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Speaker 1: Hi am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling ravalry. No, no, sibling,

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Speaker 1: don't do that with your mouth, si Vely, that's good.

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Speaker 1: This is the first time we've sat together for Sibling

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Speaker 1: Revelry and interviewed siblings, and we did sisters for the

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Speaker 1: first time, and it was Chelsea and shan Chelsea Handler

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Speaker 1: and Shoshanna Handler. Were you nervous, no, because we we

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Speaker 1: I know Chelsea very well, you know, and I was excited,

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Speaker 1: a little nervous, apprehensive than I got here saw of

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Speaker 1: Chelsea and I was just super pumped. Yeah, I think,

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Speaker 1: I think really excited. Not only that, but we then

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Speaker 1: it's like we walked around the house a little bit

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Speaker 1: and we were chatting. We just started immediately talking about

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Speaker 1: stuff and we're like wait, wait, wait, wait wait, we

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Speaker 1: got a hold. It was like running into the room

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Speaker 1: where we're going to do the podcast so that we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you know, we get it all on right, But

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Speaker 1: I don't think we could have asked for anything better.

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Speaker 1: That was It was pretty so great. I believe tears

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Speaker 1: were shed within the first minute and a half of

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Speaker 1: I cried you did well? I mean it was you know, look, Chelsea.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because her book that she had come out.

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Speaker 1: If anybody hasn't read it, it's a must read. She

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Speaker 1: really goes there about her life, you know, she goes

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Speaker 1: there about the death of her brother, and we just

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Speaker 1: that's where you and I just completely lost it. Well

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Speaker 1: it's just I mean I can't even imagine. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have these tragedies in your family, and how do

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Speaker 1: you get through them and how did they inform who

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Speaker 1: you are? And how did that completely change Chelsea's life

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Speaker 1: in Shoshana's life. And it is also great to everyone

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Speaker 1: knows who Chelsea is. I mean, she is out there

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Speaker 1: and she is honest and truthful and open, and she's

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Speaker 1: a celebrity. Nobody knows who Shoshan is, right, And it

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Speaker 1: was just really fun to see the dynamic, to see

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Speaker 1: the opposition of character and but see the thread of

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Speaker 1: just like pure love between the two of them, and

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Speaker 1: to hear the stories about how it took a minute

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Speaker 1: to get to a place of real love between them,

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Speaker 1: and that's a lesson here, you know, and they expressed

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Speaker 1: that a little bit when we ask them basically not

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Speaker 1: to give up because you never know what it's going

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Speaker 1: to happen. There's so you know, it's it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things where you know, you you know that being

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Speaker 1: our first time out, she's just so available, you know,

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Speaker 1: Chelsea is so available to share her story. And I

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Speaker 1: have so much admiration for that because I know for us,

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Speaker 1: we do a lot of protecting. You know, we protect

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Speaker 1: certain things about our life and our family, which makes

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Speaker 1: sense because you know, there's a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: our family that want their privacy, so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: challenging for us sometimes to just come out with you know,

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Speaker 1: this is our family dynamic. But I think that this

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Speaker 1: for you and I, we're both very comfortable talking about

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Speaker 1: ourselves and wanting to share. What you're saying saying is

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Speaker 1: is that after the first year of this podcast, it's

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Speaker 1: just going to be you and me. Our entire family

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Speaker 1: will have disowned us. This is literally I can't wake

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Speaker 1: There'll be one time, you know what, someone will come

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Speaker 1: up with something and Mom will be like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't like this, right, but but no,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, we always say, we of course

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Speaker 1: there's things for me and you you know, everyone's different.

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Speaker 1: Chelsea's like, just puts it out there. I have so

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Speaker 1: much respect for that. I think it's really brave. And

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Speaker 1: and then she's gone even deeper inside of herself and

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Speaker 1: she's just still putting it out there. That's what we

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Speaker 1: talked about with her a little bit. It's fun to

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Speaker 1: watch her, honestly, go from book one to this book,

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Speaker 1: and there's a progression of her life in all the books,

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Speaker 1: even though there's comedy, but this is the one where

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Speaker 1: there's some real stuff. You know. My favorite moments, honestly

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Speaker 1: were watching Chelsea when Shoshana was talking, because you just

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Speaker 1: saw pride and love and everything sort of shining in

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Speaker 1: Chelsea's eyes. She loves Yea and she would get emotional

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Speaker 1: just listening to her speak, and it's just really is awesome,

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Speaker 1: and it's a relationship that didn't probably always have the

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Speaker 1: kind of affection. Well, let's stop talking about it and

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Speaker 1: let's listen. I just listen to it because at this

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Speaker 1: point the audience might as well just we're revealing everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I also want to say before we get into

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Speaker 1: this that they also challenged us on our relationship, which

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Speaker 1: is really really We've got a lot, We've got a

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Speaker 1: lot to talk about. But let's not do this right now,

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Speaker 1: because this is not about us. This is about Chelsea

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Speaker 1: and Shana Handler enjoy all right, we're starting. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think we already started. I'm excited to be here. I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited to be here. I want to just jump

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Speaker 1: off and say that that I'm glad that the two

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Speaker 1: of you are fine and like doing something. Oliver are

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Speaker 1: sitting next to my sister, Shana walking sitting next to Chelsea.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We're sitting around around a coffee table and

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Speaker 1: in my house. And there's a reason for Shan and

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Speaker 1: I are sitting together because we were the ones marginalized,

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Speaker 1: disliked our younger sisters. Yeah, the extroverted younger sisters. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was. Actually it's interesting because one of the things

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Speaker 1: I read Chelsea's new book, Wife Will Be the Death

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Speaker 1: of Me, which was truly an emotional experience, I have

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Speaker 1: to say, and I got horny. You get Horney whenever

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Speaker 1: you read my writing. You guys, you guys. This is it.

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Speaker 1: This isn't normal. Ollie and I haven't had a crush

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Speaker 1: on each other for a long time, but at least

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Speaker 1: we don't do anything about it. I just you would

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Speaker 1: say it was sexual tension, but it's not. There's no

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Speaker 1: tension at all. It's more there's no sexual it's just

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Speaker 1: a sexual vibration at all. I asked Chelsea what she

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Speaker 1: wanted to drink, and she says, Allie knows what I want,

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Speaker 1: Like he knows what I like. First thing, one knows

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Speaker 1: that I like. What was the moment for you when

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Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, I'm going to write a

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Speaker 1: book that I'm actually going to like put it all

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Speaker 1: out there. Well, I definitely didn't want to write another book.

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Speaker 1: I've written five, and I didn't want to write another

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Speaker 1: one unless I had something to say, like something different

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Speaker 1: to say, because all my books were silly and like

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Speaker 1: one was about One Night's Dance, one was about They're

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Speaker 1: all just short essays, funny stories about life, travel stories,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I just kind of got sick of

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Speaker 1: putting stuff out that I wasn't immensely prepared to put out.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to be thoughtful the next time. Like

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to just get a book offer and

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Speaker 1: write a book to deliver a book. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: write a book and go out and sell the book

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Speaker 1: after it's done, not the other way around. And I

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Speaker 1: didn't really even want to write a book until I

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Speaker 1: started going to therapy, and when things started to really

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Speaker 1: click for me, I realized, Oh my god, all these

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Speaker 1: doors are open. This is the first time you've been

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Speaker 1: to therapy with Dan. I mean, it's the first time

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Speaker 1: you know, I know four. But so you say that

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Speaker 1: in the book too, You're sort of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you've been to different therapists, because Dan was the first

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Speaker 1: time that you actually met someone or had a releasetionship

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Speaker 1: with a therapist that could resonate with you. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: had gone to therapy, but never with the intention of

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Speaker 1: getting real. This was about getting real this, I mean

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, it wasn't. In the beginning, it was

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Speaker 1: about bitching about Donald Trump winning the election. And then

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Speaker 1: slowly I realized that what that represented to me was

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Speaker 1: my childhood, which was unhinged when my brother died. So

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Speaker 1: my anger that was directed towards this administration and what

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Speaker 1: was happening politically was really about triggering what happened to

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Speaker 1: me as a nine year old when my brother said, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm never going to leave you alone with these people,

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Speaker 1: meaning my parents. And then he went off and died.

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Speaker 1: I took that as rejection, like you're rejecting me. You

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Speaker 1: found a sister you liked better and a family you

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Speaker 1: liked better. And I didn't have the intellectual capability at

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Speaker 1: nine years old to understand that it was an accident

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Speaker 1: and he died and he didn't desert me. But I've

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Speaker 1: been carrying that with me for, you know, thirty plus years.

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Speaker 1: You know, So Mollie's already crying. I mean, what monally

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Speaker 1: put your shit together? What the fuck supposed to be funny?

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Speaker 1: It's horrible. I just real so why we're attracted to

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Speaker 1: each other because we're both messes. The thing that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen is that Oliver. Usually I'm the one that cries,

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Speaker 1: but now Oliver is going to end up crying and

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Speaker 1: everything process and I just cry all the time. First

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Speaker 1: of all, your you're our first podcast that we've done,

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Speaker 1: your first guest on our podcast, which is like, I'm

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Speaker 1: so happy about that, And it's so the timing feels

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Speaker 1: like so synchronistic because your book is about family, and

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Speaker 1: your siblings played such a huge part of what was

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Speaker 1: the foundation of who you are and who you became

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Speaker 1: and the rocks in your life. I mean, you are

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Speaker 1: a family girl, and you you really get that in

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Speaker 1: this book. I mean, it's all about uncovering the relationships

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Speaker 1: between all of you guys, all of all of the siblings.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of nicknames. Showtime herself attributed. No,

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Speaker 1: it's a perfect name for a woman on beta blockers

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Speaker 1: shown she was a little nervous, but she seems fine.

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Speaker 1: You grew up where New Jersey, Jersey? And what part

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Speaker 1: of New Jersey, Northern Livingstone, Okay? And what what kind

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Speaker 1: of house did you grow up in? Well, we lived

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Speaker 1: in an affluent suburb and we had a nice house.

