1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,440
Speaker 1: today's best minds. And New York City Mayor Eric Adams

4
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,760
Speaker 1: has dropped his reelection bid. We have such a great

5
00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,800
Speaker 1: show for you today and the Lincoln Project's owned with

6
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,919
Speaker 1: Wilson joins us to talk about the impending government shutdown.

7
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to former CDC director doctor Tom Frieden

8
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,680
Speaker 1: about his new book, The Formula for Better Health, How

9
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 1: to save millions of lives, including your own.

10
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,320
Speaker 2: But first the news Somalia. John Thune said the not

11
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 2: very quiet part out loud that the farmers need bailouts

12
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 2: because these stupid fucking tariffs.

13
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 1: Yes, look, the farmers need bailouts. So does Argentina. We've

14
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,240
Speaker 1: cut cancer funding, we've cut the weather services, we've cut

15
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 1: basically all you know, nih Greens for medical tests, for

16
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,000
Speaker 1: different trials, for vaccines. We've cut this, we've cut that,

17
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 1: We've you know, But here's what we're going to do now,

18
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 1: because none of this makes any sense. We're going to

19
00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,200
Speaker 1: bail out the farmers because you know why they need

20
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,600
Speaker 1: a bail out, can you guess? Because of Trump's terrible

21
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:21,800
Speaker 1: policies because of the tariffs. The tariffs are hurting the farmers,

22
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:27,039
Speaker 1: but also because of canceling USAID, which was only supposed

23
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 1: to kill people overseas. But it turns out that USAID

24
00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:38,479
Speaker 1: was set up to use these crops and send them

25
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:43,240
Speaker 1: overseas to feed starving people. But Elon Musk, the richest

26
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 1: man in the world, didn't like that one bit. And

27
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: so since he was running our government, because he had

28
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,200
Speaker 1: donated so much money to Trump, and because Trump liked him,

29
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 1: and because he sucked up to Trump, he decided to

30
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,880
Speaker 1: cancel USAID, And because Marco Rubio is a complete cow,

31
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 1: he went along with it. And now we are here.

32
00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,240
Speaker 2: That sounds about right.

33
00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 1: So farmers are gonna get money. By the way, this

34
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,640
Speaker 1: happened in Trump's first term, and farmers don't actually like

35
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,040
Speaker 1: it because they have these farms and they're doing this.

36
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's just it undermines everything right to bail

37
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 1: people out in this way, it's just so fucked.

38
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,639
Speaker 2: Very stupid. So, Molly, my personal TikTok is very a

39
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,160
Speaker 2: buzz because there is much of the left organizing and

40
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,799
Speaker 2: information comes on TikTok. Benjamin net Yahu recently described that

41
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,119
Speaker 2: the new owners of TikTok will be one of their

42
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 2: great assets and weapons in the war with Palestine. The

43
00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 2: left is not very happy about this, and there's a

44
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,240
Speaker 2: lot of fuckery going on since it seems like the

45
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 2: owners of Fox News will be on the board as well.

46
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, TikTok, which is basically owned by the Chinese government

47
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:03,359
Speaker 1: and used to get our locations, maybe poison the brains

48
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 1: of our youth, including Jesse, no offense or anything.

49
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,959
Speaker 2: It's the evidence is clear on this podcast every day.

50
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,440
Speaker 1: So TikTok was meant to just do that. Our guy

51
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 1: Joe Biden decided that he was going to ban it.

52
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 1: Good idea, very nonpartisan, and most people were not for it,

53
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,799
Speaker 1: but both sides of the political aisle thought that banning

54
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,799
Speaker 1: TikTok was a good idea. Why because there was no

55
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,520
Speaker 1: transparency about the algorithm. So there was a question of

56
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 1: why the algorithm made Americans into psychos and Chinese children

57
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 1: into readers, right, I mean, there was certainly some difference there.

58
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,640
Speaker 1: And then also there was all this data collection, which is,

59
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,160
Speaker 1: you know, the Chinese government has basically malware on all

60
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 1: of our phones, which in itself seems kind of bad.

61
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,520
Speaker 1: So there was the thought that they would shut down TikTok.

62
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,720
Speaker 1: Now because Donald Trump then became president and realized he

63
00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,720
Speaker 1: could make money on it or whatever, realized like why

64
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 1: shut something down when there's some way to play it

65
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,720
Speaker 1: for me. He has decided to allow his friends to

66
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,640
Speaker 1: take shares in it. But again, like this, because of

67
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 1: Trump World, nothing has been thought out really well. So

68
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,720
Speaker 1: America's taitan steaks in different public companies. This is what

69
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 1: we usually think of as communism, but when Trump does it,

70
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,680
Speaker 1: it's called okay for some reason. So they have.

71
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,680
Speaker 2: We're all crony capitalists now.

72
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: Right, fifteen percent in Navidia trip Shale. And by the way,

73
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 1: because the law is not a thing anymore, we don't

74
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,080
Speaker 1: even know what's really happening. We just know what they're

75
00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,839
Speaker 1: saying is happening. But the investors we think we have

76
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 1: been told are going to be in this TikTok dealer

77
00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,000
Speaker 1: Larry Allison, the Murdochs who you may remember from Fox News,

78
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 1: and Andreas and Horowitz. That guy has a very funny

79
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:54,479
Speaker 1: shaped head. So we don't really quite understand what this means.

80
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,239
Speaker 1: China has been really clear that they do not want

81
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,719
Speaker 1: to give America any kind of trans parency on the algorithm.

82
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 1: Either way, this American government picking winners and losers. Maybe

83
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 1: Michael Dell's in it. We don't really know what's happening here,

84
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:14,279
Speaker 1: but we do know one thing, which is that Benjamin Netanyaho,

85
00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,679
Speaker 1: she President of Israel, who recently spoke at the UN,

86
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 1: and many many, many world leaders just ran out because

87
00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,359
Speaker 1: they did not want to hear it. Benjamin Netanyaho was

88
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 1: recorded this week talking about how great it's going to

89
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 1: be that his allies will own TikTok and how happy

90
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,040
Speaker 1: he is that his allies own X. In my mind,

91
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,839
Speaker 1: that strikes me as probably an indication that this is

92
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,600
Speaker 1: not going to be a free and fair media platform.

93
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm betting on it, but you know what I'm

94
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,240
Speaker 2: not betting on. And you know I say this as

95
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 2: somebody who we all know is pretty far to the left,

96
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,920
Speaker 2: is my fellow leftists are not going at leaving predatory apps,

97
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,919
Speaker 2: as evidenced by that they are more present on Twitter

98
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,160
Speaker 2: than most Democrats to their right.

