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Speaker 1: Als media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to it happened here, a podcast that's about trade policy.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm your host, Via Wong. This is amazingly going

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Speaker 2: to be the fun one of all of these episodes.

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Speaker 2: It's about working tariffs, so it's gonna be a long week. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was the voice of the singular Garrison Davis, the

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Speaker 2: one the only Yes. Hello, I'm excited to hear about tariffs.

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Speaker 2: It's tariff talk here and it could happen here one

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Speaker 2: of my favorite favorite topics. I guess now, all right, Garish,

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Speaker 2: you're putting you on the spot. What is a tariff? Uh,

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Speaker 2: it's basically googling tariff. No, A tariff is when Trump

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Speaker 2: says China's bad, so he makes China pay extra money

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Speaker 2: to sell their goods to Americans, and luckily China pays

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Speaker 2: for all of it, and the American consumer gets off

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Speaker 2: with a boot sting economy. That's at least what I've heard. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately for every one, I don't know, I guess I

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Speaker 2: guess there's some acceleration this. Two are probably really excited

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Speaker 2: about this, most certainly.

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Speaker 3: But the way this actually works is Okay, So the

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Speaker 3: government sets up a tariff and that means if anyone

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Speaker 3: is bringing a good into the US, they have to

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Speaker 3: pay the tariff on it, and that money goes to

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Speaker 3: the government. So okay, that There's been a long history

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Speaker 3: of tariffs in the US. This was a huge domestic

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Speaker 3: policy think, particularly in the eighteen hundreds. That's really fucking boring.

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Speaker 3: The incredibly short version of it is that the thing

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Speaker 3: about tariffs is that, especially like tariffs on a specific sector,

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Speaker 3: is that they're good for you manufacturing that thing kind

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Speaker 3: of mostly, and they're bad for anyone trying to buy

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Speaker 3: that good because it's now more expensive. So Trump's plan,

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Speaker 3: and we're going to get into a bit more detail

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Speaker 3: about this, because there's parts of Trump's tariff plan that

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Speaker 3: everyone seems to have forgotten about for some reason that

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Speaker 3: I don't know why they've forgotten about.

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Speaker 2: But the basic plan is to impose something like a

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Speaker 2: ten to twenty percent tariff on all goods that enter

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Speaker 2: the US from anywhere. There's specifically one for Mexico, but

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Speaker 2: the numbers on what the Mexico tariff is changes every

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Speaker 2: time he opens his mouth. Sometimes it's like twenty five percent.

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Speaker 2: There's one where it's like two hundred and fifty percent,

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Speaker 2: of course, two interchangeable percentages. Yeah, and then for China,

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Speaker 2: it's supposed to be a tariff of somewhere between sixty

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Speaker 2: sixty percent is the most commonly sided number. But he's

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Speaker 2: also set one hundred percent tariff once again basically the

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Speaker 2: same thing. Yeah, and so you know, part of what we,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately the rest of us who live in the normal world,

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Speaker 2: have to do is figure out what is actually going

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Speaker 2: to happen if we get, for example, twenty percent tariffs

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Speaker 2: on all goods entering the US and a sixty percent

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Speaker 2: tariff on goods from China. So the first thing you

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Speaker 2: need to understand. I think most people kind of get

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Speaker 2: this now. But the thing about a tariff is that

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Speaker 2: you pay for it. So the way that it works

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Speaker 2: in general is that this is just an additional cost

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Speaker 2: for the company that's doing it, that's doing that like

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Speaker 2: moving the good around, right, and so they are almost

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Speaker 2: always going to just pass that cost directly on to you. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: sometimes we've talked about pricing, the way that pricing works

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Speaker 2: a lot on this show. Companies tend not to want

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Speaker 2: to raise prices, largely because of their effects on consumer

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Speaker 2: happiness and brand loyalty. And stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: So sometimes people will just eat shit on it. But

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Speaker 3: if you're talking about a sixty percent tariff, like you,

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Speaker 3: the sixty percent tariff is going to be paid for

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Speaker 3: by you.

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Speaker 2: So that means that anytime we buy something that's either

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Speaker 2: from Mexico or China or any of the other countries,

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Speaker 2: that this will be applied to the easiest way for

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Speaker 2: these for these companies to get around the tariff is

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Speaker 2: just to pass off the cost to the consumer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's actually worse than that because and this

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Speaker 3: is something I don't think people really understand when you

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Speaker 3: think about global trade, right, people tend to think about

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Speaker 3: trade as something that happens between countries, and this is

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Speaker 3: something that was an old you know dream, like the

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Speaker 3: anti globalization movement. People sort of understood this and kind

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Speaker 3: of don't now. Trade doesn't actually really happened between countries.

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Speaker 3: Most trade is one company, an international company, moving a

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Speaker 3: resource from one country to another. Right, So, like trade

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Speaker 3: is fucking Amazon moving something from a warehouse in one

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Speaker 3: country to a warehouse in a second country.

