1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up, everybody, 2 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire for for Friday, April sixteenth, 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: A great podcast ahead. I spoke with Steve Lavin, the 4 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: former u c l A and St. John's coach, A 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: real sharp, analytical mind. If you're interested in becoming a 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: future coach in basketball, this is mandatory listening. Also just 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: life stories and life in general. Lavin is a very 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: smart man, great announcer for Fox Sports, and uh, I 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: think you're gonna really like coach Lavin. Before we get 10 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: to that, I thought we'd spend a few minutes briefly 11 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: chopping up the LaMarcus Aldridge retirement as stunning retirement. On 12 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: Thursday morning. LaMarcus Aldridge played Saturday in that Nets Lakers game. 13 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: We talked about it a bit one Day's podcast, and 14 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: then he didn't play for a couple of games. And 15 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: it's because he they developed a irregular heartbeat, and Aldredge 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: abruptly retired at the age of thirty five. I know 17 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: it's a little bit young, He's probably still got a 18 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: year or two left in the tank, but you know, overwhelmingly, 19 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: the talk quickly becomes anytime a star retires, and yes, 20 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: LaMarcus Aldridge was a star, the question becomes like, oh, well, 21 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: how do you handicap his history and um stature and 22 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: is he a Hall of Famer? And I'm just gonna 23 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: get this out of the way quickly and early. Just 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: because he played in Portland and San Antonio, don't disregard him. Okay, 25 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: this is a problem we do in the NBA all 26 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: the time. We talked to Marj Rosen Reggie Miller earlier 27 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: this week. De Rosen played in Canada and San Antonio. 28 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: And when you play in an outpost, unless you're like 29 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: a finals m v P, like a Tim Uncan in 30 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: San Antonio or Tony Parker, or you're a historically great 31 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: six man like Man of Genoble, who also was like 32 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: a global star given what he did in the Olympics. Um, 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: you got forgotten and I'm just gonna put some numbers 34 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: out here for you that's probably gonna surprise you. LaMarcus 35 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: Aldred's first career average nineteen and eight. He has never 36 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: made the finals. Um, which obviously is going to be 37 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: a mark against him. Um, what you know, making the 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: finals is a team thing. In Portland was close a bunch, 39 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: but never could get over the hump. He got the 40 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: San Antonio and has produced well there for four years. 41 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean, twenty three and eight, twenty one and nine 42 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: like those are not numbers to scoff at and LaMarcus 43 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: Aldred's folks, this is the one that jumped out of me. 44 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: All NBA five times All NBA is basically saying you 45 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: were the best, second best or third best at your 46 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: position in the league. And I don't want to pick 47 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: on Reggie Miller. He only got three All NBA recognitions 48 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: in his career, never first or second team. Okay, LaMarcus 49 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: Aldridge has a better resume than a lot of people. 50 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: You probably think he doesn't have a better one. Three 51 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: times All NBA Third Team, twice All NBA Second Team, Folks, 52 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: Kevin Love has only been All NBA twice and oh, 53 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: by the way, LaMarcus Aldridge fifteen NBA seasons, Kevin Love. 54 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: Aldridge has been in the playoffs far more than Love. 55 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: And I know Love had some injuries, but we think 56 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: of Kevin Love is just remember, oh he joined the 57 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: super team with Lebron. Really, you know, Kevin Love was 58 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: super on a bad team. And I'm not going after 59 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: Kevin Love. Really nice player, but LaMarcus Aldridge had a 60 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: better career than him, without a shadow of a doubt. 61 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: And I know Aldridge wasn't a three point shooter. And 62 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: this is another thing to bring up Reggie Miller de 63 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: Rosin like de Rosen is dinged because he wasn't a 64 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: three point guy in the three point era. Aldridge never 65 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: became the Stretch four or Stretch five that a lot 66 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: of other bigs did. Uh, Rob G. I think undeniably 67 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: LaMarcus Aldridge is a Hall of Famer. Do you agree? 68 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: I do, Um, And I'm surprised you brought up Kevin 69 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: Love because I had someone that I in mind while 70 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: you were speaking that I think maybe it's not an 71 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: apples to apples comparison, but I think it's an interesting comparison, 72 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: and that would be Chris Bosh. That was the next 73 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: guy I had see great minds think alike. Um, you know, 74 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: Chris Bosh has more All Star appearances, he has the 75 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: rings from going to Miami. But if you were to 76 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: stack their careers that statistically, I think Audrey's hasn't beat 77 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: he and Bosh only made All NBA Second Team once once, 78 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: so I mean, I know that we are in the 79 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: rings culture where if you know, if you count the rings, 80 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: if you don't have them, then you know it's it's 81 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: a big demerit on your record. But LaMarcus Aldridge was very, very, 82 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: very good for a long time and he just happened 83 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, 84 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 1: and in that case it was Portland's during the height 85 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: of the Western Conference blood bath. You know, he he 86 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: got the tail end of Kobe and Pow, he got 87 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: the start of okay see with kay d Harden and Westbrook. 88 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: You know, he by the time he had a consistent 89 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: running mate because you know, he was with Brandon Roy 90 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: before Brandon Roy's knees gave out, he had a young 91 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: Dame Lillard and not you know, Dame was good or 92 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: very good right in the start, but he was not 93 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: the Dame Dollar that we know now. So you know, 94 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: it's just tough. And then he got he goes to 95 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 1: San Antonio and he's blocked by the Golden State Warriors 96 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: with Katie Stephen Clay. So he's he's a victim of 97 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: circumstance in that regardless as of worse to get in 98 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: the rings. But his career was very impressive, and um, 99 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: I would definitely vote him for the Hall of Fame. Yeah, 100 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: this I ea that you can just take guys and say, oh, 101 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: Chris Bosh, she's All of Famer. You got a bunch 102 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: of rings like um, Chris Bosh was phenomenal in Toronto 103 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: and could never get the Raptors over the hump. So 104 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 1: he goes to Miami and I don't know was what 105 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: was the third fourth best player on some of those teams. 