1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: One of the biggest publishing success stories of the twenty 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: tens was Ready Player One. The book, which came out 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: in twenty eleven, tells the story of Wade Watts, a 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: gamer living in a dystopian future who tries to find 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: real world treasure hidden by an eccentric game designer named 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 1: James Halliday. Deciphering the game means uncovering the location of 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: Halliday's entire fortune. This probably sounds familiar. The novel's author, 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: Ernest Klein, spells it out on page forty two when 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: Wade is asked if he recognizes an old Atari game 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: series called sword Quest. Wade not only recognizes it, he 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: can confirm the name of all four games, earth World, Fireworld, 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: water World, and Airworld, and all their prizes the Talisman, 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: the Chalice, the Crown, the Philosopher's Stone, and the Sword 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: of All Time to miss Sorcery. Wade thinks Halliday took 15 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: inspiration from the sword Quest series. Obviously, so did Ernest Klein, 16 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: and he earned a treasure of sorts too. It's all 17 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: pretty meta. Ready Player One was the subject of a 18 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: bidding war for publication rights. It also got Klein a 19 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: movie deal. Steven Spielberg directed the film adaptation, which came 20 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: out in twenty eighteen. Both the movie and the book 21 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: were widely but not universally loved. There was a podcast 22 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: that reviewed the book in excruciating detail. The title was 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: three hundred and seventy two pages will Never Get Back, 24 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: so you can probably guess how the hosts felt about it. 25 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,479 Speaker 1: But nonetheless, Ready Player one was the kind of cultural 26 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: sensation Atari had hoped sword Quest would be a multi 27 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: media phenomenon, and no, Ernest Klein didn't wind up locating 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: the sword Quest prizes and buying them for himself, at 29 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: least we don't think he did. He's a Bout to 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: the future fan, so he bought a Dolorian instead. Even 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: though that's not where we're going with this, Ernest is 32 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: still somewhat responsible for what happens in this saga. The 33 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: concluding chapter. 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: The Treasures, the Lost Treasure of sword Quest. 35 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: That's Casey Jones. Casey works in video editing now, but 36 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: back when Ready Player one came out in twenty eleven, 37 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: Casey was employed at a coffee shop. 38 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,119 Speaker 2: So I'll back up again in two thousand and nine 39 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 2: twenty ten, abouts I worked at a cafe in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 40 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: Who is a franchise location of Aroma Espresso Bars, an 41 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: Israeli chain, and it was owned and operated by one 42 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: Gabe Tremmeel, as well as his younger brother, Mark Tremmel. 43 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: He was assistant manager or something like that supervisor. 44 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: Aroma had a few dozen locations in Canada. Casey worked 45 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: at one in Toronto. Casey is also a gamer, and 46 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: he happened to pick up the book everyone was talking 47 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: about Ready Player one, and of course he saw the 48 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: mention of sword Quest, and then Casey realized something. The 49 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: owners of the bar, brothers Gabe and Mark Tremmel, had 50 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: the same last name as Jack Tremmeil, the former owner 51 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: of Atari. Gabe and Mark were Jack's grandsons, and so 52 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: one day Casey decided to casually bring up those missing prizes. 53 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: It's a question no member of the Trammel family has 54 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: ever publicly addressed, and one they're still unwilling to comment on. 55 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: When the contest was canceled and the three remaining prizes 56 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: went unawarded, were the treasures destroyed or did they wind 57 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: up in the possession of the family. Atari historians have 58 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: long wanted to find out we wanted to find out 59 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: and Casey, well, Casey just asked. 60 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 2: So I asked Gabe about the history, like, since he 61 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: was related to Jack Tremmel, did he ever hear anything 62 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: about this story, about these these lost artifacts of the 63 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: sword Quest and sweet steaks or contests that they were 64 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: doing but never finished. 65 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: And then Gabe very matter of factly turned this story 66 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: upside down. For iHeartRadio, this is the legend of sword Quest. 67 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jamie Loftist, and this is the eighth 68 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: and final episode, Endgame. 69 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 3: I've been thinking, sister yes Tor, about abinging our parents' 70 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 3: death at the hand of King taran Us. 71 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 4: God. 72 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 3: Sure, but I was also thinking about what else we 73 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 3: could do if we found the Sword of Ultimate Sorcery. 74 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 4: Lop off that demon's head. 75 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and then you know, maybe we. 76 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 4: Sell it, sell it. 77 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 3: What I mean, a lot of collectors would pay good 78 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 3: money for this thing, Tor. 79 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 5: The sword is for vengeance, for honor, not for commerce. 80 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 3: Right, No, totally, but I'm just saying, if we find it, maybe. 81 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 4: We should at least get it appraised. 82 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: In telling the story of sword Quest, you eventually come 83 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: to a fork in the road Bear left, and you 84 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: can explore the enigma of the contest and the fate 85 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: of the prizes, which have been presumed missing for nearly 86 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: four decades bear right, and you can have a conversation 87 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: about their actual material value, not necessarily their historical significance. 