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Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the con

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Speaker 1: The Unreal Housewife episode eight, a bonus episode. She's running

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Speaker 1: that joint. In this episode, I talked to housewives connoisseur

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Speaker 1: Kate Casey, host of the podcast Reality Life with Kate Casey,

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Speaker 1: and veteran Real Housewives producer Carlos King, host of the

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Speaker 1: Reality with the King podcast. We fuss and discuss all

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Speaker 1: the craziness Genshaw is up to now in prison and

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Speaker 1: the fact that she's not the only housewife pretending to

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Speaker 1: be wealthier than she is. And Kate and Carlos also

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Speaker 1: give me their best predictions on what happens to Genshaw

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Speaker 1: after prison. Enjoy. Carlos King is our first time meeting.

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Speaker 1: I'm so impressed with you. You produced on Real Housewives

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Speaker 1: New Jersey and Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that is my protein shape because I need to

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Speaker 2: make sure that I am fueled to do the job.

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Speaker 1: Yes, all right, What was it like producing on Real

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Speaker 1: Housewives New Jersey, Real Housewives Atlanta?

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Speaker 3: You know, producing both of those shows.

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Speaker 2: Looking back on it, it was very, very very fun,

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Speaker 2: but also very challenging. But when you're a new producer,

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Speaker 2: you just are happy you have a gig, and for me,

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Speaker 2: The Real Housewives of Atlanta was my first foray into

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Speaker 2: reality television. So I'm just happy to have a job

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Speaker 2: in reality TV. And then my first time on set,

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Speaker 2: the producer said to me, you're going to be assigned

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Speaker 2: to Nini Leaks and the rest is history in terms

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Speaker 2: of our relationship and our friendship. Jersey was the same thing.

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Speaker 2: They said, You're assigned Teresa judaizing Danielle style. I'm like, okay, so,

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Speaker 2: but it goes to show you that I was the

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Speaker 2: person who had to handle strong, opinionated women and it

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Speaker 2: allowed me to stretch my muscle in telling women's stories

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Speaker 2: and to have the career that I have today.

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Speaker 4: And what were the Real Housewives like in your experience?

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Speaker 4: How real were they?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Very real? You have to think about it.

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Speaker 2: The Real Housewives of Atlanta debuted in October of two

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Speaker 2: thousand and eight. At that time, the only big reality

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Speaker 2: shows were The Hills and Laguna Beach, which a lot

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Speaker 2: of people at the time even now would say it

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Speaker 2: was soft scripting.

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Speaker 3: Is this show real?

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Speaker 2: The Real Housewives brand from the inception has always been

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Speaker 2: to follow the reality and to showcase these.

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Speaker 3: Women in their real form. These women did not have any.

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Speaker 4: Sort of.

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Speaker 2: Person to idalyze to say I want to be that person.

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Speaker 2: They truly were being authentic. So what you saw was

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Speaker 2: women who were truly being themselves. Teresa, I fig you

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Speaker 2: can see thirteen years later Teresa still Teresa, and Niemi

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Speaker 2: is still MEMI very big, very bold, very loud, very opinionated.

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Speaker 2: So it was the greatest example of how reality show

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Speaker 2: works in the sense of you always have to cast

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Speaker 2: women who are able to go through their personal story,

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Speaker 2: and these women went there and.

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Speaker 1: I'll ask each of you this, what's your take on

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Speaker 1: overall on jen Shaw.

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Speaker 5: Jenshaw to me personified a savvy viewer who studied every

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Speaker 5: frame of Real Housewives and plotted an opportunity for them

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Speaker 5: to become a housewife. I think the minute someone got

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Speaker 5: word that the Real Housewives was looking at Salt Lake

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Speaker 5: City or her antennas went up and she was like,

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Speaker 5: I'm bringing my a game. I think she's like the

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Speaker 5: perfect housewife in terms of somebody who really believes, well,

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Speaker 5: where have the cameras been my whole life? Like, of

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Speaker 5: course you're going to fill me. Even though they're not

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Speaker 5: a celebrity. They may not have built like an incredible business.

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Speaker 5: There's not something that's spectacular in terms of their life

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Speaker 5: success or career success. They still believe. Well, of course

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Speaker 5: cameras would follow me, I'm such an incredible person. She

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Speaker 5: kind of is that personality for me. So when you

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Speaker 5: started to watch her on camera, you thought, I think

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Speaker 5: she's overdoing it. And sometimes when you watch it like

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Speaker 5: a movie, you think someone's overacting. She was almost overdoing

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Speaker 5: it in terms of a reality star. The first time

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Speaker 5: I knew she was completely bombastic was when I realized

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Speaker 5: she was living in a rental home and she had

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Speaker 5: nailed shelving units into the wall. I thought, you're a

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Speaker 5: monster who rents a house and nails shelving into the walls,

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Speaker 5: somebody who believes they don't need to live by other

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Speaker 5: people's rules.

