1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece Deborah aka Debbie Collier. Just 2 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: think about it. A few weeks ago we didn't know 3 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: her name, but now her name will forever be connected 4 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: to the circumstances surrounding her murder. A mystery, a puzzle 5 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: that is still missing, a piece. I me, Nancy Grace, 6 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 7 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. In 8 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: the last hours, police have a press or a press 9 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: conference answering some but not all of our questions. As 10 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: of right now, this mom found almost completely naked down 11 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: a side of a ravine, her body partially burned, but 12 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: it seems as if, based on video surveillance we have 13 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: just seen within an hour before she was perfectly normal, 14 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: seemingly headed to a football tailgating party. First of all, 15 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Fox five to 16 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: speculation about this case over the last several weeks. This 17 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: was the first opportunity for reporters to go face to 18 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: face on the record with investigators. What happened to Debbie 19 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: Collier found partially nude and burned on the side of 20 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: this road. According to investigators, it's clear we have not 21 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: changed our thoughts about this being a homicide. We believe 22 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: that this act was deliberate and personal. There is no 23 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: information or evidence to this point that shows that this 24 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: was something random, that there was something that was out 25 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: that was not from somebody that she either knew or 26 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: somebody who she had some association with, new or high 27 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: association with. And all you legal eagles called it along 28 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: with this exact panel on day one. A random killer 29 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: such as, Oh, let's just say a burglar that has 30 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: no idea who's home he's going into. And I say he, 31 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 1: because typically is a he, and you see the homeowner 32 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: there and you nut up and kill them. That hardly 33 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: ever happens, But that would be random. Usually that burglar 34 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: turned killer leaves high tails it out. You see nothing 35 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: but tell hoole and elbows they're gone. Why go to 36 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: all the effort to stage the scene, try to burn 37 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: the body to dispose of it, smash her cell phone? 38 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: Just too much surrounding this scene? Screams targeted, screams deliberate, 39 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: take a listen to more so, they must trace Collier's steps. 40 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: This is a new snapshot from the day before her 41 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: body was discovered. Her vehicle traveling northbound on Georgia fifteen 42 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: on September tenth, around two fifteen pm, in the direction 43 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: of the Clayton Family Dollar, the place she was last 44 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: seen alive. You can see her buying various items. Around 45 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: three that afternoon, investigators have new video of her walking 46 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: out of the store back to her car and found 47 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,399 Speaker 1: that she stayed in the parking lot on additional ten 48 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: minutes from that ten minutes. At three nineteen pm, she 49 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: leaves the parking lot and begins to head southbound on 50 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: Georgia fifteen. Okay, let's just absorb what we're hearing. She's 51 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: going north on Georgia at fifteen. I believe that's also 52 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: known as old for forty one going north. She goes 53 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: to the Family Dollar, she comes out, she sits in 54 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: her car for ten minutes, which I do not advise ladies. 55 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: Don't do that. If you're in your car, locked the 56 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: car immediately and try to leave as quickly as you can. 57 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: Now sometimes you have to, I don't know, turn on 58 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: your book on tape, or make a call and put 59 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: it on speaker, or get your directions into your ways 60 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: or your Google map. All of that you should really 61 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: do before you get in the car that said she 62 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: sat in her car about ten minutes from three o 63 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: nine pm to three nineteen pm. It was during that window, 64 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: that ten minute window, that a mysterious VENMO for nearly 65 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: three thousand dollars was sent from her to her daughter, 66 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: who curiously had just moved home forty eight hours before. 67 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: Two days. She's home and her mom's dead. She sends 68 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: a VENMO to the daughter. We think or did someone 69 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: hack into her venomo and send that. You don't have 70 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: to have a VMO sent from your cell phone as 71 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: long as someone knows how to log in. What was 72 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: her log in? Was it her birthday? Was it her 73 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: daughter's birthday? Was it cut some configuration of their initials? 74 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: Plus he's got a son to plus their dbes? Was 75 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: it easy to figure out? Could anybody do it? Well? 76 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: There's more. Listen. Keep in mind this is around the 77 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: same time Kyler's daughter, Amanda Bearden says she received a 78 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: VENMO payment and a note from her mother saying, quote, 79 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: they are not going to let me go love you. 80 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: We're still waiting more information that we have requested to 81 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: confirm or deny where the VEMO was sent from, but 82 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: we can confirm that it Amanda did receive the VENMO. 83 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: I'll tell you straight up right here. As far as 84 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: this investigation goes, it seems like once we get on 85 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: track with something like a curveball comes in out of nowhere. 86 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: Again we may be several weeks away from learning autopsy results. 87 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: So investigati say this case is a marathon, not a race. Well, 88 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing now, this is Latin 89 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: eagle talk. She's sure as hell was not being hell 90 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: hostage as she was sitting in her own rental car 91 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: and the parking lot of the Family Dollar. So day 92 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: one when we heard that message part of the VENMO. 93 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: At the time that message was sent, Deborah Debbie Collier 94 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: was sitting and her rental car, a Chrysler pacifica black 95 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: in color, in the parking lot of the Family Dollar. 96 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: She wasn't being hell hostage. Nobody was not gonna let 97 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: me go at that moment. So that message, as we 98 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: thought at the get go, seemed so dramatic, like a 99 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: fifth grade girl wrote it in a novel. Is a lie. 100 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: I don't think Debbie Collier sent that, so who did? 101 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: If we figure that out, we might know her killer. 102 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: Earlier I was talking about video surveillance near one of 103 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: the Telulah Gorge Telula Falls School highs video surveillance and 104 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 1: they see her going north toward the Family Dollar. That's 105 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: where the Family Dollars. Surveillance catches her coming in dressed 106 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: up while she's going tailgating and her Georgia Bulldog's outfit. 107 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: She buys a few things, leave sits in her card. 108 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: Ten minutes heads back the way she came. But we 109 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: don't have any surveillance video going southbound on forty one. 110 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: Why with me an all star pound to make sense 111 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: of what we know right now? Now? You were just 112 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: hearing our friends at Fox five, but they're talking about 113 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: the press conference that has just gone down in the 114 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: last hours. Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Take 115 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: a listen to the Habersham County Sheriffs. She stayed in 116 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: the parking lot in additional ten minutes from that ten minutes. 117 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: At three nineteen pm, she leaves the parking lot and 118 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: begins to head southbound on Georgia fifteen, which is the 119 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: main highway, the four lane highway that connects Raven County 120 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: to Haversham. She starts traveling southbound towards to Little Falls, 121 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: which is just inside Haversham County. We are still in 122 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: the process of trying to obtain videos from other locations 123 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: and other businesses along that route, and we encourage any 124 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: business along that route that might have cameras please reach 125 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 1: out to us. That way we can have a meeting 126 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: with you and see if we can kind of even 127 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: narrow down our timeline even more. People. Listen, any business 128 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: or home along that stretch of Georgia fifteen, check your 129 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: surveillance video. See what you can see. It may mean 130 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: nothing to you, but it can mean a lot to investigators. 131 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: Was she being followed? Was there a car telling her? 132 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: Think about it? Her car was found not too far 133 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: from her dead body down a ravine. So what did 134 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: the killer walk away? Take a bicycle? Note the killer 135 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: had wheels. Was he or she following her as she 136 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: went toward that ravine area? Take a listen to more 137 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: from the Habersham County Sheriff's This tells us that the 138 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: timeframe is actually narrowed a little further. For this case 139 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: to begin at three nineteen pm on Saturday, September tenth 140 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: and ending at twelve forty four Sunday, September eleventh, the 141 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: time of the discovery. Please understand that this case is 142 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: very complex in nature and has a lot of questions 143 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: and unknowns that aren't found in a typical death investigation. 144 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: It is going to take significantly more time than the 145 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: nineteen days that have passed since the discovery to solve 146 00:09:46,920 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 1: this crime. He's right about that time stories with Nancy Greece. 147 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: They have a sub county sheriff's office made it very 148 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: clear that they have called in outside help, specifically neighboring 149 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: county law enforcement. With me and all Star Pale to 150 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. But first 151 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: of all, I want to go out to Fox News 152 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: digital reporter Michael Ruiz, who has been on the case 153 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: from the very beginning, and you hear his voice peppering 154 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: the sheriff's office with questions. Michael, thank you for being 155 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: with us. I'm going to get into the Venmo account 156 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: and how that happens and the timing event and what 157 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: it means, because they said something very curious that they 158 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: know the money was sent to Amanda Barden, but they 159 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: don't know where the money is. That to me is inconsistent, 160 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: But I bet there's a good explanation for it. I 161 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: want to first focus on what we learned about the 162 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,239 Speaker 1: family Dollar video, because it's the day of a game 163 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: and she is absolutely dressed up like she's going to 164 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: some type of a uga party with the colors red 165 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: and black. Yeah. Andy, first, thanks for having me. But 166 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: also she walks into that store wearing I mean, it 167 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: looks like a herschel Walker jersey, or at least it's 168 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: his number. It's kind of hard to read the back 169 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: in the video there, but she goes in and what 170 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: does she buy? Poncho's a lighter, a tart. I mean, 171 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: if you're gonna watch the game somewhere outside, those are 172 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: things you might bring with you. What was the weather 173 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, the day she goes missing, Jackie, 174 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: you'll get that up on the almanac, the weather in 175 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: Athens on the day she goes missing, which was September ten, 176 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: Because she was found September eleven, which was a Sunday, 177 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: so September ten, it had to be raining, which is 178 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: another indication. Michael Ruiz, when I found out that she 179 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: bought a poncho, I'm like, no way, did this woman 180 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: playing a suicide. She's worse, She's gonna get her hair wet. No, 181 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: that's not the thinking of someone about to end their life. 182 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: But there there's so much more evidence to support it 183 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: was not a suicide, that said Michael Ruis. She comes 184 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: into the family dollar, she gets a poncho, she gets 185 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: a lighter stick, which I'm thinking is one of those 186 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: clicky things that you hold out to the fire and 187 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: you click it and start it. Correct. Right. They described 188 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: it as a torch lighter, but they haven't shown us 189 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: an actual picture of it. But you could start liking 190 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: cold light a barbecue, something like that. It makes sense 191 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: to purchase for that scenario. Lighter, poncho, a blue tarp 192 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: which was found near her body, partially burned, a red 193 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: tote bag which was also found, which I believe she 194 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: was gonna use to carry her items to our imaginary 195 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: tailgate party. She's dressed up. It looks like black boots. 196 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: She may have on black hose. I couldn't tell from 197 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: the surveillance camera, could you if she had on hose? 198 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: And there's a reason I ask, well, we don't know 199 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: anything about what she was wearing. The investigators have kind 200 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: of kept a lot of the crime scene details. Well, 201 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: I mean, look at it. Man I'm sure you're not 202 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: that familiar with women's sheer black hose. Renee Rockwell joining 203 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: me high profile, defensive turning out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. 204 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: You can find her at Renee dot Rockwell, Renee with 205 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: two ease, Renee. Have you looked at the surveillance video 206 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: at that family dollar? Look at it, Nancy. The value 207 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: is that it's starting to zero in on some better 208 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: time references for us, and it may in fact start 209 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: eliminating usual suspects. Can we talk about what we know? 210 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: Please do? But my main question to you was what 211 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: is she wearing hose? Is she wearing black hose? Jackie 212 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: Sydney look at it because her legs look like she's 213 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: wearing sheer black hose. But I can't tell oh, seventy 214 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: degrees no rain, ninety degrees no rain. Just look at 215 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: the video, jack and said, and tell me what you see. 216 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: Go ahead, Renee. You're telling me what we know. Okay. 217 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: What we know is that the interesting the Benmo twenty 218 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: three eighty five, whoever sent that money knew that that 219 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: amount would go through. Don't you have a problem with that? Nancy? Yes, 220 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: I do, as you and I both know in my 221 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: early days at the DA's office, I would have to 222 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: actually go to the bank to check my balance, to 223 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: drive through to find out how much money was in 224 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: there before I would write a big check, right exactly, Renee, 225 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: explain it to the other people that may not have 226 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: money problems ever in their life. Well, whoever, I'm not 227 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: gonna be able to send somebody twenty three eighty five 228 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: right now, random number, random amount. But guess what the 229 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: amount went through? So somebody knew that that amount would 230 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: go through. That's just interesting to me, You know what, 231 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: That is really smart and I had not thought of that. 232 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed to say it's a random amount, which I 233 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: was the example of the Jeanne Ramsey case where the 234 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: ransom was one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars, which coincidentally 235 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: was John Ramsey's bonus amount that he had just gotten. 