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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 1: the show, I'm joined by Derek Dixon to discuss how

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Speaker 1: his year long thermal drone study has helped him better

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Speaker 1: understand white tail deer behavior and how it's debunked some

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Speaker 1: of the conventional white tail wisdom that he grew up with.

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Speaker 1: All Right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by First Light and their Camo for

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Speaker 1: Conservation Initiative. And today we have a very interesting different

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Speaker 1: kind of conversation because we're going to be looking at

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Speaker 1: a number of you might call it whitetail wisdom, conventional wisdom,

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Speaker 1: you might call it like hunterisms, the typical things that

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Speaker 1: we've heard over the years about how dear behave, how

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Speaker 1: they move, how they bed, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And oftentimes, you know, expert deer hunters have these deep

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Speaker 1: foundational beliefs based on our anecdotal observations, based on things

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Speaker 1: we've heard from other PEP people about what deer do

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Speaker 1: and why they do it and when they do it.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of times that's just based on our

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Speaker 1: you know, what we've seen from the tree, or what

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Speaker 1: somebody in a podcast said. Maybe it's based off of

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Speaker 1: GPS collar studies that have some real science and data

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Speaker 1: behind them, but that's kind of rare. Today, we're going

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Speaker 1: to have a set of insights that are backed up

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Speaker 1: by something pretty different. Our guest today is Derek Dixon,

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Speaker 1: and what he brings to the table is the very

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Speaker 1: unique perspective of somebody who has watched deer from above

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Speaker 1: or days and days and days and days with a

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Speaker 1: thermal drum. Now, if you're not familiar, Derek Dixon launched

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Speaker 1: a YouTube channel this summer called white Tail Research. It's

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Speaker 1: taken the Internet by storm. A lot of people have

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Speaker 1: seen these videos. A lot of podcasters have been scrambling

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Speaker 1: to get Derek on the show. I did as well.

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Speaker 1: I reached out to him August and we've finally gotten

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Speaker 1: around to having this chat. But I'll be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: I originally was not sure that I wanted to have

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Speaker 1: this conversation because I was concerned about the Pandora's box

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Speaker 1: that could be opened with this technology. Because well, let

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Speaker 1: me explain. If you're not familiar with one of thermal drones,

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Speaker 1: I want to explain to you exactly first why they

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Speaker 1: are so incredible of a research tool, Why Derek has

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Speaker 1: been able to see so much interesting stuff and bring

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Speaker 1: it back to tell us about. But then number two,

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Speaker 1: the really concerning fair chase implications of this technology too.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: I actually got to see a thermal drone in use

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Speaker 1: for the first time this summer, and let me tell

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Speaker 1: you about that. I went visited with a friend and

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Speaker 1: he said, I've got this thermal drone. It's pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: It allows you to see what's out there in a

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Speaker 1: way that nothing else ever has before. Told me the

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Speaker 1: story about how he showed up on this property the

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Speaker 1: day before, and the landowners said, well, you know, last

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Speaker 1: year I had this booner that made it through the

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Speaker 1: hunting season. So I'm thinking he should still be out here.

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping he's still here. And my friend said, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'll find him. He throws his drone up in the sky.

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Speaker 1: Within I believe it was ninety seconds he had found

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Speaker 1: that buck, zoomed in and was filming it so close

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Speaker 1: that you could see like the flies buzzing around the

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Speaker 1: steer's head. What a thermal drone allows you to do.

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Speaker 1: These are very very high powered drones. These are different

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Speaker 1: than you know, the little dji things that some of

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Speaker 1: us have flown to take pictures and cool videos and stuff.

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Speaker 1: This is next level technology. These drones have, as the

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Speaker 1: name would indicate, a thermal camera, so it will actually

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Speaker 1: show the heat signature of an animal on the landscape.

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Speaker 1: So you throw this drone I don't know how many

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Speaker 1: feet up, three hundred feet up or five hundred feet

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Speaker 1: up or whatever the max is, You flip on that

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Speaker 1: thermal and then the animals just light up and show

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Speaker 1: on the screen right away. You see where all the

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Speaker 1: deer are right away. And then these cameras, these next

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Speaker 1: level drone cameras have I'm not sure what the optical

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Speaker 1: zoom is, but it's ten x or one hundred x

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Speaker 1: or something crazy. Just tap on that screen, double tap,

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Speaker 1: and it zooms right into that animal, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, it's like you're hovering ten feet above this buck,

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Speaker 1: right over his shoulder, watching everything he's doing, as if

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Speaker 1: you are I don't know the CIA on a military

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Speaker 1: emission watching a target. It was, you know, to see

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Speaker 1: that firsthand was fascinating, I guess to say the least,

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Speaker 1: but also scary, like what this could mean if somebody

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Speaker 1: tried to use this technology to change how they hunted.

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Speaker 1: So if you have this technology in the right hands,

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Speaker 1: though in the hands of somebody like Derek Dixon, who

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Speaker 1: is using this tool for research purposes, it's pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: Because what Derek was able to do last year, he

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Speaker 1: took the year off from hunting. He decid, I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna hunt while I have this tool, and while I'm

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Speaker 1: using this technology, and I'm just gonna wake up every

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Speaker 1: day and I'm going to follow deer. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: watch deer from above and track and kind of measure

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Speaker 1: and take notes of everything they do, where they go,

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Speaker 1: how they do it, when they do it, why they

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Speaker 1: do it, and film all this and track all of this.

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Speaker 1: And he did that for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds

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Speaker 1: and hundreds of hours. He you know, we didn't get

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Speaker 1: into it here in this conversation, but as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: he lost his job and he had this free time

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Speaker 1: and he decided to devote it to this research project.

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Speaker 1: So he basically took this research project on as a

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Speaker 1: full time job and study these deer all day, every day,

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Speaker 1: all fall, for hours and hours. And so he has

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Speaker 1: a level of insight. He has a window into the

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Speaker 1: world of white tails that's different than almost anything else.

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Speaker 1: You're able to see things. He was able to see

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Speaker 1: things and watch things and see how deer behaved throughout

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Speaker 1: a day, watch a single mature buck or multiple mature

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Speaker 1: bucks through many many different days, and watched how they

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Speaker 1: moved through a landscape, watched how they betted, when they betted,

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Speaker 1: how they chose to bed, how they got to their bed,

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Speaker 1: what wind conditions helped them choose where to bed. But

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Speaker 1: about how they approached a feeding hear how do they

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Speaker 1: do that? Do they coming straight in? Do they jayhook in?

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Speaker 1: Do they curve around the downwind side? How do they

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Speaker 1: impact to hunting pressure? How did other deer move in

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Speaker 1: through the area change their behavior. There's a million different

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Speaker 1: questions that Derek was able to answer with this tool.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely incredible and those are the things we talk about

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Speaker 1: today on our podcast. We cover the many different Aha

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Speaker 1: moments he had as he watched these forty four different

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Speaker 1: deer that he studied, these forty four different bucks. I

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Speaker 1: believe that he studied extensively throughout this project. We're going

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Speaker 1: to get insight into what kind of impact he saw

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Speaker 1: when it came to cold fronts. We're going to get

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Speaker 1: into the impact that he saw from hunting pressure from

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Speaker 1: different access route strategies. We're going to talk through how

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Speaker 1: bucks bed, how they travel in the wind, how they

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Speaker 1: utilize wind, how they utilize funnels. We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: through how effective trail cameras actually are or are not.

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Speaker 1: This and much much more was illuminated for Derek while

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Speaker 1: using this thermal drum. So that is why it's such

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Speaker 1: a wildly interesting technology and tool to use in this context.

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Speaker 1: On the flip side, though, can you imagine how inappropriate

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Speaker 1: and unethical it would be if you had this tool,

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Speaker 1: Let's say on October first, and you were going to

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Speaker 1: go out for the opening day hunt of bo season,

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Speaker 1: and you decide, Okay, I don't know where to hunt tonight,

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Speaker 1: so I'm going to throw out my drum and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to send it over my property and within a minute,

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Speaker 1: it's going to tell me where every single deer is

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Speaker 1: on the property. And with this camera, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be allowed me to zoom right in and identify every

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Speaker 1: deer and then I can say, oh, yep, okay, the

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Speaker 1: one buck I'm after is betted right here in this spot.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go sneak within sixty five yards of

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Speaker 1: him get down when set up, wambam, Thank you, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: That's your hunt. Can you imagine that? Is that hunting?

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Speaker 1: Is that what our forefathers trained us, taught us, built

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Speaker 1: this tradition around. Is that what we want to leave

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Speaker 1: to our kids. Is this kind of hunting? As far

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Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, the answer is no. That is not hunting.

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Speaker 1: That is not what we want to pass down to

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Speaker 1: our kids. That is not an appropriate fair chase method

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Speaker 1: for pursuing game in any in any kind of way.

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Speaker 1: So my hope is that by having these conversations, by

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Speaker 1: sharing this technology, it will hopefully bring greater awareness to

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Speaker 1: the fact that this is out there and that it

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Speaker 1: needs to be carefully regulated and managed. I've already been

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Speaker 1: working with the National Deer Association on their position statements

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Speaker 1: around drones and have actually talked with them about the

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Speaker 1: implications of thermal drones and how our position statement might

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Speaker 1: need to evolve in the future given this new technology.

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Speaker 1: I hope and I expect that our state game agencies

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Speaker 1: will continue to monitor this technology and take the appropriate

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Speaker 1: steps to make sure it's not being abused. I know

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Speaker 1: that there is a real case to be made for

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Speaker 1: using this technology to recover deer, and I think that

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Speaker 1: is a great use of it to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we are recovering wounded and mortally hit game, making sure

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Speaker 1: that that meat is being utilized. Absolutely, but we need

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Speaker 1: to make sure that in season use outside of that is,

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Speaker 1: if it was up to me, it would be banned.

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Speaker 1: I don't think these should be used in season other

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Speaker 1: than recovering game. That's my take. Smarter people than I

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Speaker 1: will debate this and determine what the appropriate regulations and

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Speaker 1: rules are. But I would ask you, if this is

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Speaker 1: something that you have access to, to think really long

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Speaker 1: and hard about what the appropriate way is to use

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Speaker 1: it so as not to lose the soul of what

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Speaker 1: we are doing as hunters. So that is a long

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Speaker 1: winded on ramp here to our conversation. We're going to

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Speaker 1: get into this conversation around fair chase and the ethics

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Speaker 1: of using drones with Derek at the end of the conversation,

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Speaker 1: and he has some strong opinions on it as well

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Speaker 1: that I really appreciated hearing about. So without any further ado,

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Speaker 1: let's get to my chat with Derek Dixon about the

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Speaker 1: many fascinating AHA moments he had as he studied forty

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Speaker 1: four different bucks over the course of last year. With

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Speaker 1: this incredible thermal drone technology, We're going to learn a

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Speaker 1: lot about how dear actually behave what he saw these

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Speaker 1: deer actually doing. It's going to maybe confirm some things

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Speaker 1: we believe, but also upend some of them as well.

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Speaker 1: Without further ado, my chat with Derek Dixon of White

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Speaker 1: Tail Research. All right with me now on the line

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Speaker 1: is Derek Dixon. Welcome to the show. Derek.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thanks for having me on, Mark.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you making time to do it. You are

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Speaker 1: a hot commodity right now. I ran across your first

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Speaker 1: video probably a day or two after it came out

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Speaker 1: on YouTube, messaged you right away back in August, and

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Speaker 1: so we started talking then and then life got crazy

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Speaker 1: and we just now got to recording this. But I'm

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Speaker 1: glad we're doing it. I've got to ask you, in

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Speaker 1: the month or so, or maybe it's been a little

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Speaker 1: bit more a month or two since you kind of

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Speaker 1: started releasing your findings in your first videos, how have

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Speaker 1: you felt about the feedback, about the commentary, about the

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Speaker 1: interest in your work so far.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was something that I was actually pretty impressed

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Speaker 3: with it. Took quite a long time to start finding

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Speaker 3: the people that were a little more negative towards it.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like the group of individuals that were

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Speaker 3: being negative towards it, they hadn't actually watched anything that

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Speaker 3: I'd done yet, So it was just kind of seeing

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Speaker 3: a guy with a thermal drone and potentially applying it

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Speaker 3: to a hunting situation, and you know, hysteria hit and

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Speaker 3: other than that, though everyone that's actually well not everyone,

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Speaker 3: but like ninety nine percent of people that have actually

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Speaker 3: watched the videos that have commented on it and made

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Speaker 3: their their opinion vocal, they're they're really positive about it.

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Speaker 3: And that was something that going into it I wasn't

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent expecting. I kind of felt like I

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Speaker 3: was throwing myself into the fire a little bit by

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Speaker 3: introducing the capabilities of these drones in a research application,

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Speaker 3: but I was hoping that I could do so in

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Speaker 3: a way that everyone would be able to immediately gain

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Speaker 3: respect from it and be like, Okay, like this guy's

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Speaker 3: intentions are really really pure in what he's attempting to do,

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Speaker 3: and you know, kind of kind of run with that,

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Speaker 3: And that's exactly what happened definitely had a massive, amazing

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Speaker 3: amount of feedback and beyond anything that I was prepared

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Speaker 3: for for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's it's fascinating stuff. And I know folks

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Speaker 1: have told you this already, but you've done a really

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Speaker 1: good job with it, so kudos for that. But the pushback,

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Speaker 1: I could see there being two angles of pushback, one

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Speaker 1: being you know, fair chase implications of this kind of tool,

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Speaker 1: which we're definitely going to talk about. But the second,

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Speaker 1: and I'm curious if you've seen this, if you've heard

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Speaker 1: from people in this, one of the pieces of pushback

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Speaker 1: I've wondered about might be related to your methodology, like

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Speaker 1: the sample size and the process you've gone through to

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Speaker 1: you know, accumulate your findings. I could see some kind

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Speaker 1: of wonky research expert coming in and saying, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is an end of one. This is too small

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Speaker 1: a sample size, you're basing your findings off of something

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Speaker 1: that's too anecdotal. I'm curious what your response is to

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Speaker 1: that possible pushback. And then if you could walk us

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Speaker 1: through in more detail, you know exactly what your process

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Speaker 1: has been here, How did you you know what's the

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Speaker 1: scale of what you've done here. What kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: time and sample size have you explored here to come

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Speaker 1: to your fund Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, And actually to that with with the experts kind

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Speaker 3: of contacting and reaching out and being a little bit

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Speaker 3: potentially skeptical. I've heard from many many of the experts

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Speaker 3: in the field already, and a lot of them highly

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Speaker 3: respect what I've done so far and they think that

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Speaker 3: I've done in a really good manner. So that was

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Speaker 3: definitely a massive pat on my back whenever. It took

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Speaker 3: a while for any of them, you know, the people

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Speaker 3: that I would recognize in that field, to reach out

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Speaker 3: to me, But then they finally did and we started

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Speaker 3: talking about it, and they definitely had a lot of

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Speaker 3: really positive things to say about it. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: I have heard from the experts in that field, but

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Speaker 3: my methodology is going into it. Last season, I was

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Speaker 3: really heavily focusing on mature bucks during daylight activity, and

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Speaker 3: I was just going to gather as much data collection

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Speaker 3: as possible.

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Speaker 2: There really wasn't.

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Speaker 3: There were a few times, and you'll see this in

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Speaker 3: future videos, where I had like a couple individual topics

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Speaker 3: that I went into it really harping on. But for

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Speaker 3: the most part, my goal was to find as many

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Speaker 3: mature bucks as I possibly could and track them for

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Speaker 3: as long as I possibly could until I lost them

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Speaker 3: in that timeframe, and that's exactly what I did. And

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Speaker 3: then across the board, like say I found one particular buck,

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Speaker 3: this kind of gets into what I was actually doing

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Speaker 3: and what I was actually collecting. Say I went out,

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Speaker 3: I found a buck early in the morning, then I

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Speaker 3: would document quite a few variables about the day, just

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Speaker 3: basics about the day, thirty to forty variables that across

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Speaker 3: every single year that I was researching per day. But

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Speaker 3: then whenever I would finally locate him, whether he was

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Speaker 3: standing or he was betting, then I would mark that

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Speaker 3: as an event. So let's in this story, let's say

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Speaker 3: that he was betting, because oftentimes I could find them

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Speaker 3: betting in the morning. Then I would mark twenty five

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Speaker 3: to thirty variables based off of what he's doing in

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Speaker 3: that particular bed, so and everything in relation to it,

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Speaker 3: so wind direction, wind speed, temperature.

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Speaker 2: Time of day, time spent in bed, all.

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Speaker 3: These different things, and then I would mark all those

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Speaker 3: down and as soon as he would stand up, I

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Speaker 3: would time stamp it and then that would be his

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Speaker 3: movement pattern from then on, and then I would document

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Speaker 3: twenty five to thirty variables depended upon all of his

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Speaker 3: movement patterns and what he was doing throughout that time frame.

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Speaker 3: And really during movement you potentially get more because there

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Speaker 3: might be a scenario where he hits a rub or

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Speaker 3: he hits a scrape, and he's doing these types of

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Speaker 3: activities while on his feet or he's feeding, and you

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Speaker 3: can document that as well and also time stamp every

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Speaker 3: single one of them. But then as soon as he

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Speaker 3: beds back down, then you mark that variable as again

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Speaker 3: it's an event, and then the time stamp it, and

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Speaker 3: then twenty five thirty variables once again. You just repeat

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Speaker 3: that over and over and over every single day and

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Speaker 3: crossed every single buck, and in the end you end

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Speaker 3: up with over one hundred and fifty variables per day

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Speaker 3: per year that you research, and it gets pretty overwhelming.

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Speaker 3: But all of that stuff becomes filterable in a spreadsheets

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Speaker 3: where it just kind of automates itself and kicks out,

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Speaker 3: and then you have like a master sheet where you

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Speaker 3: have deer one, two, three, four all the way. I

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Speaker 3: think I think I have forty four bucks that I

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Speaker 3: researched last season, and then they all have filter bowls

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Speaker 3: based off of like yards per hour, So this buck

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Speaker 3: travels at an average yards per hour in the early

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Speaker 3: season kind of in October, November, December, January. If I

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Speaker 3: was able to watch him that often at this rate

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Speaker 3: of speed in terms of yards per hour, here's like

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Speaker 3: his general tendencies here. Did he have any injuries? Did

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Speaker 3: those injuries seem to have an effect on the way

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Speaker 3: that he was behaving? All these types of things, literally

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Speaker 3: anything that you could possibly think of. I was attempting

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Speaker 3: to document it across the board, but I wasn't entering

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Speaker 3: it with an individual goal in mind except for just

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Speaker 3: document as much as you possibly can, and then later

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Speaker 3: on after the season's over. And obviously there's a few

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Speaker 3: things I noticed during the season where it's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: maybe maybe start focusing on that a little bit more.

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Speaker 3: But in the end, I was trying to just get

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Speaker 3: as much data as possible so that way, whenever season

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Speaker 3: was done, I can go back and I can really

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Speaker 3: harp on it and kind of like phone in on

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Speaker 3: those individual topics like deer betting on the leeward side

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Speaker 3: of the ridge, deer moving and coordinates with wind, and

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Speaker 3: all these types of things and see if there was

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Speaker 3: a correlation with any of that. And in the end, yes,

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Speaker 3: my sample size isn't crazy large, but still there's forty

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Speaker 3: four deer that I recorded, and I recorded mature bucks

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Speaker 3: moving for over twenty one hundred hours, which it's quite

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Speaker 3: a long timeframe. I don't know anyone else that has

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Speaker 3: visual movement of twenty one hundred hours on mature Bucks.

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Speaker 3: If you do, then contact me. I'd love to see it.

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Speaker 3: But that's quite a bit of time. And I think

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Speaker 3: that the experts also agree that, like, that's a pretty

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Speaker 3: big sample size, especially for my area, and that's where

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Speaker 3: that's where you can start getting into the where maybe

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Speaker 3: it's not as applicable a lot of the things I

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Speaker 3: talk about.

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Speaker 2: It's very very applicable for my area.

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Speaker 3: But you know, maybe going down into Florida or southern Alabama, Mississippi,

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Speaker 3: those areas or big agg country where there's little pockets

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Speaker 3: of timber and it's just flat as can be and

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Speaker 3: you can see forever. You know, it might a lot

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Speaker 3: of the topics I talk about may not apply in

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Speaker 3: those areas, and I would love to go to those

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Speaker 3: locations and do research on them. But there's also only

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Speaker 3: one me, So I'm trying to figure that out in

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Speaker 3: terms of how we can kind of expand this a

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Speaker 3: little bit more in a really healthy way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, have you heard from any institutions yet about wanting

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Speaker 1: to take this idea and scale it? You know, has

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Speaker 1: Mississippi State University reached out or any one of these

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Speaker 1: deer programs said hey, this is a great idea, how

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Speaker 1: can we do this within our program?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I've had a couple of universities reach out, But my

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Speaker 3: problem with teaming with a university is I don't personally

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Speaker 3: want to get involved in a situation where you have

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Speaker 3: to rely on government funding because at the moment that

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Speaker 3: you do that, then you kind of have to fine

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Speaker 3: tune your ideas and projects towards what they're wanting because

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Speaker 3: they're the ones providing the funding. So I have been

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Speaker 3: been in talk, like I said earlier, with some pretty

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Speaker 3: big names. I feel confident being able to.

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Speaker 2: Throw one out. We're going to collaborate later in the season.

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Speaker 2: Bronson Strickland.

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Speaker 3: I think everyone probably knows his name, so so yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're going to be collaborating later in.

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Speaker 2: The season, and we have some ideas going to the future.

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Speaker 3: But really the big, the big goal is going to

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Speaker 3: be trying to gain private funding for large scale research

389
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Speaker 3: projects over government funding, so that way we can choose

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Speaker 3: what we're going to be researching and really make it

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Speaker 3: a little bit more applicable for our space, and also

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Speaker 3: still retain that science side of things, like we're really

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Speaker 3: it's going to be science based, but in the end

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Speaker 3: it'll be able to spin off better for the hunting

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Speaker 3: community and really just to allow people to.

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Speaker 2: Gain more confidence and what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, so wonderful. Segue Bronson has done a

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Speaker 1: great job of discussing many of the different studies around

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Speaker 1: deer movement and how various atmospheric weather, moon factors, different

400
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Speaker 1: things like that all may or may not impact deer movement.

401
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,399
Speaker 1: Just came out with a report last year looking at

402
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Speaker 1: the moon in quite great detail and kind of breaking

403
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Speaker 1: down some of the different myths and whatnot. And I'm

404
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Speaker 1: curious when you consider what you've seen compared to GPS

405
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Speaker 1: collar studies, the conventional wisdom, the popular science out there

406
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Speaker 1: right now, I'm really interested about what you have seen

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Speaker 1: that's diverged from what those studies have shown. Because the

408
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Speaker 1: big thing that comes up time and time and time again.

409
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Speaker 1: Is that when you talk to serious deer hunters, you

410
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Speaker 1: hear wow, cold fronts man, they get deer moving. Or

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Speaker 1: there's everyone's got a favorite moon theory about how this

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Speaker 1: thing or that thing might impact deer movement, or a

413
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Speaker 1: high and rising barometric pressure. There's all of these different

414
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Speaker 1: variables that such and such expert deer hunter says, well,

415
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Speaker 1: that's the thing that's really going to get a mature

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Speaker 1: buck on his feed and moving. But every GPS color

417
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Speaker 1: study to date has never found a statistically significant impact

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Speaker 1: on movement. None of those things have lined up in

419
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 1: a statistically significant way. So you watched forty some different

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Speaker 1: bucks for twenty one hundred hours over the course of

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Speaker 1: so many different days. Have you found anything different than

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Speaker 1: what those studies indicated? Is there some variable, Is there

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Speaker 1: some factor that did have a statistically significant difference make

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Speaker 1: a statistically significant difference on the chure buck movement?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And in relation to all the topics you just mentioned,

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Speaker 3: like moon and temperature and whatnot, I have not found

427
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Speaker 3: anything that correlates kind of similar basically, like you said,

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Speaker 3: a statistically big enough difference that it was worth worthy

429
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Speaker 3: of being able to, you know, kind of parp on

430
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Speaker 3: and talk about I haven't seen anything, but the one

431
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Speaker 3: thing I have seen is wind shifting in the middle

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Speaker 3: of the day. That's been one variable that actually had

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Speaker 3: you know, they mature bucks in particular, seemed to stand

434
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Speaker 3: up very, very consistently with a mid day wind shift.

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Speaker 2: And that was the first time I recorded.

436
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 3: I actually started kind of freaking out because I went

437
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 3: out there with the intention of recording that, and then

438
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 3: as it was it was sprinkling a little bit, and

439
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 3: as the wind kind of started wrapping around him from

440
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 3: the south off to the west, then he just stood

441
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 3: up like right right on whenever my phone kind of

442
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 3: I had documented where I thought he was going to stand,

443
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 3: and he stood within five minutes of that. And I

444
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 3: remember just like spam texting.

445
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 2: My wife like he's up, He's up. He actually staid

446
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: and so watched him do that.

447
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 3: But I watched that across the board multiple times, and

448
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 3: over time I started trying to piece together why why

449
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 3: are they getting up out of their bed whenever the

450
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 3: wind is shifting in And this is kind of a

451
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 3: it's a really interesting topic because you initially would think

452
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: it's it's it's because of the wind, and they're wanting

453
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 3: to reposition their bedding location because with that wind shifting,

454
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: it's putting them at a potential disadvantage in their current location,

455
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 3: so thus they need to relocate. But I don't think

456
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 3: that's exactly why, and maybe maybe some scenarios that's why

457
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 3: they're doing it, But I think the reason that they're

458
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 3: shifting dependent on wind. And the reason for this before

459
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 3: I say it is I've recorded multiple times in mature

460
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: Buck bed it kind of in like a thermal hub

461
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 3: type situation on a south facing slope with a south

462
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 3: facing wind. He's betting on the windward side of the

463
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 3: ridge and the wind wraps all the way around to

464
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 3: a north wind ten to fifteen miles per hour to

465
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 3: the cold front moving in, and he decides to get

466
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 3: up and move based off of that. But in that scenario,

467
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 3: he would have been in a perfect betting location for

468
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 3: that because he's in a thermal hub, he's on the

469
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 3: leeward side of the ridge. Why why are you getting

470
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 3: up and moving out of that scenario? And the only

471
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 3: thing I've been able to piece together from that is

472
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 3: I think they have a predetermined idea as to where

473
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 3: they want to spend that evening movement period, and whenever

474
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 3: the wind shifts based off of that, then it kind

475
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 3: of makes that location that they were going to be

476
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 3: going to not as viable in their mind. So therefore

477
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: they have to shift dependent upon where they want to

478
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: be that evening and not so much as where they

479
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: need to be betting for safety and to have everything

480
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 3: to their advantage. I think that it's really dependent upon

481
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 3: where they're wanting to be in that evening time frame.

482
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 3: And that was pretty veastinad.

483
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: Interesting. So you in some of the videos and some

484
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: of the conversations I've heard you had in recent weeks,

485
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: one thing that has come up a lot is is

486
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: how deer use wind. And this is something that I

487
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of conventional wisdom around. There's a

488
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: lot of beliefs. You know, some people have got hard

489
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: set beliefs around how bucks use the wind to bed.

490
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: Other people have hard set beliefs around how deer use

491
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: wind when they're traveling. So I want to throw a

492
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: couple of these pieces of conventional wisdom at you, and

493
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: I would love to hear some detail around what you've

494
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: seen in real life when you're watching these deer right

495
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: So a big one is that, as you mentioned just

496
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: a second ago, deer prefer to travel into the wind.

497
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: If they're going to approach a food source or if

498
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: they're going to approach somewhere of importance to them, maybe

499
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: a betting ear, they want to smell what's there first,

500
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: So they're going to try to move into the wind

501
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: in some way, whether that be right in their face

502
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: or quartering two. Does that Does that track true as

503
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: you've watched all these deer, Yeah, no.

504
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 3: Movement and betting in relation to wind is something that

505
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 3: I have not been able to see much of a

506
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 3: correlation to. And that's actually the second fascinating thing that

507
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 3: I found, And I started kind of having to force

508
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 3: myself to ask why and what, Like why am I

509
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: seeing these weird scenarios? And I'll give you one of

510
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 3: my favorite scenarios, and I've used it before, but it's

511
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 3: just it's such a fascinating one where I had recorded

512
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 3: a mature about betting on the leeward side of the

513
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: ridge pretty consistently. He'd been doing it for maybe three

514
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: or four days in a row, and it was like, okay,

515
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 3: maybe there's maybe you know, percentage wise, we're starting leaning

516
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 3: towards leeward side of the ridge here, which is is becoming,

517
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 3: you know a little bit more like what people had said.

518
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: And then one day there was a cold front that

519
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 3: was moving in. It was twenty five mile per hour

520
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: north wind. It was spitting ice. It was like five

521
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 3: degrees think it felt like negative one. It was disgusting

522
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: that day, and he was betted on the windward side

523
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: of the ridge facing the storm. And he's just laying there.

524
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 3: His antlers and everything are just getting piled with ice,

525
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 3: and he's just facing the storm. And as soon as

526
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 3: I saw that, I just kind of took everything about

527
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: leeward sides of the ridge and I just like threw

528
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 3: it out the window because I had no idea and

529
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 3: I still to this day really that particular example, I

530
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 3: have no idea why he was there. I don't know

531
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: if maybe he was moving back towards his evening bed

532
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: and he got tired and he just decided this is

533
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 3: where I'm plopping down, and it's like, well, there's a

534
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: storm too bad, like I'm just going to stay here,

535
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: or really why he decided to.

536
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: Bed in that location. But I've seen that multiple times.

537
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: Where they bet on the windward side of the ridge

538
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 3: with a storm kind of coming in and it didn't

539
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: make much sense. And then in coordination with moving up

540
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 3: to a feeding area in the evening timeframe and kind

541
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 3: of trying to wrap the downwind side of it prior

542
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: to entering up nearby it or kind of into a

543
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 3: staging area location. I haven't seen that correlation hardly at all,

544
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: and I think that the reason why is because thermals

545
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 3: are kind of king. I think thermals are number one

546
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: for what a deer is attempting to utilize in terms

547
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: of how they're moving and whenever they're gaining access to

548
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: an area that they want to be able to smell,

549
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: if the wind is not volatile enough to be able

550
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 3: to actually disturb the thermals at the top in that area,

551
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 3: then I think that they're really trying to position themselves

552
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 3: at a thermal advantage way more often than they are

553
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 3: in a wind advantage. I think a scenario like from

554
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: a hunter's perspective, where you're going to see and I

555
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: didn't record this much because I didn't record hunters a

556
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: lot across last season, but everybody's seen it where you

557
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: rattle out of buck and he just completely ignores you

558
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 3: who walks away wraps down.

559
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 2: Wind of you, and then he moves in.

560
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 3: So like, they will attempt to use wind to their

561
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: advantage whenever there's something that is outside of the norm

562
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: that occurs and they need to go out and check it.

563
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: But in terms of wrapping dough bedding to go and

564
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: get down wind of every dough bed and every single

565
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 3: food source, you have to think about it from the

566
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 3: efficiency mindset of how efficient and how inefficient actually a

567
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 3: mature buck would become if say, on a morning travel route,

568
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 3: he wanted to scent check I don't know, eight groups

569
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 3: of doughs all the way across a mile on a

570
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 3: high stretch that he's going to walk of train diversity,

571
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 3: and in that stretch he's going to try to wrap

572
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: downwind of every single group of doughs along the way.

573
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 3: He's not going to that would be extremely inefficient for

574
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: him in terms of how many steps he's going to

575
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 3: be taking. So for him in that scenario in the

576
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 3: morning travel, he's going to try to intersect every single

577
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 3: dough trail along the way and he's just going to

578
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 3: scent check the ground versus wrapping downwind of every single group,

579
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: and that makes him extremely efficient at that point, and

580
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: it allows him to stay back further and cover away

581
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: from where those dough groups are. So yeah, And in

582
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: the end, the answer to that is, I think they

583
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: utilize thermals far more often than they do the wind.

584
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: So tell me, then, let's talk thermals. You've emphasized that

585
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: numerous times as being maybe the big aha. Is that

586
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: accurate to say, like the thermal impact was maybe even

587
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: bigger than you thought originally?

588
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think definitely a big aha moment.

589
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 3: And also it's it I'm not one hundred percent on

590
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: it still, but I think that it's really dependent upon

591
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 3: the wind and how volatile that wind is. So if

592
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: you have a really harsh wind that's kind of eight

593
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: to fifteen twenty miles per hour that's going to shove

594
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 3: and swirl and mess with everything, then I think in

595
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: that scenario, wind might become a little bit more important.

596
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 3: But I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I do.

597
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: I do definitely see quite frequently bucks utilizing thermals to

598
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 3: their advantage in a scenario where there's just really low

599
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: winds that are steady and they're not volatile, You're not

600
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: having gusts up into the fifteen mile Prower range. Ever,

601
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 3: they're just kind of like in that two to eight

602
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: mile Prier range and just very very steady. I think

603
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 3: at that time frame, that's whenever mature buck is the

604
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: most confident to be able to get up on its

605
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: feet and be able to utilize thermals to his advantage.

606
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: So, how have you seen mature bucks do that? What

607
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: does that actually look like in real life?

608
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, one of the first times I started noticing

609
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: that there was definitely a correlation with thermals and when

610
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: mature bucks were moving was in the evening timeframe. I

611
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 3: was seeing whenever the thermals switch. And whenever I say

612
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: thermal switch, I don't particularly mean that they were rising,

613
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 3: you know, all day long with the sun and then

614
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 3: all of a sudden they just switch and out now

615
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 3: they're dropping. It's more so whenever the thermals switch, and

616
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 3: thermals in that particular location that their betting area or

617
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 3: that they're betting in should start to start swirling. And

618
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: that swirling effect can take quite a long time before

619
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: it actually switches and it starts to drop. And in

620
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 3: that particular instance, I think that they realize that they

621
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 3: are at a massive advantage whenever thermals are swirling in

622
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: the section that they're going to be moving in, because

623
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 3: they're able to gain intel from everywhere around them in

624
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 3: that setting. And that's whenever I've noticed that, whenever thermals

625
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 3: switch in that area kind of based off of my estimation,

626
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: But my estimation for that was really where they were

627
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: betted at, because really you have the sun that rises

628
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 3: in the east and then it kind of wraps in

629
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,959
Speaker 3: the wintertime kind of on the south side, and then

630
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 3: it moves back over in the west, and you can

631
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 3: depict where the sun is going to be hitting. You

632
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: can also see it with thermal drone fun fact, but

633
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: you can depict where the sun is hitting on those

634
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 3: ridge systems in relation to where they're bedding, so what

635
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 3: ground is potentially being heated, So that way, the thermals

636
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 3: can start rising in those areas, and then whenever the

637
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 3: sun leaves that location and it starts to become shaded,

638
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 3: and then that you know, at that moment it might

639
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 3: take a while, but then everything's going to start swirling

640
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 3: in those locations. And I was seeing whenever you related

641
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: it to temperature as well, kind of within five to

642
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes of the peak temperature for the day as

643
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: it kind of just started to get back off. You

644
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: could just look at your weather app and see it.

645
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: For whatever reason, they were standing within five to fifteen

646
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 3: minutes of that range, or five to ten minutes somewhere

647
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 3: in there, and it didn't particularly mean that they were

648
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 3: going to move off of that. Sometimes they would just

649
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 3: stand and they would just browse around, kind of clean themselves,

650
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 3: ruminate a little a little bit, and then all of

651
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 3: a sudden they would just kind of head off and

652
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 3: decide to move on with their evening pattern. And then

653
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 3: in some scenarios they would get up and they would

654
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 3: immediately move off with their evening pattern. I don't really

655
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 3: know that correlation between why one or the other, but

656
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: there was definitely something in relation to the thermals starting

657
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 3: to switch in that area and swirl and then deciding

658
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: to get up.

659
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: Did anything you saw from a thermal impact standpoint change

660
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: the way you would hunt one of these deer?

661
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean probably quite a bit.

662
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: I think there's a different There's a ton of scenarios

663
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: that you could come up with, but I think the

664
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: number one thing that you need to start trying to

665
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: pay attention to as a hunter is how those thermals

666
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: are going to play into not you know, really a

667
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: lot of times whenever you traditionally, for me, especially whenever

668
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: I would try to place the stand location, even in

669
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 3: hill country, I was always trying to think of ways

670
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 3: to position myself with an advantage with the wind. But

671
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: there are some scenarios where you can have a disadvantage

672
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: with the wind, but you can have a thermal advantage

673
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: in that particular location because you're going to be getting

674
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: heated by the sun still kind of late into the evening,

675
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 3: and your thermals are going to be able to potentially

676
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: rise out of the area. And there's there's quite a

677
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:00,959
Speaker 3: few very depend on that.

678
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: You know.

