WEBVTT - Racist Emojis Are Latest Test for Facebook, Twitter 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.159 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.520 analysts in more than one d and twenty countries. You 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.800 can download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.840 dot com. You can also listen to our radio show 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.319 at two pm Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.600 watch us on YouTube. Searched Bloomberg clovel News well handful 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.560 of headlines when it comes to the fight against COVID 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.840 nineteen in the United States and around the world. Pretty 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.919 we mentioned that there is a panel of scientists from 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.960 around the world who've been cautioning that most people won't 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.760 actually need a booster shop because vaccines are performing so well. 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.000 In the meantime, we do see on the Bloomberg Vaccine 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.120 Track or more than five point seven one billion doses 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.560 have been administered cases those are passing two four point 0:00:55.640 --> 0:01:00.200 seven million deaths exceeding four point six three million let's 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.280 get into it with Dr lager Day Williams, chief of 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:05.600 Staff of Neurology at Columbia University, also the founder of 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.200 Hip Hop Public Health. The organization works to deliver positive 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.720 health behavior change through the transformative power of music, art 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:14.880 and science. Dr Williams, it's great to have you back 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.000 on the show. I should know Bloomberg Philanthropies has provided 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.600 a grant to Hip Hop Public Health. Uh, what I 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.200 want to start with the booster news? Dr Williams, Where 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.480 do you fall when it comes to whether or not 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:30.360 we need boosters? Well, I I think that we the 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:35.120 general population. I don't think that's compelling evidence to support 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:42.240 UM the fact that the general population needs booster shots. However, UM, 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:47.520 I do support UM booster shots for certain populations, especially 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.840 those who are immuno compromise UM and and more. What 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.200 about age? Does does age? Where does general population fall 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:57.800 when it comes to age? Should people over the age 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.560 of sixty or sixty five? Yeah? I think yeah, yeah, 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:06.480 I there's not enough compelling evidence outside of those who 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:11.440 have really weak immune systems UM to you know, to 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.120 receive the booster And even those situations, I think the 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.000 booster is not really looked at as a booster shot, 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.680 but a third dose UM as opposed to a true 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:24.520 booster where we we really don't have sufficient effortency. You know, 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.440 what we're seeing is that there is UH, you know, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:36.480 there is a difference between falling antibody levels and vaccine efficacy. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:42.000 And we we know you know from immunology that UM, 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.160 you know, mild disease is more dependent on you know, 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:52.760 protection from these neutralizing antibodies. However, more severe disease UM 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.959 you know, involves not just your humor le or humoral 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.240 immune system, which is in the neutralizing antibodies that people 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.800 are also concerned about that are falling to vie a 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:07.360 disease also involved memory responses in another type of immunity 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:11.400 called cell mediated immunity UH and the cell mediated community 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:15.919 and these many memory responses have generally have a longer, 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.960 longer lived lifespan. And so we are going to see 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.760 breakthrough cases that we are going to see some mild disease, 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.400 but the vaccines are still pretty good at keeping people 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.399 out of the hospital and preventing to VIA disease. Dr 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.600 Williams to be a great point about that. Essentially, this 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.400 idea that when you do take the vaccine, your your 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.400 symptoms become a lot less severe, But does that also 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:41.480 lead to potentially a more like a larger likelihood of 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.520 contracting the virus simply because you do have your guard down. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.320 I believe there was a study coming out of I 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.839 want to say Scotland or the UK really really where 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.040 they started to see a lot of the new new 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:55.080 virus cases coming or happening in people that were actually vaccinated. 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.040 How do you how do you kind of think about that? Well, 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:03.440 my my biggest con earn is remains the unvaccinated. Uh 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.640 that that is my biggest concern, the unvaccinated and also um, 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.040 the you know countries around the world where they don't 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.440 even have um, they don't even have vaccines available for 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:18.080 their populations. I'm concerned about those two situate situations for 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:22.080 the same reason. One, I think the focus on on 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.120 you know, getting booster shots, you know, has kind of 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:29.240 clouded um, it kind of begins to slowly eclipse the 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:34.080 more serious issue, which is getting the unvaccinated vaccinated, because 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.960 that is where the real threat lies. You know, we 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.000 know that the vaccine because it's sufficient to prevent severities 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.760 even now. But what we also know is that the 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.279 cases we're seeing in our hospital. As of today, we 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.440 have two d and twenty cases of COVID in our 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.320 in our hospital where I am. I'm at New York 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.880 Vegetarian Columbia. Thankfully, our cases seem to be PLATEAUNG. But 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.200 one of the things that's completely unequivocal is that ninety 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:05.360 nine percent of our cases are among the unvaccinated um 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.400 you know, break the breakthroughs that we see a type 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.160 typically in the outpatient setting, people coming to the officers, 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.960 they have a little mild infective breakthrough and they go 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.680 they go home, and they quarantine, etcetera, etcetera. But the 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.680 real threat is that, yes, you know, with the delta variant, 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.760 we can be carriers of this of the virus even 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.880 if we're asymptomatic or exhibiting mild disease. But if we 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:32.520 come across the unvaccinated individuals, they can be severely get 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:36.280 severely sick from this disease to and potentially die. And 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:40.040 that is what we're seeing today. And so our emphasis, 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.520 in my opinion, needs to really focus on those unvaccinated 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.159 people because they're the ones that are most vulnerable to 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.680 getting sick and dying in the hospital and on the 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.240 same note, we also need to pay attention to some 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.960 to some of some of our low middle income countries 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.279 because you know, if that's where we're more likely to 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:02.760 get a new variant, another new area appearing um and 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.960 and potentially causing havoc around the world. R. Williams, you 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.120 make a great point about simply there's the divergence that 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.240 you're seeing between those emerging markets and developed markets. I 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.560 want to very quickly ask you if what you're seeing 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.440 in kind of the emerging market space where they are 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.560 really trying to kind of accelerate their vaccinations, what does 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.080 the time frame look like to really do that well. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.120 I think a lot of a lot of these low 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.799 middle income countries they have they're really crippled by poor 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:34.279 infrastructure UM and you know, poor testing capabilities for infrastructure, 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.599 poor backing distribution capability. That is a real challenge. And 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.520 and but a lot of these governments are really trying 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.880 uh to kind of ramp up their infrastructure, and they're 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.279 getting some support from from the international community now and 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.720 we're seeing, uh, you know, more vaccines arrived in some 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.839 of these countries. I want to get right back to 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.520 Dr lager Day Williams, Chief of staff of Neurology at 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:58.960 Columbia University. Also the founder of Hip Hop Public Health. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.880 Bloomberg Filancer has provided a grant to hip Hop Public Health. 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.839 The organization works to deliver positive health behavior changed the 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.920 transformative power of music, art and science. Dr Williams, I 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.560 want to get an update from you about what has 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.720 worked and what has not been working when it comes 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.360 to getting communities of color vaccinated. If I look at 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.240 New York City statistics, I can see that uh, black 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:29.320 and Hispanic or black UM demographically, blacks only here of 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.040 all ages who are eligible to be vaccinated in the 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:36.760 city have gotten vaccinated. That compares to eighty percent of Asians, 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:40.680 fifty seven percent of Hispanic and Latinos, and fifty of whites. 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.520 Give us an update from your end. Yeah, Well, the 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.600 good news is that the numbers are going up. Um. 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.520 We we've seen these numbers go up, especially over the 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:55.320 last a few months. Um and um. And I expect 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.880 that these numbers to continue to rise. And and I 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.200 think it's a it's it's a combination of up with 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.680 the factors that are driving these these rising vaccination rates. 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.000 I think one of them is dis continued you know, 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.320 ground ground. Uh, you know, grassroots, you know, one on 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:16.400 one counseling just just completely overwhelming. Uh. You know the media, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:21.280 you know, community organizations, getting our churches on board, working 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.640 one on one with individuals just to the message has 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:29.160 become almost ubiquitous now in that and these conversations have 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.720 been you know, have been really supported by some of 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.160 the mandates, you know, the sticks that are coming into 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:39.120 play across New York City where employers, including where I 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:43.080 am right now, are now mandating the vaccine. Dr Williams, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:44.480 just in the last minute that we have with you, 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.440 can you talk a little bit about the success of 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:48.600 Community Immunity and the follow up that you're working on 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.160 in just a couple of weeks. Sure. Yeah, we're so 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:56.760 excited by Community Immunity UM. It's been received across the country. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:02.760 Multiple organizations are are sharing this resource, community organizations, community 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.720 health workers. Uh. And what we're seeing is this really 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.560 sparkling a lot of conversations. Uh. And it's really we believe, 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.719 helping to move the needle that we're seeing not only 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:15.240 in New York City but across this country. We recently 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:20.680 added a new video on the variant um and which 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.960 we released recently and our most recent project is the 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.319 big launch of our Spanish community Immunity series and we're 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.800 very very excited about that. And when does that one launch? 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.360 That will be launching within the next next few weeks, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.600 so please um stay tuned, UM and UM, we will 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.240 be making some announcements very soon UM. And we're very 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.600 very excited by this because we think it not only 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.120 has direct uh, it's not only important for this country, 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.080 but I think it could also help with some of 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.600 our Latin South American countries in our lands, that Spanish 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.640 speaking countries surrounding us. Dr large Day Williams, it is 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:00.400 always great when you join us. Thank you so much 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:02.680 for taking the time. Dr Williams, Chief of Staff of 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.439 Neurology at Columbia University, also the founder of Hip Hop 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.960 Public Health. Bloomberg Philanthropies has provided a grant to hip 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.400 Hop Public Health is an organization that works to deliver 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.760 positive health behavior change through the transformative power of music, 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:20.360 art and science. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.880 Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.240 So you might remember just a few months ago after 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.839 Elon England that lost to Italy in July and the 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.640 final UEFA European Championship, black players for the British side 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.240 faced an onslaught of bananas. It wasn't physical fruit, they 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.200 were emoji slung at their social media profiles, along with 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:46.880 other racist imagery, including images of monkeys. With us now 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.080 is Joel Weber, editor at Bloomberg Business weekis with us 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.240 in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Also joining us Ivan Levingston, 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.640 European tech and advertising reporter at Bloomberg News. He joins 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.440 us on the phone from London. Joel, Whenever I read 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.400 a story like this, I think to myself, I thought, 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.560 we had the best and brightest working for these companies. 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:04.920 How can they not get these get this type of 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.400 content moderation under control. Well, it's one thing when it's words, 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.800 which I think is a struggle in and of itself, 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.120 and something that the tech companies have done a reasonable 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.960 job of at least attempting to address. But emojis bring 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.200 up a whole other challenge, and I thought that that 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:22.160 was interesting, especially just because of the One of the 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:24.720 interesting things about this article I found was even just 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.400 a history of of bananas and once upon a time. 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.520 Thirty years ago, there was there was an episode that 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.600 the story goes into where physical bananas were used, and 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.880 now obviously we're talking digital ones. So I then talk 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.839 to us about emojis and why they are such a 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:46.160 challenge for tech companies, sure saying, and you know, thanks 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.920 for the interest. Um. You know, tech companies have grappled 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.600 for years with abusive speech on their platform, and in 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.320 some ways, emojis are just an extension of that. You know, 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:02.439 people adapting new forms of communication into harassment. Unfortunately, it 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.400 happens um and and you know, as speech and and 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:10.520 you know, abuse adapts. Opposes a new challenge for social 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:16.240 media companies and content moderating algorithms because these algorithms will 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.959 be trained oftentimes on older texts, and so when they 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:24.080 encounter a newer character like in emoji, they have to 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.040 have to start from scratch essentially and figuring out what 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.840 it means. So I've even heard emoji's described as a 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.640 sort of a loophole because the algorithms are a little 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.440 bit behind on analyzing them. That's really interesting. How do 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.480 you really tackle something like this in a world where 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.000 pictures are always evolving, when their messages are constantly evolving, 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.000 especially in this climate. How does a tech company actually 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.280 manage this? Is it just about the algorithms or do 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.400 you actually have to have kind of the human component 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.199 in it a little bit? Yeah, I mean that's that's 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.880 something I explored in the story. I think. On the 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.240 one hand, you know, defenders of the tech company will 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.959 say that that emojis are very complex. Understand, you know, 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.760 pictures work a thousand words. Uh you know, is a 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:10.240 winky face a flirtation or suggesting a joke? Um. On 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.679 the on the other hand, um, perhaps is the place 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:19.640 where human moderators and and some kind of basic uh 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.160 you know, ground rules I guess can can play a part. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.320 You know, maybe an algorithm that might take millions of 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.960 examples to understand if an emoji is being used appropriately 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.840 or not. The human moderator might be able to very 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.280 quickly make that doesn't call and help train the algorithm, 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.280 or you know. I interviewed a startup called Respondology that 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.800 works with a lot of sports organizations, and they offer 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.319 a very simple screening tool where you can say, okay, 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.120 these are some emojis that we just don't want on 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.400 our athletes profiles, and just we're not going to worry 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.280 about what do they mean in this context of that 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.640 we're just gonna kind of blanket hide these comments. So 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.200 where specifically do the tech platforms will come into this? 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.960 What did what did Facebook the company that Instagram tell you? 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:06.120 And what about Twitter? Um? You know, they they stressed that, 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:11.240 you know, they're worried about all abusive speech, including emojis, UM, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.200 and that they were you know, active in the hours 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:20.320 um after the Euro's football match. UM. But it's it's 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.120 hard to really know what's going on inside the black 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.840 box in terms of, uh, you know, how they're tweaking 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.720 the algorithms to tackle emojis and and are there you know, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.640 you mentioned a couple in the story and obviously we've 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.120 mentioned a couple already that that um our emojis that 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.520 can be you know, used for for hate and and 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.480 is that is there sort of like is anyone keeping 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.160 score about like what the ones that are are the 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.160 worst are? And is one of the solutions simply to 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.840 like in a moment where something is trending, just to 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:55.760 make it not available anymore. Yeah, I think, um, I 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.760 think you know, Facebook, that's one of the things that 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.800 they're doing, is they've added a few classic strings of 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.960 emojis that are used almost always in in uh an 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:10.000 abusive way. UM, but sounds like a no fly list. UM. 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.440 I haven't seen any kind of score, but unfortunately UM 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.240 that that we would even need one. But UM, you know, 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.960 I think like the monkey emoji, the banana emoji, these 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:24.720 are um, you know, classic used in racist ways. And 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.960 I also mentioned the piece, um you know, the money 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.840 bag emoji. I think I saw the yellow star emoji 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.840 had been linked to you know, anti Semitic incidents. What's 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.480 and what's crazy here is also that professional athletes end 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.840 up being the ones that are are targeted the most, 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.760 and obviously they're high profile and have huge social following, 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:45.840 so it's sort of some extent it makes sense there. 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:50.160 But has there been noteworthy sort of hate UM directed 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.600 at anybody else that has caught UM attention of the 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:58.960 network of the social social media companies and tech companies. UM. 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.000 To be honest, when I was searching, UM, you know, 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.160 in terms of very recent the soccer players actually found 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.680 to be kind of the of the sphere on this 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.080 UM you know, it's been going on for a couple 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.600 of years, but there seems to be a real issue, um, 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.280 in terms of soccer players getting an abusive emojis on 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.040 social media, and I thought it was really interesting. I mean, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.080 it's not only limited to the soccer. Again, this startup 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.200 respondology that works with sports teams, uh, you know, their 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.480 president was telling me that when they go and they 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.120 work with the Detroit Pistons, the NASCAR, and their president 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.280 was telling me, you know, when we sit down with 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:39.360 sports executives, emojis almost always, you know, come up pretty quickly. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.720 It's it's a widespread issue for athletes. I and let's 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.000 take this international here, because we're talking about a European championship. 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:50.040 Things mean different, Different pictures mean different things in various countries, 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.040 in various part of the world. Did you come across 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.360 your reporting basically how some of these international tech companies 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:59.640 or are translating, for example, these international messages, like you said, 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.800 a banana emoji, for example, might mean something different in 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.800 the UK might mean something completely different. And let's say 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:12.399 Southern Asia for example. UM yeah, I mean I was 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.560 actually discussing with someone today an example of um, you know, 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.600 a player, a player whose nickname is the gorilla. Apparently 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.560 I wasn't aware of this example, but his nickname is 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.320 the Gorilla, and I guess, um, you know, there were 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.320 issues with people kind of cheering him on posting gorillas 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.320 on his page, and uh, you know these comments, I 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.879 guess for being deleted because they were being taken at 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.680 the time of abuse when they really weren't. So it's 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:39.159 it's certainly a nuanced issue. UM And again asking I 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.280 mentioned the piece, Uh, you know a few other kind 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.240 of examples in the past, like you know Apple about 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.719 five years ago. I think there was encouragement, uh you know, 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:54.640 allow for you have different skin tones emojis and UM, 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.920 and then they ended up being some criticism that actually 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:01.359 allowing different tone emojis created, you know, enabled new kinds 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:06.600 of um abuse and and the Indonesian government. Yeah, it's 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:07.920 we're gonna have to leave it there. But this is 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.679 a story that everybody should check out. It's available at 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.000 Bloomberg dot com. Ivan Lemmingston European tech and advertising reporter. 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:14.960 His story will be featured in the upcoming issue of 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:16.840 Business Week magazine. Read it now on the Bloomberg and 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.000 at Bloomberg Duck hom Slash business Week. Also joining us 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.440 Joel Webber, editor of Bloomberg business Week. This is Bloomberg. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.199 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:36.720 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stenovy on Bloomberg Radio. It's Bloomberg 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.919 Business Week, Tim stane A and Credy Gupta live in 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.639 the Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. These stories continue to come 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.160 out of China. We are fortunately joined by Andy Brown, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.119 editorial director at Bloomberg New Economy. He joins us on 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.560 the prone from New Hampshire. Andy, your your Saturday Bloomberg 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:57.200 New Economy newsletter, you write about After President Hi Jan 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.280 Pain came to power in twelve, he made it known 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.480 that he wanted to turn China into a soccer superpower, 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.760 host the World Cup and win it. Responding to that challenge, 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.000 some of China's richest tycoons developed a passion for the 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.160 quote beautiful game, and they splashed out on soccer clubs 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.400 and star players. But today the fortunes of the tycoons 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.240 who sought to cry favor with she they are sinking fast. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:22.399 What's going on? Yeah, So this is a sort of 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.320 a little morality tale if you like. As you just note, 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.720 he comes to power and and he wants to turn 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:34.520 around Um Chinese soccer, and the Billy and some of 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:38.359 the richest tycoons in China decide that they want to 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:44.400 ingratiate themselves with him by investing massively in soccer the game, 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:50.920 both in China and overseas, and they set up clubs 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.720 that you know, attract players from the top clubs in 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.879 Europe and Latin America. UH. And the best example is 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:03.560 a prime example is Guangzo ever grand Um, which was 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.879 set up by Shijayen the term of of Evergranded massive 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:14.399 real estate conglomerate conglomerate and Ali Bapa's Jack Ma. So 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:19.080 this whole effort has basically blown up UM. The Chinese 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.359 men's soccer team is about as pitiable today as it 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.479 was when Shi Jimping took power. It ranked something like 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.800 seventy in the world versus seventies seventh twenty when he 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.960 took over. UM. It's just about to crash out of 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.919 the World Cup qualifiers, lost one nail to Japan. Meanwhile, 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:43.320 billionaires as a class out of favor UH in China 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:48.560 and in particular Jack mar is in trouble. So what 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.560 is the international reaction to this? I mean, you talked 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.600 about one in your in your commer should say one 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:59.000 foreign signing such as Colombian Stricord Jackson Martinez. So, I mean, 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.920 people know this is happening. What has the international fallout 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.639 been like? This is this is really apart from the 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:12.240 fact that China is not the global soccer superpower that 0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:15.040 Chi Jim being hoped it would be. Um, this is 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:19.600 really a domestic story where um Si jimping is now 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:24.080 uh decided that he's seen enough of the of seeing 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:29.040 wealth being generated by a relatively small number of billionaires 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.760 and although a number that is increasing very rapidly um 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.200 and he wants them to give back and they're being 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:38.720 shaken down for billions of dollars to promote what equals 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:44.359 common prosperity or a more equipible society. So Andy, connect 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.080 this to what's happening with the Evergrand Crisis. As it 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.920 escalates this protests breakout across China. The group is facing 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.959 mountain protests by homebuyers, retail investors, and even its own employees, 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.800 raising the stakes for authorities in Beijing as they try 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:03.359 to prevent the property giants debt crisis sparking social unrest. Yeah, 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.520 this is a this is a different aspect of the crisis. 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.240 This is the government deciding that it wants to reign 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:16.639 in the debt of China's biggest property companies um and 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:21.760 it is it's taking out a swath of billionaire profits 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:27.840 and wealth. The latest, the latest billionaire couple actually to 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:32.399 run into trouble the husband and wife power couple John 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:35.760 Keen and Panther, the co founders of the Soho China, 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:41.440 which is one of China's primary office and retail property developers. 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:44.000 They had tried to sell the comp their company to 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.840 black Stone Stephen Schwartzman's Black Stones for three billion dollars, 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.880 and that deal then got stuck in an anti monopoly review, 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.119 and for reasons that are still unclear but probably not 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.800 unconnected to that review, which was going nowhere fast, blacks 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:03.359 own and so Hope hold the plug. On Friday today 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.720 you saw Soho China shares in Hong Kong plugs something like. 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:12.840 I want to ask you about why the American investor 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:16.439 should really paying attention to the story going on thousands 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.840 and thousands miles away connected to us, for for for 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:23.040 those of us who are unfamiliar, well, for two reasons. 0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:28.720 For firstly, because China is now a major investment destination 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:33.159 for Wall Street firms. They're rushing in the China to 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:38.399 take advantage of the country's massive pools of savings, and 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:42.120 they want to mediate those savings create wealth management products. 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:44.439 One day, they hope that they'll be able to to 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:49.120