236 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: Who knew that? But yes, what was that number? What 237 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: was it to pay? What was it for? And also 238 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: who would know that she had that much in her 239 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: checking account? That's a really good point. Uh, guys, have 240 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: either of you looked at the video yet? Yes? Does 241 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: it look like she has on sheer black hose or no? 242 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: Hose at all you can see your legs. Yeah, I 243 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: could see her legs, but it couldn't know if it 244 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: was a silhouette making the outline of the legs dark, 245 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: or was she wearing sheer hose black purse right in 246 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: front of Yes, she's got the big purse. Uh. Michael 247 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: at Ruis has got a lot of questions about the 248 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: purse and a circle back to that in just one 249 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: moment um Karen start joining me renowned psychologists out of 250 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: the New York jurisdiction at Karen Stark dot com. Karen 251 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: with a c. Did you listen to the husband's nine 252 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: one one call? Did you hear that? I did? Yes, 253 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: he sounds sincere. He not only sounds sincere, but when 254 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: they look into him, Nancy, he really was parking cars 255 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: for the game, and so he has an alibi that sticks. 256 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: What's what's most interesting to me as a psychologist is 257 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: when you watch her in the video, when she's in 258 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: the store, she is as calm as you could possibly be. 259 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: There is absolutely no indication that something is making her anxious, 260 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: that people are holding her hostage, threatening her, and it's 261 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: very hard to imagine. Think about yourself, right, you're in 262 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: a situation where you're saying that you know they have me, 263 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: they won't let me go, and you're buying all these 264 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: things and you're calm, your serene, like, oh, you know, 265 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: nothing's going on. I'm about to go and have a 266 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: good time. That just doesn't ring true to me. It 267 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense that somebody's holding her hostage and won't 268 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: let her go. Nancy. Well, it doesn't make sense to 269 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: me that she's writing that kind of a message sitting 270 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: in her car, Nancy, unless she's part of some elaborate 271 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: kidnapping hoax that ends in her own death. Go ahead. 272 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 273 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star 274 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: of a brand new hit series, and it is a hit, 275 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. You can find it at 276 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: all the podcast destinations. Jump in. Joe Scott. One of 277 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: the things that you know, really struck me about that 278 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 1: video where she's walking in the store, Nancy, is the 279 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: fact that she's looking at her phone and it looks 280 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: like she's responding or sending a text at that moment time. 281 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: It's raised it's in her hand. She's focused on that 282 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: and Dove tell them what Karen said. You know, she's 283 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: not frenzied, she's paid, she's taking her time. You know, 284 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: if a profiler looked at this, you know, like somebody 285 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: from the FBI, you know they would. You know, when 286 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: it comes to kidnapping, you have this level of stress 287 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: at the kind of measure. You know they see, you know, 288 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: tent stuff. That's not what you're seeing. She's actually manipulating 289 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: her phone in some way. If people will just take 290 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: a look at that, I'm wondering if those were not 291 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: instructions or directions or something. You know, it's to going 292 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: in to kind of purchase these items that seem so 293 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: out of sorts in this environment, potentially telling her where 294 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: to meet them. You know another thing I wouldn't know 295 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: if any of you have noticed this. So let me 296 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: go to you, Michael Luise joining us Fox needs a 297 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: digital reporter, and that's him throwing all the questions at 298 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the questions to the Hammer Sam sheriffs, 299 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: which they answered. I thought, really well, Michael Luise, have 300 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: you noticed that in every single one of her pictures, 301 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: everyone except the one where she got the big shiner 302 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: where she said she fell. She has on full hair 303 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: and makeup. Have you noticed that? That's a yes? No 304 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: by the way, yes, yes, she looks very blackly together 305 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: all the time. I knew you would not be able 306 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: to did you go to law school by any chance, 307 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: because I've never known a lawyer be able to answer 308 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: with one syllable And you're following suit. But that's exactly 309 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: what I was getting at. You got to my next question. 310 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: She's always dressed up. She always has on perfect makeup. 311 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: And if you look at her in this she's wearing 312 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: her little visor. She's all fixed up. Do you see it? 313 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: Her hair is done just like in all the pictures. 314 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: So you want to tell me she gets a whole 315 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: face of makeup and a whole head of hair done. 316 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: If she's not going somewhere like I'm just saying, tellgating party, 317 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: it could be anything. Where is she going somewhere that's 318 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: going to be outdoors, That's what I'm saying. Okay, take 319 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: a listen to more that press or that has just 320 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: gone down in the last hours. One of the first 321 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: questions that was asked is can you confirm the Venmo 322 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: message from the daughter from mom? To daughter. Was sent 323 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: to mom's phone. We're still waiting more information that we 324 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: have requested to confirm or deny where the VENMO was 325 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: sent from. But we can confirm that Amanda did receive 326 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: the VENMO, he did receive money. That much we do 327 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: know right now. Continuing on, next question was are you 328 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: in possession of call your cell phone and where was 329 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: it found? Yes, we are in possession of that cell phone. 330 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: We do have it in evidence and it was located 331 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: at the crime scene. They do have the phone. It 332 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: was located at the crime scene. That was a really 333 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: big question. We are talking about that VENMO message. Now 334 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: you were hearing the Sheriff's office. Take a listen to this. 335 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: We were again going back to the cell phone providers 336 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: in search once we've done. We're working with multiple different 337 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: cell phone providers to obtain necessary information. Are we know 338 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: right now as far as the VENMO message is that, yes, 339 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: it was sent to Amanda. There was a question in 340 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: there as far as do we know where the money 341 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: is now, No, we don't. For the simple fact that 342 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: we are still obtaining information when it was sent, where 343 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: it was sent, what device it was sent from. We're 344 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: still trying to obtain that information right now, Okay, joining 345 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: me right now is a digital forensics expert. He is 346 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: also a private investigator and you can find him at 347 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: ellington dot net. Derek Ellington joining us. What in the 348 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: hay does that mean? Yes, Amanda got the message, Amanda 349 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: Beard and the daughter, the adult daughter who just came 350 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: back blue back into town two days before, and now 351 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: her mom is murdered. How the how can she get 352 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: the venmo but they don't know where the money is? Yeah, Nancy, 353 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: So this is all very interesting. What the law enforcement 354 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: has been talking about as far as tracking her location 355 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: and looking at the phone, we know that they were 356 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: able to do that and get cell tower data. What 357 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 1: we also know is that they're working right now with 358 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: Vinmo and the other online places to see what information 359 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: that can get, including text messages and things like that. 360 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: So that's the wealth of information I think for me, 361 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: going back to that transaction is very interesting. Does it 362 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 1: represent the sum total of money in her account? It's 363 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: a very arbitrary amount. I know police are looking into that. Okay. 364 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: My question is, and I agree with everything you just said, 365 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: Derry Ellington. What I'm trying to figure out is what 366 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: police mean Michael Ruise. What could they possibly mean that 367 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: the money was transferred in this unique amount? As Renee 368 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: Rockwell pointed out, somebody had to know that that money 369 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: was in her account to make this Venmo happen. That 370 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: amount of money nearly three grand. They know it was 371 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: transferred to the adult daughter, Amanda Bearden, but they don't 372 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: know where the money is. Now, what does that mean? Well? Right, well, oh, sorry, yeah, 373 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: I just wanted to add one thing, Nancy. When they 374 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: talked about confirming that it went to the daughter, I 375 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: think what they're also confirming is that it had to 376 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: have originated from her phone, the victim's phone. The mechanism 377 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: that would have been required for a total stranger to 378 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: access the Venmo account from a separate device would have 379 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: would have been there have been a lot of security. 380 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: Venmo isn't itself fairly secure, So we need to work 381 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: with the theory that the transaction did originate from her phone. Okay, 382 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: so my understanding, Jo Scott Morgan and Michael always hold 383 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: that thought place. Joe Scott, if someone has your log 384 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: in info, they can send Venmo money from your account. 385 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: From Joe Scott Morgan's account, I can send money from 386 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: your account. If I have to log in info from 387 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: right here in the studio, I don't have to have 388 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: your phone to do it. Yeah, that's my understanding. However, 389 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: I think that you know, just as Derek had said, 390 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: there are certain walls of security you have you have 391 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: to answer certain questions in order to be able to 392 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: facilitate that. And I think where this is kind of interesting. 393 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: If you're talking about that something's going to originate from 394 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: the phone, and it's going to originate from another location, 395 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: you have to log off of that in order to 396 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,479 Speaker 1: log onto another one. And again this might go again 397 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: to Derek's premise here that they have matching data that 398 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: kind of matches it up relative to the position of 399 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: the phone and relative to the Venmo account itself. Is 400 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: there something some way these are kind of intertwined and 401 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: tied together where they can go back and again, you know, listen, 402 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: what did they say earlier she was specifically targeted. Maybe 403 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: this is one of those little links in the chain 404 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: that talks about this targeting that somebody has intimate knowledge 405 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: of her. Michael Ruise, I think it's very clear that 406 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: someone had her personal information that could have logged into 407 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: her Venmo account. Is there any way under the sun 408 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: that this woman sat in her car sent the Venmo 409 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: account and as part of the sent of Venmo money transfer, 410 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: and as part of that transfer wrote they won't let 411 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: me go key to house in flower Pot? Does anybody 412 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: really think she sent that from her phone in her 413 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: car in a parking lot. The message is very confusing, 414 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: But what's interesting is one of the last things of 415 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: her cell phone is at the same time as the 416 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: Venmo is sent. Now does that mean she sent to 417 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: Venmore did something else with the phone? I don't know, 418 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: and investigators haven't told me, but I guess it's a possibility. Guys, 419 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. As far as Steve working, 420 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: we have pulled the video from Snova's bank where he 421 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: stated that he was working that day because of being 422 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: a UGA game. He works for a private company called 423 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: the Optimist Club that private contracts Senovas Banks parking lot 424 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: to park vehicles for the game day. They use that 425 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: parking lot to provide parking for people coming to the game. 426 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: We have confirmed that he was there from nine am 427 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: to four of six pm on Saturday, So what Karen 428 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: Stark was saying earlier is absolutely true. I think at 429 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: this point, unless he's working with a partner, and I 430 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: think there'll be a trail of evidence to that the 431 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: husband is in the clear. He's about an hour away 432 00:26:47,160 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: parking cars at a Sonova's Bank parking lot. Crime Stories 433 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. I want to circle back to what 434 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: we know regarding that family dollar visit. Listen. I pulled 435 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: the video footage from the store and talked with everybody 436 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: from the store. Based off of that with Miss Collier, 437 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: it was asked that if it might have if Amanda 438 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: was in there earlier, and Amanda, based off of our 439 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: knowledge at this time, there was some confusion there and 440 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: the associate that worked there actually saw the mother and 441 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: not the daughter. I was able to provide photos to 442 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: that store clerk to confirm that based off of what 443 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: we were told, and they told and she said no, 444 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: I remember seeing the mother, not the daughter. What we 445 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: can confirm we know the Amanda talked on the phone 446 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: with her mother Saturday afternoon. The last time she spoke 447 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: to her mom was on the phone. But Dan Michael 448 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: Ruise joining us Fox News Digital, there have been a 449 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: lot of confusion as to whether or not the adult 450 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: daughter of baby calling or Amanda Bearden was in the 451 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: family Dollar with her mother just before she's murdered. Apparently 452 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: she was not there. Did she ever say she was there? 453 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: Number one? And number two? What time do we think 454 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: Amanda beard And spoke to her mother on the phone 455 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: that Saturday, the day that she has murdered. Tiding of 456 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: that phone call is a big question that I have 457 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: as well. You know, maybe it took place during that 458 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: ten minutes where she was sitting in the car. Maybe 459 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: that's why she didn't drive out of the parking lot 460 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: right away. And if you watched that video, she doesn't 461 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: really clearly directly leave the parking lot. She kind of 462 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: goes to the north end only to turn southbound. It's 463 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: kind of like a meandering little exit there, which is 464 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: kind of odd, almost like she's distracted and she doesn't 465 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: want to drive. But I want to speculate on that 466 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: in terms of Amanda being at that store. So actually 467 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: we were told when we went and visited the clerk 468 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: that the clerk saw Amanda, not Debbi. So we reached 469 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: out to the law enforcement and they went and reinterviewed 470 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: the clerks with photos and showed her and they checked 471 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: the cameras and they confirmed it that it was Debbi, 472 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: not Amanda who was in that store. Butce, I think 473 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 1: that's where that confusion kind of grew out of gotcha 474 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: jump in? What I keep coming back to is, of course, 475 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: if you have the time to send a financial transaction, 476 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: you've got time to call nine one one, You've got 477 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: time to send a message for help. Is it possible 478 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: that there's a level of extortion or threat and she 479 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: went willingly to a point. That's a question we need 480 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: to ask as well, because the police have said this 481 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: isn't random. She had some type of connection with these people. Okay, 482 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: So that would be essentially telling a woman who's in 483 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: her car with her door was locked and her seat 484 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: built on, do this or else? So her husband is 485 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: out parking cars, where's the threat? Do this or else? What? Family? 