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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine walking through a beautiful

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Speaker 1: cops of dense woods, enjoying your morning, when suddenly you

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Speaker 1: see a welcome to the fabulous Las Vegas suitcase, and

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Speaker 1: of course, curiosity gets the better of you. You open

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Speaker 1: it up and you don't find a lot of casino chips,

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Speaker 1: you don't find a lot of money. Inside, you find

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Speaker 1: a dead boy. That is exactly what happened. The body

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Speaker 1: of a five year old little boy found and a

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Vegas suitcase. But now who is he and

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Speaker 1: how did he get there? I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 1: Fox Nation in series XM one eleven. First of all,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at wha s shocking

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Speaker 1: story that's been developing since the weekend. New evidence released

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Speaker 1: by Indiana State Police moments ago in the discovery of

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Speaker 1: a little boy's body in the woods in southern Indiana,

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Speaker 1: the chilling reality that he may have been dumped there

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Speaker 1: from somewhere else. This photo of a suitcase. Indiana State

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Speaker 1: Police tell us the body of the little boy was

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Speaker 1: found inside this suitcase, and for the first time, they

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Speaker 1: have given a specific location the seven thousand block of

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Speaker 1: East Holder Road in Washington County, Indiana. The wooded area

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Speaker 1: there that southeast of Salem. Now the discovery was made

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Speaker 1: by a person hunting for mushrooms over the weekend. Also

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Speaker 1: new today, an autopsy was performed. Police have not released

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Speaker 1: any results, nor they have released no possible cause of death,

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Speaker 1: and they still do not know his identity. We do

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Speaker 1: know the police say the boy is only five to

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Speaker 1: eight years old. They add that he could have been

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Speaker 1: from anywhere, not just southern Indiana. Investigators say they have

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Speaker 1: been searching the wooded area where the boy was found,

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Speaker 1: but the information has not led them to any answers. Again,

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Speaker 1: a five year old little boy stuffed into a suitcase,

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Speaker 1: and the only clue we have so far is a

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Speaker 1: sticker of sorts on the suitcase. It says welcome to

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Speaker 1: the fabulous Las Vegas with the iconic photo there where

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Speaker 1: so many people take a picture in front of it

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Speaker 1: of the background of Vegas. Why who is this little boy?

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Speaker 1: How did he die? How can we trace his whereabouts?

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Speaker 1: Because that's the only way we're going to find out

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Speaker 1: who put him in that suitcase? Again, I Meancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us here on Fox Nation

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Speaker 1: in series six one eleven. I've got an all star

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Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know right now.

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Speaker 1: But very first I want to go to Max Lewis,

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter with Fox fifty nine joining us out of Indianapolis. Max,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. First of all,

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Speaker 1: what can you tell me about the area where the

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Speaker 1: suitcase was found? So, yeah, this is in Washington County, Indiana.

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Speaker 1: It's about were a little over halfway from Indianapolis down

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Speaker 1: to about the Louisville area, and it's extremely rural, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it really is shocking that this kind of thing

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Speaker 1: would happen here. These people don't really see much going

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Speaker 1: on down there, and for them to find a boy

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Speaker 1: in a suitcases pretty shocking. But as you said, the

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Speaker 1: person that found this was doing mushroom hunting, So you

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Speaker 1: think you can't just do that in some near you know,

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Speaker 1: some city, some urban areas. So he was in a

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Speaker 1: pretty rural area in some country roads not too far

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Speaker 1: off the interstate act. Okay, Max Lewis joined me from

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Speaker 1: Fox fifty nine. Got so many questions for you, Max,

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Speaker 1: you said, it's halfway between Louisville and what it's halfway

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Speaker 1: between Louisville and Indianapolis on the I sixty five corridor.

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Speaker 1: There how far aways is from I sixty five. It's

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Speaker 1: only a couple of miles from what I've been told

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Speaker 1: from police off of the interstate. There a couple of

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Speaker 1: miles off the interstate with me, as I said, an

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Speaker 1: all star pound. But before we get going with them,

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Speaker 1: having spoken to Max Lewis with Fox fifty nine, I

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Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our friends at

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Speaker 1: wh S eleven. The man who found this boy, Jeff Meredith,

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Speaker 1: is in agony, knowing he was one of the last

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Speaker 1: people to see this child's face. When I first saw

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Speaker 1: that little feller, immediately I felt that he was telling me,

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Speaker 1: help me, I need help. The Washington County Sheriff's Office

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Speaker 1: is holding a memorial service for the little boy. The

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Speaker 1: community is invited to honor him next Wednesday, June one,

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Speaker 1: at eleven in the morning. It will be held at

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Speaker 1: Weather's Funeral Home in Salem. And remember, if you know

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Speaker 1: anything about an unreported missing boy about five years old,

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Speaker 1: short hair, and about forty pounds, or if you saw

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Speaker 1: this suitcase in southern Indiana contact ESP at its designated

