Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm Tracy Allaway.
Speaker 2: Tracy, something I think about the market these days is
Speaker 2: that in the media there is this incredible drumbeat of
Speaker 2: experts and ads that support the media, et cetera. All
Speaker 2: these experts that they say, don't try to beat the
Speaker 2: market index, index index, and actually induxing is great because
Speaker 2: like it's cheap and indexes of performed incredible returns. And
Speaker 2: now though for the last several years, it's like the
Speaker 2: public is becoming unshackled and doing the exact opposite of everything.
Speaker 2: And we see the most extreme form of you know,
Speaker 2: day trading and trading on Robin Hood individual named zero
Speaker 2: da memestocks options. It's like the public has revolted against
Speaker 2: this message that it's been inundated with for years.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what I think is really interesting is
Speaker 3: not only is retail sort of going out on its own,
Speaker 3: but Wall Street and the institutional investors are kind of
Speaker 3: copying what retail does, right, because retail was the first
Speaker 3: into something like zero day or one day options, and
Speaker 3: then it became institutionalized and you saw that big professional
Speaker 3: volume follow on. So it feels like retail is a
Speaker 3: really important part of the market now. And rather than
Speaker 3: retail trying to do what the experts do, it's kind
Speaker 3: of the experts trying to catch up. Yeah, catch up with.
Speaker 2: Retail, understand what retail is doing. And again, like I
Speaker 2: love an index fund, and I don't like having you're.
Speaker 3: An EMH guy. I'm just gonna remind.
Speaker 2: You i'd like an EMH guy. Yeah, I love it,
Speaker 2: But like I do feel like there's this huge tension
Speaker 2: and it only feels like it's accelerating because now there's
Speaker 2: more and more things to bet on, and there's crypto
Speaker 2: and pretty soon on your robin Hood app you're gonna
Speaker 2: be able to like bet on a prediction market on
Speaker 2: what the that is going to do. So we live
Speaker 2: in this world of trading against what all then is
Speaker 2: like myself sometimes.
Speaker 3: The four pros.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, anyway, we really do have the perfect guest,
Speaker 2: someone I've wanted to speak to literally for years, someone
Speaker 2: who has long been preaching in public that the individual
Speaker 2: can pick stocks, that picking stocks is a good thing,
Speaker 2: that you don't have to accept the idea of just
Speaker 2: being boring and being average and getting the average return.
Speaker 2: We are going to be speaking with Jim Kramer. He
Speaker 2: is the host of Mad Money on some network called CNBC,
Speaker 2: never heard of it, and he is the author of
Speaker 2: a new book, How to Make Money in Any Market.
Speaker 2: So Jim thrilled to have you on the Outlaws.
Speaker 4: First of all, that intro of what you're talking about
Speaker 4: justice is the fundament of what I'm talking about. But
Speaker 4: I want to spend a second talking about the person
Speaker 4: to my life, Joe, Joe, my wife, my wife, my wife,
Speaker 4: the book, door Bookstor And she goes, Okay, you got
Speaker 4: today's show, and you got Joe, and Joe is some
Speaker 4: one who's gonna get it going for you and wake
Speaker 4: up and he's going to probably know the book and
Speaker 4: he's going to know your stuff. And Tracy, I tell you,
Speaker 4: when you do these things are pretty soulless. So when
Speaker 4: you get something like you guys, I mean, I just laugh.
Speaker 4: And you know, my dad sold corrugated. That was his
Speaker 4: job when I was a HEADGS front manager. I just
Speaker 4: went exclusively with him. Let me reference to the last
Speaker 4: week's show. But I do want to talk about totally
Speaker 4: much really about what you're talking about. I wrote this book.
Speaker 2: Well, I just say the first line of the book
Speaker 2: is congratulations, you've just bought the most radical book about
Speaker 2: investing ever in classic creamer models.
Speaker 4: Sure, because understands. But it's true that everyone's been taught
Speaker 4: these days you can't pick stocks and you just have
Speaker 4: to be in the next one. Thank you word Buffett
Speaker 4: for that too, although his stock was the one you
Speaker 4: should have picked. And what bothers me is people are
Speaker 4: going to do it. And you talked about zero day
Speaker 4: and he's like that they're going to do it. If
Speaker 4: they're going to do it, why not help them. I mean,
Speaker 4: one of the premises of the book is is that
Speaker 4: I know that people want to speculate. So look, I say,
Speaker 4: own an index fund for half your money. You got
Speaker 4: to be saving constantly, and then take five slots. Try
Speaker 4: to find four really good stocks and a speculator. One
Speaker 4: you want to go to the nuclear power, you want
Speaker 4: to go through blue energy for hydrogen fuel cells. I'm
Speaker 4: not going to stop you, provided that you try to
Speaker 4: find the next fang. And I'm fortunate enough to create
Speaker 4: a fang because it was just something that seemed funny.
Speaker 4: But you know, I do that too. But what I'm
Speaker 4: trying to do is accept the fact people want to
Speaker 4: do this, do it right, and if they do it right,
Speaker 4: maybe they do it long term owned stocks. Like I
Speaker 4: use the term compounding. How do you compound if you're
Speaker 4: a day trader. You can't. You can't. So I mean,
Speaker 4: I look at this show, and this show is about
Speaker 4: trends and about long term trends. Like I find that
Speaker 4: most things that I read about are about trading, and
Speaker 4: you can't beat the machines trading, but you can beat
Speaker 4: them if you compound long term in really good stocks.
Speaker 4: And I mentioned it's crazy, but I went over one
Speaker 4: hundred years. There was a study about over one hundred
Speaker 4: years and if you held vulcan materials rocks, you made
Speaker 4: a fortune. I don't really emphasize it. But if you
Speaker 4: held Philip Morrise, she made the most money and he's stuck.
Speaker 4: Philip Moore. Oh yeah. They have a whole episode on
Speaker 4: Danny de Vich. You broke that company up as one
Speaker 4: of the greatest breakups ever. But I don't like this talk.
Speaker 4: But I lost my father in law that cancer from smoking.
Speaker 4: Wanted a cigarette on his death. But you know that
Speaker 4: kind of nonsense. So I feel like that long term
Speaker 4: is good provided you do it right. And I let
Speaker 4: people pick stocks because they want to. And by the way,
Speaker 4: there have been six hundred thousand millionaires created by individual
Speaker 4: stocks in the last year, and I want the people
Speaker 4: who read it to be the next ones.
Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say, whatever you think about
Speaker 3: overall performance and the efficient market hypothesis, just putting your
Speaker 3: money in the s and P five hundred is kind
Speaker 3: of boring, right.
Speaker 4: Well, that's it. You see, people they want something, they're jonesing.
Speaker 4: I have to keep them from jonesing on the wrong
Speaker 4: thing because I don't even want jonesy. I actually want investing.
Speaker 4: I was the one to show the other day that
Speaker 4: guy said, why do you encourage day traders? I was
Speaker 4: a hedge fund manager for many, many years, and when
Speaker 4: I quit, I said, you know what, I have got
Speaker 4: to change this because people keep thinking they can come
Speaker 4: in standing start and buy Micron and you don't know
Speaker 4: anything about Micron. Do a standing start. Why not pick
Speaker 4: a great stock that's down because and it's got a
Speaker 4: good yield and you can own it for a long time.
Speaker 4: You see the big secular trend and if I can
Speaker 4: do that and get people to stop day trading. That's
Speaker 4: the win they can't do. You guys think that they
Speaker 4: can win day trading at home. No, No, it's correctly Okay,
Speaker 4: they can't.
Speaker 2: Look so your argument they can't win day trading, but
Speaker 2: they can win picking stocks and holding.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I think that things have changed from when
Speaker 4: I got in the business. I used to go to
Speaker 4: the New York Commercial Library and read microfiche that was
Speaker 4: a couple of months old. Couldn't get any reports. It
Speaker 4: wasn't available. Now everything's available, and I do recommend look
Speaker 4: chat GPT perplexity. You can find out more than you get.
Speaker 4: I mean I was watched within five minutes. They have everything. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I just think that if someone wants to do it right,
Speaker 4: they can do it right. They got four slots away
Speaker 4: from the speculative. I show that one or two if
Speaker 4: they hit, can make up for all the losses. I
Speaker 4: accept the fact that they're going to have losses because
Speaker 4: nobody's that good. But in every kind of schematic I did,
Speaker 4: the index fund didn't do as well, and yet we
Speaker 4: revere the index fund good. We get one really good. Well,
Speaker 4: you have seven good ones in four ninety three bad. Well,
Speaker 4: that's what you and that's not my style.
Speaker 3: It is true. I am kind of partial to the
Speaker 3: argument that because so much of the debate and the
Speaker 3: story is online now that the guy who's like day
Speaker 3: trading from his basement probably has a very good finger
Speaker 3: on the pulse of the market and possibly better than
Speaker 3: some of the professionals.
Speaker 4: Stundus, then you're you're more revusrat that I am. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think you saw it during the memes stock era. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Is it weird to go from a professional hedge fund guy,
Speaker 3: a legit hedge fund guy, to the sort of poster
Speaker 3: boy for retail day traders.
Speaker 4: Yes, but I was hedge fund manager. Everything was to
Speaker 4: try to figure out the patterns and now the machines
Speaker 4: do because that was pre machine and now I'm kind
Speaker 4: of a spokesman for the individual investor who is completely
Speaker 4: not the professional. And that's because the show may have
Speaker 4: Money's pron for twenty years. It's a six o'clock show,
Speaker 4: and what happens it's all about what the individual's trying
Speaker 4: to do and what I'm trying to explain. Let's give
Speaker 4: you example tonight, give you a little preview. I'm gonna
Speaker 4: talk about the multiple and why I went talk about
Speaker 4: the multiple because that's the secret sauce. And yet people
Speaker 4: don't understand I'm and I invoke my mom in the book.
Speaker 4: My mom is a person who you meant we were
Speaker 4: talking about injured knew it. My mom is someone who
Speaker 4: says Pepsi's was at one hundred and forty right now
Speaker 4: Coca Cola is sixty seven. I've got to buy coke.
Speaker 4: It should never be as cheap as pepsi. Coke should
Speaker 4: be double And like I would say, Mom, no, that
Speaker 4: has artifice. Is the price sar which is Jimmy, listen
Speaker 4: to me. It's ridiculous to Pepsi's a one forty period,
Speaker 4: end of story. And she didn't know that it was
Speaker 4: a ratio. And she would call in at nine point
Speaker 4: thirty when I was a goldman and buy I want
Speaker 4: to buy three shares of Giant Food. And that was
Speaker 4: not the why I was a goldman, just not to
Speaker 4: do the three Sure, But I am incredibly cognizant in
Speaker 4: the book that people don't know how to read a baluantie.
Speaker 4: So I actually take the risk of twenty pages about
Speaker 4: how to read a balance sheet. I take it now
Speaker 4: when I did the book, they were like, whoa hey,
Speaker 4: and I said, no, no, I got to go there.
Speaker 4: If I'm telling people to own individual stocks, I have
Speaker 4: to help them with chat GPT and how to analyze
Speaker 4: balance sheet and how to actually go line by line,
Speaker 4: because I don't want to be irresponsible and say what
Speaker 4: you ought to do is say, you know what, Coca
Speaker 4: cola is pretty good here You've got to understand why.
Speaker 4: And that's a big part of the book.
Speaker 2: You mentioned a Memestucks as someone who has spent a
Speaker 2: career advocating this for this idea that the individual can
Speaker 2: trade like now in twenty twenty five, Like, what do
Speaker 2: you think about that specific time? I mean, arguably it's
Speaker 2: like multiplied since then, But have you ever do you
Speaker 2: ever stop and think like, do you ever think this
Speaker 2: has gotten out of hand? Do you ever think this
Speaker 2: is a monster that has gone beyond where it's like?
Speaker 2: Do you ever have misgivings about the degree of public participation?
Speaker 4: I had a moment where I had had some serious
Speaker 4: back surgery, so I was out heavily medicated for three days,
Speaker 4: and when I started this game during GameStop may Well,
Speaker 4: GameStop was about one hundred but when I started, and when
Speaker 4: I came to basically and stopped using the whatever kind
Speaker 4: of heroin that they give you these days. It was
Speaker 4: a Thursday and GameStop had quadrupled. I had a Catherine.
Speaker 3: Did you think you were hallucinating?
Speaker 4: Well? I had, yes, yes, I thought that maybe something
Speaker 4: in the midnight guy slipped something. But I had Catherine
Speaker 4: me and I couldn't reach the TV. It must drive
Speaker 4: me crazy. I finally just pulled the Catherine out, which
Speaker 4: is really not a good experience. You really like to
Speaker 4: be more of a pro. And I called in to
Speaker 4: Karl and David, Carl Continua and David Paper and said,
Speaker 4: it's just ridiculous. Everybody has to sell. After that, it
Speaker 4: was twenty four to seven Bodyguard because I destroyed the
Speaker 4: chain letter. Game Stop shouldn't have been a four hundred.
Speaker 4: We all know that it is an industry that game
Speaker 4: Stop is still fighting, and they've got you know, they've
Speaker 4: raised a lot of money by doing that at the
Speaker 4: money sales, the.
Speaker 2: Death threats and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: Oh, I've had a lot of debt, right, I'm sure
Speaker 4: I was supposed to.
Speaker 2: Maybe over maybe we'll talk a little bit about both
Speaker 2: of us need to learn a little bit more about
Speaker 2: how to handle public.
Speaker 4: But yeah, well you've always been you've been straight, and
Speaker 4: we know that you're fearless. And fearless means when you're
Speaker 4: with your guards, they say, listen, you gotta stop being fuels.
Speaker 4: So I owned a restaurant. Yeah, and one of the
Speaker 4: guards said, look, here's what we're going to do. First,
Speaker 4: you're never going to your own restaurant. That's the most VISI.
Speaker 4: I said, I own the restaurant. I like to go
Speaker 4: in Tuesdays and Wednesday. Said okay, you got to vary
Speaker 4: the day and you got to go and no time
Speaker 4: after after seven. I said, well, it doesn't open until seven.
Speaker 4: We have to be a little more cogniz especially in
Speaker 4: this year, this horrible ear that we're seeing.
Speaker 3: Joe, do you still dream of owning a restaurant? Didn't
Speaker 3: you talk about.
Speaker 4: Doing Okay, I gotta tell you. If you can have
Speaker 4: a mixture of alcohol, yeah, you know, you can make money.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we made money.
Speaker 3: Just on the alcohol.
Speaker 2: You also a business, which we should.
Speaker 4: That's why we had to switch because we saw the
Speaker 4: people buying mescal like man, so we pivoted. Wow, you
Speaker 4: really fought well. Of course, you. You're knowed, the knowledgeable chase.
Speaker 4: I've not worked with you, I've listened to you, and
Speaker 4: you're completely enjoyable and terrific. And this is a show.
Speaker 4: I was telling Joe beforehand, what a cool thing. We
Speaker 4: haven't taken seven commercials yet. Do you realize that we.
Speaker 3: Might have once listened be published?
Speaker 2: Wait?
Speaker 3: Okay, sirious question.
Speaker 4: We've been serious the whole way, right, haven't we?
Speaker 3: Sure you touched on the information? The plethora of information
Speaker 3: sort of leveling the field for professionals and retail. And
Speaker 3: then earlier this week we had Trump suggesting that public
Speaker 3: companies should report every six months instead of quarterly. Oh
Speaker 3: what would that do for the retail investor? And there
Speaker 3: is also this trend towards more private markets, more companies
Speaker 3: that are not ipoing, less information available.
Speaker 4: Well, this has been a great soul searching moment because
Speaker 4: having run a public company the street the quarterly follows
Speaker 4: cost this a fortune. We didn't have that much. It
Speaker 4: was like our whole profit went to the auditors and
Speaker 4: they were real paying the butte because we didn't know
Speaker 4: how to do it. And the CFO at a huddle,
Speaker 4: we lose that person for twenty days. But as an investor,
Speaker 4: I want all the information possible. So I kind of
Speaker 4: feel like, look, you can give us two reports, but
Speaker 4: you've got to give us support that would make us
Speaker 4: in the non secit make us understand why we should
Speaker 4: be paying X for you. Again, the price Durnings motable,
Speaker 4: because that's that's what people need to be able to
Speaker 4: make decisions. This was a harder one than I thought
Speaker 4: because the president really does speak to a lot of
Speaker 4: CEOs and this is what they talk about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure they complain about it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, because look, one of the things that I
Speaker 4: hated about the being a public company is the conference call.
Speaker 4: What are we going to say? Do we do well?
Speaker 4: What are you going to predict? Are the Martins going up? Martin?
Speaker 4: I mean, and I just we can't give a forecast. No,
Speaker 4: if we don't do forecast, then they won't like us.
Speaker 4: But if we do the forecast, we'll miss the forecast.
Speaker 4: And these kind of silly discussions, they're really silly, and
Speaker 4: I think that they I think they're a shame because
Speaker 4: they suld take a lot of time and they're very
Speaker 4: very misleading.
Speaker 2: You said there's something in your book speaking you read.
Speaker 4: The damn book. Good about it. I read a good
Speaker 4: one reason my wife. My wife said, I bet you
Speaker 4: read it. I bet you read it.
Speaker 2: This is something I wondered about in April when the
Speaker 2: stock market plunged after Liberation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, even they came back.
Speaker 2: But you talked about the fact that like politicians by
Speaker 2: and large, actually Trump is a little different than most politicians,
Speaker 2: but they don't typically run on the stock market, and
Speaker 2: they also like don't run about like the shareholder as
Speaker 2: a class of society that deserves to be represented, right,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned in your book, like Joe Biden was
Speaker 2: sort of proud of the fact that he didn't have
Speaker 2: much money. You never really hear, well, what about the
Speaker 2: shareholder class? Okay, as an individual? And I'm curious why
Speaker 2: you think that, especially now that so many people are
Speaker 2: into stocks. It's so much part of pop culture, et cetera.
Speaker 2: Why don't people talk about the shareholder class.
Speaker 4: I saw Decresso on the floor yesterday, and you know,
Speaker 4: I used to go around the country with him talking
Speaker 4: about the shareholder class and ownership. We just talked about ownership.
Speaker 4: That was kind of pre the idea that everything had
Speaker 4: to be traded. When I was a goldman we talked
Speaker 4: about ownership, and ownership means compounding, and compounding is a
Speaker 4: very boring word, but it is what makes you the
Speaker 4: biggest money. And I think we have to encourage ownership now.
Speaker 4: In terms of President Trump, I was at judge on
Speaker 4: The Apprentice for a very long time, and before that
Speaker 4: he had been on Mad Money multiple times, and he
Speaker 4: always said, look, I don't do stocks. Give me some stocks.
Speaker 4: I want on some stocks. And that's a totally fraud situation.
Speaker 4: You don't want to offer him, you know, alcola. So
Speaker 4: I always just said listening utilities, and he said, good, good,
Speaker 4: this is what I wanted you because utilities. Frankly, you're
Speaker 4: not blowing your head off with ae with marcollucture power.
Speaker 4: But he didn't pride himself in not knowing stocks. He
Speaker 4: wished he had more time to learn stocks. I think
Speaker 4: that he this time around when I spoke to him,
Speaker 4: he's not really into the stock market as a barometer
Speaker 4: of his success anymore. In the old days, when I
Speaker 4: spoke to him as president first go around, he thought
Speaker 4: that the tal you liked the down when the Esva
Speaker 4: the Dal determined it was the great if he didn't
Speaker 4: be if the dal didn't go up, then he wasn't
Speaker 4: a good president. So it was the great determinant. And
Speaker 4: I always tell him, please don't do that. It's too hard.
Speaker 4: You're not really one for one with it. Like yes,
Speaker 4: he liked that. It was like the Nielsen's and I
Speaker 4: have to tell you that doing the Prendice was quite
Speaker 4: quite enjoyable.
Speaker 3: Wait tell us stories. I want to hear the behind
Speaker 3: the scenes gossip.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, what would happen is is that you
Speaker 4: had to monitor tasks. I'm not going to mention they
Speaker 4: would have a task. I'm not going to mention individual
Speaker 4: names because I've had a non disclosure, but i will
Speaker 4: tell you there's some people who do the task and
Speaker 4: some people who want you to do the task like me.
Speaker 4: And I was like, no, I'm just a judge. But
Speaker 4: we would go through it and I would have to
Speaker 4: out the person who did nothing or out the person
Speaker 4: who said they were doing something. And you know, maybe
Speaker 4: the two people were doing it and one was doing
Speaker 4: nothing or didn't show. There were some of those instances,
Speaker 4: but in the end they used my verdict, I'd say
Speaker 4: maybe half the time. And I wish they'd used it
Speaker 4: more because I spent a used amount of time looking
Speaker 4: at it. But the president had a he had views,
Speaker 4: he had strong views, and they views did conflict with mine. Often.
Speaker 3: Here's a question. It's sort of a media naval gazing question,
Speaker 3: but also a serious one. So you've been doing the
Speaker 3: show for twenty years, which is phenomenal. I heard also
Speaker 3: that you get up at three am every day to
Speaker 3: go to the gym and then do the show, which
Speaker 3: is well three fifteen, three fifteen or the extra fifteen minutes.
Speaker 4: I always, because I'm a competitive guy, I always said
Speaker 4: I get up earliest so that I beat everybody else.
Speaker 4: But that's losing its charm.
Speaker 3: Frankly, how do you benchmark your own performances?
Speaker 4: How do I bench because I know I doing two
Speaker 4: fifty initially, I'm sorry? How do I bench bark my
Speaker 4: own performance?
Speaker 3: Your own performance when it comes to stockpicking? Because frankly,
Speaker 3: like twenty years of content, multiple stock picks, I don't
Speaker 3: even know how you keep track of all of them,
Speaker 3: Like I can't remember the episodes we did two weeks ago.
Speaker 4: Well, okay, I mean I have a charitable chest, so
Speaker 4: you can look at it. You can't really compound if
Speaker 4: you sell, you have to give the profits a way
Speaker 4: in the difference of given way. But it's all pretty public.
Speaker 4: But I would gauge me by what I talk about endlessly.
Speaker 4: And now this is not people think that's anecdotal for
Speaker 4: twenty years. It's empirical. If you talk about Apple thirty
Speaker 4: two times a week and you talk about Newcore one
Speaker 4: time a week, and you're graded equally Apple and Newcore,
Speaker 4: that's farcical. I was with Tim coleclass Friday in Howardsburg, Kentucky,
Speaker 4: and he introduced me to someone as Jim owned don't
Speaker 4: trade Apple Cramer, and that's how I feel. And the
Speaker 4: best one I've ever had was Jensen Jensen Wong. When
Speaker 4: the stock was too I said, we're done trading it,
Speaker 4: please stop trading it. And then I renamed my dog.
Speaker 4: He was Everest and I named him in Vidia. And
Speaker 4: I go all over the country and I.
Speaker 3: See confused was the dog?
Speaker 4: The dog? Dog was an idiot. I had state I
Speaker 4: always had to have steak in your hand with that idiot.
Speaker 4: He was a half pitball, half who knows what. But
Speaker 4: I do think that when you look at the number
Speaker 4: of India millionaires, that also is empirical, not anecdotal. Now,
Speaker 4: there are people who want to say, Jim, I really
Speaker 4: do want to measure what you said about Blue Energy
Speaker 4: last night and the verse what you say about Apple,
Speaker 4: and you know what I say, knock yourself out. I mean,
Speaker 4: if it was really wrong, I would have been canceled.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm like twenty years. Means either that I've
Speaker 4: fooled the whole damn world every night, or maybe people
Speaker 4: like it and then they learn, maybe they learn.
