WEBVTT - 8: Endgame 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.800 One of the biggest publishing success stories of the twenty 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.680 tens was Ready Player One. The book, which came out 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.400 in twenty eleven, tells the story of Wade Watts, a 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.520 gamer living in a dystopian future who tries to find 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.880 real world treasure hidden by an eccentric game designer named 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:25.159 James Halliday. Deciphering the game means uncovering the location of 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:32.120 Halliday's entire fortune. This probably sounds familiar. The novel's author, 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.919 Ernest Klein, spells it out on page forty two when 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.800 Wade is asked if he recognizes an old Atari game 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:43.600 series called sword Quest. Wade not only recognizes it, he 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:48.400 can confirm the name of all four games, earth World, Fireworld, 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:54.160 water World, and Airworld, and all their prizes the Talisman, 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:59.520 the Chalice, the Crown, the Philosopher's Stone, and the Sword 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.320 of All Time to miss Sorcery. Wade thinks Halliday took 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:08.160 inspiration from the sword Quest series. Obviously, so did Ernest Klein, 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.360 and he earned a treasure of sorts too. It's all 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.760 pretty meta. Ready Player One was the subject of a 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.360 bidding war for publication rights. It also got Klein a 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.560 movie deal. Steven Spielberg directed the film adaptation, which came 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.199 out in twenty eighteen. Both the movie and the book 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:31.160 were widely but not universally loved. There was a podcast 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:35.319 that reviewed the book in excruciating detail. The title was 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.680 three hundred and seventy two pages will Never Get Back, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.600 so you can probably guess how the hosts felt about it. 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.479 But nonetheless, Ready Player one was the kind of cultural 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.000 sensation Atari had hoped sword Quest would be a multi 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:54.000 media phenomenon, and no, Ernest Klein didn't wind up locating 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.360 the sword Quest prizes and buying them for himself, at 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.200 least we don't think he did. He's a Bout to 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.080 the future fan, so he bought a Dolorian instead. Even 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.720 though that's not where we're going with this, Ernest is 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:10.560 still somewhat responsible for what happens in this saga. The 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:12.280 concluding chapter. 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.120 The Treasures, the Lost Treasure of sword Quest. 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:20.640 That's Casey Jones. Casey works in video editing now, but 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.160 back when Ready Player one came out in twenty eleven, 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.360 Casey was employed at a coffee shop. 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.119 So I'll back up again in two thousand and nine 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:35.240 twenty ten, abouts I worked at a cafe in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:40.840 Who is a franchise location of Aroma Espresso Bars, an 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:45.800 Israeli chain, and it was owned and operated by one 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:50.760 Gabe Tremmeel, as well as his younger brother, Mark Tremmel. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.480 He was assistant manager or something like that supervisor. 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:59.040 Aroma had a few dozen locations in Canada. Casey worked 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.640 at one in Toronto. Casey is also a gamer, and 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.200 he happened to pick up the book everyone was talking 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.120 about Ready Player one, and of course he saw the 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:14.079 mention of sword Quest, and then Casey realized something. The 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.720 owners of the bar, brothers Gabe and Mark Tremmel, had 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.040 the same last name as Jack Tremmeil, the former owner 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:25.760 of Atari. Gabe and Mark were Jack's grandsons, and so 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:29.920 one day Casey decided to casually bring up those missing prizes. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.400 It's a question no member of the Trammel family has 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:37.240 ever publicly addressed, and one they're still unwilling to comment on. 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.200 When the contest was canceled and the three remaining prizes 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.040 went unawarded, were the treasures destroyed or did they wind 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.720 up in the possession of the family. Atari historians have 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.720 long wanted to find out we wanted to find out 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.840 and Casey, well, Casey just asked. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:04:00.120 So I asked Gabe about the history, like, since he 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:04.160 was related to Jack Tremmel, did he ever hear anything 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:08.080 about this story, about these these lost artifacts of the 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.600 sword Quest and sweet steaks or contests that they were 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:12.120 doing but never finished. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:17.040 And then Gabe very matter of factly turned this story 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:23.320 upside down. For iHeartRadio, this is the legend of sword Quest. 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.520 I'm your host, Jamie Loftist, and this is the eighth 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.600 and final episode, Endgame. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:40.560 I've been thinking, sister yes Tor, about abinging our parents' 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.640 death at the hand of King taran Us. 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:43.800 God. 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.560 Sure, but I was also thinking about what else we 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.560 could do if we found the Sword of Ultimate Sorcery. 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:51.839 Lop off that demon's head. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.800 Yeah, absolutely, and then you know, maybe we. 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:57.320 Sell it, sell it. 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.360 What I mean, a lot of collectors would pay good 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:02.200 money for this thing, Tor. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:06.000 The sword is for vengeance, for honor, not for commerce. 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:11.960 Right, No, totally, but I'm just saying, if we find it, maybe. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.360 We should at least get it appraised. 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.360 In telling the story of sword Quest, you eventually come 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.279 to a fork in the road Bear left, and you 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.040 can explore the enigma of the contest and the fate 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:27.120 of the prizes, which have been presumed missing for nearly 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.960 four decades bear right, and you can have a conversation 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:36.120 about their actual material value, not necessarily their historical significance. 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.440 Think of the ruby slippers from The Wizard of Oz. 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.159 They're part of film history by association. They have a 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:47.799 kind of magic, but they're also a commodity. One pair, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.600 and yes, there are several pairs sold for over six 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.839 hundred thousand dollars back in twenty eleven. Like the sword 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.640 Quest prizes, other pairs have gone missing, which oddly makes 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.120 them the more valued and appreciated. So what would it 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.080 really mean to find these pieces of video game lore 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.200 from a monetary perspective, It depends on who you ask. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.640 Yeah, exactly, No, it looks fantastic, you know, and it's beautiful, 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.000 and probably that's the most expensive because as sword and 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.080 fantasy really as the ultimate I mean, I always think anyway, 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.039 you're out in the action, you're battling here, you're slaying 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:24.640 the dragon. 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:24.880 Right. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:30.200 That's Lewis Checchia. Lewis is what you'd call uniquely qualified 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.560 to offer an opinion about the actual value of these prizes. 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:38.000 Today he's a part time jewelry appraiser, but more than that, 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.800 he once worked at the Franklin Mint, the collectibles company 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:42.799 that made the treasures. 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.280 We were artisans, so you know, we did all sculptures, 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.920 We did dicast cars, we did numismatics, we did stamps, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:56.160 we did leather bound books, dolls, pocket knives, pocket watches, 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.160 you name it. And really in the business world, people 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.720 could come to us with whatever and we could develop it. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.640 And it sounds like that's what Attari really did. 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.720 No, he didn't have a hand in their creation. Lewis 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.680 didn't arrive at the Mint until nineteen ninety two when 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.600 he was an intern. That's a full decade after the 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.760 prizes were produced. Later, he became a development manager for 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:23.480 their mid precision models think mini cars. Lewis also worked 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.640 with the airs of celebrities like John Wayne and Elvis 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.440 Presley to make sure the license collectibles were on target. 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:35.400 In doing so, Lewis realized the Mint wasn't just selling collectibles. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:42.280 We've done some amazing pieces of artwork for the Royal 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.640 House of Faberge where we worked with the licensers there. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.280 We've worked with Ferrari and Lamborghini and Rolls Royce, and 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:51.760 you know, each time I had to really visit those 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.440 companies and it really helped drive home that you know, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.200 Franklin really wasn't selling products, they were selling experiences. So 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.280 the the amount of work that we did to reproduce 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.200 something and to capture the spirit of John Wayne and 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:09.120 a John Wayne rifle, or to capture the exotic feeling 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:14.640 the Ferrari or Lamborghini quintash was really phenomenal because you know, 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.440 we worked directly with the people that developed them. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.400 Even though he didn't personally encrust the chalice with some jewels, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.600 Lewis understands how the sausage was made at the mint, 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:27.480 which is important when you're trying to appraise items that 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.880 you can't physically hold in your hand. And while you 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.360 may think something related to gaming wouldn't be in the 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.560 same arena as movie props or comics or antiques, you'd 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:42.680 be wrong. Video game collecting exploded during the coronavirus pandemic, 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.920 as did most other collectibles. Rare copies of video games 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.680 still in their plastic shrink wrap now fetch thousands, tens 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:54.560 of thousands, and even millions of dollars. A copy of 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.160 Nintendo's Super Mario Brothers, looking like it was just pulled 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.040 off a peg at Toys r Us sold for two 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.120 million dollars. A copy of the ultra rare Atari game 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:09.000 Air Raid sold for thirty three thousand dollars thanks to 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:13.240 having a complete box and manual, and an original wooden 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:17.160 prototype of a home version of the classic Atari game Pong, 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.319 which helped launch the home gaming industry, sold for two 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:25.160 hundred and seventy thousand dollars in twenty twenty two. But 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:30.480 unlike movies, which have props and costumes, games are more ethereal. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.640 Once you go through consoles and cartridges, there's not a 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.960 whole lot left. Sword Quest is one of the few 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:43.640 times actual tangible gaming treasures were created, and they come 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:48.160 with an incredible mythology surrounding them. If they ever did surface, 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.520 then it's possible the owner could strike gold that auctioned. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.880 Remember the first prize, the talisman was awarded to Stephen Bell. 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.960 Stephen sold it off relatively quickly to purchase his Pontiac Fear. 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.319 He kept a tiny miniature sword from it that was 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:08.439 later stolen from his bedroom. The culprit, possibly an ex girlfriend. 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.960 But let's say it hadn't been dismantled for material, or 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.960 let's say the jeweler that bought it from Stephen kept 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.640 it intact. How much would it be worth today, we 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:24.240 asked Lewis. Oh. Lewis, by the way, operates an animal 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:28.840 rescue in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It's Morris Animal Refuge, and they're 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.400 devoted to finding good homes for pets in need of them. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.439 Lewis was good enough to try and appraise some invisible treasures, 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.240 so we wanted to make sure to mention his work there. 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.760 But yeah, back to the talisman, which may have been 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.160 destroyed in nineteen eighty three but still exists in photos. 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.920 Lewis believes that if the medallion was worth twenty five 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.800 thousand dollars in nineteen eighty two, it probably had around 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.760 sixty three ounces of gold given the market rate at 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:56.600 the time, so. 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.840 That I ambul it without the stone, without the sword, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.720 it would probably be north of you know, definitely the 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.440 value of gold in there. If it is eighteen care gold, 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.520 probably be in the north of one hundred thousand. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.280 The only other prize to be awarded was the chalice, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.680 which contest winner Michael Rideout took home in nineteen eighty 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.840 four after being kept waiting for a few months, and 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.440 right now it's the only known surviving prize of the 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.680 entire contest. Michael Rideout is still believed to be in 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.520 possession of it, but he wouldn't confirm that with us, 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.680 So we're left to wonder if the base of the 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.320 chalice is hollow, which makes a difference in its value. 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.120 Without the weight, it would be really difficult from that standpoint. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.880 But I mean that is a one off, you know, 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.160 a beautiful chalice, and with the atari, I mean that 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.040 should be well north of one hundred thousand dollars. 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.679 But that's if the base of the chalice is hollow, 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:50.880 if it's actual solid gold. 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.120 If it was solid gold, it could infect double the 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.240 value of that because you're talking a lot of gold 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:57.000 in there. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.760 Then there's the Crown of Life, one of the three prizes. 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.760 There's never been a picture of it, only illustrations, So 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:09.119 this one is trickier. So is the Philosopher's Stone. No photos, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.400 just descriptions and some artwork. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.319 Yeah, and they're saying that those are twenty five thousand 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.199 a piece of value. My guess is they probably use 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.400 a similar weight of gold and jewels on there. Yeah, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.600 So my guess is you can reasonably say that all 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.240 of these are, you know, at least one hundred thousand 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:32.400 plus valued, you know, based just on their precious metal 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:33.280 and jewel content. 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.920 But for sheer presence, no sword quest prize is equal 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:43.400 to the Sword of Ultimate Sorcery gilded steel but jeweled hilt. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.040 In nineteen eighty two, Atari claimed it had a value 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:48.720 of fifty thousand dollars. 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.160 And this is harder for me to come up with 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.559 because that's saying it's two times more valuable than the others. 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.720 But the others have a lot of gold in them, 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.080 and I guess and the hilt on that is solid gold. 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.400 That's probably the only way it gets to it. And 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.560 maybe it's seven or eight pounds of gold that gets 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.320 you to that price. So yeah, I mean, so that 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.800 sort can easily be a couple hundred thousand dollars in 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.680 precious materials if it's much heavier than the medallion or 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.560 the talisman. Yeah, so that easily could be a three 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.520 hundred thousand dollars piece at auction, just based off of 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.000 its precious metals and the fact that there's only one 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:31.319 made and it's gorgeous. You know the pictures, it looks gorgeous. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:37.000 But in collectibles, especially auctions, the story is everything, just 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.760 like at the Franklin Mint, And if an auction house 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.760 could tell the right story, the sky's the limit. 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.080 I think this sword, if it was marketed correctly in 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.640 at one of the major auction houses that you know, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.720 was part of a collection of either video game or 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.440 fantasy or period in time eighties, there's a lot of 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.360 ways they can cut it. I mean, I think that 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.959 sort could find itself north of three hundred thousand dollars, 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.600 and then there it could go much higher. I mean, 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.920 you know, pieces like they could go for five hundred thousand, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.320 but you just never know who's going to come in, 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.280 how much interest they have in it. But you know 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.720 it's got so much more value than the precious metal content. 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:22.120 Again big disclaimer, Lewis is making these estimates based on 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.880 what little is known about how the prizes were made 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.920 and what materials were used, along with their estimated size. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.600 They could sell for that much or much less or 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.120 not at all, although that's a little hard to believe. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.920 But in a way, the potential value of these items 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.760 speaks a little to whether they still exist. If someone 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.920 owned three items worth hundreds of thousands, why wouldn't they 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.960 have surfaced by now? Could they really be kept hidden 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.000 for this long? If they exchanged hands, could that be 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:58.280 kept quiet? It's possible, and it's possible if the items 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.320 held some sentimental value for the owner, which brings us 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.880 back to the Trammels, Aroma Espresso Bar and Casey Jones. 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.520 Compared to Starbucks, Aroma Espresso Bar doesn't have a huge 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.720 global footprint. It has about two hundred locations, most in Israel, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.520 where it was founded in nineteen ninety four, along with 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.320 two in Ukraine and one in Miami, Florida. The rest 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.880 are in Canada. It's got more or less what you'd 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.080 expect from a coffeehouse. 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:38.000 It's maybe not quite the scale of Starbucks, but consider 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:42.680 it like an Israeli exported Starbucks. They did baked goods, 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:47.040 they did coffee, they did sandwiches, salads. They're great if 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:48.640 you ever have the chance to go to an Aroma 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.840 Espresso bar. They're a bit pricey now, but if you 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.880 ever have the chance, they make a very good halloomy sandwich. 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.480 Again, that's Casey Jones in twenty eleven. It was a 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.960 place for him to pick up a paycheck. Casey, you'll recall, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.040 was working at an Aroma in Toronto for a spell. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.240 Probably about two two and a half years, cycling between 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.920 part time in full time. It was like a job 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.000 in my early twenties. 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.120 It was just a gig. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.480 The two operators at that location were Mark and Gabe Tremmel, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.800 a sibling business duo in their twenties who had taken 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:29.120 over in two thousand and nine. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.800 There were decent guys. I mean, there was some level 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.760 of grumbling from the staff sometimes because like, ah, Gabe, 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.560 the boss is really pushing us hard or whatever. But 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.680 I think those are just realities of operating a cafe. 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:47.200 Gab and Mark as two individuals, I always got a 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:48.040 good read from them. 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.720 Casey was reading Ernest Klein's Ready Player one while working 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.560 at Aroma, not reading while literally working at Aroma during 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.359 his free time. It was a New York Times bestseller, 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.120 moving right roughly one point seven million copies, so he 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.040 was hardly alone. A lot of people had the book 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.760 in their hands. For many it might have been the 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.640 first time they'd ever heard of sword Quest, and then 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.199 some probably wondered if it was a real game or 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.720 if Ernest had just made it up. But Ready Player 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.320 one wasn't the only reason Casey was thinking about sword Quest. 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.560 Around the same time, a YouTuber known as the Angry 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.640 Video Game Nerd had done a retrospective of the series 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.359 and the missing prizes. Unlike the book, which didn't mention 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.520 the name Jack Tremmel, the nerd did, which gave Casey 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.440 more of a complete picture. Mark and Gabe, he discovered, 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:46.399 were Jack's grandsons. Their father, Sam Tremmel, had worked at 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:50.520 Atari under his father, and Jack had long been rumored 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.280 to have taken possession of the prizes. So Casey found 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.920 himself in proximity to two people who could possibly answer 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:02.520 the question that's been posed by gaming historians for decades. 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.680 When the sword Quest contest was canceled. Were the prizes 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.680 sold off for their material value or did Jack Tremmell 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.919 hang on to them. If Jack had taken possession of 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.560 the prizes, then surely his grandkids had seen them, had 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.880 picked up a sword of Ultimate Sorcery and waved its 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:25.080 blunted rounded edge around as children. As we've told you, 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.200 the Trammel's don't discuss it, but Casey wasn't a nosy journalist. 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.640 He was just making conversation in a coffee shop. That's 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.760 kind of what they're made for. So Casey posed the 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:41.560 question to Gabe Tremmel. Gabe didn't walk away, he didn't 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.960 say no comment. He started laughing, and then he said this. 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.000 There was very little hesitation. He's like, oh, yeah, I've 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.800 seen those. Yeah, he saw them, presumably at his grandpa's place, 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.040 Jack Tremmell's place. I can't confirm. This was just a 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.040 conversation that I had like thirteen years ago, so I 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:03.200 can't confirm full veracity, details or anything. But he did 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.000 say he was able to see them at Jack Tremmel's place, 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.399 either at his personal home or in his office somewhere 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:10.959 I don't know. 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:16.920 According to Casey, Gabe then offered an even more astounding detail. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.119 And Gabe also claimed that he had had his picture 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.080 taken with two of the artifacts. I don't remember exactly 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.760 which two they were. I want to say it was 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.320 the crown and the sword. I might be getting that 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:33.880 wrong because I don't recall which of the artifacts were 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.200 lost and which ones were paid out to the winners. 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.679 But Gabe claimed very fondly like, oh, yeah, no, I 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.640 have a picture of me wearing these. He didn't show 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.080 me the picture. Presumably it was on film, and really 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.480 that was it. Based off of that interaction, my understanding 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.880 was that at some point in the intervening years after 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.880 the end of the sword Quest contest, that those artifacts 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:02.119 found their way in to Jack Tremmel's hands, or you know, 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.800 he just took pictures of them with his grandson. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:05.560 You know. 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:07.840 Maybe he had them in a safety deposit box, maybe 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.840 he had them in a private residence. I don't know, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.800 but I can at least say he had them at 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.080 one point, or he had access to them at one 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:20.040 point and he was sharing enough with that access to 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.720 let his grandkid get a funny picture with it. But 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:25.800 unfortunately I've never seen the picture. 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.959 Somewhere in the possessions of Gabe Trammel apparently lurked a 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.560 photo of Gabe sporting a crown and waving a sword. 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.440 Not a crown or a sword, but the crown and 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:41.960 the sword. But there's a hiccup here. If someone asks 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.320 you about an urban legend your family was allegedly involved in, 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.520 maybe your tendency would be to joke about it. Oh, sure, 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.440 my grandfather was in the CIA, that sort of thing. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.040 So we asked Casey, was there any chance Gabe was 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:57.120 just kidding around. 0:20:57.840 --> 0:20:58.560 It's possible. 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:04.520 It seemed too specific to just be a joke. Maybe 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.679 he was just pulling my leg because I was asking 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.119 these directed questions. It's possible he was joking around or 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.399 exaggerating the story. But you know, when you work at 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.240 a cafe with a manager, you get a sense of 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.959 the way that they speak, and you know they're different tones. 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.040 So I was familiar with Gabe's joking tone as well 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:28.720 as his, you know, serious manager boss tones, and I 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.280 didn't peg it as a joke. I pegged it as 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.320 him telling the truth at the time. Whether or not 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:36.280 I was correct, who knows. 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.720 To the best of Casey's recollection, he brought up sword 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.919 Quest once or twice more to Gabe, but by this 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.240 point Gabe seemed to have grown reluctant to discuss it 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.840 any further. It wouldn't be an ongoing topic of conversation. 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.440 When I sensed that he put the brakes on the story, 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.119 I sensed that it may have been because, oh, this 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.520 is actually getting into some stuff that he doesn't want 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.520 to speak about. Out in a public space with other 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.320 people sitting at the bar overhearing him, or other people 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.040 working overhearing him. And that was really the end of it. 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:10.560 When I started digging into it more, I got a 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.880 sense that he started realizing I was asking some very 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.159 directed questions, and he started to shy away from the 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:19.159 subject a little bit. 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:20.240 There are a. 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:24.080 Lot of unknowns here. When exactly did Gabe take the 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:26.800 photo as a child or more recently. 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.720 I got the sense that it was fairly recent when 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.399 the photo was taken. Unfortunately, I don't have anything I 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:36.480 can go back to to like pinpoint that it might 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.280 just be my faulty memory. It may have been when 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:42.080 he was young, it may have been when he was 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.199 an adult. I got the sense at the time that 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:47.240 it was within the last five years or something, so 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:49.440 that would have placed it between two thousand and five 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:50.280 and twenty ten. 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:53.240 Gabe had no reason to lie about the photo, nor 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.600 does Casey. He just happened to be in the vicinity 0:22:56.640 --> 0:22:59.280 of Gabe and armed with a little bit of knowledge 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:04.919 when some wordquest trivia landed in his lap Mark. Gabe 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.760 operated the Aroma location through twenty thirteen and then went 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.280 on to different business pursuits. Casey left around the same time. 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:15.440 We asked if there were any other employees who may 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.800 have heard the story to corroborate it. Casey gave us 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:23.080 two names. One doesn't recall anything about it. The other 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.320 former employee answered our request for a comment by asking 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:30.080 who gave you my name and then never responded again. 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:36.040 This one knows something. I can feel it. It's no use, Tour. 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.800 He'd sooner lop off his tongue than reveal his secrets. 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:43.520