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Speaker 2: Right now. I've seen a lot of people and this

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Speaker 2: ranges from like very very serious sort of you know,

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Speaker 2: news sources and economists trying to sort of just directly

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Speaker 2: model what the price increases are going to be have

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Speaker 2: since people be like, oh, your shirts are going to

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Speaker 2: cost sixty percent more, or physical video games will stop

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Speaker 2: existing because they're too expensive, and who gives a shit?

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Speaker 2: Why are we even trying to do sectoral modeling of

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Speaker 2: the impacts of this. If you try to impose a

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Speaker 2: sixty to one hundred percent tariff on goods from China

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Speaker 2: and a twenty percent tariff on all goes into the country,

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Speaker 2: the economy will collapse. I don't know why everyone is

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Speaker 2: pretending that this won't fucking happen. We're going to get

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Speaker 2: into it a second. I guess the reason why people

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Speaker 2: are pretending this is happening because the way they're doing

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Speaker 2: the modeling kind of assumes that it won't, which is baffling,

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Speaker 2: incomp handsible nonsense. Well, and that's especially amusing because the

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Speaker 2: seemingly biggest issue this year around politics has been inflation,

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Speaker 2: which has impacted every country around the globe. The US

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Speaker 2: is actually whether it decently well, although there's been a

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Speaker 2: catastrophic failure in communicating that and listening to the actual

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Speaker 2: complaints from people on how they're still struggling with rising inflation,

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Speaker 2: but still a big reason why Trump was elected is

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Speaker 2: because he simply is not Joe Biden, and he's not

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Speaker 2: from the Biden Harris administration, and there's this perception that

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Speaker 2: he will be able to fix the economy, he will

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Speaker 2: be able to get around inflation lower prices, when seemingly

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Speaker 2: his main economic proposal will lead to what's probably going

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Speaker 2: to be an economic collapse if it happens in the

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Speaker 2: brutality of which he proposes. And there's another element of this,

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Speaker 2: right when I say that the likely result of Trump

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Speaker 2: actually trying to implement his tariff policy is a global

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Speaker 2: economic collapse, there's another part of this that everyone seems

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Speaker 2: to have forgotten. And I don't know why they've forgotten this.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's because nobody he actually reads any of

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Speaker 3: the things that Trump puts out on his website.

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Speaker 2: Which is true. No one actually reads that stuff. It's nuts,

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Speaker 2: especially his own supporters. Yeah, a majority of his own

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Speaker 2: supporters do not pay attention to like Daily News.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and now I remember this because I did an

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Speaker 4: episode about these tariffs, like like six months ago, and

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Speaker 4: one of the things about this, he has a thing

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Speaker 4: called Agenda forty seven, right, which is his agenda for

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Speaker 4: what he's going to do when he takes.

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Speaker 2: Power, which no one has cared about. And now everyone

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Speaker 2: is going through and posting policy proposals from like fucking

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Speaker 2: two years ago with the headline breaking news Trump announces

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Speaker 2: new plan, Like, no, he hasn't. This is our old plans.

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Speaker 2: This stuff is like two years old. He's been openly

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Speaker 2: talking about all that. Yeah, frages, And one of the

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Speaker 2: important parts of this, I'm just gonna read this quote

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Speaker 2: because it is a part of this has been ignored

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Speaker 2: by every single fucking analysis I've seen, from like fucking

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Speaker 2: the Center for American Progress, who obviously we're gonna screw

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Speaker 2: this up, to like Stamford's labs, Like everyone who's been

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Speaker 2: writing about this has just ignored this part, which is

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Speaker 2: quote as one of his top economic priorities, President Trump

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Speaker 2: will stop the flow of American jobs overseas by passing

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Speaker 2: the Trump Reciprocal Trade Act. Under the landmark legislation, if

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Speaker 2: any foreign country imposes a tariff on American made goods

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Speaker 2: that is higher than the tariff imposed by the US,

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Speaker 2: President Trump will have the authority to impose a reciprocal

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Speaker 2: tariff on that country's goods. Okay, So what this would

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Speaker 2: do again is that any country that has a tariff

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Speaker 2: already or imposes a tariff. And this is important if

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Speaker 2: we get into a trade war where countries start imposing

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Speaker 2: tariffs on each other in retaliation for their other terrorists,

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Speaker 2: which is what happens when he did this trade war

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Speaker 2: with China in like twenty eighteen twenty nineteen. That means

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Speaker 2: that we're also going to impose a tariff, which means

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Speaker 2: that the tariff rates don't stay at ten to twenty percent,

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Speaker 2: they cyclically spiral upwards. That's just like an escalating series

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Speaker 2: of terroriffs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the thing is right, the policy process that

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Speaker 3: they have on his page are like, well, okay, we're

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Speaker 3: going to do this, do like a presidential Act, right,

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Speaker 3: But the thing is the president actually has really, really,

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Speaker 3: under a number of different acts, has extremely wide discretionary

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Speaker 3: authority to set tariffs as long as he can basically

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Speaker 3: sort of like cobble together.

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Speaker 2: There's some kind of bullshit excuse.

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Speaker 3: For it, and at that point you're lying on the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court to stop literally anything that Trump does, Like

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Speaker 3: I don't give a shit, Well, I mean I don't know,

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Speaker 3: maybe someone will like go up to like can Clarence

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Speaker 3: Thomas and go like, hey, if we do this like

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Speaker 3: importing new like windshield wipers for your RV is gonna

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Speaker 3: cost ten million dollars more or whatever. But like there's

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Speaker 3: there's no shot of this stuff getting stuff. And the

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Speaker 3: thing is right, the reciprocal tariff stuff. He could just

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Speaker 3: do this through his existing Terriforf authority. He doesn't actually

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Speaker 3: even need to pass upthing through Congress. Who's actually be

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Speaker 3: I think tricky for him, but he doesn't need to

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Speaker 3: do You.

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Speaker 2: Know what we need to do right now, Tomia just badly,

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Speaker 2: badly cut to a bunch of companies that are going

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Speaker 2: to be absolutely fucking eviscerated if this goes through. That's right,

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump stands for anti capitalist action. He's going to

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Speaker 2: destroy free trade. So enjoy these ads when you still can. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we are back Miah. Let's hear how Trump is going

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Speaker 2: to perfect the capitalist economic system by a series of

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Speaker 2: escalating tariffs that will destroy the economy and in doing so,

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Speaker 2: but about in the opportunity for Marxist to size power

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Speaker 2: and change the world economic system. Yeah, so I'm going

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Speaker 2: to read another quote from that same agenda forty seven thing. Quote.

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Speaker 2: For example, food items like cereals, your other preparatory goods

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Speaker 2: are tariffed at thirty two point nine percent by India

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Speaker 2: and nineteen point five percent by China and only three

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Speaker 2: point one percent by the US. India applies a tariff

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Speaker 2: of twenty five point three percent on transportation equipment, while

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Speaker 2: the US only terrorists goes at two point nine percent. Now,

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Speaker 2: those exact numbers are debatable, but it doesn't matter because

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Speaker 2: these these are going to be vibes based ones, based

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Speaker 2: on how pissed off Trump is at a country. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: as Trump is usually a vibes based guy. Yeah, especially

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Speaker 2: when it comes to the economy, especially when it comes

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Speaker 2: to like these numbers he's pulling out like between sixty

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Speaker 2: to one hundred percent. He doesn't know what any of

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Speaker 2: those numbers means. He's just thinking of a number and

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Speaker 2: saying it out loud.

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Speaker 3: And the thing about all of these things, right, even

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Speaker 3: just the base twenty percent, or let's let's go to

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Speaker 3: the lowest numbers he's talked about, which is a ten

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Speaker 3: percent tariff on all goods and a sixty percent tariff

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Speaker 3: on Chinese goods. Right, that in and of itself blows

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Speaker 3: a smoking crater in the world economy. And none of

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Speaker 3: the assessments that you will read are talking about this.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that they will mention that is true,

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Speaker 3: but they're not, you know, getting to the importance of

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Speaker 3: is that this affects stuff that's made in the US.

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Speaker 3: Because the thing about things that are made in the

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Speaker 3: US is that they're made from components that are from elsewhere,

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Speaker 3: because that's how international supply chains work.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, even though we have, through tariffs, moved all

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Speaker 2: manufacturing of Toyota into the United States, you're saying that

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Speaker 2: still some of the materials are not all solely made

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Speaker 2: him produced within the country, and it actually requires unfeign trade. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and part of the problem I think of, like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: so if you logically think out the conclusions of what

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Speaker 2: that means, right, Okay, first mistake, Abia that you're trying

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Speaker 2: to solve this problem through.

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Speaker 3: Well, but here's the thing, right, Obviously Trump is not

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Speaker 3: going to think through this, right, But I kind of

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Speaker 3: expect people who are like writing about this for a

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Speaker 3: living to do mildly better than this.

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Speaker 2: And possibly some of the people that he like hires

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Speaker 2: onto his cabinet and team. Maybe, but we'll.

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Speaker 3: Say, you know, I'm not talking about like his critics.

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Speaker 3: Oh sure, sure, one of the numbers will see all

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Speaker 3: the time. The Center for American Progress has this line

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Speaker 3: of how the terrofts will function as a tax that

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Speaker 3: costs the America you conceive for like seventeen hundred dollars

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Speaker 3: a year.

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Speaker 2: Right, which was the line that Kamala used pretty often. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: framing his tariffs as like a sales tax.

