Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up. In SVU podcast, I'm Liza Trigger.
Speaker 1: And I am Kara Klank and we are here to
Speaker 1: talk SVU true crime guests, interviews, random crap from the internet,
Speaker 1: things going on in our lives. And here we are.
Speaker 4: We're back.
Speaker 1: We're in a little This is a little bit of
Speaker 1: a time machine episode because when this episode comes out,
Speaker 1: I'll have just come back from spring break, which is
Speaker 1: something I have to engage in because I have my kids.
Speaker 1: But it's spring break maybe, And what are you doing? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm going this week. This tomorrow, i leave actually for Boston,
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to New Hampshire to do my
Speaker 1: yearly camp Girls Weekend in New Hampshire, and then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna come to New York for a night and then
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fly to North Carolina where Jared will meet
Speaker 1: me with the kids. And so he's flying alone with
Speaker 1: the kids for the first time. So prayers, prayers up
Speaker 1: to him he'll be fine. They're way better. They just
Speaker 1: watch TV now. But then we'll be in North Carolina.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be in Raleigh.
Speaker 4: What are their drinks in the air? What are their drinks?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like, what do they like to get at the beverage car?
Speaker 2: At the kids? They just get. They don't get anything.
Speaker 4: They don't get an apple juice, ginger ail, nothing, they don't.
Speaker 5: They don't get.
Speaker 1: They don't drink soda, so they I'll get them water
Speaker 1: if they need water, but I don't give them apple juice.
Speaker 1: They'll spill it everywhere. They're too young. When they're a
Speaker 1: little older, they can fuck around with the drink cart truly,
Speaker 1: like shocks.
Speaker 4: Oscar will spell it all over himself, like it's just
Speaker 4: I can't do. That's a rest. That's a huge risk.
Speaker 1: And honestly, I've gotten them the bisk off and they're
Speaker 1: not huge fans.
Speaker 2: I've gotten them the cuckie thing. Don't give me the cheese,
Speaker 2: It's give me the breath right now. That have Albone's
Speaker 2: fucking gummy bears better than they're weird vegan things they had.
Speaker 4: I fucking shout out Delta for those gummy bears.
Speaker 2: Okay, and I don't even eat them on the plane,
Speaker 2: but I take two or three throat in my purse
Speaker 2: and I have a little gummy snack everywhere I go.
Speaker 4: It's awesome.
Speaker 1: Oscar will love that. He's a gummy He's a gummy head.
Speaker 2: You gotta be you gotta be sitting, you know, comfort.
Speaker 2: These are comfort snacks. Though, these are comfort stacks.
Speaker 1: You know. I don't find my kids comfort. Come on,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that.
Speaker 4: They don't.
Speaker 1: They're basically a coach seat is delta one for them.
Speaker 1: They can like lie down if you just recline at
Speaker 1: two inches. But yeah, spring Break.
Speaker 2: I saw some clip, you know, it's like mana sphere
Speaker 2: time and everyone's like ride a pill and all whatever.
Speaker 2: The internet and I saw like some clip and it
Speaker 2: was oh, some guy was like, yeah, I go to
Speaker 2: spring break man and with the girls, and the other
Speaker 2: guy goes thirty two, what do you mean spring break?
Speaker 1: It's not for you, you know, it's for the kids.
Speaker 1: What are you breaking from?
Speaker 2: And I just I thought that was like really funny
Speaker 2: where it's like, no, you're a fucking creep if you're
Speaker 2: going to spring break to like hit on girls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a grown man. It's like it's for the youth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like I'm going down to Miami for spring break?
Speaker 1: What or like Fort Lauderdale. Oh my god, that's for
Speaker 1: twenty five and under.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, I think that's another strong opinion up
Speaker 2: top for back to back episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even like just after college, I don't really or
Speaker 1: maybe grad school. I'm like, I don't know how you're
Speaker 1: getting the time off work to go to a place
Speaker 1: that's going to be really crowded and it's more expensive
Speaker 1: because of the time of year that you're going.
Speaker 4: But people likes a party. I get it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, but the it's probably also a lot
Speaker 1: of freaks and creeps because like I was on spring
Speaker 1: break as a seventeen year old and there were definitely
Speaker 1: older bro Skuys there, you know.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so.
Speaker 1: You know, the Epstein vibes are everywhere. But but that's
Speaker 1: not what we came here to talk about. Later, we
Speaker 1: came well topping different this time it's different. Wait, you
Speaker 1: were in Vermont. I'm going to New Hampshire this weekend.
Speaker 1: I'm going very close to Vermont and a Vermont, but
Speaker 1: what love Vermont?
Speaker 2: I went to the d One Girls Lacrosse conference game theory.
Speaker 4: I played lacrosse in high school.
Speaker 2: Right, I don't know, but I assume you know, it's
Speaker 2: a very new England thing because it's very East Coast.
Speaker 4: We don't have it.
Speaker 2: But it is also Native American, which I did not
Speaker 2: know and was stolen, but but it was basically I
Speaker 2: saw the bus of the opposing team in the hotel
Speaker 2: parking lot and I go, what the fuck's going on?
Speaker 2: We're going We're going the Retrievers, a Maryland team.
Speaker 4: It was like US MBC or something.
Speaker 2: I'm inventing letters, but it was the Retrievers versus the Catamounts,
Speaker 2: which is crazy but it's some whatever. But yeah, we
Speaker 2: ran into some well, like I guess, I kept calling
Speaker 2: it u of M and then someone DM me and
Speaker 2: was like it's UVM please.
Speaker 4: From like the show.
Speaker 2: But it was a conference game eleven am Saturday morning
Speaker 2: and we were and I couldn't well. I did the
Speaker 2: classic thing where I was about to buy tickets and
Speaker 2: Katie the comic co open for me, was like, I
Speaker 2: think there'll be tickets available, like you don't have.
Speaker 1: To work at the door. Yeah, it's women's sports, it'll
Speaker 1: be fine. But you actually nailed it. It's UNBC. I
Speaker 1: mean you got the letters completely right. Oh yeah, University
Speaker 1: of Maryland, Baltimore County.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yes we met those parents. But I don't know what
Speaker 2: glitched in my brain. I forgot that it was outside.
Speaker 2: Like I had my airport sweatpants and sweatshirts, so like
Speaker 2: I had warmer clothes and I even brought a hat,
Speaker 2: but it didn't click it would be outside. So we're approaching,
Speaker 2: we get dropped off and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I am wearing Swiss she ankle pants, like open, like loose,
Speaker 2: fake denim ankle pants and a crop top polo and
Speaker 2: just my coat and I go, oh my god. And
Speaker 2: then it starts snowing, hurt inning, like I mean, not it.
Speaker 2: I saw your stories. I was like, what's happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I went to support the girls and we stayed until
Speaker 2: like fourth the fourth quarter, and then during halftime though,
Speaker 2: we snuck into the ice skating rink at UVM and
Speaker 2: took a bunch of photos and I acted out scenes
Speaker 2: from the show and like, yeah, hilarious, Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So I had fun at the empty ice skating rink
Speaker 2: and then the girls were amazing u VM one and
Speaker 2: we'll see where the girls conference team goes.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, I hope you guys make it all the way,
Speaker 4: all the way.
Speaker 1: Amazing food, amazing crowds, like it was awesome. Wait did
Speaker 1: you go to Ahead of the Wood?
Speaker 4: Of course?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I saw bread. Yeah I saw your bread. You didn't
Speaker 1: even tag it. I was like, she's a handle of
Speaker 1: the wood. We've never gone there together, have we?
Speaker 4: We tried? We could.
Speaker 2: I went once with Jared, but then it was it
Speaker 2: was before the shows. What's awesome is Thursday. It's one show,
Speaker 2: not too so. We had a nine o'clock reservation and
Speaker 2: something that's never happened to me was our waitress went,
Speaker 2: you can't get two desserts. You really can't. It'll be
Speaker 2: too much. I think you guys have had enough. And
Speaker 2: we're like what. She goes, I just don't want you
Speaker 2: to feel sick, Like how are you feeling? And we
Speaker 2: went we're really full. She goes, just please just get one.
Speaker 2: It's like, you, dumb bitch, I'm selling you down. So
Speaker 2: I got. We both were like, we've never had that.
Speaker 2: She goes, I just don't want you feeling like shit.
Speaker 2: She's like, I just don't know if there's room for both,
Speaker 2: but I've been dreaming about the other dessert I didn't
Speaker 2: get and I should have said, shut up, let me
Speaker 2: have it.
Speaker 1: But you could have taken one bite and brought it home.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: I was thinking. I listened to her.
Speaker 2: But we did have like four things I guess with
Speaker 2: the our restaurants so fucking good.
Speaker 4: It's so good.
Speaker 2: And then we also went to Henry's like diner counter
Speaker 2: so like we got cornbief, hash eggs, sausage, bisiness, gits,
Speaker 2: gravy like breakfast potatoes with all this stuff want it like,
Speaker 2: we just had the best I fucking love Vermont. I
Speaker 2: love going there. I love how wabas and honey. Did
Speaker 2: I go out Friday night get blacked the fuck out?
Speaker 4: Or was it? Yeah? I did, I really did.
Speaker 2: We went to JP's, we karaoke, We went to a
Speaker 2: Middle Eastern Ali Baba's. We stay there until four in
Speaker 2: the morning. We went to the hotel lobby. We still
Speaker 2: didn't stop, Like I just it was a really fun trip.
Speaker 2: That's fun, so thank you to everyone that came to
Speaker 2: the show. Is such great audience, and like the club
Speaker 2: also has such good cocktails.
Speaker 4: It's really impressive. So yeah, all around the ring club
Speaker 4: are great, great people.
Speaker 2: But then I felt really cool because at the Ali
Speaker 2: Baba's it was the end of the night and the
Speaker 2: guy yelled, everyone get the fuck out, it's done, and
Speaker 2: so we start like packing our shit up, and he goes,
Speaker 2: not you two, I'm not yelling at you. And I mean,
Speaker 2: that was my first time there, Like.
Speaker 1: Like you say, or was he just not being met?
Speaker 4: Like we got to be like the last people to go.
Speaker 1: Wow, we got to like chill out, like I love
Speaker 1: that I met.
Speaker 2: I met a young swiftie. I bonded with him like
Speaker 2: at the bar. And then we also like there is
Speaker 2: a voice of an angel singing. There was a voice
Speaker 2: of an angel at that karaoke. We were like her
Speaker 2: number one fans. And then her guy friend obviously is
Speaker 2: in love with her and we tried to help them.
Speaker 2: There was a there was a bachelorette party with a
Speaker 2: mean bride and you can tell all her friends hated her.
Speaker 2: I mean, I had the time of my life in
Speaker 2: for a month.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: I was just at live band karaoke two nights ago.
Speaker 4: Live band. Wow.
Speaker 1: Really fine? More pressure, more pressure, Yeah, And then they
Speaker 1: only have three hundred songs because they have to know
Speaker 1: the song. So it's kind of good because they pick,
Speaker 1: like it's not like people picking like totally random shit
Speaker 1: you've never heard of. You know, it's mostly but one
Speaker 1: girl did get up and do Fiona Apple's Criminal and
Speaker 1: she just did not know the tune of it. But
Speaker 1: besides that, like there was a lot of fun people
Speaker 1: that went no angels.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say, but I kept not knowing songs that
Speaker 2: everyone knew. And Katie turns to me and goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: you probably didn't know someone that died in Afghanistan, and
Speaker 2: I go, that is true, and that's what's the song.
Speaker 2: There was just hit after hit where everyone was like
Speaker 2: rocking out and I was like, I've never heard this.
Speaker 2: And then when she said that, all these other guys
Speaker 2: are like, that's it, and it's like they have all
Speaker 2: just had tragedy because of war, and so they like
Speaker 2: relate to these weird rock songs. And I'm just waiting
Speaker 2: for like Pink Pony Club to arrive. You know what,
Speaker 2: I got it, I've never heard this in my like.
Speaker 1: This is how you remind me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I know that's so. But in that genre,
Speaker 2: and but that was a that was a bigger song.
Speaker 2: I do know that song, okay, but yeah, like songs
Speaker 2: like that. So that made me laugh. Did you sing?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: It was full. Literally when we wandered in there, it
Speaker 1: was like, the list is pretty full, but if you
Speaker 1: want to try, I was like, I'm not even gonna try,
Speaker 1: but we might go back.
Speaker 2: Oh and then someone told me to go to Artists
Speaker 2: Baker or whatever.
Speaker 4: I went.
Speaker 2: Whoever suggested August First. I went to August First as well.
Speaker 2: The best Blueberr muffin I've ever had.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: This is a Vermont tourist guide, a Burlington, a guy
Speaker 1: of Burlington.
Speaker 4: I always have fun.
Speaker 2: And the thing is like I talked to some people
Speaker 2: after the show and they're like, you're just kidding about
Speaker 2: loving Vermont, right, like you don't actually love it. I go,
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm performing in a strip mall forty miles outside
Speaker 2: of the town.
Speaker 4: I go, you don't understand.
Speaker 2: This is like, no, this is like the greatest, one
Speaker 2: of the greatest weekends on my calendar. And I'm fine
Speaker 2: to be in these weird towns next to a Jimmy John's.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm easy at an egg white bite like
Speaker 2: I am easy to entertain.
Speaker 4: I'm happy. But yeah, Vermont is definitely like No, Burlington's
Speaker 4: cute as fuck.
Speaker 1: It's great. Yeah, it's so great. I can't believe you
Speaker 1: went to a lacrosse game.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I used to play lacrosse in high school and I
Speaker 1: had a wooden stick, not the plastic wood harder.
Speaker 2: To I don't know the I mean for a while,
Speaker 2: I couldn't even see when the goals are being scored.
Speaker 4: It's a really hard. I know the ball so fast,
Speaker 4: it's just so many skills.
Speaker 2: I just so now they catch it in that little stick,
Speaker 2: like I don't, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I liked that it was up in the air versus
Speaker 1: down on the ground like field hockey.
Speaker 4: Like when I tried to.
Speaker 1: Play field hockey, I was like, I'm.
Speaker 4: Like, my back is hurting. I don't like being hunched over.
Speaker 1: Like like you know what it's like when you when
Speaker 1: someone like throws you something and you use like something
Speaker 1: else to grab it. That's like what it feels like
Speaker 1: to me, Like, Lookross, it's like or like when you're
Speaker 1: jumping off a diving board and someone like throws you
Speaker 1: a frisbee and you have to like jump forward to
Speaker 1: get it. I'm always like, you're always just like trying
Speaker 1: to get a ball that's like right in front of
Speaker 1: you or up in the air, and not like you
Speaker 1: do have to scoop it off the ground of course
Speaker 1: plenty of times, but it's not all on the ground
Speaker 1: the way field hockey is, which was not for me, but.
Speaker 2: No, but it was like glorious and like, also, no
Speaker 2: one has better ponytails, Let's be honest. I mean, those
Speaker 2: girls are running like the best ponytails I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: Also, I'm so fucking pissitate. Didn't I tell you that?
Speaker 2: Back Ammon's about to have a moment. Back Ammon's about
Speaker 2: to fucking have a moment. Cult Gaya is selling a
Speaker 2: five hundred and ninety eight dollars purse that turns into
Speaker 2: a backgammon board.
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't. I'm trying to get my stylists
Speaker 1: to get it for me. She's like, do you have
Speaker 1: any events? I go, no, I go, I don't know.
Speaker 1: You gotta get it for me, get it, you gotta
Speaker 1: get this for me.
Speaker 2: Well, I send it to the group chat and my
Speaker 2: family goes, please don't spend your money on it. I
Speaker 2: go I'm not gonna die. I'm not gonna buy it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try to get it for free. But backgammon clutch.
Speaker 1: God, how does it? Does it fit? Other shit?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: You you would bring it to the backgammon game?
Speaker 2: Yeah baby, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so cute. Fuck I
Speaker 2: want it so bad. Cult Gaya do you work here?
Speaker 2: Do you listen to us?
Speaker 4: Cold Guia?
Speaker 2: I've never heard of it in my life, but someone
Speaker 2: must be connected. Must someone listening? Remember I got Taco
Speaker 2: Bell gift cards from the podcast, Like people here are
Speaker 2: doing stuff.
Speaker 1: If you know anybody at calt Gaya, we need a
Speaker 1: up for this five.
Speaker 4: I'm a batgammin girl.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yuh wait did I tell you we
Speaker 1: had the elections and I'm the PTA president next year?
Speaker 4: No, that's crazy that you just sat on that information.
Speaker 1: It happened.
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is, I can't even no one's surprised. No,
Speaker 2: it was honestly silly. You pretended this wasn't your Like.
Speaker 1: I thought I could put it off another year, but
Speaker 1: they wouldn't let me do that.
Speaker 2: Well, you also, there's just no way that that's the
Speaker 2: part of what you want to do. Listen to other people.
Speaker 1: No, I was going to be the vice again.
Speaker 4: You want you wanted it, you want to be in charge.
Speaker 2: I'm doing Blenny has the Vice. Oh it's too much,
Speaker 2: it's too much. So what's the new thing our people do?
Speaker 2: They have to pledge allegiance to you, like, what kind
Speaker 2: of what kind of vibrant?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm planning a full authoritarian government, like I'm
Speaker 1: just going to overthrow everybody, and yeah, I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: people's lives a living hell. So if you listen to
Speaker 1: this podcast and some people do that, go to my school,
Speaker 1: buckle the fuck up. I'm about to root fall.
Speaker 4: Class is gonna be insane.
Speaker 2: Yeah, open open your trunks, motherfuckers, and we're leasing there.