106 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: He definitely was not better than Lebron, definitely was not 107 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: better than Wade. And you know, I'm sure some people 108 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: would argue that, you know, Ray Allen was more important 109 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: than Chris Bosh to an extent. Um, Chris Bosh was 110 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: a great player. And that's the problem. Rob. When we say, oh, yeah, 111 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: Lamark Salders had a better career than Bosh had a 112 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: better career than Kevin Love, people will say, no, no, no, no, 113 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: he doesn't have any rings like That's just that's not 114 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: how it works. And if you're gonna be reductive like that, 115 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: you know and make the conversation dumber. I don't want 116 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: to be on a conversation with you. I was gonna 117 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: try to compare LaMarcus Alders to a guy like Kevin 118 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: McHale who was always second best, maybe third best player 119 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: on those Bird Celtics teams. But the cross era is 120 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: very challenging. Is that too much of a reach on 121 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: my behalf? Rock? Uh? Well, the cross area is one. 122 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: But the other thing I think is tough to compare 123 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: is that you're the McHale was part of one of 124 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: the all time great teams in NBA history. So it's 125 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: it's a really tough comparison at least, you know, even 126 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: with Love and Bosh, even though they have rings, I 127 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: don't think anybody's ever going to argue that those Calves 128 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: teams or those Heat teams are all time great teams. 129 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: They just happen to win a championship. Yeah, now you're right. Um, 130 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: So is there a better comp for LaMarcus Soldiers Like 131 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: this one's gonna hurt um better career Chris Webber or 132 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: LaMarcus Aldridge? Oh my goodness? Um? And that that's a 133 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: really tough because listen, see Webb has a place, Oh 134 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: my goodness. They both played fifteen seasons. Webber ten playoffs, 135 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: Aldridge nine. Aldridge has a slight edge and all Star Games, 136 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: All NBA First Team see WEB one. All NBA Total 137 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: see WEB five. Aldridge five. Thank goodness, I can say 138 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: Chris Webber, he's got it, He's got the edge. I 139 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: would lean Chris Webber, and that's only because as a 140 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: Laker fan, I saw a lot of Chris Webber in 141 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: the playoffs, and those teams I will go to my 142 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: deathbed saying are the greatest teams to never win a championship. Yeah, 143 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: Webber average twenty and nine, which is better than Aldridge 144 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: is nineteen and eight. Webber, this is where he has him. 145 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: He was one of the best passing Big Ben. Four 146 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: assists per game, more steals, more blocks. Yeah, that's a 147 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: no comparison Webber and Webber. By the way, Webber is 148 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: not in the whole of Fame, so maybe Aldridge has 149 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: an uphill climb. Oh that's not good news for Aldridge. Well, 150 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: you know a lot of this stuff is politics, because 151 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: you know, if we were to just do it on merit, 152 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: I mean, they let everybody into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Yeah, 153 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: I think I think I got in as a contributor 154 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: like two years ago, but I'm looking to get in 155 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: again later as like a media member. That nice. By 156 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: the way, Tea Mac, you know one of my all 157 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: time favorite players. I just need to put that out there. 158 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: Not not above sea web, but he's certainly up there. 159 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: Um t Mac loved him. So anyways, we just wanted 160 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: to give some props briefly to LaMarcus Aldridge, who retired 161 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: at the age of thirty five. I'm curious, Rob, do 162 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,599 Speaker 1: you think this hurts helps no impact to the Nets 163 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: um attempted run at the title. I'll tell you what. 164 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: This isn't in a popular opinion, but um I think 165 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: it may actually help them. And the reason being is 166 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: we talked about this ad nauseum on the pod a 167 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: few weeks back. What the Nets don't need his offense, 168 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: like they have plenty of offense. They need defense and 169 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: they're only what I think would be a good defender 170 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: in the postseason, like for you know, they do a 171 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: lot of switching. Is Nick Claxton. You know, I think 172 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: DJ is good with the bigger bodies, which you're gonna 173 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: see with em Beid. You know, if you get to 174 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: the finals with Anthony Davis, you gonna need a big body. 175 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: But they switch so much that you need a mobile 176 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: big man and they're only real mobile guys. Nick Clackson, 177 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: I think that Blake Griffin and Jeff Green can do 178 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: a lot of the pick and pop stuff that Aldridge 179 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: is doing, So I don't think they're gonna really miss 180 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: him on the offensive end. And so I think it 181 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: may be a little bit of addition by subtraction, just 182 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: because it thins out the rotation a little bit and 183 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: they had too many guys to play anyways for those spots. Yeah, 184 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: I'm largely with you on that. I would you want 185 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: to make the argument that Aldredge adds a veteran leadership 186 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: voice to what is otherwise a very young team. But 187 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: Kevin Durant is a veteran and he's won multiple rings, 188 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: m VP finals, MVP. I do wonder, though, is are 189 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: they gonna miss LaMarcus Aldridge taking the temperature down in 190 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: the locker room? Should there be a Kyrie hardened Kyrie Durant, 191 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: any kind of tiff in that locker room? And I 192 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: know a lot of people are saying you're a hater. 193 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: That's not happening. I can almost guarantee you there will 194 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: be some incident there, and then who are you going 195 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: to lean on? You've got a rookie coach, and Steve Nash, 196 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: you've got a guy in Blake Griffin who's really just 197 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: along for the ride. Um, I don't think you can 198 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: say that Joe Harris is gonna step up in the 199 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: locker rooms. They listen everybody, you know, Uh, tlc Ain't 200 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: pounding the table. Landry Shammitt not happening. So I don't 201 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: I do wonder like Aldred's didn't ever ring. But this 202 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: is a thirty five year old veteran who respected player 203 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: in the league like he could have been that guy. Hey, hey, guys, 204 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: we all have a goal here to win a title 205 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: and people would listen. Does that sell you at all 206 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: that they will miss Aldred a little bit? Oh yeah 207 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: in that regard absolutely. And and you know history tells 208 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: us that with all of those guys, including Kevin Durant, 209 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: that they're not exactly the best leaders you know in 210 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: the NBA. I mean, Mike D'Antoni is famous for refusing 211 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: to preach defense, even though, according to multiple players on 212 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: those Suns teams, hey you know, maybe we should do 213 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: this differently, and he's like, no, this is what we do. 214 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: You know, Steve Nash, from what we've been told he's 215 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: not really a coach, right, is now what Kyrie Irving said, 216 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: He's you know, he's a coach and name, he's just 217 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: kind of there, but he's not really a coach. So 218 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: as far as leadership, of course, but I think that 219 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: if they don't get to where they're gonna go, I 220 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: think it's going to have less to do with leadership 221 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: and more to do with their defensive shortcomings. I don't 222 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: I don't disagree. All right, without further ado, let's get 223 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: to our guest, former u c l A coach Steve Lavin. 224 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: Jason likes to think he knows everything when it comes 225 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: to sports. I know what sports stands want, but for 226 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: everything he doesn't. He knows a guy who does. Let's 227 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: just say I know a guy who knows a guy 228 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: who knows another guy. All right, let's welcome into straight fire. 229 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: One of the really good guys in sports media. He's 230 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: only all hair team among the announcers. The youngest fifty 231 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: six year old looking guy I've ever seen in my life. 232 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: He is Steve Lavin, former u c l A and 233 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: saying John's coach live, how you doing, man? Terrific? Appreciate 234 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: that very kind generous introduction, but I'll take it. Listen, 235 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: when I'm walking the halls of Fox and I see 236 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: coach Lavin, He's always smiling, always in a good mood. 237 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: People are always laughing around him. He's like kind of 238 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: has this gravitational pull. And um, I love hearing you 239 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: announced games you. I always feel like I'm learning something. 240 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: Listen to you, to your coach, I appreciate that you 241 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: try as a broadcast, like any craft, to get better 242 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: and you know, improve and elevate performance, and that's what 243 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: as a coach we expect from our players. But I 244 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: also think coaches need to lead by example, and that's still, 245 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: in my view, the most powerful form of teaching, whether 246 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: you're a parent, a coach, or you're in the classroom, 247 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: teaching is leading by example. So I do try and 248 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: you know, be prepared and deliver something that's entertaining, but 249 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: also in for a bitive. So I appreciate that element 250 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: of feeling as though you're learning something, because that's one 251 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: of the objectives of broadcasting, but also to have a 252 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: good time. Yeah, certainly, before we get to your background, 253 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: which I love your high school story and prominent youth 254 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: athlete in Marin County. I want to ask how was 255 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: being on the road for the n c A tournament 256 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: you you were gone for four months. Well, I left 257 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: the day before Thanksgiving from the Bay Area of San Francisco, 258 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: northern California, where I currently reside, and I spent a 259 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: month in Charlotte at our Fox studios, UH in that 260 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: part of the country, and we're calling games off the monitor, 261 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: which was a new experience but improved, you know, with 262 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: each week, got a greater comfort level. Everyone asked to 263 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: adjust and adapt because of COVID nineteen and the various protocols. 264 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: And then I came back to Los Angeles for a 265 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: couple of months and stayed right down the street from 266 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: our Fox studios, and then went to Indianapolis for the 267 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: n c Double A Tournament and spent a couple of 268 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: weeks there before returning a week or so ago now 269 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: to the Bay Area. So yeah, it was the longest 270 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: road trip in my life, four months away from home. 271 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: So it's nice to get back in my own bed 272 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: and in the neighborhood, back in the routines of the 273 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: off season. Yeah, how was that bubble? I've talked to 274 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: a couple of people who were in it. They said, 275 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't as bad as it sounds, but 276 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: I'm assuming for you going North Carolina l a bubble, 277 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: it was a little bit of a longer journey. Yeah, 278 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: it's just one of those scenarios. Again you kind of 279 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: go back to the idea of leading by example and 280 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: one of the you know, key elements in competitive sports 281 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: is being able to adapt or just and you know, 282 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: as a broadcaster and you know the people that we 283 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: work with, we all have to you know, use our 284 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: ingenuity and purcefulness and u and make the best of 285 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: situations and to be grateful that we get to work 286 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: in this industry and try and lift people's spirits through 287 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: the work that we do in broadcasting. So um, in 288 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, you know, it's not a 289 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: heavy lift if you put it, you know, on scale 290 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: with people defending our freedoms overseas or real struggles uh 291 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: in our country and beyond. But there is that aspect 292 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: that you do have to adjust and so I think 293 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: one of the big keys is listening. You know, what 294 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: we're doing here having a conversation, and as you know, 295 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: that's so important in any aspect of life. So listening 296 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: to our producers are directors listening to the other talent 297 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: you're working with. If I'm in studio with Donnie Marshall 298 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: and Rob Stone or Kevin Burkhardt, Jimmy Jackson, Casey Jacobson, 299 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: it's you know, listening to one another. UM is really 300 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: the key. That's how you engage, It's where you take 301 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: your cues from. And UM. I was fortunate to have 302 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: parents really emphasized listening because my father was an educator 303 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: and my mother was a teacher in the home, and 304 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: then obviously in her professional life she had to be 305 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: a good listener. She was in human resources and corporate America. 306 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: So both my parents really at a young age instilled 307 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: the the value of listening and in the virtue that 308 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: listening is really the gateway information and knowledge and and 309 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: so for me during this COVID situation, UM, I've just 310 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: tried to amplify even more that aspect of listening. Yeah, well, 311 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: we've only got two young kids here in our house. 312 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: You grew up. I believe the number I read was 313 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: one of six. I'm assuming listening. Listen. It's a tough 314 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: challenge when you got an eight in a ten year 315 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: old here, they're vying for our time. What was it 316 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: like growing up in a lot of a lot of 317 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: siblings and you know parents who were very busy. I 318 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: would assume it sounds like your dad was quite the 319 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: coach and player growing up. Yeah. He was a lifelong 320 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: you know, educator and a lifelong learner. Even after he 321 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: retired from teaching. His subjects were English and literature, philosophy, 322 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: and poetry. He authored seventeen books on writing and composition. 323 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: Taught at CAL Berkeley. He started the Bury Writing Project, 324 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: which began at CAL and it was bringing teachers to 325 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: a college campus and kind of reteaching those teachers, sharpening 326 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: their acts, their writing and thinking, so the only so 327 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: when they returned to the class whom they elevate the 328 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 1: students experiences. And he launched that co founder, co director 329 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,399 Speaker 1: in the late sixties, early seventies. There's now two fifty 330 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: writing centers throughout the country. But that was where it 331 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: all began, was at CAL. And he also taught Santraco 332 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: State College and we're in Dominic and all these northern 333 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: California schools, Drake High School as well. So I was 334 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: fortunate to have outstanding parents who are really interested and 335 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: engaged but it was challenging with six children. I was 336 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: the sixth, the baby of the family. So I did 337 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: a lot of observing. You know, you're watching and listening 338 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: because there's theater going on in a home when you've 339 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: got five older siblings. And uh so it did teach 340 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: me a lot about observation and and learning some of 341 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: the good traits, but also realizing maybe I got to 342 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: go down a different path in some cases than my 343 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: older brothers. But uh but that's what makes a family. 344 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: And of course, you know, when you're the youngest, you're 345 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: battling the older siblings. And you turned out to be 346 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: a pretty damn awesome basketball player in high school. I 347 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: read that you guys went over your junior and senior 348 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: years seventy seven and one and one a state championship. 349 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: I assume you were, you know, the the leader of 350 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: the team, right, captain, I'm assuming, And what position were 351 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: you and all that fun stuff. Yeah, for starters, I'll 352 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: take those extra twelve wins, but there, but just for 353 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: accuracy's sake, we were sixty five and one over those 354 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: two years, and I believe it was, you know, fifty 355 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: eight straight wins and we're thirty one in one my 356 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: junior year and then thirty four and oh my senior year. 357 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: I actually was a very you know, average, a small 358 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: college prospect. I ended up going to Samusco State. And 359 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: when my coach left Samasco State after my sophomore year, 360 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: he went down to Chapman now Chapman University. It was 361 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: Chapman College when I attended it back in the eighties. 362 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: Kevin Wilson was my college coach, and so I end 363 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: up finishing it Chapman. And but the high school team, 364 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: you know, we we didn't have one superstar. It wasn't 365 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: a Carmelo Anthony or a Jason Kidd, but we had 366 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: players that went to Santa Clara, to Portland's, to Utah, uh, 367 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: San Luis Obispo, Samsco State, so we did have seven 368 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: or eight sam Houston State as well, and so it 369 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: was really a team that had been together for a 370 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: long time, and you know, the nucleus had played together 371 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: and ce y oh basketball and uh, you know, through 372 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: junior high and into high school. We had an outstanding 373 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: coach named Pete Heyward, and I think that did play 374 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,239 Speaker 1: a part in me wanting to coach, because we were 375 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: so successful in high school and when you're around that 376 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: degree of success and championships, uh instill some confidence that 377 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, maybe you can do this for a career 378 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: after playing, And that's why I chose coaching. Yeah, it's 379 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: interesting you say that. You know, you're your group in 380 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: high school had been together for a while, and when 381 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: you contrast that with what's happening in college basketball now, 382 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: with the whole transfer market happening and exploding, Um, I 383 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: do wonder are we gonna see some clunky fits because 384 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: a guy like let's take Johnny Jusan who blew up 385 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: in the tournament. He initially had gone to Kentucky didn't 386 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: really work out. For any transfers to U c l A. 387 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: They had to believe another transfer starter. And you know, 388 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: we saw Baylor. I think three transfers in the starting 389 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: lineup for their top eight were transfers. And I just 390 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: I'm just curious as a coach, how difficult do you 391 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: think it is to go from hey, we have a 392 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: group playing together forever, you know, versus hey, let's get 393 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: in a bunch of transfer year olds and let's make 394 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: something happen. Well for starters, the key is whether a 395 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: player is in school for four years at one university, 396 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: or he goes to a junior college for a couple 397 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: of years, transfers in to a four year school, or 398 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: if he's a grad transfer that comes in, or a 399 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: transfer that comes in sits out a full year and 400 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: then is deemed eligible the gifts the talent is critical. 401 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: So I remember coach Wooden used to say, rather have 402 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: young players didn't have experience but had talent, then experienced 403 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: players they were upperclassmen but didn't have talent. And so 404 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: at the end of it, it starts with good personnel 405 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: and then it's on the coach to organize that personnel 406 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: to build team chemistry, to get them to play in 407 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: a cohesive manner both offensively and defensively. And I think coaches, 408 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: because of the frequency of transfers, they're improving in regard 409 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: to how to work with a group of players that 410 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: haven't been together and don't have that continuity piece um Ideally, 411 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: you know, years ago, uh, you know, twenty years ago, 412 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: we had a group that would come in as freshmen 413 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: and they would matriculate through their eligibility and as a 414 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: senior or that senior class or that group of juniors 415 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: and seniors would make their runs. When I look at 416 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: my career are greatest seasons, both as an assistant coach 417 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: and when we won the national championship in u c 418 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: l A. We had our standing seniors Tis Edny, George 419 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: Zedech and Ed