1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault. This time it's for 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: an episode that originally aired February nineteen. This was the 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: first of our two part series looking at what we 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: call the Lost Daughters of autun, the the planets once 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: believed to occupy our solar system that either weren't there 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: or at least haven't been confirmed yet. Yeah, and it's 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: a it's a two parter, so the the next of 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: old episode will be part two. But this was a 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: fun way to to get into basically like the history 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: of celestial mechanics to a certain extent, you know, by 13 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: looking at the errors that reveal the journey of understanding. Yeah, 14 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: I remember. This one was a lot of fun, so 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: we hope you enjoy it. Greetings traveler, take a seat, 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: strap yourself in pre order any of the various micro 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: gravity snacks and cocktails on our in flight menu. As 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: we leave Earth's atmosphere, we will engage the local Knot engine, 19 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: which will allow us to cross the boundaries between our 20 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: world in other worlds that could have been instead of 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: visiting the actual planets of our Solar system, we will 22 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: visit the various hypothetical Solar System objects that all seemed 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: possible at one point. Counting down five four, three two one. 24 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stop 25 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: works dot Com. Hey, welcome, it's stuff to blow your mind. 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: My name is Robert lamp and I'm Joe McCormick, and 27 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: we're back to explore some of the furthest reaches of space, 28 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: about as far as you can go into space, the 29 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: part of space that never existed in the first place, 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: or is or in some cases, as we'll get into 31 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: in an upcome episode, things that have not been completely 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: substantiated in the dark outer regions of our Solar system. Right, So, 33 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: today Robert and I wanted to explore hypothetical Solar System objects, 34 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: objects believe to be out there in our local galactic neighborhood, 35 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: within the domain of influence of our home star, the Sun. Uh. 36 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: And there have been tons of objects like this over 37 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: the years that have been proposed to be out there, 38 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: some that we now know aren't actually there or were 39 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: never there. Others that maybe there's still an open question, 40 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: right and uh, you know, especially in the first one 41 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss. You have something that is it 42 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: emerges as a model for the Solar System or a 43 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: model for the universe beyond Earth, based on a mix 44 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: of the best available information at the time, and then 45 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: also perhaps some some other concepts that maybe didn't need 46 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: to necessarily influence a scientific or pre even pre scientific 47 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: understanding of what the universe might consist of. Well, one 48 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: of the things that this episode will and uh will 49 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: cause us to have to consider is what are the 50 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: ideas that people bring to the table when they're when 51 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: they're trying to decide what exists out there in the 52 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: void of space. And it's not always as simple as 53 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: just well, we look up in the sky or we 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: look through a telescope and we see what we see, 55 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: and if we see something then then we think it's there. 56 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: A lot of times there are reasons people have for 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: concluding that objects must be up there in the Solar System, 58 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: and what those reasons are are about as interesting as 59 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: the models themselves, right, because you end up going from say, 60 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: just pure observational data to a working understanding of the 61 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: physical world, to mathematical models that are based on all 62 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: of these things. And you kind of expand outward from there. Uh. 63 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: And along the way there's there's room for you know, 64 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: expectations to build around things that end up to be 65 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: uh illusory. And so our first illusory destination is going 66 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: to be the planet and Tikathon and Tikathon. So this 67 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: includes I would say, a sort of a a little 68 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: bit of a hint of Cathulu. There's a cosmic horror 69 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: to behold. Uh. It's it stands for, of course, the 70 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: opposite Earth, the counter Earth. Yes. Uh, so please keep 71 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: all seatbelts fastened as our as we approach this hypothetical planet, 72 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: because we're gonna we're gonna be coming into into a 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: close proximity to some some very old, very alien cosmic 74 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: forces here, uh, namely a cosmos or a model for 75 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: the cosmos, in which everything, including our Sun, gravitates around 76 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: the Great Central Fire. The Great Central Fire is not 77 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: the Sun, right, this is something else. This is Dio's Philock, 78 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: the watch tower of Zeus, the prison of Zeus, the 79 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: heart altar of the universe, all these things, depending on 80 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 1: your translation. Well, I am on board for this journey. Robert, 81 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: tell me, where does the idea of the Antikathon come 82 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: from well. The Antikathon was first proposed by Greek philosopher 83 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: or Philolas, who lived from four seventy to three five BC. 84 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: He worked with a Pythagorean cosmological system. In his system, 85 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: you had a sphere of fixed stars, and you had 86 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: the five planets. You're the Sun, you have the Moon, 87 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: but you didn't only have Earth. You had a counter Earth, 88 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: the counter Earth, right, and all of this is moving 89 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: around the central fire, which again is not the Sun, 90 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: and the planet Antikathon. Uh, in this model remains unseen 91 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: to us. It's always hidden. Um, you know, it's it's 92 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: either below the horizon or or hidden by by by 93 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: some other factor of the movements of this uh. This model. Okay, 94 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to picture this if the Sun is 95 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: not the central fire, but it's always but Antikathon, the 96 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: on Earth is always on the opposite side of the 97 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: central fire. I guess I'm having trouble picturing it, but 98 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: maybe you can lay it out for me. We'll lay 99 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: it lay it out more. But basically, some of these things, 100 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: like the central fire and and Tikeathon, they would be 101 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: eternally in our blind spot in this model. Okay. So 102 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: the model here explains the movement of observable and unobservable 103 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: bodies as being dictated by their distance from the central fire, 104 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: so that the distant spheres of fixed stars well that 105 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: that barely moves at all. The Moon takes a month 106 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: to complete its revolution, the Sun a year in each 107 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: planet in its own interval. The Earth is closest to 108 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: the central fire, and so it takes only twenty four hours. 109 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: And all of this accounts for the apparent movement of 110 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: the spheres and our cycles of night and day. So 111 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: a large part of the model is attempting to explain 112 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: why things are moving the way there they appear to 113 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: be moving. And this was something that was worth trying 114 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: to explain because even back in the ancient world in 115 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: the fourth or fifth century BC, we didn't have telescopes yet, 116 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: but there was plenty of naked eye astronomy. I mean, 117 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: the inner planets were known about back then by the 118 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: Babylonian astronomers. There's a lot you could learn and study 119 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: just by looking up at the sky at night with 120 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: the naked eye. But the big question is, obviously there 121 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: are things that are part of the solar system that 122 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: that these uh early astronomers could not see and had 123 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: no idea existed. And yet at the same time, why 124 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: would a model like this need to by necessity incorporate 125 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: things that are invisible? Right? Yeah, why would you invent 126 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: an antikathon if you don't have direct evidence that is there? Well, 127 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: Aristotle would later, And then this depends on who you're reading. 128 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: In some cases, people interpret this as a joke. Would 129 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: perhaps joke about this theory and say that that the 130 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: Pythagoreans and in particular field House made up the hidden 131 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: tent solar body in order to reach a perfect number 132 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: of tin Okay, because they are really into like numbers 133 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: and symmetry and all that, right, And and a lot 134 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: of what we understand about this theory does come from 135 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: from the writings of Aristotle, and or at least what 136 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: we can decipher his writings about it. Uh So you know, 137 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: whether he was whether this was he was truly joking 138 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: about this ten planet thing, I'm not sure. But we 139 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: we still have to give fuel else a great deal 140 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: of credit because no matter what he got wrong here, 141 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: in an attempt to understand the movement of the cosmos, 142 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: he at least used a system that didn't position the 143 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: Earth or even the Sun at the center of everything, 144 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: So he was ahead of the geocentrics and the heliocentrics 145 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: in that regard. He was also the first to create 146 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: a model that that actually lists all five planets known 147 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: to antiquity in the correct order, and in many respects 148 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: he simply built the best model possible based on existing theories, 149 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: current current data, and observations. Again with the with the 150 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: caveat here that he also threw into non existent bodies. 151 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: So first, let's talk about the whole center of this 152 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: whole thing, um, the central Fire, and why why it's 153 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: there instead of the Earth or the Sun, which is 154 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: further out from the center in this model, like Earth 155 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: is closest to the central fire and Sun is beyond, 156 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: and the Sun is beyond that, but the central fire 157 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: is always on the opposite side of the Earth. We 158 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: can't see right, We never get to see it. So 159 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: it's possible that it was because fire rather than Earth, 160 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: seemed a more fitting elemental center to things, and the 161 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: Sun in this model is apparently actually interpreted more as 162 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: a like a glass that reflects the inner fire to 163 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: our world. And then there's a there's a great deal 164 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 1: of disagreement about all the details in this model and 165 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: and interpretations vary, but something that the counter Earth is 166 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: there to balance out our Earth in some way, or 167 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: that it's there to account for eclipses, which is an 168 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: interesting theory that that that Aristotle backs up to some degree, 169 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: and it does remind me of similar contemplations in in 170 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: Indian astronomy that led to the creation of the eclipse 171 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: demon ra who which is also an astronomical body. Uh. 172 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: It was you know, determined this is a thing that 173 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: is causing eclipses. So ra who would be the demon 174 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: that would come out and eat the sun? Well, yes, 175 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: in the in the purely when we've discussed this on 176 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: an older episode of stuff to blow your mind. But 177 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: but ra who was at once this demon that would 178 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: come out and eat the sun? But also uh an 179 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: astronomical calculation as part of the model for how eclipses 180 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: were occurring. And as one of the curious facts of 181 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: all this is that as uh Indian astronomy advanced and 182 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: created a more accurate view of what was going on 183 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: with eclipses, instead of like keeping the religion the mythology untouched, 184 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: they also adjusted that to make up for these new 185 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: advancements and science. Interesting. Yeah, so go back and listen 186 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: to that episode. I'll make sure to link to it 187 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: on the landing page. For this episode of Stuff to 188 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind dot Com. So fuel Allows explains that 189 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: the Earth rotates so that it always faces away from 190 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: the central fire, so we never see it. We're tidally locked. 191 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: I guess they wouldn't have those terms back then, I suppose, 192 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, that's an interesting idea that lots of 193 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: uh objects that orbit other objects are not rotating freely 194 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: as they orbit like we are. They're tidally locked, meaning 195 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: their rotation is synchronized to their orbit, so the same 196 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: side of the body always faces the inner object. Now, 197 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: of course there would be a number knowing what we 198 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: know now, there would be so many problems with this model. 199 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: Right if one side of the Earth where we're just 200 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: perpetually I guess in flames due to facing uh this 201 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: this weird cosmic non sun fire at the center of things, 202 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: that would be very bad. Yeah. But again, in this model, 203 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: the planets locked, it's never it never never sees that 204 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: we never see the fire from our side of the planet, 205 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: and likewise we never see the counter Earth, which moves 206 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: at the same speed as our planet. So I wonder 207 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: did he think that there were people on the other 208 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: side of the planet who could see the central fire. 209 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: I don't believe. So, I mean we have to we're again, 210 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: we're we're thinking with with our modern model of of 211 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: of what we know to be true about the world 212 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,359 Speaker 1: and the Solar System, and we have to to realize 213 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: that this system was was partially constructed on just the 214 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: best materials they had at the time. Now, it's also 215 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: been suggested that the notion of a counter Earth was 216 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: introduced in this model, you know, not for any physical reasons, 217 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: not for any kind of counterbalancing reasons, etcetera, but for 218 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: the same reason that we find the concept fascinating today, 219 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: that the you know, the notion of another Earth is 220 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: mysterious and intriguing. It, you know, it's a mirror realm 221 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: just beyond our reach. In particular, ancient philosophy scholar Peter 222 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 1: Kingsley has proposed that aspects of the model attempt to 223 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: factor in Hades and Tartarus Um Hades and tartar Us 224 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: of course, um uh, you know, our our locations real 225 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: ms within Greek mythology, the realms of the dead. Right, 226 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: so Hades is like the sort of general realm of 227 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: the dead, and Tartarus is more like a hell yeah, 228 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: like if you were one of the Titans who rebelled 229 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: against the gods, then that is you're likely abode. So 230 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: Kingsley's argument is that both of these realms are considered 231 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: to be below the earth. Uh, Tartarus furthest of all 232 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: and that would make the counter earth Hades and the 233 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: central fire Tartarus. And this is where we get to 234 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: come back to the to Kingsley's interpretation of it is 235 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: not being like the Tower of Zeus, but the prison 236 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: of Zeus, the prison of the Titans. And this is 237 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: so is this an interpretation, to be clear, sometimes described 238 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: as provocative. So this is not necessarily like the UH 239 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: the agreed upon explanation for the system. But it's an 240 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: interesting tape take, and it does attempt to understand the 241 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: motivation for skewing the model so and introducing two invisible 242 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: realms into a model of celestial mechanics. But it would 243 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: mean that the counter Earth here is the realm of 244 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: the dead, a planet of the underworld. Now a Philolouse's 245 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: model of the heaven certainly doesn't hold up to later 246 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: much less modern astronomy. But you're probably wondering, what if 247 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: there was another Earth? Maybe he's onto something here, right, Well, 248 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: what if there there was another Earth orbiting at the 249 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: just the right speed so that the Sun is always 250 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: between us and our evil twin? What what if it 251 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: was always in our blind spot? Could that work? Would 252 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: we have seen it by now? If there was such 253 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: a planet, that's a good question. Yeah, if it was 254 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the Sun, we wouldn't really 255 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: be able to see it normally, would we. Well, on 256 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: surface level, this sounds possible, and I can that can easily. 257 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: You can easily see where the spirals into conspiracy theory, 258 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: thinking right right, Well, I mean, try to find this 259 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: object with your telescope and you will suffer a problem 260 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: with the eyes. Right, But here's the thing. It wouldn't 261 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: work because yes, we would have spotted it. Because here's 262 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: the thing, the movement of the planets around the Sun 263 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: are not quite this simple clockwork model that we sometimes 264 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: fix in our heads. It's not just planets going around 265 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: the Sun at at constant speeds. Now, the gravity of 266 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: other planets has a subtle influence on our orbit, absolutely 267 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: slowing us down or speeding us up. So if there 268 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: was another Earth on the other side of the Sun, 269 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: it would it would get a Jupiter pull or boost, 270 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: and it would inevitably give us a peek at the 271 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: hidden planet behind the Sun. So it wouldn't be able 272 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: to remain perfectly hidden forever. It would be one of 273 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: the one of the one of our Earth's would would 274 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: outpace the other just enough to get a peak of it, 275 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: and it would be revealed. But it wouldn't just be 276 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: the influence of say Jupiter and the other planets on it. 277 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: It would also be the influence of it on the 278 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: other planets we can see, right, Yeah, given the effect 279 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: that the mass of one planet has on the orbits 280 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: of other planets, we'd see it. In the math. If 281 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: there was a hidden body of planetary mass on the 282 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: other side to the Sun, we would we would see 283 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: it. It It would have disrupted the orbits of our satellites. 284 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: And this would hold true according to NASA scientists Michael Kaiser, 285 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: even if the counter Earth were only a hundred miles wide, 286 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: so it doesn't even have to be a full sized 287 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: counter earth. Uh, even if it were just relatively small, 288 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: we would be able to experience the effects detect the 289 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: effects of its presence. But let's say you're one of 290 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: those people who's like, I don't trust all that math 291 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: and detection stuff. I I I won't believe until I 292 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: can look for it and see it and it's not there. Well, 293 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: I mean, if if that's who you are, I probably 294 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: can't convince you. But in two thousand six, NASA's Solar 295 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: Terrestrial Relations Observatory or STEREO mission sent to satellites around 296 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: the Sun to study the solar surface, and they allowed 297 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: us a peek beyond the Sun and guess what, there's 298 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: no planet Hades there. So we have looked, we have 299 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: looked in the in the closet for the monster, and 300 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: Anti Kathon is nowhere to be fat. Yeah, we've looked 301 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: in all three ways that it would be revealed to us. Yes, 302 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: and it is not. It is not there. It's it's 303 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: not even I can't I can't stress it enough. It's 304 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: not just a matter of well we haven't seen it yet. No, 305 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: it's it is not there. Definitely not right. However, if 306 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: you do want to find a counter Earth, your best 307 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: place to experience it is in science fiction. Oh yeah, 308 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure though. I bet there's some wonderful counter earth 309 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories out there. Oh, I'm sure there are, but 310 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: I can't imagine they're as delightful. Well, I don't know 311 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: if all these are delightful. Uh, let's say, I'm not 312 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: sure that they could possibly be as interesting as some 313 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: of the counter Earth models that we've seen in science fiction. Though. Now, 314 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: isn't Gore a counter Earth? Yes? It is. John Norman's Gore. 315 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: These are a series, a long series of sci fi 316 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: fantasy novels in which the counter earth Gore is a 317 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: world of swords, techno priest King's sexual philosophy, and the 318 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: Solar system strategic reserves of misogyny. That's about right, because 319 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: I have not read any of these books, but I 320 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: have seen the film the MST. Three K treatment of 321 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: Outlaw of Gore. Yes, just Outlaw at Gore, I think, Yeah, 322 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: that's the title. Usually see uh with Jack Palance, Jack Palance, 323 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: that's all right? Yeah, with the guy who keeps yelling 324 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: the other character's name about five hundred times in the 325 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: movie Cab Cabin yea. And this was a sequel to 326 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: nine seven's Gore, which also had Palents in it as 327 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: well as Oliver read. I have not yet seen that 328 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: Filiver read it looks fabulous. I'm waiting for for one 329 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: of the riffing services, riff tracks or Mystery Sense Theater 330 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: to finally riff this film for me. Yeah, I just 331 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: remember about this movie. It's it's very it's like obviously 332 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: like super sexist, just woman hating off the chain and 333 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: like really silly fight scenes. Yeah. Well, my understanding of 334 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: the book series and I haven't and I haven't read them, presps. 335 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: We can hear from some listeners who have and have 336 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: some some feedback on them. Um. Apparently they start out 337 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: in the again thirty four book series here, so they 338 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: start out a little more based in just sort of 339 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: spaceship and sword and sorcery, you know, kind of a 340 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: John Carter vibe to them, and then they increasingly get 341 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: more into the author's quote unquote sexual philosophy. Oh boy. Um, 342 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: so I'm sure that's highly interesting. Now. Another great example 343 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: that also has some Mystery Sense Theater three thousand um 344 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: tie in is uh my favorite Gamera movie, Gamera Versus Guron, 345 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: which features a counter earth named Kara and it's home 346 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: to a humanoid species on the verge of extinction due 347 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: to NonStop Gaos attacks. Gaos being the sort of winged 348 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: shark creature that Gammera fights a lot with the sort 349 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: of radioactive bats that emit rays. Yeah, so this planet 350 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: has just been devastated by this because I guess they 351 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: don't have a Gamera. Uh, but they do have one 352 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: loan planetary Guardian, and it's the blade headed gearon which 353 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: if if you've ever seen a kaid you whose head 354 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: looks like just a giant blade and he's fighting Gamera, 355 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: that's him. Now, as with many of the verses things here, 356 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: is it actually in the end of the movie Gammera 357 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: versus Giron or do they team up? Oh? No, the 358 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: Guron is a total villain, So it's just said a 359 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: long dooey fight between the two. Yeah. Now, what's the 360 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: Godzilla movie where Aliens kidnapped Godzilla to bring him back 361 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: to their home planet to fight a monster that's attacking them. Who? 362 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: I don't remember that one. It sounds like it probably exists, though, 363 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: Is that Godzilla versus Monster Zero? Maybe? So I just 364 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: looked it up. Yes, I think that is it. I 365 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: don't think that took place on the counter Earth though, 366 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: I think it's just another planet. Okay, we'll see some 367 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: other quick examples of of counter earths and fiction. Uh. 368 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: Britton Marling's Another Earth as a film that apparently explores this. 369 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, but I love her work on 370 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: the o A, the Netflix sci fi series. I haven't 371 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: seen it, it's good. Uh. Lars von Trier's uh Melancolia 372 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: is another film, another one I have not seen, which 373 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: also features a counter earth in some fashion, but I 374 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: don't I don't really watch films by that director, so 375 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: I can't speak to it. And then, of course, counter 376 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: earths pop up in various other sci fi properties of note, 377 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: many many a good deal better than what we've mentioned here. 378 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 1: But but hey, this is where you come in, the listener. 379 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 1: If you have a favorite counter earth or counter earth 380 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: treatment from science fiction, let us know. I would love 381 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: to hear from it. I always enjoy hearing, especially from 382 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: those of you who have really steeped in like seventies 383 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: and eighties sci fi UH novels you know, and can 384 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: write in and uh and and you know and educate 385 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: us on what we're missing. All Right, we gotta take 386 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: a quick break, but we'll be right back with more 387 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: on lost planets. Alright, we're back. What's our next destination, Joe, 388 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: we gotta be turning in and turning down this. I 389 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: want to get on a hobby horse for a second. Okay, okay. 390 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: You know that old expression that in space there is 391 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: no up or down. It's very It's like in the 392 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: Wrath of Cohn, right, you know, it's like con is thinking, 393 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: is not thinking three D enough, He's not thinking about 394 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: space the right way. Uh. And so it's technically advantageous 395 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: to recognize when you're flying around in the space there's 396 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: no real top or bottom. You can orient in a 397 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: new direction. And in a sense that is true if 398 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: we go into orbit around the Antikathon, say, there's no 399 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: reason to assume that the north pole of Gore is up, 400 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: in the south pole of Gore is down, or vice versa. Right. 401 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: And then, as we've discussed before in the show, you 402 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: have more of an up and down feel in Star 403 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: Trek because it's basically a world of ships, a world 404 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: of seagoing vessels translated into a space scenario. And then 405 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: you have more recent models of especially visual science fiction, 406 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: such as the television series The Expanse, which which demonstrates 407 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: him more three dimensional realm of of a cosmic military engagement. Exactly. Yeah, 408 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: uh so, so it is true that out here in 409 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 1: space there's no ground down beneath our feet. But in 410 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: another sense, I think that's really under selling how far 411 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: down down goes, because down means toward a center of gravity. 412 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: That's how we use it to mean, you know, down 413 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: on Earth, and the Solar System actually does have a bottom, 414 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: and it's about fifteen million degrees celsius. It's the core 415 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: of the Sun, the star I whose gaze you cannot 416 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: hold without going blind. That's all the way down in 417 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: the Solar System. So you're talking about just being if 418 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: you were pulled down the gravity well, as it's called, Yes, 419 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: that's the bottom. Yeah, straight down into the pit, straight 420 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: into the open mouth of autun And so I like 421 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: thinking about it that way, thinking about that, as you 422 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: get closer to the Sun, you're actually going down into 423 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: the pit. You're almost in a way, going into the underworld. 424 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: And so for literally thousands of years we mentioned this 425 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: earlier in the episode, but since no later than the 426 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 1: Babylonian astronomers of the second millennium BC, humans have known 427 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: about the first six planets you can see them with 428 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: the naked eye. Mercury, Vus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. They're 429 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: bright points of light passing and regressing across the night sky. 430 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: You don't need to telescope. Sometimes we've watched them, we've 431 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: charted their movement. And when Newton came along, there was 432 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: a revolution because we discovered the laws that govern the 433 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: way they move. And crucially, you know, Newton came up 434 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: with laws of motion that allowed us to see that 435 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: the same physical laws that controlled the movements of the 436 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: planets also controlled the movement of regular objects here on Earth, 437 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: whose things like gravity and momentum. But now that we're 438 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: out of the realm of saying the ancient Greeks who 439 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: are reasoning on the basis of maybe something like Pythagorean 440 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: symmetry or something like that, Now we've got real scientific 441 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: tools under our belt that actually help us learn what 442 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: things are out there, and they are good at producing 443 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: accurate results. Could we use those tools to see if 444 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: there's something else out there that we weren't seeing, And specifically, 445 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: could we peer deep down into the well, all the 446 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: way down down into the well of the Sun to 447 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: see if there's something in that direction we're not seeing, 448 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: so I wanna turn to my man urbane. You know 449 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: it's spelled urbane. That is not the French way. I 450 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: think is their bond or bond. Jean Joseph Laverier a 451 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: French astronomer who lived eighteen eleven to eighteen seventy seven, 452 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: and in eighteen thirty seven Laverier was appointed to a 453 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: position at the Polytechnic School in Paris, where he began 454 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: a long study of the planet Mercury, which is of 455 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: course the innermost planet in the Solar System that we 456 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: know about now. It's the closest to the Sun. And 457 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: he was doing things like creating tables of observation of 458 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: the planet's orbit. And if that sounds like boring work, 459 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: you should know that there's a wrinkle here. There's actually 460 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: a mystery involved in Mercury's orbit. See, Mercury's orbit is 461 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: not what it should have been, given the planet's momentum 462 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: and the gravitational influences on it that we knew about. 463 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: There's this phenomenon known as the precession of the parahelion 464 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: of Mercury. Real quick point, a parahelion is the point 465 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: of least distance from the Sun during an object's orbit, right, Yes, 466 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: it's the point when it comes closest. So essentially, the 467 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: precession of the parahelion of Mercury means that every year 468 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: on Mercury, every time Mercury goes around the Sun, its 469 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: orbits sort of shifts forward. So if you imagine getting 470 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: up on the north pole of the Sun and of 471 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: Mercury and looking down at the solar plane, um you're 472 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: looking down at Mercury's path with a time lapse tracing 473 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: its movement across the years. It would not repeat the 474 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: same path every year, but instead it would sort of 475 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: shift forward a bit with every trip around the Sun, 476 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: drawing more kind of a daisy pedal or spirograph type pattern. 477 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: And the question is what caused this? So fortunately the 478 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: astronomers of the nineteenth century were armed with that great 479 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: investigative tool in the history of science, the physics of 480 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: Isaac Newton, and the physics of Isaac Newton was extremely 481 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: good at predicting the movements of a planet by knowing 482 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: it's inertia, the uniform motion of the planet through space, 483 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: and by knowing gravity the mutual attraction to other centers 484 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: of mass that we're out there, and generally, Newton's laws 485 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: had proved really accurate, astonishingly good actually at predicting planetary motion. 486 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: And if you took into account all the relevant influences, 487 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: the physical influences we knew about, you could just predict 488 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 1: where the planets would go, except Mercury. And so Newton's 489 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: laws accounted for almost all of the observed procession of 490 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: the orbit of Mercury, but not quite all. There's still 491 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: just a bit of steady change in the planet's orbit 492 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: that stubbornly remained unexplained, making the orbit of Mercury this 493 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: stubborn and mysterious problem in Laverier's time. But in eighteen 494 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: forty five, Laverier he's working on a different problem. He 495 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: changes his focus briefly to focus on the curious case 496 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: of another planet in the Solar System. See I mentioned 497 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: earlier that we've known about the first six planets in 498 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: the Solar System since ancient times, but in the nineteenth 499 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: century astronomers were still dealing with a relatively recent edition. 500 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: And think about how weird this is, like too at 501 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: a time, for the first time in thousands of years, 502 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: that we knew about another planet, and that planet was 503 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: how do we say this planet's name on the podcast 504 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: Robert Do we just say Uranus? Well, Uranus is fun. 505 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: Is is more fun, It's more humorous. Um. I often 506 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: often say urin us, though that almost sounds like a uranist. 507 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: Like uranist, it's a professional urinator in many respects. It's 508 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: an unfortunately named planet. Yeah, it maybe could have been worse. 509 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: I don't know if this would be worse or not. 510 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: So it was discovered in seventeen eighty one Uranus. That 511 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: was Uranus. Sorry, that was the first time it was 512 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: seen by a human and it was by the German 513 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: born British astronomer William Herschel, who found the planet during 514 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: a survey of the stars, and he wanted to call 515 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: it not Uranus or Uranus, but George m Stas or 516 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: the Star of George, after King George the third of England. Uh. 517 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: And I'm glad that name got scrapped in in favor 518 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: of a much more dignified mythological anus reference. Yeah, even 519 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: even with the the anus right in there, it it 520 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: has more of a ring to it than than this Georgia. 521 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: UM citizen business. Well, I mean, oh, how horrible that 522 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: would be the name of planet after just like a 523 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: human king. Kings suck, Yes, absolutely, I mean kings, they 524 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: have all these other things. Let's at least leave their 525 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: names off of the planet. Yeah, stick to mythical references please. 526 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: But anyway, like Mercury, Uranus was this kind of like 527 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: sphear mysterious right. Uranus also wobbled in its orbit. Its 528 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: path around the Sun was different from what we would 529 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: predict given the gravitational influences that we knew about. So 530 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: Laverier took this mystery and he turned it into one 531 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: of the great success stories in the history of any 532 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: scientific theory. He conjured a planet out of the void, 533 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: and his assumptions were really simple. So he took the 534 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: known laws of physics. He took Newton's laws, and he 535 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: you know, given these laws, what could make Uranus orbit 536 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: as irregular as we observe? And the answer he came 537 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: up with was, well, another planet could do it. He 538 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: calculated how big that other planet would have to be 539 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: and where exactly would have to be in relation to Uranus, 540 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: and then he put that prediction to the test. He 541 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: wrote down his predictions in a letter to a German 542 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: astronomer named Johann Ji Gala and asked him to look 543 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: for this eighth planet with his instruments and using Laverier's predictions. 544 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: Gala found the planet Neptune after only about an hour 545 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: of looking for it, within one degree of exactly where 546 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: Laverier had predicted. And I should also just note that 547 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: an English astronomer named John c Adams also calculated the 548 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: position of the planet that would come to be known 549 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: as Neptune independently around the same time. But in both 550 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: cases they're essentially using the math to determine where this 551 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: this unknown planet would be. And then it is confirmed 552 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: that there is of course a planet there, and yeah, 553 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: and this is like the classic case of like when 554 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: when a scientific theory works best, right, when a scientific 555 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: theory tells you how things work in a way that 556 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: allows you to extrapolate from what you know to what 557 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: you predict you should find in the future, and then 558 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: you go out and look and you find exactly Yeah, 559 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,479 Speaker 1: you find exactly what you predicted. So this is like 560 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: a great win for Newton's theories. Right then, the prediction 561 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: was a huge success. It led to Laverier being given 562 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: all kinds of medals and honorary appointments and he was 563 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: eventually made the head of the Astronomical Observatory in Paris. 564 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: He had he had plucked Neptune out of space, armed 565 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: with nothing but the power of Newton's laws. And so 566 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: then after this, Laverier decides to go back to his 567 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: old subject. He turns his attention back to Mercury and 568 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: the problem of Mercuries. Or I think everybody can see 569 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: where we're going here, right, Yeah, so you can guess 570 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: what the temptation might be. Laverier had just achieved awesome 571 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: fame by predicting a previously undiscovered planet. What if there 572 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: was another? So he came up with a prediction for 573 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: something with mass very close to the Sun inside the 574 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: orbit of Mercury, maybe another asteroid belt or another planet. 575 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: It would be something with mass that that could cause 576 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: Mercury's orbit to wobble in the way he had measured 577 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: so precisely when making his tables. And then here's the 578 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: real kicker. Just like Neptune, this InterPlaNet was also discovered. 579 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: So here I want to rely on the work of 580 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: a of an author named Thomas Levinson from a book 581 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: called The Hunt for Vulcan from Random House in and 582 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: in an interview with nat Gio. Levinson describes the first 583 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: sighting of the planet at the bottom of the pit, 584 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: which was by an amateur French astronomer named Edmund Modesta 585 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: Lescarbot on March nine. So you've got that he's this 586 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: country doctor. Uh he was a country doctor by trade, 587 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: and he's got an observatory in a stone barn in 588 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: his backyard. Yeah, this is this is often the case 589 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: when we're talking about astronomy from this area. We're getting 590 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: into the realm of the gentleman scientist. Yes, yeah, he's 591 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: sort of like he dabbles. Maybe. So one day in 592 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty nine, less Garbo took a break in between 593 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: seeing patients and he went out to his telescope to 594 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: observe the Sun. And uh uh, and Levinson says quote, 595 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: as he trains his telescope on the Sun, he sees 596 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: a round object on the face of the Sun. He 597 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: times it as it moves steadily across the Sun, records 598 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: the data. Then another patient arrives, so he checks out 599 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: that patient, then comes back to the barn. This round 600 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: dot is still crossing the Sun. He tracks it continuously, 601 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: taking notes on its path until it finally goes over 602 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: the other edge of the Sun. And so after making 603 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: this observation, Lescarbo he reads about Laverier's prediction and he 604 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: gets all excited and he writes a letter to Laverier 605 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: describing what he saw crossing the disc of the Sun. 606 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: So Laverier had predicted this planet would be in there, 607 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: and then let's go bow saw it. And apparent Laverier 608 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: was at a New Year's Eve party when he got 609 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: the letter, and he just left and he's like, oh boy, 610 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: and he went out to Lescarbo's house, which was a 611 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: trip that Levinson said involved a train ride in a 612 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: twelve mile walk. So he was obviously excited. I mean, 613 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: you find one planet, you kind of get hooked on it, right, 614 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: We've got to find another. Um So lavery A confirmed 615 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: the observation, and this InterPlaNet got a name. It came 616 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: to be known as Vulcan. That's a good name because 617 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: Vulcan in in in the mythological senses, is close to 618 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: the forge. Yes, he's the forge, got exactly. He's the 619 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 1: Hifastus type figure. He's down there with the fires beating 620 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: the steel. And this triggered a period of what Levinson 621 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: called vulcan Mania. So Suddenly astronomers all over the world 622 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: are trying to find Vulcan, and quite a few reported 623 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: finding it, like during an eclipse in eighteen seventy eight. 624 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: Levinson tells the story that Thomas Edison happened to be 625 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: in the path of totality for a for a solar 626 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: eclipse in Wyoming, and he is there to try out 627 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 1: an infrared radiation since or he had created, which actually 628 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: did not work in the end, But so he's out 629 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: there for the eclipse and he ends up coming across 630 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: a pair of Vulcan hunters who were using the eclipse 631 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: to try to spot the planet, because obviously, if you 632 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: think about this, it's hard to see a planet that's 633 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: close to the Sun under normal circumstances. But if you 634 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: wait for a solar eclipse and the Moon blocks out 635 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: the light of the Sun, suddenly you can look up 636 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: there and say, okay, is there anything there. The two 637 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: Vulcan hunters here in the story where Simon Newcomb and 638 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: James Craig Watson, and the report goes that Newcomb could 639 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: not find the planet he looked for Vulcan during the eclipse. 640 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: He didn't see anything, but Watson said he saw it 641 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: he said a star was near the Sun which had 642 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: never been documented before. It was not on any of 643 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,720 Speaker 1: his charts, and it had to be the planet Vulcan. 644 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: In an article for Nautilus, Levinson writes about Watson, citing 645 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: quote Watson saw, very close to the limb of the Sun, 646 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: a ruddy star, just where Vulcan ought to have been. 647 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: So the discovery of Vulcan was reported in the New 648 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: Times in papers around the world. It was huge and 649 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: exciting news, and there were even cases were like doubters 650 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: and skeptics about Vulcan were sort of pooh pooed and 651 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: made fun of. But if you know your solar system now, 652 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 1: you might be wondering. Okay, so what happened? We didn't 653 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: memorize that one in school, right, So yeah, what happened 654 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: to Vulcan and vulcan Mania. Well, of course many others 655 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: simply failed to find the planet. Other people look for 656 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: it and never saw what the people who found it 657 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: said they saw. But what really killed it was a 658 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: change in the theoretical framework that had predicted it. That 659 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: change was what was brought about with Einstein in the 660 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,720 Speaker 1: theory of general relativity. So when Einstein devised his theory. 661 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,280 Speaker 1: One of the key elements is that space and time 662 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: may have their geometry altered by large amounts of mass 663 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: and energy, and that an object traveling close to a 664 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: massive object like a star would be effective by these 665 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: deformations of space time. And what Einstein found here was 666 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 1: that his theory, when he did the math, almost perfectly 667 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: predict did the precession of the parahelion of Mercury without 668 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: invoking any elusive hidden planets. Reportedly, you know, when Einstein 669 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: made these calculations and discovered that his theory had finally 670 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: explained the leftover bits of Mercury's wobble, he was so 671 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: excited that he felt heart palpitations and couldn't work for 672 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: days because here's this lingering mystery and astronomy. It had 673 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: led people to hypothesize phantom planets that weren't actually there. 674 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: And finally, just by re envisioning exactly how gravity worked 675 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 1: and what the shape of space time was, he had 676 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: explained it. Now with this new theory, it matched all 677 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: of the observations from the past. Like this is like 678 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: a Scooby Doo mystery, like the ghost is no longer 679 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: required because because he has pulled the mask off of 680 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: the villain and exposed it. Yeah, Einstein, he made a 681 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,959 Speaker 1: name for himself by killing a planet. Vulcan was dead. 682 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: But I like to think about and Levinson points out 683 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: some stuff about this too, the interesting fact that in 684 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: a way Laverier was sort of doing everything right right, 685 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: you know, he was like as a scientist, he was like, Okay, well, 686 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: I've got a theory that I think works right. You know, 687 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: you've got Newtonian mechanics. They they have made correct predictions before, 688 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: so I'll use them to make a prediction again, and 689 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: in much the manner of predictions that have worked out 690 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: in the past. And then you go to the tests 691 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: and say, okay, does anybody empirically confirm what I predicted? 692 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: And people did, Yeah, I mean this is I mean, 693 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: getting it wrong too is part of the process here. Uh. 694 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,080 Speaker 1: You form the best hypothesis based on the materials you 695 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: have to work with, and then eventually you know it's 696 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: going to be proven disproven or or or somewhere in between, 697 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: tweaked to account for new information about the world. I mean, 698 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: I wonder what was going on in the case of 699 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: the people who said that they saw Vulcan, Like, were 700 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: they I mean, was it just the case that these 701 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: were instances where people did see something and they were 702 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,720 Speaker 1: just confused about what it was, or were they cases 703 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 1: where people were so excited to you know, want to 704 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 1: see what they were expecting to see, that that it. 705 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, maybe they wouldn't have seen something otherwise, but 706 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: they just had their their biases going. Oh. I think 707 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: I think it was all of those. I mean, we've 708 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: talked about on the show before, the enthusiasm around spying 709 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: the canals of Mars, you know, um, and and certainly 710 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: that similar excitement involved there. But in this case we're 711 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: dealing with something that is perhaps even less obvious to 712 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: untrained eyes, perhaps just a little easier to fool yourself 713 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: on if you have just just the right amount of enthusiasm, 714 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: if you're gazing up at at an eclipse like which 715 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:47,359 Speaker 1: which even with appropriate gear, is an overwhelming situation, it's 716 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: emotionally arousing. Yeah, you might say, just a generally extreme proposition. Yes, 717 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: And and I'll advise it just in case we're not 718 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: clear here, do not listen to the show and go 719 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: out and stare at the sun looking for phantom planets, 720 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: right though, I would advise you do visit a solar observatory. Absolutely, yes. 721 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: Should we take a break and then explore one last 722 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: lost daughter of Aten? Let's do it. Alright, we're back. 723 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: So we've cast vulcan aside, vulcan Vulcans out, so dead. 724 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 1: So let's go through the planets. We have Wait a minute, 725 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: what about Antikathon always dead too? Was dead too? Matrol 726 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: Fire also gone. So we have Mercury, okay, Venus, Earth, Mars, 727 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: and then of course, oh okay, we'll see did you 728 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: say Phaeton? I said Phaeton? What is Phaeton? All right, yep, 729 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: this is the this is our next destination in the podcast, 730 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,400 Speaker 1: named for the son of Helios and Greek myth, and 731 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: this was the This was for a brief period, a 732 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: hypothetical planet between Mars and Jupiter. Now I know that 733 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: there is something between Mars and Jupiter. Well yeah, so 734 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,240 Speaker 1: we have the rubble of an asteroid belt between Mars 735 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: and the gas giant. So the hypothesis here, just to 736 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: get it out of the way right from the start, 737 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: is that the asteroid belt used to be a planet, 738 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: which we are going to call Phaeton. Okay, So it's 739 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: like in Star Wars. After the planet al durand gets 740 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: blown up by the Death's exactly. And they arrive in 741 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: the millennium falcon and what's there a bunch of like 742 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: rocks floating around in space that's sort of like the 743 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: asteroid belt after the planet Phaeton has been destroyed. Right, 744 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 1: So the basic idea here is Phaeton. The planet is 745 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,399 Speaker 1: gone and all we have is is rubble. Now why 746 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: name it Phaeton? This is pretty fun too. That's because 747 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: in mythology, um Phaeton borrows his dad's sun chariot, he 748 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: borrows the chariot of Helios, and I just guess guests 749 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: just goes on a wild ride on this thing and 750 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 1: just totally wipes out. So there are a number of 751 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: different paintings of him falling off the chariot of the Sun, 752 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: crashing the chariot of the Sun. Um. There's there's one 753 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: particular fresco eight fresco Um, this was done eight. This 754 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: is not an Internet humor thing, no, no, but it's 755 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 1: like it's like a fresco and you're looking up and 756 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: there is a Phaeton driving the chariot and he is, 757 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: as you said, you might say, straight porky, pigging it. 758 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: He's just he's wearing robes and all at least on 759 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: his torso, and it's just naked button genitals hanging out. 760 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,279 Speaker 1: This is absolutely the most prominent scrowdom I have ever 761 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: seen in a Renaissance painting. So I don't know, Maybe 762 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 1: he wrecked the chariot because he was wearing no pants. 763 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe, uh, maybe this is part of 764 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: the accident, like he's he's wiping out so bad that 765 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 1: his pants are just immediately vapor us. Well, no, I 766 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: think what we need to what we must accept, is 767 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: that actually this painting by Dominico Riccio, I don't know 768 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: if you said the name that I that's the painter here. 769 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: This painting here is anatomically correct. This is what a 770 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: chariot wreck would look like for god wearing robes. We 771 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: just normally are coddled by painters who must represent the 772 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: gods in a tasteful pose. This is like the cinema 773 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: verity of Renaissance painting of of classical gods. So I 774 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: highly recommend looking it up if you get a chance. Um, 775 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,280 Speaker 1: and maybe I'll include a link on the landing page 776 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: that though it will almost certainly not be the main 777 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: art for the episode. So so anyway, I know what 778 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: everyone's thinking or sorry, okay, I've got it. There's this 779 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,359 Speaker 1: idea that what's the asteroid belt doing there? Okay, maybe 780 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: it used to be a planet. But the way we 781 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: actually get to the formation of this Phaeton hypothesis is 782 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,479 Speaker 1: a lot more interesting than that. And it comes down 783 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:43,720 Speaker 1: again to UH, to the math, to a mathematical model, 784 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: and then and then someone saying, well, what what should 785 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: go here? What would what would make this model work? 786 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: What would fill in the missing blank or a planet? 787 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: Of course, so you're saying there's a mathematical UH prediction 788 00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: or mathematical theory that otherwise holds true, that the predicted 789 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,919 Speaker 1: other things accurately and would have predicted a planet where 790 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: the asteroid belt is right. And it all has to 791 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: do with what's known as UH the titches Bode law. 792 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 1: This is a hypothesis of planetary sequence named for Johan 793 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: Daniel Titchus and Johan Alert Bode. The two Johan's Johan 794 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: and Johan and um. This was in the Yeah. This 795 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: was proposed by German astronomer Tifis in seventeen sixty six 796 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 1: and popularized by Bode in seventeen seventy two. And and 797 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: to explain what all this is about, let's consider the 798 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,839 Speaker 1: sequence of planets again. This time you know what we 799 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: know mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. Now considered this 800 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:48,720 Speaker 1: sequence of numbers, Okay, zero, three, six, twelve, twenty four. 801 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: Each number after three is twice the previous number, So 802 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: zero and then three, and then we go to six, 803 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: then to twelve, and twenty four. Makes sense add four 804 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: to each of these numbers and then divide them by ten, 805 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:10,760 Speaker 1: and the result is as follows. Zero point four, zero 806 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: point seven, one point zero, one point six, two point eight, 807 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 1: five point two, ten point zero. Six of these numbers 808 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: closely approximate the distances of our planets from the Sun 809 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: in astronomical units or a use to refresh, one AU 810 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: is the rough distance between the Earth and the Sun. 811 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: So point four a use mercury point seven, Venus one 812 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 1: Earth naturally one point six, Mars two point eight not 813 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 1: a planet. Bunch of question marks. Five point two is 814 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 1: Jupiter and ten is Saturn. So what's going on with 815 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: two point eight? You're saying? Otherwise, the distance of the 816 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: planets from the Sun pretty closely followed this sequence of numbers. 817 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: In an orderly way right of the than the planets 818 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,879 Speaker 1: known to exist at the time, and and so um 819 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 1: boat especially he said, he there's a quote from me, 820 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: he says, can one believe that the founder of the 821 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,479 Speaker 1: universe had left this space empty? Right? How why would 822 00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 1: he mess with us like that? Right? I mean, but 823 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,759 Speaker 1: then I mean without invoking the almighty though, coming back 824 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: to just the pure math, you can see where they 825 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: would say, well, look this, this, this mathematical sequence lines 826 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: up otherwise perfectly with the with the distances of the planet. 827 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: So what's going on here? Yeah, you would have to 828 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: think if there if there were never a planet there, 829 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: that's just a really odd coincidence that all the other 830 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,320 Speaker 1: planets line up so well. Right. And the other important 831 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,400 Speaker 1: fact here is that at this time, uh, the asteroid 832 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: belt was not known, So there was just a blank spot. 833 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: They weren't even saying, oh, whether there should be a 834 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,840 Speaker 1: planet here, there's an asteroid belt. No, there just appeared 835 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 1: to be nothing. Now I do wonder if even though 836 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 1: they didn't know about the asteroid belt, would they know 837 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,400 Speaker 1: about some of the largest of the asteroids. Well, in 838 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: eighteen o one, they they began too, because that's when 839 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: we discovered the asteroid series, and our understanding of the 840 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: asteroid Belt began, and at first Series alone seemed to 841 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: be the answer, like, surely this was the planet only. 842 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,760 Speaker 1: Series is not a true planet. It's a minor planet 843 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 1: or dwarf planet, depending on how you want to classify it. 844 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: It's the thirty third largest known body in the Solar System, 845 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 1: and the asteroid Belt itself contains various smaller minor planets 846 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,960 Speaker 1: and irregularly shaped bodies. The total mass of these rocks, 847 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,440 Speaker 1: if you were to try a symbol of them all 848 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 1: into a planet, into a phaeton, if you will, would 849 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,920 Speaker 1: be about four percent of the Earth's moon and uh 850 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,320 Speaker 1: and so you know that's not quite a planet's worth. 851 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 1: And then the belt it's itself we when we we 852 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: know now that it was it formed in the Solar 853 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: nebula and would become, uh, that would become the Solar System. 854 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: But gravitational gravitational perturbations from Jupiter prevented the lumps from 855 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,879 Speaker 1: a creating into a planet. There was just too much 856 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: orbital energy. But the the idea here that they had 857 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: was that, okay, we're discovering all these pieces, maybe they 858 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,279 Speaker 1: are pieces of of of something else, something that was 859 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 1: there before. So Phaeton would have been that planet and uh, 860 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: and it would have at some point been destroyed, becoming 861 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 1: the asteroid belt. And we got to this point because 862 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 1: in eighteen o two, German astronomer Heinrich Villehelm math house 863 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 1: Overs proposed that these might be the remains of a planet, 864 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:30,480 Speaker 1: and then linguist Johan goldleb rat Luff proposed the name Phaeton. 865 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:32,840 Speaker 1: I mean, really he had the easy part. He just 866 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: came along and said, hey, call it Phaeton. Maybe he 867 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 1: was just a big fan of that painting. Yeah, maybe so. 868 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: And all of this was in line with what would 869 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 1: be known as disruption theory, which was the idea that 870 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 1: there was some former planet here that was destroyed by 871 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 1: Jupiter's gravity or a space collision, or some manner of 872 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,279 Speaker 1: internal turmoil or the effects of some other hypothetical, hypothetical 873 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: local cosmic body. But we know now that no such 874 00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: planet never existed, or at least the evidence is a 875 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: instant right, the evidence is against it. There was there, 876 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 1: there doesn't seem to have ever been something there to explode. Plus, uh, 877 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 1: the the Titches Bode law is now just considered a 878 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 1: mathematical curiosity and not only because phaeton didn't work out. Uh, 879 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 1: it is interesting that the sequence holds true for Uranus, 880 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,799 Speaker 1: which was discovered later in seventeen eighty one. Waiter, you 881 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,400 Speaker 1: are you abandoning ground on Urinus again? Um, well no, 882 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,480 Speaker 1: I could just I mean, we're already talking about phaeton 883 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: Um porky picking, and so I guess we can. We 884 00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: can use Uranus. The sequence holds true for Uranus as well, uh, 885 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 1: discovered in seventeen eighty one. Uh at nineteen eight years. 886 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Neptune and then Pluto break the sequence. 887 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 1: So the sequence, the law does not hold up to 888 00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,800 Speaker 1: the discovery of additional bodies in our solar system. Okay, 889 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,359 Speaker 1: so our apologies to the two yo Han's. But again, 890 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,280 Speaker 1: they were doing exactly what one should do. They were looking, 891 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: they were looking at the at the data they were 892 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,800 Speaker 1: they were looking at the observations, and they were trying 893 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 1: to figure out what was going on. Why why is 894 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,480 Speaker 1: the observable solar system not matching up with this mathematical 895 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 1: pattern that we have seen elsewhere. And then when they 896 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,960 Speaker 1: begin to discover something in the exact place where something 897 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,839 Speaker 1: should be to meet this sequence, I mean, that's compelling yeah, well, 898 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean it's just a reminder that of course, uh, 899 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, even when you're sort of when you're sort 900 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:33,560 Speaker 1: of like doing science right, like you're not out there 901 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,640 Speaker 1: just proposing ancient aliens because it feels good or something like. 902 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,880 Speaker 1: You know, you've got a theory that has a track 903 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,160 Speaker 1: record of of correctly uh predicting some things in the past, 904 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,719 Speaker 1: so you're you're trying to extrapolate to the future. That 905 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 1: that's in a way how science usually works when it 906 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,640 Speaker 1: works correctly, but it can still lead you astray, and 907 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: you've always gotta you've always just got to return to 908 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: the well of empirical observation and keep trying to figure 909 00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 1: things out and refining, you know, And you don't want 910 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:00,680 Speaker 1: to be too married to the idea that you're going 911 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,080 Speaker 1: to discover a planet, because then that can skew your 912 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: your observations and and just the the the overall integrity 913 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,080 Speaker 1: of what you're trying to do. There's nothing like the 914 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,840 Speaker 1: rush of discovering a planet. You you can tell people 915 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,879 Speaker 1: they were just like chomping for it. Like if if, 916 00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 1: for instance, if you were seeking to discover a counter 917 00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 1: Earth because you believe that to be hades you believed 918 00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 1: it to be uh, the nether realm, and that discovering 919 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,840 Speaker 1: it would then prove something some religious model that was 920 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,879 Speaker 1: important to you. Um you know that that that would 921 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,840 Speaker 1: be an example of of of over zealous exploration, like 922 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:42,320 Speaker 1: you're clearly you're uh, you know the the the exploration 923 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,239 Speaker 1: is out of whack at that point. That would make 924 00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,120 Speaker 1: for a pretty good sci fi story. Propose a principle 925 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,920 Speaker 1: known as let's call it h Phaeton's razor, where it 926 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: is you do not needlessly multiply gores. Yes, if you're 927 00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,840 Speaker 1: if your model of the Solar System can work without 928 00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,680 Speaker 1: the inclusion of a phantom planet, uh, then then then 929 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,759 Speaker 1: that's the direction you should go in. But however, is 930 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,520 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss in a future episode of Stuff 931 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,400 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind. Uh, that's not quite it. For 932 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,200 Speaker 1: phantom planets in our own Solar system. There there still 933 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,560 Speaker 1: remain uh uh you know, at least a one or 934 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,920 Speaker 1: two that are still talked about. Oh, yes, shall we return, 935 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 1: Yes we should, but we'll leave those phantom planets for 936 00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,880 Speaker 1: next time. Okay, all right. Uh. In the meantime, if 937 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,120 Speaker 1: you want to check out our homepage, it is Stuff 938 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:31,920 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot Com that's the mothership. That's 939 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,399 Speaker 1: where we'll find all the episodes and also a number 940 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,080 Speaker 1: of links. You'll find links to our various social media accounts. 941 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,080 Speaker 1: You'll find uh links to our our our little merchandise 942 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,439 Speaker 1: store where you can buy T shirts and uh uh 943 00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,799 Speaker 1: logos to stick on your laptops and street signs and 944 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,719 Speaker 1: what have you. Uh It's it's all there, and if 945 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: you want to support the show in a way, it 946 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:56,960 Speaker 1: doesn't cost you a dime. The best thing you can 947 00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,319 Speaker 1: do is rate and review stuff to blow your mind 948 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:00,920 Speaker 1: wherever you have the power to do so, And if 949 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,399 Speaker 1: you're not subscribed, make sure you're subscribed. Likewise, make sure 950 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,440 Speaker 1: that you have subscribed and that you've rated our show Invention, 951 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,480 Speaker 1: which comes out every Monday. It's a continual exploration of 952 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,839 Speaker 1: human techno history, one invention at a time. Big thanks, 953 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,120 Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producers Alex Williams and 954 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,600 Speaker 1: Tor Harrison. If you would like to get in touch 955 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,440 Speaker 1: with us directly with feedback about this episode or any other, 956 00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,759 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 957 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,480 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at blow the Mind 958 00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:42,279 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com For more on this 959 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,959 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, does it, how stuff works? 960 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:53,000 Speaker 1: Dot com bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl 961 00:53:53,480 --> 00:54:02,760 Speaker 1: bl bl bl b three three three three boys roper 962 00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,399 Speaker 1: pastised as far back