1 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast. 2 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: My name is Mike Reagan. I'm a senior editor at 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg and I'm Baldanna hired across Acid Report at Bloomberg. 4 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: And this week on the show, we'll talk about a 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: big milestone for cryptocurrencies this week when some of the 6 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: leading players in the industry went to Congress to answer 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: some good questions and let's be honest, some not so 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: good questions. But it's all about how digital assets should 9 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: be regulated by the government. We're gonna talk to one 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: of the executives who testified, as well as his colleague 11 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: about some of the big issues that came up, as 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: well as about what a wild year it was in crypto. 13 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: But first of all, Donna, I have to tell you, you 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 1: you know, I was watching this hearing yesterday and as 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, you give me a hard time for asking 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: very long, convoluted questions. And after watching this hearing, I 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: had an epiphany. I think I should run for Congress. 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: I think I would fit in Oh wow, yeah, honestly 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: you might. I have the same thought when I was 20 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: watching the hearings. And if you do, all I want 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: to ask you is that I be your campaign manager, 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: because I don't think that your jokes might they might 23 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: not be good enough for you to actually run for Congress. 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: Really really sorry to break that to you. Yeah, well, 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: I you know, I think the problem is you have 26 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: questionable taste and jokes sexually, but you have excellent taste 27 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: in podcast guests. And I'm super excited about the two 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: that you talked and joining us this week. What a 29 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: what great timing, Vilda. Timing is everything in in markets 30 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: in podcast, and you've got us two great guests for 31 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: this week, So uh, tell the listeners who they are 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: and bring them into the show here. Yeah, I'm as 33 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: excited as you are about the two guests we have. 34 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: We have the chief executive officer of FTX that's Sam 35 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: BANKMNT Freed, and we have f t x u S 36 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: President Brett Harrison. They're both joining us, and I want 37 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: to welcome you both to the podcast. Thanks for having us. Yeah, 38 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: thank you. Yes, Sam, I've got a lot of questions 39 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: about you know, sort of f t x's goals and 40 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: the cryptocurrency world in general. First, though, I think a 41 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: question that's on a lot of listeners minds outside of 42 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: that space is I know you're in touch with Tom 43 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: Brady from time to time, and I want to ask 44 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: on behalf of all NFL fans other than the Tampa 45 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: Bay Buccaneers, is this guy ever going to retire? I 46 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: I hope not. I will see, but I'm I'm expecting 47 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: Steven d That's that's my my kind of betting line. 48 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: Age seventy. Oh my gosh. All right, all right, that's 49 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: not good news to the rest of the NFL. I 50 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: think he'll still be uh, he'll still be winning games 51 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: at age seventy. Maybe you can talk to Giselle. I 52 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,839 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know. Yeah, she's uh. They're both 53 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: doing pretty well. And it's it's bad news for me 54 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: because my team, the Buffalo Bills, are playing Brady this weekend. 55 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: So that's bad that is might not be a good 56 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: weekend for me. Well, they've got a history of that. 57 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: But Sam, if we can maybe just start with you. 58 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: Mike mentioned the hearings that we had this week. I 59 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: want to actually ask you about what the hearings were like, 60 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: because it seemed like the quality of the questions was 61 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: a little bit better than what we've seen in the past, 62 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: or maybe what even a lot of people were expecting. Yeah, 63 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: I totally agree with that, and I think the questions 64 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: were better in more informed than I was expecting. I 65 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: also think that they were more more balanced. I think 66 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: that I was expecting I think, more grandstanding, and and 67 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: I think I was just wasn't we surprised? In general? 68 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: I think I think like to has done a really 69 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: good job of starting to get you know, to speed 70 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: on digital assets, and I think that they showed a 71 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: lot of eagerness to continue learning. You know, Sam and 72 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: and Brett you chime into if you have any thoughts, obviously, 73 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: But what I think about sort of the where we 74 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: are in the evolution of the cryptocurrency market. You know, 75 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: I'm I'm an older gentleman, as listeners know, I've been 76 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: covered markets for a long time, and I think back 77 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: to like ten or fifteen years when the stock market 78 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: was sort of stole in the adolescents phase when it 79 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: comes to you know, electronic trading, algorithmic trading and computerized markets, 80 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: and boy, there were all sorts of hiccups and flash crashes, 81 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: and you know the famous night Trading debacle where a 82 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: bad algorithm almost you know, wiped out the firm. Uh 83 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: in a few minutes, and it seems to me like 84 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: there's a lot of parallels now where crypto is in 85 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: sort of that that adolescent stage where there's still stuff 86 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: going wrong. And I want to give us an example. 87 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: A few months ago, Wasn't on FTX, another exchange where 88 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: the price of bitcoin I believe it's due to some 89 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,559 Speaker 1: error and an algorithm, someone sold bitcoin for like eighty 90 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: seven percent below the market price. I wondered, how you 91 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: guys look at the market now in the sort of 92 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: respect to this idea of regulation and what needs to 93 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 1: be done to to get more mature. Is that type 94 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: of thing I described, Um, is that a problem that 95 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: you think needs to be solved or is it more 96 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 1: the type of thing that's like, well, thanks for playing guide, 97 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, better luck next time. Yeah, I mean, I 98 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: think breast some thoughts on this, but you know, I 99 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: think briefly, is there one of many examples of times 100 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: where yeah, I think these are absolutely problems that need 101 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: to be solved, but I think that they're pretty straightforward 102 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: solutions to a lot of them. And like, you know, 103 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: price bands are just sort of like you know, it's 104 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: not like we put them on JEX. Is not that complex, 105 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: and I think that in a lot of cases is like, yeah, 106 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: there's definitely ways the market needs to grow, but it 107 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: shouldn't be that hard to get there. Yeah. I think 108 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: the fact that cryptocurrency exchanges came about much later in 109 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: the technological development of the Internet and software and just 110 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: how how easy it is to deploy software on a cloud, 111 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: for example, means that the barrier to entry to making 112 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: an exchange was super loud, which has its good parts 113 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: and it's bad parts. Like if you want to, you know, 114 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: write in your garage some code and try to deploy 115 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: a new nastac tomorrow, you can't. There's way too many 116 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: barriers centers of doing that. But there are literally thousands 117 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: of exchanges where you can buy bitcoint I certainly can't 118 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: name them all, and there's only a couple that really 119 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: matter in terms of volume. But there are thousands of exchanges, 120 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: which means not all of those players, absent of a 121 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: clear regulatory framework in the US, are going to create 122 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: the right rules to make sure that their exchange doesn't 123 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: scribble a lot and print something way down or just 124 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: break or you know, be halted for a long time. Uh. 125 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: And so it's up to exchanges like FTX is just 126 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: sort of put in the right rules. And you know, Sam, myself, 127 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: we were at Change Street and other trading firms for 128 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: a long time. We're used to how other exchanges work, 129 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, well here's a common sense thing 130 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: which has put some price bands in place. Not a 131 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: very difficult thing. But if you haven't been, you know, 132 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: growing up in that environment, you don't think to do 133 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: this sort of stuff. So Sam, you said, just to 134 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: follow up on that and just to expand it a 135 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: little bit more. You said, there's there are ways for 136 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: the market to grow. And I know my team has 137 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: been thinking about this a lot, because what I hear 138 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: from time to time is that was the year that 139 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: crypto sort of grew up is typically the phrase that 140 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: I hear. So in what ways does the market still 141 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: have to evolve and in what ways can it grow? 142 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: As you say, there are ways for it to do. Yeah, 143 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I think like one obvious place is frankly 144 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: on the regulatory side, where you know, I think that 145 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: there is a lot of messy parts of the regulatory 146 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: eco system today. I think that agains some some fairly 147 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: straight forwards things could help that a ton. I think 148 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: just like regulation enforcing that stable points are fully reserved 149 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: is like something that would address I think a lot 150 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: of the current concerns around them. And I think that 151 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, having a feer markets framework for digital asset 152 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: would be really work. Right now, there is a framework 153 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: for modity future is, there's a framework for security spot. 154 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: It's not clear what their framework is for commodity spot market. 155 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: They're not all the same framework. It's not clear with 156 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: their registration framework for a digital asset security token. And 157 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: I think that these these are all things which I 158 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: think have to be addressed. But again I'm optimistic is 159 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: not that hard to address them within the current system 160 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: and and to kind of get to a much more 161 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: robust um and mature place from regulatory perspective, you know, 162 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: I know coin Base has proposed an s r O 163 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: self regulatory organization similar to what's in the in place 164 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: in the stock market and other markets where it's really 165 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: the you know, the industry is policing itself and not 166 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: as reliant on sort of an outside regulator to sort 167 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: of cover the day by day issues, uh that come up? 168 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: Is that something you guys would get on board with. 169 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: Two In general, we're on board with that, and I'm 170 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 1: actually one of the exchanges that we own f t 171 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: x C strivatives. It is an s r oh, it's 172 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: a d s r O. But when you think about 173 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: how it is in the equity markets with finn Red 174 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 1: for example, Finra as we know it today was the 175 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: evolution of decades of equity markets. In order to get 176 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: to the point where we have the ideal s r 177 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 1: O for crypto, this is not something that's going to 178 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: happen in three months or six months or a year. 179 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: And we are in the situation right now where there 180 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: is unclear regulation, with many exchanges choosing to impose different 181 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: policies upon themselves and thus adding confusion and regulatory risk. 182 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of common sense things that we 183 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: could do with the existing regulatory frameworks without having to 184 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: wait for building the perfect s r O for crypto. Yeah, 185 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: and I basically agree with that. I think, you know, 186 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: also saying that there should be s ROS and crypto 187 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: doesn't mean there shouldn't be federal regulatory oversight as well. 188 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,239 Speaker 1: Like I think that you know, in addition to s ROS, 189 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, the SEC and the CFC and other regulars 190 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: have important les to plan the crypto regulatory ecosystem. I guess, 191 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, the the issue that comes up a lot 192 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: is that, you know, sort of the light hand of 193 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: regulators is kind of what's attractive to a lot of 194 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: people in the crypto world and the defied world. Does 195 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: the US focusing on this and and sort of being 196 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: trying to be the standard bear for regulation, does that 197 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: Do you think that makes the US a more attractive 198 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: or less attractive sort of the capital of the world 199 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: for for cryptocurrencies or is there a risk that you know, 200 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: everything goes to uh to some country where uh, you know, 201 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: they're they're a little more hands off. I would change 202 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: the but the tenses there a little bit. It has 203 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: been something that I think has led to that. And 204 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: you look today, you know, the United States is something 205 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: like five to ten percent of global crypto volume, just 206 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: tiny compared to it's kind of broader fraction of uh, 207 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: you know, most markets. But but I'm optimistic that it 208 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: could become that could go from a negative choy positive 209 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: again without that much work by you know, getting in 210 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: a more stable position than any worlds in the world. 