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Speaker 1: And was that publicized that she was renting, because I

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Speaker 1: thought she was trying to portray as if she owns

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Speaker 1: the place.

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Speaker 5: Actually, during the first season, it was a real housewife

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Speaker 5: of Dallas on their podcast that noted, well, I have

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Speaker 5: a friend who owns the house that Genshaw is renting

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Speaker 5: right outside of Salt Lake City. And then everybody it

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Speaker 5: spread like wildfire. And once that happens in the Real

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Speaker 5: Housewives ecosystem. Then the vultures come out and they will

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Speaker 5: pick apart every detail of your life. And if you

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Speaker 5: are presenting yourself as someone who's wealthy and you are not,

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Speaker 5: God bless you because people don't take that to that lightly.

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Speaker 2: Carlos, your take on Genshaw, I agree with everything Kate

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Speaker 2: just said. I will say this, She's fascinating, She's a star.

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Speaker 2: Kate's right. There's a handful of women who were born

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Speaker 2: to be on television, and Genshaw was born to be

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Speaker 2: on TV. Not necessarily prison in my mind at the time,

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Speaker 2: but she was born to be on television. She is

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Speaker 2: an attractive woman with the big personality. She has the

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Speaker 2: type of bravado and arrogance that makes a great housewife.

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Speaker 2: But she also had this sort of lifestyle that you

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Speaker 2: thought was real at the time. And I think Jenshaw

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Speaker 2: represents the new age of reality stars. Because Jonathan, you

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Speaker 2: asked me earlier, how was Nini and Teresa where they

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Speaker 2: rail in two thousand and eight. Yes, But in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty beyond, the newer housewife started to become a caricature

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Speaker 2: of the icons Jenshaw wanted to be the Teresa Judais

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Speaker 2: of Salt Lake City, and we did not know she

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Speaker 2: would go that far as to being somebody who also

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Speaker 2: was going to go to a timeout or camp, as

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Speaker 2: Teresa calls it.

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Speaker 3: So we didn't know to that degree she was, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, mocking her idol, but Jenshaw had to fake it

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Speaker 2: in order to make it dot dot dot on a

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Speaker 2: housewives show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting because in a sense, you know,

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Speaker 1: while she's running these telemarketing scams, she's simultaneously in a

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Speaker 1: way scamming Bravo because she was not anything she appeared

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Speaker 1: to be. She didn't own the house, she leased the cars,

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Speaker 1: the Fendi's, the Louis Vton's. Fake fake, fake, like she

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Speaker 1: was a fake real housewife pretending to be really wealthy.

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Speaker 1: Not to say that she wasn't wealthy, but she certainly

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Speaker 1: wasn't as wealthy as she portrayed, otherwise she would own

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Speaker 1: the homes. But our legal analyst who we interviewed throughout

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Speaker 1: the podcast, the amazing Emily D. Baker, said it's by

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Speaker 1: design almost that she doesn't own a home or own

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Speaker 1: anything because she knows they're coming for her one day,

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Speaker 1: and she knows if you own a home. You're saving

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Speaker 1: a ton of money. Within the United States, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: take that. The Feds are gonna take that and give

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Speaker 1: it to the victims as restitution. So we fear maybe

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Speaker 1: she has all this stuff offshore in Kosovo somewhere because

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Speaker 1: she doesn't own much.

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Speaker 5: I have to say, I think you're incorrect in saying

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Speaker 5: that that she was swindling the network making them believe

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Speaker 5: she's wealthy. That's what makes her a great star, is

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Speaker 5: that they know she's not wealthy, but she's presenting herself.

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Speaker 5: That makes an interesting character. If you go to a

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Speaker 5: dinner party and you see someone dripping in luxury, and

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Speaker 5: then you start talking to them and you find out

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Speaker 5: that they work in telemarketing, you start to go, well,

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Speaker 5: that doesn't really add up. That makes someone fascinating because

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Speaker 5: the longer they're on television, the more the layers get

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Speaker 5: peeled back of the onion, and that makes a great story.

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Speaker 5: So it's not actually true that the network is somehow

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Speaker 5: scammed by all of these women. They know exactly who

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Speaker 5: they are and that is why they are chosen to

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Speaker 5: be on the show.

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Speaker 4: They wanted it.

