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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, March thirty first, and

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Speaker 2: guess what, everybody, we have a stack knight of headlines.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, our most favorite forensics expert is here.

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Speaker 2: He's also the host of the hit podcast body Bags,

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Speaker 2: and he's going to break down a lot of forensics

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Speaker 2: for us. Number one, big controversy surrounding the Charlie Kirk case,

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Speaker 2: and some new developments surrounding ballistics. So Joseph, this is

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Speaker 2: right up your alley. Also, a brutal double murder finally

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Speaker 2: has a suspect three decades later thanks to some serious

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Speaker 2: DNA plus Joseph Dugger. We were talking about him last night.

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Speaker 2: He is out on bond after pleading not guilty to

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Speaker 2: child sexual abuse charges. And also we're going to unpack

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Speaker 2: a little bit more about this young death dentist from

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Speaker 2: Belarus who was Epstein's girlfriend at the time of his death,

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Speaker 2: who he also left most of his estate to so

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Speaker 2: we definitely want to know a little bit more about her.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as always with Body Movin and

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and of course Joseph Scott Morgan here to

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Speaker 2: keep us all in line.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, Joseph, Hey, thanks for having me again my favorite

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Speaker 3: night of the week.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, if you guys are just joining us,

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Speaker 2: we also have producer Taha with us, and then Sam

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Speaker 2: and Adam are in the control room. They are just

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Speaker 2: waiting by the phone eight eight eight three one crime

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Speaker 2: call us live anytime or you can always leave us

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Speaker 2: a talkback. So, Body, I mean, seriously, where do you

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Speaker 2: want to begin? There's so much to discuss to start with,

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 4: I mean, this is still all over the place, right,

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Speaker 4: and I think that there's a lot of clickbaity kind

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Speaker 4: of things happening. So I think it's such a great

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Speaker 4: timing to have Joseph here to kind of break this.

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Speaker 4: The ballistics down right are for exactly so here's a

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Speaker 4: nitty gritty, right Charlie Kirk, he's the conservative influencer and

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Speaker 4: the Turning Point USA founder, right. Well, remember he was

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Speaker 4: shot and killed on September tenth of twenty twenty five

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Speaker 4: while he was speaking at that Utah Valley University in Utah.

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Speaker 4: He was giving you know that he was debating college

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Speaker 4: students so on that like he always did. And Tyler Robinson,

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Speaker 4: he's twenty two and he's been charged with that murder

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Speaker 4: and prosecutors are seeking the death penalty in that case.

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Speaker 4: So Tyler Robinson's lawyers are asking to postpone his May

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Speaker 4: hearing because there's some key ballistic tests from the ATF

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Speaker 4: and the FBI that aren't finished yet and could be

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Speaker 4: crucial for his defense. Okay, the ATF report could not

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Speaker 4: conclusively match the bullet recovered from Charlie Kirk's autopsy to

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Speaker 4: the rifle allegedly tied to Tyler Robinson.

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Speaker 2: Right, So that's the cruc that.

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Speaker 4: Situation, right, And so all the headlines, all the headlines

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Speaker 4: are ballistics don't match the gun and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: And here's the thing.

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Speaker 4: And I think Joseph's going to be key here and

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Speaker 4: pitching for me because I'm the layman. But it's not exculpatory, right.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't say, it doesn't say this gun is excluded

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Speaker 4: from matching the rifle. It says the ATF couldn't match

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Speaker 4: it like conclusively. Is that right, Joseph, I have.

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Speaker 3: That right, You're absolutely spot on. It's not that the

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Speaker 3: weapon itself or the dynamics of that weapon can be excluded.

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Speaker 3: The problem is is that the round that was removed

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Speaker 3: from Charlie's body could not be matched up ballistically to

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Speaker 3: test fired rounds that would have been pumped through that

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Speaker 3: weapon by the ATFU at their you know, at their facility,

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Speaker 3: at their ballistics facility, which by the way, is one

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Speaker 3: of the finest in the world, and they.

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Speaker 5: Could do it.

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Speaker 3: I can go into a technical explanation, okay if if

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Speaker 3: you wish, Yeah, here.

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of here for it too. Even before we

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Speaker 2: go further, Joseph, just to jump in, this is one

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Speaker 2: of those cases that we actually don't cover it so

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Speaker 2: so much here because there hasn't been enough you know,

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Speaker 2: either autopsy information unless we've covered it with you, Joseph,

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Speaker 2: you know, but it is one of those cases that's

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Speaker 2: it's everywhere, and I think we get a lot of

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Speaker 2: talkbacks and d ms about it, and sometimes we sort

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Speaker 2: of stay away from it because it almost feels a

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Speaker 2: little controversial. We all witnessed this, you know, young man

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Speaker 2: who has dedicated his life to informing others and sharing

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Speaker 2: his beliefs get assassinated on television. I think we're all

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Speaker 2: still reeling from that. And then there's been this controversy

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Speaker 2: since then, and so you know, we try to stay

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Speaker 2: out of as much of that as possible, but this

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Speaker 2: has been everywhere today. I can't tell you the amount

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Speaker 2: of dms and messages that I have gotten specifically about

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Speaker 2: this maybe being a mismatch or suddenly maybe Tyler Robinson

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Speaker 2: is not the guy. And you know, if that's the case, boy,

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Speaker 2: that would be you know, terrible to be wrongly accused.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time, if this is just clickbait,

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Speaker 2: that too would be very terrible, because this trial is

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Speaker 2: really on track for May well until today.

