613
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 1: reason why I did the Big Three though, for that brotherhood.

1614
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 1: You know a lot of a lot of guys weren't playing,

1615
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:47,040
Speaker 1: you know what about the game kicking with our brothers,

1616
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, out on the wing events, Like it was

1617
01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 1: just different. You know what I'm saying, Because like you said,

1618
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:55,559
Speaker 1: that's what we all have missed that Coarabnerie. All right,

1619
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:57,720
Speaker 1: we're coming down to the end, man, So first thing

1620
01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 1: to come to mind, we have our quick hitters, tough

1621
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:05,800
Speaker 1: at player matchup in your career, it could be a

1622
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 1: lot of Um. I would probably say dirt though, because

1623
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: he was able to shoot off either foot right, and

1624
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 1: he was set for tar and he kept it kept

1625
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 1: up here so you couldn't get to it. And here

1626
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,360
Speaker 1: he'd come down hard on you and just stop and

1627
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,800
Speaker 1: pull and pull right and you're still moving right, He's

1628
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 1: straight up and down. So I would say dirt. The

1629
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 1: whisk is probably the toughest cover, um that I've had

1630
01:24:28,640 --> 01:24:34,840
Speaker 1: that up. If you can go back and relive one

1631
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 1: night of your career, would it be then you have

1632
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 1: like a sixty point game we were together. If you

1633
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: got one game, you can relive when the game would

1634
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 1: have been ship probably the malice, Yeah, that crazy, Yeah,

1635
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:52,800
Speaker 1: I'd like to relive that again. Um, what would you

1636
01:24:52,880 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: do different? So honestly, I would have preferred for us

1637
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:03,640
Speaker 1: to have an on court fight with their pistons. I

1638
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: tried it, tried it a couple of times, took my

1639
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 1: shirt on square woo on it. Not you, Darren colemen,

1640
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 1: but anybody don't want to smoke with you. But that

1641
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:16,639
Speaker 1: I would have rather had the fight with them, because

1642
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: then you're talking about a two to five games suspension, right,

1643
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:22,640
Speaker 1: It's just a player of fight, right, and it does.

1644
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 1: It doesn't linger into seventeen years later and we still

1645
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 1: talked about the same then. R anybody but there anybody

1646
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 1: but Derrek Cole. When I did not want that smoke,

1647
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,600
Speaker 1: I know my weight class, they had a bunch of

1648
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 1: that chilling. Was trying to break it up, but she

1649
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 1: was trying to break it up. They was chilling. You

1650
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. When I squared up, when I

1651
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:43,640
Speaker 1: tried to squad with Lizza Haison, the coon was be

1652
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 1: lining to in front, in front, I'm like, no, I'm cool.

1653
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 1: I'm going yeah, No, no, j Are you plus four

1654
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 1: going to the black Top? Are you taking all time?

1655
01:25:55,200 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 1: J Uh? Isaiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Uh Shock Chest, cheap

1656
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 1: top five artists, Big Jay, z Uh, Kanye, whichever Kanye

1657
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 1: you won't Yeah, probably so I ain't away heartbreak Kanye.

1658
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:24,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go. Um, I'm gonna go

1659
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 1: Drake too, Um because I ain't heard Drake put up

1660
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 1: put out no bs? You know how many is that

1661
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:39,680
Speaker 1: right there? Um? Pop solid? Look he got emotional, you

1662
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 1: can say thinking about different five five Dinner guests dead

1663
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:55,840
Speaker 1: or alive. Damn y'all hitting me. Um Holly Berry. You

1664
01:26:55,880 --> 01:27:01,599
Speaker 1: should know how much I love Holly Berry. Um, damn uh,

1665
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 1: Really that's it, he said, Really, that's it. You got

1666
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:19,800
Speaker 1: five dog Hollyberry. You man, that might be the point

1667
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:26,720
Speaker 1: of ship we have for that Barack Obama, Um, Martin Luther, King,

1668
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 1: Malcolm X, Great Fox. Yeah, gonna get a dope. Last question,

1669
01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:40,720
Speaker 1: my brother appreciate you coming. Um, who do you want

1670
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 1: to see on all the smoke? Before you answering? You

1671
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 1: have to help us get your answer on the show.

1672
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:49,639
Speaker 1: I probably said Kanye who I don't we even loved

1673
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: to alcohol. You gotta go get him out the Georgia.

1674
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 1: Don sleep. We can't have a mask on because our

1675
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:57,120
Speaker 1: things got to say him not to give you got

1676
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:59,639
Speaker 1: the mask on just when that could be anybody. Yeah,

1677
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: you're gonna know it's Kanye Jo. Man. We appreciate what

1678
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:05,040
Speaker 1: we said earlier. Man, you're not You're you're a man

1679
01:28:05,120 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 1: in very few birds. When you speak, people listen because

1680
01:28:07,439 --> 01:28:08,840
Speaker 1: you know what you're talking about. But thank you for

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01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 1: your time today to luck with the project. I'm glad

1682
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: you're finally after seventeen years beat over to get your

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01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:16,160
Speaker 1: side of the ship out, so hopefully it'll rest, but

1684
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:17,760
Speaker 1: it's probably not gonna rest for me, and it's gonna

1685
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,599
Speaker 1: be a little wild after this documentary, I'm sure. But again,

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01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 1: man for your time and a real brother to me,

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01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:25,160
Speaker 1: My brother you know, well, I don't know the twenty

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01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 1: five years we've been knowing each other, so I appreciate

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01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:29,360
Speaker 1: you coming on the show and always holding me down

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01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 1: to bro. Yes, that's a wrap, all the smoke, Jamaine O'Neil.

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01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:36,360
Speaker 1: You can catch us on Showtime Basketball YouTube or on

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01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 1: the Heart platform Black Effects. This is all a smoke,

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01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 1: a production of The Black Effect and our Heart Radio

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01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:45,959
Speaker 1: in partnership with Showtime