Speaker 1: Trunkard treat is about to pop the fuck off. But
Speaker 1: uh no, congratulations, I mean thanks, thank you. It was
Speaker 1: a hotly contested race.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a Simpsons episode called The PTA Disbands.
Speaker 4: If you want to watch it, No big deal. I
Speaker 4: bet I'll really relate.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I think I'm gonna do something for passovers. Yes, oh,
Speaker 2: like a satyr. Yeah, oh my god, I'm It's during
Speaker 2: spring break, which is so annoying because I get invited
Speaker 2: always it's always around me. It's actually, when we were kids,
Speaker 2: it was always around my sister's birthday and she was
Speaker 2: always fucked. But yeah, not anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Matza for your birthday is not fun. Well let's
Speaker 1: get started. What do you think I would love to?
Speaker 1: I would love to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is thanks everyone for supporting us in every capacity.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is a great episode we have for you today,
Speaker 1: as always, come on over and see us on the Patreon,
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash that's messed up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're having fun on the Patreon. We're having guests.
Speaker 2: We're we're not reading the books, but we've we're having
Speaker 2: authors on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, chatting, chatting to the author. Babe, I'm busy. I'm
Speaker 1: reading other I'm heavily perusing. I'm heavily perusing. Sometimes we
Speaker 1: don't have enough time.
Speaker 2: We're gonna do some drag Race stuff soon once the season's.
Speaker 1: Uh oh yes, if you want our drag Race takes,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be on Patreon. I'm excited because, oh I
Speaker 1: haven't even watched it. I know, but I like a
Speaker 1: few of these girls. I think there's really some great
Speaker 1: stuff on there. No, I'm home for five weeks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit on the couch. Yes, you're gonna get it.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna watch all of drag Race in one fucking
Speaker 2: day while I declutter.
Speaker 1: And was I was talking about it with you. I
Speaker 1: think on this podcast about like how do you fucking
Speaker 1: watch drag Race? Like because I got rid of my
Speaker 1: cable and that's like I was watching it on MTV
Speaker 1: like DVR it. I just buy it on iTunes and.
Speaker 4: It's just there the next morning.
Speaker 1: I just can't watch it on Fridays like when it
Speaker 1: comes out, but it pops up first thing Saturday morning.
Speaker 4: That was so easy. It was like twenty dollars.
Speaker 1: I thought I was good to do all kinds of shit.
Speaker 4: We're in the We're in the time machine.
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna be up tonight twelve oh one am.
Speaker 2: The Heated Rivalry vinyl and CDs go on sale and
Speaker 2: I'll give the soundtrack. Oh it's both. It's like soundtrack
Speaker 2: and score. And they're they look so cool. It's like
Speaker 2: their photos are on the discs. It's like Taylor Swift hardcore,
Speaker 2: like it is cool. There's posters in it, like they're
Speaker 2: doing their their their numbers are on the CDs. It's doubles.
Speaker 2: It's double sets, like it's Sony Music Entertainment. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: hope you guys got it. I'm staying up because I
Speaker 2: looked up the exact time because I don't know if
Speaker 2: it was gonna be ten am. But it's twelve o
Speaker 2: one am. It says I can get it on twelve
Speaker 2: on four eight. No, none of these people are getting
Speaker 2: it. It's while we're recording, we're in the time machine.
Speaker 4: They're not getting it.
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry guys. No, it's a pre order, and so
Speaker 2: I that would just fine. Smart they're doing a pre order.
Speaker 1: Oh so nothing will sell it, but I'm gonna be first, Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: I've stunned you into silence. Yeah, well I just yeah,
Speaker 1: that's yeah, We're.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't I have no words. I have no words.
Speaker 1: You're getting all the stuff, you're getting, all the.
Speaker 4: Not all of it.
Speaker 1: I've actually had like a lot of restraints. I wish
Speaker 1: I could like go on that brand, like you know
Speaker 1: that website that's called like Calshie, where you can like
Speaker 1: bet on anything, like you can bet on like the Rapture,
Speaker 1: you can bet on like who's Trump's gonna fire next?
Speaker 1: I wish I could like put in a bet where
Speaker 1: and of like what your next thing is going to be? Like,
Speaker 1: or I could like see what is the next thing
Speaker 1: that you're gonna be?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, wait put it on.
Speaker 2: It's on the pod our listeners will remember you got
Speaker 2: let's let's bet, Casey get in this. I don't get it.
Speaker 2: What is it called chat roulette, polymarket, let's do it?
Speaker 2: Chat roulette? Oh my god, chat roulette.
Speaker 1: That was just like jerk off Roulette. That was such
Speaker 1: a crazy time. Oh my god, Oh my god. Also
Speaker 1: Julio Tarres.
Speaker 2: Watch it on HBO Color Theories whatever special is called.
Speaker 2: It is awesome. I went to the PREMIEHBO HBO. I
Speaker 2: went to the premiere at the Museum of Art and Design.
Speaker 2: It was funny because he is vegan. There were passed
Speaker 2: around animal products, but the the the fucking the food
Speaker 2: was vegan, and I'm like, who's eating lentils at a party?
Speaker 2: But people were, But I'm like, this is not my spread.
Speaker 2: I got a falafel patty and put it in between
Speaker 2: some pedas like people are like swooping up beans, Like
Speaker 2: what the fuck's happening?
Speaker 1: No, No, we talked about this. He's from another planet. The
Speaker 1: food is not for you on this planet.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 1: It's called Color Theories, and it came out March twenty seven,
Speaker 1: so go check it out.
Speaker 4: It really.
Speaker 1: It's so good and fun and I'm gonna peda great
Speaker 1: he's a great man's he's a he's a unique mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was just like awesome. I just love
Speaker 2: the arts. I really love the arts.
Speaker 1: I just remember when we were in New York and
Speaker 1: Julia was like telling me about the whole process of
Speaker 1: getting like a visa as an extraordinary artist, and I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, it must be like really hard to
Speaker 1: prove that you're like an extraordinary artist. And now he
Speaker 1: is truly like one of the most extraordinary artists that
Speaker 1: I think I know personally, you know, like he really
Speaker 1: is not like anybody else. It's you know, like I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's plenty of guys that are just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I need to tell my dick jokes. I'm extraordinary, let
Speaker 1: me in. You know, He's like really a different kind
Speaker 1: of comedian now. Anyway, It's really.
Speaker 2: I was I laughed a lot and just so clever,
Speaker 2: like fuck, it's cool, what cause you know, there's there's
Speaker 2: different experiences when you see stuff and sometimes you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: why didn't I Like you're mad someone came up with
Speaker 2: it before. You're like, oh, that's such a good joke,
Speaker 2: like I can't believe and think about it, yeah and whatever.
Speaker 2: And then there's the other words like I could never
Speaker 2: even comprehend what is anigh that.
Speaker 1: A jillion dollars enough come up with this?
Speaker 2: Yes, and I would say him and Natalie Paula Metis
Speaker 2: both have like very cool ways of set design and
Speaker 2: using the set and it constantly surprising you.
Speaker 1: And I like that, and I like, I'm gonna watch it.
Speaker 1: I got a lot of I'm gonna watch a bunch
Speaker 1: of stand up I think this one. Yeah, we gotta
Speaker 1: get into Chris Chris Fleming, because you know what, Chris
Speaker 1: and we already talking about him.
Speaker 4: They talked about what I can't.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna we talked about him, We've tked about him.
Speaker 4: We love Chris Fleming.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's let's start the episode. No no, please, that's
Speaker 1: messed up Live for Liza's schedule for merch et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera.
Speaker 4: And now on with the episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, nine one one dispatcher, we hear a kid's voice,
Speaker 2: little kid named Sam, not Tommy.
Speaker 4: Shocking.
Speaker 2: We should be saying that Tommy is more often because
Speaker 2: anytime I meet a Tommy, they're like, I'm a Tommy,
Speaker 2: but we really are, say we have actually don't say
Speaker 2: it ever.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I put it in our in our
Speaker 1: social Sometimes I'll be like Tommy Nation and Tommy, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: rise up, Tommy's no Sam's if you're a Sam, sorry,
Speaker 1: don't come up to it.
Speaker 4: And I'm just kidding, Lisa.
Speaker 1: Don't you usually introduce the title of the episode and
Speaker 1: the episode number.
Speaker 2: Listen, Casey, I don't know why that happened. I don't
Speaker 2: know why whatever, whatever. It's episode two seventy nine.
Speaker 4: I forget.
Speaker 2: It's called Father Dearest, which obviously a chill down my spine.
Speaker 2: Season thirteen, episode twenty May second, twenty twelve is the
Speaker 2: air date. That's my niece's birthday and my friend Alex
Speaker 2: Crawley's birthday. So Taurus is okay. But anyway, so a
Speaker 2: kid's calling nine one one. The woman's actually nice and
Speaker 2: proficient in her job. The kid's only three three and
Speaker 2: a half. That's a smart kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I feel bad saying this, but like
Speaker 1: my kids don't know how to open my phone.
Speaker 4: So like if I was lying there on the ground.
Speaker 1: I don't like I always tell them if anything happens
Speaker 1: to us, go next door and get our neighbors, because
Speaker 1: they know our neighbors. But like, I don't think they
Speaker 1: would know they know nine one one, but I don't
Speaker 1: think they could use our phone.
Speaker 4: And we don't have landlines anymore. But you're know, the
Speaker 4: emergency calls.
Speaker 1: Go, but I have it, but they don't know how to, like,
Speaker 1: they don't know how to do that, right, Like even
Speaker 1: in a lock screen, you got like you got to
Speaker 1: get to the nine one one part.
Speaker 4: You need to get a house phone.
Speaker 3: I know, I know.
Speaker 2: All right, well let's get positive. Let's get positive where
Speaker 2: it's a good episode. It's a good horrific episode. So
Speaker 2: he goes, Mommy is asleep, won't wake up. It's just her.
Speaker 2: The big sister left. He's super cute, little blonde kid.
Speaker 2: He says, my big sister was mad and the woman's
Speaker 2: trying to locate him and she has like an area,
Speaker 2: but since it's a cell phone, it's it's taking a
Speaker 2: little bit again. Yeah, the house phones you can like
Speaker 2: find where someone is so yeah, he has blood on
Speaker 2: his hands and phone and he touches like a bloody
Speaker 2: body that's on the ground, and Olivia a Marre at
Speaker 2: the door. Sam opens the door, is a little mismatched pajamas.
Speaker 2: He's super cute, and the mom is like fuck rags
Speaker 2: all vibes, and Olivia takes Sam and he says she
Speaker 2: was sleeping, and then his mom and sister started fighting
Speaker 2: about a bad man taking his sister away. She comforts
Speaker 2: the boy and says she's gonna and then he's gonna
Speaker 2: be okay, and then she touches his face and it's
Speaker 2: the credits, and I feel like that's really quick for
Speaker 2: season thirteen. And season thirteen is like so wild to
Speaker 2: watch because it is such a transitional year. Like I
Speaker 2: don't know, it's really it's wild to think about. But anyways,
Speaker 2: they really have the big guns. I mean, we're gonna
Speaker 2: get to the guest stars in this but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of the others. I want to
Speaker 2: look through season thirteen and be like, what did they
Speaker 2: do to try to like woo the viewers besides Rowlin's
Speaker 2: and Tomorrow being so hot? But you know what I mean, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like I want to do a little thesis statement. Okay,
Speaker 2: So the little boy is sleeping in the hospital, Benson's
Speaker 2: tucking him in. The dad is on the way, and
Speaker 2: the mom is getting an MRI. So she's not dead,
Speaker 2: which is huge, and there's a giant gash on her head.
Speaker 2: But like the kid is under four and we can't
Speaker 2: really tell him what's up.
Speaker 4: This is wild.
Speaker 2: But he heard his mom and sister fighting, so like
Speaker 2: that's important. The dad, Jeff Avery, arrives. He is very
Speaker 2: loving towards his son. He's like, where's Kate but we
Speaker 2: don't know, and she's only sixteen. He can't get a
Speaker 2: hold of her either, because she was texting at breakfast
Speaker 2: and so he took her phone away. This is so
Speaker 2: season thirteen. There's no fucking way that would fly today.
Speaker 2: He would be actually murdered before anything happened that night,
Speaker 2: and so then tomorrow turns it quick and suspicious.
Speaker 1: Where were you tonight? And the dad's face like, you know,
Speaker 1: like make furrows? Is that a word? I wrote?
Speaker 4: Furrows? But brow?
Speaker 2: Yeah, your brows. He says he was with his sisters
Speaker 2: cleaning out his mom's apartment. She died last week from cancer,
Speaker 2: so he is having like a pretty tough week. I
Speaker 2: would say, yeah, couple, this is like terrible. And then
Speaker 2: he also screams, hello, my daughter is abducted. Send out
Speaker 2: an ambreller, and Benson's like, well, we can't do that
Speaker 2: since nobody actually saw her being taken. So poor guy,
Speaker 2: his wife's unconscious daughter is missing. Mom is dead. The son,
Speaker 2: you know, is good, but probably traumatized. Annie's proud of
Speaker 2: his young boy, so he says, maybe Angela Riva, like
Speaker 2: her best friend from kindergarten, has information, but you know,
Speaker 2: he doesn't know if she has a boyfriend or goes
Speaker 2: out later anything, but because she blocked him on all socials.
Speaker 2: So they leave, the dad with the son, and Benson
Speaker 2: and Amaro leave and we open up at Angela's house
Speaker 2: and the mom is there as well, and it's with
Speaker 2: Finn and Rollins, and the mom is like, ugh, she
Speaker 2: was our surrogate daughter. She was here every night. She
Speaker 2: never wanted to go home. Uh oh. She told Angela
Speaker 2: to stay away from her though she runs with a
Speaker 2: bad crowd. And her friend is like, no, Mom, I
Speaker 2: told you she's been different. She was at the library
Speaker 2: every night on the computer trying to turn her grades around,
Speaker 2: and then Finn and Rollins are like, Lol, that can't
Speaker 2: be true. So let's go to the library. The librarian's
Speaker 2: a fucking real one and is like get a fucking warrant.
Speaker 2: Pitch like, doesn't even try, and then Finn's like, uh,
Speaker 2: the Patriot Act and the librarian responds, oh, is she
Speaker 2: involved with terrorism now?
Speaker 4: And Rollin's threatens.
Speaker 2: With the FBI and wasting half a day, and It's like,
Speaker 2: what is a librarian so busy? If I was a
Speaker 2: library and I'd be like, waste my day, come back
Speaker 2: so shiny thing? You were like what like that's like
Speaker 2: not that wouldn't be a real threat to me, I think,
Speaker 2: But they do.
Speaker 4: They go, we need to find this girl, and.
Speaker 2: She's like, I just wish you cared about civil liberties
Speaker 2: and they're like we do, just like not right now,
Speaker 2: and then she goes, here are your terror cells information?
Speaker 2: And so in the past month she read the Hunger
Speaker 2: Games trilogy, okay, queen, and then two books on children
Speaker 2: who were born through sperm donation. Done done. So now
Speaker 2: it's a walk and talk. We got munch tomorrow. Benson.
Speaker 2: She's been missing fifteen hours, abducted or run away or
Speaker 2: what no hits on atm no new cell phone contacts
Speaker 2: and Finn and Rollins arrive and there with bead Wong.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, surprise, surprise. So Benson gives him a
Speaker 2: big huh. This was like this I used for one
Speaker 2: of our trivia questions when we went on the road
Speaker 2: years ago, and so like, I loved I like that
Speaker 2: we're doing this. I don't know if this means anything
Speaker 2: to you guys, but so he's in town for a
Speaker 2: convention and they asked if he can help out. He's
Speaker 2: all smiles. Benson asked how his assignment, and he goes,
Speaker 2: a single gay Chinese American man living in Oklahoma and
Speaker 2: opposed to the death penalty.
Speaker 4: It's heaven. So we love that. We love that.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna talk donor children, and he goes, it's
Speaker 2: a huge topic, but sperm banks protect donor confidentiality, but
Speaker 2: nobody really thought about how that affects the kids in
Speaker 2: the future because it's like a newer thing and like
Speaker 2: the kids can get fucked. So then Rollins finds a
Speaker 2: site where these types of people connect and Munch calls
Speaker 2: them Turkey based your children, and bid Wong goes artificial
Speaker 2: insemination and then okay, so that's why the mom and
Speaker 2: daughter were probably fighting. You know, she was looking for
Speaker 2: her roots. What is this about? And then Tomoro gets
Speaker 2: to news the mom is awake, perfect, we meet her.
Speaker 2: Her voice is so smoke or raspy. I really enjoy it.
Speaker 2: She's looking good after like truly a lot of trauma.
Speaker 1: Not even a bandage, not a scar, not a bruise,
Speaker 1: not a scratch, like, she looks fine.
Speaker 2: She says she just slipped and fell. And they're like, well,
Speaker 2: what's what's with the bad man? She blames his imagination.
Speaker 2: They're pushing her and they're like, you were fighting. You
Speaker 2: need to tell us what it's about. So Benson's like, listen,
Speaker 2: we know she was looking for donor relatives, so if
Speaker 2: she knew something like you obviously know, so what's what's
Speaker 2: up dramatic music? She goes, my husband can never know.
Speaker 2: Kate was conceived with donor sperm I found online and
Speaker 2: I guess she was. She was going to go meet
Speaker 2: him and she's like, no, you're not going. And then
Speaker 2: the daughter, Kate's like, I don't give a fuck. So
Speaker 2: that's what they thought about. And then twelve years later
Speaker 2: she actually used the same sample to have her son,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, well, how did she find out? And
Speaker 2: you know, she's like, listen, I don't want my husband
Speaker 2: to know. But she was making a memory book for
Speaker 2: her grandmother going through old photo boxes. She found a
Speaker 2: medical card for the sperm bank and donor one for one.
