1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: On this episode of the news World. In his raw 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: coming of age memoir, Rob Henderson describes how he was 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: born to a drug addicted mother and a father he 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: never met. He shuttled between seven different foster homes in 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. When he was adopted into a loving family, 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: he hoped that life would finally be stable and safe. Divorce, tragedy, poverty, 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: and violence marked his adolescent and teen years, and he 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: joined the US Air Force at the age of seventeen 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: as soon as he completed high school. He then went 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: on to get his undergraduate education from Yale and a 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: PhD from Cambridge. He argues that stability at home is 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: more important than external accomplishments, and illustrates the ways the 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: most privileged among this benefit from a set of social 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: standards that actively harm the most vulnerable. Here to discuss 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: his new book, Troubled, a memoir of foster care, family 16 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 1: and social class I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, 17 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: Rob Henderson. Rob, welcome, and thank you for joining me 18 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: on Newts Group. 19 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: Thank you, speaker. It's great to be here. 20 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: You know. It's a remarkable story in the sense that 21 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: we're going to explore to have gone through what you 22 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: did as a child and then end up at Yale 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: and Cambridge is truly a remarkable transition. Can we start, though, 24 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: by having you describe your earliest memories. As I understand it, 25 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: you entered the foster care system in Los Angeles at 26 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: the age of three. 27 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: That's correct. I was born in Los Angeles. As you mentioned, 28 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 3: my mother was heavily addicted to drugs. I had never 29 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 3: known my father, and so my mother and I initially 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: we were homeless for a time. Shortly after I was born. 31 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 3: We lived in a car. We finally settled into this 32 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 3: slum apartment in Westlake, this rundown part of Los Angeles, 33 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 3: and my mother was neglectful. 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: She would indulge in her drug habit. 35 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 3: Eventually some neighbors overheard a small child in this apartment 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 3: screaming for help. 37 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: It was me. 38 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: She would tie me to a chair with a bathrobe 39 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 3: belt while she would get high. I have this thick 40 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: file of documents from the social workers who were responsible. 41 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: For my case. 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 3: My mother would have visitors coming in and out of 43 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 3: the apartment at all hours of the day and night. 44 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 3: She was unable to care for me. She was not 45 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 3: in the right condition, and so I was placed into 46 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 3: foster care at the age of three and spent the 47 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: next five years or so in seven different foster homes 48 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: all around Los Angeles, and I describe these experiences. 49 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: When you live in seven different foster home Were they 50 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: about the same length at time or were some really 51 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: short some really long? 52 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: So I was really young. 53 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 3: I entered the system when I was three and left 54 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 3: just before my eighth birthday, and so the recollections are fuzzy. 55 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: I mean, it's interesting how time can play tricks on 56 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: your memory, because now I mentioned that document, the files 57 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: that I have that actually have the dates of how 58 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 3: long I. 59 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: Was in each specific home. And it's funny. 60 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 3: I used to think that I only lived in four 61 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 3: different homes in total. That was my memory, and I 62 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: write about those experiences in the book. 63 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: But it actually turns out I lived. 64 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 3: In seven homes, and some of those placements were essentially 65 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: never encoded in my memory, probably because they were too 66 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: stressful or upsetting. Some of them I was only in 67 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 3: for about three weeks, less than a month. Some of 68 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: these placements. There was one home, the final home I 69 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 3: stayed in, I was there for nearly a year. That's 70 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 3: the home that I have the strongest and most vivid memories, 71 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: and I describe that length in the book, But it varies. 72 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 3: It depends on the foster parents, it depends on the placements, 73 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: it depends on how overburdened the system happens to be 74 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 3: at any given moment. And so some of these homes 75 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: I lived in, they had upwards of eight to ten 76 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 3: kids living in them. There was one home I lived 77 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 3: in where there were four kids to a room. It 78 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: was two bunk beds, so two kids in each the 79 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 3: top bunk and then two kids on the bottom bunks, 80 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 3: and it was. 81 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: Just a lot of sort of filth and squalor. 82 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 3: And of course, even if you have two parents with 83 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 3: the best of intentions, when you have ten kids living 84 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 3: in a home and you have no idea how long 85 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 3: each one of those kids are going to remain with you, 86 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 3: there's only so much attention you can give to any 87 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 3: individual child. 88 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: And so there was just a lot of neglect. A 89 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 2: lot of us would go unnoticed in the home. 90 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: And there was one home I lived in where I 91 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: was the only foster kid, and I did get a 92 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 3: bit more attention, but this foster mother had her own agenda, 93 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 3: and I describe in the book how she would typically 94 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: take one young foster boy at any given time and 95 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 3: essentially use this child as a kind of person that 96 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 3: could be a laborer around the house. I would break 97 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: the leaves and clean the gutters. A period where she 98 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 3: had a pet bird, this giant parrot that I had 99 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 3: to feed on a daily basis. And I remember as 100 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: I was about to exit this home right before I 101 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: was adopted, I overheard her adult daughter on the phone 102 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 3: speaking with someone saying, Oh, yeah, she's about to have 103 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 3: another young boy show up. You know, Yeah, this kid, 104 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 3: Robert's about to leave. We got another boy on the way, 105 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 3: And that was her kind of agenda. 106 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: It's fascinating to me you say that the one word 107 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: that best described your personal feeling during this early childhood 108 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: period of foster care is the word dread. I mean, 109 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: dread's a really strong word. What did you mean by that? 110 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: And then what different ways did you feel dread? 111 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 3: Yes, Well, early on, the dread came because I knew 112 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: that any placement that I was in in the foster 113 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: system was not permanent, and so there was this feeling 114 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 3: of dread of oh, is this the day that I'm 115 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 3: going to be taken to another home. 116 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: Is this the day that I have to start class 117 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 2: at a new school. 118 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 3: Is this the day that my foster brother, who I've 119 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 3: grown attached to and who I like, is going to 120 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: be taken from me and play somewhere else. That's something 121 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 3: that a lot of people don't think about with the 122 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: foster system, that yes, there's a lot of instability for 123 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 3: you as an individual as a kid in these homes, 124 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 3: but there's also this other added instability where you know, naturally, 125 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 3: if you place a bunch of children together, some of 126 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 3: them are going to become friends. But then you as 127 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 3: an individual will never know if one of your foster 128 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 3: siblings is going to be taken from you and maybe 129 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: returned to their family of origin or maybe placed into 130 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: a different foster home. 131 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: And so that was another source of dread for me. 132 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: And you know, I'd see. 133 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 3: An unfamiliar car parked outside and I would think, oh, 134 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 3: this is you know, one of those social workers is 135 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,119 Speaker 3: going to take my sibling, or you know, maybe someone's 136 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 3: coming to take me away. Or it was just a 137 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: lot of this feeling of enduring anxiety. And initially the 138 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 3: feeling would be very sharp and acute, but then gradually 139 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 3: it became blunted and pervasive, ever present, that I would 140 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 3: always feel this underlying uneasiness no. 141 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: Matter where I was, and that burns. 142 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: A lot of physiological and inner resources as a young 143 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: child to feel that constantly. 144 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: Even as an adult. 145 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, a lot of adults have that 146 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: sort of generalized anxiety, that feeling of nervousness in daily situations, 147 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: But as a kid, it's that much more potent, and 148 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 3: it was difficult for me to manage those feelings. And 149 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 3: I describe in the book how I would act out 150 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: and find ways to manage that affect those feelings by 151 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 3: getting into mischief, thrill seeking, adrenaline seeking fighting, ways to 152 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 3: get outside of myself and seek misadventures with my friends, 153 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: and find ways to distract myself from the turmoil that 154 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: I was mired in. 155 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that an orphanage system would be more 156 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: stable than the foster cares? 157 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: Well, So, I've read a little bit about the history 158 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 3: of foster care and orphanages and so forth, and foster homes. 159 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: My understanding is that they initially arose in reaction to 160 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 3: the orphanage system, that they were supposed to be a 161 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 3: superior way to care for children. I mean orphanages. Today 162 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 3: there are sort of modern group homes full of squalor. 163 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: There are very few people who monitor what's going on 164 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 3: with the children in adolescents of these kinds of homes, 165 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 3: and at least with foster homes, the idea being that 166 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 3: you have a foster mother and a foster father and 167 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 3: you have something resembling a home and a family unit, 168 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 3: whereas orphanages are a completely different sort of. 169 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 2: Category of child rearing. 170 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 3: And my understanding is at least for measurable outcomes things 171 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: like intelligence, educational aptitude, those kinds of things that kids 172 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 3: who go through the foster system don't have quite as 173 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 3: severe detrimental outcomes as kids from orphanages. 174 00:08:58,520 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: So I would have to. 175 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 3: Say, at least with that, you know, with respect to 176 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: those kinds of measurable outcomes, foster homes are probably better. 