Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When
Speaker 1: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball.
Speaker 2: In a frid Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg,
Speaker 2: Friday Frida Egg, fridagg Bride Egg.
Speaker 1: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump
Speaker 1: course game. Welcome to the Friday Egg Golf Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Garrett Morrison, and today we're talking about how to carry
Speaker 1: out a golf course renovation on a very tight budget.
Speaker 1: My guest is Clay Paine, who is the superintendent at
Speaker 1: Buffalo Dunes in Garden City, Kansas. Buffalo Dunes is a
Speaker 1: municipal golf course that you'll be hearing a lot about
Speaker 1: in the coming years, and that's because Clay Paine, along
Speaker 1: with the Archet Zach Vardy, is undertaking a six year
Speaker 1: renovation that is going to leave this course looking like
Speaker 1: a cross between prairie dunes and Wildhorse. That's not an exaggeration.
Speaker 1: The work really looks that good right now. And maybe
Speaker 1: the most impressive thing about this project is the cost.
Speaker 1: It's way less than most renovations that are happening today.
Speaker 1: There is a good article on this topic recently by
Speaker 1: Bradley Klein in the USGA Green Section Record. This article
Speaker 1: is called Managing the Rising Cost of Golf Course Renovations,
Speaker 1: And basically what I found out from this article is
Speaker 1: that the standard cost of major course renovations, and we're
Speaker 1: talking about replacing irrigation, drainage, greens, bunkers, cart paths, this
Speaker 1: has become sort of the standard renovation. It is a
Speaker 1: big project, but this is what we're used to talking
Speaker 1: about when we talk about updating a golf course. That
Speaker 1: sort of project has risen into the ten to twenty
Speaker 1: million dollar range, maybe higher. So jobs that used to
Speaker 1: cost five million are now more like fifteen million. And
Speaker 1: needless to say, that's that's a disturbing trend. It's obvious
Speaker 1: why it's happening. There are inflation issues, there are supply
Speaker 1: issues when it comes to the labor that carries out
Speaker 1: these projects, So I get why it's happening. But what
Speaker 1: the threat here is is an increase in the disparity
Speaker 1: between the affordable public golf that most of us play
Speaker 1: and the high end private and resort golf that sets
Speaker 1: the example for what golf course architecture should look like.
Speaker 1: That disparity is dangerous, right, and so one of the
Speaker 1: most important things that we can talk about right now
Speaker 1: in golf is how to do quality renovations on a budget. Now,
Speaker 1: Clay Pain is the first to admit that he has
Speaker 1: a lot of advantages at Buffalo Dunes. He's got a
Speaker 1: sandy site. There's no need for a new irrigation system.
Speaker 1: It's basically surface drainage throughout the site. They don't need
Speaker 1: the bunker liners and stuff like that. But it's still
Speaker 1: striking that he and Zach Vardy are doing the kinds
Speaker 1: of things that at most courses are costing millions of
Speaker 1: dollars and Clay and zachert doing them for tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars instead with the help of Clay's staff.
Speaker 1: So I figure it's incredibly worthwhile to get his perspective
Speaker 1: on how exactly he's managing this. Clay is a super
Speaker 1: impressive young superintendent. I think he just gets it in
Speaker 1: a number of ways, whether you're talking about agronomy or
Speaker 1: architecture or the culture that he's trying to develop within
Speaker 1: his staff. So I'm very excited for you all to
Speaker 1: hear from him first. Though this episode is an installment
Speaker 1: in our Superintendent series. So of course it is brought
Speaker 1: to you by none other than Toro and specifically the
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Speaker 1: All right, let's get to Clay pain All right, I'm
Speaker 1: here with Clay Paine. Clay, you grew up in Cimarron, Kansas,
Speaker 1: about thirty minutes from where you currently work in Garden City, Kansas.
Speaker 1: This is the southwestern part of the state, maybe not
Speaker 1: a region that many people have been to. What kinds
Speaker 1: of golf courses did you grow up playing in the area.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cimarron is a nine hole golf course. I previously,
Speaker 2: until about fifth grade lived twenty miles north of town,
Speaker 2: and about fifth grade we moved in and at the
Speaker 2: time the nine hole golf course was sand greens, So
Speaker 2: I grew up playing the first two years sand green
Speaker 2: golf course, which is awesome. It's fun target golf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's like a thing in Kansas, right
Speaker 1: is the sand green courses are a part of the
Speaker 1: golf culture out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they still have a sand green State championship, so
Speaker 2: it's of a cool niche of the golf market. But
Speaker 2: about two thousand, the community came together and raised funds
Speaker 2: and actually built all of a brand new nine hole
Speaker 2: golf course. So they did all of the irrigation, they
Speaker 2: did all of the the grassing, they built a clubhouse.
Speaker 2: Looking back on it now, that was kind of maybe
Speaker 2: the roots that I've built upon, you know, into this
Speaker 2: current project and how we're doing it. But you know,
Speaker 2: at the time, it was a blast being a fifth
Speaker 2: sixth grader going up after school and working with your
Speaker 2: with your dad and putting an irrigation and building a
Speaker 2: golf course.
Speaker 1: I was wondering about this actually because I looked up
Speaker 1: Cimarron on Google Earth and saw this little, nice looking
Speaker 1: golf course right next to town, like it's right pressed
Speaker 1: up against the town. And I saw that it was
Speaker 1: built in the early two thousands, and I figured this
Speaker 1: must have been when you were a kid. So you
Speaker 1: were actually you actually saw this project kind of play out.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we're I was able to just walk across
Speaker 2: the street and so I was right there in the
Speaker 2: middle of it, and uh yeah, seeing it go from
Speaker 2: the sand greens to we They hired out the shaping,
Speaker 2: but everything else was done through community members and volunteers.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was kind of cool to see that,
Speaker 2: especially at an early age.
Speaker 1: So going back to the sand greens, you know, can
Speaker 1: you can you can you just describe from somebody who's
Speaker 1: never you know, I've actually never played on sand greens.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a hole in my golf resume. I've
Speaker 1: seen people play on them. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people maybe aren't even familiar with how you would go
Speaker 1: about playing golf on sand greens, So what's what's the
Speaker 1: whole process there?
Speaker 2: Uh, that golf course was non irrigated, so it's all
Speaker 2: buffalo grass fairways and tea's tea areas. And then once
Speaker 2: you get up to the green we're talking, they're not
Speaker 2: contour because they don't want the sand to wash away,
Speaker 2: so they're flat, and then they have an oiled sand
Speaker 2: and that sand being oiled can pass and so you
Speaker 2: and I hit onto the green and then there's utensils
Speaker 2: that are setting aside the green, and you go and
Speaker 2: you drag an iron from you mark your ball, put
Speaker 2: it to the side, and then you drag a line
Speaker 2: with that iron, and then you put your ball and
Speaker 2: then you go back in like you were raking a
Speaker 2: bunker and you re rake it for the golfers behind you.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. I love that. And you know, there are
Speaker 1: a few places of course in Kansas as well as
Speaker 1: elsewhere that still have sand greens, some that are in
Speaker 1: extreme climates and things like that where they can't have
Speaker 1: you know the typical kinds of golf turf grasses. But
Speaker 1: it's definitely it's it's a way to play. You can
Speaker 1: do it like they roll pretty nicely for what they
Speaker 1: are right.
Speaker 2: Well, And it's just kind of a pure form of golf.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be perfect. You're just going out
Speaker 2: there because you want to swing and be with your friends,
Speaker 2: and so, yeah, I think that that could catch on.
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be I mean, it might be
Speaker 2: part golf. It might be a little pitch and put
Speaker 2: sand green course in your park, you know, so it
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be the full full deal. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a pure fun way to play and grow up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly a way to keep maintenance costs under
Speaker 1: control and under control as well, you know, with the
Speaker 1: changing climate and all that. So, you know, fast forwarding
Speaker 1: a little bit in your life, you ended up going,
Speaker 1: assuming my research is right here, you ended up going
Speaker 1: to Hutchinson Community College for a couple of years before
Speaker 1: transferring to k State where you did your your turf degree.
Speaker 1: When you were in Hutchinson, did you spend any time
Speaker 1: at the famous Prairie Dunes Country Club, one of the
Speaker 1: greatest courses in the world.
Speaker 2: I did not, and it is one of the one
Speaker 2: of my all time regretsive, but what I let an
Speaker 2: opportunity definitely slip. You know, at the time, I thought
Speaker 2: that my way into golf was chasing the golf ball
Speaker 2: around and playing, and so I didn't didn't even think
Speaker 2: about the maintenance side of it thoroughly. At that point.
Speaker 2: I had worked on golf courses, but you know, still
Speaker 2: was probably young and arrogant enough to think that I
Speaker 2: could do this for a living. And yeah, one of
Speaker 2: my biggest regrets Corey then superintendent there now that they're
Speaker 2: an inspiration for for Buffalo Dunes and really Midwest golf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the work that you're doing at Buffalo Dunes,
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about later on, has the distinct look
Speaker 1: of it looks like prairie dunes like it really, it
Speaker 1: really looks quite a bit like that, which is pretty
Speaker 1: cool to see. So you said you were mainly into
Speaker 1: competitive golf when you were younger. What's what's the basic
Speaker 1: summary of your of your competitive career.
Speaker 2: I didn't ever win a high school tournament, so that
Speaker 2: should have been an indicator in a league. Ross Goobell
Speaker 2: went on and played Division one golf and he beat
Speaker 2: me by one every time, So it wasn't I wasn't
Speaker 2: overly far from playing competitive golf, but far enough away
Speaker 2: that there was red flags that if I was aware,
Speaker 2: I should should have detoured earlier on. So yeah, good
Speaker 2: enough to think I was good, bad enough to not
Speaker 2: ever be good.
Speaker 1: When did you figure out that you wanted to start
Speaker 1: to work toward the career in turf.
Speaker 2: It was probably about that same time. So I came
Speaker 2: back home and worked at Simmron, and I was fortunate
Speaker 2: enough the superintendent took me to one of the superintendent
Speaker 2: state golf tournaments. And that's a funny story how this
Speaker 2: all rolled and played out. But I drove a green
Speaker 2: and the person in front of me got mad and
Speaker 2: kicked my ball off the green. Well, later on it
Speaker 2: was all superintendent, so it wasn't that big a deal.
Speaker 2: Later on in the clubhouse, this person was Trampis Nickel.
Speaker 2: He was the superintendent at Wamigo Country Club, which is
Speaker 2: twenty miles from Kansas State, and he offered me a job,
Speaker 2: and so I took the job. He hires only Western
Speaker 2: Kansas kids, so I didn't have to go through a
Speaker 2: resume thing. We're kind of the ad kind of farm
Speaker 2: side of the state, so he thought that that background
Speaker 2: worked well for his staff. And yeah, that was the
Speaker 2: break I needed in my career, because he led me
Speaker 2: on and pushed me to Jackson Hole and he had
Speaker 2: this kind of snowball.
Speaker 1: From there you went to a number of different places.
Speaker 1: Eventually you found your way to Dismal River, which for
Speaker 1: people who are familiar with the famous sand Hills Country
Speaker 1: Club out near Mullen, Nebraska and the spectacular sand Hills
Speaker 1: of Nebraska, Dismal River is the neighboring course and came
Speaker 1: up a little bit later after sand Hills was built.
Speaker 1: You were working there? How did you? How did you
Speaker 1: get there? What was the impetus to for applying for
Speaker 1: that job? Getting that job?
Speaker 2: So I traveled sixteen hours to Jackson Hole, Wyoming and
Speaker 2: took the internship up there. The assistant superintendent turned out
Speaker 2: he grew up in Cimarron, Kansas. Oh wow, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: a small world. After that season in Jackson he took
Speaker 2: the superintendent job at Disneal River and asked if I
Speaker 2: would like to come on board. So I, after school
Speaker 2: went up there and was an assistant superintendent. At the
Speaker 2: time of when I was hired was just the Nicholas Course.
Speaker 2: I think it was Jack Nicholas's two hundred and fiftieth design,
Speaker 2: So there was some cool stuff with that. It's an
Speaker 2: exceptionally hard golf course, but the setting is spectacular. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I was up there for two seasons and then the
Speaker 2: ownership decided, Hey, there's an opportunity to do a second
Speaker 2: golf course, and that's I was fortunate enough to be
Speaker 2: be in those discussions and hire a firm and go
Speaker 2: through that process.
Speaker 1: And this firm was Renaissance Golf Design. This is Tom
Speaker 1: Doak's architecture firm. I think that listeners have probably heard
Speaker 1: of this little outfit. You were on board during that
Speaker 1: construction process. This is kind of a legendary project now
Speaker 1: because of who was working on it, right, there was
Speaker 1: there was a crew of very talented people there who
Speaker 1: have gone on to do interesting things in the golf industry.
Speaker 1: So who was there and tell me a little bit
Speaker 1: about what it was like working with them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually wrote down a list because this is
Speaker 2: this is one of the highlights of my career. Was
Speaker 2: kind of being the ag side, the soil side to
Speaker 2: this band. Right we were Anyone that's traveled to Mullen,
Speaker 2: Nebraska knows that it's there's nothing else to do out
Speaker 2: there for the most part. And so we would wake
Speaker 2: up in the morning and we were it was golf
Speaker 2: course construction, and we came in uh myself and the
Speaker 2: superintendent would cook lunch for everyone, and it was golf
Speaker 2: course construction talk at that point, and then we would
Speaker 2: go do it again and then at night. And it
Speaker 2: was just that way for for a full, you know,
Speaker 2: growing cycle. And so uh some of the interns that
Speaker 2: are was there, Uh Zach Vardy, Blake, Coenamp, Brett Hawk's team, Yaeger,
Speaker 2: Coke Fitch, Clyde Johnson, Jonathan Reaesner, Connor Cummings, Ryan Yohans,
Speaker 2: James Burt uh and those are just the interns like this.
Speaker 2: That was just that was just the young guns that
Speaker 2: were out there with with Rakes and it was a blast.
Speaker 2: And then they they were learning from the best. You
Speaker 2: had Don Mahaffey and slam Brian Slonik and Brian Schneider
Speaker 2: there and all of the upper echelon of Renaissance and
Speaker 2: uh just created a wonderful environment. I was very fortunate
Speaker 2: to be the grass guy in that band.
Speaker 1: What did you learn about construction from seeing this process
Speaker 1: play out? From seeing you know, Tom Doak lead a
Speaker 1: project and Brian Schneider Brian Islonic implemented what were some
Speaker 1: of the big takeaways about just what it means to
Speaker 1: build a golf course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they obviously can say it in a more elegant way,
Speaker 2: but less is more, especially when you're on such a
Speaker 2: site that's blessed, you know, like like the sand Hills
Speaker 2: of Nebrasko are and so that that was fantastic. It
Speaker 2: was also pretty humbling to see the guys that are
Speaker 2: at the top of their industry, you know, allow some
Speaker 2: of us to fail to push the limits and hey,
Speaker 2: go go try something after hours, Go take a dozer
Speaker 2: and see if you can make something cool. You know,
Speaker 2: if it doesn't work out, we'll push it in tomorrow
Speaker 2: and we'll start over. That's you know, with only sand tunes,
Speaker 2: you can get away with that. You know, it's not
Speaker 2: a major cost issue. So being able to kind of
Speaker 2: push the boundaries in some in some ways and trust
Speaker 2: trust those young guys to see their potential was probably
Speaker 2: the biggest takeaway.
Speaker 1: As an It doesn't have to be perfect right away.
Speaker 1: You can go go out there, mess around and then
Speaker 1: and then if it needs to be fixed, you can
Speaker 1: fix it later.
Speaker 2: I guess, Yeah, that's why they're there, That's why the
Speaker 2: the pros. Pros are there to mess up any anything.
Speaker 2: But there was probably some cool features that came out
Speaker 2: of that, and they would know more behind the scenes
Speaker 2: than I did even of what was what was left
Speaker 2: and what was you know, kind of pushed back and
Speaker 2: amended later.
Speaker 1: Well, So for people who aren't really familiar with how
Speaker 1: like a construction crew is structured, you know, you were
Speaker 1: overseeing kind of the growing or the turf aspects of
Speaker 1: the construction process. What does that mean, Like what were
Speaker 1: you doing on a day to day basis during construction
Speaker 1: and did you get in and do any shaping or
Speaker 1: watch shaping or you know, do some of the architectural
Speaker 1: sides of it as well as the agronomic side of it.
Speaker 2: I watched the shaping just because I was interested in that.
Speaker 2: A golfer and trying to understand, you know, their theory
Speaker 2: of you know, how the ground game, you know, was
Speaker 2: kind of new to me. You know, growing up on
Speaker 2: sand I was used to throwing it right to the
Speaker 2: flag and so just being around them was fantastic. You know,
Speaker 2: behind the scenes, we're making sure that you know, irrigations
Speaker 2: going in, you know, ahead of the grassing their shape.
Speaker 2: They're rough shaping at first, and then irrigation is going
Speaker 2: to follow that, and then those guys are going to
Speaker 2: come in and fine tune it so their process will
Speaker 2: go from a dozer down to a sand pro down
Speaker 2: to a rake. And at that point we had enough
Speaker 2: bottom on property that you know, we utilized the rake,
Speaker 2: you know, in fairways and other areas that typically didn't
Speaker 2: get that one inch difference, you know, might be lost
Speaker 2: in the eighty acres worth of fairways. Those guys were,
Speaker 2: they were nailed in it, and so it was fun.
Speaker 2: And then for us making sure we're ahead of them
Speaker 2: with irrigation, but then also coming back in once we've
Speaker 2: sprayed grass. You know, that's when it's kind of in
Speaker 2: our court as well, so making sure that the system
Speaker 2: is watering where it needs to be and fertility and
Speaker 2: everything else cool.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, that's that's quite an experience to
Speaker 1: have early in your career, and I'm sure we'll hear
Speaker 1: how it has has come to inform some of the
Speaker 1: stuff that you're doing recently. But you know, in between
Speaker 1: that experience at Dismal River and what you're doing now,
Speaker 1: my understanding is that you were at bally Meal, which
Speaker 1: is another fantastic Tom Doak golf course, this one in
Speaker 1: Holy Yoke, Colorado. How did you end up there?
Speaker 2: So during that time, at the end of the grow in,
Speaker 2: I was able to go up there and be the
Speaker 2: superintendent for the first year at Dismal River of actual golf.
Speaker 2: I wanted to see that project through from prairie to
Speaker 2: play and was able to accomplish that goal. But in
Speaker 2: the meantime I was fortunate enough to marry my wife, Samantha.
Speaker 2: Turns out Mullen isn't the place that she thought we
Speaker 2: needed to raise a family, and so there was a
Speaker 2: time when I needed to look at other options. Bally
Speaker 2: Neil was one of those. It fit the style that
Speaker 2: I had fallen in love in love with at Dismal
Speaker 2: River with the sand dunes, and Bally's about four years
Speaker 2: or four four miles or excuse me, four hours from
Speaker 2: Garden City, and so it was closer to people. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I went out there assistant superintendent under Lancelower and very
Speaker 2: fortunate the first year we were maintaining only a golf course,
Speaker 2: we were able to put in the I don't what
Speaker 2: the commons I think is what they call it is
Speaker 2: the one acre putting green.
Speaker 1: Right, it's a big putting green. If you can envision
Speaker 1: this like most of the buildings at Ballynial, the pro shop,
Speaker 1: the restaurant, the lodging that they have kind of forums,
Speaker 1: a courtyard, you know, and in the middle of this
Speaker 1: courtyard type thing, is this massive putting green.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Massive, like one hundred and one hundred and seventeen
Speaker 2: yard I think is the longest putt you can have.
Speaker 2: So so yeah, a lot bigger than what you're probably
Speaker 2: thinking as you're trying to visualize how big this green is.
Speaker 2: But yeah, again, I was a right place, right tom.
Speaker 2: I was fortunate enough to, you know, watch mister Goak
Speaker 2: walk out in the dunes and try to find his
Speaker 2: routing for the Mulligan course, which was the par three
Speaker 2: course that was added the second year that I was there.
Speaker 2: That was shaping, you know again, Brian Schnyder, Eric Iverson
Speaker 2: I think jumped in a couple of times since he's
Speaker 2: close and outside of the shaping, we did all the
Speaker 2: irrigation work in house. We did all the grow in
Speaker 2: as well, so that was a very busy summer but
Speaker 2: one of the coolest additions to a golf course, I
Speaker 2: think you can make.
Speaker 1: Bally Neil has some of the most distinctive turf conditions
Speaker 1: that I've ever experienced, certainly in America. So you know what,
Speaker 1: what's special about the turf there? What what enables that
Speaker 1: turf to be the way it is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the whole culture is what enables it
Speaker 2: to be cool. It does. It's not perfect, and that's
Speaker 2: not what this game is supposed to be. It's supposed
Speaker 2: to be. And you know an experience. We're chasing this
Speaker 2: little white ball around and having it, having a great time,
Speaker 2: and that's that's kind of the that's what you get
Speaker 2: from the moment you step on that property. And so
Speaker 2: turf conditions out there, the dry and firmness, create opportunities
Speaker 2: for you to play around. You're not worried about entering
Speaker 2: a gin handicap at bally Neal. You're going to try
Speaker 2: to make a shot that your friends want to remember
Speaker 2: and talk about, you know, at the bar later. And
Speaker 2: so I think it brings out a little bit of
Speaker 2: you know, childhood playing and the conditions come into that.
Speaker 2: You know, you if it's slow and soft, you're not
Speaker 2: going to be able to hit up, you know, a
Speaker 2: hybrid putt from fifty yards off the green and watch
Speaker 2: it take the slow And so that's where I think
Speaker 2: the conditions, you know, tie into the experience at balley Neil,
Speaker 2: and it's it's pretty unique. You know. Now, you can't
Speaker 2: go wall to wall rescue in most spots in America.
Speaker 2: The people that can are also the people we talk
Speaker 2: about the resorts that are the best. And you know,
Speaker 2: the turf quality and turf type definitely plays into that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's incredible turf and an incredible landscape.
Speaker 1: This might be not the way that you think about it,
Speaker 1: but if putting myself in the position of being a greenkeeper,
Speaker 1: a superintendent assistant superintendent at balan Neil, I would think
Speaker 1: of it as being almost a little bit scary to
Speaker 1: maintain turf that's that close to the edge. Did you
Speaker 1: ever experience it that way where you like, man, we
Speaker 1: are really as Jared Kalina, later superintendent at Balanil, puts it,
Speaker 1: did you really feel like you were riding the line
Speaker 1: and that this could like go wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. You think about a dry golf course in
Speaker 2: a typical American setting and you'll see the tire tracks,
Speaker 2: you know that are burnt out spots.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing my footprints. I mean that was I
Speaker 1: remember like creating footprints as like I've never seen this before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Vali, Neil. You see little brown footprints from the
Speaker 2: caddies and the players, and so yeah, that edge is
Speaker 2: definitely real. But again, the the culture, I mean, the
Speaker 2: guys aren't afraid of it because they see it from
Speaker 2: day one, and so you kind of understand it. You
Speaker 2: it'll come back to you know, we're worried about being
Speaker 2: perfect every single day. Well, we're trying to look at
Speaker 2: a big picture. It'll bounce back. It might, it might
Speaker 2: be a little brown for a second, but that that
Speaker 2: stuff's gonna be very hard to kill. And you know
Speaker 2: it's again it's it's the product over the process and
Speaker 2: just not we're not worried about being perfect. You know,
Speaker 2: there's gonna be weeds in the bunkers. There's gonna be
Speaker 2: bunkers that aren't right. That's that's fine out there.
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Speaker 1: more information. All right, let's get into talking a bit
Speaker 1: about what you're doing right now in your career. Maybe
Speaker 1: just start by giving me the basic download on Buffalo Dunes.
Speaker 1: How would you describe this course to someone who has
Speaker 1: has never heard of it?
Speaker 2: First and foremost, we're a municipal golf course where owned
Speaker 2: and operated by the City of Garden City, and that's
Speaker 2: been a major asset to what we're what we're doing now.
Speaker 2: I have three assistants, Mitch Chocolate, Brock Walter, and Brier Livermore.
Speaker 2: They're all local kids. Buffalo Dunes was our favorite golf
Speaker 2: course growing up for all of us, and so there's
Speaker 2: a great deal of pride in our staff on a
Speaker 2: daily basis. But seven years ago I was hired. I
Speaker 2: came in from vallely Neil as the assistant superintendent. At
Speaker 2: the time, Toby Watun was a superintendent and I took
Speaker 2: over shortly after him, within two months, I believe, And
Speaker 2: so I went that first year without a titled assistant superintendent.
Speaker 2: We had hired Mitch Chocoley, but he was still going
Speaker 2: through the university and wasn't able to graduate until December,
Speaker 2: and so I went to our assistant city manager, which
Speaker 2: was our direct boss at the time, and said, hey,
Speaker 2: can we use this budgeted fund to develop a master plan?
Speaker 2: The intent was not to we didn't know when we
Speaker 2: would be able to apply the master plan, but I
Speaker 2: if funds arose, we wanted to have that master plan
Speaker 2: in place, and so we started the architect you know
Speaker 2: search we went through. First of all, I think that
Speaker 2: and this is very important to any process, not special
Speaker 2: to municipalities, is we really understood the why initially our
Speaker 2: staff Our why is, you know, we want to go
Speaker 2: home and be great dads and great fathers, and by
Speaker 2: being able to implement this master plan, it was going
Speaker 2: to create the efficiencies that we could go out and
Speaker 2: produce an extremely good product, you know, with forty hour
Speaker 2: work weeks, which is kind of unheard of, you know
Speaker 2: in the agronomy side of things. You know. Secondly, and
Speaker 2: then you're trying to find the golfers why why is
Speaker 2: this project important to them? And the ladies didn't have
Speaker 2: their own, so we were trying to create, you know,
Speaker 2: the yardages that set up for good for women, for
Speaker 2: junior golfers, for our seniors as well. And then the
Speaker 2: community understanding, you know, why is this project. I'm a
Speaker 2: non golfer, so why should I support a master plan
Speaker 2: for Buffalo Dunes. Well, the economic impact that comes through
Speaker 2: this golf course and bringing people outside in is a
Speaker 2: huge thing. And then most importantly was the environmental side.
Speaker 2: This master plan allowed us, I think will allow us
Speaker 2: to save millions and millions of gallons of water annually.
Speaker 2: And then what does that look like over one hundred years.
Speaker 2: So we started up six year renovation, six phases. The
Speaker 2: timing for that was kind of twofold. A. We're doing
Speaker 2: it in house, and so I've got a staff of
Speaker 2: you know, eight people, seven eight people, and so three
Speaker 2: holes was about all we could take on per season
Speaker 2: and also maintain the other fifteen holes. Secondly was we
Speaker 2: built a nursery green that is about one acre, and
Speaker 2: that one acre nursery green supports three greens worth of
Speaker 2: turf every year. So we plant it in the spring
Speaker 2: for twelve hundred dollars. We harvest it in the fall
Speaker 2: to go out to the green site. So that's kind
Speaker 2: of how it all started. We can get into the
Speaker 2: nuts and bolts a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Oh we will. Yeah, I'm fascinated by this project. But
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, first of all, maybe you could
Speaker 1: just give me a picture of what the course looked
Speaker 1: like when you arrived. Yeah, were were some of the
Speaker 1: strengths of the course, What were the reasons that it
Speaker 1: was your favorite course growing up in the region, And
Speaker 1: then what were some of the issues that it had
Speaker 1: that needed to be addressed by this project that you're
Speaker 1: undertaking now.
Speaker 2: Extremely gifted site, So we are located at the south
Speaker 2: end of a natural dune site, so the soil structure
Speaker 2: is similar to dismal, it's similar to ballet neal and
Speaker 2: just sets us up really nicely. You can't replicate sand sites.
Speaker 2: If you do, it's gonna cost you millions and millions
Speaker 2: and millions. So that's a number one. Uh. Number two
Speaker 2: is when this when the property was donated, it was
Speaker 2: it was in the the fine print that there was
Speaker 2: to be no housing built around it. So we don't
Speaker 2: have any housing. We're surrounded by agfields and sand dunes,
Speaker 2: you know, so that's kind of unique, especially for a
Speaker 2: municipal golf course. We would think of them always tucked
Speaker 2: into the city, beautiful rolling hills topography. They really there's
Speaker 2: a there's not a lot of flat lies, which you
Speaker 2: think Western Kansas, that's all I'm going to have. We
Speaker 2: have some you know. Now we have two skyline greens.
Speaker 2: First hole, you think, why did I drive out here?
Speaker 2: And the first approach shot you're like, okay, well this
Speaker 2: is this is as advertised. Yeah, so I think it
Speaker 2: was all that, you know together. The downside, I think,
Speaker 2: you know, we've seen the potential with the prior history
Speaker 2: of seeing these these really nice sand dune sites of
Speaker 2: what it could be, and at the time there was
Speaker 2: there was probably four to five hundred pine and cedar
Speaker 2: trees on the property. That were planted in the eighties.
Speaker 1: Not non native trees. These are the trees don't want
Speaker 1: to native.
Speaker 2: Native vegetation in our area is yucka and sagebrush.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's not really a treed area. It's not
Speaker 1: at all. It's the plains.
Speaker 2: And so that was part of the plan, was to
Speaker 2: go ahead and take out some of those corridors open
Speaker 2: up these vistas. That makes this property special. So that
Speaker 2: was probably the hardest thing. Another benefit that I didn't
Speaker 2: I forgot to mention, but should is we had an
Speaker 2: irrigation system installed in two twenty fourteen, and so it
Speaker 2: was relatively new, so all the building blocks were there
Speaker 2: before me. I'm the fourth superintendent in fifty years. Bob
Speaker 2: Blummel was certified superintendent for thirty plus years. He's now
Speaker 2: on our seasonal staff. Everything was set in line. I'm
Speaker 2: just this is just the next echalon of improving it agonomically.
Speaker 2: It was sound, irrigation was in and now this project
Speaker 2: is elevating it even more.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that the initial bit of funding that you
Speaker 1: needed to execute, not execute a master plan, but create
Speaker 1: a master plan even to like start the process came
Speaker 1: from kind of like defrayd salary for an assistant who
Speaker 1: was going to come later. This is kind of the
Speaker 1: first of what I interpret to be a number of
Speaker 1: really clever financial moves that you've made in the process
Speaker 1: of carrying out this project. How have you put together
Speaker 1: the funding for what you've done over the past couple
Speaker 1: of years and what you're going to continue to do
Speaker 1: over the next few years. Where are you finding these
Speaker 1: little nooks and crannies where you can get the money
Speaker 1: to do this stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd like to reiterate this is an incredibly blessed
Speaker 2: site and so the normal construction some of the things
Speaker 2: that has to happen on other sites does not have
Speaker 2: to happen on our site. We're semi arid, so sixteen
Speaker 2: inches of rainfall a year, So if a bunker washes out,
Speaker 2: we're excited about it. I mean, it finally rained on
Speaker 2: the golf course and everything's good, so no drainage. We
Speaker 2: don't have to line our bunkers. Were digging into natural
Speaker 2: dune site, and so there's a lot of expense that's
Speaker 2: not going to be included in this project just becau
Speaker 2: because of the blessing of the site. And so the
Speaker 2: first couple of years we would do three greens and
Speaker 2: green complexes for thirty thousand dollars, and that money was
Speaker 2: typically found through budget savings through both the maintenance side
Speaker 2: and the clubhouse side of the budget. So overall budget
Speaker 2: we would try to say that thirty thousand and then
Speaker 2: that's what we would use. Every labor day. We would
Speaker 2: go into a renovation and we would strip away the
Speaker 2: old sod. That old turf that was on our greens
Speaker 2: was really high quality, and so that was donated to
Speaker 2: local nine hole golf courses. I think that there's seven
Speaker 2: to eight golf courses that now used our old bent
Speaker 2: grass to take to their properties and upgrading them as well,
Speaker 2: which now has turned it into a Western Kansas project.
Speaker 2: We build our own nursery, right so hunt we do
Speaker 2: that for twelve one hundred dollars. That would be one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty grand worth of sod if we were
Speaker 2: to if we were to purchase at a sad outsite.
Speaker 2: We're identifying areas around the golf course, say in between
Speaker 2: tea boxes, that are bluegrass. Well. Part our biggest mission
Speaker 2: is to take care of our most precious resource, which
Speaker 2: is our water, and so we want to remove as
Speaker 2: much irrigated acreage as we can. So we've identified areas
Speaker 2: that aren't typically played in in between teas, we're ripping
Speaker 2: that bluegrass out. That bluegrass is then transplanted to around
Speaker 2: the green, so we're not buying any new sad from
Speaker 2: the disruption of the New New Deal. And then the
Speaker 2: following year those bluegrass areas are then converted to non
Speaker 2: irrigated native and so we've we're getting efficiencies through not
Speaker 2: having to mow it twice a week, not having to
Speaker 2: water it nightly, not having to fertilize it. Esthetically, it's
Speaker 2: much better. You start to break up the camouflage of green.
Speaker 2: You know that you can't fill the topography rolling. Now
Speaker 2: we've got different hues and colors, and that's you know,
Speaker 2: we're starting to fill this site, really start to move
Speaker 2: again through through that one turf conversion.
Speaker 1: So you know, lots of different little efficiencies and you're
Speaker 1: finding ways to do this project quite cheaply. You mentioned
Speaker 1: three greens for thirty thousand dollars or something to that effect,
Speaker 1: and you know, I can't tell you how much lower
Speaker 1: of a number that is than just about any other
Speaker 1: renovation that I've covered or talked about over the past
Speaker 1: few years. And as you say, part of it is
Speaker 1: because the site is obviously wonderful and sandy, and you
Speaker 1: don't have to do a lot of things that other
Speaker 1: courses have to do. But you also obviously deserve credit
Speaker 1: for being very economical with things. So the architecture side
Speaker 1: of this, you're doing a lot of this work in house,
Speaker 1: as I understand it, with your staff. That's why you're
Speaker 1: doing just a couple of holes at a time. You're
Speaker 1: leveraging your your in house staff to do quite a
Speaker 1: bit of this work. But you also have the assistance
Speaker 1: of some architecture minds. So who are the architects who
Speaker 1: are involved in this project or is it just one architect?
Speaker 1: I actually don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the master plan was developed by Todd Clark and
Speaker 2: Zach Vrdy. Todd is a local architect here in Kansas,
Speaker 2: and Zach, outside of this project, works almost exclusively with
Speaker 2: Core Crenshaw. I had the relationship with him at Dismal River.
Speaker 2: But as we're going through that search and we knew
Speaker 2: our why, what was important to us, it became pretty
Speaker 2: obvious that these two guys fit what the city was
Speaker 2: looking to do. Zach is as you know Core Crenshaw,
Speaker 2: their work is just incredible and the shapers that they
Speaker 2: have worked with them or just artists, and so we're
Speaker 2: very lucky to have Zach come in each year. It
Speaker 2: is pretty funny. We've we've rented the doser for three weeks,
Speaker 2: but outside of those three weeks total, he's done everything
Speaker 2: with a Minix and a two foot bucket. You know,
Speaker 2: we've had like we've done the renovation with seven tools
Speaker 2: basically a chainsaw, a sidecutter, a tractor, you know, a
Speaker 2: Mini X, a bobcap. It's it's very bare bones, but
Speaker 2: you know everyone has bought into it, and not just
Speaker 2: our staff but the community as well well.
Speaker 1: So then when you're thinking of doing one of these
Speaker 1: rounds of improvements on the course, what do you assign
Speaker 1: to yourself and your staff and what does Zach Vardi
Speaker 1: the shaper take care of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we will go in and identify work area, workspace.
Speaker 2: One thing that we have done, and we did this
Speaker 2: at the very beginning, was because this irrigation system is
Speaker 2: so new, because expenses are so low, you're gonna have
Speaker 2: to work within the confines of the current irrigation system.
Speaker 2: You have total freedom to go up, you can go over,
Speaker 2: but we're not moving irrigation heads. And so that's really
Speaker 2: kind of at the beginning this picture frame he felt
Speaker 2: maybe restricted, but we've came up with some really, he's
Speaker 2: came up with some really cool options because of it
Speaker 2: that I don't think we would have previously. So we'll
Speaker 2: pick out the site that he wants to work in,
Speaker 2: he'll he'll flag it off, we'll remove the sod, we'll
Speaker 2: remove any of the trees that are in that area,
Speaker 2: and then we get out of his way, let him
Speaker 2: do the work, and then we're going behind him and
Speaker 2: regrassing afterwards.
Speaker 1: And then how would you characterize the way that the
Speaker 1: holes change before after right? You know, if you could
Speaker 1: give people an idea of what these holes. I know
Speaker 1: this is hard on a podcast. You know, the pictures
Speaker 1: probably do the best job of this, but you know,
Speaker 1: I've looked at the aerial imagery and it is incredibly
Speaker 1: obvious which holes are belong to the old version of
Speaker 1: the course and which holes have been reshaped, rethought by
Speaker 1: your crew and by Zach Vardy. And so what is
Speaker 1: the nature of the change that is taking place here?
Speaker 1: What are the holes? What shape are the holes? Starting
Speaker 1: to take Now.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest compliment that we get each time
Speaker 2: is how natural it looks. And so you think of
Speaker 2: these you know, these natural dune sites, they have blowouts
Speaker 2: and whatnot, and that's kind of how these rough edge
Speaker 2: you know, native bunkers are trying to mimic, but it
Speaker 2: just feels right. It's open. People are getting the vistas
Speaker 2: that they hadn't had in you know, decades, and so
Speaker 2: it's going back to a more we're playing off the land,
Speaker 2: which again we were blessed with an incredible sight, and
Speaker 2: so opening those those corridors up again, you know, removing
Speaker 2: a pine tree, taking a tree from behind the green
Speaker 2: to create you know, a long shot, to pull your
Speaker 2: eye off the green and remember, oh we're this is
Speaker 2: an experience, like I'm not just grinding over a golf
Speaker 2: ball and trying to you know, focus. They're they're now
Speaker 2: looking around and feeling the golf course as much as
Speaker 2: they are playing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a more naturalistic appearance with the bunkers, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of the blowout style edge. What kind of reshaping
Speaker 1: is happening with the greens? How is how is that
Speaker 1: playing out?
Speaker 2: The original architect was Frank Hummel, and he drew up
Speaker 2: the blueprints and then handed them off to a secondary
Speaker 2: firm to implement his ideas well. The firm wasn't a
Speaker 2: golf course firm, and they're they're just not going to
Speaker 2: be as precise as as they are today. And so
Speaker 2: we will we will look at the we'll look at
Speaker 2: the original blueprints and use those as inspiration and kind
Speaker 2: of bring back some of the features that we believe
Speaker 2: are you know, we're interesting at the time. We're expanding
Speaker 2: the greens back out to bigger dimensions. This is a
Speaker 2: very windy sight and so we need all of the
Speaker 2: all of the surface on the green and short grass
Speaker 2: around to be incorporated. So we're really looking at those
Speaker 2: original blueprints. And then Zach has the architectural freedom to
Speaker 2: to make any changes or implement any any feature that
Speaker 2: he would like to. It's really, i would think, kind
Speaker 2: of an architect's dream to yeah, go do what you
Speaker 2: want to do. We're the grass people and you're the
Speaker 2: pro so go make it happen.
Speaker 1: We have we haven't really talked too much about the
Speaker 1: history of the course. You mentioned the architect Frank Hummel,
Speaker 1: I believe is the name the course dates back to
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. You know, have you started to look
Speaker 1: much at the history of the course, is that you
Speaker 1: know a significant source of inspiration here.
Speaker 2: It was definitely played into as we were trying to
Speaker 2: pitch this. Why we need to start this project now
Speaker 2: is we're coming up on fiftieth year anniversary twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: and so Buffalo Dunes has been the public option in
Speaker 2: the state of Kansas for the first fifty years, and
Speaker 2: we wanted to really make sure that you know, this
Speaker 2: is something the community has taken pride in to this point,
Speaker 2: and it's something that we want them to be proud
Speaker 2: of for the next fifty years. And this project allows
Speaker 2: us to do that.
Speaker 1: Cool. So I want to go back to something you
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. I want to wanted to make sure to
Speaker 1: get into it a little bit. You mentioned you built
Speaker 1: created a turf nurser. What what is the importance of taking
Speaker 1: that step in a project like this.
Speaker 2: It's got to be one of the first steps. It
Speaker 2: gives you a ton of freedom, regardless of if you're
Speaker 2: going to do a project or not. There's so many
Speaker 2: variables when it comes to mother Nature. You know, she's
Speaker 2: not always going to be kind to us during the
Speaker 2: winter months, and so having a nursery gives us an
Speaker 2: opportunity to repair damage without having to try to grow
Speaker 2: back in during the spring and people are trying to
Speaker 2: play golf and those conditions just kind of lag through.
Speaker 2: We don't know about vandalism, you know, then we have
Speaker 2: an opportunity to patch that stuff up quickly. It's having
Speaker 2: a nursery as everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah and uh. And then also, because you've been developing
Speaker 1: some of this turf, you've been able to go around
Speaker 1: and provide turf for other places in the area. Could
Speaker 1: you explain that to me a little more? What exactly
Speaker 1: is happening here.
Speaker 2: So let's just use Whole one as an example. We're
Speaker 2: going to renovate Whole one this fall. That green will
Speaker 2: be stripped out and so we'll do sod cuts and
Speaker 2: we will inform the local nine hole golf courses maybe
Speaker 2: two months ahead of time. Hey, this is when we're
Speaker 2: starting our project. If you'd like to come and check
Speaker 2: it out. You know, we're going to get rid of
Speaker 2: this old variety. It's still super quality. If you would
Speaker 2: like to, you know, take it to your property and
Speaker 2: do with it how you wish. We would love to
Speaker 2: give it to you, we're gonna don't. We don't have
Speaker 2: a current need for it because we're going to replace
Speaker 2: it with the brand new bent grass that's on our
Speaker 2: nursery and so yeah, it's as simple as that. We
Speaker 2: cut it out, we put it on palletts, they pick
Speaker 2: it up, and they go and put it on their
Speaker 2: property and get enjoy it.
Speaker 1: It's one way of kind of strengthening ties between the
Speaker 1: golf course and the community. And you know, in the
Speaker 1: times that I've heard you talk about this project before,
Speaker 1: you've emphasized the role that the community, the local and
Speaker 1: regional community has played in helping with this renovation. So
Speaker 1: what are some of the various ways that people who
Speaker 1: live in the area have become involved in what you're
Speaker 1: doing here?
Speaker 2: This is this is probably my proudest point of with
Speaker 2: this project. There's going to be a lot of cool
Speaker 2: architectural things that come out of it. Golfers are going
Speaker 2: to be able to enjoy it for a long time.
Speaker 2: It's going to be fantastic from the agronomy side, but
Speaker 2: the community is really the highlight of this project. So
Speaker 2: a few ways. Initially, we started as a municipality, we
Speaker 2: had some bluegrass left over, so we reached out to
Speaker 2: the parks and rec, the cemetery, the pool, anyone that
Speaker 2: may have a turf that they're taken care of. Hey,
Speaker 2: we have some of this available. You know, if this
Speaker 2: would help your facilities, come get it. And so we
Speaker 2: started building these relationships through that and they've just continued
Speaker 2: to strengthen over time. A good example of our process
Speaker 2: is the first year, it took us four days to
Speaker 2: lay the first green made. We made the mistake as
Speaker 2: maybe a little over arrogant people thinking we could do
Speaker 2: ourselves as a maintenance staff, and that was the incorrect decision.
Speaker 2: And so we've reached out, We've made these relationships through
Speaker 2: our municipality and now the all the departments come out
Speaker 2: and help laysad on a green. We laid the green
Speaker 2: this year with the city employees in three and a
Speaker 2: half hours. The police chief was there, the firefighters were there,
Speaker 2: the secretaries for parking rec were there. We've had over
Speaker 2: twenty different departments come out and be a part of
Speaker 2: this project. And you know, as well as I do,
Speaker 2: if you lay a green and you're out in this process,
Speaker 2: that comes your hole. Now you're going to go up
Speaker 2: every time you're playing that hole. They have a tie
Speaker 2: to it because they've kind of, you know, went through
Speaker 2: the mud with us in this process. It's a it's
Speaker 2: a hard job, but at the end of it, there's
Speaker 2: so much pride that's attached to it that they're ready
Speaker 2: to do it again. And then you know, you do
Speaker 2: a podcast with the Friday and they're going to blast
Speaker 2: it out because we were talking about their green and
Speaker 2: their project and it's no longer a golf course maintenance
Speaker 2: project or Buffalo Dunes. This is this has really evolved
Speaker 2: into a full community project.
Speaker 1: Have you noticed this kind of building up with each
Speaker 1: round of renovations you've done, because you know, one of
Speaker 1: the distinctive things about this project that you're doing is
Speaker 1: that it's stretched out over a number of years here,
Speaker 1: so you're kind of giving people a chance to get
Speaker 1: involved if they want, and if they get involved once,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they'll come back again and bring a
Speaker 1: few friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'd like to point out now too, you know,
Speaker 2: six years does feel like a long time, but if
Speaker 2: we step back and look at this as a as
Speaker 2: a big picture thing, as a golf course, it's evolving.
Speaker 2: You know, six six years is probably not that long
Speaker 2: of a deal. So I would those listeners out there
Speaker 2: that are thinking about doing a project. It doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be a turnkey thing. You can make these incremental
Speaker 2: changes and it's going to add up to something pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to add that, I think it
Speaker 1: should be more common that these projects last at least
Speaker 1: six years, right, because they tend to turn out better
Speaker 1: if if they're implemented over a long period of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Each each hole is because we have so much
Speaker 2: time with it, it becomes very intimate. We we think
Speaker 2: through each detail for a number of years before it's implemented.
Speaker 2: But again, it gives us, it gives the you know, volunteers,
Speaker 2: something to talk about for that year, and they're then
Speaker 2: they're wondering, what what are we going to you know,
Speaker 2: what greens are we doing next year? You know, and
Speaker 2: they're they're planning it and it's part of this cycle.
Speaker 2: Our high school girls, golf team, our wrestling team are
Speaker 2: to me, all of our golfers, non golfers have been
Speaker 2: a part of this project and it's it's a ton
Speaker 2: of fun when they come out and lay agreeing with us.
Speaker 1: What does your staff look like right now? You mentioned
Speaker 1: seven to eight employees. You know that's a that's a
Speaker 1: small staff, right, and so how have you found people
Speaker 1: and helped bring them along.
Speaker 2: It's a really cool culture over the last seven years. Actually,
Speaker 2: I had a one of my college kids reach out
Speaker 2: last week come on board, So we're already fully staffed.
Speaker 2: This year we didn't We don't have any We have
Speaker 2: all returning employees. The culture is extremely strong. These guys
Speaker 2: want to be a product part of this project. So
Speaker 2: I've got myself three assistants and mechanic, and then again
Speaker 2: I'm fortunate enough to have an extremely seasoned staff. I
Speaker 2: think that outside of that two three people and so
Speaker 2: one big thing for our renovations is when we do
Speaker 2: it is after labor day, and that that's when our
Speaker 2: soil tends to start cool down a little bit. You
Speaker 2: don't have to chase stuff around the golf course. And
Speaker 2: so two or three of those other guys, while we're
Speaker 2: throwing sod, they can be taking care of the golf
Speaker 2: course easily, and so we kind of the timing of
Speaker 2: it helps us out of ton.
Speaker 1: Gotcha, Okay? Now, you know when you say you're fully staffed.
Speaker 1: I bet there are a lot of superintendents out there
Speaker 1: who are like, you know, what is this witchcraft? How
Speaker 1: do you how do you manage to make this happen?
Speaker 1: And you know, it sounds like a lot of your
Speaker 1: staff is local, and so maybe maybe that's part of it.
Speaker 1: But you are in Garden City, Kansas. You're not in Denver,
Speaker 1: You're not in Kansas City. There's not a massive pool
Speaker 1: of potential labor to draw from. So what are some
Speaker 1: of the keys? Do you think? What are some of
Speaker 1: the secrets to getting people to want to come and
Speaker 1: work for you?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a again, this has turned into a community project,
Speaker 2: and so they're aware of it. They know that the
Speaker 2: golf course is an opportunity. They've they've probably been out
Speaker 2: there and they've seen it, and that they understand that
Speaker 2: it's a cool place to work. But you look at
Speaker 2: all these small towns and they're they're very prideful. You know,
Speaker 2: Josh at wild Horse probably doesn't have to go out
Speaker 2: and look for people because people want to be a
Speaker 2: part of wild Horse and sand Hills are the same way.
Speaker 2: These these small towns truly support these projects because it's
Speaker 2: a it's a pride thing for them. People think that
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of a lot of things to
Speaker 2: do in Mullin or or Holy Oaken. Maybe there isn't,
Speaker 2: but there is one thing, and that's the golf course.
Speaker 2: And and let's go be a part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's pretty clear. You know, from having
Speaker 1: talked to Kyle, hegland a lot at sand Hills about
Speaker 1: how he manages that. It's almost like he he might
Speaker 1: even find it easier to do what he's doing now
Speaker 1: because he's got that whole place absolutely on lock. You know,
Speaker 1: any any kid who he thinks has potential, he knows
Speaker 1: their name by the time they're twelve years old, and
Speaker 1: they're gonna come eventually work for him at sand Hills. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so sometimes this can work to your advantage being
Speaker 1: in a small town, definitely.
Speaker 2: And I think that the superintendent, Kyle's went out into
Speaker 2: that community and it's not just him asking for help.
Speaker 2: He's going out and helping the community. He's he's volunteering
Speaker 2: and coaching. He's he's in the community. And so when
Speaker 2: he yeah, he can identify the kids because he's around
Speaker 2: that community that go out and you know, I think
Speaker 2: Superintendent's often, you know, set back and don't go out
Speaker 2: and tell our stories or don't go out and try
Speaker 2: to build these relationships, because we tend to like to
Speaker 2: grow graps more than we like to talk to people,
Speaker 2: and so it was kind of a it's kind of
Speaker 2: our fault sometimes, but you've got to go out and
Speaker 2: make those connections, and you have to be the person
Speaker 2: to go out and do it first. They're not just
Speaker 2: going to come to you in most situations.
Speaker 1: I mean, especially since golf can be have a bit
Speaker 1: of an intimidation factor on its own, and so it's
Speaker 1: understandable why people might not come to you, come to
Speaker 1: you first, you know, just to break down the fourth
Speaker 1: wall here a little bit. You and I met at
Speaker 1: the National Links Trust Symposium in Washington, d C. Late
Speaker 1: last year, where you were part of a really excellent
Speaker 1: I thought agronomy superintendent panel, and so you know, I
Speaker 1: know from that that you had a lot of discussions
Speaker 1: with other municipal golf course superintendent's, municipal golf operators, fundraisers
Speaker 1: like you saw everything I did during that symposium, all
Speaker 1: the conversations that are going on about municipal golf stewardship
Speaker 1: and America and I thought that there were a lot
Speaker 1: of different perspectives. Right, you were representing one perspective of
Speaker 1: how to get a renovation done very cheaply and in
Speaker 1: house and locally through a community based method, and there
Speaker 1: were also some some other ways of doing it that
Speaker 1: were more kind of fundraising led where we were hearing
Speaker 1: about thirty million dollars being raised for projects and things
Speaker 1: like that. So, you know, I'm curious just your what
Speaker 1: your big takeaways from that symposium were. What are some
Speaker 1: of the things that you're still thinking about having experienced that.
Speaker 2: The first thing is, you know, we Buffalo Dunes prides
Speaker 2: itself on being accessible and affordable, and that's driven a
Speaker 2: lot of the reasons that we've done these things in house.
Speaker 2: Would my staff prefer that we have an irrigation crew
Speaker 2: come in or someone else come in and do the sod, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we would, but we all so we also believe that
Speaker 2: by doing it in house we can maintain our twenty
Speaker 2: five dollars green fee. That's awesome. You know, we think
Speaker 2: that everyone should be able to play this game, and
Speaker 2: municipal golf I think maybe in the past has had
Speaker 2: a bad rap of maybe conditions or you know, different
Speaker 2: things like that service may not be always the best,
Speaker 2: but to me, it really is the purest form of
Speaker 2: the sport that we have still here. People are going
Speaker 2: out and it's not the conditions again, it's it's who
Speaker 2: you're with, and it's it's I want to go out
Speaker 2: and play. After a blue collar approach, I got to
Speaker 2: go work a job, but I'm going to come out
Speaker 2: and play men's and women's leagues. And I think that
Speaker 2: the municipal side needs to really use that to their advantage.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of cool aspects that come along with
Speaker 2: that that maybe you don't get at a club, you know,
Speaker 2: where there's other things that factor into that experience. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that you pal they should be proud of
Speaker 2: providing this type of outdoor activity and you know, providing
Speaker 2: that green space for your community is very important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it strikes me as you're describing why you're
Speaker 1: doing things in house, it's not that it's not that
Speaker 1: you all love every second of it. It's not that
Speaker 1: it's easy, right, It's not that people wouldn't rather be
Speaker 1: maybe doing day to day maintenance and just doing their
Speaker 1: normal jobs. It's hard to do this stuff, but there's
Speaker 1: a commitment to keeping the green fee low and a
Speaker 1: recognition that what you do now and the way you
Speaker 1: do it has an effect down the line. And that's
Speaker 1: something that sometimes I see people maybe not thinking about.
Speaker 1: It's okay, let's hire this contractor, or yeah, let's accept
Speaker 1: these millions of dollars from somebody. Well, once that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff starts to enter the equation, the identity of
Speaker 1: the course changes a little bit, right.
Speaker 2: Writing important to identify that Initially people want to see
Speaker 2: the you know, the map behind me, They want to
Speaker 2: see the what they don't they don't then they'll do
Speaker 2: the why later maybe, but that is the why has
Speaker 2: got to be first. And once you can develop that
Speaker 2: and build the relationships and know why it's important to
Speaker 2: every stakeholder, then that's when you really get the momentum
Speaker 2: of the what. And the outcome in our situation has
Speaker 2: been nothing but a success because of we started with
Speaker 2: the why. We can we can go through these situations
Speaker 2: because we have that understanding of what our long term
Speaker 2: vision is. Because again, our why is aligned you know,
Speaker 2: in several ways, community agronomically, you know, as the golf course.
Speaker 2: Everything is aligned. And so that's where we've really gained
Speaker 2: the momentum.
Speaker 1: All right, So what is next for Buffalo Dunes. Where
Speaker 1: are we at in this master plan and what's on
Speaker 1: tap for next year and the couple of years after.
Speaker 2: We've currently completed fourteen green sites forty two bunkers. Total
Speaker 2: costs to date is one hundred and ninety six thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Will and people might think there might be some people
Speaker 1: who think that's a lot of money. That's that's like
Speaker 1: a penny in golf course renovation in terms.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're very proud of that number. We will this year,
Speaker 2: we will complete the remaining four green complexes, and so
Speaker 2: all green complexes will be complete at the end of
Speaker 2: this season, and then twenty twenty five will hopefully just
Speaker 2: be kind of some button up stuff that we've lower
Speaker 2: on the priority list, get some tea set in, create
Speaker 2: those angles that we're looking for, cart path work here
Speaker 2: and there, but we're starting to really click together the
Speaker 2: puzzle pieces that when people arrive at Buffalo Dunes they
Speaker 2: can really see the vision of what it is and
Speaker 2: what it's going to be, and that should be exciting.
Speaker 2: Hopefully we're done with this. There's always something to do,
Speaker 2: but we'll be ready for our fiftieth anniversary in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six.
Speaker 1: Cool. Well, I'm really looking forward to seeing the course,
Speaker 1: and thank you so much for coming on the pod play.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: This episode of the FRIDAYGG Golf podcast was produced by
Speaker 1: Matt Rusius. Thank you, Matt. If you'd like to support
Speaker 1: Frida Egg Golf on a different level, then consider joining
Speaker 1: Club TFF. Go to the fridaygg dot com slash membership
Speaker 1: to see everything that we're offering there. But something new
Speaker 1: that we just started this week is Tour Guide. This
Speaker 1: is basically a weeklish feature where our great PGA tour
Speaker 1: and professional golf writers give you a way to consume
Speaker 1: professional golf on a more intelligent level. So in this
Speaker 1: first edition, Joseph Almania has a primer on Tory Pines,
Speaker 1: basically giving an idea of what skills this course actually tests.
Speaker 1: Brennan Porath has a wonderful memory lane segment on the
Speaker 1: time that Phil Nicholson was accused of cheating at Tory Pines,
Speaker 1: and finally, Will Knights has a short segment at the
Speaker 1: end about a particular shot from Nick Dunlap's victory last
Speaker 1: week at the American Express that is going to stick
Speaker 1: in Will's memory really enjoyed reading this this morning. So
Speaker 1: that's just something new that we started, and that's what
Speaker 1: we do in Club TFE. We're always looking for ways
Speaker 1: to improve that offering. So again, the Frida egg dot
Speaker 1: com slash membership, that's Club TFE and thank you for listening,
Speaker 1: and we'll be back next week with another episode