Speaker 2: You mentioned you get up at three fifteen. I used
Speaker 2: to get up at four am every day and people
Speaker 2: still think I do. So they think I have this
Speaker 2: crazy work. I think I've been sleeping in a long time. No,
Speaker 2: but but you know a lot and the only way
Speaker 2: to know a lot is to read a lot and
Speaker 2: to work a lot. Can you give us like a
Speaker 2: day like okay, you wake up at three fifteen? Yeah,
Speaker 2: like you read and work like crazy. Give us a
Speaker 2: little crup that goes into your show.
Speaker 4: Here while I start with the Ft. Okay, because the
Speaker 4: Ft has one breaking news story every day, just one,
Speaker 4: but it's great and today was the end.
Speaker 2: What time do you read it? You're up at three fifteen.
Speaker 4: I do have to I mean I have a four
Speaker 4: o'clock workout. Okay, that's an hour and a half. So
Speaker 4: I have a tight schedule for the first forty five.
Speaker 4: I look at the future, CBC dot Com, Bloomberg, New
Speaker 4: York Times, Wall Street Journal. I spend a little more
Speaker 4: time on the Wall Street jour in the State because
Speaker 4: I feel like that they're a little more in tune
Speaker 4: with what the market's doing. And then I go and
Speaker 4: I start looking at my email, and the email is
Speaker 4: just a series of PDFs.
Speaker 3: How many emails do you get a day?
Speaker 4: Seven hundred?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 4: I look through the pdf Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2: Look, you read all the sellside research.
Speaker 4: I read everything I think is relevant, and I'm looking
Speaker 4: for something to say. I have a memo that comes
Speaker 4: out ten things I'm looking at. I have to have
Speaker 4: that in seven to thirty. So that's my overlord. And
Speaker 4: then after that I have to do Squawk on the Street.
Speaker 4: And then I start again and I start writing the show.
Speaker 4: And I've been writing the show with my sister's kid
Speaker 4: since he was in high school. He's now with me
Speaker 4: for twenty years. Stuff. Mason, he's a genius and he's
Speaker 4: I mean, the guy can just I think he has
Speaker 4: two PCs going all at once, and he's remarkable and
Speaker 4: we have a really good time doing mad money.
Speaker 2: Wait what time is this hour?
Speaker 4: Oh, this is beginning. This is beginning at ten oh five.
Speaker 2: And when are you reading like all the conference calls
Speaker 2: and earnings, because you really one of the things, you know,
Speaker 2: details of the calls and earth During the.
Speaker 4: Day, I spend a huge amount of time. I mean,
Speaker 4: for instance, I'm in the house on moment here because
Speaker 4: the only thing I read I had to read this
Speaker 4: poet was Channel Mills, and I will read more of
Speaker 4: that because they talked about how the consumer is hurting,
Speaker 4: and you know, if you're hurting maybe because Blue Buffalo
Speaker 4: it actually was plus six. But if you look at
Speaker 4: some of the brands, proprietary brands, they can be knocked off.
Speaker 4: It's not like when Costco couldnt knock off Coca Cola.
Speaker 4: There's stuff more fungible, there's more elastic. But I spend
Speaker 4: you know, I'm a couple hours a day on.
Speaker 2: The and then after hours earning. Okay, so then like
Speaker 2: Apple reports earnings and then you do the work. Talk
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 4: I have a great marriage. I put that out first
Speaker 4: because I wreck it every day. I finished the show
Speaker 4: at quarter six, it's taped lib tape. I come home,
Speaker 4: I have a bite t eat. I mean I had
Speaker 4: to go out to dinner ten and then I say
Speaker 4: good night to my wife.
Speaker 3: Wait, what time do you go to bed?
Speaker 4: I go to bed at eleven. She goes to bed
Speaker 4: at like a normal time. So that's when I really
Speaker 4: wreck the marriage. That's not the plant. I don't set
Speaker 4: out to do that. Did that previously bad strategy, But
Speaker 4: I just find that I have to do that. And
Speaker 4: that's like during when you have that rush now earning
Speaker 4: season no longer is the season because.
Speaker 3: Companies feels like it goes on forever.
Speaker 4: Doesn't it. It's kind of perma. But when we have
Speaker 4: that week where JP Morgan starts in Wells, does it?
Speaker 4: That weekend is just miserable. Fortunately, during the summer a garden.
Speaker 4: My weekends are just filled with this one.
Speaker 3: I love gardening. We should talk ardening. Are you vegetable
Speaker 3: or a gardener? Decorative flower gardener?
Speaker 4: You should.
Speaker 3: I used to have a vegetable patch actually, but then
Speaker 3: I moved to a new place. I need to restart one.
Speaker 3: How do you choose your sound effects?
Speaker 4: Oh okay, hey, I had a radio show. This show
Speaker 4: and you know where that radio show pure the greatest
Speaker 4: radio network in the world, Bloombergh and the Mayor run
Speaker 4: ran twice a day because he thought it was it
Speaker 4: was a lot of it was educational.
Speaker 3: Mike loves the radio, Oh he really does.
Speaker 4: He was my biggest you know, look, I think if
Speaker 4: I say he was my biggest backer, that sounds like
Speaker 4: a joker. But he loved what I did. And the
Speaker 4: sound effects got people going, and it was drive time
Speaker 4: and he was so supportive, and I love him. I mean, look,
Speaker 4: once you leave, he's not as supportive. But what can
Speaker 4: I say? I mean, this is Bloomberg and you.
Speaker 3: Should try to reintroduce sound effects.
Speaker 4: Radio may because he wanted people to listen. You know,
Speaker 4: bull bear, she sounds imagine incorrect. A buzzer, but a
Speaker 4: guillotine for they had to cut their numbers and that
Speaker 4: kind of thing.
Speaker 3: We only have one, which is the Monopsony Clackson, which
Speaker 3: isn't exactly that producer insert the.
Speaker 2: Very proud, a proud fellow a lot.
Speaker 4: Great to be substantive and great to be able to
Speaker 4: explain and educate. And no one said education doesn't work
Speaker 4: for the numbers.
Speaker 3: Do you actually do you think of yourself more as
Speaker 3: an educator versus as a stock picker.
Speaker 4: Yes, this is really like let's say, last night's show,
Speaker 4: I tried to explain that what matters today with the
Speaker 4: FED is what way will the curve change? Will start
Speaker 4: going up on the long end or down? Long and
Speaker 4: down is the big win. Long end up is what
Speaker 4: happened last year. We had the starter step and then
Speaker 4: we had the December crash when Pal just said, listen,
Speaker 4: we're done. That's going to be the judge. But I
Speaker 4: had to use all sorts of analogies because the curve
Speaker 4: you can't ever mention the curve like the every Sydney
Speaker 4: Homer the curve you can't ever inside the curve by
Speaker 4: Sydney Homer.
Speaker 2: A lot of it's tracy.
Speaker 4: I have also most of debates book about it.
Speaker 3: Most of it is charts. That's what people don't understand.
Speaker 3: It goes by really fast.
Speaker 4: It's all. But I listened to you kind of yeah,
Speaker 4: you're a hitter the shows. It's okay to say I
Speaker 4: like this, sh yeah, No.
Speaker 2: We're going to use this on scissle reels of promotion
Speaker 2: for years to.
Speaker 4: I see these people that I've worked with here you know,
Speaker 4: Will Donna and these are the queen of the crop.
Speaker 4: And you know I was at the street everybody who
Speaker 4: was good. I actually encouraged them to come here because
Speaker 4: they start to start the street and the idea is
Speaker 4: top and you want to go to a place where
Speaker 4: people can be thoughtful. And look, I'm not saying this
Speaker 4: to suck up. I'm saying I worked here and that's
Speaker 4: what the essence was.
