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Speaker 1: Hey, what up? Welcome in to the All Ball Podcast. Um, listen,

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Speaker 1: We're not gonna do trade deadline stuff on the All

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Speaker 1: Ball Podcast, not because it's not important. You have the

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Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb Show podcast where when news breaks, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got an interview with sam Ay make you can

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Speaker 1: download and where he thinks people are going and when

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Speaker 1: when the trade deadline is done, we'll we'll, we'll go

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Speaker 1: through it. Then we have the buyout stuff like that's

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Speaker 1: more kind of uh this one, well, look, Rajabell has

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Speaker 1: been a friend of mine for god howld am I

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Speaker 1: now fifteen years maybe, and I in many ways revere

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Speaker 1: him because, uh, from humble beginnings, you know, be he

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Speaker 1: went to be You, then to Florida National, then like me,

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Speaker 1: kind of bounced around minor league basketball to making it

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Speaker 1: in the league. Like he made it and it wasn't justus.

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Speaker 1: He made it. Then become a starter, and then he

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Speaker 1: became a fire starter with Kobe Bryant. So I've wanted

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Speaker 1: to have him on for a long time and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to tell a story. But then you know, the

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Speaker 1: Kobe tragedy happens, and I wanted to have him on

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Speaker 1: for that. So this is a long one. It's a

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Speaker 1: good one. It has kind of intertwined his life career

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Speaker 1: and when he became this thorn in Kobe side and

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Speaker 1: kind of has a surprise ending. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: to it. So, without further ado, here's part one. Be

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Speaker 1: sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb

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Speaker 1: Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's welcome him in. He's Rajah bell um, rajah. How

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Speaker 1: are you? I'm goodby? How are you good? Um? Look,

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Speaker 1: I actually an additional pod about your career because I

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Speaker 1: think it's amazing. I mean in all Canada, right like

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Speaker 1: you and I I mean like you. You went from

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Speaker 1: USB L to NBA to to you know, Kobe stopper. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I just think in terms of timeliness. Um, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk Kobe. Are you cool with that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: For sure? For sure? Um, all right you for for

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Speaker 1: people who don't remember your store. You grew up where

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the Virgin Islands until uh so

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Speaker 1: I was about thirteen and then um, I moved to Miami.

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Speaker 1: So I did my middle school most of it in

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Speaker 1: high school in the Miami area, and before that it

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Speaker 1: was it was on a small island in the Caribbean

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Speaker 1: playing tennis, playing tennis. I I don't know you played tennis.

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Speaker 1: That's fastenning. I played a little tennis for a couple

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Speaker 1: of years. My son plays some tennis. It's an incredible sport.

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Speaker 1: We should have played when I was in Miami. Ga. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I was on your at your

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Speaker 1: campus on Saturday f I U uh that that was

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Speaker 1: they play in the ocean. But they have a cool

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Speaker 1: They got a cool kind of hangout area, uh during

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Speaker 1: games right where they got bottle service and everything. Not

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Speaker 1: that there was bottle series on a Neon game. But

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Speaker 1: they actually got a nice little squad. They got the

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Speaker 1: big kids. I think you can make the league. Listen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he that kid went undrafted. I mean not undrafted, he

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Speaker 1: went unrecruited. He pretty sure he walked on at fy U.

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Speaker 1: He quit his high school team. It's ridiculous, but it's

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Speaker 1: part of the issue with that fight that you got

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Speaker 1: me on a hot butt topic. Now U, they actually

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Speaker 1: have been point in the right direction and Coach Ballard

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Speaker 1: company have put together at that squad. But prior to

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Speaker 1: that they were. They were they were completely um uh

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Speaker 1: under recruiting our own backyard and they were going everywhere

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Speaker 1: else looking for this challenge. And part of the problem

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Speaker 1: in Miami is is grassroots wise, you don't have great

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Speaker 1: teachers of the game. But it's never been about not

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Speaker 1: having the athletes. So if you're good at teaching the

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Speaker 1: game and you can get kids in and and help

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Speaker 1: him understand conceptually you know what you're trying to do

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Speaker 1: and and teach a little bit, well, then the athletes

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Speaker 1: are already here. And they just they missed out on

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Speaker 1: so many of those kids that went and wound up

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Speaker 1: being Player of the Year and other conferences that it

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Speaker 1: was just it was a laughable thing. It's actually pretty

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Speaker 1: cool to see them doing doing well. I hate the court,

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Speaker 1: by the way, like I don't love the ocean and

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Speaker 1: and the cabanah look, but I know what they're going for.

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Speaker 1: But it's pretty cool to see them playing good basketball. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would say this, Um, I don't like that one

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Speaker 1: side because you can't tell there's just too many lines.

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Speaker 1: You can't tell where the three point line is. I

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Speaker 1: do think when when you're at a a school like

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Speaker 1: f I, you having something like that, right, some something

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Speaker 1: that pops anytime it's on TV. I do think is

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Speaker 1: a good thing like that? That a crazy way to

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Speaker 1: look at it. No, I think you're absolutely right. It's

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Speaker 1: why I would say that I understand what you're going for,

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Speaker 1: Like I get it. I just don't love it. And

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Speaker 1: maybe it's because you know, I I don't go through

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Speaker 1: day to day with f I U goes through in

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Speaker 1: terms of having to explain to people who we are,

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Speaker 1: you know, so like for for me it's almost like

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Speaker 1: my man, like we don't need that, but we do that.

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Speaker 1: So I understand what you're going for. I just I

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Speaker 1: don't love it, you know. Yeah, Uh well it's uh.

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Speaker 1: I had the pronunciation really good Saturday. It's um A

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Speaker 1: saga o sagai. Right, A's how you say his last

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Speaker 1: name o saga anyway. Yeah, he's six, leads the country

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Speaker 1: and block shots. They use him perfectly by the way

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Speaker 1: they're running NBA stuff spread pick and roll in the

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Speaker 1: slot and he's awesome. And I mean, like, look for

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Speaker 1: people who haven't seen him, like I'm we're giving away

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Speaker 1: like little this, this is what an NBA big looks like.

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Speaker 1: And when the new staff got there when Jeremy Ballard

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Speaker 1: got there, like the previous staff didn't want to keep

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Speaker 1: him and he was gonna quit, and they talked him

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Speaker 1: into staying, put him on scholarship, and now he's the

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Speaker 1: best shop palker in the country. It's insane, it's in

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Speaker 1: it's in absolutely insane. It's a ridiculous story. We went

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Speaker 1: to watch him. I would take my boys down, um

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Speaker 1: and we we've seen the kids sitting there in street

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Speaker 1: clothes or playing. You know, he was dressed, you know,

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Speaker 1: playing the the regular two or three minutes that they'd

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Speaker 1: give him. Um and there will be no reason to

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Speaker 1: know that he could play, just because no one ever

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Speaker 1: gave him a shot to play. It's pretty crazy. The

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Speaker 1: kid Antonio Day, I don't know if you if you

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Speaker 1: saw him, he's really good guarding. He's only eighteen years

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Speaker 1: old too, and so he got he's got a chance.

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Speaker 1: He played locally in high school, like up in the

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Speaker 1: area that I live in, and uh, you know he

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Speaker 1: a friend, a mutual friend of ours, was like, look,

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Speaker 1: this kid really wants to go to f I U

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Speaker 1: could could you? Could you call the school And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't valid at the time. It was the old coach,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, look, you got a kid, you

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Speaker 1: have to check him out, Like I think he'd be

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Speaker 1: a good fit athletically. F I use of the world

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Speaker 1: don't get a look at a kid like this, not

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Speaker 1: to mention that he's just really gifted in pick and

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Speaker 1: roll and could really run what they're trying to run

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Speaker 1: right now. But I think he's got a chance to Doug.

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Speaker 1: He's got he's got a body. He is freaky athletic.

