WEBVTT - Bonus Episode | The Lion, the Boat, and the Lighthouse

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<v Speaker 1>Hi.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts,

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<v Speaker 2>home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs,

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<v Speaker 2>and many other great podcasts. Today, we're asking you, our listeners,

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<v Speaker 2>to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going

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<v Speaker 2>to help inform how we make podcasts in the future.

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<v Speaker 2>Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to

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<v Speaker 2>bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about important topics

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<v Speaker 2>that impact us all. So please go to Lava for

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<v Speaker 2>Good dot com slash survey and participate today. Thank you

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<v Speaker 2>for your support.

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<v Speaker 3>Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is

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<v Speaker 3>a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers

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<v Speaker 3>to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems,

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<v Speaker 3>including the failed War on drugs that has criminalized addiction,

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<v Speaker 3>fueled over incarceration, and shattered communities. By thirty five, Kelly

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<v Speaker 3>Lingard was an executive with a fortune twenty it company.

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<v Speaker 3>If you had asked her thoughts on addiction, she would

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<v Speaker 3>have said that addiction was about making bad choices and irresponsibility.

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<v Speaker 3>But after hearing the story of a woman in recovery,

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<v Speaker 3>Kelly's perspective shifted. She began to understand that addiction was

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<v Speaker 3>a problem of pain, not irresponsibility, as she discovered how

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<v Speaker 3>difficult it is for people to maintain their sobriety in

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<v Speaker 3>the long run. After watching too many women get sober

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<v Speaker 3>only to relapse and die within days or weeks of

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<v Speaker 3>completing a recovery program, Kelly knew she could use her

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<v Speaker 3>business skills to make a difference. She left her career

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<v Speaker 3>and started Unshattered with the mission of ending the addiction

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<v Speaker 3>relapse cycle. Unshattered employees women in recovery, training them to

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<v Speaker 3>make premium handbags from upcycled materials and providing them with

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<v Speaker 3>a compassionate community that helps them continue their journey beyond

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<v Speaker 3>sobriety to move toward healing and growth. It demonstrates a

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<v Speaker 3>smarter way of treating addiction that moves away from criminalization

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<v Speaker 3>and keeps people out of the system. Kelly Lingard is

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<v Speaker 3>one of the many entrepreneurs partnering with Stand Together to

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<v Speaker 3>drive solutions and education, healthcare, poverty, and criminal justice. To

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<v Speaker 3>learn more about addiction and the War on Drugs, listen

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<v Speaker 3>to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts or

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<v Speaker 3>wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v Speaker 4>I know it's crazy this morning, it's very ominous.

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<v Speaker 5>We're back testing testing.

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<v Speaker 4>That sounds good.

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<v Speaker 5>To the roof.

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<v Speaker 6>I think we're good.

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<v Speaker 7>What time do you have to be there?

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<v Speaker 8>According to the website, they say that start checking you

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<v Speaker 8>in it?

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<v Speaker 5>Eight fifteen.

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<v Speaker 7>Okay, So a few weeks ago, Kelsey and I flew

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<v Speaker 7>down to Florida. We met Judge Scott Cupp in a

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<v Speaker 7>parking lot of a public supermarket. Turns out Judge Cupp

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<v Speaker 7>had something he really wanted to talk to Leo about

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<v Speaker 7>in person. When we first found out that he had

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<v Speaker 7>arranged a visit with Leo and why, it just felt

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<v Speaker 7>like we should be there too. So we decided to

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<v Speaker 7>make the drive with him through the dense morning fog

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<v Speaker 7>of Bone Valley to Hardy Correctional Institution.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't know, I don't know how I feel.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I was gonna say, what are your expectations, Chris?

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<v Speaker 5>That's why I want to spend a lot of time.

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<v Speaker 8>I haven't seen him in eight years.

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<v Speaker 7>More than a decade ago. Scott Cup was Leo's defense lawyer.

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<v Speaker 7>At that time. Cup would occasionally make the drive to

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<v Speaker 7>Hardy to speak with Leo. It began as routine attorney visits,

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<v Speaker 7>but eventually it got to the point that Kup would

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<v Speaker 7>make the drive to Hardy even when he didn't have

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<v Speaker 7>any updates on Leo's case. He just go to talk

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<v Speaker 7>to Leo. Officially he was going in as a lawyer,

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<v Speaker 7>but really he was visiting as a friend. But in

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<v Speaker 7>twenty fourteen, Cupp was appointed to the bench by Florida

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<v Speaker 7>Governor Rick Scott. An appointment like that is a tremendous honor,

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<v Speaker 7>the opportunity of a lifetime, really, but Cupp also knew

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<v Speaker 7>that taking the bench would mean that he'd no longer

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<v Speaker 7>be able to represent Leo, and as a judge if

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<v Speaker 7>he continued to visit an inmate, that would raise eyebrows

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<v Speaker 7>within the legal community.

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<v Speaker 8>That was the last time I was going to ask

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<v Speaker 8>him that, because I know I went to see him

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<v Speaker 8>right after I found out I was gonna take the bench.

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<v Speaker 8>I saw him before that to kind of get his blessing,

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<v Speaker 8>and typical Leo, he just chewed my ass.

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<v Speaker 4>When you say, uh, he.

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<v Speaker 7>Chuged your ass like this call is from a correction

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<v Speaker 7>facility and his subject to monitoring and recording. I asked

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<v Speaker 7>Leo about that last conversation they had eight years ago.

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<v Speaker 7>The last time Leo had seen his former defense attorney,

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<v Speaker 7>his close friend, he was.

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<v Speaker 1>He was telling me that, you know, the governor was

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<v Speaker 1>appointing him to the bench and that would mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>certain things for us. The biggest thing was that he

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<v Speaker 1>would no longer be able to represent me, and he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want to make that decision by himself. And I

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<v Speaker 1>was blown away that he was, you know, giving me

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<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to sound up on it. And I told

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<v Speaker 1>him then, I said, Scott said, I cannot allow any

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<v Speaker 1>more sacrifice to this case, you know, and I'm definitely

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<v Speaker 1>not going to ask you to sacrifice your career for it.

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<v Speaker 1>And we were in tears, and he had said then

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<v Speaker 1>he said, I knew you were going to say something.

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<v Speaker 1>I told him, said, I am super proud of you

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<v Speaker 1>that there was absolutely nothing to discuss in this will

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<v Speaker 1>you will take that appointment and you will go out

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<v Speaker 1>and be the best damn judge that they have. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, that was my comfort in knowing that I

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<v Speaker 1>know somebody, I personally know somebody that works in the

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<v Speaker 1>judicial system that is upright, has integrity, is honest, and

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<v Speaker 1>is doing the right thing. That's who you want in

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<v Speaker 1>those positions. That's who we need protecting society.

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<v Speaker 8>Typical Leo, he just doesn't think of himself first. That's

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<v Speaker 8>what's got him through this. He thinks of everybody else

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<v Speaker 8>and those aren't just words. That's where he lives.

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<v Speaker 7>So with Leo's blessing, Scott Cupp became Judge Scott Cupp

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<v Speaker 7>in twenty fourteen.

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<v Speaker 8>Taking the bench. That was difficult because I knew at

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<v Speaker 8>that point I'm done. I can't do anything to help him.

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<v Speaker 8>But again I was wrong about that because then I

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<v Speaker 8>met you.

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<v Speaker 7>Since that day in twenty fourteen, Judge Cup hasn't seen

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<v Speaker 7>Leo and it hasn't been easy. He says, it felt

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<v Speaker 7>like he was abandoning him.

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<v Speaker 8>We stay in touch sporadically, you know, it's kind of

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<v Speaker 8>like a distant relative, you know, cards at the holidays.

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<v Speaker 8>But you know, now with what I've decided to do,

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<v Speaker 8>it's it's time for me to go see him.

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<v Speaker 7>So the three of us pile in the car and

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<v Speaker 7>start heading to Hardy. The expected drive time is one

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<v Speaker 7>hour and twenty six minutes.

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<v Speaker 5>Do you really name that?

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<v Speaker 4>Really?

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<v Speaker 5>I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, it's a thirty one.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, it's thirty one, sixty four seventeen.

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<v Speaker 7>All right, I get there, bangs Sitting Judges aren't prohibited

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<v Speaker 7>from visiting prison inmates in Florida, but it's unusual. Judge

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<v Speaker 7>Cup has sentenced defendants who are now serving time at Hardy,

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<v Speaker 7>and as an assistant state attorney, he'd prosecuted.

