1 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: On this episode of Nuts World. President Trump's decision to 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: use B two bunker buster bombs on three key Iranian 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: nuclear facilities over the weekend brought a ceasefire of the 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: conflict between Israel and Aram. But will the cease fire 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: last and how has the conflict begun to reshape the 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: Middle East? Here to discuss Israel's reaction to the US 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: bombings and the ceasefire agreement, I'm really pleased to welcome 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: back my guest, yakovkats. He is the former editor in 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: chief of the Jerusalem Post, author of the upcoming book 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: While Israel Slept Alhamas Surprised, the most powerful military in 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: the Middle East, which is available for pre order now, 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: and he is I think one of the most insightful 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: and remarkably informed analyst on the entire region. Yakoff, welcome 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me again on NEWTS World. 15 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: It's great to be with you, mister speaker. 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: So let's begin with from an American perspective, the biggest headline, 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: which is President Trump authorizing B two bombers to strike 18 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: the Iranian nuclear facilities. What was your reaction when you 19 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: heard the news? 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: Well, I thought that when the President made that decision, 21 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: and those B two bombers flew from Missouri all the 22 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: way to the Middle East into Iran and dropped those 23 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 2: GBU fifty seven bunker busters over Fordeaux, the secret Enrichmond 24 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: facility that Iran had built into a mountain near the 25 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: city of Coombe, as well as over Natans, the main 26 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 2: enrichment uranium and Richmond facility, and then some Tomahawk missiles 27 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: from submarines that were parked off the coast of Iran. 28 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: To me, it was a historic day because what it 29 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: showed was, finally there's a president who, after so many 30 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: who have promised over the years not to allow Iran 31 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: to obtain a nuclear weapon, and had consistently and constantly 32 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: taken that red line. We won't let them in rich uranium. 33 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: And then when they enriched uranium, we said, we'll only 34 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: let them in rich uranium to low levels. And then 35 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: when it went to twenty percent, the world said, well, 36 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: not to sixty percent. And then when it went to 37 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: sixty percent, the world said, well not to ninety percent. 38 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: And finally someone understood that what was happening here and 39 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: this was what was obvious to everyone, and you know this, 40 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 2: Sir is that there is no uranium enrichment to sixty 41 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 2: percent unless it is for a nuclear bomb. And it 42 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: was time for the Uranians to be taught that they 43 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: cannot continue to recavoc in the world with their proxy 44 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 2: army and to illicitly try to obtain a nuclear weapon. 45 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: And I think that what the President did will go 46 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 2: down in history as a projection of power, but also 47 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: as an important lesson to rogue states that they can't 48 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: get away with trying to develop weapons of mass destructs. 49 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: It was fascinating to me that in the initial campaign, 50 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: and I thought there was a certain artistry to Trump 51 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: offering around sixty days to come to the table, and 52 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: on the sixty first day Israel struck. I'm presuming that 53 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: net Yahoo and Trump had some kind of understanding. I 54 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: thought the Israeli military and the Israeli intelligence service collaborated 55 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: with astonishing effectiveness. Well, weren't you a little surprised at 56 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: how thoroughly they came to dominate the region and how 57 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: decisively they were targeting specific key revolutionary guard and other 58 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: military leaders. 59 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. We had been hearing about Israeli planning 60 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: for a potential strike against Iran for about the larger 61 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: part of the last twenty five years. And we know 62 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: that in that period Israel has attacked serious nuclear reactor. 63 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: You and I have spoken about this in the past, 64 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: and Israel back in nineteen eighty one famously destroyed the 65 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: oc Rak reactor outside of Baghdad that Sadam Hussein was building. 66 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: But for Iran it was really it was a long 67 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: time of planning and of Israel considering its options and 68 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 2: really preferring diplomacy. But over the years it perfected a 69 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: strike package, really the likes of something that I don't 70 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: think we ever could have imagined. I mean, if we 71 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: look at what happened on June thirteenth, when Israel launched 72 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: its attack, it split up its targets into three different categories. 73 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: Category number one was taking out all the air defense 74 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 2: systems in Iran, basically open up the skies, take control 75 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: of Iranian airspace. I call it not aeriel superiority. Aerial 76 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: sovereignty is what Israel created over Iran by taking out 77 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: all of the missile defense systems, all the radar installations. 78 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: Basically what it allowed for. I mean, think about this. 79 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: We had twelve days of operations over fifteen hundred Israeli 80 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: Air Force sorties over Iran, not a single plane shot down. 81 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: I mean, it's remarkable, right when you think about what 82 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: Israel was up against in the run up to all 83 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: of this, so that itself is a remarkable accomplishment. The 84 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: second category was the ballistic missile stockpiles and launchers. Iran 85 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: does not have an air force. Its air force is outdated, 86 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: it's antiqued. It's based on old planes that have bought 87 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: from the United States, like phantoms back in the nineteen seventies, 88 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: before the Islamic Revolution in seventy nine. It's got some 89 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 2: Russian aircraft, but nothing that really presents a challenge to 90 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: a formidable air force like the Israeli one. So what 91 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: they had invested all of their money and scientific research 92 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: in was ballistic missiles, and they've developed sophisticated ballistic missiles. 93 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: Before this operation they had about three thousand of them 94 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: and maybe another five six hundred launchers. And by the way, 95 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: they had planned to launch hundreds of ballistic missiles at 96 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: a time. It is in total, over twelve days, they 97 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: were able to fire five hundred missiles into Israel, ninety 98 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: percent of those intercepted by Israeli missile defense systems backed 99 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 2: by the American THAD that had been deployed here already 100 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 2: during the war that erupted after October seven, and Age's 101 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 2: ships that were also docked off the coast of Israel 102 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: and the Mediterranean, the East med that also helped in 103 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: the interceptions. So you saw also the degrading and the 104 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: weakening of their missile capability. Within that category was also 105 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: this remarkable operation called Operation Narnia, where the Israeli Air Forced, 106 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: together with its intelligence services, took out in the span 107 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: of just a few minutes, fifteen of the top nuclear 108 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: scientists in Iran, the ones who were working on the 109 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 2: most sophisticated and complicated components of a nuclear weapon, as 110 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 2: well as commander of the Iranian Military, commander of the 111 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the IERGC, command of the Air 112 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 2: Defense Systems, commander of the Air Force, and a bunch 113 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 2: of slew of other top military commanders. Over twenty top 114 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: military commanders in Iran knocked off. What that does is 115 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: it disrupts. It creates chaos in the whole chain of 116 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: command and in the command and control system. So who 117 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: gives the orders? What do we do who attacks, how 118 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: do we attack? And then, of course was the third category. 119 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: Once you created aerial sovereignty, once you've disrupted their offensive 120 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: capabilities and their ability to command and control themselves, then 121 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: the Israel started to go after the nuclear sites. And 122 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: again it's focus, and this is important for people to understand, 123 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: its focus was not on removing Iran's nuclear program. There's 124 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: a reactor, for example, called Boucher, which is a nuclear 125 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: reactor that the Uranians still have. Israel to not attack 126 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: that reactor, that's a civilian energy reactor, let them have it. 127 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: Israel's focus was on the uranium enrichment program because that 128 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: has only one perpose, and that is for the purpose 129 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: of nuclear weapons. So it went after three key facilities, 130 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: the same ones that Donald Trump ordered the B twos 131 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: to bomb Natans. The main enrichment facility where thousands of 132 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: centrifuges are located in multiple chambers on multiple levels underground, 133 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: the four doaux facility, which Israel had difficulty penetrating on 134 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: its own, it was unclear how it was going to 135 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 2: do that. And the third facility is Isfahan where they 136 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: did the uranium conversion. So they took the raw uranium 137 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: turned it into the gas that was fed to the centrifuges, 138 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: got it back from the centrifuges, and eventually would have 139 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 2: turned it into the metal, which is what would make 140 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: a nuclear bomb. So those three categories and you look 141 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: at what Israel was able to do. It's a pretty 142 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: remarkable operation. 143 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: Given the Israeli air dominance. To what extent did you 144 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: actually need the US to come in with his very 145 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: heavy bombs. 146 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: Look, Israel has very impressive capabilities, but Israel's aircraft and 147 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: its bombs, its bunker busters, are not the most advanced 148 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 2: in the world. The most advanced in the world are 149 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: the B two bombers and the GBU fifty sevens, what 150 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: are also known as the MOPS. The massive ordinance penetrator. 151 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: It's about a thirteen ton bomb that has the ability 152 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: to penetrate as deep as about one hundred feet if 153 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 2: not more. The four Daux facility, which is built into 154 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: a mountain, and it's unclear exactly how deep down it is. 155 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: The Ranians don't exactly publish their blueprints online, but we 156 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: have heard from Raphael Grossi, who is the Director General 157 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: of the IEA, the UNS nuclear watchdog. He has said 158 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: that it's about half a mile underground. Other intelligence estimates 159 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: talk about it being anywhere from about you know, eighty 160 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: ninety to one hundred and fifty meters, so about let's say, 161 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: you know, two hundred yards or so underground. Whatever it is, 162 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: it's very deep into a mountain top. What we've seen 163 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: if we look at satellite images, we see that there 164 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: are access roads, two access roads that go into a mountain, 165 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: but then the facilities deeper inside the mountain. So how 166 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: to penetrate a mountain is not something that's so easy 167 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: to do. That's number one. Number two is Natans Well. 168 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: Israel's bunker busters were able to penetrate definitely the first 169 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 2: levels of the underground chambers. There was the lowest level 170 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 2: that there were some questions of whether Israeli bombs were 171 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 2: able to get in there. One thing that Israel did do, 172 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: and the IAEA even said this, was that Israel bombed 173 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: the power plant that was feeding the electrical current to 174 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: the centrifuges in Natans, and that likely caused damage to 175 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: the centrifuges themselves. Just so people understand, centrifuges these kind 176 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 2: of steel, round, circular looking machines where the uranium spins around. 177 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: They're very delicate, so any little change to their motor 178 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: or their rodder, or even the electrical current could knock 179 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: them out. But it's all better to have complete destruction. 180 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: And as the President himself has said, the B two bombers, 181 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 2: together with the Israelis, succeeded in obliterating. So after all 182 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: the damage that Israel did came the B two bombers. 183 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 2: They dropped a dozen there were seven in total, six 184 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: of them each carrying two bombs. Two GBU fifty seven 185 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: six dropped their twelve payload of bombs into the mountain 186 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: where four dose located. One of the aircraft dropped two 187 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: bombs into Natans, and then the Tomahawks were fired, also 188 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: at Natans, but also at Isfahan. Again, we don't have 189 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: images of what's happening inside, and the Ranis of course 190 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: wanted downplay it and pretend as if the damage was 191 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: not extensive. But when you look at the satellite imagery 192 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: and you see literally like someone punctured a hole in 193 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 2: a mountain, you can just imagine what's going on beneath 194 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 2: that and underground and Israeli intelligence assessment for what they're worth, 195 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: and I think they're worth something after what we've seen, 196 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 2: claimed that the destruction is extensive, that Iran's nuclear program 197 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: has been set back by a number of years. 198 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: Unlike the President, I frankly favor regime change because I 199 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: think as long as you have a theocratic dictatorship, the 200 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: chance death to America and death Israel, they're going to 201 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: come back and try to rebuild. 202 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: I totally agree with you, and I think that what 203 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 2: we have to keep in mind here is that while 204 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 2: Israel and America have destroyed infrastructure, buildings, underground facilities, they 205 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 2: have not destroyed the ambition, the desire, the motive, evation, 206 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: and the ideology to obtain a nuclear weapon. And I'll 207 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: say even more than that, if I was the supreme 208 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 2: leader now of Iran, the Ayatola Ali Kramanai, and I 209 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 2: would say to myself, what is my lesson from this 210 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: whole experience. I need nuclear weapons because nuclear weapons would 211 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 2: give me immunity. Why has no one ever attacked Pyongyang, 212 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: North Korea because they have nuclear weapons so they have immunity. 213 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 2: Why has the world not been able to enforce a 214 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: no fly zone over Ukraine in the war with Russia 215 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 2: because Russia has nuclear weapons? So if I'm Kramenai, my 216 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 2: conclusion is I actually need to move faster to get 217 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 2: the nuclear weapons. And I'll say one other thing, mister speaker, 218 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: is that if we look at the two previous models 219 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: or examples when Israel took out nuclear reactors, one of 220 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: them was an eighty one, the Osirak reactor I mentioned 221 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: that was built for Iraq by the French in two 222 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 2: thousand and seven. The Al ki Bar reactor that Pashar 223 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: al Assad was building in northeastern Syria was being built 224 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 2: for or Syria by North Korea. Once each of those 225 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: reactors was destroyed, for the Iraqis or the Syrians to rebuild, 226 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 2: they would have required the French again or the North 227 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: Koreans again. They did not have a domestic, indigenous scientific 228 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 2: or academic nuclear physicist infrastructure. They didn't have people of 229 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: their own who could do it, so they would need 230 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: to call up their friends and say, hey, can you come. 231 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: That's another level and layer of complexity and challenge Iran. 232 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: It's all local, domestic, indigenous. They have the knowledge now. Yes, 233 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 2: part of the delay is the fact that Israel handpicked 234 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: key nuclear scientists and took them out, and they have 235 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: been eliminated, and those people, let's say, were the centers 236 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: of excellence and the knowledge of certain components. That will 237 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: delay them. But knowledge also can be replaced because they 238 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: have the academic infrastructure, they have others who have some 239 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: of that knowledge, they'll be able to rebuild. So everything 240 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: can be rebuilt and everything can be replaced. So therefore, 241 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,239 Speaker 2: we really have only two ways to get the Iranians 242 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: not to rebuild. One of them is exactly what you said. 243 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 2: It's regime change. It's for the Iranian people to rise 244 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: up and topple this violent, oppressive regime. By the way 245 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: we've seen over the years, how they have tried right. 246 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: This isn't They're not doing a favor to Israel or 247 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: the United States. They want freedom because this regime is 248 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: violent and oppressive to them. Hangs people from cranes in 249 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: downtown Tehran because of a sexual preference, beats women on 250 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: the streets of Iran because they don't cover their hair 251 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: the right way with a head scarf, throws political dissonance journalists, 252 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: and the infamous ev In prison that is rolled by 253 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: the way bomb the gates of it during this operation, 254 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 2: just as a symbolic message to the Iranian people. But 255 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: hopefully the Iranian people will be able to take advantage 256 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: of this opportunity, will gain some confidence to do that. 257 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: But there's also one other all alternative, another option per 258 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: se to try to prevent this rebuilding, and that is 259 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 2: a new nuclear deal. And we're starting to see and 260 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: hear that the President has dispatched his envoy to the 261 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: Middle East, Steve Whitcoff, to try and get those talks again, 262 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: going with the Iranian foreign minister. They had held five 263 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: rounds of negotiations prior to June thirteenth Winters who launched 264 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: its attack, and a new deal which Iran comes too weaker, 265 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: could potentially get Iran to agree to a deal that 266 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 2: they won't have enrichment in Iran. And if that happens, 267 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: that they don't have enrichment in Iran, we will have 268 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: bought a longer period and have created a safer and 269 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: more stable Middle East. 270 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: Do you think there's any possibility as part of this 271 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: conversation that they can be convinced to cut off their 272 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: support for their various puppets. 273 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 2: I hope, because the people tend to and this is 274 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: an important point you're making. People tend to think about 275 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: Iran just through the prism of their nuclear program. But 276 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: the fact is that Iran is also the greatest state 277 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: sponsor of terrorism. I mean what Israel came under attack 278 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: on October seventh when the Hamas invaded this country. Of course, 279 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 2: it was a great failure by Israel's intelligence services, by 280 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 2: the military, by the government for enacting policies that were wrong, 281 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: and we now know they were wrong. But this was 282 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 2: orchestrated by Iran when his BLAT's most important proxy, the 283 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 2: one that had invested billions every year into started firing 284 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: missiles the next day, on October eighth. This was also 285 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 2: per the instructions of the Iranian patrons and the Huthis. 286 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 2: As we're recording this, mister speaker, just a few hours ago, 287 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: there was a boothy missile and UAV that was intercepted 288 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: on its way to Israel. So we're after a ceasefire 289 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 2: and its proxy in Yemen is still launching projectiles and 290 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 2: explosive drones at this country. I would hope that that 291 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: will be part of any negotiation. I would hope that 292 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 2: to be part of any talk that will happen. But 293 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 2: I also think that word today in a new Middle 294 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: East October seventh was a great failure. But that's only 295 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 2: one side of the coin. In the post October seventh reality, 296 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 2: Israel has re engineered the Middle East. Let's look at 297 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: what's happened. His Billah is beaten back. It's leader hasan astrala. 298 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 2: He was like the Bin Laden of this region, the 299 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 2: most infamous, deadliest, ruthless terrorist leader. He was killed, His 300 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 2: successor was killed. His successor's successor was killed by Israel. 301 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: They lost their long range missile capability, and everyone by 302 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 2: now knows about the famous beeper attack that the Israeli 303 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 2: Mossad launched against his Blah Camas, which unfortunately still holds 304 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 2: our hostages. But Camas has been beaten. It has no 305 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 2: real capability to launch an attack inside Israel. And even 306 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 2: during a war with Iran over twelve days, his block 307 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 2: comes out in public. He says, you know what, we're 308 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 2: not getting involved. Who would have imagined that was possible. 309 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 2: I mean, I've been writing about this stuff for twenty 310 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 2: five years. Okay, every briefing I would go to in 311 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: the Israeli military and the Israeli intelligence offices, they would 312 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: always say, look, when we attack Iran, it's a fate 313 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: complained that his blow is going to attack us too. Well, 314 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 2: that didn't happen, and not to mention by that, I 315 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 2: forgot to say, Asad's gone, his military's gone. Now you're right, 316 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: we have a new guy there. We don't know who 317 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: he is, Ahmed Shahra al Julani. Is he good? Is 318 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 2: he bad? He was a former al Kaeda jihadist. Time 319 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 2: will tell, but there's amazing opportunity to say so. Iran 320 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: is beat in badly, its proxies are weak, it's nuclear 321 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: program degraded. Hopefully this new deal would include all of 322 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 2: that together. 323 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: Don't you think the Sunni Arab states collectively we're all 324 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: delighted by this outcome. 325 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 2: Without a doubt. Publicly, we have to understand they have 326 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: public opinion, they have people on their streets. They're not 327 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 2: always going to be the most pro Israel, so they 328 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 2: have to condemn and I think Israel understands that. But 329 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: privately speaking, I mean I can tell you just anecdotally, 330 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 2: I have spoken over the last two weeks since this 331 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 2: has been going on with people from states in the 332 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 2: golf that Israel has relations with, and with people from 333 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 2: states in the Golf that Israel does not have relations 334 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: with senior people who we're sending messages of support. We're 335 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: talking about enhancing and strengthening the relations with Israel at 336 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 2: a time that we're bombing in Iran because they understand 337 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:38,360 Speaker 2: something very simple. Israel is doing work that they need 338 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 2: done because Iran is a threat to them, no less 339 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: than it is a threat to Israel. Iran tries to 340 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 2: undermine those Sunni states, the UAE, the Saudi's Bahrain Cutter, 341 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: all these other countries, Egypt and Jordan as well. Right, people, 342 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: this kind of flew under the radar. But Israel had 343 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 2: to close its airspace during the twelve days of this operation, 344 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 2: couldn't really let planes take off, couldn't let planes land, 345 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 2: mostly because it knew that if the Iranians know that 346 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: Benurian Airport, our international airport near Tel Aviv is going 347 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: to be getting planes in and out, they'll hit it 348 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 2: with missiles, and God forbid one of those missiles hits 349 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 2: a plane, right, that would be very bad. So you 350 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: had about fifty sixty thousand Israelis going through the land 351 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 2: borders with Egypt and with Jordan quietly, peacefully, no problems. 352 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: I mean, these are Arab countries. Why aren't they closing 353 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: their borders with Israel during a time like this, right, 354 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 2: they should be standing with their Iranian allies. But that's 355 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 2: the truth. The Iranians are not their allies. The Iranians 356 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 2: are the dangerous actor in this region, and they understand it. 357 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: And I think that this is why this really has 358 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: so much immense opportunity. What has happened here, what it 359 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 2: presents us in this region, and where we can go 360 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 2: from here. And this is really it's to the credit 361 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 2: of Prime Minister Nitanio for taking this courageous decision, and 362 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 2: I think greatly to the credit of the President for 363 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: deciding to join this and really send this collective message 364 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 2: to the world and especially to this region that we 365 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 2: can build up so much amazing opportunities from here. 366 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 1: I was doing Sean Hannity's radio show the other day 367 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: and he said that he had a whole number of 368 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: sources that said we had somehow managed to put non 369 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: existent aircraft on the Iranian system, which I assumed was 370 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: a cyber capability, so that they were actually looking at 371 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: airplanes that didn't exist when they couldn't see the airplanes 372 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: that did exist. And I thought all of that was 373 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: just sort of the world that we're entering. 374 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: The technology that we've seen or we've heard of being 375 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: used and employed during the last twelve days, many stories 376 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: will still be written about it. The spoofing, that's what 377 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: Sean Hannity is talking about, of presenting on a radar 378 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 2: machine something that doesn't really exist, is a capability that 379 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 2: Israel has developed over the years and is a way 380 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 2: to blind your enemy so it does not know exactly 381 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 2: what's really happening, which aircraft are really coming, and then 382 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: destroys your radar installations. But what we've seen also with 383 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: the Mosad operation on the ground, in addition to the 384 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: Israeli Air Force, which did a remarkable job, the Mossad 385 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 2: had built up a network of agents in Iran who 386 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 2: deployed drones. It had basically created a drone explosive factory 387 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 2: in Iran, and these drones were deployed on that June 388 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: thirteenth day and took out missile defense systems, took out 389 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 2: radar systems, and took out other capabilities. And then also 390 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: there were reports that the radians were spreading of white 391 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 2: pickup trucks that were traveling throughout the streets of Tehran 392 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: and were apparently dropping off explosive devices at the homes 393 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 2: of different people. Now, even whether that's true or not 394 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: about the truck, the fact that it sowed such fear 395 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: within Iran tells you everything. And I've been asked a 396 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 2: few times and I don't know the answer to this. 397 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: Were these Israeli agents? Were the Iranians or were they 398 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 2: someone else? I think what we have to assume, and 399 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 2: you know this, Sir, is that with intelligence agencies like 400 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 2: the CIA, like the MOSAD, like the really good ones, 401 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: sometimes when they operate somewhere they operate, Israeli agents go 402 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 2: and do it. American agents go and do it. Sometimes 403 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: they hire local people to do it for them. But 404 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 2: sometimes they could even have people who are doing it 405 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: for them who don't even know they're doing it for them. 406 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 2: They could actually be thinking they're doing it for someone 407 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 2: else when they're actually doing it on the behalf of Visral, 408 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 2: on behalf of the United States. 409 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: Well, I mean the entire project with Hesbo Lah where 410 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: they undercut the market price in order to get them 411 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: to buy the devices. 412 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, from a company in Taiwan who didn't even know 413 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: the person who sold it in Taiwan and established an 414 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: office in Romania, had no clue that they were even 415 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 2: working for the Mossad. It's basically the career of an 416 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 2: alternative reality, a Hollywood production that the people involved don't 417 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: even know that they are actors in this. So again, 418 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: I don't know. It could be that these were Israeli 419 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 2: agents on the ground. There's a good reason we don't know, 420 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: by the way, because these people have to be protected, 421 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 2: whether they were as Raeli or they were not. But 422 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: it's never as simple as we might think it to be. 423 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 2: And it really shows just how impressive how much was 424 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 2: invested in each of these targets and identifying, in locating. 425 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 2: I mean, I'll tell you something else, these nuclear scientists 426 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 2: or the IRGC commanders. If you looked at some of 427 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 2: those bombings on that initial day, you saw that like 428 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 2: they dropped a bomb into a window in an apartment 429 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: building on the fifth floor, right, they didn't take out 430 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 2: the whole building. They took out the room and the corner, 431 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 2: like the southwest corner. That means they had to know 432 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 2: which apartment the guy lives in, where his bedroom is 433 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 2: located in the apartment, and where his bed is probably 434 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: is it on this side of the room or that 435 00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 2: side of the room, because they got to make sure 436 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: the bomb goes into the room. And it's a level 437 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 2: of granular intelligence detail that we kind of take for granted, 438 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 2: but now that we think about it, how much has 439 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 2: to be invested. People have to work on each one 440 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: of these targets over a period of time. You have 441 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 2: to track them, you have to learn and study what 442 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: they do, where they go, who they meet with. It's 443 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 2: incredible the detail of what has been able to be 444 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 2: obtained here. 445 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: I thought the project where they planted a bomb in 446 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: the Islamic Revolutionary Guard guesthouse in the room which they 447 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 1: assumed sooner or later a leader of Hamas would be 448 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: a guest. 449 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: You smell Hania. 450 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you think through the complexities of that. At 451 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: that moment, I thought, if if I were the Iranians, 452 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: I would have a very deep sense of insecurity. 453 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 2: And it could be anywhere. And that's exactly the point. 454 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 2: And that's why I do think that the President to 455 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,479 Speaker 2: some extent is right. When I heard him speak at 456 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 2: the NATO summit when he was asked, well, what if 457 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: they rebuilt, and he said, they're not going to rebuild, 458 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: And you know, he said that with a lot of confidence, 459 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 2: and I hope he's right. But I do think is 460 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 2: that if you are the supreme leader, and despite everything 461 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: we've said before, that you're less than your conclusion is 462 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 2: you need the nuclear weapon. But on the other hand, 463 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 2: you now know that they know everything about you, that 464 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 2: they are everywhere they've being Israel in the United States, 465 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 2: and that they can get you no matter where you are. 466 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 2: Do you really want to do it? 467 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: There's a brief moment where Trump talked about making Iran 468 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: great again, But I've talked to several Iranian American billionaires 469 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: who are very interested in finding a way ultimately to 470 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: help create a dramatically more prosperous and desirable Iran. And 471 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: I do wonder. And I noticed in the last few 472 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: days that the Israelis had begun to shift towards much 473 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: more focus on the security apparatus, having done the work 474 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: they were doing on the missiles and the nuclear capability. 475 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: And I do wonder whether or not, at some point, 476 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: either in a split between the Islamic Revolutionary Guard and 477 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 1: the army or just a sheer mass effort by the 478 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 1: people at large, it may not be possible to move 479 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: beyond the current dictatorship. 480 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 2: What the Israelis did to an extent, they focused on 481 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: those initial targets that we spoke about, you know, missile defense, 482 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 2: ballistic missiles, and of course nuclear, But after those main 483 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: targets were neutralized, they began to also focus on some 484 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: of the regime targets, military targets and others. And the 485 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: idea here was to weaken some of those regime I 486 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 2: would say arrays and capabilities, whether it's the IERGC or 487 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 2: the besiege which is kind of their more local domestic 488 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 2: force that literally beats up people on the streets. That 489 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 2: was aimed at trying to give the Uranian people some 490 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: hope that they can actually go out to the streets 491 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 2: and try to bring down this regime. One of the 492 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: important points that Israel has made, I think consistently throughout 493 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 2: this operation was that our issue is not with the 494 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 2: people of Iran. The people of Iran are friends. The 495 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 2: people of Iran, we share a rich mutual history, the 496 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: Persian culture and the history of the Persian peoples. They're 497 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: an ancient people really, of amazing capabilities and history. But 498 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: the problem is they've been taken hostage by this radical 499 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 2: Islamic entity and these iatolas, the mulahs. I mean, you know, 500 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: you remember, mister speaker, how before the revolution of seventy nine, 501 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 2: Israel had an embassy into Tehran, right, I mean we 502 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: were all doing business together. We had good friends there, 503 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: they had good friends here. I mean that all changed 504 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: when Homani came back from Paris and really took that 505 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 2: country in a whole different direction. And I think that 506 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: that's what gives a lot of people hope, is that 507 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: the Uraanian people still for the most part, want to 508 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 2: come back to the fold. They want to be part 509 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 2: of the free worl old, and hopefully they can break 510 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 2: free of this reign of terror and these tyrants who 511 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: have been ruling them. 512 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: Well, that's our hope. Let me ask you one last topic, 513 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: which is very different, and I think maybe one of 514 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: the hardest problems Israel faces. How do you ultimately get 515 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: to stability in Gaza? 516 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 2: It is still connected because the hope right now in 517 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 2: Israel is that by weakening Iran, and Iran was the supplier, 518 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,239 Speaker 2: the funder, the provider to Ramas. By weakening Iran, you 519 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 2: further isolate Ramas, and now Hamas is even more isolated, 520 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: and therefore the hope is that we can reach a 521 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: deal that will see the fifty hostages return. Twenty of 522 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 2: them are believed to still be alive. The rest are 523 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 2: unfortunately tragically no longer among the living. But Israel still 524 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 2: fights to get back even the bodies of these hostages 525 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: who have been held by Hamas for nearly two years. 526 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 2: But really, then the question becomes, Okay, even if you've 527 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 2: done that, how do you prevent Ramas from rebuilding? I mean, 528 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: get similar questions and dilemmas to what we were just 529 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 2: talking about. And here what's really needed is the creation 530 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 2: of a new governing entity in Gaza. I think everyone 531 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 2: understands that. The question is though, who will be that 532 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: governing entity be? And this is where it gets really 533 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 2: complicated because the current coalition in Israel, led by Nasenia, 534 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 2: who in including some of the more right wing far 535 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 2: right parties in Israel, refuse to even talk about the 536 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 2: prospect or possibility that the Palestinian authority led by Mahmudubas 537 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 2: in Ramala will have any role in the day after 538 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: in Gaza. On the other hand, the Amordis and the 539 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 2: Egyptians and the Saudis say if they're instant, the Palestinians, 540 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 2: We're not going to come and help, so you're kind 541 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 2: of stuck. And that's the bit of the conundrum at 542 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 2: the moment. I think that Nizzenia, who understands that there 543 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 2: really is not an alternative, and I think that hopefully 544 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 2: he will show the same courage that he showed when 545 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 2: launching this attack on June thirteenth against Iran. He has 546 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: the opportunity now to show that same courage and end 547 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: this war in Gaza and not only give Israelis the 548 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: opportunity to heal, because it's difficult for this country to 549 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 2: move on. You know, we're talking on a day that 550 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 2: seven soldiers were announced killed in Gaza. Terrible tragedy, young 551 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 2: Israeli soldiers, but the Palestinians have also suffered a great tragedy. 552 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 2: We can't ignore that, right, you know, I think it's 553 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 2: Kamas's fault, but the people of Gaza suffer and they 554 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: deserve a better future as well. So Gaza has to 555 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 2: be rehabilitated and rebuilt, and for that we need a 556 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: new government and I don't want to see Israel do it, 557 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: and I don't think Israel wants to do it, right, 558 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 2: We don't want to have control of that place. It's 559 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: a place that's not friendly to us, but we need 560 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: to ensure that it is a government though, that is 561 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: going to not just rebuild and not just govern, but 562 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 2: also deradicalize. That has to be a piece of this. 563 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 2: And if we can really lead to a deradicalization, that 564 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 2: would change textbooks, would change, newspapers, would change culture, would 565 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 2: change the way they talk about us. And that's going 566 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 2: to be tough, but it can be done. The opportunities 567 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 2: have no limits, because that's how you achieve real peace. 568 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: We got to deradicalize. So there's a lot of moving 569 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 2: parts here. But I think that we need to come 570 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 2: aus to agree to ceasefire. We need to come as 571 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: to give us back the hostages, and we need our 572 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: government in Jerusalem to accept the reality that whether we 573 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 2: like it or not, there's going to have to be 574 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 2: some Palestinian guy who's involved in the day after in Gaza. 575 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: Last question, how likely do you think it is that 576 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: the ceasefire will hold or is this just a temporary pause. 577 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: I think it will hold as long as Iran does 578 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 2: not try and rebuild, or we don't get intelligence that 579 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: shows that they're working on a bomb somewhere in the basement. 580 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 2: Israel has achieved its goals of this operation, and that 581 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 2: was to set back Iran's nuclear pro for a number 582 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: of years, and that seems to have been achieved. But 583 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 2: the Iranians now the ball's in their court. And I 584 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 2: think that that's why it's so important that the president 585 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 2: doesn't lose focus, because sometimes that can't happen. You finish 586 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 2: one thing and you jump ready to the next thing. 587 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: I don't blame him, He's got a lot of different 588 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 2: balls up in the air all at once. But we're 589 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 2: not done yet with iron We need that follow up, 590 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 2: you know. And you know this, sir. You know, military 591 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 2: means really important. They can help get the job done, 592 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 2: but they're not alone going to get the job done. 593 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 2: You need to have that political process that does follow up. 594 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,720 Speaker 2: And this is the opportunity. Now they're weak, they're hurt, 595 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 2: they're bleeding. Get them back to the table, squeeze them 596 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 2: for a better deal, give them some carrots along the way. 597 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: But you got that big stick you can still hold 598 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 2: and say to them, listen, if you guys don't play ball, 599 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: what you saw at those seven B two bombers and 600 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: those twelve or fourteen GBU fifty seven massive ordinance penetrators 601 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 2: is just the beginning in. 602 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: The ability to crush the regime. We have massive capabilities 603 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: if we have to. This is I think potentially the 604 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: turning point which could potentially lead to a dramatically better 605 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: Middle East. I think we still have to roll up 606 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: our sleeves and recognize it. There's a lot of work 607 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: between here and getting an Iran which is sustainable as 608 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: a neighbor and not slipping back into the theocratic dictatorship's 609 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: desires to destroy Israel the United States. But I want 610 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: you to know Yokov, that I want to thank you 611 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: for joining and providing an update, and I will continue 612 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: to read virtually everything you write. And I want to 613 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: remind our listeners that your new book, While Israel Slept 614 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: how Hamas Surprise, The Most Powerful Military in the Least 615 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: is available for pre order from Amazon right now and 616 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: will be out this September. And once it comes out, 617 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: I'd love it if you could come back and discuss 618 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 1: both the book and wherever we are at that point 619 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: in the process. But thank you. You are a remarkably 620 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: helpful student of what's going on in the Middle East. 621 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 2: Thank you, sir. It's always a pleasure and honor to 622 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 2: be with you. 623 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Yakov Katz. You can learn 624 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: more about the Israel Iran conflict on our show page 625 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,439 Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gagers three 626 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsei Sloan. Our 627 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was 628 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at 629 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: Ganglishtree sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope you'll 630 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five 631 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: stars and give us a review so others can learn 632 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld consigner 633 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 1: for my three free weekly columns at Ginglestree sixty dot 634 00:36:45,840 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.