88 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: Think of the ruby slippers from The Wizard of Oz. 89 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: They're part of film history by association. They have a 90 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,799 Speaker 1: kind of magic, but they're also a commodity. One pair, 91 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: and yes, there are several pairs sold for over six 92 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars back in twenty eleven. Like the sword 93 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: Quest prizes, other pairs have gone missing, which oddly makes 94 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: them the more valued and appreciated. So what would it 95 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: really mean to find these pieces of video game lore 96 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: from a monetary perspective, It depends on who you ask. 97 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, No, it looks fantastic, you know, and it's beautiful, 98 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 6: and probably that's the most expensive because as sword and 99 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 6: fantasy really as the ultimate I mean, I always think anyway, 100 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 6: you're out in the action, you're battling here, you're slaying 101 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 6: the dragon. 102 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 4: Right. 103 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: That's Lewis Checchia. Lewis is what you'd call uniquely qualified 104 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: to offer an opinion about the actual value of these prizes. 105 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: Today he's a part time jewelry appraiser, but more than that, 106 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: he once worked at the Franklin Mint, the collectibles company 107 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: that made the treasures. 108 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 6: We were artisans, so you know, we did all sculptures, 109 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 6: We did dicast cars, we did numismatics, we did stamps, 110 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 6: we did leather bound books, dolls, pocket knives, pocket watches, 111 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 6: you name it. And really in the business world, people 112 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 6: could come to us with whatever and we could develop it. 113 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 6: And it sounds like that's what Attari really did. 114 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: No, he didn't have a hand in their creation. Lewis 115 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: didn't arrive at the Mint until nineteen ninety two when 116 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: he was an intern. That's a full decade after the 117 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: prizes were produced. Later, he became a development manager for 118 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: their mid precision models think mini cars. Lewis also worked 119 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: with the airs of celebrities like John Wayne and Elvis 120 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: Presley to make sure the license collectibles were on target. 121 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: In doing so, Lewis realized the Mint wasn't just selling collectibles. 122 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 6: We've done some amazing pieces of artwork for the Royal 123 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 6: House of Faberge where we worked with the licensers there. 124 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 6: We've worked with Ferrari and Lamborghini and Rolls Royce, and 125 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 6: you know, each time I had to really visit those 126 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 6: companies and it really helped drive home that you know, 127 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 6: Franklin really wasn't selling products, they were selling experiences. So 128 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 6: the the amount of work that we did to reproduce 129 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 6: something and to capture the spirit of John Wayne and 130 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 6: a John Wayne rifle, or to capture the exotic feeling 131 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 6: the Ferrari or Lamborghini quintash was really phenomenal because you know, 132 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 6: we worked directly with the people that developed them. 133 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: Even though he didn't personally encrust the chalice with some jewels, 134 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: Lewis understands how the sausage was made at the mint, 135 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: which is important when you're trying to appraise items that 136 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: you can't physically hold in your hand. And while you 137 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: may think something related to gaming wouldn't be in the 138 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: same arena as movie props or comics or antiques, you'd 139 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: be wrong. Video game collecting exploded during the coronavirus pandemic, 140 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: as did most other collectibles. Rare copies of video games 141 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: still in their plastic shrink wrap now fetch thousands, tens 142 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: of thousands, and even millions of dollars. A copy of 143 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: Nintendo's Super Mario Brothers, looking like it was just pulled 144 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: off a peg at Toys r Us sold for two 145 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: million dollars. A copy of the ultra rare Atari game 146 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: Air Raid sold for thirty three thousand dollars thanks to 147 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: having a complete box and manual, and an original wooden 148 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: prototype of a home version of the classic Atari game Pong, 149 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: which helped launch the home gaming industry, sold for two 150 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy thousand dollars in twenty twenty two. But 151 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: unlike movies, which have props and costumes, games are more ethereal. 152 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: Once you go through consoles and cartridges, there's not a 153 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: whole lot left. Sword Quest is one of the few 154 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: times actual tangible gaming treasures were created, and they come 155 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: with an incredible mythology surrounding them. If they ever did surface, 156 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: then it's possible the owner could strike gold that auctioned. 157 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: Remember the first prize, the talisman was awarded to Stephen Bell. 158 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: Stephen sold it off relatively quickly to purchase his Pontiac Fear. 159 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: He kept a tiny miniature sword from it that was 160 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: later stolen from his bedroom. The culprit, possibly an ex girlfriend. 161 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: But let's say it hadn't been dismantled for material, or 162 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: let's say the jeweler that bought it from Stephen kept 163 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: it intact. How much would it be worth today, we 164 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: asked Lewis. Oh. Lewis, by the way, operates an animal 165 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: rescue in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It's Morris Animal Refuge, and they're 166 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: devoted to finding good homes for pets in need of them. 167 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: Lewis was good enough to try and appraise some invisible treasures, 168 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: so we wanted to make sure to mention his work there. 169 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, back to the talisman, which may have been 170 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: destroyed in nineteen eighty three but still exists in photos. 171 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: Lewis believes that if the medallion was worth twenty five 172 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in nineteen eighty two, it probably had around 173 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: sixty three ounces of gold given the market rate at 174 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: the time, so. 175 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 6: That I ambul it without the stone, without the sword, 176 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 6: it would probably be north of you know, definitely the 177 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 6: value of gold in there. If it is eighteen care gold, 178 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 6: probably be in the north of one hundred thousand. 179 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: The only other prize to be awarded was the chalice, 180 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: which contest winner Michael Rideout took home in nineteen eighty 181 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: four after being kept waiting for a few months, and 182 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: right now it's the only known surviving prize of the 183 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: entire contest. Michael Rideout is still believed to be in 184 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: possession of it, but he wouldn't confirm that with us, 185 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: So we're left to wonder if the base of the 186 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: chalice is hollow, which makes a difference in its value. 187 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 6: Without the weight, it would be really difficult from that standpoint. 188 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 6: But I mean that is a one off, you know, 189 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 6: a beautiful chalice, and with the atari, I mean that 190 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 6: should be well north of one hundred thousand dollars. 191 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: But that's if the base of the chalice is hollow, 192 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: if it's actual solid gold. 193 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 6: If it was solid gold, it could infect double the 194 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 6: value of that because you're talking a lot of gold 195 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 6: in there. 196 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: Then there's the Crown of Life, one of the three prizes. 197 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: There's never been a picture of it, only illustrations, So 198 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:09,119 Speaker 1: this one is trickier. So is the Philosopher's Stone. No photos, 199 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: just descriptions and some artwork. 200 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 6: Yeah, and they're saying that those are twenty five thousand 201 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 6: a piece of value. My guess is they probably use 202 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 6: a similar weight of gold and jewels on there. Yeah, 203 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 6: So my guess is you can reasonably say that all 204 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 6: of these are, you know, at least one hundred thousand 205 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 6: plus valued, you know, based just on their precious metal 206 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 6: and jewel content. 207 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: But for sheer presence, no sword quest prize is equal 208 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: to the Sword of Ultimate Sorcery gilded steel but jeweled hilt. 209 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty two, Atari claimed it had a value 210 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: of fifty thousand dollars. 211 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 6: And this is harder for me to come up with 212 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 6: because that's saying it's two times more valuable than the others. 213 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 6: But the others have a lot of gold in them, 214 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 6: and I guess and the hilt on that is solid gold. 215 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 6: That's probably the only way it gets to it. And 216 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 6: maybe it's seven or eight pounds of gold that gets 217 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 6: you to that price. So yeah, I mean, so that 218 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 6: sort can easily be a couple hundred thousand dollars in 219 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 6: precious materials if it's much heavier than the medallion or 220 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 6: the talisman. Yeah, so that easily could be a three 221 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 6: hundred thousand dollars piece at auction, just based off of 222 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 6: its precious metals and the fact that there's only one 223 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 6: made and it's gorgeous. You know the pictures, it looks gorgeous. 224 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: But in collectibles, especially auctions, the story is everything, just 225 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: like at the Franklin Mint, And if an auction house 226 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: could tell the right story, the sky's the limit. 227 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 6: I think this sword, if it was marketed correctly in 228 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 6: at one of the major auction houses that you know, 229 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 6: was part of a collection of either video game or 230 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 6: fantasy or period in time eighties, there's a lot of 231 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 6: ways they can cut it. I mean, I think that 232 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 6: sort could find itself north of three hundred thousand dollars, 233 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 6: and then there it could go much higher. I mean, 234 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 6: you know, pieces like they could go for five hundred thousand, 235 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 6: but you just never know who's going to come in, 236 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 6: how much interest they have in it. But you know 237 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 6: it's got so much more value than the precious metal content. 238 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: Again big disclaimer, Lewis is making these estimates based on 239 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: what little is known about how the prizes were made 240 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: and what materials were used, along with their estimated size. 241 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: They could sell for that much or much less or 242 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: not at all, although that's a little hard to believe. 243 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: But in a way, the potential value of these items 244 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: speaks a little to whether they still exist. If someone 245 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: owned three items worth hundreds of thousands, why wouldn't they 246 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: have surfaced by now? Could they really be kept hidden 247 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: for this long? If they exchanged hands, could that be 248 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: kept quiet? It's possible, and it's possible if the items 249 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: held some sentimental value for the owner, which brings us 250 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: back to the Trammels, Aroma Espresso Bar and Casey Jones. 251 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: Compared to Starbucks, Aroma Espresso Bar doesn't have a huge 252 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: global footprint. It has about two hundred locations, most in Israel, 253 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: where it was founded in nineteen ninety four, along with 254 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: two in Ukraine and one in Miami, Florida. The rest 255 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: are in Canada. It's got more or less what you'd 256 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: expect from a coffeehouse. 257 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: It's maybe not quite the scale of Starbucks, but consider 258 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 2: it like an Israeli exported Starbucks. They did baked goods, 259 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: they did coffee, they did sandwiches, salads. They're great if 260 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 2: you ever have the chance to go to an Aroma 261 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: Espresso bar. They're a bit pricey now, but if you 262 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: ever have the chance, they make a very good halloomy sandwich. 263 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: Again, that's Casey Jones in twenty eleven. It was a 264 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: place for him to pick up a paycheck. Casey, you'll recall, 265 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: was working at an Aroma in Toronto for a spell. 266 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 2: Probably about two two and a half years, cycling between 267 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: part time in full time. It was like a job 268 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: in my early twenties. 269 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 4: It was just a gig. 270 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: The two operators at that location were Mark and Gabe Tremmel, 271 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: a sibling business duo in their twenties who had taken 272 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: over in two thousand and nine. 273 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: There were decent guys. I mean, there was some level 274 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 2: of grumbling from the staff sometimes because like, ah, Gabe, 275 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: the boss is really pushing us hard or whatever. But 276 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: I think those are just realities of operating a cafe. 277 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: Gab and Mark as two individuals, I always got a 278 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 2: good read from them. 279 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: Casey was reading Ernest Klein's Ready Player one while working 280 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: at Aroma, not reading while literally working at Aroma during 281 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,359 Speaker 1: his free time. It was a New York Times bestseller, 282 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: moving right roughly one point seven million copies, so he 283 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: was hardly alone. A lot of people had the book 284 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: in their hands. For many it might have been the 285 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: first time they'd ever heard of sword Quest, and then 286 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: some probably wondered if it was a real game or 287 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: if Ernest had just made it up. But Ready Player 288 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: one wasn't the only reason Casey was thinking about sword Quest. 289 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: Around the same time, a YouTuber known as the Angry 290 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: Video Game Nerd had done a retrospective of the series 291 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: and the missing prizes. Unlike the book, which didn't mention 292 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: the name Jack Tremmel, the nerd did, which gave Casey 293 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: more of a complete picture. Mark and Gabe, he discovered, 294 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: were Jack's grandsons. Their father, Sam Tremmel, had worked at 295 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: Atari under his father, and Jack had long been rumored 296 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: to have taken possession of the prizes. So Casey found 297 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: himself in proximity to two people who could possibly answer 298 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: the question that's been posed by gaming historians for decades. 299 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: When the sword Quest contest was canceled. Were the prizes 300 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: sold off for their material value or did Jack Tremmell 301 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: hang on to them. If Jack had taken possession of 302 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: the prizes, then surely his grandkids had seen them, had 303 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: picked up a sword of Ultimate Sorcery and waved its 304 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: blunted rounded edge around as children. As we've told you, 305 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: the Trammel's don't discuss it, but Casey wasn't a nosy journalist. 306 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 1: He was just making conversation in a coffee shop. That's 307 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: kind of what they're made for. So Casey posed the 308 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: question to Gabe Tremmel. Gabe didn't walk away, he didn't 309 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: say no comment. He started laughing, and then he said this. 310 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: There was very little hesitation. He's like, oh, yeah, I've 311 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 2: seen those. Yeah, he saw them, presumably at his grandpa's place, 312 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: Jack Tremmell's place. I can't confirm. This was just a 313 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 2: conversation that I had like thirteen years ago, so I 314 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 2: can't confirm full veracity, details or anything. But he did 315 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: say he was able to see them at Jack Tremmel's place, 316 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 2: either at his personal home or in his office somewhere 317 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 2: I don't know. 318 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: According to Casey, Gabe then offered an even more astounding detail. 319 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 2: And Gabe also claimed that he had had his picture 320 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: taken with two of the artifacts. I don't remember exactly 321 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: which two they were. I want to say it was 322 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: the crown and the sword. I might be getting that 323 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 2: wrong because I don't recall which of the artifacts were 324 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 2: lost and which ones were paid out to the winners. 325 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 2: But Gabe claimed very fondly like, oh, yeah, no, I 326 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 2: have a picture of me wearing these. He didn't show 327 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: me the picture. Presumably it was on film, and really 328 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: that was it. Based off of that interaction, my understanding 329 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 2: was that at some point in the intervening years after 330 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 2: the end of the sword Quest contest, that those artifacts 331 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 2: found their way in to Jack Tremmel's hands, or you know, 332 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: he just took pictures of them with his grandson. 333 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: You know. 334 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: Maybe he had them in a safety deposit box, maybe 335 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: he had them in a private residence. I don't know, 336 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: but I can at least say he had them at 337 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: one point, or he had access to them at one 338 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: point and he was sharing enough with that access to 339 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: let his grandkid get a funny picture with it. But 340 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: unfortunately I've never seen the picture. 341 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,959 Speaker 1: Somewhere in the possessions of Gabe Trammel apparently lurked a 342 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: photo of Gabe sporting a crown and waving a sword. 343 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: Not a crown or a sword, but the crown and 344 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: the sword. But there's a hiccup here. If someone asks 345 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: you about an urban legend your family was allegedly involved in, 346 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: maybe your tendency would be to joke about it. Oh, sure, 347 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: my grandfather was in the CIA, that sort of thing. 348 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: So we asked Casey, was there any chance Gabe was 349 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: just kidding around. 350 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 4: It's possible. 351 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 2: It seemed too specific to just be a joke. Maybe 352 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 2: he was just pulling my leg because I was asking 353 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 2: these directed questions. It's possible he was joking around or 354 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 2: exaggerating the story. But you know, when you work at 355 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 2: a cafe with a manager, you get a sense of 356 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 2: the way that they speak, and you know they're different tones. 357 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 2: So I was familiar with Gabe's joking tone as well 358 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 2: as his, you know, serious manager boss tones, and I 359 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 2: didn't peg it as a joke. I pegged it as 360 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 2: him telling the truth at the time. Whether or not 361 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: I was correct, who knows. 362 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: To the best of Casey's recollection, he brought up sword 363 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: Quest once or twice more to Gabe, but by this 364 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: point Gabe seemed to have grown reluctant to discuss it 365 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: any further. It wouldn't be an ongoing topic of conversation. 366 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: When I sensed that he put the brakes on the story, 367 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 2: I sensed that it may have been because, oh, this 368 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 2: is actually getting into some stuff that he doesn't want 369 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: to speak about. Out in a public space with other 370 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: people sitting at the bar overhearing him, or other people 371 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 2: working overhearing him. And that was really the end of it. 372 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: When I started digging into it more, I got a 373 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 2: sense that he started realizing I was asking some very 374 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 2: directed questions, and he started to shy away from the 375 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 2: subject a little bit. 376 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 4: There are a. 377 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: Lot of unknowns here. When exactly did Gabe take the 378 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: photo as a child or more recently. 379 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 2: I got the sense that it was fairly recent when 380 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: the photo was taken. Unfortunately, I don't have anything I 381 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 2: can go back to to like pinpoint that it might 382 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: just be my faulty memory. It may have been when 383 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: he was young, it may have been when he was 384 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 2: an adult. I got the sense at the time that 385 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: it was within the last five years or something, so 386 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 2: that would have placed it between two thousand and five 387 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: and twenty ten. 388 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: Gabe had no reason to lie about the photo, nor 389 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: does Casey. He just happened to be in the vicinity 390 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: of Gabe and armed with a little bit of knowledge 391 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: when some wordquest trivia landed in his lap Mark. Gabe 392 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: operated the Aroma location through twenty thirteen and then went 393 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: on to different business pursuits. Casey left around the same time. 394 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: We asked if there were any other employees who may 395 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: have heard the story to corroborate it. Casey gave us 396 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: two names. One doesn't recall anything about it. The other 397 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: former employee answered our request for a comment by asking 398 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: who gave you my name and then never responded again. 399 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 4: This one knows something. I can feel it. It's no use, Tour. 400 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 5: He'd sooner lop off his tongue than reveal his secrets. 401 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 4: Fine by me. Better still, we could lop off his head. 402 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 4: Tor No, fine, then we say he simply did not 403 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 4: respond to a request for comment. 404 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: We did, of course, contact Mark Tremmel. Though he wasn't 405 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: the one who told Casey the story of the prizes, 406 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,360 Speaker 1: it seems likely that he'd know a thing or two 407 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: about it. 408 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 2: Gabe and Mark were quite proud of that fun little 409 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: trivia tidbit that oh yeah, I'm you know, my granddad 410 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: was the Tari guy. And when I asked them about 411 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 2: the artifacts, they did claim to have seen them. I 412 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 2: believe Mark confirmed. I don't remember specifically, but I do 413 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 2: know at the very least that Gabe told me the 414 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 2: story that he has been in the same room with 415 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 2: the artifacts and has had his picture taken with them. 416 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: But Mark didn't respond. The Tremmel cone of silence persisted 417 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: and Gabe, well, we can't ask Gabe. Unfortunately, in twenty sixteen, 418 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: Gabe Tremmeel passed away at the age of thirty two 419 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: while living in New York City. According to the United 420 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: States Attorney's Office in the Southern District of New York, 421 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: a medical doctor and graduate student was convicted of selling 422 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: Gabe Tremmel a lethal dose of fentanyl, a dangerous opioid. 423 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: If there is a photo of Gabe posing with sword 424 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: Quest prizes, we don't know if anyone has it, or 425 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: if anyone knows where it could be. And assuming Jack 426 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: had those prizes circa twenty eleven, Jack's death in twenty 427 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: twelve would have placed them in other hands. Of course, 428 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: this is speculation. We can't say, nor do we say 429 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: the Trammels are in possession of the remaining sword Quest prizes. 430 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: But like the game itself, it's become a part of 431 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: the mythology of Atari and one no Tremmel family member 432 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: seems willing to dispel. They're under no obligation to, of course, 433 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: but it would be a simple way of getting people 434 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: to stop asking you about it. If Jack did keep 435 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: the prizes, Casey believes it would be symbolic a trophy 436 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: representing Jack Tremmel on top of Atari, a pioneer of 437 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: personal computing. 438 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they'd be a hell of a nice keepsake 439 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: of his victory and his battles to become the King 440 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: of Atari. 441 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: If the King of Atari had the treasures, then they 442 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: might wind up where most treasures do, inside the hallowed 443 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: halls of a museum. 444 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 5: We're heading into one of our collection storage areas here 445 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 5: at the museum. 446 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 4: We have a. 447 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 5: Keypad and the security card swape that I needed to 448 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 5: do to get into this area. We're walking through an 449 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 5: area that focuses on our arcade conservation. We're standing in 450 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 5: a room that has an enormous amount of video games 451 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 5: and collections objects. 452 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: We're in Rochester, New York. It's an upstate community known 453 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 1: for its medical university and for pop culture fans for 454 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: being host to the Strong Museum of Play which is 455 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: a massive collection of play things that fills almost four 456 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: hundred thousand square feet and welcomes a half million visitors 457 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: every year. Think of it like the world's biggest toy store, 458 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: only it spans generations. Everything is here original barbie'es, Gi Joe's, 459 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: and of course a deep collection of the electronic toy 460 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: that's dominated for decades, the video game. The Museum is 461 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: in Rochester because Rochester was once the home of Margaret 462 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: Wood very Strong, a collector of toys and dolls and 463 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: a lot of everything, whose collection grew so large her 464 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 1: home became something of a dollhouse. When she died in 465 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, she willed her belongings to a museum 466 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: that eventually became her namesake, The Strong in nineteen eighty two. 467 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: And while the Strong initially exhibited a lot of things, 468 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: it was toys that became the focal point. 469 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 5: And so we're standing in front of this massive television 470 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 5: because we've recreated Home Pong as a massive interactive that 471 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 5: people can play here at the museum. And so I'm 472 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 5: using an oversized knob on a giant console. Oh and 473 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 5: they got me. 474 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: That's Jeremy Saucier. Jeremy is the assistant vice president for 475 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: Interpretation and Electronic Games at the Strong. He has a 476 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: PhD in history from the University of Rochester. Games are 477 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: his relics, his barometer for our shared leisure habits. His 478 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: focus is the International Center for the History of Electronic Games, 479 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: a collection totaling around sixty thousand items and growing all 480 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: the time. This stuff is well loved. You can see 481 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: cigarette burns and handprints on some of the arcade machines, 482 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: the evidence of the gamer who spent countless hours chasing 483 00:28:59,240 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: pac Man. 484 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 5: So just really thousands and thousands. We have the most 485 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 5: comprehensive collection of play things but also video games anywhere 486 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 5: in the world. So you're standing in part of that collection. 487 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 5: But Atari is one of the first companies where this 488 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 5: is what they're doing. They're making video games. You know, 489 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 5: even Nintendo as a playing card company, Kaliko was a 490 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 5: leather company. And so you know, when I think about 491 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 5: Atari today, I think it's a combination of you have 492 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 5: a generation of people who were introduced to video games 493 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 5: through Atari, and I think they understand that on some 494 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 5: level that that was important. And Atari plays an important 495 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 5: role in that They're not the only ones, but they 496 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 5: play a very important role. And you know, just like 497 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 5: you know, you wouldn't have Tesla today if you didn't 498 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 5: have Ford and GM, well, you wouldn't have Sony. You 499 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 5: wouldn't have Microsoft in the Xbox if you didn't have Atari. First. 500 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: The Strong's Atari holdings number well over nine hundred items, consoles, joysticks, games, manuals, 501 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: original art, and naturally the sword Quest titles. But no, 502 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: not the prizes. To get the obvious question out of 503 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: the way. 504 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 5: I mean, I can say for sure that we do 505 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 5: not have them. 506 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: But there are other treasures here. 507 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 5: Because I'm going to handle a couple of objects here 508 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 5: I'm going to put some gloves on. Is that we're 509 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 5: standing in front of a KRT curator's cart that has 510 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 5: a couple of the sword Quest games on it, and 511 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 5: a September October nineteen eighty two issue of Atari Age, 512 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 5: which was a publication that was sent to members of 513 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 5: Atari's clubs with jewels encrusted on them worth many thousands 514 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 5: of dollars gold objects. And so this contest is really 515 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 5: at the height of Atari's power. Some would say it's 516 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 5: at the height of Atari's hubris, because when the contest starts, 517 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 5: it's nineteen eighty two, right, So if we open up, 518 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 5: we're looking at this cover of Atari Age, and so 519 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 5: this is September October of nineteen eighty two, and even 520 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 5: right on the cover is this wonderful artwork that are 521 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 5: showing the characters from the sword Quest games. And if 522 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 5: I open this up, there is a two page spread 523 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 5: promoting this contest. Sword Quest you can win fabulous prizes 524 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 5: by solving the mysteries of four new cartridges. 525 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: Part of the Strong's Atari collection is a lot of paperwork, 526 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: game ideas, design ideas. There's even a map chest full 527 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: of original art. But there's no slip of paper that 528 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: traces where those items went, no invoice, no destroy upon receipts. 529 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: Smoking Gun Atari was a poor curator of its own history. 530 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: The items arrive piecemeal from employees or donors, and while 531 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: there are still items to be inventoried, there's no sign 532 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: any of it holds the clue. 533 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,719 Speaker 5: But also it is just a turn of history like 534 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 5: they could have very easily have been thrown away, and 535 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 5: a lot of this history is gone for the Strong. 536 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: Gaming isn't a commercial endeavor. If they get their hands 537 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: on a rare cartridge or console, or even an original microchip, 538 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: it's cataloged and like a puzzle piece, snapped into place 539 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: wherever it fits in gaming history. And while Jeremy's Landscape 540 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: is pretty vast. Everything from early handheld games to Nintendo 541 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: systems to Sony PlayStations are here. He's definitely aware of 542 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: sword Quest, one of the biggest myths in gaming history, 543 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: treasures that, if they were ever discovered, might one day 544 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: wind up here. 545 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 5: What's fascinating about these prizes, you know, is just there's 546 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 5: so much speculation about it. It's been rumored that one 547 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 5: of them was actually melted down and sold. I mean, 548 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 5: obviously the person who wins it can do what they 549 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 5: want with it. And if I was a college student 550 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 5: trying to pay debt, then I might be hawking my 551 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 5: gold jewelry as well, you know. But as artifacts that 552 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 5: help tell this larger story and represent a time in 553 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 5: video games where you're basically, you know, minting these fantastic 554 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 5: gold artifacts, I think it'd be wonderful to have them, 555 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 5: you know. It almost reminds me of the sort of 556 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 5: Gilded Age. 557 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: Right to Jeremy, the prizes represent something other than mastering 558 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: a difficult video game. They're emblematic of Atari's success, and 559 00:33:58,360 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: maybe they're hubris. 560 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 5: You're these artifacts that kind of represent the height of 561 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 5: the video game industry, the height of Atari that they 562 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 5: would have invested in a contest like this, But Atari 563 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 5: itself cracked. Atari itself crumbled. Though they're coming back now 564 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 5: and they're doing things today. But yes, as a historian, 565 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 5: as curators, we'd obviously love to see some of these things. 566 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: In some ways, Atari is like a fallen civilization, once 567 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: on top of the world, now a distant second to 568 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: the xboxes and immersive gaming world of today. Like any 569 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: other relic, the prizes, were they to surface, could be 570 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: sold for Lewis Checchia amounts of money. It's a problem 571 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: Jeremy runs into when adding to the strongest collection, a 572 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: problem every museum runs into. Sooner or later that Picasso 573 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: may not be available because someone paid a fortune for it. 574 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: So it may be hard to conceive of the prizes 575 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: being on public display one day for all to see. 576 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: That can happen. Collectors can loan out art or collectibles, 577 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: but so far the sword Quest stash has not been 578 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: for public consumption. But it's certainly possible that someone listening 579 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: does know where they are, and maybe at some point 580 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: they'll consider the value of snapping that piece into the 581 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: overall puzzle. 582 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's difficult, you know. On the one hand, 583 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 5: I can see that if these things do exist, whoever 584 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 5: might have them. I mean, there's a chance that they 585 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 5: don't even know that they have these sorts of things. 586 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 5: It really is, you know, that's a possibility too. There's 587 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 5: a community of people who would love to find out 588 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 5: that these things exist, and even more they'd love to 589 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 5: see them. So the argument to me is more I 590 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 5: think along the lines of that these are potentially artifacts 591 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 5: from a community of gamers, a community that's heavily invested 592 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 5: in the history of Atari, in the history of video games, 593 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 5: and so I think the argument is that, you know, 594 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 5: if you possibly can, it'd be great to share that history, 595 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 5: even if it's just acknowledging that they exist, even if 596 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 5: it's acknowledging that something happened to them and that there's 597 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 5: some evidence of that that helps to put the mystery 598 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 5: to rest. 599 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: Today, Atari is in Paris, well sort of. The video 600 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: game company which pioneered home gaming, now has offices in 601 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: New York and France. After changing hands a few times 602 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: since the Jack Tremmel days, it wound up with a 603 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: company named Infograms, a mix of the French words informatique 604 00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: and program. Atari now takes a more circuitous route to 605 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: its branding. A few years ago, they announced plans to 606 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: license the Atari name to backers of a hotel in 607 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: Las Vegas. The Atari Hotel would be a giant, gaudy 608 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,919 Speaker 1: ode to retro gaming, with themed rooms and plenty of joysticks. 609 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: That hasn't broken ground yet. What has materialized is an 610 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: Atari twenty six hundred plus retro console, which was released 611 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: at the end of twenty twenty three and delivers a 612 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,919 Speaker 1: dose of nostalgia. It looks virtually identical to the old 613 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: twenty six hundred, right down to the wood grain finish. 614 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: It can play original Atari cartridges, or you can select 615 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: from some included games on a ten to one cart 616 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: Atari did something else too. In twenty twenty two, they 617 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: released Atari fifty, a software program celebrating the company's fiftieth anniversary, 618 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: part game and part documentary. It included something gamers have 619 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: been waiting for since the nineteen eighties, a fully finished, 620 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: fully playable version of air World, the fourth and never 621 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: released game in the sword Quest series. This isn't the 622 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: original version as envisioned by sword Quest's creator Todd Frye. 623 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 1: It's more of an homage to that idea, but it 624 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: is an official release, and it does make for one 625 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: less missing treasure in this story. But there was no 626 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: fourth comic from DC, and therefore no conclusion to the 627 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: sword Quest saga. That's fitting since the one in the 628 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: real world is still open ended too. Those prizes could 629 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: have been destroyed for their material value decades ago. If 630 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: that's true, then the chalice is the only one that survived, 631 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,919 Speaker 1: and may be all the more valuable for it. There 632 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: are three distinct perspectives here. The collector with deep pockets 633 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: who wants to look at video game treasure in their 634 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: basement trophy room, the archivist who wouldn't mind seeing them 635 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: help to tell the story of gaming's ascendants from a 636 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: seedier side of pop culture to a legitimate art form. 637 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: And a family who may now consider the prizes to 638 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: be a kind of heirloom, unwilling to give the public 639 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: a glimpse treasures that have taken on a more personal meaning. 640 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: All of these are valid. The only thing we can 641 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: say with certainty is that sword Quest is a part 642 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: of a shared cultural history. The contest anticipated the multimedia 643 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: explosion that would arrive in the coming decades, where giant 644 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: conglomerates use all of their assets for one unified sales pitch. 645 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: When Warner Brothers wanted to raise awareness of Barbie, they 646 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: draped all of their reality television in pink. When Warner 647 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: Communications wanted to promote sword Quest, they recruited all of 648 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 1: their companies of that era to the task. Atari the 649 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: Franklin Mint DC comics. It was a radical innovation caught 650 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: in the middle of a transition in gaming that was 651 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: termined for cost. Tor and Tara, the hero and heroine 652 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: of the story, were effectively laid off before their mission 653 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,439 Speaker 1: was complete, and most of their expected rewards are still 654 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: unaccounted for. But there's a reason they call it the 655 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: hero's journey and not the hero's destination, even though it 656 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: was never completed. Without sword Quest, we wouldn't have the 657 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: pioneers of competitive gaming, people like Stephen Bell, Jackie Custer, 658 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: Burt Wardahl, and Michael Rideout. Today's esports stars play for millions. 659 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: They played for some fleeting glory and a cool sword. 660 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: Those prizes may be gone, but their memories remain of 661 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: long hours spent mastering games. Before gaming was truly mainstream, 662 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: sword Quest was something increasingly rare these days, a true original, 663 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: a spark for imagination, decades later, There's still never been 664 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: anything quite like it. 665 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 3: The sword eludes us. Tara, the one who wields it, 666 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 3: will not step forward. 667 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 4: Perhaps they fear harassment or robbery. Perhaps, but can something 668 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 4: be taken that belongs to the people? What do you mean, Torque? 669 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,439 Speaker 3: Someone may be able to put their hands on its hilt, 670 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 3: to keep it under glass, Yet it represents so much more, 671 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 3: a shared history. 672 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 4: Perhaps one day all can see it, perhaps, or perhaps 673 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 4: it's gone forever. What now, sister, What of our story? 674 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:33,760 Speaker 3: Now? 675 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 4: Now we find tyrann Us and vanquish him another way, 676 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 4: But how now we write our own ending? Come on, 677 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 4: let's go adventuring. 678 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: The Legend of sword Quest is a production of iHeart 679 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: Podcasts and School of Humans. This episode was written by 680 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: Jake Rawson and hosted by Jamie Loftus producers are Miranda 681 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: Hawkins and Josh Fisher. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, L. C. Crowley, 682 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: Brandon Barr, and Jason English. 683 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,399 Speaker 4: Our show editor is Mary Doo. 684 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,879 Speaker 1: Audio engineering by Graham Gibson, Research and fact checking by 685 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,720 Speaker 1: Austin Thompson and Jake Rosson. 686 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 4: Original score by Jesse Niswanger. This episode was sound designed 687 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 4: by Josh Fisher. 688 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: Mixing and mastering by Miranda Hawkins. Show logo by Lucy Quintonia. 689 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: Voices in this episode are provided by Haley Ellman and 690 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: Graham Parker.