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Speaker 2: Let's be very clear, Jennis Shaw is not the only

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Speaker 2: housewife who is faking it today. If I had to

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Speaker 2: do a I would say more than fifty percent of

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Speaker 2: current housewives are leasing cars. It's the name of the game.

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Speaker 2: Because I create shows. I produce shows. Right when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the Real Housewives brand, it's affluent. It's a

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Speaker 2: certain lifestyle. You can't live in a middle class neighborhood right,

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Speaker 2: drive a Nissan Ultima, be a school teacher who takes

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Speaker 2: out the trash themselves every Thursday morning and become a housewives.

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Speaker 4: You just can't. You just can't.

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Speaker 2: You could be on Naja de Fiance, you can be

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Speaker 2: married at first sight, but you cannot be a real housewife.

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Speaker 2: A real housewive has a certain order of affluence that

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Speaker 2: you need. And these women who are dying or attention

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Speaker 2: and relevance and fame, they will become broke at bankrupt

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Speaker 2: in order to have fifteen men as a bank.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea because so before this season of

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Speaker 1: Queen of the Khan on Jenshaw, I've never watched an

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Speaker 1: episode of Housewives only because I'm a reality producer and

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Speaker 1: all the shows I work on a couple similar types

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Speaker 1: of shows, and they were very heavily staged and we

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Speaker 1: do multiple takes and we'd be like, hey, next time,

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Speaker 1: when you shout at her, look that way. You know,

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Speaker 1: Take two, take three. So I always thought as a

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Speaker 1: Real Housewives was one of those, but you're telling me

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Speaker 1: it's more real than that.

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Speaker 5: The beauty of housewives is that you take women who

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Speaker 5: perceive themselves as very glamorous, royalty adjacent and you put

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Speaker 5: them in a room together. You don't actually have to

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Speaker 5: do that much because all of them have such big

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Speaker 5: personalities and they're so complicated that the intersection of those

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Speaker 5: women creates the most interesting conversations. That's why Real Housewives

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Speaker 5: is so beloved by reality TV viewers, because it's a

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Speaker 5: window into a world that not many people know, a

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Speaker 5: world of affluence, and whether it's real or it's faked,

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Speaker 5: it's a window into a world that very few people

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Speaker 5: get access to.

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Speaker 1: And from what the both of you were telling me,

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Speaker 1: which is news to me, the majority of these women.

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Speaker 1: It kind of attracts scammers to a certain well.

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Speaker 5: But it's also affluent areas bring con artists. It's a

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Speaker 5: perfect stage to set for con artists because everyone seems

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Speaker 5: to be wealthy. It's like it's a level playing field.

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Speaker 5: And no one really asks in depth questions. It's a

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Speaker 5: very surface level place. So no one's asking you, well,

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Speaker 5: where did you go to school? And what was your

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Speaker 5: first job? And did that company go public? And who

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Speaker 5: are the directors of those companies? It's questions like do

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Speaker 5: you have a boat? Do you? Are you a member

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Speaker 5: of the Bay Club. So no one actually asks anything,

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Speaker 5: so very rarely will people's bullshit story be unraveled.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of like imagine Birding Madoff's wife. Do you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: On paper, a quintessential housewife, archetype married to this affluent man,

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Speaker 2: super rich, super wealthy, has a boat, has a private plane.

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Speaker 2: If that person on paper came across your desk and

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Speaker 2: you were casting them, she would be cast just based

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Speaker 2: on what's happening on paper. But to Kate's point, you

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Speaker 2: don't dig deep in terms of asking the preblic questions

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Speaker 2: as if you were part of the FBI. But look,

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Speaker 2: that's not our job. You know, that's not our job.

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Speaker 2: And that's the reason why you can't blame networks production

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Speaker 2: companies producers, because we're not asking you to show true

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Speaker 2: proofs of income of W two income text that dates

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Speaker 2: back to two years in order to be on the show,

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Speaker 2: because for us, it's all about do you fit the

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Speaker 2: Quintin Central standard for this particular program, and if you

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Speaker 2: have what it takes to showcase that on a zoom

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Speaker 2: call Ben Honey, you.

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Speaker 4: Have a job.

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Speaker 5: But I also think people, it's just the way it's human,

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Speaker 5: the way the humans operate. Rich people attract friends. So

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Speaker 5: if you're a horrible person but you have a lot

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Speaker 5: of things, people want to be your friend. Now, if

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Speaker 5: you live in a shack and you have a degree,

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Speaker 5: and you're interesting and you like to talk about political theory,

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Speaker 5: probably don't have many friends in an affluent area. But

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Speaker 5: if you're horrible and you have like a Lamborghini and

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Speaker 5: you have a house in Hawaii and you give parties

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Speaker 5: where you have a to go bag, you're gonna have

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Speaker 5: a lot of friends.