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Speaker 1: It's like a four bedroom, two story home, two car garage,

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Speaker 1: and we lived in a nice neighborhood. And we were

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Speaker 1: like the Sanford and Son of the neighborhood. Like used

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Speaker 1: cars in the driveway. Car parks had a circular driveway

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Speaker 1: like an N and my dad would double park cars

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Speaker 1: all the way around that circle, barely fitting them. He

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Speaker 1: basically sold used cars out of our home and he

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Speaker 1: had he was a used car dealer with No that

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Speaker 1: is an N. First of all, that's a lower case

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Speaker 1: like a lowercase end. Okay, well then I didn't mention

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Speaker 1: that he was a car dealer with a letter to

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Speaker 1: have a driveway. Were they used cars or did he like? No,

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Speaker 1: they were used cars, like and they all had something

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Speaker 1: wrong with them, like one the gas gage didn't work,

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Speaker 1: the other one the door didn't open. It maybe we

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Speaker 1: stole cars. It was just maybe probably would have made

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Speaker 1: more money we sold them. And what about school? Did

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Speaker 1: you all you guys go all to go to obviously

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Speaker 1: public school, same school. Yeah, we'd ask our dad to

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Speaker 1: drop us off about like a block and a half

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Speaker 1: before because they got their car cars. Really just drop

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Speaker 1: me off here, I'll walk the rest. And my dad

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Speaker 1: was always home, which was really embarrassing, like if you

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Speaker 1: had a playdate after school, like yeah, like she didn't

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Speaker 1: want to come to our house because it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: we were poor. I mean, we were fine, but we weren't.

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Speaker 1: Never went hungry or anything like that, but we had

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Speaker 1: everybody had money struggles. Like you heard money being discussed

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Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, and my dad was like in

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Speaker 1: sweatpants with like slip on sneakers and a knitted sweater

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Speaker 1: all the time. He was a hot and he was

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Speaker 1: sitting and your mom knit those sweats, yes, and probably

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Speaker 1: made his shoes too, for all you know. I mean

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Speaker 1: they were very I mean it was a Farrisson tradition.

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Speaker 1: You talked about stinky the stinky dad. Stinky ugs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: his ugs that span generated. Hopefully they have. Did you

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Speaker 1: get spanked? We got spanked once or twice. Remember that

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Speaker 1: time he tried to hit us with a belt after

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Speaker 1: I took a picture of him naked having sex. I

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Speaker 1: did not want she made me do it. And then

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Speaker 1: he came after us and I was like a belt.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, we've never been hit with a belt before.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, get in the basement. We locked ourselves in

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Speaker 1: the basement and he didn't hit us with a belt,

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Speaker 1: but he was acting like he was going to. But

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Speaker 1: I was like fuck that. And she and so he

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Speaker 1: was knocking on the bed the basement door, going girls,

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Speaker 1: you better get up here. Both getting a spanking and

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Speaker 1: uh and she Seana was like I'm gonna go. Seanna goes,

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Speaker 1: we gotta go, we gotta go. I'm like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: making an appointment to go get the shit kicked out

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Speaker 1: of me. You go, I'm down here for the night.

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Speaker 1: And I sucked in the basement and you did you

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Speaker 1: go up? Yeah? I went up. I got my what

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Speaker 1: was coming to me? Oh God? But uh now he

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Speaker 1: was just really a character. My father was just I

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Speaker 1: mean all over the place. He was all over the place.

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Speaker 1: He was really really smart, and he went to college

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Speaker 1: and he traveled all over the world. He spoke five languages.

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Speaker 1: He was very bright. But he sort of got stuck

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Speaker 1: once he started having kids. And he actually owned a

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Speaker 1: gas station that he inherited is from his father and

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Speaker 1: did very well for a long time, and then it

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Speaker 1: got taken from by the government from like eminent domain

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Speaker 1: or whatever. They were building a highway over it. So

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Speaker 1: after that, that's when things really started to That's when

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Speaker 1: my dad just kind of had a makeshift career. Like

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Speaker 1: he's like, I guess I'll sell cars out of the

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Speaker 1: driveway and were like why. So he'd like put ads

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Speaker 1: in the paper and you know, pretend he was, you know,

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Speaker 1: under a different name like Simon or Sid or Si.

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Speaker 1: His name was Seymour. So he'd make up all these

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Speaker 1: names and he'd have all these ads going, and you know,

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Speaker 1: people would call and they were usually immigrant people that

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Speaker 1: you could only afford screw over. Yeah, like a car

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Speaker 1: for twenty five hundred dollars and then he'd like conversations

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Speaker 1: right over here were so embarrassing house. So did you

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Speaker 1: think you got some of your hustle from him? The

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Speaker 1: good party definitely was like, I don't morally and ethically,

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Speaker 1: I was disgusted and I was never going to ever

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Speaker 1: cheat liar's deal for mine and you know, like act

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Speaker 1: that way. That to me was the example of what

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Speaker 1: not to do. So I think it was good for me,

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Speaker 1: you know, to see that reflection, because I don't want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, carry on like that. Yeah, I did not

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Speaker 1: want to marry someone someday, just like my father, I

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Speaker 1: kind of wanted to go to the opposite direction, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean he loved us and did you Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: How long have you been married? Eighteen years? What do

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Speaker 1: you do for a living? I'm a registrant. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for asking. I've been wondering what she does for a

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Speaker 1: living for a long time. Thank you. You're the director

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Speaker 1: of Is that right? It's a home health agency. I

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Speaker 1: do home visits. Yes, it's just part time. So I

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Speaker 1: just want to like lie down. She's very much are

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Speaker 1: going to be Okay, Yeah, she got. But she used

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Speaker 1: the parts of my dad in a good way, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean the stubbornness and the resiliency and the loud laugh.

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Speaker 1: It just the laugh sounds like your dad had a

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Speaker 1: great laugh. He did. He did. Do you wish you

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Speaker 1: had more of what she got? Yeah? Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I wish I had more balls. I wish you had

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Speaker 1: more of what she got. Well, because it's funny because

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Speaker 1: I look at Kate and I'm like, God, I wish

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Speaker 1: I had more of that. Oh really, Oh for sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because just her her balls and her fearlessness, and you know,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't care what anyone thinks, you know, and that's

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Speaker 1: such a great quality. Like I mean, she does, but

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Speaker 1: she doesn't, you know, she really does say how she

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Speaker 1: feels and she just lets it hang out. And like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I checked myself at the door and totally

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Speaker 1: totally the way we're sitting right now with me and

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Speaker 1: Chelsea on the sofa with you two sitting across from

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Speaker 1: I can get to show because I just want to

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Speaker 1: be near her, I think, you know, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: said we're better than them. How many siblings do you

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Speaker 1: guys have? There's six three boys, three boys, and then

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Speaker 1: three girls were born, right, and chet was the oldest. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you're the youngest, so you say it in your book,

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Speaker 1: your book ends. And then in that moment there was

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Speaker 1: a dynamic before Chat passed away that was sort of

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Speaker 1: what you saw as the baby as the like whole dynamic, right,

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Speaker 1: But for you, as the middle child, what did that

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Speaker 1: look like to you? Like usually middle children have a

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Speaker 1: very different psychological experience. Yeah, well I was the baby

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Speaker 1: for a while. I was the baby for five years. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here we go. So, yeah, well that's interesting, the baby

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Speaker 1: becoming the middle Yeah, you know, so I was number five,

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Speaker 1: and I think everyone thought that that was it, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the including me or yes, including me. And

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Speaker 1: then Chelsea came along, And what did dad say when

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Speaker 1: he's Chelsea's the only birth that my father actually witnessed.

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Speaker 1: And the nurse said to him she came out just screaming,

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Speaker 1: like bloody murder, And I think he said like, you're

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Speaker 1: never gonna have to worry about this one or something

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Speaker 1: like that, because the way that she was screaming. Well,

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Speaker 1: I am, so what does that say a lot to

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Speaker 1: have to worry about that? At least? How Mom took

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Speaker 1: it seriously. I still think I'm dying. Yeah, Mom, I'm

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Speaker 1: still putting safety nets all around him everywhere you go.

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Speaker 1: It does. But you know, I talk about that in

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Speaker 1: the book a lot because of the birth process, which

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Speaker 1: is really hard for me to even say seriously because

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Speaker 1: I'm very not you know, I don't I la. I'm

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Speaker 1: very sensitive to over indulging in the spirituality component. I

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Speaker 1: know it's important and I'm getting there and I'm meditating

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Speaker 1: and I'm doing all these things. But like for me

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Speaker 1: to hear that somebody's going through something traumatic because of

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Speaker 1: their birth made me laugh my ass off. I'm like, really,

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Speaker 1: but it's true. Like, after learning and educating myself, our

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Speaker 1: births do have an impact on the way we come

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Speaker 1: into this world. And by the way I did, I

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Speaker 1: went to this place called the Hoffmann Institute, which is

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Speaker 1: a whole other conversation, but it changed my entire life.

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Speaker 1: And this my birth that I never thought affected me

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Speaker 1: in any way whatsoever, because how the fuck put it.

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Speaker 1: But the fact is is that I was pulled from

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Speaker 1: mom and put into a bassinet and an incubator with

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Speaker 1: tubes down my throat for three and a half three

336
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,879
Speaker 1: and a half week. And so the first month of

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00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 1: my life I had no contact, no mother contact, nothing

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Speaker 1: at all. And while I put that off throughout my life,

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00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,600
Speaker 1: after going through this process, I realized that there is

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Speaker 1: some effect. Well, and it's not only you, it's the dynamic.

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00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 1: So like the dynamic between you and mom is wrapped

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Speaker 1: up intensely in that moment, so that informs can you

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Speaker 1: talk about this another time? So many things, Well, this

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00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,120
Speaker 1: is sibling revelry. I mean, hello, this is what else

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00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: to talk too. So when Chelsea was born, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I was like the baby. I got lots of attention.

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Speaker 1: I was like kind of like the golden child that

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Speaker 1: was a happy, go lucky kid. I'm sweet, I was

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Speaker 1: cute whatever. And then she was born and she was

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Speaker 1: like hell on wheels. Like she was loud, she was

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Speaker 1: crying all the time. When she was a toddler, she'd

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Speaker 1: go into these like insane tantrums where she'd spin three

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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty degrees while simultaneously kicking and punching and screaming.

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Speaker 1: But it would last like she wouldn't do it like

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Speaker 1: a normal kid for like ten minutes. She could go

356
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Speaker 1: like an hour, an hour and a half like, and

357
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Speaker 1: my parents were tired. They already had five kids. So

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Speaker 1: I was pissed as soon as I came out, I

359
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 1: was pissed. I was like, but was there was there

360
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Speaker 1: like some neglect there in a way where it was like, well,

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Speaker 1: fuck it, We've had a thousand children, let's just let

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Speaker 1: her do her thing. That's what happened. Some neglect, I

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Speaker 1: mean your own. Did you just feel like completely overshadowed

364
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Speaker 1: by that? I mean, did you? I think I did.

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Speaker 1: I think I withdrew a little bit and I was

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Speaker 1: just like, I have no idea how to deal with this.

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Speaker 1: I don't have the skill set and I don't think

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Speaker 1: my parents do either. Yeah, so you know, I took

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Speaker 1: a step back. I think I withdrew a little bit

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Speaker 1: and became more quiet and little mellow and just was like,

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Speaker 1: I can't deal with this. And it sounds like Mom

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Speaker 1: kind of just let those things happened instead of trying

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Speaker 1: to sort of enforce some kind of like to notice

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00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: it and connect with it and say we got to

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Speaker 1: work on this. Sounds like Mom, Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: don't they ever experienced a personality in the five previous

377
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 1: They just never had to deal with that I mean,

378
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: she had so much energy and she was so loud.

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00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:24,479
Speaker 1: Where did that come from? Though? Probably being born sounds like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gets me. Is there anyone in your family?

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Speaker 1: I had to take a guess. I mean, honestly, I

382
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: would say that she wasn't cut out to be a child.

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Speaker 1: Like she was born raring to go. I'm not dissimilar,

384
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Speaker 1: you know, like she was ready to be independent. Still

385
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 1: have emotional baby fat, literally like all over my stomach,

386
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 1: like it, emotional baby fat all over my stomach. Well,

387
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 1: here's the thing about Kate. Kate came out and she

388
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: came out like Chelsea but performing, and it drove me

389
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Speaker 1: fucking crazy. O God, And I get that. I didn't

390
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 1: necessarily withdraw, but I got angry and so I tripped her.

391
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: I hit her. I you know, it's sad because all

392
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:12,199
Speaker 1: Kate wanted, really, yeah, she wanted a man to love her.

393
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't a man, but she wanted a

394
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: mail to love her because she had no real connection

395
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: to men. I was it guy. So when I went

396
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 1: through my Hoffmann process, I had an emotional breakdown over

397
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 1: her because I'm like, I am this, I am who

398
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,439
Speaker 1: she needed at that time. What is the Hoffman process?

399
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 1: Again abandoned me. He neglected and abandoned me. The Hoffman

400
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 1: process started in the fifties. It's got Bob Hoffman, and

401
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: it's basically the idea is is that you have developed

402
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: negative love patterns from zero to seven in order to

403
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: survive its children. It's infants. We need love, whether it's

404
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: positive or negative. So now we have taken on these

405
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: negative love patterns from our parents, and they're in our DNA,

406
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 1: they're in our being, you know, we have adopted them.

407
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: And this process is this true process, because you cannot

408
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: do one tiny step without the other. And you're with

409
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: thirty eight people and you go through and experience a

410
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: true catharsis, or at least I did, and you're dealing

411
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,679
Speaker 1: with all kinds of therapy. I mean basically it's the

412
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 1: foundation is CBT. It's cognitive behavioral therapy. But you're getting

413
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: into primal stuff. I mean, you're getting into some real shit.

414
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Speaker 1: And for me, the biggest thing was surrendering, not thinking

415
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: I was looking stupid, being I had to really let

416
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: go of my own shit to actually have this experience,

417
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: and I truly did. I had breakdowns like I've never

418
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: had before. Is this like a one on one time. No,

419
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 1: you're with a group of people, which is the beautiful

420
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: part of it, because you're experiencing these emotions and this

421
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: catharsist with people, so you become a family. And I

422
00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: can honestly say that I've never experienced accepting love in

423
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: my life like I did at the end of this,

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00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 1: and also giving love without fear, without worry that someone's

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00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: going to leave me. You know, my relationship with my

426
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: wife changed dramatically. I was finally able to tell her

427
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: and show her how much she means to me without

428
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: worrying about it. One of the things that I thought,

429
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 1: and I really want to talk about is your brother

430
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: and your guys experience, if you don't mind talking about

431
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: it when he passed away. I mean, in your book

432
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: you talk about that a lot. I don't want to

433
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: give too much away from the book because it really

434
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: is wonderful. But you said in the book that you

435
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: didn't remember her being there right that that night, Yeah,

436
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: even though you were there, I was actually out babysitting

437
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: and then you came home or in Martha's vineyard, and

438
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: I was out and I came home to find out

439
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: from my older sister who was with my mom and Chelsea. Yeah,

440
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 1: so yeah, I wasn't there. You weren't there, But then

441
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: you said you didn't even remember. What was that You're older,

442
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: so was your older sisters. Simone and I had come home. Shashana,

443
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: who's here, was out babysitting. So we came home. My

444
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: mom was at the top of the stairs and just

445
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: looked like she had been attacked, you know, and she

446
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: just said, your brother, you know. She came to the

447
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: top of stairs and my sister, I remember, we had

448
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: dairy queen in our hands. We had just she'd just

449
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 1: taken me out to ice cream, and she was heading

450
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: back out because she was older and she was going

451
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: out with her friends and they would take me out

452
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: for ice cream and then drop me off and go out.

453
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: And I hated that, you know. And so when I

454
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: saw my mom at the top of the stairs, I

455
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: remember thinking, Oh, someone's not going to be able to

456
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: go out of mom's crying like this, Like that was

457
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: my first instinct, was like, cool, someone's going to stay

458
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: home with me. My mom's crying great. Like it was

459
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 1: that fast, you know, your thoughts moved so quickly in

460
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: all these different directions. When something like that happens. And

461
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: then I knew, no, we're not This isn't going to

462
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: be good. This is going to be bad. This is

463
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: Look at her face. She looked so disheveled and contorted,

464
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: and it was just not my mom. And I remember thinking,

465
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: is her face ever going to be the same again?

466
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 1: And she just said, your brother's dead, and we both

467
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: knew who it was because he was away on a trip,

468
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: and I just was like, h this now, like after

469
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: all of this, you fucking losers can't even protect your

470
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 1: own children. Like I had so much anger that my

471
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,479
Speaker 1: parents let my brother die and that he went and

472
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: let himself die. Like I was so angry in that

473
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: moment that I just couldn't I couldn't articulate it, and

474
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't say I was so pissed at the world,

475
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: like how does this fucking happen? How could you let

476
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: this happen to me? Like it was all about the

477
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: affect it had on me. I didn't think about my

478
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: mother's pain or my sister's pain. I was like, oh,

479
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: my life is over. And so you become you know,

480
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: when you realize that you don't have the vocabulary to

481
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: discuss these things, and you're so little, she's only nine.

482
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: You wrap yourself up in this and I was so young,

483
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, you stand that is like I don't want

484
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,959
Speaker 1: to ever discuss this with anyone again because everyone here

485
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: is falling apart. And the more I looked around and

486
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: saw my mom fall apart, my father fell apart, he

487
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: retreated and was never the same. So I didn't remember

488
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: Shoshana there because it's a moment one of shock. It's

489
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: like we always confuse those moments, you know. And I

490
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: learned that also that you remember memories. We all remember

491
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: things differently. We don't know if somebody was at the

492
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: top of the stairs or the bottom of the stairs,

493
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, when something when you were told the news,

494
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: So it was like it was a It was a

495
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: It was sad in a way because I didn't have

496
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: any comfort for her or for anyone in my family,

497
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: because I only was trying to take care of myself,

498
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: which is natural, right. So were you were you there

499
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: at the house? Well, I had come home and my

500
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: sister told me after babysitting my older sister, Simone, and

501
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: I thought Simone said she went outside and Mom told

502
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: you because she didn't want to hear the news twice.

503
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: That's what Simone told me. Oh really, I mean, it's

504
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 1: actually kind of foggy. I don't remember specifically who told me.

505
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: I thought it was Simon, but I could be wrong.

506
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 1: But I just remember just this dark, dark time and

507
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: haze over us. And I also was just thinking of

508
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: myself and not really, you know, worried about Chelsea or

509
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: worried about someone. I was worried about my parents. I

510
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: was like devastated for the pain that they were in

511
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: and just in shock myself. And you know, I don't

512
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: think Chelsea was thinking about me and I was thinking

513
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: about her. We were just like, was there a time

514
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: when the other siblings sort of got together, I know,

515
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: you guys were young, and like there was like a

516
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: moment of getting together to talk about it or well

517
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: we did a few days later, we went to visit

518
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: the boy that he went with on this trip. My

519
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: brother fell in the Tetons and he was with two

520
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: other good friends from high school, and he was twenty

521
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: two and he just tripped on a route and he

522
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: was at a very high elevation and he just fell

523
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: and he died instantly. But we did we all knew

524
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: that the boy that he was with, and of course

525
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: my father, just my father instantly the family brought them

526
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: out of town. Like it was awful because he wanted

527
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: to blame someone, which every parent obviously does, so he

528
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: wanted somebody to be culpable, and he sued them and

529
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: sued them and of course lost. He could sued them

530
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: for negligence because they had hiked before and they had

531
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: somehow separated from my brother. My brother had never hiked,

532
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: and so he was a beginner, and my dad wanted

533
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: to blame them for not looking after him more, which

534
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: was a long grasp, but you know, this was his

535
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: best friend. He just lost his best friend and now

536
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: our family is suing him. So we had to, like,

537
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: you know, you guys had to testify in court. Right, Yeah,

538
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: that was horrendous. Did you ever talk with him after that? Again?

539
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: Is he where is he you ever? Yeah? We well

540
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: we went over a few days later before all the

541
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: lawsuits and all that. But I mean, after all of that,

542
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: like now, as adults, have you ever moved to Seattle

543
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: and he makes boats for a living, and he said

544
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: he'll never go on vacation with another person again in

545
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: his life really, so he's never been away with anybody, right,

546
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: Isn't that what he said when he saw my brother Glenn.

547
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: My brother Glenn went out to visit him and had

548
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: a really nice talk with him, and you know the

549
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: impact that it's had on his life versus our life.

550
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: And that's the thing is we forget how many other

551
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: people get affected by these things. Well, so you're saying

552
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: when you're not thinking about everyone else because you're trying

553
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: to self suthe and trying to figure out how it

554
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: affects you and your life and your dynamic. And then

555
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have to like wake up

556
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: from that, and like you said, like everyone wants to

557
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: blame someone for it's like almost like inflicting pain on yourself.

558
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, like I remember

559
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: someone saying that the only way to have peace is

560
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: to forgive, you know, and and that they almost wanted

561
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: to change, you know, international Peace Day to International Forgiveness Day,

562
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: because people don't quite understand that in order to liberate

563
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: yourself from anything, you have to be you forgiveness has

564
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: to be such. Yeah, my father completely got stuck in

565
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: his anger and grief and for years that was his focus,

566
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: just to you know, pursue this lawsuit and you know Civilly,

567
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: and you know, it went on for a long time,

568
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: and he was and total he spent all his money

569
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: on this yea, and like you know, we didn't have

570
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: a lot of money to begin with, so it was

571
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: a hot mass. Did you feel like you lost him

572
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: as a far Yeah, he retreated for sure, Like I

573
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: you know, I talk about that too, because like for me,

574
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: you know, I was this youngest. I was blonde, I

575
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: was bouncy, I had a personality. I was this focus

576
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: of everyone's attention, including my father's. I felt like I

577
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: was the center of everyone's world in my life, in

578
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: my family until then. And then so my brother died,

579
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: who was basically like a father figure too because my

580
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: parents were older, so like my brothers and sisters took

581
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: care of me. My parents were the like figureheads. But

582
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: I was always with my brothers. They would take me

583
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: to parties when I was like five six, you know,

584
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: I would come out with them and just like hang

585
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: out with them all the time. I loved it. And

586
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: then after when your dad sort of retreated, Glenn and

587
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: Simone sort of became like parental figures. Wow right, yeah, yeah,

588
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: they they were parental figures. They were at Emory University together,

589
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: and Simone, even though I remember saying, she went to

590
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: Glenn's fraternity. He was the president of his fraternity. She's

591
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: the president of Tri delt and at Emory, and she

592
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: went over there and she's like, hey, I'm having a

593
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: really hard time with this with Chet, Like what do

594
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: we do? I can't I can't focus, I can't work,

595
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: I can't and he was like, just go he's dead

596
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: and you need to deal with it, move on, just

597
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: get on with your life. My brother did that to

598
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: my sister, and my sister was like, none of us

599
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: had anybody to talk to. Glenn wasn't dealing with it.

600
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: He was doing what I was doing, which was like,

601
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: suck it up, move forward, don't talk about it ever again.

602
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: So I think for me, the most important experience was

603
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: I had a really hard time digging into therapy because

604
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: I thought it was narcissistic and I thought it was

605
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: navel gazing, and I thought, oh, I have shows, name books,

606
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: and my whole career is about me, Chelsea, you know.

607
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: And I'm annoyed with myself at this point, so I

608
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: don't want to go and spend more time talking about myself.

609
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: But the lesson I learned that you are no use

610
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: of use to anyone until you clean out your own injuries. Yeah,

611
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: it's so great and so true. And by the way,

612
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: there's timing. There's a timing situation when it comes to

613
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: this stuff. Now's the perfect time for this to happen

614
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: to you, or to you or to me, whenever the

615
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: timing is. And I found mine just recently. I'm forty two,

616
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: and so we just don't know when that time is

617
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: going to happen, and we have to be open to it.

618
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: And it sounds like you were open to this and

619
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: you the door was cracked and you stepped through it. Yeah,

620
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who don't step through you know. Well,

621
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: I think you have to also look for the door,

622
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And if you and yeah,

623
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: you can't look back and say I wish I had

624
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: had this awakening earlier. There's a reason people have awakenings

625
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: when when they turn forty, Like you know, I started

626
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: this book when I was forty two. I'm forty four now.

627
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: And there's a reason that you wake up at that age. Yeah,

628
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: because it's the time to wake up, you know. And

629
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: so you can't judge yourself for not doing it sooner

630
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: or for not You just have to be so excited

631
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: that you did it that you know something different now

632
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: and you can identify what your issues are. You know,

633
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: for me to not be reactive, to not tell people

634
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: what I think every single fucking time I want to,

635
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: I had never even known that was an option, Like,

636
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: I didn't know you didn't have to talk all the

637
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: time and insert yourself. Have you guys had together as

638
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: the five of you, a moment where you've been able

639
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: to connect together as adults in a way where you

640
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: can acknowledge all of these things with each other. Well,

641
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: I feel like his death gave us a gift. And

642
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: it didn't happen right away. It evolved. But we all

643
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: just love each other so much, and we are really

644
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: really close, and we just like love being together. I mean,

645
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: Chelsea takes us some of these amazing trips. We all

646
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: have the best time, and we talk about stuff once

647
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: in a while, and we cry about my mom, my brother,

648
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: and not my dad yet, but that'll come. We've had

649
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: so many deaths, she calls me to tell me. While

650
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: I was writing this book, everyone kept dying. My dogs

651
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: were dying. Our cousin died tragically, our father died last year,

652
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: and so I was campaigning in Orange County somewhere and

653
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: I get this call and Sean is like crying and

654
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: like she doesn't say anything. I immediately hear her crying.

655
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, what what you know? Because once you have

656
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: one death in your family, you're like, oh, I hate

657
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: these calls. And my mother died. We were all together

658
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: for that, and in a way it was like, I think,

659
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: are my brother's death came full circle with my mom's

660
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: death because we were able to say goodbye to her

661
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: and be there and sleep in the bed with her

662
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: and be in hospice for her. You know. But I

663
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: can't think about it. I can't even think about it. Yeah, no,

664
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: they're gonna be fine for you've got some years left.

665
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: But hold on. But about the dad, Like, why haven't

666
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: there been no morning process? Well, no, my dad has

667
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: been dead for a long time mentally, like he just

668
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: was an asshole. And as soon as my mom died,

669
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: it became more and more apparent what an asshole he was.

670
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: And yes, we love him, he's our dad, but he's

671
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: a bit of a shyster. He lied he was a

672
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: used car dealer, Like, he's not the most upstanding guy.

673
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: We found out we had a brother after he died,

674
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: or not after he died. After my mom died. We're like,

675
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: of course we do well. We found out we found

676
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: we have a brother too. I know, I know. That's

677
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: why I brought it up. We all found everyone in

678
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: this room found out they had a brother. So Shanna

679
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: calls me and she's crying, and I go, Hey, what

680
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: is it? And she goes, oh, okay, Dad, I think

681
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: I forget what you said. You said, Dad, he's he

682
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: didn't make it, or he passed away. They just called

683
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: me he passed away. And I said, why are you crying?

684
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: Because we were so ready for it. It's like the

685
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: longest lead you could have in a facility for five years.

686
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: He's basically like sedentary. He doesn't move, And the last

687
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 1: couple of times we saw him he was out yeah,

688
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: And I go, why are you crying? Because I don't know.

689
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: I didn't think i'd be crying either. And then we

690
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: got off the phone and I was like with my

691
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: I was with my driver, Billy, and I told Billy

692
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, chill, do you want to pull over.

693
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: I go, no, I'm kind of relieved that it's over,

694
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't a quality of life somebody's like in

695
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: an old age home. That's not fair to keep somebody

696
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: alive like that. And so he died peacefully and whatever.

697
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: Like I was fine with it, and I called it

698
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: back like twenty minutes later. I'm like, are you still upset?

699
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, I'm fine out. But we did

700
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: have a beautiful funeral for him, But I was unexpected

701
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: he kept it small because we didn't have any friends left.

702
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: He had some family of ours. The way you talk,

703
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: the way you write about this in your book is

704
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: really it's a really emotional part of the book because

705
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: I think it would be very relatable for people who've

706
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: had that experience where you go and almos sudden, you

707
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: hear these stories about your father that you've never heard before,

708
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: and in seeing him from different perspectives, seeing himreciating the

709
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: family component, you know, all of these cousins of his

710
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: and relatives of ours that did show up to that

711
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: funeral on this really dreary New Jersey day. I was

712
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: even contemplating not going, Like there was a part of

713
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: me that was like do I really need to go.

714
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: And then my brother was like, yes, you do, it's

715
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: your father's funeral. So that was Roy. Where's Roy smoking pots?

716
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: Simple low? But he came back to the funeral too. Yeah,

717
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: we all went back. In the book, she talks about

718
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: like what happened after Ched died, but then like Roy

719
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: left smoking pot somewhere. Yeah, he's been He smoked a

720
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: lot of pot and he's really never recovered. But well

721
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: he started at twelve. He started too early. He started

722
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: to wait for a develop He didn't dance seagull and

723
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: fifteen years old. But the other thing is that's what

724
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: I did. No. Twenty one is that we tell teenagers

725
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: it was yeah, twenty one, right, twenty one pot? I

726
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: turned out fine, did you anyway? I think fineish. It

727
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: was just a nice reminder of what is important in

728
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: the world and in your life, and that showing up

729
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: for a funeral matters, and it's dignified and it makes

730
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: you realize it's a celebration of somebody's life and we

731
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: should always be there for each other. And you know,

732
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: being with my family this year at a couple of funerals,

733
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this is why you know this

734
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: is what it's all about. When I was fifteen, my

735
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: mom sent me on an airplane to Oh my god,

736
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: this is crazy and her uncle Dag died right and

737
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: she couldn't make the funeral, so she sent me. She

738
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: had like eight mom had like eighty r and I

739
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: remember said, you to represent the family. She sent me

740
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: to represent the family. And I can read a speech.

741
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: To read a speech, and now I think about it,

742
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: I'm like, I writer's age. I mean, that's crazy. But

743
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: I I went and I went to Arkansas and I

744
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: submt all of my family that I'd never known, and

745
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: I have to give this speech. And that was really

746
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: my second funeral experience other than Graham's. But yeah, that's

747
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: that's our family. You guys forget I got a gig.

748
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: I gotta go. Oh yeah, do you have forgiveness for

749
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: your dad? I mean, do you know, like after he

750
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: died or was there a sort of a compassion And

751
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: I have more compassion. I have more empathy. I realized

752
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: I had, you know, I didn't have a lot of

753
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: empathy when I talked to Dan about what what my

754
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: issues are and why I'm so reactive and why I don't,

755
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, think about people's plights as much as I

756
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,959
Speaker 1: think about the active way was what was his dad?

757
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: What was your grandfather like? What was his family life like?

758
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: His parents? You know what I mean? And that wasn't good,

759
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: so you know, so it's all of course, everyone has

760
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: their story. And I have to say, after reading your book,

761
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to step in on this because from a

762
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: psychological point of view, you would say that you know,

763
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: you have to forgive your father because you have so

764
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: much of your father. If you don't forgive him, then

765
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: you can't forgive yourself. Wow. Interesting, ye, I never really

766
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: thought about that. That is at the end of the book,

767
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: you do say that he didn't have empathy, that that

768
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: was something we have their own story, and this is

769
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: what I was talking about with even with our father.

770
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: My dad's dad, in the middle of the night when

771
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: my dad was five years old, just bailed on his

772
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: entire family and they didn't see him again until they

773
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: were like in their twenties. So my dad was just

774
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: given a bad deal, right, and so he didn't have

775
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: the tools like I was fortunate enough to have the

776
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: tools to try to learn about myself and figure it out.

777
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: Because I didn't want to repeat the same shit. He

778
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: was just you know, living life in Oregon, so he

779
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: had no chance really with his kids. And so when

780
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: I really think about that, I developed this pure sense

781
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: of compassion for him, giveness because it's in a sense,

782
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: it's not his fault. Yeah, yes, I mean, he's his

783
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: own man, and he has free will, but he didn't

784
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: have the capacity or the tools to fix himself before

785
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: he had children himself. But wait a minute, did you guys?

786
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: You guys just the reconciliation was later in life though, right?

787
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: I mean when did this? We did not get along

788
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: for all long she was She told on me all

789
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: the time, and I wanted her to get to virginize

790
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: and start smoking. You know what I mean. You said

791
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: that Chelsea had such a consuming presence and it felt

792
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: like being hit by a train. Is that right? He said? Absolutely? Right? Okay,

793
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 1: so that kind of But when did it up? When?

794
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: When did it get But when did it get good?

795
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: So when did it get good? When did the love start?

796
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: How old were you after the DWI? Right? I got

797
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: a DUI when I was twenty one and I had

798
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: her ID, a fake ID. I was using her fake

799
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: ID because my mom gave me her ID that I

800
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: could go drinking. She was driving around with her picture

801
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: with my name and racking up speeding tickets. Oh my god,

802
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're terrible. But then there was a

803
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: warrant terror myers Ie d that was a mistake, warrant

804
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: for your arrest. Yeah, I didn't do anything. It was her,

805
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: but you report me to THEBI or something that clean

806
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: it up. Like it was so ridiculous. They're like, oh,

807
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: you're actually on a list of like you know, it

808
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: wasn't America's Most Wanted, but it was something like close.

809
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 1: I can't say that, And I was like, I don't

810
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: think I am on that list, and like, yes, your

811
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: sister's reported you for you know, because you're obtaining her

812
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 1: identity and impersonating somebody is a federal offense. And even

813
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 1: though I was trying to get into bars, that's what

814
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: I was doing. So I had to go to jail

815
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: get booked, and then I didn't speak to her. Even

816
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: my parents got mad at her because they knew I

817
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: was right. And my mother is the one that provided

818
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: her with their certificate. Oh my god, mom, I really

819
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,959
Speaker 1: need this for you know, fake ID. She's like okay, honey,

820
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: here you go, and then you know, the ball started rolling.

821
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: My mom just wanted me to go and do my

822
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: thing because she wanted me to calm down. And she

823
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: knew I had to get it out of my system,

824
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: that I had to go party, I had to go

825
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: sleep around, and I had to have fun. I didn't

826
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: think she knew it was gonna last as long as

827
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: it did. But you guys still fight, not lately, I mean,

828
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: and no one in our family really fights about it

829
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: any thing. Well, all you'll like this. Shows says that

830
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: every time she heard Chelsea's name, it reminded her of

831
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: seafood stew and made her cry all the time. So

832
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: just hearing Chelsea made you cry. Getting these quotes from her,

833
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: we we we got a little research guru over here.

834
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: We had we had a masking tape down the middle

835
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: of our bedroom. We had to share a bedroom, so

836
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: we put tape down the middle and one side was

837
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: hers and one side was wine. Right, But then one

838
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: person had the door and couldn't get out because on

839
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: her side, so she could get out, so I'd have

840
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: to ask her to leave, then have to ask for me.

841
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: This isn't gonna like work for me. It's so funny. God,

842
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: let's see we had some questions here. You never agreed

843
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: on anything. True. Yeah. She would come home from a

844
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: party and be like, we'd be on Martha's vineyard Io,

845
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: that was our summer house. She'd come home and be like,

846
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: there was, you know, into a bonfire tonight. I'm like,

847
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: did you smoke some pot? She's like, no, I'm not

848
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: doing that. I don't want to do any of that.

849
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, why not do it? Everything

850
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: that the world is? Why are you squandering these opportunities?

851
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: Because I was like, you know, eight, ready to fucking run.

852
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to go to a bonfire. Yeah.

853
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: I was kind of like that too. How did you

854
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: two get to reconcile your relationship? Still working on it.

855
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: I think this podcast is going to be honestly, Oliver

856
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: was okay in a nutshell after college in a nutshell,

857
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: all I wanted was Oliver's attention. I wanted to hang

858
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: out with him. I was like, he used to call

859
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: me doorknob queen because I'd hang on his doorknob and

860
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: he would never let me in the room. I mean

861
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: shut his door on my face all the time. Difference

862
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: two and a half years and then all of I mean,

863
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: he would leave me at school when he was supposed

864
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: to take me home. He would just leave and I'd

865
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: have to like call home from the payphone and be like,

866
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: Oliver left and can someone come pick me up? And

867
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: it was our parents weren't really like the school drop

868
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: off pick up kind of parents, and so so it

869
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: was like that. I mean one time, I remember it

870
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: was pouring rain at school and Oliver was in his

871
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: like little weird what was it? What was that's right?

872
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: And he was in his in his prelude, and I

873
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: like knocked on it and I was like rain was

874
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: just like pouring and like allie, and he was like

875
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: not going to do it, not going to do it,

876
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: and he would not let me in the car, and

877
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: I was just soaking wet. But it's interesting because I

878
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: have no recollection of any of these, of course I know.

879
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: Is it that sad that it made such an appreson

880
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: you don't even remember? And the then he went to college,

881
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: and it was the night before he was leaving for Boulder,

882
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: and I went into his room and we sobbed. That

883
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 1: was and then it was never it was never like

884
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: that after that. I think our relationship is always evolving,

885
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: as it all relationships do. But I think as we

886
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 1: get older, it gets deeper and deeper. I think we're

887
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: much more open and honest with each other, able to

888
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: tell each other things. Once we have kids, too, things

889
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: change a lot, you know, because I trust her with

890
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: my children's lives as she does vice versa well, and

891
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: we have very different parents totally, totally, but we accept them.

892
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean I accept the way she does thing and

893
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: she does. You know, do you have kids? I do.

894
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: I have a ten year old son and a fourteen

895
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: year old daughter and a fourteen year old daughter, and

896
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: I have Burt and Bernice. And do you ever feel

897
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 1: judgmental about how she raises her kids? Yeah, even though

898
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: you don't have you don't have children. Yeah, but not

899
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: to a degree where I would be like, this is

900
00:45:58,160 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: what you need to do. I mean I have a temper.

901
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: So if something's like like, well, well you went to

902
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 1: Glen's house and like you basically confiscated all the video

903
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: games in the house. Yeah, my brother's kids were playing

904
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: all these really growth like you can't play that, that's

905
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: too violent. I just I feel the same way about

906
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: I mean, that's we're dealing with things like that's true,

907
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: but for her kids. No, I mean, I'm she has

908
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: a daughter who's incredible. We don't know how she's a

909
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: member of our family, but I don't. I mean she is.

910
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: She and I are totally different. And the thing, you know,

911
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: the ayahuasca and what my experience with ayahuasca was understanding

912
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: and accepting that people are different from you and that

913
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: that does not deserve your judgment. So my work is

914
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: always like, don't judge somebody because they're doing something. They

915
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: don't have the same thoughts, processes that you do. Whatever.

916
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: So the only things that annoy me about her are

917
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: the things that annoy me about my childhood, which was

918
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: stuff that's if it's disorganized, if there's not fresh toilet paper,

919
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: everything that represents unstated like instability, Like growing up in

920
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: our house, when I didn't see the toilet paper on

921
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: the role in the bathroom, it made me crazy. I

922
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: was like, this is disorganized. Otherhow have toilet It was

923
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: a mess. So whenever I like, has a little of

924
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: that left over, and I'll have a place for people

925
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: working and chating all day so I don't have toilet

926
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: paper empty toilet paper rolls. Sometimes on the weekends but

927
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: when I see that, I get a little triggered. But

928
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: I realized, wait, that's not Has there ever been a

929
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: part of you ever in your life where you were

930
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: like I maybe want children, No, not even one, not

931
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: even an inkling. I mean sometimes I think, oh, this

932
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: is I get why people would do it, but I

933
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: don't want the responsibility. I just don't think that's going

934
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: to be the best use of myf You ever look

935
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: at her life and like, God, I'm envious of your

936
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: just freedom, the freedom definitely, yeah. I mean she just

937
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: can pick up and go anytime she wants. Where are

938
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: you not envious of her life? Great question, Oliver, Look

939
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: at you hitting your stride. I mean I'm just well,

940
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: you're like, oh thank god, I don't have that. I mean,

941
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: I couldn't handle what she does. I mean that's just

942
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: not me. I'm quiet and I'm mellow. I'm like totally

943
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: low key, and Chelsea's is you're quiet? Funny? Yeah, So

944
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: I mean, like all that attention, it's not for me,

945
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 1: and you know, like she handles it so well. But

946
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: you know, I know that I wouldn't really enjoy that,

947
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: and I don't know. I guess that's it. Do you

948
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: think that's a function of when Chelsea came into the world,

949
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: that maybe if she didn't come into the world, I

950
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: want you would have been a little more about who

951
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: would you have been if Chelsea was not? Or would

952
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: you have been a different human being? I mean, who knows.