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Speaker 1: tip line this case, that number is eight eight eight

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Speaker 1: four three seven six four three two eight eight four

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Speaker 1: three seven six four three two. Straight out to doctor

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Speaker 1: Michelle Duprie, former forensic pathologist, medical examiner and detective. Author

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Speaker 1: of Homicide Investigation Field Guide and Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide,

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Speaker 1: which we need your expertise and both of these areas,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupree, First of all, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about the location, location, location, location. It's not

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Speaker 1: just about real estate. It gives me a plethora of clues.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna need to figure this thing out. First of all,

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Speaker 1: you've got a very rural, densely wooded area halfway between

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Speaker 1: Indiana and Louisville. It's just a few miles off the

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Speaker 1: I sixty five corridor. Now what does that tell me?

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Speaker 1: And what can I learn from the area and from

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Speaker 1: the suitcase? Doctor Dupree? Can I talk to you about

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Speaker 1: mushroom hunting, because when someone finds a body, they're the

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Speaker 1: first person you'll look at. When somebody calls nine one one,

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Speaker 1: they're the first person you look at. In no way

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Speaker 1: has the mushroom hunter come under suspicion, But that is

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Speaker 1: a starting place. So let's talk about mushroom hunting in itself,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprie. That was let me just say, you

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Speaker 1: don't hear that every day? Right, that's right answer, you don't. Well,

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, I was expecting a little more from

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Speaker 1: you than the yes no you just gave me. Let

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Speaker 1: me go to Max Lewis joining me, Fox fifty nine.

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Speaker 1: Apparently MOREL season is upon us. MOREL mushrooms love Indiana.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about it. Yeah, they sure do. They start

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Speaker 1: when the beginning of spring, and this suitcase was found

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Speaker 1: in early April, so right about the time. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people do it. It's a very common activity. They

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Speaker 1: go out, they go to deeply wooded areas they search

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Speaker 1: for these morale mushrooms and they're pretty actually hard to

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Speaker 1: find and kind of rare. So if you come upon them,

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Speaker 1: you're doing a pretty good job. But it's a common

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Speaker 1: activity that a lot of people do, so wouldn't really

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Speaker 1: raise any suspicion that this guy was going out and

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Speaker 1: doing that at this time. Old timers say, quote, when

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Speaker 1: the oat leaves are the size of a mouse's ear,

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Speaker 1: that's the time to look for morals. Okay, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to take that with a box of salt. Max Lewis again,

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Speaker 1: this guy that finds the body is not under suspicion.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that's where you start your investigation

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Speaker 1: if you've got nothing else. And joining me Karen L. Smith,

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Speaker 1: forensic expert joining us out of La Lecturer University, Florida,

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Speaker 1: host a hit series, Shattered Soul's podcast, Karen, we got enough.

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Speaker 1: So that's why I'm talking about this guy. This guy

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Speaker 1: is not under suspicion. He's not even a person of interest.

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Speaker 1: He's not a suspect. I'm saying very simply that when

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Speaker 1: you've got nothing, that's where you start your investigation. And

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Speaker 1: I guess we could also start with the suitcase and

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Speaker 1: what the little boy is wearing, but let's finish it

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Speaker 1: up about the mushroom hunter. Yeah, he's not under suspicion,

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Speaker 1: and nor should he be, Nancy, I think, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: whoa wait, wait wait, I don't think he should be. No,

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Speaker 1: that's where I just start. Somebody standing there with a

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Speaker 1: dead body. You darn right, the cops better investigate that guy.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I'm talking about questioning him. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that he should be under suspicion for doing anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: I think he came upon a suitcase. I think his

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Speaker 1: voice tells the story. He was very distraught. Okay, Karen,

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Speaker 1: just remember the poor soul. I think his name was

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Speaker 1: Ray Kronk that found Tott Mom's daughter kill Anthony. That

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Speaker 1: guy was so mistreated online by so many people. He

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Speaker 1: started calling police weeks before they finally came out and

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Speaker 1: followed up on his call. He said he saw something

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Speaker 1: weird and strange off the road, and I've been to

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Speaker 1: the spot many times. It is off the road, but

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Speaker 1: if you look carefully, you can see back into again

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Speaker 1: a densely wooded area. Finally it had rained, the rain stopped.

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Speaker 1: He called them again. They finally came out and it

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Speaker 1: was the remains of this little beautiful girl, Kelly Anthony,

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Speaker 1: who many people to this day believe was murdered by

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Speaker 1: her mother. Taught mom Casey Anthony. And he was demonized.

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Speaker 1: He was demonized when he's the one that did a

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Speaker 1: good deed and I believe that's what happened here. But

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Speaker 1: since we've got nothing, that's the launching spot for cops

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Speaker 1: to talk to. This guy that finds the right and

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Speaker 1: there's something else I'd like to point out, with regard

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Speaker 1: to the suitcase and where it was found, you can

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Speaker 1: do a little bit of criminal profiling from the person

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Speaker 1: who actually did leave it there. There was a handle

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Speaker 1: that you can retract or you can put it down.