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Speaker 4: That is that is very true.

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Speaker 1: Well put on during the entire criminal proceeding against Jenshaw,

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Speaker 1: she was, you know, proclaiming her innocence to no end.

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Speaker 1: How did you both handle that? Did either of you

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Speaker 1: at any point think she was actually in acent? Did

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Speaker 1: you think she was guilty the whole time? What was

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Speaker 1: your process?

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Speaker 2: I always thought she was guilty. What I have learned

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Speaker 2: is when the FEDS do that sort of deep dive

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Speaker 2: of an investigation and they finally say, okay, you're about

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Speaker 2: to become arrested, it's because it took them years in

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Speaker 2: order to come to that conclusion and it's hard to

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Speaker 2: get out of. Like, they're not going to run the

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Speaker 2: risk of saying we got it wrong here. That's what

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Speaker 2: I was told. I'm not a lawyer, I don't pretend

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Speaker 2: to be one. Don't cast me at all. So that's

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Speaker 2: why I thought, like, Okay, it has to be true

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Speaker 2: that she's guilty of this, but I will take it

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Speaker 2: a step further. The one thing that annoyed me and

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Speaker 2: made me as a black person is when she tried

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Speaker 2: to make it about race, and she said, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I took personal offense to that, because we do

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Speaker 2: know that there's this there's this situation going on between

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Speaker 2: law enforcement and people of color.

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Speaker 3: It's real, it's true, it's been going on for years.

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Speaker 2: Don't take something that is actually affecting this culture and

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Speaker 2: apply it to your situation and to make it seem

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Speaker 2: like they got it wrong and you're being targeted because

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Speaker 2: you're a woman of color. That alone bothered me because

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Speaker 2: it's sort of like, just admit to it or guess what.

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Speaker 2: If you want to say you're innocent, that's fine, but

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Speaker 2: please don't make it about race, because there are people

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Speaker 2: of color who are dealing with stuff where we are

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Speaker 2: accuses of christ we did not commit.

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Speaker 1: So that part bothered me. I mean that bothered me too,

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Speaker 1: And I'm glad you brought that up. It was it,

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Speaker 1: you know, and we profiled it throughout the podcast several

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Speaker 1: times publicly she would say it's because I'm a woman

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Speaker 1: of color.

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Speaker 4: I'm being falsely prosecuted.

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Speaker 1: They were attacking me because I'm a woman of color,

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Speaker 1: and it made me sick because I knew that's not true.

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Speaker 4: And you bring up a brilliant point.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent of federal prosecutions end with a conviction,

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Speaker 1: so you are correct. By the time the Feds arrest you,

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Speaker 1: you are guilty. They know it, they can prove it.

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Speaker 1: They're confident. So that's interesting. You thought she was guilty

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Speaker 1: from the get Kate Casey, what about you?

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Speaker 5: I thought she was guilty too. I thought it was

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Speaker 5: absurd the way that she would berate other people for

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Speaker 5: asking any question that's usually like a red flag someone's

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Speaker 5: done something. Yes, I thought that, in particular the way

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Speaker 5: that she would manipulate the friendship of Heather Gay. Heather

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Speaker 5: clearly is someone who grew up in a Mormon church.

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Speaker 5: She felt abandoned by her church and therefore perhaps hangs

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Speaker 5: on to friends longer than she should. And I felt

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Speaker 5: like Jen weaponized that. And I hate seeing relationships like that.

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Speaker 5: So I don't like what she did to the people

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Speaker 5: in her life who dared to ask questions.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and that is a narcissist through and through.

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Speaker 1: When you ask them something, they're offended and turn it

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Speaker 1: back on you.

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Speaker 4: How dare you? Yeah? Wow?

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Speaker 1: For Do you think Genshaw is sorry, actually sorry for

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Speaker 1: what she did?

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Speaker 4: Or you think she's just sorry she got caught.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what quote recently attributed to her quote,

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Speaker 1: I'm committed to doing the work necessary to make my

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Speaker 1: victims whole and prove worthy of a second chance. I've

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Speaker 1: learned to focus and what I can and cannot control.

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Speaker 1: Do you think she's actually sorry?

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Speaker 5: No, I think she's sorry that she's missing time away

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Speaker 5: from her kids. I think she's sorry about that. I

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Speaker 5: think she's sorry she's missing time away from the television show.