O'Bannon. When we went to an E 420 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 1: leade eight in my first year as the head coach 421 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: at U c l A, we had outstanding seniors Cameron Dollar, 422 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: Charles O'Bannon, and then our junior class at JR. Henderson, 423 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: Toby Bailey, Chris Johnson. So upper classmen and experience is 424 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: when you win championships or you make deep runs in 425 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: the tournament, if you've recruited at a high level and 426 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: they have great personnel. The worst scenario is to have 427 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: older players that don't have talent, especially at the power 428 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: of six level, because you're not going to have a 429 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: job very long. And it's a fine line because you know, 430 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: if you're older and you have talent, well why aren't 431 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: you in the NBA. You know, that's like the perception 432 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: sticking around hurts you. Um, I am curious, though, where 433 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: do you think we're headed with the one and done 434 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: versus transfers, because you know, we had a couple of 435 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: guys on your Casey Jacobson, friend for Sheila j Billis. 436 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: They all seem to be on listen. Transfers right now 437 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: are hotter than give me a top ten freshman coming 438 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: in because those guys are thinking, I gotta get to 439 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: the NBA after one season. And we saw in the 440 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 1: tournament a lot of the awesome freshman the kid Moody 441 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: from Arkansas, Kate Cunningham. It's difficult for one young star 442 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: to carry your team against a bunch of year old guys. 443 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: It's true, you know, Jalen SuDS came pretty close perfection 444 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: with a thirty one and one record, not losing until 445 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: the championship game against Baylor. But Baylor did have some 446 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: grizzled veterans and their speed and quickness, length and talent 447 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: and cohesiveness intelligence sometimes you know, the backing and a 448 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: compliment is they're great athletes. It's almost damning them with 449 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: faint praise because you know, this Baylor team was more 450 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: then good athletes. Uh, they're tied together, you know, defensively 451 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: and offensively, their skill, you know, shooting over for the 452 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: season from the three point line, they knocked down ten 453 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: threes in that championship game against Gonzaga, and they played 454 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: some lockdown defense just completely disrupted, discombobulated, unnerved Gonzaga in 455 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: a manner that no other team had until that championship 456 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: game because Gonzaga had and faced the team that quick, 457 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: that tough, that had the defensive prowess. And I also 458 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: think Baylor that and I played with a chip on 459 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: their shoulders something to prove because everyone had assumed that 460 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: Gonzaga is gonna go ahead and have that undefeated, perfect 461 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: season for the first time since Indiana did it in 462 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: the under Bobby Night. But I do think this trend 463 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: is here to stay unless there's legislation that is created 464 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: by the n C Double A, and I don't think 465 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: that's going to happen. They may tweak or modify, but 466 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: not a dramatic overhaul of the graduate transfer rule and 467 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: the transfer you know portal. It is what it is. 468 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: So I really think it's about, you know, how coaches 469 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: adapt and adjust, like that theme we're talking about earlier. 470 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: That's one of the keys to success in any industry, 471 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: in any aspect of life. And so you know, building 472 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: team chemistry, creating that harmony. Uh, those are gonna be 473 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: key elements. But this generation is accustomed to it because 474 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: you know, there's such a degree of frequency of playing 475 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: for different Youth league teams and then different high school teams, 476 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: different AU summer program teams, and so really for this generation, 477 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: it's business as usual. You know, you go to a 478 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: school and if it's not a good fit, you transferred 479 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: to another school, and then you maybe transferred to a 480 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: third school. We're seeing that more frequently, and that is 481 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: counter to the generation that I grew up in, where 482 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: it was you see it through and unless there's some 483 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: dramatic cause for transferring that it's better two kind of 484 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: finish what you began. But I'm not passing judgments or 485 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: trying to be one of those curmudgeons that you know 486 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: doesn't understand young people today, because I completely understand that 487 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: I spent my entire life working with young people. But 488 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: I do think the psychology aspect of coaching is going 489 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: to be more important than ever before. Flexible and you're 490 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: thinking flexible in your approach and being able to adapt. 491 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: John Wooden, when he was at u C l A, 492 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: took a psychology class every spring he was at u 493 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: C like twenty seven years. He would audit the class 494 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: sit in on these lectures that the top psychology teachers 495 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: at U c l A Were teaching. And the reason 496 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: he did that was he was getting older, but he 497 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: knew he was continuing to coach the same age group. 498 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: And he had coached g I bill guys that came 499 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: back from World War Two. He was in the service himself, 500 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: I was in the Navy. He also coached, you know, 501 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: during Vietnam, during civil rights, during the Korean work and 502 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: so the sexual revolution, the drug experimentation, all the things 503 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: that were going on. But what allowed Coach Wouldn't to 504 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: continue to have success was he understood psychology people were 505 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: really the key to coaching, and that was pretty progressive. 506 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: Coach Wooden was a trailblazer, but he was interested in 507 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: all aspects of life and interested in the people he 508 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: worked with, interested in trends in the game, interested in 509 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: the spiritual path in terms of his life. And matter 510 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: of fact, the last time I visited Coach wood in 511 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, shortly before he passed, he was 512 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: ninety nine years old, and he was doing a deep 513 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: dive on all world religions and I thought, that's so 514 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: emblematic of this coach that has a sensatiable appetite to 515 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: learn and was always you know, in that growth mindset. 