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Speaker 1: Was that handle retracted or left extended? Was it just

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Speaker 1: tossed away or was that suit case placed down flat

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Speaker 1: and face up? Was it hidden or left out to

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Speaker 1: be found? This tells me about the person and whether

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Speaker 1: or not they cared enough for this little boy to

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Speaker 1: place it down, which means they may have spent maybe

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Speaker 1: a moment there, Maybe they left something of themselves behind

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Speaker 1: before they walked away, So it may be worth another

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Speaker 1: search of that area. Looking at the suitcase where it

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Speaker 1: was found, how it was found, can tell you a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the person who did leave it there,

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Speaker 1: you know. Thinking about the suitcase as well, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to find out was it mean was it bought specifically

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Speaker 1: for this purpose? If it was, that tells me the

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Speaker 1: little boy had been in Vegas, or at least in

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Speaker 1: the area of Vegas, Because I mean, you can go

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Speaker 1: to the airport, you can go to a lot of

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Speaker 1: places surrounding Vegas, and you can find that type of

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas, you know, paraphernalia, touristy stuff all over the state.

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Speaker 1: So I'm wondering about that crime stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: joining me right now, in addition to Max Lewis Fox

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Speaker 1: fifty nine, doctor Michelle Duprie, medical examiner Karen Smith, forensics

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Speaker 1: expert Katherine marsh is with us from the Special Victims

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Speaker 1: Liaison joining us from Charles County, co founder of Right

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Speaker 1: Response Consulting, and she's the star of the No Gray

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Speaker 1: Zone podcast. Catherine jump in, Yeah, I think there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of information from the suitcase and the location, but

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Speaker 1: for me, it's most important the fact that there's been

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Speaker 1: no discussion about this child. Nobody's talking about there's been

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Speaker 1: a missing child. I want to know, how do we

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Speaker 1: have a child that's been was discovered over a month ago,

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Speaker 1: nobody's reported a missing We don't have any records from

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Speaker 1: a school reporting a young child missing or a daycare.

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Speaker 1: Was this child ever in the public domain? Those are

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Speaker 1: all factors that I would want to know, because when

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Speaker 1: we're talking about where the suitcase was located, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely correct, You're absolutely correct. Nothing has indicated a

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Speaker 1: child matching this description is missing, and I want to

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Speaker 1: remind everybody about a case. Call little Miss Nobody, take

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Speaker 1: us an our cut one. This is justin lump Fox ten, Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: a little girl between three and five years old found

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Speaker 1: partially buried in the desert back in nineteen sixty. The

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Speaker 1: case still haunts the Yavapine County Sheriff's office. Who is

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Speaker 1: this little girl in the sketch dubbed little Miss Nobody.

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Speaker 1: Her partially buried remains found at Sandwash Creek in Congress, Arizona,

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Speaker 1: on July thirty first, nineteen sixty. Investigators believe her remains

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Speaker 1: had been burned one to two weeks before she was discovered.

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Speaker 1: The cause of death undetermined yet suspicious, and it was

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Speaker 1: ruled a homicide in that case, goes On, is certainly

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Speaker 1: not the first time we have encountered an unidentified child dead.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about this case? We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the suitcase now. Karen Smith, joining us from Shattered Soul's podcast,

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Speaker 1: was describing some emotional attachment the killer or the person

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Speaker 1: that disposed of the body. That person may have had

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Speaker 1: to the child. You know what, sorry, Karen, don't care.

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Speaker 1: I only care to the extent it could tell me

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Speaker 1: who left this child there, So I care about I

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Speaker 1: don't care about their emotions because they're going to write

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Speaker 1: and help. Number one. I'm interested in the forensic aspect.

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Speaker 1: Are there any fingerprints or is there any fiber If

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Speaker 1: this was a used suitcase, maybe there's fiber or DNA

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Speaker 1: of some sort in there that can help me track

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Speaker 1: back to the adult that left this. We believe five

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Speaker 1: year old little boy folded up in a suitcase like

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Speaker 1: he was an old pair of pajamas. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: now to our cut number two. This is Dakota Sherik

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Speaker 1: at w d RB right now in d Nast. Please

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Speaker 1: isn't giving too many details on this case, but investigators

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Speaker 1: do believe that somebody out there knows something that can

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Speaker 1: help them figure out who this child was. We are

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Speaker 1: looking for the public's help and finding out the name

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Speaker 1: of this child. At this little boy who deserves answers,

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Speaker 1: He deserves our help. Sergeant Carrie Holes said. Saturday night,

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Speaker 1: a mushroom hunter in the woods in rural Washington County

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Speaker 1: discovered the body of a young boy. He noticed something

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Speaker 1: and went to investigate, and that's what he found so

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Speaker 1: very disturbing, very shocking, very traumatic event, very sad event,