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Speaker 1: I'm reluctant to say John Moran because Ji is like

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Speaker 1: like a point one one percentile, but this kid is

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Speaker 1: a a super freaky athlete also, and he's really good

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Speaker 1: and picking role. Okay, So so I know, actually it's

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Speaker 1: be getting ready to do the game, you know, you prep.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this story. His dad

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Speaker 1: was shot and killed like five days before he was born. Um,

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Speaker 1: and he's originally from Raleigh. This is Antonio Day Junior

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Speaker 1: for people don't know. He's a sophomore at f AT

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Speaker 1: at f i U and Jimmy Bower is doing a

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Speaker 1: really good job there. Um anyway, so and he's a

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Speaker 1: young sophomore like and who people understand like I was,

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Speaker 1: I was a hold back. So I graduated high school

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Speaker 1: at nineteen. He's a sophomore. He's only eight teen, so

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Speaker 1: he's still still developing his game. He is a he's

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Speaker 1: six one eight eight or so one ninety, built like

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Speaker 1: a brick shit house, and a really good They made

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Speaker 1: him into a really good ball screen guard. And he

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Speaker 1: can defend. I would say, you know, he's gotta shoot

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Speaker 1: the ball better, um, but he should be able to

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Speaker 1: defend NT to get to the bass kid. And he's

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Speaker 1: excellent in what they do in spread ball street stuff,

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Speaker 1: which is all really you do in the NBA anyway.

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Speaker 1: So his his dad was shot and killed for he's born.

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Speaker 1: And then he grew up in Raleigh, and I think

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Speaker 1: only his junior senior year, he moved down to Fort

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Speaker 1: Lauderdale and I went to high school there. Huh, Doug.

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Speaker 1: We tried to kids. I was working at a local

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Speaker 1: high school. One of my good friends coaches there, and

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Speaker 1: so I was, you know, helping, trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: if I liked to do it. So I was helping

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Speaker 1: and this kid, someone said, hey man, we got a

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Speaker 1: kid moved down from North Carolina. You gotta check them out.

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Speaker 1: The first time I saw him, I was like what

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Speaker 1: what what are you? What are you talking about? This

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Speaker 1: kid isn't he's not in college somewhere. They're like, look,

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Speaker 1: he's like playing fifteen you under armor and he's he's

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Speaker 1: he's a junior, but he's playing fifteen you because he's

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Speaker 1: a baby. And even at that point you were like

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Speaker 1: this physically he's different, um and a really nice kid,

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Speaker 1: like a really good kid. I had no idea about

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Speaker 1: the dad at the back story there. I remember when

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Speaker 1: he moved to town because we had we hadn't seen

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Speaker 1: anything like him here in the Fort Lauder. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: have a really good staff there, Ballard, David Casson's there,

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Speaker 1: and then Joey Rodriguez, remember he played at at at VCU.

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Speaker 1: Of course Ballard was at VCU twice over and they

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Speaker 1: got they got a good staff of guys to work

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Speaker 1: with guards to that. I think that's a I mean,

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Speaker 1: the whole thing is. And I know that Ballard leaves,

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Speaker 1: he'd take them with him. Um, but that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a good little crew they have there. Anyway, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's get to that's that's the most anyone will ever

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Speaker 1: talk on a pot about f I U. But I

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Speaker 1: was I was I was more. I wasn't pleasantly surprised.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of blown away by those two because

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Speaker 1: I could honestly see both those guys having having a

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Speaker 1: shot to play, uh in the league, which is I

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Speaker 1: never thought I would have said before I threw on

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Speaker 1: tape and then I saw him in person. Um, okay, so,

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Speaker 1: uh so like you you don't have It's it's interesting

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Speaker 1: because I didn't you backing up? Now you talk to

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Speaker 1: me in the car, You're on bluetooth, Like, all right,

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Speaker 1: make sure you don't hit whatever you're back up, put

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Speaker 1: it apart. Now you're good. You can do whatever you

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Speaker 1: gotta do. It's it's okay. Um, so like you're going

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Speaker 1: through the rigors of minor league basketball, right, Um, what

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Speaker 1: what was and Kobe was younger than us, what was

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Speaker 1: your first What are your first memory of the name

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Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant was when it would have been, uh was

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Speaker 1: ninety six, one of those years. I was already a

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Speaker 1: freshman at Boston University. I played that year, so it's

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Speaker 1: probably the summer of ninety five or ninety six. You

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Speaker 1: have it all blinds together at this point. But um,

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Speaker 1: I had some teammates from the Northeast area, like you know,

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Speaker 1: we had Long Island was represented, and we had you

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Speaker 1: know a bunch of kids from New Hampshire and so

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Speaker 1: there were you know a lot of guys who knew

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Speaker 1: that Northeast and the Boston Shootout, um wasn't wasn't was

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Speaker 1: coming to town. And so you know, you had a

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Speaker 1: lot of guys coming in to play, a lot of

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Speaker 1: big names where they're like Steath was coming and and

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Speaker 1: and Paul Pierce had a team in there. ABC had

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Speaker 1: these great teams and all my all all my teams

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Speaker 1: where you got to see this kid named Kobe Bryant,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, well where is he? Where is

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Speaker 1: he from? Like I wasn't tuned in or plugged in

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Speaker 1: like that. Um, But we went over to to to

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Speaker 1: Boston College, um to try to watch him, to try

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Speaker 1: to watch him play. I'm not even sure that he

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Speaker 1: played that game. But when I got there, the the

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Speaker 1: arena was just smashed. And this was before you know,

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Speaker 1: Brownie plays on TV and you have you know, thousands

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Speaker 1: of people filling like Targets Center or whatever it is. Now.

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Speaker 1: This was this was pre all of that. Everybody had

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Speaker 1: lined up to see you know, Kobe Bryant, whether whether

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Speaker 1: he was going to dress out or not. And that's

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Speaker 1: what that was my first introduction to Kobe. I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: this guy, this name alone carries a lot of weight. Now,

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Speaker 1: he didn't play that day and I didn't get to

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Speaker 1: see him playing at porn him, but I started following

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Speaker 1: him after that, UM. And then you know, obviously you

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Speaker 1: know when he hit the league and the glimpses in

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Speaker 1: his in his just his rookie season alone, when he

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Speaker 1: was able to get out there, you know, you could

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Speaker 1: tell that that was the force. They weren't going to

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Speaker 1: be up with the hold back for very long. So

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Speaker 1: then you go to f I U. You get done

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Speaker 1: in f i U. Se transferred right. You went up

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Speaker 1: to f I you because they had I mean, you

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Speaker 1: have to be you because Frank was there. No, when

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Speaker 1: I went to Beau, it was Bob. It was Brett

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Speaker 1: Brown's dad, Bob Brown. Um. And the story on Mabbe. Look,

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Speaker 1: I was I was a young senior, so I was

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Speaker 1: like six s UM and I had a good senior year,

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Speaker 1: but I got recruited by a lot of mid majors early,

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Speaker 1: and when the major started coming my senior year, I

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Speaker 1: just was Doug. I was I was a little like

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Speaker 1: I was small, and I guess I didn't have the

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Speaker 1: confidence that so I wanted to play right away. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't buy that that Dale Brown was gonna be

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Speaker 1: able to play me at the three start in the

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Speaker 1: SEC as a pound freshman. So I chose a small

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Speaker 1: I chose be you. And I left there because you know,

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Speaker 1: shaky Rodriguez got the job at at at f i

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Speaker 1: U and they wanted to leave the country and scoring,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to leave the country and scoring. He

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Speaker 1: never worked out like that. That's what I wanted to do. Okay,

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Speaker 1: see you come back home, you get done at f

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Speaker 1: IU and then what So I looked. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what was gonna happen. I had very little NBA interest.

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Speaker 1: Um I picked my agent because he sat down with

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Speaker 1: me and and he was brutally honest. He said, I

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Speaker 1: I see, I saw a lot of players here at

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Speaker 1: the at the Sun Belt Conference tournament. He was like,

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Speaker 1: you were one of the better ones. I don't think

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Speaker 1: you could play in the NBA, but I think I

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Speaker 1: can make you some money in Europe. So just for

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Speaker 1: the honesty, This was Bill McCandless at the time that

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Speaker 1: that was, Yeah, that was that was That was my guy.

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Speaker 1: That was that was Bill. Bill was a good dude, right,

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Speaker 1: So I appreciated that the kind of slap in the face,

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Speaker 1: but at least you're shooting me straight. Um and I

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Speaker 1: had one workout with the Atlanta Hawks. Pete Babcock had

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Speaker 1: seen me play in the the Arizona Tournament where we

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Speaker 1: were brought in to be the cupcake or Penn State,

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Speaker 1: and we beat Penn State and they were supposed to

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Speaker 1: see Arizona but Arizona drew Ustin Um and I went

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Speaker 1: up against Jayson Terry and Luke Walton and Richard Jefferson

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Speaker 1: and I had like twenty four I think, and they

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Speaker 1: found me out with like four minutes to go, just

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Speaker 1: to protect the Wayne, and Pete was like, hey man,

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Speaker 1: I know, like you're not going to Portsmith and you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna go Chicago, but we'll bring you in for

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Speaker 1: a workout. So I went and I worked out against

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Speaker 1: Melvin Levitt, Quincy Lewis, and Chris Herron, uh four man

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Speaker 1: workout at Georgia Tech, And I don't know what was

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Speaker 1: going on that day does but like Melvin was known,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's a helicopter, like I matched him on

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Speaker 1: the vert that day, like I shot as well as

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Speaker 1: Quincy did, and nobs because I wasn't never known for

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Speaker 1: ball handling, but I probably handled it as well as

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Speaker 1: Chris did. So the stars just a line for me

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Speaker 1: that day. Um, they didn't draft me, although they said

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Speaker 1: they take me with the last pick in the trap,

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Speaker 1: but they invited me back to vet Camp. Um pre

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Speaker 1: vet Camp. I spent time obviously in the USBL with

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Speaker 1: the Tampa Bay wind Jammers, um traverse, hold hold on,

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Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, like, let's not let's not, let's

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Speaker 1: not gloss over that because I know I want to

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Speaker 1: make this about Kobe, but this is awesome. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: just so you know, so McCandless, my deal with McCandless

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Speaker 1: was he didn't get me any workouts. I went to

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Speaker 1: the usb L and he was like, look, dude, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna send guys to the usb L because it's an

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma team. You'll play with some of your guys. You're

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Speaker 1: kind of the guy there. Whatever. A couple of teams

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Speaker 1: came watching me, but I didn't. I was like, I

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Speaker 1: was kind of pissed to build it. He was just

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Speaker 1: kind of shipping me overseas. I had his really passport

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Speaker 1: whatever you know, waiting for me. Um, but I so

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Speaker 1: so like for people who were okay. So Melvin let

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Speaker 1: Levitt was the levitator, right, he was the one who

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Speaker 1: who had the nasty dunk I think to beat Duke

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Speaker 1: in Alaska. So what was your vert to beat Melvin

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Speaker 1: Levitt on that day? Do you remember day? That's that's

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Speaker 1: off off a step or off a straight verte or

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Speaker 1: off a run off of one step. They gave me

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Speaker 1: one step, So I took one step and I never

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Speaker 1: tested Like, I's why you never tested anything? So I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea. I was just going in there

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Speaker 1: trying to make something out of it, a little you know,

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Speaker 1: a whole opportunity at So you go to the Tampa

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Speaker 1: Who is your coach with the Tampa Bay wind Jammers,

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Speaker 1: Darren Morning Star, Darren Morning Yeah, he played a pit

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Speaker 1: um good, good dude, but but not ready for for

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Speaker 1: the responsibility of running a a you know, any type

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Speaker 1: of protein, you know, even if it was the USB

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Speaker 1: L like, he wasn't ready for that. So we were

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Speaker 1: we were like driving up to Palm Beach, uh me

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Speaker 1: and two buddies of mine. Like every day we were

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Speaker 1: car pool and trying to get some money together to

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Speaker 1: drive up to just be in this gym with At

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Speaker 1: the time, it was probably twenty five of us for

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Speaker 1: maybe two weeks, you know, and nobody even knew what

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Speaker 1: the roster was gonna be. We were just going in

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Speaker 1: there and Darren was just putting us through the paces. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then he he trimmed the team. Um. And even

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Speaker 1: with fifteen it was just as unorganized, like he come

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Speaker 1: in and there wouldn't be referees and you know, we

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Speaker 1: I never got a check and it was it was

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Speaker 1: just it was a ship show of a league. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the competition was actually competition was good and they

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Speaker 1: played NBA rules and you played against bort like like

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Speaker 1: here's my so, here's my deal. So the next year,

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Speaker 1: so in two thousand, I finished and I was the

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Speaker 1: first pick of the usbl draft, right and uh. Um

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Speaker 1: and so we had and I forget the dude's name,

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Speaker 1: somebody will tweet me and remind me, but um, we

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Speaker 1: had our coaches, like a lead scout of the Dallas Mavericks,

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Speaker 1: right and he we went through training camp and enid

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Speaker 1: um at Phillips then Phillips University and uh um and

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Speaker 1: Denny Price, Who's I had worked with on my shooting.

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Speaker 1: That's Brent and Mark Price's dad was like an assistant

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Speaker 1: coach and so like we had and we had legit dudes.

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Speaker 1: You know. We had Willie Burton was on our team,

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Speaker 1: was the ninth pick of the NBA draft, right like

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Speaker 1: he had fifty for the in the game for the heat.

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Speaker 1: Uh we had Willie Burton. We had uh we had

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Speaker 1: Bubba Wells who led the country and scoring when you

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Speaker 1: didn't leave the country and score, he did it. I

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Speaker 1: think Austin p uh Well. We and we we had

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Speaker 1: we had like five dudes that had had at least

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Speaker 1: a cup of coffee the league anyway, literally the day

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Speaker 1: or two days before the first game, like he didn't

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Speaker 1: get paid or something and he's like, fuck you, I quit.

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Speaker 1: And Brian Gates, who who Brian Gates? Since then he

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Speaker 1: was like a CB a coach and he's been an

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Speaker 1: NBA assistant. Um, he's still an NBA assistant now. Like

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Speaker 1: Brian Gates like took over like his first coaching job,

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Speaker 1: and like it was it was the league was nuts.

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Speaker 1: But I do remember like Sean Colson was the best

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Speaker 1: player in the league, and I had we played them there.

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Speaker 1: He was on like the Kansas Catures or something since

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Speaker 1: Lina Kansas, and I had to guard that fucker, like

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Speaker 1: we probably played him ten times. And I mean he

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was really good and it was more

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Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, I mean it was hel so. But

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Speaker 1: but my point is that in addition to it being

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Speaker 1: kind of crazy, and I do think that craziness weeds out,

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Speaker 1: finds out like, hey, do you want to play pro basket?

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Speaker 1: Like that's my that was my thing. When I went

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Speaker 1: to the f i U game and I did an

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Speaker 1: f AU game on Thursday, was I told people I

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Speaker 1: was working with. I was like, hey, this seems like

390
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Speaker 1: really shitty basketball because there's only, you know, a couple

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Speaker 1: hundred people in the stands. But this is what minor

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Speaker 1: league basketball is like. And you know, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of the guys at the bigger schools, like guys

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Speaker 1: I played with, and you know, cancer for example, Kansas

395
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Speaker 1: guys very very rarely. Can Kansas guys or Kentucky guys

396
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Speaker 1: or Carolina guys or Dude guys, can they survive overseas

397
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Speaker 1: or in the minor leagues because you just got to

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Speaker 1: motivate yourself. There's no crowd, there's no fancy locker room,

399
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Speaker 1: there's no great shoes. Right, there's nobody sucking you off,

400
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 1: like you just gotta go and hoop and and the

401
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:57,920
Speaker 1: other and and oh yeah, by the way, the other

402
00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 1: guy is some guy you've never heard of in your life,

403
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Speaker 1: like Shaan Coulson, who is going to try and kick

404
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Speaker 1: your ass and embarrass you every fucking night. Right, So

405
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Speaker 1: there is I think there's something kind of magical to

406
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: it to those of us who've been through it, the

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Speaker 1: realness of it. Um and you're playing against other players,

408
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,560
Speaker 1: but it is like everyone's like I remember we um.

409
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Speaker 1: So the next year, the wind Jammers went away, and

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Speaker 1: there was there were two teams in Florida on that

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Speaker 1: side of the coast. One was in uh one was

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Speaker 1: Fort Myers, and any other one Roy William Roy Jones,

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Speaker 1: and Roy Jones was in sarah Sota. So Roy Jones

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Speaker 1: owned a team in sarah Sota and then there's a

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Speaker 1: team in Fort Myers. So the way it worked was, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we we flew into Tampa, we drove to sarah Sota,

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Speaker 1: played them the next day. Then drove to Fort Myers,

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Speaker 1: played them back to back nights, drove back, played Sara Sota,

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Speaker 1: flew home. You know, so you're playing, uh four games

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Speaker 1: and five nights and and you know, two different teams.

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Speaker 1: But this is what I remember. Yeah, and you had

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Speaker 1: like the day off you had was like you play.

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Speaker 1: We would play in Oklahoma, then we play in Dodge City, Salina,

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Speaker 1: back in Oklahoma twice in a row, and so we

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Speaker 1: play four games, and we'd have a day off for travel.