Speaker 1: So that sucks. And then they leave and of course,
Speaker 1: like why do you even have to keep it again?
Speaker 1: Why did you keep that? Why did they explain why
Speaker 1: she is not telling her husband about that?
Speaker 2: Well, because maybe wanted that sperm he his sperm wasn't working,
Speaker 2: or maybe she thinks he's a loser.
Speaker 4: Like I don't know, Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that that's like even more interesting. And she's like,
Speaker 1: I'll be married to you, but like you're actually not
Speaker 1: really good DNA for this. No, I'm sure he was
Speaker 1: shooting blanks or something like I don't know.
Speaker 4: I guess I don't know. Yeah, why did I forgot?
Speaker 4: Like I just watched it, but I forgot.
Speaker 2: Or she did it to trap him, maybe like she
Speaker 2: got like he was actually careful and then she like
Speaker 2: went and did this to trap him.
Speaker 1: But then she has kids that are twelve years apart
Speaker 1: and she found the same sperms.
Speaker 2: Interesting, listen, this woman seems like a drunk, like I
Speaker 2: don't know, she just like been wasted making bad decisions.
Speaker 2: So they leave, and of course Tomorrow hates this family
Speaker 2: secret and the man not knowing because he's thinking about
Speaker 2: his wife whatever, like his wife lied to him and
Speaker 2: manipulated him, and Benson goes, shut up. So we get
Speaker 2: a hit on the debit card of the daughter twenty
Speaker 2: four dollars at a Lincoln Center cafe. So we see
Speaker 2: a denim jacket, swoop bang. Girl wired headphones into her
Speaker 2: cell phone and she's a bright orange case. She's listening
Speaker 2: to some old timy song which doesn't seem right, and
Speaker 2: then the cops arrive. Finn and Rollins are on the
Speaker 2: scene and they're like, your mom's looking for you, and
Speaker 2: she starts looking around and Rollin's goes, who are you expecting, sweetie.
Speaker 2: So we're in woodroom blinds. Benson and Rollins sit with
Speaker 2: the teen, trying to get to the bottom of what
Speaker 2: went down. She screams that she did nothing wrong, and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, babe, you left your three year old brother
Speaker 2: at home and your mom unconscious, So that tass you,
Speaker 2: and she says she was drinking and fell.
Speaker 4: That's not, you know, my fault.
Speaker 2: They don't care about me and I don't care about them,
Speaker 2: and it's like, what do you mean they don't care
Speaker 2: about you? She says, they lied to me my whole life,
Speaker 2: and they're like, your dad doesn't know. Actually, keep a secret.
Speaker 2: Jka mentioned keep this chill. Yeah, Benson goes, okay, but
Speaker 2: you're sixteen and you were gone all night with a
Speaker 2: man you met on the internet. And then at that moment,
Speaker 2: Munch brings in the dad and he is like so
Speaker 2: happy to see her, and she just says, oh, here
Speaker 2: to clean up another mess, dad, And then they leave
Speaker 2: and then my favorite thing happens Chinese takeout. So the
Speaker 2: thing is like Chinese takeout for me is such a
Speaker 2: like Sunday night or like celebratory like night time, like
Speaker 2: to do a working Chinese food lunch seems wild. Maybe
Speaker 2: they're just eating fried rice, but like am I head?
Speaker 2: I want orange chicken, I want an egg roll, and
Speaker 2: like that's not daytime hours for me.
Speaker 1: It's just too it feels heavy to do, Like I
Speaker 1: want to lay after I eat a lot of Chinese food,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know there's other kinds that are lighter.
Speaker 2: This is like, yeah, what they're eating, I know what
Speaker 2: it is, and it's low main and I don't know
Speaker 2: how like are they all going into the you know,
Speaker 2: bunk bedroom for a nap after?
Speaker 4: I just don't get it.
Speaker 1: But a work in Chinese takeout munch is really crazy,
Speaker 1: and let's do It's like, Okay, we're in advertising.
Speaker 4: It's ten PM and we have to pull an all night.
Speaker 1: Or like let's fuck up our lives, like yeah, but
Speaker 1: not mid investigation. It does feel like nighttime food. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it feels like we got to go through all these files.
Speaker 1: We need this. But Craigan wants these d D fives
Speaker 1: on his desk like it's nighttime.
Speaker 2: Or it's like, listen, we're gonna watch college basketball all
Speaker 2: day if that's your thing.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But the playan can't be like we're going to do
Speaker 2: this and solve a crime and then maybe go out
Speaker 2: on a date after. So they're looking at footage from
Speaker 2: the cafe and then Benson goes up to like the
Speaker 2: projectory video and she's holding the takeout in her hand
Speaker 2: and I just love it. And so then so then
Speaker 2: Benson goes, this guy's clearly a professional because like they're
Speaker 2: you know, like his back to the camera the whole time,
Speaker 2: and then as soon as she charged the coffees, he
Speaker 2: got up to leave. And Rollin's has been trolling the
Speaker 2: sperm Donor forum and has found four other girls posting
Speaker 2: about donor. One for one Rollin's messy bun one of
Speaker 2: the best I've ever seen, award worthy. I would put
Speaker 2: it in the top five nominations of the whole series.
Speaker 2: It's like so good. And then one girl from Baltimore writes, like,
Speaker 2: I went to NYC to meet my donor dad, and like,
Speaker 2: I encourage all of you to do it. He's the best.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, it's weird. They're all girls. That's
Speaker 2: so weird. Yeah, it's so weird. Not a boy, Okay.
Speaker 2: Munch sends the men to charm City and then sends
Speaker 2: the women detectives to the sperm bank. And they're like,
Speaker 2: you're sending us to the sperm bank. They're not gonna
Speaker 2: give us anything, like we don't have enough for a
Speaker 2: warrant and confidentiality, And he leans in and he goes,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you two can think of something and what
Speaker 2: he's thinking is lesbian roleplay. Yes, so baby, they go
Speaker 2: in and as like a gay ass couple and Benson's
Speaker 2: cousin use the sperm bank and their daughter Brook is
Speaker 2: just lovely amazing, so they want to use the same sperm,
Speaker 2: share some jeans, and the woman at the bank says,
Speaker 2: like it happens all the time. So then they say
Speaker 2: Brook is seventeen, and she's like, babe, we might not
Speaker 2: have that sperm, but I'll check and it's donor one
Speaker 2: for one, ding ding ding. They ran out five years ago.
Speaker 2: He was very popular. They asked to see the profile
Speaker 2: and she agrees. She's like, maybe we can look at
Speaker 2: it and pick someone close to him. Doesn't give a fuck.
Speaker 2: They're acting's top notch. So we find other girls. So
Speaker 2: we go see Ashley Riggs. She has bangs. Ryan Shane
Speaker 2: did the pod right, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's in
Speaker 2: two other SVUS season nineteen and twenty three, and she's.
Speaker 4: Been just messed up.
Speaker 1: She's a Carresi, a cares Nisi. She's niece Caresy. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, she's niece Cresy. But this is her first
Speaker 1: appearance on the show.
Speaker 4: So here it's different.
Speaker 2: The mom knows they connected and vibed like they were emailing.
Speaker 2: The mom's all for it, and she went with her
Speaker 2: theater group to a Memorial Day weekend school trip to NYC,
Speaker 2: and it just worked to meet up. And then doctor
Speaker 2: Baker is a she says, but he has his own
Speaker 2: family that can't know about me. But he's one of
Speaker 2: the best doctors in New York ex vivo lung transplants. Okay,
Speaker 2: he saves lives, He feels close to God when he
Speaker 2: holds their life in his hands. Is like something that
Speaker 2: he says that she repeats, but she's like, I've only
Speaker 2: met him that one time. And then she clearly lies
Speaker 2: because she's like, well, I just met him that one time.
Speaker 2: Between Broadway shows. We saw Phanom of the Opera, and
Speaker 2: tomorrow goes, who I guess loves Broadway, tests her and
Speaker 2: tries to catch her in a lie and brings up
Speaker 2: a les Mis reference about going to jail for stealing
Speaker 2: like a loaf of bread. Yeah, and she goes, I
Speaker 2: loved that part. So then she goes and she has
Speaker 2: a fucking baby. She's a teen mom dramatic music, so
Speaker 2: everyone's very supportive. So that's going They're like who's the dad,
Speaker 2: and the grandma is like, oh god, that Joey, Like fuck,
Speaker 2: you know, he's a kid, He's shy, sickly, everyone bullies him.
Speaker 2: I would have never thought I had to worry about
Speaker 2: this loser. Baby's three months old and tomorrow uses his
Speaker 2: own tissue to steal DNA from the baby.
Speaker 1: And I love a sneak. I mean this episode of
Speaker 1: his nose, they get a little booger out of the
Speaker 1: out of a I love a sneaky DNA retrieval. I
Speaker 1: love a takeout.
Speaker 2: I love a messy bunn, I love munch being a pervert.
Speaker 2: Like this episode does have everything. I feel like Stephan.
Speaker 2: I feel like Stephan's the number one character and I
Speaker 2: wouldn't even I think I've mostly watched it online.
Speaker 4: But it does make me laugh more than anything. It's
Speaker 4: the funniest character. I love Steffan.
Speaker 1: Anytime you're doing a list of like three things that
Speaker 1: are out of place, you're like, stuff on. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it has everything.
Speaker 2: So the detectives leave after they got the DNA and
Speaker 2: they're like, do the math, and basically the donor dad
Speaker 2: baby nine months later, like the donor Dade and the
Speaker 2: bio daughter incest fucked, Like, I mean, the ship is fucked.
Speaker 2: So bed Wong's like, okay, it could be a predator
Speaker 2: or it could just be.
Speaker 1: Genital sorry, general sexual attraction. Genetic sexual attraction one of
Speaker 1: our favorite topics on this podcast, which I'm.
Speaker 2: Going to get into more later. I did research this.
Speaker 2: I can't fucking wait.
Speaker 5: Wait.
Speaker 2: Who did we recently have on as a guest And
Speaker 2: we were like, they asked about our favorite episodes and
Speaker 2: we were like, well, the incess that she kept killing
Speaker 2: the babies and couldn't promise not And it's like, it's
Speaker 2: so crazy what we did.
Speaker 4: But you know what fucked me up? Was it?
Speaker 1: It was somebody asking what's your favorite episodes? I think
Speaker 1: it's the guy from this episode we talk. I think
Speaker 1: it's in this episode.
Speaker 4: Actually, oh yeah, I think it's this episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll see who it is.
Speaker 4: Okay, but I, oh, you know what fucked me up?
Speaker 1: And I keep bringing it up and people really don't
Speaker 1: like it. And I brought it up at dinner a
Speaker 1: few nights ago. Is the Green River Killer? Oh, people
Speaker 1: are don't want to hear about that.
Speaker 2: Him bearing the bodies and bringing dates and fucking the
Speaker 2: dates on a blanket on top of the dead body
Speaker 2: is something that it's gonna stick with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet at a party, people are not really
Speaker 1: wanting to hear that.
Speaker 2: No. I was like putting a tentacle of octopus in
Speaker 2: my mouth as I was casually telling everyone about that.
Speaker 1: There's really hard. I feel bad eating octopi.
Speaker 2: And then I also, I fucking I don't even remember
Speaker 2: his name, but the crime I covered where he like
Speaker 2: took the two girls to teach them a lesson and
Speaker 2: was a cop and like hung them by nooses and
Speaker 2: raped them and he only got six months, like because
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 4: Like, that's been fucked for me.
Speaker 2: But the Green River killer with the blanket of it all, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: because that's some sick ass shit. But that's Jimmy side
Speaker 2: because like it really reminds me of the con Air
Speaker 2: Steve Bushami character where it's like, hmm, this is him
Speaker 2: a psycho killer in the movie quote this is not
Speaker 2: how I feel. But he goes, oh, all the greats
Speaker 2: they did it for passion and fun, you know, not for.
Speaker 4: Need or whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't know, M Like, I guess no one knows
Speaker 2: if a date has brought them to a place where
Speaker 2: they've buried a body underneath.
Speaker 4: You thought you had a great picnic.
Speaker 2: He's fucking yeah, chilling out, getting a rock hard thinking
Speaker 2: about the dead woman below like a nightmare. All right,
Speaker 2: we're back. And then I wonder if Benson, munch Huang
Speaker 2: and Finn were like, whoa wait, do you remember that
Speaker 2: redheaded girl who kept killing the babies and fucked her dad?
Speaker 2: Like I wonder if they reminisced off camera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like, we've seen this, We've seen.
Speaker 2: This, like as DETECTI like they must be like remember
Speaker 2: that other time, Like I've never seen that unless it's
Speaker 2: like so pivotal to.
Speaker 4: The crime they're solving in that episode.
Speaker 2: We don't really get reflections back er chats, and I
Speaker 2: would love if they were one time being like, you know,
Speaker 2: this really reminds me of that, uh the other I
Speaker 2: don't just for us, but I guess that'd be like
Speaker 2: alienating to some viewers. Okay, so all right whatever, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah, we gotta find him. So obviously, I don't
Speaker 2: know what x vivo means. It reminds me of a
Speaker 2: brand of paper towels, but the.
Speaker 1: Ex Vivo lung transplants, it's like a technique where like,
Speaker 1: you keep a lung in a certain condition so that
Speaker 1: it's in better like to be transplantable, Like I obviously
Speaker 1: just googled it, but it's like, you keep the lung
Speaker 1: outside the body at normal temperature so that you can
Speaker 1: recondition it before transplantation. And it significantly expands the donor
Speaker 1: pool by making previously unusable or marginal lungs safer transplant.
Speaker 4: So it makes lung transplants more readily available, which is good,
Speaker 4: yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's a very seems very fucking specific, so specific,
Speaker 1: but yeah.
Speaker 2: So they find him easily, Colin Barnes, MD. So they
Speaker 2: watch a video of him and he says the exact
Speaker 2: quote about being close to God in the same ways
Speaker 2: that Ashley did it. So we make a house call.
Speaker 2: They go to Colin and Annie Barnes home, but they're
Speaker 2: having a big part. The mom's holding a tiny baby,
Speaker 2: the dad's wearing a tie that's very spring and it's
Speaker 2: an event and they bring up the sperm daughter stuff
Speaker 2: and he's like, it's a mistake and Benson goes, well,
Speaker 2: you got to clear it up. Then we see Taylor,
Speaker 2: a teen daughter in a pink dress, come by. She's
Speaker 2: really blonde, debutant vibes and what neighborhood. I wish I
Speaker 2: kept looked at the address more. But I'm curious where
Speaker 2: they live because it looks like such a giant, sprawling home.
Speaker 1: The Barnes Home. Yeah, like, hold on, I'll find it.
Speaker 1: Hold one sec from the episode or from the wiki. Well,
Speaker 1: the wiki has all of the the bombs, they have
Speaker 1: all the things. They're so apartment of home of Colin,
Speaker 1: of Colin and Ann Barnes five two six Arlington Avenue
Speaker 1: so fully made up.
Speaker 4: I don't think that's.
Speaker 2: Like it looks Connecticut to me, you know, like it
Speaker 2: look it didn't look like the city in any way.
Speaker 1: Oh so maybe they are because that's there's no Arlington
Speaker 1: Avenue in New York.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like I know, the Bronx has big houses
Speaker 2: like I don't.
Speaker 4: Like in the Bronx.
Speaker 1: Actually, so they might live like up, I bet they
Speaker 1: live in the Bronx Riverdale. Fuck.
Speaker 4: Yeah, gotta figured that out. That makes sense. Yep, do
Speaker 4: you guys use ai?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: I wouldn't be able to figure that out.
Speaker 2: No, they wouldn't be able to figure out where Annie
Speaker 2: and Colin Barnes live okay, so, and he's being like,
Speaker 2: you know, he whatever. He's like reassuring his daughter, he's
Speaker 2: being an affectionate father. But the detective's eyebrows go up
Speaker 2: and they're like, we're intement room bars.
Speaker 4: So the guy's pissed off.
Speaker 2: He goes, I donated sperm on the condition of anonymity,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, okay, you've never contacted any of the
Speaker 2: sperm kids. He says no, and my wife doesn't even
Speaker 2: know and I would never agree to meet anybody. And
Speaker 2: Tomorrow goes, okay, well, why is there a room charge
Speaker 2: at the Empire Hotel under your credit card? And he's like,
Speaker 2: I don't even have a MasterCard. What is this? So
Speaker 2: Benson throws down the photos of the girls and like
Speaker 2: what they said about meeting this like Vivo lung guy,
Speaker 2: and somebody is trying extraor he goes, someone's trying extra money.
Speaker 2: And if any girl says she met me, she's lying.
Speaker 2: Amorrow plays red pill guy like, oh yeah, for sure,
Speaker 2: these dumb sluts, they're always lying and so but it
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter. The lawyer comes in, No more games.
Speaker 2: It's a ballbuster. Woman curls, she shuts it down, like
Speaker 2: get the fuck out of here. We go straight to
Speaker 2: the lineup and none of the girls I d him,
Speaker 2: So what the fuck is happening? She goes, these men
Speaker 2: are too old and my guy had better eyes, Like, well,
Speaker 2: you know what's going on? So they do a team
Speaker 2: meeting in the squad and the wife, Alibi, is him
Speaker 2: as well. So Munch goes, okay, and he seems like busy,
Speaker 2: Like how would you find the time to like seduce
Speaker 2: all these children and find them and like have surgery.
Speaker 2: But like the pedophiles really like they persevere, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. It seems like they have a lot
Speaker 2: of jobs and find ways to really travel and commit crimes.
Speaker 2: So but he has like such a god complex. Maybe
Speaker 2: he's like, let's pack my calendar. So he says the
Speaker 2: card isn't his, but the mailing address is for the card.
Speaker 4: Is a PO box a block from his hospital.
Speaker 2: So we're still also waiting for the DNA from the
Speaker 2: baby tissue and what if he is telling the truth,
Speaker 2: what's going on?
Speaker 4: And who the fuck met these girls? How about that question?
Speaker 2: So we have the first girl there and she's like,
Speaker 2: I'm not protecting anybody, like what the fuck? And Benson goes, okay,
Speaker 2: but we know for a fact Donor one four one
Speaker 2: was in there, so someone else met you. And she's like,
Speaker 2: that can't be and Benson goes that man is not
Speaker 2: your biological father. She says, but we look alike. They
Speaker 2: don't at all. So yeah, if you're not someone that
Speaker 2: watches SF, you you just listen to us. I'd like
Speaker 2: to let you know these people do not look alike.
Speaker 2: So then she says everything he told me match the profile.
Speaker 2: Benson leans in, what else did he tell you and
Speaker 2: that he'd been trying to contact her for years and
Speaker 2: that her dumb bitch mom wouldn't let him, you know,
Speaker 2: blame the mom. Good idea. And now Huang's with the
Speaker 2: blonde girl. There's a few blonde girls. This isn't Taylor.
Speaker 2: It's like another random girl. And so he runs. She's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he ran marathons and I do cross country and like
Speaker 2: it makes sense because of our genes, and Huang like, well,
Speaker 2: maybe you post about cross country on your social media
Speaker 2: and he saw that, and now it cuts to our
Speaker 2: bang mom, you know, like the girl in theater, and
Speaker 2: she goes, no, we connected and Amar and she's with
Speaker 2: tomorrow and again same story. He always wanted to meet me,
Speaker 2: and he asks when, then, why did he give you
Speaker 2: a fake name? And she doesn't have an answer, but
Speaker 2: she says, you're wrong. And when I saw him, I
Speaker 2: just knew. I knew that was the dad I had
Speaker 2: dreamed of. And he treated me like a grown up.
Speaker 2: And they spoke French together, and Tomorrow asked what happened
Speaker 2: after dinner, and yeah, they went back to a hotel.
Speaker 4: They danced.
Speaker 2: She knew it was wrong, but they fucked, and she
Speaker 2: is the he is the baby daddy, so.
Speaker 1: Right, they didn't fuck, it was right. Yeah, weird, this
Speaker 1: is bad. This is twisted, for sure, It's very twisted.
Speaker 1: This is a twisted as this is one of the
Speaker 1: most fucking weird episodes.
Speaker 4: Wrote this one which one of our freaks wrote this one.
Speaker 1: Casting crew were in light and then John Paul Roche.
Speaker 4: Oh doesn't he do all the crazy ones? I don't know.
Speaker 4: I feel the other girl. A lot of them are.
Speaker 4: It's like we're like they do. He's written thirty eight episodes.
Speaker 1: That's cool, John Paul Roche, Oh, No, twenty six, he
Speaker 1: wrote twenty six episodes. Oh, he did double strands, which
Speaker 1: I like.
Speaker 2: That's some twin bike, spider tattoos, hunting ground, one of
Speaker 2: our most haunting yep, Father Dearest, and then a lot
Speaker 2: in season fourteen.
Speaker 4: I don't know these as much.
Speaker 2: Monsters legacy, Oh funny Valentine, that's the Chloe seven y one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Vanity's bompfire like we've done a bunch of these.
Speaker 4: Oh, girl dishonored.
Speaker 1: He wrote, I'm traumatic Wound, which we haven't done yet,
Speaker 1: but that's the one about the The girl is from
Speaker 1: New Canaan and she gets hurt, assaulted at a concert
Speaker 1: but saved by an army veteran. Yeah, and then yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy's done a lot of them thirteen fourteen, fifteen,
Speaker 1: Oh and voices, He wrote, that's the one with Billy.
Speaker 1: He's our guy, Billy, Yeah, I don't know if he's
Speaker 1: our guy. I mean I like him. Yeah. Okay, So
Speaker 1: we're back to one of the girls.
Speaker 2: They're cumming back and forth between the detectives and the girls,
Speaker 2: and it's like he knew me. I wanted to be
Speaker 2: with him. They spent all weekend together, they danced, it
Speaker 2: was so romantic. He said, they can never see each
Speaker 2: other again, but they'll always be in each other's hearts
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. So the og Girl tells Benson that he
Speaker 2: dreamt to walk her down the aisle one day and
Speaker 2: do a first dance with her to a song called
Speaker 2: My One and Only Love, and it's a song that
Speaker 2: he played for her, and she admits they kissed and
Speaker 2: like she knew people wouldn't understand me being with my
Speaker 2: father like that, but I didn't care. And then she's like, wait,
Speaker 2: hold on, So if it wasn't my dad, like what
Speaker 2: the fuck. And Benson does feel bad for her, but
Speaker 2: I think it's better that, like, I'm glad it wasn't
Speaker 2: your dad, Like, yeah, I'm sorry you've been assaulted and
Speaker 2: lied to, and it's like such a tricky, fucked up thing,
Speaker 2: but like, I'm glad you're it wasn't right.
Speaker 4: You just honestly got bamboozled.
Speaker 2: So she runs into her the dad that raised her
Speaker 2: arms her dad, her real dad, and cries and goes,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, daddy.
Speaker 1: He says it's okay. They walk off together. I think
Speaker 1: I'll be fine.
Speaker 2: Colin Barnes is spurned daddy to all of them, but
Speaker 2: not to Ashley's baby, So that means this, yeah, you
Speaker 2: know what that means so then so that dad is
Speaker 2: not in the system, so that's fucked up. So someone
Speaker 2: posed as this stonor one for one and then raped
Speaker 2: all these girls. So then at Marrow goes he knows
Speaker 2: how to seduce, and Huang goes, no, he knows who
Speaker 2: to seduce. And two of those girls fantasized their whole
Speaker 2: life about the father they never knew. And then the
Speaker 2: other girl just found out about her dad wasn't her
Speaker 2: bio dad and is like desperate for her father's love.
Speaker 2: And all of them are vulnerable when they met him,
Speaker 2: so their inhibitions just disappeared, says Huang. And this isn't like,
Speaker 2: this is like not genetic family love, this isn't stat rape.
Speaker 4: She's like this, this is socio.
Speaker 2: This is so abap psycho dark dark dark like it's
Speaker 2: more twisted than these other things. I guess if we're
Speaker 2: comparing the twists. Okay, so we need to go back
Speaker 2: and talk to the doctor. Does he have enemies who
Speaker 2: would want to destroy him like this? So when we
Speaker 2: get to the Barnes home, the blonde daughter is screaming
Speaker 2: at them, running out. She's disgusted by her father. She
Speaker 2: calls her dad sick. How many kids do you have?
Speaker 2: One hundred more? I could be dating my own brother, Jesus.
Speaker 2: So she's enraged. She runs out of the house. The
Speaker 2: wife is like, she's right, what were you thinking. The
Speaker 2: cops arrive right at this moment, and he's like, you've
Speaker 2: done enough damage, get the fuck out of here. And
Speaker 2: Tomorrow goes, this is a great quote. Hey, you need
Speaker 2: to know someone has raped your donor daughters and did
Speaker 2: it in your own name. It's one of the craziest lines.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the wife goes, oh my god. So they go
Speaker 2: into the office to figure this out and all the enemies.
Speaker 2: He's like, everyone loves me. I'm highly esteemed and I'm incredible.
Speaker 2: People respect me, and my patients worship me. And then
Speaker 2: the wife goes, what about Philip Kelly? And then he
Speaker 2: calls him a hack? And it's basically a surgeon. Colin
Speaker 2: fired a year ago. Colin saw his handshake while pouring
Speaker 2: a ginger ale at a party last year, which is
Speaker 2: an obvious intention tremor.
Speaker 4: Okay, so he got fired. He didn't take it well.
Speaker 2: Colin is like, listen, we went to med school together,
Speaker 2: so I bet he thought I would like, look the
Speaker 2: other way.
Speaker 4: But I can't.
Speaker 2: You can't have a tremor and you can't do these
Speaker 2: operations like go fuck yourself. You've been fired. So they
Speaker 2: go to Flannery's bar and Phili is sitting there and
Speaker 2: they're like, where were you? And he's pulling an all
Speaker 2: night shift at the hospital, like in the prison. So
Speaker 2: it's very death becomes her. Bruce willis you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, he's in the prison working nights,
Speaker 2: and he goes, you can check with my son of
Speaker 2: a bitch supervisor. I mean, he clearly has a drinking problem.
Speaker 2: So then they bring up Barnes, Oh, the bastard that
Speaker 2: ruined my career, sanctimonious prick and I know what that
Speaker 2: word means because of Taylor Swift thinks. So Rolin sees
Speaker 2: him shake and he's like, well look at you shaking.
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, but I was on meds. I had
Speaker 2: it under control. And he like, sure, but you did shake,
Speaker 2: and he goes, whatever, I was drunk at my own birthday,
Speaker 2: Like I can't shake a little fuck. He also is like,
Speaker 2: don't worry, I'm not the only one. Like everyone hates him, like,
Speaker 2: have fun trying to figure out who hates him the most.
Speaker 2: He's like, I knew about the sperm donating because he
Speaker 2: bragged about it to anyone that would listen, And clearly
Speaker 2: this is a red herring, Like I don't know what
Speaker 2: else to say, but he's like, listen, I know you
Speaker 2: had a daughter, and I did hear that the daughter
Speaker 2: talked to some guy complaining about how much she hates
Speaker 2: her dad. And so now we meet James Vanderbeek, and
Speaker 2: now we know why everyone wants to fuck their father.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you kind of see James Vanderbeek like listen, yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're like a kid, yeah, and rested. He he's
Speaker 2: literally like a teen heart throb.
Speaker 1: But I had a.
Speaker 2: Dawson's Creek bucket hat and I had the calendar, like
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I also loved Don't Trust to
Speaker 2: Be An Apartment twenty three, as did I. Yeah, Eric
Speaker 2: Andre did like a really lovely tribute to James Vanderbeek
Speaker 2: when he passed. Yeah, and it's sad he's no longer
Speaker 2: with us, but he's so hot and all of it
Speaker 2: makes sense when you see it, Like it's kind of
Speaker 2: like the Will Sasso Dad one where they're like thank god,
Speaker 2: my dad's not a garbage man.
Speaker 4: I knew it.
Speaker 1: And it's like kind of like this where they're like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, love my dad. I mean, I was not
Speaker 1: a Dawson's Creek person.
Speaker 4: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I just like wasn't watching it but him and don't
Speaker 1: trust the bee. Like I really feel like that's where
Speaker 1: I like fell in love with him because he was
Speaker 1: so funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like not self serious, you know, I mean
Speaker 2: like yeah, and then the memes, like I feel like
Speaker 2: he leaned into the memes.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Varsity Blues. I think that movie meant That's.
Speaker 1: One I was a big one in the freshman year
Speaker 1: of college.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I was in West Tech.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and it was the whip Cream Bikini. I think
Speaker 2: was like pivotal sexual moment for a lot of people.
Speaker 2: I would say, who was that Ali Larder, Yeah, Casey's
Speaker 2: nodding furiously. That movie was hot as fuck and I
Speaker 2: watched it and they didn't. Yeah, I don't want your
Speaker 2: live Wait, this is psychotic. Ali Larder and Amy Smart
Speaker 2: in this movie. They're similar, Yeah they are. They're like
Speaker 2: the Bill Paxton, Bill Pullman or Dylan mcrooney and John
Speaker 2: mc whatever, McDermott or whatever it is, Rupert who cares,
Speaker 2: Dylan mulroney.
Speaker 1: And Dermott Dermott m Dylan McDermott and Dermot mulrooney. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Amy Smart is in a really horrific s view, one
Speaker 2: of the most damaging, and I would want her on
Speaker 2: the pod. Oh shit, I forget her episode. This is serendipitous.
Speaker 2: We need her because I also love the movie rat Race.
Speaker 2: It is a race, but also the Rules of Attraction
Speaker 2: was a meant a lot to me as well. I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's something that you watched. Nope, never
Speaker 2: seen that. Yeah, it was like a like, what's her name?
Speaker 2: She's in a Shannon Sassimon's in it as well. Whatever,
Speaker 2: we gotta get Shannon, and we gotta get all these
Speaker 2: people on our pod. Yeah, come on the pod, guys,
Speaker 2: if you're friends with any of these people, let him know.
Speaker 2: Scott con would be fucking good in a s fe Okay,
Speaker 2: let's get back. But anyways, James Vanderbeek is dancing slowly
Speaker 2: with Taylor, the doctor's daughter, and she's talking about her dad,
Speaker 2: you know, And the song that was mentioned earlier, My
Speaker 2: One and Only Love is playing it's an old timey song.
Speaker 2: She's like, my dad's been lying to me my whole life.
Speaker 2: Everyone's a liar. I needed to get the fuck out
Speaker 2: of there. And he caresses her hair and says, don't worry,
Speaker 2: you're with me now. They dance slowly, Taylor's smiling, his
Speaker 2: arm goes lower. Uh oh, but I did write James
Speaker 2: Vanderbeek is hot again. Okay, So Benson and Finn are
Speaker 2: at but I think he's hotter here than Dawson's Creek.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to say that he's hot or grown up. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And then Benson and Finn are at the Barnes home
Speaker 2: again and he's flipping out about his missing daughter, who
Speaker 2: he knows doesn't have a boyfriend because she's busy and
Speaker 2: she's pre met early acceptance to Brown and Benson goes, Okay, wow,
Speaker 2: seems like a lot of pressure, and he goes she
Speaker 2: thrives on it. Taylor would never run away, she would
Speaker 2: never hurt me. She's too mature, and something terrible is happening,
Speaker 2: and it's like everything can be true, and no one
Speaker 2: likes you like you truly are a menace. And if
Speaker 2: you didn't save people's lives, you'd be dead in a ditch.
Speaker 2: So the mom is with Amorro and rollins and Omaro
Speaker 2: opens the laptop in Taylor's room. The jazz song that
Speaker 2: we just heard them dancing to is on this laptop,
Speaker 2: and the mom goes, she hates jazz. She would never
Speaker 2: fucking listen to this, but someone emailed her the song yesterday,
Speaker 2: and she goes, well that is strange. But she goes,
Speaker 2: but I haven't heard this song in years. And they're like,
Speaker 2: you know it because it's not like it's Rihanna, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. It is a weird jazz number.
Speaker 2: And she goes, yeah, I dated at Cornell. This guy Sean.
Speaker 2: He played it all the time. So obviously ding ding
Speaker 2: ding Sean when you see him?
Speaker 4: Does he know your daughter? What's right? Not out?
Speaker 2: She goes, oh my god, that Phillip that birthday party
Speaker 2: with the sheiks Taylor talked to a man that could
Speaker 2: have been Sean.
Speaker 1: She's like, fuck, Sean could have her. And so now
Speaker 1: they're at the precinct and the dad has been such
Speaker 1: a dick, like why haven't you picked him up yet?
Speaker 4: And they're like, well, he does medical sales. So he
Speaker 4: travels a lot.
Speaker 2: In his apartment is empty and we're trying and there's
Speaker 2: no GPS on his phone because he turned it off,
Speaker 2: and we do know that the jazz song was sent
Speaker 2: from his email, so we're on it and the dad's
Speaker 2: telling and then even his lawyers like, you need to
Speaker 2: take it easy. So they're like, is there a reason
Speaker 2: he wants to hurt you? He goes, we barely knew him.
Speaker 2: He's a loser, and he's jealous, and Tomorrow goes, I
Speaker 2: don't think this is like general jealousy. This seems pretty
Speaker 2: personal and they dated, but maybe he thinks Colin stole
Speaker 2: him away. Rollin puts up something on the screen. It's
Speaker 2: an article, and he goes, oh, fuck, I do remember this.
Speaker 2: The title of the article is Mcat's Scandal at Cornell
Speaker 2: and he was caught cheating, so basically he was taking
Speaker 2: the test for someone else. Colin saw James Vanderbeek sitting
Speaker 2: there and was like, well, I already knew you took
Speaker 2: the test.
Speaker 4: What are you doing.
Speaker 2: He goes, oh, I'm making three hundred fifty dollars and
Speaker 2: Bensa goes, so you blew the whistle and he goes yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm proud of that. The thing is like, he
Speaker 2: is a tattletale, a loser, like all of these things.
Speaker 2: But I don't want any doctor cheating on the m
Speaker 2: cat right, So I don't, like, I don't know, you
Speaker 2: should take your.
Speaker 1: Tests yourself, like if you're gonna be treating patients.
Speaker 4: But also this guy needs to lie about her.
Speaker 2: And James Vanderubek could have been like, oh there was
Speaker 2: an error, or like they're letting me take it again
Speaker 2: or I signed up twice like whatever, like why yeah, whatever,
Speaker 2: So he's caught cheating everyone whatever. So Sean starts texting
Speaker 2: the mom he wants to see her. The dad says
Speaker 2: that's ridiculous, and the mom goes, no, it's not. If
Speaker 2: I don't see him, it says, I will never see
Speaker 2: Taylor again.
Speaker 5: Fuck.
Speaker 2: And also I think the mom's gonna divorce the dad
Speaker 2: after this episode. I think it's divorce city. So James
Speaker 2: Vanderbeek has flowers. He's at a like a beestro place
Speaker 2: and Rollins and Finn come in and they arrest him
Speaker 2: and he's like, I only want to talk to Anne.
Speaker 2: So he's in cement room. Bars Tomorrow and Menson are
Speaker 2: like trying to chat with him again. He's like, I'm
Speaker 2: only going to talk to Ann. I'm only going to
Speaker 2: talk to Anne. Benson goes, well, you have Taylor, and
Speaker 2: so you hold all the cards, so like, we'll do
Speaker 2: whatever you want.
Speaker 1: And he goes, well, I don't have Taylor. She's right
Speaker 1: where she wants to be. I didn't take her anywhere.
Speaker 2: And he says, she obviously needs me right now and
Speaker 2: we have a connection, and he calls her beautiful and
Speaker 2: special and says, I swear it was like I was
Speaker 2: looking at Anne.
Speaker 4: Okay. So now we go to this spy mirror room
Speaker 4: full as hell.
Speaker 2: Everyone's in there, and Colin's likeugh, enough with this bullshit.
Speaker 2: And Huang's like, well, the detectives know what they're doing,
Speaker 2: empathy projection. They're getting him to talk, like, shut the
Speaker 2: fuck up. Fuck, I've never felt less bad for someone
Speaker 2: whose daughter is missing, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: Anne's holding back tears. She's so stressed and now she
Speaker 2: knows she has to leave her husband and she's hoping
Speaker 2: that she has a good prenup. So he's so he says,
Speaker 2: Colin wants his daughter on a shelf like a trophy.
Speaker 2: But I really saw her for who she was, and
Speaker 2: Benson goes, so you gave her attention, like the attention
Speaker 2: you gave you know these other donor daughters and he
Speaker 2: gets up and I think they're really like I think
Speaker 2: this is the moment he realizes they know more that
Speaker 2: it's not just about Taylor and that he's been impregnanty
Speaker 2: in the others like did you get that impression too?
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm his motive is very confusing to me, Like,
Speaker 1: I know, we're going to find out that it's like,
Speaker 1: you know that it's a bit of a revenge thing
Speaker 1: on this one guy, But I don't understand why you
Speaker 1: would if you're not just like a predator or were
Speaker 1: those girls warm up so that you could get to
Speaker 1: know girls so that you could ultimately seduce the daughter
Speaker 1: Like Taylor was like, well.
Speaker 2: Well he talks about it because he said he felt
Speaker 2: so bad for her, and then he was like, I
Speaker 2: bet I feel bad for all these other abandoned women. Okay,
Speaker 2: well he hasnt simple. Yeah, I'm not trying to make
Speaker 2: sense of this. But all doctor, if you're a say
Speaker 2: yeah you have a god complex, Yeah you do. It's
Speaker 2: like a pilot you have to yeah, but like okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: there are no surgeons that are normal humans, like there
Speaker 2: I know, but that like you would translate your god
Speaker 2: complex into like I need to like groom these underage
Speaker 2: girls and then impregnate them. That's like a very big
Speaker 2: James van la Week is so hot. I'm like defending
Speaker 2: this predator. Yeah, like you don't understand, actually, Karen, you
Speaker 2: don't know surgeon culture.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So wait.
Speaker 2: I feel like once he's like the detective, Benson goes,
Speaker 2: so you gave her attention, like the attention you gave
Speaker 2: his other daughters, the donor daughters, and so he gets
Speaker 2: I think this is the moment he realizes they even
Speaker 2: know about any of that. Like, I think he thinks
Speaker 2: he's only there about Taylor. And then this is the
Speaker 2: moment they're like, we know you rape other girls.
Speaker 1: Like you're fucking shy, Like I think he like, I
Speaker 1: think this is when he realizes he fucked.
Speaker 4: But he looks out the cell windows. He admits to
Speaker 4: all of it.
Speaker 2: He's like, I remembered about his sperm donations and seeing
Speaker 2: how lonely Taylor was at the party made me think
Speaker 2: how lonely the other sperm daughters were right, but not
Speaker 2: the guys for sure, not the boys.
Speaker 1: But they don't need a dad.
Speaker 2: So marrow Egziman being like, I'm also a hot asshole freak, Like,
Speaker 2: let's connect. He's like he had a hundred kids out there,
Speaker 2: and he didn't think for one second how lonely those
Speaker 2: kids must have been. He's like, the emotions were so strong,
Speaker 2: like I just knew they needed more in a father's love,
Speaker 2: so I gave them what they needed. I was a
Speaker 2: better father than he ever was. And he doesn't deserve
Speaker 2: daughters or a family. He realizes they're watching, he goes,
Speaker 2: wait are they behind there? And then the score is very,
Speaker 2: very good, the music's dramatic, and then he's like, so
Speaker 2: he knows Anne is there, so they go, okay, go
Speaker 2: talk to her, and he starts speaking through the mirror.
Speaker 2: He doesn't deserve you, Anne, And to me, I'm like,
Speaker 2: you dodged a bullet, like you do have bad taste
Speaker 2: in men, but like this guy, I guess is worse
Speaker 2: than the guy you ended up with. But like, I
Speaker 2: wonder if she grew up in a home that really
Speaker 2: pushed her to get married young, Like I don't know
Speaker 2: why she had to end up with one of these guys,
Speaker 2: marry a doctor, like these guys suck, and she seems
Speaker 2: kind of fun, like I don't know. So he goes
Speaker 2: up super close to the mirror and he goes, I
Speaker 2: will never forget seeing you at that party. And then
Speaker 2: it's a serious face and he goes, you're you were
Speaker 2: pregnant glowing. So he's like a breeder too, like all
Speaker 2: the sperm stuff and the connected like, yeah, to look
Speaker 2: at the pregnant woman and he did you know, impregnant
Speaker 2: one of the girls. And he goes, you smiled right
Speaker 2: at me and and he goes, you said you were
Speaker 2: so blessed that this was your miracle, baby, No miracles
Speaker 2: for me. I never found the right one. And it's like,
Speaker 2: I think you're still seeming young.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you were spending a lot of time grooming
Speaker 1: teenagers that you could have just been on hinge, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like I think you could still
Speaker 1: find her.
Speaker 2: You could have been on a hinge instead of the
Speaker 2: sperm donor family. You were doing a lot of like
Speaker 2: undercover recon weird plotting.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you could just be dating. So he goes,
Speaker 1: I've never met the right one. Till now your daughter Taylor.
Speaker 2: He says he will tell her where her daughter is,
Speaker 2: but he wants to see her first, and for her daughter,
Speaker 2: she'll do everything. And they do a really cool shot
Speaker 2: where like he turns around slowly and then he looks
Speaker 2: at her and then we see her in the mirror
Speaker 2: behind him but standing by the window.
Speaker 4: Does that make sense? It was like a cool spinny.
Speaker 2: Shot that I yeah. And she's doing what needs to
Speaker 2: happen to get Taylor back. She says sorry, She's doing
Speaker 2: what she needs to do. She says, sorry for hurting you.
Speaker 2: He's like, well, I have a favor, and she's like anything,
Speaker 2: anything you want, and he puts a finger to her
Speaker 2: lips then brushes her hair back and he loves it,
Speaker 2: and he wants one dance. They never got to dance,
Speaker 2: and she always said next time. So did they date
Speaker 2: or did they not dance or did they dance? Like,
Speaker 2: I don't get what's happening, so whatever, She's like sure.
Speaker 2: So he also wants the husband to walk. She's He's like,
Speaker 2: I want your husband, the doctor to watch. I want
Speaker 2: him to feel what it's like to see you with
Speaker 2: another man. And then I guess they brought in a
Speaker 2: boom box ready for him with his favorite song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like twenty twelve, but I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: really has like a phone.
Speaker 2: No, he truly bends over and presses the button on
Speaker 2: a like. I was like, oh, yeah, this is weird
Speaker 2: that they would Okay, they had it ready. They have
Speaker 2: a boombox, the boom box that song or was it
Speaker 2: a laptop? Like I don't even think they have the lab.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy to me. But whatever, they do what
Speaker 2: they have to do. So they dance at my one
Speaker 2: and only plays he sings it to her ear. She
Speaker 2: looks o she's like in pure fear and anguish, and
Speaker 2: he's like, I've dreamed of this forever. I've dreamed of
Speaker 2: giving away my daughter at her wedding. And she's like
Speaker 2: that's so sweet, like maybe that'll happen, and he goes,
Speaker 2: no for our daughter, and then he goes but Colin
Speaker 2: gets to do that instead of me with Taylor, and
Speaker 2: so they're still dancing. She's such a good actress, like
Speaker 2: holy shit, and then he says there's a problem and
Speaker 2: what and then he whispers something in her ear and
Speaker 2: she starts screaming no, no, no, no, no, and starts
Speaker 2: hitting him, and so then Benson holds her back. Tomorrow
Speaker 2: takes the guy, James Vanderbeek, and then the husband wants in.
Speaker 2: Finn holds him back. He's panicked, and then he begs
Speaker 2: and then she comes out he killed her, He killed her.
Speaker 2: She keeps repeating and then goes into her husband's arms,
Speaker 2: and now it's like precinct time, like why the fuck
Speaker 2: would he kill the daughter? And then something clicks for Benson.
Speaker 2: He goes She's like, oh my god, Taylor is special.
Speaker 2: We've been looking at Empire and West Side hotels. We
Speaker 2: need to look on the east side at nicer hotels.
Speaker 2: I think the west Side might have some nice ones.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, it's strange, but the Empire Hotel
Speaker 2: where like the first credit card was found or whatever,
Speaker 2: that's where a lot of Dexter resurrection is. That's where
Speaker 2: Harrison works, and it's very exciting, so that they find
Speaker 2: the better hotel.
Speaker 4: Taylor is alive.
Speaker 2: She's alive. She's in a row in bed, so this
Speaker 2: is great. And Benson's like, Sean told your parents you
Speaker 2: were dead, and she's like, you're lying. He would never
Speaker 2: do that, and Sean is my real dad. He told
Speaker 2: me the truth, and Benson's like nope, and then tomorrow
Speaker 2: throw's clothes at and goes get dressed, like relax, but
Speaker 2: she screams, no, I want Sean, I want my father.
Speaker 4: I want him. She's so mad, like the therapy this
Speaker 4: family will need.
Speaker 2: And then that's dick well baby, it's just like her
Speaker 2: being manipulated as fucked, like believing everything this guy said
Speaker 2: and hat and.
Speaker 1: Like it's weird. He's like he did all of this
Speaker 1: for this woman, and then he just wanted to hurt
Speaker 1: her at the end with the lying about killing her,
Speaker 1: like he just wanted to stick it to her. I
Speaker 1: don't know, sick motherfucker. Yeah, for sure, for sure. It's
Speaker 1: a It's one of the most wild plots. It's extremely
Speaker 1: loosely borrowed from real stories, because nothing this crazy could
Speaker 1: happen I feel in real life. I mean we've said that,
Speaker 1: and then we've found the stories that are like identical,
Speaker 1: but like this one and this one is nuts to
Speaker 1: go after, Like there could be a guy who's a
Speaker 1: sperm donor who I could see going later and reconnecting
Speaker 1: with all his sperm donor daughters and having sex with them.
Speaker 1: But I don't see you doing it as a revenge
Speaker 1: to get back for your college girlfriend whose husband called
Speaker 1: you in for cheating and for having a tremor, like
Speaker 1: both things. This guy had it out for you. Anyway,
Speaker 1: let's get into genetic sexual attraction phenomenon or okay, so
Speaker 1: the genetics attraction. I want a T shirt that says
Speaker 1: that genetic sexual attraction.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm gonna get that. Don't wear it at home.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, genetic sexual attraction is a hypothesis that people
Speaker 1: can be attracted to one another based on their genetics similarities.
Speaker 4: That's one part of it.
Speaker 1: Like there are people that can be attracted to people
Speaker 1: that like look like them, that have genetic similarities to them.
Speaker 1: But then it also describes this phenomenon of people who
Speaker 1: are biologically related being separated and then feeling intense feelings
Speaker 1: in sexual attraction when contact is restored. This term was
Speaker 1: popularized in the US in the late eighties by Barbara Gaugno,
Speaker 1: founder of truth Seekers in Adoption, a Chicago support group
Speaker 1: for adoptees. Is she a doctor? Is she a scientist? No,
Speaker 1: She's a woman who established contact with her own son
Speaker 1: after giving him up for adoption and felt sexual feelings
Speaker 1: towards him, but he did not feel them back, and
Speaker 1: he got the fuck away from her.
Speaker 2: And so she just created this whole syndrome to make
Speaker 2: it okay that she wanted to fuck her son.
Speaker 1: Apparently it had been a little bit discussed in like
Speaker 1: the seventies, but like there are like no papers about this,
Speaker 1: like according to my research, there's like.
Speaker 4: Neil Beart, like what.
Speaker 2: The fuck, Yeah, I thought about this so often in
Speaker 2: public as a fact that like, what do you mean
Speaker 2: it's just some incest bitch that came up with it.
Speaker 1: Well, this is interesting, this is interesting. Let me tell you,
Speaker 1: Let me tell you. So this woman had yeah, feelings,
Speaker 1: he did not want that.
Speaker 4: So okay.
Speaker 1: Others have found that this phenomenon occurs. And notice my
Speaker 1: use of the word phenomenon. It's not a syndrome, it's
Speaker 1: not a disorder. It's a phenomenon, okay, phenomenomenon, a femininenomenon.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: So others have found that it occurs because of physical
Speaker 1: separation of relatives. The attraction to biological relatives separated at
Speaker 1: a young age occurs because it prevents the Western mark
Speaker 1: effect from happening. So the wester Mark effect is also
Speaker 1: known as reverse sexual imprinting, and it's the psychological hypothesis
Speaker 1: again hypothesis that people are usually not attracted to people
Speaker 1: with that they live with before the age of six
Speaker 1: because the body, like dessense, it tizes to biologically related
Speaker 1: people as a natural way to avoid incest and inbreeding.
Speaker 1: So like you grow up with your brothers around you,
Speaker 1: or cousins or your father, and you don't develop those
Speaker 1: feelings because they're around you and you get desensitized to
Speaker 1: them as a sexual being. But the reason that this
Speaker 1: happens is because people get reconnected after years and years
Speaker 1: and they were not together in those times. So another
Speaker 1: suggested explanation for the phenomenon is possible narcissistic feelings. Catherine
Speaker 1: mccaskell and adoption and sexual abuse experts suggested that genetic
Speaker 1: sexual attraction cases occur when a reunion is unplanned and
Speaker 1: the parties are not adequately adequately prepared for the reunion.
Speaker 1: So like, if you're a person that's going to go
Speaker 1: like meet your biological father or mother whoever, and that's
Speaker 1: this they're the same gender that you're attracted to, I
Speaker 1: guess you should there should be like therapy, like there
Speaker 1: should be you know, like prepairing for.
Speaker 4: That to happen, a moderator or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, and like just not just like I
Speaker 1: looked them up on a chat room and I'm going
Speaker 1: to visit him in New York City, Like you know
Speaker 1: that's not well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was grooming that you know, yeah, he
Speaker 2: was doing other stuff. But you're right, like, if you're
Speaker 2: gonna do this, get some you know planning. Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah,
Speaker 2: because you know, you build it up in your head too,
Speaker 2: like meeting this person.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So there was another guy named Eric Anderson, a sociologist
Speaker 1: and sexologist who wrote in his book called The Monogamy Gap, Men, Love,
Speaker 1: and the Reality of Cheating that there really isn't enough
Speaker 1: research on.
Speaker 4: Genetic sexual attraction. And his book was what were you
Speaker 4: about to say? Genitals? Probably His book.
Speaker 1: Was published in twenty twelve, the same year that this
Speaker 1: episode came out, and at that time he goes, he goes,
Speaker 1: there's like one academic research paper on this subject, and
Speaker 1: he said it was filled with quote unquote Freudian psychobabble.
Speaker 1: So that's just like, I mean, that's one guy's opinion.
Speaker 1: A lot of other experts have also called genetic sexual
Speaker 1: attracture to pseudoscience, and there is really not a lot
Speaker 1: of heart events about it anywhere. Salon published an article
Speaker 1: about this by Amanda Marcott, which was in reaction to
Speaker 1: press coverage of this case in New Mexico. And this
Speaker 1: is in twenty sixteen, so this is since the episode
Speaker 1: four years after about this woman named Monica Mares, who
Speaker 1: at thirty six years old, reunited with her son Caleb
Speaker 1: Peterson nineteen.
Speaker 4: They lived in the same town in New Mexico, which
Speaker 4: is crazy.
Speaker 1: She had given him up for adoption as a teen,
Speaker 1: and they began a sexual relationship that was reported to
Speaker 1: law enforcement, and they decided to fight it. They were like,
Speaker 1: we're in love, we need We're going to go against
Speaker 1: We'll go to any lengths to stay together. This woman
Speaker 1: is the mother to nine other children and said she
Speaker 1: would go to prison and give up seeing any of
Speaker 1: her other kids if it meant being with Caleb, who
Speaker 1: she claimed to be madly in love with. And incests
Speaker 1: is a crime in all fifty states. It's just, you know,
Speaker 1: it depends on the I thought, if it's your over,
Speaker 1: if you're like of age, you can you can do it.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a crime, but the punishment's vary.
Speaker 1: So so you know, like so.
Speaker 4: Mona legal.
Speaker 2: I thought, well, just in an SVU and Taboo, they
Speaker 2: say how it's legal like in New Jersey or whatever
Speaker 2: if like you're both consenting adults.
Speaker 4: Oh they do.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well the article I was reading, I mean, but
Speaker 2: that there's time in between. But in my heat, I
Speaker 2: always thought that, like if you're of age, you can
Speaker 2: do incest. They vary widely between jurisdictions. Oh hi, in
Speaker 2: New Jersey and Rhode Island, incest between consenting adults sixteen
Speaker 2: or over for RhoD Island, eighteen and over for New
Speaker 2: Jersey is not a criminal offense, though marriage is not
Speaker 2: allowed in either state. I mean, I'm sorry for a pothead,
Speaker 2: Like I really kill it in terms of like I
Speaker 2: remember the state.
Speaker 1: Yeah you did remember that. Yeah, incests is criminalized between
Speaker 1: In all but two states, incests is criminalized between consenting adults.
Speaker 1: So you're right RhE Island and New Jersey, which those
Speaker 1: are not two that I thought would be the ones,
Speaker 1: but they are, because you're right. That was New Jersey
Speaker 1: in Taboo, but so in New Mexico they were charged
Speaker 1: with incense. It's a fourth degree felony in New Mexico.
Speaker 1: They both ended up accepting no contest plea deals where
Speaker 1: they agreed to not have contact for eighteen months, and
Speaker 1: after eighteen months they were allowed to have contact.
Speaker 4: But not a sexual relationship. Like after Jersey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, but I guess they have to move
Speaker 1: to New Jersey. But I tried to find updates on
Speaker 1: them because this was like very it was very tabloid,
Speaker 1: and there's no update on this couple. But this Salon
Speaker 1: article was written in response to this case because the
Speaker 1: case was written up in the Daily Mail and a
Speaker 1: couple other blogs picked it up to more tabloidy kind
Speaker 1: of websites, and the author posts pushed back on it
Speaker 1: being a real thing. She's like, there's literally no research
Speaker 1: on it. It's a lot of like bullshit dressed up
Speaker 1: as a phenomenon quote unquote. But the majority of GSA
Speaker 1: cases are reported by tabloids because the subject is so taboo,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know if it's like no one's
Speaker 1: done the research. But she says even the woman who
Speaker 1: coined the phrase, Barbara Gagno like she her son did
Speaker 1: not reciprocate those feelings, so like it makes it seem
Speaker 1: like it's not like it's an un like you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like an unfightable desire phenomenon that like just
Speaker 1: comes on.
Speaker 4: It's like it happens for certain people.
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I thought in this one about
Speaker 1: New Mexico, it's like the boy that she gave up, Caleb.
Speaker 1: I mean, at that point, he's nineteen, he's a man.
Speaker 1: He was like always in foster care and then he said,
Speaker 1: no one ever cared about me my whole life. And
Speaker 1: then he meets his birth mom and she's like cooking
Speaker 1: food for him, and he just like feels loved for
Speaker 1: the first time. And I think she took advantage of
Speaker 1: that to be on like between That's my sense of it,
Speaker 1: because it's like it is a mental thing. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's like a I don't think it's like a genetic.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's like an internal like Wow, I've
Speaker 1: been I've been running around acting like it was fact,
Speaker 1: and I think it's I think it happens, yeah, but
Speaker 1: like but you can say, instead of this happens, it
Speaker 1: can be like this can occur. Yes, But we talked
Speaker 1: just now to We talked to our guests today about
Speaker 1: talking to someone on the plane who said that they
Speaker 1: were sexually attracted to themselves. Right, it's like I've never
Speaker 1: heard that specifically diagnosed. But also what they were saying
Speaker 1: in a lot of this research is sexual attraction is
Speaker 1: so complex, Like it's so to even be able to
Speaker 1: pinpoint and say, oh, this is a disorder or a
Speaker 1: syndrome or a diagnosis is like so difficult because that's
Speaker 1: such a complex thing. And it feels like people have
Speaker 1: tried to put genetic sexual attraction on it when some
Speaker 1: in some cases it feels like it's just feelings only
Speaker 1: from one side or whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but but for it, like it's just
Speaker 2: so wild to be like, so, I guess the son
Speaker 2: I've been reunited with doesn't want to fuck me, and
Speaker 2: something must be wrong with him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a sit but also something is like in taboo,
Speaker 1: it's like this man is a predator, like he is
Speaker 1: like he's grooming her like I love you, I'm the
Speaker 1: only one that loves you, or whatever, to the point
Speaker 1: that he won't even put on a fucking condom and
Speaker 1: just keeps impregnating her. You know, he's diabolical, So okay,
Speaker 1: that's that on genetic sexual attraction. And then obviously this
Speaker 1: is based on like, you know, sperm donors in general.
Speaker 1: And right at the time of this episode twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: right the year before, there was a special that came
Speaker 1: out that sort of I think in warms this episode
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 1: Ben Seisler was a man who uh Time magazine calls
Speaker 1: a genetic prince charming, tall, athletic, smart, handsome, jewish. Okay,
Speaker 1: he gave to spermed clinics in both Boston and Virginia
Speaker 1: to help pay his way through college and law school.
Speaker 1: So over the course of you know years, and in
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, he decided to plug his number
Speaker 1: into you know, donor one forty one, similar into the
Speaker 1: Donor Sibling Registry, and he ended up discovering in the
Speaker 1: end that he'd fathered over seventy children, though based on
Speaker 1: his estimates of how much he donated, he thought the
Speaker 1: number might be closer to one forty. So he broke
Speaker 1: the news to his fiance about this on camera for
Speaker 1: a docuseries called Style Exposed colon Sperm Donor, which was
Speaker 1: you Guessed It on the Style Channel, which doesn't even exist.
Speaker 4: An he was wondering what.
Speaker 1: I tried to find the video. I tried to find
Speaker 1: the video of it. If there's any super salutes that
Speaker 1: are good at like going on those deep web websites
Speaker 1: like or the way Back Machine, but like I could
Speaker 1: not find any video clips of it. But he does
Speaker 1: this like reality.
Speaker 2: To give me a secret on the Style Network life,
Speaker 2: I would, I mean, can you Jenny Jones murder situation?
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was obviously furious. She still did marry him.
Speaker 1: They still did get married, and you know, like around
Speaker 1: this time, there's like a lot.
Speaker 2: I think the sperm bank of it all is far
Speaker 2: like that's not my issue. I think it's a dot,
Speaker 2: like a surprise reveal on a on camera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what's like, what's weird is like I don't
Speaker 1: know how long he was with his girl, but he
Speaker 1: knew in two thousand and five that he had fathered
Speaker 1: all these kids, and like the doc is in twenty eleven,
Speaker 1: and it took him six y Like he didn't tell
Speaker 1: his He didn't tell his Beyonce until the show or
Speaker 1: the doc documentary. I think it was just like a
Speaker 1: one part special or whatever. But the man so basically
Speaker 1: at this time, people are hearing about these kinds of things,
Speaker 1: like there's a man in Britain who donated for over
Speaker 1: thirty years who fathered more than a thousand children apparently,
Speaker 1: which ended up causing Britain to restrict the number of
Speaker 1: child children that a donor can have, including their own,
Speaker 1: to ten. The FDA in the United States has no
Speaker 1: limits on the number of offspring a donor may have,
Speaker 1: but most sperm banks say that they limit it to
Speaker 1: twenty five or thirty children. But they have no way
Speaker 1: of tracking if a man goes to a different facility
Speaker 1: to donate, like especially across state lines, like they have
Speaker 1: no way of tracking.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I am actually now curious. How many of
Speaker 2: these people are like John Stamo's episode of Breeder Freaks,
Speaker 2: reproductive abusers. Yeah, that are like addicted and just like
Speaker 2: sperm everywhere.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, this guy Seizler, he said in the Style
Speaker 1: Channel show. He explained what motivated him because he ended
Speaker 1: up reaching out to a bunch of his genetic offspring
Speaker 1: and talking to them and he said he quote he
Speaker 1: said quote, I wanted to be available for these families,
Speaker 1: to be a resource for them. He said, I'm curious
Speaker 1: as to what these kids are like. But I'm not
Speaker 1: looking for anything from them.
Speaker 4: End quote.
Speaker 1: But then when a friend replied to him, well you
Speaker 1: can't be hidden seventy chuck e cheese birthday parties, the
Speaker 1: article said, he bristled and said, they're not my kids.
Speaker 4: I don't see them as my kids. So I think
Speaker 4: he wanted.
Speaker 1: I think he wanted to, in a way be able
Speaker 1: to say, oh, I have this medical condition in my family,
Speaker 1: or I'm good at this sport like I run cross
Speaker 1: country or whatever like that stuff is just to give
Speaker 1: these kids.
Speaker 2: If he's being sincere, maybe he just wanted to offer
Speaker 2: up any if the kids needed something, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? Yes, yeah, oh you know what movie I love?
Speaker 2: The kids are all right? We didn't talk about that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I do love that movie. That's another thing
Speaker 1: that could happen. Maybe that's a syndrome. Yeah, lesbian guard
Speaker 1: fall in love with a birth parent. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: the bioparent. So basically, I think because this style thing
Speaker 1: had just came out and like people are talking about
Speaker 1: like also in twenty ten, there was a documentary called
Speaker 1: Donor Unknown that was about a girl going to find
Speaker 1: her sperm donor father who she only knows as donor
Speaker 1: one fifty, and she made this movie about it that
Speaker 1: like got Some Got Some, like one Best the Tribeca
Speaker 1: Online Film Festival best for Best Feature Film and stuff
Speaker 1: like it won a couple of awards.
Speaker 4: So it's in the it's in the conversation.
Speaker 1: There's this guy on the Style channel, there's this doc
Speaker 1: like people are talking about sperm donors, and so I'm
Speaker 1: sure like SVU got the But one of the part
Speaker 1: of the problem with the sperm donors is that the
Speaker 1: late stage capitalism of it all caught onto sperm donation industry,
Speaker 1: where sperm donors are hard to find. I guess like
Speaker 1: I had this vision in the eighties that like you
Speaker 1: could just maybe it's blood, but I thought you could
Speaker 1: just like go in and jerk off into a cup
Speaker 1: and get twenty five dollars like I always thought it
Speaker 1: like wasn't even lucrative to do it for men, like
Speaker 1: I know, like being an egg donor is like is
Speaker 1: I've known of I've had friends of friends who have
Speaker 1: done it, like to help pay for college and stuff,
Speaker 1: because it's quite lucrative. But basically sperm donors are hard
Speaker 1: to find and the good ones like they have to
Speaker 1: be medically cleared, you know, and then obviously people are
Speaker 1: doing like lesbian Rollinson and Benson are trying to like
Speaker 1: go after these specific profiles and education and this and that.
Speaker 1: So apparently a lot of the banks would require guys
Speaker 1: that were cleared and desirable to donate like once a
Speaker 1: week for their first year of being part of the bank,
Speaker 1: like donating a lot. And that's why fathering like one
Speaker 1: hundred plus kids can happen. Like I personally know a
Speaker 1: guy who donated sperm and then found a Facebook group
Speaker 1: of women that he had and he was he had
Speaker 1: fathered I believe in the teens, like he had fathered
Speaker 1: many many kids.
Speaker 2: Well, isn't Richard Hatch from surviv Like there's a bunch
Speaker 2: of Hatch babies. There's gonna be a documentary about that,
Speaker 2: I think too. Yeah, or someone just told me that
Speaker 2: about their deep personal friend and I just revealed it.
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, Richard Hatched if I ever winner
Speaker 1: revealed he was a prolific sperm donor in the eighties
Speaker 1: and estimates he may have bothered up to two hundred
Speaker 1: children and also in Virginia where he was donating whoa
Speaker 1: and then he said, also he connected with some children
Speaker 1: via the Donor Sibling Registry.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder if the model will change. Like that's
Speaker 4: the thing.
Speaker 2: We don't think about these kids because sometimes in my
Speaker 2: feet it'll show up, like kids that are pissed they
Speaker 2: were adopted, and uh, it's like a perspective we don't
Speaker 2: think about.
Speaker 4: It's so much of like, oh, I want to be
Speaker 4: a parent. I want to be a parent.
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, well it seems like some twisted shit happens,
Speaker 2: like we're not thinking about the kids. Like most people
Speaker 2: don't really think about kids as people. Yeah, they really don't.
Speaker 1: I yeah, yeah, I mean a lot of this Richard
Speaker 1: Hatch stuff started coming out in twenty thirteen, so like
Speaker 1: a little bit after this episode, you know, Like, but
Speaker 1: it was I think in the third in the teens,
Speaker 1: it was people were talking about it a lot, and
Speaker 1: like finding out that as the science improves, it's just
Speaker 1: like also, like there was a woman in one of
Speaker 1: the articles I read with Ben Seisler who had like twins,
Speaker 1: she had twins with his sperm, and she's like, I
Speaker 1: know that he has other kids in the area of
Speaker 1: Quebec that I live in. And I have to keep
Speaker 1: I have to track them, like if you if he
Speaker 1: does have one hundred and forty kids and a lot
Speaker 1: of them are in the Boston or the Virginia area.
Speaker 1: You got to make sure that your kids don't end
Speaker 1: up like dating their brother half brothers and sisters, you know,
Speaker 1: which I know people have also found out. So nothing
Speaker 1: quite as wild as what Dawson gets up to in
Speaker 1: this episode, but still some crazy stuff.
Speaker 4: But uh, but yeah, we have an awesome guest, so
Speaker 4: don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is an actor you may know best
Speaker 1: for his leading roles on shows like Without a Trace
Speaker 1: in Nashville, but you know him today as prolific sperm
Speaker 1: donor and framed rapist Colin Barnes. Please enjoy our conversation
Speaker 1: with Eric Close.
Speaker 4: Welcome, Eric, Welcome.
Speaker 5: Thank you, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah watching me? Yep, So you watch the episode? What
Speaker 2: are your what are some like top of mind thoughts
Speaker 2: as you were watching?
Speaker 5: Well, so, first of all, one thing you got it
Speaker 5: was cool is I had not seen that episode.
Speaker 4: Nice?
Speaker 5: No, I know, so I don't always watch everything I do,
Speaker 5: And I was actually talking to my daughters about that
Speaker 5: this morning, I was like, yeah, I didn't even see
Speaker 5: this episode, and there's like episodes as suits I haven't
Speaker 5: seen and without a trace, et cetera. So it was
Speaker 5: really fun to watch it. And I was like, dang,
Speaker 5: I was in pretty good shake back shape back then.
Speaker 5: So it was really fun to watch. And you know,
Speaker 5: I'll get this out of the way quickly. It was
Speaker 5: a bit sad to see James Vanderbeek in the episode
Speaker 5: because I knew James and I forgot that he was
Speaker 5: in the episode, and and because I had sent him
Speaker 5: a text a while back when I when he first
Speaker 5: got sick, and and uh, and I was kept remembering
Speaker 5: how did I get his number? And then I remember
Speaker 5: it was because we had worked together way back in
Speaker 5: the day on mckinna up here in Oregon, and then
Speaker 5: we worked on SUU and so we had reconnected. So anyway,
Speaker 5: just rest in peace, James. But it was good to
Speaker 5: see him, Yeah on the episode last night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, day for coming and talking about this one. We
Speaker 2: thought it would be like we would definitely mention him, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely honor his legacy when we do
Speaker 1: when we record the rest of the episode. I mean,
Speaker 1: but when you do you remember we're like getting the
Speaker 1: script for this and just thinking, wow, SVU has just
Speaker 1: really out svu'ed itself.
Speaker 4: I mean, this episode is so wild.
Speaker 2: Like my quote from tomorrow, it's somebody raped your donor
Speaker 2: daughters and did it in your name, and it's like,
Speaker 2: what a wild episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So when I first got the episode, I uh, you know,
Speaker 5: I always read it and make sure I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 5: this is a little out there, right, but I love
Speaker 5: the twist in it. And uh, I was excited to
Speaker 5: work with Marishka. I'd known her for a long time
Speaker 5: and get an a chance to work with her, so
Speaker 5: and I like, I mean one of the things about
Speaker 5: SVU is these cases come up and these these weird
Speaker 5: syndromes that people have and are yeah you know what
Speaker 5: I'm saying, and this was this one was out there.
Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, that's really crazy, but it's a
Speaker 5: real thing, which sure is unfortunate, but it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, genetic sexual attraction. It's definitely out there. And there's
Speaker 1: a few s views on the topic. I would say
Speaker 1: we were expert level now on Oh well, I just a.
Speaker 5: Quick side note. I met this lady on an airplane
Speaker 5: one time, but told me that her husband he's now
Speaker 5: passed away because he killed himself. But he had a
Speaker 5: sexual attraction to himself, so almost like I don't know
Speaker 5: if you remember in Sound Slams when Buffalo.
Speaker 4: Bill was like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, he got of.
Speaker 5: Getting up himself. So this guy had this crazy thing
Speaker 5: where he was attracted to himself, and he tried everything
Speaker 5: to try and get away from it. He got prostitutes,
Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera, and he was so depressed by
Speaker 5: it he went out and ended up ending his life,
Speaker 5: which is really sad. But I never heard of such.
Speaker 1: I've never liked that, heard of that.
Speaker 5: I mean, we all liked you know, we all look
Speaker 5: at ourselves in the mirror kind of go aah, look
Speaker 5: good today. Whatever. Yeah, that's that's like a.
Speaker 4: Whole other level, a whole other level.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: We got to google that, and I want to read
Speaker 4: more about it because maybe you could handle it.
Speaker 1: Maybe. So how did you how did you guys.
Speaker 4: Start talking about that on the plane?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I know, how does the.
Speaker 5: I Okay, for some reason, I have this thing where
Speaker 5: people just open up.
Speaker 1: To time's going to say, you kind of have one
Speaker 1: of those faces. I feel like where someone's like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to tell you about my husband's
Speaker 1: weird sexual thing.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, and uh it's a long story. But she
Speaker 5: overheard me on a zoom call with a bunch of
Speaker 5: friends and we were talking about I think we were
Speaker 5: talking about prayer actually, and she said prayer is really
Speaker 5: important and then I go, oh, why is that? And
Speaker 5: then she told me about this thing that how prayer
Speaker 5: got her through all this trauma that she had and whatever.
Speaker 5: That's but that's what it happened.
Speaker 4: She was waiting to tell the door in that moment.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, I've just met I've met people.
Speaker 5: I have flown all over the world and I have
Speaker 5: met people, and yes, people have shared some pretty crazy
Speaker 5: stuff with me that because I'm a stranger, it's almost
Speaker 5: like going to the therapist's office. They're never going to
Speaker 5: see me again. And you know, a lot of times
Speaker 5: they don't know what I do, so they're just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 5: so I did this and that. I'm like, oh wow, okay, crazy.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: So you do you remember like being like shooting this
Speaker 1: episode of the show, because I know this is like
Speaker 1: one episode of television and a long career that you've had,
Speaker 1: and you were on like one hundred and sixty something
Speaker 1: episodes of Without a Trace. You've done a lot of
Speaker 1: but do you remember, like because this is season thirteen,
Speaker 1: this is like the first episode without Christopher Maloney. This,
Speaker 1: you know, so you got onto a post Maloney set,
Speaker 1: and I was just wondering if you know there was
Speaker 1: a vibe anything you picked up on. Marishka's in charge now,
Speaker 1: but you've known her, I guess previously.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, No, she's certainly. She's certainly in charge. One
Speaker 5: things I'll tell you about Marishka is after all those
Speaker 5: seasons that she's been on it, she still was so
Speaker 5: all in. Like there was no phoning to day in.
Speaker 5: It wasn't like, oh I just my thirteenth season.
Speaker 2: She was in.
Speaker 5: She wanted to rehearse, She cared about the development of
Speaker 5: each character. We would talk it out. I mean, I
Speaker 5: was really impressed, to be honestly, because I've done enough television,
Speaker 5: you know, serious television, to tell you there's times you're
Speaker 5: just kind of in burnout mode, you know, like let's
Speaker 5: just get the day over, And that's not Marishka. I
Speaker 5: was really impressed by her and she treated me really
Speaker 5: well and we hadn't seen each other in a long time.
Speaker 5: If we have time, I'll share a Marishka's story later time. Yeah, okay, cool, cool,
Speaker 5: But I was bombed that Maloney wasn't there because he
Speaker 5: and I were an acting class way back in the day.
Speaker 5: Really yeah, and Howard Find's studio and he was he
Speaker 5: was already a forest back then in class. He was
Speaker 5: so intense and I just remember going, man, this guy's
Speaker 5: he just has an intense city, because you know, I mean,
Speaker 5: he's yeah, he's uh, he's serious and uh. I think
Speaker 5: my first thing I remember him going on to after
Speaker 5: that was I think he was in prison break in
Speaker 5: the TV series right.
Speaker 4: With Amari Od.
Speaker 5: I mean, O, yeah, yeah, there's jail. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: yeah he was. He was great in that. So it
Speaker 5: was just cool. It was cool to see people from
Speaker 5: class break out and do well like Scott Wolf, and
Speaker 5: there's other people I could mention, but yeah, are you gonna.
Speaker 2: Have you seen on Instagram the trend of like hey dad,
Speaker 2: what were you like in the nineties?
Speaker 4: And then have you seen this?
Speaker 2: And then it's too a whole song, so all like
Speaker 2: Scott Wolf did, that's whatever reminded me. Scott Wolf did it.
Speaker 2: Devin Sawa posted one today like oh, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: Jonathan Taylor Thomas like dad, what were you like in
Speaker 2: the nineties?
Speaker 4: And it's a cool song.
Speaker 2: And then people are posting their like nineties hatty photos.
Speaker 2: Jillian andersaid, like, yeah, I saw Sharon Stone doing.
Speaker 4: You have to jump on the trend all right, I'll
Speaker 4: check it out.
Speaker 2: Trend is your ninety so fine, get your haughty nineties picks.
Speaker 1: Well I saw doing research of you. You have two
Speaker 1: daughters that are like in their twenties or something, right,
Speaker 1: so maybe one of them help.
Speaker 5: You with the yeah process, Yeah, they're they're on top
Speaker 5: of it. Skot Wolf's great at it. He knows he's
Speaker 5: all he's on top of it. He knows what he's doing.
Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, heavy daughters. Also, that was a bit
Speaker 5: of a trip watching that episode and uh.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because you're like a you're like a girl
Speaker 1: dad that It must have been crazy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was out there. But the girls, I'm like,
Speaker 5: what are you guys doing? I mean it was really wild.
Speaker 5: Like some of the girls like I just want I
Speaker 5: knew he was my dad, but I wanted to be
Speaker 5: what I was like, Okay, this is that's the genetic attraction. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: which I didn't but.
Speaker 1: It's not because then none of them are really he's
Speaker 1: not any of their dads.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think it's it's like a.
Speaker 5: It's a mindset. It's a mental I mean like B. D.
Speaker 5: Wong was talking about his character was talking about how
Speaker 5: how the even like siblings that were separated at birth
Speaker 5: and then they come back, they suddenly have some sort
Speaker 5: of attraction.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Wow, it's weird because it's like an intense
Speaker 1: like closeness that then can like I think wires get crossed,
Speaker 1: But what do you get recognized more?
Speaker 4: For the most like you do you get stopped around?
Speaker 5: Well, lately the last couple of years has been Suits
Speaker 5: because it came out on uh Netflix.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's found a new audience.
Speaker 5: It sure has. As a matter of fact, there's a
Speaker 5: lady here painting our house and yesterday I walk in
Speaker 5: and she's like, oh my gosh, like I didn't know
Speaker 5: you were on Suits, so I didn't even know if
Speaker 5: you're an actor like that, and so so we're cracking.
Speaker 5: She goes, oh, I love that character. And then my
Speaker 5: wife and I were telling her, Oh my gosh, you'd
Speaker 5: just seen it in Italy a couple of years ago.
Speaker 5: We went to Italy and we arrived in Florence and
Speaker 5: people are like just coming up to me, going, hey,
Speaker 5: can I get a picture?
Speaker 4: I'm like, what is going on?
Speaker 5: Then we go to Venice and the same thing happens,
Speaker 5: and everywhere we went in Italy, I keep getting like
Speaker 5: people coming up to me and going and they call
Speaker 5: it sweets instead of suits. Sweet sweet sweets, sweet sweets,
Speaker 5: and so it was a big deal there, and uh,
Speaker 5: it was really cool because I met people not only
Speaker 5: the Italians, but people from Australia and all over the world.
Speaker 5: It just shows you the reach of Netflix alone and
Speaker 5: just the industry, how it's so global now.
Speaker 4: And I kind of live away like things that came
Speaker 4: out a while ago.
Speaker 2: You can it can find it on you never know when,
Speaker 2: or like a song and a TV show where like
Speaker 2: with the Kate Bush song and it's a song from
Speaker 2: the eighties and it's.
Speaker 5: Like, correct, Yeah, time doesn't matter, Yeah it doesn't. And
Speaker 5: I would tell people, you know, I shot that show
Speaker 5: ten years ago. I shot Suits ten years ago, and
Speaker 5: there are people are just now discovering it. What's interesting though,
Speaker 5: is us my understanding that Nashville's on Netflix now too,
Speaker 5: but it's not getting the same reaction at least has
Speaker 5: it for me?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 4: Well, it depends and it's not like algorithm with that.
Speaker 1: It's like what Netflix is pushing out to the front
Speaker 1: and like you know, yes, yeah, wait, so you love
Speaker 1: directing or.
Speaker 5: What I do? I do love it? Yeah, it's a
Speaker 5: whole different half. I mean, you're uh, you know, acting,
Speaker 5: You're you're obviously you're work collaborating with the director and
Speaker 5: and your your crew, I mean, the actors that you're
Speaker 5: working with. But that's kind of you know, you're really
Speaker 5: focused on that, and there's a lot of mental time,
Speaker 5: you know, you're trying to focus on your you know,
Speaker 5: a lot of things with it. As a director, you're
Speaker 5: you're collaborating with the entire crew of everybody, all the
Speaker 5: department heads, the studio, the writers, the direct every the producers, everybody.
Speaker 5: So you're you're making lots of you know, hundreds of
Speaker 5: decisions a day, but you're also delegating and saying, hey,
Speaker 5: here's my idea, and you're and you're just trusting all
Speaker 5: these people that are really good at what they do
Speaker 5: to come to you and say here, okay, here's my idea.
Speaker 5: Here's my three best ideas, and you go, okay, I
Speaker 5: like that one, let's go. And so it's really fun.
Speaker 5: I like the intensity of it. You're and you get
Speaker 5: to start the project before the actors show up, and
Speaker 5: then you they all take off, and then at the
Speaker 5: end you're in there with the editor putting it together.
Speaker 5: So I like the whole process of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, jamp have you? And then did you direct episodes
Speaker 4: of TV that you were in?
Speaker 5: Yep? I did Uh Without Trace and Nashville. Yeah, and
Speaker 5: then did some stuff for Hallmark too, which was really fun.
Speaker 5: I really enjoyed that. I did a movie a few
Speaker 5: years ago with Kristin Chenowi and Scott Wolf and they
Speaker 5: were amazing, and Scott I played. I was in it too.
Speaker 5: I played Scott's best friend in the in the movie
Speaker 5: and I directed it, so I wasn't in every scene,
Speaker 5: but it was kind of fun to do both at
Speaker 5: the same time.
Speaker 1: A Christmas love story, that's right, that's right. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: like a Christmas King. Now are there more? Then?
Speaker 5: I don't know, we'll see, you know, maybe they'll maybe
Speaker 5: they maybe they will happen. I hope. So I have
Speaker 5: a great time doing those movies. They're really fun and
Speaker 5: people people love them. They feel good about it. You know,
Speaker 5: it's a it's a nice escape from the daily grind.
Speaker 4: If you were to come back on SVU, what would
Speaker 4: you like to play?
Speaker 5: Oh, I'd love to come back and be uh it
Speaker 5: be one of the investigators a detective or or an
Speaker 5: attorney and wanted to you know, and I whatever. But
Speaker 5: it would be fun. It would be fun to be
Speaker 5: I mean, look, I can't choose, but it would be
Speaker 5: fun to work with those guys and and be you know,
Speaker 5: out chasing the cases again, kind of like I did
Speaker 5: on Without a Trace.
Speaker 1: That was Yeah, I used to watch Without a Trace.
Speaker 1: I really liked that show. It's like, I bet we
Speaker 1: have I bet when people listen to this, they're going
Speaker 1: to know you from that too, because it's like it
Speaker 1: felt a little bit a s vwish to me, that show.
Speaker 4: That's like well constructed b more. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we really tried to. We really fought hard
Speaker 5: to give it as much gravitas or you know, in
Speaker 5: reality and you know, a made up kind of division
Speaker 5: of the FBI. So it was it was really cool.
Speaker 5: We had an FBI consultant on set who was a
Speaker 5: twenty seven year FBI you know, he was retired, but
Speaker 5: he was our consultant. His name is Mark. He was
Speaker 5: super cool and very informative and and we fought hard
Speaker 5: to just really make that show good. And I'm proud
Speaker 5: of that show, and everybody was all in. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: I wish it ran longer. It was kind of a
Speaker 5: you know, we we kind of went out on top.
Speaker 5: We were still in the top ten or fifteen of
Speaker 5: shows on TV and when we ended, so it was
Speaker 5: a good way to go. I'm not like, you know,
Speaker 5: down in the bottom, but we could have run longer
Speaker 5: for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kara is a sister's person. I got to talk
Speaker 1: to you about sisters. I can't believe you are sisters.
Speaker 1: I talk about it on this podcast all the time
Speaker 1: because Patricia Callimber, who plays Georgie was A is a
Speaker 1: judge that recurs on SVU all the time, and Susie
Speaker 1: Kurtz is a judge. Zoosie Kurtz is a judge, is
Speaker 1: a bad judge in an episode. And then I don't
Speaker 1: think Seal A Ward has ever done it. But I
Speaker 1: was obviously a Seal Award fan growing up. So your
Speaker 1: care I was trying to look up your character because
Speaker 1: I watched it when I was so young, Like what
Speaker 1: was your character on Sisters?
Speaker 5: So I basically was was, uh George Clinty two point zero. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so George was on there, and I, if I recall correctly,
Speaker 5: he played a cop or something. And then I came
Speaker 5: on and I was a cop okay, and yeah and
Speaker 5: and uh, I was fun. That was like really early
Speaker 5: in my career. And I had kind of a nice
Speaker 5: schedule on that. I was I think I had just
Speaker 5: gotten married. And uh, I loved all of them. They
Speaker 5: really made me feel welcome there, Susie and Seala, all
Speaker 5: of them. And we shot that at we shot that
Speaker 5: at Warner Brothers and the Water Brothers lot. So that
Speaker 5: was that was fun. And you know, you're working with
Speaker 5: you're working with veterans, and they really they kind of
Speaker 5: forced you to up your game, but they also are
Speaker 5: always open to giving you advice. When you're a young actor,
Speaker 5: you know, it's kind of starting it out, and so
Speaker 5: it was a good home and a good place.
Speaker 2: For me to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I loved that show so much, Like Wow, I don't even.
Speaker 1: Know if I've really talked to anybody who's been.
Speaker 4: On Sisters before. For so, this is exciting, that's awesome.
Speaker 5: I love that you liked that too. Nice. But when
Speaker 5: the show comes up that you know someone's not you know,
Speaker 5: if they're talking about oh it's suits or without Drace,
Speaker 5: but to talk about suits or every once in a while,
Speaker 5: I'll bump into somebody and I'll go, hey, I really
Speaker 5: liked you on this, and it's something that a lot
Speaker 5: of people can talk about. Like I did a mini
Speaker 5: series that Spielberg produced years ago, we called Taken, and
Speaker 5: someone just approached me and they go, oh, my this.
Speaker 5: They said something like, oh, you're on my favorite mini series.
Speaker 5: And I didn't know what they were talking about. And
Speaker 5: then they mentioned I go, oh, yeah, that was a
Speaker 5: great show. I loved you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just noticing Sisters is in Winnetka, Illinois and wine.
Speaker 2: I'm from Skochie, I think right next door. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 2: all right on, I got to watch some Sisters. You've
Speaker 2: really been working for a long time.
Speaker 5: Congrats, thank you. Yeah, I'm great, I'm very No, No,
Speaker 5: I'm grateful. I'm grateful because we all know it's the Yeah,
Speaker 5: the business is, you know, and it's different right now. Yeah,
Speaker 5: We've we're going through a lot of changes and a
Speaker 5: lot of production is going overseas, and you know, and
Speaker 5: it's there, there's some seismic shifts happening. So I'm grateful
Speaker 5: that I've had the career that I've had and I've
Speaker 5: I've worked with amazing people, and I'm not I was
Speaker 5: not like, oh yeah, it's it's the end, you know,
Speaker 5: but it's it's one of those things where I've just
Speaker 5: been very fortunate work with a lot of really awesome
Speaker 5: people and it's been really fun and just getting to
Speaker 5: tell cool stories and like I said, get to travel
Speaker 5: the world and meet all kinds of and it's not
Speaker 5: just in my industry. It's open doors to go all
Speaker 5: these places and meet all kinds of really interesting people
Speaker 5: that aren't even in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but yeah, the more people we talked to
Speaker 1: through this podcast, we just meet more people like you
Speaker 1: who were like had their careers where they lived in
Speaker 1: New York or LA and now are just like I'm
Speaker 1: living where I want to live and then I just
Speaker 1: fly where I gotta fly to go.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, it's the tape has changed at all.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and you know it's weird. Bonnie Zan was
Speaker 5: talking about this on Facebook last month. They were just
Speaker 5: talking about how everything went to tape and actors were
Speaker 5: lamenting about missing coming into the room and you know,
Speaker 5: getting a chance to you know, have personal interaction. I
Speaker 5: used to love that. You know, it's more nerve racking
Speaker 5: because it's like you're going on stage in front of
Speaker 5: the people that are going to decide whether they give
Speaker 5: you a job or not. But there was something cool
Speaker 5: about Like I remember one time I went in, I
Speaker 5: had a meeting with David Kelly and it wasn't and
Speaker 5: I didn't get the job. I thought I might, but
Speaker 5: I found out that he liked fly fishing and I
Speaker 5: liked flyfish, so we just started talking about fly fishing.
Speaker 5: We talked for almost five minutes, and I remember the
Speaker 5: casting director was kind of like, Okay, are we going
Speaker 5: to do this audition? And then I did it and
Speaker 5: it didn't go any further, but we really we made
Speaker 5: a connection. It was kind of fun, and a lot
Speaker 5: of times it does go your way because you develop
Speaker 5: a rapport and the director or the producer might go
Speaker 5: you know what I'd like to work with this person
Speaker 5: for the potentially the next five to seven years. And
Speaker 5: and so that kind of got that lost, you know.
Speaker 5: And now the cool thing about going on tape is
Speaker 5: you can you know, obviously, you can try and get
Speaker 5: it as good as you can and everything and fine
Speaker 5: tune your performance where you feel good about it. But
Speaker 5: you send it off and that's it. Yeah, you don't
Speaker 5: hear anything. It's like, well, you didn't get the job.
Speaker 5: So it's very different.
Speaker 1: And I mean, don't you think that there's people though
Speaker 1: that can Like, I guess if you can't jump off
Speaker 1: the tape, you're not going to jump off the screen, right.
Speaker 1: I was going to say it feels like you got
Speaker 1: to see people in the room to really feel their energy,
Speaker 1: but I guess that's not really how most people are
Speaker 1: going to be experiencing you.
Speaker 5: No, And I will tell you the truth. When I directed,
Speaker 5: I often cast off a tape because I could see something,
Speaker 5: because that's what you're going to see on the screen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and.
Speaker 5: So I personally think the room is more for connecting
Speaker 5: to someone just personally. But the tape, you know you're
Speaker 5: going to see, you're going to see a performance and
Speaker 5: it's you know, if the lighting's decent, you're going to
Speaker 5: get a pretty good idea what they look like camera
Speaker 5: and and if they have a sense of a camera
Speaker 5: and how they're you know, it hasn't worked for me,
Speaker 5: but no, it's kidd but it's a different it's such
Speaker 5: a different experience. But that started for me way back
Speaker 5: in almost twenty fifteen. Is like when we even before
Speaker 5: a pandemic, we I started noticing things were going to
Speaker 5: tape more. Yeah, yeah, but it is, it is what
Speaker 5: it is. Maybe someday it'll kind of open back up,
Speaker 5: and you know, because I think it's important. I mean, look,
Speaker 5: the human interaction in general is important, regardless if it's
Speaker 5: like our business. It's like anything like when all these
Speaker 5: people went home worked from home kind of stuff and
Speaker 5: left the office. You know, you want to come together.
Speaker 5: I mean you want it like all the shows we love,
Speaker 5: like Cheers and all these other shows where people came together.
Speaker 5: I mean, the human interactions like super important.
Speaker 1: So I think totally people are coming together over suits now.
Speaker 1: I feel there's right. I mean there's like you know
Speaker 1: we always talk about, there's like not there's not the
Speaker 1: same like water cooler culture of like we're all watching friends,
Speaker 1: We're all watching this. But like then when something really
Speaker 1: hits on Netflix and kind of comes back and people
Speaker 1: are I'm obsessed with them calling it sweets in Italy,
Speaker 1: that's amazing.
Speaker 5: Yeah sweet sweet. So at first I was like, what
Speaker 5: are they talking about? And then did you guys? Have
Speaker 5: you guys watched The Bear?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I only watched seasons. I just started it. It's pretty cool,
Speaker 5: so I'm I'm in. I'm into that. But yeah, sweets Is,
Speaker 5: I mean, sweets now now here I go, uh my
Speaker 5: inner Italian's coming Out No Suits Is just was a
Speaker 5: such a cool show. I loved all those guys. I
Speaker 5: worked with every one of them on on without a
Speaker 5: trace other than Gabriel, So I Gabriel was the only
Speaker 5: actor when I came on the show that I hadn't
Speaker 5: met before everybody else so they they I was a
Speaker 5: guest star, but they treated me like, I mean, like
Speaker 5: I was part of the family. After after work, we're
Speaker 5: all ever all going over to Megan's house. We're gonna
Speaker 5: go play Cards against Humanity. So you want to come?
Speaker 5: I'm like, yeah, sure. So that was really fun and
Speaker 5: I felt sorry, I felt really grateful that that's not
Speaker 5: the normal experience, you know, when you come in as
Speaker 5: a guest star. Yeah, that that relationship with the with
Speaker 5: the main cast is already formed, and you know, you
Speaker 5: kind of go home to your hotel room or your
Speaker 5: trailer or whatever, and they were really cool to just
Speaker 5: kind of let me tag along.
Speaker 1: People usually say that. People usually say that about SVU.
Speaker 1: I feel like as well, like even though they're kind
Speaker 1: of running twenty seven seasons now, like they really make.
Speaker 4: The guest stars feel welcome, is what people.
Speaker 2: Look because I think, yeah, I think they understand that
Speaker 2: the guest stars are like that are the ones that
Speaker 2: are the victims really having to.
Speaker 4: Do some emotional stuff. Yes, wasted, Yeah.
Speaker 5: You know, I like I remember Marishka went up. I
Speaker 5: told you I would circle back to Mariska like, so
Speaker 5: I remember being there and she obviously had her big
Speaker 5: cool bus, you know, and she and the other actors
Speaker 5: I was working with, She's like, hey, come on up,
Speaker 5: let's let's rehearse or whatever. So we all just like
Speaker 5: went up and hung out on her bus and and
Speaker 5: rehearsed and talked about some old times, you know stuff.
Speaker 5: Because the story I was going to tell you about
Speaker 5: Marishka was so when I was growing up as a kid,
Speaker 5: John McEnroe was like my hero and uh. And so
Speaker 5: I was obsessed with McEnroe because I was a tennis player.
Speaker 5: And so anyway, we were at this John McEnroe tennis
Speaker 5: event in uh North Ranch in LA and Uh, and
Speaker 5: I was like so excited, thinking, oh, maybe I'll get
Speaker 5: a chance to meet Mack, you know, because he's hosting it.
Speaker 5: So I get there and we end up having a
Speaker 5: little of an interaction and I like totally fan over him.
Speaker 5: I was like silly, but I was like, oh, you're
Speaker 5: my hero. Whatever. It was like embarrassing, but anyway, but anyway,
Speaker 5: that evening, we were getting ready to have dinner after
Speaker 5: the event, and Marishka and I had been talking and
Speaker 5: she comes over and she says, hey, have you uh
Speaker 5: have you met Tatum O'Neill and John Mecker And I go, well,
Speaker 5: I did a little bit, you know earlier, and she goes, well,
Speaker 5: come over, I want their friends. I want you to
Speaker 5: meet them. So she brings me over and I'm like
Speaker 5: hey John, we talk again. And now that there was
Speaker 5: a connection because of Marishka, he was even more cool,
Speaker 5: like open, you know, before I was, And it wasn't
Speaker 5: like he was a jerk to me. He just was,
Speaker 5: you know, I was just anyway. And Tatum was super cool.
Speaker 5: So we chat. We have a really nice time, and
Speaker 5: then later, uh, this is this is like the cocktail hour.
Speaker 5: Then dinner happens and Marishka comes back over and she says, hey,
Speaker 5: do you wanna do you wanna have dinner with John
Speaker 5: and Tatum and I and a group of us are
Speaker 5: at this table. They'd love to have you join. I'm like,
Speaker 5: you serious? So she sits me right next to Mac
Speaker 5: and we had the best night just hanging out and
Speaker 5: talking stories and I'm asking questions about Tennis and I mean,
Speaker 5: I mean, he's one of the greatest of all time,
Speaker 5: and I was. It was I will forever be grateful
Speaker 5: to her because she opened that door and for me
Speaker 5: to meet one of my childhood you know, heroes. So
Speaker 5: that was so thank you, Mariska.
Speaker 4: I'm so glad you remembered.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I will tell you what a couple of
Speaker 5: things real quick. Rosemary Rodriguez, who directed the episode, Yeah,
Speaker 5: she and I had worked together a bunch on without
Speaker 5: a trace. She's awesome and so to get reunited with
Speaker 5: her was a really cool experience. And she's a fantastic director,
Speaker 5: super passionate and fun. And and then the other thing,
Speaker 5: I was really cool and I didn't know that. I
Speaker 5: didn't expect this to happen is iced Ta and his wife.
Speaker 5: His wife was there a lot with him, and they
Speaker 5: had this big bulldog and I forget the dog's name,
Speaker 5: but anyway, maybe yeah, and he and the three of them,
Speaker 5: I would just go sit in his dressing room and
Speaker 5: we would just hang out and with with he and
Speaker 5: his wife, and they were so cool to me, and
Speaker 5: I was like, I'm hanging with iced Tea. This is
Speaker 5: pretty awesome. So really really made me feel welcome there,
Speaker 5: and and the whole experience was cool. And I appreciate
Speaker 5: you guys doing this because it was fun to go
Speaker 5: back and watch and just and just see it, you know,
Speaker 5: and for the first time too, So it's great.
Speaker 2: Got you we got that an Iced Tea story too.
Speaker 2: You keep giving us some nuggets because we love having
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 5: Very Oh they were so they were so cool. I
Speaker 5: didn't you know, you never know what to expect when
Speaker 5: you're there, and the fact that they were that cool
Speaker 5: to just let me hang.
Speaker 4: What a nice man.
Speaker 1: I love how he's just like live in a simple
Speaker 1: life up in Oregon, an early adopter of the Oregon lifestyle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had like a row of like not in
Speaker 2: a row, but like a few months of just like rugged,
Speaker 2: rugged guys, cowboy guys.
Speaker 4: They're in the South. They love New Orleans, you know,
Speaker 4: I don't know. Yeah, they love college football. Who do
Speaker 4: we talk to? Like, loved college football.
Speaker 2: Couldn't get enough, couldn't get enough love, the team supported,
Speaker 2: the team had the tickets.
Speaker 1: O casey, oh oh oh kat David Keith, David loves
Speaker 1: University of Tennessee, likes the balls, and he liked a gossip.
Speaker 4: Too, And I love that.
Speaker 1: We love we love a little bit of gossip. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love our guest telling a story about how a
Speaker 1: woman confessed to him on a plane that her husband
Speaker 1: was a or her friend or so who was eight
Speaker 1: was self sexual or something like. That's a big random
Speaker 1: conversation to start with a man you meet on a plane.
Speaker 4: Well, and let's talk about random.
Speaker 2: So if within the week of recording this episode met
Speaker 2: a young man who met his birth sister the day
Speaker 2: I bumped into this stranger and his dad was a
Speaker 2: sperm donor in the nineties, and they flew in and
Speaker 2: were staying at the same hotel as me, and he
Speaker 2: was like so buzzing from the experience that he didn't
Speaker 2: want to wake up his dad in the hotel, so
Speaker 2: he was like talking to him on to friends on
Speaker 2: the phone and like talking about this experience of meeting
Speaker 2: his birth sister and like loving her so much.
Speaker 4: And we had just.
Speaker 1: Recorded this episode, but hopefully not too much. What do
Speaker 1: you mean, Oh, yeah, of course, what do you mean?
Speaker 1: Genetic sexual attraction? A pseudoscience, a pseudo science.
Speaker 2: That's my This is honestly the most the most I'll
Speaker 2: ever talk about the episode and what I've actually learned,
Speaker 2: And what I've actually learned is that it's fake, that
Speaker 2: it's not real, and it's a pseudoscience and it's just
Speaker 2: something that might occur, but it's not like it's happening.
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's like it's not it can
Speaker 1: still be predators. Yeah, yeah, I guess still, you know,
Speaker 1: like we're like, oh, it just happens, and it's like
Speaker 1: or are you a Pedoh yeah, I don't know. The
Speaker 1: take on this episode is so weird. It's like if
Speaker 1: you're if a guy.
Speaker 2: No, but do you guys want to buy t shirts
Speaker 2: that say someone is raping your donor daughters and doing
Speaker 2: it in your name? Let us know if you want
Speaker 2: a sweatpant with that going down the side. We got
Speaker 2: the tommies. It's just such a weird I mean, Omar
Speaker 2: probably happy when he got that script. He goes, I
Speaker 2: cannot fucking wait to say this.
Speaker 1: It's such a weird plot for revenge to be like,
Speaker 1: you stole my girlfriend, you ruin my medical career, So
Speaker 1: I'm going to track down the girls that you don't
Speaker 1: know exist and have sex with underage girl, assault underage girls,
Speaker 1: impregnate one of them. Gotcha?
Speaker 4: Like what it if?
Speaker 5: You?
Speaker 1: Okay, if you thought you were going to do that,
Speaker 1: because it was going to get him in trouble. The
Speaker 1: girls are going to id who they had sex with,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? It's like if he
Speaker 1: had killed them, it would have made more sense if
Speaker 1: he had done it and then killed them. It would
Speaker 1: have been like, that's a way you can frame this
Speaker 1: guy that he's no, he wanted to How much time
Speaker 1: do you think he's getting?
Speaker 3: Like, what did he do?
Speaker 2: It's not kidnapping, Like what is it? I go, oh,
Speaker 2: it's sat they're young, they're young, young, they're statute. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: the rape.
Speaker 1: But I mean, like it's like, I don't know how
Speaker 1: you thought this was going to punish this guy except
Speaker 1: for having sex with his own daughter when you got
Speaker 1: to the doctor.
Speaker 4: But then what is the point of the other girls?
Speaker 4: He was trying to bring him down?
Speaker 2: Like the they just he didn't realize the NYPD was
Speaker 2: playing like that, Like he assumed cops are stupid, Like
Speaker 2: he thought he was gonna get away with it. He
Speaker 2: didn't know Olivia Benson was on the case. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: what happened. Like at the end of the day, they
Speaker 2: would have arrested this man, this doctor, and he would
Speaker 2: have gone to jail. But so but so he was
Speaker 2: but he was engaged, but no one identified him. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: like but he was engaging.
Speaker 1: With these relationships with teen girls because because he liked it, right,
Speaker 1: like obviously because he's a little bit of a pedophile,
Speaker 1: or like because.
Speaker 4: It feels like if it's just for revenge, but it's
Speaker 4: done stuff too.
Speaker 2: Maybe him and John Stamos's character can meet up in
Speaker 2: prison and kind of have a support group. Of weird
Speaker 2: breeding breeding problems.
Speaker 1: So weird. Okay, let's get into what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 4: Shall we?
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we, you know, point
Speaker 1: you to to an organization, an article, a doct something
Speaker 1: that gives you more info on what we talked about today.
Speaker 1: And we were talking about, you know, in the true
Speaker 1: crime part of it, like how sometimes this genetic sexual
Speaker 1: attraction thing happens when people are not like adequately prepared
Speaker 1: for a reunion with a biological parent that they haven't
Speaker 1: seen right or that they've never been connected to. So
Speaker 1: this week we wanted to point you to the organization
Speaker 1: Families Rising. Their mission is to assist adoptive, foster and
Speaker 1: kinship parents, educate child and welfare professionals, and champion the
Speaker 1: well being of children and families. They're committed to helping
Speaker 1: children develop both cultural and personal identity, offering support to
Speaker 1: all children in foster care and adoption experiences, including those
Speaker 1: who identify as LGBTQ. And I know in some of
Speaker 1: these cases there is it's like a sperm donor and
Speaker 1: the other parent is their biological parent, But I think
Speaker 1: this all applies. So for more information or to donate,
Speaker 1: head over to we are Families Rising dot org and
Speaker 1: that will be obviously linked in our show notes and
Speaker 1: in a story the day this episode comes out, and
Speaker 1: then we save those stories forever in our WWSPD highlights
Speaker 1: on our Instagram page, which is that.
Speaker 4: S messed up pod. You really killed it?
Speaker 1: They really did it.
Speaker 4: Thank you. It's so weird.
Speaker 2: It's like, while I'm organizing the stickers to give to people,
Speaker 2: like I think I'm like a generous person, and then
Speaker 2: I look and I'm like, well, what's the ugliest sticker
Speaker 2: I can give them because I'm not giving them the
Speaker 2: good ones?
Speaker 1: And then I feel like a really bad person. I
Speaker 1: feel bad. I'm like looking at them being like I
Speaker 1: just feel bad. Yeah, you don't want to give away
Speaker 1: your faves?
Speaker 4: I get that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's stickers right, yeah, Like those stickers are fleeting. No,
Speaker 1: they're not.
Speaker 2: I have a sticker book. We talked about this last week.
Speaker 2: I can't believe this is happening to me. And for
Speaker 2: those of you who don't know, it's actually back to
Speaker 2: back recordings. It was less than an hour ago I
Speaker 2: showed I did a full display of the sticker book.
Speaker 2: I know we're going to live on ever, that's forever.
Speaker 2: They don't eventually curl up off the page and fuck off.
Speaker 4: No, that's the whole point. I think. I can't know.
Speaker 1: I just think stickers like after a few years, I.
Speaker 2: Know you clearly are uneducated. Like you, clearly, I did
Speaker 2: not experience this ignorant.
Speaker 1: You can actually say ignorant ignor Your friends were just
Speaker 1: ruining their stickers in a book.
Speaker 4: Of course they were.
Speaker 1: I think I thought they were keeping them on the
Speaker 1: sheet and then putting the sheet in a book. No,
Speaker 1: because I think I'm about to like I was poor.
Speaker 1: I couldn't do all this right, like I'm about to.
Speaker 1: I'm about to go to back into my childhood in
Speaker 1: a way, like I don't. I can't wait to open
Speaker 1: up a sticker and put it in this book, Like I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, I can't. I'm so excited because usually it is fleeting.
Speaker 2: I use them for gift cards or like when I
Speaker 2: send a card or you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Now you've got the sticker book. You're not giving good
Speaker 2: ones to friends?
Speaker 4: Just you got it.
Speaker 1: This is gonna be great. I get the good one well,
Speaker 1: because like you're hoarding the good ones. I think it's fine.
Speaker 1: It's like which ones? You know you got more than one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, but like so then I'm gonna give
Speaker 2: this and it's like, so I'm giving the worst one,
Speaker 2: like this one's the best one. I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 2: what we're doing next week. Everyone wants to go home. Okay, sorry, okay,
Speaker 2: did were you gonna say something?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: Were you gonna help me out?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's Deadly Ambitions. He's in fourteen, episode fifteen.
Speaker 4: Oh no, with the stick.
Speaker 1: I was just saying, I wouldn't think that that one
Speaker 1: would be the best one. I thought it would be
Speaker 1: the one where they're facing forward. Oh that Yeah, they
Speaker 1: just don't look like themselves. Yeah, bad illustrations, but it's
Speaker 1: really cute. But it's cute, like I like it. Next
Speaker 1: week's next week, Deadly Ambition. That's like such a good name.
Speaker 1: From season fourteen, episode fifteen. We're thrilled you you listen
Speaker 1: to us, We love all of you. It sounds like
Speaker 1: a lifetime movie Deadly Ambition.
Speaker 4: It sounds like something I want tattooed on my body.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 4: So ambitious, I'll fucking kill you.
Speaker 1: All right, Thank you guys, We'll see you next week.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.
Speaker 1: Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Coottner, and.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen
Speaker 2: Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media dub the
Speaker 1: dun