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Speaker 1: not just for the person who located it, but the

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Speaker 1: officers and are involved also. Holes said the boy is

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Speaker 1: likely between five and eight years old. He's about four

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Speaker 1: feet tall, with a slim build and short haircut. Investigators

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Speaker 1: believe the boy died within the last week. State police

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Speaker 1: say they're not releasing details about where the boy was

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Speaker 1: found or what he was wearing to protect their investigation.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much it's protecting the investigation, but okay.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Alan Blockey joining US clinical forensic psychologist, joining us

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Speaker 1: out of Birmingham, specializing in criminal and child cases. He

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Speaker 1: is professor, University Alabama, Birmingham. Doctor Blockee, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us now. Karen L. Smith was describing a

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Speaker 1: potential emotional attachment the boy by the person who left

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Speaker 1: the body there. The only reason I'm remotely interested in

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Speaker 1: emotional attachments to this child that was so horribly abandoned

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Speaker 1: is can it be included to tell me who did this?

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Speaker 1: But I'm wondering, Doctor Blockey, who would leave their child

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Speaker 1: like that? Again? Let me harken back to top mom

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Speaker 1: Casey Anthony and one of her many and varied defenses

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Speaker 1: was that little Kelly died in a swimming pool unattended,

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Speaker 1: and that her grandfather, George Anthony, fished her out. And then,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to calling nine one one, this former cop

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Speaker 1: just decided that he would put in a trash bag

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Speaker 1: and throw here in the woods. Okay, that didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: George Anthony did not do that. If this child had died, naturally,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't the guardian the parent call nine one one. Why

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Speaker 1: would you your child in a suitcase and leave it

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Speaker 1: in the woods unless there was a nefarious aspect to

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Speaker 1: the death. Well, I mean, you're right, it certainly sounds

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Speaker 1: like it's a nefarious kind of thing. Of course, what

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Speaker 1: this child Donald died from is going to be critical.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could say the parents panicked. I mean,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's the best spend you can put on. At best,

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Speaker 1: they panicked, But it certainly makes no sense. It's certainly

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Speaker 1: throwing out the trash. Oh gosh, when you said that,

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Speaker 1: it just hurt me. And you're right. To them, it

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Speaker 1: was like throwing out the trash. I'm going to follow

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Speaker 1: up on what doctor Alan Black he just told us,

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Speaker 1: But speaking c o d take a listen to Demi

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Speaker 1: Johnson WISHTV. State police say the young child was around

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Speaker 1: five years old based on a dental examination. Hole says, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the boy's autopsy did not give police the clarity they

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Speaker 1: were hoping for, but it does tell them the boy

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Speaker 1: had been in someone's recent care. The autopsy did confirmed

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about a death probably within the past week. Now.

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Speaker 1: We're not talking about skeletal remains or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, the fact that the autopsy doesn't reveal any

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Speaker 1: cause of death, and the fact that it's only you know,

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Speaker 1: days old since that horrific event occurred says a lot.

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Speaker 1: You know, as far as what we found. Obviously somebody

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Speaker 1: cared for him. That whoever that is isn't coming forward

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason. There's more than one reason that could be.

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Speaker 1: State police tell me they've receiemed about five hundred calls

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Speaker 1: on the case, but they want to remind people to

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Speaker 1: not call them about children already listed as missing around

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Speaker 1: the country. They're already investigating those cases. To doctor Michelle

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Speaker 1: Dupre joining us, we typically hear about an identification made

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Speaker 1: through DNA or fingerprints on children. You don't have fingerprints.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why they still do footprints at the

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Speaker 1: hospital as opposed to fingerprints, but they do so there's

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Speaker 1: no way to track the child through fingerprints. Here we

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Speaker 1: hear a dental exam. Now, while it's not identifying who

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Speaker 1: the child is, what's the point of the dental exam? Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: we'll do a dental exam so that if and when

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Speaker 1: a suspected childless, someone might suspay that this child is,

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Speaker 1: then we can compare general records with that person. But

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Speaker 1: without a comparison, the dental exam is really useless. We're

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Speaker 1: hoping to gain a comparison with some child found or

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Speaker 1: reporting missing in the future. Doctor du print, Why don't

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Speaker 1: hospitals do fingerprints as opposed to a footprint? Nancy, I

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Speaker 1: do not know. I think that's an excellent thing to do,

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Speaker 1: as well as do DNA. I think they should do

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Speaker 1: DNA and fingerprints. Now, fingerprints never changed during our home lifetime,

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Speaker 1: and no two fingerprints are the same exactly. So if

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Speaker 1: you have an adult print, if you find an adult,

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Speaker 1: can the adult fingerprint be matched to a child fingerprint? Oftentimes,

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Speaker 1: of course it's going to be larger, But there are

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Speaker 1: certain distinguishing characteristics we call them points that very well,

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Speaker 1: would be in the child finger print as well as

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Speaker 1: in the adult fingerprints. You know, doctor Duprie, let me

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Speaker 1: ask you this as well. We just heard from police

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Speaker 1: sources that the child had only been in the suitcase

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Speaker 1: for a few days. How can you tell that, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: We can tell that by the state of the body,

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Speaker 1: the amount of decomposition or not, the way that that

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Speaker 1: body decomposes in that type of atmosphere, because it was

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Speaker 1: left outside, because it was in a suitcase, because it

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Speaker 1: is warm weather, decomposition is going to happen faster. So

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Speaker 1: we take all of those things into account when we

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Speaker 1: determine the time of death. Joining me, Max Lewis, reporter

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Speaker 1: of Fox fifty nine out of Indianapolis. Max, again, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. You heard doctor Michelle Duprie

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Speaker 1: respond to my question by mentioning the weather. What is

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Speaker 1: the weather in that area at this time of the year.

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Speaker 1: It still would have probably been cool. I would say

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Speaker 1: the average high in a day would be fifty degrees,

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Speaker 1: maybe into the low sixties, and overnight it could you

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Speaker 1: get down into the high thirties and possibly into even

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Speaker 1: the freezing temperatures. We might have been a little bit

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Speaker 1: out of freezing range at that point. But I think

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Speaker 1: that could you know, affect things. I'll let the experts

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Speaker 1: speak to that as far as temperature wise, right right,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Dupray? Does that support or distract from your theory? Okay?

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Speaker 1: It actually supports it because the body would have been

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Speaker 1: in a closed container, which means it's probably going to

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Speaker 1: be protected somewhat from the environment, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: it doesn't get down too terribly low is still going

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Speaker 1: to make that sort of a warm weather environment. So yes,

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Speaker 1: it's it's still accurate. You know. Mix lewis joining me

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Speaker 1: from Fox fifty nine Indian Apples. So I'm very surprised

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Speaker 1: that the police are not releasing the outfit the little

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Speaker 1: boy was wearing. And I'll tell you why, because when

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Speaker 1: the twins were this age, I had special T shirts

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Speaker 1: for them, a little out matching out fitz Lucy at

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Speaker 1: that time still always wore a bow before she broke

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Speaker 1: my heart and quit wearing those I always had. John

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Speaker 1: David was obsessed with dinosaurs and t Hue trains. A

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Speaker 1: lot of his and cars, a lot of his clothing

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Speaker 1: had that emblazoned on the front. Any idea why they're

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Speaker 1: keeping that a secret, Max Lewis, So what they've told

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Speaker 1: us is that they are keeping the boys clothes, they're

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Speaker 1: keeping the book, not releasing the voice close because they

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Speaker 1: don't want to disrupt or compromise the integrity of the investigation.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm not a police officer. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why police do what they do. But like

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Speaker 1: you said, it seems like that would be really helpful

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Speaker 1: in identifying this boy. But I'll leave it to them

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Speaker 1: to decide. You're right, Max Lewis, Karen Smith, there are

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Speaker 1: reasons sometimes at police withhold peculiar facts in a case

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Speaker 1: that only the killer would know. So when they catch

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Speaker 1: the killer, if and when he or she gives a statement,

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Speaker 1: you match it up to what has been with held

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Speaker 1: from the public to see if it's really the killer

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Speaker 1: or if it's just a nut making a false confession. However,

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Speaker 1: what we need to identify this child, this little boy,

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Speaker 1: there's just like put in a suitcase and like I said,

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Speaker 1: left like an old pair of pajamas out in a

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Speaker 1: suitcase right in the woods. I don't see how this

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Speaker 1: is really helping them to withhold that evidence. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm on the fence with it and I think the

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Speaker 1: reason that they're doing it is they don't want an

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Speaker 1: influx of false leads taking the investigators off the track.

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Speaker 1: But if the public doesn't know what kind of clothes

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Speaker 1: this child was wearing, it makes it difficult for the

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Speaker 1: public to help. So it's kind of a catch. Twenty

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Speaker 1: two Nancy, a little boy just five years old, left

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Speaker 1: dead in a suitcase out in the middle of the woods,

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Speaker 1: halfway between Indianapolis and Louisville by a mushroom hunter that

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Speaker 1: seemingly and I'll go out on a limb, is not involved.

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Speaker 1: He's actually a good samaritan that calls and the discovery.

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Speaker 1: When I heard his voice describing what he found, I

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Speaker 1: thought immediately he was not involved. So what do we know?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen now to Tom Lalley, whas eleven, a

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Speaker 1: boy found dead in southern Indiana, remains nameless. His story

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Speaker 1: and the suit case he was found in have gained

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Speaker 1: national attention, hundreds of tips submitted, and still no answers

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Speaker 1: except for one. We now know how the boy died.

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Speaker 1: At this time, there's no evidence that leads investigators to

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Speaker 1: believe that he was alive when he went into the

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Speaker 1: suit case. Sergeant Carrie Hooles says investigators got the autopsy

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Speaker 1: and toxicology reports on May twentieth. Seven days later, they

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Speaker 1: share this unnamed boy died from an electrolyte imbalance, most

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Speaker 1: likely due to gastro enteritis, which in common Layman's term

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Speaker 1: would be vomiting and diarrhea, and that resulted in dehydration

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Speaker 1: fetal dehydration, and he says the toxicology rapport found nothing significant.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to you, doctor Michelle Dupree, translate please, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Gastro enter iris. Enteritis is a viral infection, mostly commonly

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Speaker 1: caused stomach flude. And the problem with this is that

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Speaker 1: it does cause vomiting and diarrhea. And the problem with

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Speaker 1: that is that you use up electrolytes, you get rid

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Speaker 1: of those. And electrolytes are very narrowly balanced in our system.

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Speaker 1: They control things like even our heart rate, our blood pressure.

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Speaker 1: So when those are depleted from nausea and vomiting and diarrhea,

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Speaker 1: then we may go into a cardiacorythea, we may become dehydrated,

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Speaker 1: and then that causes that cardiacorythm okay, let's follow this through.

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Speaker 1: Katherine Mars joining me. Special Victims liaison for the State

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Speaker 1: Attorney's Office there in Charles County. Catherine, again, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. So let's go with what we know.

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Speaker 1: The cod is mass of vomiting and diarrhea, gastro oritis.

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Speaker 1: What does that tell you about who left this boy

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Speaker 1: his body folded up in a suitcase? It says welcome

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Speaker 1: to the fabulous Las Vegas on the front of it. Well,

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Speaker 1: it tells me that I need to start looking at

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Speaker 1: neglect of the child, because if the child was this ill,

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Speaker 1: that the child died from the electrolyte deficiency or dehydration,

427
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: that means he wasn't getting proper care while he wasn't

428
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: while he was sick, or he wasn't taken to a doctor,

429
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: he wasn't being given fluids by his caregivers. So that

430
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: tells me that there is an outside component to his

431
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: death that I need to look at as well. It

432
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: also tells me, Katherine Morris, that this may have been

433
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: someone that was afraid that the boy died on their

434
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 1: watch and that they would go to jail. Now, who

435
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: would that be? A mom or dad that had had

436
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: trouble with defacts from my family Shoulder's services before some

437
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: that they have had a criminal history or just a

438
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: neglectful parent that feels they'd be the one that got

439
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: in trouble. Of course they would be. They let this

440
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: boy die. A five year old little boy. You couldn't

441
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: have been any guitar than what Jackie three feet or so?

442
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: Five years old. Now, my question, Max lewis the Fox

443
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 1: fifty nine. Have police drawn and released a composite sketch

444
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: of the boy? No, Nancy, they haven't. That's another thing

445
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: that people have been asking about. You know, at least

446
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: give us something more, because clearly what they've released so

447
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: far is not working. It's not helped identify this boy.

448
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: And they're still basically went back at the drawing board.

449
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: And so that's a lot of what a lot of

450
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: people are asking. But they haven't done it. They again

451
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: are citing compromising the investigation. I'll leave that to the

452
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: expert to decide whether or not that is true or not,

453
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: but we'll see. Okay, that's total bs. Look, I know,

454
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: Max Lewis, it's not your message. You're just the messenger.

455
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: But step one is identifying the boy. We need a

456
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: composite sketch. Take a listen to our cut twelve this

457
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: is todmaleh a s. As this search continues, we know

458
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: police are able to release a composite or photo of

459
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: the boy and have chosen not to the description of

460
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: this boy could apply to so many people. Why not

461
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: release a rendering or what kind of closed the child

462
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: was wear? Right? And that's been discussed. But again, the

463
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: main thing is if somebody knows of a child who

464
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: fits the description that's missing, they need to give the call.

465
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: Having a picture shouldn't make somebody all of a sudden recall,

466
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: oh that child if they know a child who's missing.

467
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: But what if they wouldn't know the child is missing,

468
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: but they could recognize the child. Well. Again, again there's

469
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: many different reasons. But sometimes you know, diagrams, drawings, Sometimes

470
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: those renderings can lead to misconceptions as well. So it

471
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: can open up at Pandora's box of people saying, well,

472
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: I thought this child when possibly not so at this

473
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: time they fill us in the best interests of the

474
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: case not to do that. Two. Karen L. Smith joining me,

475
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: forensics expert, joining side of LA. This isn't exactly right.

476
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: A composite, as we are calling it, is typically made

477
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: when you can't get a full facial Okay, Here, like

478
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: a photograph, you make it based on an or several eyewitnesses.

479
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: Here we have the boy. His body is still intact.

480
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: It's not like a drawing. It's going to be that

481
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: far off from the child. In fact, they may have

482
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: been able to actually take a picture of the child

483
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: and enhance it to make it look as if it

484
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: were in life. I don't get how they're saying, Oh,

485
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: a composite would open up a Pandora's box of false leads.

486
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: Hey they need something. Yeah, I don't under stand that

487
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: at all. A composite sketch or a composite drawing can

488
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: lead to people. You know. Yes, you may not say

489
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: yes I know this missing boy, but you may say,

490
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, I saw this little boy with so and so.

491
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: It looks familiar to me. None of that makes sense.

492
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: And you know the clothing I said I was on

493
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: the fence. The composite drawing. I don't understand that at all.

494
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: M Okay, guys, take a listen now to our friend

495
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: Katrina Nikkel at w d RB, just off a rural

496
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: road in Washington County. One answer can be added to

497
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: a long list of questions that remain in the cause

498
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: of death of the young male as electrolyte imbalance. According

499
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: to IP. The autopsy results say vomiting and diarrhea likely

500
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: resulted in severe dehydration. It's a very odd tragic case.

501
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: Medical director for Norton Children's Hospital, Mark McDonald explains that

502
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: a death related to electrolyte imbalance leads to organ slowly

503
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: shutting down. You don't really know what's going on. You don't,

504
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: you're delirious, and you eventually become unconscious and to die

505
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: from something likes of your dehydration is uncommon for a

506
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: young child, who police believe is a five year old

507
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: boy and can take days. The only circumstance I would

508
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: think that a younger child could become so dehydrated they

509
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: passed away would be if they were really by themselves,

510
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: you know, if they were left alone, it didn't have

511
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: the means to help themselves or have someone around to

512
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: help them. That is exactly what you were saying, Katherine

513
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: Marsh Catherine, Special Victims Liaison. This child was horribly neglected

514
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: and you just heard the cop hit the nail on

515
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: the head. The child was alone and died as one

516
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: organ after the next shut down. That's correct. And it's

517
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: the heartbreaking thing, especially when you heard him say this

518
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: kind of death would have taken days. So we had

519
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: a child who suffered for days, and then after that

520
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: suffering was pulled it up, put in a suitcase and

521
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: disposed on the side of the road. Crime Stories with

522
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, doctor Michelle Dupray joining me. What would this

523
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: child have gone through as each organ shut down, massive

524
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: diarrhea so weak you probably couldn't even get up and

525
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom, vomiting all alone, Nancy. He would

526
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: have obviously been very tired, probably had a fever, very

527
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: sore muscles, abdominal pain again, the diarrhea, dehydration, bloody stools.

528
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: He would have basically become unconscious and then succumbed to death. Guys,

529
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: I'm looking in his suitcase, and if you look at

530
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: it very carefully, it's abundantly clear this is not something

531
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: that was just bought for this purpose. I've been examining

532
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: it very closely. The wheels are old and worn out,

533
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: that the suitcase therefore is old and worn out. But

534
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: isn't it true? Karen Smith Forensi's expert that the brand

535
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: of suitcase can be identified and it can be figured

536
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: out where it was sold. Isn't that true? Yes, it

537
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: is absolutely. You can find out the manufacturers and you

538
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: can find out the stores where it is sold. Now

539
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: that's kind of like finding a needle in a haystack,

540
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: but it is a lead that needs to be followed,

541
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: and Nancy, I'd just like to say this, finding the

542
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: identity of this boy is paramount. I suggest taking the

543
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: victim's DNA from his autosity and putting it into public

544
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: genealogical and ancestral DNA databases to see if any distant

545
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: relatives have submitted their DNA to those public records. Try

546
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: to find a partial matching work back from there. As

547
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: little boys DNA is not going to be in CODEUS,

548
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: the Combined DNA index system that's used for criminal cases,

549
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: but there may be a lead in those ancestral databases.

550
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: It'll take time, but it's worth a shot. We have

551
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: to find out his identity. It's called genetic genealogy. And

552
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: while you people will often say, well don't you have

553
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: a fingerprint or don't you have DNA from the victim, Well, yes,

554
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: that's not that hard to get. But then the question

555
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: is who you're going to match it too. Example, say

556
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: in a rape case they're semen. You can get the

557
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: DNA from the semen, but you've got to figure out

558
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: whose is it, and that is where databases, DNA databases

559
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: come into play. If the perp as a criminal history

560
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: and has given his or her DNA or their fingerprints,

561
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: then you can match up. Otherwise the millions and millions

562
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: of people that could be the part. You have to

563
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: have something to match it too. So in this case,

564
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: you would take the child's DNA and do an ancestral

565
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: DNA match genetic genealogy, and sometimes you have to go

566
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: way back, say the eighteen hundreds, and you get a

567
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: hit to somebody's great great great great great grandfather. Then

568
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: you follow it down, follow it down all the way

569
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: down to the here and now the present. Who are

570
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: the relatives here and now who were in the area

571
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: who would have had a child this age. That's how

572
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: you do it. Now there's the other factor. What if

573
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: this child was in foster care and was not with

574
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: his genetic parents. Well, guess what, you can still find

575
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: the parents and then find who had the child in

576
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: foster care. I want to go back to doctor Alan Blockkey.

577
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: Clinical forensic psychologists joining us out of Birmingham Doctor Block Giggin,

578
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I want to analyze

579
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: not only he would put a child like top mom

580
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: casey Anthony did put a child in a plastic bag

581
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: and throw it in the woods, but who similarly would

582
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: put their child's dead body in this suitcase and leave

583
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: it in the woods. And who would stand by and

584
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: let their child vomit and have diarrhea to the point

585
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: the child dies as the organs shut down. A child

586
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: in intense pain. You know, a profoundly neglectful parent, obviously

587
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 1: you know, and why they're neglectful. There can be many reasons,

588
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: substance abuse, mental illness, etc. Etc. But the profoundness is

589
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 1: so striking here. And then again, like I said earlier,

590
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: they put the boy in a suitcase and put it rash.

591
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: The mindset of whoever did this is cold and calculated

592
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: and cruel a five year old little boy. Think of

593
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: your child at that young age. Take a listen to

594
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: our Frank Katrina Nickel at the b DRM ISP does

595
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: believe the boy was already dead when put in the suitcase,

596
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: and previously said the boy was likely found within about

597
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: a week from dying. He appeared to be at least

598
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: somewhat cared for, so that's again not what you expect.

599
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: Autopsy results also revealed the boy was an average height

600
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 1: and wait for a five year old, and a toxicology

601
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: report came back negative. As far as just who this

602
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: boy is, where he's from, who left him in the suitcase,

603
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: it's all a mystery of the documented children that are

604
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: missing on the Missing Children's list across the country. At

605
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: this point, there's no match on any child that's list

606
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: as missing. ISP will not release a rendering or drawing

607
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: of the boy at this time. Sometimes those renderings can

608
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: lead to misconceptions as well. They fill us in the

609
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: best interests of the case not to do that, police said.

610
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: Detectives on the case are utilizing any information they have

611
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: with all available technology. You know, we've had many cases

612
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: when we throw this out to Katherine Marsh, many cases

613
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: where we have tried to identify a child. Sometimes these

614
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: cases go cold and it's decades later that the child

615
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: is identified and there's no way to bring the killer

616
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: to justice. What do you advise, Catherine, so this case

617
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: doesn't go cold. I think I'd start with what so

618
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: many people on this panel have said, I think it's

619
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: imperative to get the composite sketch or the picture of

620
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: this young victim out there. I think we need to

621
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: know what he looks like, because then we can start

622
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: moving forward with identifying him and building the blocks of

623
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: the last moments of his life or the last time

624
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: somebody saw him. What we know is in six weeks,

625
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: nobody's reported a child missing to the police that fit

626
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: his description. So it's not going to come from the caregivers.

627
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: It needs to come from people in the community. We

628
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: need to get what he looks like out you know.

629
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. Remember Karen Smith the House of Horrors

630
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: in California, that Turpin parents seems treated their children so horribly.

631
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: They had many children. Not one neighbor reported never seeing

632
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: the children. Nobody said a thing, So I doubt very

633
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: seriously that neighbors or anybody in the community is going

634
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: to come forward. What's our best chance at this point?

635
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: I have two suggestions. One would be to consider using

636
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: what's called wet vacuum technology, like an m VAC. These

637
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: can extract really minute samples of DNA that might not

638
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: be recoverable by standard methods like SWA or taping. These

639
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: wet vacuums spray a buffer onto the substrate and then

640
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 1: pull everything out into a bottle. This can find other

641
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: sources of DNA that are not the victims, so that

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00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: may be a lead another one, and this is a

643
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: little bit of a wide net. But there may be

644
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: spores or pollen or other fauna present on his clothes

645
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: or in that suitcase that are foreign to the area

646
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: where he was found. That can give investigators an area

647
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: of focus, so they might want to contact a forenic

648
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: botanist to consult on microscopic analysis of that clothing to

649
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: see if there's any unusual plant material from a specific

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00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: state or region or even other country. Nancy, we don't

651
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: know where this little boy is from. He may not

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00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: be from the United States, which may be why the

653
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: person who left him there didn't consult a doctor. I'm

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00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: not giving an excuse. It's disgusting, but you know, I'm

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00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: just going to go out on a limb and say

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00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: he was from the US. Okay, someone that lived in

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00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: or had visited Vegas, someone that was familiar with this

658
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: area and new to dump the body there. I would

659
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: also be interested in the clothing where it came from

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00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: what store, what mall in this country to give me

661
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: an idea of where the purp lives as well as

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00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: did the boy have on shoes? Because on those shoes

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00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: would be a wealth of forensic evidence. Agreed tipline eight

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Speaker 1: one two two four, eight four three seven four or

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00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: toll free eight hundred eight seven two sixty seven forty three.

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00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: We wait as justice and falls Nancy Grace Crimes Story,

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00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,