177 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 3: But I do highlight in the book that they are 178 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 3: far from optimal, and that I mean, the ideal situation 179 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 3: for any child is to be with two parents in 180 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 3: a stable home from birth to age eighteen till adulthood 181 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 3: and not live the kind of life where you're constantly 182 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: changing homes all the time. That's something else that I 183 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 3: highlight in the book as well is that the foster 184 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: system is imperfect. One possible way to improve it would 185 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 3: be to extend placements and not move the child around 186 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: every several months or every several weeks, such that the 187 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 3: child would feel such extreme dread the way that I did. 188 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: When you dealt with the various foster parents who dealt 189 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: with how would you characterize them as a. 190 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: Group, Well, it's hard to characterize as a group. Every 191 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 3: family was a little different. Broadly, there seemed to be 192 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 3: maybe two or three different categories. I mean, I would 193 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 3: say most foster parents they do the best they can. 194 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 3: They start out with the best of intentions. But foster 195 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 3: parents are humans like anyone else. And so when you 196 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 3: initially start caring for a child and you take on 197 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 3: this role, you do want to invest in each child 198 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 3: and care for them the best you can. But then 199 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 3: you know you can become jaded and a bit calloused 200 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 3: because you know this kid is not going to stay 201 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: with you for very long, and so there's only so 202 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 3: much you're willing to invest, in part because you want 203 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 3: to protect yourself. If you become very attached to a 204 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 3: small child and you fully emotionally commit to that child, 205 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 3: you know, and they're taken from. 206 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: You a month later or six months later. 207 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 3: You know, eventually, after enough of those experiences, you yourself 208 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 3: are going to become a bit more distant in order 209 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 3: to prevent that feeling of separation and loss. 210 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: But I think most parents are the best they can. 211 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 3: There are other parents, of course, who have more kind 212 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 3: of sinister agendas where they would like to. 213 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 2: Just profit off of each child. 214 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 3: So each child, at least in California where I grew up, 215 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 3: each child comes with a certain stipend. 216 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: The parents receive a certain amount of money. 217 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 3: And so if you can supply care for ten children 218 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 3: and you receive a certain amount of money for each 219 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 3: of those two, you can, and if you don't channel 220 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: those resources properly to those children, you can make a profit. 221 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 3: You know, one of the homes I lived in, you know, 222 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: all of my clothes were hand me downs from older 223 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:19,479 Speaker 3: foster siblings. 224 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: Never had any toys. 225 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: It was a very kind of austere environment, and this 226 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: foster family just made sure that it could pocket as 227 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 3: much of the profits as they could. So those families 228 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 3: do exist, but I would say sort of buy and large. 229 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 3: They do the best they can, but the system itself 230 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: is imperfect. 231 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: So how old were you when you left the foster 232 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: care system and finally got adopted. 233 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: I was seven, It was just before my eighth birthday. 234 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 3: And this was when I was living in that home. 235 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 3: In the book, I described my experiences with my foster 236 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 3: mother there, Missus Martinez, in Los Angeles. It was a 237 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 3: unique experience for me because I remember Missus Martinez. She 238 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 3: was a very kind of cold woman. She and I 239 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 3: would never do things together. She'd never read to me, 240 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 3: we wouldn't watch television together, anything like that. But one 241 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: day she pulled out this video cassette and said, hey, 242 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to show you something. And she showed me 243 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 3: this videotape of this family and I asked her, well, 244 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: who is this and she said, this is the Henderson 245 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 3: family and they want to adopt you, and so on 246 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: and so forth. And this was the first time I'd 247 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 3: ever seen a video of a family before I went 248 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 3: to live with them. She explained to me that this 249 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: is going to be your mother and father. I met 250 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 3: with them, and remember I called the woman who became 251 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 3: my adoptive mother. I called her Missus Henderson, and she said, oh, honey, 252 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 3: if you want you can just call me mom. And 253 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 3: that was kind of when I knew that this was 254 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 3: a different kind of family and that, you know, I 255 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 3: was truly sort of exiting the foster system. 256 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: You're being adopted, you're moving into a family. But then, 257 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: as I understand it, after about a year, that breaks up. 258 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 2: That's right. 259 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 3: So from La my adoptive family, it was a mother, father, 260 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: and their biological daughter who became my adoptive sister, and 261 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 3: we settled into this working class, kind of blue collar 262 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 3: town in northern California called Red Bluff, really run down area. 263 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 3: It was located in one of the poorest counties in 264 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: the state, and my adoptive father was a truck driver, 265 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: my adoptive mother was an assistant social worker, very kind 266 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 3: of working class, lower middle class, and the town was 267 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 3: just a lot of single parents, divorced parents, children being 268 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 3: raised by grandmothers or aunts or people other than their 269 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 3: mother and father because families were just breaking down. 270 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 2: And we had a temporarily intact family. 