WEBVTT - Selects: The Case of Sacco and Vanzetti 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:01.600 How toy everybody. 0:00:02.000 --> 0:00:04.120 This is Chuck here the Stuff You Should Know Podcast, 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:08.000 and it is Saturday. It's actually Wednesday in my real 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.479 time world, but in the future it will be Saturday 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:13.440 when you're listening to this, because it is my charge 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.880 to deliver it to you. A classic Stuff you Should 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:21.880 Know episode handpicked and curated by yours truly, and this 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.480 week we're going with a pretty good history up from 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.520 March twenty nineteen, the case of Seco and ven Zette. 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:42.600 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.519 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.040 there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's guest producer Josh 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.279 over there. So you put the three of us together there, 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.840 and we're gonna get a little true crime history on 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:59.080 you with the trial of Sacco and Benzetti. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:05.720 Yeah, these guys, I mean a little backstory on I 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.600 guess the time. We're talking about the nineteen twenties in 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:15.600 the United States. We're talking about two gentlemen that were 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:22.520 both anarchists, that were both Italian immigrants and both supposedly 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:30.080 followers of this really notable anarchist named Luigi Galliani. Who 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.000 this guy was sort of an anarchist leader. He put 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:39.520 out anarchist rag he was called for violence. He has 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:45.119 a history of authorizing like bombings, assassination attempts, like really 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:50.320 tough stuff. And so this is who supposedly Saco and 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:57.040 Vinzetti were, you know, I guess by association advocating advocating sure, 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:02.880 advocating for this type of violence them as immigrant anarchists. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:08.560 Do you remember in our anarchism episode, Like during this period, 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.960 in like a ten year period, anarchists assassinated like five 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.480 or six major heads of state around the world, including 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:21.680 McKinley in the United States. It was a big deal. 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.280 And I mean there was also a struggle going on 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.920 for the soul of America. Where we're going to be socialists, 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.760 where we're going to be capitalists? Should we just go 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:35.480 with anarchism. There was a lot of a lot of 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.960 debate over you know, which which economy we should go with, 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.000 or what what politics we should go with, And there 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.080 was something of a red scare because communism was on 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:48.959 the table too. There was a red scare at the 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.760 time too. So it wasn't like the kind of time 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.239 you would walk around like, yeah, I'm an anarchist, now 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.239 get on board, you know. But and at the same time, 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.280 if you weren't an anarchist, you're probably scared of our 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.560 anarchists because they would bomb stuff and they were well 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:03.560 known for it too. 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:04.480 Yeah. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:06.560 So I mean this is not just the United States. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:11.280 Like all over the world there were political radicals that 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.880 was violence from anarchy and riots, and like you said, 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.200 people trying to take down like politicians or judges that 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.960 were deporting, at least in the United States, deporting immigrant 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.919 anarchists back to their home countries like as quickly as 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:27.480 they could root them out. 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:28.040 Basically. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.960 So this is sort of the stage in the early 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.360 nineteen twenties. And I guess we should hop in the 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:36.400 way Back machine. 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:47.120 Oh yes, let's and head on over to bast In Town. Okay, 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:48.440 that's Boston by the way. 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.880 Yeah, no, I know, Okay, it doesn't matter if I know. 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:52.600 Just make sure the way Back Machine knows. 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:54.840 Oh, the way Back Machine knows it can read my 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:55.920 silly accents. 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.160 So here we are. It's nineteen twenty around Boston. And 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.480 actually we're not in Boston proper. We're about ten miles 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.200 south in a little town of Braintree, Yeah. 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.520 Which is these days would be Boston proper, so I 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:09.480 mean you know more. 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.720 Yeah, yeah, it's like the metro Boston area. Right. And 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.200 Braintree was known as a shoe manufacturing center. It had 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.320 more than one shoe company, which meant it was a 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:26.120 shoe manufacturing center. And on this particular day in April 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.800 of nineteen twenty, I think it was April fifteenth, right, correct, 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:34.599 In Braintree, there was a dude named Shelley Neil who 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.880 was an agent for the American Express Company. And the 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.920 function I got of Shelley Neil was that he would 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.520 he was kind of like a Brinks armed guard. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.880 Yeah, a courier for money. 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.760 And not just some money, like a lot of money. 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.400 On this day, from the nine eighteen AM train from Boston, 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.560 Shelley Neil went to the brain Tree, the brain Tree 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:06.159 train depot and picked up thirty thousand dollars thirty grand 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.320 in cash, which is about four hundred and twenty seven 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.239 thousand dollars in twenty eighteen money. 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:14.359 Yeah, he did this every week. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.960 Right. He picked it up, and he took it back 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:22.720 to his office, and he opened up a metal box 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:27.359 and inside had two canvas bags and each was the 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.520 payroll for one of the two shoe companies that he 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.799 picked up money for, one of which was called Slater 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.520 and Morel. I'm not sure what the other one was. 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.800 Maybe it was three K. Definitely Slater and Morell it 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:41.520 was one of them. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:42.679 The other was New Balance. 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.000 Okay, yes, so Slater and Morell and New Balance were 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.640 the ones whose payroll he had on him that day. 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.520 Yeah, And it's it's so amazing how that stuff used 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.320 to work back then, Like how payroll was just so 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.919 lo fi. It would literally be a huge amount of 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.080 cash delivered it in a box that he would take 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:05.160 to an office and someone would sit there and stuff 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:09.680 cash into envelopes to then go to like a factory 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:11.760 to pay off employees, not pay off, but. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.599 To pay right to pay them. There they're legit check 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:15.159 from working. 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.760 You didn't see nothing right this week. 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.200 This is for all the shoe leather. So that's how 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:22.919 it worked back then. And so this is what he 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.960 was doing. It's just like any other Thursday. However, on 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.120 this day, as he went in, he noticed a car 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:32.960 out front that he had not seen before, this big 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.560 car that had like these little curtains on the inside 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.760 windows that were pulled shut and other people in Braintree 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:45.080 later on would report seeing that car kind of tooling around, 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.480 and they said, it looks like it's got like four 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.480 or five men inside that look Italian and they're just 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.760 sort of driving around brain Tree, which I guess to 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.000 raise some suspicions. 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.840 Sure, because again, if you were Italian, you may have 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:05.359 been associated with anarchists who were associated with bomb throwing. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.599 So four or five of them kind of aimlessly driving 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.080 around the town a brain Tree, this little tiny town, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.240 I'm sure aroused some suspicions, and definitely did because there 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.400 were a lot of people who later on said that 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:21.240 they saw this car driving around between nine am and 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:22.240 twelve pm. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:27.360 That's right, so about three that afternoon. Here's what happened next. 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.640 For payroll, these people had to get these envelopes, so 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.640 what's known as a paymaster. And this is also sort 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.600 of part of the arm guard thing because the paymaster 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.040 a has a gun and then has a guard with 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:45.000 a gun. This guy's name was Freddie Parminter and the 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:50.160 guard was Alessandro Erredelli. And so they stop by, they 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.960 pick up all these envelopes. They're going down to the factory. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.239 They're going to pay everybody, and all of a sudden, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:01.640 bam bam, bam bam, gunfire and mayhem ensues. 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.040 I didn't realize there's going to be special effects in 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:11.160 this episode, So you did, man, it has been brought it. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.240 So these guys are on Pearl Street and when these 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:20.240 shots suddenly just ring out and the first guy's hit, 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.520 Barredelli's hit and he goes down. I believe it was 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.720 Barredelli who was hit first. Oh no, he wasn't hit. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.400 It was Parmenter who was hit. Barredelli is on the 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:36.240 ground and he has lost his gun, and he's being 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.280 approached by a man with a gun on him, and 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.360 Barredelli apparently has begged for his life to no avail. 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.200 The man shoots him in the chest at least once, 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.800 and the bullet punctures his lungs, one of his major 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.439 arteries to his heart, and then lodges itself and its 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:57.040 hip to be fished out later on by a corner 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.800 and used in the case against Ssacho and van z Eddie. 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.600 The other guy, parman or the paymaster, he gets hit 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:10.120 a few times, staggers across the street and collapses. And 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.840 this car, a blue touring car, which is you know, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.120 a big sedan that you would think of today like 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.559 a touring. We'll call it a Lincoln town car, even 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.200 though it's not at all what it was. That blue 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:25.319 car that had been seen driving around right, Okay, that's 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.400 another way to put it. It was abu. Yeah, but 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.640 the same one that had been seen driving slowly around 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.840 Braintree all morning suddenly pulls up and the guys who 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.400 had shot these two men and taken the money about 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:42.560 fifteen thousand dollars hopped in and that drove off and 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:44.360 everyone lost sight of it. 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:48.360 Yeah, and very importantly, the man who shot Baradelli had 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.240 a hat a felt cap on, right, So just remember 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.000 that little fact. There were eyewitnesses all over the place. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.120 It's not like no one saw this happen. Like dozens 0:09:59.120 --> 0:09:59.840 of people saw this. 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.160 Yeah, it was a daring daylight robbery at three o'clock 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:05.720 in the afternoon. 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.080 Daring do right man named Jimmy Bostock was one of 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.000 the witnesses. Apparently, Bearadelli like died in his arms, and 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.079 like all people in the nineteen twenties didn't know any better, 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.640 he immediately started messing with a crime scene, started picking 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:22.200 up gun shells. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:23.720 Another guy came. 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.640 By and picked up the hat, and you know, they 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.160 just didn't know any better at the time, I. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:34.880 Guess, right, So this crime scene has been totally messed up. 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:36.560 But the cops show up because again, this is a 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:40.040 big deal. This is a small town and something close 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.079 to two hundred and twenty thousand dollars has just been 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.000 stolen and two men murdered for it in this little, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.120 tiny town. So it's a big deal. And the cops 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:53.400 showed up, and probably the first thing they said was anarchists. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:57.280 Maybe I'll bet that's kind of what they would say, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:58.200 I think at the time. 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.160 Yeah, should we take a break? 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:02.439 Geez? 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.240 Okay already, yeah, I think so. 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.440 I mean this falls into uh acts and that's definitely 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:11.120 act one. Okay, all right, so dead men in the street. 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:13.120 The cops are on the scene. 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:36.000 Message and and scene and shot. 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:45.120 Shot? Is it and scene or end scene? 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:50.360 Chuck, We've talked about this a lot. And scene. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:55.079 En scene? Nope, because it makes sense, you know, you 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:55.679 do in the. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:12:01.679 Scene, right, So by saying and scene. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.280 So the cops had shown up, they're investigating the place. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:11.000 They're not really finding anything aside from what the witnesses 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.560 have already kind of gathered up and are now holding 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.760 out to them in their outstretched palms, like, here's your evidence, Copper. 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:20.000 But the. 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.080 Cars searched for all over and it's not found. It 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:32.000 just totally disappears for a couple of days, and it 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.280 turns up a couple of days later in the woods, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.280 I believe, south of Braintree, in a place called Bridgewater, 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.000 which is a little even further south from Boston. I 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.040 think it's another like ten or so miles down south 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.280 from Braintree, right. 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.560 I think Bridgewater only had seven dunkin Donuts, so it 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.160 was a small town, right. 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:55.200 And so remember when I said the cops were probably 0:12:55.240 --> 0:13:00.520 like anarchists. I knew it. There was another daylight robbery 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.640 of payroll, and I found somewhere that it said it 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.920 was successful. I found somewhere else that it was unsuccessful. 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.280 But both of them agreed there had been no loss 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.240 of life whatsoever. But it was similar enough, and it 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.520 had happened like two years or a year before. It 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:20.080 was similar enough that the cops immediately thought of the 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.559 people they'd been thinking of for this, for this earlier crime. 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.680 They thought, this is clearly the work of the same people. 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.760 Yeah, And when they found this car in the woods. 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.280 Very importantly, the license plates had been ripped off, and 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.680 there were other tire tracks nearby, so it seemed pretty 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:43.200 obvious that, you know, they ditched this car get in 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.760 another one. The officer on the scene said, Maddie, I 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.000 think this is a car from the brain Tree meta. 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:55.160 All I can think of is Jeremy Renner in the town. Sure, 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.240 that's that's what I think of when I think Boston. 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:03.600 Yeah, everyone thinks of that. So another thing's going on 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.800 in parallel, so we need to set this up. Also, 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.200 on April fifteenth, which is the day of those maritas, 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:16.839 there was a guy named Ferruccio Cocchi and he lived 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:17.559 in Bridgewater. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:18.839 He was an anarchist. 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.520 He was being deported, so he quits his job, you know, 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.680 to be deported, does not show up to be deported. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.680 He calls the Immigration service after that on the sixteenth 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.320 and said, uh, you know, my wife is as sick 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:33.520 and so I have to tend to her. 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.520 And they said, am I going to get in trouble 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:38.000 for that? Now? 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.680 No, you won't coet control. Everybody loves your Italian accent. 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:42.560 Please tell me you can still do an Italian accent. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.200 Right, I think, so we're going to find out after 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:46.600 this episode. 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:48.840 Because I'm just doing the accent. 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.120 Sure, not saying like they're all mobsters, because like, you know, 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.120 the Sopranos got in trouble for that. 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:59.440 Oh yeah, did they did they say all Italians are mobsters? 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.640 No, but I mean I remember there just being hay 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.760 about from the Italian American community, like why is it 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.640 every time in movies were just mobsters. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.280 Oh I could see that, you know, sure, I mean 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.920 I could see them. Yeah, but these aren't even mobster now. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:13.800 They're anarchists. 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:14.240 Right. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.560 So he's being deported, he doesn't go. He calls them 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.120 and says, my wife is sick, and they said, fine, 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.800 we're going to check out your story. Though they found 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.720 that his wife was not sick, and that all of 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.320 a sudden he's saying, okay, it's fine. Actually I'm really 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:29.680 ready to go, Like now. 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:31.800 Yeah, come on, come on, can you get. 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.720 Me out of the country quickly? And they're like, well, 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.960 you should probably like leave some money with your wife. 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:37.000 He's like, no, no, no, she's good. 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:38.200 Let's just go. 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.320 Yeah, And so they're like, hmm, all right, this is 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.480 a little odd, So maybe he's involved. 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.240 Can I can. I paint the scene a little bit, though. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.360 I want to go back over and highlight two things 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.360 that you've mentioned so far. Sure, One, this is a 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:55.040 time where to cover up a crime, all you had 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.440 to do was remove the license plates on the car 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.680 you ditched. That was it. You just confounded the forever. 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:01.800 Well, that helped. 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.080 And then secondly, if you were to be deported, all 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:07.680 you had to do is not show up, but then 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.920 call him the next day and say your wife was sick, 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:14.440 and Immigration and Naturalization would say, sure, no problem. 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.400 Well no were they investigated immediately. 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.760 Okay, But I'm just saying, like this is things have changed, attack, 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:22.720 I think, is what I'm trying to say. Hold on, 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:24.480 let me let me see, Josh, what are you say 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.000 You're trying to say that, Yeah, I'm trying to say that. Okay, Yes, 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:28.760 that's exactly what I'm trying to say. 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.040 It's weird because you looked on both of your shoulders 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:33.200 at the devil and the angel. 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.880 They won't shut up, Chuck, so. 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.080 They summarize, you know, it's all coming together. This guy's 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.160 acting weird. Well, he's also sixteenth. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.600 He's also took one of those people that they liked 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.800 for that that robbery the year before, which is one 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.440 of the reasons why they they had their intent up 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:55.680 about this guy in the first place. 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:57.640 Right, so he's a suspect. 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:03.880 The co ops go to specifically, Michael Stewart, police chief, said, 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.720 I'm going to go back to his house. I'm going 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.520 to see what else I can find out from this guy. 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.240 He shows up and there's a dude there named Mike Boda. 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.320 He says, yeah, sure, you can look around. You can 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.720 look in the house, go back and look in the garage. 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.879 Two car garage shed, no problem. I usually have my 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.119 car there. It's an Overland, but it's in the shop 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.600 getting repaired. And Stewart goes out there and it's like, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.240 all right, so here's where the Overland parks. But there's 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:33.240 some really big tire tracks next to the Overland and 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.400 the second stall that looked like they would probably fit 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.480 this large buick that was so mysteriously kind of tooling 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.560 around around the time of this murder. 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:47.159 Right, and this cop Stuart goes, hmm, I'm going to 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.560 make a mental note of that, and that's what he did. 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.119 He asked about the other car. I don't know if 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.480 you said, Boda said, that his other car was at 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:02.159 the garage being repaired. Correct, So so Stuart, who's the 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.200 police chief of Bridge Order. I think I get the 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.320 impression that was kind of new. There was another one 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.120 who kind of factors into this case tangentially later on, 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.080 who is the former police chief. So I get the 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.840 impression that Michael Stewart was fairly new, but he's investigating 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.080 this case. He likes Kowachi. He's now met Mike Boda, 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.080 who is suspicious of too. He goes back to talk 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.080 to Boda some more to this place where Koachi lived 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.840 as Boda's roommate, I guess away from his wife and kids. 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.000 I'm not sure why Kowachi was running this place. 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:32.280 Are we going with Kai? Now? 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:34.760 Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's it. I took Italian in 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.080 college and I'm almost one hundred percent sure it's Kowachi. 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:37.400 Okay. 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.679 Do you remember from our Dyslexi episode where Italian is 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.840 extremely easy to learn because there's just very few ways 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.639 to write things, to write the phone memes. One of 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:50.720 the reasons it is easy is because it's kind of 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.760 like Polish. It's in most cases it's actually easier than Polish, 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.760 but it's pronounced just like it's spelled, except for the 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.880 ci as a sound. Okay, so kowa chi okay, okay, 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.600 all right, that was your Italian lesson. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.160 I appreciate that after all these years. 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:12.080 The other little ushuck. Not all Italians or Italian Americans 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.800 or mobsters. That's your other Italian lesson. No, okay, So. 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.000 I've known a bunch of Italians Italian Americans and none 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:20.000 of them were mobsters. 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:26.160 Damn, there you go. So police Chief Stewart goes back 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.280 to talk to Boda, and things get really suspicious too, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.679 don't they, Because he shows up and knocks on the 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.080 door and the door just swings open onto an empty apartment. 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.960 And Stuart spends about fifteen minutes going Bda, mister Bona, Hello, 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.399 mister Boda, and he finally takes a couple of steps 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:46.240 in and realizes Boda's gone. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:47.120 That's right. 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.160 So he he goes by the garage where the guy 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.720 said that his car was in the shop, goes over there. 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.040 The car is still there, so that checked out, and 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.720 he told the owner his name was Simon Johnson. He said, hey, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.280 if anyone comes to get this car, just give us 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.400 a call. And the guy says, mental note, call cops 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:07.680 if someone comes. 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:08.160 To get this car. 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:09.320 Jeremy Renner. 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.159 So on May fifth, this is what. A couple of 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.679 weeks later, a man comes to the door and this 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.159 is it. I believe this is it says nine o'clock. 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:20.560 But that's at night, right. 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.080 Yeah, I couldn't tell it first, and then it feels 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.040 like night. Yeah. It says also that the wife is 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.160 illuminated by a motorcycle headlights. Yeah, I guess at night. 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:33.280 Yeah, all right, so it's and let's it's very dark 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.360 in the morning, right, So at nine o'clock at night, 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:41.880 this guy shows up to the owners of the garage's door, 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.840 knocks on the door. His young wife answers. The guy 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.479 says that he's Mike Boda. I'm here to pick up 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:54.440 my car that ovaland over there, and the owner of 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.280 the garage comes and tells his wife, and he says, 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:58.600 go call the police. You know, we don't have a phone. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.159 Go next door, call the cops. She leaves out the 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.840 back door and is caught, Like you said, there's this 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.440 motorcycle sitting outside. She also sees with a side car, 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:11.000 also sees a couple of guys that she said were 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.440 speaking Italian kind of hanging around. So it's all sort 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.359 of adding up at this point to something fishy. 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:24.800 Yeah, so I guess the fact that that Simon Johnson, 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.800 the shop owner or the mechanic was stalling made Boda 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.120 a little uneasy. Sure, so he took off without the car, right. 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.560 Yeah, he jumped in the sidecar and was out of there. 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.640 Okay, here's where things get super critical. For a pair 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:45.240 of guys named Saco and Vanzetti, there were two other 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.879 those two other guys that Ruth Johnson, Simon Johnson, the 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:53.040 mechanic's wife said she saw hanging out waiting for Mike 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.600 Boda to get his car. They split two. Now they're 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.680 suddenly like on foot. There's no motorcycle or car for them, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:01.920 so they have to leave on foot. So they walk 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:06.439 over toward the direction of the Bridgewater rail line, and 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.440 she says that she saw them get on the train 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.560 or at least go toward the train station or another railcar. 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:14.200 So I think it might have been like a street 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:19.760 car kind of thing. So somehow Chief Stewart gets word 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:22.960 of this. I think he shows up. He gets word 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:27.159