516 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: There's so many buzzwords we hear about today when it 517 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: comes to you know, those aspects. But he was living 518 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: that for for ninety nine years, just short of his 519 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: hunt with birthday when we lost him on June fourth 520 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: of two thousand and ten. But his legacy lives on 521 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: because he was a coach, a teacher, a parent that 522 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: was engaged and interested in young people, trying to put 523 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: them on a positive trajectory for life beyond sport, you know, 524 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: really teaching life skills, the attributes, the trades, the characteristics 525 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: that it takes to be successful not only sport, but 526 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: beyond sport. Yeah, well we're grappling with that problem. Now. 527 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: We have a fourth grader and a second grader and 528 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: you know, coach, you um, you know you you. I 529 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: guess you got to St. John's u c l A. 530 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: The Internet had popped. But now what the parents are 531 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: dealing with is these uh iPads and roadblocks and video 532 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: games to an extent where you know, coach, we got 533 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: my son's friends show up at the house with their 534 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: backpack with iPad in it and they're like, hey, can 535 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: we game, and like that's the new hangout, and you know, 536 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: trying to understand why on earth the kids are doing this. 537 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: My wife and I are like looking at each other 538 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: like this this is friends hanging out. Like you know, 539 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: we were constantly learning the new stuff. Like I'm stunned 540 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: in college basketball when I see a guy like mac mcclough, 541 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: highly towed of recruit goes to Georgetown transfers, goes to 542 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: Texas Tech transfers. I mean, it's tough for me to 543 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: understand some of the stuff that's happening at the rate 544 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: that it's happening. Yeah, And I think you hit the 545 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: nail on the head right there with that last part 546 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: of your thoughts, which is the speed, the rate, the pace. 547 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: And I think you know, there are still certain universals 548 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: A b c s are kind of fundamentals keys to life, 549 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: like listening and attention to detail, preparation, you know, being 550 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: a good teammate, being other directed in terms of you know, 551 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: selflessness and generosity. I mean, those things are still important, 552 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: but I do agree the challenge now for coaches, teachers, 553 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: and parents and leaders is working with the generation that 554 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: is a customed to the bombardment of message and electronics 555 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: and the twenty four you know, news cycle and all 556 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: of the different um tools, right that this generation comes 557 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: up with. And then you have people that are older, 558 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: of a different generation that move at a different pace 559 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: and didn't grow up, didn't come out of the womb 560 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: attached to a chord like h like an iPhone. But 561 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: as a metaphor, you know, it's just completely different. And 562 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: so I think again, how quickly people can adjust and 563 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: adapt but also hold on to and continue to teach 564 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: and instill the right values and virtues that will sustain 565 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: young people regardless of their generation, regardless of how quickly 566 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: they're moving, because we know, you know, those lessons um 567 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: are are valuable forever. And I think it's a fine line. 568 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: I'd like to say that as a coach, you know, 569 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: what I tried to do was kind of create a 570 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: fresh and original presentation of old school values and virtues. Uh, 571 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: but you had to meet you know, younger people where 572 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: they are, and they're still gonna see me as an 573 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: old timer. But if I'm thinking of fresh and original 574 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: ways to engage and to teach and to inform and 575 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: also to allow them to inform me, because I think 576 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: young people have a powerful, kind of profound way of 577 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: teaching us if we're open to it, you know. And 578 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: that gets back to a flexibility, humility, and a certain 579 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: kind of mindset, and I think that is gonna be 580 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: as important as XS and os and technical knowledge that 581 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: coaches have, They're gonna also need this other dimension more 582 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: than ever. And that goes back to coach Wooden. He 583 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: was old school and yet there he was taking a 584 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: psychology class because he was interested, because he was searching 585 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: for better, more elevated ways to teach young people. And 586 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,919 Speaker 1: it's also what led to a run of ten out 587 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: of twelve seasons with the national championship, four un defeated seasons, 588 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: straight wins. And interestingly, you know, his first sixteen years 589 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 1: at u c l A, he wasn't successful. It was 590 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: his last twelve years and he were, you know, fifty 591 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: three years old he won his first championship, and then 592 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 1: he retired at sixty five years old, twelve years later 593 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: with ten championships. But he was a work in progress, 594 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: you know. He started in high school Dayton, Kentucky as 595 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: an English teacher and a coach. Then he was a 596 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: South Bend Central High School in Indiana as a teacher 597 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: and a coach. Then he was in Indiana State, which 598 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: was a teacher's college at that point. And then he 599 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: had the twenty seven year run at U c l 600 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: A before retiring. And he also was in the service 601 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: um which shaped him and his sensibilities and the prisoner lens, 602 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: and he looked at the world through in a powerful way. 603 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: But he was someone that continued to improve upon his 604 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: coaching style and his methods and adapting his philosophy so 605 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: that he could have the most dominant run in the 606 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: history of sport. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports 607 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 1: talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows 608 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: at Fox Sports Radio dot Com and within the I 609 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. 610 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm curious when you were recruiting players either U. C 611 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: l A. St. John's, how how difficult was it to 612 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: decipher who had those fundamental values and that understanding and 613 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: the flexibility Because listen, you're dealing with teenagers here, right, 614 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: so it must have been a little difficult to discern. 615 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: I think this guy can be molded into a good 616 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: fit on our team, versus he seems unyielding and unflexible. 