99
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

100
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 2: It's very disheartening.

101
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,200
Speaker 1: It's disheartening, but again, I think there is a world

102
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 1: in which the functionality of TikTok could be on Blue Sky,

103
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,559
Speaker 1: the functionality of X. I mean, there's just the road

104
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 1: to Rome is paved with social media apps that have

105
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:20,920
Speaker 1: been abandoned.

106
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, this could be their MySpace moment for sure.

107
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

108
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 2: I will say, despite me being a Debbie downer there,

109
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,560
Speaker 2: we did see that Threads by Many Metrics is now

110
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 2: performing better at daily use than Twitter.

111
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, even though it's also terrible, it's fine for me.

112
00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's owned by again, Like, are we gonna

113
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 1: have a contest about who's.

114
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 2: I didn't mean in that context. I wasn't disgusting it

115
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,479
Speaker 2: in that context. I agree with you. There's no argument

116
00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,560
Speaker 2: from here. Okay. Trump has announced tariffs on pharmaceuticals, furniture,

117
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 2: and heavy trucks starting October first.

118
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that he's picked those three things.

119
00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,240
Speaker 2: It's that crodi capitalism think of picking winners and losers.

120
00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's also man in camera remember that from season one?

121
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 2: Never we'll forget it.

122
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, look, I don't fucking know again. Pharmaceuticals, it's

123
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 1: very stupid because there are some pharmaceuticals that you can't like.

124
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 1: There will be patented drugs you can only get from

125
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 1: different countries that you won't be able to get. I

126
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,640
Speaker 1: mean again, with all this stuff, you have to watch

127
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 1: for the cutouts because that's where a lot of the

128
00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 1: cryptocracy happens. The cutouts are like Trump's little that is

129
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 1: where he picks the winners and losers. So you'll wait

130
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 1: and see on this again. I thought we had already

131
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 1: everything all of these tariffs, So I guess there will

132
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: be more tariffs, right because you know, one hundred percent

133
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:44,040
Speaker 1: tariff on any branded or patented pharmaceutical product unless a

134
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 1: company is building their pharmaceutical manufacturing plants in America. Okay,

135
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 1: that is pretty vague. So we shall see. Are you

136
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,120
Speaker 1: going to have ice arrest the people working in the plant,

137
00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 1: because that's what you did at the Hondai plant in Georgia.

138
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 1: I mean, who wants to come here on open a

139
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,640
Speaker 1: factory when you know that there's a non zero chance

140
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:08,840
Speaker 1: that some of the people work in your factory will

141
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,760
Speaker 1: get arrested. And you know, I mean remember that when

142
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,320
Speaker 1: plane filled with South Koreans that was like two weeks ago.

143
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Bia, this one's pretty interesting. Oklahoma State Superintended

144
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,000
Speaker 2: Ryan Walters has resigned. You may remember him from doing

145
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 2: many psychotic things in that office and bringing Oklahoma all

146
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 2: the way down to the bottom state in education. Great

147
00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,679
Speaker 2: work there, but he's leaving to pursue his passion, which

148
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,440
Speaker 2: is getting rid of unions for teachers.

149
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: Wonder why he's leaving.

150
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,839
Speaker 2: He claims it's Charlie Kirk, right.

151
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 1: I mean, that doesn't make a ton of sense. A

152
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,439
Speaker 1: lot of times you see stories like this and then

153
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,440
Speaker 1: you see stories that make this story make sense. But

154
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 1: maybe it's just his love of Turning Point USA. He

155
00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 1: did say that every high school will have a Turning

156
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,199
Speaker 1: Point USA Club America chapter.

157
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there's a very funny thing of this.

158
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 2: Is that maga thing of that. I did a terrible

159
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 2: job rutting it, so I should be elevated even higher.

160
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 1: Listen, man, certainly possible.

161
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,840
Speaker 2: Okay, you're ready to go to a circle of hell

162
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,920
Speaker 2: that is very very dark. No, well tough. Clarence Thomas

163
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 2: says President might not determine cases on upcoming Supreme Court docket.

164
00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:26,840
Speaker 1: The irony here is President hasn't determined cases it. I mean, really,

165
00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,720
Speaker 1: you don't say I think my man is whatever you

166
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,960
Speaker 1: think that the Supreme Court can do. That's bad. Clarence

167
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,920
Speaker 1: Thomas is hoping you'll just know that he's playing something worse.

168
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,559
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I do give perspective to the president,

169
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 1: but the president should be respectful of our legal tradition

170
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,640
Speaker 1: and our country. Our laws are based on something not

171
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,440
Speaker 1: just something somebody dreamt up and others went along with,

172
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 1: like gay marriage. Sorry he doesn't say gay marriage. But look,

173
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,959
Speaker 1: things are gonna have to get worse before they get better,

174
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:09,600
Speaker 1: and this is part of that. Rick Wilson is the

175
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,680
Speaker 1: founder of the Lincoln Project and the host of the

176
00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 1: Enemy's List.

177
00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,120
Speaker 3: Rick Wilson, Hello, comrade, are you reporting from the Antifa

178
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:18,720
Speaker 3: Command and Control Bunker?

179
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So, Republican Donald Trump has decided that the left

180
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,840
Speaker 1: is now illegal the left? How does that work?

181
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,320
Speaker 3: In good It doesn't work. Everybody should look at it

182
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:34,760
Speaker 3: through two contextual lenses. One it's all Fox bait bullshit, right,

183
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 3: and two it's anything to stop the fact that people

184
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,480
Speaker 3: are beginning to understand that he's going to shut down

185
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,679
Speaker 3: the government this week to hide the Epstein files.

186
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 1: We are hurtling towards the government. Shutdown could happen as

187
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,840
Speaker 1: soon as Tuesday night at midnight. Put also not happen.

188
00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: Donald Trump had a meeting with Jeffries and Schumer, he

189
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 1: canceled it. Then in his infinite wisdom, he remade it

190
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,480
Speaker 1: art of the deal. Why cancel it and then say

191
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: they can he supposedly this was reported, he said they

192
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:13,560
Speaker 1: can fuck off.

193
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 3: Look my take on it has always been, there's no

194
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,440
Speaker 3: deal to be made with these people. Schumer and Jeffries

195
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,200
Speaker 3: both think that they're going to protect people's healthcare by

196
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 3: making a deal that keeps the ACA subsidies in place.