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Speaker 1: So we land in Tampa and we getting we we

427
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 1: have essentially kind of the day off because of travel,

428
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,199
Speaker 1: and we had like a fifteen passenger van two and

429
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 1: then like an suv and our radio guy was a

430
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 1: guy we actually had radio because Oklahoma was like a

431
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 1: big thing before obviously they had the thunder and a

432
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: radio guy was a local radio guy that covered us

433
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: at os U. And we had a bunch of we

434
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 1: had like five os U guys. So we as got

435
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: in Robert down and we talked him into stopping. We

436
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: get a case of beer, right, we we stopped in Tampa,

437
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: get a case of beer. Pound a bunch of beers,

438
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 1: pull up in Sarasota and and hang out and then

439
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 1: we play Roy Jones the next day. So give me

440
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: your best USB I have. I'm gonna give you my

441
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: best USBL story. You'll help motivate jog your memory. Okay,

442
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 1: we play the Pennsylvania we play, we play in d C.

443
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 1: I don't remember the DC team's name playing d C,

444
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 1: and we had Darren Mclinton and then we had ship

445
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: I can't remember the team. Yeah, de Clints. De Clint's

446
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 1: been on the pod. Great player, great dude. So de

447
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: Clinton was in the point guard and then um man,

448
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: we had his buddy, his best one of his best friends.

449
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: Was played at West Virginia. I'll think of it in

450
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: a second. Anyway, they were, you know, basically d C guys. Okay,

451
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: and um so we play that night and it's crazy,

452
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: like a crazy, crazy crowd because you got these d

453
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: C guys coming back. We played at George Washington. So

454
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: the next so we we sleep in d C. And

455
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: then they're like, hey, we play in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania at

456
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: Lehigh University. Darryl Dawkins coached the team, the Pennsylvania Valley Dogs. Right, yes,

457
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 1: we play them the next day and so we get up.

458
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 1: It's like all of a sudden, everybody's phones ringing, like

459
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: seven o'clock and and but you know this is when

460
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: people had cell phones, but you still use you you

461
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: called the room. So this is two thousand. So we

462
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: get up and like, hey man, we gotta go. We

463
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: got an early game, Like all right, well, what do

464
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: you mean an early game? Like we started eleven o'clock?

465
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck? Like you got a bunch of

466
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: grown ass dudes who played in d C. Everybody went,

467
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 1: you know, all those guys, those d C guys went

468
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: out and um, and we gotta we gotta get up

469
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: and played eleven o'clock. Alright, so we shake out the cobwebs.

470
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: We meet it like eight, We drive a couple of hours.

471
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: We go all the way to beth lhamp Pennsylvania, and

472
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: we get there. We're like, hey, we're hungry, Like, no problem,

473
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: bring you some food. So it was a special day.

474
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: It was you know, it's in the summer, so it

475
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: was a day in which they want to fill up

476
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: the arena and they did so by getting all the

477
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,360
Speaker 1: local summer camps and you know, free admission. So there's

478
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: kids everywhere. You know, they've got kids and balloons in

479
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 1: a bounce house and whatever. Meanwhile, we haven't eaten ship.

480
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: We played. We just played like you know, I don't know,

481
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: twelve hours ago, not even twelve you know when up

482
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: twelve hours ago. So they're like, no problem. They bring

483
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,479
Speaker 1: like hot dogs in to the locker room, hot dogs

484
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: and waters and cokes and Snickers bars, and you know,

485
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 1: you're like, are you kidding me? Like this is and

486
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: then they start talking. You start talking to yourself and

487
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: you're like, look, when I was fifteen, I used to

488
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: go down and play a mile square park and I'd

489
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: eat all that ship anyway. So we go out, we play,

490
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: win the game. We're flying out that night out of

491
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 1: Philadelphia because we played in New York and whenever. And

492
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: I think we got like twenty or twenty five dollars

493
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: a day per diem, and they like, hand you like

494
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: fifteen dollars. You're like, hey, man, where's the rest of

495
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: my money? Like, no, we took out breakfast. We breakfast. Wait,

496
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: they counted who ate how many odd dogs and took

497
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: it out of your That's the usb L I give me.

498
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: I had. Let's see, I had a similar one with

499
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: Darren Morning story. He was there and then he wasn't there.

500
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 1: And you know, like I said, I didn't get paid,

501
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: so I didn't care. I was just playing basketball, filling

502
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: with my parents. Um. Apparently Darren morning Star had been

503
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 1: pocketing that per deal, so Darren's just didn't show back

504
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: up because that the money never really trickled down to

505
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: where it was supposed to go. But one of my

506
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: favorite stories this was my introduction into like grown man basketball.

507
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: Do you want to do this ship or is this

508
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: not for you? Very similar trip. We go to d

509
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: C play Yank Dare and those guys that at Georgie

510
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: and um, then we're going to like Avalon, New Jersey

511
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: to play a team. Um, we didn't get the SUV,

512
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 1: so we had Sudan, so we were you know, you

513
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,479
Speaker 1: stuff your legs in your like your back pocket, you

514
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: cram into this little these little sedans and we're on

515
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: our way to New Jersey. We got in it probably

516
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, three thirty. We were gonna play again,

517
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: probably at two o'clock game, an afternoon game on Saturday.

518
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: And I get a knock on my door at like

519
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty minutes after we get there. Um, and it's

520
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: one of our vets and he bangs on the door

521
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what's something And he drops off of

522
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: a garbage bag and he's like, hey, I need you

523
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: to care of this. And I'm like, well, what to

524
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: take care away? And he opens and it's everybody's socks

525
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 1: and you reforms and jocks and tights and you name it.

526
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: It was in that fucking garbage bag. And it was

527
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: my job to get up the next morning as the

528
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: root um take that ship to the laundromat, sit in

529
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: the laundromat, wash it all, dry it all, have it

530
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: handed back out, and then go out and start and

531
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 1: try to score twenty the next night, and do that

532
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: all the way, you know, through the East, the Eastern

533
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: Corridor as we as we tried to win games and

534
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: and real talk to what you were saying before, like

535
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: all jokes aside, that ship will weed out like any

536
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: anybody who isn't built for that life. There's there's no

537
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: faking that. You're either on that grind and trying to

538
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: prove something and wanting to make a living out of that,

539
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: or you will quickly go take your nine five or

540
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: what have you because you just can't survive. Um. And

541
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: if you've been coddled at all. If there's there's any

542
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: coddling taking place in your life, um, that will quickly,

543
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: that will quickly let you know that that that that

544
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: that this isn't forced you man. And I saw that Doug,

545
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: like Jay Scotton, is a friend of mine and he

546
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: played for Shakan's older brother. So by the time I

547
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: got to the cb A, James had played and for

548
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: the Bulls. I think he had been on with the

549
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: Sonics for a little bit and all I knew was

550
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: the USB L. So to be in the c b

551
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: A was a step up. I was on my grind

552
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: like happy to be there, happy for the little bit

553
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: of thousand dollars. I made like happy to be on

554
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: the court. When James came down, he couldn't he couldn't

555
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 1: accept it like there there wasn't there wasn't an ability

556
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: to accept not being on a on a on a

557
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: chartered plane, or in the or in the Ritz Carlton

558
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: and and having to share of room or or taking

559
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: a bus um And so he looked after I don't

560
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: know two months, he quit. It just wasn't for him.

561
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: But he had a taste something so much better that

562
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: he wasn't he wasn't willing to like recalibrate um and

563
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,479
Speaker 1: do what he had to do to get back. So

564
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: you saw that a lot coming through those minor grids. Okay,

565
00:27:54,960 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: Damien Owens was the he was y oh, could go,

566
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: could go? Okay? Yeah, And and honestly, like Damian Owens was,

567
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: he's like a born too soon guy right like he

568
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: right now, like he would be a hybrid player who

569
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,239
Speaker 1: could guard every position. He wasn't a great great he

570
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: didn't shoot it well enough for for two thousand twenty basketball,

571
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: but he was he was nice. So we had how

572
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: about this team? So we had Damian Owens, We had

573
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: le Bradford Smith right who gave Jordan thirty one one night,

574
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: and then Galen Young who was a second round pick

575
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: out of UNC Charlotte. He's a coach now. Yeah, yeah,

576
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: he was nice. Uh. We had Bubba Wells, we had

577
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: I mean, we had we had some dudes. Now and

578
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: I remember, and I've said this before on the podcast,

579
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: and this kind of this kind of lends itself a

580
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: little bit to what you're talking about, and if there's

581
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: another part to it, and we also had um uh

582
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: I told you Willie Burton and there was a couple

583
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 1: of a couple other guys who we had Yanko dar

