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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Become a premium subscriber today at

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Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Hi, welcome to Breaking Points. This is

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Speaker 1: not counterpoints. You're not being deceived, right, So I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm Ryan Graham. I'm filling in for Sager on this side.

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Speaker 1: This is crystal ball. This is this is crystal ball

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Speaker 1: over here. I've been sharpening my Antiweed talking points, gonna

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Speaker 1: fill in for Sager. I would love to hear you

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Speaker 1: argue against Weed. I love to hear it. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people are like feeling high right now. They're like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, it just said that's Crystal and Saga,

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Speaker 1: and that's definitely not Crystal and Saga. We have a

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Speaker 1: big show to get through today and we're going to

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Speaker 1: start with China. So the protests in China, are yielding

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Speaker 1: significant results. The Chinese government is saying that it's going

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Speaker 1: to be rolling back it's zero COVID policy. If you

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Speaker 1: could put up a one here, and also we can

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Speaker 1: promise that no digital picket lines were crossed in the

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Speaker 1: cropping of this New York Times article because it was

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Speaker 1: done yesterday before the Times walk out. They did walk out,

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Speaker 1: right like today. Is there a digital strike? Yeah, although

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Speaker 1: admittedly I would that's a digital picket line. I would

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Speaker 1: probably oh wait, if I'm if I'm representing Sager, he

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Speaker 1: would have walked right across that picket line, right. Well, No,

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Speaker 1: Sager is pro worker, but is hell yeah, but you

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Speaker 1: can be a pro worker without this particular guild. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you pick and choose your unions. Now, Solidarity says you

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Speaker 1: got to support any union it does. It does so anyway.

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Speaker 1: So as the New York Times and many others are

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Speaker 1: reporting that Chairman Chijing Ping, under pressure, is announcing that

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Speaker 1: he's softening some of his zero COVID regulations. This comes

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Speaker 1: after protests had broken out around a Fox con factory then,

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Speaker 1: but also spread all across the country, So there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of attempt to kind of minimize it to

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Speaker 1: a labor dispute between the workers and Fox con one

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Speaker 1: that revolved partly around pay and significantly around conditions. Like

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Speaker 1: the workers there were saying that they were that, hey,

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Speaker 1: you say you've got the zero COVID police, but were

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Speaker 1: actually it's these aren't completely safe conditions. All the same time,

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Speaker 1: there are these Drugconian rules being put into place where

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Speaker 1: you're locking workers in their dorms and endlessly you know,

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Speaker 1: just handing kind of noodles through the door. Like the

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Speaker 1: recent way of protest started because Wi your Muslims are

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Speaker 1: actually forcibly locked into a building that caught fire and

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Speaker 1: ten of them died at least ten, right, And so

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Speaker 1: this has been a huge part of China zero COVID policy,

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Speaker 1: and we've seen some striking videos over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of years literally of buildings being sealed when there are breaks,

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Speaker 1: when there are outbreaks, and you know, it seemed like

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Speaker 1: the dam was starting to open up. It was really

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Speaker 1: like this the foundation was being cracked. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: it seems that that's also true. Now. An interesting element

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Speaker 1: of this is that there's a question of whether this

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Speaker 1: is a response to the protests or response to the

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Speaker 1: business interests that have been hampered by the protests. The

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Speaker 1: reason I think is the protests is that that's the

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Speaker 1: much more proximate event. The business interests have been getting

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Speaker 1: hurt by this. So actually, I mean there's two sides

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Speaker 1: to it. On the one hand, where zero COVID has

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Speaker 1: been successful, it has allowed entire cities and regions to

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Speaker 1: operate like New Zealand was like with no COVID, like

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Speaker 1: actually zero COVID, and so in those cities it was

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Speaker 1: actually good for business because everybody's just going about business

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Speaker 1: as completely as usual. But then if a couple COVID

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Speaker 1: cases would come in there, then the entire thing would

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Speaker 1: get locked down and you'd see entire section of sections

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Speaker 1: of the economy and then the global economy kind of

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Speaker 1: grind to a halt. And you were seeing that in

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Speaker 1: fits and spurts over the last two years, and it

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Speaker 1: didn't persuade she to change course, whereas at the Fifth

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Speaker 1: Party Congress he again reaffirmed his support for zero COVID,

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Speaker 1: and since then, the strikes I think really rocked the country.

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Speaker 1: And I think it was because they turned from kind

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Speaker 1: of issue focused ones to party and government focused ones.

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Speaker 1: You started seeing for the first time a lot of

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Speaker 1: down with the CCP, down with she. China historically since Tieneman,

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Speaker 1: let's say, has has developed what I've seen people call

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Speaker 1: it sounds like an oxymoron, but it's not quite what

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Speaker 1: they call responsive authoritarianism. What that means is you don't

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Speaker 1: get any say in the way that this country has

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Speaker 1: run democratically. This is an authoritarian government. We're the authority.

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Speaker 1: We tell you what's up, but we're going to allow

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Speaker 1: some protests. And so if you don't like the construction

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Speaker 1: of a mall in this particular part of your town,

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Speaker 1: you could protest that, and Chinese do like those types

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Speaker 1: of protests are common around the country and often very cleverly.

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Speaker 1: What the Chinese government will then do is say, you

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Speaker 1: know what, we're with you protesters, and we're sacking the

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Speaker 1: local official here, and they'll make a scapegoat of a

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Speaker 1: local party apparatric. They'll and they'll make some reforms around

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Speaker 1: that protest, and then then they might punish the person

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Speaker 1: that organize the protests, just to show that, just to

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Speaker 1: keep people confused about, you know, where the lines are

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Speaker 1: what you're able to do. So that's why they call

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Speaker 1: it responsive authoritarianism, which is kind of ridiculous, but also like,

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Speaker 1: if we're going to study authoritarianism, we should identify the

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Speaker 1: different flavors of it. This became different. This was like,

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Speaker 1: we're not trying to get you to like stop a

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Speaker 1: damn project. We want the entire government to fall. And

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Speaker 1: so at that point, you can either kind of violently

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Speaker 1: crack down around the country, which they did some of.

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Speaker 1: You can rout up all of the people that you

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Speaker 1: catch in your mass surveillance, which they did some of too,

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Speaker 1: but then you can also kind of give a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so Chi Jinping had just doubled down on this. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned that he was just re elected by the Party

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Speaker 1: of Congress to a third term just back in October,

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Speaker 1: and it was a show of force. It wasn't doubling

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Speaker 1: down on zero COVID in particular. And now the Guardians

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Speaker 1: reporting last week road in rail shipments in China dropped

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Speaker 1: by thirty six percent. Chinese shipping to the US has

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Speaker 1: continued to decline and is down thirty four percent compared

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Speaker 1: with earlier. Just this year, car manufacturers are seeing a

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Speaker 1: shortage of supply from China. This is like Apple was

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Speaker 1: the really big case study because of what happened at

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Speaker 1: the fox complant in central China, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks saw that. There was an employee who described it

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Speaker 1: to CNN tragically is quote a river of blood. And

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Speaker 1: there were videos that made managed to escape the country

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Speaker 1: of people being beaten just for protesting the zero COVID

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Speaker 1: policy in fox CON's plan. That is the number one

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Speaker 1: supplier of iPhone parts, and that has caused a huge

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Speaker 1: problem with Apple's holiday sales. It's like a thirty percent

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Speaker 1: decline and iPhone supply something to that extent right now.

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Speaker 1: And Apple has had this really friendly, long standing relationship

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Speaker 1: with China. And so to your point, Ryan, is it

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Speaker 1: the case that it's it's the business interest being impacted

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Speaker 1: by the protests, So protests of zero COVID, this lack

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Speaker 1: of just sort of going along with it, saying it's

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Speaker 1: going to end at some point. It's going to end

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Speaker 1: at some point. Well, now, the Chinese economy is really bad.

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Speaker 1: People have been enduring these waves of lockdowns for a

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Speaker 1: couple of years. Xi Jinping has doubled down on it,

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Speaker 1: and so then you see this bubble to the surface,

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Speaker 1: and Xi Jinping realizes the supply chains that come out

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Speaker 1: of China that he has benefited from, profited from, and

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Speaker 1: has tried to use to stabilize his authority and society.

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Speaker 1: That's if you put a crack in that foundation, then

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Speaker 1: I think it all starts to crumble. It's sort of

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Speaker 1: a house of cards. If the supply chain, if having

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Speaker 1: that much control over sort of the global supply chain

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Speaker 1: is the foundation, then you start to see problems. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's where the crack started to grow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it cuts to the foundations of the social contract

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Speaker 1: that the CCP has with the Chinese population, which is

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Speaker 1: we're going to oversee the greatest economic expansion in world history.

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Speaker 1: We're going to pull a half a billion people out

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Speaker 1: of poverty. We're going to do some of it by

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Speaker 1: tinkering with poverty statistics, but we are genuinely going to

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Speaker 1: transform this country. You compare what China looked like in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties to what it looks like today. It's

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Speaker 1: you know, it outpaced any type of industrialism, industrialization or

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Speaker 1: modernization every the cities for sure in world history, and

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Speaker 1: even and even in a lot of the royal areas,

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Speaker 1: they're starting to get some of the basic comforts of

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Speaker 1: civilization that place. Let's say, like royal areas of Russia

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Speaker 1: don't have right now, and so keeping a kind of

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Speaker 1: rural population that is seeing massive economic growth happy is

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Speaker 1: a little different than now that you have this significant

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Speaker 1: middle class population in China which has which is growing

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Speaker 1: up with expectations of things continuing to get better. That

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Speaker 1: might sound very familiar here to the United States. You know,

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Speaker 1: every generation of the United States after World War Two

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Speaker 1: felt like, all right, things are going to be better

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Speaker 1: for my kids, and things are going to be better

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Speaker 1: for their kids. And when people stopped having that faith,

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Speaker 1: that's when you started seeing a lot of discontent here

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Speaker 1: in the United States. And so I think she is

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Speaker 1: very nervous about the potential of that to then feed

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Speaker 1: into the unrest and actually the sun take it for

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Speaker 1: what it's worth. It's just tabloid. But you've seen other

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Speaker 1: reports like this coming from people who are claiming some

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Speaker 1: connection and can put to the uh, you know, to

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Speaker 1: the to the Communist Party orbit saying that you know,

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Speaker 1: she is at risk here is significantly at risk like

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Speaker 1: this is. And this is coming just weeks after people

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Speaker 1: talked about him as you know, boss for life, that

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Speaker 1: he was going to run run China. You know on

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Speaker 1: as long as he wanted, and now all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden you have people speculating that because of all of

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Speaker 1: the turmoil, who knows. Now, I'm curious for your for

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Speaker 1: your take on this. Modelers, epidemiological modelers, and we can

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Speaker 1: put up a three are estimating that if the winter

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Speaker 1: wave hits and you have rapidly eased COVID restrictions, you

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Speaker 1: could see up to up to a million deaths. They

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Speaker 1: talked about some twenty thousand a day or something, and

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Speaker 1: in three major cities. A significant part of this is

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Speaker 1: on she because if you were going to do a

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Speaker 1: zero COVID policy while at the same time preparing your

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Speaker 1: population to eat out of a zero COVID policy into

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Speaker 1: a post COVID zero world, then the civil liberties restrictions

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Speaker 1: that are so draconian welding people in their house, taking

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Speaker 1: toddlers away from their kids would not be justified. But

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Speaker 1: you could at least see the logic behind it, like

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Speaker 1: we're going to lock this down while we get ready

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Speaker 1: for the next phase. They didn't do the get ready

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Speaker 1: for the next phase part. Vaccine uptake among even the

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Speaker 1: elderly is trash, which is I can't understand that how

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Speaker 1: do they have the authority to weld somebody into their apartment,

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Speaker 1: but they can't figure out how to get old people

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Speaker 1: to take the job. And their hospital situation, their public

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Speaker 1: health situation, contact tracing, like the basics are not set

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Speaker 1: up for a wave of the type that they might

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Speaker 1: get if they significantly relax zero COVID. Yeah, And the

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Speaker 1: other thing is they have from what we know, I

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Speaker 1: mean again, a model like that is really difficult for

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Speaker 1: me because there's so much we don't know about the

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Speaker 1: Chinese population in COVID. What we have an inkling of

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Speaker 1: is that immunity is lower and that the vaccine is

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Speaker 1: slightly less effective, and so yeah, I don't doubt that

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Speaker 1: they're older. But at the same time, we have seen

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Speaker 1: so these are like very draconian lockdown policies, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know that we have a perfect apples to apples

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Speaker 1: of what we experienced here. That said, we're even seeing

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Speaker 1: this being implemented unevenly already. So this is from CNN.

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Speaker 1: In Beijing, authorities on Wednesday set of Health code showing

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Speaker 1: a negative COVID nineteen tests would still be required for

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Speaker 1: dining in at restaurants or entering some entertainment venues, which

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Speaker 1: is in conflict with the National guidelines that were released

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday, which was it was a ten point plan,

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Speaker 1: keeps some some rescript some of the rescript restrictions, but

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Speaker 1: gets rid of things like mass testing and allowing people

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Speaker 1: if you have a positive case, to quarantine at home

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Speaker 1: rather than at work. And again, some of the images

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Speaker 1: from the Fox con factory where people were forced to

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Speaker 1: live between their shifts were I mean, it was squalid.

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Speaker 1: That's that's at best squalid. So this is all hard

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Speaker 1: to it. It's hard to actually totally know what's happening

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Speaker 1: in China, but we do know at the very least,

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Speaker 1: this is a dramatic pivot, and we know that the

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Speaker 1: economic implications for the United States and for China, for

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Speaker 1: Europe and for China are on aligne. And the way

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Speaker 1: that this progresses could really have an effect on the

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Speaker 1: supply chains. It could, yeah, yes. And also if if

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Speaker 1: they're not careful, will will will lead to as they described,

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Speaker 1: a wave of death because they're not they're not prepared

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Speaker 1: for it like this, this this could be done in

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Speaker 1: a responsible and safe ways or safe as possible. It's

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Speaker 1: still a pandemic option, but it doesn't seem like that,

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Speaker 1: and there might have been good options in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: but the Chinese government didn't do it, And that goes

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Speaker 1: back to that term responsible authoritarianism. Responsiveness is relative, like

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Speaker 1: a genuinely responsive government would would be able to adapt

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Speaker 1: to public to problem pressure faster and to be and

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Speaker 1: to be able to then be willing and would be

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Speaker 1: willing to if it was truly responsive, right, literally responsive, right,

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Speaker 1: actually responsive. Yeah, speaking of China, let's move on to

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk. Tesla's surely will be impacted by what we

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Speaker 1: just talked about. Oh, yes, a big factory over in Luhan,

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk. If we could put up the first be one, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the b one. Here some tweets from Matt Taibi, who

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Speaker 1: has obviously been going through the so called Twitter files

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Speaker 1: since last week, and this again the Twitter files have

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Speaker 1: Twitter completely divided, as the media completely divided, with so

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Speaker 1: many folks saying this is nothing, this is Matt Tayibe

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Speaker 1: totally over hyping this information and acting. I saw one

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Speaker 1: tweet saying basically, this was the right's version of Russia Gate.

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Speaker 1: And of course it's not just the right that's concerned

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Speaker 1: about this, and it's not anywhere near the massive conspiracy

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Speaker 1: that Russia Gate was. It's indeed an extremely important story.

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Speaker 1: Now what's important about it is that it does confirm

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Speaker 1: a lot of what people suspected. So it's not entirely

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Speaker 1: new so much as it is filling in the background

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Speaker 1: of what a lot of people like the broad contours.

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Speaker 1: I think we're understood and we're known when it came

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Speaker 1: to Twitter suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop story in

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Speaker 1: October of twenty twenty, the New York Post story, which

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Speaker 1: if you remember, you couldn't even direct message to somebody

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Speaker 1: the day that it came out. If you tried to

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Speaker 1: direct message it to a friend, you literally couldn't do that.

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Speaker 1: So it's now become clear, as Tayebi reported yesterday that

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Speaker 1: Jim Baker, who what does Taybe describe him as something

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Speaker 1: of a zeelig Russia Gate who went from the FBI

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Speaker 1: after overseeing Russi collusion, goes from the FBI. He was

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Speaker 1: involved in the Alpha Bank hoax, which the Intercept at

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Speaker 1: the time I think it was Leefong had great debunking

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Speaker 1: of while the rest of the media was taking the

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Speaker 1: bank that the Trump campaign had a direct link to

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Speaker 1: the Russian Alpha Bank, which was supposed to be kind

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Speaker 1: of a smoking gun showing the collusion. It made absolutely

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Speaker 1: no sense, like they had set some server up in

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Speaker 1: the Trump organization that was like sending secret messages back

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Speaker 1: to MOTSCA or something. It was full blown like tenfoil

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Speaker 1: hat then, and it was being repeated by media outlet

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Speaker 1: after media outlet. But it turned out to not be true,

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Speaker 1: and Jim Baker was involved in I believe he set

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Speaker 1: up the meeting where Michael Sussman tried to plant that story.

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Speaker 1: And turns out this is the news that Taybi broke.

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Speaker 1: Jim Baker was overseeing the release of the Twitter files

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Speaker 1: without the knowledge of new CEO Elon Musk and Matt

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Speaker 1: Tybee and Barry Weiss. I guess uncovered this as they

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Speaker 1: were looking through the files. It said Jim, Jim Hooton

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Speaker 1: like Baker, Oh that guy, And so yeah, it turned

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Speaker 1: out that's what was going on here. Let's put up

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Speaker 1: B two. Jack Dorsey, former CEO, gets it on it

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Speaker 1: and he says, if the goal is transparency to build trust,

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Speaker 1: why not just release everything without filter and let people

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Speaker 1: judge for themselves, including all discussions around curt and future actions.

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Speaker 1: Make everything public now, and Elon Musk replied to at

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Speaker 1: Jack and said, most important data was hidden from you two,

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Speaker 1: and some may have been deleted, but everything we find

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Speaker 1: will be released. That is key because it means what

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Speaker 1: we have been learning from the Twitter files has gone

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Speaker 1: through this filter of somebody who's mouth feast was motivated. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean even what we have seen, I think made

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Speaker 1: Jim Baker already look bad that he was overseeing basically

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Speaker 1: an FBI and New Remember even Joe Biden cited that

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Speaker 1: fifty former intelligence officials said the last top story in

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Speaker 1: the New York Post had all of the hallmarks of

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Speaker 1: Russian disinformation. He cited that in a debate, and the

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Speaker 1: Bakers on that letter, that's a good question, that's a

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Speaker 1: really good question. We should look at it and weird

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Speaker 1: right now. Not shocking, Yeah, that wouldn't be shocking at all.

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Speaker 1: But the point is he's overseeing this at the time,

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Speaker 1: and Twitter decides to side with the intelligence community and say,

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Speaker 1: because this looks like Russian disinformation, you can't even direct

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Speaker 1: message it, let alone post it on our platform. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And and here comes Jim Baker once again. Filtering and

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Speaker 1: per Elon Musk's tweet actually potentially hiding and deleting evidence

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Speaker 1: of Malfeason's on the part of Twitter potentially though we

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Speaker 1: needn't we need we need to see the receipts for Elon,

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Speaker 1: because I'm reminded of just a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: he created an entire news cycle around the idea that

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Speaker 1: the app store, that Apple's app store was going to

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Speaker 1: take Twitter off for x y y yes, because they

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Speaker 1: don't like free speech or whatever. And then he visits

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Speaker 1: with Tim Tim cooked Tim Apple over at Apple, and

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Speaker 1: that was wrong. Like, the most generous interpretation is that

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Speaker 1: it was a miscommunication and that there was some might

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Speaker 1: have been some automated message that that Elon misk Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk misinterpreted. That's that's being extraordinarily generous. So he spun

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Speaker 1: this up. Now, if if you are a Twitter employee,

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Speaker 1: a Twitter executive who oversaw a policy that the incoming

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Speaker 1: leadership doesn't like, you are motivated to cover up what

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Speaker 1: your role in that was, Like that's we don't know

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Speaker 1: that they did that, but that that is that that

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Speaker 1: clearly aligns the incentives against transparency, and so you also

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Speaker 1: certainly should have somebody who wasn't involved in the original

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Speaker 1: decision making vetting those documents. And I like Jack's point,

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Speaker 1: why vet them at all? If you want to be transparent,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can scrub people's phone numbers, but you know,

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Speaker 1: published publish everything that we'll forget, like like wiki leak style.

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Speaker 1: I just wiki leaks, just put it all up. And

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Speaker 1: that's not how corporations tend to behave. And so they're

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Speaker 1: running up against all sorts of send Jim Baker fishing

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Speaker 1: link right, see what happens. Change his password. I'm kidding.

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Speaker 1: Jim Baker did not sign on to the letter from

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Speaker 1: the fifty former intelligence officials, but even more powerful Jim's

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Speaker 1: like Jim Clapper Michael signed it. Of course. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: this is this is an important story because we've also

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Speaker 1: learned Yoel Roth, who was clashed with the Aunonamascus, now

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Speaker 1: out of Twitter, had been meeting with the federal law

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Speaker 1: enforcement agencies in the election year, and ultimately again we'd

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Speaker 1: heard from Mark Zuckerberg that he'd had conversations with the

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Speaker 1: FBI who said, basically, be on alert. What we know

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Speaker 1: is not that it was specific to the Hunter Biden story.

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Speaker 1: But before the Biden laptop story dropped, they said be

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Speaker 1: on alert for anything that could be Russian disinformation. The

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Speaker 1: New York Post story drops, and the former intelligence officials,

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Speaker 1: fifty of them, come out and say, this looks like

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Speaker 1: Russian intelligence. It turned out, of course that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: Multiple news outlets have verified the contents of the laptop,

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Speaker 1: not the entire contents of the laptop, but much of

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Speaker 1: the contents of the laptop, and much of the damning

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Speaker 1: contents of the laptop that show again potential really compromise

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Speaker 1: of potentially compromising relationships, no not even potentially very compromising

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Speaker 1: relationships between Hunter Biden and business interests in other countries,

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Speaker 1: including China, and you can add others to the list.

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Speaker 1: Obviously everybody knows about the high profile example of Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't stop there. There's also like Mexico. There's

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff on there, and that's what he

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Speaker 1: was doing when he was lobbying. And meanwhile, we have

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Speaker 1: discovered some speech and assembly rights that Elon Musk is

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Speaker 1: less supportive of, and that is the janitors at Twitter

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Speaker 1: headquarters who went on strike protesting for better working conditions. Recently,

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Speaker 1: he responded by ending the contract with the striking janitors done,

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Speaker 1: just just struck him down. We have and we have

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Speaker 1: an element for that, right. Oh yeah, that's the that's

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Speaker 1: the last one, actually the last two before you can

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Speaker 1: actually see it before and five. It's how it started,

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Speaker 1: how it's going. They form a picket line, Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: just terminates them. We do want to move. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, Elon Musk sort of famously anti union, and

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Speaker 1: so he's coming into a unionized workplace, but he's famously

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Speaker 1: not allowed Tessa workers to union, right, and so that

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Speaker 1: creates it's a it's obviously ah culture clash for Silicon

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Speaker 1: Valley and many many layers, and this is obviously one

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Speaker 1: of them. And I think he knows that he's aware

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Speaker 1: of that and wants to be especially in these early

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Speaker 1: days that have been frenzied and chaotic to say the least.

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Speaker 1: He wants to make an example and to put his

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Speaker 1: stamp on the company as the eyes of the world

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Speaker 1: are sort of watching. And in the Climate Bill, he

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Speaker 1: famously fought uh fought legislation that would have given subsidies

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Speaker 1: to unionize electric vehicle companies, and with Joe Manson's help,

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Speaker 1: he was able to get that get that provision out

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Speaker 1: so that all companies can get them. Uh, we do

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Speaker 1: have some breaking news and some really good news that

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Speaker 1: we want to that we want to move to next.

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Speaker 1: Britney Griner has been released from prison in Russia. How

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Speaker 1: I can't remember how She's been in for months months

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Speaker 1: at this point. She's the w n B A basketball

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Speaker 1: star since February. Since February, so yeah, nearly a year.

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Speaker 1: Who was leaving the like she had played some games

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Speaker 1: in Russia, was leaving the country. She's in line and

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Speaker 1: at customs, they picked they pick up cartridge of weed, yeah,

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Speaker 1: vape oil, some weed vape oil, which is obviously for

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Speaker 1: personal use, and they charge her with like traffic and distribution.

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Speaker 1: We'll we do that often here in the United States,

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Speaker 1: that where you know, if somebody is a you know,

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Speaker 1: a daily user of something that they're going to have

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Speaker 1: like a week supply or a two week supply with them,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see that and we'll say, well, that's trafficking,

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Speaker 1: that's intent to distribute. Russia did the same thing to her,

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Speaker 1: recognizing the geopolitical value of taking you know, what amounted

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Speaker 1: to an American hostage, but moving her through the Russian

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Speaker 1: criminal justice system and saying, hey, you know, just this

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Speaker 1: is this is our system is going to work it out.

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Speaker 1: She didn't have a week supply. I mean I think

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Speaker 1: she had a very I think she had a very

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Speaker 1: small small well, you know, a week supply can be

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Speaker 1: pretty small too. Well. Sure, but like this is obviously

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00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: obviously for personal use, yes, yes, and so according to

430
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: NBC News, Brittney Grinder's wife, Sheryl Griner, was in the

431
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,239
Speaker 1: Oval office with Biden and the two were able to

432
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: speak with her by phone that it's according to a

433
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: senior White House official reported by Kyle Griffin here on

434
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: NBC News, she was facing more than a ten year

435
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: sentence and it was had been and had recently been

436
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: transferred to kind of a long term prison like a

437
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: penal colony. Yeah, just an absolute nightmare situation like Midnight

438
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: Express like all over again. So yeah, this is breaking. Like,

439
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: as we are talking about the mid Unexpress, that character

440
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: was actually trafficking like significant amounts of heroin like this

441
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: this is nothing right, like a little bit of vaping.

442
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: And so yeah, as we were talking, the White House

443
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: posted a tweet where President Biden and Vice President Harris

444
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: are in the Oval office with Brittany Grinder's wife and

445
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: President Biden says, or whoever tweeted this, says moments ago,

446
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: I spoke to Brittany Grinder. She is safe, she is

447
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: on a plane, she is on her way home. This

448
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: is a deal that was negotiated with the release of

449
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: an arms dealer. Oh Boot, Victor Boot. Victor Boot, that's right,

450
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: Victor Boot, known as quote the merchant of Death. So

451
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: the swap of him for Griner had been sort of

452
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: in the works or part of this conversation since at

453
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: least May, is what we know, and the Biden administration

454
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: here obviously was able to negotiate that he was in

455
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: the middle. I'm reading from Fox News right now of

456
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: a twenty five year sentence in federal prison after he

457
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: was convicted of conspiracy to kill Americans relating to the

458
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: support of a Columbian terrorist organization. Yeah, and I know

459
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: a prisoner who was held with Victor Boot who's been

460
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: corresponding with me about this, and he said that Boot

461
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: has been credit Martin Gottisfeld, who for this news. Boot

462
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: has been in extraordinarily bad health in the CMU. I

463
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: think is been in terre haute which is a maximum

464
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: security prison in which you know, communications are heavily heavily

465
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: managed and limited. Oh he's the Lord of War. Yeah,

466
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: so he's Yeah, he's an arms He's this global globe

467
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: trotting arms dealer who was kind of blown up into

468
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: this larger than life type of figure. But when you

469
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: when you look into him a little more, he's just

470
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: kind of like a run of the mill arms dealer.

471
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: That's that like would would start would just your neighborhood arms,

472
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: just neighborhood arms? That would the boy next door? Is that? Would?

473
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: You know? That would service conflicts both and both sometimes

474
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: both sides of conflicts that the the like military industrial

475
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: complex or like the legitimate the legitimate above board arms

476
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: suppliers were either legally or politically blocked from supporting so

477
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: he would be used by intelligence services all over the world,

478
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: but also by uh you know, rebels, by government forces.

479
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: But but like like I said, he's like he was

480
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: blown up into mythical proportions and really he's just a

481
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: just an arms dealer, and he's failing health. And in

482
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: failing health, I mean, maybe we'll go back to dealing arms.

483
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: But it's not like it's not like if you take

484
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: an arms dealer out of the sky all of a sudden,

485
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: like nobody has any way of moving arms, Like somebody

486
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: else is going to move the arms. So like if

487
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody's going to criticize the Biden

488
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: administration for giving up this guy, I don't think that

489
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: allowing Victor boot back into the world actually makes the

490
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: world less safe. I think we're already an extraordinarily unsafe

491
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: world with unchecked arms flowing all flowing across borders, and

492
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: this isn't gonna make it like that that's happening any faster,

493
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: especially if the reports of his health ailments are are

494
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: what they are, makes it even harder to kind of

495
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: fly into these remote locations and make make you make

496
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: your little arms deals. The media's coverage of Brittain Grinder's

497
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: situation was this was a huge story throughout the last year,

498
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: I mean throughout the last ten months. It's been a

499
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: huge focus of media attention. So just on a political level,

500
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: a big win for the Biden administration. Again, I'm sure,

501
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure that he will get criticized for this, but

502
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: at least from the public relations perspective, you can see

503
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: in the initial tweet from the White House where you

504
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: have President Biden hugging Britney Grant's wife and you're saying

505
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: we're bringing her home for Christmas, et cetera, et cetera.

506
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: They feel like that's a big win. Yeah, it warms

507
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: my heart like it's great, Like it's it was just

508
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: tragic to think of somebody just completely innocent. So what

509
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: she smoke a little vape? Like who cares for her? Mcputin? Yeah,

510
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin and he doesn't need that guy do. Like,

511
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: it just kills me to see like civilians caught up

512
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: in this in this stuff, to think of her like

513
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: going to bed and waking up every morning in a

514
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: penal colony for utterly no reason. So if it takes

515
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: a sick Victor boot going to some villa some where

516
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: in Russia and living out his days there, or you know,

517
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: Victor boot also has more enemies around the world, I'm

518
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: sure he might have been safer in some ways. He

519
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: really might have been. That's CMU. So we'll, you know,

520
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: we'll see how post prison life is for Victor Boote.

521
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: I wouldn't guarantee that it's going to be just the

522
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: day at the beach so you were sort of casual

523
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: about it. But I think your piece of reporting from

524
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: the the person you're corresponding with is really critical. That

525
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: he's in poor health. I haven't seen that in the

526
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: national media reporting as international press, as we've just been

527
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: discussing this. It's breaking, of course, but I hadn't seen

528
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: that yet. That seems to be a pretty critical piece

529
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: of this possible. Yeah, and that was reported to me

530
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: by his name is Martin gotdisfeld. He is, he's serving

531
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: a cent. He's a hacker accused of being a member

532
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: of anonymous who who went after Boston Children's Hospital during

533
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: one of their fundraising drives in order in order to

534
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: protest the way that they were that they were treating

535
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: a young girl, which so you can google. Martin Gott

536
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: has felt and read up on on the on the

537
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: case that he was protesting, and so he's and he was,

538
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: you know, he was offered a plea that which would

539
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: have had him out of prison by now. He refused

540
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: it because he argued, I wasn't the criminal here of

541
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: Boston Children's Hospital is the one was doing wrong. I

542
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: was trying to raise raise awareness for this. Uh. He

543
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: had hoped that Trump would would pardon him. Uh if

544
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: if he was appealing now to to Trump with children's hospitals, uh,

545
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: less popular among the right, maybe he would have done better.

546
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, saying that you hack the children's

547
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: hospital isn't isn't like a great first line when you're

548
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: looking for a commutation or a pardon. So in any event,

549
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: he's he's serving out his time in a in a

550
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: correct in a in a CMU, a communications management unit. Uh.

551
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: He was in the same one as Uh he was

552
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: as Victor Boot. He was also with Choppo. He wrote

553
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: a piece for the Intercept about his time with Choppo

554
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: in the Brooklyn I guess I think it was the

555
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Federal Prison there. I read that. Yes, Well, let's

556
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: move on to the immigration news. This week, it was

557
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: reported first in the Washington Post that Senators Kirsten Cinema

558
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: and Tom Tillis so that's a Democrat and Republican, respectively,

559
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: have been kicking around a framework for a bipartisan im

560
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: agration deal, which comes at a pretty crucial time for

561
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: the Biden administration because Title forty two is set to expire,

562
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: which is a big deal on both the left and

563
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: the right. Title forty two is that Trump era policy

564
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: that allowed the United States at the border to turn

565
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: away people seeking asylum without a chance to enter the

566
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: United States because of the pandemic and because of the

567
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: health concerns related to the pandemic. Now, the loose framework

568
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: that is being circulated by a Senators Cinema and Tillis

569
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: would include a path way to citizenship for the dreamers.

570
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: That's two million of them. And then there's roughly this

571
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: is per axius twenty five to forty billion dollars in

572
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: increased funding for border patrol. That is a huge range.

573
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure that's upful of the twenty five

574
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: to forty billion dollars, which would include a commitment to

575
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: hiring more agents and increasing their pay. It would extend

576
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: Title forty two until there's a formal plan in place

577
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: to stop an expected surge of migrants at the border. Again,

578
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: that's per Axios. And then the last bullet point and

579
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: the Axious report. If you're watching you can see it

580
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: is just this is my favorite in overhaul of the

581
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: asylum system to prevent abuse of the law and the

582
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: asylum system. To just say it's an overhaul of the

583
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: asylum system. To prevent a peace of the law. All

584
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: of this, of all of those different bullet points. You

585
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: can have a highly funded border patrol, you can have

586
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: Title forty two, you can give the dreamers a pathway

587
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: to citizenship. If you don't overhaul the asylum system, this

588
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: will mean absolutely nothing. And that's what's I think been

589
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: really misunderstood about Title forty two, which sounds cruel denying

590
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: anybody entrance into the United States when they're claiming asylum,

591
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: which means they're seeking refugee status. A lot of people

592
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: have still been able to get asylum through different bureaucratic

593
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: channels over the course of the pandemic. That has actually

594
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: not stopped it. But what Title forty two, as it

595
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: has been sort of floated, it's gonna go. It's been

596
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: working its way through the court systems. What that does

597
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: is bring more migrants onto the sort of pathway up

598
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: through South and Central America into Mexico because cartels are

599
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: telling them there's an open disinformation campaign, a coordinated disinformation

600
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: campaign by cartels who use the who use the title

601
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: forty two basically as bait, as the potential end of

602
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: Title forty two is bait, and they use these other

603
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: bureaucratic channels that the United States government negotiates in different

604
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: parts of Mexico's completely uneven. Depending on where you are

605
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: at the border. You could be in Sijuana, you could

606
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 1: be in Mona Moros or Reinosa, and who's getting through

607
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: and why is totally different, and sometimes there's absolutely no

608
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: rhyme or reason for it. People get different papers. I've

609
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: looked at some of the papers and these border facilities,

610
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,919
Speaker 1: it just pati Migrants will get totally different papers from

611
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: each other, with different court dates, et cetera, et cetera.

612
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: So we've seen a huge surgeon and immigration this year.

613
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: We've seen a huge surgeon illegal immigration. There's a stunning

614
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: number of known god aways. The Biden's policy, Biden Administration's

615
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: policy is failing. They're nervous about the end of Title

616
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: forty two because they know that it's going to cause

617
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: an influx. There's already an influx because people are getting

618
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: through these different bureaucratic channels. Sometimes it takes staying and

619
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: sleeping in the streets in the border town for a

620
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: little bit to be able to hire a lawyer. And

621
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: as long as you can hire a lawyer, that's the

622
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: sort of sentiment among migrants, because it's correct. You can

623
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: find a way, you can find one program or another

624
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: to get into the United States. So I think in

625
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: overhaul of the asylum system sounds great. The fact that

626
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: this plan is being around with no serious ideas of

627
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: what that overhaul would look like, and it's just kind

628
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: of more money, it seems unserious to me, and it

629
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: seems unlikely to pass the overhaul, to tell me, if

630
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 1: this is what you've been gathering. The overhaul to me

631
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: seems to be more, more facilities, more administrators, basically more

632
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: staff in order to move people through faster, coupled with

633
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: they say, more effective mechanisms for removal of people who

634
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: who fail at the process, because right now you don't

635
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: really go through the process until years. And if you

636
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: fail at the process, you can pretty much stay, you

637
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: can say, I mean unless unless something goes badly wrong

638
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: for you. You can stay. If you're especially if you're

639
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: in a sanctuary study, you can stay. As long as

640
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: you're not like on the wrong side of law enforcement,

641
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: you're fine. And even if you're on the wrong side

642
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: of law enforcement, as long as you're not too far

643
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 1: on the wrong side of law enforcement. Right, they're probably

644
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 1: not going to get get looped up in it. From

645
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,959
Speaker 1: Progress have seen ambivalent about this entire thing because of

646
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: the title four elements, but not totally opposed to it either.

647
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: From now. The fact that Stephen Miller, for instance, is

648
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: like losing his mind over it, I think probably ended

649
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: up increasing Progressive support for it, Like, Okay, well Stephen

650
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: Miller thinks it's this bad, then maybe there's something in here,

651
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, worth salvaging. And all of the money that

652
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: one of the problems that all the money spent that

653
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: would be spent to like staff up, it's not clear

654
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: they can actually staff up. Trump added what wanted to

655
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: add what five thousand border patrol agents? Right, he's added

656
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: like one hundred and fifty or something like the number

657
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: of people who can pass the drug test and who

658
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: are otherwise qualified to serve as a border patrol in

659
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: the areas where they need border patrol agents want that job.

660
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: Just died yesterday in pursuit of people crossing the border.

661
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: His ATV hit an object. I believe it was a

662
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: fence as he was in pursuit of people who were

663
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: running across the border. It's the border patrol job has

664
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: gotten increasingly dangerous because again coyotes are they have industrialized

665
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: these pathways like through the dairy and gap into Central

666
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: America then up into Mexico, and they have bought off

667
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: law enforcement, the federalist all throughout Mexico, and that means

668
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: they basically own certain checkpoints. It means that this is

669
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: an industrialized trafficking system and migrants who are desperate for

670
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: a better life are coached and what to say to

671
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: get asylum in the United States. And again like it

672
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: is heartbreaking to talk to folks who are in this

673
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: situation and they are being preyed on by cartels. If

674
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: you talk to them, they have dealt with attempted rapes,

675
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: actual sexual assaults, they have dealt with violence, kidnappings. They

676
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: have just been kidnapped and put in safe houses and

677
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: then forced to sort of call family to get money

678
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: to released and being used as human ransom by cartels.

679
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: But the only way to cross now is by coyotes.

680
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: There's some people who try to do it without, and

681
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: if you if you try to do it without, more

682
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 1: dangerous to get caught by coyote than a border patrol.

683
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: One migrant that I talked to you over the summer.

684
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: He got across after and this is I'll talk about

685
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 1: him in the second He got across and called another

686
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: reporter I was with in the middle of the night.

687
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 1: He was in the United States and was terrified that

688
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: the cartels were onto him. It's this is like happening

689
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: at three or four in the morning. And one of

690
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: the reasons that I wanted to talk about this is

691
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: because if just a couple of weeks ago, we can

692
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: put up the next element from this block C two,

693
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: there was reporting the Biden administration basically said was going

694
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: to begin deporting Cuban migrants who had crossed illegally into

695
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: the US from Mexico on flights back to Cuba because

696
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: they had secured an agreement with the Cuban government to

697
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: take them back. Now this person that I this particular

698
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: keep a migrant that I'm thinking of, had been he

699
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: showed us a mark. It's always hard to verify the stories,

700
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: but he showed us a mark actually on his shoulder.

701
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: He had been beaten during the July eleventh protests, not

702
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: even for protesting, but for going outside to watch the protest.

703
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: Raised a bunch of money flew down into South America,

704
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: made his way up through Central America, crossed twice and

705
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: got sent back, and the first time because Cubans had

706
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: no longer been able to stay under Title forty two,

707
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: and that had happened the day before he crossed, and

708
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: he was so desperate to be in the United States.

709
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: It's just incredible the way our asylum system is broken.

710
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: That funneling more money into it is not the answer.

711
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: It would be helpful to be able to process more

712
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: asylum claims, but the bottom line is our asylum law

713
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: just needs more clarity because right now it is really specific.

714
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: You have to be fleeing prosecution from a particular group,

715
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: so that means you have to be fleeing basically like

716
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: threats of political violence, or you have fleeing because of

717
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: racial discrimination, sexual discrimination, whatever it is. And it creates

718
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: this entire lack of clarity that you talk to all

719
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: kinds of folks. A lot of the Haitian migrants that

720
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: are crossing the border right now, they're economic migrants. They

721
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: haven't lived in Haiti since, in many cases the earthquake

722
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 1: of twenty ten. They've had fairly decent lives in Brazil,

723
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: in Chile and Mexico. They'll tell you this, but they're

724
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: really desperate to get in America because they know that

725
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: they can have even better lives there. And what's so

726
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: sad is that there are people with immediate urgent asylum

727
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: claims that because the asylum system is so confusing and

728
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: so easily at like, it's so easily gummed up with

729
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: all kinds of different bureaucratic problems, there's just no way

730
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: for people who need immediate refuge to immediately get it.

731
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: Speaking of guming up, if this doesn't get through in

732
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: the Lame Duck, the chance that McCarthy brings it to

733
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 1: the floor is basically zero. So it has to happen. Now,

734
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: what are the chances that, as far as you understand

735
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: of there being ten Republicans? I could see some. Tom Tillis,

736
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: who negotiated this with Cinema obviously is one. So where

737
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: do you get nine more senators? Is it possible that

738
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: there could be ten Republicans on this? I tried to

739
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 1: do the math and can only get to five or

740
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: six that I think that always seems to be Yeah,

741
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: you can get to five or six Republicans, but getting

742
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: past that is so hard, And I think that's why

743
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: if you look at this the bullet points are a

744
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: pretty sweet pot for Republicans already, like funding border patrol,

745
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: keeping Title forty two, and overhauling asylum. Those are three

746
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: things that Republicans would really get on board with. It's

747
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: the dreamers that'll be tough to give. Two million kids

748
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: have been people who've been here since they were two

749
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: or whatever citizenship that that's their red line. It's like

750
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 1: it's politically impossible for Republicans to do even Dreamersmnesty. Yeah,

751
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: I mean I think and again, this is a wonder

752
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: we keep saying. You know, Trump, what Trump showed said

753
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: he would give amnesty. He did, And Trump also showed

754
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: us so many times that our understanding of what's possible

755
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: and impossible politically is wrong. Right, Well, you can't make

756
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: fun of John mccamb for getting shot down in the

757
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 1: middle of a presidential campaign. That doesn't mean, it turns

758
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: out you can. This is what I'm going to talk

759
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: about a little bit of my monologue. But like that

760
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: doesn't mean Nashville Republicans have internalized that lesson. Yeah, so

761
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: I think if they're watching Wake Up People, you'll be Okay,

762
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: gives a dream or some citizenship, get all your goodies,

763
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: you can do it. Speaking of speaking of South America,

764
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: let's move on to Peru, where the country is in

765
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: turmoil right now. They did their own little attempt at

766
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: January sixth. Are some there are some parallels because actually

767
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: the president who was ousted yesterday in a vote, a

768
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: majority vote, it was like one hundred and one out

769
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: of one hundred and thirty members, he basically said this

770
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: was a coup by investigations. He was like, this is

771
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: a new kind of coup, and that we were talking

772
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: before the show started. I was like, that's pretty interesting

773
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: because you see that really happening in the weaponization of

774
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 1: special councils. Now, that's at a rate that seems incredible,

775
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: and you could maybe go back to Whitewater, you could

776
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: probably go to Watergate something like that, But I think

777
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: we're at a different level here, and obviously it's not

778
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: apples to apples, but that is one of the more

779
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: interesting elements of the story is the president who was

780
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: elected in that pink wave that got a decent chunk

781
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: of media attention here in the United States had been

782
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: up to a lot of reforms, increased minimum wage, and

783
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: tried to do all kinds of different things in Peru

784
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: was ousted by a majority vote yesterday amid all of

785
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: these investigations into allegations of corruption, helping family members, et cetera,

786
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: et cetera. Yeah, So this is Pedro Castillo, who was

787
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: a poor competino still to this day has or as

788
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: of yesterday had still had roughly the same approval rating

789
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: out in the countryside. In Peru, he'd lost a couple points,

790
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: but not many. It was in the cities. It was

791
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: in the cities where his support really collapsed. South America

792
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: has the kind of reverse left right access as as

793
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: we do here in Bolivia for instance. Uh, the support

794
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: for Ava Morales and his and his party and the

795
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: new president of Arce all comes from the countryside, whereas

796
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: the wealthier cities are the right wing elements, whereas we

797
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: kind of have reversed that in a in a way

798
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: here and in Europe and in some other other industrial

799
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: western countries. So Pedro Castillo was a populist more than

800
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: he was a kind of an old school leftist. And

801
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: if you're going to be a populist, you also have

802
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: to be able to govern. And the problem with populism

803
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: sometimes you get a genuinely authentic populist, and what that

804
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: can sometimes mean is that they have an enormous a

805
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: number of grifters kind of attached to them and and

806
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: his his family and his inner circle were. In fact,

807
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: now every every government is corrupt to some degree or another.

808
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: The public has less appetite, maybe ironically or paradoxically for

809
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: the type of petty corruption that actually kind of ends

810
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,919
Speaker 1: up hurting the population. The public less but is more

811
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: obvious in your face. Like if you are corrupt in

812
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: the American way, where you've got lobbyists who are pushing

813
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: for trillion dollar weapons systems or you know, multi billion

814
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: dollar weapon systems that don't that don't work within a

815
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: trillion dollar Pentagon budget that can't be audited, that is

816
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: going to cause a lot more pain for the local

817
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 1: population the Americans and also then around the world when

818
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 1: they have to be used so that they can go

819
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: make new ones. But that's kind of the legal legalized

820
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: corruption on a mass scale. It's when somebody gets caught

821
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: with like fifty thousand dollars of cash in their freezer

822
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: that people really lose their minds or handouts to their

823
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: family is not convoluted like clear cut personal cross and

824
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: like his daughter got caught in a one of those

825
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: petty corruption scandals. Police came to arrest her in the palace.

826
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: She was able to like escape out of the palace,

827
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: and then Castillo was like, a real shame. We lost

828
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,399
Speaker 1: all of the surveillance equipment and we have no idea

829
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: where the daughter is. It was like just clownish level

830
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 1: levels of things. But it is true that the right

831
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: wing was like investigating him for the purpose of housing him.

832
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: This was the this was the third impeachment vote. They

833
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: had come after him twice already. It is also true

834
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: that in Brazil, del Marussef was the victim of basically

835
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: a right wing coup through the kind of judicial and

836
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: legislative slash impeachment process like it. These these things are

837
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 1: all true. Castillo, though, was you know, was kind of guilty,

838
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: but like I said, everybody is guilty anyway. So he

839
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: goes he goes on the air and he's like, look,

840
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 1: we're suspending the government. We're declaring an emergency, emergency government.

841
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm dictating. These are the things that I'm dictating. Use

842
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: the word dictate. He's trying to get rid of the constitution.

843
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: He's going to have a new constitution. They're going to

844
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: draw it together, and it just it was about as

845
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: effective as Trump's effort on truth social to suspend the constitution,

846
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: and the cops arrested him. By the end of the day,

847
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: he was replaced by Dinna Blue art Day, Peru's first

848
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: female president. So girl boss win. There you go. I'm

849
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: kidding from being glib, but yeah, from a Marxist party.

850
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: So maybe, like now, her problem is that she doesn't

851
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: have any mandate. That's right, there's this huge question of

852
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: whether she has any ability to govern whatsoever. The sixth president,

853
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: we put up a one here in less than five years. Again,

854
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: we did not cross the digital picket line to grab

855
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: this image. We grabbed it before the picket line was

856
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: put up. So the sixth president of Peru in under

857
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: five years, I mean, just a stunning sense of turmoil

858
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 1: in the Peruvian government. It's it's hard for anybody to

859
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: find a way to calm that level in somebody who

860
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: comes in without any clear sort of mandate in the

861
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: legislative body. Yeah, so we'll see where this goes from here.

862
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: Around around the world, we're also seeing all sorts of

863
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: or source of unrest. Haiti continues, UH continues to see

864
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: its capital port of Prince we can put up I think,

865
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 1: what do we have. It's a D two. Here continues

866
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: to be divided into, you know, increasingly calcified gang controlled areas,

867
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: as the United States continues to support an utterly illegitimate

868
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: interim president in the form of Ariel Henri who has

869
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: been credibly tied to the assassination of the former president JOVENL.

870
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: Moy's UH. And as long as the United States is

871
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: propping up that a president who has utterly no legitimacy

872
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: with the Haitian population and doing so so that we

873
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: can send Haitian migrants back anxiety. But that's the whole point.

874
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: That's our deal with Henrich and the media. You may

875
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: have killed the president, we may have even known about it,

876
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 1: but as long as you take Haitian migrants, you can

877
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: stay in power. It's shocking how little attention in the

878
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 1: press and in the government that deal that We've talked

879
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: to people here who have knowledge of it, and it's

880
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: exactly what's happening. Todd Bensman reported it out in the

881
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: New York Post. He's a great immigration reporter, and he

882
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: was saying, like basically the agreement here is that if

883
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: you continue to take Haitian migrants back. These are Haitian

884
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: migrants who have not lived in Haiti for ten years.

885
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: In many cases, it's their worst nightmare to be sent

886
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: back to Portal Prince. And if you will do that, Haiti,

887
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: then that's the deal. We'll back you up right, which

888
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: will back up your government, which then produces even more instability,

889
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: which then produces more migrants, which then you know, solidifies

890
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: our support for the person that will take the migrants

891
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: to that that then produces more migrants. Uh. And the

892
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: and the question of the assassination of malays Can continues

893
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: to Royal Haiti. Uh. Miami Herald has done some tremendous

894
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 1: reporting on it over over the months, and they have

895
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: they have a new piece out and let's see if

896
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: we can put this up. There's this wild interactive I

897
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: really urge everybody to go check it out at Miami

898
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: Herald dot com. Uh. It's basically like that always Sonny

899
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia Meme, except totally real. And so what you

900
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,439
Speaker 1: can do is you can you can you can hover

901
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 1: over particular figures, say like let's say, where's our is

902
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: Colonel Mike. We love Colonel Mike. Just flash across the stream. Yeah,

903
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: we love Colonel Mike. Because Colonel Mike was also involved

904
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: in the effort to assassinate Luis Arce, who were just

905
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,359
Speaker 1: talking about. Is that he was at the time going

906
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 1: to be the incoming Bolivian president. He's now the oblivion president.

907
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: Colonel Mike. Colonel Mike failed. That's something we reported over

908
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: at the intercept that the same guy was doing both.

909
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: So you click on Colonel Mike, it tells you who

910
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: he is. He's currently he's currently jailed in Haiti. But

911
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: then it gives you all the people that he is

912
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 1: that he is linked to, many of whom and you'll

913
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: see over here in Triago and CTU Security are our

914
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: American based kind of military consultant slash contractor types. It's

915
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: like six degrees of Kevin Bacon, except instead of Kevin Bacon,

916
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: it's the Pentsagon, right, yes, And then you have like

917
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: you click on Joseph Badio. This is the guy who

918
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: is at the scene of the crime, who who called

919
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 1: Aaron Honry multiple times. Like we're not making like massive

920
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: conspiratorial leaps here to say that Arion Ree was potentially

921
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: involved with the assassination of the last president. He was

922
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: getting phone calls from the scene of the crime. So

923
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: and and American mercenaries were clearly are clearly implicated in

924
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 1: what happened. American mercies and then and then these Columbian

925
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: mercenaries that many of them US trained. Uh. Yeah, the

926
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 1: entire thing is just extraordinarily fishing and extraordinarily sad as

927
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 1: Haiti continues to be import of Prince, continues to be

928
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: in gang control, rival gang control. This type of war

929
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 1: is causing enormous suffering. The reporting suggests the streets are

930
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: just disgusting. I believe the word that the Guardian used

931
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: was putrid. So it's a it's a mess, and our

932
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,399
Speaker 1: role in all of it is fuzzy, remains fuzzy. Yeah,

933
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: although we're supporting the guy who seems to have done it. Yeah,

934
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:42,760
Speaker 1: that's not fuzzy. Speaking of coups in Germany, there was

935
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: a rest were made across the country in response to

936
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: a sweet and we can put up D four here

937
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: in response to a right wing coup attempt. What did

938
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: you What did you make of this? I have absolutely

939
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: no idea what to make of this. This story is

940
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: absolutely wild. You can see the New York Times there once.

941
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: This was grabbed before the digital picket line. Special forces

942
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: in Germany have arrested twenty five people, is per the

943
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: New York Times, suspected of supporting a domestic terrorist organization

944
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: that plan to overthrow the government and form its own state.

945
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: Federal prosecutors said on Wednesday, So these are early morning raids.

946
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: Germany special forces are arresting folks. Some people were arrested

947
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: in Austria. Another person was actually arrested in as far

948
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: away as Italy. About fifty two suspects here, so that's

949
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: a pretty big orchestration. So this is again like I

950
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: have absolutely no idea what to make of this. I

951
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: think this is fairly new and we're going to learn

952
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: a lot more about it in the coming days. But

953
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: this the European Right, and I don't know that this

954
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: is the right necessarily. It could be saying it is,

955
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 1: but they're saying it is. Yeah, okay. So the European

956
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 1: Right is a very interesting movement, and it's like the

957
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: country to country kind of distinctions in the European Right

958
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: are often fascinating and I frankly, you know a lot

959
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 1: of people pay attention to hungry. A lot of people

960
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: pay attention to obviously the UK and so of the

961
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: northern European countries, Spain and France, but I have not

962
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 1: paid much attention to, like the populace right in Germany. Yeah,

963
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: and they are, you know, severely handcuffed by that laws,

964
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: by anti anti Nazi laws that prohibit them creeping back

965
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: into places that a lot of right right wing elements

966
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: elsewhere around Europe or elsewhere around the world, you know,

967
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: like like to creep into and so, so I don't

968
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: know if this is a Gretchen Whittnamer situation or if

969
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 1: this was like a real like attempt at a coup

970
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: fiuspects fifty two? What they round up in Michigan like

971
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: a dozen? How many? How many those fifty to or informers?

972
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: We gotta we gotta find out what was it? What

973
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: was the FBI up to in Germany? Anyway, we'll see

974
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: speaking of corrupt former presidents, the Trump organization was found

975
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: guilty of criminal tax fraud. We could put up what

976
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 1: is this E one? Yeah, we covered this a couple

977
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: of weeks ago, and it seemed pretty clear that prosecutors

978
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: were feeling good. They thought they had it. Yeah, yes,

979
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: they thought they had it to the point where I

980
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: think even a key witness, I think they just moved

981
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: on from having the testimony. This is so, the jury

982
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: found uh the company guilty of federal tax fraud crimes.

983
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: And again, like this seemed pretty clear cut. I don't

984
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 1: think it's really even surprising to big supporters of Donald Trump.

985
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 1: I actually also don't think the Trump organization ever anticipated

986
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 1: being being hauled into court for this kind of behavior,

987
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: which is an interesting element of it that like, and

988
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,919
Speaker 1: this is over, you know, Alan Weisselberg's actions. The question

989
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: is was he doing it on behalf? I think it's

990
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: the CFO, right, is he doing on behalf of himself

991
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: or the Trump organization? Is it personal fraud or is

992
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: it Trump organization fraud? Can you connect the dots? Obviously

993
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: the jury thought that you could connect the dots, and

994
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: that I think is probably fair. But again, this is

995
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: a kind of I feel like I would say, this

996
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: is just kind of soft corporate corruption that you don't

997
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: expect to get hauled into court for all of the time.

998
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: It's fairly easy to hide, and I don't think the

999
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: Trump organization ever expected, you know, obviously, Donald Trump to

1000
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: win the presidency and have his business deals sort of

1001
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: raked over the right. I think probably most New York

1002
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: real estate conglomerates could be caught in some type of

1003
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: tax sheenanigans. I think Trump has always made it clear

1004
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: he has less respect for rules than well, pretty much

1005
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: anybody can fix the system because I've benefited from it.

1006
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: So they were. The organization was found guilty on seventeen

1007
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: counts of criminal tax fraud and falsifying business records. But

1008
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: the maximum penalty is only one point six million dollars.

1009
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: So look for some more emails in your in your

1010
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: inbox promising to match one thousand times the Trump organization

1011
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: because he needs one point six million dollars to pay

1012
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: this off. They say that they're going to appeal this.

1013
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: Here's the statement for the Trump Organization is that the

1014
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: notion that a company could be held responsible for an

1015
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: employee's actions to benefit themselves on their own personal tax

1016
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 1: returns is simply preposterous that that that might be true.

1017
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: What they had to prove is that the organization was

1018
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: central and you know, and complicit in in the arrangement

1019
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: that was that was benefiting the employees. So basically, what

1020
00:58:55,560 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: was going on is that the Trump organization, through WHYG

1021
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: and perhaps others, was figuring out ways to arrange its

1022
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 1: compensation so that it just so that it was off

1023
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 1: basically off the books compensation for yes, the family or

1024
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: other people associated with the Trump organization, so that you

1025
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: get if you get free apartment, if you get free this,

1026
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: free that, then it doesn't show up on your tax returns. Yes,

1027
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: So Wesselberg had already pleaded guilty, That's basically what it is,

1028
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: but the Trump business entities did not. And so what

1029
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: was presented. For instance, this is an NPR called that

1030
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: some of the most attention grabbing evidence presented to the

1031
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: jury were documents with Trumps signature. So that included a

1032
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: rental agreement for a luxury apartment that Weisselberg used, a

1033
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: private school tuition check for one of his grandchildren, and

1034
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: Wesselberg then admitted he didn't declare the benefits of his income.

1035
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: So you can see then connecting the dots to the

1036
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: Trump organization. That's where the Trump organization says, this is

1037
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: just Weiselberg, and the jury obviously found this is a

1038
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: Trump organization, right right, So the Trump organization would say, look,

1039
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: our job is to pay people their job is to

1040
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: file their taxes fairly. And look, hey, we paid you know,

1041
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: we paid his grand his grandkid's tuition. We fully expected

1042
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: him to pay the taxes on that. That's where the

1043
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: jury was like, no, you didn't, because that's not how

1044
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: people normally get paid. Like if you want to, if

1045
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 1: he wants to fund a thirty thousand dollars private school

1046
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: for his grandkid, you give him thirty thousand dollars. Then

1047
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: he goes and funds that, and then he has to

1048
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: pay taxes on that. And so clearly the jury was like, no,

1049
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: obviously the reason that you were cutting this check was

1050
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: so that and maybe you try, Maybe they tried. Maybe

1051
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 1: they cut it as a I didn't follow the details.

1052
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: But if they were being trying to be extra greedy,

1053
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: they could they could pretend it was a donation to

1054
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: the school. Yeah. And then and then there's a deal

1055
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: with like the principal that this kid gets you no,

1056
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 1: gets intuition free. And then so then Trump organization gets

1057
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: the tax benefit from that. Weiselberg gets the tax benefit

1058
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: for not having to pay taxes on his compensation, which

1059
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: basically gives you kind of half off of that tuition.

1060
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: You end up with a situation where this kid's getting

1061
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:24,919
Speaker 1: a private school education basically fully subsidized by taxpayers. Yeah,

1062
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: and this was not reported to the State of New

1063
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: York or to the I R S. Right, shocking. So

1064
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: there you are again, and listen, I don't my beat

1065
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: is not in New York real estate. It's not real

1066
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 1: estate either. More generally, I imagine this kind of thing

1067
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: is not entirely uncommon. Yep. And so we'll see. We'll

1068
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 1: see if Trump's opponent in the present potential opponent in

1069
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 1: the presidential campaign can make hay of this. No, bring

1070
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: aman put up the next element here. His opponent could

1071
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: be none other than John Bolton. Yes, speaking once again

1072
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: of coups. We've cavered a lot of coups today, Ryan,

1073
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: and John Bolton hopes to plan another coupe, this time

1074
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: in his own country. Role e two. Here, you've just

1075
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: made some news. There. You are essentially telling us that

1076
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: you would consider getting into the twenty twenty four race. Absolutely,

1077
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: I think to be a presidential candidate, you can't simply

1078
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: say I support the Constitution. You have to say I

1079
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: would oppose people who would undercut it. You know, we

1080
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: used to have a thing in the House of Representatives

1081
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: called the House Unamerican Affairs Committee. I think when you

1082
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: challenge the Constitution itself the way Trump is done, that

1083
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: is un American. Let's stay here for a moment. Just

1084
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: walk me through your thinking. What does your timeline look like?

1085
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: What would cause you to cross into saying what you're

1086
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,919
Speaker 1: saying now and actually being a declared candidate for president. Look,

1087
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: all of the potential candidates know what Trump has said.

1088
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: This is no secret to anybody. I don't see why

1089
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: they aren't saying it right now. I think the voters,

1090
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: the Republican voters, people who choose the Republican nominee, nearly

1091
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: ninety five percent disagree that Donald Trump is more important

1092
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: than the Constitution. I'm afraid there are some who would

1093
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: stick with Trump on this. What does a candidate have

1094
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 1: to lose by appealing to ninety five percent of the

1095
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: base of the Republican Party. No, his Matt doesn't check out.

1096
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case, John Bolton, What does

1097
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: a candidate have to lose by appealing to ninety five

1098
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: percent of the Republican base? The idea that any anti

1099
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: Trump candidate, let alone somebody with the history of John Bolton.

1100
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 1: People forget so so easily how hard Trump campaigned on

1101
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: ending endless foreign conflicts in twenty sixteen. He actually really

1102
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 1: didn't campaign too much on a twenty twenty I think,

1103
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 1: probably to his detriment. But a huge part of his

1104
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: campaign in twenty fifteen against other Republicans and in the

1105
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: Republican primary was and against Hillary Clinton. What is the

1106
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 1: difference in the foreign policy of Hillary Clinton and John Bolton.

1107
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: Somebody please tell me, because I'm sure we could find

1108
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: so many similarities that would probably outnumber the differences. And

1109
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: Donald Trump campaigned very effectively on the failed foreign policy

1110
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: of the United States that John Bolton has had a

1111
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: huge hand in voting as a member of the Trump

1112
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 1: had been including as a member the Trump administration. And

1113
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: let us not forget one of the greatest quotes in

1114
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: the history of neo conservatism from John Bolton, when Jake

1115
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,959
Speaker 1: Tapper in July during January sixth coverage special January sixth

1116
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: coverage in the Capitol, he says to John Bolton, one

1117
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be brilliant to attempt to coop. Yes,

1118
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: John Bolton says, I disagree with that, as somebody who

1119
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: has helped plan coup data, so not here, and he

1120
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: actually said it more accurately. He said, COO's deta not here,

1121
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: here's but you know other places. It takes a lot

1122
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: of work. And that's not what Trump did. It was

1123
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 1: just stumbling around from one idea to another. So Trump's

1124
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: greatest flaw that John Bolton thinks ninety five percent of

1125
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: the Republican base might go for, or a major Trump

1126
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: flaw at the very least, is he's just not good

1127
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: enough at planning cou's. He doesn't have the attention span

1128
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: to plan effective cus got to learn from Biden. He

1129
01:04:54,640 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: just got Pedro Castillo, right, Yeah, there's a lot to

1130
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 1: The US embassy did put a hilarious tweet on Pedro

1131
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: Castillo saying we urged the Peruvian people to remain calm,

1132
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,919
Speaker 1: should do it, not saying the US led a coup.

1133
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean that seemed to us was glad to see

1134
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: Pedro Castillo. Yeah, but that's different than planning the coup.

1135
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 1: It's a key distinction. I don't. Yeah, I normally think

1136
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: any leftist leader that gets ousted is part of a coup.

1137
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 1: I don't think this is exactly a coup because he

1138
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: was just Becausetilla was just so kind of brazenly over

1139
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 1: the top about some of the corruption. Yeah, so yeah, yeah,

1140
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 1: either way, John Bolton's not going to be the Republican

1141
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: nominee for president. I feel very confident, like listen pundit,

1142
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 1: maybe's gonna run as a Democrat. Better luck, he would

1143
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: have better luck as a resistance Democrat, going on MSNBC

1144
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: and CNN, just talking about how terrible the man that

1145
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: he agreed to work for was a right up. Next,

1146
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: Daniel Ellsberg says that he got a he got a

1147
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: backup copy of the documents that Chelsea Manning leaked in

1148
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 1: case something happened to WikiLeaks and they weren't able to

1149
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: publish them. He's now daring the Biden administration to prosecute him,

1150
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 1: just like they're prosecuting Julian Assange. We're going to talk

1151
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:23,920
Speaker 1: to Stefania Marizi, who is out with a brand new

1152
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: book on Assange. Is a journalist who has probably spent

1153
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: more or as much or more time covering WikiLeaks and

1154
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: Assange as as anyone on the planet. So stick around

1155
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: for that to talk about the latest news in the

1156
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,959
Speaker 1: Julian Assange case. We're joined now by Stefania Maurice, who's

1157
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 1: an Italian journalist and the author of the new book

1158
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: which is called Secret Power, Wiki Leaks and Its Enemies.

1159
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: Stefania has been covering covering WikiLeaks and Assange, probably you know,

1160
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: longer and with as much depth as maybe any any

1161
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: reporter on the planet. And and we're glad to have

1162
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: her here. Steps Ifania, welcome to Breaking Pints. Thanks so

1163
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: much for having me. So we wanted to start by

1164
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: getting your reaction to this explosive news from Daniel Ellsberg.

1165
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 1: And Daniel Elsberg, obviously famously the whistle blower who revealed

1166
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: the Pentagon papers, said this week that he well, in fact,

1167
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: let's just play this sot from Melsburg himself. Let me

1168
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 1: tell you a secret. I had possession of all the

1169
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning information before it came out in the press.

1170
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: Julian I never said that publicly. Julian Massage had conveyed

1171
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 1: me as a backup in case his was they caught him,

1172
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 1: and he caught everything, he could rely on me to

1173
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: find some way to get it out. If I feel so,

1174
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: I had all that, And when I say that, I'm

1175
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: saying that by the current standing of the Department of Justice.

1176
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: I am now as indictable as Julian Massage and as

1177
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 1: everyone who put that information out the paper, everybody who

1178
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 1: handled it. Yes, I had copies of it and I

1179
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: did not give them to an authorized person. So if

1180
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 1: they want to indict me for that, I will be

1181
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 1: interested to argue that one in the court whether that

1182
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 1: law is constitution. The Supreme Court has never held that

1183
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: using the Espionage Act as if it were a British

1184
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: official secret sect, which I would fairly have violated. But

1185
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: if that using the Espionage Actor is if it were

1186
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 1: an official secret sect which has never been passed by

1187
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 1: our Congress, that that would be a criminal. They were

1188
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: never ruined that. I'd be happy to take that one

1189
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court. Yes, So, Stefani, was this news

1190
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,799
Speaker 1: to you that Julia Sange had given a backup copy

1191
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: to Alberg? And what do you make of a his

1192
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: espionage active point? Yes, First of all, it is new.

1193
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 1: I remember that at the very very beginning when Julian

1194
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: Nas Sanze started publishing the first Bombshell, and I know

1195
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: because I was already there. I was basically at my

1196
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: first time in which I work as a media partner

1197
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,560
Speaker 1: with Wikiliks for my newspaper. I never worked for Wikilis

1198
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:09,000
Speaker 1: as a collaborator. I have always worked with Wikilicks as

1199
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: a as a media partner for my newspaper. So back

1200
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: in twenty ten I contacted Daniel Elsberg and he told

1201
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: me how it was skeptical at the beginning when Juliana

1202
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 1: Sanche had contacted him and he was thinking maybe they

1203
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 1: want trap, wanted trap some week blowers, so he didn't

1204
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: trust this wikilicks idea, this Weeklicks project. But later on

1205
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: when Julian Sane started releasing the collateral murdered the Warlocks,

1206
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: of course Daniel Elsberg felt his kinship with this project

1207
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 1: with the Chelsea Manning, Juliana Sanje and the Wikiliks journalist.

1208
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 1: I think Danie Leesberg is saying something really important. First

1209
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 1: of all, he says the Espionage Act should not be

1210
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 1: used as the Official Secret Act. We know that in

1211
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: the US there is no such a thing as the

1212
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:12,600
Speaker 1: Official Secret Act, which allow the UK authorities to go

1213
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 1: after reporters for publishing state secrets. We know that in

1214
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: the US the press has such enjoys such constitutional protection

1215
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:29,719
Speaker 1: thanks to the First Amendment, that the US authorities can

1216
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:35,000
Speaker 1: couldn't charge reporters for publishing state secrets, and in the

1217
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 1: state secrets get published on a regular basis. Basically, it's

1218
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 1: what national security journalists do on a regular basis. So

1219
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 1: what Daniel Ardberk says is really important. The US authorities,

1220
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: especially the Trump administration, which charge Julian Assans, are trying

1221
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: to use the Espionage Act to to destroy the freedom

1222
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: of the press, the freedom of reporters to expose state

1223
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 1: criminalities at the highest level, like the one we have

1224
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: seen a non collateral murder, or like the one we

1225
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 1: have seen on cables on again warlocks, Iraq warlocks torture,

1226
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: and they had abusing the Espionage Act to do this.

1227
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 1: And in addition to this, Daniel Elsberg Elsberg makes an

1228
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:32,639
Speaker 1: important point. If they charge you as Sanchez they have done,

1229
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: they should charge me as well. They should charge Daniel

1230
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: Elsberg for receiving this document. They should charge us, the

1231
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: media partners, we have published the very same documents. They

1232
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:50,640
Speaker 1: should charge John Young from cryptom who published the cables

1233
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 1: even before we leixes. So this gives you an idea

1234
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 1: of how incoherent is this legal and judicial case. Again,

1235
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: Julian Assandro Uikhilik's. Yeah, I was actually just going to

1236
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 1: ask about your experiences in all of this, because last

1237
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: week the editors and publishers of several major publications, The Times,

1238
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:12,719
Speaker 1: The Guardian, Lamn, Dershpiegel and L Paise published a letter saying,

1239
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: even though they have concerns about some of the ways

1240
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: the information was made public by Julian Assange, that's a

1241
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 1: huge threat to press freedom. And there's some pictures that

1242
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 1: we can put up here G four, some great images

1243
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 1: of Ustafania with Julian Assange that were taken over the

1244
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 1: course of your reporting. One of the reasons we have

1245
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 1: that lower image is probably of interest to some of

1246
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: the listeners and the viewers. Tell us, Stefania, how your

1247
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: just your interactions with Julianassange are wrapped up in this

1248
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: and you know your fears of maybe whether or not

1249
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 1: you could have ever pursued this course of reportage, this

1250
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 1: journalistic inquiry if the crackdown, the full crackdown that a

1251
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: lot of the political establishment wants to bring upon Julian Assange. Ever,

1252
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: how yeah, thank you for this question, because I have

1253
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: I can bring my experience. I have been there for

1254
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: from the very beginning even before collateral Murder, even before

1255
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:16,679
Speaker 1: they became famous. So I mean even before the large

1256
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 1: majority of mainstream media were interested in with Heliics. And

1257
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 1: I can tell you why I started looking at them.

1258
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 1: I started looking at them first of all because one

1259
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 1: of my sources had started stopped talking to me and

1260
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 1: I at that point I decided I needed better source

1261
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:39,839
Speaker 1: protection because clearly the old the fashion techniques which we

1262
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: journalist use in our newsroom are no longer suitable in

1263
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: this era of mass surveillance. So I wanted to learn

1264
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 1: from them how to use cryptography to protect my sources.

1265
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:56,599
Speaker 1: I am a mathematician before journalism. I got a degree

1266
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 1: in mathematics, so I knew that it was possible. I

1267
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: had the theoretical knowledge, but I wasn't able to use it.

1268
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: So at that time, one of my sources in the

1269
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: field of cryptography told me you should have a look

1270
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:14,320
Speaker 1: on that bench of lunatics. And the lunatics were Julian

1271
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: loss Angele Wikiliks. And the reason why my source put

1272
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 1: Wikilicks on my rather screen was that Weikliics was the

1273
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 1: only media organization in the world using cryptography systematically. Cryptography

1274
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: to protect journalistic sources not even the New York Times,

1275
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 1: not in the most powerful newsroom in the world, were

1276
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 1: using cryptography back in two thousand and six, two thousand

1277
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:43,000
Speaker 1: and seven, two thousand and eight, when wiklicks was was

1278
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: starting doing this. So they were pioneering this cryptography and

1279
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:51,759
Speaker 1: I was very, very interested in this. But in addition,

1280
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: I was really interested. What really impressed me was that

1281
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 1: they were able to obtain documents that no other the

1282
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:04,719
Speaker 1: organization was able to get it to get. And not

1283
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 1: only that they were able to publish, they had the

1284
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 1: courage to publish. For example, when the Pentagon hasked them

1285
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 1: to remove a document about the Ganama Task Force, the

1286
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:21,920
Speaker 1: military task force operating GMA detention camp, they said no,

1287
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:25,519
Speaker 1: they refused to remove the document. So for me it

1288
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:29,440
Speaker 1: was really I mean, it was really something very important

1289
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:32,599
Speaker 1: because I'm sure you remember that after the ninety eleven

1290
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 1: there was such conformasm were the media were almost publishing

1291
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 1: whatever the CIA or the Pentagon were saying, with very

1292
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: very few noble exemptions like Simour Ursche who exposed you know,

1293
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: the the about grab torture and so on. But there

1294
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:59,640
Speaker 1: was a widespread conformism, and so for me it was

1295
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,680
Speaker 1: really important to see that there was a media organization

1296
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:09,600
Speaker 1: able to get these documents, because clearly this cryptography appealed

1297
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 1: to a community who had important documents and they disagree

1298
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 1: with the with the Bush administration. They disagree with this atrocity,

1299
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 1: they disagree with this brutal treatment, and they came out

1300
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 1: of the dark because they trusted this security process, these

1301
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 1: security procedures provided by Heilis, and they were encouraged to

1302
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:40,719
Speaker 1: were encouraged to provide documents because we could establish them.

1303
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:43,040
Speaker 1: You know, Stefani, I want to quickly get to a

1304
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:45,720
Speaker 1: couple of revelations in your book. One, you have a

1305
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,600
Speaker 1: letter if we put up G three. Uh. This is

1306
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 1: so Julian Assane that you have a letter with him

1307
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:55,320
Speaker 1: and reaching out, uh, you know, to to basically government

1308
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: sources saying look, we'd like to cooperate. We want to

1309
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 1: we want our objective is to publish the maximumount of

1310
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:04,920
Speaker 1: information that's in the public interest, but we want to

1311
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 1: make sure we do this safely. Uh, And they respond

1312
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: to them, no, just take, We're not we're not discussing

1313
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 1: this with you. Just take, just take, don't publish anything,

1314
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: and give the documents back. Then you also have records

1315
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:21,599
Speaker 1: that show that the Guardian was able to speak directly

1316
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,679
Speaker 1: with the US with the US government and work cooperly

1317
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:27,160
Speaker 1: with the US government to get say hey, please redact this,

1318
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 1: let's don't don't publish this. The Guardian not prosecuted, assigns prosecuted.

1319
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 1: Can you can you spell a little of that out? Yes?

1320
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: I mean you have to realize that I have been

1321
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: fighting to get this the full documentation on the case

1322
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:46,520
Speaker 1: for the last seven years. I've been litigating my FOI

1323
01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: requests in the US, in the UK, in the in

1324
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 1: Australia and Sweden because four governments are refusing to release

1325
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: these documentations and this documentation, and some of them admit

1326
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 1: that they destroyed key documents about this case, which is

1327
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 1: an eye profile, which is highly controversial and which is

1328
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,920
Speaker 1: really really important when it comes to pross freedom. So

1329
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:15,720
Speaker 1: it is very suspicious that they destroyed key documents and

1330
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 1: they have refused to provide any information on why they

1331
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: destroy these documents. And so those emails that you mentioned

1332
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:30,799
Speaker 1: were internal emails from the State Department which I obtain

1333
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 1: after suing them in the US, and they clearly show

1334
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 1: that the US authorities had the double standard while they

1335
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 1: were using while they were willing to provide assystems to

1336
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: the mainstream media to have a dialogue with them and

1337
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 1: to help to reduct the documentation, especially the cables that

1338
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:55,400
Speaker 1: documents referred to the cables. And while Julian Esanch tried

1339
01:18:55,439 --> 01:19:00,679
Speaker 1: to do the same, try to contactin, try to the

1340
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: State Department to ask for assistance, to ask for any suggestion,

1341
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:09,600
Speaker 1: whether they could suggest any name that they should have reducted.

1342
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 1: And the State Department refused. Absolutely, they didn't want any dialogue,

1343
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 1: they didn't want any provide any help. But they did

1344
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:23,880
Speaker 1: and they ask Quiklis, please send back all materials you

1345
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 1: have stopped publishing and remove from your website. I have

1346
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 1: the very same correspondence with about the Guardian meeting at

1347
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:39,679
Speaker 1: the highest level the Guardian editors at the highest level

1348
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 1: of their newspaper meeting the Sate Department authorities. At no

1349
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:51,280
Speaker 1: point they has stop publishing, stop stop revealing these documents,

1350
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:56,280
Speaker 1: giving us whatever you have back remove from the Guardian website.

1351
01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 1: So I mean this double standard makes you you have

1352
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 1: made prompt you ask yourself why they behave like this.

1353
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 1: Clearly they wanted to pursue prosecute wikilicks from the very

1354
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 1: beginning or maybe they hope that someone would die as

1355
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:18,719
Speaker 1: a consequence of these publications so that they could blame

1356
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 1: Julian Assande Wikiliks of having blood on the hands. Maybe

1357
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: they wanted so. I mean, otherwise, why not to provide

1358
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 1: a system. Otherwise, why not have such dialogue as they

1359
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:35,679
Speaker 1: did with the with the New York Times, with the Guardian,

1360
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 1: with the other newspapers. Yeah, it's a good question, and

1361
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 1: I think your conclusion is disturbingly plausible. It's defining reads

1362
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: an investigative journalist. Or the book is calling and if

1363
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 1: we can put you to back up. The book is

1364
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 1: called Secret Power, Wiki, Leaks and as Enemies. Congratulations on

1365
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 1: the publication. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me,

1366
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 1: absolutely pleasure. I can't wait to read that book. All right, Ryan,

1367
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 1: what is your breaking point today? Well, it's not often

1368
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 1: that an article in a quarterly trade publication dedicated to

1369
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 1: organizing can set off a major conversation, but a new

1370
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: piece by Maurice Mitchell, who's head of the Working Families Party,

1371
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 1: has done just that. The piece has a deceptively mundane title,

1372
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 1: it's called Building Resilient Organizations, but the content of it

1373
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 1: speaks a whole series of truths that until recently have

1374
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 1: been essentially off limits in progressive spaces. For some context

1375
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,720
Speaker 1: for viewers who aren't deeply involved in progressive politics, and

1376
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,640
Speaker 1: it's important to note that WFP has often been criticized

1377
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 1: by some inside the movement for being too committed to

1378
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:43,559
Speaker 1: identity politics and what some people derisively call wokeness. So

1379
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: to have these criticisms coming from the WFP and from

1380
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 1: somebody with impeccable progressive credentials like Maurice Mitchell has forced

1381
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:55,519
Speaker 1: people to stand up and take notice. Now. Maurice, in

1382
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:57,680
Speaker 1: a video that accompanied the piece, said that it was

1383
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:00,320
Speaker 1: written in collaboration with people across the movement, and I

1384
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 1: can confirm from speaking to people who helped in the

1385
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 1: editing and drafting that it was indeed widely circulated before

1386
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,400
Speaker 1: it was published. Here's Maurice. Article is kind of like

1387
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:12,760
Speaker 1: a love letter to organizing more than anything else. Yeah.

1388
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 1: So I'm the principal author of the article. However, this

1389
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 1: article has dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of contributors.

1390
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:28,760
Speaker 1: This is the summation of consultation, conversations, several edits that

1391
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 1: included the feedback of many many leaders, including folks in

1392
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 1: our staff union, at Working Families party like this is

1393
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:39,640
Speaker 1: the summation of all of those inputs. So Mitchell has

1394
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:41,640
Speaker 1: also told people that the piece built on some of

1395
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,680
Speaker 1: the things I outlined in my June article in the

1396
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 1: Intercept on meltdowns inside progressive organizations, and you can hear

1397
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 1: some echoes of it, while Mitchell also forges ahead with

1398
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 1: some new observations. So he breaks the piece down into

1399
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 1: what he identifies as ten common destructive trends and the

1400
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:02,599
Speaker 1: fallacies behind themollowed by solutions. The whole article is worth

1401
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 1: a read, but I want to highlight a few of

1402
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 1: them here. So he goes right for the jugular in

1403
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,120
Speaker 1: the beginning with his first identified trend, not pulling any

1404
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:13,280
Speaker 1: punches with his description of what he calls quote neoliberal

1405
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:17,760
Speaker 1: identity unquote, which he calls quote using one's identity or

1406
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 1: personal experience as a justification for a political position. You

1407
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,719
Speaker 1: may hear someone argue, as a working class, first generation

1408
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 1: American Southern woman, I say we have to vote no.

1409
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:30,839
Speaker 1: What's implied is that one's identity is a comprehensive validator

1410
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 1: of one's political strategy, That identity is evidence of some intrinsic, ideological,

1411
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:39,479
Speaker 1: or strategic legitimacy. Marginalized identity is deployed as a conveyor

1412
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: of a strategic truth that must simply be accepted. Likewise,

1413
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:47,479
Speaker 1: historically privileged identities are essentialized, flattened, and frequently, for better

1414
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: or worse, dismissed. He then critiques it by saying people

1415
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 1: with marginal identities as human beings, suffer all the frailties, inconsistencies,

1416
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 1: and failings of any other human Genuflecting to individuals solely

1417
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:05,240
Speaker 1: based on their socialized identities or personal stories deprives them

1418
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 1: of the conditions that sharpen arguments, develop skills, and win debates.

1419
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: We infantilize members of historically marginalized or oppressed groups by

1420
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 1: seeking to placate or pander instead of being in a

1421
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: right relationship, which requires struggle, debate, disagreement, and hard work.

1422
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:23,679
Speaker 1: This type of false solidarity is a form of charity

1423
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,799
Speaker 1: that weakens the individual and the collective. Finding authentic alignment

1424
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,400
Speaker 1: and solidarity among diverse voices is serious labor, after all,

1425
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:36,679
Speaker 1: steel sharpened steel. Neoliberal identity politics strips from identity politics

1426
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,200
Speaker 1: a focus on collective power or a political project and

1427
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 1: demand what's left is a narrow tool used as a

1428
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:45,439
Speaker 1: personal culdual, or, as Barbara Smith has said, quote it's

1429
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:48,080
Speaker 1: like they've taken the identity and left the politics on

1430
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 1: the floor. It should be noted that we have already

1431
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:52,680
Speaker 1: seen this tactic use against us on the left and

1432
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 1: the right in the fight for racial and economic justice.

1433
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: Identity in this context reaffirms the individualistic principles of neoliberalism

1434
01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:04,639
Speaker 1: instead of challenging them. So Maurice also identifies quote anti

1435
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:09,600
Speaker 1: institutional sentiment as something that he calls quote reflexively disdaining

1436
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:13,760
Speaker 1: institutions and organizations as inherently oppressive and antiquated, including the

1437
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:17,040
Speaker 1: institution one may be associated with. This point of view

1438
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 1: casts institutions themselves as the problem, even those with a

1439
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 1: social change mission, and so he responds to that by saying,

1440
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 1: quote organizations and institutions are political vehicles. There are also

1441
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 1: spaces where individuals develop skills, connections, and ideological alignment. Institutions

1442
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 1: transmit knowledge, hold strategy, and cultivate power. Atomized individuals that

1443
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: loosely assemble cannot do this at the scale needed to

1444
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:46,120
Speaker 1: take on entrenched power. Unquote, now half the viewers watching

1445
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,800
Speaker 1: this right now might be stunned at how obvious these

1446
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 1: insights might appear. Yet it also took courage to say them,

1447
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: which is itself a depressing testament to the culture paralysis

1448
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 1: at the heart of progressive organizations right now now. With

1449
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 1: his fifth observation, called quote cherry picking arguments, he takes

1450
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 1: on the way that people throw around the terms intersectionality

1451
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:10,599
Speaker 1: or white supremacy in incoherent ways. He writes, for example,

1452
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:14,519
Speaker 1: using the term intersectionality too, let's say defend edits to

1453
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:18,280
Speaker 1: a press statement, or employing the Audrey Lord quote caring

1454
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 1: for myself is not self indulgent to give gravitas to

1455
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: a desire to stay home from an action or take

1456
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,559
Speaker 1: to take off time that you've earned and deserve as

1457
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 1: a worker, or arming yourself with a concept quote small

1458
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 1: is all from Adrian Marine Brown's emergent strategy framework outside

1459
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 1: of its global fractal context, to resist taking responsibility for

1460
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 1: a larger scale intervention or growing your community group into

1461
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 1: a mass organization. This tendency presents itself in language as well.

1462
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 1: Certain phrases and words carry cultural currency in cachet. He

1463
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 1: goes on, we often find words like revolutionary, employed, non

1464
01:26:54,760 --> 01:27:00,559
Speaker 1: ironically in the service of bourgeois individualistic demands. Decontextualized uncritical

1465
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:03,519
Speaker 1: use of intellectual material, like the Tema Oakan essay on

1466
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:07,360
Speaker 1: white supremacy culture has at time served to challenge accountability

1467
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 1: around metrics and timeliness on the use of written language.

1468
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:14,400
Speaker 1: Yet metrics and timeliness and the ability to communicate in

1469
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:18,320
Speaker 1: writing are not, in and of themselves examples of white supremacy.

1470
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:23,280
Speaker 1: Maurice Mitchell writes, and so when you hear something like

1471
01:27:23,320 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 1: this coming from a real leader in the progressive movement,

1472
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:34,719
Speaker 1: all right, well, what's your point today? Well, as expected,

1473
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: Raphael Warnock eked out a fifty one forty nine win

1474
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:41,599
Speaker 1: in the Georgia Senate runoff on Tuesday, No small feat

1475
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 1: ever for a Democrat in a red state like Georgia.

1476
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 1: So you can add Herschel Walker to the list of

1477
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 1: Republicans who've lost Georgia Senate races since twenty twenty. Walker,

1478
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:55,920
Speaker 1: David Perdue, and Kelly Leffler all landed right around forty

1479
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:58,639
Speaker 1: nine percent of the vote, as did Donald Trump. Actually

1480
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. Magic Number. Perdue was the former CEO

1481
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 1: of Dollar General, whose prior career involved heavy outsourcing Leffler

1482
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:09,760
Speaker 1: is also a C suite denizen whose networth hovers near

1483
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 1: a billion dollars, thanks in no small part to her husband,

1484
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 1: who chairs the New York Stock Exchange. Trump and Walker

1485
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 1: are both rich and famous too, although for various reasons,

1486
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: promoted populism a bit more persuasively than Perdue and Leffler.

1487
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 1: No matter, none of those four are slam dunk candidates,

1488
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:29,519
Speaker 1: that's for sure. Walker's loss is reigniting the quote candidate

1489
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 1: quality narrative in Beltway circles. What explains Brian Kemp winning

1490
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,679
Speaker 1: fifty three percent of the vote in his reelection bid

1491
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:40,639
Speaker 1: against Stacy Abrams, Why did Tim Michaels underperform Ron Johnson,

1492
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:44,400
Speaker 1: Why did Don Bulduck underperform Chris Sununu? And what the

1493
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:47,599
Speaker 1: heck is going on in Florida and Arizona. We've said

1494
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 1: repeatedly here that Republicans like Brian Kemp and Ron De

1495
01:28:51,240 --> 01:28:54,839
Speaker 1: Santis are bridging that gap between pro Trump rural populace

1496
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:58,640
Speaker 1: voters and Trump weary suburbanites. This is very difficult to do,

1497
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:01,519
Speaker 1: but it's not impossible. We disagree on a whole lot,

1498
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:04,560
Speaker 1: but former McConnell chief Josh Holmes of Ruthless made a

1499
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:09,600
Speaker 1: similar point after herschel Walker lost. Quote's one thing Republicans

1500
01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:13,160
Speaker 1: need to understand the new Ish coalition of simply swapping

1501
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 1: rural working class for suburban r were ours works on paper,

1502
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:20,920
Speaker 1: hell it works in presidentials. The turnout discrepancy in midterms

1503
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 1: is significant. Need to either fix the rural midterm turnout

1504
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:27,320
Speaker 1: or mix the appeal, he tweeted on Tuesday, adding quote,

1505
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 1: rural versus suburban is not a mutually exclusive appeal. Brian

1506
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,720
Speaker 1: Kemp did it in Ga. Ron de Santis did it

1507
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:36,720
Speaker 1: to historically significant margins in Florida. Anyone who tells you

1508
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 1: Republicans need to excize one part of a coalition for

1509
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 1: another is prescribing a destiny of losing four generations. Here's

1510
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 1: what the consultant class is both unwilling and unaware enough

1511
01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 1: to consider. When your alternative to John Assoff is a

1512
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:55,519
Speaker 1: guy who outsourced American jobs, you might lose. We all

1513
01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: know the problems with Michaels and Mastriano and Bulduk because

1514
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 1: the consultant class that loves my Tathan McSally would prefer

1515
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 1: to focus on the problems in Magaworld. But maga World

1516
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 1: only exists because of the consultant class. Again, most Republican

1517
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:12,320
Speaker 1: primary voters in twenty sixteen actually picked someone other than

1518
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. He is loved by a chunk of the

1519
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:19,000
Speaker 1: GOP base and then tolerated by some of it. The

1520
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,879
Speaker 1: math barely checks out in presidentials, as we've seen twice,

1521
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:25,759
Speaker 1: and clearly doesn't check out in midterms. The electoral failures

1522
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:29,800
Speaker 1: of MAGA do not vindicate the electoral appeal or the

1523
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:34,719
Speaker 1: platform of the establishment GOP rewinding the clock, but adding

1524
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:38,600
Speaker 1: a populist gloss see doctor Oz's weird campaign is just

1525
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: not the answer, just like crazy people aren't the answer either.

1526
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: What's happening right now shouldn't totally depress conservative voters, though

1527
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:49,439
Speaker 1: it's kind of the natural result of voters pushing their

1528
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 1: party to transition, and that won't be clean and easy

1529
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,839
Speaker 1: in a country that's under major transition too. These races

1530
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:59,000
Speaker 1: are also not easily nationalized. What we're seeing is just

1531
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:02,800
Speaker 1: this tug of war, and that's perfectly normal. Now. I

1532
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 1: know it's asking a whole lot for politicians to believe

1533
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:09,400
Speaker 1: in anything, so I won't do that. But Republicans can't

1534
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 1: just talk about the border in China then sit back

1535
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:15,400
Speaker 1: and support, say Mitch McConnell's leadership as he lets Democrats

1536
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:18,400
Speaker 1: and members of his own party pass bad bill after

1537
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:21,679
Speaker 1: bad bill without even mounting much of a fight. What's

1538
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 1: the Republican plan to lower health care costs and increase

1539
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 1: health care quality. What's the Republican plan to reform asylum

1540
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:31,760
Speaker 1: laws that we can undercut cartel trafficking secure Americans and

1541
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:34,800
Speaker 1: make space for refugees. What's the Republican plan to make

1542
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 1: housing more affordable, to boost stagnant wages, to fix schools,

1543
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:41,559
Speaker 1: to reform the Pentagon, to deal with the mental health crisis,

1544
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:44,680
Speaker 1: the obesity crisis. How can they help cities beyond just

1545
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:49,960
Speaker 1: firing radical prosecutors. You can talk about inflation and woke education, sure,

1546
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:53,280
Speaker 1: But for the past twenty years, even as material comforts

1547
01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:57,759
Speaker 1: have expanded, American happiness has dipped. That does not demand

1548
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:01,599
Speaker 1: the old playbook. It demands something completely different, even if

1549
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 1: it's based on the same principles. Republicans aren't talking about

1550
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,080
Speaker 1: some of these issues, and even when they are, they

1551
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:11,559
Speaker 1: aren't offering actual alternatives that voters take seriously, nor should they.

1552
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:14,799
Speaker 1: For the most part, right now, some ten Republican senators

1553
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:18,160
Speaker 1: are reportedly considering a bipartisan immigration bill that could well

1554
01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:21,280
Speaker 1: make the border situation even worse. It doesn't matter if

1555
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:24,639
Speaker 1: you're Martha McSally or herschel Walker. If you can't answer

1556
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:27,120
Speaker 1: those questions in a way that makes sense to voters,

1557
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:31,120
Speaker 1: Republicans will continue picking people like Tim Michaels, like Blake

1558
01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:34,720
Speaker 1: Masters in primary races, because if you're asking people to

1559
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 1: choose between someone molded into shape by a consultant cookie

1560
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:43,679
Speaker 1: cutter and someone who's promising to metaphorically blow DC up,

1561
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:46,000
Speaker 1: a whole lot of people are going to vote for

1562
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:48,439
Speaker 1: the explosion, and a whole lot of people are just

1563
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 1: going to stay home. Great place to end. Happy Thursday, everybody,

1564
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:03,040
Speaker 1: don't read the New York Times in solidarity or ever.

1565
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:05,920
Speaker 1: We won't be back. We did. We gave you two

1566
01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:09,000
Speaker 1: shows this week, so there'll be no counterpoints Friday. Crystal

1567
01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 1: and Saga, we'll be back next week. They're out on

1568
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:13,320
Speaker 1: their their live tour right now. I got a complaint

1569
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 1: that they didn't hit the West coast. I consider this

1570
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:19,360
Speaker 1: now me relaying that to them, but I'll relay it

1571
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:22,760
Speaker 1: to them personally. We'll be back next week, and so

1572
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:25,479
Speaker 1: will Crystal and Sager, Thanks everybody for watching. Ryan grahamam

1573
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:27,439
Speaker 1: Ly Jasinski. We'll see you then, see you later.