486 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: We don't know? Okay? That sounds far fetched to me. Uh, 487 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: Michael Ruis, I'm understanding that all of the digital devices 488 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: cell phones, laptops, iPads, the works have been seized and 489 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: are being evaluated. Yes, no, yes, okay, So if there 490 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: was evidence of a plot or a threat, unless it 491 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: was over the phone and that call could be traced 492 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: it's not. There's no digital imprint such as an email 493 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: or text, is there not that we're aware of. But 494 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: they also have kind of close to their chest. Correct, 495 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: And okay, let me ask a question to Derek Ellington, 496 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: digital forensics expert. Her cell phone was found. There was 497 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: a lot of confusion about that. It was found not 498 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: far from her dead body, but it was smashed. It 499 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: had been smashed. That really means nothing because everything is 500 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: most likely going to be found in the cloud. Yes, No, 501 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: that is correct. Smash doesn't tell us a lot, Nancy. 502 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: We get phones from plane crashes and car crashes all 503 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: the time, and we have to repair them. But the 504 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 1: police have two sources of data to work from. They 505 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: have the cloud and then they have what we hope 506 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: they can recover from the phone. It tells me one thing, 507 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: Karen Start. It tells me a lot about the mind 508 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: of the killer. They actually want to destroy evidence. So 509 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: this is not some guy a hitchhike or she picks 510 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: up who doesn't give up flying fig about her cell 511 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: phone or anything about him being on that cell phone 512 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: because it's not gonna be there. It's not some person 513 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: she just met and was tricked into helping like somebody 514 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,959 Speaker 1: on the side of the road with a flat tire. 515 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,959 Speaker 1: Not really, This is someone who believes that in that 516 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: cell phone is digital data that could implicate them. Get it, 517 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: Karen Starr. I get it, Nancy. But what I also 518 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: get is that there are things that they did to her, 519 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: that happened that clearly can't be a hitchhiker on the 520 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: side of the road. There's somebody who's very angry. Why 521 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: else would they take off her clothes or have her 522 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: take off her clothes, or try to burn her. It's 523 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: there are things that don't make If you want to 524 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: kill somebody quickly, this is not how you do it. 525 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: This is too deliberate, this is anger. You are so right, 526 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: I mean, we'ren rockwell. I've prosecuted a lot of murderers, 527 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: spree murders, serial killers, mass murderers. You've defended a lot 528 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: of them. It's gonna be a cold day in heblel 529 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: that a random killer takes the time to take off 530 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: her clothes unless they're going to rape her, to try 531 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: to burn her body, to try to get rid of evidence, 532 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: smash her cell phone, and leave the completely pristine car. 533 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: Nothing in the car at all, not even a print 534 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: that we know of. Okay, there's a mistaging what there 535 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,959 Speaker 1: is something in the car that we just don't know 536 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: what it is. But what we do know is at 537 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: some point when that message was sent, we're gonna find 538 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: out what time the daughter received the message. And Nancy, 539 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: if I ever send you twenty three dollars and tell 540 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: you somebody's not going to let me go, not twenty 541 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: three hundred, but twenty three dollars and tell you that, 542 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: don't take hours to go looking for me or call 543 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: the police. That's all. Oh, no, number one, I'd call 544 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: nine one one right there. I'd locate your husband. Number two. 545 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: You can count on that. And every one of the regards, 546 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: there's a lot of them. Find out where they were. 547 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: Then I'd put down a seance and call your mother 548 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: in because I would need psychic health right then. Okay, 549 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: Renee is absolutely right. The venmo in itself is an issue. 550 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: Who gets three grand from their mom on a venmo? 551 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: Or did she get three grand? Did it go to 552 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: Amanda Bearden? But it went to somebody else's account. We 553 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: don't know where the money. And I say, once you 554 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: find the money, jump in. I wanted to say that 555 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: that amount of money. What we don't know is she 556 00:34:54,719 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 1: has a history of supposedly allegedly trying to getting money 557 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,439 Speaker 1: from her boyfriend, her living boyfriend, for drugs. Talking about 558 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: the daughter, Rid yes, so perhaps this is not unusual 559 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: where she's asking her mother for specific amounts of money. 560 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: And I also want to add that in Benmo you 561 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: can as long as it's your phone, they don't keep 562 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: checking and saying, you know, show us proof of identity. 563 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 1: You can just go on and send money from your account, 564 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: you know, speaking of the grown daughter. Listen to our 565 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: cut forty two. This is what we can't confirm. She 566 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: lived in Maryland with her brother. She lived in I 567 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: think the same apartment complex correct, with her brother up 568 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: in Maryland, CDI, I can't tell. I can't tell you 569 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: what the city is because I don't have my notes 570 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: and stuff in front of me, but I do know 571 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: it's Maryland. She moved down here on the eighth, which 572 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: would have been Thursday, September of September eighth when she 573 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: moved down here to Georgia, so we know she was 574 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: down here at some point on Thursday. She gets into 575 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: town on Thursday, and mom is dead on Saturday. In 576 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: the middle of all of this line of investigation, and 577 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: again no one has been named suspect or a press 578 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: of interest. Now we have a mystery convict thrown into 579 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: the mix. Take a listen to who we believe to be. Debbie. 580 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: Call your sister, Diane Shirley calling nine one one. Yes, 581 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: my name is Diane Shirley, and my sister lives in 582 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: Georgia and my niece told me she was missing. Her 583 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: name is Deborah, call youer or she could go by Debbie. Okay, 584 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if y'all have any information about it, 585 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: as I mean, none other than with the officer or 586 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: whoever is working in the case. I don't know anything. Um, okay, 587 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: we're just not getting information. So I'm just yeah, I 588 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: am really worried about my sister and you know what 589 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: she Do you have an information where she might go 590 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 1: or do you have anything to add From my knee, 591 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: she said that she was in an act about a 592 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: month ago and she was, you know, on the road. 593 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: She was following this truck and this truck lost a 594 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: paint can and the paint can hit my sister's car 595 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: and the paint went everywhere and the driver was trying 596 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: to convince my sister not to tell the cops that 597 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: he was driving because he was out on parole and 598 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: there was, you know, a sipulation to his parole that 599 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: he couldn't drive. You think that was told to anybody else? Well, 600 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: you think that was told to the officer that concern. 601 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: That's standing from my Nie, that's the understanding from my niece, 602 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: Amanda Bearding. So, Michael Luisa, information about the mystery convict, 603 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: that's coming from the adult daughter a man a beard 604 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 1: And yes, no, yes, Well was a report ever filed? 605 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: I'm thinking yes, because she Debbie took her car in 606 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: to get it fixed. That's why she had her mental car, 607 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,280 Speaker 1: so to get insurance to pay for it. I assume 608 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 1: you normally follow a police report and that would have 609 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: the convict's name on it. Absolutely, and we have a 610 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: copy of it, and we reached out to the guy, 611 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: and I don't see any indication that he is this 612 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: X con. I think that that is a mischaracterization that 613 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: somehow got to Diane Shirley. Let me ask you, was 614 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: that what happened a can of paint fell off a truck. 615 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: So the report that I have doesn't say specifically that 616 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: it was a can of paint. But it does say 617 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: that equipment fell off the back of a truck hit 618 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: Debbie's car and caused the accident, And nothing about him 619 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: being an x con. Nothing about him being an x con. 620 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: He had insurance. They went through it like that. He 621 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: got a couple of citations, but nothing that put him 622 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: in prison or in jail or violated any kind of 623 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: parole that we could find. Yeah, Renee Rocco, have you 624 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: ever heard of a parole condition? Well, Nancy, he could 625 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: be bond, can't drive. He could be on bond with 626 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: the stipulation do not drive, do not drive, Nancy. Wouldn't 627 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: that be as a result of a bitual violator or 628 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,479 Speaker 1: a DUI? I mean, have you ever seen that other 629 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:27,479 Speaker 1: than an impairment defense? Yeah, vehiculo homicide, do not drive? Now, 630 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: I know I just said that. I'm asking you that 631 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,399 Speaker 1: focus in any other kind of case other than vehiculo homicide, 632 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: habitual violator or DUI. Have you ever heard of a 633 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: probationer or a PAROLEI being told don't drive? Yeah, just 634 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: driving under suspension? Don't drive? Okay. So I'm gonna take 635 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: that as a no, which means that story doesn't make sense. Typically, 636 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: parole and Probation wants you to drive to work and 637 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: a church and to see your probation or your parole 638 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: officer again. No one has been named as a suspect 639 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: or even a person of interest. We wait as justice unfolds. 640 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing off, goodbye Frank