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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: This is Master's in Business with Barry rid Hoolts on

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: What can I say about this week's guest, Total Wolf,

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Speaker 1: principal CEO of Mercedes Formula one race team. What an

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Speaker 1: incredible career from a winning racer to an investor and

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Speaker 1: venture capitalist, to a person who just kind of became

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Speaker 1: a principal at Williams and then eventually after that team

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Speaker 1: surprisingly began to win, got recruited over to Mercedes, where

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Speaker 1: he has put together a fantastic track record. His rookie

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Speaker 1: year at Mercedes was the same rookie year for Lewis Hamilton.

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Speaker 1: Obviously they've had an amazing run together. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what else I could say about this conversation. If you're

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Speaker 1: a fan of Formula one racing, if you're a fan

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Speaker 1: of managing a team of people, if you're interested in

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Speaker 1: how to ring out every last millisecond of performance, you're

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Speaker 1: going to find this conversation absolutely fascinating. I know I did,

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Speaker 1: with no further ado my discussion with Mercedes F One's

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Speaker 1: team principal Total Wolf. I don't want to waste time

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Speaker 1: singing your accolades let's just jump right into this undergraduate

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Speaker 1: Vienna University of Economics and Business. How did you end

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Speaker 1: up in racing? It sounds like you were going into finance.

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Speaker 2: Dropout, dropout. Yeah, so yeah, I was born and raised

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Speaker 2: in Vienna and went to the Vienna u University of Economics,

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Speaker 2: but actually raced in junior formulas at the time and

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Speaker 2: wanted to be a race driver. And when that ended,

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Speaker 2: abruptly ran out of money and we had a very

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Speaker 2: bad spell of accidents in Formula one, so I lost

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Speaker 2: a sponsor. I decided I'm going to quit both. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna quit UNI and I'm going to quit racing and

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Speaker 2: launch myself into working.

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Speaker 1: And you were fairly successful as a race so you

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Speaker 1: began an Austrian Formula Ford. You won the twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours of Bahrain, which is an unusually any twenty four

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Speaker 1: hour races difficult. How do you what's the key to

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Speaker 1: winning twenty four hours of driving?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So the twenty four hour race was in Dubai

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Speaker 2: and was in so far relatively important because it was

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Speaker 2: the first big raase of twenty four hours in the

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Speaker 2: Middle East. So you have three drivers of four and

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Speaker 2: you're having two hour stints, and it's and it's challenging

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Speaker 2: from mentally and from the human body because sometimes you

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Speaker 2: have to get up at two o'clock and drive from

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Speaker 2: two to four in the ninth But it was all

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Speaker 2: part of my racing and I loved every minute.

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Speaker 1: So you go from racing to saying, all right, I

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Speaker 1: don't have a career in racing, I'm gonna go into finance.

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Speaker 1: And you found March fifteenth in nineteen ninety eight. Tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about what sort of investing you

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Speaker 1: were doing in the late nine Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the first company was called March fifteen and then

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Speaker 2: March sixteen, and there is not a lot of meaning

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Speaker 2: behind it. It was just the data incorporated it and

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Speaker 2: that felt the easiest. So back in the day you

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Speaker 2: wouldn't think a lot about brand. And I went to

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Speaker 2: the US for a couple of months and realized that

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Speaker 2: internet companies were coming up here Yahoo, America Online and

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Speaker 2: Netscape And went back to Austria and figured out who

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Speaker 2: is doing that in Austria and stumbled up upon a

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Speaker 2: few websites and met these people, sometimes not even companies.

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Speaker 2: One was a seventeen year old board that round the

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Speaker 2: largest free SMS platform online and set up structure around it.

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Speaker 2: It was equity for consulting, so I didn't get any

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Speaker 2: didn't buy anything because I didn't have the money, and

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Speaker 2: it was just a good timing. In ninety nine and

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Speaker 2: two thousand we started to IPO companies and it became

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Speaker 2: a proper menture capital company from from consulting.

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Speaker 1: Actually, and let's first forward a little bit to two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine. You invest in the Williams F one

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Speaker 1: team and eventually in twenty twelve you become their executive director.

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Speaker 1: How is that transition? How do you go from being

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Speaker 1: a venture investor running a team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the ten years in between was going from pretty

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Speaker 2: much tech investor into motor racing. I bought a touring

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Speaker 2: car team. We were doing FORMA three Engines for Mercedes.

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Speaker 2: Was quite an extensive program about our raality team as well,

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Speaker 2: and so in these ten years I kind of merged

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Speaker 2: my passion for the spot with the investment world. And

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Speaker 2: as you say, Williams was the first former one team

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Speaker 2: I got myself into, had a minority stake, and then

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Speaker 2: I run it in twenty twelve with Frank Williams because

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Speaker 2: the CEO decided to depart and This is where basically

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Speaker 2: my Formula one active Formula one story started.

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Speaker 1: So Williams at the time wasn't exactly front of the grid.

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Speaker 1: You help them win a big race and suddenly you're

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Speaker 1: now competing with much better known, better funded teams. How

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Speaker 1: are you competitive with You know, you're fighting an uphill

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Speaker 1: battle when you're at Williams.

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Speaker 2: Energy only just energy. Yeah, we didn't have the infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: not the capability. The drivers work were not on the

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Speaker 2: level of Louise Hamilton and others. It was the energy

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Speaker 2: in the team. People gave it all. They had heart

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Speaker 2: and soul and I think we moved, We moved barriers,

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Speaker 2: we moved, We fought against adversity and we want to

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Speaker 2: race just because the people gave it their all.

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Speaker 1: H So you're involved in an initial public offering for

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Speaker 1: hwa AG, the company behind Mercedes Racing. Tell us a

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Speaker 1: little bit about that IPO and that lead to your

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Speaker 1: relationship with Mercedes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's quite interesting because that when AMG was bought

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Speaker 2: by Mercedes, the racing side was spun out because the

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Speaker 2: big Timeler corporation didn't want to have the headaches with

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Speaker 2: motor racing, you know, with the unions this is weekend

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Speaker 2: work and you want to stay argile as a corporate

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Speaker 2: to say well we're in the spot or we're out

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Speaker 2: without having too much overhead and headache. So that was

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Speaker 2: spun out and it was a really good high tech company.

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Speaker 2: They built engines for Formula three y as I said before,

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Speaker 2: touring cars for the very famous DTM racing series. This

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Speaker 2: is the equivalent of NASCAR in Germany or in Europe.

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Speaker 2: Limited editions broadcast for MG and high margin business. And

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Speaker 2: I bought forty nine percent of that business with the

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Speaker 2: found of MG, and we iPod it and sold it

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Speaker 2: to investors and then to a Katari investment fund and

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Speaker 2: that was a success story.

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Speaker 1: So how did that IPO lead to you eventually getting

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Speaker 1: tapped by Mercedes to both take a piece of the

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Speaker 1: of the team and become principal.

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Speaker 2: So it was multi faceted because we had this company

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Speaker 2: where we were basically doing all the work for Mercedes

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Speaker 2: Racing outside of Formula one. I had a driver management

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Speaker 2: company where fifty percent would be paid by Mercedes, fifty

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Speaker 2: percent by myself and so we established a trusting relationship.

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Speaker 2: And then I obviously embarked into being with Williams which

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Speaker 2: was a competitive of Mercedes. We won a race and

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Speaker 2: they were interested to understand how can that be. You're underfunded,

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Speaker 2: back market team and you're beating us on track, and

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Speaker 2: they asked me, could you evaluate that? And I said,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to bed mouth anybody, but I can,

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Speaker 2: so I did that. They came back and said, would

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Speaker 2: like to offer you to run this as a head

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Speaker 2: of Mercedes multip.

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Speaker 1: Was that a surprise? Was this? Like? Very did you

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Speaker 1: have any during that conversation? Hey, why is a wealth funded,

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Speaker 1: big team asking me how we beat them? It sort

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Speaker 1: of seems like an unusual situation, especially how competitive everybody

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Speaker 1: seems to be in the paddocks.

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Speaker 2: I think the board realized that that stage that I

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Speaker 2: bought a world championship team winning team with brawn, and

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Speaker 2: that the results were getting worse and worse and they failed.

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Speaker 2: They had no grip on what was actually happening, and

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Speaker 2: that's why they asked me. They knew that I was

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Speaker 2: not biased because I had another team, but I was

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Speaker 2: with them in touring cars, and this is how it

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Speaker 2: all came about.

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Speaker 1: So you become a thirty percent owner of the Mercedes

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Speaker 1: Patrona's team and the principal. How long is it before

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Speaker 1: that team starts winning races? What were the first couple

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Speaker 1: of years.

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Speaker 2: Like, So, my first day was in January twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 2: and it was a difficult situation because I got the

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Speaker 2: job of head of Mercedes Motorsport and at the same

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Speaker 2: time sharehold of the team and executive director. But those

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Speaker 2: two posts were, you know, where we people that were

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Speaker 2: icons in the industry, a gentleman who was running Mercedes

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Speaker 2: Motorsport and then Ross Brown, a highly decorated technical director,

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Speaker 2: was running the team, and so had to manage that situation.

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Speaker 2: Eventually took over and when I joined, we started to

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Speaker 2: win races. In that first year, we won three races

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Speaker 2: with Lewis joined that year as well at the same

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Speaker 2: time as me.

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Speaker 1: That was his rookie year. You started the same time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we were both rookies and Mercedes basically huh. And

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Speaker 2: that started to be a successfully and by the end

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Speaker 2: we were front runner and we finished second in the

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Speaker 2: championship and from then on we introduced new engine regulations

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Speaker 2: in fourteen, which was really co expertise of Mercedes obviously,

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Speaker 2: and then we had this run of eight consecutive World Championships.

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Speaker 1: Unprecedented run. We've never seen anything like that, even in

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Speaker 1: the Schumacher era. I don't think he won eight consecutive championships.

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Speaker 1: I have to ask an obvious question. You're in venture

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Speaker 1: capital investing, you're in race saying, what similarities do you

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Speaker 1: find between the two fields. You're dealing with a lot

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Speaker 1: of data, you're dealing with a lot of unknowns. Did

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Speaker 1: your background and venture investing help you put together the

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Speaker 1: winning streak at Mercedes?

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Speaker 2: It always starts with the human being because in tech,

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Speaker 2: human beings have ideas, they manage processes, and it's the

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Speaker 2: same in formula one. When you talk about a company

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Speaker 2: or a team, what is that? And it's basically a

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Speaker 2: bunch of people that on this professional journey together. So

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Speaker 2: I around people that run racing cars, and I did

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Speaker 2: the same when I was a venture capital invest stock.

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Speaker 2: I tried to hire and develop the best people to

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Speaker 2: run a specific organization.

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Speaker 1: And I mentioned when you joined Mercedes you took a

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Speaker 1: thirty percent ownership stake. Did I read this correctly? You

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Speaker 1: recently raised your stake in that, So what's your ownership

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Speaker 1: now of the team?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. When they offered me to run it, I said,

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Speaker 2: that is super honorable. But I'm a shareholder at Williams

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Speaker 2: and the deal we found is that I bought forty

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Speaker 2: percent from the Abu Dabistar and fund, and then Nick

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Speaker 2: Lauder came in and he bought ten percent, so it

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Speaker 2: was sixty Mercedes, thirty myself and ten Niki Lauda. And

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Speaker 2: when Nikki passed away, we found another investor. In today's

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Speaker 2: three shareholders each with thirty three point three percent, so

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Speaker 2: I increased my stake. As you say, so.

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Speaker 1: You're you're not a majority shareholder, but you're the principal.

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Speaker 1: How do you juggle dealing two other substantial shareholders, especially

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Speaker 1: when things become challenging.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I couldn't wish for a better shareholding group

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Speaker 2: because within Naios we got a tremendous powerhouse behind us,

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Speaker 2: a very financially profitable organization. Obviously chemicals business and that

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Speaker 2: is you go through cyclics. But Jim Redcliffe, the founder,

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Speaker 2: is involved in Manchester United and an America's Cup, in skiing,

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Speaker 2: in cycling, so that was always that was a good

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Speaker 2: deal financially made sense. It was during COVID and then

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Speaker 2: Mercedes obviously providing us with this mighty car brand the

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Speaker 2: seven most valuable brand in the world, and I'm running

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Speaker 2: it and between us situary well understood who contributes. And

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Speaker 2: I deem myself very lucky that I have a shareholder

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Speaker 2: with Mercedes that's basically giving us the keys the responsibility

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Speaker 2: for this brand. And it's been great. The current Coola Calaneus,

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Speaker 2: Marcus Schaeffer CTO and the whole Bot gang is fantastically supportive,

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Speaker 2: and you know that's part of our success.

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Speaker 1: You seem to thrive in very competitive environments, not just

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Speaker 1: investing and racing, but America's Cup and yachting, free diving,

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Speaker 1: like you do a lot of what some people would

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Speaker 1: perceive as calculated, high risk activities. What is the competitive drive?

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Speaker 1: Where does this come from?

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Speaker 2: I don't know it. When I was young, and obviously

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Speaker 2: in racing, it was always a relative competition, you want

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Speaker 2: to beat the other guy, and I realized over the

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Speaker 2: years that it was actually more a competition with myself

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Speaker 2: setting expectations and trying everything in order to achieve that.

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Speaker 2: And today racing, whilst it's still a relative and we

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Speaker 2: want to beat our competitor, it is more for us.

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Speaker 2: It's not only me in the team. We want to

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Speaker 2: surpass our expectations and if we lose, it's not particularly

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Speaker 2: losing against another team, it's losing against ourselves. And the activities,

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Speaker 2: like you mentioned, is a fight against myself. How far

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Speaker 2: can I push myself? And I love free diving. It

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Speaker 2: has a meditative component for me that I like. I

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Speaker 2: like the water, and achieving certain depth is expectations that

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Speaker 2: are set myself and I don't need to have anybody

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Speaker 2: competing with me.

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Speaker 1: What's the longest you can hold your breath? I know

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Speaker 1: you must have timed this to the second.

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Speaker 2: Four minutes and fifteen seconds.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about some of these world champions

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Speaker 1: who are holding their breath ten, twelve, fourteen minutes? It

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Speaker 1: seems superhuman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was obviously the grades of the spot that

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Speaker 2: have achieved it, but there is two different angles to

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Speaker 2: it somehow. Basically, you pump fresh oxygen in your body

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Speaker 2: to fill your lungs and that basically doubles your time

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Speaker 2: underwater holding your breath and when you're doing it without it,

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Speaker 2: without it it forming. It is quite a good benchmark.

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Speaker 1: So we talked earlier your rookie years with Lewis Hamilton.

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Speaker 1: I know you're a very competitive guy. Did you have

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Speaker 1: any sense when you were first beginning the sort of

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Speaker 1: run the two you were going to go on.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. I think when I joined the

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Speaker 2: team they finished fifth in the World Championship, and then

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Speaker 2: we quickly became so competitive. And it is not particularly

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Speaker 2: just because of Lewis and myself. A really good group

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Speaker 2: came together and started to form in twenty twelve before

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Speaker 2: my time, and then it kind of started to rule.

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Speaker 1: And I want to put some flesh on those numbers.

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Speaker 1: Eight consecutive Formula One Constructors championships from twenty fourteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Seven consecutor drivers championships, and I put

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Speaker 1: an asterisk on it because we all know that eighth

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Speaker 1: one was stolen. We won't go get into that. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to put words in your mouth. This is

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Speaker 1: me saying that you you mentioned the whole team, and

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Speaker 1: that it's not just you were the driver. Tell us

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Speaker 1: about all the various people involved in this team. This

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Speaker 1: really is a team sport.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely every single team member contributes to the team's success.

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Speaker 2: And how I'd liked to make the let's say the

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Speaker 2: breach to people that would be saying, well, what is

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Speaker 2: my contribution? To the car speed. It is that someone

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Speaker 2: in another team, Ferrari or red Bull is doing your job.

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Speaker 2: Whether it's in accounting, it's finance and cleaning, someone is

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Speaker 2: doing that job. And as long as you're able to

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Speaker 2: outperform that person, and you keep that in mind, you're

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Speaker 2: contributing to the team's dynamic and to the team's success.

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Speaker 2: And that's why everyone in their position, if done with

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Speaker 2: discipline and responsibility, is contributing to making the car faster.

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Speaker 1: And when you say everyone, I want to go into

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Speaker 1: some details about some of the things you did, because

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Speaker 1: initially people thought it was ridiculous, and then the data

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Speaker 1: backed you up. At one point, you had the people

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Speaker 1: who cleaned the bathrooms make sure everything was wiped down

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Speaker 1: twice a day. You did these changes to something as

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Speaker 1: simple as the brush that you used to clean the

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Speaker 1: ball and people thought you were a little obsessive compulsive

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Speaker 1: about it. Hey, why is Toto so nuts about the bathroom?

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Speaker 1: But it turns out your team gets ill last day

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Speaker 1: stuff for stomach virus is last just there was a

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Speaker 1: uptick in the overall health of everybody in the organization

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Speaker 1: once you implemented that. What detail is too small for you?

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Speaker 1: To notice.

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Speaker 2: I've rarely seen cutting edge businesses without the founder of

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Speaker 2: the CEO or some of the top management being obsessed

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Speaker 2: with the detail. You have to be, because if you

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Speaker 2: don't have an attention to detail, how should the rest

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Speaker 2: then fly? And I came into the office my first

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Speaker 2: day and I said, in the lobby and there was

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Speaker 2: an old daily Mail week, old daily Mail newspaper and

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Speaker 2: some old coffee cups. And when I came to the guy,

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Speaker 2: Chross Brown, I was running and I said, well, that's

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Speaker 2: not how Formula one team should look like. And the

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Speaker 2: answer was the engineering is what makes a car quick,

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Speaker 2: and not the appearance of the reception. And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I disagree, because it's the attention to detail that is important.

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Speaker 2: And if the reception as a point of sale, fire

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Speaker 2: and I font team is not the standard. And what

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Speaker 2: is the rest?

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Speaker 1: Why do people think they're mutually exclusive? You have great

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Speaker 1: engineering and a clean bathroom and lobby.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and chose your mindset, I guess. And you mentioned

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Speaker 2: the bathroom story, which has become a little bit famous,

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Speaker 2: and it's not being obsessed. But long before COVID, we

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Speaker 2: had had sanitizers that were drilled into the walls of

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Speaker 2: the races where we were going, we had a hygiene manager.

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Speaker 2: To today's many of them that looked after our health.

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Speaker 2: When you have sponsors and CEOs and husbands and wives

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Speaker 2: that are visiting our grand prixs and issuing big checks,

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Speaker 2: they are expecting these standards. You can't have a dirty bathroom.

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Speaker 2: And for me, there's no job too small, And I

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Speaker 2: know what I expect from going into a bathroom. So

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Speaker 2: this is how I taught them what I would think

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Speaker 2: it should be done. And yeah, it's maybe one example

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Speaker 2: of many others.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's an extreme example, but it points to

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Speaker 1: a certain culture and mindset. Talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: the importance of culture to any organization.

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Speaker 2: Culture is the immune system of any organization, the immune

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Speaker 2: immune system, because when times are tough, that keeps the

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Speaker 2: team together, keeps the people aligned beyond maybe the co objectives,

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Speaker 2: because when you fail, you know, those objectives become difficult

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Speaker 2: to reach. And here's the crux. You can quickly put

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Speaker 2: some values on a piece of paper and say that's

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Speaker 2: our culture now, and we projected on the wall the

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Speaker 2: PowerPoint and this is the standards we want to live to.

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Speaker 2: But the truth is, you've got to live it in

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Speaker 2: and they out. And for us, attitudes like loyalty and humility,

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Speaker 2: integrity just not just not words that we think about

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Speaker 2: some time because this, but these are the basic principles

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Speaker 2: upon we act. The old motto we're not all cost

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Speaker 2: doesn't work for us. And I don't want to work.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to win, not along those lines, because

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Speaker 2: it means you're not maybe you're playing matter rules or

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Speaker 2: you're stretching the rules to a degree that I feel comfortable.

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Speaker 2: We are in a business of reputation, and in that respect,

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Speaker 2: I want to do it the right way, and everybody

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Speaker 2: in the team wants to do it the right way.

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Speaker 2: We're playing the long game. It's not a game or

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Speaker 2: a race, but it's the next twenty years. Huh.

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Speaker 1: Really interesting. I have a bunch of rule questions for

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Speaker 1: you later, but I want to stay on the topic

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Speaker 1: of culture and people. How do you invest in and

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Speaker 1: retain talents? And I don't mean just a driver, I

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Speaker 1: mean engineers, everybody across the board. How do you find

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Speaker 1: and retain the best talent.

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Speaker 2: Like any other team and company out there. That's the

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Speaker 2: most complex of all actions because hiring the best talent

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Speaker 2: and developing isn't yet a guarantee to long term success

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Speaker 2: because environment change or exchange, people change, and I think

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Speaker 2: this is at the core of what we are trying

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Speaker 2: to achieve and retaining them in the same way. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've been successful eight times in a row, won the championship,

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Speaker 2: and then obviously people get interesting opportunity if somebody doubles

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Speaker 2: your salary and another team, you have to have the

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Speaker 2: responsibility towards your family to consider that such moves. And

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Speaker 2: that's why it's the normal lab and flow with people

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Speaker 2: coming and people leaving. But you want to stay with

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Speaker 2: that core team that your team as being essential for

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Speaker 2: the success.

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Speaker 1: How do you plan for that? I know there's a

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Speaker 1: sort of hyper competitive set of I don't want to

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Speaker 1: use the term poaching, but someone says, hey, we need

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Speaker 1: this sort of mechanic or this sort of engineer. I

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Speaker 1: like that guy as that team. How do you plan

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Speaker 1: for that? How do you cope with that loss of talent?

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Speaker 2: I think you need to have an overview about your

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Speaker 2: organization and the blueprint of how you want to have it.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes you operate even sometimes you operate along those

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Speaker 2: lines and you still fail in terms of the results.

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Speaker 2: So knowing who performs to which levels, where you're having gaps,

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Speaker 2: do you need to hire outside or develop from within,

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Speaker 2: bring up talent, and who is who is at risk

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Speaker 2: to be poached anyway, I think an overview of the

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Speaker 2: organization is key.

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Speaker 1: So let's stay with that topic. Last year was a

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Speaker 1: really challenging season. How do you keep the team motivated?

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Speaker 1: How do you face challenges when just it seems like

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Speaker 1: maybe two years ago especially, it felt like everything was

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Speaker 1: going wrong for the first half of the season. How

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Speaker 1: do you keep everybody's spirits up and people focused on

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Speaker 1: the job at hand.

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Speaker 2: It starts with myself. I have to acknowledge that maybe

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Speaker 2: my motivation or my energy levels are not that good

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Speaker 2: if our results just don't happen, but it needs to.

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Speaker 2: I'm the one who kind of needs to have that energy,

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Speaker 2: imparts into the organization and keep the organization up. So

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Speaker 2: do my colleagues on the leadership level. And that's not easy.

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Speaker 2: It's not easy. You're having fald stones. You said your

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Speaker 2: expectations based on the previous results, and if they were great,

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Speaker 2: then obviously everything is a failure. So it's been a

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Speaker 2: process over the last three years to rationalize, not be

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Speaker 2: carried away with your emotions either way, and it's a

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Speaker 2: valuable time. And I'm sure we will be looking back

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Speaker 2: in ten and twenty years and saying we had those

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Speaker 2: eight consecutive World championships, and then we had a P three.

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Speaker 2: We finished third in a championship, then second in a championship.

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Speaker 2: Now it's more complicated at force, but we want three races.

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Speaker 2: So this is still a more successful season than the

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Speaker 2: once before and it's all part of the learning, as

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Speaker 2: tough as it is when you're right in there.

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Speaker 1: So you're working on a new legacy with two young drivers.

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Speaker 1: What can we expect from Kimmi Antonelli? How do you

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Speaker 1: compare his driving style to his predecessors?

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Speaker 2: Obviously, Louis Hamilton is irreplacible, is the greatest champion that

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Speaker 2: has existed. He's a fantastic personality. He's a core family

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Speaker 2: member of our team. But he decided he wants to

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Speaker 2: pursue the Ferrari dream, and like every Formula One driver

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Speaker 2: wants to do that, he got a fantastic framework of

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Speaker 2: an agreement and I'm at peace with it because we

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Speaker 2: decided to sign a short term deal with him because

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Speaker 2: we wanted to promote them to nailin to the team

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Speaker 2: and not lose him like we did with a Stub

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Speaker 2: ten years ago. So that is all very structured and amicable.

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Speaker 2: And now we have two drivers in our team that

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Speaker 2: are really juniors since the early days. George Russell was

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Speaker 2: a menacedest junior since he was seventeen and Kimmi since

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Speaker 2: he was twelve. So having a lineup of an eighteen

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Speaker 2: year old and twenty seven year old is our future

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Speaker 2: and that means developing and there will be moments where

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Speaker 2: we tear our hair out, but he's quick and we've

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Speaker 2: seen that in the same way George. It's a great

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Speaker 2: opportunity for George to be the more senior driver and

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Speaker 2: the team at that stage. I'm happy about it.

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Speaker 1: So Hamilton one Silverstone in July kind of felt like

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Speaker 1: a bittersweet victory. What were you thinking when when he

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Speaker 1: took the podium.

439
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: It was only sweet. That was no bitter part of

440
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: it because we're still racing together. He will be part

441
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 2: of Mercedes's history forever, and him winning the British Grumpuin

442
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: his final year with Mercedes, against all odds, we couldn't

443
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: have scripted it better.

444
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: And there has to be some sort of farewell we're

445
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: planning for him at the end of the year. What

446
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: are you thinking about? How are you gonna, you know,

447
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: put a put a cap on this long term relationship.

448
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: When you look at it from a let's say, purely

449
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: professional side, When he's leaving Mercedes, he's going to one

450
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: of our competitors. Do we want to leave that like that?

451
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: And the question is the answer is no, certainly not.

452
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 2: We had so much success with each other. We want

453
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 2: to celebrate the time that that we had. And in

454
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: that respect, I think there's more many activities planned. He

455
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 2: doesn't know about it. He doesn't know what it is.

456
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: Secrets here.

457
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 2: No, he knows that something's coming, but he doesn't know

458
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: what it is. And I'm very much looking forward to

459
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: that emotion, which is to this moment that's clearly going

460
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 2: to be very emotional.

461
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: It does seem like you are playing a very different game,

462
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: a very long game, than everybody else. I sometimes and

463
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: I know Drive to Survive is, you know, emphasizes the

464
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: conflict and stuff, but it sometimes seems that people are

465
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: just thinking about this race or maybe this season. You

466
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: guys really are looking out a decade or so into

467
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: the future. How is that built into your DNA?

468
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: I think, without wanting to be disrespectful, it's different if

469
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: you're running an organization as an employee that has a

470
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: certain shild life and needs to perform in order to

471
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 2: stay in the job, or my situation as a shareholder

472
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 2: being able to look at the long term if you're

473
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: if you know that, you know, I know if I'm

474
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 2: not in principle, I'm going to be on the board

475
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: or cham and still responsible for the overall company. So

476
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: I kind of get that that other people need to

477
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 2: have more short term perspectives. It's their livelihoods and their

478
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: professional career. And on the one side, I can look

479
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 2: further down into the future, but that shouldn't be an

480
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: excuse of not being successful at the specific moment.

481
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: You mentioned. Some of your drivers have come from Mercedes

482
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: junior teams. Where do you see talent coming from these days?

483
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: Not just driving talent, but crew and team members, mechanics, engineers.

484
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: Where are you looking for the next great hire for

485
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: Team Mercedes.

486
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: You just need to have a knowledge about the various

487
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 2: channels that talent can come up in. On drivers, we

488
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: are looking at car drivers from the age of eight

489
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 2: years old, and we're seeing who can you know who

490
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: is outstanding?

491
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: You're literally tracking people a decade before they can even think.

492
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we have our scouts that are on the more

493
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: junior of international count races that are looking at those kids,

494
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 2: and we're not the only ones for Oris doing that

495
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: and some of the other teams. So and when it

496
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: comes to engineering, we have a very strong undergraduate program,

497
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 2: internships and work experiences. We're giving opportunities to underprivileged and

498
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: underrepresented groups into the team because we believe not only

499
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: for the sake of doing it to do good, but

500
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 2: we believe more variability and diversity in our people will

501
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 2: give new perspectives and new perceptions and a lot of

502
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: ambition and drives so very early into academic careers, we're

503
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 2: looking at people.

504
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about that diversity. I read

505
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: following the Black Lives Matter protests and the death of

506
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: some American citizens at the hands of police. Here, you

507
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: had a long conversation with Lewis Hamilton. You painted the

508
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: car black, which was sort of unprecedented that hadn't been

509
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: done before, kept it that way for at least a season,

510
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, and then made a commitment to, hey,

511
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: the minorities are very underrepresented in F one. How can

512
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: we expand this? How has that process gone and how successful.

513
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: Have you been? I think long before Black Lives Matter,

514
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: as a team, we have always strived to be diverse.

515
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: It was part of my upbringing that I saw what

516
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: it means to be discriminated. Anti Semitism was a strong

517
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: topic in my upbringing in Vienna, and so that is

518
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,479
Speaker 2: always how we have been calibrated. And then when obviously

519
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 2: Lewis was pushing very hard for more diversity in our

520
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: population in the team, and we embraced that from the beginning.

521
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: And then Black Lives Matter started with you know, obviously

522
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: the things that happened in the in the US, and

523
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: he said, shouldn't we do you think we should paint

524
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: the car black, which is a highly unusual question because

525
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: the silver arrows very much how the Mercedeses are being

526
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 2: called in the racing world.

527
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: That's the history going back to what the nineteen thirties.

528
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, the very the first Mercedes racing car or the

529
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: earlier Mercedes racing cars were too heavy, so we scratched

530
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 2: off the white collar and it was the Bay aluminium,

531
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: the Bell silver and that state but it was a

532
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: very quick decision. I called the board of Mercedes at

533
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: least listen, I have an unconventional question, and I think

534
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 2: it's good. Are we doing this? And it wasn't. It

535
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: was an absolute capital letter, Yes, let's do that. And

536
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: so you can see the support of the White the

537
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: Mercedes organization for these topics, and here we go. The

538
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: car is still black until today.

539
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Netflix and Drive to Survive.

540
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of the show. I couldn't help but

541
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: notice that in the first season, you guys really didn't

542
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: participate in it. It now looks like you're not only participating,

543
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 1: but enjoying it. Tell us a little bit about your

544
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: experience with Netflix.

545
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: Clearly, Ferrari and do has got that wrong at the beginning,

546
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: because we decided for ourselves work participants in the Formula

547
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: one World Championships, and my colleague at Ferrari outspoken Italian

548
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: said we're not seeing the Solai, so we're not going

549
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: to act. And my approach was try to be pragmatic

550
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: and said, the moment you have microphones on you and cameras,

551
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: you're going to start to act. And I don't want

552
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: my engineers to act for some cameras, so we said

553
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: we're not doing it. But that was a blessing in

554
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: disguise because as we were not playing as the main protagonists,

555
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 2: Netflix was showing smaller teams, was showing drivers that weren't

556
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: competing for racemans or podiums, and that in itself created

557
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 2: the interest from our fans for the spot. So you two,

558
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: we joined, and from then on it's been it's been

559
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: a blast. They're doing a fantastic job the impossible task

560
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: of showing is sport, a real sport and honest sport,

561
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: and on the other side trying to make it spectacular

562
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: and exciting and drama and glory. But it's been a

563
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: great success for Netflix and Formula one overall.

564
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: So it's obviously brought a ton of new fans, and

565
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: not just overseas, but especially here in the United States,

566
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 1: and now there are multiple races that take place here

567
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: each year. How has the Netflix documentary expanded the audience

568
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: and expanded where you guys actually run races.

569
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: I think there were a few pillars that came together

570
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: for it to be so Formula one to be so successful.

571
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: We were the first spot to actually race in twenty twenty.

572
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: We had a very discipline and strangent COVID protocol. People

573
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: were at home. Netflix was showing our series and the

574
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: racing was excited, exciting the first up Hamilton, Saga, the

575
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 2: Grand Prix that you mentioned, twenty one, Abu Dhabi, many

576
00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: young drivers being avid social media protagonists, and all of

577
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: that contributed to a boom of Former One in the

578
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: United States. We've always been in Austin. It's a fantastic place,

579
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: and last year was the single biggest event in the

580
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 2: United States to my knowledge, with four hundred and forty

581
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: thousand people. And since then Miami has joined, in Las

582
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: Vegas has joined, and Formula one has been booming in

583
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: the United States in that affluent demographic. Our strongest growing

584
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: group is the young females fifteen to thirty five, believe

585
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: it or not, and that shows how you know, all

586
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: the things have come together and we are on a

587
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: successful path. But you've got to be wary. We know

588
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: that we are in the entertainment industry. We need to

589
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: provide a product that is exciting and if we fail

590
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: to do so, we could as well hit some stumbling blocks.

591
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: So you do a pretty good job at not only

592
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: maintaining your emotions but not revealing a lot. I kind

593
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: of got the sense in the beginning of the first

594
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: season that you participated in I was like, all right,

595
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: this is an annoyance, but I'll play it. Seems like

596
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: over the past few seasons you've kind of learned to

597
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: enjoy yourself more on camera, and sometimes it feels like

598
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: you're just throwing out these little bombs and leaving them there.

599
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: For some of your competitors, especially at Red Bill, you

600
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: seem to like to get under other people's skin in

601
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: a very subtle way. How much fun has the entire

602
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: Netflix Drive to Survive experience been for you?

603
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 2: At the beginning, most of the teams gave Netflix a

604
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 2: full access to the premises and to the team members.

605
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: And by the way, you could do that if you're

606
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: the back of the pack, right, you have too much

607
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: stuff that you don't want anybody else to see.

608
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but even front running teams failed. They needed to

609
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: be left and sent into the camera, and that's not

610
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: something we wanted to be, so we gave we immersed

611
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: them fully for our race to season, and funnily enough,

612
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: these were always our worst performances, but not Netflix's fault.

613
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: And over time you just you just realize that you

614
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 2: embed those people into the team. We put them in

615
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 2: team cloth so they weren't looking like aliens in the garage.

616
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: And since then they have just been part of our

617
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 2: of our of our sport. And they've always been very

618
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: fair when it comes about, you know, cutting out stuff

619
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: that it was not appropriate or that wasn't right to say.

620
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: And it's been a great, great relationship. And some of

621
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 2: our you know, some of my colleagues, they they're just

622
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: keen and being a little bit more on Telly. I'm

623
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: trying to stay authentic to who I am. Sometimes that

624
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: you know, makes me shine in a not so good light.

625
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: I'm not proud for some of the moments that were

626
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: captured on the other side. I want to just continue

627
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 2: to to be like I am and not act. I'm

628
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: not good at acting.

629
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: That's very fair. Let's talk a little bit about what's

630
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: going on in F one today. It's pretty clear that

631
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: over the long haul, no single team has produced the

632
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: best car. Year after year, you could have a run,

633
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: but eventually the platform changes, the rules change. It's sort

634
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: of cyclical. Just how challenging is the F one engineering.

635
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: It seems like it's at an incredibly high level.

636
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: Formula one has always been at the pinnacle of racing

637
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: and high tech. We're an organization of two and a

638
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: half thousand people, half of them on the engine, the

639
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 2: other half on the chassis, and it's science. We're trying

640
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,959
Speaker 2: to utilize the best infrastructure that there exists today, things

641
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 2: that are starting to really kick off on AI and

642
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: as an example, we operate wind tunnels and computational fluid

643
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: dynamic technologies, etc. Etc. And in that respect, it is

644
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: a huge, huge engineering challenge. But you know, having the

645
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 2: best people and the best infrastructure is still no guarantee

646
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 2: for success, as it's been shown in our performance. At

647
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 2: the moment, rules change and Formula one and rules change

648
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 2: to have balance performances out and twice these changes were

649
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: thrown at us and we came out on top. And

650
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 2: this last time with ground effect cars, we were caught

651
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 2: out and we were not among the winning teams.

652
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about some of those

653
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: rule changes, including rules that don't really seem to be enforced. First,

654
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: what's your most and least favored rule change of the

655
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: past few years.

656
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 2: Well, obviously have a certain bias, so if I look

657
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: from the team's perspective. Ground effect cars caused a lot

658
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: of problems because the lower you're round to the ground,

659
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: the faster you are. That smashed the flaws up. And

660
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 2: we were really not great at finding the best compromise here.

661
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: But you know, the rules are the rules. You need

662
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: to be trying to be the best and it's the

663
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 2: same conditions for everyone as long as everyone plays by

664
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 2: the rule book. And that's the tricky bit.

665
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. What rule do you think

666
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: should be more strictly enforced? And they kind of softly enforced,

667
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: Like what are we not being strict about that we

668
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: should be.

669
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: I think the FAA, which the governing body, is trying

670
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: to be compliant and to enforce regulations, but sometimes you know,

671
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 2: they are facing a group of many thousands of engineers

672
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: on the team sides and they are maybe twenty so

673
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: they are always on the back foot trying to keep

674
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 2: the spot under control and that's not an easy task.

675
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: What's your take on the budget cap that's now imposed

676
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: on F one teams. When they did this in the

677
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: National Football League here, it was to create a level

678
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: playing field so all teams could be competitive. What are

679
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: you seeing with this cap, how is it affecting the

680
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: way you guys hire and engineer the cars.

681
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: Well, the cost cap was implemented by Chase Carey, who

682
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: knew everything about media and football in the United States,

683
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: and he said, I'm gonna I need to protect you

684
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: from yourselves because Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes were outspending

685
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: each other to have the best talent and best technologies,

686
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 2: and therefore we were always going. We were going faster

687
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: than many of the small teams. And he came in

688
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: with that. I was against obviously because we had the resource,

689
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: but he came in and our business models have changed

690
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: since then. We have profitable entities and not just the

691
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: marketing activity. And you can see this today there's four

692
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: teamstead of I think for for race victory. So he

693
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 2: was right.

694
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: Where does the budget cap show its biggest effect? Is

695
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: it in the top speed of the cars? Is it

696
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: the handler in the cars? Is it the driver selection?

697
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 1: Where do you see the biggest impact of that that cap?

698
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 2: Well, drivers for example, are still excluded, which is something

699
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: we are looking at for the future, and certain marketing costs.

700
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 2: But as a matter of fact, everybody spends the same

701
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 2: amount of money to date, it's about one hundred and

702
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 2: six and sixty five million dollars a year on engineering.

703
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: And that's a big number.

704
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 2: That's still a very big number, But we spent double

705
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 2: before that. So how should a small team like has

706
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: compete with a Mecedes juggernaut that's spending double the money

707
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 2: on engineering today it's the same. Obviously, that catch up

708
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 2: phase is going to take longer because we have infrastructure

709
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: that's been created since a long time. We spend a

710
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: billion in our sides I guess in the last ten years,

711
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 2: but over time that's going to level out. And that's

712
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: why it was the right decision.

713
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: So let's talk about some other teams. First of all,

714
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: what do you think about Andretti? Should he be allowed

715
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: to join? Should there be another team in Formula one?

716
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: First of all, the teams have no say in this.

717
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: It's the governing body and the commercial rights holder. My

718
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: personal opinion is that if a team wants to enter

719
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 2: Formula one, it should be carefully evaluated like it's being

720
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: done in the US, like the NFL decides who is joining,

721
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 2: and for us, it's a very easy exercise. If a

722
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: team can contribute to the formula success, Formula one success

723
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 2: by increasing its audiences, marketing power, etc. Then it's a

724
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 2: logic consequence that as a team we would be for it.

725
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 2: But then of course we have no vote, which just

726
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 2: can we just give our opinion? And I think this

727
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 2: is the exercise that formula one and the governing body

728
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: you need to evaluate who is providing a real usb

729
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 2: and providing a contribution to the spot that makes it

730
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 2: grow beyond the current CP.

731
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: Right. So in the US, when we expanded baseball and

732
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: we expanded football, there was a little dilution of talent.

733
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: You had a little you had fewer Juggernauts, although arguably

734
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 1: Tom Brady and the New England Patriots ran the table

735
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: for quite a while. Is that a risk if we

736
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: add more teams or there's plenty of talent to go around.

737
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: I think you need to embrace all competition. We are

738
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 2: there to fight against the other teams, and whoever's not

739
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 2: doing a better job this deserves to win. So that

740
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: is not at all a limiting factor. I think the

741
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: US leagues have done it. It needs to be carefully

742
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: evaluated what the benefit is of increasing of increasing the

743
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: amount of teams joining for the incumbents and also for

744
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: a new team and the sport overall.

745
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: So let's talk about drivers Lewis Hamilton, Max Rostab and

746
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: the previous generation Michael Schumacher. How do you rate these

747
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: top Formula one racers.

748
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 2: Each of them was the predominant driver in the areas eras.

749
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 2: Each of these drivers have been the predominant drivers of

750
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 2: the of their era. And it's very difficult to compare

751
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 2: Fangio to Moss, to Senna to Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton

752
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: for stubm now because they're all different and we wouldn't

753
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: do them justice by doing such a simple comparison. But

754
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: if you look at the pure numbers today, Lewis has

755
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: scored the most victories, the most boy positions in his

756
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: unequal power with Michael Schumacher in terms of titles, maybe

757
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: he should have could have one more in twenty twenty one.

758
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 2: So that's the fact of the methom huh.

759
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: Really interesting. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm

760
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: going to ask my curveball question, and then I have

761
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of technical questions. You had this fascinating

762
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: quote in a voting international which I thought was really

763
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: really interesting quote. I think in life you must have

764
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: three motivations, somebody to love, something to do, and something

765
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: to dream of. Explain that that's not exactly what I

766
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: think of when I think of a Formula one principle.

767
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 2: I think I had some tough moments in my life.

768
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: My upbringing wasn't easy. My father died very young, we

769
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: literally had no money, and over the course of time,

770
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: mental healths has been something that I have struggled with

771
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 2: at times. And so I came to the realization, after

772
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 2: you know, becoming older, what is it really that makes

773
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: us happy, that makes us strive? And these three things

774
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 2: kind of summarize it for me. When you are running

775
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: out of dreams or when you're running out of activity,

776
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: and if you can't have someone to share it with,

777
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: then for me, there is such a big gap that

778
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: exists in your life that I would you know, but

779
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 2: that's maybe just my personal view.

780
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: Well, that's very philosophical. It's not what we typically think

781
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 1: of when we think of competitive sports. It's thoughtful and introspective,

782
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: and it just stood out to me, is not what

783
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: I would have expected from you.

784
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 2: I deal with people, you know, this is all about

785
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 2: humans being on a journey in the team, trying to

786
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: be successful, and if you are, you know, more vulnerable

787
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 2: in terms of your feelings, you introspect more. That's happened,

788
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 2: That's happening to me all the time. So I think,

789
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 2: you know, we are more visible leaders in organizations. We

790
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: should be. We should be speaking more about mental healths

791
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: rather than appearing like the unbreakable, unbreakable individuals that have

792
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: never weak moments.

793
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: So let's spend some time talking about getting a little technical,

794
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: talking about some F one issues that I think are

795
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: really fascinating. So it seems like a lot of the

796
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: head to head racing takes place in the middle of

797
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: the field, not the front of the field. What do

798
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: you think about some of the proposals and some of

799
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: the ideas to make that head to head passing in

800
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: the front of the field. How are the rules being

801
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: considered so that you just don't I'm Monaco is a

802
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: special case, but it seems like in some races it's

803
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: much harder if you have two people neck and neck

804
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: for the number two car at the front of the

805
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 1: front of the grid to pass the number one car.

806
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 2: I think there's two reasons. It's very track specific. Many tracks,

807
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: even with close performances, you can overtake. Long straights are

808
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 2: important factor because the aerodynamic efficiencies of those cars are

809
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 2: so good that it's difficult to get out of the

810
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: slipstream because there isn't anyone any slipstream anymore. The other

811
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 2: thing is that the competition is to close. Sometimes you

812
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 2: have a second between P one and P fifteen and they.

813
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: Are for four second. Wow, that's amazing, that's amazing.

814
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: We have top eight cars sometimes separated within three or

815
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: four tenths, and that's why there is no car ever

816
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: to be so much faster. So it only works with

817
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 2: strategy and entire degradation. But this season has been pretty

818
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 2: successful in terms of overtakes and excitement.

819
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: So there was a comment from Benito that making AUDI

820
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: successful will be like climbing Everest. What are your thoughts

821
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: on that.

822
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 2: I think that's a pretty good analogy. Formula one is

823
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 2: a very high entry barrier spot. But if somebody can

824
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: do it, then an organization like AUDI. I mean, they

825
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: have been very successful in motor racing in general. The

826
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 2: Alemant program was the best ever, and they have the

827
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: capability and they will attract the people to make it

828
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: a success. But one thing that I've learned in Formula one.

829
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 2: You need time and I hope that as an OEM,

830
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: they are capable of giving the project enough time, like

831
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 2: Mercedes has given us enough time to become successful.

832
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: Let's talk about gearbox and transmission development. Are we at

833
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: peak gear changing? Is there more performance to be run

834
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: out of that?

835
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 2: Now we're getting very specific. Yeah, the gearboxes today a

836
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 2: fully thematic, seamless shift gearboxes and it doesn't go you know,

837
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: there's no talk break anymore.

838
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: It's literally instant like there's just a millisecond between gears.

839
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: You wouldn't even feel it, which is which is amazing technology.

840
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 2: So that is pretty managed, you know, to the max

841
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 2: of what it can be. And in power units in

842
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, we're becoming sustainable engines, still highly efficient,

843
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: highly powerful, fifty percent combustion, fifty percent electric, but with

844
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 2: one hundred percent waste based biofueld. And this is where

845
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: the world is going zero carbon carbon emission reduced to

846
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: zero because it stays in the cycle. So I think

847
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: we are rolled. We need to be role models in

848
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: the auto industry. We need to be innovative. Ev hasn't

849
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: been as the implementation of electric vehicles hasn't been as

850
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 2: quick as we all thought, and therefore fueling the best

851
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: engines in the world in the quickest cars in the

852
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 2: world with a biofuel, I think is a good way

853
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 2: of participating in the energy transition.

854
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 1: So you guys have done a lot of work both

855
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: modeling and using AI for wind resistance and the dynamics

856
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: of the car in wind tunnels and how it's going

857
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: to react. It seems like that is the most challenging

858
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: aspect to take from the computer to the track. Is

859
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: there some sort of a formula where you're testing something,

860
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: How do you decide this is go or no go?

861
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: When it comes to actually implementing all of the aerodynamics

862
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: to the actual.

863
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 2: Car, there's lots of science behind it. And it's not

864
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 2: only wind tunnels because that is pretty old technology, but

865
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 2: there's simulations, simulations, tool driver and the loop simulators CFD

866
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 2: and lots of other highly sophisticated development capability. But correlation

867
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 2: to the track is then another is then another topic.

868
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: First of all, you have a driver in the car,

869
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 2: the human being you could say, the engine is called

870
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 2: it the weakness between the steering wheel and the engine

871
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 2: good and bad days. How do you put that into data?

872
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: So correlating that is today the crux of the matter.

873
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 2: And that's something that all the teams struggle, that their

874
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: simulations are telling them one thing, but the drivers are

875
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 2: telling them something else.

876
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,280
Speaker 1: It seems more art than science.

877
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 2: I know, I fundamentally believe, and we in the team

878
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 2: do that it is science and it must stay science.

879
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 2: But we haven't with this current ground effect cars all

880
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 2: of us figured out why sometimes it doesn't correlate with

881
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 2: the virtual world.

882
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: It's a model. What's the old line from Professor George

883
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: Box All models are wrong, but some are useful. Is

884
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: that how the ground effects end up working out in

885
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: the real world.

886
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 2: I I didn't hear that sentence, but it pretty much

887
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: sums up where we are today.

888
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, a famous quote about economic modeling. All models are wrong,

889
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: but some are useful. It very much works out. Let

890
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: me jump to my favorite questions that I asked all

891
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 1: of my guests, starting with besides Drive to Survive, what

892
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: else do you watch on Netflix? What keeps you entertained?

893
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 2: Well? I was never kind of a TV person so much.

894
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 2: I preferred to read, do some sports, but most recently

895
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 2: there's more and more interesting streaming series coming out. I

896
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: like sports documentaries. The last one that I enjoyed was printers.

897
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 2: That was different sports that I didn't that I didn't

898
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: know a lot about. Still about speed, Still about speed.

899
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: I like to Tour de France, the documentary, So that's

900
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: more the kind of spectrum that I like to watch.

901
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: Let's talk about mentors who helped shape your career, who

902
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: helped put you on the path that you've been on.

903
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: When I was eight years old, my dad got very

904
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 2: ill and died a few years later, and my mother

905
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: could barely make our living. I was responsible for myself

906
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: and my sister, and that very much carved my personality.

907
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 2: There was no mentor I was. I had the responsibility

908
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 2: and accountability since my early years, and that's who I am.

909
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: Our final two questions. Someone's interested in a career in racing,

910
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: in Formula one in high performance engineering, what sort of

911
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: advice would you give them?

912
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 2: My advice to someone would be like, if you're able

913
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 2: at an early age to find out what you enjoy doing,

914
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: and that may change. I think by the way, young

915
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 2: people much too under pressure to find the so called

916
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 2: passion at the age of twenty two, which is nonsense.

917
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 2: Give them, give them time to be all around us

918
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 2: and then in the late twenties to find out what

919
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 2: they want to specialize in. But you can become all

920
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: you want if motor racing or engineering or driving is

921
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: what you think you're good at, and then give it

922
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 2: all you have and you will be eventually successful.

923
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: And our final question, what do you know about the

924
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: world of Formula one racing today that you wish you

925
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: knew when you first started out with the Williams team?

926
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 2: All of it? I mean literally, when I started, I

927
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 2: didn't understand many fundamental topics in Formula one. But it's

928
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 2: part of the trajectory. You've got to learn it the

929
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 2: hard way, sometimes by doing it by failing. So that's

930
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 2: all you know was all important.

931
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: Thank you Toto for being so generous with your time.

932
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Toto Wolf. He is the

933
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: principal and CEO of Mercedes F one team. If you

934
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 1: enjoy this conversation, well, be sure and check out all

935
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: of the previous five hundred or so we've done over

936
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: the past ten years. You can find those at Bloomberg, YouTube, iTunes, Spotify,

937
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 1: wherever you find your favorite podcasts. And be sure and

938
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 1: check out my new short form podcast at the Money

939
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: conversations with experts about your money, earning it, spending it,

940
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: and most importantly, investing it at the Money wherever you

941
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: find your favorite podcasts or in the Masters in Business feed,

942
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I do not thank our

943
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: crack team that helps put these conversations together each week.

944
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: Steve Gonzalez is my audio engineer. Anna Luke is my producer.

945
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: Sean Russo is my head of research. Sage Bauman is

946
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: the head of all podcasts here at Bloomberg. I'm Barry Rihelts.

947
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio