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Speaker 4: I know it's crazy this morning, it's very ominous.
Speaker 5: We're back testing testing.
Speaker 4: That sounds good.
Speaker 5: To the roof.
Speaker 6: I think we're good.
Speaker 7: What time do you have to be there?
Speaker 8: According to the website, they say that start checking you
Speaker 8: in it?
Speaker 5: Eight fifteen.
Speaker 7: Okay, So a few weeks ago, Kelsey and I flew
Speaker 7: down to Florida. We met Judge Scott Cupp in a
Speaker 7: parking lot of a public supermarket. Turns out Judge Cupp
Speaker 7: had something he really wanted to talk to Leo about
Speaker 7: in person. When we first found out that he had
Speaker 7: arranged a visit with Leo and why, it just felt
Speaker 7: like we should be there too. So we decided to
Speaker 7: make the drive with him through the dense morning fog
Speaker 7: of Bone Valley to Hardy Correctional Institution.
Speaker 5: I don't know, I don't know how I feel.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was gonna say, what are your expectations, Chris?
Speaker 5: That's why I want to spend a lot of time.
Speaker 8: I haven't seen him in eight years.
Speaker 7: More than a decade ago. Scott Cup was Leo's defense lawyer.
Speaker 7: At that time. Cup would occasionally make the drive to
Speaker 7: Hardy to speak with Leo. It began as routine attorney visits,
Speaker 7: but eventually it got to the point that Kup would
Speaker 7: make the drive to Hardy even when he didn't have
Speaker 7: any updates on Leo's case. He just go to talk
Speaker 7: to Leo. Officially he was going in as a lawyer,
Speaker 7: but really he was visiting as a friend. But in
Speaker 7: twenty fourteen, Cupp was appointed to the bench by Florida
Speaker 7: Governor Rick Scott. An appointment like that is a tremendous honor,
Speaker 7: the opportunity of a lifetime, really, but Cupp also knew
Speaker 7: that taking the bench would mean that he'd no longer
Speaker 7: be able to represent Leo, and as a judge if
Speaker 7: he continued to visit an inmate, that would raise eyebrows
Speaker 7: within the legal community.
Speaker 8: That was the last time I was going to ask
Speaker 8: him that, because I know I went to see him
Speaker 8: right after I found out I was gonna take the bench.
Speaker 8: I saw him before that to kind of get his blessing,
Speaker 8: and typical Leo, he just chewed my ass.
Speaker 4: When you say, uh, he.
Speaker 7: Chuged your ass like this call is from a correction
Speaker 7: facility and his subject to monitoring and recording. I asked
Speaker 7: Leo about that last conversation they had eight years ago.
Speaker 7: The last time Leo had seen his former defense attorney,
Speaker 7: his close friend, he was.
Speaker 1: He was telling me that, you know, the governor was
Speaker 1: appointing him to the bench and that would mean, you know,
Speaker 1: certain things for us. The biggest thing was that he
Speaker 1: would no longer be able to represent me, and he
Speaker 1: didn't want to make that decision by himself. And I
Speaker 1: was blown away that he was, you know, giving me
Speaker 1: the opportunity to sound up on it. And I told
Speaker 1: him then, I said, Scott said, I cannot allow any
Speaker 1: more sacrifice to this case, you know, and I'm definitely
Speaker 1: not going to ask you to sacrifice your career for it.
Speaker 1: And we were in tears, and he had said then
Speaker 1: he said, I knew you were going to say something.
Speaker 1: I told him, said, I am super proud of you
Speaker 1: that there was absolutely nothing to discuss in this will
Speaker 1: you will take that appointment and you will go out
Speaker 1: and be the best damn judge that they have. But
Speaker 1: you know, that was my comfort in knowing that I
Speaker 1: know somebody, I personally know somebody that works in the
Speaker 1: judicial system that is upright, has integrity, is honest, and
Speaker 1: is doing the right thing. That's who you want in
Speaker 1: those positions. That's who we need protecting society.
Speaker 8: Typical Leo, he just doesn't think of himself first. That's
Speaker 8: what's got him through this. He thinks of everybody else
Speaker 8: and those aren't just words. That's where he lives.
Speaker 7: So with Leo's blessing, Scott Cupp became Judge Scott Cupp
Speaker 7: in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 8: Taking the bench. That was difficult because I knew at
Speaker 8: that point I'm done. I can't do anything to help him.
Speaker 8: But again I was wrong about that because then I
Speaker 8: met you.
Speaker 7: Since that day in twenty fourteen, Judge Cup hasn't seen
Speaker 7: Leo and it hasn't been easy. He says, it felt
Speaker 7: like he was abandoning him.
Speaker 8: We stay in touch sporadically, you know, it's kind of
Speaker 8: like a distant relative, you know, cards at the holidays.
Speaker 8: But you know, now with what I've decided to do,
Speaker 8: it's it's time for me to go see him.
Speaker 7: So the three of us pile in the car and
Speaker 7: start heading to Hardy. The expected drive time is one
Speaker 7: hour and twenty six minutes.
Speaker 5: Do you really name that?
Speaker 4: Really?
Speaker 5: I don't think so.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a thirty one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's thirty one, sixty four seventeen.
Speaker 7: All right, I get there, bangs Sitting Judges aren't prohibited
Speaker 7: from visiting prison inmates in Florida, but it's unusual. Judge
Speaker 7: Cup has sentenced defendants who are now serving time at Hardy,
Speaker 7: and as an assistant state attorney, he'd prosecuted.
Speaker 5: Men who have ended up in this prison.
Speaker 7: So he's a little wary of being recognized during his
Speaker 7: visit with Leo. And this time he won't be off
Speaker 7: in a private attorney room. He'll be sitting in the
Speaker 7: visitation room with all the other friends and family visiting
Speaker 7: their incarcerated loved ones.
Speaker 4: So, Scott, you said you've only ever been in a
Speaker 4: prison for an attorney visit.
Speaker 8: Yep, yeah, never been in as a private citizen.
Speaker 4: How are you feeling about that?
Speaker 5: Wow? I don't know. I really don't know.
Speaker 8: I've been thinking about it obviously a lot, just a
Speaker 8: lot of mixed feelings. I'm looking forward to seeing him.
Speaker 8: It makes me sad to see him still like this.
Speaker 8: It should be just two guys getting together chatting, right,
Speaker 8: and it's one guy and any other guy's a prisoner. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 8: I almost was thinking about but then that would be
Speaker 8: like really admitting that I'm old, and see now I
Speaker 8: was gonna put on a piece of little piece of paper,
Speaker 8: just a little bull of points. I remember to ask
Speaker 8: him about the remember to talk about that, Remember to
Speaker 8: talk about this. But then I went, now, you can't
Speaker 8: do that.
Speaker 4: That's what I do when I go there.
Speaker 8: I mean, I don't have to make notes about the
Speaker 8: the main reason I'm seeing them. It's just all these
Speaker 8: other things, you know, these random things. And I remember
Speaker 8: to tell him about this, Remember to tell him about that,
Speaker 8: ask him about this.
Speaker 4: You want to you want to run through your list
Speaker 4: with this kind of commit it to memory.
Speaker 1: Tell us what world.
Speaker 5: It's just a bunch of random stuff. One of the
Speaker 5: things I definitely want to talk.
Speaker 8: To him about is the drawing he made for me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, can you can you talk about that drawing?
Speaker 5: Chrissy?
Speaker 8: I think she sent me a the text picture of
Speaker 8: this drawing that she said Leo had done in prison.
Speaker 8: And it's of a lion and it's black. I don't
Speaker 8: know if it's charcoal or a pencil or whatever it is,
Speaker 8: but anyhow, it's just it was just really fantastic. And
Speaker 8: she said that Leo had done it, and I just said,
Speaker 8: if he ever does any more, tell him, you know,
Speaker 8: I would really be interested in purchasing one. And several
Speaker 8: weeks later I had been out of the office in
Speaker 8: the morning, I think I came back and here's this
Speaker 8: framed picture, the drawing of the lion, and it was
Speaker 8: laying on my credenza writing in my chambers and Chrissy
Speaker 8: had apparently dropped it off with a letter accompanying it
Speaker 8: from Leo, and I was just I had to close
Speaker 8: my tour, you know, pull myself back together. It was
Speaker 8: it's unbelievable. And then a letter that went with it.
Speaker 8: It was unsigned, and that, you know, it said at
Speaker 8: the end one day that you know, when we can
Speaker 8: get together, then.
Speaker 5: He'll sign it.
Speaker 7: Leo did a drawing for me too. It's a lighthouse
Speaker 7: looking out over a rocky shore.
Speaker 5: And rough water.
Speaker 7: I keep it framed in my office when I'm sitting
Speaker 7: at my desk, it's always in view.
Speaker 5: I must have been him nervous, right, Yeah, I don't
Speaker 5: know why.
Speaker 8: It's just kind of I don't know, this is like
Speaker 8: a kick off again, a lot of changes coming.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but he's worth it A question about it.
Speaker 4: So we're basically here, this.
Speaker 5: Baby, so that means as a mama.
Speaker 8: Someone seems like less cars than usual.
Speaker 4: Look good, only a few minutes after nine. Hopefully there's
Speaker 4: not really a line.
Speaker 5: My usual spot. Wow, Wow, what do we do now?
Speaker 7: Just take a walk up to the Hearty c I
Speaker 7: main unit. So you just want to bring your driver's license?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I got my driver's license and twenty buckers. You do it?
Speaker 5: You love everybody?
Speaker 7: Yeah, Kelsey and I watch as Judge Cup walks toward
Speaker 7: the entrance. He's dressed casually, jeans and a sweatshirt.
Speaker 1: Oh h less related works.
Speaker 2: You could see Leo.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 4: It sucks being here and now I wh I's so close.
Speaker 7: I know it's really really hard thinking about this. It's
Speaker 7: been over a year since I last saw Leo. That
Speaker 7: was when I went to see his band The Watchers
Speaker 7: play in that concert. That was a really special visit
Speaker 7: because instead of just sitting in a small room together,
Speaker 7: Leo was able to give me a tour of the
Speaker 7: war room where he prayed for Jeremy Scott. Apparently, as
Speaker 7: a member of the media, I shouldn't have been permitted
Speaker 7: to do that visit, and even though I'd been approved,
Speaker 7: I'm now under review with the Florida Department of Corrections.
Speaker 7: So for now, Kelsey and I aren't allowed to visit
Speaker 7: with Leo. Visiting hours at Hardy run from nine am
Speaker 7: to three pm, and Judge Cupp was planning on spending
Speaker 7: that whole time with Leo. So Kelsey and I walked
Speaker 7: back to the car.
Speaker 4: Anything you want to say about this experience? Droppings got
Speaker 4: off about today?
Speaker 1: WHOA what the fuck is?
Speaker 5: Those things are about fifty yards away and they're that.
Speaker 4: Loud, big big cranes, the ones with the red heads.
Speaker 4: I don't know which. I don't know what those ones
Speaker 4: are called? All right, Oh my gosh, I bet I
Speaker 4: wonder if they're like having their moment in there right now.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Okay, let's go. That's is all, okay.
Speaker 7: We had a few hours to kill, so we drove
Speaker 7: around Bone Valley, grabbed lunch, and headed back to Hardy
Speaker 7: to pick up Judge Cup. We were standing in front
Speaker 7: of the main gate, looking toward the visitor pavilion. We
Speaker 7: watched as other inmates visited with their loved ones. One
Speaker 7: family was playing a game of cornhole. A couple affectionately
Speaker 7: wrapped their arms around each other. Two young kids ran
Speaker 7: through the pavilion, darting around tables and chasing each other laughing.
Speaker 7: These moments felt so intimate, like something we shouldn't be watching.
Speaker 7: But there we were on the outside, seeing it all
Speaker 7: through multiple layers of chain link fence and barbed wire.
Speaker 5: So we were hoping maybe Leo can find someplace to
Speaker 5: wave to us, but.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know either.
Speaker 7: While we were standing there, a prison official approached us.
Speaker 6: Hello, where does your bag a friend to visit?
Speaker 5: I have a question for you, pavilion.
Speaker 6: It is it is we have an inmate that one
Speaker 6: of our friends is going into, saying, we were just
Speaker 6: wondering if we could wave to them, but we don't
Speaker 6: think that's possible.
Speaker 4: I know who you guys are you do I do?
Speaker 8: Ye?
Speaker 6: You're here?
Speaker 5: You know that I watched the twenty twenty in the podcast?
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, what do you think I can?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: She asked us to turn off the tape recorder. That's
Speaker 7: when she told us that she's known Leo for years
Speaker 7: and she thinks he's innocent. It doesn't belong in prison.
Speaker 4: Oh, here comes Scott. He's just coming out from his
Speaker 4: visit with Leo. We were able to wave at Leo,
Speaker 4: and we saw Scott and Leo put their arms around
Speaker 4: each other and hug and it was just really beautiful
Speaker 4: to be able to witness that. Okay, let's see hi,
Speaker 4: I'm here with my microphone to put in your face.
Speaker 5: Starting to get used to it. Yeah, he I'm glad.
Speaker 8: I'm glad I made the decision that I'm making.
Speaker 5: I don't know, it's kind of let's walk back, ok.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we were just picking him up.
Speaker 5: We'll leave.
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. Thank you.
Speaker 7: Once we got in the car, our ride back was
Speaker 7: mostly quiet. It was clear to us the judge Cup
Speaker 7: needed some time to process.
Speaker 8: It was pretty intense, it was pretty overwhelming. It was
Speaker 8: really nice to reconnect and just and I told him,
Speaker 8: I said, I just I think he wanted to too. I
Speaker 8: just wanted to talk about whatever whatever came up, and
Speaker 8: not anything too heavy. And then it just kind of
Speaker 8: Then it got a little more intense when I told
Speaker 8: him what I was going to do and that I'm
Speaker 8: planning to step off the bench effect at March first
Speaker 8: and go back to being his lawyer.
Speaker 5: So this is happening.
Speaker 1: Listen, that's a pretty big statement. And as a friend,
Speaker 1: a close family friend, that's a weighty proposition for me.
Speaker 7: I talked to Leo after the visit to ask him
Speaker 7: how he felt about Judge Cupp's intention to leave the
Speaker 7: bench and represent him again alongside his other lawyers.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know a lot about Scott's background and
Speaker 1: long he's been an attorney. How long you worked as
Speaker 1: a prosecutor, how long he worked as a defense attorney
Speaker 1: for me, and you know, and then worked his way
Speaker 1: to the bench, you know what I mean. And I
Speaker 1: gotta i gotta think that's kind of been an aspiration
Speaker 1: of his, you know, for a long time. When he
Speaker 1: had asked to become my lawyer again, I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: my biggest concern that I had was that, you know,
Speaker 1: this was not something he was doing because he felt
Speaker 1: obligated and he felt responsible, or because Scott is not
Speaker 1: the reason why I'm in prison. So I didn't want
Speaker 1: Scott thinking that, you know, he had to do this
Speaker 1: for me, because he doesn't owe me anything. Friends don't
Speaker 1: owe friends. And we talked a little bit more, and
Speaker 1: then he said, I noticed you didn't answer me, So
Speaker 1: is that a yes sport or what I'm looking at him?
Speaker 1: He said, And I'm like, you know what he said,
Speaker 1: you're gonna let me in. I said, Scott, I never
Speaker 1: let you out, you know, so I mean not hard
Speaker 1: for me to let you in. And and I said,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure that this is something
Speaker 1: that you actually wanted to do. And he said, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do this. I need to do this,
Speaker 1: and he emphasized the need.