584
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: Yanko Dari was ce a c B A. I'll tell

585
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: you that story a second, but um, I remember I

586
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: was talking to my dad in the phone and my

587
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: dad and I was like, we're getting ready for the

588
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: first game or it was like in training camp. I

589
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: was like, Dad, these we got some we got guys

590
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: that can hoop. Like, I don't even understand why Willie

591
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: Burton's in the c B A. And he's like, son,

592
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: there's always a reason. And I was like really, He's

593
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: like yeah, He's like, look, there's always a reason. And

594
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: I go, what do you mean. He's like, sometimes it's

595
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: girls sometimes that people, you know, they it's their weight,

596
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they won't work. Some kids are some

597
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: guys are just dumb. You know, guys are selfish. You

598
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: guys smoke, Guys drink that. He's like, there's always a

599
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: reason why guys don't make it. It's it's not usually

600
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: not because of town. He's like, you know, look, you're

601
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: in it because I can't shoot or people think you

602
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: can't shoot, Like that's it. There's always a reason why

603
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: guys aren't in the league. And I remember this, and

604
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna name names, but I remember driving to

605
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: the first U s b O game in the history

606
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: of the Oklahoma Storm and I and I get in

607
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: my my car from the Holiday Inn and next to

608
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: the Holiday Inn literally was a strip club, like in

609
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: the in the in the parking lot is a strip club.

610
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: And we used to joke like, hey, why don't they

611
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: just send your check to the strip club and cut

612
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: the middleman out right? And one of the one of

613
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: the guys who could really play wasn't in the NBA anymore,

614
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: Like his car was in the parking lot of the

615
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: strip club. Like this is like two hours for the game.

616
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: Then I go, like, you keep going and there's a

617
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: sonic um, you know, like dry sonic drive through whatever.

618
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: One of the guys who could really play was like

619
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: was kicking back, drinking of forty four ourns coke and

620
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: eating two cheeseburgers for the game, right, And then you

621
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: know one of the dudes was just batshit crazy, and

622
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: like you kind of keep going on. You're like, oh,

623
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: that's why they're in this league. So yeah, it's fact. Okay,

624
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: So you go to c b A, where'd you play

625
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: in the c B A Washington Um up there in

626
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: Union Union Gap area like it's but I loved it?

627
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: But uh who was on my team? And we had

628
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: Art Long Cincinnati. We had David punched a police force. Yes,

629
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: like how how how wild do you have to be

630
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: to do that? Ship, Um, we had you gotta be

631
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: you listen, nobody fouls Art in practice to day Arts

632
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: having a bad day, don't foul that dude. Art had

633
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 1: six feet of a radius around his locker, like there

634
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: was you weren't even he was just understood you don't

635
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: want to be here that you just didn't know what

636
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: would happen, like you didn't know it was at any

637
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: given time. So it was better to keep Um. David

638
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: Vandropool really good guard. He was him and Darry McClinton. Uh,

639
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: um from that DC area really good caught a liquid

640
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: the Wizards for a while, really good player. Um. We

641
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 1: had Dwayne Cooper. We had a guy named List Mills

642
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: who was a you take stayed really good. Um kind

643
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: of think Cotton came down for a while. Carlos Daniel,

644
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: he's the head strength and condition the guy at Vanderbilt.

645
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: Now for their basketball program, we have we don't really

646
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: good team. We want a championship. That first year, UM

647
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: Dayling Young and all those Um Paul Whooper, Paul Whooper

648
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: legendary coach and I believe Australia and definitely in the

649
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: c B a UM and we just had a we

650
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: just had one of those teams dug where you had

651
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: a lot of guys that were on the same the

652
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: same grind, which was like, we don't want to be here,

653
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: but we're here and we're going to prove to all

654
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: you guys why we shouldn't be here, right, And so

655
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: we were able to weed out for the most part

656
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: the guys that we're gonna be now. We we were

657
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: all you know, we we had guys to be in

658
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,239
Speaker 1: a strip club and stuff like that. But for the

659
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: most part, we were all really really hungry and in

660
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: a really similar mindset and probably time in our life.

661
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: So we were able to capture you know, uh, some

662
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: magic in a year there. And it was great for

663
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: me because that ship was no illegal defenses, I mean

664
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: obviously the NBA rules so at the time it was

665
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: illegal defenses. Sorry, UM. And you had some gifted gifted

666
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: score so you talked about Colson, you had Victor Page.

667
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: You had guys that if they you isoed on one

668
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: side of the court and it was my job to

669
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: stop you. There was no help like that ship was

670
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: a long night because all they did was run Vic

671
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: off of like a little you know, a little horns

672
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: cut and he got too isolated on that one side

673
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: of the court and he was trying to get fifty one.

674
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: And so they were multiple guys in the in the

675
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: c B A. Jamal Robinson um trying to think of

676
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: the dudes who were getting just buckets and we're really

677
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: gifted with the ball. So it really made you understand

678
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: that there was more to the game than than what

679
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: you put stock in. Right, there was a lot of

680
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: there was a lot of ship that went into to

681
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: play in that game. Um, if you wanted to be

682
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: a promp. And so from there, you know, all of

683
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: those names that you just mentioned, what they would do

684
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: with us have you probably went through a too. San

685
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: Antonio would call you in the off season and say, hey,

686
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: there's a workout. We want you to come out, or

687
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: Detroit would call you and there'll be a workout, and

688
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: when you got there, you'd see thirty people from the

689
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: c B A that you bumped head with with all year,

690
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: and you were all there to compete over a two

691
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: days span for probably one invite training camp, and that

692
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: was it. Like you were dropped in and they were like, hey,

693
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: good luck with that ship, and they were gonna watch

694
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: you guys like beat the ship out of each other

695
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: for two days and see which one of you would

696
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: come out alive, and they might or might not invite

697
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: you to either summer League or to their to their vetcan.

698
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: And that was cb a life. How did you imagine

699
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: make the league? So I don't know how, because I too,

700
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, I had great relationship with my dad, still do,

701
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: and he would call and be like, how did it go?

702
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: And I'm like, whoa, I didn't do anything particularly great,

703
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: Like you know, they're guys there to score it better

704
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: than me me, and there there there guys bigger and

705
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: more athletic. Doug. I would go in there and I

706
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: would I would just play the way I thought I

707
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: was supposed to write. I would defend my ass off.

708
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: I would share the ball all the ship that you

709
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: would think uh to shine in a scenario like that,

710
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: you you you wouldn't do you think you need to

711
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 1: take it and get twenty in. But I was discounting

712
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: how how good coach Popovich and you know the detroits

713
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: that how good they were at identifying um basketball players, right, Like,

714
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: I think I think you're reading I think you're reading

715
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 1: it wrong. I think I think you're doing or maybe

716
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: you're being uh, you're being uh, you're underselling yourself. Like

717
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: here's the mistake that guys make when they go to

718
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: the c b A or now the g League, right

719
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: is they're like, yo, man, I gotta get buckets. I

720
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: get the league. Like, hey, guess what, dude, you're in

721
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: the They have guys in the NBA that can get right.

722
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: But the guys that make right, the guys that make

723
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: thirty or forty million dollars a year, they get buckets. Now, look,

724
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: you've got to be able to make a shot, right,

725
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: you gotta be make a shot. But can you do

726
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: all like that Billy Donovan says of the time, you

727
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 1: don't have the ball? Can you? If you're a point guard?

728
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 1: Like I tell us all the time, like I nailed

729
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: the Kendall Marshall thing, and Kendall Marshall's dad's like tweeting,

730
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm I feel bad that the kid

731
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: got hurt and so. But my thing was like Kendall

732
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: Marshall couldn't be a backup point guard in the league,

733
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: and people didn't understand. I was like, look, when you're

734
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: backup point guard the league, you gotta pick up, you

735
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: gotta change the tempo of the game. You gotta be

736
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: alla make a shot, you gotta you gotta push the basketball.

737
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: He was a great passer, but he couldn't really shoot,

738
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: He couldn't really finish, and it can't really guard anybody.

739
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: And in order to get the volume of assists, you

740
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: have to get the volume of touches like that when

741
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: you're playing ten minutes of game, you're playing against you know,

742
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: some backup point guard who's a who's a converted to

743
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: who's just trying to come out and get like you

744
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: can't do that anyway. My point is that like dudes

745
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: go to the G league or go to those workouts, like, man,

746
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get buckets. That's how I get the league.

747
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: Like nah, dude, like that, that right, that's the that

748
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: s I see. If you can go one on one

749
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: in a shot clock and get a bucket, that that's great.