271 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: But my adoptive parents divorced, and as a consequence, my 272 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 3: adoptive father he was very angry at my adoptive mother 273 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 3: for leaving him, and he retaliated by severing ties with me. 274 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 3: He stopped communicating with me as a way to get 275 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 3: back at her, And this was really difficult for me. 276 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 3: After never knowing my birth father living in all of 277 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: the foster homes, and then losing contact with this man 278 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 3: who I thought would be my father, this was just 279 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 3: a really upsetting experience. My adoptive mother and I we 280 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 3: settled into this gloomy duplex in town, and for a 281 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 3: while she raised me as a single mom, and by 282 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 3: this point she was working full time and there just 283 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: wasn't a lot of time for her to sort of 284 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: monitor what I was up to. I was nine years 285 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 3: old by this point, and I started to find other 286 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 3: kids in the neighborhood, also from similarly broken families, and 287 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 3: had a bunch of nine ten year old boys going 288 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 3: around smoking cigarettes and picking fights and vandalizing buildings and 289 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 3: doing the kinds of things that mischievous little boys do 290 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: when there's not a lot of oversight and there's no 291 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 3: father figure at home. 292 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: You go through that process. But apparently you did well 293 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: enough in high school despite all this that you make 294 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: the decision to join the Air Force at seventeen years 295 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: of age. How did that happen? 296 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: Why? 297 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: Did you decide that you rode out was through the 298 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: air Force? 299 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I didn't know for sure it was the 300 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 3: right decision, but I knew that the path I was 301 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 3: on was definitely the wrong one, you know. I describe 302 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 3: in Troubled how my academic performance and focus would wax 303 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 3: and wane depending on how stable my home life was. 304 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 3: So in the foster homes, my grades were poor. I 305 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 3: was a very unfocused student. After I was adopted and 306 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 3: thinks stabilized, I became better and my grades improved. And 307 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 3: then after the divorce, my grades dropped again. And there 308 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: were a lot of reversals in my life that I 309 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 3: described in this book. And this kind of instability and 310 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 3: unpredictability is characteristic now of a lot of neighborhoods in 311 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 3: the US, a lot of families in the US. And 312 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 3: I described some of the situations of my friends in 313 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 3: the book as well. And so by the time I 314 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 3: graduated high school, there were so many ups and downs. 315 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 2: I barely graduated. 316 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 3: I had a two point two GPA C minus average, 317 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 3: barely passed my classes. My high school transcript wouldn't have 318 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 3: impressed any colleges, that's for sure. And so I knew 319 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: the military was a strong an appealing possibility for me. 320 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 3: And it's interesting the way that happened was I spoke 321 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 3: with one of my high school teachers. It was a 322 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 3: male teacher actually, and this is one reason why it 323 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 3: may be good to get more men involved in education professions. 324 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 3: So male teacher who took an interest in me. He 325 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 3: noticed that I was a smart kid. I was unfocused. 326 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: I wouldn't do my homework, but he and I would 327 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 3: talk after class. We just kind of talk about sports 328 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: or you know, about whatever was on our minds. And 329 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 3: he would ask me, you know, what are your plans 330 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 3: after you graduate? And I told him I didn't know. 331 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 3: He showed me a picture on his computer of himself 332 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 3: in an Air Force uniform and said, hey, you know, 333 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 3: this is what I did before I started teaching. Maybe 334 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 3: an option for you. And I thought, hey, that looks 335 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 3: pretty cool. And then I lived with my friend and 336 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 3: his father my senior year of high school. I actually 337 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 3: moved out of home when I was sixteen, moved in 338 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 3: with them, and my friend's father was also in the 339 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: Air Force. So it was just a coincidence that it 340 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 3: happened to be that branch and between those conversations, it 341 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 3: seemed like the way to go was the Air Force. 342 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: So once you signed up and went to basic, how 343 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: did being in the Air Force change your life and 344 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: change your attitudes? 345 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 2: Well, I joined when I was really young. I was 346 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: still maturing. 347 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 3: I mentioned I was seventeen, I think, and my adoptive 348 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 3: mother actually had to sign a permission slip essentially for 349 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 3: me to go because I was still legally a child, 350 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 3: and I convinced her to let me go even though 351 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 3: I was still underage and at that age my habits 352 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 3: hadn't fully cemented, my outlook hadn't fully developed, and so 353 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 3: being in the military. I was in for eight years 354 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 3: from seventeen to twenty five. I signed up for four years, 355 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 3: re enlisted for four more, and I needed all eight 356 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 3: of those years to get my head on straight after 357 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 3: living in the homes and all of the instability and 358 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 3: squalor that I was in the structure of the military 359 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 3: was extremely helpful. It taught me discipline, camaraderie, mentorship, being 360 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 3: around especially older male figures who had my best interest 361 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 3: in mind and who I knew had my best interest 362 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: in mind. And it wasn't just you know, short term 363 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 3: fleeting interaction. 364 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: So suddenly you have a stability where it'd had instability. 365 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 2: That's correct. 366 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was such a strong contrast from the way 367 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 3: that I grew up. I mean, it's interesting, right, I 368 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 3: think a lot of people they think the military is 369 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 3: unstable because the purpose is defense and combat operations and 370 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 3: all those kinds of things, and it's a very high 371 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 3: ops tempo. Especially when I was in from twenty seven 372 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 3: to twenty fifteen, we were still fighting two wars and 373 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 3: there was a lot going on then. 374 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 2: And yet the military itself. 375 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 3: Has created this apparatus, this structure of predictability each unit. 376 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 3: Everything is streamlined and so you know who to talk to, 377 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 3: who to communicate with. Everything is relatively seamless. And that 378 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 3: was really helpful for me. And so by the time 379 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 3: I was in my early mid twenties, I felt that 380 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 3: I was mature enough. You know, the military had equipped 381 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 3: me with the ability to be a sort of self 382 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 3: sufficient adult the way that I wasn't when I was seventeen. 383 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated though, because you indicate that the Sopranos had 384 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: a big impact. 385 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: And you know, to explain that, Yeah, well, so I watched. 386 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 3: A lot of TV when I was a kid and 387 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 3: grew up in the late nineties early two thousands, and 388 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 3: of course The Sopranos, that's when it was on the air. 389 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,239 Speaker 3: I didn't really get to see it until later as 390 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 3: an adult, downloaded on my computer and watched episodes when 391 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 3: I was deployed, you know, whenever I was off duty 392 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 3: or had some spare time. I'd watched an episode here 393 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 3: and there and realized that even for this crime family, 394 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 3: Tony Soprano and his wife Carmela, they were involved in 395 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 3: organized crime, but they wanted their kids to succeed. They 396 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 3: wanted their kids to reach the American dream, and so 397 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 3: they did everything they could to set their daughter, Meadow Soprano, 398 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 3: up for success. There's a scene where Carmelo Soprano, you know, 399 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 3: not so subtly threatens a neighbor in order to get 400 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 3: a letter of recommendation for Georgetown for her daughter. There's 401 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 3: a scene where Tony cuts a check to Columbia, and 402 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 3: eventually they do secure their daughter's seat at university. You know, 403 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 3: I'm watching this and I'm thinking, like you know, this 404 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 3: is a prime family. They're making money, but there was 405 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 3: something else going on here where college was as an 406 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 3: essential ingredient to achieve success, to reach middle class or above. 407 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 3: And you know, I'm sitting there, barely graduated high school, 408 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: in the middle of a military enlistment, and I'm thinking, 409 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 3: maybe college is the way to go. And It's funny 410 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: how television can put these ideas in your mind, and 411 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 3: in this sense in a positive way. 412 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: Right, it planted the idea that college was something that 413 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 2: was important. 414 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: You obviously must be very bright because given all the 415 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: background you've described, when you decide to go to college, 416 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: you end up at Yale. I mean, how does that happen? 417 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 3: Well, sometimes I still asked myself that it was a 418 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 3: roundabout and lengthy path to get there. About a year 419 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 3: out from my enlistment, I attended this program called the 420 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 3: Warrior Scholar Project. It was started by two students at Yale. 421 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 3: One of them was an ROTC and essentially they created 422 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 3: this boot camp for veterans and they called it an 423 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 3: academic food camp, a two week program. It was just 424 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 3: a two week workshop where they did invite veterans from 425 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 3: the branches of the military and come in and you know, 426 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 3: set them up for two weeks and teach them how 427 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 3: to write an essay, walk them through what the admissions 428 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 3: process is like, kind of equipping them with knowledge that 429 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 3: a lot of continuing generation students know. If you have 430 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 3: one or two parents who graduated from college, a lot 431 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 3: of this is second nature to you. You know what 432 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 3: the common app is, you know how to get a 433 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 3: letter of recommendation, you know what a personal statement is. 434 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 3: But for a lot of guys in the military, a 435 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: lot of people who didn't have parents who went to college, 436 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 3: useful to know. 437 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 2: How the whole process works. 438 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 3: And so after those two weeks, I walked away thinking, Okay, 439 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 3: maybe I have a chance, Maybe I can get into. 440 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 2: A good school. And those two guys who started this. 441 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 3: Program, they were at Yale, and you know, I thought, okay, 442 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 3: maybe you know that's a good school and applied there, 443 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,239 Speaker 3: and I remember it during the interview. Somehow I got 444 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 3: an interview. One reason why was because I took the 445 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 3: SAT and did very well on it. And this is 446 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 3: why I think standardized testing is so important, because my 447 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 3: grades were very unimpressive. I'd taken some night classes at 448 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 3: a community college while I was enlisted, but nothing special. 449 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 2: But I took the SAT and did well, and during the. 450 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 3: Interview process for Yale, you know, I remember the admissions 451 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 3: officer saying, you know, I'm looking at your high school grades, 452 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 3: and this is very unlike what we typically see for 453 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: an applicant for Yale. 454 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 2: So can you walk us through what happened here? 455 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 3: And I explained my very tumultuous life and how it 456 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 3: did suppress I think a lot of my academic potential 457 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 3: that I think was illuminated more accurately in my test score. 458 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 3: And I explained I was a little bit older, a 459 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 3: bit more disciplined, and I had on my shoulders the 460 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 3: way that I didn't when I was a teenager, and 461 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 3: somehow they took a chance on me and let me in, 462 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 3: and for a period of time at Yale it was 463 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 3: a really sort of magical experience. I couldn't believe that 464 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 3: they had sent me that acceptance letter. 465 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: In one of your classes, you learned that eighteen out 466 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: of the twenty students were raised by both of their 467 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: birth parents. Compared to your experience, I mean, how disorienting 468 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: did you find that to be? 469 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 2: It was extremely disorienting. 470 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 3: So I had some sense that Yale was going to 471 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 3: be different than the places that I had known before 472 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 3: in the military and the foster homes, and so on, 473 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 3: it's a one known university. I knew there were going 474 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 3: to be students from more well off backgrounds economically speaking, 475 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 3: but I wasn't prepared for the culture shock with regard 476 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 3: to differences in families in opinions and attitudes and outlooks. 477 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 3: And yeah, I discovered this in class that eighteen out 478 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 3: of the twenty students. 479 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: It was this anonymous poll that a professor. 480 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 3: Administered and put up the anonymized results on this PowerPoint, 481 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: and ninety percent of the students in. 482 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 2: This class were raised by both of their birth parents. 483 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 3: Later on, I looked into the statistics of Ivy League 484 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 3: students and that's roughly what it is. Ninety percent of 485 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 3: students raised by two of their birth parents married intact families. 486 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 3: And then I saw those results and I thought back 487 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 3: to my own experiences in Red Bluff, California, where I 488 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 3: had five close friends in high school. None of the 489 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: six of us were raised by two parents. There was 490 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 3: me raised in foster homes. I had friends raised by 491 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 3: single moms. I had a friend raised by a single dad, 492 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 3: another friend raised by his grandmother because his mom was 493 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 3: on drugs and his dad was in prison. And that 494 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 3: is a very sort of common picture of what working 495 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 3: class and poor areas of the country look like now, 496 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 3: whereas more and more in the sort of upper and 497 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: upper middle class enclaves people who are bound for places 498 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 3: like Yale, families look the same as they've always looked. 499 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 3: I cited a statistic in the book from this excellent resource, 500 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 3: this book called Coming Apart by Charles Murray, where he 501 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 3: documents that in nineteen sixty, ninety five percent of children 502 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 3: in the US were raised by both of their birth parents, 503 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 3: regardless of social class, and by two thousand and five 504 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 3: for the upper class, for people with college educated parents 505 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 3: comfortable white collar occupations and went from ninety five percent 506 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty to eighty five percent by two thousand 507 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 3: and five, so a slight drop, but still the vast 508 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: majority raised by both parents. But for the working class 509 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 3: and blue collar people who didn't go to college and 510 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 3: have more blue collar occupations, it went from ninety five 511 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 3: percent in nineteen sixty to thirty percent by two thousand 512 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 3: and five. And that statistic perfectly mirrors my own experiences 513 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 3: that families looked very different. 514 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: It wasn't just an income issue. 515 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 3: I noticed, you know, people think, oh, you know, you 516 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 3: just got to be rich and you know, get good 517 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 3: grades to go to a place like Yale. But in 518 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 3: those later chapters of the book, I say that it's 519 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 3: not a coincidence that if you're raised by both parents. 520 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: A lot of these kids who go to these kinds 521 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 3: of schools, they have parents who are married, who put 522 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 3: the children's priorities and interests and education first. They're on 523 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 3: the college track, and it takes more than just an 524 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 3: income to ensure that that happens. 525 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: What do you think happened? How did we suddenly go 526 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: off a cliff? 527 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I know there's a popular line, especially 528 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 3: more so on the political left, that this is an 529 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 3: income issue or poverty issue, inequality. But the reason why 530 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 3: I think that statistic that I cited earlier was so 531 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 3: important is because there were poor people in nineteen sixty. 532 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 3: I mean, arguably they were even poorer than the poor. 533 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 2: Now. 534 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty, if you were poor, you might have 535 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 3: to go a few days without food. 536 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 2: But now, if you're poor. 537 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 3: You'll get some assistance, You'll get some government assistance, and 538 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 3: you won't necessarily go hungry for several days. I mean, 539 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,479 Speaker 3: it happens, but it's much more rare now than it 540 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 3: was sixty years ago, and so it's not a matter 541 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 3: just of poverty. 542 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 2: I think there's also a values component here. 543 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 3: There's a cultural element absence of role models, something as 544 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 3: simple as who the people around you are and the 545 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 3: behavior that they exhibit. We can talk about the luxury 546 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 3: beliefs idea that I coined, ideas and opinions that confer 547 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 3: status on the upper class while inflicting costs on the 548 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 3: lower classes. A core feature of a luxury belief is 549 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 3: that the believer is sheltered from the consequences of his 550 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 3: or her belief. 551 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 2: One way this manifests. 552 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 3: Is a lot of upper middle class people, people who 553 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 3: graduate from places like Yale, Ivy League students and so on. 554 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: They will say that families. 555 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 3: Unimportant, or that it's really just an income issue and 556 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 3: so on. But they have gone their whole lives seeing 557 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 3: married parents and people make relationships work, and people in 558 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 3: committed marriages, because that is the norm in upper middle 559 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 3: class neighborhoods. So even if they turn on the television 560 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 3: or open a magazine or watch a music video and 561 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 3: they see people promoting open marriages or polyamory or supporting 562 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 3: divorce or all of these kinds of things that can 563 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 3: undermine families. They themselves have gone their whole lives exposed 564 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 3: to sort of bourgeois conventional marital norms. But now, if 565 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 3: you think about someone like me or someone like my 566 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 3: friends and the way that we grew up, not only 567 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 3: did we not get those role models in our personal lives, 568 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 3: we were raised by single parents, foster parents, divorced parents 569 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 3: all around us. We never really saw what a functional, 570 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 3: long term, committed marriage looks like. And then we turn 571 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: on the television, and then we listen to music and 572 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 3: the pop cultural around us, and there's just no source 573 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 3: of role model around us to show us how to 574 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 3: be in a marriage. And I think that's a huge 575 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 3: part of it too. You know, where social creatures, we 576 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 3: imitate those around us, and naturally, if you grow up 577 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 3: without it, it's going to carry on forward in our 578 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 3: own relationships. And I talk in the book about how 579 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 3: you know, now, the guys I grew up with, you know, 580 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,479 Speaker 3: some of them have children with multiple women and they 581 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 3: don't speak to any of them. 582 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: And that's how they grew up. 583 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 3: They grew up never knowing their fathers, and now they're 584 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 3: raising kids who don't know them, and the cycle can 585 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 3: carry forward, and it's not just an economic issue. 586 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: I mean, doesn't that sort of describe a culture that's disintegrating. 587 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, and it's subsidized to some extent. 588 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, again, like very few people in 589 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 3: these neighborhoods are truly starving to death. None of them 590 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 3: are impoverished and destitute in that kind of sense. But 591 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 3: there is a lot of emotional poverty, a lot of 592 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 3: spiritual poverty, kind of squalor of people making self defeating 593 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 3: decisions and not seeking ways to improve their situations. Yeah, 594 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 3: you can see this kind of atomization, this disintegration, and 595 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 3: more and more, you just see people who are comfortable 596 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 3: isolating themselves from all of it. They're blinded to it 597 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 3: because they are in safe areas, gated communities. 598 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 2: Everyone they've ever known is just like them. 599 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 3: I just had this conversation with the mutual acquaintance of 600 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 3: a friend of mine and he was telling me. He 601 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 3: was like, you know, I read that the national divorce 602 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: rate is forty percent. You know, it used to be 603 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 3: fifty percent. It's actually dropped somewhat to forty percent. And 604 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 3: he was telling me, He's like, you know, I spoke 605 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 3: with five of my friends, and you know, all of 606 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 3: them have college degrees, most of them postgraduate degrees. And 607 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 3: he said, you know, if the national divorce rate is 608 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 3: forty percent, how come none of us are divorced. And 609 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 3: I was explaining to him that there's a huge class 610 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 3: disparity educational disparity here where most of the divorce is 611 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 3: concentrated among people who don't have degrees. Most single parenthood 612 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 3: is concentrated among people who are working class. And so 613 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 3: you see these aggregate snapshot statistics, so forty percent or 614 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 3: forty four percent of children are raised out of wedlock 615 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 3: in the country, and so on and so forth. But 616 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 3: if you look just at people with bachelor's degrees out 617 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 3: of WEDLOFE birth rates are something like nine percent. It's 618 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 3: very rare to meet someone like that. 619 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: You've mentioned at one point one of the most important 620 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: studies of recent time, which is Scott Rasmussen looking at 621 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: the one percent elite people who are from the elite universities, 622 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: got an actual graduate degree, didn't just go to graduate school, 623 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: but got the degree, earned one hundred and fifty thousand, 624 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: and actually live in big cities. And he asserts, based 625 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: on his polling that those folks who run the networks, 626 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: they run the New York Times, they run judge ships, 627 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: they run the bureaucracies, they are radically different from the 628 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: rest of us. I mean, does that fit your experience? 629 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I thought those results from Rasmus and 630 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 3: were spot on. None of it was necessarily surprising, and 631 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 3: yet somehow it was. I mean, just the magnitude of 632 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 3: the difference was shocking. If I recall correctly, something on 633 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 3: the order of eighty percent of this rarefied one percent 634 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 3: of society, eighty percent of this one percent say that 635 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 3: meat and electricity should be strictly rationed to battle climate change. 636 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 3: And that's all well and good for them. I mean, 637 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 3: if those were implementing into policy, they're not going to 638 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 3: be short of protein or electricity. 