679
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 3: If you're in a situation where it's early season and

680
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 3: there's a lot of green foliage, and it's a south wind,

681
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,959
Speaker 3: and you're kind of hunting off the off down towards

682
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 3: the bottom of this kind of southwest facing slope, and

683
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 3: that south wind is going to be kind of it's

684
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 3: gonna be edging you you're scent up that ridge, but

685
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 3: there's a lot of green foliage, then your sen is

686
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: going to probably roll up underneath the green foliage and

687
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 3: start swirling up the ridge and at some point it's

688
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 3: just going to become a kind of a big ball

689
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 3: of nastiness where yeah, mature Buck's gonna be able to

690
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: sent check you still because your thermals never actually left

691
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 3: the canopy, they got trapped underneath it. So there's a

692
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 3: lot of ways to apply it. That's it's going to

693
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: be probably my biggest video that comes out someday, and

694
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 3: it's gonna be like forty five minutes or more long,

695
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 3: and it's going to get really nerdy and that pickular topic,

696
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 3: but just because there's so many different variables that can

697
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 3: take place across the season in relation to thermals, but

698
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 3: definitely trying to find ways to not just look at

699
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 3: wind direction to put yourself in an advantage with the

700
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: wind direction, which is a massive thing to be able

701
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 3: to do if you can put the wind to your advantage,

702
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: because that that just helps shove your scent in that

703
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 3: particular direction. I do think that as a hunter we

704
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 3: can utilize wind more potentially more than a mature baccan

705
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 3: to your advantage. But trying to position yourself at a

706
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: thermal advantage, and you know, for me, one of the

707
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 3: one of the coolest things that you can do is

708
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 3: try to find locations where there's pockets of like a

709
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 3: really steep drainage that's impassable for a white fild deer,

710
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: especially in hill country, and you're you're always trying to

711
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 3: push your scent into a location that's impassable by white

712
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 3: tailed deer or it's very very very unlikely that they're

713
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 3: going to be moving by that location. And if you

714
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 3: can find a scenario where you can do that, where

715
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 3: you can shove your scent in an area where they're

716
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 3: not going to pass through, but you're also in a

717
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 3: high traffic zone, then you're pretty much undetectable that entire

718
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: hunt if you're able to get your scent to go

719
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 3: down there, and then they can just move past you,

720
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 3: and yeah, et cetera. So the hardest part for a

721
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: lot of those areas that is gaining entry and exit.

722
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 2: That's yeah, yeah, yeah.

723
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: You talked about this entry and exit thing a few

724
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 1: times as well, and I heard you you mentioned this summer.

725
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: I can't remember where I heard this, but you mentioned

726
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: that you had been studying a little bit of the

727
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: impact of different kinds of entry and exits and that

728
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: you found that the well, let me let me take

729
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: a step back and describe two approaches. And you guys

730
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: were discussing this, but I have often thought to myself, well,

731
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: should I try the really sneaky and slow way to

732
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: get into my tree stand? Or should I try to

733
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: rip the band aid approach off? Which is like, you know,

734
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: imagine a frosty cold morning in November when there's no

735
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: wind and the leaves are so crunchy, and every single

736
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: step you take seems to echo for a mile. I

737
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: just hate those mornings getting in because you just know it.

738
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: It seems like every deer in a mile or two

739
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: must hear you walking in. So I've sometimes thought, on

740
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: those days, maybe I should just sprint to my tree stand,

741
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: rip the bandit off, be loud, but get it done

742
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: with in five minutes, rather than a slow and still

743
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: kind of loud forty five minutes. I heard you say

744
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 1: that you think the rip the band aid approach might

745
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: be better. Can you hear that right? Can you describe

746
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: what you saw and what you've learned about that?

747
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: So I've done a lot of research worth prefacing on

748
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: private land, and on a lot of the private lands.

749
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 3: A lot of these guys, they're gaining entry in it,

750
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 3: or you can gain entry an exit by use of tractor, truck, UTV,

751
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 3: et cetera. And in a private land scenario, the best

752
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 3: way to gain entry an exit, just a super fast

753
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 3: answer for it, is by whatever means you use to

754
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: travel that property. So if you use an ATV all

755
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 3: the time, have someone drop you off with an ATV.

756
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 3: Do you use a truck all the time, have someone

757
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 3: drop you off of the truck, And in that scenario,

758
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 3: you're you're gonna have extremely minimal impact. But if we

759
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 3: kick it back over to public land where maybe you

760
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 3: can't have a truck drop you off for a UTV,

761
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 3: then you're gonna have to be walking in And in

762
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 3: that scenario, I haven't documented it enough. I'm not sure

763
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 3: which podcast. Maybe i'd misspoken on it, but I haven't

764
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 3: recorded either of these events take place a lot. But

765
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 3: I have gone in and intentionally bumped here multiple times

766
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 3: by use of giving them your scent, or by use

767
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: of showing them that you're a human and really letting

768
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: them know that you're a human, or just kind of

769
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 3: trying to sneak up on them and bump them that way.

770
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: And I think I think that the brip the band

771
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: aid off approach is going to be the best because

772
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: you're running in, you're giving them something audible to hear

773
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 3: at that moment, so they're going to hear it, and

774
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 3: then they're going to kind of get a little bit

775
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: interested in it, and then they just see a blazing hunter,

776
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 3: you know, darting through the woods and kind of ducking

777
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 3: and dodging timber.

778
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: They're really not able to piece together that's human.

779
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 3: And if they're not able to piece together that's human,

780
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 3: they're just going to bump back off one hundred and

781
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 3: fifty to two hundred and fifty yards. And this is

782
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: in a scenaria where you would actually bump them. And

783
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: then by the time you get to your tree stand,

784
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 3: coast is clear, and then they'll they'll they'll they'll wrap

785
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 3: away for thirty minutes to an hour, and they're going

786
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 3: to be on super high alert and high high edge,

787
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 3: and they're going to be looking back in the direction

788
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 3: that the event had just taken place. But after thirty

789
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 3: minutes to an hour, if nothing's chasing them from what

790
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: I've seen, they cool right back down and it's as

791
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 3: if nothing ever happened. And then they just go right

792
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 3: back to kind of normal activity. And one of the

793
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 3: things that we're going to be studying this year actually,

794
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,439
Speaker 3: we've all probably seen the Zach Barrenbaugh kind of joke

795
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 3: of darting through the woods and popping a pop grun

796
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: trying to sound like a deer essentially running through the woods,

797
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: and we're going to try to record that this season

798
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 3: and see if that could be potentially the best way

799
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: to gain Andrey nexit. I think it would be hilarious

800
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,479
Speaker 3: to see like fifteen guys on public land all running

801
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 3: out the same time trying to sound like a deer.

802
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 3: That might not be the most applicable setting for this,

803
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: so hopefully, you know, I don't know how that's going

804
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 3: to work for public but I think if you were

805
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,959
Speaker 3: to run in and try to sound like a deer

806
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: and you're on the ground and you just immediately get

807
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 3: set up with your bow and you're able to actually

808
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: kind of sound like a mature buck running through the woods,

809
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 3: then I think you're gonna have to get ready to

810
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 3: shoot within like the next five minutes, because I would

811
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 3: I feel like I feel like at least he's going

812
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,240
Speaker 3: to move in on you and see what the crap's

813
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 3: going on so interesting.

814
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: So speaking of deer moving around and and moving from

815
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: where they were to where you are, I want to

816
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: I want to rewind just a little bit back to

817
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 1: some of the conventional wisdom of like what hunters believe

818
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: versus what the studies believe. And let's talk cold fronts.

819
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: Cold fronts are something that just we all seem to

820
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: experience it. We've we've felt those days that just seem

821
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: to be on fire, and oftentimes it's it's with that

822
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: cold front moving through. But the studies don't back it up.

823
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: I've seen in your work you described the numbers that

824
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: you are measuring maybe are different, and I'm curious that

825
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: they're different than what many of these other studies have

826
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: because I've often thought to myself, well, these studies aren't

827
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: finding something statistically significant about the total amount of distance traveled.

828
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: But maybe you know a little bit more movement a

829
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: little bit earlier is enough for it to matter for

830
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: a hunter, but it wouldn't show up in these studies.

831
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: I've seen you take a look at two different things,

832
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: one being like the total distance a deer has moved

833
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: in daylight. But then you've also looked at something you

834
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: call net displacement and how you've maybe value that as

835
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: a more important variable. Can you describe what net displacement

836
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: is and what you've seen with that. And I'm curious, like,

837
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: is there a higher net displacement when a cold front

838
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: does come through, or the day or two after a

839
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: cold front or anything like that. Might that showcase? Oh yeah,

840
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: there is an impact here possibly. I know you mentioned

841
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: you still haven't quite seen the correlation, but I'm just

842
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: curious if you've looked at that.

843
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

844
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: And one thing also to think about prior to mentioning

845
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 3: net displacement in relation to people seeing a higher priensity

846
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 3: of deer moving in a cold front and over the

847
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 3: cold front hents. It's if all you do is you

848
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 3: go out and you hunt those cold fronts, then naturally

849
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 3: you're going to see deer activity on cold fronts because

850
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 3: that's the time from that you're hunting. But as a hunter,

851
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 3: and probably likewise for many other people, you've hunted those

852
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 3: days prior to the cold front and not seen a

853
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 3: lot of activity, and then all of a sudden, the

854
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 3: cold front moves in, and that that's kind of where

855
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 3: that the idea comes from and stems from a little

856
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 3: bit more but still just worth noting. Is like, I

857
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 3: think there's a lot of hunters out there that are

858
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: probably trying to fine tune themselves around those high you know,

859
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: those high odd situations because they don't have the time

860
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: to go and hunt, and then they go out on

861
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 3: a cold front they see really peak in their mentality

862
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: activity and it's like, well, yeah, it's because that's the

863
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 3: day that you went out in the woods, so you're

864
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: gonna definitely yeah. And then you make that correlation with

865
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 3: it was the cold front or maybe maybe you were

866
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 3: waiting for that perfect moon phase or whatever and you

867
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 3: went out on that you know, that particular day and

868
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 3: then you saw deer movement, so it's like it was

869
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: because of the moon.

870
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: It's like, no, it's because you were in the woods.

871
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,240
Speaker 2: But anyways, back to well.

872
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 3: You said with net displacement, Yeah, net displacement I started

873
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: focusing on in the morning. In the morning, it's really

874
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 3: whenever you locate them where they're bedding, and then where

875
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: they move to and then bed back down. What's the

876
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: displacement between those two locations just in a straight line.

877
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: The straight line distance from point A to point b.

878
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 3: From point A to point B and then Likewise, for

879
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 3: the evening movement, what I was doing is whenever they

880
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 3: get out of their bed in the evening, so that's

881
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 3: point A, and then where they were shooting light ends

882
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: in most cases because a lot of cases they're still

883
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 3: on their feet going to the dark. So I would

884
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 3: mark all the way unto where shooting light ended for me,

885
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 3: and then that would be point B. And for this

886
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: to make it more appable for a hunter, I also

887
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 3: did continue to document until they bedded down in most cases,

888
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 3: but that's not appable for hunters, so I didn't I

889
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 3: don't include that. But anyways, Yeah, what I was noticing

890
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 3: was that in the morning time frame across the board

891
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 3: pre rut, post rut, late season, that morning activity, especially

892
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 3: in some individual characteristic bucks, but really the average, the

893
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 3: average out from all forty four year that I studied,

894
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 3: it's almost four times greater the amount of distance from

895
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 3: a net displacement versus their evening net displacement, and in

896
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 3: terms of total hours traveled and total total time traveled,

897
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: the morning is a little bit greater in my scenario,

898
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 3: but it's not a great enough difference worth talking about,

899
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 3: but it is. It is a little bit. You know,

900
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 3: they are traveling for a little bit longer during daylight

901
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 3: hours from what I've seen in the morning. And then

902
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 3: the last thing is total yards traveled. That where they're actually,

903
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 3: you know, every step they're taking and in total and

904
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 3: in terms of total yards travel, that numbers actually really

905
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 3: similar in the morning and the evening, because in the

906
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 3: evening they're still traveling that entire time, they're just walking

907
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 3: back and forth and browsing, and it just seems as

908
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 3: if they're a little bit more lazy. But their yards

909
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 3: per hour is pretty similar, and their total yards travel's

910
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: pretty similar, but their net displacement is way closer to

911
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 3: their to their betting location, whereas the or in the

912
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 3: morning it seems very missional driven, really very missional mindset,

913
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: where they had a determined location where they wanted to be,

914
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 3: and they're they're trying to intersect dough trails all along

915
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 3: that travel route and scent check as many as they can,

916
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 3: and then oftentimes for whatever reason, And I don't know

917
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 3: if there's a correlation with this yet, I don't think

918
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 3: I have a large enough sample size to really speak

919
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 3: and say that it's true. But for me, I was

920
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 3: seeing a lot of bucks hitting their scrapes, in particular rubs.

921
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 3: They just make rubs all the time. There was really

922
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 3: no especially in staging areas, rubs are extremely common, but scrapes.

923
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 3: I was seeing those being made, oftentimes at the end

924
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: of that morning travel route. And the only thing that

925
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 3: I've started thinking about off of that is maybe that's

926
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 3: why some guys try to You know, if you're hunting

927
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 3: near a scrape or over a scrape and you kill

928
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 3: a buck kind of like around ten am or ten

929
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 3: thirty am, and then you start placing it in your

930
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 3: brain that like, you killed him on a midday movement pattern.

931
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 3: In my opinion, you killed him at the end of

932
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 3: his morning travel route. You just picked him up at

933
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 3: the very tail end of it in that scenario. So

934
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 3: I think that's a lot more common than some people

935
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 3: might think, where bucks are moving deep into the morning

936
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: nine am to ten thirty am. And there's a lot

937
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 3: of people for me from like conventional hunting wisdom just

938
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 3: where I grew up, particularly in how I was taught.

939
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 3: You go out the morning, you hunt, that kind of

940
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 3: light comes up, et cetera all the way until about

941
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: eight eight thirty and it's like, all right, get out

942
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 3: of your stand and head back to the cabin. And

943
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 3: I think that's a pretty bad idea, and just based

944
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 3: off what I've seen, because I'm seeing a lot of

945
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 3: bucks almost always moved past nine am, but I've seen

946
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 3: them move all the way into like ten thirty ten

947
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: forty five am before betting back down. And like I said,

948
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 3: a lot of times those scrapes that were being made

949
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 3: happened to be And I don't know if there's a

950
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: correlation with that or as the orphan's just this particular

951
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 3: property but happen to be at the very end tail

952
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 3: end of that travel route.

953
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: Did you have any ability to under to know about

954
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: pre existing scrapes and if they were ever going to

955
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: visit scrapes? Like I guess what I'm getting at is

956
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 1: sometimes we think like bucks will go where, we wonder

957
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: will Bucks go out of their way to check a

958
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: scrape or are they going somewhere because they already want

959
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: to go somewhere, And if there happens to be a

960
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: scrape right there, they'll hit it or they'll happen to

961
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: swing down wind of it. I'm curious if you've found

962
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: anything related to that.

963
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually a really good question.

964
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 3: I haven't had anybody asking that question yet, and it's

965
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 3: probably something I need to bring up more often, because

966
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,479
Speaker 3: I think that I have noticed mature bucks. And once again,

967
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 3: I think the sample size is probably too small to

968
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 3: say for sure, but there are some bucks that I

969
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 3: have where I know their home range probably too will

970
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 3: like I really know where they bed, I know where

971
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: they move, I know where they frequent and then all

972
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 3: of a sudden, I would be going out to find

973
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: this particular buck and he would be outside of that

974
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 3: home range, kind of off in a different direction, and he's

975
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 3: kind of walking this and oftentimes it happened in the morning,

976
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 3: but he would be walking this somewhat semi straight line,

977
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 3: just a more missional morning travel route, and at the

978
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 3: end of it, he would make it to a scrape

979
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 3: where you had to think he knew where that scrape was.

980
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 2: He didn't just run into that scrape.

981
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 3: He walked out of his way, like you said, to

982
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 3: get to that particular scrape location, hit the scrape, moved

983
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 3: off of it, betted down for a while, and then

984
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 3: moved right back into his home range after that. So

985
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 3: I definitely think there's something to be tapped into on

986
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 3: that topic.

987
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: Interesting. So you were just discussing how there's maybe more

988
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: morning movement than a lot of hunters. Give these bucks

989
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: credit for two questions for me coming out of that One,

990
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: was that consistent throughout the year or was that just

991
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: during their rut or during a certain portion of the year.

992
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: That's that's question number one.

993
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that was consistent from really whenever bucks split

994
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 3: from their bachelor groups all the way unto the end

995
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 3: of season. And I think whenever you make it into

996
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 3: late season kind of from my area, that would be

997
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 3: December twentieth, twenty fifth and then onward into January. I

998
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 3: think whenever you make it into late season, it starts

999
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 3: to become a bit more of an individual characteristic. Because

1000
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 3: I had some bucks, some mature bucks that would just

1001
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: settle back down and they became really calm, and their

1002
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 3: home ranges shrunk dramatically, and they were really focusing kind

1003
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 3: of on themselves, browsing on acorns, drinking water, not really

1004
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 3: going out and sent chicking does. And then I had

1005
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 3: some bucks that were lunatics the entire season, and they

1006
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: just continue to travel all the way across the property

1007
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 3: every single day in the morning, and they never cooled off.

1008
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 3: So I think that in the late season in particular,

1009
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 3: that can become really an individual characteristic. But across the

1010
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: kind of pre rut timeframe, peak rut, post rut, and

1011
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 3: even into that like maybe lateish late rut time frame,

1012
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 3: then you're you're still gonna see more movement in the morning.

1013
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 3: And even on the bucks where they did shrink their

1014
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 3: home range, it's like, for I have one really good

1015
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 3: example where he shrunk into an eighty acre home range,

1016
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:16,919
Speaker 3: and he was very consistently inside of that eighty acre

1017
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 3: home range. The only time he left that eighty acre

1018
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 3: home range was in the morning, and in those morning

1019
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,959
Speaker 3: travel routes, it was just as if he was making

1020
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: a pre rep you know, post rep peak ret type

1021
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 3: of movement. His yards per hour traveled was identical. They met,

1022
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 3: the type of terrain that he was walking, and how

1023
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 3: it was trained driven in the semi straight line and

1024
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 3: path that he was taking. It was almost identical to

1025
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 3: those early season or to the you know, kind of

1026
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 3: pre rep post rut peakret timeframes. But he was doing

1027
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,280
Speaker 3: it in the late season and he was being marked

1028
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 3: by me as a very sedentary Bucks. He's living in

1029
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 3: such a tight range, but he still did every once

1030
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 3: in a while. I think I think I recorded him

1031
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 3: doing it four or five times, leave that small home

1032
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 3: range to go out and check for intersect dough trails

1033
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 3: all along that way, and it every time it happened

1034
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 3: in the morning.

1035
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: When it came to you know, outside of this uh

1036
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: checking for does the long morning movements of the late

1037
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: morning movements is this My first instinct was like, Oh,

1038
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: this must have all happened in deep like sanctuary bedding

1039
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: cover and people just don't see that because they're usually

1040
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: not hunting in that back there in the thick stuff. So, yes,

1041
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: these deer are still moving, but it's you know, deep

1042
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: in these safe places. Is that true? Or was this

1043
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: late morning activity happening in maybe surprising places.

1044
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, most of the times it was happening in surprising places.

1045
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 3: But I think that a lot of the properties for

1046
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 3: my area where I'm researching, there's a ton of mature timber.

1047
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 3: And it's like, in terms of thinking from the mindset

1048
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 3: of like deep thick, you know type cover, we don't

1049
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:51,959
Speaker 3: really have a lot of areas that have deep thick

1050
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 3: type cover because there's not a lot of a lot

1051
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 3: of guys going out and doing a you know, heavy

1052
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 3: TSI and then you know, doing controlled burns in the

1053
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 3: timber to be able to make those areas really and

1054
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 3: green and thick. We just have a ton of really old,

1055
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: mature timber in this area. So you know, I guess

1056
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 3: that's probably a bad question for me to be able

1057
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 3: to answer at the moment because I just haven't been

1058
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 3: able to be in a type of train where there

1059
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 3: is truly that you know, betting sanctuary type thing. But

1060
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 3: I definitely have properties this season where I'll be going

1061
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 3: in different states that are going to.

1062
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 2: Have that type of habitat interesting.

1063
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, after having watched forty four different Bucks for hundreds

1064
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: of hours, do you lean more towards oh Bucks or

1065
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: all individuals and they do a lot of things that

1066
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: are just unique personality type things or is it more well, yeah,

1067
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that are almost like rules.

1068
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: They do this, they do that. There are strong trends.

1069
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: Where are you leaning more towards now or what's that

1070
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: percent split if you had to say, well, it's like

1071
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: forty percent predictable and sixty percent. Man, every Buck's different. Yeah,

1072
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: do you have any sense of that after looking at

1073
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:56,919
Speaker 1: this data?

1074
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that it really heavily leans towards

1075
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 3: the individual buck characteristics. I think that in particular, mature bucks,

1076
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 3: if you backed it off from ature bucks and you

1077
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 3: started looking at younger deer kind of two three year

1078
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 3: old bucks, maybe even four year old bucks, but I

1079
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 3: think that they're going to get shoved off into the

1080
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 3: mature side of things in terms of individual behavior, especially

1081
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 3: during pre rut and peak rut and post runt and

1082
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 3: then dough groups and whatnot. I think dough groups, for sure,

1083
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 3: you can lean that back towards the side of like

1084
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 3: they're not really that individual they all kind of do

1085
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 3: the same thing. And then younger deer they're kind of

1086
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 3: leaned on the they all kind of do the same thing.

1087
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 3: And it seems like they're really curious into mature bucks,

1088
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 3: by the ways, which is maybe something if you want

1089
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 3: to do, we could get into. But mature bucks in particular,

1090
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 3: they seem to all be very individualistic in terms of

1091
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 3: how they behave, and I'd seen that across the board,

1092
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 3: and I think almost every GPS color study that's been

1093
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 3: done in the past it kind of backs that as well,

1094
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 3: saying that individual buck behavior is extremely common and that's

1095
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 3: kind of the standard for mature bucks.

1096
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 1: So what have you seen with these young being curious,

1097
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: because I've seen a few of your videos where there'll

1098
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: be these bachelor groups of young bucks that go and

1099
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: like almost seek out the big old buck and kind

1100
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: of bump him or butt or bug him. Is this

1101
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: is this a consistent thing you've seen and b having

1102
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,919
Speaker 1: If that's the case, is there any way to take

1103
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: advantage of that? Is there anything that a hunter can

1104
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: use with that knowledge?

1105
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1106
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't thought about it from the hunter's perspective,

1107
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 3: where if you're seeing young bucks move through the timber,

1108
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 3: how they might be potentially trying to seek out that

1109
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 3: mature buck for you, I haven't thought of that yet.

1110
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 3: That's a pretty good idea, but yeah, now I've definitely

1111
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 3: seen them intentionally seek out mature bucks, whether it's in

1112
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 3: the peak rut time frame, post rut late season, like

1113
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 3: a in a peak rut time frame, you'll have a

1114
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: scenario where a buck has mature buck has a dough

1115
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 3: kind of vetted, and she off down and what would

1116
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,959
Speaker 3: be a thicker area from my area, and then he's

1117
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,879
Speaker 3: betted within fifteen to twenty yards of her, just kind

1118
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 3: of pending and waiting and backed off from him. Thirty

1119
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 3: to fifty yards away, there's like three or four younger

1120
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 3: bucks all just kind of like waiting in line or

1121
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 3: sitting back to observe and watch what event's about to

1122
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 3: take place. I don't know if it's like a if

1123
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 3: it's a learning situation, or what all they're exactly doing.

1124
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,760
Speaker 3: But I've also heard from some perspective, and I haven't

1125
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 3: recorded this yet, and I would love to, or if

1126
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 3: somebody else could, where there's an idea whenever there's there's

1127
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 3: twins in a particular dough, that it's actually two bucks

1128
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 3: breeding that one dough, And in this scenario, it would

1129
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 3: potentially make sense where the mature buck would move in

1130
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 3: and breed that particular dough at that time and then

1131
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 3: move off, and then one of those younger bucks, potentially

1132
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 3: the most dominant out of that group that's kind of

1133
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 3: sitting back on the bench waiting, they step up to

1134
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 3: the plate and they kind of went out the fight,

1135
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 3: and then they take over and then they potentially breed

1136
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 3: that exact same doe again. And that's how sometimes twins

1137
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 3: are able to come from that. And that's something I've

1138
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 3: heard from guys like Bronson and others that have asked

1139
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 3: me whether or not I've recorded that, and no, I haven't,

1140
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 3: but I think that would be a really cool thing

1141
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 3: to be able to capture, and that might be what's

1142
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 3: taking place there. But I've also seen the peak rut

1143
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 3: where a mature buck will be bedded in his kind

1144
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 3: of in his morning bed at the end of his

1145
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 3: travel house, so there's his midday bed, and a younger

1146
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 3: buck will move in on him, and in my opinion,

1147
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 3: in that scenario from what I've seen a lot, the

1148
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 3: mature buck generally doesn't like to be messed with, but

1149
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 3: sometimes and take their bucks. I've seen where they let

1150
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 3: the younger buck move in next to him and he'll

1151
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 3: bed down five yards away, and they'll just stay bedded

1152
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 3: next to each other for that entire midday time frame,

1153
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:30,720
Speaker 3: and then they'll get up together and oftentimes the mature

1154
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 3: buck gets him up, which is a really fascinating thing

1155
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 3: to watch where and some people have probably seen this

1156
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 3: in the early season whenever bucks are bachelored up where

1157
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 3: if they're all bedded out, you know, kind of beyond

1158
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 3: an aggfield, the big one will get up and he'll

1159
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 3: kind of walk over and get the other bucks up

1160
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 3: onto their feet. I've seen this in peak rut timeframe

1161
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 3: with a mature buck and a young buck, where the

1162
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 3: mature buck will walk over to him, get him up

1163
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 3: on his feet, and then they both kind of sit

1164
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 3: there for fifteen to twenty minutes and just clean one

1165
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 3: another in the middle of peak rut. And I watched

1166
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 3: that and my brain just kind of is, like, what

1167
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,399
Speaker 3: relation do you guys have in the past that's causing

1168
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 3: you to be able to have You know, he is

1169
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 3: very uncommon from what I've seen, but I have seen

1170
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 3: it happen multiple times. And then going to the end

1171
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 3: of the late season, you have a scenario where a

1172
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 3: mature buck like the main one that I recorded last

1173
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 3: season that I call Winter Big Main Forrin ten, he's

1174
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 3: six or seven years old, where he traveled individual on

1175
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 3: his own almost all the time, and there were quite

1176
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 3: a few scenarios where he would be bedded next to

1177
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 3: a staging area next to food or food source or

1178
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 3: something where he's going to make his evening travel route

1179
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 3: and bucks that are down wind of him will move

1180
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 3: in on him in a bachelor group of like five

1181
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 3: to ten bucks in some cases.

1182
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:43,280
Speaker 2: I think the biggest one I seen.

1183
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 3: Was nine or ten, and they will move right up

1184
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 3: into his bedding area and get him onto his feet,

1185
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 3: and then oftentimes, for this particular year, he didn't enjoy

1186
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 3: that at all, Versus the other one where he kind

1187
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 3: of seemed like he was being a teacher. This one

1188
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:56,959
Speaker 3: was kind of a jerk, and he'd pin his ears

1189
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 3: back and let them all know that he was about

1190
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 3: to plant them all but if they didn't.

1191
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 2: Move out of his way types of situation.

1192
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 3: But yeah, no, it seems like younger bucks are even

1193
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 3: four year olds, are highly curious into what that most

1194
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 3: dominant buck in the area is doing.

1195
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: Did you notice anything unique about how the dominant buck

1196
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: in the area would bed or travel compared to the

1197
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: whole rest of the buck herd in that zone. Was

1198
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: there anything like, oh, yeah, the top buck would always

1199
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: get this spot where the top buck would always come

1200
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: in last, or any of those things that sometimes we believe.

1201
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I, as a hunter, I feel like there has

1202
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 3: to be something in relation to that, but I haven't

1203
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 3: been able to see a massive correlation. I mentally, I

1204
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 3: feel like he since he is the dominant buck, he's

1205
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 3: probably claiming the best zones that in that particular area.

1206
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 3: But then I've seen him in situations where quite a

1207
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 3: few mature bucks will bed down in an area that

1208
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 3: puts them at a complete disadvantage from a me being

1209
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 3: a hunter perspective, and it's like, why are you in

1210
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 3: that location? Maybe maybe he's not in as much of

1211
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,439
Speaker 3: a disadvantage as I think, but from what I see,

1212
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 3: I think that he's in a complete disadvantage based off

1213
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 3: of where he's going to probably move in that evening

1214
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 3: travel route. And uh, that's that's one thing I've seen.

1215
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 3: But no, I would like to think that mature bucks,

1216
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 3: definitely the dominant buck in the area kind of gets

1217
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 3: to pick the best location that he that he wants

1218
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 3: to be in. But I think there's some scenarios where

1219
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 3: whenever they're moving back into their evening bed or to

1220
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 3: their midday bed or whatever, where they just sometimes they

1221
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 3: just get kind of exhausted, kind of in that post

1222
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 3: rud or late red timeframe, and they just bed back

1223
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 3: down wherever they are. It's like, screw this, I'm getting

1224
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 3: off my feet.

1225
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: So these bucks that you got to know over the year,

1226
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:44,959
Speaker 1: would you say that most of them you could eventually

1227
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 1: like write a bio of, like a summary of like Okay, winter,

1228
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: he likes to do X, Y and Z, and pretty

1229
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: consistently he's gonna do X Y or Z, and then

1230
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: the six by five he's usually going to do X

1231
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: Y or Z. And you kind of know that. Is

1232
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: that the case with all the bucks that you studied

1233
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: very well, that eventually you could pattern them to some

1234
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: degree or were there some deer that were just random

1235
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 1: deer like their personality trait was they throw a dart

1236
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: at the wall and they're going to do something different

1237
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: every day. You can never correlate it to anything. Was

1238
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: there one of those or other one or the other

1239
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: of those more common?

1240
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is something that I tried to do pretty

1241
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 3: consistently throughout the season because I actually have a video

1242
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 3: idea going into this season where I'm going to try

1243
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 3: to pattern the buck and then go out and hunt

1244
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,959
Speaker 3: him with my wildlife camera and see if i can get,

1245
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 3: you know, within sub thirty yards of him in a

1246
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 3: hunting situation and take pictures of him in video them,

1247
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 3: et cetera. And I think that it's actually going to

1248
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 3: be a lot harder than most people think. Andre where

1249
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: the advantage comes in more for the hunter side of things,

1250
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 3: isn't as much being able to predict these deer, because

1251
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 3: very few times was I was I able to see

1252
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 3: where a buck was betted and then say, for sure

1253
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 3: he's going to be making this move, which I all.

1254
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I st trying to do that a lot

1255
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 3: of bed for if it's what's that you start now?

1256
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: Oh I just said, I'd imagine that I would be

1257
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: tempted to do that a lot, Like you walked with

1258
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: the steers and like, Okay, where's he gonna go? I

1259
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: think he'll be here. Did you play that little game

1260
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: with yourself a lot?

1261
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 3: Sorry you cut out again on that. You're really e

1262
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 3: stat Okay, I think you're better now though.

1263
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: Sorry. I was just I was asking if you had,

1264
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, played that game yourself, like Okay, he's betted here,

1265
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess he's gonna go to this field tonight

1266
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: or whatever.

1267
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1268
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I played that game all the time because whenever

1269
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 3: you sit there and you watch a buck bed for

1270
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 3: four hours, like you constantly thoughts are going through your

1271
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 3: head that entire time. And sometimes I'd put on a

1272
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 3: podcast or something so I could learn something else other

1273
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 3: than sitting and thinking about why this year is betted

1274
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 3: in that particular location. But oh yeah, every single time

1275
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 3: I watched one bed throughout the middle of the day,

1276
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 3: I would I would try to make guess as to

1277
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 3: what he was going to be doing. And I feel

1278
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 3: like in most cases I was probably wrong, I just

1279
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 3: but and also even in the scenarios where I was right,

1280
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 3: oftentimes I would be wrong in terms of how he

1281
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 3: was going to do it and the specific route that

1282
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 3: he was going to take to get there. So yeah,

1283
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 3: I think I think even even with a thermal drone

1284
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 3: patterning one and trying to really narrow down on exactly

1285
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 3: what he's going to do every single day and every

1286
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 3: single move, I think it's still a pretty difficult thing

1287
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 3: to do. But in terms of utilizing that scenario where

1288
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 3: you watch a buck for as much as I have

1289
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 3: and then being able to position yourself in a high

1290
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 3: odds hunting situation, I think you can definitely do that

1291
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 3: because of train driven type features where you see he's

1292
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 3: being forced to travel, and whenever you start to piece

1293
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 3: together those areas where he's being forced to travel, then

1294
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 3: you just go hit hunt these areas on high high

1295
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 3: odd situations and oh yeah, no, it'll make you it

1296
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 3: dramatically better. Hunter. I think there's a couple of spots

1297
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 3: on the property that I could one hundred percent guarantee

1298
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 3: if I sat there for five days undetected in these

1299
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 3: locations during the kind of pre rut or post rut timeframe,

1300
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 3: that there's no way I wouldn't kill mature buck in

1301
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 3: those areas, which is actually kind of sad because to me,

1302
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 3: it makes it to where I can't hunt that property

1303
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 3: that I grew up on my whole life, and that's

1304
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 3: the main property I did research on.

1305
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 2: But that's just the way that I feel.

1306
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 3: I don't I don't think that it's ethical at this

1307
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 3: point because I've seen with the drone exactly how these

1308
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 3: deer are train driven on this property. I don't feel

1309
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 3: like it's ethical at that point to go out and

1310
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 3: sit in those locations. But in terms of actually truly

1311
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 3: patterning one, I think it's a lot harder than people think.

1312
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: So if you were, well, when most people think about

1313
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: trying to pattern a deer, I think they are usually

1314
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: thinking about two different things, or using two different sets

1315
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: of variables. One they're going to take like their own

1316
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: observations of that deer and trying to learn something from that,

1317
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: and then Number two and probably the thing most people

1318
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: lean on the most these days, it's trail cameras. People

1319
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: love to look at trail camera data and use that

1320
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: to pattern a deer or attempt to pattern a deer,

1321
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: especially these days with sell cameras and people getting a

1322
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: picture of a buck in there this morning, they make Okay,

1323
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to hunt them tonight there, et cetera. You've explored,

1324
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: at least preliminarily in some of your videos how effective

1325
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: trail cameras may or may not be with patterning deer.

1326
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 1: Can you walk me through what you found as far

1327
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: as like what the actual efficacy of these cameras actually are.

1328
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 1: Are they really as effective of patterning tools we think

1329
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 1: or maybe not?

1330
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think they're near as effective as a

1331
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 3: lot of people think, especially in the way that it's

1332
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 3: at least the people that I know personally that utilize

1333
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 3: them and the level at which they rely on them,

1334
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 3: I don't think that they're near as effective as they believe.

1335
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 3: In that that probably correlates with why, you know, when

1336
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 3: they were younger and they were going out and just

1337
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 3: hunting these high odd scenarios and high odd situations and

1338
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 3: really good locations they were having more success, and then

1339
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 3: all of a sudden they started becoming reliant and really

1340
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 3: emotionally driven off of these trail cameras and what they're

1341
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 3: being what's being sent to you in the morning, like

1342
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 3: you think about it from the perspective of a hunter.

1343
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 3: And this is one thing I started noticing with this

1344
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 3: trail cam study that I did where you know, in

1345
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,919
Speaker 3: the evening timeframe of particular, I saw this a lot

1346
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 3: because we had a lot of acorns and deer were

1347
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 3: browsing in the woods a lot where I had the

1348
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 3: trail cameras where I would see with my drone thirty

1349
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 3: plus deer all moving through the timber in right next

1350
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 3: to this camera, within one hundred yards of it, and

1351
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 3: I would get a trail cam picture of two, three,

1352
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 3: maybe four deer but in that scenario in and none

1353
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 3: of them were mature, none of them were even bucks.

1354
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 3: And often cases there were just groups of dose because

1355
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 3: we have a kind of does But from a hunter's perspective,

1356
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: if you receive that trail cam picture, especially me in

1357
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 3: the past, I would view it and go, Okay, well,

1358
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 3: the woods are kind of dead this evening, like not

1359
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 3: that much activity, but if you were out in the

1360
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 3: woods that day, you would have seen almost thirty deer

1361
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 3: if you were if you went undetected, and it would

1362
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 3: have been like the woods were popping off that entire timeframe.

1363
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 3: And that kind of goes back to the you know,

1364
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 3: the cold front idea of cold front moving in, then

1365
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 3: you only hunting those peak timeframes, and that's whenever you're

1366
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 3: seeing a lot of activity. It's like it's just because

1367
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 3: you put yourself in the woods and you saw a

1368
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 3: lot of activity. It's really hard to really narrow that

1369
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 3: down on one particular variable that's causing that than to

1370
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 3: take place. So yeah, in terms of trail camera effectiveness though,

1371
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 3: I just I think people really especially on a private

1372
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 3: land scenario, but kind of across the board, you need.

1373
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 2: To take it for what it is.

1374
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 3: Is So if you get a picture of a mature

1375
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,120
Speaker 3: buck then and maybe a target animal that you're wanting

1376
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 3: to really go out and potentually hunt, then take it

1377
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 3: for the fact that he is alive and he's out there,

1378
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 3: he's kind of in that area and maybe that's part

1379
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 3: of his home range, and kind of hunt based off

1380
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 3: of the fact of all the variables that you know

1381
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 3: as a hunter, and from infield scouting and from infield

1382
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 3: you know, activity that you're able to find versus that

1383
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 3: individual trail camp picture, I think the only scenario that

1384
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 3: you can really and there may be some more, especially

1385
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 3: if you're on like fifty on one ridge, and then

1386
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 3: I think in that scenario, like sure, yeah, you might

1387
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:47,920
Speaker 3: you might be able to start patterning a deer at

1388
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,440
Speaker 3: that point, because your bank account might not like it,

1389
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 3: but you might be able to start pattern on. But

1390
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 3: is trying to utilize the trail camera to determine buck

1391
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 3: behavior because, like we talked about earlier, bucks are individuals

1392
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 3: and that's kind of across the board.

1393
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 2: Everyone's seen it.

1394
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 3: And if you can utilize a trail camera to get

1395
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 3: pictures of a deer say a mile and a half apart,

1396
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 3: or even if you just have neighbors, so like say

1397
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 3: you have forty acres and you get in the know

1398
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 3: with all of your neighbors and they start getting pictures

1399
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 3: of that buck on their property, but they're a mile

1400
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 3: away and you guys are getting pictures pretty consistently. That

1401
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 3: buck probably falls into a very highly mobile, highly active

1402
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 3: kind of category. And you can use that to your

1403
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 3: advantage by knowing that you can go and hunt these

1404
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 3: situations that are potentially terrain driven if you have terrain

1405
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 3: and get lucky at some point. But if you're only

1406
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 3: getting a picture of a buck and you're really small

1407
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 3: core area and it starts to seem like you know,

1408
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 3: you might start narrowing down on his home range. A

1409
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 3: great example I've seen this with was Bill Wink, which

1410
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 3: not only did he utilize trail cameras, but he also

1411
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:54,440
Speaker 3: was in the field all the time because it's what

1412
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 3: he does. But still he was able to narrow down

1413
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 3: that this one particular buck lived in such a small

1414
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 3: home range, and once he realized that, he used it

1415
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 3: to his advantage. Instead of going in and hunting right

1416
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 3: in his core area and pushing him out and stressing

1417
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 3: that deer out, he was able to fringe hunt that

1418
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 3: particular deer's location. And at some point, kind of like

1419
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:15,919
Speaker 3: I said with the it was a six by five,

1420
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 3: he lived in that core eighty acres. At some point

1421
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 3: he decided to move outside of that small home range,

1422
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 3: and whenever he did, Bill got lucky and he was

1423
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:24,600
Speaker 3: in the right spot and he was able to get

1424
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 3: a shot on him. So and he probably moved out

1425
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 3: more often than what Bill had seen. He just that's

1426
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:31,560
Speaker 3: kind of in that particular location that Bill happened to

1427
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:35,080
Speaker 3: position himself. But that's a I think that's a use

1428
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 3: case where you can use one is trying to identify

1429
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 3: the individual, characteristic type behavior of that vigor.

1430
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 1: So it seems though that if we were to break

1431
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 1: two overall schools of thought, if we were to break

1432
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 1: kind of the hunting community into two schools thought on

1433
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: killing bucks, there's one school of thought that is, like

1434
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,439
Speaker 1: they want to aggressively punch in and take a killing

1435
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 1: strike on a buck when they think it's the right moment,

1436
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: Like they think this special set of circumstances, the cold front,

1437
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: plus I got a trail camera picture of him in

1438
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 1: here last night, plus the winds just right, so I

1439
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: think he's gonna take this route. He's going to be

1440
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,720
Speaker 1: at this little inside corner on this night, so I'm

1441
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 1: gonna punch in there and kill him. That's one approach

1442
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: that some people take, and they might be very selective

1443
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: about how many days they hunt because of that. So

1444
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: they're gonna hunt the four perfect days in the four

1445
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:38,600
Speaker 1: perfect spots. That's guy A, Guy B is what I

1446
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 1: think you're describing, which is someone who says, well, actually,

1447
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hunt a lot because these deer are pretty

1448
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: darn random, so I'm gonna have it's a numbers game,

1449
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: So I've got to be out there fifteen times to

1450
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 1: finally get one time when our paths intersect. But I'm

1451
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: gonna do it in a place that I know is

1452
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: a very safe for me as a hunter, so I'm

1453
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 1: not detected, so I can get away with hunting fifteen

1454
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: times and be in a place where terrain of some

1455
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: kind is going to disproportionately funnel deer traffic through here.

1456
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 1: So eventually, you know, even though I can never predict

1457
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: what this buck's going to do on any given day,

1458
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: I can predict that at least once within these fifteen

1459
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 1: days he will come through here. And if you can

1460
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: do that, you will kill that buck that might be

1461
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 1: Guy B. Do you think that A or B is

1462
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 1: the better approach based on what you have seen with

1463
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: your own.

1464
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 3: Rise, Yeah, I think it's I think it kind of

1465
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 3: depends on you and the properties that you're hunting. If

1466
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 3: if your Guy A, then you probably know your area

1467
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 3: like the back of your hand.

1468
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 2: You know you've hunted that area before.

1469
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 3: You know, how do you have to travel it and

1470
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 3: you can position yourself in those scenarios that you believe,

1471
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,640
Speaker 3: in your opinion, you know, make you the highest odd hunter. So,

1472
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 3: whether it's in relation to moon phase, cold front, et cetera,

1473
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 3: then you go out and hunt on those particular days,

1474
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 3: and being that you know that property so well, it's

1475
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 3: probably going to position you in a pretty good location,

1476
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 3: especially since you're going to fine tune when you're hunting,

1477
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 3: Like say you're they want to hunt that area kind

1478
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 3: of a you know, late October early November from my area,

1479
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 3: so pre rut. Anytime you can be in the woods

1480
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 3: in a pretty undetectable location in a high travel area

1481
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 3: in the pre rut, it's probably going to be a

1482
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 3: good time to be in the woods. So I would agree, Yeah,

1483
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 3: going out on that high odd situation, maybe even correlating

1484
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 3: it with a cold front and the moon phase, et cetera,

1485
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 3: you're gonna put yourself in a great spot. But I'd

1486
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 3: like to think the guys that are having success with

1487
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 3: that strategy of only going out four times, et.

1488
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 2: Cetera, they really have their system dial.

1489
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 3: And then the other side of that is if you're

1490
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 3: somebody that's just very aggressive, and you're going into these

1491
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,680
Speaker 3: public land scenarios where maybe you're only going to be

1492
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 3: able to hunt that state for a couple of days

1493
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 3: or five days, maybe two days, and you have to

1494
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 3: go in and just be hyper aggressive in that scenario.

1495
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 3: I think that it makes sense to be able to

1496
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 3: do that as well. And in that situation, you're probably

1497
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 3: going in and you're looking for extremely fresh buck sign

1498
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 3: and then you're hunting over that extremely fresh buck sign.

1499
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:56,639
Speaker 3: But I guess in that scenario, you're really not waiting

1500
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:59,600
Speaker 3: for the correct conditions. You're just you're just kind of

1501
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 3: full seen. So it's really not you're you're kind of

1502
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 3: like a guy see. I think maybe yeah, but yeah,

1503
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:06,799
Speaker 3: and then then guy B I think is the greatest,

1504
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,360
Speaker 3: greatest hunting approach if you have the time availability to

1505
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 3: do it, if you can, I mean, yeah, the more

1506
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 3: times you get out in the woods and that you're

1507
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 3: undetected consistently and you're hunting in these really good locations,

1508
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 3: you're you're going to just continue to up your percentage

1509
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 3: of seeing that mature back every single time barring that

1510
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 3: you're undetected, you know, pretty consistently. I do think that

1511
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,680
Speaker 3: there's a room for you know, the whole idea of

1512
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 3: being undetected on entry and exit. I like I said

1513
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 3: with utilizing UTVs on private land or trucks, et cetera,

1514
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 3: that that's definitely a great way of doing it of

1515
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 3: constantly pushing out the deer of the area that you're

1516
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 3: in so that way you can gain entry and exit

1517
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 3: without them really knowing that there's a human in there.

1518
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 3: But I think that's the most important part is is

1519
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 3: trying to be even if like say you're walking into

1520
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 3: your tree stand and there's a dough just bedded like

1521
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 3: ten yards in front of your tree stand and you

1522
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 3: spot her before she spots you, trying to get her

1523
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 3: to bump out of that spot, or maybe just don't

1524
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:01,720
Speaker 3: go hunt that tree stand, but if you feel like

1525
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 3: you have to be in that spot for whatever reason,

1526
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 3: try to bump her out of that spot without her

1527
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,759
Speaker 3: knowing that you were a human. Just act like anything

1528
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:10,759
Speaker 3: in the woods and just crawl around on the ground

1529
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 3: and try to look like a gigantic armadillo or something

1530
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 3: to where she has no idea what you were, and

1531
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 3: she'll bump away fifty to one hundred and fifty yards

1532
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 3: for doze, especially because they seem to be a little

1533
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 3: more curious than bucks in some cases. But and then

1534
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 3: you just rush to your stand and get up, and

1535
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 3: she'll probably be back in the area and try to

1536
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 3: figure out what you were. But if you were an

1537
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 3: advantage where you have thermost your advantage or the wind

1538
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 3: to your advantage in an area that she's not gonna

1539
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 3: be able to detect you, then you should be able

1540
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 3: to remain undetective in that scenario. But now I think

1541
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:40,679
Speaker 3: there's a lot of different situations that you can craft

1542
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 3: up in your brain.

1543
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 2: I can run down a rabbit hole pretty quick on that.

1544
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: So this gets me thinking about another topic, which is,

1545
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:54,759
Speaker 1: you know how dear movement and behavior changes throughout the season.

1546
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 1: And we have a whole set of kind of conventional

1547
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,719
Speaker 1: wisdom around this. Like I could tell you, I could,

1548
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: I could give you a one minute. I'll tell you

1549
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:04,880
Speaker 1: right now. If I were to say, if a new

1550
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 1: hunter came to me and they're like, hey, how does

1551
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 1: a buck behave? How does buck behavior change throughout the year?

1552
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: I might say, well, uh, you know, in the summer,

1553
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 1: he's on the standard bedding to feeding pattern, he's pretty comfortable,

1554
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: he's going to move in daylight in the evening, you know,

1555
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: as he goes out to feed, they're pretty visible. That

1556
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: might continue into the first handful of days of the

1557
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:25,719
Speaker 1: hunting season. That's a great time to kill a buck.

1558
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, the hunting pressure has

1559
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: an impact on him. They they start being much more

1560
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: you know, risk averse. They're going to be back in

1561
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 1: the cover more. They're not gonna move quite as much

1562
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 1: in daylight. Uh. Some people might tell you there's an

1563
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: October lull. Some might say it's a hunting pressure impact.

1564
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: Some might say it's changing habitat. But things tend to

1565
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:45,720
Speaker 1: slow down a little bit. And then we ease into

1566
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 1: late October and the pre rut gets closer and closer,

1567
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:50,200
Speaker 1: and then that ramps up, and then he gets to November,

1568
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: then there's the rut, and then there's all the chaos YadA, YadA, YadA,

1569
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: And then we go into the late season and deer

1570
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 1: get back on their feeding patterns. But they maybe are

1571
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 1: more risk averse because they've been hunted for three months.

1572
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 1: But when you get that really good cold front or

1573
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 1: big snow event or whatever it is, man, they can

1574
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 1: really get out there on those good food sources. So

1575
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: that's like my sixty second over generalized over bee of

1576
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:15,679
Speaker 1: deer movement, right, a buck activity. What have you seen

1577
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 1: as you watched forty four different bucks live out a

1578
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: hunting season themselves that was either right in line with

1579
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 1: the conventional wisdom on buck behavior throughout the season or

1580
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 1: surprising from that, Like, was there a period of the

1581
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: year where like, oh wow, everyone says that in mid

1582
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 1: October their movement goes down, but it didn't, or everyone

1583
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 1: says that in the early season, whatever, did anything like

1584
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:41,879
Speaker 1: that stand out that was a surprise.

1585
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that one thing that is really useful

1586
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 3: to apply to conventional wisdom is what took place throughout

1587
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:52,760
Speaker 3: the summer and the spring in your particular area. So

1588
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 3: if you went through a heavy drought like my areas

1589
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 3: this year, that's going to dramatically affect the way that

1590
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 3: deer act throughout that you know, the course of the

1591
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 3: generalization that you just made. Whereas last season we had

1592
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 3: a lot of rain, so they had a lot of

1593
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,440
Speaker 3: available forbs and a lot of a ton of acorns,

1594
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 3: which that's kind of seasonal dependent, but still there was

1595
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 3: a ton of acorns last season, and we had a

1596
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 3: lot of native brows on the ground, and that kind

1597
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:18,720
Speaker 3: of dramatically changes the way that they're going to go

1598
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 3: throughout the early season. And then you know, during the

1599
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 3: during i'd say right up against the peak rut and

1600
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 3: then peak rut and post rut. I think you're going

1601
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,559
Speaker 3: to see consistent types of movement patterns. But the one

1602
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 3: interesting thing about the peak rut is that even though

1603
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 3: form my area, you know, experts kind of state that

1604
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 3: peak rut happens November tenth to November twentieth, a lot

1605
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 3: of hunters know that that is a constantly shifting variable

1606
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 3: and GPS collars have also back to that where you know,

1607
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:47,599
Speaker 3: for my area, one season, I could have peak rut

1608
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 3: starting on November two, and then the next season it

1609
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 3: could start November eighteenth, and it's just completely shifting around,

1610
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 3: and you really have to be active in the woods

1611
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 3: or maybe just have a ridiculous amount of trail cameras

1612
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,639
Speaker 3: to be able to identify. I win that peak red

1613
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 3: is going to actually take place in your area, But

1614
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 3: I think the number one factor in terms of what's

1615
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 3: going to change what you're doing throughout that season. And

1616
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 3: I'll be super excited to see this year with the

1617
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 3: drought that we had is the amount of rainfall that

1618
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 3: you get across spring and summer and if you don't

1619
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 3: have available native forage going into October and November. Because

1620
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 3: this season I think we have just from what I've seen,

1621
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 3: I can make an estimation that we have like a

1622
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 3: quarter to a half of the amount of acorn mass

1623
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:32,439
Speaker 3: on trees that we did last season, So that means

1624
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 3: we're gonna have dramatically less acorns. We already don't have

1625
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 3: native brows. They've already picked native brows pretty much clean.

1626
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 3: There's a sweetheen field that I've been scouting in person

1627
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 3: where a month and a half ago I have pictures

1628
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 3: of This might include in my next video because it's

1629
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,719
Speaker 3: that amazing where this twenty acre field was just flush

1630
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 3: and green and beautiful and there's been over one hundred

1631
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 3: and fifty deer in that field every single evening, and

1632
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 3: that field now it looks like a wasteland. I mean,

1633
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 3: they have eaten that entire field off nothing, and they're

1634
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,160
Speaker 3: kind of, you know, barring any other little native brows

1635
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:06,880
Speaker 3: out there, they're kind of out of native forbes and

1636
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 3: anything that's green and moisture rich. And because of that,

1637
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 3: it gets me into a whole thing with microbiome. I

1638
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 3: can get into that if we want to, but basically, yeah,

1639
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 3: why not, I'll get into it.

1640
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1641
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 3: Basically, throughout the summertime frame, they're browsing on moisture rich,

1642
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,679
Speaker 3: kind of easy to digest types of food sources, especially

1643
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:26,799
Speaker 3: if you have some moisture in the area. But whenever

1644
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,720
Speaker 3: they convert that and they start browsing on acorns, then

1645
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 3: there's a microbial transition that has to take place in

1646
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:35,800
Speaker 3: their gut. Because deer have four chamber of stomachs, they

1647
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:38,520
Speaker 3: have a room in and basically they have micro microbes

1648
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 3: that digest the food for them and convert it into energy.

1649
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 2: That's the basic way of putting that.

1650
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,280
Speaker 3: But in this situation where you have summer greens, like

1651
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 3: these deer that were just eating on the soybeans, now

1652
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 3: they're out of summer greens. So when acorns start falling,

1653
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,680
Speaker 3: which they're probably going to start falling earlier, and I

1654
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 3: think today's first day of season for my area, I

1655
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 3: think acorns have already been on the ground a little bit.

1656
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,480
Speaker 3: But as they transition in eating acorns, it's a completely

1657
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,760
Speaker 3: different style of food. It's a lot more woody, and fibrous,

1658
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 3: and it's going to cause their microbiome their gut, they're

1659
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 3: going to need a different form of microbes to be

1660
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 3: able to.

1661
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 2: Process that food.

1662
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:14,480
Speaker 3: And what takes place is when they start eating acorns,

1663
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 3: their body starts realizing they need different microbes and it

1664
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 3: takes seven to fourteen days you look this up. Take

1665
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 3: seven to fourteen days for this for their gut, for

1666
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:27,880
Speaker 3: their women to be able to switch and change the

1667
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 3: types of microbes that are inside of it, and across

1668
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 3: that timeframe, whenever they start browsing on acorns, they're not

1669
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 3: extracting near as much energy initially as they were whenever

1670
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 3: they were eating the moisture rich.

1671
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 2: Easy to digest food.

1672
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 3: So you have a period where when deers start making

1673
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:46,560
Speaker 3: that transition and they start hitting acorns, they have to

1674
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 3: do it at a much higher frequency. They have to

1675
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 3: fill their roomen much more so that way, since since

1676
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 3: their body is unable to extract as much energy, they

1677
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 3: need more food intake. And then if you start mixing

1678
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 3: that in with a mature buck in this setting where

1679
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:03,960
Speaker 3: he just sheds his velvet simultaneously, that means his testosterone

1680
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 3: is going to start increasing. As testosterone starts increasing energy

1681
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 3: output starts increasing and his metabolism starts increasing. Therefore he

1682
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 3: needs more food. But he's also changing his brows at

1683
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 3: the same exact time. So not only is he going

1684
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 3: through a microbial transition in his roomen where he's changing

1685
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:23,120
Speaker 3: the type of food he's trying to digest and extract

1686
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 3: energy from, but he's also shedding velvet and having higher

1687
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,760
Speaker 3: testosterone rates, which is going to cause him to go

1688
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 3: out and browse more frequently and really hyper focus in

1689
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 3: the first two weeks of season in most cases just

1690
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 3: dependent upon when acorn when they make that transition, but

1691
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,919
Speaker 3: really hyper focus for around two weeks on one individual

1692
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 3: food source as their gut makes that transition. So I

1693
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 3: don't know if that has to do with anything we

1694
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 3: were just talking about, but I.

1695
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,960
Speaker 1: Well, as I hear that, it sounds almost like hyperphasia,

1696
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: which is something that bears go through when they're preparing

1697
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:00,719
Speaker 1: for hybernation for a different reason and in this case,

1698
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: but does that has that I'm curious if that leads

1699
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: to like an increased opportunity or maybe that explains why

1700
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 1: we see a better opportunity in the early season because

1701
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:16,679
Speaker 1: you have this transition occurring. Have you observed that yourself

1702
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: last year when you watched deer doing this.

1703
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,200
Speaker 3: As I feel like, yeah, I feel like I've observed

1704
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 3: it myself, and I feel like I'm definitely observing it

1705
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:27,759
Speaker 3: right now with the drought that's taken place and how

1706
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 3: they're having to make a pretty quick transition from because

1707
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 3: they just haven't had much available green forbes, and I

1708
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 3: think that that will definitely cause him ature buck to

1709
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 3: be more active to try to get out and get

1710
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,640
Speaker 3: his brows. But we're also simultaneously being hit, you know,

1711
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 3: opening day of season in Missouri right now, the fifteenth,

1712
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 3: it's it's ninety degrees outside. It's hot, So I think

1713
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 3: that I haven't flown today, but I would assume I

1714
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 3: did see on trail cameras. I would assume that a

1715
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 3: lot more activity is going to take place kind of

1716
01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:00,320
Speaker 3: in the really really early morning timeframe where it's seventy

1717
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 3: seven degrees outside, whereas a lot of guys in the

1718
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 3: early season they're kind of waiting to go and hunt

1719
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 3: the evening time frame, kind of that late evening whenever

1720
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:08,640
Speaker 3: they're going to be moving. But I think they're going

1721
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 3: to move kind of at the start of dark or

1722
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,599
Speaker 3: really really close to the end of shooting light in

1723
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 3: these really hot days, and then in the morning timeframe,

1724
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 3: they're going to be pretty active because it's just so

1725
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:21,639
Speaker 3: much cooler. And whenever you have a mature buck running

1726
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,200
Speaker 3: around in eighty five to ninety degree weather and his

1727
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:26,719
Speaker 3: body's trying to put on a new coat to prepare

1728
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:29,720
Speaker 3: for the winter for the Midwest area, then that's not

1729
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 3: a good situation.

1730
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 2: It's actually kind of.

1731
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 3: Dangerous for them to try to move around a lot

1732
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,320
Speaker 3: in these peak heat timeframes. So you're going to see

1733
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:38,320
Speaker 3: a lot more activity in the morning while this heat's

1734
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 3: still here. But in five days, it's going to change

1735
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:42,200
Speaker 3: because a little bit of weather's going to come in.

1736
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:45,759
Speaker 3: It's going to be seventy seven degrees outside. Evening movement

1737
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,120
Speaker 3: might start to ramp up at that time frame where

1738
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 3: they're consistently going to acorns or woody brows. And yeah,

1739
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 3: but there's so many variables across the board for all

1740
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:55,680
Speaker 3: this type of stuff, So to be able to give

1741
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:58,759
Speaker 3: like a blanket answer on anything, it's very difficult because

1742
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 3: things change season by season basis, and you have to

1743
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 3: realize that as a hunter.

1744
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, so I believe I heard you mentioned somewhere

1745
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 1: that you're going to be releasing a video soon about

1746
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 1: the early season to some degree and making the claim

1747
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:15,080
Speaker 1: that the early season might be the best time to

1748
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 1: kill a mature buck. Is that right? Is that how

1749
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 1: you feel? And what have you seen in your research

1750
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 1: that makes you feel that way?

1751
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1752
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 3: And the heavy distinction on that is, I think it's

1753
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:29,519
Speaker 3: the best time to kill a specific target mature buck,

1754
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 3: not just immature buck. I think that if you're wanting

1755
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:35,040
Speaker 3: to target an individual animal, then the early season is

1756
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,600
Speaker 3: the best time frame. And that's that has to do

1757
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 3: with a lot of the stuff that I just talked about,

1758
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 3: with how he's going to have to be forced into

1759
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 3: browsing on these really hyper focused scenarios, which in the

1760
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,719
Speaker 3: Midwest is oftentimes on white oak corns in the early season.

1761
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,879
Speaker 3: But it also has to do with one their visibility

1762
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 3: is pretty easy in this timeframe, and they're betting locations.

1763
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 3: It seemed everything just seems to be a little bit

1764
01:22:57,439 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 3: smaller and a little bit tighter, and they're oftentimes still

1765
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 3: bachelored up for this first like especially the first week,

1766
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 3: some of them have already split. I mean, I don't

1767
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 3: know if that comes down to an individual characteristic thing.

1768
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 3: But some bucks have already split from their bachelor group.

1769
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 3: But oftentimes the ones that are still bachelored up, especially

1770
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 3: they I just think they're a lot easier to hone

1771
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 3: in on where they're bedding and where they're moving to

1772
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 3: in the evening, and it just it makes that it

1773
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 3: opens them up to a lot more availability to be hunted.

1774
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:28,679
Speaker 3: Whereas you start getting into the pre rut and post

1775
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 3: rut timeframe, everything starts getting haywire a little bit and

1776
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 3: all the bucks are moving all over the property every

1777
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 3: single day.

1778
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 2: And in terms of just killing a mature buck, yeah,

1779
01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 2: I would say in my.

1780
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:40,600
Speaker 3: Opinion, I think be rut or the post rut is

1781
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:42,320
Speaker 3: the time frame if you're hunting with a bow, if

1782
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 3: you're hunting with a rifle, wait until light late season

1783
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 3: on a drought season, have a food plot of something

1784
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 3: that's slightly green outside, Go sit in a tower, you know,

1785
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 3: hide in the bottom of the tower until the last

1786
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:54,760
Speaker 3: thirty minutes of shooting light, pop up with a muzzleloader

1787
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 3: and fling a bullet at the first thing you see.

1788
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 3: I think that's the best way to kill mature buck

1789
01:23:58,520 --> 01:23:59,559
Speaker 3: if you want to do it with that.

1790
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 2: That why that means.

1791
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 3: But as a bow hunter, I think pre ret and

1792
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 3: post rets really the best time frame if you're just

1793
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:08,360
Speaker 3: trying to kill a mature back. But early season, if

1794
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 3: you're targeting an individual one, I think it's I think

1795
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 3: it's the best time.

1796
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,559
Speaker 1: Did you see when watching these handful of individual mature

1797
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 1: bucks last year in the early season, were they more

1798
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 1: consistent with the food source they would choose? And I

1799
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 1: guess by that, I mean sometimes we might say, well, man,

1800
01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 1: this is the best food plot in the area. I

1801
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 1: really think this buck's bed in here, So I bet

1802
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:34,479
Speaker 1: you he's coming and hitting this food plot every night,

1803
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,160
Speaker 1: or something like that. Maybe we overgeneralize or we make

1804
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 1: an assumption like that. Did that hold true in any case?

1805
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 1: Or were these deer man one day it's here, one

1806
01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:45,600
Speaker 1: day it's there. They weren't as locked in as we

1807
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:46,639
Speaker 1: maybe wish that they were.

1808
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:50,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you were relating that to early season.

1809
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 1: Early season food. Yeah, but I'm curious if that applies

1810
01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 1: anywhere else.

1811
01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1812
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:58,639
Speaker 3: No, I mean for early season, especially whenever acorns start

1813
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:01,400
Speaker 3: dropping and they make that transition and they're going to

1814
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 3: be hyper focused on it. And that's where the whole

1815
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 3: ideology of finding the feed tree comes from if you

1816
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 3: can find the feed tree, then you can hunt the

1817
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 3: feed tree, et cetera, which is a really difficult thing

1818
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:13,759
Speaker 3: to do. In big timber settings where there's thousands of trees,

1819
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 3: good luck finding the first one that's dropping acorns. So

1820
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:19,000
Speaker 3: in that scenario, I think it's going to be harder

1821
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 3: this season for a lot of people to be able

1822
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:23,680
Speaker 3: to find the feed tree. But oftentimes, from my perspective

1823
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 3: and what I've seen with the drone and what I've

1824
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:27,679
Speaker 3: seen in the past of the hunter is finding those

1825
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 3: trees that are isolated outside of timber, kind of on

1826
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 3: a field edge location. If you have that, and if

1827
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 3: you do, then that isolated tree that's allowed being allowed

1828
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 3: to get more sunlight and put on a higher amount

1829
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 3: of acorn mass. Oftentimes, I believe they drop acorns sooner

1830
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 3: from what I've seen, And in that case, that's why

1831
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 3: I've seen a lot with the drone and in person

1832
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:50,639
Speaker 3: of mature bucks and in just deer in general moving

1833
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 3: out into these field edges and browsing underneath these these

1834
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,280
Speaker 3: acorn trees. And I think another thing you can potentially

1835
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 3: mix in whether you're in big timber or not big timber,

1836
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:03,760
Speaker 3: is areas where there's a tree positioned in a bit

1837
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 3: of a depression. So if you have a field edge

1838
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:08,640
Speaker 3: and it's in a little bit of a depression, then

1839
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 3: that area is going to naturally retain more moisture and

1840
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:12,960
Speaker 3: it's going to put on more acorns. So, especially in

1841
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 3: a drought season like we are now, that particular tree

1842
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 3: in a depression might be able to put on a

1843
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:21,240
Speaker 3: higher acorn mass. But in a scenario where you only

1844
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 3: have big timber and you don't have pialle edges, try

1845
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 3: to look for those natural types of drainages and in

1846
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:32,559
Speaker 3: types of depressions where there's oak trees in that particular location.

1847
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 3: And oftentimes you can actually see it on topography where

1848
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 3: if you look at the imagery from a top down

1849
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 3: perspective and the leaves are on in your imagery, then

1850
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 3: you can see the leaves are greener in that location

1851
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:47,679
Speaker 3: where there's depression, and that's because it's naturally retaining more moisture,

1852
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 3: which allows the leaves to retain more floor fill. Acorns

1853
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:52,720
Speaker 3: are going to be bigger, potentially healthier, et cetera. And

1854
01:26:53,080 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 3: I would like to think that you're going to funnel

1855
01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 3: those particular areas over anywhere else. But I don't know

1856
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,920
Speaker 3: about the big timber setting, but definitely field edges. That's

1857
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:02,719
Speaker 3: a that's a big thing. If you can find trees

1858
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 3: just outside of the outside of timber, it seems to

1859
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:08,639
Speaker 3: be that they really like walking into those fields and

1860
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,439
Speaker 3: browsing on those larger mature oak trees.

1861
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:17,639
Speaker 1: Makes sense. You bring up topography a lot, and at

1862
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 1: some point in our conversation, I think you alluded to

1863
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 1: the fact that you know that can sometimes be more

1864
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 1: dependable for predicting or patterning deer than anything. In being

1865
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:28,920
Speaker 1: able to watch all of these deer over the course

1866
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:32,000
Speaker 1: of the season, I know that you have seen them

1867
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 1: use a whole slew of different kinds of topographical features.

1868
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:39,240
Speaker 1: You've watched them use saddles, us benches, use thermal hubs,

1869
01:27:39,320 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 1: use points, use ridge lines, whatever. Is there any one

1870
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 1: particular topographic feature that was more important than you realize

1871
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 1: or maybe the very most important? And was there anything

1872
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 1: that ended up being a dud which you were like, Ah,

1873
01:27:58,200 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 1: I would have thought that this would have been much

1874
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:02,120
Speaker 1: more important for how these deer use their world, and

1875
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:02,840
Speaker 1: they just didn't.

1876
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think I have good, pretty good answers

1877
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 2: for those.

1878
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 3: Two one, saddles or saddles are really good. But in

1879
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 3: my opinion, from what I've seen, if you can position

1880
01:28:14,840 --> 01:28:19,200
Speaker 3: a saddle right up against a habitat transition where there's

1881
01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 3: maybe a clear cut and then maybe some mature timber,

1882
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 3: like a thin stretch of mature timber, and then a

1883
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 3: field edge, and they're all kind of up against or

1884
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 3: next to a saddle, that little thin stretch of timber

1885
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 3: or by thin stretch of timber. It could be two

1886
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:36,160
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty yards wide, or it can be fifty

1887
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 3: yards wide, but that thin stretch of timber I think

1888
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:41,960
Speaker 3: is going to be heavily active by especially mature bucks

1889
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 3: right up against the clear cut edge, and not especially

1890
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:46,880
Speaker 3: not up against the field edge, but right up against

1891
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 3: the clear cut edge. I think they utilize those clear

1892
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:53,040
Speaker 3: cut edges kind of wrapping nearby saddles very very consistently

1893
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 3: from what I've seen. And in terms of the dud,

1894
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:59,839
Speaker 3: I've seen some areas where I mentioned in a video

1895
01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:03,800
Speaker 3: where there's a topographical feature where it from a map

1896
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:07,559
Speaker 3: it looks like an extremely amazing funnel for like a hunter.

1897
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,479
Speaker 3: You see it and it's just like, oh my gosh,

1898
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 3: every single deer in the area that crosses this area,

1899
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 3: I'm going to be undetected all the time, and there's

1900
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:16,720
Speaker 3: no way it's going to smell me. And it's such

1901
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,200
Speaker 3: a tight funnel thirty yards or something, and like you

1902
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 3: just you're going to have a shot everything that walks

1903
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,800
Speaker 3: by you. And I had one of these, and I

1904
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:27,240
Speaker 3: don't know the exact term for this particular topographical feature.

1905
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:29,559
Speaker 3: It was more of like a if you had two

1906
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 3: large sections of land on either side, and then there's

1907
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:36,600
Speaker 3: this thin thirty yards light thirty yard like bridge that

1908
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:39,639
Speaker 3: connects the two together. And in this case the one

1909
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:41,000
Speaker 3: that I had, it was a little over one hundred

1910
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:42,320
Speaker 3: yards wide. I think it was one hundred and twenty

1911
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:44,759
Speaker 3: to one hundred and fifty yards wide, this thin stretch.

1912
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 3: Deer would not walk on that thin stretch, this bridge

1913
01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:51,000
Speaker 3: that connected these two pieces of land.

1914
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:51,720
Speaker 2: Versus walking on it.

1915
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:53,640
Speaker 3: And I have seen them walk on it before, but

1916
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:56,599
Speaker 3: more often than not, they would take the travel route

1917
01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:59,280
Speaker 3: that went down into a drainage over to a clearcut

1918
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:02,439
Speaker 3: edge and then on the other side, essentially four xing

1919
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:03,920
Speaker 3: the amount of distance that they were going to have

1920
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:07,639
Speaker 3: to travel to avoid the thin stretch of a bridge

1921
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:10,759
Speaker 3: that connected these two pieces of land and too tight.

1922
01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 1: Too tight of a funnel.

1923
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was too tight of a funnel. I think

1924
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,240
Speaker 3: in this scenario maybe it was too long as well.

1925
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:18,400
Speaker 3: Maybe if it was shorter and it was like twenty

1926
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:20,200
Speaker 3: or thirty yards, they'd be willing to take the risk.

1927
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 3: But since it was such a long funnel and there's

1928
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 3: a bluff on one side and there's a cliff on

1929
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:26,840
Speaker 3: the other side, it was pretty much like a suicide

1930
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 3: mission where if you get on it and then you

1931
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 3: have two I guess it's not good terminology to utilize.

1932
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 3: But and you have two predators come on either side

1933
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 3: of you in that scenario, then the only place that

1934
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:39,439
Speaker 3: you can go to is right off the cliff, and

1935
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:41,200
Speaker 3: then you know, good luck have fun with that. So

1936
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 3: I think they avoided those scenarios more often than not

1937
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 3: because of just how tight that they were.

1938
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 2: It was too good to be true type of situation.

1939
01:30:49,080 --> 01:31:03,760
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. You have put out five videos now,

1940
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: I think, unveiling some of your findings. You have been

1941
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:10,680
Speaker 1: on for five different podcasts talking about all of these

1942
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:15,840
Speaker 1: different things you've seen. You've had ostensibly hundreds of comments

1943
01:31:16,240 --> 01:31:19,160
Speaker 1: with people kind of looking at what you've shared from

1944
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:22,640
Speaker 1: your observations and giving them you know, they're sharing with

1945
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 1: you their thoughts on it or their questions. I'm curious

1946
01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 1: when you take everything you've heard so far, all the

1947
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:31,760
Speaker 1: questions you've gotten, all the comments you've gotten, what is

1948
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:37,599
Speaker 1: the one thing that people are missing? So you've you've

1949
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 1: shared all this information about your observations, about what you've seen,

1950
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:44,360
Speaker 1: about what you're learning about these trends that maybe you're identifying.

1951
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: What are people getting wrong after they've consumed everything you've shared.

1952
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 1: Either they're just not they're not understanding you correctly, or

1953
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:53,920
Speaker 1: they're just ignoring You've you've said this important thing, but

1954
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:55,719
Speaker 1: nobody seems to bring it up, or no one seems

1955
01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 1: to be remembering it. Does anything stand out as that

1956
01:31:59,000 --> 01:32:01,600
Speaker 1: thing that you wish people we're paying more attention to

1957
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:04,639
Speaker 1: from the you know, this thing you've put out into

1958
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 1: the world.

1959
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:08,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm it might not be a perfect answer for it,

1960
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 3: But the person that comes to my mind is kind

1961
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 3: of people that are a little more woodsmanship, kind of

1962
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 3: you know, outdoorsy mentality. They really like hunting like it

1963
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:23,280
Speaker 3: used to be type situation, a little bit borderline anti technology,

1964
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:25,800
Speaker 3: and they see what I'm doing, and they immediately dive

1965
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 3: in on it like he's utilizing technology. This is unethical, unethical, unethical,

1966
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:32,920
Speaker 3: like this needs to be banned across the board and

1967
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 3: for hunters and everything like that. And I think that

1968
01:32:36,479 --> 01:32:40,479
Speaker 3: they're missing the fact that this is scientific research for one,

1969
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:44,919
Speaker 3: but two, really the main one of the main goals

1970
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 3: for what I'm doing and the way that I'm pitching

1971
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 3: it and showing it to people is that you don't

1972
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 3: need to be heavily reliant on technology. It's actually a

1973
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:56,760
Speaker 3: disadvantage in most cases to become heavily reliant on technology

1974
01:32:57,160 --> 01:33:00,160
Speaker 3: and to be able to kill mature but consistently year

1975
01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 3: after year, you have to become a woodsmanship type hunter.

1976
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:06,719
Speaker 3: You have to be able to go out and apply

1977
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 3: yourself on the property and do a lot of research

1978
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:12,240
Speaker 3: and study topography prior to going in and map all

1979
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:15,839
Speaker 3: these certain variables, and then go in person and verify

1980
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:19,240
Speaker 3: all these variables, and then take all the infield activity

1981
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:21,479
Speaker 3: and scouting and everything that you've been able to apply

1982
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 3: and apply it at a whole picture setting to be

1983
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:27,120
Speaker 3: able to hunt property as a hunter should and especially

1984
01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:30,599
Speaker 3: how hunters used to hunt, so literally exactly what they're

1985
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:33,639
Speaker 3: wanting to be able to do. My work is showing

1986
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:35,720
Speaker 3: why you have to do that. If you want to

1987
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:38,680
Speaker 3: be able to consistently kill mature buck barring, you know

1988
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 3: in states where you can pour out corn piles, et cetera, etc.

1989
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 3: Stuff like that, you need to become this woodsmanship time

1990
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:48,320
Speaker 3: intell They literally exactly what these people are wanting if

1991
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:51,200
Speaker 3: they see the technology and they initially just jump on

1992
01:33:51,280 --> 01:33:53,360
Speaker 3: it in the fact that like, oh, how dare he

1993
01:33:53,520 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 3: in this unethical setting? And I understand it from like

1994
01:33:56,280 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 3: a hunter's perspective. If you're buying a thermal drone and

1995
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,120
Speaker 3: you're going out and you're attempting to utilize one to

1996
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:07,320
Speaker 3: hunt with in that situation, then that is the most

1997
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:09,640
Speaker 3: unethical thing that I think you can do in the

1998
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:13,240
Speaker 3: hunting community right now. I think that that is a terrible,

1999
01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 3: terrible thing because you can go out and you can

2000
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:17,439
Speaker 3: locate exactly where a deer is betting, and then you

2001
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:21,519
Speaker 3: can position yourself directly off of that location, and yeah,

2002
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 3: you're going to increase your odds dramatically In terms of

2003
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 3: patterning one, I think it's difficult, But in terms of

2004
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:28,640
Speaker 3: going out and locating one and hunting directly off of

2005
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:31,080
Speaker 3: that intel. Oh that's one hundred percenter, Like, yeah, you're

2006
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:33,320
Speaker 3: going to have a much higher odds of getting a

2007
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:35,320
Speaker 3: shot on them. I still think it's difficult. A mature

2008
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:37,000
Speaker 3: buck is still mature buck. It's not going to be easy,

2009
01:34:37,080 --> 01:34:39,280
Speaker 3: especially if you're using a bow. In fact, most people

2010
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:41,479
Speaker 3: are probably still going to fail if they're using a bow,

2011
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 3: But if you're hunting with a rifle or etc. You're

2012
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:46,519
Speaker 3: probably going to start succeeding. And I know I've heard

2013
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 3: things of people already attempting to use them in hunting situations,

2014
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 3: and it's really I like to get my opinion out

2015
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:56,000
Speaker 3: there on how I feel about it. And in my opinion,

2016
01:34:56,200 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 3: if you're willing to go and spend ten thousand dollars

2017
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:00,439
Speaker 3: on a thermal drone to go out and locate mature

2018
01:35:00,439 --> 01:35:02,680
Speaker 3: bucks and hunt them directly based off of what you're

2019
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 3: seeing and field, then I would highly highly recommend you

2020
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:07,720
Speaker 3: to go and find a high fence property. And I

2021
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:10,759
Speaker 3: don't mean a high fence property that's where the animals

2022
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:12,920
Speaker 3: are still wild on it and they're actually like still

2023
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:13,599
Speaker 3: difficult toun.

2024
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:15,679
Speaker 2: I highly recommend finding the ones.

2025
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 3: Where they release one out of a pin around fifty

2026
01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:20,080
Speaker 3: yards in front of you, and they pour kind of

2027
01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:21,920
Speaker 3: like a corn pile, or they have some type of

2028
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:24,840
Speaker 3: food source within twenty yards of your stand location, and

2029
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:27,080
Speaker 3: that deer walks. You can see the fence still, you

2030
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 3: know where you're sitting. That deer walks a straight line

2031
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 3: to the food source and you take a shot on it.

2032
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 3: I would highly recommend you utilize that style of hunting

2033
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 3: versus buying a thermal drone and going and ruining everything

2034
01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 3: for everybody else on public lands or even your private land.

2035
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:42,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's my feeling. It's a pretty strong opinion, but.

2036
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:47,800
Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing that. I have had similar concerns

2037
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 1: when I have started to see how these tools can

2038
01:35:49,960 --> 01:35:52,800
Speaker 1: be used. Scare the heck out of me, honestly to

2039
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:55,840
Speaker 1: see it and to imagine how somebody could use this

2040
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:58,600
Speaker 1: during the hunting season. And so the first thing I

2041
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,559
Speaker 1: started wondering was, Okay, how do we put guardrails on this?

2042
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:06,080
Speaker 1: How do we reckon with this? Because it's it's not

2043
01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:08,400
Speaker 1: like this is just going to go away. These tools

2044
01:36:08,439 --> 01:36:11,440
Speaker 1: are only going to become more affordable and more widespread,

2045
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 1: and so how do we as a hunting community figure

2046
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 1: out where this lives within our world. We've kind of

2047
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: figured out where trail cameras lived within the fair chase world,

2048
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 1: although technology keeps on changing there. But I'm curious if

2049
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:31,040
Speaker 1: you were to sit with the Missouri State Game Commission

2050
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:34,519
Speaker 1: and they would say, Hey, Derek, you've been using these

2051
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 1: thermal drones. You know what they can do. You know

2052
01:36:37,040 --> 01:36:40,559
Speaker 1: how incredibly effective they are at finding deer so quickly

2053
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:42,680
Speaker 1: and zooming right in on them and seeing everything they

2054
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:45,680
Speaker 1: do all day. If you or us, how would you

2055
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:51,080
Speaker 1: recommend managing this, regulating it in some way to preserve

2056
01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:53,720
Speaker 1: fair chase hunting in the future of our tradition here?

2057
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:54,519
Speaker 1: What would you tell them?

2058
01:36:55,120 --> 01:36:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2059
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:58,640
Speaker 3: Recommending Yeah, I would think that from a hunter's perspective,

2060
01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:01,160
Speaker 3: they need to be tamped down completely, pretty much banned

2061
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:03,680
Speaker 3: across the board from a hunter hunter's perspective, And I

2062
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:06,519
Speaker 3: know you start getting into a kind of iffy error

2063
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:08,600
Speaker 3: whenever you apply that private land. It's like to my

2064
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 3: private land, and I can do what I want to

2065
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:12,719
Speaker 3: on it. So that would be something that maybe they're

2066
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:13,920
Speaker 3: going to have to figure that one out, because I

2067
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:16,040
Speaker 3: don't know the answer in relation to public and private.

2068
01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:19,639
Speaker 3: But one hundred percenter for public land, absolutely no use,

2069
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:22,679
Speaker 3: no use case policy. I do think that they are

2070
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:27,640
Speaker 3: extremely effective and should remain used for deer recovery activities.

2071
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:30,600
Speaker 3: I think that that is a very good way to

2072
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:34,160
Speaker 3: utilize one, and and I think dogs are equally effective

2073
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:36,920
Speaker 3: and in some cases they're even more effective in a

2074
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 3: situation where you have extremely dense foliage on trees. But

2075
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 3: I think that especially going to the late season where

2076
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:45,519
Speaker 3: if you've got a you know, a single lung or

2077
01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:47,280
Speaker 3: a or a gut shot on one and they're going

2078
01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 3: to be living for a long time, a dog could

2079
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:52,679
Speaker 3: potentially bump that deer up in some situations, and thermal

2080
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:55,840
Speaker 3: drone you're not having any impact on that particular deer.

2081
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:58,439
Speaker 3: So it's actually a very very ethical way to go

2082
01:37:58,479 --> 01:38:01,919
Speaker 3: about tracking one. I know that my state in particular,

2083
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:03,920
Speaker 3: if you track one and you locate it, you're not

2084
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 3: allowed to go in and finish it off at the moment.

2085
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:09,240
Speaker 3: And I don't know what, you know, what application you

2086
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 3: could do for that. I've previously thought the idea of

2087
01:38:11,280 --> 01:38:13,920
Speaker 3: like being able to contact a conservation agent as a

2088
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:16,200
Speaker 3: pilot and then kind of narrow out the fact that

2089
01:38:16,240 --> 01:38:18,080
Speaker 3: like this deer really is shot, this deer really is

2090
01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:19,519
Speaker 3: wounded and we should be able to go out and

2091
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:21,479
Speaker 3: finish it, and then they accept that. But at the

2092
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:24,920
Speaker 3: same time, most conservation agencies are underemployed, and like the

2093
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:27,840
Speaker 3: idea of that is just not something that's applicable. So

2094
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:30,479
Speaker 3: I don't know where that falls in line. But as

2095
01:38:30,479 --> 01:38:32,719
Speaker 3: someone who has tracked a deer before, and I've seen

2096
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:35,280
Speaker 3: one wounded laying there in a position that you could

2097
01:38:35,320 --> 01:38:38,479
Speaker 3: go and finish it off, but legally you're not allowed to.

2098
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:40,000
Speaker 3: You have to sit back and wait. That kind of

2099
01:38:40,080 --> 01:38:43,200
Speaker 3: hurts me mentally from an ethical standpoint. And the reason

2100
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 3: that's put in place is because somebody could hire a

2101
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:49,320
Speaker 3: pilot to go out and locate a buck that they

2102
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:52,519
Speaker 3: just shot, and then they never actually shot them, and

2103
01:38:52,520 --> 01:38:54,479
Speaker 3: then you give them that pin location and then they

2104
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:56,559
Speaker 3: go and hunt based off of that. So that's why

2105
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:59,040
Speaker 3: it's in place, which makes complete sense. So I don't

2106
01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:01,639
Speaker 3: know where you know that that needs to be fixed,

2107
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:04,200
Speaker 3: but I do think it's unethical to locate one that's

2108
01:39:04,439 --> 01:39:08,519
Speaker 3: clearly wounded and more mortally wounded and just watch him

2109
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:10,360
Speaker 3: die over the course of six eight hours. I think

2110
01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 3: it'd be cool if you could go finish one off

2111
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:13,760
Speaker 3: but I just don't know the application for that.

2112
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:17,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, from the what I'm doing perspective, I think.

2113
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 3: It needs to be heavily regulated, especially on public land,

2114
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 3: and in a similar way like think about how you

2115
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:25,920
Speaker 3: can't buy a GPS color and go out and trank

2116
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:28,479
Speaker 3: your deer and track them with a GPS CARR.

2117
01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:31,000
Speaker 2: So it needs to be sanctioned to the point that

2118
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:33,960
Speaker 2: it's it's really utilized by groups.

2119
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 3: And organizations in a controlled fashion for scientific research purposes,

2120
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:42,880
Speaker 3: and it's not really something that's publicly available at that level.

2121
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:45,360
Speaker 3: And that's once again where you get into the public

2122
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:47,479
Speaker 3: land versus private land, and you know, people, if there's

2123
01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:49,400
Speaker 3: still something that you can buy and you want to

2124
01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:51,200
Speaker 3: utilize it on your on your private land to go

2125
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:53,120
Speaker 3: and do dota buck I think that's a great application

2126
01:39:53,160 --> 01:39:56,240
Speaker 3: as well, dota buck analysis and whatnot for private land

2127
01:39:56,280 --> 01:39:59,720
Speaker 3: properties where they're potentially overpopulated but they really don't know

2128
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:01,439
Speaker 3: how how much overpopulated they are.

2129
01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:03,400
Speaker 2: Thermal drones an extremely.

2130
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:05,720
Speaker 3: Effective way to go out and locate how many deer

2131
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:08,120
Speaker 3: you have on a property at that exact moment in time,

2132
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:11,160
Speaker 3: and then you can kind of manage your dough population

2133
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:13,639
Speaker 3: based off of that. In most situations, people are highly

2134
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:16,880
Speaker 3: overpopulated and they don't realize that. So I think that's

2135
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:19,000
Speaker 3: a that's a really good use case. And I know

2136
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:21,559
Speaker 3: a lot of conservation agencies are trying to get people

2137
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 3: to kill more does because they just don't realize how

2138
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:26,200
Speaker 3: many are actually out there, and a lot of people

2139
01:40:26,280 --> 01:40:28,760
Speaker 3: just kind of they don't really want to and they

2140
01:40:28,800 --> 01:40:31,160
Speaker 3: want to focus on antlers, but they just don't realize

2141
01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 3: the implications that they're having. So maybe there's a way

2142
01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:36,080
Speaker 3: to still be able to apply that at a at

2143
01:40:36,120 --> 01:40:39,200
Speaker 3: a private level. But yeah, no, in the end, it's

2144
01:40:39,240 --> 01:40:41,000
Speaker 3: a it's a tough question to be able to ask

2145
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:43,200
Speaker 3: and to really narrow down on what to do. But

2146
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:46,880
Speaker 3: from a from a hunting perspective, especially a public land

2147
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:49,559
Speaker 3: hunting perspective, I think it needs to be harped on

2148
01:40:49,880 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 3: and really narrowed down and tightened as to the capabilities

2149
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:55,559
Speaker 3: of these things and people's availability to go out and

2150
01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 3: do them, and and actually the ramifications if someone's caught

2151
01:40:59,479 --> 01:41:02,599
Speaker 3: doing one, utilizing a thermal drone hunting on public land,

2152
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:03,000
Speaker 3: et cetera.

2153
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:05,280
Speaker 2: I think that needs to be hype dramatic.

2154
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:08,840
Speaker 3: You need to be getting held accountable at a very

2155
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:10,599
Speaker 3: high level or if you're going to be doing that

2156
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:12,599
Speaker 3: in my opinion, yeah, well, like.

2157
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:15,160
Speaker 1: You said, you can't be tranking deer and putting collars

2158
01:41:15,200 --> 01:41:17,240
Speaker 1: on them and tracking them, So why should you be

2159
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:21,000
Speaker 1: able to track them even more closely with video camera

2160
01:41:22,120 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 1: all day throughout the year and then hunt them right then?

2161
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:28,720
Speaker 1: I think that's raises incredible red flags. I would love

2162
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:34,120
Speaker 1: to see the use of them in season banned, with

2163
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:37,040
Speaker 1: the exception of recovery. It seems like in season use

2164
01:41:37,080 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 1: of this tool is just full of really, really dangerous implications.

2165
01:41:42,160 --> 01:41:44,120
Speaker 1: I have a friend who has one of these, who

2166
01:41:44,240 --> 01:41:46,719
Speaker 1: has said that he is going to lock his thermal

2167
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:49,519
Speaker 1: drone in a safe and give the code to his

2168
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:52,160
Speaker 1: wife so he is not tempted to get it out

2169
01:41:52,160 --> 01:41:54,839
Speaker 1: in season and look at deer because it's it seems

2170
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:57,920
Speaker 1: like so fascinating to do it and so tempting. And

2171
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:00,439
Speaker 1: then honestly, he said, it's like addicting, just like every

2172
01:42:00,479 --> 01:42:01,720
Speaker 1: day you want to go and see where they are,

2173
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,120
Speaker 1: see what they're doing, watch them, and we love deer.

2174
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:07,200
Speaker 1: We love watching deer. It's so interesting, so it's very tempting.

2175
01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:09,840
Speaker 1: I would imagine if you had this power that you

2176
01:42:09,840 --> 01:42:14,080
Speaker 1: would want to use it, but I think that I

2177
01:42:14,120 --> 01:42:16,519
Speaker 1: think we have to be really, really, really careful about it.

2178
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:19,639
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that you are, that you proactively chose

2179
01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:21,800
Speaker 1: to not hunt while using this tool, and that you

2180
01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:25,560
Speaker 1: are speaking out so firmly on the concerns sitch. I

2181
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:28,120
Speaker 1: think that's that's that's very admirable and I appreciate that,

2182
01:42:28,160 --> 01:42:28,960
Speaker 1: so thank you. Derek.

2183
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:31,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I definitely have had scenarios where like I'm

2184
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:34,240
Speaker 3: human as well, right, So, like I've had situations where,

2185
01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:36,559
Speaker 3: in particular, I see some of the bucks that I

2186
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:38,759
Speaker 3: love hunting are like a like one hundred and twenty

2187
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:41,320
Speaker 3: to one hundred and forty inch kind of gnarly mainframe

2188
01:42:41,400 --> 01:42:45,080
Speaker 3: seven or eight, just like a disgustingly massive, mature dominant fact.

2189
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:45,720
Speaker 2: I love.

2190
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:48,320
Speaker 3: I love those deer, and I would see one with

2191
01:42:48,479 --> 01:42:50,880
Speaker 3: drone and it's like, man, you'd be fun to hunt.

2192
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 3: Like if I could go out and like actually just

2193
01:42:53,080 --> 01:42:54,840
Speaker 3: sling an er at you, I would I would really

2194
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:57,960
Speaker 3: enjoy that. But then at the same timeframe, I kind

2195
01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:00,439
Speaker 3: of recollect myself and it's like, you don't be really

2196
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:03,080
Speaker 3: fun to research and observe and see how you behave

2197
01:43:03,200 --> 01:43:05,680
Speaker 3: versus this one hundred and seventy inch mainframe ten that

2198
01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:08,120
Speaker 3: I've been observing as well, and because he had a

2199
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:10,840
Speaker 3: lot more aggressive and dominant tendencies to just be.

2200
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:11,760
Speaker 2: Able to analyze that.

2201
01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:14,000
Speaker 3: So you kind of had to reel yourself in whenever

2202
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:17,160
Speaker 3: you'd see stuff like that and realize, you know what

2203
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:19,479
Speaker 3: you're doing. And I think that one thing that started

2204
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:21,679
Speaker 3: hitting me as well was a couple of months into

2205
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:24,960
Speaker 3: the research, it became a normal thing for me, like

2206
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:27,639
Speaker 3: analyzing deal with this thermal drone because no one knew

2207
01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:30,120
Speaker 3: about it. It was just me, and analyzing deer with thermal

2208
01:43:30,200 --> 01:43:32,280
Speaker 3: drone became a very normal event for me.

2209
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:33,599
Speaker 2: It was just it was what I did.

2210
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 3: Every day, and I had to like re realize what

2211
01:43:37,120 --> 01:43:40,599
Speaker 3: I'm doing and how important and how amazing it actually was,

2212
01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 3: and how this was like the first time anyone's done

2213
01:43:43,120 --> 01:43:46,439
Speaker 3: this at this level, and just continue to remind myself that, like,

2214
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:48,200
Speaker 3: this is why you're doing this, this is why you're

2215
01:43:48,240 --> 01:43:51,640
Speaker 3: focusing on research and in an extremely ethical way, and

2216
01:43:52,040 --> 01:43:54,679
Speaker 3: don't go beyond that boundary, like stay within your realm

2217
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:55,280
Speaker 3: of possibility.

2218
01:43:55,320 --> 01:43:58,559
Speaker 2: And that's that's exactly what I did. So, yeah, it's fun.

2219
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:01,439
Speaker 1: So how do you plan on navigating this in the future,

2220
01:44:02,200 --> 01:44:04,559
Speaker 1: like are you are you going to hunt this year?

2221
01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:07,479
Speaker 1: Are you going to set aside the drone so you

2222
01:44:07,479 --> 01:44:09,439
Speaker 1: can hunt again? Are you going to do something different

2223
01:44:09,439 --> 01:44:10,960
Speaker 1: in the future, Like what does that? What does your

2224
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:11,680
Speaker 1: future look like?

2225
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2226
01:44:12,320 --> 01:44:14,679
Speaker 3: No, I've been asked as well, like if I had

2227
01:44:14,680 --> 01:44:16,800
Speaker 3: to have the drone or bow hunt, which one would

2228
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:19,120
Speaker 3: I do? And at the moment, for me personally, I

2229
01:44:18,880 --> 01:44:20,320
Speaker 3: would I would throw the drone away and I would

2230
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:20,960
Speaker 3: just focus.

2231
01:44:20,720 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 2: On bow hunting for the rest of my life.

2232
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:24,880
Speaker 3: But being that I still can't have the drone and

2233
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 3: I can fly it, I'm going to focus on really

2234
01:44:28,240 --> 01:44:32,240
Speaker 3: individualistic kind of scientific research and I'm going to use

2235
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:35,120
Speaker 3: that research from this season in coordination with some other

2236
01:44:35,160 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 3: people and some other names in the industry, and be

2237
01:44:37,880 --> 01:44:43,040
Speaker 3: able to pitch larger scale, privately funded research projects moving

2238
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:45,719
Speaker 3: into the future. And as for me hunting, I've already

2239
01:44:45,760 --> 01:44:48,519
Speaker 3: mentioned that I don't believe it's ethical for me to hunt,

2240
01:44:48,640 --> 01:44:52,120
Speaker 3: especially the property that I researched probably seventy percent of

2241
01:44:52,160 --> 01:44:55,360
Speaker 3: the time, which makes me sad from the perspective that,

2242
01:44:55,400 --> 01:44:57,320
Speaker 3: like I grew up on that farm, That's where I

2243
01:44:57,360 --> 01:45:00,200
Speaker 3: did a lot of my hunting growing up, and now

2244
01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:03,639
Speaker 3: I'm I'm I don't think, especially until a massive habitat

2245
01:45:03,720 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 3: change happens, like say we go in and do some

2246
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:07,960
Speaker 3: big per cuts, et cetera. In the next ten years.

2247
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:10,320
Speaker 3: I think at that point it might become viable for

2248
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:13,679
Speaker 3: me again. But even then, in my heart of hearts,

2249
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:18,360
Speaker 3: like I know some terrain driven locations where there's it's

2250
01:45:18,439 --> 01:45:20,479
Speaker 3: just a what, like, there's no way I wouldn't kill

2251
01:45:20,479 --> 01:45:23,400
Speaker 3: mat your buck no matter what the habitat changes. We're like,

2252
01:45:23,439 --> 01:45:25,479
Speaker 3: they are just that good of a location. And then

2253
01:45:25,479 --> 01:45:27,720
Speaker 3: that's another thing, you know, moving beyond me, Like I

2254
01:45:27,720 --> 01:45:31,200
Speaker 3: have a son and a daughter, but especially my oldest

2255
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:33,720
Speaker 3: son whenever he hits age to start hunting, and I

2256
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:35,519
Speaker 3: want him to be able to go and enjoy that

2257
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:37,479
Speaker 3: property at the same level that I did whenever I

2258
01:45:37,479 --> 01:45:40,000
Speaker 3: grew up. It's like, how do I how do I

2259
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:42,600
Speaker 3: feel that do it? Definitely can't give him the you

2260
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 3: know these locations that I know, so in my brain

2261
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 3: it's kind of as if I'm just going to have

2262
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:48,720
Speaker 3: to let him figure it out and we're going to

2263
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:50,599
Speaker 3: go in, We're going to rifle hunt in the middle

2264
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:52,200
Speaker 3: of a food plot in a field and a tower

2265
01:45:52,200 --> 01:45:53,479
Speaker 3: in the beginning, and then we're going to kind of

2266
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:57,120
Speaker 3: start expanding beyond that if he's interested, and start you know,

2267
01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:01,040
Speaker 3: maybe helping him position himself and learn those locations. But

2268
01:46:01,400 --> 01:46:03,160
Speaker 3: I can't just give the keys to the kingdom and

2269
01:46:03,200 --> 01:46:04,920
Speaker 3: be like, go sit in this spot everything like that,

2270
01:46:04,960 --> 01:46:06,880
Speaker 3: because you're going to kill a big buck. So you

2271
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:08,879
Speaker 3: have to kind of like feel that for not only myself,

2272
01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:11,719
Speaker 3: but future people as well. And there's also other people

2273
01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:14,080
Speaker 3: that watch the channel that still hunt that property and

2274
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:17,920
Speaker 3: kind of safeguarding how de youer actually utilizing it, but

2275
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:21,559
Speaker 3: still making it extremely accurate for the video and not

2276
01:46:21,720 --> 01:46:24,719
Speaker 3: giving away those locations that, in my opinion are those

2277
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:27,599
Speaker 3: like top three locations across the property, so that way

2278
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:29,760
Speaker 3: people aren't able to take advantage of it. So, ye know,

2279
01:46:29,840 --> 01:46:32,160
Speaker 3: it's a very interesting err And that's one thing I've

2280
01:46:32,160 --> 01:46:34,040
Speaker 3: thought about going to the future as well with research

2281
01:46:34,200 --> 01:46:39,280
Speaker 3: is researching a property and then finding a similar property

2282
01:46:39,640 --> 01:46:42,519
Speaker 3: in terms of terrain features, and then mimicking the types

2283
01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:44,360
Speaker 3: of travel routes that the buck was doing on the

2284
01:46:44,400 --> 01:46:46,719
Speaker 3: property that I was researching, especially if it's private land,

2285
01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:49,680
Speaker 3: and displaying it on YouTube in a different format on

2286
01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:51,599
Speaker 3: a different property, so that way, the people that hunt

2287
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:54,960
Speaker 3: that property aren't able to gain any extra edge for

2288
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:58,320
Speaker 3: their hunting strategy. Thankfully, the main properties I've been researching,

2289
01:46:58,600 --> 01:47:01,000
Speaker 3: the guys hunt like two to three days during rifle

2290
01:47:01,040 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 3: season in their food plots, over a tower and in

2291
01:47:04,520 --> 01:47:06,880
Speaker 3: a tower, and that's that's also it's not going to

2292
01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:08,320
Speaker 3: have that big of an effect for them. They're not

2293
01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:09,920
Speaker 3: going to go out of their way. They're they're kind

2294
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:12,000
Speaker 3: of old men and they just got they.

2295
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:12,559
Speaker 2: Go sit in a tower.

2296
01:47:13,400 --> 01:47:15,479
Speaker 3: But still there's just a lot of things to kind

2297
01:47:15,479 --> 01:47:16,840
Speaker 3: of keep in the back of your brain as you're

2298
01:47:16,880 --> 01:47:20,040
Speaker 3: giving out this information. That's especially in a private land

2299
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:22,400
Speaker 3: setting where people can go out and access it, that

2300
01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:24,040
Speaker 3: that might have access to hunt property.

2301
01:47:24,280 --> 01:47:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I don't.

2302
01:47:25,240 --> 01:47:26,960
Speaker 3: I don't know, But for me as a hunter, I

2303
01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:30,800
Speaker 3: think that I'll start focusing more on public land and

2304
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:32,880
Speaker 3: then there might be some other private land, you know,

2305
01:47:32,960 --> 01:47:35,800
Speaker 3: situations where I haven't I haven't done research before or

2306
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:37,800
Speaker 3: hunted in the past, where it'd be fun to go

2307
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:40,280
Speaker 3: out and hunt those maybe least properties or hunting clubs

2308
01:47:40,360 --> 01:47:44,880
Speaker 3: or something. But definitely kind of leaning more towards public land,

2309
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:47,040
Speaker 3: and in terms of my personal hunting that I do.

2310
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:49,320
Speaker 3: And then still on the private lands that I've hunted,

2311
01:47:49,400 --> 01:47:51,960
Speaker 3: you know, my whole life. I think I'm fine to

2312
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:55,000
Speaker 3: go out and manage those on those properties, like going

2313
01:47:55,000 --> 01:47:56,960
Speaker 3: out and shooting them with my bow or a rifle

2314
01:47:57,040 --> 01:47:59,960
Speaker 3: in that setting. But yeah, positioning myself in a location

2315
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:01,680
Speaker 3: and where I know mature buck is going to be

2316
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:03,400
Speaker 3: forced to travel on that area, I just don't think

2317
01:48:03,439 --> 01:48:04,920
Speaker 3: that's I don't think that's acceptable.

2318
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:09,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, So on this these future places you hunt, public

2319
01:48:09,120 --> 01:48:14,160
Speaker 1: land or other private what is the single biggest change

2320
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:18,640
Speaker 1: you and vision making to your hunting strategy based on

2321
01:48:18,680 --> 01:48:19,559
Speaker 1: what you've learned so far?

2322
01:48:20,400 --> 01:48:23,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, the number one thing that I'm going to

2323
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:27,559
Speaker 3: look for is habitat diversity. If I can find habitat

2324
01:48:27,640 --> 01:48:29,960
Speaker 3: diversity on any public land or new private land that

2325
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:32,440
Speaker 3: I'm going to be hunting, then I will start immediately

2326
01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 3: hyper focusing on that area. And then if I can

2327
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:39,639
Speaker 3: put that habitat diversity in correlation with potentially a small

2328
01:48:39,680 --> 01:48:42,800
Speaker 3: micro thermal hub or a large thermal hub or saddles,

2329
01:48:42,840 --> 01:48:45,400
Speaker 3: et cetera, in these locations where deer are going to

2330
01:48:45,439 --> 01:48:49,280
Speaker 3: be more likely than to travel, then I'll continue to

2331
01:48:49,360 --> 01:48:51,519
Speaker 3: hyper focus on that more than anything, and where those

2332
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:55,320
Speaker 3: habitat diversity areas are. And then on top of that,

2333
01:48:55,320 --> 01:48:58,200
Speaker 3: that's whenever you start getting into the train driven type features,

2334
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:00,559
Speaker 3: especially if I'm still hunting a train I'm not hunting

2335
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:03,519
Speaker 3: in like hill country terrain, I think I become like

2336
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:06,639
Speaker 3: a seventy five percent worse hunter automatically. But if I'm

2337
01:49:06,680 --> 01:49:08,760
Speaker 3: like in my hill country type stuff, I think that

2338
01:49:08,840 --> 01:49:12,479
Speaker 3: I'm pretty stink and lethal right now. But yeah, no,

2339
01:49:12,680 --> 01:49:15,920
Speaker 3: I would be focusing on habitat diversity and in relation

2340
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:19,679
Speaker 3: to terrain features and kind of you know, thermal hubs, saddles,

2341
01:49:19,720 --> 01:49:22,120
Speaker 3: et cetera. These really high hot areas. And also it's

2342
01:49:22,200 --> 01:49:24,640
Speaker 3: highly dependent upon season. You know in early season that

2343
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:26,680
Speaker 3: where I'm going to be hunting is not where I'm

2344
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:29,080
Speaker 3: going to be focusing on during the post rut, et cetera.

2345
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:31,880
Speaker 3: So kind of finding that that balances to where I'd be.

2346
01:49:32,200 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 3: But really, the main thing that I would be focusing on,

2347
01:49:34,240 --> 01:49:36,280
Speaker 3: especially where mature bucks are going to be moving, is

2348
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:39,160
Speaker 3: areas with habitat diversity, especially if you can find a

2349
01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:42,000
Speaker 3: clear cut for an edge, because it seems like when

2350
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:46,559
Speaker 3: they're moving through the timber and heading into location, if

2351
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:49,880
Speaker 3: say he walks through a funnel that's two hundred yards wide,

2352
01:49:49,880 --> 01:49:51,639
Speaker 3: and he walks up this ridge, which in my opinion,

2353
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:54,320
Speaker 3: a two hundred wide section where he's forced to travel.

2354
01:49:54,320 --> 01:49:56,760
Speaker 3: That's still funnel. It doesn't have to be thirty yards wide.

2355
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:59,040
Speaker 3: Anywhere where he is forced to travel, in my opinion,

2356
01:49:59,120 --> 01:50:01,280
Speaker 3: is a fumbel is a funnel. And in this in

2357
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:03,479
Speaker 3: this case, let's say's two hundred yards wide, and he

2358
01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:07,000
Speaker 3: walks up that ridge anywhere within that two hundred wide section.

2359
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:10,240
Speaker 3: But every single time when he makes it to this

2360
01:50:10,320 --> 01:50:12,800
Speaker 3: habitat edge, it's as if he just like walked into

2361
01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:14,920
Speaker 3: a brick wall and he made it to his destination

2362
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:17,200
Speaker 3: and then he moves based off of that. So he's

2363
01:50:17,280 --> 01:50:21,080
Speaker 3: kind of using these habitat features and edges as kind

2364
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 3: of key like things to focus on and be able

2365
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:27,080
Speaker 3: to kind of re engineer his brain as to where

2366
01:50:27,080 --> 01:50:29,200
Speaker 3: he's located and then move based off of that.

2367
01:50:29,360 --> 01:50:30,960
Speaker 2: If that makes sense. So that's why I would be

2368
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:32,280
Speaker 2: looking for habitat adversity.

2369
01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:37,080
Speaker 1: Very interesting. Well, there where can folks go to see

2370
01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:40,000
Speaker 1: these videos you've shared so far and everything else is

2371
01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:40,320
Speaker 1: to come?

2372
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, White toil research across the board. Actually, if you

2373
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:46,360
Speaker 3: google mam. I'm at the top now, so I made it.

2374
01:50:47,080 --> 01:50:50,200
Speaker 3: I'm at the top for white Tail Research gradulations, So yeah,

2375
01:50:50,240 --> 01:50:52,360
Speaker 3: I feel great about that. I bragged to my wife

2376
01:50:52,439 --> 01:50:55,120
Speaker 3: every day about that topic. But so yeah, white Tail

2377
01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:57,200
Speaker 3: Research across the board. My main platform is going to

2378
01:50:57,200 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 3: continue to be YouTube. I might start posting for talk

2379
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:02,320
Speaker 3: because I am a wild life phtographer, might start posting

2380
01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:04,639
Speaker 3: photography and stuff to Instagram and whatnot in the future.

2381
01:51:05,120 --> 01:51:07,040
Speaker 3: And then I also have a website, white Tail Research

2382
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:09,559
Speaker 3: dot net. It's actually going to be changing here soon

2383
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:12,520
Speaker 3: because I've made a new one that might have merchandising

2384
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:14,479
Speaker 3: and I might be able to sell drones, et cetera.

2385
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:17,360
Speaker 3: And then I have a Patreon coming out soon white

2386
01:51:17,360 --> 01:51:20,240
Speaker 3: Tail Research as well, where I'll kind of give because

2387
01:51:20,280 --> 01:51:22,439
Speaker 3: as you've seen, I haven't put many videos out across

2388
01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:24,960
Speaker 3: the time. Permit's because I'm really particular about the style

2389
01:51:25,000 --> 01:51:27,960
Speaker 3: of videos that get put on white Tail Research. They

2390
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:30,240
Speaker 3: have to kind of be a little bit of research oriented,

2391
01:51:30,479 --> 01:51:32,200
Speaker 3: and if they're not, I don't want to put them

2392
01:51:32,240 --> 01:51:35,160
Speaker 3: in that application. So the Patreon ideas, it's going to

2393
01:51:35,240 --> 01:51:37,880
Speaker 3: kind of focus on things in the background that I'm

2394
01:51:37,920 --> 01:51:40,160
Speaker 3: doing and actively so that way the people that are

2395
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:42,120
Speaker 3: wondering where I've been for the last month, it's like, well,

2396
01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:43,559
Speaker 3: you can go there and that's where that's what I've

2397
01:51:43,600 --> 01:51:45,920
Speaker 3: been doing. So it's going to and there's going to

2398
01:51:45,960 --> 01:51:48,720
Speaker 3: be more stuff like live poals for research ideas and

2399
01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:51,599
Speaker 3: all sorts of randomness. But yeah, white tail research across

2400
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:53,320
Speaker 3: the board though, for everything that I've got, and in

2401
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:55,240
Speaker 3: terms of socials, I think I have every one of them.

2402
01:51:55,479 --> 01:51:56,640
Speaker 2: I don't really like social.

2403
01:51:56,400 --> 01:51:58,880
Speaker 3: Media, so like TikTok and all that type of stuff,

2404
01:51:58,920 --> 01:51:59,880
Speaker 3: I'm not very active on.

2405
01:52:00,200 --> 01:52:02,320
Speaker 2: But maybe someday I will be. I don't know, we'll see.

2406
01:52:02,439 --> 01:52:07,400
Speaker 1: So you're not missing out, yeah, I think so. Well, Derek,

2407
01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:10,120
Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing all this. I appreciate the work

2408
01:52:10,120 --> 01:52:14,320
Speaker 1: you've done so far, really really interesting stuff, and we're

2409
01:52:14,320 --> 01:52:17,200
Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing what else you'll be sharing in

2410
01:52:17,240 --> 01:52:20,759
Speaker 1: the coming weeks and months, and whatever new research projects

2411
01:52:20,800 --> 01:52:23,080
Speaker 1: you and Bronson get into this year or next year

2412
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:26,960
Speaker 1: we will be particularly excited about. So thank you and

2413
01:52:27,160 --> 01:52:28,840
Speaker 1: best of luck this year with the next version of

2414
01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:29,320
Speaker 1: the research.

2415
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:31,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on, man. I appreciate it.

2416
01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:37,240
Speaker 1: All right, And that's a wrap. Thank you for tuning in.

2417
01:52:37,360 --> 01:52:41,360
Speaker 1: I appreciate you listening to this episode, joining me for

2418
01:52:41,400 --> 01:52:45,600
Speaker 1: this conversation. Really really wild stuff. It's going to be

2419
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:49,360
Speaker 1: interesting to see how further studies expand on our understanding

2420
01:52:49,400 --> 01:52:52,479
Speaker 1: of deer another game. I love the fact that Derek

2421
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:55,599
Speaker 1: is going to be working with you know, respected well

2422
01:52:55,680 --> 01:52:59,000
Speaker 1: trained researchers such as Bronson Strickland. I think that's going

2423
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:02,880
Speaker 1: to really give us further depth of understanding of what

2424
01:53:02,920 --> 01:53:04,960
Speaker 1: we're dealing with here, and I can't wait to see

2425
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:08,680
Speaker 1: what they uncover. So until next time, thank you, and

2426
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:11,000
Speaker 1: stay Wired to Hunt.