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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listening on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: We have a lot of questions now that a fourth

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Speaker 2: indictment is drops approved by a grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia,

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Speaker 2: where Fani Willis is the district attorney.

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Speaker 3: A Fulton County grand jury returned a true bill of

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Speaker 3: indictment charging nineteen individuals with violations of Georgia law arising

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Speaker 3: from a criminal conspiracy to overturn the results of the

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty presidential election in this state. The indictment includes

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Speaker 3: forty one felony counts and his ninety seven pages long.

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Speaker 3: Please remember that everyone charged in this bill of indictment

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Speaker 3: is presumed innocent.

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Speaker 2: And when we say everyone, we're talking about some familiar

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Speaker 2: names here code defendants, including Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, the

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Speaker 2: former White House Chief of Staff, former Senior Justice Department

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Speaker 2: official Jeffrey Clark. Even Sidney Powell shows up in there.

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Speaker 2: Remember they were going to unleash the Kraken. Maybe Finie

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Speaker 2: Willis's turn. Well, the case that's centered around the Ricode

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Speaker 2: charge we talked about a racketeering case.

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Speaker 3: Every individual charge in the indictment is charged with one

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Speaker 3: count of violating Georgia's Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act

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Speaker 3: through participation in a criminal enterprise in Fulton County, Georgia

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Speaker 3: and elsewhere to accomplish the illegal goal of allowing Donald J.

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Speaker 3: Trump to seize the presidential term of office beginning on

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Speaker 3: January twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: All right, so that's from last night. This was late,

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Speaker 2: by the way. It's like, you know, we're getting up

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Speaker 2: around midnight here with reporters in the courtroom for hours

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Speaker 2: waiting for something to happen. I guess it's a good

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Speaker 2: thing they hung out now. Willis is asking that all

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Speaker 2: defendants surrender by August twenty fifth, that would be next Friday.

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Speaker 2: Nothing says they can't come sooner. Also says she intends

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Speaker 2: to try them all together, nineteen defendants together, Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: the eighteen co defendants, and she's asking a judge to

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Speaker 2: hold the trial in the next six months. Unclear if

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Speaker 2: any of this will take place with the legal team

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Speaker 2: representing the former president that intends to delay, delay, delay,

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm glad to say. We're joined by Ty Cobb,

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Speaker 2: the former White House Council in the Trump administration. He

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Speaker 2: was there from July seventeen to May eighteen, just to

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Speaker 2: give you a sense. This was back in the Russia, Russia,

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Speaker 2: Russia period of time. Also, former Department of Justice official

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Speaker 2: now practicing attorney, Tykob, Welcome back to Bloomberg. It's great

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Speaker 2: to have you. Can I just start by asking, do

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Speaker 2: you think Donald Trump will actually show up at the

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Speaker 2: court next week?

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Speaker 4: At some point he'll have to. They may negotiate a time,

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Speaker 4: but at some point he'll have to appear and be arraigned,

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Speaker 4: as he has been in the other cases.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about the indictment here, much more broad,

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Speaker 2: more sweeping, much larger scale than what we saw come

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Speaker 2: from the Special Council here in Washington, even though they're

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Speaker 2: technically really about the same thing. Attempts to overturn the

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Speaker 2: results of the twenty election. How strong is this case?

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Speaker 4: You know, it's hard to tell. I mean, it's not

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Speaker 4: immediately clear from the indictment how strong the case is.

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Speaker 4: Although the indictment is extensively detailed, looks professionally done. Certainly,

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Speaker 4: the counts that track the counts in the federal case

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Speaker 4: are presented in very similar fashion, you know, with great

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Speaker 4: detail and the loss set out matter of factly, some

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Speaker 4: of the Georgia claims not quite as crystal clear what

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Speaker 4: the evidence is. But but yes, no, I think this

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Speaker 4: is This reflects a great deal of work and a

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Speaker 4: lot of effort by Ms. Willisoner's staff.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you can argue this, you know, two different ways.

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Speaker 2: The Special Council chosen narrow something. Oh, that's right, that's why,

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Speaker 2: that's why we're here. The Special Council chose a narrower path,

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Speaker 2: maybe something that he saws more of a sure thing.

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Speaker 2: In this indictment. It includes one hundred and sixty one

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Speaker 2: specific acts in furtherance of the conspiracy. It carries charges

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Speaker 2: the racket hearing charges with minimum sentences. Is funny? Will

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Speaker 2: this biting off more than she can shoot?

