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Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Moody. We are your

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and Patrick. It

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Speaker 1: was a massive sports night in Chicago Saturday night. Just

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Speaker 1: an insane Bears victory, a comeback that I don't think

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Speaker 1: many expected while watching that game, holding out hope and

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Speaker 1: praying for it. I know I was excited while watching that,

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Speaker 1: sitting there on my couch, really enjoying the game with

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Speaker 1: my son, hoping for that comeback. And I see the

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Speaker 1: news Alex Bregman to the Cubs. Obviously nearly derailed my evening,

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Speaker 1: but thanks to you ticking over and writing so I

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Speaker 1: could enjoy the Bear the rest of the Bear's game

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Speaker 1: and have some on that night. But just a huge

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Speaker 1: move for the Cubs, kind of the biggest signing since,

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Speaker 1: you know, since Stansby Swanson, but also maybe the most

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Speaker 1: unexpected one in a sense since like when they signed Darvish.

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Speaker 1: Really being aggressive and free agency. Now, It's what we

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Speaker 1: talked about at the end of last episode of Stop

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Speaker 1: with these half measures, These these good, not great off seasons.

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Speaker 1: They they had a pathway to a great off season.

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Speaker 1: There was a path to it, and they nailed it.

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Speaker 1: They got it. This is outside of you know, grabbing

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Speaker 1: an established stud closer to kind of top this off,

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Speaker 1: which is something that maybe they could do with the deadline.

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Speaker 1: This has been a great off season. You gotta win.

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Speaker 1: You gotta go perform. Off seasons don't win you championships.

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Speaker 1: But this is what they wanted to do and they

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Speaker 1: pulled it off. You've got to get props to all

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Speaker 1: aspects business side for being finally willing to spend a

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Speaker 1: little to first some money and Jed Hoyer in the

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Speaker 1: front office really taking care of business here.

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Speaker 2: I think the unexpected element here was just the timing

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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: I think we both thought.

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Speaker 2: If Bregman fell to the Cubs, it would have been

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Speaker 2: one of those sort of spring training type deals, or

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Speaker 2: that the staring contest would go on much longer until

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Speaker 2: finally one side blinked. And for it to come together

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Speaker 2: in this manner, it's kind of staggering. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: was just a delirious Saturday.

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Speaker 1: Night for Bears fans. You could feel the energy.

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Speaker 2: In the city of just people walking around in Bears gear.

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Speaker 2: You know, got their cases, a beer, walking over to friends'

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Speaker 2: houses of just like this was a massive event. And

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Speaker 2: then for in the middle of it to have the

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Speaker 2: Bregman signing drop was good, good stage craft. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure exactly who gets credit for that, but look, this

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Speaker 2: is a reminder that the Cubs can be a big

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Speaker 2: market force when they choose to. And this was the guy.

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Speaker 2: That's how I led my piece Saturday night. I guess

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Speaker 2: it technically published maybe some morning, but and that's why

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Speaker 2: I jumped on it because I had this anecdote in

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Speaker 2: the back of my head of last year, Cubs win

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Speaker 2: a game early in the season. I'm sort of minding

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Speaker 2: my own business, and I can't remember which game it

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Speaker 2: was or the circumstance, but it was an entertaining It

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Speaker 2: might have been a comeback win or something. There was

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Speaker 2: a lot of positivity in that clubhouse. A player just

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Speaker 2: kind of broke my train of thought was saying something

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Speaker 2: along the lines of imagine how good this team would

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Speaker 2: be with Alex Bregman, like they had not gotten over it.

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Speaker 2: I and Jed Hoyer gave probably his most candid, slash

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Speaker 2: passive aggressive press conference in regards to finances after Bregman

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Speaker 2: chose the Red Sox like this gnawed at the Cubs

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Speaker 2: and even when we reported earlier this offseason, it's kind

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Speaker 2: of all blending together now. But when we said renewed

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Speaker 2: interest in Alex Bregman, we kind of had to, you know,

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Speaker 2: really be careful with that information. We wanted to hear

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Speaker 2: it from multiple different places, which we did, but even

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Speaker 2: we were just kind of like, all right, what are

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Speaker 2: they gonna like finish third again? Like are they gonna

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Speaker 2: be so rational that they're gonna finish third?

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Speaker 1: For Bregman?

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Speaker 2: And he becomes this, you know, kind of caricature for

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Speaker 2: Cubs fans, and you know, they stepped up in a

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Speaker 2: major way because he fits and as you and I

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Speaker 2: have discussed, he's one of those rare players who like

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Speaker 2: the projection models really value and people with more old

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Speaker 2: school sensibilities who recognize in tangibles also really love.

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Speaker 1: The player too. Yeah, there's a lot to like about

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Speaker 1: this move. I want to get into some of that

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Speaker 1: in a second. But what you said about like this

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Speaker 1: surprise is when it happened, like how it happened. You're

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Speaker 1: right that I was thinking about that when last night,

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Speaker 1: how if this was going to happen. We thought, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the Red Sox end up signing Bishett, and the Blue

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Speaker 1: Jays get Tucker, and the Diamondbacks have kept Marte and

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Speaker 1: Boris is searching for or a home come February eighth,

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Speaker 1: and and the Cubs are like, here's your opt out

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Speaker 1: layden deal you know, will give you a big you know,

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Speaker 1: a v opt outs, all this stuff whatever, whatever it

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Speaker 1: may be, but it it was. It was not they

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Speaker 1: flexed their financial might and outbid the competition and did

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Speaker 1: something that we've been on them for years now not doing.

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Speaker 1: They finally did it. Now. Don't expect this. I don't

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Speaker 1: expect this to be like a trend where they're there,

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Speaker 1: they signed Jason Hayward or they sign what John Lester,

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Speaker 1: Jason Hayward. You know, you Darvish like have these big

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Speaker 1: money expenditures almost every off season. You know, it'd be

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Speaker 1: nice to see that. We don't know what the CBA

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Speaker 1: looks like, you know, a year from now, so so

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Speaker 1: I guess it's it's hard for me to really, uh

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Speaker 1: forecast what spending looks like for anyone. But it was

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Speaker 1: nice to see them be aggressive like this. It was

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Speaker 1: nice to see them not wait for you know, the

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Speaker 1: player that they have targeted, that they have zeroed in on.

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Speaker 1: You're right, all. I mean, how many comments did we

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Speaker 1: get during spring training? Through like that first month, month

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Speaker 1: and a half, people still brought it up. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: just like that one incident of you running into a

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Speaker 1: guy in the clubhouse, Like we heard people grumbling about it,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, exactly, it's stuck in their craw you know.

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Speaker 1: It just felt like the right move last year, and

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Speaker 1: it and I and when we talk about fit, I

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Speaker 1: think some people from the outside that don't follow this

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Speaker 1: team or or think the whole is right field. Look,

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Speaker 1: you're right, like this is the perfect mix of all

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Speaker 1: the different attributes of what goes into you know, analysis

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Speaker 1: and evaluate talent evaluation because their projection systems do like

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Speaker 1: how he's going to age there. I've seen some talk about,

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Speaker 1: oh didn't the Cubs learn their lesson from esak Paritis,

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Speaker 1: Like this is a pull hitter. I've tried to explain this. Look,

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Speaker 1: he is not a dead pull hitter. The wind impacts

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Speaker 1: lefties more than righty's At Wrigley, he goes to the gap,

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Speaker 1: that left center gap a lot. Is he going to

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Speaker 1: hit forty five home runs. I don't think he's a

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Speaker 1: forty home run hitter. I don't know if he's ever

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Speaker 1: done that, but he's you know, he's he's going to slug,

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Speaker 1: he's going to play elite defense. And then you talk

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Speaker 1: about the intangibles. Look, Justin Turner was great in that

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Speaker 1: clubhouse last year. I think I think you couldn't talk

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Speaker 1: to someone in that clubhouse, especially of the position player side,

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Speaker 1: who didn't seem to have an affinity for him. He

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Speaker 1: really seemed to be able to get through to the

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Speaker 1: young players especially. He was just fine on offense. He

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Speaker 1: was a role player who could hit lefties. That was

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Speaker 1: his role, and you'd be in there against lefties, pinchhit

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Speaker 1: on occasion, had that one big hit. Really wasn't impacting

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Speaker 1: the team overall, you know, on a daily basis on

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Speaker 1: the field, great guy off the field for as far

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Speaker 1: as impact goes for that team. I think Bregman can

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Speaker 1: be both. Bregman's that right handed hitter. Bregman's an elite

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Speaker 1: glove at third base. Bregman can you know, give you

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Speaker 1: one twenty to one thirty way to runs great at

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Speaker 1: plus that's that's not MVP level that's really good though,

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Speaker 1: that's impactful, and and then you're talking about him. I

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Speaker 1: believe it was Jen McCaffrey right that wrote a story

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Speaker 1: about Bregman's impact on the young players in Boston, and

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Speaker 1: Boston is similarly built in the sense that like just

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Speaker 1: stacked with young talent, kind of like the Cubs, a

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Speaker 1: bunch of young players that they expect to be a

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Speaker 1: huge part of this organization. If this team's gonna win

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Speaker 1: a lot of games beyond twenty twenty six, these young

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Speaker 1: guys have to continue to develop. And he seems to

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Speaker 1: have this ability to get through to these kids and

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Speaker 1: be like a coach on the field and really take

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Speaker 1: them under his wing. And he sees the game the

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Speaker 1: way that allows him to kind of, you know, give

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Speaker 1: them lessons that impact them. You know, you can say stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's it's easy. I mean, we're both dads. We can

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Speaker 1: talk to our kids and try and impart wisdom. If

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Speaker 1: you don't get it across the right way, it just

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Speaker 1: goes right over their heads or one ear out the other,

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Speaker 1: you know, like to be able to actually get through

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Speaker 1: to them, I think it's like they respect him. They

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Speaker 1: already talking to some players even before the signing happened,

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Speaker 1: they'd heard how much of an impact this guy is

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Speaker 1: in the clubhouse. They know it wasn't like we'll see.

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Speaker 1: They understand this guy can have an impact in the clubhouse.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's rarer than and then we give

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Speaker 1: it credit for like, that's not something that's easy to find,

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Speaker 1: especially the guys that do it all, that do it

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Speaker 1: on the field and can really make an impact off.

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Speaker 2: Those are kind of unicorns. And that's a front office

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Speaker 2: word term to describe those types of players. And Bregman

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Speaker 2: hit forty one home runs back in twenty nineteen, runner

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Speaker 2: up finished in the MVP voting. Obviously he has not

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Speaker 2: kind of scaled those heights again individually, but you look

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Speaker 2: at the overall resume of the year to year consistency,

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Speaker 2: just that solid floor that he has as a player,

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Speaker 2: And I think that was part of the frustration last

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Speaker 2: year when he picked the Red Sox after the Cubs

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Speaker 2: made a very underwhelming, half hearted offer that was very

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Speaker 2: easy to turn down. I mean the Cubs were not

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Speaker 2: the offer the most year, the most guaranteed money, the

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Speaker 2: best opt out situation, the highest overall number, Like they

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Speaker 2: were not close. And I think from an our organizational perspective,

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Speaker 2: there was a sense of like, what did we just

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Speaker 2: go through this rebuild? For it was when you trade

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Speaker 2: away those twenty sixteen World Series legends and you kind

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Speaker 2: of get your budget or your your your books in

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Speaker 2: a really clean place. When you graduate some young talent

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Speaker 2: to the majors, when you have a like a solid

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Speaker 2: pitching infrastructure in place, and the guy checks so many

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Speaker 2: boxes for you, why not go in then? And that's

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Speaker 2: kind of a a whole separate thing, you know, once

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Speaker 2: kind of the dust settles here of you know, not

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Speaker 2: trading for Cabrera at last year's trade deadline and not

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Speaker 2: signing Bregman in uh spring training, Like what changed? I

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Speaker 2: think that we we know, you know, bits and pieces here,

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Speaker 2: We have a general understanding of that, but I am

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Speaker 2: curious of like, you know, why now? And part of that,

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Speaker 2: i'd imagine is like there is proof of concept here

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Speaker 2: that the Cubs delivered ninety plus wins. They hosted two

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Speaker 2: playoff rounds at Wrigley Field and watch it. I know,

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Speaker 2: we don't want to draw too many conclusions from short

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Speaker 2: playoff series, but the Cubs were you know, short at

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Speaker 2: least one starting pitcher and at least one hitter. You know,

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Speaker 2: you know Matt Shaw, you know, looked a little overmatched there.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean he will if he gets back to

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Speaker 2: the playoffs, but like a proven, postseason tested clutch hitter

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Speaker 2: is what the Cubs are getting here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just looking at you know, stat cast

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Speaker 1: shows expected home runs by park. This isn't a perfect science,

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Speaker 1: but last year he had eighteen home runs if all

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Speaker 1: his games were at Wrigley according to this when plays

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Speaker 1: a factor. I understand that you can't. This doesn't work perfectly,

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Speaker 1: but it had him at nineteen for Regley eighteen if

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Speaker 1: he was at what is it called. I always forget

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Speaker 1: Dacon last year, So I mean, you look back at this,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at his numbers daycon versus Wrigley. Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: are times when it's obviously better in Houston, but this

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Speaker 1: isn't some huge difference. He's just not that extreme of

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Speaker 1: a poll hitter. I think like when people are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about this, there are going to be people

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Speaker 1: that suggest that this isn't that this is a bad signing.

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Speaker 1: Because of that, I really disagree with it, and I

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Speaker 1: just don't think it's esoc paratus. It just don't think

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Speaker 1: it's it's similar. It is interesting what change when you

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Speaker 1: talk about what changed, Like suddenly they're deferring money like

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Speaker 1: all this stuff like that's that's a huge factor here.

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Speaker 1: I think too. So they are according to Roster Resource.

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Speaker 1: I was looking at this earlier. I want to say,

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Speaker 1: they're at like two forty three in change according to

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Speaker 1: Roster Resource. That's with the deferred money. I believe they

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Speaker 1: have that in the in their numbers. Now, these public

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Speaker 1: numbers from our understanding are usually they're like two forty

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Speaker 1: three and one hundred and thirty five K. So that

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Speaker 1: that's that's just below the first threshold. What that means

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Speaker 1: going forward? Are they looking to shed payroll? I you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can go and make this type

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Speaker 1: of move and then say we need to trade Nico Horner.

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Speaker 1: I think that's insane. We can talk about that more

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Speaker 1: in another episode, but I just think that's insane. Just

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Speaker 1: you cannot do that if you're if you're moving Matt shaw, Ah,

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Speaker 1: it has to be for like some either you're getting

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Speaker 1: another stud starting pitcher like, it has to be for impact.

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Speaker 1: It's either like top prospects and you're replenishing your farm

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Speaker 1: or you're or you know, like impact players, like an

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Speaker 1: impact guy veteran like I don't know, like a deal

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Speaker 1: to get Trek's schooble or something like that. I like,

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Speaker 1: I know that's ridiculous and it won't and it won't happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, you don't like you only when

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Speaker 1: it comes I got it. You just you you don't

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Speaker 1: do it like he's just so valuable. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's you know, Carter and Jed, we're both saying that

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Speaker 1: as at the Winter Meetings, I believe it was was

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Speaker 1: a Winter GM whatever it was, they that's what they

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Speaker 1: were saying when talking about Matt Shaw. There were a

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Speaker 1: lot of questions about Matt Shaw. Uh, you know, this building,

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Speaker 1: what they've built is you know, if they if they

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Speaker 1: had signed Dylan Ceese, I don't think we'd be talking

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Speaker 1: about Alex Bregman. Right now. They they did. They they

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Speaker 1: found this this path it had to They had to

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Speaker 1: get starting pitching. That was the focus. You're right when

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Speaker 1: when we look back at the playoffs, Yes, there were

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Speaker 1: moments where that clutch hit wasn't didn't come, especially in

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Speaker 1: that final game. Uh, it really felt like did the

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Speaker 1: offense let them down in that game. I think you're

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Speaker 1: you're probably not in a Game five if you have

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Speaker 1: the right start, if you have starting pitching depth and

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Speaker 1: you're not forcing Matt Boyd, Matthew Boyd to pitch on

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Speaker 1: short rest, you're not just stuck. Look, I think showed

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Speaker 1: him and Aga, I agree with you. He's gonna have

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Speaker 1: a bounce back season. I don't know how great it's

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Speaker 1: going to be, but it's not going to be bad

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Speaker 1: like we saw the final whatever month and the postseason.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that. But he wasn't right and they

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Speaker 1: kind of I think they knew it and they just

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Speaker 1: kind of felt there there. You know, their hand was

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Speaker 1: being forced here and they had to put him out

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Speaker 1: there and it didn't work. It didn't look right. I

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Speaker 1: think if they had more starting pitching depth, that series

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Speaker 1: could look very different. So you had to go out

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Speaker 1: and get a starter. But if you spend on it,

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Speaker 1: even if it was a my, we wouldn't be talking

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Speaker 1: about Alex Bregman right now. They they found the path

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Speaker 1: to get this guy they've been enamored with in Bregman.

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Speaker 1: For all the reasons we've said, both on and off

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Speaker 1: the field, all that stuff. It really has done something

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Speaker 1: to this front office where they they were infatuated with them,

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Speaker 1: and they got a picture that they were infatuated with

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Speaker 1: in Cabrera, and they pulled off and got this position

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Speaker 1: player that's gonna lead this team on and off the field.

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Speaker 1: I didn't expect it to happen. I didn't think they

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Speaker 1: would pull it off. So I got to give them

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Speaker 1: props for that, because they, like I just did not

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Speaker 1: see them behaving in this manner. And and you don't,

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Speaker 1: you just you don't take the foot off the accelerator

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Speaker 1: when you do something like this. Trading Niko Horner would

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Speaker 1: be just a deflating feeling for this group. You know,

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Speaker 1: just keep your debt, make this a damn good team

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Speaker 1: all around, and go and try and win a World series.

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Speaker 1: That's the point of this all. It's not to like

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Speaker 1: maneuver around the luxury text and how much money can

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Speaker 1: we save and you know, let's save a couple million dollars. No,

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Speaker 1: be aggressive at the deadline, set yourself up to go

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Speaker 1: get a closer and go dominate and go win a

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Speaker 1: World series. I think that's that's how they That needs

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Speaker 1: to be the mentality of not just the players and

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Speaker 1: the coaching staff and the front office, but the business

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Speaker 1: side as well. Just go do it. You've done it.

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Speaker 1: This has been a really impressive offseason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I don't think the Cubs exactly cave

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Speaker 2: to public pressure here, but the timing is very interesting

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Speaker 2: leading into Cups convention this.

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Speaker 1: Week, that it won't be an airing.

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Speaker 2: Of grievances that you get Bregman in the fold. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you get that controllable starting pitcher that we've been talking

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Speaker 2: about and asking about for years now.

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Speaker 1: The bullpen has been rebuilt.

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Speaker 2: Uh, you have Piko Armstrongs just everywhere all over the city,

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Speaker 2: you know, like yeah, it's you know, like.

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Speaker 1: He uh, the bars with random Gubbs fans I've been

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Speaker 1: seeing all like having fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got They've got there, They've got their star

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Speaker 2: and so you know, I think obviously the games are

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Speaker 2: not played on paper or on computers. Cabrera's arm could

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Speaker 2: blow out, Bregman could fall off a cliff when he

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Speaker 2: gets uh you know into his you know, early to

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Speaker 2: mid thirties here, or as he's in his early thirties,

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Speaker 2: the bullpen maybe they run out of that sort of magic. Uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, this coming year, but I don't know. By

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Speaker 2: and large, when when you look at the all the

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Speaker 2: various paths that they could have gotten down here, I

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Speaker 2: think this is pretty close to what their ideal was,

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Speaker 2: both just kind of philosophically and also just kind of

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Speaker 2: reacting to the marketplace, and also the moment that everyone

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Speaker 2: could feel if they were at Wrigley Field last October.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a great point, Like the way it

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Speaker 1: felt in that ballpark. I hope you know you You

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Speaker 1: and I both said like, don't don't forget that feeling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, don't take it.

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Speaker 1: So, yeah, don't take it for granted. We don't know

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Speaker 1: when it'll happen again. I feel like this front office

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Speaker 1: acted that way. It was a weird start. You and

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Speaker 1: I both heard rumblings of like, hey, they're acting differently,

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Speaker 1: and then for months we're like, shoot, we're wrong, Like

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Speaker 1: we're those people wrong.

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Speaker 2: Well we call them like a team to watch at

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Speaker 2: the winter meetings and yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it just took a little while, and I guess

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Speaker 1: the the reality was, it really feels like the way

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Speaker 1: everything lined up, it was like they had to Their

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Speaker 1: priority was getting that starting pitcher, and and once they

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Speaker 1: traded for him. I think they were like, Okay, now

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Speaker 1: we can do this. Now we have the money to

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Speaker 1: go do this, and that's what it looks like. We'll

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Speaker 1: get confirmation on that when when we start talking to people,

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Speaker 1: When when people you know, when there's press conferences and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: But just you know, a great day for the city

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Speaker 1: sports fans. I'm excited for sports fans. I know personally

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Speaker 1: as a Bears fan, that was you know, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: get much better than that, especially enjoying that game with

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Speaker 1: my son. Uh. But you know, I'm happy for Cubs

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Speaker 1: fans because this is it's been a while since we've

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Speaker 1: seen the big move and then it followed up by

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Speaker 1: another big move that was absolutely necessary and like don't

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Speaker 1: know half measures they've they've they've done, hadn't they've pulled

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Speaker 1: off a really nice offseason. Uh well, we'll save any

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Speaker 1: criticism for spending for future offseasons because they did what

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Speaker 1: needed to be done and give them props. Uh, go

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Speaker 1: enjoy it, you know, Strutt at Cubs convention. Enjoy the

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Speaker 1: praise and then go win a bunch of games, like

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Speaker 1: go do it on the field, Like you have the manager,

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Speaker 1: you have the roster, Go go in go go have

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Speaker 1: some fun and bring playoff baseball back to Wrinkley again,

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Speaker 1: because that was awesome last October, and maybe they'll be

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Speaker 1: an even deeper run. We will obviously talk more about

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Speaker 1: this any any further fallout whenever Jed talks, whenever Bragman

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Speaker 1: is introduced, and then obviously Cubs Convention is coming up

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Speaker 1: next weekend. That is going to be a fun, fun

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Speaker 1: time for Cubs fans and and hopefully the players and

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Speaker 1: coaches and for an office as well. We will talk

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Speaker 1: to you soon. Thanks so much for listening to This

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Speaker 1: is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate reviews, scribe, subscribe

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Speaker 1: to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to The Athletic, where

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Speaker 1: Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs,

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Speaker 1: including all the Alex Bragman fallout. Thanks so much for listening.

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Speaker 1: Take care everyone,