Speaker 2: Man Garde Street, Alum, have come through.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: I was gonna like say, you know, when we were
Speaker 2: going over what we wanted to talk about, and I
Speaker 2: was gonna bring this up, and then you're like, no,
Speaker 2: I don't bring up what we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2: A complete uh surprise. Were you in college age spartacist
Speaker 2: or Trotsky? I like, tell us about you mentioned it once,
Speaker 2: I think in a video, but then the video. You've
Speaker 2: also tweeted about your uncle Vlaud about one hundred times,
Speaker 2: with whom you do para passing resemblance. Give us what's
Speaker 2: the real.
Speaker 4: Ill used to be stopped by as uncle Lad all
Speaker 4: the time. Yeah, Okay, mine was spartacist because I believe that, yes,
Speaker 4: the Workers United should never be defeated because we're about
Speaker 4: the workers owning the means of production, so therefore we
Speaker 4: should own the company. Yeah, and now Trotsky obviously gravely
Speaker 4: misunderstood including the ice pick. The ice pick very bad, Yeah,
Speaker 4: suboptimal day the ice pick. But I just think that
Speaker 4: that made a lot of sense, and I went that.
Speaker 2: Way when you're at Harvard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, we had pretty pretty big following, and there
Speaker 4: were not that many Leninists. I mean, you know, Trotsky
Speaker 4: was a pretty good writer. Yeah, and Lenin was He
Speaker 4: wrote what is to be Done? His version number two,
Speaker 4: what is to be Done, and that that's a good read.
Speaker 4: But Trotsky really was a very thoughtful guy and also
Speaker 4: a great army general. And people forget that the train
Speaker 4: the train man only the money train, the Armedian money
Speaker 4: train in shield, and that train really worked.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess the fugitive train crash was a good
Speaker 4: train cash. I like Union Pacific.
Speaker 3: Here way, I like seeing you.
Speaker 4: Well, I just wanted to help it. I was a laborer,
Speaker 4: I thought, because you've also.
Speaker 2: Talked about you once, little wildcats.
Speaker 4: I ran a Wildcats strike at the Phillies where I
Speaker 4: felt that we should have look, we're doing all the
Speaker 4: work here. I talked to these guys. We're doing all
Speaker 4: the work here and yet everyone else the overlords. By
Speaker 4: the way, can I just tell you you had to
Speaker 4: do a kickback when you're selling ice cream, Hey, ice
Speaker 4: cream and all the chocolate. One third of your money
Speaker 4: went back to the guy. So you didn't get strawberry
Speaker 4: ice cream because you can't sell strawberry. Nobody wants strawberry.
Speaker 4: That was the big threat. Hey, listen, shut up, Kramer.
Speaker 4: You're gonna get strawberry. But I had a seventh level
Speaker 4: concession that I paid everybody. I paid everybody not to
Speaker 4: come up to seventh level. So I owned it. But
Speaker 4: we had Steve Carlton then a long time ago, probably no,
Speaker 4: but he used to pitch games in an hour and
Speaker 4: a half. I was always long a huge amount of
Speaker 4: ice cream in July. It was just dreadful. But so
Speaker 4: I let the wildcat strike and it was very good.
Speaker 4: They called me in and they said you're fine. I said,
Speaker 4: well you can't do that. Well, you're not going to
Speaker 4: get any ice cream tonight. You can come while you
Speaker 4: went to this, but you're not getting ice cream. And
Speaker 4: that was it, and that was bad.
Speaker 2: So when did you see the light though?
Speaker 4: From Okay, actually a really great question. The light was
Speaker 4: when I helped I helped strike J. P. Stevens. JP
Speaker 4: Stevens was a terrific towel company, linen company, with JP
Speaker 4: Stevens being his great Princeton alum, and we knew where
Speaker 4: he lived and we targeted the management. Really thought we
Speaker 4: had it going and we were crushing it and I
Speaker 4: was like coming up from the South to help. We're
Speaker 4: going on. And then they closed the company. Rather than
Speaker 4: deal with us, they closed it. And that was when
Speaker 4: I had a change of heart because I said, wait
Speaker 4: a second, I just helped take away the livelihood, the healthcare,
Speaker 4: the dinner for thousands of workers by trying to get
Speaker 4: them more money. And I really had to rethink it,
Speaker 4: and I just said, well, maybe the sparta's is thing
Speaker 4: more focus on the matter at hand, which is covering
Speaker 4: a homicide. But I really felt awful about what we did.
Speaker 4: We closed the company. That was not the intent.
Speaker 3: Well, there is this tension though, between like workers having
Speaker 3: jobs and shares actually going up. Right, Like you have companies.
Speaker 3: The easy way to boost your share prices to cut costs,
Speaker 3: which means laying off workers. How do you square that?
Speaker 4: Well, I think that you guys did a piece. I
Speaker 4: think it was you Joe, about how that you've been
Speaker 4: thinking a lot about the billionaires, thinking a lot about that.
Speaker 4: And I think that the way I square that is
Speaker 4: has said. If I go back to President Reagan, he
Speaker 4: was disgusted by how much the CEO has made and
Speaker 4: the difference, and now the CEOs did never had to
Speaker 4: pay the price, and the workers had to pay the price.
Speaker 4: And you're talking about Reagan. And funny that Elizabeth Warren
Speaker 4: reminded me about this when I saw her. I just
Speaker 4: think that it's a travesty. I met with President Clinton
Speaker 4: over a plan which said, look, I think that workers
Speaker 4: should get shares if they're laid off, because typically a
Speaker 4: stock goes up if they're laid off. And what he
Speaker 4: did was he gave me a can of coke, died coke,
Speaker 4: said this is the greatest idea in the world. We're
Speaker 4: going to run with it. And nothing ever happened. President Clinton, well,
Speaker 4: they all said it didn't matter which president. Nobody ever did.
Speaker 4: But I said. President Biden was hilarious. We meet him
Speaker 4: on that train. He said, honestly, I am the poorest
Speaker 4: of the hundred. Why do I need your information. I said,
Speaker 4: you don't need it at all. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 4: going to take them to minus five. I do think
Speaker 4: that President Clinton was very smart about the market, understood
Speaker 4: that laid off workers were the tender to get a
Speaker 4: stock higher. He was really smart about the market. President
Speaker 4: Bush number two not that smart.
Speaker 3: Wait will you rank presidential market?
Speaker 4: Well? First, I would take Andrew Johnson because he was
Speaker 4: insider trade. Now I don't know. I mean, did you
Speaker 4: read any of these books about Jay Gould and what
Speaker 4: he did? But I don't think this Grant, Oh my god,
Speaker 4: he found out that goal you know where they were
Speaker 4: on the gold standard knee comp come. There were there
Speaker 4: were many many stories about presidents I think helping by mistake.
Speaker 4: So I would have to give those guys.
Speaker 2: So as a what do you think about? You know,
Speaker 2: there is this sort of particularly in New York City,
Speaker 2: this very energetic nascent leftism. They wouldn't characterize themselves as communists.
Speaker 2: I don't think Zorn is going around calling himself a
Speaker 2: trust gat I don't think he is. No what do
Speaker 2: you what do you make of like? What do you
Speaker 2: make of this? Are we gonna like? Are we at
Speaker 2: a revolutionary moment. Are the conditions of past revolutions present
Speaker 2: here in the United States?
Speaker 4: No, they're not, because we have great job growth and
Speaker 4: the revolutions have typically been preceded by famine.
Speaker 2: Okay, well then how serious, like when you you know,
Speaker 2: what do you what do you think about the DSA
Speaker 2: and so forth, like, because I think you've said, you know, like,
Speaker 2: do you consider them to be dangerous radicals or are
Speaker 2: they like a sort of different shade of liberal democrats.
Speaker 4: I think different set of liberal democrat. I mean, I
Speaker 4: remember Occupy Wall Street. Now you used to go to
Speaker 4: it every see what's going on to interview people, and
Speaker 4: they didn't know that where they were politically because they
Speaker 4: were so confused, and we all in the media kind
Speaker 4: of felt that they were communists or leftists, and when
Speaker 4: to tear down Wall Street, they just I mean they
Speaker 4: were just sleeping on a cold stone, trying to saying listen,
Speaker 4: we're unhappy, and their ethos was zero. I think that
Speaker 4: this is the Marrow race. I mean, look, I care
Speaker 4: about defunding police versus police because they care about public safety.
Speaker 4: And I saw what happened in San Francisco.
Speaker 2: Zoran has changed, I mean he has changed his mind
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 4: That's why I don't think that we're going to be
Speaker 4: San Francisco. And I also think by the way we
Speaker 4: went to trains on time, we went public safety, and
Speaker 4: I don't think that that's I don't think they're in play.
Speaker 4: I just really don't. Now I'm a New Jersey citizen,
Speaker 4: I have to love the governor of New Jersey was
Speaker 4: my boss at Golden Sacks. But look, I just want
Speaker 4: everyone to be able to recognize that the town has
Speaker 4: made a great comeback. There's just so many great places,
Speaker 4: and I hate to see anything devolved into San Francisco,
Speaker 4: which is getting better, but was a nightmare to the
Speaker 4: point where I stopped going. I used to do four
Speaker 4: times a year of my show. But I saw a
Speaker 4: guy pull a knife I was in front of I
Speaker 4: was behind him at Walgreens, got all the money, and
Speaker 4: then the cops arrested him outside and they released him,
Speaker 4: and I said, what are you doing? He said, well,
Speaker 4: we are you a hunter? I said, I'm a fisherman.
Speaker 4: He said, well, we do the same thing. We catch
Speaker 4: and release.
Speaker 3: Jim, I gotta tell you, we just got a message
Speaker 3: saying Mike Bloomberg wants to say hi to you after
Speaker 3: we record the show.
Speaker 4: I don't believe that. Seriously, what a selfius ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Even though you left the company, he wants to see it.
Speaker 4: I left the company, but it wasn't my idea. I
Speaker 4: didn't want to leave the company to very specific. But
Speaker 4: he became mayor, and look, I always worshiped him. What
Speaker 4: can I say? And I won't even talk about the
Speaker 4: myriad charities that he really did fun because that's not
Speaker 4: why I did it. And I always admire that more
Speaker 4: than anything. He never wanted anyone to know. In New York,
Speaker 4: it's so it's so predominant. You go into a building
Speaker 4: and the guy's got his name on it, Well, there's
Speaker 4: no you know that is not Mayor Bloomberg. Mayor Bloomberg
Speaker 4: was I remember giving an award for what we did
Speaker 4: at the Brooklyn Bridge. I don't know if you guys
Speaker 4: the Brooklyn Bage Park. But this city's been be dumb,
Speaker 4: and a lot of it is that mister mayor. He's
Speaker 4: mister mayor.
Speaker 3: Back to finance for a second, were you ever tempted
Speaker 3: to recommend the inverse Kramer etf Okay?
Speaker 4: So that guy got crushed. He was just denial but.
Speaker 3: Had you recommended it, they would have had to short themselves. Right,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, right, what.
Speaker 4: A cool idea. Yeah. I didn't want it, and it was
Speaker 4: one of those things this is. Yeah, you go through
Speaker 4: and your wife says, I don't want you acknowledge him.
Speaker 4: I said, well, the guy's a total joke. I don't
Speaker 4: want you to acknowledge him. And a lot of times
Speaker 4: what happens is you do go back to your home
Speaker 4: and you ask your wife what can do or your
Speaker 4: partner what's right? Because everyone has got an agenda at work,
Speaker 4: but my wife's agenda is me, and so I always
Speaker 4: knew that she was just like a good lawyer. There's
Speaker 4: you know, attorney client privilege, there's why espousal privilege.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that must me feel so good. I'm looking at
Speaker 2: the ticker and now it did terrible and then they
Speaker 2: liquidated it in February twenty twenty.
Speaker 4: Yeah, how do you look?
Speaker 2: You know, I don't. We don't get a fraction of it,
Speaker 2: but we get a little bit. Do have you ever
Speaker 2: like for your mental health, like public abuse or public's
Speaker 2: did you ever give any tips?
Speaker 4: Okay, sure, I mean there were some.
Speaker 2: People make fun of my voice of the Apple Notes
Speaker 2: coming out, the NBC told me to be on John
Speaker 2: Stewart and I didn't know the show, and I didn't
Speaker 2: know he would I didn't know he would be unfair,
Speaker 2: and I didn't explain.
Speaker 4: They were telling me basically that he would be convivial.
Speaker 4: So I didn't come with my A game. I came
Speaker 4: with my F game, and it was mortifying and terrible,
Speaker 4: and every time I looked out. I mean, I always
Speaker 4: tell people, look at me. Now, there's a whole generation later. Yeah,
Speaker 4: he did sixteen years now, and I meet younger people
Speaker 4: and they've never heard of it. But those people never
Speaker 4: realized that the New York Giants were good football team.
Speaker 4: It kind of happens like that. Yeah. My most important
Speaker 4: tip is to say they're not thinking of it when
Speaker 4: they talk to you. In other words, you're thinking of it,
Speaker 4: but give yourself a break. Most of them are not mean.
Speaker 4: I would say, like, but she goes she the whole
Speaker 4: time she was thinking about Joss. I know she was
Speaker 4: thinking about to No, you're not a mind reader. Take
Speaker 4: people's face value. He was a very mean person. And
Speaker 4: that's a word that my daughter used in fifth grade.
Speaker 4: But I don't know how else to define someone who
Speaker 4: wants to take your livelihood away, and he wanted my
Speaker 4: lively had taken away, and I didn't want it taken away.
Speaker 4: And to take away someone's lively, as I mentioned with
Speaker 4: JP Stevens, it's a terrible thing, and I didn't deserve it.
Speaker 4: But that's it's like it's like the movie Unforgiven. It
Speaker 4: deserves got nothing to do with it.
Speaker 3: Speaking of the financial crisis, though, you did have a
Speaker 3: series of like memeable moments, let's just say, in two
Speaker 3: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, including the rant
Speaker 3: about Barrister. Yes it's famous.
Speaker 4: Well there's a nice article in the FT about it.
Speaker 4: When the actual not the minutes, but the actual transcript
Speaker 4: came out about how they laughed at me, and they
Speaker 4: actually mentioned this said, yeah, we laughed at him. He said, oh,
Speaker 4: Kramers though he's really funny. It was about speaking to
Speaker 4: a lot of people who were saying, you got to
Speaker 4: get on the case here. You guys are just oblivious.
Speaker 4: You're acting as if it's a regular market. And my
Speaker 4: friend arn Burnette was going on about a regular thing
Speaker 4: and I just had to interrupt and I said, look,
Speaker 4: they know nothing, they know nothing, and that was speaking
Speaker 4: about bember Nanke, which who really I think did know
Speaker 4: nothing during that period, and I was widely cascadd. I
Speaker 4: had to go on the Today Show the next day
Speaker 4: where Matt Lauer whatever said you were off, you were
Speaker 4: off your meds. I want to hear more about this. Now.
Speaker 4: See when you say that someone's off their meds, that
Speaker 4: presumes that you were on your meds. And again I
Speaker 4: mean like, look, am I used to being demeaned? Does
Speaker 4: it bother me? It doesn't bother me like you used to.
Speaker 4: But I do say that that Ran holds up and
Speaker 4: I'm practice Ran.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And then I did that other thing where I went
Speaker 4: if you have any on the Today's Show, if you
Speaker 4: need your money anytime? The next five years and the
Speaker 4: market fell forty percent after this. They used to take
Speaker 4: it out now because I didn't want people by the way,
Speaker 4: it took five years to get to market back to
Speaker 4: where it was. I was worried about people fixed income
Speaker 4: fixed on meeting. They own General Mills and they own Chevron,
Speaker 4: and I just felt like that it was just really
Speaker 4: the wrong time. And then the next day they had
Speaker 4: me back and Curry asked me, look, you said this
Speaker 4: thing on the show. Do you want to take it back?