617 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: How difficult was it to gauge that? Well? Number one, 618 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: depending where you coach. You know, I think that it 619 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: goes a long way to determine and dictating, you know, 620 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: the type of person that you recruit. In other words, 621 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: if I was working at a Division two school, you know, 622 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a different talent pool. If I'm in 623 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: the IVY League, that's a different talent pool in terms 624 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: of finding a fit, like a good marriage with the 625 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: prospect and his particular talents, and a university and their 626 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: mission and aims and the culture of that university. UM 627 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: at Purdue in the Big Ten where I got my 628 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: coaching start, at U c l A out West, and 629 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: then at St. John's. You know, those three universities. You know, 630 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,919 Speaker 1: the objective is clear, it's to win big. And so 631 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: you go out and you're looking for the best talent 632 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: in the world. You know, George Edech was from the 633 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: Czech Republic, uh Orlando Sanchez was from the Dominican you know, 634 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: Marco Borgo was from Paris, from France. So you know, 635 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: we went all over the world, UH at U c 636 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: l A and St. John's in particular, per Do we 637 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: recruited more players in the Midwest, and then occasionally we 638 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: get a junior college player like Chucky White from El 639 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: Camino in Los Angeles. But um, and then you know, 640 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: there's the physical aspect. You know, we were looking for, 641 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: you know, quickness, skill, basketball, acumen you know basketball I 642 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: q uh. You know, I wanted on the intangible side, 643 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: great listeners, quick learners, UM. And we were fortunate that 644 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: we're able to identify, you know, good personnel and then 645 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: engage and that's where you start to learn more, you know, 646 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: back to being interested through spending time through communicating. Early 647 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: it was through writing letters and phone calls, you know. 648 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 1: But when I came back to coaching and St. John's, 649 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: it was about d M men and all the social 650 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: media and more unofficial visits where they wanted to come 651 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: to campus, hang out in your office, and be around 652 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: you in an informal way, not where you're making recruiting 653 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: picture presentation. You know, in the old days would go 654 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: on the home with a three wing binder, we'd make 655 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: a power point presentation, we had a video to play. 656 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: And now today younger people just wanted to spend time 657 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: around you. So uh, when they came on a on 658 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: an official visit. You know, we spend time in Soho 659 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: and Tribeca and thrillk Glynn and uh, you know, go 660 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 1: to an art exhibit, listen to some jazz. UM. So 661 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: it's so different, go for a walk in Central Park. Um, 662 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: as opposed to when I was at Purdue us l A. 663 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: And we recruited in a more official presentation manner. I 664 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: guess I would wrap up with this, coach, where do 665 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: you think college hoops is headed? I know there's a 666 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: lot of talk about letting the high school guys jump 667 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: to the pros. Obviously we discussed the transfer market. But 668 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: you know, Colin, I don't want to say that the 669 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 1: heyday was when you coached. I mean, I love college 670 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: hoops more than anything. In like the late eighties and 671 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: the nineties, I felt like just sport was just it 672 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,919 Speaker 1: was like yet more better players, better basketball. I don't 673 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: hate it now, of course, I still love the tournament, 674 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: But it seems like college basketball is that's something of 675 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: a crossroads. Right. We just saw Roy Williams retire. Indiana 676 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: can't seem to figure out what they're doing. Um, coach 677 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: K I believe is seventy four? Um, what what? What's 678 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: the immediate future of college hoops. I think, you know, 679 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:01,720 Speaker 1: college basketball will remain you know, viable and a popular sport, 680 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: and I think March band will still be one of 681 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: the great sporting events in the world, right there with 682 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: Super Bowl and World Series, World Cup, Olympics, Little League, 683 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: World Series. I love the n C Double A tournament 684 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: because for three weeks we've got so many compelling stories 685 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: and even if you're not a basketball fan, you can 686 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: follow March badness and draw inspiration from it. UM. I 687 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: think the game's in good shape, but no doubt it's 688 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: gonna take leadership two use ingenuity and resourcefulness and creativity 689 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: UM to be able to build upon its great tradition 690 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: and also to remain viable and attractive to the best 691 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,399 Speaker 1: talent in the world because there are other options now 692 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: viable options, these new leagues that are providing opportunities for 693 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: players while they're in high school to generate revenue, to 694 00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 1: be under contract, and then you know prep schools, and 695 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: then right out of high school there are options. Uh. 696 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 1: You know we see with with the Ball family, you know, 697 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: they've been trailblazers in terms of exploring all the different 698 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: options and different routes to ultimately reach the dream, which 699 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 1: is to compete in the NBA at the highest level. 700 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: There didn't used to be as many alternative paths to 701 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: the NBA. Now there are, and so it can't just 702 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: be that old school cremudgeon mindset of if they don't 703 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: want to come to college, then they're not meant to 704 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: be here, or you know, if they don't want to 705 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 1: stay four years, they shouldn't come to college. I don't 706 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: think you can have that mindset because the key is 707 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: to have an inclusive approach. And there's still gonna be 708 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,800 Speaker 1: players that choose to go overseas and then go to 709 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: the NBA or or decide while they're in high school 710 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: the option to begin training like an Olympic athlete, to 711 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: go straight to the NBA and bypass college. Uh, obviously 712 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: there's going to be certain age limitations and whatnot. But 713 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: I think the n c double A leadership, USA Basketball, 714 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 1: the National Association of Basketball Coaches, and Dan Gavitt, who's 715 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,760 Speaker 1: an outstanding leader overseas n C double As Men's Basketball Championships, 716 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: they have to continue to enhance and protect what's great 717 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: you know about college basketball, but also build and continue 718 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: to make it the most viable, attractive options, and then 719 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: if people choose to go elsewhere or choose different paths, 720 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 1: we respect that. But that way you don't run into 721 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: the potential scenario of college not being the most attractive 722 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: option for the best basketball players in the world. You know, 723 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: just think if we had that mindset, you know, years ago, 724 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,720 Speaker 1: and as a result, Magic and Bird didn't go to college, 725 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, then we never would have had the rebirth 726 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: in terms of popularity of college basketball. Byrd initially signed 727 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: to Indiana The school felt too big for him. I 728 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,879 Speaker 1: don't think Bobby Knight really got to see him play much, 729 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't let him get away. He transfers to Indiana State, 730 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,279 Speaker 1: and Magic goes to Michigan State. The two meet in 731 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: the National Championship Game is seventy eight, and then they 732 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: go to the NBA and they have another, you know, 733 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,839 Speaker 1: dramatic effect on that league in terms of his popularity. 734 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: They basically resuscitated the NBA. And that was just two players. 735 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 1: So you know, who's the Larry Bird or the Magic 736 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: Johnson of you know, this generation that's right now in 737 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: sixth grade or eighth grade, and you want to make 738 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,399 Speaker 1: sure that college basketball is still attractive enough to get 739 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:59,240 Speaker 1: enough Isaiah Thomas's, Charles Barkley's, Larry Birr's, Magic Johnson's, Carnelo Anthony's, 740 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 1: Mike of Beast, and Jalen sucks because if we lose talent, 741 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: the gifted players, then ultimately the popular of the game 742 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: is going to be diminished. I mean, no one's gonna 743 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: put No one's gonna pay top dollar to go to 744 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: Broadway to go see a musical unless they're talented. You 745 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: might go see your son or daughter or anisa or nephew. 746 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 1: Well you're not gonna pay top dollar to go to 747 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: a movie theater, to go to the Broadway to go 748 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: watch you know, someone perform a vocalist. So the n 749 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: C double A has to be sure they continue to 750 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,720 Speaker 1: make the game and the experience of being a student 751 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: athlete attractive enough and inclusive enough to bring in enough 752 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: of those new generation Larry Birds and Magic Johnson's. So 753 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 1: it sounds like you you think you have confidence the 754 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: leadership can handle this name and likeness uh in in 755 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: the correct manner, because it sounds like that is the 756 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: also the other big domino to fall in college hoops. Yeah, 757 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: it appears that train is leaving the station right, and 758 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,960 Speaker 1: it's not moving down the tracks, but it is definitely 759 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's not moving down the tracks at a 760 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: fast rate, but it is pulling away from the station. 761 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: And I see that's something that's gonna be here. And 762 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: so it's how quickly does the n C double A 763 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: adapt and adjust? And it's gonna be trial and there, 764 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's it's not gonna be uh, you know, 765 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 1: a perfect ascent. It's it's gonna take problem solving and 766 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: people that enjoy riddles and crossword puzzles and are creative 767 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: and left right right thinkers. Well, yeah, I'm sure you 768 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,760 Speaker 1: saw the G League offered a couple of guys green 769 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 1: and cominga big money and I'm a minority owner in 770 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 1: an Australian basketball team, the Breakers, and we got R. J. Hampton, 771 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: who was you know, ticketed to be a star in 772 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,279 Speaker 1: Texas because we're able to offer him money, sneaker deal, 773 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: and you know, eventually college hoops is probably gonna have 774 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: to cave and say, listen, we're gonna have to let 775 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 1: you guys profit off your name. And so you don't 776 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: explore those other options, that's the million dollar question, you know, 777 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: how our athletes compensated. You know, for years I've been 778 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: saying that if we had the equivalent of a bank 779 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,440 Speaker 1: but for the n C double A that would grant 780 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:29,719 Speaker 1: dollars based on financial hardship and need, then we may 781 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,719 Speaker 1: not have had to get to this point because now 782 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: we're in the midst of the revolution. I'm not again 783 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: saying revolution like civil rights, but you know, in our 784 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,760 Speaker 1: own way, you know, on us to a smaller degree, 785 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 1: there is a revolution going on. And if you don't 786 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: have evolution, we've learned, you have revolution. And so we 787 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 1: didn't evolve quickly enough. The Olympics back of the eighties 788 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: made some adjustments to the amateur model allowed their athletes 789 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: two create compensation, you know, so they could put food 790 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: on the table for their children while they were training 791 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,239 Speaker 1: to win gold medals when competing in the Olympics for 792 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: our country. Um, but they they were probably even slow 793 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: to change. But the n C double A unfortunately didn't 794 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: move along quick enough. Now we're beginning to because of 795 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,800 Speaker 1: this revolution, and uh, what could happen in the courts. 796 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: So I think if we had had that n C 797 00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: double A bank, you know, and based on financial need, 798 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,160 Speaker 1: not the performance of a player, but instead where is 799 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,839 Speaker 1: their need, Men's, women's, all sports. You know, when there's 800 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 1: a need, you know, and you've got to get documentation, 801 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 1: provide you know, as a single parent, no parents, you know, 802 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: tax returns, just like you do when you go into 803 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,080 Speaker 1: any kind of bank. But this was would be an 804 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,360 Speaker 1: n C double a bank. And because I think a 805 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,520 Speaker 1: lot of the issues, you know, some people, it was 806 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,920 Speaker 1: more about you know, getting paid to play the respective school. 807 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: Right That's where we have the FBI situation of the 808 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,640 Speaker 1: past couple of years and the wire taps and all 809 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: of that. But I think the vast majority of scenarios 810 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,719 Speaker 1: with student athletes is just the basic hardship. You know, 811 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,560 Speaker 1: parents that are not employed, parents that don't have health insurance, 812 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 1: parents that can't you know, pay the rent or pay 813 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,280 Speaker 1: for the heat through the winter, parents that can't afford 814 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,400 Speaker 1: to come to games to watch their children play or 815 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,479 Speaker 1: compete at a high level. So um. But but now 816 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 1: that the name image likeness, that thing is moving down 817 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,399 Speaker 1: the tracks and again there'll be some trial and air 818 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: and some troubleshooting for sure. Um But I think just 819 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:56,160 Speaker 1: like the Olympics, tweaking the amateur model is what's necessary. Yeah, 820 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,439 Speaker 1: he is Steve Levin. You guys obviously know him from 821 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 1: the sidelines, the announcing booth. He probably should have opened, 822 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, some kind of coaching school. I feel 823 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,720 Speaker 1: like I learned a lot from you, as usual, Steve, 824 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,880 Speaker 1: thanks a lot for the time, and enjoy the spring 825 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,799 Speaker 1: in San Francisco. I will always a pleasure. Let's do 826 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: it again down the line.