1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. I'm Katie Kuric, and I'm jumping back into 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: my next question feed to share an urgent conversation I 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: had with Dr Anthony Fauci about the latest COVID subvariant 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: and this other infectious disease outbreak, monkey pox. With more 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: than seventy thousand cases of monkey pox in nearly seventy countries, 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization has declared it a public health emergency. 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: We're going to get some answers on the state of 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: monkey pox, but we begin our conversation with Dr Fauci's 9 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: recent experience with COVID and how he's feeling now. I 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: was very fortunate in that, you know, I really had 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: a minor about with COVID and thankfully, UM, I don't 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: really appear to have any residual symptoms. You know, it's 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: kind of interesting when you're running a hundred miles an 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: hour to determine whether it's fatigued that you would have anyway, 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 1: or it's fatigue following infection. I'm chronically sleep the price symptoms, 16 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting. UM. I think it was like 17 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: on a Wednesday evening, as I was getting ready to 18 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: go to bed, I felt like a little scratchiness in 19 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: my throat, and I thought it wasn't a sore throat 20 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: by any means, And I thought maybe, as you know, 21 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: with the heat and the air conditioner and the dry air, 22 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: that it was causing some degree of scratchiness. But then 23 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: when I woke up in the morning, it was a 24 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: little bit more severe. So I thought I didn't feel 25 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: sick Hettie at all. I just said, let let me 26 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: take a test, and it took a test and it 27 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: came out strongly positive. So I went on pack Slovid 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: immediately and over the next eighteen now is I developed 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: a little bit of a sniffle um. I didn't feel great, 30 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: a bit mostly fatigued, which is very interesting. Fatigue is 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: a very important part of this, right. I went on 32 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: packs of it and and the symptoms disappeared, like within 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 1: eighteen hours. Yeah, but I was one of the ones 34 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: that had a bit of a rebound. I was going 35 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: to say, so many people are having this rebound where 36 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: the symptoms return, you test positive again after testing negative 37 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: the event, So why is that happening so much? Well, 38 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: you know, we don't know exactly why, but it may 39 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: be that when you take packs livid early on which 40 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: is the time you're supposed to take it, that you 41 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: don't give the body enough of a chance to respond 42 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: to the virus immunologically so that when you withdraw the 43 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: drug the virus comes back. But the good news about it, 44 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: and I think we really should and I hope, well, 45 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: I'm glad I'm talking to you about it too. Really, 46 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: UM dissolve confusion about this is that the packs of 47 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: it is doing exactly what you're asking it to do, 48 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: asking it to prevent you progressing to severe disease leading 49 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: to hospitalization. If you get UM laboratory test rebound for 50 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: a day or two and the re symptoms returned almost invariably, 51 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: it's very very mild, which means that the drug was 52 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: successful in doing what it's supposed to do in a 53 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: certain percentage of people. And we still don't know what 54 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: percent that is. It really varies. You know, the general 55 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: study show two and that other studies show maybe eight percent. 56 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: But when you talk to people, it seems that many 57 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: people who you speak to are getting this rebound. So 58 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what it is. But we should 59 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: not let that be a reason not to take packs Livid, 60 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: because packs Livid will keep you out of the hospital. 61 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: Good point. But meanwhile, the latest drain b A five 62 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: has per than to be not only more contagious, but 63 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: hospitalizations are on the rise. So how concerned are you 64 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: about this latest strain? Yeah, we have to be careful 65 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: about that, Katie, because I think that's a volume quantitative reason. 66 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: Let me explain. So, if you have a certain percentage 67 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: of people yet hospitalized, the hospitalized to total case ratio 68 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: that could still be very low. But when you get 69 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: so many more cases because of the inherent increase in transmissibility, 70 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: you will, purely by mathematical calculation, get more hospitalizations. So 71 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: even though they're reporting a hundred and twenty to a 72 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: hundred and forty thousand new cases per day, it is 73 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: very likely, in fact, I'm certain that the actual number 74 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: is much higher because us there are so many people 75 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: who are home testing. They get a positive test, they 76 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: either have minimal symptoms or no symptoms at all, but 77 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: they don't report the test to anybody. So the hundred 78 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: and thirty hundred and forty thousand might actually be three 79 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: or four times that amount. So even though the hospitalizations 80 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: are going up, which is not an acceptable thing. We 81 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: don't want hospitalizations to go up, and we certainly don't 82 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: want deaths to go up. But the thing that's concerning 83 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: to me is that the deaths are still hanging around 84 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: three to four hundred a day. And if you do 85 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: the math on that, you know you're talking over a 86 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: hundred thousand deaths per year, which is a very unacceptable 87 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: number of deaths. So we've got to get that number 88 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: very much lower than that. And you do that, like 89 00:05:54,279 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: the common common sense public health measures. If you're not vaccinated, 90 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: get vaccinated. If you are not up to date on 91 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: your boosts, get boosted. If you're in a setting where 92 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: you're concerned about whether or not you're infected, even though 93 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: you don't have symptoms, tests are widely available and free. 94 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: If you do get infected and a test is positive 95 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: and you are in a risk category, go on packs 96 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: a limit. If you're in an indoor congregate setting and 97 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: you go to the computer and click on the CDC 98 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: map and you see that the county that you're in 99 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: is an orange or a red zone, then when you're 100 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: in a congregate indoor setting, wear a mask. You know, 101 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: when we're not talking about you know, the radioactive statements 102 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: of mask mandates. We're talking about common sense recommendation that 103 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: if there's a lot of infection dynamics, it's prudent when 104 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: you're in an indoor congregate settings. Where on that are 105 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: most of the hospitalizations involving unvaccinated individuals. Yeah, if you 106 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: look at the difference between what is the fold increase 107 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: in in in hospitalizations and death among people who are 108 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: completely unvaccinated versus people who are vaccinated but not up 109 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: to date on boosts and people who have vaccinated and 110 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: up to date on boots, the difference in hospitalization is 111 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly higher proportionately of people who are unvaccinated. Now, some 112 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: vaccinated people who are at high risk either very elderly, frail, 113 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: underlying immune compromise. Those people can, in fact and do 114 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: go on to hospitalization and some of them die. But 115 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: when you compare on a case by case basis, it's 116 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: overwhelming evidence is that unvaccinated people are at a multi 117 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: multi full risk more of a getting getting hospitalization and dying. 118 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: A lot of my followers are asking, though Dr Fauci 119 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: about additional boosters, and they're saying it doesn't seem to 120 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: be efficacious. Some of against some of these new strains. 121 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: So what is the point. Well, that's a great question, 122 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: and that's why we keep and and it's an understandable 123 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: source of confusion. But look at the data. What are 124 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: we asking the vaccines to do. We're asking predominantly that 125 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: they prevent us from getting significantly ill, particularly needing to 126 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: go to the hospitalization. Now we're getting people who are 127 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: vaccinated and boosted who are getting infected, like me, like 128 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: the President of the United States. But what the vaccine 129 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: does is really very nicely prevent you from progressing to 130 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: severe disease. Now, what we do need and just yesterday 131 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: you may have heard, we had a vaccine summit at 132 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: the White House which I talk about what the next 133 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: generation of vaccines will look like and what we do 134 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: need all vaccines for the future that will give you 135 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: a greater breath and durability of infection, as well as 136 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: a new form of vaccine that you could administer internasally, 137 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: which will protect you more from getting infected as well 138 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: as transmitting sort of a pan coronavirus vaccine. I know 139 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: you talked about, but that sounds complicated and potentially very difficult. 140 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: How realistic is that? And when do you think something 141 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: like that might be available. Well, you know the holy 142 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: grail of a truly pan corona navirus that means every 143 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: type of coronavirus. As I mentioned in my lecture at 144 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: the Vaccine Summit yesterday, you want to take incremental steps 145 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: at a time and start off with a pan saws 146 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: Kobe two vaccine that gets all of the different variants 147 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: that we've already experienced, as well as any variant of 148 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: that particular virus that we might experience in the future, 149 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: like this fall or this winter. The next step is 150 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: to get a pan sub eco virus, which is that 151 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: group of coronaviruses that are clustered around the bad human interface, 152 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: so that if we get another jumping of the species 153 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: from an animal to a human, we'll be able to 154 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: have a vaccine that protects. And then the ultimate holy 155 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: grail is to get one that includes all coronavirus is 156 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: including the common cold coronavirus. Now that's aspirational. The first 157 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: step that I mentioned, I think realistically it's going to 158 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: take a couple of years. Really, I think we'd love 159 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: to have it five months from now. It's to get 160 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: it proven to be safe and effective in a big study. 161 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: It's not going to happen in the next few months. 162 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: So basically it has become what you said, sort of endemic, 163 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: as something we pretty much just have to live with. 164 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: And you know, by the way, Dr Fauci, people are 165 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: getting this like two or three times. I mean, is 166 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: there any limit to the number of times somebody can 167 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: actually get this virus? Yeah? Most of the time, when 168 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: you get repeated infection with the same or a similar 169 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: related coronavirus, you have enough infection immunity built up that 170 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: you may get infected, but it is unlikely, not impossible, 171 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: but unlikely that you will progress to severe disease. If 172 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: you look, Katie at the history of common cold coronavirus, 173 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: is you and I throughout our lives every winter would 174 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: get infected literally with the same virus we got infected 175 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: two years ago or three years ago. I mean not 176 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: so much now when you're an adult, but even as 177 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: you're a child and you're building up community kids, well, 178 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: I know you and I went through the same thing. 179 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: I mean, there was a period of time when my 180 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: three daughters were growing up, I spent half my time 181 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: blowing my nose. Uh. And that's just one of the 182 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: things when kids bring home infections. But the encouraging news 183 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: about that is that the subsequent infections of the same 184 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: virus in almost invariably in medicine, you never say always, 185 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: when you never say never, but almost in very able, 186 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: it's going to be a less severe infection. So what 187 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: we're trying to do is to get this virus to 188 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: a low enough level in society that it doesn't dramatically 189 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: perturb the social order. And by the social order, I 190 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: mean the economy, going to school, going to work, you know, 191 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: worrying and looking over your shoulder that you're gonna inadvertently 192 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: infect a person who's you know, compromised, and you'll wind up, 193 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, having someone get ill because of your association 194 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: with them. We're not at that level yet, Katie, because 195 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: I mean, having you know, several hundred thousand infections a day, 196 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: having three to four hundred deaths, having forty people in 197 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: the hospital is not the endemic level that we should 198 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: choose to say we're going to live with it. We've 199 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,719 Speaker 1: got to get it much lower, and there are things 200 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: that we can do to get there. Unfortunately, given the 201 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: fatigue that we have this country from two and a 202 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: half years of this, everyone is tired of it. So 203 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: it's very difficult. Super imposed upon an anti vax type 204 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: feeling among some, super imposed upon the political divisiveness we 205 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: have in this country, which you know, and and the 206 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: social media misinformation and disinformation, it's very difficult to get 207 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: people to adhere to common sense public health measures. After 208 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: the break, how concerned should we all be about monkey pops? 209 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: Right after this, let's move on, by the way, to 210 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: monkey pops. I mean, as of right now at the 211 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: end of July, four thousand cases documented here in the 212 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: US effect men who have sex with other men. The 213 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: virus was first discovered in So why are we seeing 214 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: this now, Well, it's the issue. First of all. Monkey 215 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: poks is a virus that is endemic in certain Central 216 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: African and West African countries. It almost invariably goes from 217 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: an animal jumps to a human and with some exceptions 218 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: at least up to now, we're investigating if anything has 219 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: changed recently. But in sub Saharan Africa, in Central Africa particularly, 220 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: it usually when it gets into the human host, it 221 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: is a dead end. It doesn't have a chain of 222 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: transmission that is prolonged. What looks like it happened, and 223 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: we have to make sure we nail this down epidemiologically. 224 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: Is that associated with gay pride, galias and get togethers 225 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: that it got inserted. The virus did into a population 226 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: where the modality of spread, which is close skin to 227 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: skin contact as you would have in an sexual encounter, 228 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: not exclusively in the in the sexual encounter, but when 229 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: you have multiple sexual partners where you don't know the 230 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: status of that person. That is a very easy way 231 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: for a virus to spread within a demographic group. So 232 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: something happened and it was likely someone who was infected 233 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: in an African setting got into a setting of a 234 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: sexual network and then you wind up it now having 235 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: very much predominantly in menos sex with men. Now, the 236 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: the issue we face, that's a sensitive issue there is 237 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: that we want to make sure that we need to do, 238 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: you know, four pillars on this. We very unlike the 239 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: way things were in the early years of HIV when 240 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: we didn't know what the agent was, We didn't have 241 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: a diagnostic, we didn't have a therapy, and we still 242 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: in fact don't have a vaccine. We were like swimming 243 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 1: in the dark. Right now, we have a vaccine, we 244 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: have testing, and we have therapeutics and we've got to 245 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: reach out into the community to alert both the community 246 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: and the physicians and healthcare providers that take care of 247 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: them that we have a problem now that's spreading. So 248 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: since we have knowledge of the ideologic agent and we 249 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: have interventions, the real challenge is to get in an 250 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: expeditious manner those interventions to the people that need them. 251 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: We started off with very few tests, six thousand a week. 252 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: We now have eighty thousand a week. We know, we 253 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: know we have a vaccine that works. We've got to 254 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: get it, you know, from where it was stockpiled into 255 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: the market. Yeah, and and get it distributed. And right 256 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: now things are looking much much better. You know, we 257 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: have three hundred and some a thousand already distributed. We're 258 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: gonna have another four hundred thousand distributed very soon, and 259 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: then we have another additional eight hundred thousand that we're 260 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: gonna be able to get out. We hope, and I 261 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: think we will do that expeditiously. And we also got 262 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: to cut down and we are doing that. The CDC 263 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: and the FDA are doing that now. Cut down the 264 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: paperwork and the logistics um hoops that you have to 265 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: run through to a therapy into someone, right, because according 266 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: to the CDC, people are expected to survive monkey pops. 267 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: But but you've said you're worried about children and pregnant 268 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: women in particular. Why is that Because historically, if you 269 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: look at what monkey Pops has done in Africa and 270 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: what monkey pox is capable of doing, the susceptible people 271 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: are those who are immune compromised. Young children and pregnant 272 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: women have a greater likelihood of getting a more severe 273 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: outcome if they get infected. That's what I was referring to. 274 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: So a lot of people wanted me to ask you, 275 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: Dr Fauci, if monkey pox can be transmitted via airborne exposure, 276 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: how likely is that? And while we're on the subject, 277 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: if I am in the company of someone who was 278 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: diagnosed with monkey pox, what are my next steps? Yeah? Well, 279 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: first of all, you've got to make sure that there's 280 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: no misunderstanding. On the one hand, balancing not panicking people 281 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: and on the other hand, being realistic about what we know. 282 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: So right now we are studying the CDC together with 283 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: the nih IS the natural history of this virus. We 284 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: generally know how it acts and acted in Southern Africa, 285 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: but we want to make sure we understand that there's 286 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: nothing different about this and thus far, thus far, it 287 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: looks like virtually all of the epidemiological of detective work 288 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: that has been done indicates that it requires close skin 289 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: to skin contact with someone who has lesions of the 290 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: monkey pocks. There's very little, if any, in fact, no 291 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: data to indicate even though we keep an open mind 292 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: that it is spread by any other way. We do 293 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: know from experience with smallpox and monkey pox that it 294 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: can be spread through contaminated clothing or or other fomites 295 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: call it inanimate objects. So right now, if when you 296 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: say if you get exposed to someone with it, I 297 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: mean if you're a healthcare provider, you know that's the 298 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: reason why we want to vaccinate the healthcare providers, because 299 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: they are exposed to people who come into an emergency room. 300 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: Where people who come into a situation. Should you want 301 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: to isolate a person while they're shedding virus. But the 302 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: thing we have to be careful of, and that's the 303 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: reason why we want to get a lot of reaching 304 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: out into the community, is that not everybody is fully aware. 305 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: I mean, few have a very painful lesion that spread 306 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: all over you. It's very clear that you have monkey pocks, 307 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: but in some cases it may not be so clear. 308 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: So you want to educate the community of what they 309 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: need to look out for. But I would not want 310 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: to say that people need to worry about being near somebody, 311 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: because then you get stigma, and stigma is the enemy 312 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: of public health. So we shouldn't be saying, well, now 313 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: the entire population is at high risk. It's not. We're 314 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: going to keep an eye on what we call the 315 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: natural history and the evolution of this. This is mostly 316 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: a CDC issue. The n i H will continue to 317 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: do research with clinical trials to talk about vaccines and 318 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: therapies and things like that, but it's going to be 319 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: mostly trying to track the natural history of this, and 320 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: the more we track of it, the more knowledge will have, 321 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: and the more knowledge will have, the more concrete recommendations 322 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: can be made. And of course we have to have 323 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: a public health conversation without stigmatizing and ostracizing gay men, 324 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 1: which of course happened during the AIDS. Academic, what are 325 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: your biggest concerns about where this outbreak is going? Dr Fauci, Well, 326 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: I think that really the concern is that you may 327 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: have a situation where it becomes much more um aggressively 328 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: spreading within the population at risk, as well as any 329 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: spillover infections, namely from a person who is infect it 330 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: who inadvertently would infect someone else, which is the reason 331 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: why you've got to have an all hands on deck 332 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: approach to alertness, reaching out into the community and making 333 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: available testing, vaccination, and therapy. You just hope COVID fatigue 334 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:22,239 Speaker 1: won't prevent people from taking this seriously. Well, you know, 335 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: we've often heard and I've heard, oh my god, we've 336 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: had COVID for two and a half years and now 337 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: we have monkeypox. It's a reality. We've got to deal 338 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: with it. We just have to deal with it, and 339 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: and that's it. We can't wish it away. We've got 340 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: to address it and deal with it. And that's the 341 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: reason why, as I mentioned a moment ago, we've got 342 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: to get the interventions to the people who need them 343 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: in a very expeditious manner. And we've got to make 344 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: sure that we don't stigmatize a segment of our population, because, 345 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: as I've said, way back from the from the early 346 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: years of HIV and now the enemy here is the 347 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: virus that's all pulled together to fight the virus and 348 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: not the pointing fingers or anything like that. Meanwhile, Rampaul 349 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: has been such a thorn in your side. Dr Fauci 350 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: asking questions about gaining a function research the Chinese lab 351 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: and Wuhan threatening to launch a probe. What is your 352 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: response to that, you know, I I don't really have 353 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: any response to that, Katie. I mean a couple of 354 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: papers have come out now in Science magazine from thirty 355 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: investigators from twenty countries that have really shown a lot 356 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: of a lot of very clear scientific data about the 357 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: evolution and the origin of this. So, you know, we 358 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: always keep an open mind. But you know, you could 359 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: continue to pursue and and and tweet conspiracy theories. But 360 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 1: let's look at the science um with regard to what 361 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: he's going to investigate. I mean, we're an open book. 362 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: I'm we have been all along. So there's nothing that 363 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: the scientific community in the United States has to hide 364 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: at all, that's for sure. After the break, is Dr 365 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: Fauci really retiring, We'll have some answers right after this. 366 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: You've announced your stepping down at the end of President 367 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: Biden's first term. Gosh, what a career you've had. Dr 368 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: fauci in public service. When you think back at all 369 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: the challenges you've faced and everything that you've accomplished, what 370 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: are you proudest of? Right? Well, first of all, let 371 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: me make a correction, Katie and you, being a journalist 372 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: as it were, no this could happen Politico. Yes, no, no, no, 373 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: it's a misperception, and I'll clarify it for you. Political 374 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: asked me, I think it was George Stefanopolis a long 375 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: time ago, and said, you know you you've been there 376 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: this a long time. You know when do you think 377 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: you'll you'll you'll step down? And said, Jesus George, I 378 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just working very hard at it. Then 379 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: someone asked me after that, because the idea of my 380 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: stepping down came up. They said, if Donald Trump became 381 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: president in January, would you serve under him? And I said, 382 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: very honestly and innociently, whether Donald Trump or another Republican 383 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: becomes president or Joe Biden gets a second term, I 384 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: do not plan to be in this job by January. 385 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: That headline was I'm staying at the job until January. 386 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: That's not the case. I said, I will not be 387 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: at the job on January, which means I will retire 388 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: from federal service anyway between now and then, and I 389 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: haven't made up my mind when that's gonna be. And 390 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: one little footnote to that, what I jokingly but seriously 391 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: object to is the word retired, because when I stepped 392 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: down from federal service, I will continue to do in 393 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: a different venue the things that you were asking me 394 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: about in my career. What do I feel the proudest of, Well, 395 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: certainly there are there are things that that I I 396 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: naturally feel proud of. Is that my fifty four years 397 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: at the n i H, my you know, curing earlier 398 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: before AIDS diseases that we're rare, but we're quite deadly 399 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: certain inflammatory diseases, establishing the AIDS program at the ni H, 400 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: being an important part of the development of therapies that 401 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: have saved millions of lives, Being the principal architect with 402 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: the George W. Bush, our president then of the PEPFAR program, 403 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: which is saved about twenty million lives, and having the 404 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: honor and the privilege of serving seven presidents. So those 405 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: are the things that I've done in the past, and 406 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: some version of that I will very likely continue in 407 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: a different venue when I leave the Federal service. What 408 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: about being a professor at your beloved alma mater, Holy Cross. 409 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: You know, anything is possible. I'm not thinking about that 410 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: in any concrete terms right now, Katie, because I'm as 411 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not. I'm not fooling you. I'm pretty 412 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: busy right now. Well, thank you, Dr Fauci for your 413 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: time and constant presence and for dealing with all these 414 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: crises with such equanimity and helping to reassure the American people. 415 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. But I bet you've ever seen 416 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: such politicization in your job as you have in this 417 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: most recent round with the coronavirus. And it must cause 418 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: you to shake your head. And it's very disturbing, Katie. 419 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: And the reason it's disturbing because it really is one 420 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: of the things that you least want to see when 421 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: you're fighting a global pandemic. If ever there was a 422 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: time for all of us to pull together, it's when 423 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: you have a historically deadly pandemic that has killed a 424 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: million Americans thus far, and we're having such misinformation and 425 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: disinformation and conspiracy theories and outright untruths being circulated in 426 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: the social media. That's terrible. That's terrible. We'll keep fighting 427 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: the good fight. Dr Fauci, and thanks again for your 428 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: time anytime, Katie, always get to be with you. Take care, 429 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: by the way. Next Question listeners on Gary not for 430 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: season six? Can you believe it? Of my podcast which 431 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: is coming to you on September twenty nine. But you 432 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: know me, I just can't stop asking questions. I have 433 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: a real issue with that. So I'm going to be 434 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: in and out of this feed throughout August and the 435 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: early fall sharing any fun or important conversations I'm having. 436 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: So keep subscribing to stay on top of it all 437 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: and have a safe and healthy summer. Next Question with 438 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: Kati Kurik is a production of My Heart Media and 439 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: Katie Couric Media. The executive producers Army, Katie Curic, and 440 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers 441 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and 442 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: mixed by Derrick Clements. For more information about today's episode, 443 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: or to sign up for my morning newsletter wake Up Call, 444 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: go to Katie Currek dot com. You can also find 445 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: me at Katie Curic on Instagram, and all my social 446 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: media chan annals. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 447 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 448 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H