1 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: I've told y'all about my uncle Clark, my grandfather's brother 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: on my mother's side. He was a thief, a con artist, 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: and a swindler, but I've never told y'all the ending 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: May twelfth, nineteen fifty one, on a lonely two lane 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: dirt road out in the country in Wilcox County, Georgia, 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: he was found shot to death. No murder weapon was found, 7 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: nothing of value was taken, not from his car, and 8 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: not from him personally. It looked like retribution. When the 9 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: sheriff went and gave notice to my grandfather of what 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: has occurred, he asked him, do you know anybody that 11 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: would want to kill your brother? And my grandfather answered 12 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: half of this county in the next Because my grandfather 13 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: knew his brother, He knew he was a thief and 14 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: a con man and a swindler, and he also knew 15 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: he had slept with a lot of wives, so there 16 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: were a lot of people that might have wanted to 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: hurt him. Sometimes your murder victim is a criminal. Clark 18 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: was a lot of things, but he was not violent. 19 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: He never hurt anybody physically, and none of his crimes 20 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: deserved the death party. Some of Carl Patton's victims were 21 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: not perfect. Some had done some really bad things, but 22 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: at least two of his victims chose men that were 23 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: maybe no good for him. But two of his victims 24 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: were not bad people and were not criminals. Lyddy Evans 25 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: is one of those people. She was a mother of four. 26 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: I've been told that she was the life of the party, 27 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: a good woman, and a loving and devoted mother. I 28 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: reached out to Lyddy's youngest child, who was just six 29 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: years old when her mother was murdered, and y'all, she 30 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: said something so extraordinary to me. I want to share 31 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 1: it right now. She said, and I quote, we were 32 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: told during the trial that their own daughter, Melissa, had 33 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: been murdered. I wouldn't wish that pain on anybody end quote. 34 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: Then I had a chance to talk to Lyddy's eldest daughter, 35 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: who was only sixteen when her mamma died and had 36 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: to take the role of the person to raise the 37 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: younger children, and she said to me, and I quote, 38 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: I wouldn't wish that horror on my worst enemy, not 39 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: even Carl Patton. Lyddy Evans was thirty one when she 40 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: was reported missing. She was living with a man by 41 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: the name of Joe Cleveland, who y'all now know was 42 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: another victim of Carl Patton's was Carl's best friend since childhood. 43 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: I get asked a lot when it comes to Melissa's murder. Hey, Cheryl, 44 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: don't you think this was in retribution? Maybe one of 45 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: the family members of one of Carl's victims got even 46 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: with him. The first thing that comes to my mind 47 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: is to the people asking me that realize that they're 48 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: accusing innocent people of murder. And then, as a criminologist, 49 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: I think to myself, why would that person wait twenty 50 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: five years to get even? Why would they not kill Carl? 51 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: Why Melissa and not Norma Like a lot of these 52 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: things don't make sense when I'm asked that question, But 53 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: y'all know how I feel. Let's go to the source. 54 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: So today we have the opportunity to speak to the 55 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: children of Lyddy Evans. I just want to thank y'all 56 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: as a group for being here. I know that it 57 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: is not easy to talk about your mama, to talk 58 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: about Carl Patton, to talk about the trial, to talk 59 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: about the way that she was killed. But it's important 60 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: to me to give a three sixty view of this 61 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: whole tragedy, and y'all are part of that. And to 62 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: dispel some of the rumors and some of the questions 63 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: about whether or not y'all or a member of the 64 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: other families might have had something to do with it, 65 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: I think we ought to addressed that head on, and 66 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: I'd like to start with Philip. All right now, Philip, 67 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: you are married to Carolyn, yes, ma'am. So you're what 68 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: I call an outside insider, yes, ma'am for thirty seven years. 69 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: You're related by marriage, You're in this family, you're part 70 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: of this family. You have lived with this tragedy as well. 71 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: But I'm just going to ask you straight up, you 72 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: have anything to do with Melissa's murder, not a thing. 73 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: In fact, I didn't know that Melissa. I didn't know 74 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: Melissa had been harmed any way until well after the 75 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: fact of her dad being put in prison for my 76 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: wife's mom's murder, exactly. And that's pretty much going to 77 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: be the case for every family member. And that's one 78 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: thing that again I appreciate right out of the gate, 79 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: you let me come to you, because you know it's 80 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: somebody that is kind of on the perimeter of what occurred. 81 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: I think it's important that people understand the timeline. Carl 82 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 1: Patton got away with this for twenty five years, and 83 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: nobody went after him, nobody tried to harm him for 84 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: twenty five years. In fact, we didn't know didn't know 85 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: he had a daughter until the trial, you know, just 86 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: a little while after the trial when these facts started 87 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: to come out about him. Knew about him and Norma, 88 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: but didn't know about the daughters. Now, Carolyn, if you 89 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: just want to start and tell me how y'all found 90 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: out what happened to your mama that day, just start 91 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: telling me about Lyddy Evans. Well, if I remember correctly, 92 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: we got a phone call saying that they had found 93 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: a body and we had to go and see who 94 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: see about it, if I remember correctly, And they were 95 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: also shoring it on the news about them finding bodies 96 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: in the Flint River about the time we got the 97 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: phone call. Did you have to go to the morgue? 98 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: Did somebody else and your family go? I didn't go. 99 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: We went to the hospital, but we didn't get to 100 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: see mother's body. They wouldn't allow it because we were 101 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: so young. I guess Roy, is that what you remember, yes, ma'am, 102 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: I was about seventeen when it happened. Renee was fifteen 103 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: and I was fourteen, and Sylvia was six, So y'all 104 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: be in teenagers. I mean, y'all knew your mother. I mean, 105 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: y'all have great memories of her. Sylvia might have a 106 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: little bit lesser memories because she was so young, but Renee, 107 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: you and Roy and Carolyn certainly remember her. Renee tell 108 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: me how she was the life of the part. Well, 109 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: my mom either she liked her, she didn't like you basically, 110 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: and m but my mom, she our mother would give 111 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: you the shirt off her back. And she was just 112 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and there's just too many people. 113 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody that didn't like our mother. 114 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: She was just whatever was going on, she was, you know, part, 115 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: wanted to be part of it. And it's just aw 116 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: Like I say, my MoMA, all mother, I don't know 117 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: what I mean. She's a good hearted woman and she 118 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: just she was easy going off. She loved your young guests. 119 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: She never bothered nobody. She worked and come home and 120 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: looked after her youngest And I'm all mother never bothered 121 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: no one. Now, Carolyn, your mama she loved wide open, 122 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: didn't she meaning if you if she loved you, you 123 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: knew it. She was very truthful. If she liked you, 124 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: you knew and then if you didn't she didn't like you, 125 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: you all knew it. Yeah, No, I understand. I understand 126 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: that kind of person, and frankly, I love that kind 127 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: of person because you always know where you stand. There 128 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't be a question. Now, Sylvia, when you and I 129 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: first talked again, your response just touched me so much. 130 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: And then Renee had the same sentiment that here y'all 131 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: are y'all have lost to so much? I mean your mamma, 132 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the person that's going to love you 133 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: the most in this whole world, and for somebody to 134 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: take her from you, yet you still have care and 135 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: concern for what happened to Melissa Wolfenberger. And again to me, 136 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: that sets this whole case in such a proper place, 137 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: meaning no harm should come to anyone, and if it does, 138 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: everybody should care about that and want justice for that person. 139 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: Like Melissa's kids, I was so young and I had 140 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: to grow up knowing that someone did that to my 141 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: mom and we didn't know who did it. Well, in 142 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: our case, we knew, but you know, there was no justice, 143 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: and I wouldn't wish that on anybody's children. As far 144 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: as Carl and Norma, I have no sympathy for them, 145 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: but I have every sympathy in the world for their kids. Roy, 146 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: what would you say to Carl Patton if you could? Well, 147 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: Like I say, the day they sentenced him at the 148 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: coal house, that man looked like he was didn't have 149 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: a cure in the world. That chow, no compassion or nothing. 150 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: And we know it was a hard day, you know. 151 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: I hated it took twenty five years to lock the 152 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: man up and kill mom, you know. And his wife, 153 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: she helped with everything, and they let her off. I 154 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: think she should have been locked up along beside him 155 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: because she helped with all of that. You know. I 156 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: have nightmares to this day about my mother and what 157 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: he did to her. I remember his face like it 158 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: was yesterday, you know. And Roy, you've always known it 159 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: with him, Oh yes, when when I was a little 160 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: I was staying with while I was staying with dead, 161 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: I used to go up there and how shot would 162 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: be there. He always carried a gun on his side 163 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: and stuff that both of them all would carry the 164 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: gun on his side, you know, like they said, somebody 165 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: said he was in the Dixie mafia. I've heard that rumor. 166 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: Somebody said he was hide killer if you had the money, 167 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: and when somebody did, Carl Patton will do it. And 168 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: you know he killed a lot of in some people 169 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: and you know, and he's getting what he deserved. You know, 170 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: he should never see daylight step foot out of that 171 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: present again. He should rot in there and old Maut 172 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: being there with him. Never Nate, you've said that you've 173 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: had some nightmares as well. Yes, ma'am, I take I've 174 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: taken a mental health mess to this day and one 175 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: of them, uh, I have taken night time. That's for nightmares. 176 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: And I'm like my brother, I know that he would 177 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: he killed Mama from the from the get go. Well 178 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: in in like my brother's city, I always had that 179 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: gun and it was a pearl, had a pearl handle 180 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: on it. I'll never forget, never forget as long as 181 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: I live now, Caroline. When it comes to the court trials, 182 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: did y'all go to all of them, Fat and Henry 183 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: and the cab all of them? We went to the 184 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: cab and the Fat. We didn't go to the Henry 185 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: County when I don't think, but um, we went to 186 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: We went to those, me and my two sisters, and 187 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: I think my brother went to the one in the 188 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: cab too. To remind people real quick, the victims were 189 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: in different places because two of the ones that were 190 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: thrown in the flint of her floated into different counties literally, 191 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: and then Fred was put in another county when he 192 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: hit the train. So you've had different counties that were involved, 193 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: even though it was the same series tied together. So 194 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: did you find the different trials did you learn something different? 195 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Was his attitude different ever, or was it the same 196 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: type of sterile? Are you admitting to this, yes and 197 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: moving on? It was the same type of sterile, and 198 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: he still had no remorse. And when he looked at 199 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: us in court, he looked like he was staring a 200 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: hole through it. She could sit to me, I could 201 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: just see evil dwelling there. And his wife when she 202 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: got on the stand and testified, I'll remember her illustrating 203 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: and talking about what the time was right and this 204 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: shot her and she demonstrated how mother fell over on 205 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: accounts and it was like she had no she was 206 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: so insensitive. I mean, she kept a straight face, she 207 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: didn't cry nothing while she was doing all this, And 208 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: I don't I don't understand how people can be so insensitive. Carolyn, 209 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: do you think she was just telling a story? Do 210 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: you think she was afraid of Carl or do you 211 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: think she just didn't care. I'm not sure, because I 212 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: know my mother was afraid of Joe. She was scared 213 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: of him because he was He was very possessive and 214 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 1: very you know, like we're gonna do what I say 215 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 1: or else. And so when she came up missing, I 216 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: thought it was the two of them together. I thought 217 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: it was Joe anhot shot, because he was abusive to 218 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: me when nobody was around, so I thought it was 219 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: I thought it was I thought it was probably both 220 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: of them together. Joe Cleveland was abusive to you when 221 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: nobody was around, Yes, very And I've heard the same 222 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: thing about Fred White with different people. Sylvia. Do you 223 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: have any memory of that at all or were you 224 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: just too little? I remember, you know, Joe getting known 225 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: to me and you know, standing me in the corner 226 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: and giving me spankings, But I don't remember a lot 227 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: of abuse now. But can I say something in reference 228 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: to what my brother said earlier. Yes, anything, my brother 229 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: said that Carl Patton got what he deserved, but I 230 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: don't agree with that. He still gets to visit with 231 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: his family, He gets to see pictures of his grandkids, 232 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: all the milestones, and I think that you and I 233 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: talked about this before. You know, all the milestones, you know, 234 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: my sixteenth birthday, when I had children, all the different 235 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: things Carl still gets to experience, although not behind prison walls, 236 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: he still gets to experience those things and see it's grandkids. 237 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: And I just don't think it's fair. And I don't 238 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: think that normal. It's fair for normal to be walking free. 239 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: I think that's a point that is valid. I mean, 240 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: there's no question about he gets to see photographs, he 241 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: gets personal visits, He gets to understand the birthdays and 242 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: the milestones, the graduations, the weddings, the baby's right. He 243 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: does absolutely, now, Roy, for you, being the oldest and 244 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: a man, was this even more difficult for you because 245 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: you could not protect the women in your life at 246 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: that time? Yeah? It was. When when I went to court, 247 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: I said about two or three roles behind Carl putting 248 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: and you know, crazy thought running through my mind. I 249 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: wish I could just go over there and jump across 250 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: and just choke him to death, you know, for what 251 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: he did to mom. You know the reason I asked 252 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: that is I've heard other men that are victims of 253 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: crime say that same type of thing that they wish 254 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: they could have protected them and stopped this from happening, 255 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: and after it does happen, just like you're saying when 256 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: they go to court or anything else. Yeah, I wish 257 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: I could have. But I lived down here with Daddy. 258 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: I lived in Alabama. My sister lived with Mom in Georgia. 259 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: You know, I went up there on the weekend and 260 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: seeing Mom, you know, every couple of weekends. But I 261 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: wish I could have been, you know, did something and 262 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: protected her because she was a good mom. She would 263 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: sit and sit and you know she wouldn't hurt nobody. 264 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: It's just just just ruck, you know. Like I said, 265 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: I have night married. I wake up, I wake up 266 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: just in a cold which shaking, and my wife waked 267 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: shaking and tell me to wake up and stuff, and 268 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:05,239 Speaker 1: it's it's horror. Would it surprised any of y'all? In 269 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: the letters that Carl Patton writes to me, he will 270 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: often say that he did not realize what he was 271 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: doing at the time until Melissa was murdered. And if 272 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: I could, I will even read part of one letter 273 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: to y'all if y'all want to hear it. But y'all 274 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: tell me if y'all want to hear it or not. 275 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: And if y'all don't want to hear from him, we'll 276 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: move on. Go ahead, go ahead, Yeah, I'll like to 277 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: hear what he had some of what he had rolled about. 278 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: I'm quoting now, as I have told you many times, 279 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: I didn't realize what hurt and harm I done till 280 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: we lost Melissa. Nothing I can say or do will 281 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: ever change forty five years ago. I have asked my family, 282 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: the families of the victims, and God to forgive me. 283 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: I know God will, and I understand why the victim's 284 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: family won't. I will never forgive Chris, so I do 285 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: understand their hate towards me. That surprises me. But I 286 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: you know, God doesn't give me the right to hate people. 287 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: He doesn't give me the right to take life or 288 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: give it. That's God's job. So as far as forgiving, 289 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: I don't know that I have. But I don't hate 290 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: anybody So, Cheryl, can I play devil's advocate for a second? 291 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: Oh Philip, please? So in this having set in that courtroom, 292 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: watching the lack of remorse in his eyes, and that 293 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: riler will grin on the side of his face as 294 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: the family suffered, my question would be this, in that letter, 295 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: is he trying to make himself look good so that 296 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: someone would help him? Or is he trying to play 297 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: on the sympathy of society looking forward to a day 298 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: when he thinks he might see daylighting in all I 299 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: can tell y'all is he has stated something similar in 300 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: numerous letters. And I mean, he wasn't a young kid, 301 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: It's not that, but he does try to convey that 302 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: that level of pain and that level of loss he 303 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: just never connected because he had never experienced it. And 304 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: I just wanted y'all to know at least he's saying it, 305 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: because again, you know, he has no reason to write 306 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: that to me over and over and over. He's not 307 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: up for parole again for years. Carl Patton and I 308 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: are not friends. Carl Patton is exactly where he needs 309 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: to be for the crimes that he committed. There's no 310 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: doubt about that. The government decided to make a deal 311 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: with Norma. That's got anohing to do with us either. 312 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: But again, I think when what was done to Melissa 313 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: came to light, there has to whether you have remorse 314 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: or not, there has to be at least some understanding 315 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: that what I'm feeling right now I did to somebody else. 316 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: So I hope he feels that. I hope he has 317 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: an understanding of that, and I do hope he's begging 318 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: everybody for forgiveness. But I agree with you, Philip, there's 319 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: no way for me to know whether or not that's true. Now. 320 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: When I asked him Roy about Dixie Mafia, he said 321 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: he wasn't a part of the Dixie Mafia. He said 322 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: that Fred used to like to tell people they were 323 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: in the Dixie Mafia to get status and to make 324 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: people fear them more. Do you think that's a possibility 325 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: or do you think they were absolutely part of the 326 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: Dixie Mafia. Well, I don't really know what, in my 327 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: heart I think was a part of it. You know, well, 328 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: they certainly operated like they were. I was just going 329 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: to say that just as an outsider. As men you 330 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: were talking as we started, when when the investigation of 331 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: their their mom first started the twenty five years later 332 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: when they started looking into the new DNA and such 333 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: that was brought up. Um, I don't know what he 334 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: was involved in. I wasn't. I wasn't around the family 335 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: back then. But I do know this the town that 336 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: we lived in at the time, I was friends with 337 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: a lot of police officers and the county, the sheriff 338 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: in the county in which we lived. And I have 339 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: found a note on my car. When this started, and 340 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, some rumors were circulating, I got several phone 341 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: calls at the house that told me to back away 342 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: and leave it be. Um. I don't know what they 343 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: were involved in, but those twenty five years later, I 344 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: received those kinds of things telling me to back away 345 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: and leave it alone. Well, that's a horse of a 346 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: different color. I wasn't expecting that, Philip. I'm just the 347 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: fun in law, I mean, And I was holding back 348 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: away and leave it And that's somebody that knew where 349 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: your car was and where your car was parked at 350 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: a certain time and a certain day, and who you were. Again, 351 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: as that outside insider a little bit a little bit. 352 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: Now here's what I would like to do. Now y'all 353 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: can talk about your mama. You can talk about Carl, 354 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: you can talk about normally, you can talk about Melissa, 355 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: you can talk to you know, talk about the justice system. 356 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: But each one of you just take a second and 357 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: tell me anything that you absolutely want to be sure 358 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: is owned this show. We'll just start with Philip, and 359 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: then we'll go to Carolyn, and then Renee, then Roy, 360 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: then Sylvia. Just because I didn't ask you don't mean 361 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: it don't need to be said. Maybe I didn't think 362 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: of the right question. Just like Philip, I would have 363 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: never asked if any of y'all have been threatened. That 364 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: hadn't crossed my mind yet, but now it has. So 365 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: tell me if you've been threatened. Tell me what your 366 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: favorite teacher at school, how she helped you through it. 367 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: Tell me when y'all met your spouses. Anything you want 368 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: me to know that you want to be sure is sad. 369 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: I have roy wife standing here beside me. Can we 370 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: take a second let her play something? Oh? Absolutely, hey, 371 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: yl I just want to say that Roy. They say 372 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: he looks the most like his mother. I believe that, 373 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: but it's it's scary at night to see. And I'm 374 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: a six foot tall, very strong man. Screaming out in 375 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: the middle of the night and it wakes me. I 376 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 1: have to wake him up. And I used to wondering 377 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: what let Mason do that? And then I found out. 378 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 1: I never thought I would ever meet someone, to really 379 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: be with someone who this tragedy has happened to. And 380 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: I see how it affects him and the rest of 381 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: his family. And it is sad that you understand it, 382 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: but you can't never feel what they feel because it 383 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: hasn't happened to you directly. But we do see the 384 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: ripple effect of it, and it affects all of us. 385 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: It's sad, but I just want to say this family 386 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: has taken me in and these girls, they are like 387 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: my sisters. I just close upon with them as I 388 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: do my own sister, Vicky. I appreciate it. If you 389 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: want to start first, Philip, Miss charl I asked you 390 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: if I could write a victim's impact statement from the outside, 391 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: and I wrote this on February the twenty second, after 392 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: our conversation the day prior, and it says I met 393 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: my wife in high school in Valley, Alabama, just a 394 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: strip of a girl, quiet and reserved. She had friends, 395 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: but not many as a new kid in school. After 396 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: high school, she went to college and I joined the 397 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: military where I would work where it would work out 398 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: that we'd come back together in a small town and 399 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: we met. Any year later, we were married and begin 400 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: our adventure into this new life. Although I knew her 401 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: mom was deceased, I didn't know all the details till 402 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: we had been married for a bit. One night, I 403 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: came in to find her crying and very emotional, and 404 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: she began to tell me and open up to me 405 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: about her early teen life and the guy that her 406 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: mom lived with, and how that he had a best 407 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: friend named Carl Patton. The wife began to tell me 408 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: the despicable things that he would say and do, and 409 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: how she always she was always afraid of Carl, and 410 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: he always had his gun and this briefcase with him 411 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: everywhere he went and did reputable things. The conversation revealed 412 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: how Lidy went missing around the seventeenth of December, and 413 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: when the news came they found her that she had 414 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: been murdered, found by duck hunters and her body was 415 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: floating in the river. It wasn't long as it worked 416 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: out that Joe Liddy's living boyfriend and Carl's best friend 417 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: was found on a playground, pretty much the same predicament. 418 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can put into words the 419 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: impact that the loss of her mom has had, but 420 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm a try like this. At age fourteen, the transitional 421 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: age from adolescence to team when a young girl needs 422 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: her mom for guidance and understanding, her mom was snatched 423 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: away by selfishness and pure meanness. Leady was not afforded 424 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: the chance to see her daughter graduate school, high school, 425 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: nor college. She was not president at our wedding. She 426 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: did not get to help planning her hair, her nails. 427 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: She didn't get to help pick out the dress. She 428 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: did not get to dance with her son in law. 429 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: And Leady was not there for the announcement of our 430 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: or the birth of our first child. She was not 431 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: allowed the opportunity to hold our son and daughter or 432 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: watch them grow up. Leady wasn't here to see what 433 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: a wonderful, loving and supporting Carrie person and educators that 434 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: her daughter has grown to be, what a loving grandmother 435 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: and a daughter she has become. And she wasn't given 436 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: the chance to meet me or to meet her build 437 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: and build a relationship with our grandchildren and watch them 438 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: grow up. And these are things that many other and 439 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: many other lives of lives, milestones and events that were 440 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: simply missed because, in his words, he thought somehow she 441 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: wronged him. That's she fits both ways. For thirty seven years, 442 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: I have been celebrating birthdays, Christmas, births, deaths, and watch 443 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: my wife endure and overcome those empty and lonely days 444 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: without her mom because of his disrespectful attitude or disrespected attitude. 445 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: I have walked through some dark valleys. I've listened to 446 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,239 Speaker 1: things that turned my stomach that she saw her and 447 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: endured in her teen years at the hand of a 448 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: selfish man who imposed his will on a child. I 449 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: see my kids and my grandkids and they ask questions, 450 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: having to learn about their grandmother great grandmother through pictures 451 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: and memories. And I watched the pain in my wife's 452 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: eyes as she tells them these stories about her, and 453 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: how the lights, how she lights up when she talks 454 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: about memories of her mom and the good times that 455 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: they had and the only ones. No, I don't harbor feelings. 456 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: I don't harbor feelings, I promise No. It does break 457 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,719 Speaker 1: my heart, it hurts my feelings, and yes, would I 458 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: or do I wish this paint on nobody? No? But 459 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: for twenty five years of not knowing, not knowing why, 460 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: not knowing how, not knowing who, and now that we 461 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: do know, and this pain has befallen him, I have 462 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: to ask myself this, does he really have remorse? Does 463 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: he actually think that one of us would have exacted 464 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: revenge not knowing where he was, who he was, that 465 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: he even had a daughter. And I would ask this question. 466 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: For twenty five years, he left Lyddy Matthew's family wondering 467 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: the same thing that he's wondering now, And the question 468 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: would be this, can you help him find justice for 469 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: his daughter so that maybe his mind will rest and 470 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: the words that he wrote to you would be true 471 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: in his life. Pray for the man every day. But 472 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: I'm a victim of abuse and his selfishness, and I 473 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: saw him. I guess that's all I'm gonna say. Philip, 474 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Ah, you got me a couple 475 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:53,479 Speaker 1: of times there, Philip. I'm sitting there thinking they're supposed 476 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: to be no crying in baseball or in police white ball. 477 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: Miss Cheryl, I'm sorry, no, it was it was fabulous 478 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: that I'll tell you. I just I just want to 479 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: say that I always preach this ripple effect, and you're 480 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: part of that ripple effect, and your children and your grandchildren, 481 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: they're that ripple effect that I talk about. You have 482 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: no idea how many people you've heard, how many teachers, 483 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: how many neighbors, how many people from different congregations, no 484 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: telling how many good friends of all of these people. Like, 485 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: this ripple effect is tremendous. And that was just beautiful. 486 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: So I appreciate that. All right, Carolyn, you're up if 487 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: you can. Honey, Well, I don't know where to start. 488 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: It's it's not been easy, and I currently, you know, 489 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: I am seeing a therapist because of all this stuff 490 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: that has built up in my life. I do hope 491 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: they'll find justice for his daughter. I know what it's 492 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: like to lose a child, and I wouldn't wish that 493 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: on anybody. But at the same time, God doesn't give 494 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: us the right to take life. He had no right. 495 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: No matter what people do. Two wrongs don't make a right. 496 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: Even if she had wronged him, it doesn't make a 497 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: right because God is the God is the giver and 498 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: taker of life, not man, and I have no hard 499 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: feelings either, because you know, God would not allow me 500 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: to harbor hard feelings against this person. And I'm like 501 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: my husband, I'm praying because you know, God gives everybody 502 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: a soul and we all are going to go to 503 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: heaven or hell one day, and you know, as a 504 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: follower of Christ, I have to pray for his soul. 505 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't make the hurt go away, It 506 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: doesn't make the pain go away. Only God is helping 507 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: me with this pain. He's helping me take one day 508 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: at a time and see and helping me overcome. And 509 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, God says will overcome hers through the word, 510 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: by his word, and so that's all I can rely on. 511 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: And I just pray they find a justice, and I 512 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: pray that He truly, truly, truly understands the pain that 513 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: we've endured all these years and all the things he's 514 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: stripped out of my life from taking my mother. Absolutely, 515 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: hope that was perfectly stated. Renee. It's mamma. I just 516 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: want to say that up, you know, but my sister said, 517 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: there's nothing that can take away the pain or the hurt, 518 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: and seems like of the older I get and I 519 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: know this is gonna sound weird, but seems like the 520 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,719 Speaker 1: older I get, the more I need my mom. I mean, 521 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: have I always needed her, but uh seems like the 522 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: older I get, the more I need her and she's 523 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: not there for me to take her advice. And the 524 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: sad thing about it to me is her grandchildren that 525 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: she's missed seeing and growing up enough. It's just, um, 526 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: I hope I'm not my sister. I do not you know, 527 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: I don't wish the hate, the pain and hurt on anyone. 528 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: And I just hope that one day that he just 529 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: really truly does understand the hurt, the pain he's caused. 530 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: And I want to thank you for having this so 531 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: we can we can all tell our you know, say 532 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: what we had to say. And and that's just one 533 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: thing I want to say, is that I just want 534 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: people know that my mom or mother was the best 535 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: good hearted and hard working woman that you live with, 536 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: who you'd ever meet. Thank you, Renee. That was perfect really. 