750
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: But we have we have two guys that get million

751
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: dollars that can do that. You gotta guard, you gotta

752
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: move the ball, you gotta stay on the fucking way.

753
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: We have a whole roster of guys that can do that,

754
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: we're looking for one piece and so but no one

755
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: explained that to me, right So, like I'm in there

756
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: just doing what I think is is, you know, playing

757
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: solid basketball while a lot of other people are doing that.

758
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: And so you know what happens was I get I

759
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: get that invite to VET camp because I am the

760
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: one that they're like, oh shit, he'll guard somebody, you

761
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: know what I mean, or like. And it's a fascinating

762
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: thing because I see it to this day and I

763
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: work with a lot of high school kids, um a

764
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 1: lot of them that won't ever play, you know, in college,

765
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 1: and I talk a lot to them about like, hey man, look,

766
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: it's it's when you're playing on the team, it is

767
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: valuable to have have a role, a defined role, by

768
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: into that role and and and be the best in

769
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: that role that you can be. Like not everyone can

770
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: have this job, and it's it's unfortunate, Like I know,

771
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: your mom, you don't only hear that where your dad

772
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: wants to take you in transfer, and I'm okay with

773
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: that because everyone has to do what's best for their kids.

774
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: But sometimes you've got to understand what your fucking role

775
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: is and you have to play it. And and so

776
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, I those guys that you're talking about, what

777
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: I like to say about them is there they were

778
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: just too good for their own good, right, Like who

779
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: gifted with the ball to put value in doing anything

780
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: other than having the ball in their hands? Never mind?

781
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: And Alan Iverson was was, you know, ten times better

782
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: than you'll ever be with you You're just nice enough

783
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: with it that you think it's supposed to be yours

784
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: and that's just not the reality. And so you know,

785
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: I wind up getting pulled out of those c b

786
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: A like most kids, because I wasn't good enough with

787
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: the ball to ever misconstrue it. I'm like, okay, fun, well,

788
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: I gotta do something else. And so I figured out

789
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: what I could do, which was defend and you know,

790
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: knockdown shots. So you get so, so did you go

791
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: to camp and they the league or do you get

792
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: a call up and make the league? Yeah? So I

793
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: wind up going So Here's like, I mean, we could

794
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: just going on. So I wind up going to San

795
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: Antonio Summer League. Um, they pulled me out of Summer League,

796
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: and Alvin Gentry is like, hey, we're shutting you down

797
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: in summer League. We're offering you a contract right now.

798
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: We don't want you to go out there and and try.

799
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: Literally said to me, we can't have you going out

800
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: there and getting a deal from anybody else, so we're

801
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: gonna shut you down. So I'm like, all right, cool,

802
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: but I got my money, so I'm straight. So I

803
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 1: go to vetcamp. Um Antonio Daniels takes me out. We've

804
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: caught the new Lexus. Like, I'm just like, I'm just

805
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: bugging out right. You wait, wait, wait, you bought a

806
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: new Lexus the second you've got some money? Yeah, who's

807
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 1: I got? What? What? What years? What years is this?

808
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: This is done two thousand and one maybe what like

809
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: two thousand and one? It was a G S or

810
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: thirty maybe the G four thirty. You know they had

811
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: the G S. There was a three thirty or four. Yeah,

812
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: that was that was the first though. When I first

813
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: got money, I got a used version of that with

814
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: some sweet rims on it. I get the same car.

815
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: I can't called as that was a great car. That

816
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: was a great car, right, So I'm like doing it

817
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: like I mean, I'm a spur. While I'm in the hotel,

818
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: we're looking for apartments and then training camp ends, and

819
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, dude, we're gonna cut you them, and

820
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the what the wait wait a minute,

821
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: what the fun? So they decided to keep their dial

822
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: because the one part that I hadn't been able to

823
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: put together, Doug um was was was really understanding how

824
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: to space the floor and where to be in tick

825
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: and roll. And it was obvious when you watched me play,

826
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: even in the early tape with the Sixers, like when

827
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: when ship was going on, I didn't know where to be. Um.

828
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: I played hard, I defended, UM, I could do some things,

829
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: but I didn't know how to just chill in the

830
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: corner and lift out of the corner when I was strong.

831
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: So like I didn't understand that yet, and so I

832
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: needed that. I needed to learn how to play. So

833
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: I go back to the C B A and then

834
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: um I did I go back to Yakama right the

835
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: leak folds, Um not before I break my leg though,

836
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 1: So I go home. Um Jamal Tomas sets a blind

837
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: screen on. I mean, while I'm hawking the ball and

838
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: I couldn't get my leg out from under me. So

839
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,959
Speaker 1: I fall all the way over it and I break

840
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: the non weight bear and bone and in the lower

841
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: half of my left life. Um. So, so I'm back

842
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 1: now to is it the IBL now in Sioux Fall,

843
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: South Dakota, And I had not played a game. It's

844
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: Randy Livingston. Um, it's myself. It's uh, Jamal Robinson and

845
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: Carlos Daniel and I have not played a game, but

846
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna suit up the next night for the first time.

847
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting at Denny's. We're eating breakfast, and the

848
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: phone rings and he says, Hi, yeah, is Roger there.

849
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: This is Tony Delio from the seventies and my my

850
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: uncle is full ship like He's like, so, I'm like, uncle, shuck,

851
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: stop sucking with me. Man. I hang the phone up

852
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: and so I go back to eating and they're like, yo,

853
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: what was I'm like, don't worry about it. It rings

854
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: right back and he's like, remember, Roger, this is Tony

855
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: Delio from the seventies. Sixers. We'd like to offer you

856
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,919
Speaker 1: a ten day contract and we hadn't played a game.

857
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: I had played the game. I hadn't played the game

858
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: since I don't know, fifth six game into the CBA season.

859
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: So I'm like, fuck, I just got I just got

860
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: called up. Um, I get my ship, I get the

861
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: Philly And I asked Larry Brown, I'm like, yo, you

862
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: know what, what's the deal. He's like, look that big

863
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: got traded. Um, he missed the deadline for us to

864
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: be able to reacquire him for him to make the

865
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: playoff rosters. So we need a body for the playoffs. Um.

866
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: And I'm really good friends with Pop. Pop said, you

867
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: were great in camp. He was like, look, you were

868
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, you just weren't ready to play yet. He

869
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: was like, but you were everything you know that you'd

870
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: want in a in a guy for this this spot

871
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: on a team. Um. You Like he was my best

872
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 1: white man in my wedding. Like, we're really good friends.

873
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:39,399
Speaker 1: So he was like, if you ever get a chance

874
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: to call this key call so that Doug, like, I

875
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: say this in a in a in a shorter version,

876
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: two kids at every basketball camp, I speak at um

877
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: and it's corny as ship and and it's no, it

878
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: wasn't how I scored the ball, or how big I was,

879
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: or how many ducks I had or assist or rebounds,

880
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: what I was a good dude. I worked really hard.

881
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: I impressed that that that impression was made on great

882
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: Popa and he spoke up for me with Larry Brown

883
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: and they pulled me up. That's how I got to

884
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: the MG. Yeah, it's it's you know, like this is

885
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: the thing and we we look and I don't want

886
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: to get into like a political discussion. I do think

887
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: that what's always been lost in a like a Kaepernick thing,

888
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: right is you gotta have what I call rabbi in

889
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 1: the room, somebody who believes in you. And like, look,

890
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 1: I think Kaepernick would have been back in the league

891
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: had his girlfriend not put out the meme about the

892
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: Ravens owner. Why because Greg Roman was his offensive coordinator

893
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. He was in Baltimore, Like that was

894
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: his guy. That was this guy who could vouch for

895
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: You have to have somebod who's gonna vouch for you.

896
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,479
Speaker 1: And and by the way, Kaepernick originally lost his job

897
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: because he people didn't see him as a leader. He

898
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: was a loof. He had his headphones on. If you

899
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: remember at the facility is always and anyway, the point

900
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: is that there's a lot more there's Like I said,

901
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: there's always a reason, right, Like nobody wants an asshole,

902
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: and I this is how I say it. I'm not

903
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: nearly as nice as you are. I tell college kids

904
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: all the time, like, hey, look, I know you all

905
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: think you're going to league, but listen, uh, if you're lebron,

906
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: you can be an asshole like he's not, but you

907
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: could be an asshole. If you're honest, you can be

908
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: You're so you're here, Steph, you could none of them are.