211 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, Bright, interested in your thoughts on this. Do yeah, 212 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: my take is that it's not regulation alone that drives 213 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: the business away from the US, it's lack of clarity 214 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: and therefore regulatory uncertainty. Being worried that if you make 215 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: the wrong decision you might be hit with an enforcement 216 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: action two years from now makes it a pretty unattractive 217 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: place to try to be an entrepreneur. The derivatives markets 218 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: in the US, for example, on the CFDC are some 219 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: of the strictest in the world, but we also have 220 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: most of the world's liquidity and derivatives. Think about the 221 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: SMP future or the treasury bond futures or gold futures 222 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: are some of the most liquid instruments in the world 223 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: under one of the strictest derivatives regimes in the world. 224 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: But it's a clear regulatory framework, and that makes it 225 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: possible for people to innovative, to be able to create exchanges, 226 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: to be able to either become fcms or dc ms, 227 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: you know, exchanges or clearing members, and be able to 228 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: provide liquidity that way. It's just lack of priority, this 229 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: gray area that everyone's operating in that I think is 230 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: driving the talent and the new operations off shore. Yes, 231 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: some I wanted to get back to that idea of 232 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: stable coins you mentioned, you know, your your proponent that 233 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: stable coins should be back on to one uh per dollar. 234 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: And for listeners who don't aren't too familiar with this 235 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: space of stable coins basically a cryptocurrency that is designed 236 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: to track the dollar one to one or or some 237 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: other currency one to one. I wondered how to algorithmic 238 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: backed stable coins fit in or should they be in 239 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: a completely other bucket than sort of the sort of 240 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: the tethers of the world that are actually backed by 241 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: by US dollars. Yeah, I think they should be in 242 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: any diet. I'm guessing you know an example of one 243 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: that you're thinking about there, And I think the basic 244 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: answer is again, I think clarity and transparency are are 245 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: the key things here. You know, maybe there's a different 246 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: word like maybe you have sort of like they were 247 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: fully reserved stable poins, any of like algorithmics, stable points, 248 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: or whatever words you want to use, but it should 249 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: be clearly disclosed users that this isn't a stable point 250 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: in the sense of being backed one to one by 251 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: a stable lasset, right, It's an algorithmic thing which attempts 252 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: to maintain a price pag but could fail and I 253 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: think it's an interesting product. I think it's a different 254 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: product then you know, something like USDC is. While we're 255 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: talking about regulation, I wanted to bring up tether because 256 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,479 Speaker 1: that tends to come up during conversations of crypto and regulation, 257 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: and a lot of regulators say that tether has gotten 258 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: so large that if something were to go awry, it 259 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: actually could post challenges to other areas of the market. 260 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: So if we if we do see something go awry, 261 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: what areas might you look to to sort of to 262 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: see that happening in the first place. Yeah, I mean 263 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: I think I'll say, like this is I think one 264 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: of the reasons why it would be really valuable to 265 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: move to a system where you know, there is a 266 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: clear regulatory framework for transparency around the reserves of stable points. 267 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 1: I think that would go a long way here for 268 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: it's providing um, you know, concerned protection, systemic risk. UM. 269 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: I don't think that it's currently at a place where 270 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: it is threatening. I think what people are most worried 271 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: about most things, they do think it is probably back 272 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: right now by by sufficient assets. But that doesn't necessarily 273 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: mean it always will be, and that doesn't necessarily mean 274 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: that there's enough transparency around that it would be I 275 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: think healthy to move to a framework where there is 276 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: sort of more enforced transparency around that because they won 277 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: and wants to take part in uh, you know, in 278 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: U S scrypto markets. One think I wanted to and 279 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: I do want to sort of talk about FTX specifically 280 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: and what's next for you guys. But one more sort 281 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: of regulatory based question. And I'm fascinating with the notion 282 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: of anonymity in the crypto space. I mean, obviously the 283 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: whole industry was born in anonymity with Satoshi uh No, 284 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: one's I'm still quite sure who he is. Maybe Sam, 285 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: if you know, you can break some news here, but 286 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm guessing not. But to me, the more scrutiny, the 287 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: more sort of effects you have looking into this space, 288 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: the more dangerous anonymity gets, you know, especially when you 289 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: get into stuff with you know, n f T s 290 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: and you see these stories about wash trades where you know, 291 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: it looks like someone selling an n f T to 292 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: themselves for a couple of thousand ether, you know, and 293 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: and and that sort of thing. Does the scrutiny do 294 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: you guys think, does it sort of make anonymity a 295 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: dangerous thing, something that's going to be less of a 296 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: key pillar of of the crypto world going forward. Yeah, personally, 297 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: I think that the blockchain technology on its own can 298 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: exist independently of whether or not you have a fully 299 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: anonymous system that's using that distributed ledge of technology. You 300 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: think about what f t X does. Not only is it, 301 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, non anonymous. I mean we don't publish who 302 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: is doing the trays with each other, right, it's it's anonymous. 