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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know stories of
Speaker 1: things we simply don't know the answer too. Hey guys,
Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. The podcast Steve Interrupts,
Speaker 1: where Steve interrupts constantly every day. I'm Devin, joined by
Speaker 1: Steve and the interruptre Oh my god, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a long episode. It's not actually going to be that
Speaker 1: long of an episode, just going to if Steve keeps interrupting,
Speaker 1: what today we're going to talk What are we talking about?
Speaker 1: A joke? Okay, let's go Sorry, today we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about It's just because you had to Kenny bar earlier.
Speaker 1: It couldn't help an interrupt because of that. But you
Speaker 1: know what, I should let you go ahead and talk
Speaker 1: about this story because this one's a fun one. Oh
Speaker 1: it is. No, it's a very good one, so highly dramatic,
Speaker 1: lots of death in destruction. Side words from the future,
Speaker 1: but I really need it. Knock knock. This week we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the disappearance of Benjamin Bathurst. This
Speaker 1: was a suggestion by Ash England. We're working through those suggestions,
Speaker 1: still listening. I think he is. I think he emailed
Speaker 1: us last time. Pretty sure. Okay, maybe not well asked.
Speaker 1: When you hear this, come on, send us an emails.
Speaker 1: You're still alive. So um. The quick overview for this
Speaker 1: story is um that a minor British diplomat named Benjamin
Speaker 1: Bathurst vanished almost literally into thin air while traveling under
Speaker 1: an assumed name with intendant in eighteen o nine in Germany,
Speaker 1: in Germany, while fleeing Austria Vienna. He's fleeing from Vienna, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is in Austria. It is part part of the
Speaker 1: part of Okay, yeah, all right, let's start with Benjamin. Yeah, quickly. Great.
Speaker 1: Benjamin was born on March eighteenth, seventeen eighty four, in London,
Speaker 1: so he was British and then he was when he
Speaker 1: disappeared pretty actually to be a diplomat. He was actually
Speaker 1: very young to be a diplomat. He I think he
Speaker 1: was like seventeen or eighteen when he became a diplomat. Um.
Speaker 1: He was part of the Bathurst family. Surprise. His father
Speaker 1: was the right Reverend Henry Bathurst and he was the
Speaker 1: Bishop of Norwich. That's pretty cool lineage. No, you guys
Speaker 1: are impressed. He was the third son in his family,
Speaker 1: so we had two older brothers. And then he had
Speaker 1: a sister. And I don't actually know. I think she
Speaker 1: was younger. I was going to say I thought the
Speaker 1: sister was younger, but I never actually paid attention enough. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't think that I've ever seen it anywhere written,
Speaker 1: but I just know from stuff that we know from
Speaker 1: fifty years later, she was still kind of looking for
Speaker 1: her brother. No, that's Felida Ala Call. I think it's her.
Speaker 1: I thought I thought that that was his wife, is it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Am I getting the two mixed up? Because okay, it's
Speaker 1: the sister that had the awesome last name. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I got him totally backwards that he did. So, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was married to a woman named Felida Call. Sorry
Speaker 1: for the spoiler. Gosh, jeez. And I don't think that
Speaker 1: they had kids as far as I know. He became
Speaker 1: a diplomat quote unquote at an early age. But it
Speaker 1: was definitely before he was twenty one, and then he
Speaker 1: married in eighteen oh five when he was twenty one.
Speaker 1: He was had already been a diplomat for a couple
Speaker 1: of years at that point, so really at a really
Speaker 1: young age. I've heard him as described described as very
Speaker 1: talented and really smart and just like actually qualified to
Speaker 1: be a diplomat, not just he was a kid. I
Speaker 1: was going to say that there's two kinds of diplomats
Speaker 1: at this time. There is the you have inherited this
Speaker 1: up no matter how terrible you are at it, or
Speaker 1: you actually have a talent. And usually third sons don't
Speaker 1: inherit diplomatic charges diplomatic posts. But he wasn't exactly. It
Speaker 1: was more kind of like an envoy. Well that's true, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess. But the thing is about diplomats at that
Speaker 1: time is that there if you do reading of historical stuff,
Speaker 1: they would have the ability to solve problems. So grievances
Speaker 1: of their monarch they would go in and they could
Speaker 1: agree to the terms on behalf of their monarch. Now
Speaker 1: they still had to go home and get the monarch
Speaker 1: to buy into it. But yeah, I mean, obviously they
Speaker 1: had to be able to do that because he didn't
Speaker 1: have a fall right, But it's not like today, it's like,
Speaker 1: let me call the boss and double check that he's
Speaker 1: okay with it. They could, they had the power, So
Speaker 1: to entrust it to a guy that young, he had
Speaker 1: to know what he was doing and have some skill. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So in eighteen o nine Benjamin was sent to Vienna.
Speaker 1: And as a reminder, eighteen o nine is like in
Speaker 1: the very middle years of the Napoleonic War, and it
Speaker 1: was when the Fifth Wars, not not Napoleonic War, Napoleonic Wars,
Speaker 1: because he was making war everywhere. Yeah, he was talented
Speaker 1: little guy. Um. So this was right when the Fifth
Speaker 1: Coalition formed in that year, and this, of course meant
Speaker 1: I'm saying, of course meant like everybody knows this, but
Speaker 1: this meant that an English diplomat like Bathurst needed to
Speaker 1: get out of Vienna and pretty quick. So for people
Speaker 1: who don't know what the Fifth Coalition is, that was
Speaker 1: between Britain and Austria. In Austria because France is trying
Speaker 1: to take over all of Europe and they are warring everywhere,
Speaker 1: and the Brits would not back down. England wasn't going
Speaker 1: to back down, and they were making allies with anybody
Speaker 1: that they had. And the name the Fifth Coalition should
Speaker 1: lead you to recognize that there had been a first,
Speaker 1: a second, a third, and a fourth coalition prior to
Speaker 1: this coalition. So they were bringing on allies to stand
Speaker 1: against Napoleon on a pretty regular basis. Now, the Fifth Coalition,
Speaker 1: I think, what did it last? Three or four years?
Speaker 1: Not very long? Yeah, it was very short lived, but
Speaker 1: I know it wasn't even years. It was from April
Speaker 1: tenth to October fourteenth, nineteen o eight. The Fifth Coalition,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, eighteen o nine, Okay, okay, because I swore
Speaker 1: it was one that had gone on for longer. But
Speaker 1: there were prior ones that managed for years. But so
Speaker 1: everybody that wasn't French was standing up against the French.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry the dates I just gave you, that
Speaker 1: was the war of the Fifth Coalition. Yes, okay, that
Speaker 1: that makes me feel bad. Sorry. Regardless of the Fifth Coalition,
Speaker 1: they had a couple of years under their belt before
Speaker 1: Napoleon literally squashed the whole thing. But this is and there,
Speaker 1: this is one of those times where it's just war
Speaker 1: upon war. Well, this was the beginning of the downhill
Speaker 1: slide for Napoleon. Yeah, and you know, eventually, of course,
Speaker 1: he was sent off to exile and eventually came back
Speaker 1: and said hello, remember me, and started all over again.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that later on the Mystery of Napoleon. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about about it. There's some mystery there. So
Speaker 1: in mid November of eighteen o nine is when Bathurst
Speaker 1: decided he really needed to get out of there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He um that's because Austria had flicked it in, right,
Speaker 1: it surrendered Napoleon. Correct. Yeah, Actually, um, I I know
Speaker 1: that Steve did a lot of research on this. I
Speaker 1: did a lot of research on this, but um, I
Speaker 1: bet Steve's notes are a little better than nine. So
Speaker 1: let's have like Uncle Steve's toy story time about a
Speaker 1: little bit of the stuff that was happening around the
Speaker 1: Napoleonic Wars in Vienna at that because I didn't well,
Speaker 1: you know, this is this is one of those things
Speaker 1: where I always rely on Joe to go super crazy
Speaker 1: the military campaigns, and then I ended up falling down
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole. Um, it really is. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: strange because what happens is the Fifth Coalition is going on,
Speaker 1: and Napoleon gets wind of it, and he's none too happy,
Speaker 1: and he brings his army to Vienna. At this point,
Speaker 1: he um he occupies Vienna. This is in May of
Speaker 1: eighteen o nine. He occupies Vienna, and he basically he
Speaker 1: thinks he's put down any resistance, YadA YadA, YadA, and
Speaker 1: everything's hunky dory, and then he's got some obviously, got
Speaker 1: a bunch of other campaigns going on. So he he
Speaker 1: leaves Vienna and a large portion of his troop force leaves. Well,
Speaker 1: it turns out the Fifth Coalition this is when they're
Speaker 1: stirring up all this trouble, and they make trouble. I
Speaker 1: guess that's the best way to put it. They make trouble.
Speaker 1: At this point, Napoleon realizes that he has to truly
Speaker 1: come back, and he truly has to put down what's
Speaker 1: going on in Vienna. And I believe that it is.
Speaker 1: It's pronounced the Battle of vagram Um okay, and that
Speaker 1: took place between the fifth and the sixth of July
Speaker 1: of eighteen o nine, and it's a weird battle because
Speaker 1: it literally took two days. Napoleon shows up, he forwards
Speaker 1: his army across the river in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: thinking he's got the upper hand. But this is when
Speaker 1: um guns are really becoming prevalent and cannons, and there
Speaker 1: are there are casualties somewhere in the neighborhood of fifty
Speaker 1: to seventy thousand men total between each side combined, but
Speaker 1: Napole But Napoleon ends up getting the wind. Not clearly,
Speaker 1: but he gets the win. A bunch of the generals
Speaker 1: that are fighting against him, the Austrian side, flee, they chase,
Speaker 1: some of them get killed, some of them get captured.
Speaker 1: But it's a really weird battle in the fact that
Speaker 1: it took such a short amount of time. And even
Speaker 1: stranger is that go figure as a dictator. Napoleon lied
Speaker 1: about the whole thing to the French people. In other words,
Speaker 1: he told them that he had lost, yeah, maybe two
Speaker 1: thousand men, maybe men, but they the enemy had suffered
Speaker 1: massive casualties. I'm not surprised, that's, you know. And how
Speaker 1: how the French people gonna find out, Well, they're not
Speaker 1: except that, oh, well, my husband didn't come home. Well
Speaker 1: he was one of the two thousands, or he died
Speaker 1: in another campaign. But that's why I said earlier, it
Speaker 1: was the beginning of the downhill slide for him because
Speaker 1: he wasn't getting these crazy decisive winds like he had
Speaker 1: in his early campaign. He lost a little momentum there.
Speaker 1: But that's that's obviously that's the problem, and you're we're
Speaker 1: talking about with Bathurst initially is that he's got to
Speaker 1: get out of town because because Napoleon's coming it down
Speaker 1: and nobody likes Napoleon. Napoleon didn't like the Brits. No. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the War of the Fifth Coalition ended on October of
Speaker 1: eighteen o nine, and that's when Austria ceded to Napoleon basically,
Speaker 1: and there was a little bit of a scuffle until
Speaker 1: early November nineteen I'm sorry, eighteen o nine, when finally
Speaker 1: the um French Bavarian army really defeated Austria in the
Speaker 1: Peninsular War. One other bit of kind of geographical history
Speaker 1: that I think that we need to talk about this
Speaker 1: and I'll keep this really brief for this story, is
Speaker 1: that the north west portion of that area was known
Speaker 1: as the Federation of the Rhine and it was composed
Speaker 1: of like nineteen kind of city states which it all
Speaker 1: all put their fealty towards Napoleon because they had already
Speaker 1: lost him previously. Are you talking about the northern parts
Speaker 1: of Austria. I'm talking about from Vienna north. There's a
Speaker 1: just to the west of Vienna. There's a band if
Speaker 1: you look at on the the eighteen o nine maps,
Speaker 1: and they just put it in this weird little grouping,
Speaker 1: but it is made up of all these individual areas
Speaker 1: that were run by um or whatever. They were barons
Speaker 1: and princes who were who under Napoleon went ahead and
Speaker 1: consolidated power in these small areas, but officially they were
Speaker 1: loyal to Napoleon. So this is something to keep in
Speaker 1: mind because this is the area that our dear little
Speaker 1: Mr Bathurst is going to be treading through. So um
Speaker 1: Bathurst decides again in like early mid November, that okay,
Speaker 1: it's time to get on out of here. And remember again,
Speaker 1: this is you know, eighteen o nine. We're not talking
Speaker 1: like hop on a train and hop on a well,
Speaker 1: I mean you could have hopped on a train, but
Speaker 1: we're not talking like hop in your own car. Because
Speaker 1: you're a British diplomat, it's hard to get on a
Speaker 1: train safely. Well, there weren't that many of them either, No,
Speaker 1: definitely not unless you're a soldier, in which case maybe
Speaker 1: there were some more. But anyway, he had a German
Speaker 1: courier or attendant, depending on like what you believe slash
Speaker 1: red how this person is described, I'm going to say attendant.
Speaker 1: His name was hair Krause r Krause, mr Krausse. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They decided rightly so probably to move under assumed alias
Speaker 1: is because um duh. So Benjamin Bathurst went by Baron
Speaker 1: de de Coke, went by Baron to Coke, and her
Speaker 1: Hair Krause went by Fisher. Benjamin made no contact with
Speaker 1: the brittle British console when he was traveling. This guy's
Speaker 1: name was Galoway mills Um when he arrived in Berlin,
Speaker 1: because he did arrive in Berlin from Austria to Berlin, Germany.
Speaker 1: Now he was heading north to catch a boat to
Speaker 1: head to England, right Um. Some of the accounts that
Speaker 1: you'll read say that he was headed to the Baltic see.
Speaker 1: Some of the counts you'll see said, no, he was
Speaker 1: gonna go to he was going to go south after
Speaker 1: a while. And some of the accounts you read say like,
Speaker 1: we don't know where he was going on just he
Speaker 1: was just going to go overland the entire time, all
Speaker 1: the way up to England, and he was actually originally
Speaker 1: considering going south to the Mediterranean. In hindsight, you probably
Speaker 1: should have done a good idea. How many times have
Speaker 1: we said that on this show the other way? Yeah? Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: so okay. So so Benjamin hits Berlin, but he doesn't
Speaker 1: go to see the British console there, which probably would
Speaker 1: have been a good idea. That is very unusual. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm mean you guys know, I hope our listeners understand
Speaker 1: how diplomacy works, but um, you would want to check
Speaker 1: in with the consoles if you're a diplomat, especially if
Speaker 1: you were fleeing, unless you really didn't trust them, or
Speaker 1: maybe he just didn't have time. Well okay, so he wasn't,
Speaker 1: as it turns out, because he did deliver two letters,
Speaker 1: so he had time to deliver the letters, but he
Speaker 1: didn't have time to even stop and drop a letter
Speaker 1: to the console there and say like, hey, passing through
Speaker 1: super endanger By. I've also read that. You know, if
Speaker 1: he's doing if he's not going to drop by the console,
Speaker 1: his I would presume his plan is to stay under
Speaker 1: his to stay in cover, to not break cover. And
Speaker 1: yet some of the reading that I've done made it
Speaker 1: clear that it was pretty obvious that everybody knew that
Speaker 1: he was in town. It wasn't as if it was
Speaker 1: a secret, which is, you know, that's counter to trying
Speaker 1: to stay in your role of being in your cover.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna be like, hey, it's me Ben Been,
Speaker 1: Hey here's your letter. I'm gonna go I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: staying at the end over here, and you know me,
Speaker 1: because I got this fancy pin in my head. But
Speaker 1: I gotta say he did not practice great trade craft.
Speaker 1: He really didn't. He changed his name and nothing else,
Speaker 1: and he wore very distinctive clothes and drew a distinctive carriage.
Speaker 1: He would have been wise to perhaps adopt a better
Speaker 1: disguise than just changing his name. I agree, and we'll
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that whole situation in a minute.
Speaker 1: But so, yeah, he did stop in Berlin. He delivered
Speaker 1: two letters to two separate gentleman's but again didn't stop
Speaker 1: with the console. He also changed horses in Berlin and
Speaker 1: hung out for a while. And this is the first
Speaker 1: time you see a date enter this story, so we
Speaker 1: have to make assumptions up until this point, but it
Speaker 1: is known. I guess that he left Berlin on November,
Speaker 1: so I gives him ten days to get to the
Speaker 1: next stop, which is strange because where he disappeared is
Speaker 1: only a hundred miles northwest of Berlin. Strangely with taking
Speaker 1: ten days to get there. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: my number is based out of Vienna, and I was like, no,
Speaker 1: it's five. It's five miles from Vienna, not from Berlin. Well,
Speaker 1: he might have made some other stops on the way.
Speaker 1: He must have it, I mean he must have. He
Speaker 1: had to have. And what kind of vehicle was he
Speaker 1: using for? He was he was traveling by a shave
Speaker 1: or you know it's spelled like chase. It's a two
Speaker 1: horse carriage, right, it can be too, It could be
Speaker 1: one of course carriage. But they're real lettle. I mean
Speaker 1: they're the open front ones. It's not an enclosed and
Speaker 1: it's got like just two wheels, not four, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes they have three, but I don't I think the
Speaker 1: three ones that you see are actually like driven a
Speaker 1: little bit, is it? It would? It would it be
Speaker 1: kind of similar to like a rick Shaw, similar example,
Speaker 1: a horse instead of a dude. Yeah, and a little bigger. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's not like luxury travel. Although in the
Speaker 1: book that his sister trip Athnia Thistle. Wait the wait,
Speaker 1: I love that name Trips. I'm gonna go with this
Speaker 1: looks like the kind of name you would see in
Speaker 1: a PG Woodhouse story or Harry Potter. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, this is my Harry Potter name. I like, Trypthinia.
Speaker 1: But how how are you saying it? I'm thinkin there's
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways? Um? Okay, So she is Um.
Speaker 1: She's Benjamin's sister, and she wrote a book called the
Speaker 1: Memoirs and Correspondence of Dr h. Bathurst, and she said
Speaker 1: that he was traveling with his entire suite. And I
Speaker 1: don't know what that means is necessarily, I think there's
Speaker 1: like a bunch of rooms. So that sounds like a
Speaker 1: little work for the There's another definition, which is like
Speaker 1: and entourage. Um. And it does sound like he was
Speaker 1: definitely traveling with more than the one attendant. But Harry
Speaker 1: Krauss was his an attendant when he was in Austrian Germany.
Speaker 1: So I this this is something that I'm glad that
Speaker 1: you did more research on the vehicle than I did.
Speaker 1: Because if I'm understanding this, this is a seat with
Speaker 1: a set of wheels under it is not a full enclosure.
Speaker 1: Would that be correct? Yeah, it's probably more like two seats.
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, my reason for that is the descriptions
Speaker 1: of his disappearance. I want this to be understood. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would encourage people to look up. It's like shas
Speaker 1: like a shay lounge. So it's c H A I
Speaker 1: S E. You can look it up and you will
Speaker 1: immediately go, oh that thing you know in in my
Speaker 1: uh my high class family, we call it a chase lounge. Um,
Speaker 1: I am from the woods and I know who you
Speaker 1: are anyway, Um, Benjamin was dressed in gray trousers on
Speaker 1: the day of his disappeared. Well, this was his traveling gear,
Speaker 1: so it was the entire time he was basically wearing this.
Speaker 1: He was dressed in gray trousers, a gray frogged short coat.
Speaker 1: Frogs are okay, frogs are. This is where my degree
Speaker 1: comes in hand. Two times here tis here So you
Speaker 1: know when you see the like really ornate embroidery on
Speaker 1: either side, and then you've got the thing that's just
Speaker 1: a ball that goes through loop. Okay, for everybody who's
Speaker 1: not in the studio, Devin is pointing at where the
Speaker 1: lapels of a jacket it's on your it's instead of buttons.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be up here to be all
Speaker 1: the way down. I that was just a convenient place
Speaker 1: for me to be in front of the microphone. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: And then so it's the little ball that goes through loop.
Speaker 1: It's not a button. It's all fabric or embroidery. So
Speaker 1: you guys know what those are, yeah, from wearing right now? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And a short coat is um, it's a short coat. Um,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a like a fur lined capelet
Speaker 1: that has sleeves. Is is this kind of like the
Speaker 1: short eighties gene jacket that has currently come back into fashion,
Speaker 1: you know, like if you take that length but make
Speaker 1: it a cloak with sleeves. Yes, Okay, so I was
Speaker 1: right fashion. Okay, we'll just go ahead and a grating
Speaker 1: disagree on that one. Um. Anyway, so he wore his
Speaker 1: gray frogged shortcoat over a sable for greatcoat lined with
Speaker 1: I'm sorry over which he wore. That's how I wrote it.
Speaker 1: You're welcome over which he wore a sable for greatcoat
Speaker 1: which was lined with a violet velvet and a matching
Speaker 1: sable hat. Spending wardrobe there. Yes, he also had a
Speaker 1: scarf and a very valuable diamond pin that like you know,
Speaker 1: pinned the scarf. Probably he was wearing it kind of
Speaker 1: like a jibo, which is like when you you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm sorry, I'm like trying to find it, well,
Speaker 1: all staying in scarf and wrapped around and then you
Speaker 1: put a pin right here. Yeah. I was just talking
Speaker 1: about you guys know this guy, right, I mean you've
Speaker 1: seen paintings of this guy of course, right, yea, And yeah,
Speaker 1: obviously a wealthy guy. Yeah, I like to show it
Speaker 1: and not really hiding it while traveling through like rural
Speaker 1: enemy territory. Yeah, not wise. Alright, So okay, what is
Speaker 1: our boy doing? Okay, So he arrives in Pearlberg, Germany
Speaker 1: on November eighteen. Oh not, I'm sorry. Um, it was
Speaker 1: kind of in the like mid day is my understanding
Speaker 1: of when he arrived, and he spent the afternoon writing
Speaker 1: letters and then burning those letters, some letters, not all
Speaker 1: of them, some of them, and then he went to
Speaker 1: a local coffee house where he contacted one Captain Klitzing,
Speaker 1: who was the commander of a squadron of like crusade
Speaker 1: basically like friendly soldiers in that town. Um friendly to
Speaker 1: his English plate and basically he said he was a
Speaker 1: merchant and he didn't think he was safe, so could um,
Speaker 1: could the captain please provide him with a couple of
Speaker 1: soldiers to guard him? And the captain probably saying like crap, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a really boring place. You can have a
Speaker 1: couple of soldiers. He was also super agitated. He according
Speaker 1: to the According to the accountings, Bathurst was making all
Speaker 1: of the gestures of a guy who was whigging out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He apparently couldn't even hold a cup of coffee to
Speaker 1: his lips without trembling. He was really freaked out. That's
Speaker 1: what happens with me, right, So the captain says, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can have a couple of guards. We're not really
Speaker 1: doing that much right now anyway, So here you go. Um.
Speaker 1: So Bathurst goes back to the inn, which was called
Speaker 1: the White Swan, that he was staying at um and
Speaker 1: where his horse and carriage were stable blah blah blah um,
Speaker 1: and that that's where he had been writing letters as well.
Speaker 1: Was that in um, he goes back with his two guards. Um,
Speaker 1: he slept fitfully on a table for a couple hours
Speaker 1: in like the middle of the afternoon, which is what
Speaker 1: happens when you have a bunch of coffee, right, Because
Speaker 1: this plan was to travel at night to attention, right, well,
Speaker 1: it became his plan when he originally arrived in town.
Speaker 1: He had asked one of the locals if they could
Speaker 1: switch out horses, which I guess is like a thing
Speaker 1: that you could to post post for horses. And he
Speaker 1: had said, we're gonna leave tomorrow morning. We're gonna stay
Speaker 1: the night, We're gonna leave tomorrow morning. Can you have
Speaker 1: the horses ready for that time? And um, the what
Speaker 1: it's called an ulster. What the ulster said was of
Speaker 1: course no problem. When he woke up from his fit
Speaker 1: full sleep around seven bathroost actually said, you know what, No,
Speaker 1: it's going to be safer for us to travel at night,
Speaker 1: So actually, can you have those horses ready by like nine?
Speaker 1: And the ulster said, okay, dude, it's Ostler. Correct. Oh,
Speaker 1: I like Ulster better, but it's you're right, it's Awfler.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. He's a stable hand. Yeah, stable hand and
Speaker 1: also spelled with an h or without an age. We
Speaker 1: just got the French pronitciation with the age of silence hand. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the guy who's in charge of the horses um says, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we can get those horses ready for you by nine,
Speaker 1: No problem, jerk, I got nothing else to do. So
Speaker 1: at seven, when he woke up from his fit full sleep,
Speaker 1: Bathurst Benjamin Benjamin Bathurst. I just realized I've been calling
Speaker 1: him Benjamin this entire time. Now I'm switching to Bathurst. Sorry,
Speaker 1: you get a little too familiar there, Yeah. Sorry. Mr
Speaker 1: Bathurst's dismisses his guards. So at seven, he dismisses his
Speaker 1: guards and then he goes outside to oversee the reloading
Speaker 1: of his things onto the carriage, which is just like
Speaker 1: on the back of the carriage again a very not
Speaker 1: a very high enclosed vehicle. Yeah. So he goes out,
Speaker 1: he steps around the horses, like onto the other side
Speaker 1: of where the horses are. Yeah. I heard the story
Speaker 1: as he and he and hair Krause basically headed out
Speaker 1: to to like hop aboard and he like basically headed
Speaker 1: around the front of the horses basically as if he
Speaker 1: was going to climb into the driver's seat. If you're
Speaker 1: an American on the left hand side drive the car,
Speaker 1: and then you have heard that account, that account is inaccurate.
Speaker 1: Not the only account that I've ever heard. That's one
Speaker 1: of the account But that's not as far as I
Speaker 1: can tell, that's not actually what happened. But um, we
Speaker 1: can yeah, we can do. The fans. The other accounts
Speaker 1: say that he left to go check out the horses.
Speaker 1: So why don't we just let's just tell the fantasy
Speaker 1: version real quick, one that you hear the most often. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the fantasy version is that Krauss and Bathurst go
Speaker 1: out and then so Bathurst goes around the front of
Speaker 1: the horses to get in the driver's seat and just
Speaker 1: disappears into thin hair. So basically he disappears behind the
Speaker 1: horse and then never never reappeared at or the carriage, yeah,
Speaker 1: or the latter or whatever whatever. Yeah, the more reputable
Speaker 1: accounts I've heard of this says that Bathurst went out
Speaker 1: to check on the horses and to oversee the loading
Speaker 1: of his things a little bit before Kraus. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: Krauss was still inside. Um. And then when when Bathurst
Speaker 1: didn't return for an hour, went outside and was like,
Speaker 1: have you guys seen that guy? And everyone was like, no,
Speaker 1: he just disappeared, and I remember seeing some stuff. There
Speaker 1: was some discussion that Krauss had presumed that maybe he
Speaker 1: had gone to the out house, or maybe he had
Speaker 1: gone back in the building and unbeknownst to kroused, or
Speaker 1: maybe he had gone back to see who is the
Speaker 1: guy that assigned the soldiers to him? Uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like maybe he had gone back to see him for
Speaker 1: some unknown reason. So he's just like, you know what,
Speaker 1: he's my boss, he does this stuff. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: hang out wait for him. It's really kind of what
Speaker 1: why not? I mean, yeah, you had no idea that
Speaker 1: he disappeared. Yeah, and that's it, um, I mean Bathroost attendance. Obviously,
Speaker 1: as soon as they realized he was missing, went looking
Speaker 1: for him, but they didn't find anything. And it was
Speaker 1: also kind of the middle of the night. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, November nine pm. Um, it's not exactly like
Speaker 1: dark dark like it is for us right now is
Speaker 1: super dark and it's not even nine and it's yeah
Speaker 1: it's not nine. Yeah, So that's it. That's our story.
Speaker 1: Kind of there's a couple of a couple of details.
Speaker 1: Uh so, a couple other little details to add here
Speaker 1: on December six, too old women. Okay, I guess I
Speaker 1: should back up a little bit. Um. The version that
Speaker 1: I am choosing to believe is Bathurst was traveling with
Speaker 1: more than one attendant, I believe, and not unusual for
Speaker 1: which is definitely not unusual. I think it was him
Speaker 1: and Krauss in the one courage thing that they had,
Speaker 1: and then there attendance that we're following, maybe on foot,
Speaker 1: maybe on horseback, but kind of at a safe distance,
Speaker 1: so it didn't seem like it was this huge entourage
Speaker 1: of an important person, but they were all there. And
Speaker 1: so it is my understanding that Krauss stayed in Pearlsburg
Speaker 1: Pearlburg Sorry to investigate this disappearance, and sent the additional
Speaker 1: attendance on to England to deliver the news of bathurst disappearance.
Speaker 1: But you will see often in other versions that Krauss
Speaker 1: was the only one traveling with him and was the
Speaker 1: attendant that went on to um the UK or to
Speaker 1: London to report his disappearance and then returned to do
Speaker 1: some more investigation. And I think that's the problem with
Speaker 1: the stories because this story is two years old and
Speaker 1: it is it is very um exaggerated at times, and
Speaker 1: it has been exaggerated many times over the decades. I
Speaker 1: think that's part of why we have this differing many
Speaker 1: variations of who was there are and who delivered the
Speaker 1: he's missing. So I will tell you the reason that
Speaker 1: I believe that Kraus stayed behind is that Krauss was
Speaker 1: familiar with Bathurst's family. He had been his attendant for
Speaker 1: a very long time. UM. I think since he had
Speaker 1: become a diplomat, that's my understanding that he had kind
Speaker 1: of been his main attendant. UM. So he was familiar
Speaker 1: and friendly with the Bathurst family and UM. In Trythinia's
Speaker 1: Trifina's version of this story, she went with her father
Speaker 1: when they had been they had been called by a
Speaker 1: local magistrate to receive this news. So they went to
Speaker 1: the magistrate house in the magistrate said, an attendant came
Speaker 1: and told me that, you know, Benjamin Bathurst is missing.
Speaker 1: And it is my sense that had Kraus, this long
Speaker 1: time attendant and like good family friend, been the one
Speaker 1: to deliver the news, he would have been there and
Speaker 1: she would have mentioned, oh and you know Krauss was there.
Speaker 1: So that's that's my reasoning behind that. Just just um,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's totally possible. It's different. Like you said,
Speaker 1: it's like two years old, so who knows anyway, So
Speaker 1: we're going to go ahead and assume that cross stayed
Speaker 1: and everybody else went. Um. So, on December sixt so,
Speaker 1: three ish weeks later, two old women bought brought Krause
Speaker 1: a pair of plants pants that they said belonged to Bathurst. Well,
Speaker 1: they said they found them in the woods where they
Speaker 1: were gathering firewood. Maybe yeah, that's true. They were they
Speaker 1: were great trousers. But yeah, well there was there was
Speaker 1: there was there was a letter in there. There was
Speaker 1: a letter, but we can talk about that letter a second. Um.
Speaker 1: They found them apparently in a stand up trees a
Speaker 1: cops of trees, um um, just outside of town. They
Speaker 1: contained nothing but two bullet holes and a hand scrawled
Speaker 1: in pencil note on a scrap of paper to Benjamin
Speaker 1: Bathurst's wife. I am I'm not convinced that this was
Speaker 1: actually from him. Well, and there's no blood. There's no blood,
Speaker 1: so the bullet holes are likely fake. And I think
Speaker 1: it's likely that this letter is fake. You know, they
Speaker 1: say it was scrawled in you know, like kind of
Speaker 1: a really haphazard handwriting. I don't believe that this is his. Well,
Speaker 1: and I feel like there's a bit of fanciful edition
Speaker 1: because the letter says I don't trust so and so
Speaker 1: when I'm going to be betrayed, and please don't marry again.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about the actual contents of this note
Speaker 1: in curies because it does feed into one of the theories.
Speaker 1: But it is my general sense that pretty much everything,
Speaker 1: whether these were his pants or not. They may have
Speaker 1: actually been his pants, but that pretty much everything surrounding
Speaker 1: his pants was totally false fied. I don't think the
Speaker 1: note was his. I don't think the bullet holes, yeah,
Speaker 1: they just weren't they like, well, they weren't fired or
Speaker 1: any one was in the pants. And I, um, and
Speaker 1: I should note that, um, it's very likely that these
Speaker 1: pants were planted there a couple of days before they
Speaker 1: were found, or maybe even that the old women were lying, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're lying about the pants out there, or they didn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't have to put the pants out there.
Speaker 1: They could have just brought him and said we found
Speaker 1: these in the Woods when we were looking for mushrooms
Speaker 1: blah where old women believe us of old ladies are
Speaker 1: always looking for mushrooms. Yeah, yeah, so uh, Bathurst's brother
Speaker 1: and or no, I'm sorry, his wife and her brother
Speaker 1: traveled to Germany to find out what had happened to Bathurst.
Speaker 1: There was definitely, uh at the time, a lot of
Speaker 1: rumors about this being a French conspiracy to get rid
Speaker 1: of this diplomat. So they apparently, again according to the
Speaker 1: fanciful version, had an audience with Napoleon himself. I did
Speaker 1: not think, however, much more likely some like random proxy
Speaker 1: for Napoleon met with them and of course just said, no,
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about, Like, no,
Speaker 1: who bath Bathurst? But bath Bathurst? No, I don't know
Speaker 1: who that never heard the name? No a bath I
Speaker 1: don't know. Is that some sort of new fangled way
Speaker 1: to to bathe yourself? I don't understand that that whole
Speaker 1: description right there. Now, I cannot get Napoleon from Bill
Speaker 1: and Ted's excellent Adventure out of my head. Right, that's right,
Speaker 1: because that is exactly how he behaved. I got to
Speaker 1: see that movie again. It's been too wrong. He everything
Speaker 1: I know about history. Yeah, that's everything I know. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: wasn't so crazy. So now we're on two theories. Um So,
Speaker 1: in true Devon fashion, we're doing like there's a couple
Speaker 1: of subheadings of theories. You mean riddled with bullet points. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they real bullet points. Are fake, they're real bullet points.
Speaker 1: So the first kind of subheading of theories is thief
Speaker 1: or theft, depending on like if you do spell check
Speaker 1: or not. It was obviously well with rob Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think so. So it turns out that Bathurst,
Speaker 1: you know, just even his the way he was dressing.
Speaker 1: Notwithstanding he may have been like pulling out his really
Speaker 1: expensive pocket watch and like flaunting it around and kind
Speaker 1: of flashing his really heavy coin purse around and lit
Speaker 1: kind of poverty ridden town, yeah, place that was kind
Speaker 1: of an a war zone or refugees and bandits, and
Speaker 1: he's wearing this massively expensive sable coat, his diamond. I
Speaker 1: really feel like he was a bit naive of the
Speaker 1: world because he'd been raised to be a diplomat, he
Speaker 1: had been raised to be around the court all the time,
Speaker 1: to be he had no idea that people would assigned
Speaker 1: value to this itty bitty stone on a pin that
Speaker 1: I just used to hold my scarf. And well, I
Speaker 1: think that I think likely he did actually know that
Speaker 1: people would assigned value to that. But what the value
Speaker 1: that he thought that people would assign to that was respect, right,
Speaker 1: Because if you're a diplomat, that's how you garner respect
Speaker 1: is you make an entrance as somebody who should be
Speaker 1: listened to because they dress in the way that you know,
Speaker 1: gardner's respect. And if you're a cut persons a meal.
Speaker 1: But if you're in like rural war torn that's not
Speaker 1: like hey, respect, You're like, hey, look at that idiot.
Speaker 1: He has a lot of stuff that I would like
Speaker 1: to have. Thank you. I could, I bet I could
Speaker 1: him over the head and just take it. All right.
Speaker 1: So it's not unlikely that this was the theft um.
Speaker 1: But there's two different ways that this could have gone down.
Speaker 1: One is it could have been a theft and like
Speaker 1: dropping like left for dead sort of situation. Or it
Speaker 1: could have been a theft in murderer, And let's talk
Speaker 1: about both theories and the same they're a little the same.
Speaker 1: One is that to kill in the other implies, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's the the old TV show I bunk you
Speaker 1: over the head and take your stuff and you wake
Speaker 1: up an hour later and go and I'm naked. Yeah exactly. Um,
Speaker 1: So the we're going to talk about the like theft
Speaker 1: in being dropped theory. First. This comes from This comes
Speaker 1: from Trifina's book. Um, this little it's like a footnote
Speaker 1: in her book actually, and will link to this book.
Speaker 1: It's on Google Play. It's I think it's probably like
Speaker 1: a free resource at this point. It's like almost two
Speaker 1: years old. It's so royalty free at this point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hope. So no copyrights. I don't think you have
Speaker 1: to buy it to read it. It's all on Google
Speaker 1: which is pretty great actually like that and pro tip,
Speaker 1: we're going to post the book, but you can like
Speaker 1: search within the book just search for Benjamin and then
Speaker 1: you only get the pertinent stuff because it's no it's
Speaker 1: like all of the correspondence of her father anyway, Apparently,
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty possible that he could have been abducted
Speaker 1: and you know, taken some of the valuable stuff but
Speaker 1: left some other stuff and then he was just kind
Speaker 1: of like in the middle of nowhere and didn't really
Speaker 1: know where to go. So there's this one account from
Speaker 1: um a quote unquote girl at the time, and I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure that what girl means is like a young
Speaker 1: woman who works in a house, not like an actual child. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But she reported that a couple of days after Bathurst disappeared, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, she worked in the house of a console
Speaker 1: near the sea, which was a considerable distance quote unquote
Speaker 1: from Pearlberg. But it was on the sea, so I
Speaker 1: don't think it's like that much. I don't know how Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's yeah, but not like a thousand miles or anything
Speaker 1: like that. It's about a week's travel. Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 1: on foot. Um, and it was I would say, like
Speaker 1: four or five days later. She reported that a man
Speaker 1: had come knocking at the door late at night on
Speaker 1: a rainy night, and she said that she, you know,
Speaker 1: took her little light, whether it was a candle or
Speaker 1: like a hurricane lantern or something, um to answer the door,
Speaker 1: and UM saw for a brief moment a man who
Speaker 1: quote matched bathurst description. He was wearing a traveling cap
Speaker 1: and a short fur trimmed coat. Basically she called it
Speaker 1: a rock here um, which is like a lined and
Speaker 1: trimmed coat which like reaches to the knee that's got
Speaker 1: like a what's trimmed with fur with a bright lining
Speaker 1: kind of p yeah, and uh so she answers the
Speaker 1: door and catches a glimpse of him, and but of course,
Speaker 1: since it's a rainy night, the light blow is out,
Speaker 1: so she only catches a glimpse of him creepy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And a guy with um an English accent asks for
Speaker 1: the master of the house and um, she says, well,
Speaker 1: he's not in right now. Also it's the middle of
Speaker 1: the night, so she's probably like he's asleep, dude, like
Speaker 1: what are you doing? But she says, he's not in
Speaker 1: right now, but I'll tell him you called right you
Speaker 1: were here if you'll tell me who you are. And
Speaker 1: he says, never mind that, but um, he asked to
Speaker 1: tell He asked her to tell her master that an
Speaker 1: English gentleman wanted to see him at the post house tomorrow.
Speaker 1: So her master did actually go like, I wouldn't do it,
Speaker 1: but okay, UM went to the post house and actually
Speaker 1: asked after the gentleman and it turned out that he
Speaker 1: had just been there and he had just left. But
Speaker 1: apparently an English gentleman had actually been at the post
Speaker 1: house waiting for him um in the morning. And there's
Speaker 1: two separate reports of boats who original need from the
Speaker 1: area where this console was in charge of wrecked yea
Speaker 1: being lost at se So there's the theory that Bathurst
Speaker 1: was this like weird gentleman caller and that he had
Speaker 1: been trying to get help from the console but had
Speaker 1: somehow otherwise booked passage. Yeah, but it couldn't have been
Speaker 1: him because he's wearing this long for a code. But
Speaker 1: the baths for cut was found back in pearl Well later,
Speaker 1: Yeah it was, but it was found later back in Pearlsburg,
Speaker 1: So you're right, this probably wasn't him. With the credibility
Speaker 1: for this is that at that time in an Austrian area,
Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of Englishmen running around, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean this is this is French controlled territory. But
Speaker 1: it is French controlled territory. That is what the one
Speaker 1: of the things the Battle of Vagram did and the
Speaker 1: Federation of the Rhine that his whole area is now
Speaker 1: is controlled by Napoleon. It's it's it's French, so I guess,
Speaker 1: so it's it's hostile territory. It's not as if I'm
Speaker 1: like I'm going to take a vacation. No, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna do that. No, but it is a time where
Speaker 1: you probably are going to see a lot of weird
Speaker 1: English gentleman showing up at friendly houses saying like help
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Right, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess for me, it's it's an easy coincidence. The well,
Speaker 1: my my response to that is a lot of those
Speaker 1: wars were not sudden or unexpected. In other words, if
Speaker 1: you are a tradesman traveling in an area and you
Speaker 1: can tell that the threat is eminent, you don't go.
Speaker 1: You know what, I'll finish my business and then I'll
Speaker 1: kind of make my way. Now you get the hell
Speaker 1: out of dodge. So most of those guys would have fleed.
Speaker 1: And this is again, this is in December. The Battle
Speaker 1: of Vagram happened in July. There is many many months later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so yeah, dangerously that's true. Some are very just blatantly oblivious.
Speaker 1: But okay, so let's talk about the theory that it
Speaker 1: was a theft and a murder, right, that like he
Speaker 1: just got hit over the head as he was walking
Speaker 1: past the horses and dragged somewhere else and then suddenly
Speaker 1: like uh, you know, the guy who they you know,
Speaker 1: gave a couple the guy who's in charge of the horses,
Speaker 1: they gave a couple of coins to and said like, hey,
Speaker 1: just say he disappeared by um said, oh, hey just disappeared.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what happened. And then you know,
Speaker 1: thus became an unsolved mystery. Uh, there's some really good
Speaker 1: evidence for this one. On April fifte of eighteen fifty two,
Speaker 1: during a demolition of a house in Um on our
Speaker 1: Homburg Road, which was in pearlburg Um, which was pretty
Speaker 1: close to the Inn the White Swan where baths had
Speaker 1: been staying, there was a skeleton that was discovered under
Speaker 1: the threshold of the stable area. The back of the
Speaker 1: skull showed a pretty significant fracture that was obviously like
Speaker 1: from a blow of a heavy instrument and would have
Speaker 1: killed someone. Yeah. Um, all of the upper teeth of
Speaker 1: this skull were quote unquote perfect for the time. Well
Speaker 1: obviously it wasn't British perfect. But the the lower jaw
Speaker 1: um one of the lower molars, showed signs of having
Speaker 1: been removed um professionally so by dentist um. So that's
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that's like early dental records. Right,
Speaker 1: that's an early sign of being able to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: my brother Benjamin Bathurst had one of his molars removed
Speaker 1: by a dentist at this time, so it's likely him.
Speaker 1: It was a dentist, a barber who used a chisel
Speaker 1: to knock it out of your head, right, or like
Speaker 1: somebody got punched and it broke. Yeah, usually bowler still
Speaker 1: get broken off from right. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's I'm sorry, it's hyberbally accidents happened. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: Trithenia was in Perlsburg for some reason when this house
Speaker 1: was being demolished year later. I don't know if it's possible.