Speaker 8: I just told, you know, can't never, can't ever let
Speaker 8: it go. I guess I put him in a position
Speaker 8: that if he protested too much, it's like, Okay, well,
Speaker 8: I guess you'll have to find another lawyer. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 8: going to be devoting all my energy being singlely focused
Speaker 8: on making sure he's out.
Speaker 1: By the end of the visit, he was saying, I
Speaker 1: need you to, you know, keep your head above water
Speaker 1: and everything. I said, I'm good. My superheroes back.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: I had this analogy and my boat is going down.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that the state has has torpedoed it, and
Speaker 1: I'm going down, and Scott was always the one bailing
Speaker 1: the water with me. I mean, you know, Scott's in
Speaker 1: that boat with me, and he's feeling the emotion of it.
Speaker 1: And that was always important to me. It was it
Speaker 1: was was the one thing that allowed me to get
Speaker 1: emotional thinking about it. It allowed me to look for
Speaker 1: another day to fight. I wouldn't even know what it
Speaker 1: would be when the boat's going down. No one knows
Speaker 1: what the next step is going to be, just going down.
Speaker 1: But I know that as long as I had Scott
Speaker 1: with me, we'll find another door, We'll find another way
Speaker 1: to get the boat above water. And you know, that's
Speaker 1: just the kind of guy that Scott really is.
Speaker 7: Leo brings up this boat analogy all the time. He says,
Speaker 7: Judge Cupp is in the boat with him, helping him
Speaker 7: bail water from the sinking ship. Leo tells me that
Speaker 7: I can't be in the boat. It's a legal fight,
Speaker 7: and what I'm doing telling his story is a different
Speaker 7: kind of thing. He says he can't have me in
Speaker 7: the boat going down with him. He says he needs
Speaker 7: me to be the lighthouse guiding the boat to safety.
Speaker 7: Judge Cup could stay on the bench for many more years,
Speaker 7: and that's usually what judges do. They often devote their
Speaker 7: whole careers to trying to get and keep their seat
Speaker 7: on the bench. But he's letting it all go to
Speaker 7: get back in the boat.
Speaker 5: With Leo.
Speaker 7: Judge Cup's letter is short and to the point. It reads,
Speaker 7: Dear Governor DeSantis, please accept this as my letter of resignation.
Speaker 7: My last day will be March first, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7: I have enjoyed and am grateful for my time spent
Speaker 7: on the bench in the twentieth Circuit. I look forward
Speaker 7: to the opportunities and challenges of returning to private practice. Sincerely,
Speaker 7: Scott H. Cup, Circuit.
Speaker 1: Judge, you have one minute remaining.
Speaker 6: Well listen. I just want to tell you, just standing
Speaker 6: outside the prison and seeing you through that fence was
Speaker 6: a really bittersweet for both Kelsey and I. It was
Speaker 6: just really hard to just wave to you and not
Speaker 6: be able to come over to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, but I think you.
Speaker 6: Know, okay, I think we knew where our heart's were
Speaker 6: at that moment, yelling.
Speaker 1: Across our hearts will want as they will continue to be.
Speaker 5: I love you, Bud, Thank you too much.
Speaker 6: Okay, Buddy, thank you for calling. We'll talk sooner, sir, anytime.
Speaker 1: Buddy.
Speaker 2: Good night, you too, man.
Speaker 5: Thanks bye.
Speaker 7: Many of you have been reaching out to me asking
Speaker 7: what you can do to help Leo. Right now, the
Speaker 7: best thing to do is to sign the petition that's
Speaker 7: been set up by the Innocence Project of Florida to
Speaker 7: have Leo's case transferred to a different circuit for an
Speaker 7: independent review. You can find the change dot org petition
Speaker 7: in our show notes. Follow the Bone Valley podcast for updates.