909
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: They're incredible guys, but you could be a dick and

910
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: nobody's you're you're so good it doesn't matter. But if

911
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: you're the fifteen dude, you have to be the world's

912
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 1: greatest human being every day. Pete Carrill, the old Princeton coach,

913
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: called you want to be a light bulb, right, you

914
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: want to light up every room that you walk into. Like, look,

915
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: that's why Scotty Scotty Brooks has been on my party,

916
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: is hey, coach? Like, why do you think Scotty Brooks

917
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: made it in the league? Like he was a great

918
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: score in college UC Irvine, but like, and he was

919
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: tougher than ship. You gotta be tough, but then you've

920
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: gotta be a guy that everybody loves. And that's what

921
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: you were. And that's how right and and and it

922
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: wasn't until Greg It's okay. So you're with the seven section.

923
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: What time of year is this? This is April, dude,

924
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: This is like I don't know, five six games left

925
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: in that two thousand and one season. So I had

926
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: just got there when the playoffs started. They had to

927
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: give me a second ten day to hold me over

928
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: for like four days until the playoffs started so I

929
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: could be on their playoff ross. So, uh, how much

930
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: did you play? I mean, I'm looking at your stats.

931
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 1: I actually know the answer. Like anyway, I don't. I

932
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: didn't play at all. I played in Indiana one night,

933
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: I think, uh probably ten or fifteen minutes through the

934
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: first round of the playoffs, we played Indie seven. I

935
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: think we played uh Toronto seven. And what happened was

936
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: in the Toronto series, we didn't have anybody who would

937
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: guard fins. So to remember the series, Vincent Allen, it

938
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: was like an all time um scoring like back in

939
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: fourth series. Between those two it was some of the

940
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: best scoring I've ever seen or witnessed, like in person,

941
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: those two from game to game kind of going back

942
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: at four with right. But within that series, um, there's

943
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: you like NBA practices at that time of the year,

944
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 1: nothing's going on, like you're coming out, You're walking through

945
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 1: what happened like the day before. The starters aren't doing anything. Um,

946
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: so you're maybe getting some three on three with some

947
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: of the guys that are on the bench, but probably

948
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: not so You're You're probably just gonna go out there

949
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: and get some shots up and if there's a rookie,

950
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: maybe you get to play him one on one. So

951
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: we were doing very little, but the conversation in practice

952
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: was can who can guard Vince? And you know, I

953
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: was like, you know, a little sheepish at first, I

954
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: could guard him, and they were like, you know, I

955
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: remember them looking at me really Larry Brown and and

956
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: and Dave Hanners and and uh John Custer just dismiss him,

957
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: like right, whatever. So that series goes on. They don't

958
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: play me in that series, and we have the same

959
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: problem going into the Milwaukee series where it's like, all right,

960
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: who can guard Ray? And you know, I'm again like

961
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 1: I can guard him, and so you know, we get

962
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: in a game I think it's games game five, maybe

963
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: in game six, like I don't play early in that series.

964
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 1: We go down by I want to say, like twenty

965
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: five or twenty six in Milwaukee. And so at that

966
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: point they're going to clear the bench. And when they

967
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: cleared the bench, we brought them all the way back

968
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: to within striking distance to where they're like, all right,

969
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna put the starters back in and try to

970
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,879
Speaker 1: close it. Now the starters didn't close it. But it's

971
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: another thing I say to these these fucking kids. Man, look,

972
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: you get an opportunity to stay ready, man like for

973
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 1: to the best of your ability, be ready when your

974
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: numbers called, because you don't know if you ever get

975
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 1: that opportunity again. You never know. So like I made

976
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: an impression to where they played me game seven. When

977
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: they played me Game seven, does I was, I was

978
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: having an outer body experience, like I come in, I

979
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: get a dunk, I get I get a steel and

980
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: a dunk. I hit it three out of the corner,

981
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: like and one Tim Thomas. It was I was watching

982
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 1: it from somewhere in the stand. That's how like crazy

983
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: this moment was for me. Uh but that was the

984
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 1: rest of it, was what it was like. They played

985
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: me the rest of the the finals and then um,

986
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: once Larry Brown fell out of love with me. The

987
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: next year I barely played for Philly, but you know,

988
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: the roller coaster of emotion, like the the the the

989
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: lowest of lows, having like been out of the c

990
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 1: b A even with with the with the terrible leg injury,

991
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: to playing in the Eastern Conference Finals in game seven,

992
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: like the first sub off the bench was like I

993
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: couldn't even like, it's like Hollywood type ship. Um. So

994
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,720
Speaker 1: you go and you play the Lakers in the NBA Finals,

995
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: y um. Okay, So now we get to the Kobe

996
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 1: stuff right. Game one was the you guys go and

997
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: steal Game one. AI scores forty eight. Should we point

998
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: out he took forty one shots? Can you imagine the game? U? No, no, no,

999
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: cot the quins. That's a cut. No, no, forty one shots.

1000
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: By the way, you were a plus eleven, Not sure

1001
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: if you're aware, played nine, played nineteen minutes. Okay, what

1002
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: was the human what was the scattered report? Kobe struggled

1003
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: that game seven of twenty two Shack was seventeen of eighteen.

1004
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: He was nasty. Had Shack had forty four forty four

1005
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: that's because you guys and this is and you guys

1006
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: had my tump right like he year right and and

1007
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: Chack had forty four, um forty four and twenty and

1008
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: five assists and they lost. Um okay, So what what

1009
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 1: was that? What do you what do you remember about

1010
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: the first scattere Brant. I don't remember the scouting report

1011
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: on Kobe. I remember I remember watching the film on

1012
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 1: him and trying to figure out like what I could

1013
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: do because again I didn't remember. Remember, I didn't know

1014
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: offense yet, so I didn't understand like the intricacies of

1015
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: the triangle. I didn't understand like I did what I

1016
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: was older about how with spot he wanted to be at.

1017
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: But I just you know, I watched the guy on

1018
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: film and I was like Jesus, like, you know, this

1019
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: isn't a jump shooter. But this isn't this isn't a

1020
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: guy who can't shoot the jump shot. It's it's this

1021
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: is a like well rounded scoring machine. Like what am

1022
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: I going to do? And so what I decided to

1023
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: do was what what just boilerplate like deny the hell

1024
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: out of him. If I could stop him from getting

1025
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: the ball um wherever he went, then I stood a

1026
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: chance to like slow him down. It wasn't great team

1027
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 1: defensive principles, but at that point it wasn't listen. Listen

1028
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: just just so you know, just see Like my so,

1029
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: my dad was a college coach coach some professionally used

1030
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: to but then he became this au coach, and it's

1031
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: the same flot like and I'm always fascinated that so

1032
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: many people don't employ employ this philosophy, which is like, hey,

1033
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: when push comes to shove, just deny the guy the ball.

1034
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: You cut down the number of possessions he gets the ball.

1035
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: You're already kind of winning there, right like because they're like,

1036
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: fuck it, I'll go the other way. I mean, and

1037
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: the and the triangle, which I know, you know really well,

1038
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: now I got a chance. I was with the Lakers

1039
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: in their summer league and in three of their uh

1040
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: that mini camps and free agent mini camps or whatever,

1041
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: and my dad coached under Tex and and the the

1042
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: the entire the triangle is based upon where the ball moves.

1043
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: Like ever, there's a just fine movement and spacing based

1044
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: upon the one pass, the two passes, you know, the

1045
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: three pass um and it's amazing that like, look, if

1046
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: you just deny him the ball and they have other guys,

1047
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: they'll pass it to somebody else, correct, and someone else

1048
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: is gonna shoot it. And so that's where I found

1049
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: That's the space I found myself in early with Kobe. Um,

1050
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: and it was it was just like, let's try to

1051
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: keep it out of his hands and and see what

1052
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: we can do with it. The problem with that was

1053
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: like after after game one, I don't remember what the

1054
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: numbers were. Um, I remember feeling like, yeah, you got

1055
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 1: you did, you did a good job, like not really

1056
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: feeling your off, but feeling proud of the job that

1057
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: you had done. And it led to a win. And

1058
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,439
Speaker 1: then the rest of it was downhill. Bro, It wasn't

1059
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: you're in trouble after that? UM, I know I want

1060
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 1: to talk. I want to make this mostly about Kobe,

1061
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 1: but there was also that was obviously the game in

1062
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 1: which uh a, I made the shot over ty lewins

1063
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: In stepped over him. Um, what what was A? I like, Oh, hey,

1064
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: I was a special one brother. Uh look no, I'll

1065
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: just sign I knew that as a as a as

1066
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: a second year player, that I had to get to

1067
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 1: the hotel, get everybody's bags, and help get that shot out.