197
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 1: If they have not Republicans also want well, of.

198
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,439
Speaker 3: Course they do, of course they do. But here's the thing.

199
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 3: If they don't understand that funding the CR continues to

200
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,360
Speaker 3: fund all of Trump's other project twenty twenty five evils,

201
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:48,559
Speaker 3: and that Trump has consistently violated the law and canceled

202
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,080
Speaker 3: or changed the funding levels or reassign the funding of

203
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:58,800
Speaker 3: congression right of congressionally appropriated and authorized expenditures over and

204
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 3: over again. And this is this isn't like Rick Wilson's

205
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 3: lib TRD opinion. This is in the constitution, however, and the.

206
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 1: Book pocket recision in August piece in New York Times,

207
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,200
Speaker 1: reading it today, yeah, here's.

208
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,280
Speaker 3: What's gonna what I think what Trump would do. He

209
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,720
Speaker 3: would go into the Jeffries and Schumer say well, fine,

210
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,319
Speaker 3: all right, I'll keep the ACA stuff in and then

211
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,520
Speaker 3: literally decide, oh, well, the Blue states are in rebellion,

212
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 3: so I'm canceling their part of the ACA preservation. If

213
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 3: he doesn't think they don't think that this is what

214
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 3: this guy's gonna do, or some similarly destructive, evil, crappy thing,

215
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,760
Speaker 3: then they should not be in the offices they hold

216
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:39,319
Speaker 3: right now.

217
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,040
Speaker 1: Correct now, let's I want to go back to the

218
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 1: left being illegal. So this is like another one of

219
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 1: these Donald Trumpy proclamations that has no legal anything to it. Nope,

220
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: but he desperately wants to investigate George Soros and also

221
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,200
Speaker 1: Reed Hoffmann, who is so afraid of being investigated by

222
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 1: Donald Trump he no longer even lives in this country.

223
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,120
Speaker 3: Molly, Donald Trump understands one important thing that there is

224
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 3: no one in DC who is going to stop him.

225
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 3: No one, Supreme Court is not going to stop him.

226
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,720
Speaker 3: Certainly House aren't going to stop him. John soon that

227
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,680
Speaker 3: wet Mattress isn't going to stop him.

228
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,960
Speaker 1: Well, today on the Sunday Shows, when Wilker said, do

229
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,800
Speaker 1: you think it's okay that Trump sends troops into cities,

230
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 1: thus violating the Posse Act. Soon says, what.

231
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,680
Speaker 3: Will stop him, and the only thing that's going to

232
00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,199
Speaker 3: stop him is losing the House. I don't buy the

233
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,080
Speaker 3: argument that Trump wants to lose the House so he

234
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 3: can be a martyr again.

235
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:47,520
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not.

236
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,680
Speaker 3: What will stop him is losing the House. Now. The

237
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 3: reason we're not going to get a cr this week

238
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,600
Speaker 3: is that Mike Johnson cannot have the House in session

239
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,480
Speaker 3: without having since Grialva one in air Zona, he cannot

240
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,040
Speaker 3: have the House in session without the discharge vote to House.

241
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: So he has to he would swear, and there's been

242
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 1: a new seat, there's been a Democrat elected. Now Democrats

243
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 1: have the numbers to pass this Epstein bill that would

244
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 1: in fact make it.

245
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 3: And by the way, on Friday, I spoke to somebody

246
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 3: in the Republican political orbit that expressed to me the

247
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 3: level of investment in the White House of panic in

248
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 3: this is through the roof. There's been some reporting on it,

249
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 3: but the way it was described to me of this

250
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,400
Speaker 3: person was, this is an all hands on deck hole

251
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 3: of government effort to stop this. They're doing everything they

252
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:46,840
Speaker 3: can and.

253
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 1: That's why the House is at a session.

254
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 3: Yes, I was also told he may declare this information

255
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 3: to be classified to prevent its release next week, So

256
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 3: we'll see if he does that. I don't think it

257
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 3: works for him the way he thinks it works. The

258
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 3: more he does this, the more people go, what is

259
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,920
Speaker 3: in this thing? Is it a dead Is it a

260
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 3: dead girl? Or a live boy? Or or or a

261
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 3: bunch of goats? What is it?

262
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it is the stri sand effect, right, that

263
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,680
Speaker 1: you're going to hide something by making such a big

264
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 1: deal that everyone's going to be interested in it. I

265
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,800
Speaker 1: thought Mike Johnson had said he might not seat that Congress.

266
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 3: He no, he has. Alreay said he won't seat her

267
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,640
Speaker 3: even though she won the race by almost forty points. Right,

268
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 3: he's always said he won't seat her because of of reasons.

269
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 3: He doesn't have a reason. He's just saying, you won't

270
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 3: do it. But he recognizes now that that the government

271
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,160
Speaker 3: will shut down, and no one's going to say, by

272
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 3: the way that the Republican one is, you're trying to

273
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 3: give you legals healthcare and free money, nobody's gonna buy it.

274
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 3: Nobody buys it.

275
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,520
Speaker 1: Is nobody gonna buy it. Because I feel like a

276
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 1: shutdown is a messaging war.

277
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 3: Here's the big part of it. If the economy was

278
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 3: booming and the government shut down, everyone would go damn

279
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 3: throw things off track. But Trump has already driven the

280
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,800
Speaker 3: economy into the ditch. We're not reporting the inflation statistics

281
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,920
Speaker 3: because do you think it's because they're great or terrible.

282
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 3: We're not reporting unemployment statistics because because they.

283
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 1: Shared the head, right, Yes.

284
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 3: And this weird guy that he replaced him with is like,

285
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 3: now we're just not gonna report anything. Yeah, we're just

286
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 3: gonna stop. We're not doing anything.

287
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 1: Makes sense, you know.

288
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,720
Speaker 3: But the left is illegal game.

289
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,520
Speaker 1: This hour is made. You're gonna meet with Trump also

290
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 1: does want a bailout for farmers who are being hurt

291
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,119
Speaker 1: by his tariffs.

292
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,120
Speaker 3: You know what, Honest to god, Democrats, they do not

293
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 3: understand this yet. You notice all these articles these farmers

294
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,600
Speaker 3: are like, our markets have collapsed, We're gonna lose our farms.

295
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 3: We're in economic calamity. Oh no, what was the reason

296
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 3: for that? Who caused that? What single individual cause that?