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Speaker 5: But I think someone like Jenshaw spends an enormous amount

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Speaker 5: of time every day plotting what am I going to

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Speaker 5: do when I'm out of here? What can I pitch

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Speaker 5: to my agent? What networks are going to be interested

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Speaker 5: the way she even posted on her Instagram a story

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Speaker 5: about the woman that she came to Joe with Kashara,

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Speaker 5: It's all part of this ongoing story of like angst

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Speaker 5: and pain, and there's a total disregard for the elderly

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Speaker 5: victims that lost their fortunes, people who have had health

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Speaker 5: problems as the result of stress from losing all of

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Speaker 5: their money. When there's a total disregard for the people

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Speaker 5: that you've affected and it's all about you. No, I

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Speaker 5: don't think she cares at all.

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Speaker 4: Can you read that? Do you have that quote up

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Speaker 4: nearby that Instagram? Yeah? Read it. It's important to say.

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Speaker 5: It's a carousel, so they're actually like six slides on it.

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Speaker 5: But she says journal entry number two. Kashanna, whose nickname

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Speaker 5: is Special K, also surrendered with me yesterday and this

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Speaker 5: is from March tenth. We've kind of stuck together the

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Speaker 5: first full day as we both walked and shocked stunned

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Speaker 5: and scared, trying to figure out where we go from here.

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Speaker 5: I would also just like decide. Note I don't think

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Speaker 5: she wrote this. Today is Saturday. There is a six

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Speaker 5: am brown bag breakfast brought into the common area of

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Speaker 5: our unit. I was so tired and didn't wake up,

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Speaker 5: but special K got one for me. She is kind,

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Speaker 5: and there are not many kind people in this place.

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Speaker 5: It had one piece of wheat bread and apple, two

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Speaker 5: packets of jelly, and a packet of instant oatmeal. I

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Speaker 5: ate the piece of bread. A lady was offering instant

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Speaker 5: coffee in the common area, but I didn't have a mug.

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Speaker 5: I saved the apple an oatmeal packet in my locker

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Speaker 5: since I don't go to the commissary until next Tuesday.

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Speaker 5: If I get hungry, I can at least have something

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Speaker 5: to eat. First of all, somebody on her staff that

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Speaker 5: she still employs with whatever five cents she has in

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Speaker 5: her bank account, went on Canva to recreate a carousel

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Speaker 5: based on entries that she emailed or gave to coach,

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Speaker 5: you know, at a visit. And she's like continuing this

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Speaker 5: narrative like that she's a victim. I don't give a shit.

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Speaker 5: If you have one piece of wheat bread, how about

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Speaker 5: the people have four skittles in their bank accounts.

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Speaker 3: Because you screwed them over.

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Speaker 5: She relentless in the pursuit of making herself a victim

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Speaker 5: and a martyr, and it's unbelievably whack job. But you

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Speaker 5: know that's the reason she was cast because she is melodramatic,

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Speaker 5: she is bombastic, she is delusional, and she is manipulative.

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Speaker 5: And I think even in prison, she's still trying to

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Speaker 5: manipulate anyone who's willing to.

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Speaker 4: Listen, Carlos your tank.

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Speaker 3: Is she sorry, no, listen, I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: Because the thing is this, you have to have a

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Speaker 2: sense of humility when you are accused of a crime

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Speaker 2: that you did commit. So when you first start off

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Speaker 2: your statement saying I'm innocent, I'm being targeted racial profiling,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't sound like a woman who's STARp at what

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Speaker 2: she did, knowing she did it.

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Speaker 3: Then when she.

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Speaker 2: Played guilty, she apologized to the victims and said I

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Speaker 2: knew what I was doing. I was blah blah blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah. If she would have started off that statement

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Speaker 2: when she first got accused of it, then I would

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Speaker 2: have believed like, Okay, you feel sorry for what you did,

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Speaker 2: but I think you have to know the type of

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Speaker 2: personality she is, and listen, I'm not judging.

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Speaker 3: Her, because that's not my job.

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Speaker 2: I take her at face value in the sense of

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Speaker 2: who I see on the show and who I see interviews,

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Speaker 2: and whose behavior I witness, and I'm like, I don't

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Speaker 2: think there's anything about her based on what I've seen

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Speaker 2: that reeks of a woman who's sorry for anything she's

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Speaker 2: done outside of the crime. I think the way she

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Speaker 2: behaves is because she believes that she is the best

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Speaker 2: thing that happened to Salt Lake City, and she just

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Speaker 2: has that arrogant personality.

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Speaker 5: I remember I was interviewing one of the housewives and

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Speaker 5: the housewife kept saying, I'm so sorry I keep getting

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Speaker 5: a FaceTime from Jenshaw. I said, well, like, tell her

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Speaker 5: you're in an interview, and I was witnessed to how

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Speaker 5: captivated they all are to her. I don't know, Maybe

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Speaker 5: I should text her back like you're in the middle

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Speaker 5: of an interview, are you kidding me? Later, I had

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Speaker 5: a conversation with that same housewife and I said, how

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Speaker 5: can you be supportive of someone that does this? And

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Speaker 5: has obviously lied. And their response was, but she's so fun.

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Speaker 1: I mean that hits it on the head. The power

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Speaker 1: and the magic of every con artists. They're charismatic, they

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Speaker 1: suck you in, they get you like them, they get

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Speaker 1: you to love them, and that's the coercional control they exert.

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Speaker 1: Even in the face of accusations and evidence.

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Speaker 4: People support her. Still she's in jail and people support her.

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Speaker 2: But I find so fascinating. I think you and I

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Speaker 2: had this conversation Kate how Erica Jane, for example, who

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Speaker 2: wasn't directly accused of stealing from the orphans and doing

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Speaker 2: all the things that her husband Tom Giraldi was allegedly

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Speaker 2: accused of. Right, she had no direct line into handling

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Speaker 2: those alleged accusations. Right, she was guilty by proxy by

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Speaker 2: being this man's wife who benefited from it by courtesy

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Speaker 2: of private jets and Glam Squad and fifty thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: Glam Squad Davies.

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Speaker 3: But people said she's.

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Speaker 2: Not likable, and they railroaded her and read her for film.

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Speaker 2: When it came to Jenshaw, who actually did the crime,

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Speaker 2: like actually physically did it, people worshiped her and I

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Speaker 2: thought that was very strange because on one hand, you

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Speaker 2: have Erica Jane, who did not have her hands in it,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, but Jenshaw did. But because Erica Jane

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Speaker 2: is so stoic, who who really comes across like I

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Speaker 2: am who I am, people dismissed her.

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Speaker 3: But for Genshaw, because.

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Speaker 2: She's witty and she's fine and she's whims the call,

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Speaker 2: it's like they gave her a pass. And I thought

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Speaker 2: that was fascinating in terms of how the audience judges

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Speaker 2: people based on their personality trade.

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Speaker 5: I also think there's a micro judgment too, because one

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Speaker 5: is from Beverly Hills, where it's so out of people's

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Speaker 5: realm of understanding their wealth, versus Salt Lake City, which

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Speaker 5: I think in the there's this mindset that it's a

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Speaker 5: more down to earth place like Jenshaw's wealth seems far

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Speaker 5: more relatable to someone like Erica Jane. So that's a

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Speaker 5: part of it too. Another nuance to it, it's not

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Speaker 5: relatable for most people to consider the highest paid plaintiff

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Speaker 5: attorney who had multi million dollar settlements and his pop

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Speaker 5: star adjacent wife dripping in Cardier versus jen Shaw, who

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Speaker 5: presented herself as almost like a stay at home mom

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Speaker 5: and at a side business and a football coach husband.

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Speaker 5: So of course the audience is going to feel more

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Speaker 5: connected to Jen and her husband. That's far more relatable

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Speaker 5: and more Americana than the plaintive attorney.

435
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 4: Very true.

436
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, so yeah,

437
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: I'll ask again, what's Jen Shaw up to in federal prison?

438
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 5: She's running that joints like this story of like there

439
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 5: was one weak piece of bread in the bag. I

440
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 5: don't believe that for one minute. I think she is

441
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 5: running some scam there where people are giving her money.

442
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 5: She's probably got a bunch of snacks in the pod.

443
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 5: I think she she did some statement where she said

444
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 5: she's other women ESL. I was like, wait what. I

445
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 5: just can't imagine her sitting and taking the time to

446
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 5: listen to someone's personal story and to help them read.

447
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 5: I think she's just running the whole place. She's running

448
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 5: plays left and right.

449
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: What do you think, Carlos, I'm sorry, I think Katy's hilarious.

450
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: I was actually envisioning what you were saying as you

451
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 2: were talking about it. I actually listen. I agree with

452
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: you in the sense I think she's running the joy.

453
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: I think she's Big mo from the movie Chicago, Queen

454
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: my Teeth's character.

455
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,959
Speaker 3: I think I think she is like, I'm Big Mama,

456
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 3: and what I say goes yes. I think she's pipping

457
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: out the women.