Speaker 4: And I said no. I mean sometimes when you yell
Speaker 4: fire in a crowded theater, there's a fire. I want
Speaker 4: to get out as many people as I can. And
Speaker 4: these were moments that at the time, you'll you'll really
Speaker 4: appreciate this show. When I did these, Uh, Subsequently, I
Speaker 4: was so ridiculed that I that I would say to myself,
Speaker 4: why the hell did I ever do it? Yeah, and
Speaker 4: you know, I knew it was right, but no, I
Speaker 4: had such angst even though I was right. I was
Speaker 4: attacked by so many people. But now, of course it's
Speaker 4: a dish best taste. How long did you do this for?
Speaker 2: Like three fifteen? Like, I don't again, I don't work
Speaker 2: as much. No, but I like feel like my health
Speaker 2: is I have the even the years where I got
Speaker 2: up super early all the time, like they took me us.
Speaker 4: I mean, because you stub out all the time. Yeah, God,
Speaker 4: I love it so much. I do. And I was
Speaker 4: doing something last night at dinner and I really wanted
Speaker 4: to get home because I want to formulate a thesis
Speaker 4: on d rams. Well there you go. But I am
Speaker 4: so fixated on this and I find the puzzle so
Speaker 4: difficult and fabulous. The Nvidia puzzle, the puzzle this morning
Speaker 4: we have about what's going to happen. I have to
Speaker 4: I'll write my top right after the FED and this
Speaker 4: is such an exciting day. You get twelve of these,
Speaker 4: so I don't know. Look, it's a great question because
Speaker 4: I don't know how long you can do it, and
Speaker 4: I do want to see the world. And I don't
Speaker 4: take as much vacation. I mean, I'm offered six weeks.
Speaker 4: I take four. But it's because I love it. It
Speaker 4: is because I love it. It's not a sickness, it
Speaker 4: really isn't.
Speaker 3: So how has your research process changed over the years,
Speaker 3: because again you've been in the game for decades.
Speaker 4: So I go out to dinner with Jensen Wong and
Speaker 4: he says, I know you spend all your time reading
Speaker 4: these reports. I just urge you to chat Gibt the
Speaker 4: Advanced and get the concise version and then see if
Speaker 4: it's one you want to do. And that has changed
Speaker 4: my life because there'll be ten. And it turns out
Speaker 4: that Paulti Home was important, not because of Bill Poulti
Speaker 4: is not involved, and Stanley Black and Decker was important,
Speaker 4: and Best Buy was that important and then the others.
Speaker 4: I read the concise version and I could move on
Speaker 4: with my life. And that was a great break for
Speaker 4: me because it allowed me during the real earning season
Speaker 4: to have fifteen reports and just say, Okay, I'm only
Speaker 4: going to do Cat and Proctor.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think Tracy and I both found like there
Speaker 2: are a lot of things that CHATCHI Pig still isn't
Speaker 2: good for. But there is no question in my mind
Speaker 2: that for a research process, whether it's finding the right document,
Speaker 2: whether it's just it's very.
Speaker 3: Tried, perplexity finance.
Speaker 4: I used perplexity maybe ten times this morning, but it's
Speaker 4: short or quicker kirchs from me onto it.
Speaker 3: I think it's impressive.
Speaker 4: It is very impressive. I wanted Apple to buy him.
Speaker 4: I was pushing that jump forever. I mean, I was
Speaker 4: talking about that with with Tim Cocomfrada. I really think
Speaker 4: that they need something. But because of the of the
Speaker 4: Google decision, the judge Meta decision is possible, someone could
Speaker 4: pay them.
Speaker 2: We talked about China a lot on the show. Are
Speaker 2: they are they just to conavi?
Speaker 4: Wow? No, I got that.
Speaker 2: I had never heard that.
Speaker 4: The eighth Army is Yeah, the eighth Army favoite. What
Speaker 4: is this?
Speaker 2: I only saw that because I was reading through all
Speaker 2: your old tweets. What is this the conovit movement and
Speaker 2: what does it have to do with contemporary was the.
Speaker 4: Guy who won the award for for shoveling the most
Speaker 4: cold for steel and Stalin loved him.
Speaker 3: Kind is obsessed with steel. I always wondered why they always.
Speaker 4: Wear every plan. The five year for China's was the same.
Speaker 4: They're long a lot of steel there. China's wrecked the
Speaker 4: steel market. Presidents deed right on the transhipments by old buddy,
Speaker 4: Peter Navarro's right on the tranships. It's wild that that
Speaker 4: he's my old buddy, But he's my old buddy. And
Speaker 4: he went to jail bad not yell jail, because he
Speaker 4: went to toughs. But I do think that when you
Speaker 4: look at China sometimes I'm very harsh about them, okay,
Speaker 4: And that's because my father worked for Saint Regis and
Speaker 4: Climax Union Camp. He worked for a Champion, he worked
Speaker 4: for paper company. He sold gift wrap and carget it
Speaker 4: and every single time he did well at one of these,
Speaker 4: they closed it. And they closed it because the Chinese
Speaker 4: targeted the gift wrapped industry. If you go to Costco,
Speaker 4: all you have is Chinese gift wrap. So my father,
Speaker 4: at the age of seventy three realized that's it. They
Speaker 4: wiped us out. He called a company that does from
Speaker 4: China who had an American rap and said, listen, I
Speaker 4: want to work for the Chinese. And what he did
Speaker 4: was he would sketch logos restaurants and suggest that they
Speaker 4: used doggie bags that have their own name. And he
Speaker 4: had a drawstring doggie bag that the Chinese made for
Speaker 4: two bucks. He sold it for and he then had
Speaker 4: the run of his lifetime. From seventy three to ninety two.
Speaker 4: He worked until the month he died. He actually had
Speaker 4: a good last month. And what's incredible was the Chinese
Speaker 4: treated him like kings and when he died, they gave
Speaker 4: me the proceeds for three straight years. And they were
Speaker 4: the best bosses in the the world and they had
Speaker 4: no idea neither.
Speaker 2: You called China the greatest capitalist nation of.
Speaker 4: All it is, they just crush it. God, you really
Speaker 4: read me close.
Speaker 3: It's the headline of this episode going to be Jim
Speaker 3: Kramer on communism.
Speaker 4: No, it is very funny because I do think they're
Speaker 4: the biggest threat. I mean, what they're doing in video,
Speaker 4: well you grow. I do want in Vidia to be
Speaker 4: the platform, but I haven't been to China, so I'm Secondarily.
Speaker 4: My son went to China to camel surf and he
Speaker 4: broke his uh well, he hurt his shoulder and they
Speaker 4: were going to operate immediately, and I said, look, I
Speaker 4: got to speak to the head of the hog. But no, no, no, no.
Speaker 4: My wife flew him over for shang I came back.
Speaker 4: But the Chinese are a conundrum for us because they
Speaker 4: work harder than we do. But we may have them here.
Speaker 4: I know the exports for really, the export numbers are
Speaker 4: really good for them away from us. But I think
Speaker 4: we had to take some action because there's too many
Speaker 4: fentanyl towns. I got a Fentel town right next to me,
Speaker 4: and I can tell you it was a great town
Speaker 4: when I was growing up, and now it's a town
Speaker 4: where I can't believe it. I can't believe what happened.
Speaker 4: The mills close, you know, the mills, the mills, the mills.
Speaker 4: I mean, now you can't bring back the pirates mill.
Speaker 4: It's good Peeps by George Packer in Atlantic about that.
Speaker 4: But I know we're really rambling hearing. I shouldn't ramble anhim.
Speaker 3: Let me ask one cliche question. Lots of talk like
Speaker 3: the show, lots of talk about market valuations. At the moment,
Speaker 3: froth in the market we're recording this, I should have
Speaker 3: said on fed Day, September seventeenth, do you see froth?
Speaker 3: Do you see a bubble burring?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's two markets. And that's one of the reasons
Speaker 4: why I wrote the book, because there's this market where
Speaker 4: that is a musical chair market. I make fun of it.
Speaker 4: It's a palaeer market and accept the fact that who
Speaker 4: want to speculate go do palenter because Karp is you know,
Speaker 4: Karp is one of the greatest. His ontology work is incredible.
Speaker 4: It's better than scientology ontology. But I want people to stop.
Speaker 4: I can let it be one of your holdings, but
Speaker 4: don't do all because it will be crushed. And when
Speaker 4: it happened, I do believe it, And when it happens,
Speaker 4: you'll lose everything. And then I would anything I tried
Speaker 4: to do be wrong. It's like when I was at college.
Speaker 4: I used to go to the racetrack and then there
Speaker 4: was a guy Andy Bayer, who was pet was a
Speaker 4: he was teaching a course. He said, listen, if you're
Speaker 4: going to go speculate at the racetra, at least know
Speaker 4: how to do it. And I never forgot that. And
Speaker 4: if you're going to speculate, I will show you how
Speaker 4: to do it. But I really want compounding. And I
Speaker 4: want compounding because well, we know that that really is
Speaker 4: Einstein did not call the it's one of the world,
Speaker 4: but we know that that is a much better way
Speaker 4: to make money, much better.
Speaker 2: I have one last question. It's very closely related to this,
Speaker 2: but why are you.
Speaker 4: Wearing a button down? Why aren't you wearing French collar?
Speaker 4: It was it was not wrinkle.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have today.
Speaker 4: No, I like that. You don't have to press that
Speaker 4: because it has some sort of weird Did you buy
Speaker 4: that all right?
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure that was an insult.
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, no, no, because I know I would never
Speaker 4: I'm very much I would have said I. I bought
Speaker 4: my wife's lingerie on she and thank god we use
Speaker 4: you know, match light. Don't have anything to put kazl
Speaker 4: in on the you.
Speaker 2: Know, one last question. It occurs to me that like
Speaker 2: one thing I thought many I got into did in
Speaker 2: the market in the late nineties. At any given moment,
Speaker 2: in a boom or a bubble, right, there are moments
Speaker 2: that feel like the top, and then a year later
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, that was nothing, that was just they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like a few a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: They're like some C three AI is like booming, this
Speaker 2: is crazy top and so things like that, or like,
Speaker 2: you know this meme stock went up, doge coin is railing.
Speaker 2: We must be in a bubble. But all these things
Speaker 2: feel like a top in the moment, and then you
Speaker 2: realize they were just little hills on the way to
Speaker 2: a much bigger mountain.
Speaker 4: So you've got to there's a simple solution. You take
Speaker 4: out over time your cost basis, and then you play
Speaker 4: with the houses money. And then I'm okay because I'm
Speaker 4: a first you know, harm guy, a hippocritic oath, and
Speaker 4: I can tell people listen, if you want to do
Speaker 4: that for your one slot, be my guest. But as
Speaker 4: it goes up, you got to take your cost out
Speaker 4: and then I don't care where it goes. It's fantastic,
Speaker 4: but you are so right, that's what happens. Look some
Speaker 4: people feel that Google's at in video. I mean, I
Speaker 4: worked enough on video another Teragram.
Speaker 2: People were going Google bubble in two thousand and five,
Speaker 2: two thousand and six.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, look, I recommended Google at eighty eight,
Speaker 4: and I was investigated by the CNBC General counsel for
Speaker 4: why I used eighty eight it's so so big, And
Speaker 4: I said, because I didn't use three hundred.
Speaker 3: Didn't you get out of the dot com bubble early
Speaker 3: as well?
Speaker 4: I did? I was short. I went I went on
Speaker 4: percent short.
Speaker 3: Dot com chicks first spotting.
Speaker 4: Because I am owned the big I was the biggest
Speaker 4: share hold on the street dot com and we're going
Speaker 4: from sixty three to two. So I had kind of
Speaker 4: a premonition. I mean, when it was a sixty three,
Speaker 4: the New York Observer said that I was three hundred,
Speaker 4: drew a picture of me as a pig and said,
Speaker 4: the three hundred and sixty million dollars man. By the
Speaker 4: time it came out, I was two sixty, and then
Speaker 4: a year later I was two point six.
Speaker 3: As a Trotsky. The pig cartoon must have hurt.
Speaker 4: I was overweight.
Speaker 2: Then, yeah, Jim, we gotta we're gonna talk for a
Speaker 2: long time. Thank you so much for a thing on.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be honest for a very long time.
Speaker 4: And I know that I got the exception because of
Speaker 4: my book to be on. I told you that I
Speaker 4: was writing the book, and I'm a man of my word.
Speaker 4: To come back because I always want to be in
Speaker 4: your show, because you're just a thoughtful guy. And when
Speaker 4: I when you were the stalwart, you were the first
Speaker 4: guy I read.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 4: You know that no id to get up and read
Speaker 4: the praise that because it was the best. Thank you
Speaker 4: so much, absolutely, thank you. Guys should really appreciate.
Speaker 2: It, Tracy. One thing I will say about Jim, and
Speaker 2: I've always felt this, I've only met in my handful
Speaker 2: of times before, but one thing I'll say is like
Speaker 2: that public persona is not an act. No, the mad
Speaker 2: money vibe is that is Jim.
Speaker 3: No, I can believe it. He has a lot of energy.
Speaker 3: It's yes, I feel like he's chaotic neutral maybe in
Speaker 3: D and D.
Speaker 2: I just can't like, I couldn't sustain getting up at
Speaker 2: four and that was just for a few years. And
Speaker 2: the fact that he's still up at three fifteen, well
Speaker 2: he goes.
Speaker 3: To the fact that he goes to sleep at eleven eleven. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's four hours to sleep under. Yeah, And that was
Speaker 3: a fascinating discussion. And I think one thing you can
Speaker 3: say is that in some respects Gym's been vindicated by
Speaker 3: you know, the rise of retail trading totally. Everyone takes
Speaker 3: it more seriously. Now that wasn't the case in like
Speaker 3: the nineties or the early two thousands. It's really changed.
Speaker 2: No, it really is striking. I mean, it does seem like,
Speaker 2: you know, he talked about needing to get a bodyguard
Speaker 2: during game stops. So it's clear that to some element
Speaker 2: there is a part of the retail investor world which
Speaker 2: has metastasized into something sinister.
Speaker 4: When people are.
Speaker 2: Making threats because you don't like this dock, it's really interesting.
Speaker 2: People are just like any sort of negativity is so
Speaker 2: fought back against online when it comes to stocks these days,
Speaker 2: it's really striking. So but also you know, obviously when
Speaker 2: and then other things such as that they know nothing
Speaker 2: rand or the liquidation which I hadn't even realized that
Speaker 2: you mentioned it of the s Jim etf. Yeah, some
Speaker 2: good wins under his belt.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: I really wish he had recommended that. I know that
Speaker 3: would see what would happen to you?
Speaker 2: The exception? Yeah, okay, how do you? How do you?
Speaker 3: I don't even know if an etf ken short itself,
Speaker 3: but I guess you would find out.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you go about that fight. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm glad we finally made that happen. And I read
Speaker 2: about half of his book and it's a very fun read.
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Shall we leave it there?
Speaker 4: Let's leave it there.
Speaker 3: This has been another episode of the Odd Loots podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway, and.
Speaker 2: I'm joll Wisenthal. You could follow me at the Stalwart.
Speaker 2: Follow our guest Jim Kramer. He's at Jim Kramer. Follow
Speaker 2: our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carman Arman, dash Ol Bennett
Speaker 2: at dashbod and Cale Brooks at Kale Brooks. For more
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