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Speaker 4: The thing I think clickbait is is maybe to the

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Speaker 4: report does say that it doesn't match, okay, but it

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Speaker 4: also doesn't say it's exculpatory, and that's the key thing here.

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Speaker 4: And I think people that maybe aren't used to reading

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Speaker 4: court documents and lawyeres, you know, like reading how they speak,

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Speaker 4: and might might view this as like this big smoking gun.

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Speaker 4: And I hate to use that word I'm not trying

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Speaker 4: to be inappropriate, but I think people think this is

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Speaker 4: a smoking gunman. I really don't think it is right.

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Speaker 4: This is defense language. We see it in a lot

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Speaker 4: of cases. And you know, the reports aren't even done yet,

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Speaker 4: and you know lawyer Tyler Robinson's lawyers say that once

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Speaker 4: they get the reports, because they're not completed, that's why

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Speaker 4: they're asking for it to be postponed. It could contain

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Speaker 4: exculpatory evidence. They're not saying it does, they're saying it could, right,

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Speaker 4: But as of right now, the ATF cannot conclusively say

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Speaker 4: that it came from this weapon.

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Speaker 3: So there is no ballistic fingerprint currently where they can

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Speaker 3: do that. And I've got an explanation if folks want

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Speaker 3: to hear it, and you have to first off, just

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Speaker 3: kind of a basic primer. We have to understand the

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Speaker 3: anatomy of a projectile, a fired projectile, and in this

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Speaker 3: particular case, we're talking about thirty out six, all right,

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Speaker 3: thirty out six rifle round. It is a high velocity

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Speaker 3: round and with these rounds, rifle round, the lead. People

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Speaker 3: know that lead is associated with a projectile, okay, but

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Speaker 3: lead is not all that's there. So the lead is

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Speaker 3: encased in. I've actually got a three hundred right here.

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Speaker 3: The lead is contained within this copper jacket, and literally

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Speaker 3: this is what it means. So just think about putting

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Speaker 3: on a jacket, okay, And so contained within the jacket

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Speaker 3: is the body of the projectile, which in fact is lead.

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Speaker 3: So the copper jacket itself surrounds the projectile and it

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Speaker 3: becomes part of the projectile as well. And as it

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Speaker 3: travels down range coming out of the barrel, it's spinning.

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Speaker 3: We all know about lands and grooves, and we're looking

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Speaker 3: for striations on the surface of the projectile. Now, people

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Speaker 3: I think, believe that bullets remain or projectiles remain intact

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Speaker 3: upon impact. They don't. If a projectile strikes a bony structure,

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Speaker 3: must say like a circle spawn okay, which is very robust,

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Speaker 3: it can fragment. And based upon what I am hearing

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Speaker 3: at this point in time, the fragmentation of the round

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Speaker 3: and specifically the jacket that will contain all of these

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Speaker 3: little striations that you match up in the barrel, this

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Speaker 3: thing has been destroyed. So the projectile itself is fragmented

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Speaker 3: on the bottom end, like when you actually take the

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Speaker 3: projectile out of its seating okay, in the live ammunition,

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Speaker 3: and you pull it out at the bottom beneath what's

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Speaker 3: called the neck of the projectile. After it releases, there's

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Speaker 3: the base. That's where you're going to pick up a

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Speaker 3: lot of your data. The thing has been blown to pieces.

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Speaker 3: So what they're looking at, folks at home, just imagine

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Speaker 3: little be shards of brass and I'm talking about tiny.

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Speaker 3: Greatest ones are probably I don't know in its greatest

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Speaker 3: length might be two centimeters, okay, it's greatest link. And

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Speaker 3: you've got multiple of these things. Well, there's no matchful

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Speaker 3: striations on the surface of that soft brass. So what

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Speaker 3: they've done and they are continuing to do because my

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Speaker 3: sources are telling me that this ATF sampling has been

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Speaker 3: pushed now to the FBI, which I'm more of an

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Speaker 3: ATF guy, because they've got the premiere ballistics lab. They're

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Speaker 3: going to test fire over and over again to send

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Speaker 3: the actual weapon that they've collected, and they will fire

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Speaker 3: actually dig this the same exact AMMO weren't over again

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Speaker 3: try to see if they can find anything to match

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Speaker 3: it up. MMM.

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Speaker 4: So it's like a it's almost like a not a puzzle,

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Speaker 4: but they're looking for the same markings in the rounds

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Speaker 4: that they're firing, and you are absolutely, from my understanding

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Speaker 4: and sourcing your spot on. The FBI is conducting a

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Speaker 4: second comparative bullet analysis and a bullet led composition test

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Speaker 4: to determine if the bullet originated from the same firearm.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, okay, so so yeah again, if you're not

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Speaker 4: used to reading these I mean these this legal eese

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Speaker 4: in court documents and and whatnot, of course the defense

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Speaker 4: is going to be like, okay, listen, the bullets don't match.

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Speaker 4: You know, I've seen this almost in every case that

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Speaker 4: has been then the firearms have been involved in almost

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Speaker 4: every single one. And Joseph, what would you say ballistics

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Speaker 4: in terms of accuracy? Like I know, like a lot

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Speaker 4: of things in forensic sciences, like you guys might say

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Speaker 4: that's junk science or this is no this is you know,

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Speaker 4: good science.

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Speaker 2: What would you say ballistics?

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Speaker 3: Ballistics rods? That's an excellent question, body ballistics rods right

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Speaker 3: in the middle. Okay, Okay, there there are even people

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Speaker 3: out there that question fingerprints. Okay, so you've got all stripes,

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Speaker 3: you got all stripes out there, well, particularly in light

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Speaker 3: of DNA, because DNA is now the gold standard for everything. Uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, they want that kind of certainty, okay, and

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Speaker 3: traditionally uh you know, for instance, and you guys are

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Speaker 3: well aware of this. We've talked about this before. They've

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Speaker 3: they've almost totally kicked bide mark to the curve. Now. Oh,

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Speaker 3: it's one of those things. It's like you're kidding me right. Well,

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Speaker 3: and some people think about this with blood deposition, to

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Speaker 3: believe it or not, let's fatter interpretation.

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Speaker 4: Well DNA, Oh I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no so blood so projectile or firearms examination.

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Speaker 3: Really it's right in the middle, I think, because there

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Speaker 3: are multiple multiple ways to tests. You want to do

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Speaker 3: chemical compositions on the rounds because rounds are made of

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Speaker 3: specific things. You're finding trying to find those those elements

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Speaker 3: as well as gunshot residue, which is a very hard science.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's very firm science. Uh, you're looking for

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Speaker 3: certain elements there. But with the ballistic composition itself or

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Speaker 3: the ballistic fingerprint if you will love that term, because

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Speaker 3: you are talking about, you know, the striations which are

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Speaker 3: unique to that weapon. But if I can just interject

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Speaker 3: one more piece of evidence that they're going to have here,

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Speaker 3: they're actually going to have surgeens notes that will track

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Speaker 3: the wound. Uh, they're going to have autopsy notes. And

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Speaker 3: here's the big thing that's going to be very powerful

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Speaker 3: in court. They're gonna have x rays and those x

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Speaker 3: rays are going to be put up on a big

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Speaker 3: board and they're going to be displayed. And if what

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Speaker 3: is going on, if what is going on that I

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Speaker 3: think is going on, you're going to see see what

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Speaker 3: we refer to as a radio opaque or lead storm,

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Speaker 3: and it'll pop on that screen. You'll see this fragmented

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Speaker 3: ground that's just all over the place. And people they're

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Speaker 3: not going to have to see bloody photographs all though

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Speaker 3: I'll have to see is that radiograph that doesn't specifically

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Speaker 3: tied back, but it gives you a sense of the injury. Sustein.

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Speaker 4: Well, you mentioned DNA. Oh please please, no, no, no, go ahead.

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Speaker 4: You mentioned DNA being the gold standard, and people are expecting,

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Speaker 4: you know, like that level of scientific accuracy when it

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Speaker 4: comes to prosecuting somebody, and I listen, I agree, I don't.

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Speaker 4: I think prosecution should be light shined on it. We

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Speaker 4: should get see all the evidence, everything but there is

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Speaker 4: DNA in this case, right, So there's DNA that's consistent

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Speaker 4: with Tyler Robinson that was found on the trigger, the

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Speaker 4: fired cartridge casing, and the two unfired cartridges. Although the

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Speaker 4: defense notes that multiple individuals DNA was present on some

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Speaker 4: of the items, which only complicates the analysis. But there

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Speaker 4: is DNA in this case, and they will be presented

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Speaker 4: with that in court, And I think that's pretty inculplatory, right, Yeah, And.

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Speaker 2: Even if there's multiple strains of DNA, that doesn't discount

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Speaker 2: that his was one of them. That's pretty common also, it.

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Speaker 4: Doesn't, right, but it could give reasonable doubt though, right,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: Like that's what defense is. Defense is not necessarily seeking

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Speaker 3: truth here. Everybody needs to disabuse themselves of this. They're

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Speaker 3: looking there. The ultimate thing for them is to find

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Speaker 3: reasonable doubt and to plant that in the brains of

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Speaker 3: the jury members. That's what they want to do. All

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Speaker 3: it takes is one, you know, are there any questions

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Speaker 3: do they have the right person? And of course, with

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Speaker 3: everything that's floating around right now, that's out there that

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Speaker 3: you guys had alluded to earlier, Yeah, I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: it's certainly something to think about and let me if

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Speaker 3: you like that one, let me tell you one more.

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Speaker 3: I guarantee you that as the thing evolves, it goes

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Speaker 3: down the line. The attorneys will talk about painting of

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Speaker 3: the pool as well. Because of all of the data

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Speaker 3: that has been coming in, we have seen this over

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Speaker 3: and over again. We saw it with Idaho, We've seen

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Speaker 3: it just a nauseum, and in this case, we always

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Speaker 3: think that the last case was the most high profile thing.

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Speaker 3: I know, baby, you ain't seen nothing yet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, these headlines are pretty jury tainting in my opinion.

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Speaker 4: And that's just my opinion because they're very misleading. So listen,

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Speaker 4: stick around when we come back. After thirty six years,

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Speaker 4: the brutal Lovers Lane murders finally have a suspect, and

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Speaker 4: forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan is sticking around to break

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Speaker 4: it down for us. Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body Moven, and of course we have

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Speaker 2: Joseph Morgan in the house. Joseph Scott Morgan, I should say,

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Speaker 2: our very favorite friends expert and host of the hit

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Speaker 2: podcast Body Bags, and we're unpacking a lot about the

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk case. May he rest in peace. We know

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Speaker 2: that his family must still be suffering. We're all collectively

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Speaker 2: really waiting for this trial because I think we're incredibly

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Speaker 2: connected because we were all witnessed to this horrific crime. So,

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Speaker 2: speaking for myself, it really affected my DNA quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: and I think I speak for so many. So we're

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Speaker 2: just you know, getting through some of the clutter. A

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Speaker 2: lot of the information that we get or questions that

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Speaker 2: we get from listeners is what about the exit wound

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Speaker 2: in Charlie Kirk's neck? Number one? And you know number two?

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Speaker 2: Is it possible that this is a lot of hoopla?

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Speaker 2: Or are we just to stay the course? And all

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Speaker 2: of this is very normal. For example, the autopsy and

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Speaker 2: its release. Body and I were speaking about this yesterday.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's particularly uncommon for an autopsy not

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Speaker 2: to be released prior to this, you know, major trial. Correct.

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Speaker 2: So those were just two items that we'd love to

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Speaker 2: hear your opinion on, Joseph to put inquiring minds at ease.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, Well, let's talk about the autopsy report. I've

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Speaker 3: been covering live trials for a long long time now

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Speaker 3: with Core TV May They Rest in Peace and Long

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Speaker 3: Crime Network in particular and so and plus working for

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Speaker 3: a medical examiner's office, those reports are just not released.

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Speaker 3: It's it is the exception as opposed to norm Some

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Speaker 3: people you know, would do that. The line share of

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Speaker 3: people do not. Matter of fact, government agencies manytimes have

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Speaker 3: to be compelled even post trial to release certain things.

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Speaker 3: It is not surprising that an autopsy report has not

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Speaker 3: been released. Here's another one. To the best of my knowledge,

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Speaker 3: I still don't know who the forensic pathologist is that

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Speaker 3: did the autopsy. You know, it would probably be relatively

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Speaker 3: easy to narrow it down. Also a bit of digging

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Speaker 3: on my own. We still don't know specifically where the

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Speaker 3: autopsy was performed. Keep in mind Utah is seriously it

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Speaker 3: is one of the few states that is a pure

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Speaker 3: medical examiner state. There has not been a corner in

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Speaker 3: Utah since in nineteen seventy two. The people that are

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Speaker 3: managing their medical legal system there are actually board certified

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Speaker 3: forensic pathologists, so you have to calculate that into your mathematics.

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Speaker 3: Here there are a lot of people. I've heard many

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Speaker 3: people try to draw the like some kind of conclude

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Speaker 3: between the way Kennedy was handled and the way Charlie Cook.

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Speaker 3: Nothing could be further from the truth. Those people were

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Speaker 3: buffoons relative to Kennedy. None of those people had any

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Speaker 3: kind of background in forensic pathology. They were hospital pathologists

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Speaker 3: at best, and military doctors. These individuals are independent individuals

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Speaker 3: that work for the State Medical Examiner's Office for Utah.

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Speaker 3: So you're not going to have it. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: can cripe about it all you want, but you're not

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Speaker 3: going to have it. I'd be very surprised. Now, that

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean that it couldn't be released by somebody. We've

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Speaker 3: certainly seen that happen.

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Speaker 4: Ye yes, like a leak.

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Speaker 3: However, yeah, through a leak. But I just y'all, I

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Speaker 3: just don't see it.

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Speaker 2: Happening, understood. So that's not unusual because that gets a

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Speaker 2: lot of chatter. You know, a lot of conspiracy theories

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Speaker 2: kind of center around the fact that there hasn't been

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Speaker 2: an autopsy report released and the exit wound is up

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Speaker 2: for conversation, which again would potentially be answered within an

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Speaker 2: autopsy report. So I think the reality is we have

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Speaker 2: to wait and see for trial, right, and even the

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Speaker 2: headlines today aren't particularly unusual, is that the official narrative

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Speaker 2: on that.

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Speaker 3: No, no, they're not. You know, to quote one of

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Speaker 3: the great philosophers of all time. I've probably said this before,

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Speaker 3: but you know, Eddie Murphy. You know, oh, they take

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Speaker 3: a mile, give a rope, they think they're cowboy all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, everybody's a ballistics expert and a forensic

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Speaker 3: science expert. And have a seat, sit back, watch see

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Speaker 3: what you can learn and what you can glean. If

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Speaker 3: you if you discerned something that seems out of the norm,

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Speaker 3: whatever your norm might be, however you measure forensics, then

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Speaker 3: you know, talk about it, have a discussion about it.

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Speaker 3: But you're not going to have enough data at this

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Speaker 3: point in time to draw any solid conclusions from a

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Speaker 3: scientific standpoint. And you know, you guys know where to stand.

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Speaker 3: You know, a firm belief sign. All of us fails,

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Speaker 3: all to turned back to the science. What does the

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Speaker 3: science tell you? Over and over again, I don't I'm

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Speaker 3: not into speculation, you know, I want to see what

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Speaker 3: the reports revealed. We go back to the ballistics reports.

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Speaker 3: I want to know if they reveal, and I want

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Speaker 3: to know what this forensic pathologist saw and not just

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Speaker 3: relative to the wound. I want to know about the

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Speaker 3: track of the wound because that can go to trajectory

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Speaker 3: and that's a whole other report. Because there will have

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Speaker 3: done a crime taine reconstruction report, there will be something

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Speaker 3: that will be published relative to that, an assessment out there,

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Speaker 3: and there's been a lot of back and forth over that,

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Speaker 3: so we need to have the reports in front of us.

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Speaker 6: Joseph, is that a separate person who who gauges what

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Speaker 6: the trajectory is?

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Speaker 2: Or is that the medical examiner.

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Speaker 3: It's two pieces. So it's an excellent, an excellent question.

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Speaker 3: Because what we see in the terminal event in the

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Speaker 3: more okay, which is where you have an entrance wound,

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Speaker 3: we're going to do probes with that. They'll be very

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to say non invasive, but we're very careful.

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Speaker 3: There'll be a trajectory ride that is generally placed into

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Speaker 3: the insult itself photograph. It'll be photographed what we refer

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Speaker 3: to as insight to which means in place, and you

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Speaker 3: can see the trajectory ride issuing forth from the wound

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Speaker 3: and it'll give you an idea as to in the

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Speaker 3: terminal phase at least of what their trajectory was. Now,

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Speaker 3: the other piece to trajectory is going to be the

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Speaker 3: crime scene reconstruction. You know, because we heard a lot

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Speaker 3: about range, didn't we do? You guys remember that when

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Speaker 3: they were talking about well what range was this firewall

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Speaker 3: fire from? And people just kind of gobbled this up

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Speaker 3: as well they should, you know, is this weapon? Is

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Speaker 3: this weapon effective at this range? How much skill does

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Speaker 3: it take to pull off a shot like this from

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Speaker 3: a static position, firing at a relatively static target. I'm

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Speaker 3: not trying to, you know, diminish Charlie Kirk by saying that,

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Speaker 3: but I'm just talking about from a practical, scientific standpoint.

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Speaker 3: It's not like he was running, all right. He's in

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Speaker 3: kind of a static position. So what is going to

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Speaker 3: be there rendering? I want to know as much as

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Speaker 3: everybody else, you know, I want to know what they've recreated,

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Speaker 3: because I can tell you you're going to see technology

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Speaker 3: at play here in this case, more so than maybe

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Speaker 3: anything in recent memory, because of probably the Pharaoh system

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Speaker 3: they have set up that maps everything, thousands of photographs

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Speaker 3: that this thing is taking, and also the digital reconstruction

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Speaker 3: that will be you know, accessed through through that technology.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be you know, it's going to be

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Speaker 3: quite amazing to see because they're going to throw everything

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Speaker 3: at this. You know, you've got at least two agencies

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Speaker 3: with the FEDS involved here atf and the FBI, not

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Speaker 3: to mention the state authorities as well, not to.

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Speaker 2: Mention a general public too. We're all so interested. By

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Speaker 2: the way, if you're just joining us, you're listening to

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Speaker 2: True Crime tonight, I'm Stephanie here with Courtney and Body

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Speaker 2: and of course Joseph Scott Morgan is breaking down the

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Speaker 2: forensics and the Charlie Kirk case in the new development

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Speaker 2: surrounding ballistics in Tyler Robinson's defense. You know, again, we

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Speaker 2: all witnessed this assassination, and I guess it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit like Luigi MANGIONI, right, another thing that we all

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Speaker 2: saw this year or last year, I should say, that

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Speaker 2: was so public. You know, we witnessed a man being

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Speaker 2: shot in New York City. I think we all feel

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Speaker 2: hyper connected to these trials as well because of that.

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Speaker 4: Now, and we absolutely do.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and as answers come out, we will of course

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Speaker 6: keep you updated This was a great kind of forensic touchstone, Joseph,

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Speaker 6: So thank you. And I think now body you are

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Speaker 6: going to talk about Lover's Lane.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so this finally we have an an update in

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Speaker 4: this case. Right, So what happened with the Lover's Lane case?

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Speaker 4: Let me like set the table for this, right. So,

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Speaker 4: this happened in August of nineteen ninety and the victims

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Speaker 4: in this case are Garland who went by Andy okay,

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Speaker 4: so Andy Atkinson he was twenty one, and Cheryl Henry,

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Speaker 4: she was twenty two, and they were found murdered in Houston,

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Speaker 4: Texas after a night out at the bar. I mean,

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Speaker 4: twenty one and twenty two year olds going to the bar,

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Speaker 4: totally normal, right, Well, these brutal killings remained unsolved for decades,

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Speaker 4: despite leads, all these sketches and preservation of DNA evidence.

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Speaker 4: So last week, after nearly thirty six years, Floyd William Parrott,

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Speaker 4: he's sixty four years old now, was arrested in Nebraska

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Speaker 4: for those murderers. DNA evidence linking him to multiple cold cases.

429
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 4: By the way, it's very scary, and now now the

430
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 4: prosecutors are warning that he might have additional victims again

431
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 4: his name is Floyd William Parrett. Okay, So Andy and

432
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 4: Cheryl they went to buy you mama's bar, all right.

433
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: They were with Cheryl's sister.

434
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 4: Cheryl's sister left around ten forty five and that was

435
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 4: the last time anybody saw these two. The next day,

436
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 4: August twenty third, Again in nineteen ninety, Cheryl was reported

437
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 4: missing after she didn't show up for work. Later that day,

438
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 4: a security guard noticed a white Honda Civics sitting for

439
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 4: hours in a cold sack, and Cheryl's person driver's license

440
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 4: were inside. So police discovered Cheryl's body, unclothed and partially

441
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 4: covered with wooden boards, in a wooded area near that

442
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 4: cul de sac, and she had been sexually assaulted. In

443
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 4: About one hundred and fifty yards away, they found Andy,

444
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 4: who was seated against a tree and his hands were

445
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 4: bound with rope around his neck, and both were killed

446
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 4: via throat slashing. It I mean, it was a very brutal,

447
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 4: very brutal murder. So yeah, now finally we have a suspect.

448
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 2: So think about that. I mean, what a brutal You

449
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: use that word so perfectly bodied. This is one of

450
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: those brutal crimes. And imagine decades later, the science is

451
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: setting is setting these victims memories free in a way, right, Like,

452
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: can you imagine a justice for their family members? Joseph,

453
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: this is so up your alley.

454
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,479
Speaker 3: Can you imagine all the people that are out there

455
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 3: right now that thought they got away with things?

456
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 2: Yes, in their boots?

457
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:54,479
Speaker 3: Yes right, Because it's like every single day there's another

458
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: one of these cases. And I can only imagine people

459
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 3: out there that thought that it just blew away in

460
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 3: the wind, they would never get caught. Welcome to the

461
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: brave New World, y'all. Well that's what happened in this case. Yeah, yeah,

462
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: right right.

463
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 4: So in ninety six, six years after the murder, the

464
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 4: suspect in this Lover's Lane case, his name is Floyd

465
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 4: William Parrott, he was named as a suspect in a

466
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 4: sexual a separate sexual assault case. Okay, Well, he claimed

467
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 4: the encounter was consensual and because he was accused, they

468
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 4: took DNA from him, right, But the case was dismissed

469
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 4: after a grand jurny grand jury declined to indict him.

470
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 4: But they had the DNA, now right, they have his DNA,

471
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 4: So he must have been sitting there the whole time

472
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 4: for the last thirty years waiting for that knock of

473
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 4: the door, right, because they know he knew they took

474
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 4: his DNA. So in twenty twenty four or late in

475
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 4: late twenty twenty five, investigators revisited the nineteen ninety six

476
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 4: sexual assault case where they took his DNA and they

477
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 4: submitted it through to COTIS and they also reviewed a

478
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 4: tip from nineteen ninety six years prior naming this guy

479
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 4: as a suspect in the Lovers Lane's murders. So they

480
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 4: got his DNA and they had this tip now, right,

481
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 4: and they're like, oh, so in twenty twenty six, DNA

482
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 4: from the nineteen ninety six case match the sample they

483
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 4: took from the autopsy they did on Cheryl and a

484
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 4: June nineteen ninety unsolved sexual assault case. So he was

485
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 4: out there causing a lot of havoc, do a lot

486
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 4: of different people, and all those DNAs matched. It's remarkable.

487
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it really is. It truly is. And look

488
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: at tip of the cap to the police as well,

489
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: because the forensics people, because think about, you know, where

490
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: were you and all those years ago, where were any

491
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 3: of us all those years ago? And since that time,

492
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: they preserved all of this fragileological evidence so that they

493
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 3: could go back and literally breathe life into this case

494
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 3: through the DNA molecule, right, and they you know, I

495
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: don't know, I guess I'm being very overly theatrical, but

496
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 3: I always imagine that it's like resurrecting the debt because

497
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: you have their basic code there, right, and you have

498
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 3: this specter that's out there that was kind of faceless

499
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: and nameless, and now you have this. And this goes

500
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: to a bigger point. What are the cases is this

501
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: subject associated with that are out there? Because I got

502
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: to tell you, y'all, in my experience, at least with

503
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 3: serialized events, you don't have people that go from zero

504
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: to one hundred like that. There's generally a slow roll.

