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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had the Money.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel and I am Matt.

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Speaker 1: And today we're talking life after financial independence with the

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Speaker 1: Mad Scientist.

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Speaker 3: That's right, we are actually talking with Brandon Gansch, also

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Speaker 3: known as the Mad Fientist. And you might already notice

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Speaker 3: that it sounds a little bit different than it typically

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Speaker 3: does when we record a How to Money episode. This

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Speaker 3: is because we are doing a field recording. We are

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Speaker 3: actually in Scotland. Joel and I we took a trip

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Speaker 3: with our wives and we happen to find our way

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Speaker 3: down where it is that Brandon lives with his wife

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Speaker 3: and his new son. So first of all, Brandon, he's

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Speaker 3: originally a programmer. He is a music producer, creates his

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Speaker 3: own own music. He is a blogger, he's a podcaster,

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Speaker 3: and we're going to talk about all of the things

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Speaker 3: that he is up to. This is going to be

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Speaker 3: maybe a little more of a non traditional episode here

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Speaker 3: for How to Money, but we wanted to be able

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Speaker 3: to bring something fun and interesting to all of you

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Speaker 3: folks out there. So Brandon, thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: joining us today on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thank you guys for coming all the way to Scotland.

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Speaker 2: It's not often that people make their way all the

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Speaker 2: way out to where we are. So I appreciate you

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Speaker 2: guys coming by.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, we wanted to come to Scotland, wanted

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Speaker 1: to hang out with you, two to drink Scotch and

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Speaker 1: three to enjoy the scenery. But our first question to

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Speaker 1: every guest we have on the show, Brandon is as

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Speaker 1: you know, what is your craft beer equivalent? Matt and

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Speaker 1: I love craft beer, and we spend way too much

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Speaker 1: money on it while we're saving and investing wisely for

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Speaker 1: the future. So what is that expense in your life?

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Speaker 1: So used to be Kraft beer.

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Speaker 2: I am also, and that's how we met and how

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Speaker 2: we formed our close friendship is that we do have

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Speaker 2: a very similar appreciation of Kraft beer. So it used

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Speaker 2: to be that. But nine months ago we had a son,

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Speaker 2: and now I can drink maybe half a half a

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Speaker 2: craft beer before I want to fall asleep. So our

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Speaker 2: craft beer consumption has drastically declined just because we can't

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Speaker 2: stay awake long enough to enjoy it properly. But now

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Speaker 2: it seems to be synthesizers, which actually this year I

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Speaker 2: haven't spent too much on synthesizers today this year, this

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Speaker 2: year was mostly buying a house, which we haven't owned

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Speaker 2: a house for almost ten years, and now that we

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Speaker 2: have a son, our jet setting lifestyle is over for

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Speaker 2: the time being, which I'm perfectly happy with. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: this year has been house but in the in the

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Speaker 2: past few years has been synthesizers, which you are now

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Speaker 2: surrounded by this in this makeshift studio that I just

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Speaker 2: set up for you. Guys.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there are multiple moog since sitting here. Honestly, I

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Speaker 3: wish I knew more about them, But maybe we'll talk

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Speaker 3: a little bit more about that after.

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Speaker 2: Hey, we can fire them up and we can have

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Speaker 2: forty five minutes of just weird bleeps and bloops and

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Speaker 2: you'll think our two DT's are two detas was in

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Speaker 2: the room. But yeah, we could do that if you want.

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Speaker 3: Just love me, know I love it. I love it

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Speaker 3: all right, Brandon. So, first of all, honestly, I'm not

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Speaker 3: totally sure of your financial history. I would love to

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Speaker 3: know how it is that you got to learn about

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Speaker 3: basically how to handle your own money. Was this something

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Speaker 3: that y'all talked about within your own household. Was this

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Speaker 3: something that you formally learned or is it something yeah,

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Speaker 3: maybe that you figured out on your own.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know where it came from, but I

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Speaker 2: loved money ever since I was a kid. My parents

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Speaker 2: have stories of you know, throwing quarters into the deep

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Speaker 2: end of the pool, and as soon as I found one,

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Speaker 2: then I would spend like five hours searching the deep

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Speaker 2: end of the pool to find them. And then my

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Speaker 2: grandma actually was like, yeah, you went home after that

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Speaker 2: night and you called back and said, did anyone find

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Speaker 2: any more money in the pool. So I really don't

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Speaker 2: understand where it comes from. But I always loved money.

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Speaker 2: And then as I got older, I loved math and

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Speaker 2: I appreciated the fact that hey, you could invest this

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Speaker 2: money and then it would grow. So my dad bought

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Speaker 2: me five stock certificates back when they actually had them

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Speaker 2: on paper, and so I would look in the newspaper

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Speaker 2: to see how my stocks were doing. And you know,

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Speaker 2: this was back in the days where it was like

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Speaker 2: fifty five and one eighth and all this sort of stuff,

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Speaker 2: and I'd look and I'd be like, oh, that's good.

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Speaker 2: It was it was fifty five yesterday, So this is

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Speaker 2: I'm making money. So I don't know, because my brother's

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Speaker 2: he's good with money, but he's not obsessed with money

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Speaker 2: like I was. So I think there's some innate money

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Speaker 2: loving in my life. But yeah, I guess the fact

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Speaker 2: that I do love math and I can appreciate even

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Speaker 2: though I can't like fully comprehend like compound interests, like

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Speaker 2: it's still a difficult thing to like visualize and imagine,

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Speaker 2: but I think I appreciated it more than the average person.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's so funny because I feel like my

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Speaker 1: fascination with money, or the way I started off, was

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Speaker 1: so much more emotional than mathematical. My parents not handling

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Speaker 1: money terribly well, and it becoming just like this this

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Speaker 1: thing in our family that and me at a particular

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Speaker 1: age where I was more susceptible to feeling a different

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Speaker 1: sense of what was happening in our family than my

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Speaker 1: younger sister who was too young to understand, my older

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Speaker 1: sister who was kind of in high school hanging out

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Speaker 1: with boys. And I'm in this middle school Joel, who

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Speaker 1: is particularly vulnerable to kind of what's going on with

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Speaker 1: the family finances. So I'm curious, and so much of

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Speaker 1: your content on Mad Scientists on your website has really

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Speaker 1: revolved around a lot of the mathematics, around money. The

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Speaker 1: way you write about kind of handling taxes and retirement accounts,

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Speaker 1: you've really you really dove into the weeds. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like when you started there was no other source

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Speaker 1: on the web talking about money really in such like

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Speaker 1: an approachable but also nuanced a way. So kind of

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Speaker 1: what made you dive so deeply into how to handle

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Speaker 1: money from like a financial independence perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a really good point because I

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Speaker 2: guess was my age maybe when my parents got divorced

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Speaker 2: and then it was mainly my mom raised in two boys,

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Speaker 2: and you know, money was always tight and we it

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Speaker 2: was always a focus, and it was never to be wasted.

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Speaker 2: And maybe maybe I've never really thought about it like that,

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Speaker 2: but I think that's a really good point. Like my

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Speaker 2: age at that time really understood that, whereas maybe my

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Speaker 2: brother was like, everything's fine, we have everything we need,

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Speaker 2: and we always did have everything we needed, and I

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Speaker 2: never felt like we were wanting for anything. But I

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Speaker 2: also realized how important it was to not waste the money.

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Speaker 2: So I think I think that's a really good point

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Speaker 2: because I think one my age at the time of

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Speaker 2: you know, the divorce and maybe going off and being

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Speaker 2: raised by my mom predominantly allowed me to appreciate money.

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Speaker 2: But then also as a kindergartener having a divorce and

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Speaker 2: being like feeling like you're sort of out of control.

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Speaker 2: Then the math math doesn't lie, and you can plan.

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Speaker 2: You know, you can plan really and like the math

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Speaker 2: doesn't lie if you if you follow these steps and

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Speaker 2: you add that much and it's going to grow at

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Speaker 2: this much, then that works. So I think maybe that's

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Speaker 2: what could have driven the later stuff that, like the

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Speaker 2: actual mad mind is stuff. It's like, Okay, I have

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Speaker 2: this control over my life and maybe as a kid,

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Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I had that control. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: really deep. Maybe we've maybe we've broken through some here

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Speaker 2: and I can understand myself a little better.

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Speaker 3: Tools might might be taken a leaf out of his

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Speaker 3: wife's book when it comes to counseling, But.

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Speaker 2: I think that's that's so true.

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Speaker 3: We talk about the different ways that we seek to

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Speaker 3: create control or you know, we try to create order

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Speaker 3: within our lives.

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Speaker 2: And just the world.

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Speaker 3: It seems like a very chaotic place. And so if

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Speaker 3: there's a way that you can basically put your finger

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Speaker 3: on it, I completely understand the desire from an analytical

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Speaker 3: standpoint to control something and to understand how it is

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Speaker 3: that something works where it feels like it's not just

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Speaker 3: completely going off the rails. But so for you, that

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Speaker 3: was certainly a personal sort of way that you saw

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Speaker 3: that manifest in your in your life. How is it

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Speaker 3: that you came about actually then publicly writing about personal

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Speaker 3: finances and specifically I guess launching the mad Fientist blog.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that that was the really exciting thing. So

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Speaker 2: so yeah, I have to go back. I'm in my

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Speaker 2: late twenties. My twenties, I had all these big plans

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Speaker 2: like this is how I was going to live my life,

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Speaker 2: and I was going to create all these amazing things,

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Speaker 2: and I was really excited about it. And then the

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Speaker 2: twenties just grind grinded on. And then when I turned thirty,

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Speaker 2: I had this meltdown. It was like a middle life crisis.

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Speaker 2: But when I was thirty, it was very embarrassing, which

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Speaker 2: it's a funny story now, but it was super embarrassing

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Speaker 2: at the time. We went up to jp Vermont, I

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Speaker 2: had I don't know, like eight six or eight friends

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Speaker 2: that we went skiing. We had a great day skiing.

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Speaker 2: I turned thirty and I was like, what have I

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Speaker 2: done with my life? I've done nothing. Jill, my now wife,

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Speaker 2: was a girlfriend at the time, took that personally, like,

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Speaker 2: what do you mean You've done nothing? Like we've built

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Speaker 2: this amazing life together. I'm like, I've done nothing. I

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Speaker 2: had this it was embarrassing. Everyone went to bed sad

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Speaker 2: and we after this great day of skiing. And but

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Speaker 2: it was because I felt like that, because I like,

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Speaker 2: I hadn't accomplished anything that I thought I wanted to accomplish.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't built anything I wanted to build. I overanalyzed

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Speaker 2: everything that I wanted to do, like I would just

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Speaker 2: overanalyze it to death until I thought it was a

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Speaker 2: stupid idea. And that's I created the Medfcientist a few

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Speaker 2: days later because I was like, I'm so excited about

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Speaker 2: this idea of financial independence. Because I got introduced by

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Speaker 2: to financial independence through get rich slowly, which those three

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Speaker 2: words or exactly what I wanted to do. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just want to get rich slowly, Like don't I

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Speaker 2: don't want to live a flashy lifestyle or anything. I

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Speaker 2: just want to get rich slowly. I want to be comfortable,

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Speaker 2: I want to be secure, I want to be able

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Speaker 2: to do what I want because throughout my life, I've

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Speaker 2: always felt like I've known best and like I, like

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Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, like I do like control, and I

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Speaker 2: like I've thought about things more than the average person.

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Speaker 2: So like taking instructions from a boss that I didn't

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Speaker 2: feel like they understood everything was very hard for me.

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Speaker 2: So like, I wanted to get to a place where

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Speaker 2: I could call the shots and be secure and all

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Speaker 2: of that thing. So when I found get rich Slowly,

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what I'm gonna do.

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Speaker 2: I want to do it properly. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: just do the next fad. I just want to get

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Speaker 2: rich slowly. And then he interviewed Jacob Lenfisker, and Jacob

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Speaker 2: had written a book called Early Retirement Extreme, and he

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Speaker 2: laid out the math and it was just so simple.

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Speaker 2: But I'd never thought of it in that way before,

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Speaker 2: and it was just, okay, yeah, you can stop working.

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Speaker 2: Retirement's not an age. It's a time when your assets

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Speaker 2: are a certain multiple of your expenses. And that changed

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Speaker 2: everything because I was like, all right, here we go.

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Speaker 2: That's simple math. I love math. I can understand that.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, it's not this dream destination when you hit sixty.

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Speaker 2: It's actually just a function of your spending, and my

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Speaker 2: spending can be reduced and my income can be increased.

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Speaker 2: And it was the thing that I was most I

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Speaker 2: did about at that time. So I turned thirty in

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve January and I launched them at fientists like

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Speaker 2: I think February second of twenty twelve, because I was like,

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Speaker 2: I could overanalyze this to death. I could start in

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Speaker 2: LLC when I don't need one. I can worry about

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Speaker 2: the legal ramifications of giving financial advice on the internet,

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Speaker 2: all these things that don't matter because I have no readers.

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Speaker 2: Or I could just start it because my twenties were

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Speaker 2: all of that stuff. So I just started it. I

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Speaker 2: asked mister money Mustache to be my first guest on

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Speaker 2: my podcast because he was a software developer like me,

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Speaker 2: had no idea how big he was or how big

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Speaker 2: he would become. And yeah, just went from there. So

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Speaker 2: it was a lot of luck for timing wise, but

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Speaker 2: it was also just me reaching the into the rope

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Speaker 2: of like overanalyzing things to death. I just needed to

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Speaker 2: take action. That's funny.

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Speaker 1: When you were talking about kind of your goal behind

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Speaker 1: financial independence, not to become super wealthy or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: It made me think of our friends Julian and Kirsten

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Speaker 1: who do rich in regular and I love kind of

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Speaker 1: that those three words enter tandem, rich and regular, and

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Speaker 1: that is like kind of the aspiration that Matt and

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Speaker 1: I have as well. It's wealthy over a long period

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Speaker 1: of time. It is nothing flashy.

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Speaker 2: It is it.

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Speaker 1: We try really old, pretty ugly minivans, and people assume

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Speaker 1: when we drive around town, oh, like that's that person

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Speaker 1: doesn't have any money. So talk to me though about that.

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Speaker 1: Because wealth can, I think, have a certain flash, you

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Speaker 1: can show it off. There are ways to make people

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Speaker 1: understand that you are a person of means. Why was

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Speaker 1: that never anything that you aspired to when you kind

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Speaker 1: of figure out figured out what money can do, what

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Speaker 1: money can be. How come that was never one of

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Speaker 1: the goals of money for you.

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Speaker 2: That was the luckiest thing I think about my journey.

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Speaker 2: It was the fact that not only was that not

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Speaker 2: important to me, but it was like actually the reverse.

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Speaker 2: Like I wanted to downplay it. I still want to

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Speaker 2: downplay it. You guys are sitting in the brand new

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Speaker 2: house that we bought, and it is grander and flashier

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Speaker 2: than anything I've ever purchased in my life, and I

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Speaker 2: still feel very weird about it, not to say I'm

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Speaker 2: not happy, Like I love it, I love everything about it,

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Speaker 2: but it is I would I would be more comfortable

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Speaker 2: if it was less grand and less I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it just stands out a little bit too much. But

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Speaker 2: the real estate market's crazy, and this was the absolutely

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Speaker 2: the best thing that we've seen on the market. So

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy that we got it, and I'm absolutely

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Speaker 2: thrilled about it. But yeah, I don't I don't know

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Speaker 2: where that comes from. I think it's my grandparents struggled

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Speaker 2: and they had you know, they had three kids and

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Speaker 2: all they had four kids, and they had a bunch

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Speaker 2: of foster kids, and they were always like every penny

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Speaker 2: was to be looked after and not to be wasted.

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Speaker 2: And the same with my upbringing. So it's like and

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Speaker 2: all my friends and every No, I don't have rich friends.

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Speaker 2: I don't have rich tastes. Yes, I love going to

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Speaker 2: like a really fancy restaurant once in a while for

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Speaker 2: a treat, but I'd be much more comfortable getting like

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Speaker 2: a really good burger and stuff like that. So it's

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Speaker 2: like my identity is so tied to like middle class

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Speaker 2: that the fact that the money in the bank isn't

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Speaker 2: that anymore is very hard to come to terms with,

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Speaker 2: because money is really useful, like this house is in particular,

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Speaker 2: is like testament to that, like using money to buy

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Speaker 2: nice things is really actually good, and like for my

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Speaker 2: entire life, I've always kept myself from doing that because

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Speaker 2: I was saving and saving and saving to get to

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Speaker 2: financial independence. But now that we've been here for the

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Speaker 2: last six years and the portfolio has grown even despite

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Speaker 2: just using it, it's like, Okay, this is going to

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Speaker 2: snowball out of control because compound interest is an actually

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Speaker 2: really powerful thing. So we got to start spending it.

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Speaker 2: And every single change we've made so far, except maybe

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Speaker 2: a business class flight that wasn't worth the extra money

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Speaker 2: or the extra miles I couldn't I couldn't use money.

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Speaker 2: I used miles, but it wasn't worth the extra miles.

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Speaker 2: But every every other thing that we've pushed ourselves to

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Speaker 2: spend a little bit more has been worth it. So

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Speaker 2: for someone who's supernaturally frugal has a blog about frugality

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Speaker 2: and like saving a bunch of money. I'm surprised over

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Speaker 2: the last two years that I've let myself relax a

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Speaker 2: little bit. How much fun spending is so Like, it's

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Speaker 2: weird to be talking about that because, yeah, like as

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Speaker 2: a frugality blogger, but it's been it's been so much fun.

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Speaker 2: Like I money has been more fun to spend than

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Speaker 2: it has been to save recently. But it's only because

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Speaker 2: I know that I'm not like making a huge dent

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Speaker 2: into that before though, so I think that may be

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Speaker 2: the difference. It's like, yeah, spending when I didn't have

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Speaker 2: a lot now just stress me out because I wasn't saving.

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Speaker 2: But now that I know that we're set, like, it

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Speaker 2: has been nice to just relax a little bit, which

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Speaker 2: is a huge surprise.

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Speaker 3: You're you're talking about lifestyle and how it is that

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Speaker 3: you're spending money, and it's funny that you consider you,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you mentioned like a frugality blogger when it

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Speaker 3: seems like so much of what you honestly what you

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Speaker 3: specialize in and what I think folks go to you

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Speaker 3: for is the number crunching. It's more of the analytical

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Speaker 3: side of things. But I actually I do have a

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Speaker 3: quick follow up about consumption and spending, and we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about fire, financial independence, retiring early,

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Speaker 3: and we'll get to some of those questions right after

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Speaker 3: this break.

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Speaker 2: All right, we are back from the break.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, I wanted to mention Brandon, you

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Speaker 3: were so incredibly generous and we have already enjoyed a

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Speaker 3: couple very delicious, very amazing beers. And Brandon was not

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Speaker 3: joking when you mentioned how we share a love of

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Speaker 3: craft beer and we have some of the finest here.

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Speaker 3: I just took a scept from mine and it's so

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Speaker 3: stinking good. We'll talk about our thoughts on the beer

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Speaker 3: at the end of the episode. But right before the break,

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Speaker 3: I was we were talking about consumption, like was there

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Speaker 3: a point? Was there like did alight turn on? Was

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Speaker 3: there a switch that flipped that allowed you to start

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Speaker 3: spending money to kind of shift from that frugality mindset

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Speaker 3: to actually start enjoying some of your money, Like when

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Speaker 3: did that point in time come for you?

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Speaker 2: So I had created a software application prior to even

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Speaker 2: starting the Mad Fientist, and it started generating more income

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Speaker 2: than we actually spend. So it was at that point

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Speaker 2: where I was like, Okay, we have this five portfolio

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Speaker 2: that is meant to be providing all of our spending money.

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Speaker 2: We're not even touching it because this application that I

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Speaker 2: created a year or two before is actually bringing you more.

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Speaker 2: So it was at that point I was like, this

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Speaker 2: is ridiculous. So what I need to do is at

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Speaker 2: least spend what the five portfolio could generate every year

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Speaker 2: in perpetuity, which is the whole point of saving up

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Speaker 2: a big portfolio and pursuing five. So that amount was

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Speaker 2: about double what we normally spent over the last decade.

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Speaker 2: So I've never hit that target. It's been a target

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Speaker 2: for the past three years, and I got I got

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Speaker 2: fairly close the first year because I was we were

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Speaker 2: traveling a lot that was post pandemic, so I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna We're gonna go and see my family. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna go and travel and like, we've been pent up

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Speaker 2: in this one bedroom Edinburgh apartment for a whole year,

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Speaker 2: so let's go crazy. And we got sort of close,

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Speaker 2: but we didn't. We didn't hit the target. Last year,

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Speaker 2: we moved into a rental, which I knew was going

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Speaker 2: to be our last rental before buying a place, so

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Speaker 2: I was like, this will allow us to buy the

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Speaker 2: things that we want to buy because we're only gonna

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Speaker 2: have to move them one more time. So I bought

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Speaker 2: like a super fancy coffee grinder, which you guys got

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Speaker 2: the he got to reap the benefits of with a

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Speaker 2: nice coffee when you arrived and things like that, and

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Speaker 2: we sort of got we got less close because that

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Speaker 2: was I had a list of things I wanted to

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Speaker 2: buy for a lot of years and it wasn't It

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Speaker 2: was a small list because I don't like stuff. So

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Speaker 2: then this year we were really we were really lagging

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Speaker 2: behind the target. But then we just bought a house,

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Speaker 2: So I think we're gonna maybe hit it this year

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Speaker 2: because we're trying to furnish a house. Even though it's

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Speaker 2: been furnished when we bought it, which was super nice,

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Speaker 2: we're still adding a few things to it. So maybe

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Speaker 2: we'll get close this year. But this year I've set

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Speaker 2: the target that if I don't spend it, I have

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Speaker 2: to give it away because I also want to try

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Speaker 2: to get better at given away to charity because I

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Speaker 2: just feel like we've been so fortunate, but old habits

391
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Speaker 2: die hard, So I'm still gripping every penny with an

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Speaker 2: iron fist, which I need to get better at not doing,

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Speaker 2: because yeah, it's just counter productive at this stage. So

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Speaker 2: whatever we don't spend under that goal going to give

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Speaker 2: it away to charity, which is a whole other thing

396
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Speaker 2: I need to explore. So yeah, so it was really

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Speaker 2: the fact that got to a point where didn't even

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Speaker 2: draw down on the fire portfolio and realized I needed

399
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 2: to start thinking about it. And then recently the Die

400
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 2: with Zera book has been really influential, and that's only

401
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 2: because Matt Fintis readers and listeners actually recommended it when

402
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Speaker 2: I was talking about the stuff spend really impactful because

403
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Speaker 2: he talks about you need to enjoy your money at

404
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Speaker 2: certain stages, like right now. Like I'm forty one, and

405
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Speaker 2: you know, I love skiing, so I need to spend

406
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 2: on skiing now because maybe when I'm fifty, I'm going

407
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,600
Speaker 2: to be in a lot less physical shape that maybe

408
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Speaker 2: it's not going to be as fun. And my son's young,

409
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Speaker 2: so doing stuff with him is going to be more

410
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Speaker 2: fun now when he's young than maybe when he's a

411
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Speaker 2: teenager and doesn't want to hang out with me and

412
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Speaker 2: things like that, So it's put a whole news perspective

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Speaker 2: on things. And like I said before, like I've enjoyed

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Speaker 2: every little bit of the increase that we've done. And

415
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 2: again we're not spending even probably what a typical American

416
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Speaker 2: spends just normally. But every change we made is been

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Speaker 2: beneficial so far.

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Speaker 1: It's so it's so interesting to hear you talk about

419
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Speaker 1: kind of those those trying to change the dial on

420
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Speaker 1: saving or spending, because they're really two different approaches to money.

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Speaker 1: And you know, those years of being frugal and you know,

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Speaker 1: saving and investing half or more of your income, which

423
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Speaker 1: is kind of what the fire person is into, is

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Speaker 1: like one way of approaching money, and then spending down

425
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Speaker 1: that portfolio is a different, completely different way of thinking

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Speaker 1: about money. But talk to me about I'm curious a

427
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Speaker 1: lot of people who are in the fire movement. I

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Speaker 1: guess at a certain point in time they might say, Wow,

429
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Speaker 1: this is really difficult to be setting aside this much

430
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Speaker 1: of my income. It's a really hard thing than to

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Speaker 1: change your mentality. And so do you wish does any

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Speaker 1: part of you wish you could go back to some

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Speaker 1: of those early days when you were saving such an

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Speaker 1: extreme amount of your income and say, I wish I

435
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Speaker 1: would have lived it up a little more. I wish

436
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: I would have saved a little bit less.

437
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: Extremely Yeah, so I'm very lucky in the sense that

438
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 2: I don't have very many regrets. Joe and I we

439
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 2: travel to like fifty countries in our twenties and thirties,

440
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 2: and travel was like the big thing for me, and like, yeah,

441
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 2: I got really good at travel hacking and using points

442
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 2: and miles to make it cheap. But yeah, I'm glad

443
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 2: we did that when we were young, because a lot

444
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 2: of that travel I wouldn't want to do now in

445
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: my forties, So I'm really thankful for that. I'm thankful

446
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 2: that we didn't sacrifice that to like some glorious like

447
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 2: around the World trip when we were fifty or sixty,

448
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 2: because it just wouldn't be as fun. Because travel in

449
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 2: the forties is definitely not as fun as it was

450
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: in the twenties. The only regrets I have from my

451
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: entire fire journey is missing out on a few things

452
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 2: in my twenties. So for instance, like my buddies were

453
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 2: getting married, so like the bachelor party would be a

454
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: month before the wedding, and I'm like, I live in Scotland.

455
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: I'm not going to travel back to the States in

456
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 2: June and then come back in July for the wedding.

457
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: Like I'll come to the wedding, that's the important thing,

458
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 2: you know, Like I'll give you my gifts and get

459
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 2: to catch up and all that stuff. But I'm not

460
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 2: going to come just to get wasted for one night

461
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 2: in June and then come all the way back in July.

462
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: But I do regret that because just like the Die

463
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 2: with Zero book says, those trips aren't coming back. My

464
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 2: buddies have stories that I'm not included in because I

465
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: wasn't there, and it would have been so hard to

466
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 2: spend that much money. Like even now, knowing what I

467
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 2: know now, it was still been a really hard thing

468
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 2: to spend that money to make two translating trips within

469
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: a month. But yeah, I didn't miss out out on

470
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: that stuff. So those are literally the only things that

471
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 2: I'm regretful of in my journey to FI. Like, I'm

472
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: glad I lived the lifestyle that we lived so that

473
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: we can live the lifestyle that we live now. I'm

474
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 2: glad that we just let our lifestyle gradually increase. So

475
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: even though our money was drastically increasing, with our salaries

476
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: increasing and side businesses increasing. We just gradually let it increase,

477
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: and that's what's made it fun all these years. Like

478
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: hawd I let it drastically increase in my twenties. When

479
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 2: I could have, I would probably be sick of whatever

480
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: I was doing in my twenties, whereas now, like just

481
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 2: the fact that we own a house again is like

482
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: a glorious thing. It's like, Wow, I can put stuff

483
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: in this drawer and it's going to be in that

484
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: drawer for the next X number of years. Like that

485
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: is like amazing to me right now. So I'm glad

486
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: we did it gradually because yeah, you get to appreciate

487
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: it more. And I say this on my podcast a lot.

488
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: It's like we're really bad at knowing what we actually

489
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: want in life, so experimenting is the only way to

490
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 2: really know what you want. So we get to run

491
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: all these fun experiments and some of them don't work out,

492
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: and some of them do. But but yeah, we could

493
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 2: have easily just gone from you know, broke students to

494
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: like making whatever six figures and having that whole lifestyle.

495
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: But it's like, what would we get to look forward

496
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 2: to in our forties, like long answer to your question,

497
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's only one thing I regret, and that

498
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 2: is missing just a few bachelor parties with my friends,

499
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: because I'm even if we did those trips again, we

500
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 2: wouldn't be twenty year old idiots like we would have

501
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 2: been at that time, and we wouldn't have the stories

502
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: that resulted from those twenty year old idiot extravagances. So

503
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 2: but yeah, besides that, thankfully we uh I didn't sacrifice

504
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: too much.

505
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: I've got one more follow up. I guess when it

506
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 3: comes to how it is that you spend money, but

507
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: it sounds like that you were frugal, but it sounds

508
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 3: like you also had Jill. So Jill is your wife,

509
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 3: and that it seemed like she was on board. I

510
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 3: haven't heard many stories shared, at least about maybe y'all

511
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 3: you know, knocking heads when it comes to whether it's

512
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 3: spending money or saving money or some of the different decisions.

513
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: How were you able to get her on board so easily?

514
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: And you're shaking your head no, And so if you

515
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 3: if you weren't able to, how, I guess what lessons

516
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 3: did you learn along the way.

517
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: Jill was never like she was never flashy or never extravagant.

518
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: But if the money was in her account, it was

519
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 2: spent it. It wasn't it was like, yeah, it's there,

520
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: I'll spend it. It was yeah, end was zero at

521
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: the end of the month. It's fine, it doesn't matter.

522
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: It's like, there's my money, I'm going to use it.

523
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: So luckily, it wasn't like battling against some sort of

524
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: like I need to show how successful I am, or

525
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: I need to show out extravagant I am. It wasn't

526
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: anything like that. It was more like, all right, the

527
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 2: money's in the account, I'll spend it. She never really

528
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 2: understood why I was so intent on saving. It wasn't

529
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 2: until we really sat down. It was on our honeymoon. Actually,

530
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: so we dated for ten years before we got married.

531
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 2: So by the time our honeymoon rolled around, I was like, well, like,

532
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: what's your perfect life look like? She's like, well, what

533
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 2: do you mean perfect life? I was like, well, if

534
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: you could design exactly how you want to live, what

535
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 2: is it like. She's like, what do you mean that's

536
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: a stupid question. Like I just I work like everybody else.

537
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: I cooked dinner and then you know, we just live

538
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: this normal existence. I was like, no, it doesn't have

539
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: to be like that, Like how would you design it?

540
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: If you could design it? And it was only when

541
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: we went through that exercise, and it wasn't a quick exercise.

542
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 2: It lasted well beyond the honeymoon. It was like lots

543
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: of discussions, lots of thinking about it, and like it

544
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: was only then that she realized, oh, you know, I

545
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: don't have to be driving to some office while she's

546
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: an optomicist, but driving to some clinic forty hours a

547
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: week and being stuck there and having our whatever a

548
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 2: few weeks of vacation every year, Like we could actually

549
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: design it in a different way. And that was the

550
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 2: turning point. So and then obviously starting the mad fientists help.

551
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: So I started that in twenty twelve, started interviewing other

552
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 2: people that thought like me. So she wasn't hearing it

553
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: from me. The last thing she wanted to do was

554
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: get lectured by me about how to deal with money.

555
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: So hearing from other people that thought differently about money

556
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: was really helpful. So I think it was the combination

557
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: those two things.

558
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: It almost seems like so obviously the question of asking

559
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 3: what should like, what would our perfect life look like.

560
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: It seems like that was a turning point where you

561
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: could start to essentially you're starting with the end in mind,

562
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 3: then what steps do we need to take in order

563
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 3: to get there? It sounds like that was huge. But

564
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 3: what you're talking about now is like I hear you

565
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 3: talk about like if you're not going to spend a

566
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 3: certain amount of money this year, like you're talking about

567
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 3: giving it away. So essentially for you, what seems to

568
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: be working now is essentially creating rules. You're basically creating

569
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 3: like an algorithm, a formula that is going to work

570
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 3: for you, and you know that if you don't follow

571
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 3: through and if X doesn't happen, well why is going

572
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 3: to happen? And I think that's important to point out

573
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 3: that for some individuals, depending on how it is that

574
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 3: you process and how it is that you think, it

575
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 3: might literally whether it's coming up with a formula with

576
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: an XL or even just writing out on a sheet

577
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: of paper saying that my goal is to spend x

578
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: amount of my expendable income this year, or my goal

579
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: is to set aside this much for retirement, whatever it is.

580
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: I think for the individual, you have to figure out

581
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 3: the different approaches that are going to work for you,

582
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: that is going to be able to move the needle,

583
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: whether it comes to how much you're able to invest

584
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: your money or even in your case, it seems like

585
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 3: how much money you're going to spend. And so it

586
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: seems like that that's actually working out for you.

587
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my entire life is run by spreadsheets. So

588
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: once I wasn't having spreadsheets to figure out how much

589
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: I was saving, I need to have spreadsheets to tell

590
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: me how much to spend. And yeah, just the way

591
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: my brain works, Like, I do enjoy that and it

592
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: does take my brain out of it a bit as well.

593
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: It's like it was very helpful on the saving path

594
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 2: because I knew, like this is what I wanted to

595
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: do and this is how I was going to do it.

596
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 2: But it's super helpful now because it's like, I know

597
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: I want to spend this much. I know that's going

598
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: to be a struggle. So then when I'm out and

599
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: about and a potential expense comes up, I'm like, rather

600
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: than before my entire life has been oh no, spending

601
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: is the worst thing that you can do. It's the

602
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: last ditch effort. It means you haven't spent twenty hours

603
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: on the internet trying to figure out a way to

604
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: come and get that same thing for way cheaper or free.

605
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: It means that you failed and way, so this is

606
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: what you have to do. You have to spend. So

607
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 2: it's flip that and now it's like, Okay, I have

608
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: to spend this much more. So that's the no brainer

609
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 2: thing to do. I just do that, and then it

610
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: helps me reach my other goal of spending this amount.

611
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: And yeah, for a naturally frugal person, it's been absolutely

612
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: game changing. And I realize how ridiculous it sounds. And

613
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: I know this is going to be a small subset

614
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: of the audience, but for all the fire people out there,

615
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: they know how this feels. And like even some very

616
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: famous fire people, I see them struggling a lot with

617
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: how to how to actually spend and utilize the money

618
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: that they saved up, because yeah, when you're gone, money

619
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: is meaningless, which it is all along, but we at

620
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: least trick ourselves into think it's not.

621
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I feel like we're such kindred spirits. We

622
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: approach money into completely different ways, but we have so

623
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: many similar thoughts and approaches and feelings towards it too,

624
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: So that's just yeah, fun to hear your perspective on that.

625
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: But we want to specifically talk about your life post five.

626
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: You've got a kiddo now that changes everything, as we

627
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: all know. Anybody who has kids knows that that like

628
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: throws a wrench in every single one of our plans.

629
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: So we'll talk about that and just really, you know,

630
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: what life post financial independence has been like for more

631
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: than half a decade. We'll talk about more along those

632
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: lines with Brandon the mad Fientist right after this. All right,

633
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: we're back. We're still talking with the mad Fientist, our

634
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: good friend Brandon Gansch, and he is I mean really

635
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: kind of the og in the Fire movement or one

636
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: of the OG's right, And we were talking earlier about

637
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: just the different generations of firefolks who have like you

638
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: are essentially the grandfather, like you were one of the originals. Well,

639
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: I feel like early retirement extreme was probably where Brandon

640
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: got it from, was like the original original writing. Nothing

641
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: it's more original than that, right, yeah, which is pretty

642
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: Jacob Lundfisker. So but yeah, I want to talk about

643
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: what life has been like after you reached that point.

644
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of sacrifices, a lot of years, a

645
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: lot of saving a lot more than you make. And

646
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: our audience, again, a lot of some of our audiences

647
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: into the fire stuff more. A big chunk of our

648
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: audience is also really into like basic personal finance, but

649
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: financial independence. Matt and I always come at this conversation

650
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: about money from that perspective that maybe not retiring early,

651
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: but reaching financial independence within a reasonable amount of time

652
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: is a really good goal. So talk about what life

653
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: has been like once you kind of hit that goal.

654
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: It certainly seems like in those first couple of years

655
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of like wheel spinning, that

656
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: you were not quite sure what life was going to

657
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: look like. Maybe you have this big old financial goal

658
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: that you wanted to hit, and then once you hit it,

659
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: you were like, I don't know what to do right now?

660
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, big time. So for me, like I felt incorrectly

661
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: that my job was holding me back from everything that

662
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: I wanted to do. So I blamed my job on

663
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: the reason that I hadn't written an album like I'd

664
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: always wanted to do since I was a kid. I

665
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: blamed my job for the reason I hadn't started a

666
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: business like i'd always wanted to do. When I was

667
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: maybe twenty plus, I blamed my job for everything, and

668
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: only after getting rid of the job did I realize

669
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: that my job had nothing to do with any of

670
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: that stuff. So the first few years were weird. The

671
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: first one was amazing. So the first year after leaving

672
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: my job, I was like, this is amazing. Jill and

673
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: I traveled all the way around the world, used a

674
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: bunch of our miles to travel in like business class

675
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: and try to try out all that stuff. And we

676
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: lived in Thailand and we did all that stuff and

677
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: it was amazing and it was really fun. You know.

678
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: A couple months in, we're like, okay, another temple who

679
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: cares like this isn't the like Jill knew it Jill,

680
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: Jill wanted to do a one month trip. I wanted

681
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: to do a one year trip. We settled on three months.

682
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: By two months in, I was like, God, Jill was right.

683
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: She's always right, but she lets me learn from my

684
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 2: mistakes in practice rather than lecturing me, so that's nice.

685
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was like, yeah, it's another temple Jesus

686
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: like it's lost its appeal. So so then it was like, okay,

687
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: well I still haven't written that album that I always

688
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 2: said I was going to write, And like, I haven't

689
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: been an entrepreneur like I thought it would be, and

690
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: all this stuff, and you realize that your job's not

691
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: stopping you from that. It's self doubt, it's all the

692
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: things that are the things that every creative person has

693
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: to go through to create anything that they like. It's

694
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 2: like you feel like it's the worst thing that's ever

695
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: been produced, and you just all that stuff. It's like, so, yeah,

696
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: not having a job lets you more or less be

697
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 2: miserable for twenty four hours a day because the reason

698
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 2: you're not successful was all in your hands. And that's

699
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: a very difficult pill to swallow. And it was only

700
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: the pandemic that saved me, to be honest, because we

701
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 2: had moved to Edinburgh. The whole city shut down. The

702
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 2: UK was way more lockdown than the States, I think,

703
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: and we had no options and it was like, all right, well,

704
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: you know, I've got the money to not have a job.

705
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: I've got absolutely no distractions because we can literally only

706
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: leave our apartment for one hour day it's for exercise,

707
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: and you can't even sit in the park. You have

708
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: to walk in the park because sitting is not exercise,

709
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, I have to do this thing

710
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: that I said I'd always want to do, and that

711
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: was write an album. And I spent that entire year

712
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 2: writing the album. I did it, and it is still

713
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: my proudest accomplishment of all time because I know how

714
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: much awful self doubt, in like just torturous hours trying

715
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: things it took to make it. And I think that

716
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: I think that's the big lesson because people like me,

717
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 2: like I definitely did it, are racing towards five because

718
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 2: they think it's going to solve all of their problems.

719
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: And it literally solves because when you log into your

720
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 2: bank account and you see a number on the screen,

721
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: you know a slightly larger number on that screen is

722
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: going to do nothing for your actual real life or

723
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: your real happiness. It's what you do with the knowledge

724
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: that you have that extra larger number in the screen

725
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: that really matters. And that's tough, and it's tough to

726
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: figure out how to do that when you're not practiced

727
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: in it, and I wasn't practiced in it because all

728
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: my focus and all my energy was towards saving and

729
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 2: once I had saved enough it was like, well, okay,

730
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: now what I haven't worked on that entrepreneurial muscle. I

731
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: haven't worked on that music muscle. I haven't worked on

732
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 2: the spending muscle. I've not worked any of that, and

733
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: they've all atrophied to nothing. Yes, I know how to save.

734
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 2: And that's something I really see in the fire movement

735
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: and which is why I've sort of backed away from

736
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 2: it over years. Is a lot of people it seems

737
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: like they get to fire and they want to just

738
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: integrate themselves more into the fire community, and that just

739
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: seems kind of productive to me because it's like reaching

740
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: financial independence is like, you know, you get really good

741
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: at using a hammer because you want to build, Say

742
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: I want to build a model airplane and you want

743
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: to build a boat, and yeah, everyone, it's it's fun

744
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: to talk about that hammer while you're building. But then

745
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 2: afterwards you want to hang out with boat people or

746
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: I want to hang out with model airplane people. So

747
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 2: that to reach fire and then just want to just

748
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 2: hang out more in the financial independent space seems kind

749
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 2: of productive because it's like, well that that was just

750
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: a tool to do something else. So that's why over

751
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: the recent years it's like I'm trying to get more

752
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: into the music community and things like that, because that's

753
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: that was the whole point. So it's a it's it's

754
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 2: tough because, yeah, you get so focused on something, you

755
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 2: get so good at something, and then once you reach

756
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 2: that goal, the best thing to do is to leave

757
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: it all behind. And that's not natural.

758
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 3: I mean, essentially, you've in a sense won the money game,

759
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 3: and if you continue to focus on the financial independence

760
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 3: part of it, you are obsessing over that hammer. I mean,

761
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: this is why we so we call it the craft

762
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: beer equivalent, and this is a part of why we

763
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 3: taught we introduced every episode typically with a beer except

764
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: for our Friday flights, is because we're trying to kind

765
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 3: of flex that small muscle of what is it that

766
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: you do when it spend money on get creative when

767
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 3: it comes to the different things that you want to pursue,

768
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 3: and so in that way, like what are some of

769
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 3: the other I guess areas of life. So you've already

770
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 3: mentioned synthesizers in your pursuit of electronic music. You've also

771
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 3: mentioned in the house, But I guess what are some

772
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 3: of the other ways that you not only see yourself

773
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 3: allowing yourself to spend money, but that you are intentionally

774
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 3: trying to see growth in other areas of your life,

775
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 3: that you are realizing that that's going to lead to

776
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 3: long lasting joy and fulfillment.

777
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. And I just reach only

778
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: had a remat set to you on the podcast, my podcast,

779
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: because I knew he would be the one to push

780
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: me a bit further. And he was talking to me

781
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: about like, okay, like what do you love like? And

782
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: I've talked to you guys about this when you arrived

783
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: because I made you coffee and it's like, yeah, I

784
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 2: love my coffee ritual every day. And he's like, well,

785
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 2: how can you push that to the next level? And

786
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: like he pushed me into levels that made me literally

787
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: sweat behind the microphone because I was like, that is ridiculous,

788
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: Like but I'm starting to do those and they are great.

789
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: So it's like he's like, well, what if you could

790
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: tenx that spend And I'm like, I have no idea

791
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 2: because the thing that you asked me to spend on

792
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: was already like a huge stretch, Like I couldn't even

793
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 2: imagine spending on that. So the tenx it is just insane,

794
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: but talking to him through it like it actually made

795
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 2: sense and it was like, Okay, yeah, I could ten

796
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: x the spend, make absolutely no dent in the portfolio whatsoever,

797
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: and yet maybe have this even more elevated coffee lifestyle

798
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 2: than I already have. And so yeah, so talk him

799
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 2: was really important. But also it was the Die with

800
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: Zeerra book that again a bunch of mettfientists, readers and

801
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 2: listeners recommended, And it was the fact that it was like,

802
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: all right, you need to think about life in different stages,

803
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 2: and yes, you could save up now to have like

804
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 2: the ultimate trip when you're fifty, but when you're twenty,

805
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 2: it may be a lot more fun staying in hostels

806
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: and getting drunk on really cheap beer with your best friends.

807
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 2: And that really resonated with me because I do find that,

808
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 2: like I said earlier, the one regret is not, you know,

809
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: having ridiculous bachelor parties with my buddies in the twenties,

810
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: because that's not that's not going to happen again. So

811
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: thinking about where I am at in my life right now,

812
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 2: I'd always dreamed of, like quote unquote proper retiring to

813
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: the mountains because I love pond hockey, I love skiing,

814
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: I love snow, I love winter. I love everything about

815
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 2: that whole lifestyle. And now that I have a son,

816
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 2: like being able to ski with my son, like that's

817
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 2: just sounds like the best thing in the world. That

818
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: was always the dream. So Joe and I were like,

819
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: well we can. We'll do primary school in Scotland and

820
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: then maybe move to a mountain destination. But then when

821
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: I read Dawood Zero, I was like, you know, when

822
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 2: I'm fifty, I may not want to, you know, be

823
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: putting my knees through all that skiing that I want

824
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: to do now. So rather than yeah, save up a

825
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: bunch of money by the perfect mountain house and have

826
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: this perfect lifestyle with my ten year old son, maybe

827
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 2: every year we should just run him Airbnb for a

828
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 2: month and have an amazing month and maybe that's enough.

829
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't need the house, and maybe I don't

830
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: need the community. If I have the community here in Scotland,

831
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: maybe I can just you know, have a month of

832
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: super fun winter and then we have our community here.

833
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: So that's that's the thought this year. That's it's going

834
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 2: to use that money rather than just keep stockpiling because

835
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 2: that's easy. That's what I've been doing my whole life,

836
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: rather than just keep stockpiling. And it's like, all right,

837
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: let's use it to have an amazing winter month. Let's

838
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: teach my son to ski for the first time, and

839
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: maybe that's going to be way better than saving up

840
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 2: all that money for this you know, mountain house that

841
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: maybe we won't even get that much use out of.

842
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it takes work to think creatively about how it

843
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 3: is that you can start to spend that money now.

844
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 3: But like you said before, you're old into credit, before

845
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 3: you're while your knees give out and you're not able

846
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 3: to skip.

847
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: Which the three of us are getting close to that

848
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: in the place in our lives, right. So okay, so

849
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm curious. Last question, So, thinking back to young mad fientists, Brandon,

850
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of how to money listsers

851
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: who are in that camp who are kind of learning

852
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: about how to handle money properly, like what it looks

853
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: like to be smart with money. And our thing is

854
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: all about balance and some of the fire community, balance

855
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: doesn't enter the equation no balance, And so what would

856
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: you say to someone who's in there, you know, early

857
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: mid twenties even early thirties, and they're saying, I just

858
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: kind of I'm stumbling upon this. I really want to

859
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: handle my money well, so I'm giving myself more options

860
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: for the future, but I also don't want to sacrifice

861
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: everything in the here and now. What does it look

862
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: like for me to do that in a way that

863
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: is like true too and good and good to my

864
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: current self, but also yeah, but also good to my

865
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: future self.

866
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: That's a great question. And yeah, so I would say,

867
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, I'm talking down on financial independence, but it's

868
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: absolutely worth it. The security of knowing that everything is

869
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: okay and you can do whatever you want, that's priceless.

870
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: But I would look at every expense that you have

871
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: as Okay, is this something I can do in my

872
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 2: twenties and only in my twenties, then go ahead and

873
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: do it. But if this is something like a fancy

874
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 2: house or a fancy car, like yeah, when you're forty

875
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: and you you know, are stuck at home because you

876
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 2: have kids and you can't travel the world because it's

877
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: too complicated, then yeah, card is going to make you

878
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: super happy. So leave that for your forties. You don't

879
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: have to have everything perfect right away. Like, some of

880
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 2: my happiest times are as a student, and we had

881
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: nothing when we were students. So yeah, don't let this

882
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: seem like I'm talking down on five because there's not

883
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: a day that goes by that I don't appreciate the

884
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: choices of my twenties and thirties. But I would say,

885
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: never let your job be an excuse for what you

886
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 2: really want to be doing, because you have time. If

887
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: you're on Twitter, you have time. If you watch YouTube,

888
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 2: you have time. If you play video games, you have time.

889
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: And you just have to do the hard thing and

890
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: make the uncomfortable choices to do what you want to do.

891
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: And that's not going to change if you have a million,

892
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: ten million, one hundred million in the bank. So don't

893
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: let your job be an excuse for not doing what

894
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: you want to do. Just do the hard work, because

895
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,919
Speaker 2: it's much harder to put off the hard work, trust me. Yeah,

896
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: there's a really good quote. I can't remember it and

897
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to butcher it, but it's something along the

898
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: lines like there's only you have to make a choice.

899
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 2: It's either pain now or pain later, and that is

900
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: that is really really the case. So choose the pain now.

901
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: Because it'll make later a lot more fun. You don't

902
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 2: have to spend like everyone else. I think. I think

903
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 2: it just boils down to that you need to experiment

904
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: because you have no idea what you want. You think

905
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 2: you know what you want, but then you don't because

906
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: you try it and you're like, I don't want this,

907
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: So experiment in low you know you don't want to

908
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: experiment and buy the boat and think, Okay, this is

909
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: my experiment because the boat's expensive, but rent the boat.

910
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: See if you want to live on the ocean, and

911
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: you want because it's it's way, you're going to sleep terribly.

912
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: But don't put off your perfect life to FI. If

913
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 2: you are one of the fire people like me who

914
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 2: thought everything would be perfect once you hit FI. But

915
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 2: you know, don't spend like everyone else, because everyone else

916
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 2: is crazy. I think that's why, Like I think that's

917
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 2: so true.

918
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 3: Pain now or pain later, whether that's when it comes

919
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 3: to saving your money or in your case, spending it,

920
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 3: which I think it is more rare. But what I

921
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 3: hear you saying too is to pay attention to shelf

922
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: life right. Pay attention to the limited amount of time

923
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 3: and the limited exposure that you might have to certain experiences.

924
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 3: Don't short change those. And I really like too what

925
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 3: you ended there. When it comes to experimenting, figuring out

926
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 3: what it is that you might actually enjoy, like what

927
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 3: is your craft beer equivalent? It takes some time. It

928
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 3: takes some trial and error to figure out what that

929
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 3: thing is.

930
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: But took a lot of craft beer for us to

931
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: get there. That's true, Randa.

932
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 3: We really appreciate you chatting with us today on the podcast.

933
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: Will make sure to link to the Mad Scientists and

934
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 3: typically we say farewell at this point, but you are

935
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: sitting here with us and we are all sharing the

936
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 3: same craft beer. And so during this episode we enjoyed

937
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 3: a beer by Verdant.

938
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 2: This is Putty.

939
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: This is a triple IPA. Brandon, I'm gonna toss this

940
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 3: over to you. What were your initial thoughts? What do

941
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 3: you think about this beer?

942
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 2: I love it, so Verdant is one of my favorite

943
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 2: UK brew and Puddy with three t's is their triple

944
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: IPA version of their flagship once a year release Putty,

945
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 2: which I love as well. So yeah, Putty triple IPA

946
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 2: is pretty impressive. And we've already gone through some cloud

947
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 2: water troubles to get to this stage. So I can't

948
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: believe I'm stringing any two words together at this stage

949
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: because yeah, as a new dad. As a new dad,

950
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: Joe and I can maybe handle one half of a

951
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,959
Speaker 2: beer before we fall asleep. So the fact that we've

952
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: got through so many triple IPAs to get to the

953
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: stage is a pretty pretty amazing feat. So thank you

954
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: guys for coming all the way to rural Scotland to

955
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: see me, and you guys are welcome back anytime. And

956
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 2: now we're gonna move onto the Scotch whiskey person of

957
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: the evening, which is gonna.

958
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 3: Well, honestly, if you're sharing six different triple IPAs amongst

959
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 3: six people, it actually is not too difficult of a

960
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: task to accomplished. But man, this was I want to

961
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 3: just thank you so much because this is an amazing beer.

962
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 3: Like it's got the tropic little citrus notes going on,

963
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 3: but at the same time it's got the sharpness from

964
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 3: the hops. It's so incredibly fresh on a delightful beer.

965
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: So thank you for sharing a special one from your

966
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: beer fridge.

967
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 1: See the interesting thing about drinking a great ipa sometimes

968
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: that first sip can be a little biting on the

969
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: alcohol content, and then you have another sip and you're like, dang,

970
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: wait a second, that just changed a whole lot and

971
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: this beer did just that, and so they had the

972
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: verdant triple IPA putty is a delight and one that

973
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: we don't have any exposure to back in the States.

974
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: You gotta fly all the way to to freaking Scotland

975
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: to enjoy. So thanks to Brandon for providing this delicious

976
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 1: beer and this wonderful conversation.

977
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: But that's going to do it.

978
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: We'll have links to everything Brandon related in our show

979
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com, and

980
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: we'll see you next time here at the how to

981
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: Money Podcast. Until next time, Matt best Friends Out, best

982
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: Friends Out

983
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: The Anything Speak