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Speaker 3: This is fucking horseshit. The only way you can think

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Speaker 3: that the net effect of this would just be a

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Speaker 3: seventeen hundred dollars tax is if you don't understand how

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Speaker 3: the economy works at all. Right, So I went there

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Speaker 3: and read this, and the way that they model it

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Speaker 3: is just by like they find the like net dollar

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Speaker 3: value of imported goods and then apply a tax to it,

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Speaker 3: and then try to figure out like how much of

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Speaker 3: those goods that the average person would buy in a year,

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Speaker 3: and then increase the price. But and this is something

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Speaker 3: that's very at the end of the analysis, right right

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Speaker 3: at the very end, there's little section where they say

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Speaker 3: that they assume this would have no other effects on

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Speaker 3: the economy. This is unbelievably fucking stupid. I can I

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Speaker 3: emphasize enough?

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Speaker 2: Can you explain why that doesn't make any sense? So? Okay,

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Speaker 2: So here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: Right, prices go up, now people can buy less things.

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Speaker 3: What does that do to the economy, Well, it slows

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Speaker 3: its growth rate. Right, companies start to go out of business.

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Speaker 3: And we're gonna get me into more of the ways

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Speaker 3: that this plays out in a second. Right, But a

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Speaker 3: bunch of a bunch of people in a bunch of

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Speaker 3: places fucking lose their jobs because suddenly the reduction and

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Speaker 3: consumer demand means that there's a fucking reduction necessary production.

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Speaker 3: And this has cyclical effects throughout the entire economy as

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Speaker 3: more and more people fucking lose their jobs.

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Speaker 2: And also, you know the thing, the thing about those

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Speaker 2: people who lose their jobs is that that also fucking

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Speaker 2: reduces demand because those people are now even less able

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Speaker 2: to afford the stuff that's been increased by inflation prices,

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Speaker 2: and this this spirals through the entire world economy. In

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Speaker 2: order to.

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Speaker 3: Understand what exactly this is going to do, I think

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Speaker 3: we need to understand why, you know, because like if

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Speaker 3: Kamala Harris, I don't know if it makes any difference

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Speaker 3: in the election. But Kamala Harris walks of the stage

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Speaker 3: and says this is going to cost you seventeen hundred dollars.

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Speaker 3: She does not walk on the stage and say this

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Speaker 3: is going to cause an economic collapse, right. And I

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Speaker 3: think the reason that happened is because we've gotten into

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Speaker 3: this place where nobody fucking understands how the economy works

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Speaker 3: at all, in a way that's even worse than it

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Speaker 3: was even in like the twenty tens. Like in the

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Speaker 3: twenty tens, I think people sort of had a vague understanding.

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Speaker 3: The thing that was happening to the economy was uberization,

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Speaker 3: whatever you call it, was the expansion of gig work. Right,

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Speaker 3: There was sort of an understanding and a focus on

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Speaker 3: the very sort of low level parts of the economy,

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Speaker 3: like what are you a poor person doing for your job?

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Speaker 2: Right? Does how does your income work?

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Speaker 3: And not purely on these sort of like high finance

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Speaker 3: or in the case in the case of what's been

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Speaker 3: happening here, everyone has been unbelievably completely focused on like

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Speaker 3: the Chips Act and like state led industrialization and all

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Speaker 3: that stuff is fucking bullshit. It's it basically hasn't done

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Speaker 3: anything yet, it's not going to do anything for like

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Speaker 3: a decade, and it's not mostly what's going on in

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Speaker 3: the economy. I've been holding my tongue on this for years,

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Speaker 3: but the people who have been writing about the economy

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Speaker 3: don't understand how the fuck it works because they've been

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Speaker 3: completely myopically obsessed with the idea that we're in this

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Speaker 3: new era of state capitalism and no like the actual

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Speaker 3: thing that's been happening in the economy. And I think

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Speaker 3: if you are like a person who buys stuff, you

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Speaker 3: probably understand this. But for some reason this has never

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Speaker 3: made it to like economists or like people who fucking

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Speaker 3: write about the economy for a living. Is consumer to

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Speaker 3: manufacturer sales. So this is stuff like Temu. This is

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Speaker 3: stuff like san who she I mean invented It's a

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Speaker 3: strong word, but they're one of the first people who

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Speaker 3: sort of popularized this model, right, And this is the

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Speaker 3: thing where you have a platform that lets people like

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Speaker 3: nominally buy directly from the factories or from you know,

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Speaker 3: the people who are producing fruit, right, And these factories

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Speaker 3: aren't producing goods until basically either people order the goods

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Speaker 3: or like analytics tells them to order it, so they

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Speaker 3: don't have a lot of the problems that other kind

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Speaker 3: of like distribution bottels have. For you have a bunch

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Speaker 3: of good sitting in a warehouse, like, you just don't

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Speaker 3: have that because you don't start production until your sort

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Speaker 3: of orders.