1068
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: And if I could be back down in the lobby

1069
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: within an hour, um, everyone would have done what they

1070
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: needed to do and then they'd be congregating back in

1071
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: the lobby to get into a limo to go to

1072
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 1: wherever the party was that night. And it was every

1073
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: city you went to. So I just had to hustle

1074
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: get my ship, get everybody ship passed out, and then

1075
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: back down to the lobby so I could be a

1076
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 1: part of like whatever was going all that night, and

1077
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: it was it was every city we went to. But

1078
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: he took care of He took care of um, everybody,

1079
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: um and not just like not a financial thing, but

1080
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: he just if you were his root, he's making sure

1081
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: you were looked out for right like his boys and

1082
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: people did roll with new He's making sure everything was

1083
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: taken care of. Like he was a phenomenal teammate. UM

1084
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 1: as a as a player, an older player would have

1085
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: been probably a little frustrating for me to play with

1086
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: him because you just barely got the ball. If you did,

1087
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: it was like late in the shot clock, and he

1088
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: was brilliant. But I wouldn't have loved that, just full

1089
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: to like being honest, like as an older player, I

1090
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: wouldn't have loved that. But for where I was in

1091
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 1: my career, it was great. And you know, I had

1092
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: some some good times to playing with Ai Man. He

1093
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: was a special one. I love that. I never forget

1094
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: my my we he was. He was Bubba Chuck When

1095
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: we played against me, I was at Notre Dame and

1096
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: we started five white dudes and my boy an Tony Weiss,

1097
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: she was now an assistant at Sienna. He checks into

1098
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: the game and one of my guys somebody shooting free

1099
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: throws and it's me, uh, Bubba Chuck or Ai and

1100
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 1: and Tone and we're like sandwich to him, We're they're

1101
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: shooting free throws games on Big Monday. And he goes, yo, man,

1102
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: what's up with all the white dudes that Notre Dame. Uh?

1103
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,919
Speaker 1: He goes five? Really five. He's like, I've never seen

1104
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: some ship like that. Igo you are in Indiana. He

1105
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: was funny, he was He was a funny dude. Um

1106
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 1: when did the when did was it? Because you went

1107
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: you went to Dallas and you became a starter. Okay,

1108
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: but It wasn't really until you went to Utah, but

1109
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: between Dallas and then Utah, even before Phoenix. You know,

1110
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: now you're playing against Kobe. I don't know how many

1111
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 1: times you guys played, It seemed like ten times a year. Um,

1112
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: when did it start to become a thing between the

1113
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: two of you? Yeah, it's it's started to cheat up

1114
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: in probably my second year in Utah and my first

1115
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: stint in Utah, when I was he knew that I

1116
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: was gonna be out there right like it was. This

1117
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: wasn't like you might see Ross and I you might

1118
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: not see him like, but I was. I was gonna

1119
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: be there, and I was starting to feel myself to

1120
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: the point where it wasn't just happy to be there anymore.

1121
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: It wasn't happy to be guarding Kobe anymore. It was

1122
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,399
Speaker 1: like I want some of that smoke, Like I want

1123
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 1: to like, let's go now. You know, I was never

1124
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: going to be able to do any of the things

1125
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 1: that he did, but the inner competitor in me had

1126
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: passed the point of being like happy to be there.

1127
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: I was now ready to like let my full competitive

1128
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, like uh self come out. And so that's

1129
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: when it started to get a little touchy that second year,

1130
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,240
Speaker 1: he and I gotten the dust up, like right across

1131
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: from our bench. I think he hit me with an

1132
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: elbow in the face and and like kind of you know,

1133
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: one of those where you're a triple threat and you

1134
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: just talked to like, you know, if I'm crowded your space,

1135
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 1: you're gonna win through and make me back up, you know,

1136
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: And so he clipped the right right under my eye.

1137
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: You know, my motherfucked him and we got you know,

1138
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: the rest had to get involved in that particular game

1139
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: was one because I think like after I got hot,

1140
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: he said something to the rest. I had like twenty

1141
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: something in the game against him, right, and I don't

1142
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: know who won the game, but I remember it was

1143
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: one of my better scoring performances against him. And which,

1144
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: who's this with Dallas? With Utah Utah? This is what

1145
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: you talk. And at that point I then knew, all right,

1146
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: like I might not, I'm never gonna be this illusion

1147
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 1: to think that that I'm like that, but I'm gonna

1148
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm here to compete every time I see him.

1149
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: I want I want to compete. And that's that's kind

1150
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: of when it took off. And then when we got

1151
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 1: the phoenix, that the whole thing just blew up. It

1152
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: got it got, it got. You know, it took on

1153
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: a life of its own that first year. Okay, so

1154
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 1: this is where and I did a pod where I

1155
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about what what became my relationship

1156
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: with him. But I'm I was under the impression, you

1157
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: do you tell me I'm wrong. I was under the

1158
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: impression that a lot of dudes in the NBA, especially

1159
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, for for a good portion of his career,

1160
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 1: didn't like him. Um, is that is that wrong? My? My?

1161
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 1: My mistaken? Like? What was his? What? What were other

1162
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: guys because because now he's even before his his death,

1163
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: like he was revered. What was his? By the way,

1164
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: you had twenty six in that game? Um, if you

1165
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: want to know, uh, yeah, you guys, you guys did lose.

1166
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: You took the l It was in l Is that

1167
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: the game in l A you're talking about? Okay, it

1168
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: was March two thousand and fourteen. You were nine of

1169
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: seventeen from the four You got seventeen shots up. Damn no,

1170
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: you're getting your jacket that that that year, that year

1171
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: you were getting shots um six or ten from the

1172
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: line though what was going on. I mean, you could

1173
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: have had even more, but you know you were you

1174
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: were a plus seven, So it's not your fault that

1175
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 1: your team lost. Kobe was eight of twenty three. He

1176
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: got twenty one free throw was damn dude, twenty one

1177
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: three yas, Yeah, you got taken care of That was

1178
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: that was the year they lost it. That was Listen

1179
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: to their lineup this this team did not win the

1180
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: NBA Championship. Shack, Kobe, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, and Rick Fox.

1181
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: That was their starting lineup. And they brought they brought

1182
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 1: Derek Fisher off the bench and Kareem Rush, Slava Medvedenko,

1183
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: Luke Walton, Devon George, Brian Russell, and Brian Cook. That

1184
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: that was it. That that's what you call a top

1185
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: heavy roster. Anyway they beat you, they beat you one.

1186
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: That he's you guys had a K forty seven, Your

1187
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: boy Carlos Arroyo, right, uh, Jared Collins, Gordon gear Check,

1188
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: and you had Googs on your team, Tom Googliata. You

1189
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: came out the bench with Raoul Lopez, Mikey Moore, Sasa

1190
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 1: Pavlovich and Oster Oyster Tag, Michael Ruffin and more Williams

1191
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: played played a minute. We're stacked. Bro. Be sure to

1192
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: catch the live edition of The Doug gott Leave Show

1193
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:03,080
Speaker 1: weekdays at three p m. Eastern noon Pacific. All right,

1194
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: that's it for part one of my Kobe slash Rajah

1195
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: Bell Talk with Rajah Bell. Okay, stay tuned for part two.

1196
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: We're not gonna wait a whole week. We'll drop that

1197
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: sucker tomorrow, the next day or whatever. We'll figure it out,

1198
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: but I thought you'd enjoy it. Just a quick programming note. Um,

1199
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: The Dug Gotlip Show is every day three to six

1200
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: Eastern twelve, three Pacific, And of course you can download

1201
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: the Doug Gotlip Show Podcast. That's where you have up

1202
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: to date information and stories and commentary on the trades

1203
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: that are made or are not made and what it

1204
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: means for the league. Um. Anyway, look, it's gonna the

1205
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: new one's gonna pop up in your cue very very soon.

1206
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: But tell a friend to download this one and then

1207
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: they'll get the next one as well. I hope you

1208
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Thanks so much for downloading. Don't forget to

1209
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: rate and review us. It does I'm told it helps us.

1210
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 1: Just just do it if you liked it. If you

1211
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: didn't like it, it's okay. You can rip it, fine, whatever.

1212
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: I don't know if that hurts us. Probably does, but

1213
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: if that makes you feel better, good, I guess. Thanks

1214
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: for listening. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is all ballm