303 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: That's the same way that a stock exchange is anonymous 304 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: in that sense. But we are fully ky seeing our users. 305 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: We need to know exactly that they're not from a 306 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: sanction jurisdiction or they're a sanctioned individual. We need to 307 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: know enough information about them so that we can do 308 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: proper tax reporting. So it's almost a complete opposite of 309 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: anonymity in that sense. And even for cases like uh, 310 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: non custodial while it address which doesn't have a name 311 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: associated with it, there are all these great technological tools 312 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: like chain analysis and TRM labs that help you identify 313 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: known while it addresses that maybe they're coming from an exchange, 314 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: or maybe they're coming from North Korea, and you know, 315 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: to ban all deposits and withdrawals to and from those addresses. 316 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: So there's a lot that we know about the network 317 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: that's participating in blockchain transactions that's fairly not anonymous. And 318 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: of course there's different tools that people have built, different 319 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: kinds of coins that would enable stuff like that. That's, 320 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: you know, not necessarily something that we're hugely supportive of, 321 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: but it's it's also independent of the question of, you know, 322 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: how where this technology is heading. And then Mike mentioned 323 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: n f T s and I know Bloomberg had a 324 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: story earlier this week that showed a really small portion 325 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: of participants tend to reap the greatest gains when it 326 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: comes to selling n f T. So I'm wondering, Brett, 327 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: maybe you can answer this question. Do you think that 328 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: the n f T market is a manipulated market? And 329 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: I want to know if you guys participate in these 330 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: so called white lists where these you know, this tiny 331 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: portion of participants does tend to reap these benefits. So 332 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: what we're seeing is that there's not just a number 333 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: a small number of people reaping the benefits. There's a 334 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 1: small number of people interacting with the n f T ecosystem. Period, 335 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,719 Speaker 1: and I think that has less to do with you know, manipulation. 336 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: Let's yeah, maybe there is. It's hard to know exactly 337 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: what's going on in that market. I think what is 338 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: true is that the barrier to entry for for example, 339 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: n f T marketplaces is pretty high for the existing marketplaces. 340 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: And that's because let's say you want to go buy 341 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: an n f T on opency. What do you have 342 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: to do? Okay, Well, first you have to create a 343 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: meta mask wallet, which is something which you have to 344 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: install a browser extension and create a secret key password. Okay, 345 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: that you have to open an account maybe an f 346 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: b X or coin base and or something like this, 347 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: and buy some ethereum there. Oh, then you have to 348 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: transfer it out to your meta mass wallet, and you 349 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: have to connect to your meta mask wallet to open. 350 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: See we're already six steps in and for the average person, 351 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: you're introducing twenty new concepts and it's very difficult. And 352 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: as long as the n f T world remains very 353 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: very much a defied product, I think there's going to 354 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: be a very high barrier to entry for people, and 355 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: that's why there's so few people interacting with it. That 356 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: plus the idea of spending six million dollars on an image. 357 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: It's a little bit hard to swallow, I think for 358 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: the average person getting into this business. But it's why 359 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: we're pretty excited about n f t s in general, 360 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: because you know, we we do most of the exchange 361 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: that transactions off chain. It's all bundled with the exchange itself, 362 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: and we hope that this is the extent that this 363 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: is going to be a viable market, let's say, for 364 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: things like blockchain gaming or direct to consumer artwork, that 365 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: it can exist in a way that's just as easy 366 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: as you know, buying bitcoin on fd X. Well, I 367 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: gotta ask you guys about meme coins. You know, I'm 368 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: fascinated when you know, you see something like Sheba, you know, 369 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: do what it did? Or or dose coin, do what 370 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: it it did? You know, all of a sudden, you're 371 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: you're looking at a top ten cryptocurrency worth tens of 372 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 1: billions of dollars. Sam, I can only imagine your Twitter 373 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: mentions are filled with pictures of Sheba. You knows on 374 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: a deli basis, you know, But walk us through how 375 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: you guys, sort of what your methodology is when you 376 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: decide whether or not you know, to allow one of 377 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: these coins on your exchange? You know, is there is 378 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: there sort of a hard and fast rules? Is it 379 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: a case by case type of thing? How how do 380 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: you decide? All right, let's let's let the let's let 381 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: the meme point on. Yeah, I s I'll say that 382 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot of factors that go into this, right. 383 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: One of these is regulatory understanding, the regulatory framework and 384 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: jurisdiction of it. And this is different in different countries 385 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: as well, you know, understanding, you know, is this the security? 386 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: Is there one one piece of this? I think another 387 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: thing is looking at what is the demand for this? Right? 388 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: Is this what our users want? And in the end, 389 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: you know, we don't try to make investment decisions for 390 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: our users. Like we see our users as the ones 391 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: who are taking charge of their financial future here and 392 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: we want to enable that. Um And I think one 393 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: of these is like is there broad risk or something 394 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: like that from this? You know, I think I think 395 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: those tend to be it's kind of the biggest factors 396 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: UM that that at least I think I usually look 397 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: at on that front. And I'm guessing your users are 398 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: skewed have more heavily towards the professional all the institutions, 399 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: uh n less towards the retails, that's not a safe bet. Yeah, 400 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: certainly relative to the average exchange and I think, you know, 401 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: we have like three times point basis daily trading volume 402 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: and I think they have something like ten times are 403 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: user base. So speaking of your exchange and Sam, I'm 404 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: hoping you could maybe enlighten us a little bit more 405 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: on this. But there have been some reports that your 406 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: latest funding round values you guys that around thirty two 407 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: billion dollars, which is a really big number. So I 408 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about that and whether or not 409 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: you could confirm those reports for us and feel free 410 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: to break news on the podcast. We would love that, um. 411 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: But I also wanted to ask you why so soon 412 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: you're raising money again following your previous round, which happened 413 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: just back in October, So you know, you don't don't 414 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: want to give certain details of it. I apologize for that, 415 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: but you know, I think we'll say is that we've 416 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: had a ton of demand to invest in f ts. 417 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: We sort of continue to at that demand, and we 418 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: want to find a way to meet that demand. And 419 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: so I think a lot of this is just driven 420 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: by you know, people are asking to invest, and we 421 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: want to find a way to stillitate that. That's a 422 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: big piece of this, you know, I think outside of that, like, 423 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: I think the biggest things we're thinking about are, you know, 424 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: there's a lot of really powerful use for MUSS for 425 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: capital um that that we see in the ecosystems that 426 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: we want to continue to be able to to fill here. 427 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: You know, I think that that that is sort of 428 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: everything from you know, acquisitions, you know, m may backstop funds, 429 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: So I think those are sort of you know, those 430 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: together are are most of what we're looking at. Guess 431 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: from that perspective. Yeah, I think in general, like if 432 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: you look at f t X and its growth and 433 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: how long or rather not long it's been around as 434 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,719 Speaker 1: a company, the whole timeline is crunched into what we 435 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,959 Speaker 1: see as a good pace, But for the rest of 436 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: the capital markets feels like warp speed, and I think 437 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: that's just you know, well, why wait, there's fleally demand. 438 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: There's clearly ways for us to deploy that capital quickly 439 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: and use that to grow and continue to leverage what 440 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: we see as our technological platform for all the adjacent 441 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: areas that we can hook up into and you know, 442 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: why not continue to to raise or to think about 443 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: raising you know where we can Yeah, makes sense. I 444 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: gott admit I've been going to ease you on. You guys, well, 445 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: Donna will tell you. I usually ask like eleven park questions. Uh, 446 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: he does. I'm gonna get a two part question in 447 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: at least, um, what is you know what's next for 448 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: f t X? You know what? What are sort of 449 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: the ambitions? Is it capturing more market share? Are there 450 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: sort of other you know, lanes of the of the 451 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: crypto industry you can get into? And the second part 452 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: is when you buy a Super Bowl ad, do you 453 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 1: at least get a free ticket to the game? I'll 454 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: say on the second one, I I don't think we 455 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: got a free ticket to the game with that, although, um, 456 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: I do think we may be able to stround some 457 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: tickets up one way or another. Here. You know a 458 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 1: few football players in our network, not really sure if 459 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: we can name them, but there's a couple of people 460 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: that were adjacent to their You need Brady to have 461 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: a good playoffs, I guess to get the good seats. 462 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: I can dream, but talk about those ambitions. You know 463 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: what's what? How do you grow the company from here. 464 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: I mean, uh and obviously such a as Valdanna said, 465 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: a tour pace of growth. I mean, you know, one 466 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: can only assume you've got to sort of take a 467 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: take a deep breath and expect the growth to slow. 468 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: But what are the ambitions going forward? And we have 469 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: so many different ones, but you know, I can start 470 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: with a couple, and you know, say, I'm could take 471 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,239 Speaker 1: a couple. But our most exciting area for growth right 472 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: now has to do with derivatives. As you guys know, 473 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: most of the world's crypto volume trades and derivatives. And 474 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: the reason that FBX International became one of the largest, 475 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: if not the largest crypto platforms in the world, has 476 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: been through that it's superior technology and risk engine as 477 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: a derivatives platform. And up to now, we haven't been 478 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: able to bring those products the US customers because we 479 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: didn't have the licenses. But now that we have finished 480 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: acquiring ledger x and we branded them to f to 481 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: X Strivatives, we now have the exchange and clearing house 482 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: licenses to be able to offer these products. And our 483 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: number one priority right now is working with the CFTC 484 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: on approval to be able to bring margin derivatives, futures 485 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: and options on crypto to start, although that's not the 486 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: only place that that you know, we can go in 487 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: terms of offering derivatives to US customers directly in a 488 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: disintermediated model. So that's by far our biggest opportunity for 489 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: growth I think in the company. Yeah, I completely agree 490 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: with that, and I think that's that's that's the single 491 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: biggest thing that we're looking at here. You know, what 492 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: else are we looking at? Um? I think you know, 493 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: we're looking at growing out our consumer platform. I think 494 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: you know, we see extremely high upside on that front, 495 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,959 Speaker 1: and well, we haven't necessarily you know, I don't think 496 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: that that is anything close to ACE or finished product UM, 497 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: but I think it's an extremely exciting one and and 498 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: I think we have a lot to grow on that 499 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: front too. So I think that that's probably the second 500 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: thing that we're thinking the most about right now. But 501 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: you both skipped the most important question, which is when 502 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 1: you guys are going to go public Crickets Crickets filled 503 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: out at Crickets. It's something we're we're thinking about. We 504 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: don't know whether or not we will, and it's still run. 505 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: We we might we want to be ready to do 506 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: it because we think that there is certainly upside and 507 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: doing still. We all also it's obviously it's a big production. 508 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: We're fortunate between a position where we don't have to 509 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,959 Speaker 1: you know, where we're we're profitable as it is, and 510 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: we're able to raising UM private markets as well. So, 511 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: you know, I think the honest answer there is, you know, 512 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: we're thinking about it and will we'll see. But I 513 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: don't know that answer, so I think I can't give 514 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: you an answer to it. We're here. We're here for 515 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: you when you're ready to answer that one. Sam, Well, 516 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: we're willing to take well to have you back to 517 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: break that news. UM. But I want to talk about obviously, 518 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: the big buzzword this year was decentralized finance defy the 519 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: centralized autonomous organizations. How does an exchange like f t 520 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: X fit into that universe? Is it more of a 521 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: risk or more of an opportunity? A little of both? 522 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: You know, how how do you how do you guys 523 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: fit into that whole world? I mean, I think it's 524 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: an opportunity. I think that like we're excited to facilitate UM. 525 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: You know, the cryptocurrency ecosystem in general, and I think 526 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: that you know, what I see in a meeting cases 527 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: is sort of a world where you know, you have 528 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: a bunch of of centralized platforms with certain decentralized networks 529 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: connecting them, and so it's not sort of necessarily in 530 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: either or from that perspective, you know, we're pretty excited 531 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: to continue working with a lot of the platforms in 532 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: the space. On that, I think that there's always gonna 533 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: be things that make more sense on one side or 534 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: on the other. If you look at the growth of 535 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: Salona as a network, f t X has played a 536 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: huge role there um not least the fact that f 537 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: TEX has been the main on ramp into this alan 538 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: a DeFi ecosystem. If you want to participate in a 539 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 1: application that is using the Salona protocol, well probably your 540 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: first step is to open an account with fd xtraft 541 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: xt rest and buy some soul and use that to 542 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,959 Speaker 1: transfer it to let's say an external wallet where you're 543 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: going to use it to participate in some application or 544 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,239 Speaker 1: protocol or a staking pool or whatever it is if 545 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: you want to do. And so we've we've always grown 546 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: alongside them, and as Sam said, I think that the 547 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: centralized exchanges are going to be the licensed gate keepers. 548 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: You know, at some point regulation is going to come 549 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: to defy as well, and it's going to be well, 550 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: this thing can exist. We need to make sure that 551 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: the right people are interacting with those platforms. Well, which 552 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: platforms are currently set up to be able to k 553 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: y C millions of users, to make sure that they 554 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: are the right people to interact with them, well, de 555 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: centralized exchanges like fd X, and we're also the Fiat 556 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: on ramps and off ramps. If at the end of 557 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: the day, you've made some profit on some protocol and 558 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: you want to take that and actually converted to Fiat 559 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: car and see, well the only real way to do 560 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: that is through the centralized exchanges. So again, we're going 561 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: to be these license gatekeepers that drop alongside the protocols. 562 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: And but maybe you can answer this question as well. 563 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: But I've been doing some reporting on DOWS and somebody 564 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: I spoke with said to me, you know, not everything 565 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: needs to be token ized, which I thought was a 566 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: really good point. Where we're seeing that just more and 567 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: more and more. So I'm wondering what you you might 568 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: make up a statement like that. Yeah, I agree, I 569 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: think that the use of blockchain in general, not just tokenization, 570 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: needs to be the correct fit for the purpose. You know, what, 571 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: what is blockchain really? It's sort of a slow, kind 572 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: of bad database, but with some really really great features 573 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: to it. And if you're only using it as a database, 574 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: or you're only using a token as to get around 575 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: the fact that it's something less exciting than it is, 576 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: then it's not really that interesting. I think that even 577 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: the word dow, I think some a lot of people 578 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: are using the doubt term just to meet a group 579 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: of people as opposed to a truly decentralized entity with 580 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: a real like a governance token and some kind of 581 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: blockchain based voting system. So it's a lot of buzzers 582 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: are being thrown around a lot. But I think the 583 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: concept of tokenization is really powerful. I think the idea 584 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: in the future of tokenizing stocks in the US, for example, 585 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: the way that Sam has been able to do on 586 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: FTX International is really powerful and interesting. And there's a 587 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: lot of great benefits of tokenization, like full of transparency 588 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,959 Speaker 1: on the blockchain, instant settlements twenty four seven availability, and 589 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: these are the kinds of things that we should take 590 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:52,239 Speaker 1: away from tokenization. Alright, guys, I can't let you go 591 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: without getting into some good old fashioned fud appear uncertainty 592 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: and doubt one of my favorite pieces of FUND I 593 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: gotta say. And as Sam, I know you mentioned you 594 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the sort of the 595 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,239 Speaker 1: potential of quantum computing, uh as computing just gets more 596 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: and more powerful going forward. But one really interesting piece 597 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: of FUND that landed in my inbox was someone making 598 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: the case that dum computing is actually a risk to 599 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: crypto if computers get so powerful that they're able to 600 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: sort of break the cryptography. Is that Is that a 601 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: valid concern to anyone? Or you know, am I just 602 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: reading the wrong emails here? I guess you say briefly, like, 603 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: I think some cryptographical protocols are in theory potentially vulnerable 604 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: to it, although it depends on like in practice is 605 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: very different from in theory. But it could also help 606 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: read new ones that might be even more powerful. So 607 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: I think it's like certainly something to pay attention to, 608 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: although I don't think it's like kill the broader industry 609 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: or anything like that. I mean, not to introduce more 610 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: funds the equation here, but if we were fans of fun. 611 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: Blockchain technology is built off of commonly known and commonly 612 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: use cryptographic algorithms, in particular the ones that power all 613 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: encryption of messages that are sent between different parties. So 614 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: I think this, if you're going to be concerned about 615 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: encryption breaking as there was alt of quantum computing, I 616 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: think before you worry about bitcoin and not really working anymore, 617 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: we need to worry worry about governments not being able 618 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: to send messages to each other in private. And that's 619 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: like a lot, a lot bigger of a concern than oh, no, 620 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: Bitcoin is not working as well anymore. That's a great point. 621 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: So I I do agree that if we're gonna start 622 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: to approach that level of technology and application for quantum computing, 623 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: I think way before that we just need to work 624 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: in general and alternatives the current modern encryption methods. Yeah, 625 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: that's that is some high quality foot there. I gotta say, 626 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: goll donor I have I have a sort of related 627 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: question and it's actually a market related question, and I 628 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: didn't want to let you guys go without us bringing 629 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: it up. And I'm actually shocked it hasn't come up yet. 630 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: Which was last weekend. Scrypto crash, which every single person 631 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: I talked to this week, equity, equity market strategists, everybody 632 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: just kept bringing up crypto and the crash that we saw. 633 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: So Sam, I'm hoping you can tell me. You know, 634 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: something that comes up a lot is it's leverage that 635 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: was sort of exacerbating what was happening last weekend. So 636 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: how levered really is this market? And then I was 637 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: hearing rumors that it was one whale out there who 638 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: was doing a lot of the selling last weekend. So 639 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: can you who who's the whale? And can you confirm 640 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: that that's true? Yeah, So, I mean I don't I 641 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: don't know who he's doing it. Um, I can say 642 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: that I either's like not as much leverage as there 643 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: once was in crypto. I think that, you know, Circuit 644 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, I think it was fairly leverage over the 645 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: last year. Um, we've seen a lot more capital under 646 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: this space, which is Sarah philled out a liquidity base, 647 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: and you know, I f the extents of relatively low 648 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: leverage as far as these things go. But you know, 649 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: I think our average leverage is like to x or 650 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: something like that, So not zero but not extremely high either. Yeah, 651 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: I gotta say if I if I know how to 652 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: write an algorithm, I'd write one that buys bitcoin like 653 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: every Saturday morning around eight eight am and sells it 654 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 1: on Friday afternoons. Thrown it out there to anyone out 655 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: there who who's listening. You know you could, you could 656 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: back test that pretty quickly. Actually, I don't know. I 657 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: also want a meme coin named after Golden doodles. You know, 658 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: I don't have a Sheba. You know I want a 659 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: Golden Doodle coin. I think that one would do well. 660 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: But we're missing cat points. Do Yeah, I have a 661 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: Persian kittie. I'd love a coin for her. You need. 662 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: There's no cat coins. I don't know what they say. 663 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: Be the change you want to see in the world. 664 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: Tiden up your straight jackets. It's time for the craziest 665 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: things we saw in markets this week? Well, Donny, you 666 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: kick us off. What's the craziest thing you saw this 667 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: week in markets? Well, I've I've touched on like weird 668 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 1: food products that companies are sort of trying to put 669 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 1: out there to attract attention or something. In the past. 670 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: I think you and I once talked about the Cheetos 671 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: flavored Mountain Dew I think it was, which I have 672 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: yet to try. But this week I saw that there's 673 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: now an Oreo flavored or Oreo adjacent wine brand that's 674 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: coming out. So there's a bottle of red wine and 675 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: there's actual pictures of Oreos on it, and I guess 676 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't have any Oreo cookies crushed inside it, but 677 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: it's supposed to have like a chocolate flavor, and it just, honestly, 678 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of it. This is 679 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: what happens when you legalize weed. I think this is 680 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: the products that you get as a result. That's my 681 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: take on things. I don't know how that has to 682 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: do with markets PULD, but but I'll allow it. It's 683 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: because it's these companies trying to so is it like 684 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: for Mountain Dew, it's PepsiCo. Okay, okay, fair enough. Yeah, 685 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: they're trying to monetize on these like weird flavors. I think. 686 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: I don't know it's it's weird to me. It's weird 687 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: to me, so it counts. I'll give you our loyal listener, 688 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: Twiggy Sunday it in with a pretty good one too. 689 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: This is not at all markets related but it's so 690 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: crazy that it's worth bringing up. In Saudi Arabia, they 691 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: every year hold a beauty contest for camels. Let me 692 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: repeat that, Donna, a beauty contest for camels and there's 693 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: a big scandal and it's this is high stakes. There's 694 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: like sixty six million dollars in prizes. Big scandal this year. Uh, 695 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: forty camels were disqualified because they had been injected with 696 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: botox and had other uh cosmetic procedures performed on then. 697 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 1: So you you must be making this. That's courtesy of 698 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: CBS News via Twiggy Sunday True Story. Oh my gosh, 699 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: who wins the sixty six million dollars? The camels? Miss Camel? 700 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: I guess you know Miss Camel Universe, the you know, 701 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: the most beautiful camel. Uh? So I again not I 702 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: don't know if you can figure out the markets angle, 703 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: but it's money, allow it. I'll allow it. Uh. That's 704 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: really good because it's it's heavy on crazy, light on markets. 705 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: How about you, guys, you got anything for us for 706 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: the craziest things you've seen over at f t X 707 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: this week. Well, I don't think I'm gonna be able 708 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: to beat either of those two things, and I also 709 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:15,280 Speaker 1: need to call Peter right after the podcast. Um what 710 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 1: what's crazy? I saw this week was Sushi swap. Um. 711 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys been following the drama 712 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: on Twitter, but you know there's there's all this drama 713 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: around the chief technology officer, one of the main developers 714 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: of Sushi that made a very big public display of 715 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: his unhappiness with working for Sushi and then decided to leave. 716 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,240 Speaker 1: And you know, the token is probably suffering as a result. 717 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: And I think it goes to show how much, you know, 718 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 1: companies and projects really depend on the software developers. And 719 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: think about fts. We have only, you know, a small 720 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: handful of software developers, you know, something like twelve compared 721 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: to maybe the thousands that might exist at other companies, 722 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, and we are awesome because we can go 723 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: super nimble and quick with a very numerous developers at 724 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: the same time. To think about a company, so it 725 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: depended on one such that they can get out there. 726 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm really tanking the whole project. It's pretty terrifying in 727 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. Yeah, all right, I want to 728 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 1: give you mine now. I don't know if you have one, Sam, 729 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: but I'll let you think about it, I'll give you mine. 730 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: Mine actually came from the hearing you were at our 731 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: requiter here Bloombergy Crystal Kim wrote a story about a 732 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: few crazy things about there. I'm not not gonna get 733 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,399 Speaker 1: into the big baseball analogy, which I uh I thought 734 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: was a good one. But Democratic Rep. Brad Sherman of 735 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: California became an inspiration for cryptocurrency token creators after he 736 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: disparaged the coin eat coin world of digital assets. And 737 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: I think he was he was telling a story. I 738 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 1: think it was this children's book. There was an old 739 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: woman who swallowed a fly. I don't know why she 740 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 1: swallowed a fly, and then you know she swallowed it. 741 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: I think it was a frog to eat the fly, 742 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: and then a bigger animal to to eat eat the frog. 743 00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: And his point was he went on to say that 744 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 1: bitcoin could be unseated by ether, which could be replaced 745 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: by doze totally be replaced by hamster coin, and then 746 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 1: cobra coin, and then would mongoose coin commedya cobra coin. 747 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: Um So, needless to say, the people watching the show 748 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: instantly went out and created, uh, mongoose coin and goose coin. 749 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: There's a mong coin, all sorts of cryptocurrencies, uh inspired 750 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: by this uh the series yesterday. So Brett, I don't 751 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,280 Speaker 1: know if you're gonna you guys will be trade mongoose 752 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: coin soon. But who knows? That was it was quite 753 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: a line of questioning. I respect the skepticism though, I think, 754 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: you know it, thinking about what is the utility of 755 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: some of the crypto assets is a reasonable thing to do, 756 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: and so I think it's it's an important for us 757 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: to answer and think about as an industry. But but yeah, 758 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: it wasn't without its colorful moments that have found its 759 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,479 Speaker 1: way unto the crypto Twitter of course. Yeah, absolutely where 760 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: they where they truly belong. Well, I think all those 761 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: convoluted questions help you guys prepare for my my ridiculous questions. 762 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: So it's good good training for that. And with that, Sam, 763 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, Brett, Brett had a pretty good crazy thing. 764 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: I don't know if he can stop him, Yeah, you know, 765 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: I mean, but honestly, it's the craziest thing I think 766 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: for me was just how not crazy the hearing was. 767 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: I think it was just massively above my expectations in 768 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: terms of being you know, in terms of being I 769 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: think like constructive and I think sometimes something in this 770 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 1: environment not crazy is the new crazy. Yeah, I agree. 771 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: I was saying before you got on, you know you guys, Uh, 772 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: those hearings can get pretty ugly fast, and I think 773 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: the the sort of mutual respect and dialogue was pretty interesting. Um, 774 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: it's kind of what you want out of out of 775 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: that type of hearing, um, rather than people just trying 776 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,879 Speaker 1: to get a good SoundBite or you know, viral video clip, 777 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: which is sometimes would it seems like going on so 778 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: truly crazy that the hearing didn't go off the rails? 779 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: I agree with that guy's I think that might be 780 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: all the time we have all. Donna, what do you 781 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: think should we let these guys off the hook? Yeah? 782 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: I think we should let them go. But they gave 783 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: us so much of their their time, So thank you 784 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: both so much. Thank you guys. Yeah, thank you. What 785 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: goes up, We'll be back next week. Until then, you 786 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app 787 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. We'd love it if 788 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: you took the time to rate and review the show 789 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts so more listeners can find us, and 790 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter, follow me at Reaganonymous. 791 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: The Dota Hirich is that theill Dotta Hirich. You can 792 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: also follow Bloomberg Podcasts at podcast and Thank you to 793 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: Charlie Pelletta. Bloomberg Radio What Goes Up is produced by 794 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: Laura Carlson. The head of Bloomberg Podcast is Francesco Levy. 795 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you next time.