297
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 3: And I gotta tell you something, if Jeffries and Schumer

298
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,120
Speaker 3: walk in there without a demand to Trump, yeah, we'll

299
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 3: pass relief for farmers, undo the tariffs, right, now, right now,

300
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 3: give respect the power to do its tariffs and to

301
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,400
Speaker 3: set tariffs right now. They should not negotiate with a terrorist.

302
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 3: He is a terrorist. They don't understand this rule. We've

303
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 3: seen a lot of maga in the last week to

304
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,520
Speaker 3: ten days, like trying to whip up this frenzy and

305
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 3: Tifa in Portland. We must invade the city, total war.

306
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,159
Speaker 3: You know, I was in Portland, Brenanda were in Portland

307
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,360
Speaker 3: in January, and the charming coffee shops and boutiques downtown

308
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 3: did not strike me as Mogadishu circa nineteen ninety one.

309
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 3: And it's but it's a sign of how desperate they

310
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 3: are and how bad Trump's political standing is right now.

311
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 3: He needs to shake the tree. He needs to shake

312
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 3: things up and do something so that people don't every

313
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,879
Speaker 3: day focus on how bad the economy is. And by

314
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 3: the way, Democrats, if they do end up in this

315
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 3: messaging war about the shutdown and farmers, there's a very

316
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 3: simple answer. Have the day you voted for, We tried

317
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 3: to help you. Donald Trump is the one who did

318
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 3: this to you. Donald Trump is the one who did

319
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 3: this to you. Not a single Democrat set a tariff

320
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 3: that is screwed American farmers an egg. Not a single

321
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,800
Speaker 3: Democrat set those terraffs.

322
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 1: Not a single Demoran canceled the foreign aid right.

323
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 3: Not a single Democrats decision killed the USA I D budget,

324
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 3: which paid American farmers an awful lot of money every

325
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,639
Speaker 3: year to help feed impoverished people around the world. Not

326
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,120
Speaker 3: a single one. So, I mean, I wish we could

327
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 3: declare stupidity to be illegal, but we clearly cannot in

328
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,639
Speaker 3: this country. And what Trump has done is unbelievably stupid,

329
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,480
Speaker 3: and the harm that is being done to these farmers.

330
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,640
Speaker 3: You know, Look, the Democrats have this this health care,

331
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,399
Speaker 3: health care. Health care is the only thing that matters.

332
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 3: They think it's the only they think it's the one

333
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,719
Speaker 3: sharp knife in the entire tool of the drawer.

334
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:41,879
Speaker 1: They are tariffs.

335
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 3: The people hate it and they feel it and it's

336
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 3: hurting them every single day. And if you don't put

337
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 3: the tariffs onto Trump, the White House will say we didn't,

338
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 3: we didn't, we didn't set those tears, we didn't cause

339
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 3: China to cancel the.

340
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 1: Contracts right right now, It's true.

341
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 3: You're not to win back a lot of MAGA voters

342
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 3: if you're for the Democrats. By the way, by saying, oh,

343
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 3: poor babies, we'll we'll fix the problem Donald Trump caused

344
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 3: for you love us now because you know what they'll

345
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,040
Speaker 3: do the second they do. They're like, well, I didn't

346
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,360
Speaker 3: want to have them pedophiles we bail my farm out,

347
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 3: but I had to.

348
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: I just wonder how you make a deal with a terrorist, right,

349
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the question. How do you make a

350
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,199
Speaker 1: deal with someone you know will reap? I mean, this

351
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 1: is the problem that all of our allies are having too.

352
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 1: How do you make a deal with the country you

353
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 1: can't trust?

354
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,520
Speaker 3: Listen Schumer and Jeffreys. Like Schumer had a terrible tweet

355
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 3: on Sunday, it was like, oh, Donald Trump's any troops

356
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,480
Speaker 3: to Portland. Maybe focus on preserving healthcare instead. It's so

357
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 3: tone deaf, it's so tone deaf.

358
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: Well, you don't have to choose, right, No.

359
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 3: You don't. It's not an either or. They should walk

360
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 3: in that room and say, f you either undo the

361
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,640
Speaker 3: tariffs right now, or you get no aid for your farmers.

362
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 3: And the Republicans in these red states whose people depend

363
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 3: on Medica Care, Medicaid, Social Security, and an ACA, they're

364
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 3: going to be coming to you pal, not us. We

365
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 3: didn't cut it a for it. You're the one who

366
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 3: cut those things. You're the one who has had the

367
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 3: stated desire from the very beginning of your first campaign

368
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen to burn the ACA to the ground.

369
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: Right us, Right, No, it's true, and there's and you

370
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: know Trump has said as much.

371
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 4: You know.

372
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. The other thing you mentioned is like, how do

373
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 3: you negotiate with the terrorists? How do you negotiate with

374
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 3: a person who's senior aide Stephen Miller, is calling all

375
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 3: Democrats part of a global terrorist effort to destroy America.

376
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 3: How do you negotiate with a White House that put

377
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 3: out a hit list of Democratic leaders now this week,

378
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,440
Speaker 3: a hit list that MAGA has decided is a hit list.

379
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 3: How do you negotiate with people who say that you

380
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 3: are terrorists, traders, murderers, pedophiles, criminals, globalist, shills, whatever the

381
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 3: phrase you want to pick, they're going to use it

382
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 3: on you. Don't negotiate with those people. There can be

383
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 3: only one outcome if you negotiate with them is that

384
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 3: they will betray you, They will screw you over, they

385
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 3: will put you in the ground, and God forbid. I know,

386
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 3: I know as an ex Republic and a lot of

387
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,200
Speaker 3: Democrats are like, well, we can win on policy, sir.

388
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: No, No you can't.

389
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can't.

390
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: I mean, at least Jeffries and Humor are aligned that

391
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,959
Speaker 1: they both want they both which they have that they

392
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 1: were not in March, so if any we have that.

393
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 1: But it's more like, I just think they can't explain

394
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: it in a way that you know, if you say tariffs,

395
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 1: we want you to end the tariffs and we'll give

396
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 1: you the bailout, that makes a lot of sense versus

397
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: like a twenty five line soliloquy on healthcare and premiums.

398
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm not sure people understand premiums.