458
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 2: I think she definitely has so much money in her

459
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 2: books courtesy of other people's family members donations. I think

460
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 2: jen Shaw, listen the type of personality trait she has,

461
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 2: she doesn't come across as a woman who is going

462
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: to drown her sorrows. I think she's going to make

463
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 2: the best out of her situation the best way she

464
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: knows how, and that's by running the joint. I think

465
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: she's a ruler. I think she has found her team.

466
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: I think she has found in the worst of the

467
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: strip club. Don't ask me how I know this, but

468
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 2: I think she's found her her bottom bitch.

469
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 3: That's the woman, right Kate.

470
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: She's found her bottom bitch, which is the woman who's

471
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: like her right hand person. I think she's, like Kate said,

472
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: I think she is the star of that prison.

473
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 5: The minute she leaves, she's on the phone with her

474
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 5: agent on standby and she's like, I've got an idea

475
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 5: for a script. I have an idea for this, We're

476
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 5: going to do merch. She is plotting the entire time

477
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 5: she's in there. Now, she was sentenced and she's to

478
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 5: serve six and a half. Here's I'm sure that will

479
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 5: be reduced. I'm gonna say she walks out after four.

480
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: From what I've read Jenshaw, she's keeping a diary and

481
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: selling subscriptions for her diary in prison. She's creating a

482
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: real Housewives of Brian prison play with other inmates.

483
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 4: She claims to be tutoring them.

484
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 1: She recently completed an anger management course and reportedly said

485
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: she wished she had this when she did The Housewives.

486
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 5: Let's put it this way, I would not be surprised

487
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 5: if she made an appearance on Love After Lockup, Like

488
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 5: someone she's in a pod with is dating somebody from Idaho,

489
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 5: and she weasels her way into the plot line, and

490
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 5: we see her next season on Love After Lockup my

491
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 5: friend Jen here and they're like, She's like, everyone's amazing.

492
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 5: I mean, I wouldn't put a papist. If Josh Mangowitz

493
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 5: and Keith Morrison show up too the Brian jail to

494
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 5: interview someone, she will figure out a way be in it.

495
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 5: It'll be an interview with somebody who murdered their husband,

496
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 5: and she'll somehow find her way an opportunity to also

497
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 5: be interviewed.

498
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 4: I'm sure.

499
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: Just a few days ago, it appears she posted on

500
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: threads that's it. Yeah, and the post was I hope

501
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: everyone's shaw amazing. I mean clearly that was one of

502
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: her pr people, because I don't think you can post

503
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: from threads in prison. What's the strategy there, like to

504
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: keep in the public consciousness and you can.

505
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 5: To keep people talking. She's making calls, she's emailing, she

506
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 5: takes every opportunity. She's like, keep my name in people's mouths.

507
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 5: But you know what, that's Real Housewives strategy one on one. Listen,

508
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 5: you can take the girl off of Real Housewives, but

509
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 5: the girl never leaves Real Housewives.

510
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: No, when Jenshaw gets out of prison in five or

511
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: six years, do you think Bravo will have her back.

512
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: I'll preface this with a quote from Andy Cohen, who

513
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: was very supportive of Jen before she pled guilty, and

514
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: then was shocked when Jen pled guilty, and he said,

515
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: I'm upset, and I'm especially upset for her victims.

516
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: I'm upset that she was accused.

517
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: If you remember sitting there in the reunion show, she

518
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: was so dogmatic about it, I felt, Okay.

519
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 4: Let this woman have her day in court.

520
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: I'm extremely upset about what she said, because, frankly, you

521
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: get to know someone, you get to like them, you

522
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: get to have a personal relationship, and you work with

523
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: someone and you want to cheer them on, and you

524
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: hate to think that they're capable of this behavior.

525
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 4: Andy Cullen is pissed that she's guilty.

526
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 5: I think he's hot and pissed for a hot minute

527
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 5: because he thought that they were going to do an

528
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 5: interview and then she pulled out which anybody who does

529
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 5: the show can understand. In my opinion, she serves her time.

530
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 5: It says that she has had a forfeit six point

531
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 5: five million dollars, thirty luxury items, seventy eight counterfeit items.

532
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 5: If she serves time and she does all those things,

533
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 5: who cares if she goes back. She served her.

534
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 4: Time, and you can it for her.

535
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 5: I mean, if she's interesting enough. I mean I would

536
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 5: assume that's a storyline you want to chase, Like, how

537
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 5: do Heather and Meredith cope when she returns? What is

538
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 5: her life like? Does she still have relationships with her kids?

539
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 5: What about her family members, because they certainly supported her too,

540
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 5: and I think they got swindled. I mean, I think,

541
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 5: of course they're going to follow that storyline. Will people

542
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 5: embrace her the same way? I don't know. Unfortunately, in

543
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 5: the world we live in, if you're funny and you

544
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 5: look like you have Carrie a nice bag, they might No.

545
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: I do agree, I think Listen, I do think she'll

546
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: be asked back.

547
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 3: I think I think in.

548
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: Terms of a pr move, they may say, come back

549
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: as a friend and earn your housewife title. I want

550
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: thousand percent thinks she'll come back. You want to follow

551
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: the story. I'm being very honest. I'm going to watch

552
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: to see how she is. Am I going to watch

553
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: the entire season? I don't know, But am I curious

554
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: enough to see who she's become after present apps of

555
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: freaking Lately? I'm going to watch to see that. And

556
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 2: the difference between her and Teresa is at the end

557
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 2: of the day, I think almost every woman, especially almost

558
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: every housewife, understood that. Okay, I can understand how Teresa

559
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: were signing her name on papers that she wasn't aware

560
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: what she was signing. As a housewife and a woman's husband,

561
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: you do trust her husband, and I think there was

562
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: empathy for Teresa, because again it wasn't No one believes

563
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 2: Teresa knew what was going on. I think a lot

564
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: of people understand that Teresa was bamboozled by her husband,

565
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: and like most women, not all, but most, if the

566
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: husband puts the papers in front of you, hey, babe,

567
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: there's our income tax. Sign your name here, they're gonna

568
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: do it without questions asked. But that's why Teresa was

569
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: able to come back and the show became bigger. They

570
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: put the show on pause for Teresa. I think Jenshaw

571
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: would have to earn her housewife title. But I do

572
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 2: agree with Kay. I think you haven't seen the end

573
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: of Jenshaw. If so, Lake City last the next four years.

574
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 5: But if it doesn't come back, there'll be some other show.

575
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 5: She will be on reality television shows for the rest

576
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 5: of her life. If it's marriage boot Camp, if it's

577
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 5: the Food Network SmackDown how to make a cast role,

578
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 5: she will find a way.

579
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: I assure you.

580
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: That with one wheat bread, Kay, how to make a

581
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: casts all with one wheak bread, Yes, that will.

582
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 5: Be the SmackDown on the Food Network what to do

583
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 5: with one piece of wheatbread, an apple, and an instant

584
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: oatmeal pack, and it will become full circle.

585
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 3: She'll get that on T shirts.

586
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 5: That's going to be the shirt. She leaves the jail

587
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 5: in one piece of wheat bread and says that what's

588
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 5: the merch line right there?

589
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: Yep, sounds like something she'd do for sure, and FYI

590
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: already Jenshaw's six and a half year federal prison sentence

591
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: has been reduced by an entire year. She's now scheduled

592
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: to be released August thirtieth, twenty twenty eight. Thank you

593
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: for listening to this season The Queen of the Con.

594
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: If you're new to the podcast, we have three previous

595
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: seasons about three distinctly different con queens you can venge.

596
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: Season one, The Irish Heriss, chronicles how con artist Mayor

597
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: Smith tricked her way into my life and scammed me

598
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: out of close to one hundred thousand dollars using a

599
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: series of unbelievable confidence tricks that literally brought me to

600
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: my knees. In season two, The OC Savior, we meet

601
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: con artist Lizzie Mulder, who impersonates a cast of made

602
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: up characters using voice changing apps on her phone to

603
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: scam her close circle of friends and clients out of

604
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: more than a million dollars. And season three, The Rich

605
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: Girl is all about con artist Danielle Miller. Part time

606
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: social media influencer, full time scammer. Danielle figures out a

607
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: way to basically impersonate anyone in the flesh, walk into

608
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 1: their bank and withdraw all their money, no questions asked.

609
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 1: I sincerely believe the more you know about how con

610
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: artists operate, the less likely you are to become a victim.

611
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: So pay attention and stay.

612
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 4: Safe out there.

613
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying Queen of the Con, click that share

614
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 1: button and send it to your friends and family. Also,

615
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: if you can leave us a five star review, reviews

616
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: really help other listeners find us. Queen of the Con.

617
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 1: The Unreal Housewife is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,

618
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: hosted by me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for

619
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written

620
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: by Jonathan Walton, Segment producer Gregory Harvey, Senior Associate producer

621
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: Jill Peshesnik, Coordinator Melena Krolysky, edited by Justin Longerbean audio

622
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: engineer Justin Longerbean studio engineer Maximo Abraham.

623
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 4: Legal counsel sold for A y R Media.

624
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: Johnny Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard