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Speaker 1: With respect to jinny green teeth. Well do I remember

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Speaker 1: in childhood's days and isolated Gorton farmstead, with a yeoman's

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Speaker 1: house dating back to the early part of the seventeenth century.

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Speaker 1: Almost overshading It was a somber old yew tree, doubtless coeval,

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Speaker 1: but then beginning to decay. The end was being hastened

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Speaker 1: by the annual Yuletide custom of lopping off the branches

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Speaker 1: in order to decorate the tiny leaden casemented windows than

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Speaker 1: existing in the house, and also in a chapel hard

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Speaker 1: by the green of a neighboring village. Lying at some

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Speaker 1: depth beneath the grassy hillock on which the fine old

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Speaker 1: tree had so long stood sentinel, was a deep dismal

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Speaker 1: pool which had sometime been excavated as a moral pit.

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Speaker 1: Of course, little lads and lasses, with no other playmates

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Speaker 1: than themselves, would now and then, when other pastimes had

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Speaker 1: been run through, amuse themselves by sailing mimic flats and

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Speaker 1: boats in order to deter them from approaching so dangerous

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Speaker 1: a spot. When caught upon the steps leading down to

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Speaker 1: the lading hole, an anxious mother would affirm solemnly, as

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Speaker 1: we then thought that jinny green teeth was artfully lurking

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Speaker 1: in the waters below. Proof of the story was afforded

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Speaker 1: to our unsophisticated minds by the exhibition of a set

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Speaker 1: of human teeth enameled with green tartar. These were said

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Speaker 1: to bear only a faint resemblance to those of the

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Speaker 1: demonus below, who, with her long, sinewy arms, first drew

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Speaker 1: children in and then devoured them. Welcome to Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow your Mind from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey

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Speaker 1: you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick and Robert. I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited. It's October. Yes, we are into our our October.

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Speaker 1: Were offerings here a full month of of Halloween flavored

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Speaker 1: content Monster Science a whole month. It's it's the most

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Speaker 1: wonderful time of the year. And I think I say

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Speaker 1: that every year it is. Now. Granted, we do let

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Speaker 1: a few other monsters, uh you know, leak out and

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Speaker 1: crawl out during the rest of the year, but but

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Speaker 1: we do set aside a number of different topics just

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Speaker 1: for this month's celebration. So that passage that I read

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode was from a letter

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Speaker 1: by a folklorist named John Higson, English folklorist from Lee's

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Speaker 1: who chronicles stories of fairies and Boggert's uh. And it

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Speaker 1: was published in Notes and Queries, a medium of intercommunication

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Speaker 1: for literary men, general readers, et cetera, from Oxford University

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Speaker 1: Press in eighteen seventy. And I'm going to be quoting

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Speaker 1: a little bit more from Higgson's work, But as you

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Speaker 1: may have detected from that passage, today we're going to

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Speaker 1: be focusing on a particular malicious water spirit, a a

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Speaker 1: sodden hag, a fairy of the depths named Jenny green

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Speaker 1: Teeth who will pull you in Yes, to invoke one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite ClickHole videos. If you don't follow the rules,

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Speaker 1: Jenny green Teeth will kill you with their sharp things.

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Speaker 1: And I love knowing that. Now. There are a couple

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Speaker 1: of ways that you could classify Jinny Green Teeth, like

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Speaker 1: what categories she goes in. I guess one would be

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Speaker 1: to say that she's part of this, this class of

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Speaker 1: Bogeys and Boggarts, and Higson's term fair and frightful things

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Speaker 1: the sort of English or or UK tradition of frightful spirits. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and nursery bogies. Uh, that's certainly the term that folkloris

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Speaker 1: Carol Rose uses in her her encyclopedias of various magical creatures,

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Speaker 1: including giants, monsters, and dragons. I think the nursery bogey

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Speaker 1: categorization was applied by the folkloris Catherine Briggs, who does

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Speaker 1: a lot on English fairies and the nursery bogie. Bogie

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Speaker 1: specifically were bogies that were invoked to frighten children, often

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Speaker 1: with an instructive angle, and it seems like they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: usually have much in the way of of real mythic

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Speaker 1: roots beyond their role, as you know, an educational and

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Speaker 1: instructional entity. But on the other hand that they very

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Speaker 1: much could have roots, they could have inspirations because uh,

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Speaker 1: water hags like Jenny green Teeth, they're not unique to

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Speaker 1: the British isles. They're not unique to Jenny Green Teeth especially.

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Speaker 1: We will discuss seems to be situated in like northern England,

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Speaker 1: especially northwest England around Liverpool in Lancashire. Yeah, and we'll

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Speaker 1: will reference a few of her ken that live in

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Speaker 1: the area, as well as some of her more distant

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Speaker 1: relatives that live elsewhere. But it does make. I kept

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Speaker 1: wondering as I was looking at these different examples, some

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Speaker 1: of which that were very much just a folklore nursery bogie,

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Speaker 1: and others that had more of a mythic air about them.

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Speaker 1: You wonder, like, to what extent is a particular nursery

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Speaker 1: bogie a stripped down version of some older, deeper mythological creature,

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Speaker 1: or is it something entirely new or mostly new? I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's probably a little bit of both. There's

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Speaker 1: probably an ebb and flow uh that can be found there.

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Speaker 1: If the nursery bogey is a horrific schoolhouse rock video,

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Speaker 1: is it inspired by something horrific from the past, that

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Speaker 1: is having that is being somewhat tamed or bent to

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Speaker 1: the will of the warning instructive parent. Indeed? Indeed, so

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Speaker 1: let's let's go back to Carol Rose. What what does

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Speaker 1: Rose have to say about old Jenny? Alright? So Rose

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Speaker 1: wrote that Jenny grin teeth is an evil quote predator

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Speaker 1: of humans, and in particular awaits the unwary child who

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Speaker 1: may go too close to the water. So you get

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Speaker 1: too close and she'll come at you with her long

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Speaker 1: green things. Then she'll pull you into the depths, and

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Speaker 1: she can haunt virtually any pond that's covered in green slime.

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Speaker 1: And again she's of course a nursery bogie um, a

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Speaker 1: monster used to instruct children and enforce a wide variety

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Speaker 1: of rules. Example, another bogey that that exists out there

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Speaker 1: is the red legged scissorman uh. And there's a delightful,

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Speaker 1: grotesque rhyme about the red legged scissor man. And essentially,

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Speaker 1: if you suck your thumb, um, the red legged scissor

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Speaker 1: Man will come and cut off your thumbs, which is terrifying.

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Speaker 1: But you see, it's very much just a monster that's

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Speaker 1: made up to scare children out of doing something they're

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Speaker 1: not supposed to do. But then with Jenny Green teeth,

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Speaker 1: the steaks are much higher. This isn't about prevention preventing uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, thumb sucking. This is about preventing a child

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Speaker 1: from wandering too close to the water, falling in and drowning. Now,

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Speaker 1: as we go through the episode, I think we will

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Speaker 1: steadily learn more and more about exactly what that water

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Speaker 1: threat is. Or sometimes Jenny is deployed in ways that

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Speaker 1: have nothing to do with water, though clearly her home

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Speaker 1: is in the water. She she is a water fairy,

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Speaker 1: a water hag. Yeah. I can't help but think of

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Speaker 1: what is it, meg muckle Bones from the Riddlely Scott

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Speaker 1: filmed legend exactly. I think Megma Bones is directly inspired

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Speaker 1: by Jenny She She's gotta be yeah, yeah, just the grotesque,

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Speaker 1: hag like monstrosity, this troll like creature, this loathsome entity

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Speaker 1: that rises up out of the swampy muck. Now I

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Speaker 1: want to continue with what Higson wrote, which was published

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Speaker 1: in in that Notes and Queries in eighteen seventy, where

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Speaker 1: he's talking about the role of Jenny Green Teeth in

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Speaker 1: in English folklore. Picking up where my first quote left off,

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Speaker 1: he says that some of their pits in the locality,

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Speaker 1: and this is generally gonna be talking about Northwest England

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Speaker 1: in the locality were likely patronized by a Jenny Green Teeth.

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Speaker 1: And in my Gorton Historical Recorder, published in eighteen fifty two,

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Speaker 1: there are briefly noticed a dozen places in the township

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Speaker 1: once supposed to be haunted with Boggarts and fair and

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Speaker 1: in addition there were nut NaN's clap cans, Wills with

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Speaker 1: the wisp oh yeah, and Will of the Whisps. Buddy

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Speaker 1: Jack with the landern lantern or Lanthorne it seems to

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Speaker 1: be spelled and Peg with the iron teeth. And lastly,

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Speaker 1: which is more to the point, he says quote, to

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Speaker 1: restrain their children from venturing too near the numerous pits

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Speaker 1: and pools which were to be found in every fold

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Speaker 1: and field, a demonus or guardian was stated to crouch

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Speaker 1: at the bottom. She was known as Jenny Green Teeth,

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Speaker 1: and was reported to prey upon children who ventured too

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Speaker 1: near her domain. Sometimes the water demonus was termed grind Low.

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Speaker 1: This incarnation, of course, might be more familiar to fans

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Speaker 1: of Harry Potter. Oh do they invoke Grendilo or the

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Speaker 1: grindy Low as I've seen it written? Yeah, Rowling mentions

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Speaker 1: grindy lows. I I don't really remember exactly how I

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Speaker 1: think they are water dwelling monsters, but that's all I recall.

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Speaker 1: I like to maybe think that the grindi Low is

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Speaker 1: the species and Jenny as the individual. Oh I like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Jenny is one particular grindi Low, though, as many authors

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Speaker 1: point out, if there's just one Jenny, she really gets

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Speaker 1: around right, because she's in every stagnant pool and marl

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Speaker 1: pit filled in with water and every Dane you're a

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Speaker 1: pit of any kind in northwest England. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, it makes sense that if you've just

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Speaker 1: about any loathsome pool in in England, if you go

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Speaker 1: back far enough in time, you'll probably encounter some sort

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Speaker 1: of horrific tragedy. One thing I like about Jenny green

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Speaker 1: Teeth is that, for some reason her name actually sounds

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Speaker 1: scary to me, whereas many of these Boggers and fair

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Speaker 1: End and stuff, they their names are funny. Unfortunately something

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Speaker 1: has been lost over time. Uh, and so you get

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Speaker 1: like Boum Rapid and the Grizzlehurst Boggert and cleg Hoboggert

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Well, it's it's it's interesting. You have to

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Speaker 1: wonder were they given fun names intentionally or was the

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Speaker 1: or was the the fun name terrifying within contexts? For instance,

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Speaker 1: to take Pennywise the clown. It's a pretty sinister sounding

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Speaker 1: name if you have decades of familiarity with Stephen King's it.

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Speaker 1: But was the name initially sinister or was it initially

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Speaker 1: just a ridiculous sounding clown name. That's a very good point.

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Speaker 1: You know, this will actually go with something that we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about in a minute. There's a paper

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Speaker 1: I read by a folklorist and sort of like a

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Speaker 1: folk song researcher named Annie Gilchrist to chronicles these horrific

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Speaker 1: children's songs of like early twentieth century England, and they're

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Speaker 1: all about like murder and cannibalism and infanticide and family

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Speaker 1: members eating each other and all that stuff. But they're

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Speaker 1: set to these like happy little nursery rhyme tunes. I

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Speaker 1: guess that makes them more creepy, more creepy, but also

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Speaker 1: more memorable. I guess maybe it helps in in relaying

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Speaker 1: the content to young minds. To explore Jenny a little

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Speaker 1: bit more through Higson's letter, I want to read another

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Speaker 1: passage he writes. Quote a clerical friend whose juvenile years

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Speaker 1: were spent in the vicinity of Stockport, Cheshire, states that

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Speaker 1: he remembers being threatened more than once with Jenny Green Teeth,

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Speaker 1: but in that case, probably as there was no pond

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Speaker 1: near the house, she was said to perch in the

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Speaker 1: tops of the trees at least after nightfall. His young

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Speaker 1: imagination having been wrought up to the proper pitch, he

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Speaker 1: was led into the garden and bade to listen to

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Speaker 1: the site of the night wind through the branches, and

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Speaker 1: then told it was the moaning of Jenny green Teeth.

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Speaker 1: It may be just then disturbed with the nightmare. Another

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Speaker 1: clergyman born in Walton Ladale informs me that he remembers

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Speaker 1: an old pit, since filled up, but then existing in

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Speaker 1: his native village, and in which it was affirmed lived

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Speaker 1: Jenny green Teeth, ever on the watch, and therefore woe

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Speaker 1: betided the urchin who ventured too near her domain. Jenny

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Speaker 1: was also known in Manchester. Some fifty years ago, says

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Speaker 1: an antiquarian friend, shooters Brook passes in a culvert under

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Speaker 1: the aqueduct which carries the Manchester and Ashton under Lynn

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Speaker 1: Canal over Shore Street near the London road Station. At

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Speaker 1: that period there existed an opening or break left in

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Speaker 1: the culvert, forming a dangerous spot for children to play beside,

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Speaker 1: and yet they often selected it. Their mother's tried to

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Speaker 1: destroy the fascination by stating that Jinny Green Teeth laid

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Speaker 1: and wait at the bottom in order to nab children

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Speaker 1: playing there. And this highlights something that I think will

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Speaker 1: come back to throughout the episode, which is that it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that children are drawn specifically, it is said to

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Speaker 1: these dangerous locations, the break in the culvert, the dangerous

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Speaker 1: pond or pit. It's like the children specifically want to

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Speaker 1: go right to where the danger to their lives is

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Speaker 1: the highest, and they have to be warned with another

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Speaker 1: kind of danger to keep them away. Oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I I see this this all the time with with

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Speaker 1: my son and his various friends, when we take them

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Speaker 1: out for walks and uh, in the nature trails and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: If there's some sort of dangerous little area where it's

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Speaker 1: like a sheer drop off or something like, that's what

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Speaker 1: they're drawn to, and then you have to you have

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Speaker 1: to urge them away and say, like, look, there's a

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Speaker 1: zero entry like, uh, you know, creek area up ahead,

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Speaker 1: Let's go playing that, not this, uh, this scary little

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Speaker 1: bog that you've picked doubt here for yourself. Uh. And indeed,

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Speaker 1: some of the places that that I've seen them drawn

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Speaker 1: to just in the past few weeks or are very

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Speaker 1: very much the sort of place that a Jenny Green

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Speaker 1: Teeth might be said to reside in. So, Robert, I

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Speaker 1: have a question, have you ever invoked a fictional monster

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Speaker 1: or supernatural threat in order to scare your child away

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Speaker 1: from a real threat. No, I haven't um that. That

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Speaker 1: being said, you know some people are against utilizing, say

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Speaker 1: Santa Claus of the Tooth Fairy. We have Santa Claus,

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Speaker 1: we have the Tooth Fairy, we have the Switch which

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Speaker 1: for Halloween. But beyond these beneficial entities, we have not

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Speaker 1: invoked any other supernatural entities in our daily practice. I

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Speaker 1: guess we just try and be honest about what dangers are.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I can understand the temptation here because

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Speaker 1: with Jenny Green teeth, you that the parent is invoking

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Speaker 1: or creating and in an imagine a monster, a fantastic,

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Speaker 1: lethal monster, instead of having like a frank discussion about

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Speaker 1: the more mundane but equally like traumatic dangers that are involved.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes you want to protect them from the truth

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Speaker 1: of of real danger, like setting down and explaining the

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Speaker 1: dangers of drowning to a child like that can be intimidating.

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Speaker 1: You want to shield them from drowning, but you there's

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Speaker 1: also this instinct to shield them from knowledge of that world.

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Speaker 1: And so I can understand the temptation to utilize the fantastic,

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Speaker 1: to create something horrific but fictional as a like almost

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Speaker 1: a gentler way of teaching them the same lesson, uh,

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Speaker 1: which is weird because that can be they can I guess,

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Speaker 1: be even more harmful in some respects uh, because you're

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Speaker 1: creating this nightmare creature to live in their heads. But

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Speaker 1: I can see where you could reach that point, um,

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Speaker 1: with only the best intentions. That's a really interesting point.

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Speaker 1: And we will talk a little bit more about the

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Speaker 1: real dangers of water and drowning later in the psychology

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Speaker 1: of of how this works out. But um, yeah, is

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Speaker 1: it possible that the monster is actually a defanged version

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Speaker 1: of the threat in a way, not a more threatening

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Speaker 1: version of the threat, but putting the threat into a

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Speaker 1: form that feels more comfortable and less depressing. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: think so. I think there's as a strong case to

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Speaker 1: be made for that, Robert, if you are right with it.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to look at a couple of older a

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Speaker 1: couple more older books and papers that mentioned Jenny Green Teeth.

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Speaker 1: One is a book by Percy B. Green called A

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Speaker 1: History of Nursey Rhymes Really Percy B. Green? Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that guy didn't need a pseudonym, or maybe that is

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Speaker 1: the pseudonym anyway, So I want to quote him later,

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Speaker 1: also because he mentions another fascinating story about a water monster.

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Speaker 1: But Green writes in a middle in the middle of

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Speaker 1: a section about water spirits, he writes, in England, to

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Speaker 1: the north Country, people speak of a river sprite as

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Speaker 1: Jenny green Teeth, and the children dread the green, slimy

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Speaker 1: covered rocks on the streams bank or on the brink

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Speaker 1: of a black pool. Wait, I should I want to

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Speaker 1: throw in this is key too, right, because we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the slime covered rocks themselves. That like, that's a

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Speaker 1: key danger that kid's gonna slip and fall. Um. Yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I had I had to jump in on that. No,

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Speaker 1: that's a very good point. I mean, there's actually specific

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Speaker 1: information about real dangers being conveyed in the superstition though.

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Speaker 1: So it's like you see the green covered rocks, that

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Speaker 1: that might be a sign that the rock is going

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Speaker 1: to be something you could slip off of, and the

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Speaker 1: child might not know that naturally, but the child sees

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Speaker 1: it and says, oh, there's green on the rocks, Jenny

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Speaker 1: Green Teeth is about huh. So you know that's that

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Speaker 1: feels a lot more calibrated, where the example we heard

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Speaker 1: earlier about Jenny Green teeth living in the trees that

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Speaker 1: felt like the tail had become unhinged. You know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that's part of the problem with creating superstitions and

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Speaker 1: myths about monsters like this is that if you're trying

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Speaker 1: to do it for a specific purpose, like to warn children,

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Speaker 1: myths go wild, it's always become untamed. They roam loose,

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Speaker 1: and they become their own thing. Yeah, I mean, as

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Speaker 1: does the logical fear itself. I mean, even as adults

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Speaker 1: we can probably think of things in our lives where

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Speaker 1: they're not really you know, they're not monsters, but they're

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Speaker 1: at least a little illogical. And if you don't watch them,

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Speaker 1: if you don't curb them, then yeah, they can start

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Speaker 1: living in the trees. They go ferrell. But Green writes

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Speaker 1: that a warning of a Lancashire mother to her child

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Speaker 1: is quote Jenny Green teeth will have the goist onto

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Speaker 1: river banks. Now, I think I already mentioned the the

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Speaker 1: author An E. G. Gilchrist, who has done some work

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Speaker 1: chronicling folk songs discovered in the wild, and she wrote

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Speaker 1: a paper for the Journal of the Folk Song Society

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Speaker 1: in nineteen nineteen that is called Note on the Late d.