399
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 3: No, they don't, of course, it's a classic Democratic bank

400
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 3: shot problem. Well, they'll they'll they'll see their bill rise,

401
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 3: and they'll understand that if we had negotiated a cr

402
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 3: with these provisions. They will never do that. Voters will

403
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 3: never do that. In fact, I'm going I'm gonna get

404
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,719
Speaker 3: in trouble for saying this. I want voters to suffer

405
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 3: right now. I want them to experience the pain of

406
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's mistakes. Democrats should not relieve Donald Trump of

407
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: the political burden he has placed on the Republican Party,

408
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 3: they should not save him. They're going to save him.

409
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,680
Speaker 1: And that's why a lot of Republicans want those subsidies.

410
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: And that's why, you know, the problem with the twenty

411
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: twenty four cycle was you would say to voters Trump

412
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: wants to take this stuff away, and they'd say, no,

413
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: he didn't last time, right, right, So if he didn't

414
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: do it last time, why would you do it this time?

415
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 1: And that created a lot of incentive structure for Trump.

416
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 3: The other thing that Democrats, if they vote for the CR,

417
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 3: I know it's only a seven week CR, right right,

418
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 3: if they have this illusion that will fight the fight later.

419
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 3: That's seven more weeks of Stephen Miller's secret police forces

420
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 3: being in our streets funded fully. That's seven more weeks

421
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 3: of Russell Vought running the Project twenty twenty five the gen.

422
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 3: That's seven more weeks of Brendan Carr trying to shut

423
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 3: down free speech with broadcast networks. That's seven more weeks

424
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 3: of Donald Trump deploying Pete Hegseth to drag four hundred

425
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 3: generals into a room for whatever mysterious goddamn reason. That's

426
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 3: seven more weeks of Donald Trump burning down the economy.

427
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 3: They are there. If they relieve him of this, of

428
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 3: the pain he's going to cause American voters, they are

429
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 3: fools writ large.

430
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 1: But if we hurtle into a shutdown, which is very possible,

431
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 1: then you have a question of who can withstand the

432
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: most pain.

433
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: The Democrats are in the minority. They don't have any

434
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 3: responsibilities in Washington. The White House is controlled by MAGA.

435
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 3: The House is controlled by MAGA. The Senate is controlled

436
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 3: by MAGA. The Supreme Court is controlled by MAGA. Nobody

437
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 3: thinks the Democrats can do shit about fuck right now, Molly,

438
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: So they might as well just say let it burn.

439
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 3: It's all on you, Donald.

440
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: But eventually someone's gonna I mean so Russ Vaughan has

441
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 1: this memo that he's going to fire everybody in the world.

442
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so, let him do it. Let him

443
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 3: do it, let them do it. It will hasten the

444
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 3: economic collapse into a massive recession. We're already teetering on it.

445
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: It will hasten the economic collapse. That Donald Trump owns

446
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 3: lock Stock and Beryl. He has done this to us.

447
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 3: There's been zero democratic voice or role in designing this

448
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 3: economic calamity. And this is where Trump's own arrogance, it

449
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 3: will doom him. He's I'm in charge of everything. I

450
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: run everything. No one can do anything without me and

451
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 3: my and my permission. Okay, you're right, boss, that's what

452
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 3: you did, has You're right, you burn it all down.

453
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 3: By the way, the idea that voters will reward Democrats

454
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: for being responsible leaders.

455
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: Right, that's never happened ever, right, I mean.

456
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 3: That's yeah, never, that never in the history of that, right.

457
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: Right, And that's true. And I do think, yeah, voters

458
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: will never reward that kind of behavior. So you could

459
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: get into a shutdown and you think eventually Trump will cave,

460
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: because he has historically caved.

461
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 3: The problem is the longer we're shut down the now.

462
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 3: The one upside for Trump in a shutdown is the

463
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 3: longer we're in a shutdown, he will just say, can't

464
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 3: release the Epstein file, So sorry, guys, shutdown. Right, That's

465
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 3: the only upside for Trump. And it should tell you

466
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 3: everything about this that they understand this very intimately. They

467
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: get the political delaying factor that this will cause.

468
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 1: And you have voting in New Jersey, not New Jersey

469
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: yet coming.

470
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 3: Virginia, voting Virginias and New Jersey. I think his next

471
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 3: soon Wednesday soon.

472
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: I mean, how does that factor.

473
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: Well look in New Jersey. I think Cheryl's in pretty

474
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 3: good shape. In Virginia, the Republican candidate is historically bad, Yes,

475
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 3: and that is causing a lot. Yes, when the Republicans

476
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: picks winsomsters, they weren't sending their best.

477
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: Yes, that is she's she's like, she's really up there

478
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: with the It proves.

479
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 3: That point that it's really hard for MAGA to scale

480
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: when it's not Donald Trump. We've been talking in a

481
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 3: deep red state or district.

482
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: We have been talking about MAGA scaling for like we've

483
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: been doing this for a fucking decade. Yeah, and it's

484
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: so sad, but it is true. We've gotten so much,

485
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: We've gotten so old. As much as trump Ism is

486
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: terrifying at this moment, there have been so many losses

487
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: that I don't think people have. I mean, I just

488
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: want for two seconds, because I was I was on

489
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: TV earlier and the block before me, there was like

490
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: a reporter, a White House reporter who came from the caller,

491
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: who was notching through all of Trump's wins, and I,

492
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: you know, and maybe he'll go to Portland, but like

493
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: he didn't go to Chicago. What he did in now

494
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: was considered illegal. I know he doesn't care about illegal,

495
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: but it was. He has He lost on the chemo fight, right,

496
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: lost against Sinclair. If there ever were a group that

497
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: wanted to the best for Donald Trump, who Claire Sinclair? Okay,

498
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: so these are already three big losses then, you know,

499
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: I mean there's been you know, in court again and again,

500
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: except when it comes to the Supreme Court because they're

501
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: his buddies. But I mean he has really this has

502
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: not been the cake walk he plays it to be.

503
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: No, Molly, Look, I think this is really important to understand.

504
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is a historically unpopular president. About a third

505
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 3: of America loves Donald Trump with the fire of a

506
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 3: billion suns. The rest of America is on a scale

507
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,479
Speaker 3: somewhere between disappointment, dislike and would not piss on him

508
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: if he was on fire. This is not a popular president.

509
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 3: His numbers are in the mid thirties, now creeping toward

510
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 3: the low thirties. His numbers on the most important leadership

511
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: valence right now the economy are insanely underwater. He's twenty

512
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 3: to twenty seven points underwater on various economic scoring things

513
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: like the tariffs, like inflation, like prices, like jobs. No

514
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: one believes in the economic vision that Donald Trump has created,

515
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 3: including a majority of Republicans. Yeah, they understand that he

516
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 3: is an incompetent. The craziness was always excused in the past,

517
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: but now you can't excuse it anymore. You can't pretend

518
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: it doesn't exist anymore. You can't pretend it doesn't have

519
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 3: a direct and immediate impact anymore, because it does.

520
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: Luke Wilson, Molly John Fast. Tom Freeden is the former

521
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: director of the CDC and the author of the Formula

522
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: for Better Life, How to Save millions of lives, including

523
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: your own. Welcome to Fast Politics, Tom, great to speak

524
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: with you. You are former CDC director. Would be malpractice

525
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: if I did not ask you just quickly about these

526
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: Kennedy hearings. I know you're here to promote a book,

527
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: but talk to me about what is going on here.

528
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 4: This isn't about democratic versus Republican. There's been plenty of

529
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 4: Republican and democratic partnership and successes in public health, both

530
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 4: in the US and globally. This is about fact versus fiction.

531
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 4: This is about simple, clear, plain truths versus debunked misinformation,

532
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 4: and what we're seeing is the systematic destruction of the

533
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 4: vaccine protections that Americans depend on. How far they'll go,

534
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 4: I don't know, but it's clearly a huge risk to kids, adults,

535
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 4: and seniors in this country.

536
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: Let's just talk for a minute about this risk we

537
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: live through the pandemic we are in this moment. I mean,

538
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: do you ever think, as a doctor who's specially I

539
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: was in public health and it has led many of

540
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: these agencies that you would live in a time when

541
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: there's such hostility towards science.

542
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 4: I could never have believed that a day would come

543
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 4: when I can't trust what's on the CDC website. What

544
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 4: we see is really a hijacking of the CDC brand.

545
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 4: You have twelve or so political appointees and no career

546
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 4: officials running the agency at this point. So it's really

547
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 4: concerning what we're seeing, and of course it does reflect

548
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 4: a lot of suspicion, a lot of hostility, a lot

549
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 4: of lack of understanding, and real mistakes that public health

550
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 4: made at state, city, and national levels.

551
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: Your book focuses on sort of the macro the micro

552
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: of public health. Talk to me about the micro or

553
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: the macro with.

554
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 4: This, well, what the Formula for Better Health outlines is

555
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 4: an approach that has been proven to save millions of

556
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 4: lives that can save millions more. Actually, is also quite

557
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 4: relevant for individual health decisions. It's to see, believe, and create,

558
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 4: to see things that are not obvious, that are not apparent,

559
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 4: whether it's trends in society, or whether programs are working

560
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 4: or failing, or what The real pathway to progress is

561
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 4: to believe we can make progress by recognizing past progress

562
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 4: and making phased progress now and maintaining optimism, which sounds

563
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 4: delusional today, but actually there are ways to do it

564
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 4: and it's evidence based. And finally, to create a healthier future,

565
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 4: which requires simplifying, organizing, communicating, and overcoming the inevitable barriers

566
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 4: that are in the way of public health progress.

567
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: What are some of those barriers.

568
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 4: Here's a conceptual thing that you may be interested in, Molly,

569
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 4: maybe not. There's something called the Cassandra curse, and the

570
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 4: Cassandra curse. Cassandra from Greek mythology could see the future,

571
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 4: but she was cursed. Nobody believed her, and so the

572
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 4: tragedies that she could foresee came to pass because people

573
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 4: didn't change their behavior to prevent them. Public health, individuals,

574
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 4: and society in general have had a Cassandrickers. We can

575
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 4: predict what's going to happen, but we can't stop it.

576
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 4: There are a lot of reasons for that curse, but

577
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 4: one of them is something called the prevention paradox. And

578
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 4: the prevention paradox basically says that the things that make

579
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 4: the biggest difference to the health of society only make

580
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 4: a very little difference to each individual. That might be

581
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 4: putting folid in your food, or iodine in the food,

582
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 4: or reducing transpat which we've done at my organization with

583
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 4: the World Health Organization that is going to prevent something

584
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 4: like nine million deaths. But those changes, because the benefits

585
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 4: are diffuse but the costs are concentrated, create a structural

586
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 4: challenge that most things that advance public health are good

587
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 4: for everyone a little bit and bad for a few

588
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 4: groups like tobacco executives a lot, and so in our

589
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 4: political system and in most political systems around the world,

590
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 4: there is a lot of opposition to things that are

591
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 4: good for everyone somewhat and can make a huge difference

592
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 4: to health.

593
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: I would love you to talk about herd immunity because

594
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 1: this seems like a very important point in this Cassandra paradox. Right,

595
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: we know this is bad. We know something real bad's

596
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: coming on herd immunity. Talk us through what this.

597
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 4: Is and what this looks like for any one child.

598
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 4: You know, there are a lot of benefits to not

599
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 4: being vaccinated. It hurts, you have to take time out

600
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 4: of your schedule. It may cost some money or travel.

601
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 4: There's a one in a million chance that something bad

602
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 4: will happen, but only if all the other parents don't

603
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 4: say that and everyone else gets vaccinated. I started my

604
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 4: public health career in New York City on huge measles

605
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: outbreaks that were happening at the time. Thousands of cases,

606
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 4: hundreds of kids hospitalized, dozens of kids severely ill or dying.

607
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 4: And the only way we can stop measles is by

608
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 4: getting a very high immunity. We really all are connected.

609
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 4: Your health doesn't just depend on you, It also depends

610
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 4: on your community.

611
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: I assume that this must be the same as it

612
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: was with the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic. Is there something

613
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: we can learn from history about how to win back

614
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: hearts and minds with this.

615
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: One thing that's very consistent? If you look back at

616
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 4: the historical record, people just stop talking about the pandemic

617
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 4: right after it. They just didn't want to deal with it.

618
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 4: They didn't want to talk about it. And I think

619
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 4: that's what we're seeing with the current period and COVID.

620
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 4: The way public health succeeds is by communicating better, listening

621
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 4: to what people have to say, by making consistent winds,

622
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 4: small wins to rebuild a trust, progress on things that

623
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 4: people care about, and avoiding require anything unless it's really

624
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 4: essential to require.

625
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: So what does that mean? Avoiding requiring anything unless it's essential.

626
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: That seems like could cover a lot.

627
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: It could.

628
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 4: I think when we look back on COVID, many of

629
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 4: the mandates really were bad ideas. When it came to vaccination,

630
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 4: Initially it looked like vaccination prevented you from getting and

631
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 4: spreading COVID. As more data came out, it became clear

632
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 4: that the primary benefit of COVID vaccination is to the

633
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 4: person vaccinated, and so it's more like a motorcycle helmet

634
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 4: law than it is like a school entry requirement to

635
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 4: get vaccinated so we don't have outbreaks in the schools.

636
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 4: That kind of mandate really alienated people and didn't actually

637
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 4: help us to reduce deaths in the longer term.

638
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm sort of surprised to hear you say this. You know,

639
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 1: it strikes me that you were just learning in real

640
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: time and you didn't know what you didn't know, So

641
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: I just wonder how you came to this.

642
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 4: There's a lot of nuance, right the pandemic changed, vaccines

643
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 4: became available, immunity increased, our knowledge of the virus, and

644
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 4: the illness increased. But there's a big difference between requiring

645
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 4: individuals to do something and requiring harmful companies to do something.

646
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 4: So it's one thing to require the tobacco industry to

647
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 4: stop spiking cigarettes with the things that make it more addictive,

648
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 4: or stop food companies from adding a toxin called trans

649
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 4: that that was killing half a million people before. That

650
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 4: kind of requirement protects people, and the only real opposition

651
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 4: is the self interested companies that want to block it.

652
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 4: Whereas even all other industries will benefit because their workers

653
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 4: will be healthier, healthcare costs will be lower, productivity will

654
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 4: be higher. But when it comes to requiring things of individuals,

655
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 4: the key is that we just with time, there's a

656
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 4: lot of nuance, and to understand if we look back

657
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 4: at COVID, I'd divide the pandemic into three phases. In

658
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 4: the first there was no vaccine. In that phase, things

659
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 4: like closures of indoor spaces, masking requirements, distancing really did

660
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 4: make a big difference. In the second phase, when vaccine

661
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 4: became available, the quicker seniors were vaccinated, the better communities

662
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 4: did because the vast majority of deaths were in seniors.

663
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 4: And in the third phase, when the omicron wave hit,

664
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 4: it became impossible to really stop the spread through things

665
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 4: like contact tracing and quarantine and masks were less effective.

666
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 4: It was really going to spread through society. In that phase,

667
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 4: How effective communities were reaching everyone really made a huge difference.

668
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 4: But fundamentally, public health succeeds when it can see the

669
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 4: problems and path forward, telling people together to believe that

670
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 4: it's stoppable, and then systematically organize, simplify, communicate and overcome

671
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 4: the challenges.

672
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: If you were CDC director right now, what would you

673
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: do to restore public face in public health?

674
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 4: I would always be clear about what we know, what

675
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 4: we don't know, how we know it, what we recommended.

676
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: I would start every recommendation based on based on what

677
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: we know. Now here's what we're saying and what we

678
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 4: know now is if you're over sixty five or you

679
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 4: have an immune problem or rather vulnerability, the evidence from

680
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 4: the past few years is very clear that getting a

681
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 4: booster with the COVID vaccine will reduce your chances of

682
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 4: being seriously ill or dying. We're not recommending that anyone

683
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 4: be required to get a COVID booster, but we want

684
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 4: to make sure that everyone can get one. For people

685
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 4: who are younger, you're not likely to die from COVID.

686
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 4: You are likely to have less severe illness if you

687
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 4: get vaccinated, So I think that you should have the

688
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 4: availability of that vaccine.

689
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. How worried are you about having someone who's heading

690
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: this huge public health organization who's sort of antathetical to

691
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: medicine the way we've known it.

692
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 4: I think what you have to do with the current

693
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 4: leadership of HHS is to always look at what they're

694
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 4: doing versus what they're saying. I mean, a lot of

695
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 4: the things they say I agree with, they're really important. Right.

696
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 4: They're saying they want to restore confidence, but they're undermined confidence.

697
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 4: They're saying they want to restore gold standard science, but

698
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 4: they're actually undermining gold standard science. They're saying they want

699
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 4: to eliminate conflicts of interest, but they're actually inserting huge

700
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 4: conflicts of interest. They say they want to address chronic disease. Great,

701
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 4: except they just eliminated the entire tobacco control, cardiovascular health,

702
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 4: and cancer programs at CDC. They say they want to

703
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 4: reduce environmental contamination, but they've rolled back laws and regulations

704
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 4: on forever chemicals like pfas on deadly soot, particulate matter

705
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 4: two point five on mercury and arsenic poisoning. They say

706
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 4: they want to make America healthier, but they're undermining our

707
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 4: protections against measles, influenza, COVID and other threats.

708
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: Do you have a sense for the food safety stuff,

709
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: because that seems like a big deal too.

710
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 4: It is amazing. They are defunding something called food net.

711
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 4: It's a national network that tracks if there are contaminants

712
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 4: in your food, and therefore we won't be able to

713
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 4: track things like campelobacter and listeria, which happened to be

714
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 4: two bacterial infections which are spread by guess what raw

715
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 4: milk and what are they cause? They cause miscarriages, meningitis, weakness,

716
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 4: big problems with people who get infections, and a lot

717
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 4: of minor illnesses of people who misswork, school, economic cost.

718
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 4: The thing that does give me hope is that facts

719
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 4: are stubborn things. Even if you deny them, misuse them,

720
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 4: suppress them, ignore them, try to prevent people from finding

721
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 4: them out, they remain facts. And also people want to

722
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 4: be healthy. A lot of the concerns we're hearing from

723
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 4: the MAHA movement they're valid concerns. A lot of the

724
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 4: concerns about money in medicine, those are valid concerns. And

725
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 4: what I would say to the general public is if

726
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 4: anyone is trying to tell you anything, don't believe anything

727
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 4: they say about.

728
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: Health right And that is a big part of MAHA.

729
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: There's a lot of financial incentives.

730
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 4: Huge, but I think the concerns are real. People don't

731
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 4: know who to trust. One out of three Americans doesn't

732
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 4: have a primary care clinician, no doctor who they can trust,

733
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,919
Speaker 4: they can choose, they can trust, who can interpret what's

734
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 4: happening for them. And one of the things I get

735
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 4: to in the book is thinking about what does public

736
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 4: health tell us about individual health? If you want to

737
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 4: live a longer, healthier life with a lower risk of dementia.

738
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 4: There are proven ways to do that, and they're not

739
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 4: that complicated, and most of them are pretty inexpensive and

740
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 4: can be done either on your own or with the

741
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 4: help of a good primary care doctor, a family physician.