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<v Speaker 5>Men who have ended up in this prison.

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<v Speaker 7>So he's a little wary of being recognized during his

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<v Speaker 7>visit with Leo. And this time he won't be off

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<v Speaker 7>in a private attorney room. He'll be sitting in the

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<v Speaker 7>visitation room with all the other friends and family visiting

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<v Speaker 7>their incarcerated loved ones.

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<v Speaker 4>So, Scott, you said you've only ever been in a

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<v Speaker 4>prison for an attorney visit.

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<v Speaker 8>Yep, yeah, never been in as a private citizen.

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<v Speaker 4>How are you feeling about that?

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<v Speaker 5>Wow? I don't know. I really don't know.

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<v Speaker 8>I've been thinking about it obviously a lot, just a

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<v Speaker 8>lot of mixed feelings. I'm looking forward to seeing him.

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<v Speaker 8>It makes me sad to see him still like this.

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<v Speaker 8>It should be just two guys getting together chatting, right,

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<v Speaker 8>and it's one guy and any other guy's a prisoner. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 8>I almost was thinking about but then that would be

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<v Speaker 8>like really admitting that I'm old, and see now I

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<v Speaker 8>was gonna put on a piece of little piece of paper,

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<v Speaker 8>just a little bull of points. I remember to ask

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<v Speaker 8>him about the remember to talk about that, Remember to

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<v Speaker 8>talk about this. But then I went, now, you can't

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<v Speaker 8>do that.

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<v Speaker 4>That's what I do when I go there.

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<v Speaker 8>I mean, I don't have to make notes about the

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<v Speaker 8>the main reason I'm seeing them. It's just all these

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<v Speaker 8>other things, you know, these random things. And I remember

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<v Speaker 8>to tell him about this, Remember to tell him about that,

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<v Speaker 8>ask him about this.

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<v Speaker 4>You want to you want to run through your list

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<v Speaker 4>with this kind of commit it to memory.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell us what world.

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<v Speaker 5>It's just a bunch of random stuff. One of the

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<v Speaker 5>things I definitely want to talk.

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<v Speaker 8>To him about is the drawing he made for me.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, can you can you talk about that drawing?

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<v Speaker 5>Chrissy?

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<v Speaker 8>I think she sent me a the text picture of

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<v Speaker 8>this drawing that she said Leo had done in prison.

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<v Speaker 8>And it's of a lion and it's black. I don't

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<v Speaker 8>know if it's charcoal or a pencil or whatever it is,

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<v Speaker 8>but anyhow, it's just it was just really fantastic. And

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<v Speaker 8>she said that Leo had done it, and I just said,

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<v Speaker 8>if he ever does any more, tell him, you know,

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<v Speaker 8>I would really be interested in purchasing one. And several

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<v Speaker 8>weeks later I had been out of the office in

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<v Speaker 8>the morning, I think I came back and here's this

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<v Speaker 8>framed picture, the drawing of the lion, and it was

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<v Speaker 8>laying on my credenza writing in my chambers and Chrissy

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<v Speaker 8>had apparently dropped it off with a letter accompanying it

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<v Speaker 8>from Leo, and I was just I had to close

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<v Speaker 8>my tour, you know, pull myself back together. It was

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<v Speaker 8>it's unbelievable. And then a letter that went with it.

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<v Speaker 8>It was unsigned, and that, you know, it said at

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<v Speaker 8>the end one day that you know, when we can

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<v Speaker 8>get together, then.

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<v Speaker 5>He'll sign it.

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<v Speaker 7>Leo did a drawing for me too. It's a lighthouse

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<v Speaker 7>looking out over a rocky shore.

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<v Speaker 5>And rough water.

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<v Speaker 7>I keep it framed in my office when I'm sitting

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<v Speaker 7>at my desk, it's always in view.

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<v Speaker 5>I must have been him nervous, right, Yeah, I don't

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<v Speaker 5>know why.

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<v Speaker 8>It's just kind of I don't know, this is like

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<v Speaker 8>a kick off again, a lot of changes coming.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but he's worth it A question about it.

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<v Speaker 4>So we're basically here, this.

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<v Speaker 5>Baby, so that means as a mama.

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<v Speaker 8>Someone seems like less cars than usual.

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<v Speaker 4>Look good, only a few minutes after nine. Hopefully there's

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<v Speaker 4>not really a line.

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<v Speaker 5>My usual spot. Wow, Wow, what do we do now?

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<v Speaker 7>Just take a walk up to the Hearty c I

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<v Speaker 7>main unit. So you just want to bring your driver's license?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 5>I got my driver's license and twenty buckers. You do it?

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<v Speaker 5>You love everybody?

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah, Kelsey and I watch as Judge Cup walks toward

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<v Speaker 7>the entrance. He's dressed casually, jeans and a sweatshirt.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh h less related works.

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<v Speaker 2>You could see Leo.

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<v Speaker 5>I know.

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<v Speaker 4>It sucks being here and now I wh I's so close.

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<v Speaker 7>I know it's really really hard thinking about this. It's

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<v Speaker 7>been over a year since I last saw Leo. That

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<v Speaker 7>was when I went to see his band The Watchers

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<v Speaker 7>play in that concert. That was a really special visit

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<v Speaker 7>because instead of just sitting in a small room together,

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<v Speaker 7>Leo was able to give me a tour of the

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<v Speaker 7>war room where he prayed for Jeremy Scott. Apparently, as

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<v Speaker 7>a member of the media, I shouldn't have been permitted

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<v Speaker 7>to do that visit, and even though I'd been approved,

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<v Speaker 7>I'm now under review with the Florida Department of Corrections.

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<v Speaker 7>So for now, Kelsey and I aren't allowed to visit

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<v Speaker 7>with Leo. Visiting hours at Hardy run from nine am

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<v Speaker 7>to three pm, and Judge Cupp was planning on spending

0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 7>that whole time with Leo. So Kelsey and I walked

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:00.199
<v Speaker 7>back to the car.

0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 4>Anything you want to say about this experience? Droppings got

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 4>off about today?

0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:12.400
<v Speaker 1>WHOA what the fuck is?

0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.320
<v Speaker 5>Those things are about fifty yards away and they're that.

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.120
<v Speaker 4>Loud, big big cranes, the ones with the red heads.

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 4>I don't know which. I don't know what those ones

0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 4>are called? All right, Oh my gosh, I bet I

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 4>wonder if they're like having their moment in there right now.

0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:53.240
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. Okay, let's go. That's is all, okay.

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 7>We had a few hours to kill, so we drove

0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 7>around Bone Valley, grabbed lunch, and headed back to Hardy

0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 7>to pick up Judge Cup. We were standing in front

0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 7>of the main gate, looking toward the visitor pavilion. We

0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 7>watched as other inmates visited with their loved ones. One

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.720
<v Speaker 7>family was playing a game of cornhole. A couple affectionately

0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.320
<v Speaker 7>wrapped their arms around each other. Two young kids ran

0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:21.280
<v Speaker 7>through the pavilion, darting around tables and chasing each other laughing.

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.320
<v Speaker 7>These moments felt so intimate, like something we shouldn't be watching.

0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 7>But there we were on the outside, seeing it all

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.600
<v Speaker 7>through multiple layers of chain link fence and barbed wire.

0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.960
<v Speaker 5>So we were hoping maybe Leo can find someplace to

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 5>wave to us, but.

0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I don't know either.

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 7>While we were standing there, a prison official approached us.

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.120
<v Speaker 6>Hello, where does your bag a friend to visit?

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.960
<v Speaker 5>I have a question for you, pavilion.

0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.360
<v Speaker 6>It is it is we have an inmate that one

0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.080
<v Speaker 6>of our friends is going into, saying, we were just

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:02.800
<v Speaker 6>wondering if we could wave to them, but we don't

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:03.680
<v Speaker 6>think that's possible.

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 4>I know who you guys are you do I do?

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:08.840
<v Speaker 8>Ye?

0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:10.360
<v Speaker 6>You're here?

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 5>You know that I watched the twenty twenty in the podcast?

0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:20.240
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, okay, yeah, what do you think I can?

0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.560
<v Speaker 7>She asked us to turn off the tape recorder. That's

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.080
<v Speaker 7>when she told us that she's known Leo for years

0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 7>and she thinks he's innocent. It doesn't belong in prison.

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.440
<v Speaker 4>Oh, here comes Scott. He's just coming out from his

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 4>visit with Leo. We were able to wave at Leo,

0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:46.440
<v Speaker 4>and we saw Scott and Leo put their arms around

0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.040
<v Speaker 4>each other and hug and it was just really beautiful

0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 4>to be able to witness that. Okay, let's see hi,

0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.160
<v Speaker 4>I'm here with my microphone to put in your face.

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:09.880
<v Speaker 5>Starting to get used to it. Yeah, he I'm glad.

0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.240
<v Speaker 8>I'm glad I made the decision that I'm making.

0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:24.680
<v Speaker 5>I don't know, it's kind of let's walk back, ok.

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:26.919
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, we were just picking him up.

0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:27.199
<v Speaker 5>We'll leave.

0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.840
<v Speaker 4>I'm so sorry. Thank you.

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.879
<v Speaker 7>Once we got in the car, our ride back was

0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.320
<v Speaker 7>mostly quiet. It was clear to us the judge Cup

0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:44.840
<v Speaker 7>needed some time to process.

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.720
<v Speaker 8>It was pretty intense, it was pretty overwhelming. It was

0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 8>really nice to reconnect and just and I told him,

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.280
<v Speaker 8>I said, I just I think he wanted to too. I

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.200
<v Speaker 8>just wanted to talk about whatever whatever came up, and

0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 8>not anything too heavy. And then it just kind of

0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.400
<v Speaker 8>Then it got a little more intense when I told

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.880
<v Speaker 8>him what I was going to do and that I'm

0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.879
<v Speaker 8>planning to step off the bench effect at March first

0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 8>and go back to being his lawyer.

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.320
<v Speaker 5>So this is happening.

0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:34.359
<v Speaker 1>Listen, that's a pretty big statement. And as a friend,

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:41.600
<v Speaker 1>a close family friend, that's a weighty proposition for me.

0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.159
<v Speaker 7>I talked to Leo after the visit to ask him

0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.639
<v Speaker 7>how he felt about Judge Cupp's intention to leave the

0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:51.760
<v Speaker 7>bench and represent him again alongside his other lawyers.

0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I know a lot about Scott's background and

0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 1>long he's been an attorney. How long you worked as

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 1>a prosecutor, how long he worked as a defense attorney

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.400
<v Speaker 1>for me, and you know, and then worked his way

0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.439
<v Speaker 1>to the bench, you know what I mean. And I

0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 1>gotta i gotta think that's kind of been an aspiration

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:18.560
<v Speaker 1>of his, you know, for a long time. When he

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:22.280
<v Speaker 1>had asked to become my lawyer again, I'm like, you know,

0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.240
<v Speaker 1>my biggest concern that I had was that, you know,

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.040
<v Speaker 1>this was not something he was doing because he felt

0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 1>obligated and he felt responsible, or because Scott is not

0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.360
<v Speaker 1>the reason why I'm in prison. So I didn't want

0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.959
<v Speaker 1>Scott thinking that, you know, he had to do this

0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.840
<v Speaker 1>for me, because he doesn't owe me anything. Friends don't

0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.479
<v Speaker 1>owe friends. And we talked a little bit more, and

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 1>then he said, I noticed you didn't answer me, So

0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.879
<v Speaker 1>is that a yes sport or what I'm looking at him?

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:52.640
<v Speaker 1>He said, And I'm like, you know what he said,

0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.120
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna let me in. I said, Scott, I never

0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.160
<v Speaker 1>let you out, you know, so I mean not hard

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.560
<v Speaker 1>for me to let you in. And and I said,

0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.439
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to make sure that this is something

0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.439
<v Speaker 1>that you actually wanted to do. And he said, I

0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.359
<v Speaker 1>don't want to do this. I need to do this,

0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:11.000
<v Speaker 1>and he emphasized the need.

0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.360
<v Speaker 8>I just told, you know, can't never, can't ever let

0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:18.920
<v Speaker 8>it go. I guess I put him in a position

0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.120
<v Speaker 8>that if he protested too much, it's like, Okay, well,

0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:27.880
<v Speaker 8>I guess you'll have to find another lawyer. Yeah, I'm

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.360
<v Speaker 8>going to be devoting all my energy being singlely focused

0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.120
<v Speaker 8>on making sure he's out.

0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:35.399
<v Speaker 1>By the end of the visit, he was saying, I

0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 1>need you to, you know, keep your head above water

0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.600
<v Speaker 1>and everything. I said, I'm good. My superheroes back.