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Speaker 1: Dressed in Green and other fragments of tragic ballads and

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Speaker 1: folk tales preserved among children. So this is about folk

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Speaker 1: songs sung by children in early twentieth century England. And

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Speaker 1: these songs are just messed up. They are I think

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Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, they're They're all about murder, cannibalism, hiding

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Speaker 1: dead bodies in your house. It is fascinating that we

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Speaker 1: often think that children need to be protected from horror,

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Speaker 1: Like I can understand that impulse, but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: This just seems to me like an indication that children

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Speaker 1: naturally gravitate to themes of murder and death and gore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they can be rather severe in their invocation of

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Speaker 1: these ideas. Now, the main song talks about in this

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Speaker 1: paper is uh is one called the Lady Dressed in Green,

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Speaker 1: which gil Christ heard sung by a girl named Margaret

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Speaker 1: in a Southport orphanage, and Margaret apparently brought it from

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Speaker 1: a Lancashire workhouse, and gil Chris goes on to discuss

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Speaker 1: how versus of the in verses of this song, the

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Speaker 1: Lady Dressed in Green is holding a baby and then

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Speaker 1: she murders her baby with a pen knife, and then

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Speaker 1: three bobbies come and haul her off to prison. And

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Speaker 1: so gil Christ is talking about the significance of the

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Speaker 1: song and it's parallels to other similar children's rhymes, songs,

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Speaker 1: murder ballads, and so forth. And one of the interesting

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Speaker 1: things is the significance of the color green, and this

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Speaker 1: leads her to talk about the color green in its

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Speaker 1: relation to curses and bogeys and evil fairies and spirits.

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Speaker 1: We will talk more about the significance of the color

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Speaker 1: green later, but as for Jenny Green Teeth, gil Christ writes,

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Speaker 1: quote of still more sinister import is the color in

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Speaker 1: the case of Jenny Green Teeth, the evil water spirit

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Speaker 1: appearing as the green scum on stagnant water, what claws

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Speaker 1: you in, as country children say, if you go too near?

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Speaker 1: Or in the obscure and horrible English folk tale of

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Speaker 1: the green Lady, who appears to be a sort of

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Speaker 1: lamba or vampire, living on or delighting in blood, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps deriving her name and Hugh from a classic serpent ancestry.

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Speaker 1: But Jenny Green Teeth and perhaps green lay he also

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Speaker 1: is allied with the German water nicks and green hats,

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Speaker 1: the hat appearing to be a tuft of beautiful vegetation

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Speaker 1: growing in the water, who dragged down the unwary to

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Speaker 1: the depths. They're horrible fate being visible in a fountain

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Speaker 1: of blood which spouts up through the surface of the water.

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Speaker 1: This is interesting, the the the mention of of serpents,

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Speaker 1: because as I was looking through Carol Rose and looking

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Speaker 1: at various uh aquatic uh you know, fresh water especially monsters.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of serpents in various beliefs, weird

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Speaker 1: serpents in uh Native American beliefs as well. And this

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Speaker 1: makes a certain amount of sense, right, because you will

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Speaker 1: encounter snakes around the water sometimes. Yeah, and this would

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Speaker 1: be a very old fear and human culture, but also

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Speaker 1: even predating some of that, you know, just sort of

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Speaker 1: an ingrained thing to be afraid of. Yeah, we're all

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Speaker 1: the cat with the cucumber behind us. Now. I can't

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Speaker 1: move on without mentioning what Gilchrist writes about this other

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Speaker 1: or the green Lady story that may have its origins

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Speaker 1: in some kind of serpent ancestry. She writes that she's

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Speaker 1: never found a version of the Green Lady folktale in print,

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Speaker 1: but there's there's a version she heard from a person

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Speaker 1: named Ethel Kidson and This is how it goes. A

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Speaker 1: little girl took service with the green Lady. The next morning,

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Speaker 1: after preparing breakfast for her, she called up the stair,

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Speaker 1: green Lady, Green Lady, come down to your breakfast. But

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Speaker 1: the Green Lady did not come down. The formula was

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Speaker 1: repeated for dinner and supper, but still she did not appear.

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Speaker 1: At last, the little girl went upstairs to the chamber door, and,

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Speaker 1: urged by curiosity, looked through the keyhole and saw the

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Speaker 1: Green Lady dancing in a basin of blood. Now this

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Speaker 1: paper is actually worth a look if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: just go look it up to see the absolutely depraved

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Speaker 1: folk songs that children sing. Oh. Yes, one of these

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Speaker 1: that you highlighted here, My mama did kill me? Uh,

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Speaker 1: And it has that this sheet music with it. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna attempt to sing just a little of it, with

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Speaker 1: fear warning. I'm not very good at reading sheet music.

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Speaker 1: But it goes something like this, My mama did kill

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Speaker 1: me and put me in a pie. My dad da

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Speaker 1: did eat me and say it was I. And then

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Speaker 1: it goes on, my brother and sister did pick my

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Speaker 1: bones and bury them under cold marble stones, and bury

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Speaker 1: them under cold Marble Stones. We we were emailing with

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Speaker 1: our producer Alex about this, and Alex was trying to

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Speaker 1: make sense of the line my Dada did eat me

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Speaker 1: and say it was I. Now, one way of reading

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Speaker 1: that could be like, I don't know the dada knows

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Speaker 1: what the child's flesh tastes, like like, oh, that's that's him,

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Speaker 1: that's the one I'm eating. Or maybe the dad da

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Speaker 1: is saying, no, you're eating yourself. It's you that's doing

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Speaker 1: the eating of you. I tend to favor the earlier interpretation,

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Speaker 1: but either way you slice it, it's that pretty unsettling.

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Speaker 1: One more paper came across that mentioned Jenny green Teeth

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Speaker 1: I thought had a really kind of sad but fascinating

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Speaker 1: story about something that happened uh in the sixteenth century.

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Speaker 1: So this is a paper by Terence R. Murphy called

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Speaker 1: Woeful Child of Parents, Rage, Suicide of Children and Adolescence

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Speaker 1: in Early Modern England fifteen o seven to seventeen ten

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Speaker 1: in the sixteenth Century Journal And so the author writes

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Speaker 1: that there was a case of an adolescent suicide in

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Speaker 1: Cambridgeshire in fifteen sixty five, where a quote twelve year

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Speaker 1: old Agnes Adam went horseback riding with her girlfriend and

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Speaker 1: accidentally got her clothes dirty. She came toward home, but

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Speaker 1: fearing that her father would punish her, she rushed to

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Speaker 1: a pond in her father's clothes and drowned herself. And

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Speaker 1: then there's a footnote saying quote the coroner's jury swore

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Speaker 1: that Agnes adams motives were timor parentium correct gonis and

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Speaker 1: met us castigatitionis. The jury could or would not recognize

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Speaker 1: her hostility toward her parents. How when and where she

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Speaker 1: killed herself suggested that she intended to become in death

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Speaker 1: a life demanding water spirit. The motive was childish and silly.

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Speaker 1: This spirit was a nursery bogey, which adults customarily and

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Speaker 1: cynically used to intimidate children into behaving themselves properly. Little

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Speaker 1: children like Agnes believed in nursery bogies, but wiser adults

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Speaker 1: did not. This is one instance where adult duplicity and

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Speaker 1: terrorization of children backfired when a child believed her elders

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Speaker 1: lies enough to act on them in order to get revenge. Well,

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Speaker 1: there we go. We've reached a like peak bleakness for

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Speaker 1: this episode. That's a sad story, but it does illustrate

425
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: something interesting about how you know, we've been talking about

426
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: using the idea of a specter or water hag or

427
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: a monster to warn children away from real danger. But

428
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: this tends to show that if, if this is really

429
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 1: what happened in this case, a child's belief in the

430
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: existence of this kind of creature could actually cause her

431
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: to call it to kill herself, to cause harm to herself. Yeah,

432
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: it's it's it's powerful magic to start messing with the

433
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: magic of belief. All right, I think we should take

434
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: a quick break and when we come back we will

435
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: talk about other specters of the water than All right,

436
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: we're back, Robert, tell me about Nelly long Arms. All right, Yeah,

437
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: so these are We're gonna run through a few different

438
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 1: versions of of old Jenny Green Teeth here and these

439
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: are all from again, that that excellent book by Carol Rose. Uh.

440
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: If you look up Carol Rose and Monsters or Fairies

441
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: you'll find her Encyclopedia's um they're all still in print

442
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: and I always highly recommend them. Lots of wonderful illustrations.

443
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: But yeah, we have Nelly long Arms, and she's essentially

444
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: just Jenny Green Teeth with the fangs and the green skin,

445
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: but with added elongated arms and spidery fingers. And you'll

446
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: find her in the folklore of Derbyshire, Cheshire, Lancashire, Shropshire

447
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: and york Ire. And there's also a nearly identical long

448
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: armed monster named We've discussed this in already the Grindy Low,

449
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: and it's tied more specifically New Yorkshire. And then there's

450
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: Peg Powler. This is another creature of the same sword

451
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: and this one is just straight up identical to Jenny

452
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: Green Teeth. But she said to live specifically in the

453
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: River Tease and belongs to the folklore of the border

454
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: region between Yorkshire and Durham Now. Carol Rose also mentions

455
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: a male incarnation of the same entity named Cutty Dyer.

456
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: This one is from the folklore of Ashburton in Somerset, England,

457
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: and he said to haunt the bridge over the river. Yo.

458
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: I believe it is white yo ye. And he's in

459
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: a normal He described as an enormous man with eyes

460
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: like saucers, and he'd emerge behind you and either pull

461
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: you into the river or slit your throat and drink

462
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: your blood. And she she shares the following little ditty

463
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: that's attributed to an ollably blind ash And resident in

464
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. Remembering this is you know from from

465
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: his childhood. It goes, don't he go down the river's

466
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: eyde cuttie die? Or do abide cutty dire, ain't no

467
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: good cutty die, or drink your blood. This one didn't

468
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: come with sheet music, so I don't know if if

469
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: it had a tune to it or is just like

470
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: something you might chant. I kind of like the idea

471
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: of it just being a dirge. Now. Water monsters have

472
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: just got to be one of the best kind of monsters,

473
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: right because they can play on several different fears at once. Right.

474
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: They can be near you without you knowing it because

475
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: they're underneath the surface and maybe the water is dark

476
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: or murky and you can't see down there. But they

477
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: also play on fears of drowning. Once they get you

478
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: down into their world, they've got all the power. You're

479
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: not going to be able to defend yourself much underwater.

480
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of great water monsters around the world,

481
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: far too many for us to talk about today. Right.

482
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: For example, we've talked about the Japanese monster, the Kappa before.

483
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: That's right, the Japanese spirit. It kind of looks like

484
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: a ninja turtle, but with a little pool of water

485
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: and its skull and if you get it to bow

486
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: to you and the water spills out, then it loses

487
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: its vital essence. Yeah. So so they're all over the world.

488
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: But since we're talking about Jenny Green Teeth today, I

489
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: think we can specifically focus on like water monsters of

490
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: the British Isles. Right, So, another one I know about

491
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: that Katherine Briggs wrote about is the idea of the kelpie.

492
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 1: Katherine Briggs wrote that Scotland has a kelpie in every

493
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: lonely lock. Yeah, the kelpie is very interesting. This is

494
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: this is one um. I don't know if I read

495
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: about it before Dungeons and Dragons or if I was

496
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: initially introduced to it in Dungeon Dragons, but it's I

497
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: think long been um, an inmate of the monster manual.

498
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: But it's a traditional Scottish monster said to haunt the

499
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: shores of locks forwards and fairy points. And it seems

500
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: to be more robust than a mirror nursery bogie, or

501
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: or at least it evolved beyond that point. Maybe it

502
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: ended up the influencing some of these other entities we've

503
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: been discussing, but it does have a far more robust

504
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: air of legend about it. It can appear as a

505
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: shaggy old man, a handsome young man, or most famously,

506
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,959
Speaker 1: a beautiful black or gray horse. WHOA, that's a departure. Yeah. Never,

507
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful woman though, which it seems unnecessary for

508
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: it to take that form, because the horse form was

509
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: sufficient to attract women, young men, and children alike. Everybody

510
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: loves a gorgeous horse. Do they do you when you

511
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: just see a horse? Do you walk up to it? Yeah?

512
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: I mean, especially back in the day, like like this,

513
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: it was value. I love also the mythic dimension of it.

514
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: You know, there's this kind of idea that maybe more

515
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: tender individuals they want to go and meet the animal,

516
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: and maybe harsher individuals they just see maybe the monetary

517
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: value or the raw power of the thing. I guess. So,

518
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: oh yeah, the monetary value is I guess like seeing

519
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: a horse without an owner or a parent would be

520
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: what kind of seeing like a free car are somewhere?

521
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean horse thieves were everywhere, right, So

522
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: there's kind of this idea that unattended horse is also

523
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's something that maybe it belongs to somebody

524
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: and maybe you're just gonna try and steal it. But

525
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: the idea here is that the creature the Kelpie was

526
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: was a portent of drowning an aquatic doom. But if

527
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: you could force a bridle over it, you could harness

528
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: the power of the kelpie and ride it. And there

529
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: are various tales of like individuals who successfully rode the

530
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: kelpie and and what one might do with the harnessed

531
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: power of the kelpie that sort of thing. What would

532
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: you do? Um, you would basically just just run them

533
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: up for a little bit. There are also some tales

534
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: of like the kelpie powering water wheels at mills. So

535
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: there's this interesting idea of like the kelpie being this, uh,

536
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: the embodiment of just the raw power and danger of

537
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: of water. Yeah, that's really interesting. It's kind of like

538
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: a horse, you know, something that may be tamed and used.

539
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: I've done so respectful, but that ive you if you

540
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: step out of line or you don't know what you're doing,

541
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: you can easily be killed by it. Yeah, And of

542
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: course a brook can gallop the same way a horse can. Uh. Yeah,

543
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: so we see some more dualities like that in other

544
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: water creatures. Like one that comes to mind I think

545
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: is is it would it be the marrow or the

546
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 1: mirrow marrow of Ireland. Yes, there there's some versions of

547
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: this that are more purely monstrous, and other versions that

548
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: appear to be less less dangerous, less monstrous. Yeah, like

549
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: is described by Carol Rose. He gives a pretty friendly

550
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: account of them, that they're peaceful and they generally get

551
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: along with humans. They have a little red cap that

552
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: allows them to shape shift and walk on land and uh,

553
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: and that they sometimes breed with humans as well. But

554
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: from that Percy B. Green book I mentioned earlier. Now,

555
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: who knows this is from the eighteen hundred, so maybe

556
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: Green's folklore work is is not super rigorous. But Green

557
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: has a much darker vision of the mirrow. He writes,

558
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: quote the Irish fisherman's belief in the soul's cages and

559
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: the mirror or man of the sea was once held

560
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: in general esteem by the men who earned a livelihood

561
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: on the shores of the Atlantic. This mirrow or spirit

562
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: of the waters sometimes took upon himself a half human form,

563
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: and many a sailor on the Rocky coast of Western

564
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: Ireland has told the tale of how he saw the

565
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: mirrow basking in the sun watching a storm driven ship.

566
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: His form is described as that of a half man,

567
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: half fish, a thing with green hair, long green teeth,

568
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: legs with scales on them, short arms like fins, a

569
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: fish's tail, and a huge red nose. He wore no

570
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: clothes and had a cocked hat like a sugar loaf,

571
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: which was carried under the arm. Never did be put

572
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: on the head unless for the purpose of diving into

573
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: the sea. At such times, he caught all the souls

574
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: of those drowned at sea and put them in cages

575
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: made like lobster pots. Oh wow, I love how that

576
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: this invokes plenty of you know, much older ideas of

577
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: aquatic human It's and even like an old man of

578
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: the sea. Uh, you know, much like like Proteus himself,

579
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: but present there is this weird twist of him essentially

580
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: taking out lobster pots to catch souls. Well, it strikes

581
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: me as a perhaps intentionally ironic or blasphemous inversion of

582
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,959
Speaker 1: the Christian idea of being a fisher of men. The

583
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: marrow is a fisher of men. Interesting. Now, I also

584
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: have to mention one of one of my favorite depictions

585
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: of of of a fresh water monster, and that's the

586
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: illustration What Came of Picking Jessamine by Henry Justice Ford,

587
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: an illustration in Andrew Lang's The Gray Fairy book. Okay,

588
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: this is a great illustration, right, and I'm going to

589
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: make sure to include this on the landing page for

590
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: this episode. It's stuff to Blow your Mind dot com,

591
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: so everybody can check it out. But it's but that

592
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: the book itself, The Gray Fairy. This is available as

593
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: well on the web. I think Project Gutenberg has it

594
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: and you can you can get the PDF and scroll

595
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: through it and read these various uh fairy tales from

596
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: throughout Europe and uh and and even beyond I believe,

597
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: but they all have these wonderful illustrations as well. But um,

598
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of just roll through the story really quickly.

599
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: It's an illustration though from the Portuguese fairy tale What

600
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: Came of Picking Flowers? And I'm gonna try and roll

601
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: through it real quick for everybody. Basically, a woman's three

602
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: daughters are lost in the process of picking three different plants.

603
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: A pink carnation arose, and then some Jessamine or or Jasmine.

604
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: Their brother, the only survivor in the family, grows up,

605
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: acquires some magical items, and decides to get his lost

606
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: sisters back. But as it turns out, the first sister

607
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: was not dead, but locked away in the magic castle,

608
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: trapped in I guess you can just say a magical

609
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: marriage arrangement with the King of the Birds. So he

610
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: fixes that, and then he becomes a friend of the

611
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: King of the birds. Wait, so removes the King of

612
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: the Bird's wife who is his sister, but also becomes

613
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: friends with the King of the Birds. Well, I'm just

614
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,439
Speaker 1: gonna just just to to simplify things, I'm just gonna

615
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: say he fixes their magical scenario because the first two

616
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: sisters here are are less important for our purpose this here.

617
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: But then he goes off and seaches searches for the

618
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: second sister. He finds that she too is trapped in

619
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: a magical marriage to the King of the Fish. And

620
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: here it sounds like there's more of a Lady Hawks

621
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: scenario where husbands a fish half the time, and it's

622
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 1: it's a kind of annoying. So he manages to fix

623
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: this scenario as well, and becomes a friend of the

624
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: King of the fish is the brother Rutger Howerd And

625
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: when I was reading, I certainly pictured him like that,

626
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: like Rudgar Howard, but with more of a fishy look

627
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: to him. And then finally he sets out for the

628
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: third sister and find finds that she was in fact

629
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: captured by a monster. This monster that we see in

630
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: this illustration. What came of picking Jessamine. This troll like

631
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: entity that grabbed her, came up out of the water

632
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: and pulled her in. But this monster has been keeping

633
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: her prisoner in his castle because she refuses to marry him.

634
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: So the brother sneaks in and he talks to her

635
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: about this, and he says, look, here's what you need

636
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: to do. Promise to marry the monster, but only if

637
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 1: he tells you how he can die. Tell make sure

638
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: that he tells you the secret of his death, because

639
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: like a lot of magical creatures, you know, there's only

640
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: one way, one specific way you can kill it. That

641
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: is a smart pre nup. Yeah, so I mean, yeah,

642
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: if you're a horrible monster. But anyway, this uh, the

643
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: monster here He just kind of laughs and says, oh yeah,

644
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: I'll tell you because this information will be completely useless,

645
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: especially to you. And he tells her that there's an

646
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: iron casket at the bottom of the sea and it

647
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: contains a magical dove, and that dove's egg, if dashed

648
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: against the monster's forehead, will kill it. Okay, so um,

649
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: you know he la has a good laugh at that.

650
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: And meanwhile the brother uh sneaks away and he goes

651
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: to the King of the fish and convinces the King

652
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: of the fish, who you know owes in one to

653
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: fetch the casket, which he does. Uh. They're running the

654
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: cast it up, and then the bird flies out of

655
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: the casket. So he asked the King of the birds

656
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: to grab the dove and bring it back. So the

657
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: King of the Birds goes off, gets the dove, brings

658
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: it back. He ends up with that egg, and he

659
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: rushes back to where the monster is waiting impatiently for

660
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: the go ahead to marry the sister. He's becoming, you know, impatient.

661
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna read the last little bit from

662
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 1: Andrew Lang's version of the story quote. At a sign

663
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: from her brother, she sat down and invited the old

664
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: monster to lay its head on her lap. He did

665
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: so with delight, and her brother, standing behind her back,

666
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 1: passed her the egg unseen. She took it and dashed

667
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: it straight at the horrible head, and the monster started

668
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: and with a groan that people took for the rumblings

669
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: of an earthquake, he turned over and died. That's a

670
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: boss fight for the ages. Yeah. I love it. It

671
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: it it's it's one of those fairy tales. It's maybe

672
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: a little shaky in the early goings, but it totally

673
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 1: delivers at the end. I like how the the alliance

674
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: with the King of the Birds and they of the

675
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: fish comes through. Yeah. Yeah, this is one I would

676
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: have loved to have seen Jim Hinson's storyteller bring the

677
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: life because it's it's it's a little bit. It's perfect

678
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: because it's a little bit weird and it has a

679
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: really hideous monster in it and a kind of whimsical

680
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: way of defeating it. That is a great story. But

681
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Jinny Green Teeth and

682
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 1: discuss a little bit more about what the Jenny Green

683
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: Teeth lore means, like what it tells us about culture,

684
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: about our values, our psychology, and so one of the

685
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: things that's explored is the the importance of the color

686
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: green in the jinny green teeth lore. Anny Gilchrist, in

687
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: her paper on the Lady Dressed in Green, talks about

688
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: this a good bit. She says that in in England

689
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: at the time, the color green is widely believed to

690
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: be a quote ill omened hue for a garment because

691
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: it symbolizes the loss of maidenhood or the loss of

692
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: a lover. Uh. And there's this saying apparently that green

693
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: is forsaken and yellows forsworn, or green can also symbolize

694
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: being passed over for younger bride quote, as in the

695
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: case of the green stockings or garters, in which the

696
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: elder unmarried sisters had to dance at a younger sister's wedding.

697
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: But she also writes that quote the unluckiness of green

698
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: clothing must be a very old belief and perhaps had

699
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: reference originally to a fear of incurring the hostility of

700
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: the spirits of the woods by borrowing their livery. So

701
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: the idea there is that the fairies, the fairies are

702
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: not nice. I mean this is a sort of modern

703
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: thing that we think fairies are. Oh, fairies are sweet,

704
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 1: they're fun traditionally, I think fairies are much more nasty creatures.

705
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the fairy folk are are generally best thought

706
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: of as uh, poorly understood, magical alien folk that kind

707
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 1: of lived and live in the folds of realities. Yeah,

708
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: and so if the fairies dress in green, they can

709
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: easily be made jealous to see humans dressing in green apparently.

710
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: Uh and so gil Christ talks about how there's a

711
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: book called folk Floor of the Northern Countries by a

712
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: writer named Henderson and hend person Rice quote. Green, ever,

713
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: an ominous color in the Lowlands of Scotland, must on

714
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: no account be worn there at a wedding. The fairies

715
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: whose chosen color it is would resent the insult and

716
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: destroy the wearer. Henderson also claims that mothers in the

717
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: south of England sometimes forbid their daughters from wearing green,

718
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: and avoid even having green furniture in their houses. And

719
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: also there's a general belief in the folk rhymes of

720
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: the time that the color green is a sign of

721
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: hatred when given as a token from someone, So like,

722
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: you would give someone a blue ribbon as a sign

723
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: of true love, but you'd give someone a green ribbon

724
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: as a sign of hatred. Gil Christ also says that

725
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: a tailor once told her that his workers hated to

726
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: see a green garment come into their come into their

727
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: shop for mending. Says, they believe that there's this rotten

728
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: curse of the color and it could fall on them

729
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: as well, for for for working on it. And then

730
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: she also says, of course that the color green is

731
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: associated with poison. So I think this is interesting because

732
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: I think of green as a very nice, RESTful, pleasant color.

733
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: In fact, I think green is my favorite color. Well,

734
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of of modern individuals associated with green, Like,

735
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 1: what's the greenest superhero? I guess like green Lantern, writer's green.

736
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: There's another green, Well, there's green Goblin, but he's he's bad.

737
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: What's the green Hornet? Green Hornet. I don't know much

738
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: about green Hornet, and I'm sure he wears all that

739
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: much green. Confession, I don't know that much about superheroes.

740
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: There's Peter Pan, kind of a superhero. Well he you know,

741
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: Pan embodies sort of the spirits of wildness in the forest.

742
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: He's sort of wearing green because he is a fairy

743
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: in a way. Peter Pan is like Pan. You know,

744
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: Robin Hood as well, yeah, these green garments, I think

745
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: are associated with the fact that that a person is

746
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 1: sort of is of nature, is of the fairy world,

747
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: is untamed and uncivilized, and not not necessarily subject to

748
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: say the Christian authorities. You know, this would I think

749
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: this would be a topic for another day. But then

750
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: you could you could also explore the whole realm of

751
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 1: the green man or the green night from our thirty

752
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: in legend. Well, yeah, I think that that would be

753
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: a great thing to explore. And whatever is going on

754
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: with the color green in in gilchrist time is is definitely,

755
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, not reflected in the

756
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: color psychology of late twentie in early twenty one century

757
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: scientific journals, and as far as I can tell, most

758
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: of this research appears to be on Americans. And I

759
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: can see how color psychology could be hugely influenced by culture,

760
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: of course, like it would really depend on like the

761
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: culture of the people you're testing. Yeah, I mean one

762
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: modern example of this, if I'm remembering the antidote, the

763
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: anecdote goes correctly. Um, we've touched on before the importance

764
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: of red uh in Chinese culture. Uh, and I believe

765
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: it has to do with phone uh smartphone design. Uh.

766
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: The idea of something going from red to green being

767
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,720
Speaker 1: a positive movement and say checking off a tab or something.

768
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 1: But I've i've my understanding was correct. For Chinese markets,

769
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: you'll often see an inversion of that, like to go

770
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: to the positive movement cannot be away from red. It

771
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 1: must be towards red, because red is the most auspicious color. Yeah,

772
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: that's interesting, and so I think it's pretty clear that

773
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: color psychology is going to be heavily influenced by culture.

774
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: I doubt that there is just like a you know,

775
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: a universal color association thing across human beings that's part

776
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 1: of our biological brains or something. Oh yeah, Like I've

777
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 1: read before about interpretations of the color pink and about

778
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: how we we fell into this kind of you know,

779
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: grotesque cohole of just assuming that like pink is a

780
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: feminine color, whereas you see older traditions where pink was

781
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: very much a masculine color, and ultimately like what is

782
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: what is the color of fresh wounds on the battlefield?

783
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: You know? But pink and red? You know, I think

784
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: of the I believe pink is the color and Game

785
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: of Thrones attributed to the Bolton's, it's like red and

786
00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 1: pink or their colors because they don't like flaying human flesh,

787
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: those creeps. Yeah, well, anyway, just what whatever all the

788
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 1: caveats are and how this is influenced by culture and everything.

789
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: I was poking around in a few studies about color psychology,

790
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: and generally what it seemed to be. What seemed to

791
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: be the case to me is that green is not

792
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: usually viewed by the subjects of these studies as something

793
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: that's cursed or scary or or an ill omen Blue

794
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: and green are generally seen as more psychologically relaxing, whereas

795
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: red and yellow or more arousing and more associated with anxiety.

796
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: States Um and the authors of one study described how

797
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: green was described the word green was associated with the

798
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: quality of being good, whereas like the word yellow was

799
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: associated with the quality of being bad, and that blue

800
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: and blue, green and green were colors that cause subjects

801
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,399
Speaker 1: to feel more pleasure than colors like yellow and yellow. Green.

802
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: Here's another significant thing in the ginny green teeth folklore,

803
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: and it is the significance of a articular green plant.

804
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about a paper called Lemna

805
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: Minor and Jenny Green Teeth by a botanist, an English

806
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: botanist named Roy Vickery, who has apparently written a good

807
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: deal about the folklore of plants. And this was published

808
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: in the journal Folklore in nine three. And this was

809
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: a great paper about Jenny Green Teeth because he's picking

810
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: up on the work of people like Catherine Briggs and

811
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: Vickery wants to give a fuller account of Jenny Green

812
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: Teeth and explore the relationship between Jenny and this water

813
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: plant known as lesser duckweed or Lemna minor. Now Limna

814
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: minor you've probably seen before. I added a picture to

815
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: our our outline here Roberts, so you can take a

816
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: look at it. But Lemna minor the duckweed is a

817
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: is a green plant that floats on the top of

818
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: stagnant water in ponds and pools. And it has very

819
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: small leaves and can end up looking like a flat

820
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: matte of green on top of the water. If it

821
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: collects enough, it can make a watery surface look just

822
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: sort of like a flat putting green or something. Yeah,

823
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: it's like the hard phone cap atop an old school cappuccino,

824
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 1: except green. It totally is so uh so. Vickory writes,

825
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: the stories of Jinny Green Teeth are still told around

826
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: the Liverpool area, and Liverpool is of course northwest England,

827
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: near Lancashire, and he writes quote, Usually she's considered to

828
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: be a bogey who inhabits quiet pools and drags venturesome

829
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: children down into the depths. Sometimes she's considered to be

830
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: the harmless water plant lesser duckweed, and occasionally she can

831
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: be found far away from any pool. And in his

832
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty nine book of book The Flora of Liverpool,

833
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: author TV Hall notes that quote, marl pits abound on

834
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: both sides of the Mercy, which is a river going

835
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: through that area, and are caused in most instances by

836
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: excavating clay for the purpose of making bricks. Before these

837
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: pits are a year old, they're filled with aquatic plants,

838
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: and specifically, of course that plant is general really lesser duckweed.

839
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: This small green plant that floats on the top of

840
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: the water has these little root ten drils that extend

841
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 1: down into the water, but can look like this matt

842
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: from above, and Vickery writes quote, In summer, such pools

843
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: are frequently covered with a dense mat composed of thousands

844
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: of floating duckweed plants so that their surfaces appear solid Lesser.

845
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: Duckweed is one of the world's smallest flowering plants, each

846
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: plant measuring one point five to four millimeters in diameter,

847
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: with tiny and significant flowers and a thread like root

848
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: which may reach several centimeters in length. Obviously, any child

849
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: who attempted to walk across a pond covered with duckweed

850
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: would soon find himself in serious difficulty, and so, of

851
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: course this creates an interesting association that for some children. Apparently,

852
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: Jenny green Teeth was not a name for a magical monster,

853
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: but was literally the name for the duckweed itself. And

854
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: Vicary quotes the experience of a woman who recounted her

855
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: childhood memories about Jenny Green Teeth to him in the

856
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: December of nineteen eighty. She starts by talking about the

857
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: area where she was brought up, and then she says, quote,

858
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 1: it was and still is, largely a farming area, and

859
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: many of the fields contained pits, never ponds, which I

860
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: believe our old moral pits. Some of them have quite

861
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: steep sides. Jenny was well known to me and my contemporaries,

862
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: and was simply the green weed duck weed which covered

863
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,959
Speaker 1: the surface of stagnant water. Children who strayed too close

864
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: to the edge of these pits would be warned to

865
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: watch out Virginny green teeth. But it was the weed

866
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 1: itself which was believed to hold children under the water.

867
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: There was never any suggestion that there was a witch

868
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: of any kind there. And then another firsthand account, the

869
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: vicary quotes quote, as a child in the countryside of Cheshire,

870
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: I heard the name Jenny green Teeth given to the

871
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: bright green water plant that lies on the surface of

872
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 1: stagnant ponds. The minute leaves are rather like tiny teeth,

873
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: and imagine that if one fell into the pond, the

874
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 1: green scum like plant would close over one's head. Thus

875
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: Jinny green Teeth had got you. Now that's an interesting

876
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 1: development there. There's still this predatory aspect being imputed to

877
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: Jenny Green Teeth. But she's not a hag, she's not

878
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: a witch. It's the plant that kills you. It lures

879
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: you into the water by making it look like a

880
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: solid surface, and then when you fall in. The children

881
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: imagined this plant would close over top of you like

882
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: a like a membrane ceiling you under the water interesting,

883
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: So we kind of have a they're meeting is halfway

884
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: between like actual realistic fear and an outlandish monstrous invention,

885
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: right because there's no indication that duck weed will actually

886
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: close over you and prevent you from getting out of

887
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: the water. But it can be dangerous because it can

888
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: make a deep pit of water look like a solid

889
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: surface that you could just run straight into. So one

890
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: question is did this association between the Jenny green teeth

891
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: monster and duck weed begin earlier late? Like, was Jenny

892
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: a pre existing bogey figure who later came to be

893
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: identified with duck weed or was she always a creature

894
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: of the weed? And I think the answer is not

895
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 1: quite clear. Vicary cites one scholar who wrote that the

896
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 1: association had to be recent, since he believed Jenny quote

897
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: had descended from the water spirits of Gothic mythology, whose

898
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: great seductive beauty was somewhat marred by their green teeth.

899
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 1: And of course this makes me think about a principle

900
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: we've talked about several times from that book The Demon

901
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 1: Lovers by Walter Stevens, Yeah and Demon Lovers, Witchcraft, Sex,

902
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 1: and Crisis of Belief. He examines a number of different

903
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: texts associated with which with witchcraft, persecution, witchcraft, theory of

904
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: the day, and one of the texts that he looks

905
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,800
Speaker 1: at is The witch or on the Illusions of Demons

906
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: by Jeanne Francesco Pica del Mirandola, who died in fifteen

907
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: thirty three. Now Pico was the nephew of the influential

908
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: philosopher Giovanni Pico, and Pico the younger here was wasn't

909
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: was an influential thinker of the days. Well, he was

910
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: an intellectual who championed, quote, the truths of Christianity against

911
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: the crescendo of skepticism that he felt Aristotelian science fostered

912
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 1: by encouraging an empirical attitude towards the world. So Stevens

913
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 1: wrote that he quote brilliantly understood the way to fight

914
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: skepticism was with skepticism itself. So, in other words, Pico

915
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,760
Speaker 1: was an enemy of reason who used his intellectual gifts

916
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: to champion religious worldview over skepticism. His works enforced quite

917
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: literally the idea of a demon haunted world. But Pico,

918
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: in his work, he describes a conversation between four individuals,

919
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: including the inquisitor dicasti, so which means judge who quote

920
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: helpfully explains that all the trial records of the inquisition

921
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: revealed that the devil can create a nearly perfect facsimile

922
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: of the human body, but never can get the feat

923
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: to come out right. Never the feat. God makes the

924
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: feat come out in verse those at preposteros, so that

925
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 1: people will know that they are in the presence of

926
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: a devil and not be fooled into thinking that he

927
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: is human. Thus they have no excuse for sinning. The corollary,

928
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: which Decosts does not state, is equally important. Imperfect feet

929
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: are an infallible way of recognizing demons, so we should

930
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: not fear that which is mistake ordinary humans for demons.

931
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: So perhaps you know Jenny works along some more lines

932
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: or or plays upon these trends and storytelling, right, well,

933
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 1: I think the idea here would not necessarily be Jenny herself,

934
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: but would be the creatures that this scholar is saying

935
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: that Jenny descends from. The idea of the green teeth

936
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: comes to us from the fact that there would be

937
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: the seductive water spirits who might they might be beautiful

938
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: to lure men into the water and drown them. But

939
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: like like the witches that Dacostis is talking about here,

940
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: would have one feature that would be a tell that

941
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: would let you know that God has not allowed this

942
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: demon to be a perfect mimicking of human beauty. And

943
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: that tell is that she's got disgusting green teeth. Well,

944
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: and from a storytelling standpoint, it's always great to have

945
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: that that little uh, that that little detail at the

946
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 1: last minute that clares everyone in, Oh, it's not a woman,

947
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: it's a demon, etcetera. Uh. Incidentally, this also reminded me

948
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: of a line from C. S. Lewis is The Lion,

949
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: the Witch and the Wardrobe, where it's written quote, when

950
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: you meet anything that is going to be human and

951
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 1: isn't yet or used to be human once, and isn't

952
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: now or ought to be human, and isn't you keep

953
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: your eyes on it and feel for your hatchet. Sound advice,

954
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: sound violent advice, sound advice. Alright, on that note, we're

955
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: gonna take one more break and we'll come back. We're

956
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: gonna discuss duckweed a little bit more. We're gonna discuss

957
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 1: Jenny Green teeth a little bit more, and then we're

958
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: going to close out. Thank thank alright, we're back. So.

959
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: Vickery also in his paper sites other first hand accounts

960
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: that the association with duckweed also also goes the other way.

961
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: It's not just that Jinny green Teeth is a nickname

962
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 1: for the lesser duck weed. It's that lesser duck weed

963
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: could be a sign that Jenny green Teeth is lurking underneath. Uh.

964
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: In an interview with a thirty four year old woman

965
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,240
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty uh, the interview goes quote, I remember,

966
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,439
Speaker 1: as a very small child being told by my mother

967
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: to stay away from ponds, as Jenny green Teeth lived

968
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: in them. However, I only recall Jenny living in ponds

969
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: which were covered in green weed, of a type which

970
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: has tiny leaves and covers the entire surface of the pond.

971
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: The theory was that Jinny enticed little children into the

972
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: ponds by making them look like grass and safe to

973
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: walk on. As soon as the child stepped onto the

974
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: green it of course parted, and the child fell through

975
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: into Jenny's clutches and was drowned. The green weed then

976
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,959
Speaker 1: closed over, hiding all traces of the child ever being there.

977
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: This last point was the one which really terrified me.

978
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: And kept me well away from the ponds. And indeed

979
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,280
Speaker 1: my own children have also been told about Jenny, although

980
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: ponds aren't as numerous these days. As far as I know,

981
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: Jenny had no known form due to the fact that

982
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: she never appeared above the surface of the pond. So

983
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: here the matt on the surface of the pond is

984
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: it's like a trick that Jenny green Teeth uses. She

985
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: is a hag, she is a witch, but she uses

986
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: the duck weed to lure people to her. But then,

987
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: also interestingly, Vickery mentions that Jenny would sometimes get dislocated

988
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: from her home turf like children who grew up in

989
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: Liverpool recount how they believe Jenny Green Teeth didn't live

990
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: in ponds or pools, but in churchyard cemeteries, and that

991
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: she would reach out and drag children into the graveyard

992
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: and then into burial vaults. And then here's a really

993
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: interesting one. In the nineteen forties, parents in South Cheshire

994
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: told children that Jenny would get them if they ventured

995
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: too close to the railroad tracks. So Jenny Jenny green

996
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 1: Teeth of the the industrial world. Now, that is interesting

997
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: because it seems like the idea that the train could

998
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: run you over. That seems far more over, Like, do

999
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: you really need to invoke mythology uh to make that

1000
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: that uh, that threat reel. Yeah, that's a good question.

1001
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: I think we can come back to that at the

1002
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: very end. But you know, one of the things that

1003
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 1: we haven't really talked about yet is the idea that, uh,

1004
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: that water's edge attacks strategies are actually a pretty common

1005
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: ambush tactic of some predators. Right. Oh yeah, Well, let's

1006
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: let's discuss a few of them here, because some of

1007
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,280
Speaker 1: them are are really impressive. I think the most obvious

1008
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: one and maybe it's just most obvious to us because

1009
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: we watch enough nature documentaries uh and or terrible movies,

1010
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: but croco crocodilian species their attack strategies. So crocodilians, you know,

1011
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: everything from alligators and crocodiles to more you know, to

1012
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: lesser known creatures such as the cayman. Uh. Crocodilians are

1013
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: specialized in hunting both in the water and at the

1014
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: water's edge, so they they're ambush predators. They wait for

1015
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: prey to come close, such as near the water to drink,

1016
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: and then they lash out with amazing speed. Uh. And

1017
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: there's some fabulous Nature documentary documentary footage out there of,

1018
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: for instance, nile crocodiles attacking will the beast that are

1019
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: either drinking or preparing to cross bodies of water during migration.

1020
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: And much like the stories of Jenny Green Teeth, one

1021
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: of the things about a lot of crocodilian attack strategies

1022
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: is that they get you into their world, into the

1023
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: water world that they control. So like, if you're just

1024
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: out on land, you might easily be able to get

1025
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: away from a crocodile, But if the crocodile can get

1026
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: up close to you and can snatch you and get

1027
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,439
Speaker 1: you into the water and do this thing that's often

1028
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: referred to as the death roll, this twisting ocean in

1029
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: the water that breaks your bones, that disorients you, and

1030
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: then you can allow it to drown you in the

1031
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: water before it feasts on you. Um. Yeah, this is

1032
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: a way that it gets you into its domain. It's

1033
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: like Jenny Green Teeth pulling you down undernea the mat

1034
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: of the duck weed. I have to admit I was

1035
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: nearly pulled in and overtaken by just research related to

1036
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: crocodilians because I ran across a paper titled on terrestrial

1037
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: hunting by crocodilians by Vladimir Dennets Uh. And and he points, uh,

1038
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: you know out that purely terrestrial attacks yea, even on

1039
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: humans are documented. So we're talking about attacks that take

1040
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: place not in the water, not at the water's edge,

1041
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: but outside of the water. Now, I don't mean like

1042
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: you know, you know, downtown New York City or anything.

1043
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm talking about area near the water wouldn't rule anything out,

1044
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: but but it but that they do occur, uh. For

1045
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: and this is a particularly interesting You have the Cuban crocodile,

1046
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: which apparently is is the most terrestrial of of of

1047
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: today's crocodilian species in that it is more adapt at

1048
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: at moving about and uh and even hunting out of

1049
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: the water. And uh, it's thought that the Cuban crocodiles

1050
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: ancestors may have used pack hunting behavior to take down

1051
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: giant ground slots in the past, giant ground slots. Yeah.

1052
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: So it's just again just a tantalizing tidbit that maybe

1053
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: we can come back to in a later episode, the

1054
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: idea of pack hunting Cuban crocodile ancestors. So that would

1055
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 1: be the what the megatherium? Yeah, those things look like

1056
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 1: I wouldn't imagine anything would mess with them. Yeah, but

1057
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: if you have enough enough land crocs, then who knows. Now.

1058
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: Another really impressive organism to talk about here is the

1059
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: archer fish. And this one also is kind of superstar

1060
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 1: of certain nature documentaries. So it's a family of fish

1061
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: that's evolved an amazing means of hunting prey. Uh. They

1062
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 1: shoot a highly specialized stream of water at insects on

1063
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: branches that are overhanging the water, and they spit this

1064
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: stream in such a way that high the higher velocity

1065
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: rear portion of the stream catches up to the lower

1066
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: velocity front portion of the stream right before it hits

1067
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: the target, jamming everything into a glob, just one solid

1068
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: globe of water. So it just really pops. It's like

1069
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: a it's a water bomb. Yeah, it's it's just a

1070
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: water bomb that hits them and then knocks the insect

1071
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: off into the water where it can get them. It

1072
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: uses exceptional eyesight to aim, as well as an ability

1073
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: to compensate for the refraction of light as it passes

1074
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: through the air water interface, which is impressive in and

1075
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: of itself. And then it's also interesting to know that

1076
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: they're they're not born dead eyes. They actually have to

1077
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: practice and learn by observing other fish in their school. Interesting,

1078
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: so usually think of fish is learning very much. I

1079
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: know that these are from several different angles. These are

1080
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: fascinating creatures. They also use their water jet attack underwater,

1081
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: and they've been observed jumping out of the water to

1082
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 1: catch prey as well. Now their their jet of water.

1083
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: It has a functional range of something like one to

1084
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 1: two meters or three ft three inches to six ft

1085
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: seven inches, but they can shoot it farther than that,

1086
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: but it just doesn't have particularly good aim beyond that point,

1087
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: you know. Another example I would like to mention is

1088
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: the fact that we all know seals and sea lions

1089
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: can be fearsome predators themselves, right, but sometimes, of course

1090
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: they have to flee a more powerful flesh gobbler, which

1091
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: is the orca, the killer whale. Oh goodness, and this

1092
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: is another superstar of nature documentaries. Yes, Now, normally, if

1093
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: you're a seal of sea lion, the best way to

1094
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: escape a killer whale is going to be what swim

1095
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: full speed for sure, get onto the beach or the

1096
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: rocks of the orca can't reach you. Right then, you

1097
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: can just lay around all day and for the most part,

1098
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: nothing's gonna miss with you. Right, I'm thinking of the

1099
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: you know the swim Charlie swim scene in Jaws. Right,

1100
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: the shark won't follow you onto the beach. There are

1101
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: no land sharks. But one of the strangest attack strategies

1102
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in nature is the way that the

1103
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: orca has learned to defy this logic. Sometimes orcas will

1104
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: deliberately beach themselves to catch prey that has escaped onto land.

1105
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 1: For example, the orcas of the Valdes Peninsula on the

1106
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: Atlantic coast of Argentina are known for doing this. They

1107
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: will chase a seal or sea lion that's on the

1108
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: ground or in the in the shallow water like the

1109
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,479
Speaker 1: surf or just up on the rocks, and the orca

1110
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: will rock it towards the water line, crash over it

1111
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: onto land, snag a seal, and then flop around and

1112
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: slide back into the water, dragging the seal with them.

1113
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 1: It's an impressive and just awesome site. And and it's

1114
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: like the ultimate nightmare. Right, There's so many just unbelievably

1115
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,439
Speaker 1: powerful predators in the water that you always think like, well,

1116
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: at least I'm safe on land. And to be clear

1117
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: with the target here is the seal. So yes, humans

1118
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: are safe from beach based orca attacks. Right, at least generally,

1119
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't rule out that it could never happen. Well,

1120
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: but I would not lose any sleepover right, No, yeah,

1121
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: nothing to go about your life worth and about. But hey,

1122
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: let's go to another similar example, Robert, I want you

1123
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: to put yourself in a in a city in France.

1124
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: Imagine yourself wandering along the river Tarn in southern France,

1125
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: in the commune of Albi. Like a lot of urban areas,

1126
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 1: Albi has its resident population of pigeons. We all know

1127
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: about city pigeons, and they're probably out there getting fat

1128
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: off of the bread that falls off the edges of

1129
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: cafe tables and stuff like that. The winged rats of

1130
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 1: civilization now in the river dwells a mighty leviathan, the

1131
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 1: European catfish. The European catfish Silarus glanis is not not

1132
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: native to this river, but it is this invasive species

1133
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: that has taken over rivers in in all throughout Europe,

1134
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: and it is Europe's largest freshwater fish. I believe it's

1135
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: the third largest freshwater fish in the world. And these

1136
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 1: things get big. I've read like a meter to even

1137
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: a meter and a half long, and they are thick. Now,

1138
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: I want to remind everybody that the catfish are generally

1139
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: regarded as a bottom feeder. Um. I imagine you you

1140
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: haven't grown up in Tennessee like I like I have,

1141
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,880
Speaker 1: there were a lot of stories of the catfish that

1142
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: grow gigantic in the like the depths near dams, for instance. Yeah, exactly,

1143
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: And there weren't a lot of stories about them being

1144
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess they were occasionally stories about them,

1145
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, biting or whatnot. But for the most part, yeah,

1146
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 1: they're down there in the deep. They're not really concerned

1147
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,439
Speaker 1: with the surface until you catch one on your reel

1148
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: and you bring it up right. So you're in albeit,

1149
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: you're going along the river and the river tarn, and

1150
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 1: you notice the pigeons are hanging out on a little

1151
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: gravel island to clean themselves by the water, and you,

1152
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: of course also see these invasive catfish, the monstrous catfish,

1153
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: floating around at the water's edge. And then suddenly what

1154
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: you see is that one of these leviathans lashes out

1155
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: of the shallows, partially beaches itself, clamps its jaws down

1156
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 1: on a pigeon's head or leg or wing, and then

1157
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: drags the bird down into the deeper part of the

1158
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 1: water to feast. There was a study into thousand twelve

1159
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: and pl Os one that that characterized this behavior by

1160
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: Julian coukros Set, Stephanie Bullatrow, Frederick Asamar, Arthur Compeen, Matthew Guillaume,

1161
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: and Frederick Santool, and the authors characterized the catfish in

1162
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: this case as freshwater killer whales. And now they noticed

1163
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: something interesting. Only moving pigeons were attacked, and the catfish

1164
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 1: that hunted pigeons would tend to hold their you know

1165
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: those whiskers catfish have on their faces, the barbels, They

1166
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: would tend to hold those erect while they were hunting.

1167
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 1: And this led the authors to conclude that the catfish

1168
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 1: were probably hunting by sensing vibrations in the water. But

1169
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 1: fascinating question, how did this hunting strategy come about? How

1170
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: did the how did the catfish start going from just

1171
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, normal aquatic feeding behaviors to saying, yeah, I'll

1172
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: jump out of the water into the air, onto the

1173
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: land that would probably kill me, grab a pigeon and

1174
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: drag it in. How did it this side to become

1175
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: Jenny green teeth? I'm guessing it probably started off as

1176
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: a like a crime of opportunity, right, Yeah, But it's

1177
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: always I mean, it's just hard to imagine, like how

1178
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: behaviors like that originate. What how did it start happening? Well,

1179
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: it makes me think of our old friends, the squirrels,

1180
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: the scugs, and uh, their their their predatory side. And

1181
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: what point does a creature that is not that is

1182
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 1: clearly not evolved for such behavior begin, you know, dipping

1183
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:31,439
Speaker 1: its little toes into that, right? Yeah, But then again,

1184
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 1: when you think about it, I mean, it is a

1185
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: great opportunity, right because the water's edge is sort of

1186
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 1: a perfect ambush. Point is the crocodilians have caught onto

1187
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: the attacker can get so close to the prey while

1188
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: remaining hidden, just like Jenny lurking under the duck weed.

1189
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: And and this emphasizes that there are actually multiple reasons

1190
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: that water's edge fears are not just you know, psychologically salient,

1191
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: but they're entirely justified in many ways, especially when you're

1192
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: talking about children. Yeah, this, this really brings us back

1193
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 1: to a we talked about a very beginning, the the

1194
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: idea that there is this, this real and perhaps you know,

1195
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: very honest reason for for crafting these myths or at

1196
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 1: least embracing these these folkloric beliefs and then passing them

1197
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 1: onto children. Uh. You know, And I definitely want to

1198
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: be sensitive about this because accidental drowning deaths are are

1199
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 1: a very serious matter and a traumatic matter, especially when

1200
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: it concerns children. I've known people personally affected by tragedies

1201
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: like this, and and it is it's difficult to find

1202
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 1: words to even and even talk about them. You know,

1203
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: there's just such a such a you know, a bleak

1204
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: traumatic experience to even contemplate. Uh. And I know that

1205
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: some of you out there listening to this episode you

1206
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 1: may have lost people in this matter. And I do

1207
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: want to drive home that you do have our our

1208
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: sympathies even as we discuss the you know, the human

1209
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: myth making that builds up around the truth. But but

1210
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: let's let's stop just to consider some of the modern

1211
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: stats about accidental drowning according to the CDC from two

1212
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: thousand five to two thousand and fourteen, there were an

1213
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 1: average of three thousand, five hundred and thirty six fatal

1214
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 1: unintentional drownings non voting related annually in the United States,

1215
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: about ten deaths per day. An additional three hundred and

1216
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: thirty two people died each year from drowning in boat

1217
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: related incidents. About one in five people who die from

1218
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: drowning our children fourteen and younger, and for every child

1219
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: who dies from drowning, another five receive emergency department care

1220
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: for non fatal submersion injuries. This is worth noting here

1221
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 1: as well, because if you haven't if you don't have

1222
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: any firsthand account with drowning, or you're not trained as

1223
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 1: a lifeguard, you might not realize that it's it's not

1224
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: just this definite line between drowning and almost drowning, between

1225
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, dying in the water and surviving um. The

1226
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 1: CDC page points out that uh more than fifty percent

1227
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: of drowning victims treated in emergency departments require hospital treatment,

1228
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 1: and non fatal drowning injuries can will cause severe brain damage,

1229
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: the result in long term disabilities. I mean, this kind

1230
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: of thing emphasizes and we should be clear that these

1231
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 1: are modern statistics. These are based on a time where

1232
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: I think it is more common for people to know

1233
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: how to swim, like to have been taught how to swim. Um.

1234
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,360
Speaker 1: That this is probably not referring as often to people

1235
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 1: living in places where it's common for there to be

1236
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: stagnant pools that are covered in a map that make

1237
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: them look like grass. Um. I mean, so, so yeah,

1238
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 1: this is different circumstances even but it highlights how dangerous

1239
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 1: water can be. If you're an adult who knows how

1240
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: to swim and you don't think about dangers to children,

1241
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 1: you just really might not realize how real of a

1242
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 1: threat a standing body of water is. So the myth

1243
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: making of Jenny Green Teeth as a as a warning

1244
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:51,599
Speaker 1: to keep children away from the duckweed ponds and the

1245
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: moral pits filled in it seems like a very very

1246
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: reasonable thing to do in a way. I mean, I'm

1247
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: not necessarily advocating making up fictional monsters to scare children,

1248
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:04,599
Speaker 1: but you can see why people did it, and so

1249
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: Jenny is often used educationally as a safety warning. The

1250
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,759
Speaker 1: monster is invoked to keep children from playing near dangerous

1251
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: bodies of water or in other contexts that are dangerous,

1252
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:18,799
Speaker 1: like around railroad tracks like Vickery talked about. But here's

1253
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 1: this interesting part we were talking about earlier that I

1254
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 1: feel like we still haven't necessarily solved The thing you're

1255
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: warning children to stay away from is real life threatening danger,

1256
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: And in order to get the message across, you have

1257
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: to create a fictional, supernatural, life threatening danger. Children are

1258
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: obviously motivated by self preservation, or the fictional supernatural life

1259
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: threatening danger wouldn't work. But for some reason, some risks

1260
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 1: to their body safety and their survival don't seem to

1261
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: be as salient or as as effective as others. And

1262
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 1: apparently mothers and fathers are wagering that children are just

1263
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: not likely to obey warnings about the risks of deep

1264
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: water that says you could fall in and round. They

1265
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 1: think children are more likely to obey a warning that

1266
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:06,680
Speaker 1: says the green Lady will get you. So why is

1267
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 1: the fictional threat more compelling and more useful than the

1268
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: actual threat? Now I come back again to what I

1269
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,560
Speaker 1: said earlier about how I feel like the monster is

1270
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 1: actually still a sanitized version of the threat um And

1271
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: and isn't it interesting too that we see these examples

1272
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 1: where you're personifying the threat, you're turning the threat into

1273
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,639
Speaker 1: a humanoid entity. But then you're making it an old woman,

1274
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: which also feels like a sanity, like you're sanitizing it

1275
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 1: because you're not making it into a man, which if

1276
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: you look at the if you look at the chances

1277
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:48,680
Speaker 1: of a of an individual posing a significant bodily and

1278
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 1: certainly a lethal threat to a child, that individual is

1279
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 1: far more likely to be male, um, you know, without

1280
01:11:56,320 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: certainly getting into into stranger danger and the more or

1281
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: you know, inflated aspects of this sphere. But but you've

1282
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:06,759
Speaker 1: you've You've chosen. There seems to be there's an active

1283
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: choice here in making Jenny Green Teeth, making it an

1284
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 1: older female entity instead of a male entity, which would,

1285
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 1: again I think, bring it too close to horrific real

1286
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: life situations that you're trying to avoid and crafting the myth.

1287
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: I think I agree with that, though, then again I

1288
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 1: wonder if this is this is a sort of modern

1289
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 1: American cultural bias on our part that makes us feel

1290
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: this way. I mean, we might not feel like old

1291
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 1: women are necessarily less dangerous. If we say we're in

1292
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 1: a context in which we believed witchcraft was real. That's true,

1293
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 1: that's true. If we have we're taking this and we're

1294
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:48,520
Speaker 1: we're steeping it in. Uh, the age of witchcraft persecution

1295
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:52,639
Speaker 1: and the an age in which which tales of hags

1296
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 1: and witches are are are found everywhere. Then again a

1297
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 1: lot of this is taking place, and say the early

1298
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 1: twentieth century, in which case I don't know how many

1299
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: people in north Northwest England in the early twentieth century

1300
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 1: thought witchcraft was real. But then again it wasn't that

1301
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 1: far removed from from witchcraft persecution. Again, we have to

1302
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: remember that witchcraft persecution was what was what was not

1303
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: a medieval um uh practice, it was post medieval early

1304
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 1: modern yeah. Um. Before we we closed out here, I

1305
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 1: do want to quickly reference another green entity that I

1306
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 1: forgot to mention that I should have mentioned, that I

1307
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 1: can only imagine is based in part on some of

1308
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 1: these ideas, and that is the Hitcher from The Mighty Bush,

1309
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:40,560
Speaker 1: the green skinned hag like male Cockney character. I'm not familiar.

1310
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 1: Oh you haven't he sings the song about Eels. No, well,

1311
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 1: those of you out there who have watched The Mighty Bush,

1312
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about. If not, um, do

1313
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: a do a search for for Bush and Hitcher and

1314
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:55,600
Speaker 1: I think you'll be delighted with what you find. I

1315
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: thought you were going to say, cheddar goblin, ch cheddar goblin.

1316
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 1: It is more recent for dominant, but but I think

1317
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: probably unrelated to this particular fairy tale. Well, Robert, I

1318
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 1: have had massive fun with this epic exploration of water

1319
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 1: hags and Jinny Green teeth. Yeah, this has been a

1320
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 1: good one. Uh, there was, there was. There's a lot

1321
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 1: more beneath the depths than one might think. You know,

1322
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: you don't know how deep that pond really is. All right,

1323
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,800
Speaker 1: If you want to check out more episodes of Stuff

1324
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind, our other October offerings, October offerings

1325
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: from Halloween's past, you want to head out over to

1326
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's the mothership.

1327
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 1: That's where you'll find all of them. That's where you'll

1328
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:36,840
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Speaker 1: to support the show by buying just a little bit

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1336
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:58,759
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1337
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:01,280
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1338
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:03,080
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01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:06,960
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01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,519
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1342
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:20,840
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