Speaker 1: It's certainly possible that the mystery was so prevalent locally
Speaker 1: that somebody said, hey, we're demolishing a house, you want
Speaker 1: to come hang out also, but it's also possible that
Speaker 1: she just kind of was obsessed with the disappearance of
Speaker 1: her older brother and kind of hung out. Actually, that
Speaker 1: she wasn't there exactly when after it was discovered somebody
Speaker 1: actually notified her and came down and look at that's
Speaker 1: probably the more likely. That's way more likely. Anyhow, So
Speaker 1: she said she didn't think that skeleton was her brother's,
Speaker 1: although it was, you know, fifty years on, so I
Speaker 1: don't really know how she would have known that. She
Speaker 1: said the brow wasn't nearly as high and pronounced. But
Speaker 1: also the thing is, when you look at a skull,
Speaker 1: it's doesn't look like the head, at which point, if
Speaker 1: you're not trained to know that, it is extraordinarily hard
Speaker 1: for layman to reconstruct. Yes, the muscular features of a face.
Speaker 1: I appear to have a giant forehead because I have
Speaker 1: no hair, when in fact I don't actually have that
Speaker 1: big of a I'm not a billboard brow, right, you've
Speaker 1: got kind of a neanders thank you, Yes you are.
Speaker 1: I don't think appropriately to be honest with you. I like, realistically,
Speaker 1: if I saw either of your skulls, I don't think
Speaker 1: I'd be able to be like, no, that's not step
Speaker 1: or Joe. No, definitely not especially fifty years later. You know.
Speaker 1: It's one thing to say like in you know, as
Speaker 1: soon as you've got a skull, Oh yeah, that's that school.
Speaker 1: But it's been fifty years. That's why that kind of
Speaker 1: reconstruction is an arch Yeah, it really is um to
Speaker 1: make matters worse. This house that was being demolished. Um.
Speaker 1: The owner of this house was a mason named I'm sorry, Joe,
Speaker 1: can you help me with this pronunciation? Keyserve? That sounds
Speaker 1: like an insult um? And he bought the house in
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty four from a man named Christian Merton's, who
Speaker 1: in turn had inherited the house from his father, who
Speaker 1: had purchased the house in eighteen oh three his dad
Speaker 1: Okay Well. Actually turns out Merson Sr. Had actually been
Speaker 1: a servant at Dundundun, White Swan in eighteen o nine,
Speaker 1: and in spite of being a servant his entire life
Speaker 1: and living on servant wages, he had been able to
Speaker 1: offer dowries of U a hundred and fifty and a
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty pounds respectively from two of his daughters.
Speaker 1: He didn't offer them, he settled them. In other words,
Speaker 1: he was in debt for those amounts he gave. He
Speaker 1: gave that amount of money promised dowries. I took the
Speaker 1: settling part of this to mean that he had agreed
Speaker 1: to a dowry of x amount for each of his daughters,
Speaker 1: which equated to this two hundred and seventy pound value,
Speaker 1: and he had he was making payments and then suddenly
Speaker 1: was able to pay it off. That's the way I
Speaker 1: interpreted as as a he had a debt of this
Speaker 1: amount and suddenly interesting paid it off. Yeah, okay, that's
Speaker 1: a good way to interpret it. Either way, he came
Speaker 1: into a crap ton of money. Yes, because you have
Speaker 1: to remember this is like we're talking eighteen o nine
Speaker 1: money and I haven't bothered to do the conversion. Two
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy pounds is decades worth of income. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a ton of money. But I wonder this, if
Speaker 1: you're the daughter who whose dowry was pounds, how does
Speaker 1: that make you feel? Well, you're probably the younger daughter.
Speaker 1: Let's let's value there. That doesn't make it sting any less. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's accepted. So societal thing that make it sting A
Speaker 1: first daughters are worth more because they could and I
Speaker 1: don't know about like German law, but typically, um, if
Speaker 1: you have no sons. This guy did have a son.
Speaker 1: But if you have no sons or the sun becomes
Speaker 1: unable to inherit the property, the first auto will inherit
Speaker 1: the property because she's worth more. A second daughter might
Speaker 1: inherit the property if everything really goes wrong unless the
Speaker 1: second daughter has got other like attributes. They don't, they
Speaker 1: don't really so much yet. But it is I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it's like the worth the value is. This
Speaker 1: is like so okay, but I think the value is
Speaker 1: it's the first daughter is like quote unquote worth more
Speaker 1: than the second daughter. You see that in Shakespeare. Please
Speaker 1: don't please don't send us letters sexist. This is we
Speaker 1: totally know this is. None of us are paying men
Speaker 1: to take our daughters off our hands. Don't worry, don't worry.
Speaker 1: But it is pretty extraordinary that in eighteen o nine
Speaker 1: somebody was suddenly able to be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: actually I have two seventy pounds right here. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: prop not at all out of the out of the question.
Speaker 1: These guys were in a position to observe him, and
Speaker 1: obviously they knew the area really well. They cost him
Speaker 1: and taking the stuff. Yeah, and then an additional like
Speaker 1: nail in the coffin of this one is that, um,
Speaker 1: it's reported that that horse horse watcher guy the Ostler, Uh,
Speaker 1: he apparently just like abandoned ship a couple of days
Speaker 1: after bathrooms. Yeah, he just disappeared a couple of days
Speaker 1: after after Bathurst disappeared. His name was august Augustine Schmidt
Speaker 1: and uh On November nine, Bathurst's valuable for coat was
Speaker 1: discovered hidden in an outhouse that was owned by family
Speaker 1: that was named Schmidt. Can I ask you a question, sure,
Speaker 1: how far away from the White Swan was the Schmidt property?
Speaker 1: I've never seen it described, so I'm asking nothing was
Speaker 1: very far from anything in this town. It was all
Speaker 1: pretty local. Okay. But but okay, So then the other
Speaker 1: thing to bring up, I'm going to talk about something
Speaker 1: a second, but I also want to bring up with
Speaker 1: the fact that all of the buildings in the area
Speaker 1: upon bathroost disappearance were scoured by the local authorities, so
Speaker 1: they had been in presumably as much as they wanted
Speaker 1: to be. They had scoured the interior of said outhouse. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's pretty easy to like overlook
Speaker 1: an out house, though I don't know. I don't want
Speaker 1: to make that assumption. So that's why I'm bring But
Speaker 1: it was also it was of that year, so it
Speaker 1: was like two days after he disappeared, so it could
Speaker 1: have been discovered in in said scouring. Okay, I'm actually
Speaker 1: they would leave in the outhouse so, because the thing
Speaker 1: about it is is even if the police choose not
Speaker 1: to search the outhouse when they're on in search mode,
Speaker 1: they still have to go to the bathroom they So
Speaker 1: it seems like not the best way because I read
Speaker 1: other accounts that was actually found in their house and
Speaker 1: not in their outhouse. Possible again, so it seems like
Speaker 1: a better place for a sable, I would be keeping
Speaker 1: a stable in the outhouse. My My reason for asking
Speaker 1: the distance from the White Swan to the outhouse is
Speaker 1: that I questioned if maybe while going out to check
Speaker 1: the horses or check the shay Bathurst was sudden suddenly
Speaker 1: seized by a very inconvenient, imprompressive need to find a
Speaker 1: place to I don't think it's I don't think it
Speaker 1: was that close. Okay, that wasn't like adjacent to the property. Okay.
Speaker 1: That's why I was asking it, like I'm going to
Speaker 1: take this off and stuffed here because I don't want
Speaker 1: to be wearing it while I'm doing that. I don't
Speaker 1: usually just crap in the street, okay. And I guess
Speaker 1: like to alleviate all of these fears, um Schmidt's mother
Speaker 1: admitted to have taken the coat and she worked at
Speaker 1: worked at the White Swan. I saw there were not
Speaker 1: very many places to work in this town. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was the White Swan or the coffee house, and that's
Speaker 1: pretty much the posthouse across across the roads were so though,
Speaker 1: a woman who was employed at the coffee house said
Speaker 1: that after Bathurst had visited her establishment. You remember that
Speaker 1: she that he visited there to talk to the captain,
Speaker 1: that Augustine Schmidt had come in and said, hey, where'd
Speaker 1: that guy go? Um? And then hastened after him and
Speaker 1: quote unquote, she supposed taken some opportunity to destroy him,
Speaker 1: or maybe she just wanted to, like, you know, collect
Speaker 1: on a bill or something. Well, there were there were hours.
Speaker 1: There were accounted for hours between when Bathurst disappeared and
Speaker 1: when I'm sorry, when Bathurst left the coffee house and
Speaker 1: when he disappeared, that he's accounted for. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: like swiftly carried out whatever happened to Bathurst. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: the the only thing that I want to point out
Speaker 1: about this hole there was the skeleton found with the
Speaker 1: skull with the fractures on it. Is this was one
Speaker 1: of three or four total that we're discovered in the
Speaker 1: town over time. So it's not as if this is
Speaker 1: the only one. But it is an indication of the
Speaker 1: caliber of this town. But and it is a nice
Speaker 1: convenient little trail of Hey, these people actually worked there,
Speaker 1: and one of the guys was like, here's suddenly all
Speaker 1: this money right after Bathurst disappeared. But that that also
Speaker 1: makes it completely possible that two years prior, some other
Speaker 1: rich dude flouting his giant wad of cash got clubbed
Speaker 1: in the back of the head and stuffed under the stairs.
Speaker 1: Absolutely it could have been anybody could. Yeah. And again
Speaker 1: this whole this whole stating murder victims on your own property.
Speaker 1: I just I still don't get it. I've not said
Speaker 1: this before. I'm a big believer. And take him out
Speaker 1: to the woods or dropping him in a lake or
Speaker 1: something like that. I mean, I guess I understand it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I understand it if you're planning on living
Speaker 1: there for really long time and it's like in your house,
Speaker 1: like under the floorboard, which is which is what this was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was under the kitchen. Yeah it was still creep
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's still really really creepy. But it's safer
Speaker 1: there because you know, you're going to be able to
Speaker 1: control in eighteen o nine, you know, you're going to
Speaker 1: be able to control someone like coming in and pulling
Speaker 1: up the floorboards in your house. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: that creepy for the era if you think about how
Speaker 1: how common death is and to us, like anybody dying
Speaker 1: around us is weird. But back in that day, people
Speaker 1: dropped like flies all the time. Oh I got a
Speaker 1: hangouts And actually, you know the people that knows in
Speaker 1: eighteen o nine, and they hadn't grown up on a
Speaker 1: steady diet of horror movie, was it like they were
Speaker 1: like and then read read real, that's just not normal? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so um yeah, I mean I think it's likely that
Speaker 1: he just kind of got hit over the head and
Speaker 1: bobbed and then you know, op somewhere, and that a
Speaker 1: bunch of people in the town may have been complicit,
Speaker 1: you know together. That's a that's the amount of stuff
Speaker 1: that he had on him would have been enough to
Speaker 1: furnish a couple different families in the town a significant
Speaker 1: increase in income. The only the only thing that that
Speaker 1: makes me want to lean towards this is the dowry payments.
Speaker 1: The diamond pin is completely untraceable because diamonds can be
Speaker 1: pulled out of a setting, especially a diamond pin. It's
Speaker 1: not going to be a crazy big diamond. The rest
Speaker 1: of it is clothing which disintegrates over time. It is
Speaker 1: not going to be capped long term as an over
Speaker 1: multiple generations long term. Yeah, and it's not as though
Speaker 1: like dummy McGhee over here is going to be like
Speaker 1: two weeks later, Hey, look at this fancy coat I
Speaker 1: suddenly found. Actually I've seen that on the internet. But right,
Speaker 1: but we're much dumber than those people were because we
Speaker 1: have a series of tubes that funnels idiocracy. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Actually moving the diamond and disable could have been done,
Speaker 1: just not locally. It goes you know, which it turns
Speaker 1: out is not that far away, not really, And you
Speaker 1: know what, black markets are a beautiful thing. Also, again,
Speaker 1: they don't have like a series of tubes, so you know,
Speaker 1: if you do it within a couple of weeks, it's
Speaker 1: not as though people are going to know that disappeared. Yeah. Probably,
Speaker 1: it's easy to sit on so at that time, it's
Speaker 1: I mean, you think about it today. We know about
Speaker 1: a story for weeks or months, and then it lingers
Speaker 1: for years. At that time. You could literally sit on
Speaker 1: the spoils of your heist for a year and nobody's
Speaker 1: going to have any inclination. It's weird. It has b
Speaker 1: b embroidered into the pill. Is that Benjamins forgotten about it?
Speaker 1: Let's move on, Yeah, to the next set of theories.
Speaker 1: It's just one theory. I think that was the only
Speaker 1: one that had a subset. There's a lot of bullets.
Speaker 1: And this theory is um French abduction. Um. So this
Speaker 1: this French guy, Um, he's a noleman and his name
Speaker 1: was maybe what's wrong? Um. He was an exiled French
Speaker 1: noleman at the time. He was later exposed as a
Speaker 1: double agent UM working for Napoleon, like as in like
Speaker 1: he had been faking being exiled. So he had been
Speaker 1: like a friend of the um London and then uh
Speaker 1: it turned out just kidding Napoleon was actually his friend
Speaker 1: and he was like feeding him in that Yeah, what
Speaker 1: he told um Mrs Bathurst in eighteen ten that her
Speaker 1: husband had been um seized in the yard and spirited
Speaker 1: away from Pearlburg by French cavalry and then incarcerated in
Speaker 1: a forts fortress. Yeah and yeah, and actually a variation
Speaker 1: of this. This theory appeared in a European magazine around
Speaker 1: the eighteen ten time, so pretty contemporary to his disappearance.
Speaker 1: Um but they added a detail that the troops had
Speaker 1: just passed by a similar place where Bathurst was, and
Speaker 1: that they had been instructed to go kidnap Bathurst because
Speaker 1: apparently he was carrying Austrian court papers. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's true or not. He did have a considerable
Speaker 1: amount of unaccounted time in his travels. Local opinion was
Speaker 1: that the French secret police had been actually chasing Bathurst
Speaker 1: and that's kind of where his unaccounted for time when
Speaker 1: he was trying to shake them. So like there was
Speaker 1: there was like a town that he passed through twenty
Speaker 1: five miles southeast ish like on his trip from Berlin
Speaker 1: to Pearlberg. Yeah, that apparently like the French police had
Speaker 1: kind of set their tracker on him at that point,
Speaker 1: and that the reason it took him so long to
Speaker 1: get from Berlin to Pearlberg was that he had been
Speaker 1: like trying to shake them kind of um patterns things
Speaker 1: like that. Apparently he had been um snatched by some people,
Speaker 1: some French police sympapathizers that were hiding in a house
Speaker 1: near Pearlberg from there was a a French sympathizer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they The thing about it is is, um, you know,
Speaker 1: the French actually taking him wouldn't be totally surprising because
Speaker 1: he took it took ten days to get for Berlin
Speaker 1: to pearl Yeah. Suggests to me he was making a
Speaker 1: lot of side trips and doing some spying. Yea. And
Speaker 1: they might have been like they wanted to find out
Speaker 1: what he knew, but most most especially they wanted to
Speaker 1: keep it from getting back to England with whatever can
Speaker 1: the information that he had that that that's that's the
Speaker 1: biggest that that is the biggest thing. That makes no
Speaker 1: sense for me with this story. If you look at
Speaker 1: the Battle of Agram, which is the fourth and the
Speaker 1: fifth of July, and the accounting is always say and
Speaker 1: then he was recalled to England. Okay, so let's let's
Speaker 1: presume that that means somebody sent correspondence to him saying
Speaker 1: you need to leave, stupid, don't just stay there. Let's
Speaker 1: just pretend that he's staying because he thinks he has
Speaker 1: to do his duty. That would mean that correspondence saying
Speaker 1: the Battle of Agram has happened. Let's say it takes
Speaker 1: a month to get back to London and then another
Speaker 1: month for that correspondence to get back. So that's July August.
Speaker 1: This is now September that he's getting his correspondence. That
Speaker 1: still means that he should have been out of town
Speaker 1: much earlier than he was. It's um so I did
Speaker 1: the the Google thing here and it's five hundred miles
Speaker 1: approximately five hundred miles or eight hundred kilometers from Vienna
Speaker 1: to Pearlberg. Five Okay, so it approximate. Yes, well, actually
Speaker 1: know the one that I pulled. I actually took this
Speaker 1: based off of roads, current roads, which are actually going
Speaker 1: to be kind of reflective of paths because of topography,
Speaker 1: but not perfect. I get straighter and more. But my
Speaker 1: my point, my point here is that I did a
Speaker 1: couple of different things. I did research on how fast
Speaker 1: does a carriage travel in a day, and the average
Speaker 1: carriage could travel about twenty five miles per day. So
Speaker 1: if it's five hundred miles, that's twelve or thirteen days. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's twenty days. Sorry, she should have taken him about
Speaker 1: twenty days to get to Berlin, to get to pearl Burke,
Speaker 1: so he should have been there. If he was leaving
Speaker 1: in the beginning of September, he should have been passed
Speaker 1: there long before he ever got there. But then if
Speaker 1: you also look at contemporary accounts of people's travel times
Speaker 1: who were traveling back and forth in that area, that
Speaker 1: trip actually only took about twelve days giver take. So
Speaker 1: my giant question is W A T F. What was
Speaker 1: he doing in the area, because it seems like he
Speaker 1: waited an add amount of time to leave, and then
Speaker 1: it took and in an extremely long amount of time
Speaker 1: for him to make a commute which others at the
Speaker 1: time had been making much quicker. Let's just for a second, um,
Speaker 1: I want to extrapolate that theory out to like modern day. Right,
Speaker 1: I've driven across the country a couple of times. I've
Speaker 1: made tracks that trucker make in like half the time,
Speaker 1: So I make the people that I'm taking for the
Speaker 1: contemporaries were diplomats of the time. Okay, But I don't
Speaker 1: think that Bathurst was like I'm gonna I mean, he
Speaker 1: was wearing like really fancy clothes, and he didn't seem
Speaker 1: like the kind of guy who had about any kind
Speaker 1: of hustle in him. He was going to take his time.
Speaker 1: He wasn't gonna power through. Yeah, he But the other
Speaker 1: thing is he did wait so long that it's totally
Speaker 1: likely that there were like roadblocks or things that he
Speaker 1: had to like pause and pull off the street and
Speaker 1: hide from the armies. I agree with you. It took
Speaker 1: him way longer to leave and to get places than
Speaker 1: it should have. And he was going through the Federation
Speaker 1: of the Rhine, which is not going to be happy
Speaker 1: to see an Englishman, right, So it's not unlikely that
Speaker 1: he was taking these weird circular routes around to get places.
Speaker 1: But I agree, especially once we start looking at the
Speaker 1: fact that it took him somehow ten days to do
Speaker 1: a hundred miles from Berlin to Pearl. Well, that's why
Speaker 1: I'm thinking he made some side trips. I think I
Speaker 1: think that he thought he was the original James Bond,
Speaker 1: and he was pulling some kind of shenanic. He might
Speaker 1: have actually been James. Well he evidently not, because James
Speaker 1: Bond never gets caught and dies. James Bond gets caught
Speaker 1: and lives and gets the lady. This guy got neither
Speaker 1: his life nor the ladies. Well, you don't know that.
Speaker 1: Oh damn you, he could have disappeared into the sunset
Speaker 1: to join the circus. Where was he going to find
Speaker 1: another lady with his awesome of name? Oh wait, no,
Speaker 1: he was never. No, I totally agree with you. I
Speaker 1: actually think, despite all odds, that a French abduction is
Speaker 1: like the most likely of the theory secret police, the
Speaker 1: Napoleon secret Police where apparently like just all over the area,
Speaker 1: I mean, end coach. I don't want to say anything
Speaker 1: negative about people who feel like they have to cast
Speaker 1: their lot in with who is currently in power, but
Speaker 1: they are negatively referred to a lot as turncoats, that's
Speaker 1: the phrase. But there are a lot of people who said,
Speaker 1: you know what, I need to survive, I need to
Speaker 1: make a living, Tell me what to do, tell me
Speaker 1: who to look for. I found one. I took care
Speaker 1: of it. And those are the people who are going
Speaker 1: to do the reporting and may have done the deed,
Speaker 1: and they are they're always lumped under the umbrella of oh,
Speaker 1: well that was the secret police. Well, the yeah, and
Speaker 1: the somebody could have read it him out for a
Speaker 1: reward to yeah, I mean, yeah, what's his name? The
Speaker 1: guy that paid off the dow raising. Maybe that's where
Speaker 1: part of that money came from. That's true, and it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's also I guess not totally unlikely to
Speaker 1: me that um, somebody hit the guy over the head,
Speaker 1: stole his coin purse and then you know, called the
Speaker 1: secret police that we're hiding out at the sympathizer's house,
Speaker 1: I mean was right across from the post house, which
Speaker 1: I think was right next to the coffee house, which
Speaker 1: was right across I mean if they were like real
Speaker 1: close together, so you know, the French police could have
Speaker 1: been hiding out literally next door to where the horse
Speaker 1: carriage was being you know drawn, and you just you
Speaker 1: know slightly bribe the guy who was taking care of
Speaker 1: the horses to hit the guy over the head, dragged
Speaker 1: the staff. Is so they could have literally posed as stableman, right,
Speaker 1: or the stableman could have or just like bend the
Speaker 1: you know hitman from perpetrator, you know, hit him over
Speaker 1: the head, steal his purse, distribute coin to a couple
Speaker 1: of people who were complicit, and then you know, have
Speaker 1: the police come dragged. As I said, originally, the thing
Speaker 1: about this story is that people say, you know, he
Speaker 1: walked around the other side of the horses and disappeared.
Speaker 1: Attendant didn't know he was missing for a freaking hour
Speaker 1: like that gives so much time for so many things
Speaker 1: to happen. So for me, I happy to say it
Speaker 1: was the French police. Quite possibly it was that, or
Speaker 1: you know, the doctor, but just the doctor Aliens. But no, no,
Speaker 1: because because Napoleon was he was not in a good mood.
Speaker 1: I can see him giving orders, shoot to kill, orders
Speaker 1: essentially find if you find a British on our territory,
Speaker 1: our newly claimed territory or newly reclaimed territory, because they
Speaker 1: keep making these stupid coalitions. And again this is a
Speaker 1: historical bid. The British had not done him any failures
Speaker 1: because they were still they had control over the seas,
Speaker 1: they had the better navy, and the Brits are the
Speaker 1: French had to do everything on land. That was a
Speaker 1: huge imposition to them, so he had no love for them.
Speaker 1: So I can see him to be like, if you
Speaker 1: find uh any British, kill him, I don't care and
Speaker 1: I'll pay. I'll pay your feet, yeah bet. Or it
Speaker 1: could have been hauled him off to Magaburg prison and
Speaker 1: just interrogated the crap at him for a while and
Speaker 1: then denied it all. Yeah, you know, they're vi dropped
Speaker 1: his coat and somebody picked it up, and that's why
Speaker 1: they found it. Yeah, as far as being killed, you
Speaker 1: might not. He might have just died in prisoner disease.
Speaker 1: And because that happened a lot, a hell of a lot,
Speaker 1: they might not have tended to keep him forever. He
Speaker 1: might have just said there until the hostilities are done.
Speaker 1: He's a prisoner of war and we're gonna let him go,
Speaker 1: and then hoops, he gets Typhus dies. Yeah. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: his story. And thinking about the count of Monty Crystal,
Speaker 1: that's that's the one that is so improbable because of
Speaker 1: the fact that everybody dies in those deplorable conditions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't people are going to last that long. No,
Speaker 1: it's lucky. And you've got a strong immune system, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe you could hold out for a long time. But
Speaker 1: but three quarters of them didn't. That's why he could
Speaker 1: be that he just he died that way. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: entirely possible. Yeah. Actually, people out I had of prisons
Speaker 1: in much healthier conditions, with better diets died a lot too,
Speaker 1: So yeah, entirely possible. So so many ways he could
Speaker 1: have died because it was eighteen or nine and people
Speaker 1: died like flies in those days. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: I'm a I think French abduction is the most likely.
Speaker 1: What do you guys think? God, I don't have what
Speaker 1: hard time making up my mind. Um, he was a
Speaker 1: high value target that way, but then again for a
Speaker 1: robber or bandit, he was a high value target. This
Speaker 1: it really does. I mean, I can just is the
Speaker 1: descriptions of him being such a weary word and so nervous.
Speaker 1: I could almost see this being a situation where he
Speaker 1: did himself in and by that I mean nobody else
Speaker 1: was around. He freaked out, he dropped his jacket, he
Speaker 1: ran into the woods, He suffers hypothermia because it is
Speaker 1: November in the in that area, and he keels over
Speaker 1: in the animals hedium and somebody finds his pants later,
Speaker 1: Like is that it? No? But it's just like that
Speaker 1: might as well be brought in because there's just as
Speaker 1: many possibilities. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Napoleon's agents got him,
Speaker 1: but seems most likely, although that the possibility, because he's
Speaker 1: dressed so nicely and got all this expensive stuff, the
Speaker 1: lots of coins, and diamond. It seems like robbery murder
Speaker 1: is also, you know, highly possible. I think no matter what,
Speaker 1: it wasn't some weird disappearance. I think that. But I
Speaker 1: think it's really important that, like the record show that
Speaker 1: thinking Sideways thinks there was an hour that a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff could have happened to him, and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of unaccounted time from his time between Berlin and
Speaker 1: Pearl Burke. I think those are two really important points
Speaker 1: to bring up talk about this story that it may
Speaker 1: not actually be as fantastical and nefarious as everybody thinks. Oh.
Speaker 1: I don't think this is nearly as fantastic as made
Speaker 1: out in the three terograph posts. Yeah. That's the problem
Speaker 1: is that this is put up in so many places
Speaker 1: in such an abbreviated force. Oh I know, he stepped around,
Speaker 1: he stepped around the nose of the horses and he
Speaker 1: was gone. Yeah didn't didn't happen like that? Yeah. So
Speaker 1: if you um want to see some of our links,
Speaker 1: especially that whole amazing book by Trip Wilms, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: probably the right way. She's I like Thistle Whistle better,
Speaker 1: but um, if you want to see that or any
Speaker 1: of our other links to research. You can find that
Speaker 1: information as well as UM stream the show on our website.
Speaker 1: The website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. UM. You
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Speaker 1: You go ahead, Steve, I'm still thinking, oh, I've disappeared. Well, yeah,
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