0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:41.639
<v Speaker 5>You know.

0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.360
<v Speaker 1>I had this analogy and my boat is going down.

0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking that the state has has torpedoed it, and

0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm going down, and Scott was always the one bailing

0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:52.199
<v Speaker 1>the water with me. I mean, you know, Scott's in

0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.200
<v Speaker 1>that boat with me, and he's feeling the emotion of it.

0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.800
<v Speaker 1>And that was always important to me. It was it

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:03.960
<v Speaker 1>was was the one thing that allowed me to get

0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.639
<v Speaker 1>emotional thinking about it. It allowed me to look for

0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:09.720
<v Speaker 1>another day to fight. I wouldn't even know what it

0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.560
<v Speaker 1>would be when the boat's going down. No one knows

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.040
<v Speaker 1>what the next step is going to be, just going down.

0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.240
<v Speaker 1>But I know that as long as I had Scott

0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:22.480
<v Speaker 1>with me, we'll find another door, We'll find another way

0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.320
<v Speaker 1>to get the boat above water. And you know, that's

0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 1>just the kind of guy that Scott really is.

0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.920
<v Speaker 7>Leo brings up this boat analogy all the time. He says,

0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.480
<v Speaker 7>Judge Cupp is in the boat with him, helping him

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 7>bail water from the sinking ship. Leo tells me that

0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.600
<v Speaker 7>I can't be in the boat. It's a legal fight,

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.200
<v Speaker 7>and what I'm doing telling his story is a different

0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.159
<v Speaker 7>kind of thing. He says he can't have me in

0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.560
<v Speaker 7>the boat going down with him. He says he needs

0:21:51.600 --> 0:22:04.960
<v Speaker 7>me to be the lighthouse guiding the boat to safety.

0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:10.800
<v Speaker 7>Judge Cup could stay on the bench for many more years,

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.959
<v Speaker 7>and that's usually what judges do. They often devote their

0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:17.720
<v Speaker 7>whole careers to trying to get and keep their seat

0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:21.520
<v Speaker 7>on the bench. But he's letting it all go to

0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:22.520
<v Speaker 7>get back in the boat.

0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:22.920
<v Speaker 5>With Leo.

0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.720
<v Speaker 7>Judge Cup's letter is short and to the point. It reads,

0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:45.719
<v Speaker 7>Dear Governor DeSantis, please accept this as my letter of resignation.

0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:50.880
<v Speaker 7>My last day will be March first, twenty twenty three.

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.040
<v Speaker 7>I have enjoyed and am grateful for my time spent

0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.439
<v Speaker 7>on the bench in the twentieth Circuit. I look forward

0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 7>to the opportunities and challenges of returning to private practice. Sincerely,

0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.200
<v Speaker 7>Scott H. Cup, Circuit.

0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:14.679
<v Speaker 1>Judge, you have one minute remaining.

0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:19.040
<v Speaker 6>Well listen. I just want to tell you, just standing

0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.159
<v Speaker 6>outside the prison and seeing you through that fence was

0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.720
<v Speaker 6>a really bittersweet for both Kelsey and I. It was

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 6>just really hard to just wave to you and not

0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:29.560
<v Speaker 6>be able to come over to you.

0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, but I think you.

0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:35.120
<v Speaker 6>Know, okay, I think we knew where our heart's were

0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:36.840
<v Speaker 6>at that moment, yelling.

0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Across our hearts will want as they will continue to be.

0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:43.840
<v Speaker 5>I love you, Bud, Thank you too much.

0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:48.760
<v Speaker 6>Okay, Buddy, thank you for calling. We'll talk sooner, sir, anytime.

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:49.159
<v Speaker 1>Buddy.

0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Good night, you too, man.

0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:53.920
<v Speaker 5>Thanks bye.

0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:02.639
<v Speaker 7>Many of you have been reaching out to me asking

0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:06.119
<v Speaker 7>what you can do to help Leo. Right now, the

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:08.520
<v Speaker 7>best thing to do is to sign the petition that's

0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:10.960
<v Speaker 7>been set up by the Innocence Project of Florida to

0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:14.040
<v Speaker 7>have Leo's case transferred to a different circuit for an

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:18.000
<v Speaker 7>independent review. You can find the change dot org petition

0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:30.400
<v Speaker 7>in our show notes. Follow the Bone Valley podcast for updates.