1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,320
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

3
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

6
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:16,239
Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

7
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,279
Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

8
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

9
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:43,840
Speaker 2: let's get to the show everything. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

10
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,600
Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today.

11
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 3: What do we have, Crystal?

12
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 1: Indeed, we do lots of news breaking this morning. In fact,

13
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,479
Speaker 1: we're excited to be joined by congresson Rocanna give us

14
00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 1: an update on what the heck is going on with

15
00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 1: Speaker McCarthy. Maybe maybe Speaker for only one more day.

16
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 1: We will see whether Democrats feel like bailing him. We'll

17
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 1: give you all of the latest on that. We also

18
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,760
Speaker 1: have Sam Bankman freed, the one time golden boy of

19
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,959
Speaker 1: crypto and of Washington is trial starts today, so we'll

20
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,080
Speaker 1: write that down for you. Also, some eyebrow raising revelations

21
00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,840
Speaker 1: from a new Michael Lewis bug about and I will

22
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,480
Speaker 1: see how believable any of that is. We've also got

23
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,959
Speaker 1: some new details coming out of China about their property

24
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: bust and how widespread the implications of that could be.

25
00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 1: Some updates with her card to Ukraine and Nazi revisionism.

26
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,039
Speaker 1: I don't know why we just keep going in this direction, so.

27
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 4: We'll cover that too.

28
00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 1: We've also got some updates for you on that UAW strike,

29
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,840
Speaker 1: including a worker who is not a big fan of

30
00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 1: Jim Kramer and had some things to say.

31
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 2: There's a good stuff in there. I just want to

32
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,120
Speaker 2: say thank you to all the premium subscribers. You guys

33
00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,560
Speaker 2: signed up big time yesterday to help support this new

34
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 2: focus group. So, as we said, we've got a focus

35
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,360
Speaker 2: group next week. It's going to be in the city

36
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 2: of Atlanta with Democratic voters this time, so we're going

37
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 2: to hear all of their unvarnished thoughts about Biden, about

38
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,360
Speaker 2: the primary, whether he should debate.

39
00:01:58,200 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 3: The age, all of that.

40
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 2: If you want to be able to help support our work,

41
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 2: we're really really upping the production value.

42
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 3: We're sending multiple people down there.

43
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 2: We've got our great moderator back, James Johnson, to join

44
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:09,920
Speaker 2: us for this time around with Jail Partners so this

45
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 2: is a really good thing in a project that we're

46
00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,720
Speaker 2: launching over here, and on top of the UAW coverage

47
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 2: and others that we're able to support, that's what you

48
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 2: guys are helping pay for. So Breakingpoints dot Com you

49
00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,800
Speaker 2: can sign up for that. But let's get to the

50
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,959
Speaker 2: actual speakership fight. There's some crazy stuff happening here in Washington.

51
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 2: Matt Gates. There was a will he won't he all

52
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 2: day speculation yesterday. At one point we originally the story

53
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 2: appeared to be he was backing down Cristill. He was like,

54
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 2: maybe I don't have the votes. We'll see, and then

55
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 2: late last night our I guess late for me. Around

56
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:47,400
Speaker 2: seven pm, he goes ahead and he officially introduces the

57
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:52,720
Speaker 2: resolution to vacate this speakership for Kevin McCarthy, also then

58
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,560
Speaker 2: drawing tremendous laughter from the Democrats in the chamber.

59
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

60
00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,320
Speaker 5: Claring the office of Speaker of the House of Representatives

61
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,239
Speaker 5: to be vacant. Resolved that the office of Speaker of

62
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,760
Speaker 5: the House of Representatives is hereby declared to be vacant.

63
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 3: For what purpose does a gentleman from New Jersey seek recognition?

64
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:11,200
Speaker 6: You'll have to wait.

65
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,519
Speaker 2: Okay, so that laughter you could hear as Af Gates

66
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 2: was exiting the chamber. Democrats obviously giddy because it just

67
00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 2: means more drama and chaos on the Republican side, so

68
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,680
Speaker 2: it'll be fun. And Matt Gates actually gave a press

69
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,040
Speaker 2: conference immediately after introducing this resolution.

70
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to what he said.

71
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,880
Speaker 5: If there's a deal made with Democrats, the only deal

72
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,200
Speaker 5: is to make one with McCarthy because I'm not offering

73
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 5: anything and won't offer anything. And by the way, if

74
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 5: the Democrats want to own Kevin McCarthy, they can have it.

75
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 5: Because one thing I'm at peace with is when we

76
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 5: stand here a week from now, I won't own Kevin

77
00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,560
Speaker 5: McCarthy anymore. You won't belong to me. So if the

78
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 5: Democrats want to adopt him, they can adopt it. I mean,

79
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 5: the Speaker did not just fail to remet he ate

80
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,320
Speaker 5: the breach of the agreement with it he made with

81
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,440
Speaker 5: us in January. He accelerated the instances of breach, Like

82
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,840
Speaker 5: after I laid out the breach, he went and violated

83
00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,120
Speaker 5: the seventy two hour rule. After I laid out the breach,

84
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,480
Speaker 5: he violated the one hundred million no Amendment suspension rule.

85
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,520
Speaker 5: So he seems to be reverting to the very unfortunate

86
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 5: muscle memory of Washington, DC that has put our nation

87
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 5: atop a thirty three trillion dollar debt that has led

88
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,599
Speaker 5: to you know, two trillion dollar annual deficits in our

89
00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 5: near future and the rapid global dedollarization of the economy.

90
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,239
Speaker 5: When you look at the bricks system, you know, Brazil, Russia, India, China,

91
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 5: South Africa, they're moving away from the dollar. And just

92
00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 5: in August they added six new countries, including G twenty

93
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,839
Speaker 5: country economies in the Western Hemisphere and golf monarchies. Moreover,

94
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,240
Speaker 5: you've seen you saw US News say that the number

95
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 5: one economic trend of twenty twenty three is d dollarization globally.

96
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 5: This worries me. You all get all worked up that

97
00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,160
Speaker 5: there's going to be some uncomfortable, chaotic moment that I'll

98
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,480
Speaker 5: feel pressure from conservatives or Democrats or whomever. I feel

99
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,039
Speaker 5: the judgment of history, I feel the weight of that.

100
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 5: I worry that when the history books are written about

101
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,039
Speaker 5: this country going down, that my name is going to

102
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:12,800
Speaker 5: be on the board of directors here. And if this

103
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,359
Speaker 5: country's going down, and if we're losing the dollar. I

104
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:16,480
Speaker 5: am going down fighting.

105
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so big words there from Matt Gates. If the

106
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:20,919
Speaker 2: Democrats want to own him, they can have it. But

107
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,000
Speaker 2: then the question is Crystal, will the Democrats.

108
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:24,040
Speaker 3: Vote for him.

109
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 4: I don't think they really want to own him.

110
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 3: Nobody knows right now.

111
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,360
Speaker 2: The interesting thing too is McCarthy as of yesterday, ahead

112
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,960
Speaker 2: of the vote and before it all became official, he

113
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 2: did not even say that he would negotiate with Democrats somehow,

114
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,920
Speaker 2: saying it's like not good for the institution.

115
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,680
Speaker 3: Here's what he had to say. This is his reaction.

116
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,680
Speaker 3: I think this is about the institution.

117
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 7: I think it's true important.

118
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 3: So any time that somebody has an ethics complain and

119
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:50,159
Speaker 3: they can't get.

120
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 2: The way they want about it, they want to roll

121
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 2: up the.

122
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 4: Inside's going part the fight.

123
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,280
Speaker 3: Pea can decide that, and I don't think that's good

124
00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:56,839
Speaker 3: for the House.

125
00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,880
Speaker 8: I believe Nancy Glosser from the last two spets going

126
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 8: and he.

127
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 2: Said McCarthy saying that this isn't good for the House. He said,

128
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,360
Speaker 2: he's not good for the institution to try and bargain

129
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 2: with Democrats. News late last night actually late by the

130
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,159
Speaker 2: way around midnight calling Hakeem Jefferies, who knows what happened

131
00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,360
Speaker 2: on that conversation. So the Democrats have a meeting sometime today,

132
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,240
Speaker 2: a caucus meeting where they're going to try and decide

133
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,280
Speaker 2: what to do. But you know, in terms of the

134
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,720
Speaker 2: whip count, nobody seems to know. Gates appears to have

135
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,200
Speaker 2: somewhere between four and five votes on his side on

136
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,680
Speaker 2: the Republican side against the speakership. They only have a

137
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,039
Speaker 2: three vote margin, so that appears to be enough to

138
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 2: deny McCarthy the speakership. But that also means Crystal, they

139
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,880
Speaker 2: only need four to five Democratic votes in order.

140
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 3: To keep Kevin McCarthy.

141
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 2: I know that there are people, you know, the whole

142
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,960
Speaker 2: problem Solvers Caucus, the Blue Dog Caucus, all those people

143
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,360
Speaker 2: very likely candidates. However, the leader of the Blue Dog

144
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 2: Caucus yesterday was asked, would you help bail out Kevin

145
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,360
Speaker 2: McCarthy said, why would I bail out somebody who's never

146
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,039
Speaker 2: asked me anything? So if he is to survive, a

147
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,280
Speaker 2: deal has to be made of some kind. We don't

148
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 2: know what the contours have said deal would be. We

149
00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:00,760
Speaker 2: don't know exactly what it was look like. I do

150
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,000
Speaker 2: think I mean, I'm curious what you think it appeared.

151
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,360
Speaker 2: It would appear to be the worst headline on earth

152
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,520
Speaker 2: for Kevin McCarthy to say Kevin McCarthy needs Democratic votes

153
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,720
Speaker 2: in order to survive this vote. There also there is

154
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 2: a prospect of you know, people say things all the time.

155
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,640
Speaker 2: Right now, it's Gates and like four or five others,

156
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,760
Speaker 2: and when I say or because some people are maybe's

157
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 2: all he needs is what two three of those people?

158
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 3: Cut a deal with those and be like, all right,

159
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:23,840
Speaker 3: which committees do you want?

160
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 4: Right now?

161
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 2: Tell me what you want, guys, And those two or

162
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 2: three who are right on the fence, they cut a deal,

163
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 2: and then Gates and one other person votes against him

164
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 2: against the speakers if he survives, and then Gates actually

165
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 2: looks like a fool even though they get no Democratic votes.

166
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 2: All of these are prospects right now, of which we

167
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 2: don't know. It is going to be dizzey in forty

168
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 2: eight hours because the vote has to occur within four

169
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,360
Speaker 2: y eight hours according to House parliamentary rules.

170
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,000
Speaker 1: So far, it seems that Democrats are very disinclined to

171
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,440
Speaker 1: see Kevin McCarthy's asks. I don't think he has done

172
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 1: a lot to build, you know, positive working relationships. That

173
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,120
Speaker 1: saw that we played, that sound we played of him

174
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 1: talking about all the institution whatever. I think there was

175
00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,040
Speaker 1: a lot of eye rolling from the Timocratic caucus because

176
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 1: they feel like, you know, oh, you care so much

177
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 1: about the institution, Sure, buddy. I think one thing that

178
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,280
Speaker 1: would definitely be important to Democrats is you got to

179
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,960
Speaker 1: end this impeachment inquiry and these other sort of things

180
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 1: that you've given to the right wing of your caucus

181
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,560
Speaker 1: and I don't. And that's an untenable position for him

182
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,760
Speaker 1: because remember, it's not just about him keeping the bulk

183
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 1: of his caucus behind him, but this guy is the

184
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,720
Speaker 1: chief fundraiser for the Republican Party as well. So how's

185
00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 1: he going to go out and make the case to

186
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 1: Republican donors about like, oh, you got to back me

187
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,079
Speaker 1: and you got to back the Republican Party If he's

188
00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,360
Speaker 1: in some sort of a weird coalition government with Democrats, right,

189
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,360
Speaker 1: and then you you know, not to mention the eyre

190
00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,280
Speaker 1: of the base and the grassroots and what's Trump.

191
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 4: Going to say about all of this. I mean, it's

192
00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:46,400
Speaker 4: just it's.

193
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,320
Speaker 1: A pretty impossible situation for Kevin McCarthy at the moment,

194
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,520
Speaker 1: and I do think Democrats are happy to let him twist.

195
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 4: In the wind. You mentioned you know one person who.

196
00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 1: Was like with the problem solver's caucus, who was like,

197
00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,920
Speaker 1: he's never asked me for anything, why would I help it.

198
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,280
Speaker 1: I also noted Jerry Connelly, who's kind of a very

199
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 1: established man. Wouldn't necessarily call him like a moderate in

200
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,439
Speaker 1: that way, but he's kind of more towards the center

201
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 1: of the caucus. He says that Democrats should let McCarthy fall.

202
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,559
Speaker 1: I will not enable the speakership. I'm a hard No.

203
00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 1: Democrats should think long and hard about this. There's absolutely

204
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 1: no upside to preserving Kevin McCarthy in the speakership.

205
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,479
Speaker 4: It's an unstable speakership.

206
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,200
Speaker 1: I saw other Democrats who were saying, listen, we're going

207
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,199
Speaker 1: to do whatever leadership tells us to do, and we're

208
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,559
Speaker 1: going to unify behind them.

209
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:28,720
Speaker 4: Now, that could all fall apart.

210
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,079
Speaker 1: Perhaps McCarthy gives them something that's worth them backing him

211
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,320
Speaker 1: and keeping him in the speakership. But at the moment,

212
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, not knowing the contents of that conversation from

213
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 1: last night, doesn't seem like Democrats are inclined to bail

214
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,200
Speaker 1: him out, and this vote could come as soon as today.

215
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 4: By the way, yes, he can delay it up to

216
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:46,080
Speaker 4: two days.

217
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,160
Speaker 1: That's kind of the window and the time limit that

218
00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,200
Speaker 1: he has, so it will be at the latest two

219
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,080
Speaker 1: days from now, but there's also rumblings that it could

220
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 1: very well be today as early as noon, So this

221
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,480
Speaker 1: could all be coming down really quickly. In terms of

222
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,160
Speaker 1: the whipcount for McCarthy, you're already alluding to this sacer.

223
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,320
Speaker 4: This is from punch Bowl News.

224
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,600
Speaker 1: It's like DC Insider Republication, and they've already got four

225
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,720
Speaker 1: on the record is saying they want to dump McCarthy.