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Speaker 2: Come in, your analytics come in. And the theory here

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Speaker 2: is you can reduce costs by eliminating the middleman. But

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Speaker 2: of course a new kind of middleman emerged, and that

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Speaker 2: is the drop shipper god. So the drop shipper is

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Speaker 2: just someone using the consumer to manufacturer pipeline right the

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Speaker 2: platforms that are supposed to let you the consumer sort

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Speaker 2: of just like buy directly from the thing and cut

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Speaker 2: out milmen. It's just someone doing that but then turning

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Speaker 2: around and selling you the result. And this has become

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Speaker 2: just utterly fucking ubiquitous in the American economy. It's sort

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Speaker 2: of like an integral part of the American scam economy

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Speaker 2: now too, as the American economy has been increasingly sort

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Speaker 2: of riddled and consumed by scams and riddled and consumed

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Speaker 2: by sort of like people trying to capitalize on like

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Speaker 2: some fucking meme or some political thing.

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Speaker 3: You know, you have all these people doing like drop

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Speaker 3: ship t shirts right where they can immediately come in

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Speaker 3: and sell all of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: These like short lived like trend meme based either like

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Speaker 2: fashion or even like goods. You know, you can talk

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Speaker 2: about like the amount of like content creator merch that

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Speaker 2: is all funneled through these like drop shipping companies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's also what's been It's a thing that's

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Speaker 3: enabled like fast fashion to function.

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Speaker 2: In the way that it is right now, right absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And this has become what consumption is in large swaths

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Speaker 3: of the world is from this sort of like direct

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Speaker 3: to consumer drop shipping shit, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Now, the thing about about these drop shipping things is

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Speaker 3: that their profit margins are really really low. They don't

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Speaker 3: make that much money, and in fact, a lot of

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Speaker 3: these things like hemorrhage money until they've basically you know,

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Speaker 3: they do the thing that Amazon did, right, where like

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Speaker 3: you lose money for a million years, but then eventually

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Speaker 3: you have enough market chourney you start making money again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you make it so all your competitors basically

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Speaker 2: can't function because you have prices that are so low.

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Speaker 2: And then when you're the only one in the game

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Speaker 2: with a sizeable power influence, you can raise prices and

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Speaker 2: then you make tons of money. Also the Uber model,

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Speaker 2: although Uber still is improfitable. Yeah well so yeah, Uber

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Speaker 2: will never make any money. Right.

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Speaker 3: But the other thing here that's important is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: so the margins of a company like Temu, right, which

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Speaker 3: is like probably the biggest of these sort of companies.

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Speaker 2: Now, are low. But Tamu technically has tech money, Like

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Speaker 2: they have money to back them up. Right, you know,

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Speaker 2: who doesn't have an unbelievable amount of just like capital

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Speaker 2: sitting around that they could just instantly pull from if

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Speaker 2: suddenly there is I don't know, a sixty percent fucking

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Speaker 2: price shock. Oh wait, it's all of the fucking manufacturing

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Speaker 2: you know, like tiny manufacturing firms that these drop shipping

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Speaker 2: things use to produce all their stuff. Right.

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Speaker 3: That infrastructure is very fragile. It's it's margins are very bad.

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Speaker 3: And oh guess what happens to that shit if you

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Speaker 3: impose sixty percent terraces on it?

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Speaker 2: Right, it just shuts down because that's the easiest option, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, and presumably I think one of

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Speaker 3: the other parts of this would be part of the

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Speaker 3: reason that this has been happening is that all of

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Speaker 3: this office are being imported like under terriff loopholes, but

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Speaker 3: like that loopholes not hard to close, right.

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Speaker 2: What terraf loopholes are you referring to? Oh yeah, so

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Speaker 2: I talked about this the ten we episod. So those

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Speaker 2: loopholes on American teriffs were like, if you're bringing stuff

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Speaker 2: into the country that's below a certain value, it has

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Speaker 2: to be above like a six hundred dollars something to

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Speaker 2: like trigger a threshold to like activate the teriffs applying

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Speaker 2: to it. So people just ship a bunch of like

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Speaker 2: one billion boxes individually that are like five hundred and

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Speaker 2: ninety nine dollars to go under the thing. So you're saying,

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Speaker 2: I can still maybe buy my new Sonic the Hedgehog

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Speaker 2: PS five game though, that should be fine. I'll be

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Speaker 2: totally good. Oh god, okay.

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Speaker 3: So the other part of this that's important, right, So

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Speaker 3: this is the kind of I don't know if news

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Speaker 3: the right word, but this is the kind of recent

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Speaker 3: part of the economy that's incredibly dependent on Chinese supply chains, right,

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Speaker 3: that gets just liquefied if these terrorifts go through. These

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Speaker 3: are enormous companies that you know are going to just

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Speaker 3: eat shit and those companies eating shit have the sort

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Speaker 3: of effects we talked about earlier, right, which is it

402
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Speaker 3: caused people to get fired, it causes growth collapses, it

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Speaker 3: causes cyclical decreases in people's ability to buy thing, and

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Speaker 3: then also like demand decreases because people can't buy things.

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Speaker 2: But this is like the new school supply chain stuff. Right.

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Speaker 3: Temu's a product of really the last six or seven years,

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Speaker 3: and it really only functions the way it does now

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Speaker 3: in last about four but the previous two eras supply

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Speaker 3: and logistics, right, which is sort of Walmart and Amazon

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Speaker 3: are both also almost completely dependent or Chinese supply chains.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a good JD super article which is they're

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Speaker 3: like a business intelligence website, right. You know, it talks

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Speaker 3: about how Walmart imports seventy percent of all of it's

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Speaker 3: goods from China.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that tracks seventy percent seven zero, right. And the

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Speaker 2: reason that it works like this is because Walmart's entire

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Speaker 2: business model, all of their supply chains, all of their logistics,

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Speaker 2: everything that they do, right, was designed basically hand in

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Speaker 2: hand to be integrated into Chinese economic production. And you

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Speaker 2: can't just move that shit instantly. Right.

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Speaker 3: And this is also true, something like Amazon right, where

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Speaker 3: Amazon like sixty three percent of independent sellers on Amazon

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Speaker 3: this is from the same source are Chinese. Right, So

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Speaker 3: what you're dealing with is vast parts of the American economy, right,

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Speaker 3: the parts of the American economy that you interface to

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Speaker 3: buy things are based on goods that are suddenly going

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Speaker 3: to have like sixty to one hundred percent tariff stapled

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Speaker 3: onto them. Now, the thing that people have been talking

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Speaker 3: about as the like, oh well, here's the thing that

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Speaker 3: will happen instead instead like instead of the thing that's

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Speaker 3: pretty obviously going to happen if this happens, which is

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Speaker 3: just the decount of bubble we're in pops and everything

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Speaker 3: starts to go to shit, people have been like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: this will just accelerate the shift of production of goods

436
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 3: out from China. And like I've been talking about this

437
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,919
Speaker 3: for like a fucking decade, right, Like the journal Chwung

438
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 3: is something that I talk about a lot that I record.

439
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 3: People really has been talking about this for literally ages

440
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,479
Speaker 3: and ages and ages. So people have been trying to

441
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,199
Speaker 3: move production out of China for ages. I mean, like

442
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 3: one of the first big attempts to do this was

443
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 3: in twenty eleven when there is there's a series of

444
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 3: riots in China and people tried to move production of

445
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,199
Speaker 3: goods out of and they couldn't do it. And the

446
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 3: reason that they couldn't do it was because you have

447
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 3: to find a country that has both like a relatively

448
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 3: skilled and educated labor force and also has the infrastructure

449
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 3: to be able to like match Chinese production. And so

450
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 3: I mean they we're talking about things like they have

451
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 3: to have like a functioning electrical grid that is stable enough.

452
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: For production to function.

453
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 3: And this rules out an enormous number of countries and

454
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 3: it's it's just really really hard. And yeah, like Chinese

455
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 3: capital has been moving away from its sort of old

456
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 3: centers and the prop of delta to.

457
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:31,360
Speaker 2: Places like Vietnam.

458
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 3: Right, But and this is the fucking big one, right,

459
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 3: A lot of a lot of what's been happening for

460
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: the people have been talking about this thing called quote

461
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 3: quote unquote decoupling, which is which is the separation of

462
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: the US and Chinese economy so that they're not like

463
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 3: they're trying with each other. People think this is good

464
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 3: for ideological reasons, or they think it's just something that's happening,

465
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 3: and it's not it's not happening. You know what else

466
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 3: isn't happening. It's us not plugging these products and services.

467
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 2: I think we do legally have to plug them. So

468
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: here they are. Here's the plugs for the products end services.

469
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 3: All right, now that you've decoupled yourself from your money

470
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 3: to buy these products and services, let's let's talk a

471
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: little bit more about why decoupling is fucking bullshit. One,

472
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 3: and I've been to something I've been saying on the

473
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 3: show for years, like people have this sort of fantasy

474
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: that what's happening is that, Okay, instead of making your

475
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 3: thing in China, you make your thing somewhere else. And

476
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 3: this means that American companies no longer have the supply

477
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 3: change running through China. That's not what's happening at all.

478
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 3: On the financial front, what you have is actually increasing

479
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 3: integration as China attempts to sort of like you know,

480
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 3: has been lifting restrictions on the ownership of different types

481
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 3: of corporations to make it easier for foreign owners to

482
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 3: actually come in and invest and put capital in China.

483
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 2: Right.

484
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 3: The second thing that's happening is a lot of these

485
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 3: supposedly like we're cutting China out of the supply chain.

486
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 3: Things have been a bunch of Chinese companies starts starting

487
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,239
Speaker 3: to set up production in Mexico. Now, the thing about that, right,

488
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 3: if Mexico was supposed to be the fucking panacea forgetting

489
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 3: it out of these tariffs, remember that Trump was talking

490
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 3: about two hundred percent tariffs on Mexico, and that's the

491
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 3: country that's supposed to like fucking get us out of

492
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,479
Speaker 3: this mess by like, Oh, we'll be fine because like

493
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 3: production will just shift away from China to like to

494
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 3: where like a lot of a lot of the assumptions

495
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 3: I was reading was like people were talking about, oh,

496
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 3: the production will like twenty five percent of production will like.

497
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: Shift to Canada. It's like, no, it won't.

498
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 3: Just Canada doesn't have the fucking production facilities to do

499
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 3: They're like, what are you talking about, Like.

500
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 2: Canada doesn't have the population to do that. No, it doesn't.

501
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: This is this sort of problem, right, you know.

502
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 3: On the one hand, you know, China has been de

503
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 3: industrializing for like a decade and a half now, right

504
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: and kind of slowly, but there's the percentage of the

505
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 3: population that's working in manufacturing has been steadily decreasing for

506
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 3: years and years and years and years. But the problem

507
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 3: is that when you move production out of a place,

508
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 3: you actually have to have a second place to produce it,

509
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 3: and there just haven't been right like you, it's it's

510
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 3: pretty easy to move low end manufacturing. This is what's

511
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 3: been happening, right, Like really cheap garment stuff, for example,

512
00:23:58,320 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 3: has been has a moving to places like.

513
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: Bangald in Vietnam for a while. But once you start

514
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 2: getting into the stuff that China produces like the most

515
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: of right, which is things like fucking cell phones, sort

516
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: of mid tier commodity production that gets way way, way,

517
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: way way harder. No, but the Chips Act will save us. Me.

518
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: I heard it from everyone on the television. I just

519
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 2: got this.

520
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 3: This is the sort of thing about this, right is

521
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: if you look, if you read the analysis that people

522
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 3: are doing of this, they just sort of assume that

523
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: you can just like, oh well, like naturally a bunch

524
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 3: of the consumption that Americans are doing will stay the

525
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 3: same because they'll go buy goods that aren't produced in China.

526
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, like where where are you finding these

527
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 3: goods from? Like what production facilities are you? Just like

528
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 3: suddenly that have just been like sitting there fallow are

529
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 3: just suddenly gonna like a peer out of nowhere, And

530
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 3: the answer is like, that's not gonna happen, And it's not.

531
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 3: It's not going to happen, partially because they don't exist.

532
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 3: Partially because again, the immediate consequence of this is a

533
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 3: massive economic labs. China's economy has already been slowing for

534
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 3: the like basically, I mean it's been slowing.

535
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: Since like two thousand and eight. Really wow, I see.

536
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 3: That's an eleven kind of but it's especially been slowing

537
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: in the past two or three years because of sort

538
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 3: of cover restriction stuff and also just a kind of

539
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 3: lackluster rate of returns on their own like they had

540
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 3: their own version of the two thousand and eight housing

541
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 3: bubble and that's annihilated and an unbelievable amount of money

542
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 3: because it turns out investing in real estate doesn't work

543
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 3: as his basis for your economy. But like that's the thing, right,

544
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: If the Chinese economy fucking goes down, right, that's like

545
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 3: that's seventeen percent of the world's GDP. Seventeen yeah, of

546
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 3: the total GDP, right, And it's like the economy isn't

547
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: national in a way where you can have an economic

548
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: collapse in another country, in just a country that's that

549
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: large and ignore it. And the thing I want to

550
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: close on, and the reason we know that this is

551
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 3: true is that it is actually possible kind of to

552
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 3: restart america domestic manufacturing, right. Reagan was able to do

553
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: it in the eighties. And Reagan did it through this

554
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: thing called the Plaza Accords where he basically he didn't

555
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: literally put the prime ministers of Japan and West Germany

556
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: at gunpoint, but he basically put them at gunpoint and

557
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: force them to increase the value of their currencies so

558
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 3: that the US currency would devalue, which would admit which

559
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 3: makes it like a more competitive export economy. And this

560
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: actually brought back American manufacturing for a while until it

561
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 3: had to all be reversed under the Clinton administration and

562
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: the reverse Plaza Accords, because the problem was when you

563
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: sort of nuked the zero sum manufacturing of a country

564
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 3: like Japan, their fucking economy didn't work anymore. And in

565
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 3: order to sort of bail out the Japanese economy and

566
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: stop just a sort of world running economic collapse, it

567
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 3: would have just like tore the absolute shit out of

568
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: the economy. The US had to fucking reincrease the value

569
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 3: of its currency and lose its whole domestic production base.

570
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: Right. You can't actually increase a production base in the

571
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 2: world right now without decreasing it somewhere else, and that

572
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: has sort of staggering ripple economic effects for the entire

573
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 2: global economy, which is why even if Trump's plan worked

574
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,719
Speaker 2: somehow and didn't immediately cause an economic collapse by like

575
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: the direct effect on American consumers, it would cause another

576
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: economic collapse by the effect on fucking people in China.

577
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: So well, Mia, I think you might be overreacting here

578
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 2: a little bit, because at least food will be available, obviously,

579
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: and I learned this on X My main source for

580
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: news is that agriculture almost all done in the States,

581
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: so we should be fine, Like, we'll still be able

582
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 2: to eat food, right, I say, staring.

583
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 3: No to the voice, No, you can't, because, unfortunately, think

584
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 3: about American agricultures. It's all fucking mechanized agriculture. The thing

585
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 3: about mechanized agriculture is that you need the mechanized part,

586
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 3: and that's all fucking produced either in other countries or

587
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: the John Deere fucking like, tractor factories in the US

588
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: are all unbelievably reliant on a bunch of parts that

589
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 3: are made overseas.

590
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: So also, we do import a great deal of food,

591
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: well we do. Yeah, even just talking about the food

592
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: that we produce here, right, Like, that's also gonna be fun.

593
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 2: I wonder, I wonder where your strawberries in November are

594
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: coming from. I think the other thing to keep in

595
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: mind here is that this is only one aspect of

596
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: how Trump will impact the economy. Obviously, his immigration policies

597
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: could serve a similarly large financial problem if a whole

598
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: bunch of agricultural jobs suddenly kind of vanish, and farms

599
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: and other processing plants just to go out of business

600
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: due to a lack of workers. And even some people

601
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: on Trump's team have started to acknowledge this, mostly Elon Musk,

602
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: who has openly said that Trump's term will involve some

603
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: quote temporary hardship, so between tariffs and mass deportations. Like,

604
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: even people on his team know that this is going

605
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: to damage the economy, especially in the short term, if

606
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: not the like forever term. Yeah, and yet he was

607
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 2: still elected as the economically viable candidate.

608
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think the last part we should say,

609
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: and this is it's not that you can't like fucking

610
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 3: obliterate a giant portion of the American economy is still

611
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 3: come out extremely popular because because you've crushed the American

612
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: working class like that, that's what Reagan did, right, Like

613
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 3: Reagan and the Vulgar Shocks did this enormous. I mean,

614
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 3: just put a crater in the American economy in Reagan's

615
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: first term, Like there's skyrocketing unemployment, just like real, real

616
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: sort of economic devastation. But the thing about the Vulgar

617
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: Shock was that the way he blew up the economy

618
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: was really really good for people who like fucking owned assets,

619
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 3: like people who like owned bonds, like people like people

620
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: who held other people's debt. He was great for those people.

621
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: And like the burgeoning investment economy which now kind of

622
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: dominates our entire economic system. Yeah, and it was incredible

623
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: for those people. And so it was fine.

624
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: But the think about this economic collapse that this is

625
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 3: also going to just absolutely fuck up the days of

626
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: a bunch of extremely wealthy and influential capitalists. So including

627
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: by the way, Elon Musk, who's Tesla's are produced.

628
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: In China, like he has a gigafactory. He's a gigafactory

629
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: in shing John. So we'll see if Trump actually is

630
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: able to implement this stuff. I think he able to

631
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: on a policy level. It's just politically, can he actually

632
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: do these tariffs? Yeah, it's it's it's unclear. It's also

633
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: unclear what exact numbers he's gonna run with. A ten

634
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: percent tariff will still be bad, but it's nothing compared

635
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: to one hundred percent tariff. I think Trump by and

636
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: large just says whatever comes into his head without thinking

637
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: through the actual logistical ends of what he's saying. And

638
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 2: I think most Trump's supporters do not take him literally

639
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 2: as a person, at least they don't take what he

640
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: says necessarily literally all the time. They take him seriously,

641
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: but perhaps not literally.

642
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we'll have to see how this actually plays out.

643
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: If it does play out in the ways that Trump

644
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: has said that it is going to play out, it

645
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 3: is going to just unbelievably tank the economy in ways

646
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: that absolutely suck. So, yeah, that's that's happening here in

647
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 3: the future. Maybe that's the name of the podcast, right.

648
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: So stock up on your PS fives now. Before they

649
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: get harder to buy, and it'll be fine, Yeah, they'll

650
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: be There'll be nothing bad that happens to the economy

651
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: as long as you have your PS fives. Yeah.

652
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: People always want fucking books to the end of episodes,

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00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 3: so I'm just putting books at the end of episodes.

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00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 3: This is my plugging Chwang Chua Andng. We'll help, We'll

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00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 3: put it in the description. It's a bunch of stuff

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00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: about Chinese economics. Mostly it's a sort of economic history

657
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: of visionally the socialist period and the transition to capitalism.

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00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 3: But it also has a bunch of very very good stuff.

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00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 3: I'm trying to understand the Chinese economy. And so if

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00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: you want to be about ten years ahead of like

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00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: guys you write for the economists, if you read Chwang,

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00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 3: you will end up being like ten years ahead of

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00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: those guys.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, great stuff.

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Speaker 1: It could happen here is a production of cool Zone Media.

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00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

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00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 1: You can now find sources for it could Happen here.

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00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: Listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening,