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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by the incessant

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Speaker 1: wheezing of a grumble of pigs. Instead, it's supported by

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Speaker 1: the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon

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Speaker 1: dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more and thanks

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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know stories of

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Speaker 1: things we simply don't know the answer too. Hey guys,

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Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. The podcast Steve Interrupts,

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Speaker 1: where Steve interrupts constantly every day. I'm Devin, joined by

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Speaker 1: Steve and the interruptre Oh my god, it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a long episode. It's not actually going to be that

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Speaker 1: long of an episode, just going to if Steve keeps interrupting,

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Speaker 1: what today we're going to talk What are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: A joke? Okay, let's go Sorry, today we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about It's just because you had to Kenny bar earlier.

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Speaker 1: It couldn't help an interrupt because of that. But you

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Speaker 1: know what, I should let you go ahead and talk

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Speaker 1: about this story because this one's a fun one. Oh

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Speaker 1: it is. No, it's a very good one, so highly dramatic,

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Speaker 1: lots of death in destruction. Side words from the future,

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Speaker 1: but I really need it. Knock knock. This week we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the disappearance of Benjamin Bathurst. This

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Speaker 1: was a suggestion by Ash England. We're working through those suggestions,

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Speaker 1: still listening. I think he is. I think he emailed

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Speaker 1: us last time. Pretty sure. Okay, maybe not well asked.

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Speaker 1: When you hear this, come on, send us an emails.

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Speaker 1: You're still alive. So um. The quick overview for this

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Speaker 1: story is um that a minor British diplomat named Benjamin

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Speaker 1: Bathurst vanished almost literally into thin air while traveling under

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Speaker 1: an assumed name with intendant in eighteen o nine in Germany,

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Speaker 1: in Germany, while fleeing Austria Vienna. He's fleeing from Vienna, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is in Austria. It is part part of the

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Speaker 1: part of Okay, yeah, all right, let's start with Benjamin. Yeah, quickly. Great.

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Speaker 1: Benjamin was born on March eighteenth, seventeen eighty four, in London,

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Speaker 1: so he was British and then he was when he

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Speaker 1: disappeared pretty actually to be a diplomat. He was actually

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Speaker 1: very young to be a diplomat. He I think he

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Speaker 1: was like seventeen or eighteen when he became a diplomat. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was part of the Bathurst family. Surprise. His father

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Speaker 1: was the right Reverend Henry Bathurst and he was the

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Speaker 1: Bishop of Norwich. That's pretty cool lineage. No, you guys

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Speaker 1: are impressed. He was the third son in his family,

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Speaker 1: so we had two older brothers. And then he had

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Speaker 1: a sister. And I don't actually know. I think she

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Speaker 1: was younger. I was going to say I thought the

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Speaker 1: sister was younger, but I never actually paid attention enough. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that I've ever seen it anywhere written,

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Speaker 1: but I just know from stuff that we know from

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Speaker 1: fifty years later, she was still kind of looking for

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Speaker 1: her brother. No, that's Felida Ala Call. I think it's her.

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Speaker 1: I thought I thought that that was his wife, is it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Am I getting the two mixed up? Because okay, it's

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Speaker 1: the sister that had the awesome last name. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I got him totally backwards that he did. So, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was married to a woman named Felida Call. Sorry

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Speaker 1: for the spoiler. Gosh, jeez. And I don't think that

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Speaker 1: they had kids as far as I know. He became

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Speaker 1: a diplomat quote unquote at an early age. But it

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Speaker 1: was definitely before he was twenty one, and then he

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Speaker 1: married in eighteen oh five when he was twenty one.

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Speaker 1: He was had already been a diplomat for a couple

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Speaker 1: of years at that point, so really at a really

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Speaker 1: young age. I've heard him as described described as very

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Speaker 1: talented and really smart and just like actually qualified to

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Speaker 1: be a diplomat, not just he was a kid. I

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Speaker 1: was going to say that there's two kinds of diplomats

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Speaker 1: at this time. There is the you have inherited this

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Speaker 1: up no matter how terrible you are at it, or

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Speaker 1: you actually have a talent. And usually third sons don't

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Speaker 1: inherit diplomatic charges diplomatic posts. But he wasn't exactly. It

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Speaker 1: was more kind of like an envoy. Well that's true, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess. But the thing is about diplomats at that

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Speaker 1: time is that there if you do reading of historical stuff,

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Speaker 1: they would have the ability to solve problems. So grievances

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Speaker 1: of their monarch they would go in and they could

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Speaker 1: agree to the terms on behalf of their monarch. Now

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Speaker 1: they still had to go home and get the monarch

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Speaker 1: to buy into it. But yeah, I mean, obviously they

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Speaker 1: had to be able to do that because he didn't

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Speaker 1: have a fall right, But it's not like today, it's like,

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Speaker 1: let me call the boss and double check that he's

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Speaker 1: okay with it. They could, they had the power, So

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Speaker 1: to entrust it to a guy that young, he had

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Speaker 1: to know what he was doing and have some skill. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So in eighteen o nine Benjamin was sent to Vienna.

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Speaker 1: And as a reminder, eighteen o nine is like in

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Speaker 1: the very middle years of the Napoleonic War, and it

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Speaker 1: was when the Fifth Wars, not not Napoleonic War, Napoleonic Wars,

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Speaker 1: because he was making war everywhere. Yeah, he was talented

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Speaker 1: little guy. Um. So this was right when the Fifth

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Speaker 1: Coalition formed in that year, and this, of course meant

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, of course meant like everybody knows this, but

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Speaker 1: this meant that an English diplomat like Bathurst needed to

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Speaker 1: get out of Vienna and pretty quick. So for people

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Speaker 1: who don't know what the Fifth Coalition is, that was

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Speaker 1: between Britain and Austria. In Austria because France is trying

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Speaker 1: to take over all of Europe and they are warring everywhere,

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Speaker 1: and the Brits would not back down. England wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to back down, and they were making allies with anybody

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Speaker 1: that they had. And the name the Fifth Coalition should

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Speaker 1: lead you to recognize that there had been a first,

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Speaker 1: a second, a third, and a fourth coalition prior to

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Speaker 1: this coalition. So they were bringing on allies to stand

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Speaker 1: against Napoleon on a pretty regular basis. Now, the Fifth Coalition,

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Speaker 1: I think, what did it last? Three or four years?

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Speaker 1: Not very long? Yeah, it was very short lived, but

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Speaker 1: I know it wasn't even years. It was from April

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Speaker 1: tenth to October fourteenth, nineteen o eight. The Fifth Coalition,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, eighteen o nine, Okay, okay, because I swore

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Speaker 1: it was one that had gone on for longer. But

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Speaker 1: there were prior ones that managed for years. But so

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Speaker 1: everybody that wasn't French was standing up against the French.

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Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry the dates I just gave you, that

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Speaker 1: was the war of the Fifth Coalition. Yes, okay, that

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Speaker 1: that makes me feel bad. Sorry. Regardless of the Fifth Coalition,

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Speaker 1: they had a couple of years under their belt before

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Speaker 1: Napoleon literally squashed the whole thing. But this is and there,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those times where it's just war

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Speaker 1: upon war. Well, this was the beginning of the downhill

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Speaker 1: slide for Napoleon. Yeah, and you know, eventually, of course,

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Speaker 1: he was sent off to exile and eventually came back

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Speaker 1: and said hello, remember me, and started all over again.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that later on the Mystery of Napoleon. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about about it. There's some mystery there. So

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Speaker 1: in mid November of eighteen o nine is when Bathurst

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Speaker 1: decided he really needed to get out of there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He um that's because Austria had flicked it in, right,

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Speaker 1: it surrendered Napoleon. Correct. Yeah, Actually, um, I I know

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Speaker 1: that Steve did a lot of research on this. I

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Speaker 1: did a lot of research on this, but um, I

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Speaker 1: bet Steve's notes are a little better than nine. So

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Speaker 1: let's have like Uncle Steve's toy story time about a

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Speaker 1: little bit of the stuff that was happening around the

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Speaker 1: Napoleonic Wars in Vienna at that because I didn't well,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is this is one of those things

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Speaker 1: where I always rely on Joe to go super crazy

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Speaker 1: the military campaigns, and then I ended up falling down

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Speaker 1: the rabbit hole. Um, it really is. It's it's it's

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Speaker 1: strange because what happens is the Fifth Coalition is going on,

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Speaker 1: and Napoleon gets wind of it, and he's none too happy,

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Speaker 1: and he brings his army to Vienna. At this point,

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Speaker 1: he um he occupies Vienna. This is in May of

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Speaker 1: eighteen o nine. He occupies Vienna, and he basically he

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Speaker 1: thinks he's put down any resistance, YadA YadA, YadA, and

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Speaker 1: everything's hunky dory, and then he's got some obviously, got

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other campaigns going on. So he he

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Speaker 1: leaves Vienna and a large portion of his troop force leaves. Well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out the Fifth Coalition this is when they're

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Speaker 1: stirring up all this trouble, and they make trouble. I

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Speaker 1: guess that's the best way to put it. They make trouble.

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Speaker 1: At this point, Napoleon realizes that he has to truly

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Speaker 1: come back, and he truly has to put down what's

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Speaker 1: going on in Vienna. And I believe that it is.

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Speaker 1: It's pronounced the Battle of vagram Um okay, and that

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Speaker 1: took place between the fifth and the sixth of July

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Speaker 1: of eighteen o nine, and it's a weird battle because

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Speaker 1: it literally took two days. Napoleon shows up, he forwards

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Speaker 1: his army across the river in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 1: thinking he's got the upper hand. But this is when

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Speaker 1: um guns are really becoming prevalent and cannons, and there

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Speaker 1: are there are casualties somewhere in the neighborhood of fifty

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Speaker 1: to seventy thousand men total between each side combined, but

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Speaker 1: Napole But Napoleon ends up getting the wind. Not clearly,

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Speaker 1: but he gets the win. A bunch of the generals

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Speaker 1: that are fighting against him, the Austrian side, flee, they chase,

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Speaker 1: some of them get killed, some of them get captured.

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Speaker 1: But it's a really weird battle in the fact that

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Speaker 1: it took such a short amount of time. And even

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Speaker 1: stranger is that go figure as a dictator. Napoleon lied

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Speaker 1: about the whole thing to the French people. In other words,

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Speaker 1: he told them that he had lost, yeah, maybe two

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Speaker 1: thousand men, maybe men, but they the enemy had suffered

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Speaker 1: massive casualties. I'm not surprised, that's, you know. And how

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Speaker 1: how the French people gonna find out, Well, they're not

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Speaker 1: except that, oh, well, my husband didn't come home. Well

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Speaker 1: he was one of the two thousands, or he died

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Speaker 1: in another campaign. But that's why I said earlier, it

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Speaker 1: was the beginning of the downhill slide for him because

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Speaker 1: he wasn't getting these crazy decisive winds like he had

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Speaker 1: in his early campaign. He lost a little momentum there.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's obviously that's the problem, and you're we're

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Speaker 1: talking about with Bathurst initially is that he's got to

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Speaker 1: get out of town because because Napoleon's coming it down

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Speaker 1: and nobody likes Napoleon. Napoleon didn't like the Brits. No. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the War of the Fifth Coalition ended on October of

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Speaker 1: eighteen o nine, and that's when Austria ceded to Napoleon basically,

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Speaker 1: and there was a little bit of a scuffle until

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Speaker 1: early November nineteen I'm sorry, eighteen o nine, when finally

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Speaker 1: the um French Bavarian army really defeated Austria in the

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Speaker 1: Peninsular War. One other bit of kind of geographical history

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Speaker 1: that I think that we need to talk about this

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Speaker 1: and I'll keep this really brief for this story, is

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Speaker 1: that the north west portion of that area was known

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Speaker 1: as the Federation of the Rhine and it was composed

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Speaker 1: of like nineteen kind of city states which it all

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Speaker 1: all put their fealty towards Napoleon because they had already

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Speaker 1: lost him previously. Are you talking about the northern parts

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Speaker 1: of Austria. I'm talking about from Vienna north. There's a

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Speaker 1: just to the west of Vienna. There's a band if

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Speaker 1: you look at on the the eighteen o nine maps,

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Speaker 1: and they just put it in this weird little grouping,

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Speaker 1: but it is made up of all these individual areas

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Speaker 1: that were run by um or whatever. They were barons

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Speaker 1: and princes who were who under Napoleon went ahead and

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Speaker 1: consolidated power in these small areas, but officially they were

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Speaker 1: loyal to Napoleon. So this is something to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind because this is the area that our dear little

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Speaker 1: Mr Bathurst is going to be treading through. So um

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Speaker 1: Bathurst decides again in like early mid November, that okay,

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Speaker 1: it's time to get on out of here. And remember again,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, eighteen o nine. We're not talking

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Speaker 1: like hop on a train and hop on a well,

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Speaker 1: I mean you could have hopped on a train, but

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Speaker 1: we're not talking like hop in your own car. Because

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Speaker 1: you're a British diplomat, it's hard to get on a

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Speaker 1: train safely. Well, there weren't that many of them either, No,

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Speaker 1: definitely not unless you're a soldier, in which case maybe

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Speaker 1: there were some more. But anyway, he had a German

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Speaker 1: courier or attendant, depending on like what you believe slash

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Speaker 1: red how this person is described, I'm going to say attendant.

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Speaker 1: His name was hair Krause r Krause, mr Krausse. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They decided rightly so probably to move under assumed alias

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Speaker 1: is because um duh. So Benjamin Bathurst went by Baron

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Speaker 1: de de Coke, went by Baron to Coke, and her

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Speaker 1: Hair Krause went by Fisher. Benjamin made no contact with

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Speaker 1: the brittle British console when he was traveling. This guy's

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Speaker 1: name was Galoway mills Um when he arrived in Berlin,

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Speaker 1: because he did arrive in Berlin from Austria to Berlin, Germany.

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Speaker 1: Now he was heading north to catch a boat to

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Speaker 1: head to England, right Um. Some of the accounts that

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Speaker 1: you'll read say that he was headed to the Baltic see.

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Speaker 1: Some of the counts you'll see said, no, he was

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Speaker 1: gonna go to he was going to go south after

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Speaker 1: a while. And some of the accounts you read say like,

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Speaker 1: we don't know where he was going on just he

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Speaker 1: was just going to go overland the entire time, all

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Speaker 1: the way up to England, and he was actually originally

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Speaker 1: considering going south to the Mediterranean. In hindsight, you probably

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Speaker 1: should have done a good idea. How many times have

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Speaker 1: we said that on this show the other way? Yeah? Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: so okay. So so Benjamin hits Berlin, but he doesn't

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Speaker 1: go to see the British console there, which probably would

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Speaker 1: have been a good idea. That is very unusual. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm mean you guys know, I hope our listeners understand

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Speaker 1: how diplomacy works, but um, you would want to check

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Speaker 1: in with the consoles if you're a diplomat, especially if

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Speaker 1: you were fleeing, unless you really didn't trust them, or

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Speaker 1: maybe he just didn't have time. Well okay, so he wasn't,

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, because he did deliver two letters,

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Speaker 1: so he had time to deliver the letters, but he

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Speaker 1: didn't have time to even stop and drop a letter

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Speaker 1: to the console there and say like, hey, passing through

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Speaker 1: super endanger By. I've also read that. You know, if

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Speaker 1: he's doing if he's not going to drop by the console,

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Speaker 1: his I would presume his plan is to stay under

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Speaker 1: his to stay in cover, to not break cover. And

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00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 1: yet some of the reading that I've done made it

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Speaker 1: clear that it was pretty obvious that everybody knew that

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00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 1: he was in town. It wasn't as if it was

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Speaker 1: a secret, which is, you know, that's counter to trying

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00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,360
Speaker 1: to stay in your role of being in your cover.

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Speaker 1: If you're gonna be like, hey, it's me Ben Been,

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Speaker 1: Hey here's your letter. I'm gonna go I'm gonna be

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Speaker 1: staying at the end over here, and you know me,

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00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,720
Speaker 1: because I got this fancy pin in my head. But

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00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,240
Speaker 1: I gotta say he did not practice great trade craft.

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Speaker 1: He really didn't. He changed his name and nothing else,

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Speaker 1: and he wore very distinctive clothes and drew a distinctive carriage.

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Speaker 1: He would have been wise to perhaps adopt a better

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Speaker 1: disguise than just changing his name. I agree, and we'll

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00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,320
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that whole situation in a minute.

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Speaker 1: But so, yeah, he did stop in Berlin. He delivered

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Speaker 1: two letters to two separate gentleman's but again didn't stop

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Speaker 1: with the console. He also changed horses in Berlin and

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Speaker 1: hung out for a while. And this is the first

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Speaker 1: time you see a date enter this story, so we

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00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 1: have to make assumptions up until this point, but it

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00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 1: is known. I guess that he left Berlin on November,

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00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 1: so I gives him ten days to get to the

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00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 1: next stop, which is strange because where he disappeared is

280
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Speaker 1: only a hundred miles northwest of Berlin. Strangely with taking

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00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,040
Speaker 1: ten days to get there. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: my number is based out of Vienna, and I was like, no,

283
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,280
Speaker 1: it's five. It's five miles from Vienna, not from Berlin. Well,

284
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:11,920
Speaker 1: he might have made some other stops on the way.

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00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 1: He must have it, I mean he must have. He

286
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: had to have. And what kind of vehicle was he

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00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 1: using for? He was he was traveling by a shave

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00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,120
Speaker 1: or you know it's spelled like chase. It's a two

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00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,679
Speaker 1: horse carriage, right, it can be too, It could be

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00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,040
Speaker 1: one of course carriage. But they're real lettle. I mean

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00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,199
Speaker 1: they're the open front ones. It's not an enclosed and

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00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,400
Speaker 1: it's got like just two wheels, not four, right, Yeah,

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00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 1: sometimes they have three, but I don't I think the

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00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 1: three ones that you see are actually like driven a

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00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 1: little bit, is it? It would? It would it be

296
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,240
Speaker 1: kind of similar to like a rick Shaw, similar example,

297
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 1: a horse instead of a dude. Yeah, and a little bigger. Um.

298
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's not like luxury travel. Although in the

299
00:17:54,800 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 1: book that his sister trip Athnia Thistle. Wait the wait,

300
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 1: I love that name Trips. I'm gonna go with this

301
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 1: looks like the kind of name you would see in

302
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 1: a PG Woodhouse story or Harry Potter. Yeah, I was

303
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 1: gonna say, this is my Harry Potter name. I like, Trypthinia.

304
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: But how how are you saying it? I'm thinkin there's

305
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways? Um? Okay, So she is Um.

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00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,959
Speaker 1: She's Benjamin's sister, and she wrote a book called the

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00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,880
Speaker 1: Memoirs and Correspondence of Dr h. Bathurst, and she said

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00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,159
Speaker 1: that he was traveling with his entire suite. And I

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00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,920
Speaker 1: don't know what that means is necessarily, I think there's

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Speaker 1: like a bunch of rooms. So that sounds like a

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00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 1: little work for the There's another definition, which is like

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00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 1: and entourage. Um. And it does sound like he was

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00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,320
Speaker 1: definitely traveling with more than the one attendant. But Harry

314
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 1: Krauss was his an attendant when he was in Austrian Germany.

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00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 1: So I this this is something that I'm glad that

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00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: you did more research on the vehicle than I did.

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00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,959
Speaker 1: Because if I'm understanding this, this is a seat with

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00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 1: a set of wheels under it is not a full enclosure.

319
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 1: Would that be correct? Yeah, it's probably more like two seats.

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00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, my reason for that is the descriptions

321
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: of his disappearance. I want this to be understood. Yeah,

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00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 1: I would encourage people to look up. It's like shas

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00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 1: like a shay lounge. So it's c H A I

324
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,080
Speaker 1: S E. You can look it up and you will

325
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 1: immediately go, oh that thing you know in in my

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00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 1: uh my high class family, we call it a chase lounge. Um,

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00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 1: I am from the woods and I know who you

328
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 1: are anyway, Um, Benjamin was dressed in gray trousers on

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00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,360
Speaker 1: the day of his disappeared. Well, this was his traveling gear,

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00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 1: so it was the entire time he was basically wearing this.

331
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 1: He was dressed in gray trousers, a gray frogged short coat.

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00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 1: Frogs are okay, frogs are. This is where my degree

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00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 1: comes in hand. Two times here tis here So you

334
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 1: know when you see the like really ornate embroidery on

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00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,639
Speaker 1: either side, and then you've got the thing that's just

336
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 1: a ball that goes through loop. Okay, for everybody who's

337
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 1: not in the studio, Devin is pointing at where the

338
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: lapels of a jacket it's on your it's instead of buttons.

339
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be up here to be all

340
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 1: the way down. I that was just a convenient place

341
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,120
Speaker 1: for me to be in front of the microphone. Yeah. Um.

342
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 1: And then so it's the little ball that goes through loop.

343
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 1: It's not a button. It's all fabric or embroidery. So

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00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 1: you guys know what those are, yeah, from wearing right now? Yeah,

345
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: And a short coat is um, it's a short coat. Um,

346
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a like a fur lined capelet

347
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: that has sleeves. Is is this kind of like the

348
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: short eighties gene jacket that has currently come back into fashion,

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00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, like if you take that length but make

350
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: it a cloak with sleeves. Yes, Okay, so I was

351
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 1: right fashion. Okay, we'll just go ahead and a grating

352
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: disagree on that one. Um. Anyway, so he wore his

353
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: gray frogged shortcoat over a sable for greatcoat lined with

354
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry over which he wore. That's how I wrote it.

355
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: You're welcome over which he wore a sable for greatcoat

356
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: which was lined with a violet velvet and a matching

357
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,360
Speaker 1: sable hat. Spending wardrobe there. Yes, he also had a

358
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 1: scarf and a very valuable diamond pin that like you know,

359
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: pinned the scarf. Probably he was wearing it kind of

360
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 1: like a jibo, which is like when you you know,

361
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: like I'm sorry, I'm like trying to find it, well,

362
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: all staying in scarf and wrapped around and then you

363
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: put a pin right here. Yeah. I was just talking

364
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: about you guys know this guy, right, I mean you've

365
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: seen paintings of this guy of course, right, yea, And yeah,

366
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: obviously a wealthy guy. Yeah, I like to show it

367
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: and not really hiding it while traveling through like rural

368
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: enemy territory. Yeah, not wise. Alright, So okay, what is

369
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 1: our boy doing? Okay, So he arrives in Pearlberg, Germany

370
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: on November eighteen. Oh not, I'm sorry. Um, it was

371
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: kind of in the like mid day is my understanding

372
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,919
Speaker 1: of when he arrived, and he spent the afternoon writing

373
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: letters and then burning those letters, some letters, not all

374
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: of them, some of them, and then he went to

375
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: a local coffee house where he contacted one Captain Klitzing,

376
00:22:53,680 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: who was the commander of a squadron of like crusade

377
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: basically like friendly soldiers in that town. Um friendly to

378
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 1: his English plate and basically he said he was a

379
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: merchant and he didn't think he was safe, so could um,

380
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: could the captain please provide him with a couple of

381
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: soldiers to guard him? And the captain probably saying like crap, Yeah,

382
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: this is a really boring place. You can have a

383
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 1: couple of soldiers. He was also super agitated. He according

384
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: to the According to the accountings, Bathurst was making all

385
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 1: of the gestures of a guy who was whigging out. Yeah.

386
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: He apparently couldn't even hold a cup of coffee to

387
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: his lips without trembling. He was really freaked out. That's

388
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: what happens with me, right, So the captain says, okay, yeah,

389
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: you can have a couple of guards. We're not really

390
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: doing that much right now anyway, So here you go. Um.

391
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: So Bathurst goes back to the inn, which was called

392
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: the White Swan, that he was staying at um and

393
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 1: where his horse and carriage were stable blah blah blah um,

394
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 1: and that that's where he had been writing letters as well.

395
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: Was that in um, he goes back with his two guards. Um,

396
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: he slept fitfully on a table for a couple hours

397
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 1: in like the middle of the afternoon, which is what

398
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: happens when you have a bunch of coffee, right, Because

399
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: this plan was to travel at night to attention, right, well,

400
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: it became his plan when he originally arrived in town.

401
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: He had asked one of the locals if they could

402
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: switch out horses, which I guess is like a thing

403
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: that you could to post post for horses. And he

404
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: had said, we're gonna leave tomorrow morning. We're gonna stay

405
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: the night, We're gonna leave tomorrow morning. Can you have

406
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: the horses ready for that time? And um, the what

407
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: it's called an ulster. What the ulster said was of

408
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: course no problem. When he woke up from his fit

409
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: full sleep around seven bathroost actually said, you know what, No,

410
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: it's going to be safer for us to travel at night,

411
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: So actually, can you have those horses ready by like nine?

412
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: And the ulster said, okay, dude, it's Ostler. Correct. Oh,

413
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: I like Ulster better, but it's you're right, it's Awfler.

414
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. He's a stable hand. Yeah, stable hand and

415
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: also spelled with an h or without an age. We

416
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: just got the French pronitciation with the age of silence hand. Yeah.

417
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: So the guy who's in charge of the horses um says, yeah, okay,

418
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: we can get those horses ready for you by nine,

419
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: No problem, jerk, I got nothing else to do. So

420
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: at seven, when he woke up from his fit full sleep,

421
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: Bathurst Benjamin Benjamin Bathurst. I just realized I've been calling

422
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: him Benjamin this entire time. Now I'm switching to Bathurst. Sorry,

423
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: you get a little too familiar there, Yeah. Sorry. Mr

424
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: Bathurst's dismisses his guards. So at seven, he dismisses his

425
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: guards and then he goes outside to oversee the reloading

426
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: of his things onto the carriage, which is just like

427
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: on the back of the carriage again a very not

428
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: a very high enclosed vehicle. Yeah. So he goes out,

429
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: he steps around the horses, like onto the other side

430
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: of where the horses are. Yeah. I heard the story

431
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: as he and he and hair Krause basically headed out

432
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: to to like hop aboard and he like basically headed

433
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: around the front of the horses basically as if he

434
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: was going to climb into the driver's seat. If you're

435
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: an American on the left hand side drive the car,

436
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: and then you have heard that account, that account is inaccurate.

437
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: Not the only account that I've ever heard. That's one

438
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: of the account But that's not as far as I

439
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: can tell, that's not actually what happened. But um, we

440
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: can yeah, we can do. The fans. The other accounts

441
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: say that he left to go check out the horses.

442
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 1: So why don't we just let's just tell the fantasy

443
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: version real quick, one that you hear the most often. Yeah,

444
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: So the fantasy version is that Krauss and Bathurst go

445
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: out and then so Bathurst goes around the front of

446
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: the horses to get in the driver's seat and just

447
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: disappears into thin hair. So basically he disappears behind the

448
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: horse and then never never reappeared at or the carriage, yeah,

449
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: or the latter or whatever whatever. Yeah, the more reputable

450
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: accounts I've heard of this says that Bathurst went out

451
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: to check on the horses and to oversee the loading

452
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: of his things a little bit before Kraus. Yeah, and

453
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: Krauss was still inside. Um. And then when when Bathurst

454
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: didn't return for an hour, went outside and was like,

455
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: have you guys seen that guy? And everyone was like, no,

456
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: he just disappeared, and I remember seeing some stuff. There

457
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: was some discussion that Krauss had presumed that maybe he

458
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: had gone to the out house, or maybe he had

459
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: gone back in the building and unbeknownst to kroused, or

460
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: maybe he had gone back to see who is the

461
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: guy that assigned the soldiers to him? Uh yeah, yeah,

462
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: like maybe he had gone back to see him for

463
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: some unknown reason. So he's just like, you know what,

464
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: he's my boss, he does this stuff. I'm just gonna

465
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: hang out wait for him. It's really kind of what

466
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: why not? I mean, yeah, you had no idea that

467
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: he disappeared. Yeah, and that's it, um, I mean Bathroost attendance. Obviously,

468
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: as soon as they realized he was missing, went looking

469
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: for him, but they didn't find anything. And it was

470
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: also kind of the middle of the night. I mean,

471
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: you know, November nine pm. Um, it's not exactly like

472
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: dark dark like it is for us right now is

473
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: super dark and it's not even nine and it's yeah

474
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: it's not nine. Yeah, So that's it. That's our story.

475
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: Kind of there's a couple of a couple of details.

476
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: Uh so, a couple other little details to add here

477
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: on December six, too old women. Okay, I guess I

478
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: should back up a little bit. Um. The version that

479
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: I am choosing to believe is Bathurst was traveling with

480
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: more than one attendant, I believe, and not unusual for

481
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: which is definitely not unusual. I think it was him

482
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: and Krauss in the one courage thing that they had,

483
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: and then there attendance that we're following, maybe on foot,

484
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: maybe on horseback, but kind of at a safe distance,

485
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: so it didn't seem like it was this huge entourage

486
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: of an important person, but they were all there. And

487
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: so it is my understanding that Krauss stayed in Pearlsburg

488
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: Pearlburg Sorry to investigate this disappearance, and sent the additional

489
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: attendance on to England to deliver the news of bathurst disappearance.

490
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: But you will see often in other versions that Krauss

491
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: was the only one traveling with him and was the

492
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: attendant that went on to um the UK or to

493
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: London to report his disappearance and then returned to do

494
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: some more investigation. And I think that's the problem with

495
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,479
Speaker 1: the stories because this story is two years old and

496
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: it is it is very um exaggerated at times, and

497
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: it has been exaggerated many times over the decades. I

498
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: think that's part of why we have this differing many

499
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: variations of who was there are and who delivered the

500
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: he's missing. So I will tell you the reason that

501
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: I believe that Kraus stayed behind is that Krauss was

502
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: familiar with Bathurst's family. He had been his attendant for

503
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: a very long time. UM. I think since he had

504
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: become a diplomat, that's my understanding that he had kind

505
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: of been his main attendant. UM. So he was familiar

506
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: and friendly with the Bathurst family and UM. In Trythinia's

507
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: Trifina's version of this story, she went with her father

508
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: when they had been they had been called by a

509
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: local magistrate to receive this news. So they went to

510
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: the magistrate house in the magistrate said, an attendant came

511
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: and told me that, you know, Benjamin Bathurst is missing.

512
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: And it is my sense that had Kraus, this long

513
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: time attendant and like good family friend, been the one

514
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 1: to deliver the news, he would have been there and

515
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: she would have mentioned, oh and you know Krauss was there.

516
00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: So that's that's my reasoning behind that. Just just um,

517
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's totally possible. It's different. Like you said,

518
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: it's like two years old, so who knows anyway, So

519
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: we're going to go ahead and assume that cross stayed

520
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: and everybody else went. Um. So, on December sixt so,

521
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 1: three ish weeks later, two old women bought brought Krause

522
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: a pair of plants pants that they said belonged to Bathurst. Well,

523
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: they said they found them in the woods where they

524
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: were gathering firewood. Maybe yeah, that's true. They were they

525
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: were great trousers. But yeah, well there was there was

526
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: there was there was a letter in there. There was

527
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: a letter, but we can talk about that letter a second. Um.

528
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: They found them apparently in a stand up trees a

529
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: cops of trees, um um, just outside of town. They

530
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: contained nothing but two bullet holes and a hand scrawled

531
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: in pencil note on a scrap of paper to Benjamin

532
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: Bathurst's wife. I am I'm not convinced that this was

533
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: actually from him. Well, and there's no blood. There's no blood,

534
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: so the bullet holes are likely fake. And I think

535
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: it's likely that this letter is fake. You know, they

536
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: say it was scrawled in you know, like kind of

537
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: a really haphazard handwriting. I don't believe that this is his. Well,

538
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: and I feel like there's a bit of fanciful edition

539
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: because the letter says I don't trust so and so

540
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: when I'm going to be betrayed, and please don't marry again.

541
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about the actual contents of this note

542
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: in curies because it does feed into one of the theories.

543
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: But it is my general sense that pretty much everything,

544
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: whether these were his pants or not. They may have

545
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: actually been his pants, but that pretty much everything surrounding

546
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: his pants was totally false fied. I don't think the

547
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: note was his. I don't think the bullet holes, yeah,

548
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: they just weren't they like, well, they weren't fired or

549
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: any one was in the pants. And I, um, and

550
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: I should note that, um, it's very likely that these

551
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: pants were planted there a couple of days before they

552
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: were found, or maybe even that the old women were lying, yeah,

553
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: we're lying about the pants out there, or they didn't.

554
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't have to put the pants out there.

555
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: They could have just brought him and said we found

556
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: these in the Woods when we were looking for mushrooms

557
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: blah where old women believe us of old ladies are

558
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: always looking for mushrooms. Yeah, yeah, so uh, Bathurst's brother

559
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: and or no, I'm sorry, his wife and her brother

560
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: traveled to Germany to find out what had happened to Bathurst.

561
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: There was definitely, uh at the time, a lot of

562
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: rumors about this being a French conspiracy to get rid

563
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: of this diplomat. So they apparently, again according to the

564
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: fanciful version, had an audience with Napoleon himself. I did

565
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: not think, however, much more likely some like random proxy

566
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: for Napoleon met with them and of course just said, no,

567
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're talking about, Like, no,

568
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: who bath Bathurst? But bath Bathurst? No, I don't know

569
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: who that never heard the name? No a bath I

570
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: don't know. Is that some sort of new fangled way

571
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: to to bathe yourself? I don't understand that that whole

572
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: description right there. Now, I cannot get Napoleon from Bill

573
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: and Ted's excellent Adventure out of my head. Right, that's right,

574
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: because that is exactly how he behaved. I got to

575
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: see that movie again. It's been too wrong. He everything

576
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: I know about history. Yeah, that's everything I know. Yeah, exactly,

577
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: wasn't so crazy. So now we're on two theories. Um So,

578
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: in true Devon fashion, we're doing like there's a couple

579
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: of subheadings of theories. You mean riddled with bullet points. Yeah,

580
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: they real bullet points. Are fake, they're real bullet points.

581
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: So the first kind of subheading of theories is thief

582
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: or theft, depending on like if you do spell check

583
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: or not. It was obviously well with rob Yeah, I

584
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: mean I think so. So it turns out that Bathurst,

585
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 1: you know, just even his the way he was dressing.

586
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: Notwithstanding he may have been like pulling out his really

587
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: expensive pocket watch and like flaunting it around and kind

588
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: of flashing his really heavy coin purse around and lit

589
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: kind of poverty ridden town, yeah, place that was kind

590
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: of an a war zone or refugees and bandits, and

591
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: he's wearing this massively expensive sable coat, his diamond. I

592
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: really feel like he was a bit naive of the

593
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: world because he'd been raised to be a diplomat, he

594
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: had been raised to be around the court all the time,

595
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: to be he had no idea that people would assigned

596
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: value to this itty bitty stone on a pin that

597
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: I just used to hold my scarf. And well, I

598
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: think that I think likely he did actually know that

599
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: people would assigned value to that. But what the value

600
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: that he thought that people would assign to that was respect, right,

601
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: Because if you're a diplomat, that's how you garner respect

602
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: is you make an entrance as somebody who should be

603
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: listened to because they dress in the way that you know,

604
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 1: gardner's respect. And if you're a cut persons a meal.

605
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: But if you're in like rural war torn that's not

606
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: like hey, respect, You're like, hey, look at that idiot.

607
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: He has a lot of stuff that I would like

608
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: to have. Thank you. I could, I bet I could

609
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: him over the head and just take it. All right.

610
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: So it's not unlikely that this was the theft um.

611
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: But there's two different ways that this could have gone down.

612
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: One is it could have been a theft and like

613
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: dropping like left for dead sort of situation. Or it

614
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: could have been a theft in murderer, And let's talk

615
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 1: about both theories and the same they're a little the same.

616
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: One is that to kill in the other implies, Yeah,

617
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: it's it's the the old TV show I bunk you

618
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: over the head and take your stuff and you wake

619
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: up an hour later and go and I'm naked. Yeah exactly. Um,

620
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: So the we're going to talk about the like theft

621
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: in being dropped theory. First. This comes from This comes

622
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: from Trifina's book. Um, this little it's like a footnote

623
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: in her book actually, and will link to this book.