226
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: They've got another three who are inclined in that direction,

227
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 1: and then you've got another group that's sort of publicly undecided,

228
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:24,360
Speaker 1: Mike Cloud, Andy Ogeles, Keith Self, Ken Buck, and Ralph Norman.

229
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,160
Speaker 1: So that's another five who are like on the fence.

230
00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,319
Speaker 1: And again he can only lose four. It's three vote margin.

231
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,240
Speaker 1: He can only lose four, and you've already got four

232
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:34,920
Speaker 1: on the record saying they want to dump them. So

233
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,320
Speaker 1: maybe there's something that he can offer these individuals. Maybe

234
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,480
Speaker 1: there's something they really want that they can bargain for,

235
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,439
Speaker 1: because he only needs to move a couple based on

236
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,680
Speaker 1: where the whipcount is today. But this is I genuinely

237
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,680
Speaker 1: don't know how this ends up getting resolved, and it

238
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 1: will get resolved in some fashion. I just have no

239
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,760
Speaker 1: idea how it's all going to shake out exactly.

240
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,280
Speaker 2: And that's yeah, we want to be transparent. Nobody knows

241
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,760
Speaker 2: right now. It's a complete chaos factor. The other thing

242
00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,599
Speaker 2: is one of the reasons I'm inclined to believe that

243
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,480
Speaker 2: McCarthy will survive is levels.

244
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 3: Would replace him.

245
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,200
Speaker 4: Well, that's always been the question, right.

246
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 3: The thing is, when Bayner left Ryan Paul, Ryan never

247
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 3: wanted to be speaker.

248
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 2: Allegedly, I don't know if that's true, but you know,

249
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,160
Speaker 2: all the reporting and all that stuff at the time

250
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 2: was that he didn't want to be speaker, but he

251
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,760
Speaker 2: had enough credibility because he's a former vice presidential nominee.

252
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,320
Speaker 2: He was like good on camera by their standards, and

253
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,600
Speaker 2: he was somebody who could play ball with the Freedom

254
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 2: Caucus and he could still get the centrist Republicans together.

255
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,679
Speaker 2: So even though he hated the job, you know, people

256
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,839
Speaker 2: were willing to effectively draft him. There's no such figure.

257
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,320
Speaker 2: The only figure would be Steve Scalise. But you know,

258
00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,320
Speaker 2: I look, Steve Scalise, he's had a tough go of things,

259
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,040
Speaker 2: obviously survived that shooting a couple of years ago, and

260
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 2: now he's got you know, I think he believed he

261
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 2: has cancers.

262
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:38,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, the horrible illness.

263
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,400
Speaker 2: I mean, he's yeah, he's undergoing treatment. He's not in

264
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 2: a position where he can be speaker. You know, he's

265
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,680
Speaker 2: got he's got health problems of his own. He's he's

266
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,839
Speaker 2: the only other person who really has that level of credibility.

267
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 2: I think in the House they even tried to do

268
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,200
Speaker 2: a whole draft Scalise thing before it was revealed that

269
00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:54,880
Speaker 2: he had his illness, and he was like, look, I

270
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,000
Speaker 2: don't want the job. And it appears, especially now, like

271
00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,920
Speaker 2: there's no way he could be in the running.

272
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:00,680
Speaker 3: There's simply no other figure.

273
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's possible Jim Jordan could be

274
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,719
Speaker 2: someone like that, but there's also no indication that Jim

275
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,839
Speaker 2: Jordan wants the job. You know, last time, I believe

276
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,360
Speaker 2: one or two people made to vote for him, or

277
00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,600
Speaker 2: there was some sort of element to try and you know,

278
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,439
Speaker 2: cast thirteen fourteen votes or whatever in his direction. During

279
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,040
Speaker 2: the big speakership fight, but there's no indication that this

280
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,240
Speaker 2: is something that he even desires. McCarthy really is, you know,

281
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 2: that candidate, because he's just been around for a long time.

282
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,400
Speaker 2: He's been playing the game. But unfortunately for him, he

283
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,439
Speaker 2: just doesn't have a lot of the votes. And then

284
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,200
Speaker 2: of course the democratic chaos element of are they going

285
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,920
Speaker 2: to back McCarthy. One thing that I actually think could

286
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 2: play a huge role in this is Ukraine. Let's go

287
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,199
Speaker 2: and put this up there on the screen. Matt Gates

288
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,840
Speaker 2: has been accusing Kevin McCarthy of making a side deal

289
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 2: on Ukraine funding with the White House and with the Democrats.

290
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,720
Speaker 2: We don't yet know if that is true. McCarthy denies

291
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,240
Speaker 2: that it's true. But right now GOP senators and what

292
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,440
Speaker 2: I think a lot of Democrats are thinking is, well,

293
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 2: maybe we will vote for him, but you have to

294
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,560
Speaker 2: put a hundred billion dollars or something like that on

295
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 2: the floor of the House of Representatives for Ukraine, which

296
00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,440
Speaker 2: would probably pass as of today, although I'm still not sure.

297
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 2: I guess you don't need that many Republican votes if

298
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,319
Speaker 2: you get all the Democrats to vote for it, and

299
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,000
Speaker 2: then there's obviously no question that all the GOP senators

300
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,640
Speaker 2: would vote for it. They probably have more than eighty

301
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,920
Speaker 2: votes or something like that in the House. So again

302
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,640
Speaker 2: it's very possible that that's what they do. That could

303
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,760
Speaker 2: be some sort of deal that is struck. They also

304
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 2: may crystal strike deals about procedure in the future, about

305
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 2: their ability to bring stuff to the floor without the

306
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 2: ascension of the speaker. But it does remind me of

307
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,319
Speaker 2: something I said I think at the time, you know,

308
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 2: months and months ago, when this was all happening, I

309
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,240
Speaker 2: was like, man, if I'm Kevin McCarthy, like, why do

310
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,600
Speaker 2: you even want this? Kind of like you are the

311
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,240
Speaker 2: biggest speaker in over a century. It has literally been

312
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,520
Speaker 2: over a century since we saw a since we saw

313
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,520
Speaker 2: not only the motion to VK but the multiple ballots

314
00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 2: to be able to elect someone. Yeah, I believe it

315
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,880
Speaker 2: was more than any times. It's like the eighteen hundreds. Also,

316
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 2: one of the things on the motion of VAK nobody

317
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,560
Speaker 2: knows how the motion of a kate is supposed to work,

318
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,640
Speaker 2: because the last time it was done was like nineteen

319
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,520
Speaker 2: oh nine, and there's no parliamentary procedure. There's this entire

320
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,000
Speaker 2: thing called the Congressional Research Service where they're supposed to

321
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 2: provide like research and be like, here's how it works.

322
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 2: Whenever X and Y happens, usually it's easy. On this one,

323
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 2: they had nothing. They're like, we don't know. They were

324
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,320
Speaker 2: totally on charted territory. Wow, how that is supposed to

325
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,920
Speaker 2: go down? So that introduces even more chaos into the system.

326
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 2: We truly are in uncharted waters. I gotta be honest

327
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 2: in a way, it's fun, you know, it's fun to

328
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 2: be able to cover these things, and it's just it's

329
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:23,880
Speaker 2: totally uncertain.

330
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 3: It's a lot like the cr We just have no clue.

331
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,720
Speaker 2: We don't know who is going to be third in

332
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,280
Speaker 2: line for the presidency of the United States.

333
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, in two days from now.

334
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:33,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

335
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 1: I mean one thing I will say that I think

336
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 1: came out in the initial McCarthy's initial fight to become

337
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,960
Speaker 1: speaker is he is a survivor and he is willing

338
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: to endure effectively endless humiliation in service of his goals.

339
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,240
Speaker 1: And you know what, like, if you are willing to

340
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 1: just get embarrassed and be shamed and capitulate and bend

341
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 1: to the whims of whoever is demanding whatever, that can

342
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 1: be a useful trait in terms of holding on to

343
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,479
Speaker 1: whatever scrap of power Speaker of the House even represents

344
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,560
Speaker 1: at this point.

345
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 4: So I wouldn't bet against him.

346
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 1: As you said, Sagara, the glaring question has always been okay,

347
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 1: but if it's not him, who, And I saw Gates

348
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 1: got asked about this yesterday and he still has he

349
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,840
Speaker 1: has no answer, and he's like, yeah, well, you know,

350
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,480
Speaker 1: we'll figure that out basically down the road. It was like,

351
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 1: you can't beat someone with nothing, so you know, I

352
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: think we'll probably It may be kind of reminiscent of

353
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,000
Speaker 1: the speaker fight, where there's a bunch of ballots, there's

354
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of these motions of ak they keep going

355
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 1: at it, they keep going at it until he's able

356
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 1: to give away even more of the store to the

357
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,520
Speaker 1: people who are dead set against him. The other thing

358
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 1: that I keep thinking about, too, is part of what

359
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 1: has made this very complicated to understand and part of

360
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: what has further exacerbated the rift, is the contours of

361
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 1: that initial deal to bring him into the speakership were

362
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 1: never made public. That's right, So it's always been this

363
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 1: sort of like he said, he said, about what was

364
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,760
Speaker 1: actually agreed to and whether or not McCarthy is in

365
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,840
Speaker 1: violation of this secret deal or not, Like none of

366
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 1: us has any way to judge, and I don't even

367
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 1: think the full Republican Caucus has any way to judge

368
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,120
Speaker 1: what was actually agreed to in that deal. So Gates

369
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 1: claims he's in violation.

370
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:16,000
Speaker 4: There may be.

371
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,200
Speaker 1: Pieces where it's more clear cut, where it was more public,

372
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 1: but overall the fact that this was so secretive has

373
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,560
Speaker 1: made it so that you really can't assess whether he

374
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 1: has held up his end of the bargain or not.

375
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 2: Look, we have no clue. Just here's the takeaway. Nobody

376
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 2: knows what the hell is going on.

377
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 3: We'll be tracking in it's interesting. Counterpoints will be on tomorrow.

378
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:33,880
Speaker 2: And obviously we'll be here back on Thursday, so maybe

379
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,640
Speaker 2: maybe we'll know, maybe we'll be able to do that.

380
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 3: I need to post this.

381
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 2: One early and we'll get it out to everybody just

382
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 2: because things are moving quickly. We've got Congressman real conin

383
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,040
Speaker 2: coming into the studio very soon. We'll ask him his

384
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,400
Speaker 2: reaction as well. I believe it'll be before the Democratic meeting,

385
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 2: so I'm very curious to hear what he has to say.

386
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, And congressman kinda randomly has ended up

387
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 1: reallyd So being from California, yeah, that's right, and being

388
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 1: in the house means that, you know, he's at the

389
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 1: center of the Newsome Feinstein stuff. But he is also

390
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,040
Speaker 1: the center of what's going on with Kevin McCarthy, so

391
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 1: to be interesting to hear his perspective over whether he

392
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,919
Speaker 1: and his colleagues are inclined to bail Kevin McCarthy out.

393
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,600
Speaker 1: All right, but there is another really big thing that

394
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 1: is happening starting today, which is the trial of Sam

395
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 1: Bankman Freed, one time crypto golden Boy and darling.

396
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 4: Of Washington, now indicted.

397
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,439
Speaker 1: For many counts of fraud for basically allegedly stealing a

398
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,679
Speaker 1: bunch of customer funds and using them inappropriately, including to

399
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,480
Speaker 1: buy his own giant mansion. He also was implicated all

400
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,880
Speaker 1: sorts of like straw donations and chicanery here in Washington

401
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 1: as well. So with this trial starting today, Michael Lewis,

402
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 1: who was following Sam Bankman Freed around for.

403
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 4: A new biography.

404
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 1: His book is I think not coincidentally coming out at

405
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,400
Speaker 1: the very same time. He gave a sixty minutes interview

406
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 1: and revealed something that is very interesting. Not sure if

407
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:00,919
Speaker 1: I buy it or or not, but let's take a

408
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,200
Speaker 1: listen to what he had to say.

409
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,760
Speaker 6: One of the most shocking passages in this book, I thought,

410
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 6: came with this revelation that Sam had looked into paying

411
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 6: Donald Trump not to run.

412
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,640
Speaker 8: That only shocks you if you don't know Sam. Sam's thing,

413
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 8: we could pay Donald Trump.

414
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 2: Not to run for president?

415
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,120
Speaker 3: Like, how much would it take?

416
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 6: Did he get an answer?

417
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:21,119
Speaker 8: So he did get an answer.

418
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:21,919
Speaker 3: He was floated.

419
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 8: There was a number that was kicking around, and number

420
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,600
Speaker 8: was kicking around when I was talking to Sam about

421
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,800
Speaker 8: this was five billion dollars. Sam was not sure that

422
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 8: number came directly from.

423
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:29,680
Speaker 4: Trump a way.

424
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,480
Speaker 6: So Sam's looking into paying Trump not to run and

425
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 6: he actually get didn't men come from Trump himself?

426
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 3: But he actually got a price.

427
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,959
Speaker 8: He got one answer. Yes, The question Sam had was

428
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,800
Speaker 8: not just his five billion dollars enough to pay Trump

429
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,399
Speaker 8: not to run, but was it legal?

430
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 6: Well, why didn't this happen? Why didn't you fall through?

431
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,959
Speaker 8: Well they were still having these conversations when FTX blew up,

432
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 8: So why didn't happen?

433
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 3: He didn't have five million dollars anymore?

434
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 4: What do you make of that? Saga, are you buying it?

435
00:18:59,560 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 3: I don't know.

436
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 2: I mean maybe somewhere someone around Trump said something. I mean,

437
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 2: I think it's probably worth explaining to everybody what effective

438
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,679
Speaker 2: altruism is. You know, it's something that people who are

439
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 2: online and like nerds, people are in Silicon Valley will know.

440
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,640
Speaker 2: It's effectively the principle, correct me if I'm wrong, where

441
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 2: you become rich as possible and a mass as much

442
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 2: wealth so that you can strategically deploy your assets in

443
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 2: the best way to achieve the most optimal social outcome.

444
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: So the thing is with Sam is he you know,

445
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 2: ostensibly was using his wealth to fund like pandemic preparedness,

446
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 2: to fund congressman who would align with his agenda. They

447
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 2: also coincidentally did not believe in cryptoregulation. Shocking.

448
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,399
Speaker 3: It's not always not effectible, it's not.

449
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,479
Speaker 2: The altruistic part is a little bit secondary sometimes, but

450
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 2: the overall point was in that scenario, that is the

451
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 2: effect of altruist dream. It's like, okay, well, I'm you know,

452
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,000
Speaker 2: worth at what was he worth at one point, like

453
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 2: forty fifty billion something out there? He's like, okay, well,

454
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 2: if I could just take you know, six percent of

455
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 2: my net worth then achieve a massive outcome, like just

456
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 2: paying Trump not to run. That would be the ultimate

457
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 2: effective altruist gamble. This is something that Sam Altman and

458
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 2: a lot of these other guys believe in. I'm personally

459
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 2: very dubious of the entire ideology, especially because it's all

460
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 2: like privatized and doesn't have anything to do with democracy.

461
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,679
Speaker 2: But that's a whole other conversation. But I don't know.

462
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 2: I mean, it definitely seems like something he would think,

463
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 2: like that he would think to try.

464
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, in terms of like whether it would work.

465
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 4: There was an opening there or not, I.

466
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 3: Don't I personally don't think so.

467
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems to me like Michael lewis a little

468
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 1: too credulous in some of these exchanges. You know, the

469
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 1: book is just coming out I think today, and there's

470
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: an excert of it in the Washington Post that I

471
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 1: read that. You know, it kind of plays into these

472
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: stereotypes that were created about Sam being like the boy wonder,

473
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 1: the boy genius. It goes through this whole narrative Abattoh,

474
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,959
Speaker 1: he's on the Zoom call with Anna Win tour, and

475
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: he's also doing you know, eight other different things at

476
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,400
Speaker 1: the same time, and he's playing video games and whatever,

477
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: and so I don't know. I, like you said, Zager,

478
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: I see him having this idea. Do I actually think

479
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: that Trump would really be open to Not really, because

480
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: the other problem for Trump, I mean, part of what

481
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 1: Trump needs out of a White House run at this

482
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: point is also to get out of his legal trouble. Yes,

483
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 1: and no amount of five billion dollars or ten billion

484
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: dollars or eighty billion.

485
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 4: Dollars is going to solve that problem for him.

486
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: The only thing that could even partially solve that problem

487
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 1: for him is if he ends up back in the

488
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: White House. So I'm skeptical that he really you know,

489
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: that there was a real number, that there was a

490
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 1: real possibility that this would come to pass. And also

491
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 1: on the effective altruism piece, I did a whole thing

492
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 1: on effective altruism that you guys can go back and

493
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: watch that expresses my concerns. One of them you gestured at, Zager,

494
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: which is the fact that you know, oh, these brilliant

495
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: billionaire oligarchs are going to save us and understand precisely

496
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: what the biggest risk to society are. It also can

497
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: end up really ethically troubling because they tend to put

498
00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: a higher premium on things that are like long terms

499
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: civilizational risks and allows them to hand wave away a

500
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: lot of current present day manifests suffering.

501
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 4: Right, So anyway, I've got.

502
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: Issues with that, and I've also always had a lot

503
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: of question marks about whether Sam really bought into this

504
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 1: philosophy even or whether it was just part of his

505
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: brand and part of his cover. And I think that's

506
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: the other thing you have to consider both when, you know,

507
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: as we watch this trial starting today and watch all

508
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,479
Speaker 1: of that unfolding, and also consider these, you know, excerpts

509
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 1: from Michael Lewis's book, which I do intend to read.

510
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 4: I want to read the whole thing.

511
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 3: I think I'll read.

512
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: But he also is clearly a liar, I mean, caught

513
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,479
Speaker 1: in numerous brazen lies.

514
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 4: Because in this.

515
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: Again, you know, maybe it can come back to the

516
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: fact of altruism thing too, if he really thinks, like, oh,

517
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 1: if I lie, it's going to be better for civilization

518
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: a thousand years from now or whatever, like those are

519
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: the sort of justifications that he could have been making

520
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: for some of his just like blatantly illegal, immoral, wildly

521
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: unethical lies, stealing manipulation, etc. So with all that being said,

522
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: we've got the trial starting today. Jury selection starts today.

523
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 1: Put this up on the screen from the Wall Street Journal.

524
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 1: Their headline is the star witness at Sam Bankman Freed's

525
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: trial is his top deputy and ex girlfriend, Caroline Ellison's

526
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: testimony has the potential to.

527
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 4: Be particularly personal and raw.

528
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 1: She has pleaded guilty to seven criminal accounts, and she's

529
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: also agreed to cooperate with the government. Prosecutors have said

530
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: that she not only was involved in criminal activity ranging

531
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: from bribery in China to defrauding FTX customers of billions

532
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: of dollars, but also acted at Bankman Freed's direction. Her

533
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: lawyer declined to comment. Bankman Freed himself has pleaded not guilty.

534
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: His lawyers say prosecutors have not adequately established that Ellison

535
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: acted at his direction. His spokesman declined to comment.

536
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 4: And just if you.

537
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: Guys have forgotten some of the details here, there were

538
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: two entities, the girlfriend Caroline Allison was in charge of

539
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: one of them, and then the actual crypto exchange where

540
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: people are supposed to be just like parking their funds

541
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: and then doing with them whatever they they want. Not

542
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: what Sam Bankman Free One's what they want FTX. Sam

543
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: was in charge of that one. And so the allegation,

544
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 1: which I think is pretty clear at this point, is

545
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: that they were using funds from customer accounts, basically stealing

546
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 1: that money to fund bets over on the Caroline Ellison

547
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: run piece of this, and that there was whole secret.

548
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 4: Code, etc.

549
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: That was going on in order to try to as

550
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: crypto went down and they were suffering losses, they were

551
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: trying to use customer funds to fill that whole. Obviously

552
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: that's theft, Obviously that's illegal, those allegations, and so the

553
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 1: idea here is that Caroline, having been both the girlfriend

554
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: living with Sam Bankman Freed being in charge of this

555
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: other entity, will be the best position to say exactly

556
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: what was going on. I thought they had a good

557
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: quote here Cyber. They said, at bottom, every fraud case

558
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: is just a human drama, and Caroline is the likely

559
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: vehicle for getting a lot.

560
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 4: Of that out.

561
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's just all about accounting.

562
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 2: It's like, we don't have the money over here, we

563
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: need to be able to place bets, so we're going

564
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: to take the money from over here.

565
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 3: Who authorized that transaction? Who made the order.

566
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: Now, given the multiple guilty please by FTX executives, I.

567
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 3: Don't think it's that complicated.

568
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: Also, given the emails and immense documentary record and as

569
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: well as interviews and on the record statements by Sam

570
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: Bankman Freed and multiple interviews, now, I also don't think

571
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 2: it's that complicated. He doesn't really have a particularly good

572
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: explanation for all of for how all of this went down.

573
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: It revealed not only the unregulated nature of this like

574
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: international crypto exchange, it also led to the collapse of

575
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: multiple other companies that were embroiled with FTX, places like Binance,

576
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: places like Blockfi, where I personally lost money as I

577
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: did my whole thing about at that time. My problem,

578
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: I think with all of this is that it wasn't

579
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: even sophisticated, Like the guy who eventually took over FTX

580
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: in the bankruptcy was like, look I did Enron. Enron

581
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 2: was shell corporations, inflation of stock, a true like financial

582
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: scheme that required a lot of complex understanding. This is

583
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 2: just straight up fraud, like a Ponzi scheme of you

584
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: put money in, I take it out, and then the

585
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: more that comes in as long as it's all backed

586
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: by some fake asset.

587
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: It's all just going to keep going.

588
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: And then the moment one thing got called out, it's

589
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: like a rug pull from the entire company and half

590
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 2: of the industry just collapses overnight.

591
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like stunning.

592
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 4: It really is.

593
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: It's so hard to put yourself into their heads, like

594
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: what were you thinking? And there was this very wild

595
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: West gold Rush kind of mentality. He was hiring people,

596
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: including Caroline. I mean she she had no idea what

597
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: she was doing.

598
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 4: She had no.

599
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: Background in, you know, making these complex trades, and she

600
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: finds herself the head of this multi billion dollar organization.

601
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: In the Michael Lewis excerpt that I referred to before

602
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: he interviews this other woman who ends up being head

603
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: of PR and pandle all of the scheduling and incoming

604
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: and whatever for Sam, which ended up being immense who

605
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: also had zero experience and just sort of like happened

606
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: into this position. They're all living together. There's no corporate controls.

607
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: I saw somewhere. Sam couldn't even name the people who

608
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: were supposedly on their board because it all just came

609
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: back to him and his whims, whatever he felt like

610
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: doing and whatever he could justify to himself, feeling like

611
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: there was never going to be any scrutiny, like there

612
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: was never going to be like any accountability, Like he

613
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: was such a genius that he'd be able to keep

614
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,239
Speaker 1: all of these thousands of balls in the air and

615
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: never get caught for the wildly illegal theft and criminal

616
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: behavior that he was engaged in. So, you know, I

617
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: think it's going to be part of why this trial

618
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: is important too, is because SBF and FTX, like they

619
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: were the biggest, they were the wildest in terms of

620
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: the allegations here. But this was an industry that is

621
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: nascent and is in a lot of ways unregulated, where

622
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: a lot of times the regulators and certainly the politicians

623
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: like can't really wrap their head around it and haven't

624
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: really figured out how to deal with it. There was

625
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: a lot of intentional skirting and flouting of international regulations

626
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: at Finance in particular, they were intentionally not headquartered anywhere

627
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: to try to keep themselves from being subject to any jurisdiction.

628
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: So I think it also pulls back the curtain on

629
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: not just SBF and what was going on at FTX,

630
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: but this particular moment in Cryptoi history, when things seemed

631
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: like they were, you know, flying high, and it was

632
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: just going to be up and up and up forever.

633
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: And underneath the breaface, there were a lot of unscrupulous actors.

634
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: There was a lot of fraud. There was a lot

635
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: of just like fly by night, seat to your pants

636
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: type of activity. So it's going to be it's gonna

637
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: be fascinating to watch it unfold. To watch this guy

638
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: who was once a darling in this town in particular,

639
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: but in the news media they loved him, they loved

640
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: the idea of this boyish, wonder genius, wonder kind, etc.

641
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: And to watch, you know, how he attempts to defend

642
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: himself from allegations that seem wildly indefensible.

643
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: One thing I'm really happy about this case going to

644
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: trial and no plead is I want all this stuff

645
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: to come out.

646
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: I want to open court.

647
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: I want the cameras, want the files. I especially want

648
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 2: the federal election charges to come to light about who

649
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: is donating to the schemes. Want people to take the

650
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: stand under oath. Too many times these things get wrapped

651
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 2: up with a little bow, and he never actually know

652
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: anything about what was going on deep below the surface.

653
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: So I hope and pray that nobody takes a deal.

654
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 2: It's very possible though, that it could happen. He's facing

655
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 2: a long time in prison and it's not just him,

656
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: and it broils as a whole family. There are multiple

657
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: crazy things that have come out in discovery, like his

658
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: father being like, if you don't give me two million dollars,

659
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to see your mother on this chain. I'm like,

660
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: and this is you know. I actually have friends back

661
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 2: who have taken this man's class at Stanford and they're like,

662
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: he's one of the world's renowned tax lawyers, Like is

663
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 2: one of the most respected people in his field. And

664
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: they're like, I don't recognize this person.

665
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: I think that to me.

666
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: Really, what comes away is I think this amount of

667
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: wealth is a poison. It's just poisons your head. Things

668
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 2: start to feel crazy because at a certain point he

669
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: could manifest things of anything he wanted. Bought himself forty

670
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: million dollar apartment, he bought himself multiple senators and congressman.

671
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: He's buying himself dinner with the very days and diet

672
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: he's supposed to have dinner with Mitch McConnell. It's like these, yeah,

673
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: the life all just becomes so surreal that it becomes reality.

674
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: And I think unfortunately it poisoned every single person who

675
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: is involved in this. And that's what every great f

676
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: odd story is. Like they said, it's just a human story. Yeah,

677
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:36,239
Speaker 2: that's all it is.

678
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean.

679
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: And to go back to the Trump thing where we started,

680
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: I can imagine him in that state, like fantasizing about

681
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: spending billions to save democracy and get Trump out of

682
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: the presidential race, etc. That doesn't seem far fetched that

683
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: Trump was like really legitimately entertaining it and it off

684
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: told him a number or whatever. That piece I find

685
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: far fetched, But you know, on the human piece of it,

686
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: maybe it's a small detail, but just to me, it

687
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: shows you what a pos this dude is. Caroline, who

688
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: was his girlfriend and you know, his partner in business

689
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: and they're living together and whatever. When Sam is under

690
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: fire and after she is now cooperating with the government,

691
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: he leaked all of her personal journals, remember, to journalists,

692
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: to try to make himself look better.

693
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 4: And he's such an.

694
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: Idiot in this certain way that he didn't realize that

695
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: actually the contents of those journals and the very fact

696
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: that he would be so slimy and underhanded as to

697
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: do that to a person.

698
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 4: It actually really.

699
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: Backfired in terms of people's perception of him, and it's

700
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: what ended up landing him. He was under you know

701
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: what do they call it supervised whatever, how supervision, he

702
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: was able to stay at his parents' mansion while he

703
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: was awaiting trial, and once that happened, the Gudger's like, no,

704
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: your ass is going to do so. Sometimes the smartest

705
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: people can also be the absolute dumbest, and I think

706
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: you have seen that with Zanbangman Free absolutely.

707
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: At the same time, there's some really interesting stuff going

708
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: on right now in China. A friend of the show,

709
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: Peter Zihan, had an interesting update about his prediction of

710
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: a come and collapse.

711
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 3: Here's what he had to say.

712
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 9: The problem with this pattern and this type of growth

713
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 9: is if you do it enough, you start to distort

714
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 9: the economy and you absorb more and more capital, and

715
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 9: more and more labor, and more and more resources, and

716
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 9: eventually you get to the point where there's diminishing returns

717
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 9: because you only need so many roads, you only need

718
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 9: so many factories. So first building bridges to nowhere. The

719
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 9: Chinese absolutely reached that level probably back in the early

720
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 9: twenty tens, and most of the construction we've seen across

721
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 9: China is of questionable economic use, and the debt has

722
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 9: been building up. Corporate debt has basically doubled since twenty ten.

723
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 9: They tried to follow the Korean model as well, but

724
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 9: what they discovered is that their workforce was already fairly unproductive.

725
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 9: And while overall productivity for the Chinese labor forces have

726
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 9: gone up by fifty to one hundred percent in the

727
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 9: last ten to fifteen years, the debt load has gone

728
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 9: up by a factor of five. So from a cost

729
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 9: benefit point of view, Chinese labor has actually decreased in

730
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 9: terms of its overall productivity. Capital flight is strictly regulated,

731
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 9: in many cases forbidden, and every time that the people

732
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 9: find a new way to get money out, the Chinese

733
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 9: government changes the law and so it all gets bottled

734
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 9: up at home. Now, for the Chinese development model, this

735
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 9: has proven successful at keeping the Chinese citizens' money as

736
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 9: part of the process that then funds all of that investment.

737
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 9: This is going to hit them from every possible angle

738
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 9: when it breaks, and it's going to do so by

739
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 9: ripping the heart out of public support for the entire

740
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 9: system and the CCP and the government particular.

741
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: So to backup what Peter is saying, that we can

742
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen from the Wall

743
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: Street Journal, really interesting analysis about a forthcoming property bubble.

744
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: So what they write there is basically, does China's property

745
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: bust make a financial crisis inevitable? And the chart that

746
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: you can see is the total amount of real estate

747
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: in the Chinese market, the individual residential mortgages and then

748
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: overall development loans. Really, what they say is that a

749
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 2: forthcoming property bust there is almost certain at this point

750
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 2: because you have seen massive amounts of vacancy, the inability

751
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: in order to deliver property on time, and then the

752
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 2: tie ins of massive shadow banks like trust firms, which

753
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 2: are increasingly trying to shed property exposure.

754
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 3: Quote.

755
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: Total loans to property developers and home buyers peaked at

756
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: nearly thirty percent in twenty nineteen. They've fall into twenty

757
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: three percent by mid twenty twenty three. But the biggest

758
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 2: chunk individual home mortgages, while they may be relatively safe

759
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: for now, the down payments and all of that are

760
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: moving towards a direction of a huge amount of indirect

761
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 2: exposure for the entire Chinese economy, to the commercial banking

762
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 2: sector and to property. Property, it appears, has been the

763
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 2: single biggest driver of the Chinese middle class and of

764
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 2: Chinese wealth. It was one of the ways that the

765
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 2: Chinese commune a party can sell the so called Chinese dream.

766
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: You accept authoritarianism, we make you relatively more well off

767
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: than your parents ever have before in the history of China,

768
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: and it's like we're good to go. The problem is

769
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 2: is that increasingly hasn't been the case. We've had multiple

770
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: blow ups like the whole Evergrand thing and more. But

771
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: Roady points to about the structural problems on top of

772
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: an overall dissatisfaction at a very individual level about the

773
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: economy faces big issues for them right now, crystal huge.

774
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: And I mean anyone who's lived through two thousand and eight,

775
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: even though it's not exactly analogous because our system is

776
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: different than their system, can understand the way that real

777
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: estate shocks can reverberate throughout the entire economy can potentially

778
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: trigger bank failures. At the very least, even if banks

779
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: remain solvent, what are they going to do. They're going

780
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: to hoard cash, They're not going to lend us much money.

781
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: That causes problems downstream for businesses. So and if you

782
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,240
Speaker 1: have huge loss of value in terms of these homes

783
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: that Chinese citizen has been using and build their own wealth,

784
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: that's obviously an issue for the home ownership class. So

785
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: it's a huge question mark. And the expectation was that

786
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: China would come out of COVID and their COVID zero

787
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: policies and their pandemic era lockdowns and they would really

788
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: go sort of like hule Hog and they'd be growing

789
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: like crazy. That has not come to pass whatsoever. And

790
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: it's because of these issues in the real estate market predominantly,

791
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: which by the way, property drives about a quarter of

792
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: total economic activity in China. To wildly oversimplify part of

793
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: what Peter Zihan is saying here is effectively, you know,

794
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: in the early stages of their rapid growth, it was

795
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: all about industrialization. It was about building, it was about

796
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: building factories, it was about driving exports. That was the

797
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: big focus. That's what you have all this like overbuilding.

798
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: You know, too many airports, too many bridges, too many roads,

799
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: because they just sort of like exhausted that avenue of growth.

800
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: And then the next avenue of growth that they pushed

801
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: was really around property, real estate development and home ownership.

802
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: So the fact that we're coming to the end of that,

803
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: and that's something that they were aware of. They've been

804
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: trying to delicately pop this bubble without it being a

805
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: complete catastrophe, and they may be able to pull it off.

806
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: They've taken some steps to reduce their risk. You have

807
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: a very active involved to government that could potentially soften

808
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: the blow, So it's not inevitable that you have some

809
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: sort of a massive collapse, but there are a lot

810
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: of really big risk factors, which I think is evidenced

811
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: by those charts that we showed of how things have

812
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: fallen off of already.

813
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: And the problem is this is infecting the entire Asian market,

814
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: which is deeply tied into China. Let's put this up

815
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: there on the screen right now, the World Bank is

816
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: saying that Asia faces one of the worst economic outlooks

817
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 2: in half a century, and almost all of it just

818
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: comes back to China. It's because China's economic output their

819
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: initial target right now is only five percent, and the

820
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: World Bank actually says that it will probably only grow

821
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: at four point four percent, which is down from four

822
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,919
Speaker 2: point eight expected. That's a lot for us, but that's

823
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: not how it works in a developing economy. They got

824
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: addicted to eight ten percent economic growth. They even downgroded

825
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 2: the downgrade of the twenty twenty four forecasts for GDP

826
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 2: growth all across the East Asia Pacific, largely because of

827
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 2: intra trade with China. And what they say is that

828
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 2: Chinese retail sales right now have plunged to pre pandemic

829
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: below pre pandemic levels, house prices are not working, increased

830
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 2: amount of household debt, lagging private sector investment. A lot

831
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: of this also comes to the actual stranglehold that the

832
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 2: CCP has on the economy, and there's no real private

833
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: investment in China. Everything is controlled and manipulated by the government.

834
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: One thing is too As I've been reading a lot

835
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 2: about Shishingping has effectively decided that he will not choose

836
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 2: the easy way out.

837
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 3: The easy way out we particularly put the.

838
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 2: Hand off, let the market go wild, allow you know,

839
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: less control from the government, but allow the economy to

840
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: be rescued. He so values the ability to control the

841
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 2: total tight grip of the CCP and authoritarianism on the

842
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: Chinese way of life that he is not willing to

843
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 2: go down that road. He believes in the long run

844
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 2: is just will you know, you should just suck it up,

845
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: take the losses wherever you can, even potentially a crisis,

846
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 2: but as long as the regime remains intact, that's the

847
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: most important thing. It's a major departure from some of

848
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: his predecessors, and especially the Deng Zhouping like school of

849
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: economic thought and how the way the China should be governed.

850
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,479
Speaker 2: So it's a fascinating like ideological collision happening in China.

851
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 2: And ultimately, I mean, I think that is what will

852
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: be the end if ding zouping Ism. I guess if

853
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 2: you could say was the type of governance that would

854
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: be in place today, they wouldn't. They wouldn't be in

855
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: this type of problem. But with where they are ideologically

856
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: and with their obsession about power, they simply can't get

857
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 2: their way out of this, even with throwing as much

858
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: money as they possibly can, you know, into the economy,

859
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: even with their rigged statistics. Don't forget you know this

860
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 2: four point four Who the hell knows if it's true,

861
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 2: it could be two percent. I mean, I remember reading

862
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: in the past about the manipulation of economic data that

863
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: goes all the way down to like the factory level

864
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 2: on up. These are all legacies of Mao Zadon communism.

865
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 2: But the point is that, I mean, Peter has got

866
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 2: a very aggressive timeline. But I always think it's just

867
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: fun to play as clip because I mean, look, he

868
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: called the Ukraine invasion right basically to the year twenty

869
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 2: twenty two, and structurally it was a counter intuitive take

870
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, and at this point it's

871
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: just not counterintuitive anymore. So I have no choice but

872
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: to at least take it seriously and be like, look,

873
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: maybe not ten years. I don't know if you know

874
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: if his prediction is correct, but who knows.

875
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's certainly possible.

876
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 2: Like as you said in two thousand and eight, that's

877
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: a huge portion of why we are in our politics today.

878
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: To me, it's just a rack and oaight, that's it.

879
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 2: Those are the two chief things for why we are today.

880
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 2: It's very possible China could find himself in a similar situation.

881
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: And as I always warn, just because you're on the

882
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: way down doesn't mean that.

883
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: You won't be more aggressive.

884
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: In many ways, you become more aggressive whenever you get desperate,

885
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 2: so things could actually become more dangerous in terms of

886
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 2: the global geopolitical situation.

887
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: I think it's also worth saying because China has in

888
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 1: many ways bucked the idea of like the neoliberal model

889
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: of growth. There have been a lot of naysayers about China.

890
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of like doom forecasting or doom

891
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: wishing on the Chinese economy that hasn't come to pass before.

892
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: And so as we you know, consider these numbers and

893
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: look at what's going on, I think it's important to

894
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: bear in mind that there have been a lot of

895
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: people have been really wrong about China in the past.

896
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 4: And I also think it's.

897
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: Important that you know, while we abhor the authoritarianism that

898
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: has been involved the growth model, it is responsible for

899
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: lifting more people out of poverty than anything else in

900
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: modern The fact that you've had global poverty go down

901
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 1: is basically all because of what has happened in China

902
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: and somewhat of what's going on in India as well,

903
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: which is also a bit of a different model. So

904
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: I think those things are important to bear in mind.

905
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: The other thing you were pointing to, the ideology, Sager,

906
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things Western economists or neoliberal

907
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: economis would say was like, Okay, now you're at this

908
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: stage of growth and development. What you should do is

909
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: start selling a bunch of crap to your own people

910
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: and like move into this like service sector and consumer

911
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: dominated economy like what we have here in the good

912
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: old US of A. And that would be one solution

913
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: to this problem. It happens to be a solution they

914
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: do not want to pursue, and so that makes it

915
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, on the one hand, I understand that because

916
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: it does I think, get to some of the like

917
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: you know, the rot of what's going on here morally, ethically,

918
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: ideologically in America. But on the other hand, it also

919
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: constrains your choices of how you get out of this

920
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: particular pickle that they are in. And the last thing

921
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: it I'll throw here in here to the mix as

922
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 1: another stumbling block and challenge for them is they grew,

923
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 1: especially you know, in the early two thousands, so rapidly

924
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: because of PNTR, because of opening up, because of you know,

925
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: being able to feed our domestic markets. And now you

926
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: have a very rapidly changing global policy landscape, in particular

927
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: with regards to the United States through Chips Act and

928
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: through the Inflation Reduction Act, and that has already hit

929
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: exports coming out of China, but coming out of the

930
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,919
Speaker 1: entire region, and so on top of everything else that's

931
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: going on, increasingly protectionist policies, which I support by the

932
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 1: way from a US perspective, but those protections policies are

933
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: also making things more challenging for China and for some

934
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: of the region.

935
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:09,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

936
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because as you were talking about

937
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: with China, we don't know. It's one of those where

938
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: in a certain way, I almost like sympathize, I guess

939
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: because they're like, yeah, we don't want your degenerate like

940
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 2: Western values like we're now. We don't want our kids

941
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 2: addicted to video games, to drugs and doing all this

942
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: stuff that we want people to be hard working. So

943
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, okay, but like the way they accomplish

944
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 2: that is like complete ideological control and straight.

945
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 4: Up don't support that part.

946
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 10: Yeah.

947
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 3: I don't know what's the part at all. I'm like,

948
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's possible.

949
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I mean I in some ways I'm sympathetic,

950
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: like we don't want to become a consumer based economy,

951
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's like you built your

952
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 2: entire system to basically serve the consumer whims of the West.

953
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 2: That's not particularly sustainable model either. And I would also

954
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: say I think PNTR is more single handedly responsible than

955
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 2: any Chinese domestic policy that they pursued intentionally. And actually,

956
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: if anything, their genius was basicallyling the West into thinking, hey, yeah,

957
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 2: we'll sign all these things and we'll liberalize, Like, don't

958
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 2: worry about it, it's all good.

959
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 4: Well, we wanted to hear that.

960
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 3: Ye believe that it was a great deal, you know,

961
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 3: I think for everybody.

962
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 2: And Dengzhaoping there's a great biography of him where I

963
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: forget the exact quote and I can't find it right now,

964
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: but it effectively comes down to he's like, we will

965
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 2: fool the West into thinking that we will liberalize by

966
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 2: signing these deals at the time, and at the same time,

967
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 2: we'll rob them blind and we'll steal everything that makes

968
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 2: them great, and then we will beat them in the

969
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 2: long run. I mean, I think in many ways, you know,

970
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: he's up there with like Lee Kwan Yu in terms

971
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 2: of like the great genius statement statesman of all time.

972
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it like an endorsement.

973
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: It's just that I don't think it's a deniable fact

974
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: that he put them on this path. But look, regardless,

975
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: always interesting, we always got to keep an eye on it.

976
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be huge, reverberating impacts. I mean, this

977
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: is a gigantic economy, so what happens there. It's not

978
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: like we are isolated or insulated from it.

979
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 3: Okay, let's move on to the next one.

980
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: We brought you about the news last week of Canada

981
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 2: celebrating a literal Nazi in the parliament.

982
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 3: This led to the resignation of the Canadian speaker.

983
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Trudeau had to apologize to the Canadian people

984
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: for the background. It was when Zelenski was appearing before

985
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 2: parliament and they honored a quote unquote Ukrainian freedom fighter

986
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 2: who is in his late nineties. They failed to mention

987
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: that the so called freedom fighter was a member of

988
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 2: the Waffen SS who volunteered and whose unit was implicated

989
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 2: in multiple war crimes that had been verified. We don't

990
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: know if he has The Polish government has since actually

991
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 2: indicated they may seek to extradite him. Just to give

992
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: you a little bit of an idea. This, though, has

993
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: set off a really fun discourse about well, can't we

994
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: sympathize with these Ukrainians. They were stuck in an awful

995
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: position because they've been conquered by the Soviets and then

996
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 2: the Nazis came in and the whole enemy in my

997
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 2: enemy is my friend at a conceptual level, maybe, but

998
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 2: we're not talking about a waremach soldier. We're talking about

999
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:07,720
Speaker 2: a straight up volunteer for the waften SS sworn Guard

1000
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 2: of Hitlerism.

1001
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 3: Let's put this out.

1002
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 2: There on the screen, just give you a little bit

1003
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: of a taste of what some of this apology.

1004
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 3: It looks like.

1005
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: This is from Politico quote A lie can make it

1006
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: halfway around the world before the truth is got its

1007
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: boots on. The ongoing turmoil over the parliament recognizing the

1008
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: former trooper highlights one of the most important reasons why,

1009
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: and the headline is fighting against the USSR didn't necessarily make.

1010
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 3: You a Nazi.

1011
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: And yet, as they actually quote here from the Nuremberg

1012
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: Tribunal quote, the Tribunal declares to be criminal within the

1013
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 2: meaning of the Charter those persons who had been officially

1014
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: accepted as members of the SS and again, this person

1015
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: was explicitly implicated in massacres, this unit that occurred in.

1016
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: Either Ukraine Poland.

1017
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: I forget the borders moved since all this has happened,

1018
00:46:58,520 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, I was talking to Yego

1019
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: about this. There are there's I don't understand this, like

1020
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 2: Nazi revisionism. There are heroic Ukrainian fighters who fought on

1021
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 2: the side of the Soviet Union against the tide of

1022
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: Nazism and who still were not like.

1023
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 3: Sworn allies of Stalin.

1024
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: They were still they were still Ukrainian nationalists who fought

1025
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 2: valiantly and bravely. Some of the worst battles on the

1026
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: Eastern Front occurred on current Ukrainian soils.

1027
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 3: Horrific slaughter.

1028
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 2: I mean hundreds of millions of people who were killed there,

1029
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: and many of them were Ukrainian soldiers, yes, who were

1030
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 2: caught in a tough spot. But don't forget this, you know,

1031
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: after this whole like fairy tale idea of like, oh,

1032
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: we only fought for the Nazis because they were fighting

1033
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 2: against Stalin. In many cases, you know, the Nazis would

1034
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 2: come in and they would hang half the people in

1035
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:49,959
Speaker 2: the streets, right and.

1036
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 3: Then they would also be like, hey, tell us where

1037
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 3: all the Jews are.

1038
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, a lot of people you know, did were complicit

1039
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 2: within that, and it has led to this really bizarre

1040
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: moment where we're trying to like whitewash history and make

1041
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 2: it so that actually the Soviets were.

1042
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 3: The real enemy.

1043
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 2: Now, I'm not going to glorify the freaking Soviet Union,

1044
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 2: and did a whole mologue about Stalin's murderous invasion of

1045
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 2: Finland yesterday, but just to give people a taste, this

1046
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: is the highest levels of government. This is from Secretary

1047
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,479
Speaker 2: Anthony Blincoln, our Secretary of State.

1048
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 3: Here's what he tweets.

1049
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: He tweets eighty two years ago, Nazis murdered thirty four

1050
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: thousand Jews at Bobignor. Soviets buried the history which today

1051
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: Putin's government manipulates to cover for Russian's abuses in Ukraine.

1052
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: The US is committed to justice for Holocaust survivors and accountability.

1053
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 2: And as a very basic fact check that is added

1054
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 2: to there, it's Soviet prisoners of war who were among

1055
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: the people who.

1056
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: Were massacred at Bobynor.

1057
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 2: The Soviets actually liberated Babynor and Kiev in nineteen forty three.

1058
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 3: Quote, the Soviets held a trial in.

1059
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: Nineteen forty six in Kiev for fifteen German policemen who

1060
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 2: were involved in said massacre. This is not Soviet glorification.

1061
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 2: They did plenty of horrible things in many respects. They

1062
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 2: are responsible for just as many, if not more, debts,

1063
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 2: and we can talk about that all day long. But

1064
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: why do we have to do this like jiu jitsu

1065
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 2: of the mind to be like, no, they were actually

1066
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 2: the enemy at that time. We're going to outright, you know,

1067
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: blame the Soviets for something that they didn't even do

1068
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 2: at the time, and then tie it to Putinism. The

1069
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: invasion of Ukraine is enough. The current invasion it's horrible.

1070
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 2: It's like, why are we doing this revisionism? And honestly,

1071
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 2: like it is the most it is the strangest, you

1072
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: know tie that I have seen in recent days. And

1073
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 2: I think all of it comes back to if we

1074
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 2: have to talk about Nazism in Ukraine, you just seem

1075
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: like you're a putin ally And it doesn't make you

1076
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: a putin ally to say, yeah, there's a neo Nazi

1077
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 2: problem inside of Ukraine. Does it evalidate all of the

1078
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 2: Russian criticisms of Ukraine. No doesn't mean now Ukraine is

1079
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 2: are Nazi, Absolutely not, But yeah, it exists. It's an issue.

1080
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: It just means that the conflict is a gray zone,

1081
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 2: like it is in almost every conflict that's ever happened

1082
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: in all of human history.

1083
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 4: The Secretary blink in one.

1084
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,959
Speaker 1: First of all, I I genuinely don't understand why people

1085
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: are feeling they need to do this, like the Politico

1086
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 1: Europe piece, that's like, well, it is not necessarily a Nazi.

1087
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 4: It's like, this thing is already over.

1088
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: The Prime Minister already apologized, like the speaker of the

1089
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: Parliament already stepped down.

1090
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 4: Like Jewish groups were Ingrad. Why are you going back

1091
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 4: to this? You lost this one.

1092
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: Why why are you doing this? You don't have to

1093
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: do this, It's over, okay. The Secretary blink and one

1094
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't even on its face makes sense because he's like,

1095
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: on the one hand he says, Soviets buried this history,

1096
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: and on the other hand he says, Putin's government is

1097
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 1: manipulating this history to bride cover for Russia's abuses in Ukraine.

1098
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 4: Which is it did they bury it? Are they using it?

1099
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 4: Are they manipulating it?

1100
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: Is it probably like what it doesn't even literally make

1101
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: sense on its face, And so it goes back to

1102
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 1: this very disnified, black and white view of the world

1103
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: view of this conflict, where they're the bad guys, and

1104
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: now we got to rewrite all of history to make

1105
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 1: sure that they were always the bad guys, and they're

1106
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: always going to be the bad guys. And if Putin's

1107
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: trying to use World War II history to glorify them

1108
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: justify as evation, well we're going to change our minds

1109
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: about what happened with the Nazis that we're going to

1110
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: be completely different and we're going to try to revive

1111
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: these historic Ukrainian nationalist freedom fighters who signed up to

1112
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: be Nazis. I mean, let's be clear about this. If

1113
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: you were in the WAFT and SS you had to

1114
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: swear allegiance to Hitler in the Nazi Party, you were

1115
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: a Nazi. Like, it is not complicated. You don't need

1116
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 1: to go back and be like, well, really, maybe they

1117
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: weren't necessary.

1118
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 4: No, they were literally a Nazi. Okay.

1119
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: Now there may be gradations of the atrocities they commit

1120
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: or whatever. We don't know what this man did in

1121
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 1: his life, but you don't need to glorify him in parliament,

1122
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: and you don't mean to justify glorifying him in parliament.

1123
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: And that's the problem is they tried to make it conceptual.

1124
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 2: They're actually not wrong. And so I will say it.

1125
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 2: There are some people who were in the Waffan asset.

1126
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: I'm not justifying or excusing their behavior, but who did

1127
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 2: not participate in atrocities. They're probably more akin to like

1128
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 2: Elite where mock troops, and in many respects, you know,

1129
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 2: did fight very bravely on the Eastern Front, but that

1130
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 2: doesn't erase the reason that they joined.

1131
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,240
Speaker 3: And just because they were deployed in that way.

1132
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that they couldn't have easily been deployed to

1133
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: a death camp, and in many cases they actually did both.

1134
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: So it's just again, history does not smile kindly on this,

1135
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 2: considering especially what happened with Nuremberg.

1136
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: Can I also just say, and maybe you can help

1137
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 1: me understand illuminate the history on this, Sagar, Did they

1138
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: really delude themselves into thinking Hitler was going to give

1139
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: them their freedom and their independent state?

1140
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 4: I mean that seems that seems really wild to me.

1141
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 2: Well, in the initial months, it wasn't a crazy idea.

1142
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: So in the initial months there and may you know

1143
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: a lot of Ukrainians don't want to talk about this,

1144
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 2: but like in Kiev and in some of the places

1145
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 2: that Hitler rolled through, they had signs being like welcome,

1146
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: we glorify Hitler, like they had actual swastikas that were up.

1147
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 3: Again.

1148
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 2: I mean, it's actually Hitler's stupidity and the German armies

1149
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 2: idiocy where they didn't cast themselves as an army of

1150
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 2: liberation and instead they embraced like full scale slaughter their

1151
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: popular Their their plan in.

1152
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 3: The East was depopulation.

1153
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: They had this I forget what the name of it

1154
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 2: was called, but it was effectively what they gave an

1155
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 2: order where they're like all food is for German troops.

1156
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 2: They're like food is not a priority for Soviet prisoners

1157
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: of war and for Soviet residents. Effectively famine, starve them

1158
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: out and to kill them. The best book I've ever

1159
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: read on this subject is called Stalin's War. It's actually

1160
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 2: a recent book quote a new history of World War

1161
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,399
Speaker 2: Two by a guy named Sean mckeekon is a very

1162
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 2: very provocative book. It is still the best book I've

1163
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 2: ever read on the subject. It's what I did the

1164
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: monologu yesterday about the Winter War. That's where I learned

1165
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: a lot of the you know, colored in details. I mean,

1166
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 2: even yesterday I talked about the Winter War. Here's you know,

1167
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 2: I didn't have the time to go into a lot

1168
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 2: of it. I mean, even the Finnish history is complicated

1169
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: because after that peace deal I talked about, well, they

1170
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 2: started to deal with the Nazis, and they actually worked

1171
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 2: with the Nazis to invade the Soviet Union.

1172
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 3: It's called the Continuation War.

1173
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 2: And you know, they basically were like, look, we're willing

1174
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: to fight with whomever they want. But the part of

1175
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: their history that they glorify is not that they glorify.

1176
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 2: We fought always for Finnish independence. That was like the

1177
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 2: point that I was trying to make right in that monologue.

1178
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: It's just interesting though, because you know, with on all

1179
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 2: of this and all of this historical revisionism, it's really

1180
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 2: like nineteen eighty four esque of like Oceania has always

1181
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 2: been at war with East Asia. We're like, no, like

1182
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 2: Russia is bad now, which means it's been bad for

1183
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 2: all time.

1184
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:23,919
Speaker 3: It's like, well, we were actually allies at the time.

1185
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 2: We were you know, who do you think was fun

1186
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 2: than the Soviet military?

1187
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 3: It was us.

1188
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 2: This is the only reason that they were able to

1189
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 2: succeed in first place. They would never have won staling

1190
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 2: Rod or any of their major battles if it wasn't

1191
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: for lend lease and a tremendous amount of military and

1192
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 2: economic aid that we were able to provide for them. So,

1193
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think all of this is very bizarre.

1194
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: I think it comes back to exactly what you said,

1195
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 2: is we just love the Disney version.

1196
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 3: Is just easier.

1197
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: We invaded on D Day, Yeah, that was it, and

1198
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: it's like ninety percent of the casualties were on the

1199
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 2: Eastern Front. We just we had no idea what happened

1200
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 2: over there. It also leads to this rev vism too

1201
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 2: about corruption. Just to give you an idea too, of like, okay,

1202
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 2: if we're finally allowed to talk about Nazis and Ukraine,

1203
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 2: put this up there. Just yesterday Politico got its hands

1204
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 2: on quote leaked to you s strategy that sees Ukraine

1205
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: as a massive corruption, as a massive threat inside. But

1206
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 2: really what troubled me obviously, you know, it's no joke

1207
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 2: that corruption is a problem. It's that Biden decided not

1208
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 2: to raise it for the first year of the war

1209
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 2: when they were getting the vast majority of the support,

1210
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 2: because he thought it would validate critics of the war

1211
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 2: in Ukraine. And honestly, what's even creepier is inside of

1212
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: this twenty one page memo is a straight up Afghan

1213
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 2: era like an Afghan Ara nation building plan. They're like,

1214
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: here's our recommendation for how you need to redo your military.

1215
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 2: Here's our recommendation for how you to redo your banking

1216
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 2: sector and your energy sector. I'm like, when did we

1217
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 2: sign up for this? I thought we were shipping them weapons.

1218
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: But as I did my monologue about no man, we're

1219
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 2: paying their small businesses, we're paying their emergency responders, we're

1220
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 2: bankrolling their entire civil societ. This is Afghanistan two point zero.

1221
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 2: The US military does not know how to do war

1222
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 2: without nation building, and that's what we're signing up for

1223
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: in Ukraine right now.

1224
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: Not only that, I mean there were some real red

1225
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: flags here in terms of their view of how you

1226
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: eliminate corruption is basically like market radical neolib.

1227
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's a good point.

1228
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean everything was like oh, the problem in the

1229
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: banking sector. Better make it privatized, because lord knows, there's

1230
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: no corruption in our banking sector with it being privatized.

1231
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 1: So one of their envision milestones, they say, is that

1232
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: Alpha Bank is transparently returned to private ownership because it

1233
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:37,280
Speaker 1: was an institution now known as Sansabank. It was previously

1234
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: Russian known now nationalized by Ukraine. Got to privatize everything

1235
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: to root out the corruption, because that's certainly been the

1236
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: secret solution to all of our problems here. So there

1237
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: were some major red flags here. There's number one the

1238
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: fact this was hidden. There was a public version of

1239
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: the report that was much more sort of like high

1240
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: level and sanitized. This was the private version that Politico

1241
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: was able to get their hands on. The number of

1242
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: industries that we had a lot of opinions about was

1243
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: quite extraordinary. And then the suggestions themselves also were you know,

1244
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: fit a playbook that we've been rolling out around the

1245
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 1: world for quite a long time.

1246
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, ask Afghanistan how it worked out. We try to

1247
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: take one of the most corrupt nations on earth, of

1248
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 2: which Ukraine was before the war. This is not this

1249
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 2: is an indisputable fact, And how it worked out for

1250
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 2: US taxpayer dollars, our effort, and even for the Afghan people.

1251
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: For all of those so called efforts, it didn't work

1252
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:28,479
Speaker 2: out so well.

1253
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 3: But we don't.

1254
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 2: Simply we simply do not know how to operate without

1255
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 2: running that playbook anyway. Just wanted to get people to

1256
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: know it's insane really to see this level of revisionism,

1257
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 2: but honestly, it is a good view into the elite

1258
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 2: mind of like, Okay, Russia bad. That means Russia always

1259
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: been bad, and that means we have to go retroactively,

1260
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: you know, basically lie about stuff from what's eighty years

1261
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 2: seventy five years ago. It's just craziness. It's absolute madness.

1262
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: But that is the absolute state of where we are

1263
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: with Ukraine discourse today.

1264
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 4: It is pretty wild, all right.

1265
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: We wanted to bring to you some updates on what's

1266
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: going on with United Auto Workers strike, which has expanded significantly.

1267
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 4: We'll get to that in a minute.

1268
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,439
Speaker 1: But first have to show you Jordan Sheridan, who's doing

1269
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: great work on the ground for US and for his

1270
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: network status coup. He was talking to a worker and

1271
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: this worker brought up on his own his thoughts and

1272
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: feelings about CNBC anchor Jim Kramer.

1273
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 4: Take a listen.

1274
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 11: What's that guy called Jim Kramer?

1275
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 12: Is at his name?

1276
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, let lose feel for he needs to bring.

1277
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 11: His factor to Lancing and getting one of these plants

1278
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 11: over here and see how it feels.

1279
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 4: You know.

1280
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 11: It's those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, right,

1281
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 11: And I feel like people who don't do what we

1282
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 11: do don't know how it is.

1283
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 2: I think there's a nuclear option on the table.

1284
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 3: If he's not careful.

1285
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 12: That nuclear option is a country called Mexico. Say listen

1286
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 12: all the new you want to know where the new

1287
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 12: ones are going to be made. We're going to continue

1288
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 12: to make the old ones.

1289
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 3: But Pepa's got a.

1290
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 12: Fifty five thousand person factory for VW and they good

1291
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 12: educational workforce is five dollars an hour, no real push

1292
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 12: and control rules that's not to be mentioned. Have free healthcare,

1293
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 12: so you know what you would have played ball? You

1294
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 12: want to keep doing this, Mexico.

1295
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 8: Glad to see you're standing up for the American worker here, Jim,

1296
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 8: Thanks for that.

1297
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 11: See how many people buy GM cars? See how many

1298
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 11: people buy Big three cars?

1299
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 2: Period?

1300
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 11: You know, if they want to shut down and go

1301
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 11: someplace else like that. That's fine, go ahead, do it.

1302
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 11: I've been I've owned GM cars my whole life. They

1303
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 11: do that, I will never buy a GM car.

1304
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 10: Game.

1305
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: Bring his fat behind here and see what it's like.

1306
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 4: Waka day in my shoes.

1307
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: I mean, Kramer has been cartoonishly evil with regard. I mean,

1308
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: it's not just those comments that where it's like, hey,

1309
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: just ship all the jobs to Mexico, which is the

1310
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: idea you would suggest that. I mean, you're talking about

1311
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: ruining people's lives, which are ruining towns. Yea, like destroying

1312
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: entire cities and ruining people's lives. Just casually throwing that

1313
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: out there is unbelievable. But he's I mean, there's been

1314
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,919
Speaker 1: so many clips we've played here of him just being

1315
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,439
Speaker 1: brazenly on the side of bosses and trashing the auto workers, etc.

1316
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: That it's nice to see this is obviously breaking through

1317
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: and actually helping to strengthen the resolve of the workers

1318
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: who are there striking on the picket line.

1319
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 2: No, that actually think is the most interesting part is

1320
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 2: that clearly they are paying attention right now, they can

1321
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 2: see how this is all being covered in the media,

1322
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 2: and as that happens. I think people are really starting

1323
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 2: to pay attention because the union has garnered a lot

1324
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 2: of public attention as to how the people who are

1325
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 2: in charge are reacting to this Crystal. You found this

1326
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 2: clip of this billionaire if you want to set that up.

1327
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this dude, some CEO billionaire guy goes on

1328
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 1: and blames the unions for driving up inflation. We've got

1329
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: that clip for you, and we also have a little

1330
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: reminder of what his economic views have been historically, where

1331
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: he called for a nice little recession to force workers to.

1332
01:00:58,320 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 4: Get back in the offices.

1333
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 7: Let's take as the UAW is on strike, you're asking

1334
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 7: for forty percent of wage increases the unions. Is funnycause

1335
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 7: the Democrats. What's wrong with the Biden administration wise? He's

1336
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 7: so impopular. It's inflation, that's what people say. It's the economy.

1337
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 7: I mean, it's economy. People have less than their pocket.

1338
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 7: But now he's backing the unions who are forcing wages up,

1339
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,439
Speaker 7: which is creating the inflation. He has to kill some

1340
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 7: of those cities that have issues on commuting, like New

1341
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 7: York or La Downtown, La Downtown, San Francisco, the CBD

1342
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 7: that are difficult to commute to. That's where the pressure

1343
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 7: is so hard from workers saying I don't want to

1344
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 7: drive into the city an hour and a half and

1345
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 7: drive home an hour and a half every day. But

1346
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 7: I also think a nice little recession will clear this

1347
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 7: and you'll see people come back to the opposite.

1348
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 4: Nice ression, Nice little recession. Saga, great guy.

1349
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 3: This sumpture makes me so crazy.

1350
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 2: You know, it's like there's it's been proven because every

1351
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 2: increase in the unemployment rate is directly tied to suicide.

1352
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 2: Two thousand and eight killed tens of thousands of people,

1353
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 2: and not to mention when you lose your healthcare. Also,

1354
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 2: money is the number one cause of divorce. It caused

1355
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 2: a huge amount of relational problems. People lost their houses.

1356
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 2: It's horrible, I mean, ruined millions of people's lives and

1357
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: left a lot of trauma for a lot of families.

1358
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 2: And so when you're just casually talking about recession, you

1359
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 2: should never wish that on anyone. It leads to literally

1360
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 2: immediate death and to a tremendous amount of suffering, you know,

1361
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 2: throughout the entire economy and really on a personal level.

1362
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 2: That's the other thing that's so callous. About the Jim

1363
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 2: Kramer like, oh, just ship it to Mexico. I'm like,

1364
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 2: let's also just think about what we're saying there. We're like,

1365
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: we're going to get these poor Mexicans to work with

1366
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: no work or protections, that's right, and with lower wages

1367
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 2: and exploit them in their country so that we can

1368
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 2: buy a car, which let's all be honest, it ain't

1369
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 2: gonna be cheaper. They current price of a car is

1370
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 2: like fifty thousand dollars, so they'll still keep the price

1371
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:54,240
Speaker 2: the same. They're just going to take the money that

1372
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 2: they would have saved supposedly in wages. They're not going

1373
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 2: to pass it on to you. That's going to take

1374
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 2: it right back to the shareholder. All of this is

1375
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 2: just a very convluted and discussing way to look at

1376
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 2: the overall economy. But I think that you know, the

1377
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,920
Speaker 2: more that we highlight these things, the more attention that

1378
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 2: people can understand about what the people in charge really

1379
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 2: do think of them. Like whenever you try and make

1380
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 2: it a binary choice, if things start to get real revealing,

1381
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:16,959
Speaker 2: this is we're at.

1382
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: This is a psychopathic mentality, It genuinely is, and just

1383
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: so everyone is totally clear, the stuff he said about

1384
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: inflation and worker's wages causing it is complete garbage, complete garbage,

1385
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: especially if you look specifically at the auto industry, where

1386
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: workers have actually taken a pay cut when you account

1387
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: for inflation. Okay, their pay has gone backwards at the

1388
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 1: same time that new car prices have skyrocketed. And you

1389
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: know what, the automakers have found that it is more

1390
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: profitable for them to sell fewer cars but have them

1391
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: be astronomically expensive. And by the way, like many other industries,

1392
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: use the excuse.

1393
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 4: Of inflation to jack up prices.

1394
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: And not to say say they didn't have issues with

1395
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: supply chains, issues with semiconductors. There are some genuine things,

1396
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: and none of them had anything to do with the

1397
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: wages that these workers are being paid, which accounts for

1398
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: somewhere between four and five percent of the costs of

1399
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 1: the new car. So these supposedly brilliant minds, I don't

1400
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: know if he's just an idiot, I don't know if

1401
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: he hasn't looked at the numbers, or I don't know

1402
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: if he's just happy to shamelessly lie in service of

1403
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: his own twisted, ugly, psychopathic economic ideology.

1404
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 4: But whatever, it is.

1405
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: What he's saying there is dead wrong and there is

1406
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: no there are no numbers that can back up what

1407
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: he is spouting. There the nonsense that he's spouting also

1408
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: on CNBC.

1409
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 2: I always think he's funny. Whenever people are talking about

1410
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 2: car they're like, oh, these wages all this. I'm like, what,

1411
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 2: you don't want to talk about dealers, let's probably like

1412
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 2: the number one source of markup. Like you don't want

1413
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 2: to talk about the financing model and the way that

1414
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 2: a lot of these people even keep themselves afloat. You

1415
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 2: don't want to talk about industry, like you said semiconductors,

1416
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 2: that's actually an area where national policy could get involved.

1417
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 2: I mean, the Big three have nobody put themselves to

1418
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 2: blame in a lot of ways. I mean, they have

1419
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 2: not designed good cars for a long time, and in

1420
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 2: many respects it's not because of the union. It's because

1421
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 2: they got fat and happy, and their shareholders were basically

1422
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 2: printing money by giving them self stock buybacks as well

1423
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 2: as the CEO is making a ton for themselves, and

1424
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,439
Speaker 2: that's why Toyota, Tesla and all these other people clean

1425
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 2: them up. So anyway, I think there's a lot more like.

1426
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 4: The Machi and I love them both.

1427
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 3: Well, listen, Chris, those are the two premier models.

1428
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 2: Go ask somebody driving a Chevy Equinox how it compares

1429
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 2: to like a Honda CRV.

1430
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 3: You'd be a fool.

1431
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 2: In my look, this is not any advice. In my opinion,

1432
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 2: you would be an idiot to buy an Equinox over

1433
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 2: like a CRV or a RAB four or any of

1434
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 2: these other ones.

1435
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 3: And I think that, honestly, that is a tragedy.

1436
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 2: Like if I think cars are cool, I wish American

1437
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 2: cars were awesome, but if they are not at the

1438
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 2: higher end of the spectrum, and we're talking about middle class,

1439
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,160
Speaker 2: you should buy Asian every single time. I'm only talking

1440
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 2: from a consumer level, replacement parts, you know, mechanics, reliability, weather,

1441
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 2: like on every metric it wins. The only American car

1442
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 2: that can even come close on that is Tesla, and

1443
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 2: that's in the electric sector.

1444
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 3: So that would be my union.

1445
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 4: Personally.

1446
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: I love my American main cars.

1447
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 3: You got actually the good ones, but the majority of

1448
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 3: people aren't buying those.

1449
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: But what he's spouting consense. I do want to give

1450
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: people a quick update on what is going on with

1451
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: the strike. Go ahead and put this up on the

1452
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: screen about there was an announcement of an expansion of

1453
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: the strike, but they're only hitting Ford or I guess

1454
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: expanding with Ford and GM. It looks like they are

1455
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: making some progress with Stalantis, which is interesting. Wall Street

1456
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: Journal has a look here at some of the dynamics

1457
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 1: and what's going on. It looks like the big thing

1458
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 1: that Stalantis gave ground on was cost of living issues

1459
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: and the right to strike over plant closures, which is

1460
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 1: a really he asked here. Fain says that they're making progress,

1461
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: but gap still remain. So this just continues to pace

1462
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: a lot of pain for the people that are involved,

1463
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 1: and certainly a lot of pain for these companies that

1464
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: are involved. That part I don't mind so much, and

1465
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: we'll see where we go from here. Fain has been

1466
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: making these announcements usually Friday morning, of when and how

1467
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: they're going to expand the strike. Remember this is part

1468
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: of that stand up strategy, which is we're not going

1469
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: to go out all at once to help preserve the

1470
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: strike fund and also to keep these companies on their

1471
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: toes about what's going to happen next. Seems like they're

1472
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: making a lot of progress at the negotiating table, even

1473
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 1: as they have not yet achieved their goals and don't

1474
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: have a contract with any of the Big three. So

1475
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 1: we will continue to watch it very closely because obviously

1476
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: it's a huge deal, not just for autoworkers, but for

1477
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 1: the economy overall. That's right, all right, Sacher, are you

1478
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: looking at well?

1479
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 2: In our Ama questions for this week, one of our

1480
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 2: viewers asked from Canada, can we bring more attention to

1481
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 2: the country. I explain that to the extent that we

1482
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 2: cover it, it's when it intersects with our politics.

1483
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 3: Or to a broader theme that we care a lot about.

1484
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 2: In this particular case, it's because Canada has long been

1485
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: a leader in North America for piloting censorship programs, eager

1486
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 2: to abuse their lack of First Amendment protections to stomp

1487
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 2: on Western traditions of free speech free expression with Orwellian

1488
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,839
Speaker 2: government control. The latest example is one that was flagged

1489
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: by friend Glenn Greenwald, and it bears really investigating. The

1490
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:30,639
Speaker 2: Canadian Radio, Television and Telecommunications Commission announced a new policy

1491
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:34,440
Speaker 2: requiring online streaming services to provide the government with information

1492
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,480
Speaker 2: about their activities in Canada. These streaming services include podcasts

1493
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:42,480
Speaker 2: which must register with the government to quote permit regulatory controls.

1494
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 2: So what are these regulatory controls? What are we talking

1495
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 2: about here. The current registration requirement is driven by the

1496
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 2: so called Online Streaming Act, which passed last year. It

1497
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 2: will require these newly registered platforms to quote need to

1498
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 2: make support Canadian and Indigenous content. Will include provisions that

1499
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 2: will require these platforms to quote create a broadcasting system

1500
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 2: that is reflective of Canadian society and quote strengthens indigenous

1501
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 2: broadcasts and supports the vitality of Indigenous languages. So basically,

1502
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 2: regislation and compliance is required under the law that will

1503
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 2: then direct racial and cultural quotas to those who wish

1504
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 2: to broadcast in Canada, giving the government broad authority over

1505
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 2: who you can hire, what you can broadcast, and even

1506
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 2: including languages. Now, listen, I understand Canada is a completely

1507
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 2: different country than ours. It has a very different legal

1508
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 2: framework that doesn't actually make this all that unusual, and

1509
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 2: the perusal of the law itself is still a dedication

1510
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 2: to quote though equity and broadcasts, racial quota demands, and

1511
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 2: it all just looks very familiar to anyone in the

1512
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 2: United States. Maybe it is a preview of what they

1513
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 2: would wish they could do without First Amendment protections. Furthermore,

1514
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 2: it actually really calls into question shows like ours that

1515
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,839
Speaker 2: actually have and are US based with a sizeable Canadian audience.

1516
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,600
Speaker 2: Will YouTube or Spotify be forced to enforce these regulations

1517
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 2: in the future onto us or face bans of our

1518
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 2: program if the government requires it. There These are not

1519
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 2: simply rhetorical questions. One of the most stunning censorship episodes

1520
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 2: that I have ever seen occur in the entire West was

1521
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 2: just two years ago with respect to the Canadian truckers. Recall,

1522
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 2: before the Russian of invasion of Ukraine. The Canadian response

1523
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 2: to the trucker protest was the biggest story in the world.

1524
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau invoked the never before used Emergencies

1525
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 2: Act in Canada, the outlawed Freedom of Association authorized a

1526
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 2: full blown police crackdown on a lot of these protesters.

1527
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 2: The Canadian government after action report on protests concluded that

1528
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 2: social media itself was the nexus of organizing and would

1529
01:10:36,040 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 2: merit extreme.

1530
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 3: Censorship in the future.

1531
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 2: Updated recommendations to the Canadian government where the Institute disinformation

1532
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 2: guidelines that would allow authorities in the future to even

1533
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 2: thwart organization efforts at the most basic level for any

1534
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 2: movement that they deemed threatening. Of course, has followed even

1535
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 2: other unprecedented actions. The Emergency Act allowed the government to

1536
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 2: even freeze the bank accounts of anyone involved in the protests,

1537
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:02,640
Speaker 2: including seizing incoming donations from organizations like GoFundMe, extended to

1538
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 2: cryptocurrency exchanges for anonymousizations sent in by a bitcoin in

1539
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 2: other currencies. It remains to this day probably one of

1540
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 2: the most Orwellian actions, as I said, by a Western

1541
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,640
Speaker 2: government in modern memory. It's right up there with Australia's

1542
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 2: government's response to COVID, and of course, to head off

1543
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 2: the criticism, I know it's not happening here. I hope

1544
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 2: it never does, but it is a preview of how

1545
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:27,240
Speaker 2: Orwellian censorship can come to be justified explicitly under the

1546
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 2: guise of anti disinformation regimes in the West. Remember that

1547
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 2: here in the US there have already been similar demands

1548
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 2: on podcasting for decades, I mean, largely as a result

1549
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 2: of the COVID pandemic. Especially recently, quote unquote, misinformation is

1550
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: apparently rife on podcasting. That was, according to anti disinformation researchers.

1551
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 2: They faced a real conundrum because podcast is one of

1552
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 2: those last open protocols that exist in wide consumption. We

1553
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 2: simply just published to an RSS feed and it is

1554
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 2: picked up by whichever podcast player you choose. But as

1555
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 2: we all know, the vast majority of people are on

1556
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts and on Spotify. So what do these people

1557
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 2: do and target the companies they won out? Remember during

1558
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 2: that whole Joe Rogan debacle, they slapped all those ridiculous

1559
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 2: COVID warnings on any episode that has to do with

1560
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:09,759
Speaker 2: the topic.

1561
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 3: I guess we'll have it on this one.

1562
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 2: At least they didn't outright ban it, but they certainly

1563
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 2: tried and they barely succeeded. So here in the US,

1564
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,640
Speaker 2: the censorship resim will never look as blatant as it

1565
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 2: does in Canada, but it may just come in honestly

1566
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 2: a worse form. It's by leveraging private monopolies to enforce

1567
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 2: ideological ends. If you think that the financial censorship that

1568
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:30,240
Speaker 2: happened in Canada can't happen here, I mean there are

1569
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,839
Speaker 2: dozens of left and right wing figures in this country

1570
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 2: that have found themselves cut off from the likes of

1571
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,600
Speaker 2: Visa and MasterCard found themselves kicked off platforms like GoFundMe

1572
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 2: or PayPal, Ask Kiwi farms, how it asked out for them?

1573
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 2: How worked out for them? When cloud Fair cut them off,

1574
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 2: they cease to exist on the internet. Try using parlor

1575
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,679
Speaker 2: after Amazon Web Services nuked them post January sixth.

1576
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 3: It could all easily happen here. In some cases it

1577
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 3: already has.

1578
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 2: We have to pay attention because the moment of action

1579
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 2: actually may come much sooner than you think. It was

1580
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 2: interesting to go down this rabbit hole about this crystal,

1581
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 2: what do you take a look at?

1582
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:09,680
Speaker 1: Well, guys, this time the walls actually did close in.

1583
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 1: Trump spent yesterday in the courtroom fighting for his New

1584
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 1: York business life, after already having been found guilty of

1585
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: business fraud in a civil case. Because of that ruling,

1586
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 1: the only question now really for Trump is how severe

1587
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: the punishment will ultimately be and making a mistake.

1588
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 4: He is really fighting hard.

1589
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 1: His defense team announced yesterday that the former president does

1590
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: intend to take the stand to testify in his own defense.

1591
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 1: That's going to be wild. At stake is control of

1592
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: some of his most iconic properties, including Trump Tower itself,

1593
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 1: in a case that cuts the heart of the myth

1594
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 1: of celebrity billionaire Donald J.

1595
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 2: Trump.

1596
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: It all started back in twenty nineteen, when Trump fixer

1597
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 1: Michael Cohen testified to Congress that Trump routinely lied about

1598
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: the values.

1599
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 4: Of his properties and other assets.

1600
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 1: When he's trying to look good for save Forbes magazine,

1601
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 1: or more critically, to prove he had enough collateral to

1602
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:00,759
Speaker 1: scare another loan from a bank, his assets would magically

1603
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 1: skyrocket in value. When he was trying to minimize a

1604
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 1: tax bill, they would instantly deflate. These comments sparked an

1605
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: investigation from New York's Attorney General, Letitia James, under a

1606
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 1: broad statue that gives her the power to investigate business fraud.

1607
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 1: Some of what she found was quite something, even for

1608
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Trump had claimed that his own personal residence

1609
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 1: was thirty thousand square feet. In reality, it is less

1610
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 1: than eleven thousand square feet. This led to an overvaluation

1611
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: of roughly two hundred million dollars. One would think that

1612
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: a real estate developer would know the rough square footage

1613
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 1: of his own home. In another instance, Trump pretended that

1614
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: apartments which were in fact rent stabilized by law, were

1615
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: not in fact rent stabilized by law, leading to their

1616
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 1: value being overstated by roughly seven hundred percent. Another Westchester

1617
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:52,400
Speaker 1: County property was valued by Trump at two hundred and

1618
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 1: sixty one million dollars in spite of the fact that

1619
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 1: it had been appraised four different times at a value

1620
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:01,200
Speaker 1: of thirty million dollars or less. Over ten year period

1621
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,680
Speaker 1: from twenty eleven to twenty twenty one, prosecutors found some

1622
01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:07,719
Speaker 1: twenty three instances of fraud in reporting asset valuations, each

1623
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 1: more or less as brazen as the examples that I

1624
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 1: have just cited.

1625
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 4: Now.

1626
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: Trump defenders and Trump himself have pointed out that in

1627
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 1: the judge's initial finding a fraud, he ruled the mar

1628
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 1: Lagos should have been valued at only eighteen million dollars.

1629
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 1: That amount does seem extremely low, point Trump himself picked

1630
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 1: up on in comments yesterday.

1631
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 4: Just take a listen.

1632
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 11: They have one.

1633
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 13: Property that's worth anywhere from fifty to one hundred times

1634
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 13: what does judge put down is a value? Put down

1635
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 13: a value eighteen million dollars, and the property is probably

1636
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 13: worth could be anywhere from fifty to one hundred times

1637
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 13: more than then, and a lot of those numbers could

1638
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 13: even be low. We have other properties the same things,

1639
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:48,759
Speaker 13: so he devalued everything.

1640
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 1: What he and his defenders failed to mention, however, is

1641
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: that that eighteen million number that actually came from the

1642
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:57,599
Speaker 1: Palm Beach County assessor when determining how much taxes would

1643
01:15:57,600 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 1: be owed on the estate. So which is it the

1644
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 1: low amount that was used for taxes or the more

1645
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: than one billion dollars that Trump is now claiming the

1646
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 1: property is worth. As recently as twenty twenty, Trump's own

1647
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 1: company said that they actually agreed with the Palm Beach

1648
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,639
Speaker 1: County assessment, So he was either lying then or he's

1649
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,480
Speaker 1: lying now. As is the case with all of these instances,

1650
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 1: he picks whatever suits his interest in that present moment.

1651
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:19,680
Speaker 4: Now.

1652
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:21,559
Speaker 1: The defenses from Trump's team in the first phase of

1653
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 1: this trial were a bit of a shit show. They

1654
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 1: tried to argue that none of the banks involved were

1655
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 1: hurt point, which is irrelevant to the case. They also

1656
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 1: tried to argue that a blanket disclaimer rendered all of

1657
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: the financial statements worthless and that they should have been

1658
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: seen as such by any lenders. These arguments were so

1659
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,760
Speaker 1: baseless the judge actually financially sanctioned Trump's lawyers directly for

1660
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: continuing to offer them after they had already unequivocally been

1661
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 1: swatted aside. In aside of the quality of his representation,

1662
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 1: the Trump legal team apparently forgot to check the box

1663
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 1: requesting a jury trial. So Trump is now stuck with

1664
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:54,639
Speaker 1: his fate resting in the hands of a judge who

1665
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,880
Speaker 1: he apparently absolutely hates. But however bad the legal team's

1666
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: arguments were, Trump's own arguments were way worse. He outrageously

1667
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 1: sought to justify the property valuations by claiming he could

1668
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 1: get a Saudi buyer to pay whatever he wanted for

1669
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:12,639
Speaker 1: these properties, so they couldn't possibly have their values inflated,

1670
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,679
Speaker 1: a shocking admission from a former president who already appears

1671
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,680
Speaker 1: to be thoroughly compromised by Saudi money. So none of

1672
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:20,360
Speaker 1: that worked out for Trump in the first phase of

1673
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: this trial. Now the question is just how big the

1674
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 1: sanctions on Trump are going to be. Letitia James is

1675
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 1: seeking two hundred and fifty million dollars to reflect her

1676
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 1: estimate of the gain he achieved through this fraud, and

1677
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:33,480
Speaker 1: amount large enough to cause real financial hardship and potentially

1678
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 1: force even the sale of some assets. Already, Trump and

1679
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 1: his sons have had their new York business licenses revoked,

1680
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: which will make it difficult, if not impossible, to continue

1681
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 1: running the New York real estate empire, a dagger to

1682
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 1: the heart of Trump's whole business identity. Now, Trump says

1683
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 1: this is all political, and to be honest with Younes

1684
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 1: Sensi's right, before he ran for president, he was basically

1685
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:56,959
Speaker 1: granted the blanket immunity that elites typically receive an American society.

1686
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:00,400
Speaker 1: They can brazenly lie, cheat, and steal with few, if

1687
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 1: any consequences as long as they're part of the club.

1688
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 1: Remind me again just how many bankers were jailed for

1689
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 1: destroying the global economy. Now Trump has lost this elite

1690
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:11,160
Speaker 1: protection card, and his facing the sort of scrutiny and yes,

1691
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 1: consequences that you or I might expect to face. In

1692
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: other words, the problem here isn't that Trump is being

1693
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: sued now, is that he got away with so much

1694
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 1: for so long, just like so many other elites. And

1695
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 1: is that so many other wealthy people get away with

1696
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 1: the same and worse every single day. For all the

1697
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 1: understandable focus on Trump's many criminal indictments, this civil trial

1698
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,479
Speaker 1: it really cuts more closely to the heart of Trump's

1699
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 1: public brand and his business. How much of the Trump

1700
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 1: reality show was reality, how much was just a show,

1701
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 1: a wildly successful branding exercise that helped launch him into

1702
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: the highest office in the land. It's also the first

1703
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 1: time that any of the attempts to sanction Trump's through

1704
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: impeachment or the legal system have really had teeth. The

1705
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:55,440
Speaker 1: first real blow to be teflon Don Vanier, the first indication,

1706
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,639
Speaker 1: as I said, that the walls are kind of for real,

1707
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 1: closing in the first sign that his seeming invincibility maybe

1708
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,639
Speaker 1: as much of a mirage as his thirty thousand square

1709
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 1: foot Trump Tower apartment. And that's why, really this really

1710
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:14,759
Speaker 1: snuck up on me. So as we tease, we're excited

1711
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 1: to be joined in studio by Congress and Rocanna of

1712
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 1: California and jam packed week here in DC, and also

1713
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 1: a lot going on in your home state.

1714
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 4: So great to have you here.

1715
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:23,880
Speaker 10: So what was good to be on?

1716
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is your understanding of what is even happening

1717
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:29,520
Speaker 1: today with regards to Kevin McCarthy in his speakership.

1718
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:32,759
Speaker 10: Well, right after this, I go to a caucus meeting

1719
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 10: where we're going to decide. I'll tell you the sentiment

1720
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 10: from the Democrats, at least in the Progressive caucus. Yeah,

1721
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:42,680
Speaker 10: this is a Republican issue, a Republican mess. Let them

1722
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 10: figure it out, don't bail McCarthy out. But we're going

1723
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 10: to discuss it as a caucus and then come through

1724
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 10: a decision.

1725
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,600
Speaker 2: What about you personally, is there any scenario where you

1726
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 2: could see yourself voting for Kevin McCarthy, Like, what would

1727
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 2: you have to get from Kevin McCarthy in order to

1728
01:19:57,479 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 2: vote in order to save his speakership.

1729
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:00,680
Speaker 10: Well, first of all, I don't think anyone's actually going

1730
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:02,799
Speaker 10: to have to vote from the question would you vote

1731
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:07,440
Speaker 10: to table the motion? It would have to be an

1732
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:11,760
Speaker 10: appeal from leadership and the progressive leadership to say, look,

1733
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 10: we've gotten enough concessions. I don't want to speculate on

1734
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:19,000
Speaker 10: what those concessions would have to be, but it would

1735
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 10: probably have to be a very high bar for that

1736
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 10: to happen.

1737
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 1: Okay, And so you said your sense is the Progressive

1738
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:28,320
Speaker 1: Caucus basically has a similar view as you do. Do

1739
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 1: you have a sense of the rest of the ideological

1740
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 1: spectrum of the caucus. Are they feeling more interested in

1741
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 1: a deal, more interested in bailing amount? Do you have

1742
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:36,600
Speaker 1: any sense of that.

1743
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:41,719
Speaker 10: You know, surprisingly, it's been pretty uniform among blue dogs,

1744
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 10: among problem solvers, among progressives that this is a Republican mess.

1745
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 10: Let them figure it out. We'll see how much unanimity

1746
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 10: there is in the caucus. But if the caucus is

1747
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,680
Speaker 10: unanimous that we're not going to bail them out, McCarthy's

1748
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 10: really got a challenge it. At the very least, we'll

1749
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:03,200
Speaker 10: have to come to Hakeem and our progressive Qualcus and

1750
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 10: others and make certain concessions.

1751
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 1: Actually, okay, let's move on to California, because there's also

1752
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 1: a lot going on there. Governor Gavin Newsom making his

1753
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:15,599
Speaker 1: announcement of his choice to fill Diane Feinstein's seat put.

1754
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 4: Actually G three up on the screen.

1755
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 1: Here, guys, we have a Lafonda Butler has been chosen.

1756
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 1: She's a former labor leader Seiu. But then following that term,

1757
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,360
Speaker 1: she went and advised Uber on their quote unquote labor

1758
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 1: relations as there was a bill or was it a

1759
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:35,000
Speaker 1: bill or a ballot initiative to attempt to make sure

1760
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 1: that Uber drivers were classified as employees and not contractors.

1761
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 1: She also was a lobbyist for Airbnb, so a lot

1762
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 1: of question marks about why she was chosen instead of

1763
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 1: the woman who you are backing, Congressman Barbara Lee.

1764
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:50,400
Speaker 4: What is your reaction to this selection?

1765
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 10: Barbara Lee would have been the better choice. I mean,

1766
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:57,760
Speaker 10: she was out there campaigning, she's been a progressive. Originally

1767
01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 10: the governor said, well, we can't pick Barbara Lee because

1768
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:05,599
Speaker 10: she's still running, but now he said the person can run.

1769
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 10: So it was a source of a lot of disappointment

1770
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 10: to progressive Look, I think Senator Designatet Butler as an

1771
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 10: inspiring life story and I don't want to say anything

1772
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:21,560
Speaker 10: negative about her and her work on LGBTQ equality in

1773
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:24,880
Speaker 10: women's rights. But it came as a surprise and a

1774
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:28,640
Speaker 10: blow to a lot of people in the CBC Congressional

1775
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 10: black Hawk is progressive community, who thought, why not Barbara Lee?

1776
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:34,599
Speaker 10: What's wrong with Barbara Lee? Why does Barbara Lee seem

1777
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 10: to keep getting passed over? She was passed over in

1778
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 10: house leadership, She's now been passed over on the Senate seat.

1779
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,800
Speaker 10: Something is obviously some people in the party obviously don't

1780
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 10: like her.

1781
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 4: Why do you think that is?

1782
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 10: Probably are progressive politics. I mean, look, she's been someone

1783
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:51,799
Speaker 10: who's stood up against endless war. She was the only

1784
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 10: person to say, don't give George Bush a blank check

1785
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:59,799
Speaker 10: to Afghanistan. She's willing to call out corporations in power,

1786
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 10: she takes progressive positions that upset the donor class. She

1787
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:07,519
Speaker 10: doesn't have a lot of friends amongst the donor class

1788
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,520
Speaker 10: around the country. So I don't think it's coincidence.

1789
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:12,599
Speaker 2: And so you know, with Gavin Neuwsman, he's been making

1790
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 2: a lot of headlines. He showed up to the he

1791
01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 2: showed up to the Republican debate. He clearly isn't enjoying himself.

1792
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 2: But behind the scenes, we've been covering some of this.

1793
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:20,760
Speaker 2: If we can go and put this up there on

1794
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 2: the screen, in terms of vetoing certain legislation and making

1795
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 2: certain actions you could see here vetoing unemployment, pay for

1796
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 2: striking workers and protections for domestic employees. What do you

1797
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 2: see this as a pattern, you know, in terms of

1798
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:36,640
Speaker 2: both the selection pick, rejecting barbar Lee and also some

1799
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:38,720
Speaker 2: of his more recent actions that have not been in

1800
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 2: front of Sean Hannity on the camera.

1801
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 10: Well, I'm surprised because this is not the nineteen nineties

1802
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 10: Democratic Party. And you look at three key bills on

1803
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:53,680
Speaker 10: economic fairness. One he vetoed giving people who are striking

1804
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:57,760
Speaker 10: unemployment benefits. Now New York and New Jersey have these

1805
01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 10: provisions that if you go on strike, you can get

1806
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 10: unemployment benefits. It makes no sense, especially when you have

1807
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 10: the writers' strike in your own state, and this is

1808
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 10: why the bill is being brought. Second, and this one

1809
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 10: was particularly concerning to me. He said that domestic workers

1810
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 10: should not be able to get basic safety protections because

1811
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 10: they work in people's homes as opposed to businesses. Well,

1812
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:20,880
Speaker 10: if you look at the history of the New Deal,

1813
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 10: FDR excluded domestic workers because of race, and many of

1814
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:28,960
Speaker 10: the people who are domestic workers in California are women

1815
01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:31,639
Speaker 10: or women of color. Of course they should have basic

1816
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 10: safety Just because they work for a person as a

1817
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 10: nanny or as a homecare worker doesn't mean they shouldn't

1818
01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:40,519
Speaker 10: have safety standards. And then he upset all of the

1819
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:45,600
Speaker 10: teamsters by saying that you shouldn't have a human operator

1820
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 10: on a truck over ten thousand pounds. As a Silicon

1821
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:51,800
Speaker 10: Valley guy, I'm saying, have a human operator. You want

1822
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 10: to have a person to make sure in these conditions

1823
01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:58,799
Speaker 10: that someone can be safe. So I don't understand why

1824
01:24:58,880 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 10: in the monon Democratic part where even President Biden is

1825
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:06,280
Speaker 10: moving towards labor. You'd want to hurt labor on three

1826
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 10: seminal issues. And it's not just me. The leader of

1827
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:13,160
Speaker 10: the California Labor Fed has spoken out about this, and

1828
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:14,599
Speaker 10: a lot of the unions are upset.

1829
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:17,599
Speaker 1: I mean to me, sometimes he seems his action seem

1830
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 1: very perplexing because on the one hand, he also just

1831
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 1: signed a great piece of legislation that will make sure

1832
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:24,639
Speaker 1: all fast food workers in the state of California earned

1833
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:25,559
Speaker 1: twenty dollars an hour.

1834
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:26,800
Speaker 4: And so when I.

1835
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,680
Speaker 1: Look at the pattern, I can't help but see what

1836
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 1: are the two key donor groups in the state of California,

1837
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:37,400
Speaker 1: and really within the Democratic Party overall, Silicon Valley and Hollywood. Well,

1838
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 1: the truck bill, obviously, Silicon Valley didn't like that one.

1839
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:45,400
Speaker 1: And then in terms of unemployment pay for striking workers, Hollywood,

1840
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:46,560
Speaker 1: you've still got actors.

1841
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 4: Out on strike. They very much didn't like that one.

1842
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:50,920
Speaker 1: So it seems to me, as he's positioning himself for

1843
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:53,760
Speaker 1: a presidential run, he doesn't want to get crosswise with

1844
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 1: the donor class in two key industries for the Democratic

1845
01:25:57,439 --> 01:25:59,480
Speaker 1: Party and for his aspirations personally.

1846
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 10: Look represents slican reality. I've gotten support from tech leaders,

1847
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:04,880
Speaker 10: but at the end of the day, you have to

1848
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 10: pick whose side you're on, and on this case, yeah,

1849
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:10,839
Speaker 10: I got a lot of calls from tech folks upset,

1850
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 10: why are you supporting AB three sixteen? Why are you

1851
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:16,920
Speaker 10: supporting the teamsters? And the reason is I don't want

1852
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 10: unethical development of AI with no concern for the human costs,

1853
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:29,200
Speaker 10: for safety, for jobs. And so the governor has to

1854
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,120
Speaker 10: pick is he on the side of working families or

1855
01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:32,439
Speaker 10: is he the side of donors?

1856
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so from California obviously is a lot of turmoil.

1857
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:36,960
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, with the politics right now, and

1858
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 2: now we have this new appointment seat, I believe that

1859
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 2: the rules have been made so that she can then

1860
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 2: run for that seat A twenty twenty four. Do you

1861
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:46,560
Speaker 2: still believe that there will be a competitive primary? Do

1862
01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 2: you intend in like working with this or is this

1863
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:49,679
Speaker 2: kind of the appointment?

1864
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 4: Is this?

1865
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:50,240
Speaker 1: It?

1866
01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:52,320
Speaker 2: Is this the end of that primary process?

1867
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:54,680
Speaker 10: Now I'm still for Barbara Lee, and Barbara Lee is

1868
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 10: still running. I mean, it's unclear whether Senator dosing that

1869
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 10: Butler will run or not. We're waiting to hear the governor.

1870
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 10: I mean, anyone can run. The government can't restrict of course,

1871
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:07,519
Speaker 10: then for running. Originally he said that would be a condition.

1872
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:11,360
Speaker 10: He removed that condition. Some people suggest that that means

1873
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,759
Speaker 10: that she's going to run, but we have no idea.

1874
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:15,719
Speaker 10: We're waiting to hear. But I'm going to be for

1875
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 10: Barbara Lea, I mean because of her values, because of

1876
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:20,639
Speaker 10: her support for Medicare for all, which is another thing,

1877
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 10: by the way, in the state of California, I mean,

1878
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 10: the governor had campaigned on cal Care. We should get

1879
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:29,160
Speaker 10: single pair. We've got super majorities in that state, and

1880
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:31,519
Speaker 10: we didn't get it last time, osh Chlora's bill. I'm

1881
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:33,880
Speaker 10: going to be out there pushing for cal Care single

1882
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 10: pair this time.

1883
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:35,559
Speaker 4: Gotcha?

1884
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 1: And what's your assessment of the last question on this one?

1885
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 1: Because I know you've got to get to that caucus meeting.

1886
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,880
Speaker 1: We don't want to hold you up. But with Governor news,

1887
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:45,840
Speaker 1: I mean, his ambitions are quite clear. You know, he

1888
01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 1: said he won't run against buy and he won't run

1889
01:27:48,040 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 1: against Kamala even if something were to happen this time around.

1890
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 4: But clearly this man is angling right.

1891
01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Do you think he's even making the right political choices

1892
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:58,840
Speaker 1: in terms of betoying some of these bills, like putting

1893
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:01,760
Speaker 1: our values aside, and how you should stand on the

1894
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: side of labor even when it's politically inconvenient. It seems

1895
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: to me like on a fundamental level, when you have

1896
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:10,599
Speaker 1: support for unions, support for labor, support for these striking

1897
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:14,719
Speaker 1: workers at historic highs, that he's really misreading the mood

1898
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:19,639
Speaker 1: and the political moment to sign repeatedly veto legislation that

1899
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 1: is on the side of labor and on the side

1900
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 1: of workers.

1901
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 4: What's your view of that.

1902
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:25,559
Speaker 10: It's perplexing. I think he came up in the nineteen

1903
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:28,480
Speaker 10: nineties and so he still has the sort of triangulation,

1904
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:30,720
Speaker 10: not all of politics, and I see the order this

1905
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:34,879
Speaker 10: type of you for governor. I supported him in the recall,

1906
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 10: so I've been an ally of hisits.

1907
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 3: But it's perplexing to.

1908
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 10: Me that he's so good on reproductive rights, he's good

1909
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 10: on LGBDQ issues, but on economic issues of economic fairness,

1910
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 10: of taking the side of working families and calling for

1911
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 10: a tax cut for the rich, we haven't been doing that.

1912
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:59,080
Speaker 10: Making sure you're actually supporting single pair which you ran

1913
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:01,400
Speaker 10: on in team. Has it been able to do that

1914
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 10: making sure you're with the labor unions and labor and

1915
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 10: working class people. This is a Bernie Standers state that

1916
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 10: Sanders carried. It's a progressive state, and it's not a

1917
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 10: state of sort of triangulation nineteen nineties economic policy. So

1918
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 10: that is I would say the same thing to him

1919
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:20,880
Speaker 10: if he called me up. And of course I had

1920
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:23,400
Speaker 10: made the case directly to him for Barbara Leeve very

1921
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:28,120
Speaker 10: strongly and was quite direct. It's just we come from

1922
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:31,120
Speaker 10: a different perspective, and this is the future debate in

1923
01:29:31,160 --> 01:29:34,200
Speaker 10: the party. Are we moving more towards the Warren Sanders

1924
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:37,240
Speaker 10: economic populism wing or are we stuck in the nineteen

1925
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:40,840
Speaker 10: nineties economic framework. I actually think President Biden is moving

1926
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:42,240
Speaker 10: more towards the Bernie Warren wing.

1927
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:45,559
Speaker 1: I think in terms of labor, he's taken some extraordinary actions.

1928
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 1: There's just no doubt about it at this point.

1929
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be certainly interesting. I know you

1930
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 2: got to get your vote, so we won't hold you up.

1931
01:29:50,040 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 2: Appreciate joining you, sir, Thank you, thank you.

1932
01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:03,480
Speaker 10: It include