639 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 2: There were results in. 640 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 3: There about how the majority of the elites say the 641 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 3: government provides too much freedom to US citizens. He also 642 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 3: collected data from a representative sample of ordinary Americans, and 643 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 3: the vast majority of Americans say freedom is a good thing. 644 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 3: We want freedom, it's something that we enjoy. It's our 645 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 3: right as Americans. But the elites say, the masses, the plebeians, 646 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 3: they have too much freedom. And it should be more restricted, 647 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 3: electricity should be tightly controlled everything. 648 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 2: And I think in their minds, they just believe. 649 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 3: Themselves to be these special shepherds who believe that they 650 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 3: know better than the rest of us. They're rich and 651 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 3: they're educated, and they know better, and they're not really 652 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 3: thinking about the downstream consequences of what happens when these 653 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 3: misguided policies are implemented to defund the police movement. In 654 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 3: the book, I cite data from Yugov which found that 655 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: when this representative survey broke down the results by income category, 656 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 3: the richest Americans were the most in favor of defunding 657 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 3: the police, and the poorest Americans were the least in favor. 658 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 3: And that was something that was implemented into policy in 659 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 3: certain cities, and it cultivated an attitude of suspicion and 660 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 3: hostility around law enforcement. And as a result, murder and 661 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 3: homicides and violent crime spiked across the country. And it 662 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 3: wasn't the one percent that were being targeted and victimized 663 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 3: by the crime. These were people who were poor, people 664 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 3: who live in working class areas, people who have to 665 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 3: commute on a day to day basis and work in 666 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 3: dangerous parts of the city. 667 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: Maybe they work a. 668 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 3: Graveyard shift and they're the ones who are being targeted. 669 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 3: But it makes the one percent look good to say, oh, 670 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 3: we need a battle climate change and defund the police. 671 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: The work you're doing in the way you're thinking. You 672 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: have now developed a weekly newsletter. If people sign up 673 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: for your newsletter, what are they getting well? 674 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 3: I send out two to three posts per week on Substack, 675 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 3: which is this new online newsletter platform. It's been out 676 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 3: for a few years, but over the last couple of 677 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 3: years it's really risen in prominence. 678 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 2: Most of my essays and posts are free. 679 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 3: These are things that I've been thinking about for a while, 680 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 3: related to social class, cultural criticism analysis. 681 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 2: I do sort of movie and book reviews and things 682 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 2: like that as well. 683 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 3: But you know, for someone like me, I received degrees 684 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 3: from Yale and Cambridge, and there was a period where 685 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 3: I thought I wanted to be a professor. But academia 686 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 3: is gone off the rails, you know, many people are 687 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 3: aware of what's happening in higher education right now. And 688 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 3: then there was a period where I thought, well, maybe 689 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 3: I'll become a columnist at some media outlet and I 690 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 3: can sort of write about my interests, but journalism is 691 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 3: also going in a negative direction as well, and so 692 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 3: now I just decided to become an independent writer and 693 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 3: write about these topics on my substack newsletter. And I'm 694 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 3: really pleased with how things are going, and it gives 695 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 3: me an opportunity to express some of my views and 696 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 3: also to spotlight interesting research findings like the what we've 697 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 3: been discussing from Rasmussen. 698 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,399 Speaker 1: So people can go to Robkhanderson dot com and sign 699 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: up for newsletter, and I understand you're already at something 700 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: like fifty thousand subscribers. 701 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 3: I launched the newsletter when I was still in grad 702 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 3: school at Cambridge a few years ago. 703 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 2: It was just a sort of a side project. 704 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 3: And yeah, it's grown to fifty thousand plus subscribers, and 705 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 3: people seem to appreciate some of the thoughts and some 706 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 3: of the things that I share that they wouldn't necessarily 707 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 3: get when they open a publication from one of the 708 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 3: legacy media outlets. 709 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: Listen, Robert, I want to thank you for joining me. 710 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: Your new book, Troubled, a Memoir of foster care, family 711 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: and social class, is a great contribution to helping us 712 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: understand the profound influence of education and social class in 713 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: this country. Troubled is available now on Amazon and in 714 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: bookstores everywhere, and you can sign up to receive Rob's 715 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: weekly newsletter at Robkhnderson dot com. And I want to 716 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time to share with us. 717 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, Spiger. 718 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Rob Henderson. You can get 719 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: a link to buy his book, Troubled, a memoir of 720 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 1: foster care, family and social class on our show page 721 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by Ginglish 722 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. 723 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show 724 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team 725 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: at Gingrich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I 726 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 727 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 728 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of 729 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: newts World can sign up for my three free weekly 730 00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: columns at ginglistree sixty dot com. Slash newsletter I'm new Land, 731 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: which this is nutual