624
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: It's on Google Play. It's I think it's probably like

625
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: a free resource at this point. It's like almost two

626
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: years old. It's so royalty free at this point. Yeah,

627
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: I hope. So no copyrights. I don't think you have

628
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: to buy it to read it. It's all on Google

629
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: which is pretty great actually like that and pro tip,

630
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: we're going to post the book, but you can like

631
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: search within the book just search for Benjamin and then

632
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: you only get the pertinent stuff because it's no it's

633
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: like all of the correspondence of her father anyway, Apparently,

634
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty possible that he could have been abducted

635
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: and you know, taken some of the valuable stuff but

636
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,919
Speaker 1: left some other stuff and then he was just kind

637
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: of like in the middle of nowhere and didn't really

638
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: know where to go. So there's this one account from

639
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: um a quote unquote girl at the time, and I'm

640
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: pretty sure that what girl means is like a young

641
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: woman who works in a house, not like an actual child. Yeah.

642
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: But she reported that a couple of days after Bathurst disappeared, Well,

643
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, she worked in the house of a console

644
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: near the sea, which was a considerable distance quote unquote

645
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: from Pearlberg. But it was on the sea, so I

646
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: don't think it's like that much. I don't know how Yeah,

647
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: it's yeah, but not like a thousand miles or anything

648
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: like that. It's about a week's travel. Yeah, so yeah,

649
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: on foot. Um, and it was I would say, like

650
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,959
Speaker 1: four or five days later. She reported that a man

651
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: had come knocking at the door late at night on

652
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: a rainy night, and she said that she, you know,

653
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: took her little light, whether it was a candle or

654
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: like a hurricane lantern or something, um to answer the door,

655
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: and UM saw for a brief moment a man who

656
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: quote matched bathurst description. He was wearing a traveling cap

657
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: and a short fur trimmed coat. Basically she called it

658
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: a rock here um, which is like a lined and

659
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: trimmed coat which like reaches to the knee that's got

660
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: like a what's trimmed with fur with a bright lining

661
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: kind of p yeah, and uh so she answers the

662
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: door and catches a glimpse of him, and but of course,

663
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,479
Speaker 1: since it's a rainy night, the light blow is out,

664
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: so she only catches a glimpse of him creepy. Yeah.

665
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: And a guy with um an English accent asks for

666
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: the master of the house and um, she says, well,

667
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: he's not in right now. Also it's the middle of

668
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: the night, so she's probably like he's asleep, dude, like

669
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: what are you doing? But she says, he's not in

670
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: right now, but I'll tell him you called right you

671
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: were here if you'll tell me who you are. And

672
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: he says, never mind that, but um, he asked to

673
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: tell He asked her to tell her master that an

674
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: English gentleman wanted to see him at the post house tomorrow.

675
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: So her master did actually go like, I wouldn't do it,

676
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: but okay, UM went to the post house and actually

677
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: asked after the gentleman and it turned out that he

678
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: had just been there and he had just left. But

679
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: apparently an English gentleman had actually been at the post

680
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: house waiting for him um in the morning. And there's

681
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: two separate reports of boats who original need from the

682
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: area where this console was in charge of wrecked yea

683
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: being lost at se So there's the theory that Bathurst

684
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: was this like weird gentleman caller and that he had

685
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: been trying to get help from the console but had

686
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: somehow otherwise booked passage. Yeah, but it couldn't have been

687
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: him because he's wearing this long for a code. But

688
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,479
Speaker 1: the baths for cut was found back in pearl Well later,

689
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: Yeah it was, but it was found later back in Pearlsburg,

690
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: So you're right, this probably wasn't him. With the credibility

691
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: for this is that at that time in an Austrian area,

692
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: there's not a whole lot of Englishmen running around, you know.

693
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: I mean this is this is French controlled territory. But

694
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: it is French controlled territory. That is what the one

695
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: of the things the Battle of Vagram did and the

696
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,479
Speaker 1: Federation of the Rhine that his whole area is now

697
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 1: is controlled by Napoleon. It's it's it's French, so I guess,

698
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: so it's it's hostile territory. It's not as if I'm

699
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: like I'm going to take a vacation. No, you're not

700
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: gonna do that. No, but it is a time where

701
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: you probably are going to see a lot of weird

702
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,240
Speaker 1: English gentleman showing up at friendly houses saying like help

703
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Right, I mean, I

704
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: guess for me, it's it's an easy coincidence. The well,

705
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: my my response to that is a lot of those

706
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: wars were not sudden or unexpected. In other words, if

707
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: you are a tradesman traveling in an area and you

708
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: can tell that the threat is eminent, you don't go.

709
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: You know what, I'll finish my business and then I'll

710
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: kind of make my way. Now you get the hell

711
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: out of dodge. So most of those guys would have fleed.

712
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: And this is again, this is in December. The Battle

713
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: of Vagram happened in July. There is many many months later. Yeah,

714
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: so yeah, dangerously that's true. Some are very just blatantly oblivious.

715
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: But okay, so let's talk about the theory that it

716
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: was a theft and a murder, right, that like he

717
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: just got hit over the head as he was walking

718
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: past the horses and dragged somewhere else and then suddenly

719
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: like uh, you know, the guy who they you know,

720
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: gave a couple the guy who's in charge of the horses,

721
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: they gave a couple of coins to and said like, hey,

722
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: just say he disappeared by um said, oh, hey just disappeared.

723
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: I have no idea what happened. And then you know,

724
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: thus became an unsolved mystery. Uh, there's some really good

725
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: evidence for this one. On April fifte of eighteen fifty two,

726
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: during a demolition of a house in Um on our

727
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: Homburg Road, which was in pearlburg Um, which was pretty

728
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: close to the Inn the White Swan where baths had

729
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 1: been staying, there was a skeleton that was discovered under

730
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: the threshold of the stable area. The back of the

731
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: skull showed a pretty significant fracture that was obviously like

732
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: from a blow of a heavy instrument and would have

733
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: killed someone. Yeah. Um, all of the upper teeth of

734
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:23,359
Speaker 1: this skull were quote unquote perfect for the time. Well

735
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: obviously it wasn't British perfect. But the the lower jaw

736
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,479
Speaker 1: um one of the lower molars, showed signs of having

737
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: been removed um professionally so by dentist um. So that's

738
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that's like early dental records. Right,

739
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: that's an early sign of being able to say, yeah,

740
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: my brother Benjamin Bathurst had one of his molars removed

741
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: by a dentist at this time, so it's likely him.

742
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: It was a dentist, a barber who used a chisel

743
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: to knock it out of your head, right, or like

744
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: somebody got punched and it broke. Yeah, usually bowler still

745
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: get broken off from right. But I mean, you know,

746
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: like it's I'm sorry, it's hyberbally accidents happened. I mean, yeah,

747
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:11,479
Speaker 1: Trithenia was in Perlsburg for some reason when this house

748
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: was being demolished year later. I don't know if it's possible.

749
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: It's certainly possible that the mystery was so prevalent locally

750
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: that somebody said, hey, we're demolishing a house, you want

751
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: to come hang out also, but it's also possible that

752
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: she just kind of was obsessed with the disappearance of

753
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: her older brother and kind of hung out. Actually, that

754
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: she wasn't there exactly when after it was discovered somebody

755
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: actually notified her and came down and look at that's

756
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: probably the more likely. That's way more likely. Anyhow, So

757
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: she said she didn't think that skeleton was her brother's,

758
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: although it was, you know, fifty years on, so I

759
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: don't really know how she would have known that. She

760
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: said the brow wasn't nearly as high and pronounced. But

761
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: also the thing is, when you look at a skull,

762
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: it's doesn't look like the head, at which point, if

763
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: you're not trained to know that, it is extraordinarily hard

764
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: for layman to reconstruct. Yes, the muscular features of a face.

765
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: I appear to have a giant forehead because I have

766
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: no hair, when in fact I don't actually have that

767
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 1: big of a I'm not a billboard brow, right, you've

768
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: got kind of a neanders thank you, Yes you are.

769
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: I don't think appropriately to be honest with you. I like, realistically,

770
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: if I saw either of your skulls, I don't think

771
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: I'd be able to be like, no, that's not step

772
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: or Joe. No, definitely not especially fifty years later. You know.

773
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: It's one thing to say like in you know, as

774
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: soon as you've got a skull, Oh yeah, that's that school.

775
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: But it's been fifty years. That's why that kind of

776
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: reconstruction is an arch Yeah, it really is um to

777
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 1: make matters worse. This house that was being demolished. Um.

778
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: The owner of this house was a mason named I'm sorry, Joe,

779
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: can you help me with this pronunciation? Keyserve? That sounds

780
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: like an insult um? And he bought the house in

781
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty four from a man named Christian Merton's, who

782
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: in turn had inherited the house from his father, who

783
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: had purchased the house in eighteen oh three his dad

784
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: Okay Well. Actually turns out Merson Sr. Had actually been

785
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: a servant at Dundundun, White Swan in eighteen o nine,

786
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: and in spite of being a servant his entire life

787
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: and living on servant wages, he had been able to

788
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: offer dowries of U a hundred and fifty and a

789
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty pounds respectively from two of his daughters.

790
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: He didn't offer them, he settled them. In other words,

791
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: he was in debt for those amounts he gave. He

792
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: gave that amount of money promised dowries. I took the

793
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: settling part of this to mean that he had agreed

794
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: to a dowry of x amount for each of his daughters,

795
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: which equated to this two hundred and seventy pound value,

796
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: and he had he was making payments and then suddenly

797
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: was able to pay it off. That's the way I

798
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: interpreted as as a he had a debt of this

799
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: amount and suddenly interesting paid it off. Yeah, okay, that's

800
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: a good way to interpret it. Either way, he came

801
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 1: into a crap ton of money. Yes, because you have

802
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 1: to remember this is like we're talking eighteen o nine

803
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: money and I haven't bothered to do the conversion. Two

804
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy pounds is decades worth of income. Yeah,

805
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: it's a ton of money. But I wonder this, if

806
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: you're the daughter who whose dowry was pounds, how does

807
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 1: that make you feel? Well, you're probably the younger daughter.

808
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: Let's let's value there. That doesn't make it sting any less. Yeah, no,

809
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: it's accepted. So societal thing that make it sting A

810
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: first daughters are worth more because they could and I

811
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: don't know about like German law, but typically, um, if

812
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 1: you have no sons. This guy did have a son.

813
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: But if you have no sons or the sun becomes

814
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: unable to inherit the property, the first auto will inherit

815
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: the property because she's worth more. A second daughter might

816
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: inherit the property if everything really goes wrong unless the

817
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: second daughter has got other like attributes. They don't, they

818
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: don't really so much yet. But it is I mean,

819
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 1: I think it's like the worth the value is. This

820
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: is like so okay, but I think the value is

821
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: it's the first daughter is like quote unquote worth more

822
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: than the second daughter. You see that in Shakespeare. Please

823
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: don't please don't send us letters sexist. This is we

824
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 1: totally know this is. None of us are paying men

825
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 1: to take our daughters off our hands. Don't worry, don't worry.

826
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: But it is pretty extraordinary that in eighteen o nine

827
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: somebody was suddenly able to be like, you know what,

828
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 1: actually I have two seventy pounds right here. Yeah, no,

829
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: prop not at all out of the out of the question.

830
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: These guys were in a position to observe him, and

831
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: obviously they knew the area really well. They cost him

832
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: and taking the stuff. Yeah, and then an additional like

833
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: nail in the coffin of this one is that, um,

834
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: it's reported that that horse horse watcher guy the Ostler, Uh,

835
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: he apparently just like abandoned ship a couple of days

836
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: after bathrooms. Yeah, he just disappeared a couple of days

837
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: after after Bathurst disappeared. His name was august Augustine Schmidt

838
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: and uh On November nine, Bathurst's valuable for coat was

839
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: discovered hidden in an outhouse that was owned by family

840
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 1: that was named Schmidt. Can I ask you a question, sure,

841
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: how far away from the White Swan was the Schmidt property?

842
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: I've never seen it described, so I'm asking nothing was

843
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: very far from anything in this town. It was all

844
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: pretty local. Okay. But but okay, So then the other

845
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: thing to bring up, I'm going to talk about something

846
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: a second, but I also want to bring up with

847
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: the fact that all of the buildings in the area

848
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: upon bathroost disappearance were scoured by the local authorities, so

849
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: they had been in presumably as much as they wanted

850
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: to be. They had scoured the interior of said outhouse. Well,

851
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's pretty easy to like overlook

852
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: an out house, though I don't know. I don't want

853
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: to make that assumption. So that's why I'm bring But

854
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: it was also it was of that year, so it

855
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: was like two days after he disappeared, so it could

856
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: have been discovered in in said scouring. Okay, I'm actually

857
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: they would leave in the outhouse so, because the thing

858
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: about it is is even if the police choose not

859
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: to search the outhouse when they're on in search mode,

860
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: they still have to go to the bathroom they So

861
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: it seems like not the best way because I read

862
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: other accounts that was actually found in their house and

863
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: not in their outhouse. Possible again, so it seems like

864
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:04,919
Speaker 1: a better place for a sable, I would be keeping

865
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: a stable in the outhouse. My My reason for asking

866
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: the distance from the White Swan to the outhouse is

867
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: that I questioned if maybe while going out to check

868
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 1: the horses or check the shay Bathurst was sudden suddenly

869
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: seized by a very inconvenient, imprompressive need to find a

870
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: place to I don't think it's I don't think it

871
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 1: was that close. Okay, that wasn't like adjacent to the property. Okay.

872
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: That's why I was asking it, like I'm going to

873
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 1: take this off and stuffed here because I don't want

874
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: to be wearing it while I'm doing that. I don't

875
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: usually just crap in the street, okay. And I guess

876
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: like to alleviate all of these fears, um Schmidt's mother

877
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: admitted to have taken the coat and she worked at

878
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 1: worked at the White Swan. I saw there were not

879
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: very many places to work in this town. Yeah, it

880
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 1: was the White Swan or the coffee house, and that's

881
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: pretty much the posthouse across across the roads were so though,

882
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 1: a woman who was employed at the coffee house said

883
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: that after Bathurst had visited her establishment. You remember that

884
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 1: she that he visited there to talk to the captain,

885
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: that Augustine Schmidt had come in and said, hey, where'd

886
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 1: that guy go? Um? And then hastened after him and

887
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: quote unquote, she supposed taken some opportunity to destroy him,

888
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: or maybe she just wanted to, like, you know, collect

889
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: on a bill or something. Well, there were there were hours.

890
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: There were accounted for hours between when Bathurst disappeared and

891
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: when I'm sorry, when Bathurst left the coffee house and

892
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 1: when he disappeared, that he's accounted for. So it wasn't

893
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: like swiftly carried out whatever happened to Bathurst. Yeah. So

894
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: the the only thing that I want to point out

895
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: about this hole there was the skeleton found with the

896
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 1: skull with the fractures on it. Is this was one

897
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: of three or four total that we're discovered in the

898
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: town over time. So it's not as if this is

899
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: the only one. But it is an indication of the

900
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 1: caliber of this town. But and it is a nice

901
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: convenient little trail of Hey, these people actually worked there,

902
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: and one of the guys was like, here's suddenly all

903
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: this money right after Bathurst disappeared. But that that also

904
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: makes it completely possible that two years prior, some other

905
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: rich dude flouting his giant wad of cash got clubbed

906
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: in the back of the head and stuffed under the stairs.

907
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely it could have been anybody could. Yeah. And again

908
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: this whole this whole stating murder victims on your own property.

909
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: I just I still don't get it. I've not said

910
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: this before. I'm a big believer. And take him out

911
00:54:58,239 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: to the woods or dropping him in a lake or

912
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,359
Speaker 1: something like that. I mean, I guess I understand it. Yeah,

913
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 1: I guess I understand it if you're planning on living

914
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: there for really long time and it's like in your house,

915
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: like under the floorboard, which is which is what this was. Yeah,

916
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: it was under the kitchen. Yeah it was still creep

917
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's still really really creepy. But it's safer

918
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: there because you know, you're going to be able to

919
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,320
Speaker 1: control in eighteen o nine, you know, you're going to

920
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: be able to control someone like coming in and pulling

921
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: up the floorboards in your house. I don't think it's

922
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,280
Speaker 1: that creepy for the era if you think about how

923
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: how common death is and to us, like anybody dying

924
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: around us is weird. But back in that day, people

925
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: dropped like flies all the time. Oh I got a

926
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: hangouts And actually, you know the people that knows in

927
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: eighteen o nine, and they hadn't grown up on a

928
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: steady diet of horror movie, was it like they were

929
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 1: like and then read read real, that's just not normal? Yeah,

930
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: so um yeah, I mean I think it's likely that

931
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: he just kind of got hit over the head and

932
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: bobbed and then you know, op somewhere, and that a

933
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: bunch of people in the town may have been complicit,

934
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: you know together. That's a that's the amount of stuff

935
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: that he had on him would have been enough to

936
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 1: furnish a couple different families in the town a significant

937
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 1: increase in income. The only the only thing that that

938
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: makes me want to lean towards this is the dowry payments.

939
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: The diamond pin is completely untraceable because diamonds can be

940
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: pulled out of a setting, especially a diamond pin. It's

941
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: not going to be a crazy big diamond. The rest

942
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 1: of it is clothing which disintegrates over time. It is

943
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 1: not going to be capped long term as an over

944
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: multiple generations long term. Yeah, and it's not as though

945
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: like dummy McGhee over here is going to be like

946
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: two weeks later, Hey, look at this fancy coat I

947
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 1: suddenly found. Actually I've seen that on the internet. But right,

948
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: but we're much dumber than those people were because we

949
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: have a series of tubes that funnels idiocracy. Yeah. Yeah,

950
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: Actually moving the diamond and disable could have been done,

951
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 1: just not locally. It goes you know, which it turns

952
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: out is not that far away, not really, And you

953
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: know what, black markets are a beautiful thing. Also, again,

954
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: they don't have like a series of tubes, so you know,

955
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: if you do it within a couple of weeks, it's

956
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: not as though people are going to know that disappeared. Yeah. Probably,

957
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,440
Speaker 1: it's easy to sit on so at that time, it's

958
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you think about it today. We know about

959
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: a story for weeks or months, and then it lingers

960
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: for years. At that time. You could literally sit on

961
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: the spoils of your heist for a year and nobody's

962
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: going to have any inclination. It's weird. It has b

963
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: b embroidered into the pill. Is that Benjamins forgotten about it?

964
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: Let's move on, Yeah, to the next set of theories.

965
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: It's just one theory. I think that was the only

966
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: one that had a subset. There's a lot of bullets.

967
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: And this theory is um French abduction. Um. So this

968
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: this French guy, Um, he's a noleman and his name

969
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: was maybe what's wrong? Um. He was an exiled French

970
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: noleman at the time. He was later exposed as a

971
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: double agent UM working for Napoleon, like as in like

972
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: he had been faking being exiled. So he had been

973
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: like a friend of the um London and then uh

974
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: it turned out just kidding Napoleon was actually his friend

975
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: and he was like feeding him in that Yeah, what

976
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: he told um Mrs Bathurst in eighteen ten that her

977
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: husband had been um seized in the yard and spirited

978
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 1: away from Pearlburg by French cavalry and then incarcerated in

979
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: a forts fortress. Yeah and yeah, and actually a variation

980
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: of this. This theory appeared in a European magazine around

981
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: the eighteen ten time, so pretty contemporary to his disappearance.

982
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: Um but they added a detail that the troops had

983
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: just passed by a similar place where Bathurst was, and

984
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: that they had been instructed to go kidnap Bathurst because

985
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: apparently he was carrying Austrian court papers. I don't know

986
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: if that's true or not. He did have a considerable

987
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: amount of unaccounted time in his travels. Local opinion was

988
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: that the French secret police had been actually chasing Bathurst

989
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: and that's kind of where his unaccounted for time when

990
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: he was trying to shake them. So like there was

991
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: there was like a town that he passed through twenty

992
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: five miles southeast ish like on his trip from Berlin

993
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: to Pearlberg. Yeah, that apparently like the French police had

994
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: kind of set their tracker on him at that point,

995
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: and that the reason it took him so long to

996
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: get from Berlin to Pearlberg was that he had been

997
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: like trying to shake them kind of um patterns things

998
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 1: like that. Apparently he had been um snatched by some people,

999
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: some French police sympapathizers that were hiding in a house

1000
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: near Pearlberg from there was a a French sympathizer. Yeah,

1001
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: so they The thing about it is is, um, you know,

1002
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: the French actually taking him wouldn't be totally surprising because

1003
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: he took it took ten days to get for Berlin

1004
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: to pearl Yeah. Suggests to me he was making a

1005
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: lot of side trips and doing some spying. Yea. And

1006
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: they might have been like they wanted to find out

1007
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: what he knew, but most most especially they wanted to

1008
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: keep it from getting back to England with whatever can

1009
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: the information that he had that that that's that's the

1010
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: biggest that that is the biggest thing. That makes no

1011
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: sense for me with this story. If you look at

1012
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: the Battle of Agram, which is the fourth and the

1013
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: fifth of July, and the accounting is always say and

1014
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: then he was recalled to England. Okay, so let's let's

1015
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: presume that that means somebody sent correspondence to him saying

1016
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: you need to leave, stupid, don't just stay there. Let's

1017
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 1: just pretend that he's staying because he thinks he has

1018
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: to do his duty. That would mean that correspondence saying

1019
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: the Battle of Agram has happened. Let's say it takes

1020
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: a month to get back to London and then another

1021
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: month for that correspondence to get back. So that's July August.

1022
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: This is now September that he's getting his correspondence. That

1023
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: still means that he should have been out of town

1024
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: much earlier than he was. It's um so I did

1025
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: the the Google thing here and it's five hundred miles

1026
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: approximately five hundred miles or eight hundred kilometers from Vienna

1027
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 1: to Pearlberg. Five Okay, so it approximate. Yes, well, actually

1028
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: know the one that I pulled. I actually took this

1029
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 1: based off of roads, current roads, which are actually going

1030
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 1: to be kind of reflective of paths because of topography,

1031
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: but not perfect. I get straighter and more. But my

1032
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: my point, my point here is that I did a

1033
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: couple of different things. I did research on how fast

1034
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: does a carriage travel in a day, and the average

1035
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: carriage could travel about twenty five miles per day. So

1036
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: if it's five hundred miles, that's twelve or thirteen days. No, no, no,

1037
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: that's twenty days. Sorry, she should have taken him about

1038
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 1: twenty days to get to Berlin, to get to pearl Burke,

1039
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: so he should have been there. If he was leaving

1040
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,920
Speaker 1: in the beginning of September, he should have been passed

1041
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 1: there long before he ever got there. But then if

1042
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: you also look at contemporary accounts of people's travel times

1043
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: who were traveling back and forth in that area, that

1044
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: trip actually only took about twelve days giver take. So

1045
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: my giant question is W A T F. What was

1046
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: he doing in the area, because it seems like he

1047
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: waited an add amount of time to leave, and then

1048
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: it took and in an extremely long amount of time

1049
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: for him to make a commute which others at the

1050
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: time had been making much quicker. Let's just for a second, um,

1051
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: I want to extrapolate that theory out to like modern day. Right,

1052
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: I've driven across the country a couple of times. I've

1053
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: made tracks that trucker make in like half the time,

1054
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 1: So I make the people that I'm taking for the

1055
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 1: contemporaries were diplomats of the time. Okay, But I don't

1056
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 1: think that Bathurst was like I'm gonna I mean, he

1057
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 1: was wearing like really fancy clothes, and he didn't seem

1058
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 1: like the kind of guy who had about any kind

1059
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: of hustle in him. He was going to take his time.

1060
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: He wasn't gonna power through. Yeah, he But the other

1061
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 1: thing is he did wait so long that it's totally

1062
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: likely that there were like roadblocks or things that he

1063
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: had to like pause and pull off the street and

1064
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: hide from the armies. I agree with you. It took

1065
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: him way longer to leave and to get places than

1066
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: it should have. And he was going through the Federation

1067
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: of the Rhine, which is not going to be happy

1068
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: to see an Englishman, right, So it's not unlikely that

1069
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: he was taking these weird circular routes around to get places.

1070
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: But I agree, especially once we start looking at the

1071
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: fact that it took him somehow ten days to do

1072
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: a hundred miles from Berlin to Pearl. Well, that's why

1073
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm thinking he made some side trips. I think I

1074
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: think that he thought he was the original James Bond,

1075
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 1: and he was pulling some kind of shenanic. He might

1076
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: have actually been James. Well he evidently not, because James

1077
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: Bond never gets caught and dies. James Bond gets caught

1078
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: and lives and gets the lady. This guy got neither

1079
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: his life nor the ladies. Well, you don't know that.

1080
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: Oh damn you, he could have disappeared into the sunset

1081
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: to join the circus. Where was he going to find

1082
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: another lady with his awesome of name? Oh wait, no,

1083
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: he was never. No, I totally agree with you. I

1084
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: actually think, despite all odds, that a French abduction is

1085
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: like the most likely of the theory secret police, the

1086
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 1: Napoleon secret Police where apparently like just all over the area,

1087
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 1: I mean, end coach. I don't want to say anything

1088
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: negative about people who feel like they have to cast

1089
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: their lot in with who is currently in power, but

1090
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: they are negatively referred to a lot as turncoats, that's

1091
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: the phrase. But there are a lot of people who said,

1092
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: you know what, I need to survive, I need to

1093
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: make a living, Tell me what to do, tell me

1094
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: who to look for. I found one. I took care

1095
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: of it. And those are the people who are going

1096
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: to do the reporting and may have done the deed,

1097
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 1: and they are they're always lumped under the umbrella of oh,

1098
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: well that was the secret police. Well, the yeah, and

1099
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:37,920
Speaker 1: the somebody could have read it him out for a

1100
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: reward to yeah, I mean, yeah, what's his name? The

1101
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 1: guy that paid off the dow raising. Maybe that's where

1102
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 1: part of that money came from. That's true, and it's

1103
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's also I guess not totally unlikely to

1104
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: me that um, somebody hit the guy over the head,

1105
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: stole his coin purse and then you know, called the

1106
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: secret police that we're hiding out at the sympathizer's house,

1107
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 1: I mean was right across from the post house, which

1108
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: I think was right next to the coffee house, which

1109
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: was right across I mean if they were like real

1110
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: close together, so you know, the French police could have

1111
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: been hiding out literally next door to where the horse

1112
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: carriage was being you know drawn, and you just you

1113
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: know slightly bribe the guy who was taking care of

1114
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: the horses to hit the guy over the head, dragged

1115
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: the staff. Is so they could have literally posed as stableman, right,

1116
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 1: or the stableman could have or just like bend the

1117
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 1: you know hitman from perpetrator, you know, hit him over

1118
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 1: the head, steal his purse, distribute coin to a couple

1119
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: of people who were complicit, and then you know, have

1120
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: the police come dragged. As I said, originally, the thing

1121
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 1: about this story is that people say, you know, he

1122
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: walked around the other side of the horses and disappeared.

1123
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: Attendant didn't know he was missing for a freaking hour

1124
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 1: like that gives so much time for so many things

1125
01:07:56,600 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 1: to happen. So for me, I happy to say it

1126
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: was the French police. Quite possibly it was that, or

1127
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: you know, the doctor, but just the doctor Aliens. But no, no,

1128
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 1: because because Napoleon was he was not in a good mood.

1129
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:19,799
Speaker 1: I can see him giving orders, shoot to kill, orders

1130
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: essentially find if you find a British on our territory,

1131
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: our newly claimed territory or newly reclaimed territory, because they

1132
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:33,600
Speaker 1: keep making these stupid coalitions. And again this is a

1133
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:37,839
Speaker 1: historical bid. The British had not done him any failures

1134
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,839
Speaker 1: because they were still they had control over the seas,

1135
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: they had the better navy, and the Brits are the

1136
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 1: French had to do everything on land. That was a

1137
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: huge imposition to them, so he had no love for them.

1138
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: So I can see him to be like, if you

1139
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,600
Speaker 1: find uh any British, kill him, I don't care and

1140
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 1: I'll pay. I'll pay your feet, yeah bet. Or it

1141
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 1: could have been hauled him off to Magaburg prison and

1142
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 1: just interrogated the crap at him for a while and

1143
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:12,160
Speaker 1: then denied it all. Yeah, you know, they're vi dropped

1144
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: his coat and somebody picked it up, and that's why

1145
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: they found it. Yeah, as far as being killed, you

1146
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 1: might not. He might have just died in prisoner disease.

1147
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 1: And because that happened a lot, a hell of a lot,

1148
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:23,600
Speaker 1: they might not have tended to keep him forever. He

1149
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: might have just said there until the hostilities are done.

1150
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: He's a prisoner of war and we're gonna let him go,

1151
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: and then hoops, he gets Typhus dies. Yeah. Yeah, that's

1152
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: his story. And thinking about the count of Monty Crystal,

1153
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: that's that's the one that is so improbable because of

1154
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: the fact that everybody dies in those deplorable conditions. Yeah,

1155
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 1: it doesn't people are going to last that long. No,

1156
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 1: it's lucky. And you've got a strong immune system, you know,

1157
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: maybe you could hold out for a long time. But

1158
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: but three quarters of them didn't. That's why he could

1159
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: be that he just he died that way. Yeah, it's

1160
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,759
Speaker 1: entirely possible. Yeah. Actually, people out I had of prisons

1161
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,679
Speaker 1: in much healthier conditions, with better diets died a lot too,

1162
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, entirely possible. So so many ways he could

1163
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: have died because it was eighteen or nine and people

1164
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: died like flies in those days. Yeah, I mean, I

1165
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 1: I'm a I think French abduction is the most likely.

1166
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:17,680
Speaker 1: What do you guys think? God, I don't have what

1167
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:20,720
Speaker 1: hard time making up my mind. Um, he was a

1168
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: high value target that way, but then again for a

1169
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: robber or bandit, he was a high value target. This

1170
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: it really does. I mean, I can just is the

1171
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 1: descriptions of him being such a weary word and so nervous.

1172
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 1: I could almost see this being a situation where he

1173
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: did himself in and by that I mean nobody else

1174
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 1: was around. He freaked out, he dropped his jacket, he

1175
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 1: ran into the woods, He suffers hypothermia because it is

1176
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: November in the in that area, and he keels over

1177
01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 1: in the animals hedium and somebody finds his pants later,

1178
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: Like is that it? No? But it's just like that

1179
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: might as well be brought in because there's just as

1180
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: many possibilities. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Napoleon's agents got him,

1181
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,639
Speaker 1: but seems most likely, although that the possibility, because he's

1182
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 1: dressed so nicely and got all this expensive stuff, the

1183
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 1: lots of coins, and diamond. It seems like robbery murder

1184
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 1: is also, you know, highly possible. I think no matter what,

1185
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: it wasn't some weird disappearance. I think that. But I

1186
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 1: think it's really important that, like the record show that

1187
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:39,599
Speaker 1: thinking Sideways thinks there was an hour that a lot

1188
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: of stuff could have happened to him, and there's a

1189
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: lot of unaccounted time from his time between Berlin and

1190
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 1: Pearl Burke. I think those are two really important points

1191
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 1: to bring up talk about this story that it may

1192
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 1: not actually be as fantastical and nefarious as everybody thinks. Oh.

1193
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 1: I don't think this is nearly as fantastic as made

1194
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 1: out in the three terograph posts. Yeah. That's the problem

1195
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,719
Speaker 1: is that this is put up in so many places

1196
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 1: in such an abbreviated force. Oh I know, he stepped around,

1197
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: he stepped around the nose of the horses and he

1198
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 1: was gone. Yeah didn't didn't happen like that? Yeah. So

1199
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 1: if you um want to see some of our links,

1200
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 1: especially that whole amazing book by Trip Wilms, Yeah, that's

1201
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 1: probably the right way. She's I like Thistle Whistle better,

1202
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: but um, if you want to see that or any

1203
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 1: of our other links to research. You can find that

1204
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: information as well as UM stream the show on our website.

1205
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 1: The website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. UM. You

1206
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: can obviously listen to us there, I think you can

1207
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:51,640
Speaker 1: download from You can still download from the website, UM,

1208
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 1: but it's pretty likely that you are not doing that.

1209
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 1: You're probably listening to us on iTunes. If you're doing that,

1210
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 1: go ahead and give us a subscribe and rate and

1211
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: review if you haven't already. That's how other people find us.

1212
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: You can download and stream from pretty much every server UM,

1213
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,759
Speaker 1: including Google Play UM, which is again where I found

1214
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 1: that book. So like great resource, like Google. Google taken

1215
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 1: over the world and we're happy about it, which is great.

1216
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: We're happy about it now. I'm happy about it for good. Yes. UM.

1217
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: If your service allows rating and reviews, please go ahead

1218
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 1: and do that as well as subscribe. Again, that's how

1219
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 1: other people who use the same service that you use

1220
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: will find us. UM. If you don't do that, nobody

1221
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: will ever know about us, and then we'll have to

1222
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 1: stop doing it someday. UM. You can find us on

1223
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 1: social media. We've got a Facebook group and page. The

1224
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 1: group is public, the page is public. UM. You have

1225
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 1: to request to access. Yeah, so like the page, join

1226
01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:04,519
Speaker 1: the group. There's some really great, interesting discussions that happened

1227
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: there almost every day, actually more than almost every day,

1228
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 1: like every day, a bunch of times every day at UM.

1229
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: You can tweet at us at Thinking Sideways UM. Don't

1230
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 1: please don't try to start a conversation with me there though,

1231
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: because like a hundred and forty characters is not enough,

1232
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: really serious. If you have one little remark to make

1233
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:29,799
Speaker 1: us great, good for the one off comments, but nothing

1234
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: is better than the the comment followed by the response

1235
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,799
Speaker 1: of please email at but blah blah blah, please respond

1236
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 1: at blah blah blah blah. Okay, I give up. Yeah, So, um,

1237
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 1: you can tweet at us we. You can also follow us.

1238
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 1: I got a good amount of followers so far. I'm

1239
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: pretty happy with the fact that I can just tweet

1240
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 1: stupid memes all the time and people are like loving that,

1241
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,120
Speaker 1: so that's great. You can also find us on Reddit.

1242
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 1: We've got our own subreddit. We're Thinking sideways. Are Thinking

1243
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 1: Sideways is um and there's some interesting discussion that happens

1244
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: there as well. You can email us with any kind

1245
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: of feedback, suggestions, general accolades. We're Thinking Sideways podcast at

1246
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. You can support the show in a

1247
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 1: number of ways if you would like. Um, you can

1248
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 1: buy merch which is shirt, smug stickers, bla bla bla

1249
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 1: bla blah, night lights even um we've got Zazzle and

1250
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 1: red Bubble those. Um, there's links on our website for those. Um,

1251
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: you can do a one time donation on pay PayPal.

1252
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 1: You can set up a recurring donation, but as somebody

1253
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: who has a reoccurring donation on PayPal, it's not the

1254
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: best way to do it. Um. If you want to

1255
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 1: do a reoccurring donation, you can do that on Patreon.

1256
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 1: That's p A t e O and p A t

1257
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 1: r e o n dot com. Um, and it's patreon

1258
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 1: dot com slash Thinking Sideways. And you pledge a certain amount.

1259
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 1: It's like a pledge per lap. Each episode is a lap,

1260
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 1: so you pledge certain amount per episode and then you, um,

1261
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: you know, just pay at the end a month. And

1262
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 1: that's been really helpful in supporting our show. Thanks everybody. Yeah, thanks,

1263
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: all of that having been said, UM, I think I'm

1264
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,679
Speaker 1: going to go ahead and chaise on out of here.

1265
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 1: You go ahead, Steve, I'm still thinking, oh, I've disappeared. Well, yeah,

1266
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:18,559
Speaker 1: how do you