742
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: I mean, are they doing anything to get the food

743
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: dies out to work on that, which seems like an

744
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: important issue.

745
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 4: This is really performative. You look at the switch from

746
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 4: high fruct corn syrup to regular sugar, essentially zero difference

747
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 4: in terms of health. I don't know if it tastes differently.

748
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 4: That's not my area of expertise, but these are things

749
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 4: that sound good. One thing that we know absolutely from

750
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 4: our work in food policy is that anything that's voluntary

751
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 4: with industry will fail. We've tried over and over again.

752
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 4: It just doesn't work. And if you look at the

753
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 4: things that really work on nutrition policy, they're things like

754
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 4: soda taxes very effective. They're like front of pack warnings

755
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 4: that many countries in Latin America have done very effective.

756
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 4: There are things like limiting sodium in processed food or

757
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 4: strengthening healthy food requirements for grocery stores that participate in

758
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 4: the SNAP program. None of those things are even mentioned,

759
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 4: let alone done, And when they talk about things like

760
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 4: getting junk food out of our school meals, they talk

761
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 4: about working to improve it, not about a timeline or

762
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 4: a focus. So I think the diagnosis is not bad,

763
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 4: the intent is not bad, or the stated intent is

764
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 4: not bad, but the actions don't meet the words right.

765
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: And that sounds like a lot of what we know

766
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: in Trump world. If there's one thing if you're listening

767
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,479
Speaker 1: to this, because a lot of the people who listen

768
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: this podcasts are like me, they're just trying to keep

769
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 1: their own family safe, what would you say are sort

770
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: of the most important things if you're listening to this

771
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 1: just to keep your family safe.

772
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 4: Well? For personal health, there are really six keys to

773
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 4: personal health. The first is under emphasized. It's blood pressure,

774
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 4: keeping your blood pressure in control ideally under one twenty

775
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 4: over eighty. The second is healthy cholesterol. Lots more people

776
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 4: should frankly be honest that than are well. I'm on

777
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 4: a stat okay, getting regular physical activity, which doesn't have

778
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,479
Speaker 4: to mean go to the gym. You know, only five

779
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 4: percent of people are ever going to go to the gym,

780
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 4: But if you take four thirty minute risk walks a week,

781
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 4: it's a miracle. Drug you do more good than most

782
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 4: of medicines that you can take. There's also importance of

783
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 4: getting enough sleep seven hours of sleep, avoiding toxins, including tobacco, alcohol,

784
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 4: and some of the newer things that are real concerns. Well,

785
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 4: the big three I think of as endocrine disruptors, nanoparticles,

786
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 4: and microplastics. They are all over our environment, and we

787
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 4: really don't know how severe the harms are. We know

788
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 4: that they can cause hans, but we don't know how

789
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 4: big a problem it is. And there are so many

790
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 4: of them. How do you focus? How do you be

791
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 4: getting them out? We need to have a lot of research,

792
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 4: We need to have a lot of action. We need

793
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 4: to work with industry to understand what's in there, because

794
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 4: it's everywhere and you can't turn our backs on all

795
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 4: of this stuff. But you do want to make sure

796
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 4: that the things that are actually harming people you get

797
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 4: out of the environment so we don't have the next

798
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 4: asbestos or the next trans fat, because those two things

799
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 4: were introduced because they were thought to be more convenient

800
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 4: and healthier. And the last thing, and maybe the most complicated,

801
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 4: is nutrition. Healthy nutrition. On an individual basis, people can

802
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: do a few things. One is have more potassium than sodium.

803
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 4: We actually have a potassium deficiency. It's our most important

804
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 4: dietary deficiency. Most people only consume a half to two

805
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 4: thirds the amount of potassium they need. If you consume

806
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 4: more potassium than sodium, your heart will be much healthier

807
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 4: and you'll have more energy. So reducing sodium increasing potassium

808
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 4: is important. Limiting free sugars and limiting processed meat. All

809
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 4: three of those things are really proven to improve. There

810
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 4: are lots of other things, like increasing fiber that probably

811
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 4: can help your health significantly. And there's another whole set

812
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 4: of things in addition to those six that can reduce

813
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 4: your risk of dementia.

814
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: Diet coke, yes or now that's.

815
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 4: A yellow lage, right, We really don't know. This is

816
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 4: one of the areas where we have to be frank

817
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 4: about what we know and what we don't know. It's

818
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 4: probably not as bad as regular coke. It's definitely worse

819
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 4: than one.

820
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: Oh wait, it's not as bad as regular kroke. But

821
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: what about the artificial sweetener.

822
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 4: It's probably not as bad. I wouldn't say definitely. There's

823
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 4: really just not that much evidence. And one of the

824
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 4: things that we have to do clearly, And what I

825
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 4: outline in the book is be clear about how certain

826
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 4: we are. There's certain things that we're essentially certain of.

827
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 4: There are other things that are likely correct, but we

828
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 4: should be humble because in the future we may find

829
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 4: something different out There are other things that are maybes,

830
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 4: but there's some evidence, and then there are wild guesses

831
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 4: where we really don't know what the reality is. And

832
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 4: when it comes to artificial sweeteners, they're not healthy. They

833
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 4: may be better for you than sugar because they have

834
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 4: fewer calories, and calories are a big problem, but it's

835
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 4: a lot better not to have them to have them.

836
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Tom. I feel pretty

837
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: good that I can go off a die coke.

838
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 4: Now that's a hard question, not simple. You would find

839
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 4: a pretty vigorous debate among the people who really study

840
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 4: this stuff.

841
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: Oh, I believe it. Thank you, Tom, Thank you, thank you.

842
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back.

843
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 4: I would love to.

844
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: No moment, Rick Wilson, Molly dug Fast, what is your

845
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 1: moment of huckery?

846
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 3: My moment of fuckery is Stephen Miller this week whining

847
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 3: like a stuck hog because he got his feefees hurt

848
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 3: to grab a Newsome called him a fascist. He got

849
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 3: very angry about it, right so much, and it's just mean.

850
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: It's so funny because it's like this guy says stuff

851
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: that we're like, you know, he's up there like doing

852
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: his best gurbls and then someone calls him he's a fascist,

853
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: and he's so offended.

854
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 3: You know what if the jack boot fits, wear it, motherfucker.

855
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: Ooh, luckily you're allowed to curse here.

856
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 3: Thank goodness, Thank.

857
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: You for joining us.

858
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: See you soon.

859
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

860
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

861
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

862
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

863
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.