537 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: But luck I say, they say, Mom, she needn't never 538 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: she never seen my daughter, my my grandkids, you know, 539 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:13,760 Speaker 1: messed all of the birthday, Christmas and stuff, and Michael 540 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: out I lived with this every day. I messed my 541 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: mom every day. Mom was good to me and and 542 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: she would have been a wonderful grandmother. My my daughter 543 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: and grandkids don't know what they're messing because Mom would 544 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: have been would have ben't did anything for him, and 545 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: it's it's just been our and uh and the justice system. 546 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: I think they failed us, you know. I think I 547 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: think they should. I think they should to give give 548 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: Carl Pattern a death penalty, and I think they should 549 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: have given a wife life without parole. Now I hate 550 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: that about his daughter, you know. I don't I want 551 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: to wish that when nobody to lose that kid, you know, 552 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,439 Speaker 1: But but for Carl Pattern, I wouldn't never forgive the man. 553 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: I don't like the man and our novel forgiving until 554 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: the day did die. And we thank you for having 555 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 1: us on your podcast because I've been wanting to get 556 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: this awful off my chat for a while. I thank 557 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: you for that. You are more than welcome. Thank you, 558 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: Roy Sylvia. And I just want to say, first of all, 559 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if they listen, but thank you to 560 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: Bruce Jordan and to Tracy far for coming down, you 561 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: know after twenty five years too. And I know it 562 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: takes a community of police officers, but they are the 563 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: two that were there for us and Bruce's inclination to 564 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: you know, open the case back up. So I want 565 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: to say thanks to them both, if they're listening. But 566 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, I was thirty one years old during the trial, 567 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: the same age that Mom was when she passed, and 568 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: at the time I already had two kids that she 569 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: never got to see, and that's all I could think 570 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 1: about here in the trial. You know, you deprived me 571 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: from this, deprived my two sons, and Mama, if she 572 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,919 Speaker 1: were here, would have her first great great grandchild this Maay. 573 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: She missed all of that. I don't know if I 574 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,760 Speaker 1: can forgive him, but I, like my sister, I don't 575 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: hate anyone, but I'll never forgive him. And we can't forget. 576 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: We remember every birthday, every holiday, all our kids birthdays 577 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: because she's not there. I can't thank you all enough 578 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: for being here, and I can't thank you enough for 579 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: talking about your mama and you know, sharing with us 580 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: who she was and how important that is for everybody 581 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: to here. And and I will tell you I believe 582 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: she's a part of each one of you and all 583 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: that y'all have done with all of your children and grandchildren, 584 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: the children that y'all touched in the neighborhood, Carolyn, at 585 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: your school. All of you have done remarkable things for 586 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 1: other people, and that is because of her. There's no doubt. 587 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 1: So is Lyddy Evans alive and well right now, spread 588 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: and love and joy, ain't no question, There's no question, 589 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: And all of y'all this is the most important thing 590 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: to me that I know would be important to her. 591 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: Y'all are all together, and you've got Philip and the 592 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: other husbands and the other wives, and that's remarkable. So 593 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: you know, I believe in family, honey, and y'all's is 594 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: tight and it's wonderful, and there's a lot of tears today, 595 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: but y'all are in the same house right now, and 596 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: that's a powerful thing to me. So I am going 597 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: to end Zone seven the way that I always do 598 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: with a quote from somebody in my Zone seven. This 599 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: comes from doctor Eric Hickey, and he says that, I quote, 600 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: every person can make a difference, and every person should try. 601 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: Stephanie Roper twenty two wrote this in her diary two 602 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: days before she was raped and murdered, and doctor Hickey 603 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: wrote to me on September twenty eighth, two thousand and seven, 604 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: and simply said, do these cold cases well. As I 605 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: speak to the children of Lyddy Evans, they are making 606 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: a difference. They are nurses, they are teachers, they are parents, 607 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: they are grandparents. They are good, non violent, loving and 608 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 1: caring citizens. And I appreciate each one of them being 609 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: with me today. Y'all. Thank y'all again, and thank you 610 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: for allowing me to honor your mother. I'm Cheryl McCollum, 611 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: his own seven. You know the voice, you know that 612 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: slow Southern cadence he has. You know, there's nobody better 613 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: to dissect this case than Joe Scott Morgan join us 614 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: next week as Joe Scott, or as we affectionately call him, 615 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Death systematically helps us understand exactly what happened to 616 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 1: Melissa Wolfenberger.