953
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: Maybe I bet you probably would have been a little

954
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: bit more outgoing. Unspoken say that the youngest children are

955
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: normally more extroverted, the babies are usually more extroverted. I

956
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: mean that's a statistic. I think, well birth order and

957
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: a sibling effect. It's all like total one, two, three,

958
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: and then it repeats the cycle. Yeah, I was. I

959
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 1: was actually at intimidated, and even with a five year

960
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: age difference, I was a little on naive side, and

961
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 1: she was like advanced because all her siblings were older.

962
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: She hung out with my older brothers and sisters a lot,

963
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: so she picked up things really quickly. She was this

964
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: fast talker and just like got it and like it

965
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: seems like she was even though we didn't live in

966
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: the city or anything. She was sort of like street

967
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 1: savvy without ever having experience. The whole time, You're like,

968
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: just shut the fuck up. Yeah, did she talk take

969
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: it to stopped doing how every grown man feels about me,

970
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 1: every grown man in my own age. I should clarify

971
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 1: oldies loved me well. I I mean, I take credit

972
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: for Kate's success because without without me, she wouldn't have

973
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: the fire and the drive to prove anything. And so

974
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: because I fucked with her so much, and she just

975
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: disliked me, and she thought that I didn't never dis

976
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: liked well. She thought that she needed to be seen

977
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: and so the way she needed to be seen was

978
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: through work andelf success and self sufficient anybody and power

979
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: do it myself. Yeah, watch this, So you're welcome. But

980
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: it's nice to recognize that. Like, you know, when you're

981
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: a little kid and you feel that somebody's invidious of you,

982
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: like Shashana was jealous of the attention? Probably right, is

983
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: that right? Like as a child that I got if

984
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: you could only have the vocabulary to understand, Like when

985
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: you hear jealousy as a kid, it doesn't mean anything

986
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: to you, Like my mom would be like, oh, she's jealous,

987
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: or the girls at school that would be mean. They're like,

988
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: she's they're jealous. I'd like, I don't care if they're jealous.

989
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: It feels like shit. It doesn't feel good. I don't

990
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: thought I had that a lot. Like for me. You know,

991
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: one of the things I recognized through my work with

992
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: Dan and through like my ayahuasca experience is like, you

993
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: have to have empathy for people in that position, like

994
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: that they're obviously not happy with your presence. So instead

995
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: of making them angrier, you know what I mean, Like

996
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 1: you could, but we don't know that. When we're kids,

997
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 1: we just all acted out, and I think it's valuable

998
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: to act it out because then we can come together

999
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: and celebrate the unionizing of it. But you know, when

1000
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: we come together as older siblings, you're like, this is incredible, Like, oh,

1001
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: this is what it's about. It's so fun being older siblings. Now,

1002
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: by the way, with me and you and Boston and why,

1003
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: it's just a fucking it's so fun. It's unionizing right there.

1004
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: But you weird choice, I know, sorry, Like why are

1005
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: you looking at me like that? I'm like, what did

1006
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: I say? You? You're forming a union? Okay, guys, let's

1007
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: talk about closeness. So you're really close with Glynn, but

1008
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're really close with Roy, Yeah, I

1009
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: mean I haven't seen him in a long time. Because

1010
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: he's so far away and he comes home for he's

1011
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: in but you live together. We lived together for like

1012
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 1: five years and yeah, so do you find that you're

1013
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: more connected, like closer to other siblings. Yeah, I live

1014
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: with roy for a while. Roy K moved out to

1015
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 1: la and that was kind of a mistake. I mean

1016
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: we kind of you know, he wanted to like have

1017
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 1: his own TV show, and I was like, well, that's

1018
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: not really how it works. You don't just get a

1019
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: TV show because I have one. So it kind of

1020
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: became that dynamic, like you could be on my TV show,

1021
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: but I don't think I can get you your own

1022
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: TV show, especially since you shake when you're on camera,

1023
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: like he's so nervous, you know, I'm like, it's not

1024
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: a fit match. Anyway, he moved here for a while.

1025
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: That was kind of a disaster because you know, it

1026
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: was a lot of girlfriends around, a lot of wrong people,

1027
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. He moved to Plow. He's really

1028
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: happy now. But they have always had a tighter relationship

1029
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: and I've been well, you're close with Glenn too. We're

1030
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: all very close. I think. I mean, it's just yeah,

1031
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say like anybody's that's like, yeah, but but

1032
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: do you notice it goes in cycles? Yeah, that's how

1033
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: That's what I like. That's how I feel about art,

1034
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: our sibling dynamic. It's like true, Oliver and I will

1035
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 1: be really close, and then all of a sudden, it'll

1036
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 1: be like Boston and I will be spending a lot

1037
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: of time together, and I'll be like, oh, he might

1038
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: he might be my new favorite. Right, It's like WHYTT Right?

1039
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: Then I'll say it's time with Wyatt all the time.

1040
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, I don't know whytt why it's coming

1041
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: up a close second? Well, whoever spent the most time

1042
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: with her recently is on the ship list. That's pretty much.

1043
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 1: It's a pretty good marker because she gets sick of people.

1044
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,919
Speaker 1: So like, are you doing better? I mean, that's something

1045
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: you want to try to fix. So well, I'm just

1046
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 1: trying to make smarter decisions about who I spend time

1047
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: with because I know my personality more now. Yes, and

1048
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: I'm much more open minded, But I know I get

1049
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 1: irritated when people are like, you know, like, for instance,

1050
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: this weekend, I went away to Sun Valley Film Festival.

1051
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: I was on this panel talking about my book and

1052
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, perfect excuse to go skiing, and

1053
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 1: I brought my assistant, who I never just travel alone with.

1054
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: But I'm just skiing is so important to me right now.

1055
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: I love it so much and I just want to ski.

1056
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: And I get a ski guide wherever I go, and

1057
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: I have him taken me around the mountain. And I

1058
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: took him and my best friend Mary McCormick was like,

1059
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: he's gay, he and so so yes, I did sleep

1060
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,240
Speaker 1: with him. She was like, be careful. You get annoyed

1061
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: with people, and she goes, you don't want to get

1062
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: annoyed with Brandon because Brandon's been my assistant for three years.

1063
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: He's amazing. And she's like, don't cross the boundary. And

1064
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,399
Speaker 1: we cross the boundary and we're thrilled. He's my gay husband. Now.

1065
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 1: I love him. He's more combatable than how for my girlfriends.

1066
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: So I'd rather just go away with my assistant and

1067
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: finally just you know, have a happy vacation. But I

1068
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: make smarter decisions now about who I'm going to spend

1069
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: my time with when I'm away, rather than just what

1070
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: about coming to asphen with our family? How do you

1071
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: feel about that? I love coming to Aspen with your family.

1072
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: I've proven myself good. But as you've gotten older, the

1073
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: threshold is higher. Like ten years ago, you got annoyed,

1074
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, in half an hour. And now that you're

1075
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: older and more mature, and I've gone through all this therapy,

1076
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: I think like you can tolerate more. You still get annoyed,

1077
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: but it takes longer to get I don't react. I

1078
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: just remove myself, like I will go meditate in my room,

1079
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: like a sentence I thought i'd never say out loud.

1080
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: I literally, if I start to get irritated or if

1081
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: I get annoyed with somebody, I'm like, I go and

1082
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: take a time out, and I'm like, listen, get yourself together.

1083
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: You like this person, you invited them on vacation. Don't

1084
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: get annoyed well, And you guys do family vacations. Yes,

1085
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: So here's I'm gonna just put myself. I'm going to

1086
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: project into this for me. I love family vacations. But

1087
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: something will happen at some point and the old family

1088
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,240
Speaker 1: dynamic comes back. There's always going to be old stuff

1089
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: that comes up because we are families, and there is

1090
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 1: a bunch of old stuff. Just because you've changed your

1091
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: or done the work on you doesn't mean everybody else

1092
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: has changed, But it's your reaction to that old dynamic

1093
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: that is different. Like your reaction is different even though

1094
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: and sometimes when you have the same reaction you feel like, oh,

1095
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: I know better than to have this kind of reaction

1096
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: or I'm not going to deal with this shit. But

1097
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: I believe that the baby steps we take to get

1098
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 1: to places are the steps of growth. And I know

1099
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: you do too. But like just because you, you know,

1100
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: had that reaction, say on your last vacation or when

1101
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: you went to Greece last summer or whatever it was,

1102
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: Like knowing and identifying it is halfway over getting over

1103
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: it and not letting it affect you. I would, right

1104
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: you ye think yes, yeah, and also just recognizing that

1105
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: it still exists. It still exists, but some people are

1106
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: now so it doesn't matter as much, right right, Like

1107
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: I always just trying to mind remind myself be cool,

1108
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: Like just be cool, because that's what you really care

1109
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 1: about the most, is just not being I don't want

1110
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: to look not cool, you know what I mean? So

1111
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: be cool, not everything. You don't want to look not cool,

1112
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to go I don't want to

1113
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: freak out and scream and yell and have a tantrum.

1114
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: That's not cool. Yeah, and you're when we were having

1115
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: our little trip together, you're right like you there's certain

1116
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: things you were like, we're not in certain family situations

1117
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: with our family, was like, we're not going to get

1118
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,879
Speaker 1: into politics. That's just something totally, And you were great

1119
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: at that, whereas I'm assuming at one point you would

1120
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: have with Pa. Oh, you guys would have you know,

1121
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: And by that time I'd smoke so much weed it

1122
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: didn't matter what he was talking about. So I just

1123
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: had to set myself up for success. I think I

1124
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: fell asleep on the couch the first time and you

1125
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: lost your phone for one hundred hours. Yeah, yeah, I

1126
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: was so stone, Oh my god. In our family, it

1127
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: was just I was the only girl with three boys,

1128
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: never had that sister, which as I got older than

1129
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: my relationships with my girlfriends became my sisters. But I

1130
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: would like to know if that feels different than your

1131
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: relationship with your brothers and what exactly that is like

1132
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: for you guys. I think so the sister thing is big,

1133
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: and it's like, I mean, I know I always think

1134
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: that about you too. I'm like, oh God, you know

1135
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: you don't have the sister and so, but if you

1136
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: have a really good friend you do, Like it's just

1137
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: like that, like it's just they're not related to you. Yeah,

1138
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: really though, but they're I think the thing about I

1139
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: feel very strongly that like you, you like, these people

1140
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 1: are never ever going to hurt you, you know what

1141
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: I mean. And your friends, like you know that about

1142
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: your brothers, But your brothers can emotionally hurt you. Your

1143
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: sisters are careful emotionally with each other, you know what

1144
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: I mean, Like you understand each other's things and and

1145
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: there's something that sets you up for success with other

1146
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: women when you have sisters, you know, I mean, you

1147
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: don't have that issue because you have a whole gaggle

1148
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: of girlfriends to kate. But like, a sister for me

1149
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: is every It is the root of who I am

1150
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: is being a sister. Because my brother is never gonna

1151
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna call him when something doesn't go well

1152
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: or my heart is broken. It's never going to be

1153
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: the one, you know what I mean, I'm gonna call owner, Shashana.

1154
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 1: Maybe I do have a sisterly really more of a

1155
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: sister probably than most women are Oliver my first heartbreak

1156
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: held me. I was I was sobbing, and I remember

1157
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: I was in my bed. I was like, you know

1158
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: that like audible sob and Oliver came in and just

1159
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: like literally held me while I saw. Our brothers are

1160
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: not really in touch with their feminine side and now

1161
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: very feminine time. He's very balanced, so he filled in

1162
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: where a sister would have still still, but I'm not good.

1163
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: For the record, I'm pretty masculine too. Just for the podcast.

1164
00:58:54,720 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: If anyone's listening, snuggle it'd be so weird. That's the thing.

1165
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 1: When your sisters you can cuddle as adults. When you're

1166
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: with brothers, you can't cuddle. You guys cuddle. We got

1167
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: into bed at night, she got into my bed last night.

1168
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: We talked before we go to bed, and then we

1169
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: both She went into the guest room and I fell

1170
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: asleep in my own bed. Yeah. And this morning she

1171
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: stuck her boobs in my face. Yeah, mom, Yeah, because

1172
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: girls can cuddle. Yeah. Yeah. So his sister's a different dynamic.

1173
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: But it sounds like Allie's really filling it, you know,

1174
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: But I've I mean, there's intimacy issues for sure, Like

1175
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: even with my mom, and Kate. Being able to sort

1176
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: of express myself and being able to love them like

1177
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: I know I should difficult for me. It was. You know,

1178
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: it's interesting that you say that I was just with

1179
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: a friend yesterday, was telling me a story about a

1180
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: mutual friend of ours, and his wife is like, you know,

1181
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: she's madly in love with his wife. He loves his kids.

1182
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: He does everything for them. His career is completely about them,

1183
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: to provide for them because he had a terrible childhood.

1184
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: He was not provided for. His father was deadbeat, blah

1185
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: blah blah. But while doing that, he's lost the plot

1186
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:01,919
Speaker 1: because he's never there. So he's working all the time

1187
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 1: to create opportunities for his family, but he's not present ever. Yeah,

1188
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: but he he doesn't have He didn't he thought that

1189
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: was the way to express love. And his wife is like, no,

1190
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 1: I need you at home with the kids to express

1191
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: your love. You have to be part of this family.

1192
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: I don't care how much money you make. If you're

1193
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 1: away all the time, you're not around. And I think

1194
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: that's what everybody wants, is a presence, somebody that looks

1195
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: you in the eye and says I love you. I'm

1196
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: not going anywhere and I'm here with all of it,

1197
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: and so we all want that. And it's not weak

1198
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: to admit that we want that. It's strength to admit

1199
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: that there's so much power in self love, by the way,

1200
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: because there's you can conquer anything. That's that's what it

1201
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: feels like. It's true. Well, watching watching your experience, which

1202
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: you didn't have one, at least in the documentary that

1203
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: first time, you get it. I gad the second night.

1204
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: The second night was more true, right, right, right? But

1205
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: your friend who went in there and was in the bathroom,

1206
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 1: like I just I love my son so much. I mean,

1207
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: like I can, you can you would have an intelli,

1208
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: I would lose. You're so overcome with love for someone

1209
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: and for someone. For you, guys, it's going to be

1210
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 1: one of your kids, it's going to be your spouse.

1211
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 1: For me, it was her, which was a surprise, but

1212
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: like I was overcome with like love and affection. The

1213
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: pivotal moment actually in sort of securing this not securing,

1214
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 1: but really elevating your relationship as sisters after ayahuasca. Yeah,

1215
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: I think so, But I didn't tell her about my experience.

1216
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: I just filmed the documentary for Netflix and then it

1217
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,919
Speaker 1: was on and she saw it and she was like, oh,

1218
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: did you react to that moment? Did you have any

1219
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: emotion behind it where you're just like that's interesting. No,

1220
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: I was fascinated, and I wish she had told me,

1221
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: but I mean she saved it for later. And then,

1222
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: you know, after that, I think like things definitely changed

1223
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: for us, and you know, she was a little bit

1224
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: more patient, a little bit more understanding with me and

1225
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: just letting me be me and being okay with it

1226
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: because we were so different, you know. I mean if

1227
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: she met me on the street and I was a stranger,

1228
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: you know, we probably wouldn't be friends. But we're sisters,

1229
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: and you know, we've been through so much together. We

1230
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: have like so much history and such a big foundation

1231
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: and we've gone through so much and we've grown so much,

1232
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: and like it's better than ever. I mean, it's just now,

1233
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:28,919
Speaker 1: say if you could get I know right, you guys

1234
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: are fucking awesome. It's like so sweet. You know. That's

1235
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: why I love your family so much, you guys, because

1236
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: I'm from a big family, so I'm always grabbing onto

1237
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: other families out here because I'm like, let me be

1238
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: part of this. I like a dynamic. I think the

1239
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: thing that's pulling all over and I to do this

1240
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: is to share it with other people who don't have

1241
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: that in them, that that whatever their family dynamic was

1242
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: to kind of spread everything apart, whether it be their

1243
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: fear or their anger or the enneagram. You know, it's

1244
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: like there's a way to be able to to get

1245
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: it on track, you know, And like if you were

1246
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: to give advice to sisters that didn't get along, what

1247
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: would be your advice. I mean we've had really low

1248
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 1: lows and you know, we went like for like probably

1249
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: two years with the whole dw I and the warrant

1250
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: for my arrest thing was like a really low point

1251
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 1: and some other incidents that we walk it into right now.

1252
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: But it don't give up. I mean, it's worth it.

1253
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 1: It's so worth it, and I don't think I mean,

1254
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: unless somebody kills somebody else, you've got to find a

1255
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: way to work past it. Because it's true, like you

1256
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: only get one this brother or this sister, like that's it.

1257
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: Like you know, reward, if you can work it out,

1258
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: the reward is so great that it's worth the toil

1259
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: and like the blood, sweat and tears. It may or

1260
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: may not take to get there, because usually what we're

1261
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: all dealing with is being stubborn and learning how to forgive.

1262
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: You know, for me that is my thing, learning how

1263
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: to forgive and getting over if somebody does something shitty,

1264
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: it's not worth it to me. It doesn't just know

1265
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: that owing the next time that that person did something

1266
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: this time. You don't have to scorch earth every time.

1267
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 1: And so the scorched earth part I think is, you

1268
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 1: know what, people get into this box. They back themselves

1269
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 1: into this box saying I'm never going to forgive this person.

1270
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm done, I'm done. Yeah, and you realize that it's

1271
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: really only comes from their own pain, and you're trying

1272
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 1: to punish that person, right, And if you need a break,

1273
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: take a break, but don't give up. That's a good

1274
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 1: point too, Like you got to know and to sort

1275
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 1: of say, well let's just take a small break here. Well,

1276
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: that's also important because with my experience, like Mary is

1277
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: Mary McCormick's my best friend, and she and I have

1278
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 1: when we've had fights. She'll always be like, well, I

1279
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: guess this is it. I guess we're not friends anymore.

1280
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, you can't threaten my friendship with you when

1281
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: we fight. If you do that, I that means you

1282
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: know what I mean, that is my trigger. If you

1283
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 1: say you're leaving, then I'm going to expect you to

1284
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: leave or I'll leave, Like I want to reject everybody

1285
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: before they reject me. You know. So when she when

1286
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: she understood that, and when you know, she goes, oh

1287
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: my god, I understand, like your rejection is a threat

1288
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 1: of leaving, So I go, you can't threaten our relationship

1289
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: when we have a disagreement. We have to understand that

1290
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: we're having a disagreement and the goal is to repair

1291
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: it and communication, like I think, especially between siblings, For

1292
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 1: me especially, it's not easy even speaking with Kate to

1293
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: tell her how I feel sometimes when she might make

1294
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: me feel bad. You know, for me personally, it was

1295
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: easier just to absorb it and put it into something

1296
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 1: humorous and be self deprecating rather than say, you know,

1297
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: I get it, but that doesn't really make me feel good.

1298
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: It's hard for me to do that because then I'm

1299
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: being vulnerable, and then when I'm being vulnerable is when

1300
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: shit happens. Absolutely, but for me too, like you feel

1301
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:49,919
Speaker 1: like you're going to die and it's yeah, that's sure,

1302
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: But the alternative isn't an option because then you just

1303
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: get anger and anger and anger. And if you react

1304
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 1: with actual vulnerability, which is strength, which is saying, hey,

1305
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 1: this hurts me, I love you and I'm hurt. What

1306
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: can we do about it? Instead of freaking out and

1307
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: going you fucking ass while you did this and this

1308
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: and this, which has always been my way, it's now like, Okay,

1309
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: how does this make me feel? Be vulnerable? And you know,

1310
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: for you, you know, it's a tricky subject because it's hard.

1311
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: I don't like it either. I don't like seeing people

1312
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 1: seeing me cry. And I cry every time I talk

1313
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: about this book. So I'm going to be crying for

1314
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: the next three months. Oh my god, I'm not looking

1315
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: forward to that. I love how honest you are about

1316
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 1: your life. I love how honest you are about your

1317
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: own shortcomings in this book. I love how you express

1318
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 1: the importance of getting to know yourself in order to

1319
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 1: be able to be the best version of yourself in

1320
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: the world. Like, there's so much about it that I

1321
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: love that how I've always loved how unapologetic you are.

1322
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: But yes, like showing a vulnerable side of you is

1323
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: going to be so impactful for so many people. We

1324
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: live in a world of perception and people have to

1325
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: sort of make determinations as to who people are in Hollywood.

1326
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: You're different this way. You have put yourself out there.

1327
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 1: Everyone knows who Chelsea is. So this book actually is

1328
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 1: sort of again a great book nd into sort of

1329
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: your next your next path, Like no one's going to

1330
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: think that this is there is anything but truth in this.

1331
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: You're not trying to sell a book. It doesn't feel

1332
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: that way. This is your truth. And if you read

1333
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,919
Speaker 1: your books, there's an evolution there, you know what I mean,

1334
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 1: from the first one to this one. And now it's

1335
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: almost like you have your on your way. Sorry, saying

1336
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 1: to Shawna yesterday, I was talking to an author in

1337
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: San Francisco that I was with a few weeks ago,

1338
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: and I said, she's a really Rebecca Solmna. She's an

1339
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: incredible author, and she writes all these great books men

1340
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: explain things. And I think you had hope in the

1341
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: dark up in your room. Anyway, she was saying, I go,

1342
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: I just feel like she had read my book. She

1343
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 1: had given me a blurb for it. So she I

1344
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 1: was having dinner with her and she said, you know,

1345
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: I just she goes, You're just I go, I don't

1346
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: really know what my talent is. I don't think I

1347
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 1: what and just a loud mouth. And she goes, No,

1348
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 1: you're a truth teller. You tell your true and you

1349
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 1: tell your story, and your story is going to help people.

1350
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 1: It always has your humor. You're just being honest with

1351
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: yourself and sometimes that's the only gift you need. And

1352
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,520
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, thank you. I was wondering what

1353
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: my fucking gift is. And it's like, if it's just

1354
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: talking it because you feel like an asshole talking about

1355
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: yourself all the time. I mean, we all know how

1356
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 1: that feels. So to make a living doing it feels

1357
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: gross too, But we do that too. And for me,

1358
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, just keep telling the truth and you'll

1359
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 1: have an impact. And by the way, who knows what

1360
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 1: the next half of your life is going to be.

1361
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: This whole Chelsea, Chelsea, Chelsea could be the beginning. That's

1362
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: the foundation for something much much bigger and greater. You

1363
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 1: actually are in this book telling everybody your story. You

1364
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: talk about family in a way that is like, oh, family,

1365
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 1: no matter how dysfunctional it is, is everything. The other

1366
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: thing is that we're all we're all we all have

1367
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: childhood trauma, all of us, all of them. So we're

1368
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 1: all in pain for some reason, yes, and that's what

1369
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: keeps us the same. So like, even though you're not unlocking,

1370
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 1: like even though my experience is different than yours, of

1371
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: course it's relatable because we've all had those moments that

1372
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,839
Speaker 1: have stained us forever or put us in a certain

1373
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: path forever. And the message is to unlock it to like,

1374
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 1: you're worth discovering, you're worth spending the time to get

1375
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 1: past it. But you did hit on something in this again,

1376
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 1: which is that you have to deal with your own

1377
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 1: shit in order to actually be able to go out

1378
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 1: and entirely help people entirely. Who calls the other more?

1379
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: I think you call me more? Yeah, yeah, Okay, I'll

1380
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 1: accept that. I do that because I always feel like

1381
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 1: she's probably in the middle of something. She's busy, she's busy,

1382
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 1: and I want to but I'm like, you know, she'll

1383
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 1: be markedly be annoyed because she's right in the middle

1384
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: of filming something. Okay, okay, next question, the last I mean,

1385
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: we know the answers to this one. Who gets the

1386
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: last word during an argument. I mean, just like, do

1387
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: you even argue with her? Would you even attempt it?

1388
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 1: As I've gotten older, I have attempted more often. But

1389
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 1: you know, how do you stand politically? Well, we're with

1390
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 1: each other total. I don't know what you're talking because

1391
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: we don't have anything. But there's what are you arguing about?

1392
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 1: What are you guys arguing about at the rational the game? Huh?

1393
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: What are you guys arguing about? Nothing? No? When she

1394
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 1: when Kate sort of talks about the things that I

1395
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 1: let my kids do and the movies then the way

1396
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 1: I live my life with my kids, and I'm like,

1397
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 1: my kids are fucking awesome, Like, I'll do it the

1398
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: way I want to do it. He he lets his

1399
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:35,760
Speaker 1: kids watch things that I think. Here's the thing. They

1400
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: spend so much time together. I'm like, Oliver, you can't

1401
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 1: let the kids watch like the Exorcist. They're like eight,

1402
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 1: and it's terrible for that. Fine, right, And so for

1403
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 1: me that's where we argue. And I'm like, well, and

1404
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 1: this is where we're going to sit with dance sequel,

1405
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 1: and he's going to expect. I also think that you

1406
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 1: shelter your kids way too much. You don't let them

1407
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 1: do enough. You're live in fear. Oh I don't. You're

1408
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 1: extremely fearful of them getting her, dying, falling. And I

1409
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: mean strict, mean she's super yeah, very strict. I'm not

1410
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:12,759
Speaker 1: an Oliver is the opposite. Yeah, I mean I'm strict.

1411
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: I need to be. What's one thing you would change

1412
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: about your sibling? Well, that's a good question. Change. She's

1413
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 1: very restless. She's always like, you know, like has to

1414
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: jump off the couch and go get something, go do something.

1415
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 1: Even when we were like teenagers, you know, on the vineyard,

1416
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: she'd you know, I'm gonna go for a run. I

1417
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 1: want to go do this. I want to do that,

1418
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: like she couldn't just like like full it. But that's

1419
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: getting better too, that's actually I think that's adhd. I

1420
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: did I think I have add But Dan says he

1421
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: doesn't think I have it, And then it was an

1422
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 1: eight hour test and I was like, I definitely don't

1423
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: have the patience to take that. So I guess we'll

1424
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: just have to assume I have it. And what would

1425
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: you change about her or want her to change for

1426
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: herself something that would better her. I just always want

1427
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 1: her to be more empowered even though she is in

1428
01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: her mind Like for me, I want her to be

1429
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 1: more were in control of her destiny, like driving it,

1430
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: and that's what I want for everybody. So I think

1431
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 1: that's more of you know, there is a statistic that

1432
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: says that it's like seventy five percent of parents actually

1433
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: prefer one child over at the other. Well, I know

1434
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 1: what mine is. They'll never definitely all around, right, yeah,

1435
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,200
Speaker 1: they'll never admit it. But in your guys sibling group, well,

1436
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 1: I think my dad was just SMI with Chelsey just

1437
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 1: I mean it was he didn't really try to hide

1438
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: it or you know, did you have resentment at all

1439
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: for that? I mean, it was just kind of a joke.

1440
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody knew it, and it was like that's

1441
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: how it is, you know. And someone legitimately thinks she's

1442
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:44,799
Speaker 1: Dad's favorite still, so she didn't see it that way.

1443
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: So she's the delusional sister. He did like her, But

1444
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: then once I came along and I was like, Okay,

1445
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: things are going to start to happen here. Like I

1446
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:56,440
Speaker 1: think he just liked the idea that I was financially

1447
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I was successful, and that

1448
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 1: made it a huge big, you know, ranbo around me.

1449
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: My mom sounded like that probably didn't happen. She was

1450
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,760
Speaker 1: like just knitting and singing and saying okay to everybody.

1451
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 1: And Seanna was my mom's favorite, the closest to her.

1452
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: But I never felt jealous of it. I thought, oh,

1453
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:15,720
Speaker 1: those two are alike. Let them go do their thing

1454
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: and I'll go with the boys. Like they were very

1455
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,520
Speaker 1: close and so my mom. But I never felt marginalized

1456
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: by my mom more so than you know, them not

1457
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: picking me up from Hebrew School or whatever. Okay, so well,

1458
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 1: so for this one, actually this question, we are, Katie

1459
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: and I are basically making like a ten thousand dollars

1460
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 1: bet and tis at the end of the season once

1461
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 1: this is tallied up, and you'll know in a second,

1462
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: we give that to the charity of our choice. So

1463
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: after this interview, I get to choose my charity or

1464
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 1: he gives right. Who do you like more? You have

1465
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 1: to answer? We won't be offended after this interview, now,

1466
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, just take everything into this, take everything I like.

1467
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 1: My relationship with you is already peaked, you know what

1468
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:03,840
Speaker 1: I mean. So I have more affection for her right

1469
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: now because we're more similar and and I feel like

1470
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 1: I already might be crushing him. This might not be

1471
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 1: good for It's fine, it's fine, favorite, we've peaked. What

1472
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: I meant to say was that I like you more.

1473
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm attracted to you more. You're smarter, you're better looking. Parents.

1474
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: But I don't have a sister, so she's going to

1475
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:43,880
Speaker 1: go with Okay, okay, and I'm also attracted to you more. Yeah,

1476
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:50,439
Speaker 1: third sibling in here, so it's not Yeah, Glenn, your

1477
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 1: one year anniversary show. We're going to come back with

1478
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 1: all of our siblings the best and then you guys,

1479
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: all of our siblings will all get in the room

1480
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:02,440
Speaker 1: and just bang it out. All right, Love you guys,

1481
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Sibling Revelry is executive duced by

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01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 1: Kate Hudson, Alira Hudson and Simson. Supervising producer is Alison Presnank.

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01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 1: Editor is Josh Wendish. Music by Mark Hudson aka Uncle Mark.