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Speaker 4: I think that remains to be seen. You know, she

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Speaker 4: has tried large cases before, indicted other large cases that

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Speaker 4: are still ongoing. You know, she has a track record

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Speaker 4: as a prosecutor of having handled some difficult and important cases.

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Speaker 4: So you know, I think it remains to be seen.

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Speaker 4: I do think there's some difficulty tying tying all these

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Speaker 4: charges together. I think the one thing I can say

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Speaker 4: for sure is this trial will not start in six months.

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Speaker 4: There are there will be motions di sever there will

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Speaker 4: be motions. There may even be some removal motions on

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Speaker 4: behalf of Trump and Meadows. There will be issues between

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Speaker 4: the defendants. I think think that there will be, you know,

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Speaker 4: a number of challenges to this case. Keep in mind

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Speaker 4: that you know a prosecutorial misconduct complaint was recently withdrawn.

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Speaker 4: I would expect to see that raised again. I think

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Speaker 4: the three I think the three false electors who were

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Speaker 4: ultimately indicted out of what I call to be twelve.

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Speaker 4: But I could be off that. I could be off

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Speaker 4: on that.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: I think they will have some selected prosecution claims that

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Speaker 4: are likely to be heard as the why them and

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Speaker 4: not the others. So this is not going to be

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Speaker 4: an easy case to get to trial. And there's no

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Speaker 4: way Jack Smith, who has a lot of power in

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Speaker 4: this in this arena, to dictate to the order of cases.

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Speaker 4: I don't think there's any way Jack Smith would permit

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Speaker 4: ms Willis to go to trial before he does given

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Speaker 4: the overlap and witnesses and the damage her use of

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Speaker 4: those witnesses could do to his case.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a great point, And I wonder your thought

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Speaker 2: on these eighteen code defendants. They're unnamed co conspirators, fewer

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Speaker 2: of them in the Special Council's case. Is she naming

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Speaker 2: uh these folks and in fact charging them in the

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Speaker 2: hopes that one or more will flip?

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Speaker 4: Hard to say likely that that one or more of

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Speaker 4: these will flip, I'd be I'd be surprised to see uh,

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Speaker 4: all all nineteen defendants in the courtroom together at any time.

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Speaker 4: But uh, certainly it's likely that some may flip. But

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Speaker 4: at the same time, I think in terms of, you know,

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Speaker 4: the significant defendance, you know, the likelihoods they will they

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Speaker 4: will go to trial if the case actually gets to trial.

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Speaker 4: Keep in mind, so she's been working on this case

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Speaker 4: for two and a half years, we finally got into

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Speaker 4: an indictment. Getting from there to trial in six months,

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Speaker 4: particularly given the amount of discovery that she has and

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Speaker 4: the number of motions that she's going to face, I

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Speaker 4: just don't see that happening. I also think the scheduling

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Speaker 4: issue is given given the Jack Smith effort to get

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Speaker 4: his trial in January, which is as yet unresolved in

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Speaker 4: the mar A Lago trial currently set for March. I

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Speaker 4: just don't believe, you know, they're going to fit in

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Speaker 4: this trial, and this trial will take a long time,

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Speaker 4: at least at least as charged, if they intend to

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Speaker 4: prove everything that they have they have targeted.

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Speaker 2: I'm struck by how any uncertainties there are around this

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Speaker 2: because you hear analysis and they say, well, in this case,

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Speaker 2: it's it's unpardonable because it's it's a state situation here.

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Speaker 2: You can't have a federal pardon and the governor can't

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Speaker 2: do that in Georgia with a racketeering case or something

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Speaker 2: like that. But what if they moved it to federal court?

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Speaker 1: Tied?

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Speaker 2: Does that happen?

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Speaker 3: Well, so.

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Speaker 4: There may be an effort to move it to federal court,

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Speaker 4: but I'm not sure that it fits neatly under the

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Speaker 4: removal statue involved twenty eight USC. Fourteen forty two A.

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Speaker 4: It's it's it's hard to see importuning the governor of

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Speaker 4: Georgia to come up with eleven seven hundred and eighty

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Speaker 4: votes as under color of law, as is required in

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Speaker 4: the statute. So I do think the odds are that

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Speaker 4: it stays in the state court. But I also think

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Speaker 4: there's a real possibility it never gets tried, or it

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Speaker 4: doesn't get tried for five years. The reason for so,

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Speaker 4: the reason for that being it unless it gets tried. So,

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Speaker 4: I mean, this is there's a lot of what ifs.

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Speaker 4: But if Trump won the White House. You know, the

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Speaker 4: Justice Department policy at present, which is only a policy,

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Speaker 4: but it's been closely adhered to, is that the president

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Speaker 4: cannot be prosecuted by the States or anybody else during

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Speaker 4: the term of his presidency. Uh so Trump, Trump, having

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Speaker 4: the opportunity to serve four years, could delay this trial

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Speaker 4: for for the length of the presidency, if indeed he won,

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Speaker 4: if he loses. You know, all bets are often you know,

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Speaker 4: this case, this case moves forward.

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Speaker 2: That's really something. He's not a young man, Ty Cobb,

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Speaker 2: you know that is it possible Donald Trump can delay

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Speaker 2: this for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 4: I don't think he would. I don't think he would

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Speaker 4: look at it quite that way.

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Speaker 2: Probably not, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, in the sense of I hope I die before

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Speaker 4: I have to trial and Georgia. Yeah, but I do

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Speaker 4: think this could be delayed substantially and certainly I think

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Speaker 4: this case, in particular, of of the cases that matter,

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Speaker 4: which are the two federal cases, and this one, the

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Speaker 4: New York case, is more of a political stunting unlikely

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Speaker 4: to hold up, but other cases that matter, I think

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Speaker 4: this is the least likely to get to trial before

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Speaker 4: the election.

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Speaker 2: Do you believe Donald Trump knew he lost?

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Speaker 4: Do I personally believe that? Yes, I personally believe that.

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Speaker 4: But but more importantly, it's the evidence that will dictate that.

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Speaker 4: And you know, uh, there's a subset there are There

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Speaker 4: is going to be direct evidence that he knew he lost,

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Speaker 4: and people will testify that, you know, he said things

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Speaker 4: like can you believe I lost the Joe Biden? Or uh,

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Speaker 4: you know, we'll leave that for the next guy, that

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Speaker 4: kind of thing. I think there'll be substantially more direct evidence,

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Speaker 4: you know, perhaps from Meadows and others on that issue.

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Speaker 4: But you know, under under federal law and most most states,

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Speaker 4: the wolful blindness standard is an adequate substitute for actual knowledge.

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Speaker 4: And if the Attorney General and you know, half the

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Speaker 4: Cabinet and uh fourteen general counsels from you know a

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Speaker 4: variety of agencies, and your white House counsel, Uh are

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Speaker 4: telling you that you lost. It's very difficult for you know,

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Speaker 4: an average you're to say, you know, how could he

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Speaker 4: not have known?

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Speaker 2: You were? Of course White House counsel during the whole

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Speaker 2: Russia probe. You've been around Donald Trump, Uh when it

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Speaker 2: comes to allegations of electoral misconduct for some time or

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Speaker 2: you were then. With everything that we've learned here, Ty Cobb,

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Speaker 2: with everything we know now, is there a part of

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Speaker 2: you that regrets representing Donald Trump?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 4: So my job I was not his personal lawyer. My

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Speaker 4: job was to represent the White House as an institution

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Speaker 4: in connection with the Russia investigation and manage the White

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Speaker 4: House response to to Muller. Bob Muller a longtime friend

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Speaker 4: of mine, and you know, in my situation, we chose

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Speaker 4: to be cooperative in order to maintain executive privilege and

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Speaker 4: avoid many of the pitfalls of going to court forfeiting

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Speaker 4: for village making takes public that otherwise wouldn't need to

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Speaker 4: be public. And that was, of course, you know, we

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Speaker 4: chose because it was it was very clear that that

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Speaker 4: the Russia effort was, unlike unlike the matters recently charged,

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Speaker 4: was a pure hoax.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what. I appreciate your coming to

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Speaker 2: talk to us here. Ty Cobb. You've you've been a

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Speaker 2: good voice to help us understand the charges here on

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Speaker 2: what is now a fourth We talked after the third,

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Speaker 2: and we'd love to stay in touch with former White

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Speaker 2: House counsel during the Trump administration. Ty Cobb coming up.

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Speaker 2: We assemble the panel and let them sink their teeth

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Speaker 2: into this. Georgia Peach, Rick Davis, and Jeanie Shanzano coming

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Speaker 2: up next on indictment number four, what it means for

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Speaker 2: the primary and the general. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one on Bloomberg Radio, the tune

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Speaker 1: in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 6: And the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: What a night it was for Robert mcbernie, the Fulton

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Speaker 2: County judge who found himself on duty until the wee

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Speaker 2: hours on what would, of course, be the day that

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Speaker 2: the Trump indictment dropped. There in Georgia, with scores of

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Speaker 2: reporters lining the halls, in the courthouse, in the courtroom,

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Speaker 2: cameras everywhere. It finally happened, and here everybody's watching along

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Speaker 2: a pretty remarkable moment as he went through the page,

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Speaker 2: took his time, Sheriff delivers. You know, he's got the

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Speaker 2: ninety something pages and flipping through the whole thing, and

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Speaker 2: it was his job to certify the indictments so it

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Speaker 2: could then be moved forward as he finished his work.

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Speaker 6: All right, thanks cheery, good luck the rest of the evening, sire,

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Speaker 6: your bet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anybody else, everybody's saying, is it all you hoped

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Speaker 2: it would be?

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Speaker 1: I didn't get a good look, so you all need

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Speaker 1: to leave.

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Speaker 6: I mean that politely and nicely.

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Speaker 7: You've had a long day, but these folks can't go until.

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Speaker 6: You all go.

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Speaker 2: The old blues brothers. You don't have to go home,

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Speaker 2: but you can't stay here. Let's assemble the panel. Rick

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Speaker 2: Davis and Genie Shanzino join us Bloomberg Politics contributors with

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Speaker 2: a lot to talk about here following our conversation with

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Speaker 2: ty Cobb. Rick, your thoughts on this fourth indictment number four?

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Speaker 2: It's just remarkable when you actually say it out loud

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Speaker 2: here and ty Cobb's point that it may well be

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Speaker 2: the last one to be tried.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, this is really a stunner indictment, sprawling number of defendants,

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Speaker 7: incredible number of acts of conspiracy.

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Speaker 6: Uh and and and what.

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Speaker 7: You had ty Cobb talking about the complex nature of

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Speaker 7: this really put it in fantastic terms to understand the

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Speaker 7: immensity of this reco charge and and and he makes

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Speaker 7: a very compelling case that if this doesn't get done

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Speaker 7: between now an election day, and you wonder how it

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Speaker 7: can with all these defendants getting tried at the same time.

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Speaker 6: Then then you're right.

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Speaker 7: You're then putting this aside based on what the Justice

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Speaker 7: Department tends to do with presidential lawsuits and and and.

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Speaker 6: Things like this, for another four years.

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Speaker 7: I mean, and it just blows my mind to think that, like,

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Speaker 7: we could be waking up five six years from now

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Speaker 7: and this trial.

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Speaker 6: Starts up again in earnest. I mean, I just get

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Speaker 6: it's beyond my comprehension.

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Speaker 2: Knowing no one has the My god, Genie, you wrote

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Speaker 2: the column about indictment fit, did Jeff for imagine we'd

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Speaker 2: be doing this five years from now? Potentially. Does this

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Speaker 2: mean Genie Shanzeo, that the real case to watch is

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Speaker 2: the one here in Washington, jack Smith's case made for efficiency,

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Speaker 2: not this sprawling thing in Georgia.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, ty Cob just depressed me enormously with this. We

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Speaker 5: may go five years out on this, you know. For

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Speaker 5: my money, I think the Document's case is the most

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Speaker 5: clear cut and dry case. Although certainly Jack Smith is

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Speaker 5: trying to get the January sixth case, so to speak, earlier.

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Speaker 5: But I do think legally that that is the most

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Speaker 5: sound case, you know, And I also don't believe that

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Speaker 5: they we will see that January sixth case in DC

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Speaker 5: starting on January second, as Jack Smith wanted. I do

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Speaker 5: think that Jack Smith has got to be a tiny

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Speaker 5: bit perturbed by what happened in Georgia last night. Not unexpected,

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Speaker 5: of course, because much of the behavior and the conduct

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Speaker 5: he has already charged Trump with in the case in DC.

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Speaker 5: Now you've got another case, same witnesses. And you know,

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Speaker 5: we heard ty Cobb saying, you know, he's certainly and

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Speaker 5: I agree with ty Cobb on this, he's not gonna

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Speaker 5: want Fonnie Willis's case going first, and won't you know,

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Speaker 5: allow that if he can help it. The other thing

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Speaker 5: is is that he certainly has got to be, you know,

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Speaker 5: a bit frustrated that this is happening at all. Not

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Speaker 5: the other eighteen defendants weren't charged in his case, but

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Speaker 5: certainly as you look at Trump, so I think there's

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Speaker 5: a little bit of prosecutorial combat going on here. But

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Speaker 5: nothing's gonna stop either one of them. This state case

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Speaker 5: will certainly go forward, and unlikely, by the way, the

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Speaker 5: federal courts will be able to move it up. This

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Speaker 5: is certainly a rico case. The state has a right

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Speaker 5: to show their facts hard to get that appealed and

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Speaker 5: take it into the federal courts.

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Speaker 2: We heard from the former lieutenant governor of Georgia, Republican

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Speaker 2: of course, who Donald Trump was writing about on truth

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Speaker 2: social the other day, suggesting that he should not testify.

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Speaker 2: He did and spoke with reporters when he exited the

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Speaker 2: courtroom yesterday. I remember this is a Republican speaking now in

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Speaker 2: Jeff Duncan here.

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Speaker 8: He is, well, I hope my testimony gets the facts,

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Speaker 8: you know, as they are, and helps to continue to

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Speaker 8: paint a real and honest picture. But politically speaking, this

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Speaker 8: is a pivot point for this country to do something

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Speaker 8: more than just stew on the twenty twenty election cycle. Right,

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Speaker 8: we're either going to, as Republicans, take our medicine and

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Speaker 8: realize the election wasn't rigged. Donald Trump was the worst

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Speaker 8: candidate ever in the history of the party, even worse

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Speaker 8: than herschel Walker. And now we're gonna have to pivot

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Speaker 8: from there. Right, we want to win an election in

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Speaker 8: twenty twenty four, it's gonna have to be somebody other

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Speaker 8: than Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: The worst candidate in the history of our country. That's

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Speaker 2: quite a statement, Rick, I just wonder your thoughts on

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump's standing among Republicans in Georgia. It's awfully complicated

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Speaker 2: when you have people voting for Brian Kemp and then

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Speaker 2: I guess somehow Donald Trump. Would it be different next time?

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Speaker 6: No, I think that's a really important dynamic.

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Speaker 7: You point out, Joe, because is you know, you try

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Speaker 7: to look at like how many of his favorables is

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Speaker 7: he getting, how many of people, you know, like the

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Speaker 7: governor Kemp is getting off of his favorables?

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Speaker 6: Where do they where they cross over?

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Speaker 7: I can't imagine a more complex race than the one

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Speaker 7: he ran at twenty twenty with you know, all these

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Speaker 7: Senate candidates and being on the ballot at the same time,

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Speaker 7: but he also remembers his last real political feat was

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Speaker 7: to try and actually beat Governor camp, a wildly popular

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Speaker 7: Republican in the state. And and so when you look

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Speaker 7: at this and you hear these comments by Jeff Duncan,

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Speaker 7: and you think, you know, the Democratic playbook on advertising

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Speaker 7: against Donald Trump is being written by Republicans.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I've.

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Speaker 7: Never seen anything like this where the number of quotes

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Speaker 7: that you could put into a TV advertisement in the

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Speaker 7: state of Georgia with Republicans attacking Donald Trump is like

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Speaker 7: nothing that's ever happened in modern American politics. They'll ever

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Speaker 7: have to have a message delivered by Democrats against Trump

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Speaker 7: because of all these Republicans saying things like Jeff Duncan said,

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Speaker 7: which is.

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Speaker 6: He's the worst candidate in history.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and so it's just going to be I don't

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Speaker 7: know how you overcome that.

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Speaker 6: I don't These are credible people.

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Speaker 7: He was a lieutenant governor, he's got his own popularity,

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Speaker 7: and for having them say these things, and it's just

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Speaker 7: getting started. I mean, imagine when one or two or

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Speaker 7: three of these current indicted defendants start to turn and

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Speaker 7: make public statements. Donald Trump's not the only one with

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Speaker 7: a megaphone at that point, and I think he's going

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Speaker 7: to pay an incredible price for that.

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Speaker 2: Politically, well, i'll tell you what. Republicans in the US

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Speaker 2: House are still behind him, Genie the Speaker himself, Kevin

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Speaker 2: McCarthy on Twitter or x or whatever it is. Justice

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Speaker 2: should be blind. But Biden has weaponized government against his

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Speaker 2: leading political opponent to interfere in the twenty twenty four election. Now,

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Speaker 2: a radical da in Georgia, he writes, almost as if

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Speaker 2: this is Trump writing, is following Biden's lead by attacking

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Speaker 2: President Trump and using it to fund raise her political career.

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Speaker 2: Americans see through this desperate sham. Getting back to Rick's point,

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Speaker 2: how can you argue this is the weaponization of government

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Speaker 2: when it's coming from Republicans in Georgia.

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Speaker 5: Well, far be it from me to advise Donald Trump's campaign.

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Speaker 5: But what they will say is what they always say,

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Speaker 5: Those are a bunch of rhinos. Jack Duncan, the former

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Speaker 5: lieutenant governor, is a rhino, as is Adam Kissinger, as

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Speaker 5: is Liz Cheney. I mean, they will go down the

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Speaker 5: list to your point. We've heard a lot of people

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Speaker 5: defending Donald Trump in just a few minutes. Ted Cruz

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Speaker 5: I think was one of the first, a least stefanic,

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Speaker 5: Kevin McCarthy. I mean, the list goes on and on,

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Speaker 5: and conservative media is also defending him. There was Alan

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Speaker 5: Dershowitz on Foxy talking about how al Gore did the

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Speaker 5: same thing in Florida. Why isn't he prosecuted. So this

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Speaker 5: is what voters on the ground are hearing. They are

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Speaker 5: hearing this is overkill. They are hearing the first president

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Speaker 5: for indictments, and so that is what they are is

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Speaker 5: going to be ringing in their ears as Trump bellows

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Speaker 5: out that these are rhinos, they're not real Republicans. So,

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Speaker 5: you know, I agree with Rick, Democrats should use these

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Speaker 5: in their campaigns. It may help with moderates and independence,

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Speaker 5: which will keep the White House. But it's not going

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Speaker 5: to stop Trump from getting the primary election because it

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Speaker 5: appeals to people on the ground who vote in primaries.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get into the primaries, and we have

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Speaker 2: a couple of new polls that I want to look

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Speaker 2: at with you coming up and in our remaining moment

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Speaker 2: right now, Rick, it's been crickets in the Senate and

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Speaker 2: you've made this point repeatedly. It's like a different Republican

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Speaker 2: Party in these two chambers.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, we've seen Mitch McConnell and the leadership there go

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Speaker 7: through various phases of withdrawal when it comes to trying

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Speaker 7: to say goodbye to Donald Trump, and none of it

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Speaker 7: has particularly worked because he's still there and he's still powerful.

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Speaker 7: And the reality is that that Mitch McConnell has tried

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Speaker 7: to wage a quiet war.

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Speaker 6: Against Donald Trump.

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Speaker 7: But my sense is that that's not working. There's no

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Speaker 7: evidence that it's hurt Donald Trump's standing with Republican voters,

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Speaker 7: and ultimately, that is the only judge in all of

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Speaker 7: this is the will Republican voters turn out for Donald Trump?

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Speaker 7: And if they do, how does that complicate everybody's views?

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Speaker 7: And Republican senators other than his most dire supporters like

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Speaker 7: Ted Cruz, who without Donald Trump, is the most exposed

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Speaker 7: man in the United States Senate, he will have very

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Speaker 7: little influence if Donald Trump is not around anymore. And

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Speaker 7: that's why they're out there defending him today because he

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Speaker 7: is their lifeline to power.

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Speaker 2: We'll dig into the campaign ahead with new numbers nationally

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Speaker 2: and for the state of New Hampshire.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us live weekdays at one

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Speaker 1: Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the

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Speaker 1: Blog Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcast. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Of course, Donald Trump never won to miss an opportunity,

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Speaker 2: and he'll be taking this one. With a news conference

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Speaker 2: scheduled for Monday morning. Donald Trump on Truth Social I'm

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Speaker 2: using Genie's log in here. A large, complex, detailed but

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Speaker 2: irrefutable report in all caps on the presidential election fraud

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Speaker 2: which took place in Georgia is almost complete, he writes,

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Speaker 2: and will be presented by me at a major news

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Speaker 2: conference eleven am Monday, Bedminster, New Jersey. Based on the

439
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 2: results of this conclusive report, all charges should be dropped

440
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: against me and others. We reassemble our panel, Rick Davis

441
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: and Genie Shanzo, Bloomberg Politics contributors. I hope you don't

442
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: mind me using your log in here, Genie, but it's

443
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: going to be an interesting week next week. Think about

444
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: what we have scheduled here, A news conference apparently Bedminster Monday.

445
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: There's a debate next week, guys. That's Wednesday, the twenty third, Milwaukee,

446
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: and then by Friday, all of the defendants named in

447
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: this indictment face a deadline to show up in court

448
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: and surrender themselves. Hard to say which one will get

449
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: bigger ratings, but the nation will be watching. Jeanie. What's

450
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 2: this news conference going to bring us on Monday?

451
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 5: It's going to bring you logging into truth social a

452
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 5: lot more, Joe, And you know, I'm just listening to

453
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 5: you reiterate the schedule for next week, and I think

454
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 5: it's three days later, the twenty eighth, we have the

455
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 5: next hearing on the January sixth case in d C.

456
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 5: I mean, it is just mind umbing to think about

457
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 5: the collision between the political calendar and now the legal calendar,

458
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 5: and of course with him adding to it with the

459
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 5: news conference on Monday at eleven, it's utterly astoundished, astonishing

460
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 5: to think how any individual could you fight on both

461
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 5: of these fronts. And I'm not sure how the president,

462
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 5: the former president can, but he seems determined to keep

463
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 5: this up.

464
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: It was Rick Davis on this program who I believe

465
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 2: predicted first of all, Donald Trump not showing up at

466
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: that debate. Most likely he's been dancing around that whole idea.

467
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: But Rick, I wonder how he seeses on the opportunity.

468
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: A producer. James here had actually a pretty interesting idea.

469
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 2: What if he doesn't wait till Friday. What if he

470
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: does go to the courthouse in Georgia, but he does

471
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 2: it on Wednesday, does it the same day as the

472
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 2: debate and either shows up on the stage or goes

473
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: back home to hold a news conference or something. Isn't

474
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 2: that the kind of counterprogramming we should expect.

475
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think James must be renting space in Donald

476
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 7: Trump's head right now, because I would think that that's

477
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 7: exactly the Donald Trump move. Right. You notice he said

478
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 7: originally when he said he didn't think he was going

479
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 7: to go to the debate, that he'd do his own event. Well,

480
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 7: he's got already made one at Fulton County Court, that's right.

481
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 7: And every major news outlet will take it live like

482
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 7: they've done with all the previous indictments, and this one

483
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 7: will be no exception. And that will leave eleven other

484
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 7: Republican presidential candidates getting probably you know, a smidgeon of

485
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 7: news out of the debate. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, because of course,

486
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 7: nobody will really care what they're talking about, unless, of course,

487
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 7: one of them breaks their silence and decides to go

488
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 7: after Donald Trump, and then that'll probably get all kinds

489
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 7: of coverage that plays into the scenario that Donald Trump

490
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 7: has set up.

491
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 6: For all of them.

492
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: It's, you know, either way, we're talking aboun to be all.

493
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 6: Trump next week, and.

494
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 7: It's not the way he would have wanted it, but

495
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 7: it's certainly from his perspective. If it's Trump all the time,

496
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 7: then then it's a good thing, even if it's bad news.

497
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: So we've got new pulling out today morning consults with

498
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: a national poll. The samples pretty good, more than three

499
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: thousand likely Republican primary voters granted national Donald Trump fifty seven.

500
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: By the way, they wrap this on the thirteenth, all right,

501
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: so it was the day before the indictment, dropped eleven

502
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: through the thirteenth, Donald Trump fifty seven percent, Ron DeSantis sixteen,

503
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: Vivek Ramaswami nine, Mike Pence seven and then we go

504
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: off a cliff after that. But then there's the Emerson

505
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: College pole and this is coming out of the primary

506
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: in New Hampshire, Trump forty nine. Look who's in second place,

507
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: Chris Christi at nine percent, followed by DeSantis at eight

508
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: What do these tell you, Genie?

509
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 5: You know, I think two things in particular from the

510
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 5: Emerson number One, DeSantis support is dwindling in New Hampshire.

511
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 5: He's not going in the frank direction. We should say that.

512
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 5: Of course, Chris Christy, just one percent ahead of him,

513
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 5: is still well within the margin of era, which is

514
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 5: three point four on that pole. But I think the

515
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 5: other thing that really struck me as you look at

516
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 5: the top concerns of New Hampshire voters, not surprisingly you

517
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 5: see economy, you see housing, and look at that third one,

518
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 5: threats to democracy. Just what we're talking about with a

519
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 5: presidential candidate, former president, who's charged with four indictments out

520
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 5: on bail right now in three different jurisdictions, soon to

521
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 5: be a fourth. This is where this is coming from.

522
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 5: It's not common in election polling in the modern era.

523
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 5: You see that, and I think that may account for

524
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 5: some of what we are seeing with Christie's rising support.

525
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 5: And of course Chris Christie predicted a long time ago

526
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 5: by election day, primary day, he will be in first

527
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 5: in New Hampshire. I'm not saying that's going to happen.

528
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 5: But he certainly has moved up in this poll.

529
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: So does this tell you more about Chris Christie rising

530
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: to nine or Desanta's falling to eight? Rick Davis, you know,

531
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: it tells me.

532
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 7: The thing you know about primaries is that states matter

533
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 7: and campaigns matter. And Chris Christy isn't really campaigning in

534
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 7: Iowa where all the rest of his contenders are, and

535
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 7: he's put New Hampshire first in his strategy and it's

536
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 7: starting to pay off, and he's doing it.

537
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 6: Relatively below the radar.

538
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 7: Of course we see him constantly on cable TV, but

539
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 7: he's in New Hampshire, you know, almost every day, meeting

540
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 7: voters and building a coalition of people who could, you know,

541
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 7: help him build an election win.

542
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 6: So I think he's doing exactly what he needs to

543
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 6: be doing to be relevant as a candidate.

544
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 7: And we can dismiss him all we want when it

545
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 7: comes to these national polls, but he's he's actually playing

546
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 7: the calendar.

547
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 6: And can he.

548
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 7: Survive not being around Iowa With all the attention on Iowa,

549
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 7: we'll see?

550
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 6: I mean, Iowa is more relevant today than it usually is.

551
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 7: And and if there is an upset, meaning Donald Trump

552
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 7: doesn't win Iowa, then then it boosts Christy, who will

553
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 7: have had somebody else do the dirty work in Iowa

554
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 7: so that he could take advantage of it in New Hampshire.

555
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 7: So it's a it's a legit strategy, and I think

556
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 7: you know this polling tells you that that you know

557
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 7: it's it's it's starting to pay off.

558
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: Interesting this morning. Console poll that I mentioned, the national

559
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: poll is the ticket that several candidates are punching here

560
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: to get on the stage for the second debate. Of

561
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: course Trump and DeSantis will be there the RNC though,

562
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: as we discussed tightening criteria here, you're going to need

563
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: three percent now in a national poll, and that means

564
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: that that Ramaswami is in, Nicky Haley, Senator Tim Scott,

565
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: and the aforementioned Chris Christy. Will see who else ends

566
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: up making the stage because Asa Hutchinson, Bergham, Suarez heard

567
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: someone else all zero to one percent. I'm Joe Matthew

568
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: and Washington with our great panel, Rick Davis and Genie Shanzino.

569
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about Ron DeSantis. I thought he's

570
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: sat for a big time interview last night, but now

571
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: what's talking about it.

572
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to The

573
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at

574
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg

575
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: dot Com, and.

576
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 6: The Bloomberg Business App.

577
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

578
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven.

579
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: Just a big interview for Ronda Santis. Remember he's going

580
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: to start doing more media, talking to more media operations,

581
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: not just the conservative cable networks, and so he went

582
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 2: on the other big financial network last night. It was

583
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: a big thing. Interesting. He showed up a program called

584
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: Last Call, and some were wondering if maybe it was

585
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: a lot to talk about with the governor of Florida.

586
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 2: Of course, you know, the contest with Donald Trump is

587
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 2: war on woke and the whole thing about Walt Disney,

588
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: the war on Disney. That came up, as you would

589
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: expect it it would in a conversation like this, and well,

590
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if this whole thing is over.

591
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 6: Listen where we are today.

592
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 2: You know, we've we've basically moved on they're suing the

593
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: State of Florida. They're going to lose that lawsuit. So

594
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 2: what I would say is drop the lawsuit. Huh, and

595
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 2: then what we all go home? Final thoughts from our panel,

596
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Ny Schanzano. Rick, Is this done? Did did?

597
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: Did he just fold on Disney?

598
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 6: Yeah? It sounded like a full retreat. Oh, you know,

599
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 6: I got married there.

600
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 7: This is a great place I kept during COVID.

601
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 6: You know, no word.

602
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 7: Of you know, wokeness, no word of don't say gay,

603
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 7: which started the fight, you know, and and the pitch

604
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 7: you know, on a TV show to send a message

605
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 7: to Bob Iger, the CEO of Disney's, saying.

606
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 6: Drop your lawsuit. We'll move on.

607
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 7: I must admit I'm flabberg acid because, you know, Genie

608
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 7: and I have been talking for six months about like

609
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 7: we don't.

610
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 6: Get the whole war on Disney.

611
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 7: We don't get the get you know, the the woke thing.

612
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 7: You know, we don't understand what he's trying to accomplish. Well,

613
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 7: now at least we know he agrees with us and

614
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 7: he's moved on.

615
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 2: Is that how you see it? Genie? Does he does

616
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 2: Disney drop a suit?

617
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 7: You know?

618
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 5: The mouse is very forgiving, and I agree with Rick.

619
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 5: I'm so glad he's been listening. Ron get over the mouse.

620
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 5: Move on, it's not helping. We love the mouse.

621
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: I hear the mouse can roar. I don't know about that.

622
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: Let's see where we're going, but just remember this. On

623
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: the fifteenth of August, Ronda Santis asking Disney to drop

624
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: the soup. Thanks for listening to The Sound on podcast.

625
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

626
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: and anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can

627
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 2: find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one

628
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com