505
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: You have people that approach this and then they do it.

506
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: You know, and we've all heard the profile. You know.

507
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 3: They start off as peepers, panty sniffers, creepers. You know,

508
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 3: they'll break into people's houses and then leave, and then

509
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 3: all of a sudden they cross then and they do

510
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 3: something horrible, and then it escalates from that. This guy

511
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: just did not start at one hundred miles per hour.

512
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 3: There are other cases out there and there. I could

513
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 3: guarantee you somewhere out there, they are a coldcation unitstead

514
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: of working, they're looking at this guy anything they have

515
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: percent tie him back biologically. They're on it.

516
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely. We have Joseph Scott Morgan with us, hosted the

517
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: hit podcast Body Bags. He's breaking down all the forensics

518
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: for us and we've been encouraging you guys to leave

519
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: us talkbacks, specifically for Joseph. And by the way, you're

520
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: doing a great job. Let's go to one right now.

521
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 7: Hi, True Crime tonight. This is April from Akron. I

522
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 7: just wanted to say thank you so much for my

523
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 7: coffee mug. I absolutely love it. I have a question

524
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 7: about the Teppy case. It does on the internet. They're

525
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 7: not one hundred.

526
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 8: Percent sure who died first.

527
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 7: Do you feel that he shot and killed the husband

528
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 7: first and then the wife to make sure he could

529
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 7: get away with both?

530
00:31:59,000 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 8: Thanks have a.

531
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 6: Great, great question, Yeah, April, that's a really great question.

532
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 6: And in case you're not super conversant in the case,

533
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 6: the Tepe murders that April's referring to are Spencer and

534
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 6: Monique Tepe, this lovely couple from Ohio. There were found

535
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 6: shots to death inside their home back in December of

536
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 6: last year, and the autopsy results recently revealed appears that

537
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 6: it was particularly a violent attack, with many gunshot wounds

538
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 6: to both Joseph any thoughts on what April last.

539
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that you know, when you begin to

540
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 3: think about a husband and his wife in bed, if

541
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 3: the individual has been sizing them up, and trust me,

542
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 3: it appears that this individual had been. I think that

543
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: probably logic would dictate that you would go after the

544
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 3: mail because your target is her. Ultimately. Now, I don't

545
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: know if there's any taunting involved with that, or any terrorizing.

546
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 3: I don't think that there was, but you would want

547
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 3: to make sure if your goal is to eradicate both

548
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 3: of them, who's going to pose the biggest threat. Well,

549
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 3: default position would probably be male. But in the forensics world,

550
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 3: we would have to have very specific scientific data in

551
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: order to and also I guess probably circumstantial data like

552
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 3: witness things in which we don't actually have in this case,

553
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 3: kind of narrow it down as to who may have

554
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: died first. I think that that's going to be a

555
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 3: big mystery unless somebody who shall remain nameless grows a

556
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 3: conscience all of a sudden and rolls over on this

557
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 3: and talks about procedurally how this went down. I hate

558
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: sounds so cold about it, but that's the reality of it,

559
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: because that's what people are wanting to know about the

560
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,239
Speaker 3: Teppi Tepee killings, and it is absolutely brutal. It is

561
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 3: everything that you can imagine as far as a horror

562
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 3: show that took place in that bedroom.

563
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: I feel like he's going to confess this is just

564
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: a personal opinion, not a fact, and it's based on

565
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: just my gut. But I feel like he didn't try

566
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: very hard after the murders to not be caught, and

567
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: I think it's a very different thing once you're facing

568
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: life behind bars, if not more so. Yes, of course,

569
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 2: people become very innocent, very quickly, but it seems as

570
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 2: though the evidence against him is pretty insurmountable.

571
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one of the most glaring things and

572
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 3: I think you guys may have mentioned it when I

573
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 3: was with you all, the kind of the loping that

574
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: he did going down that alley, where it's just exactly

575
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 3: very nonchalant, like he didn't have a care in the world,

576
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 3: and you know, at that moment, Tom, you know, mission complete.

577
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 3: So we'll see how it plays out. I have a

578
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: strong feeling he's going to lean into mental health stuff

579
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 3: more than likely. That's kind of the default position, it

580
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: would seem, And anytime, the more egregious the crime, the

581
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: more they lean into mental health health issues. And that's

582
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 3: the cynic in me. But maybe it's surrealist.

583
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, And I wonder just the fact that

584
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 2: he was a medical doctor also would sort of counter

585
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: That would be counterintuitive to say that you were so

586
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: mentally ill. Meanwhile, he was able to practice at such

587
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: a high level. He did have a ding against him.

588
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 2: There was a lawsuit pending in the land of malpractice

589
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: that you know, maybe was an inciting incident. We're just

590
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: guessing this has been speculating.

591
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 3: But how many listen, I don't. I don't. It would

592
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: be if we if we got five physicians, to get

593
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 3: ten physicians, we're going to find a statistically significant number

594
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 3: of those ten that have some kind of pending. That

595
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 3: we're such a litigious society, So I don't true. That's

596
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 3: all that has that's never held water for me in

597
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 3: regards to this case. You know that people are looking

598
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 3: for something to try to explain one in the world.

599
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 3: He eradicate a mama and a daddy.

600
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 4: Well, I think he's doing I think he's I think

601
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 4: he's not. I think he's gonna clam up. I don't

602
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 4: think he's gonna confess at all. And the reason I

603
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 4: think that is because he was a surgeon. You know,

604
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 4: these these surgeons, Listen, they're smart as heck, right, and

605
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 4: any huh.

606
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: He's not that smart. The guy was like walking on

607
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 2: CT camera behind scientifically.

608
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 4: True. But yes, he's crime stupid, he's street stupid, but

609
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 4: he's book smart, right exactly. And he holds people's lives

610
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 4: at his hands every day on the surgical table. And

611
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 4: I think that can give some psycho paths the feeling

612
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 4: of a god complex of some kind. And I think

613
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 4: he thinks he's above it all and he's not going

614
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 4: to say anything.

615
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: You know, the surgeon piece of it. That's a very

616
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: interesting point. That's a very astute point. Not that all

617
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 2: surgeons are committed, no, no, no, However, you know there

618
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 2: is maybe in an extreme case like this one. That's

619
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: a very good point. Yeah.

620
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 4: I don't know, We're gonna have to see, but let's

621
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 4: do a let's do another talkback.

622
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 9: Hey, it's cricket calling from Connecticut, and you're talking about

623
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 9: when Brian Kolberg went into the bank, I mean into

624
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 9: the DMV. And I agree with Body, like nobody wears

625
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 9: giant GI glove to fill out a deposit slip or

626
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 9: a check or whatever. You take those things off and

627
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 9: you sign your papers. Blah blah blah, Like Body is right,

628
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 9: that's a red flack.

629
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 4: I think I would sad to me.

630
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, but I have to say.

631
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 6: I mean I can walk around and see people with

632
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 6: dogs wearing sunglasses and a baby carriage, and okay, that's like,

633
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 6: I don't know, there's just maybe I give the world

634
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 6: a really big pass and I'll raise an eyebrow, but

635
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 6: will not go beyond that in general.

636
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: And I don't know, maybe I should. But I went

637
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: back today and watched it again through that did you

638
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: really lens? Yes, multiple times, and like listen, when I'm

639
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: watching it through Body's eyes, Yes, it looks like he's

640
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: looking everywhere and the glove seem completely ridiculous for sure.

641
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 3: However, kind of I'm going to say her name, I'm

642
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: going to say cricket, cricket Connecticut, cricket from Connecticut. I

643
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 3: got to tell you something. He looks like he has

644
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 3: balloon hands. You know, when I saw the video, it

645
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 3: looked cartoonish to.

646
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 2: Me, slightly ridiculous.

647
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 3: Really, you know what I was really thinking, you know,

648
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 3: as I was watching the same when I'm going to

649
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 3: the dark place, forgive me, I was thinking, this is

650
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: just I'd like to break it down to ours. You know,

651
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 3: this is not too long after this had all gone down.

652
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: Was that car cleaned yet? You know, the one that

653
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 3: he went out and he had to go get the

654
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 3: mileage out of it? I thought of that, was that

655
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 3: car cleaned yet? Had he had he gone through all

656
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: the all mascinations of trying to you know, clean it

657
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: for Scott a little? At that point, they were listen,

658
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: dig this, you want a real insight? They were still

659
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 3: working the scene.

660
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

661
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 3: Now I can't testify as to how good they were

662
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 3: working the scene, but scene was still being worked at

663
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: this point in time. And I really wonder it was

664
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 3: he kind of using this opportunity dip his toe in

665
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 3: the water just to see take a sniff of air,

666
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: if you will, to see how things are outside. Is

667
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 3: this the first time he had ventured out? I have

668
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 3: no way of knowing. I'm just I'm just kind of

669
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 3: throwing that out there. Considering the proximity in time to

670
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 3: when the masker happened.

671
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, I must be the most gullible person,

672
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: frankly alive, because again, looking at it in retrospect, I

673
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 2: see exactly what body was saying. However, for me personally,

674
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 2: if I was standing behind him online and he had

675
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 2: to cockta weird gloves on, I would have maybe noted

676
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: that he had these weird gloves on and that he

677
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: was an odd guy. I definitely would not have jumped

678
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: to this might be the guy that just murdered four

679
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: people standing in front of me at DMV. His demeanor

680
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: just seemed too capable of not panicking, I guess. And

681
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 2: again I think it speaks to me in the world,

682
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: and it frightens me.

683
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 4: I think that Here's what I notice myself doing this,

684
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 4: Like when I'm somewhere, like if I hear like a

685
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 4: car backfire, I look at my watch and I'm like, Okay,

686
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 4: it's nine eighteen, right, I heard gunshots, and I make

687
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,919
Speaker 4: him note of it. I do that all the time,

688
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 4: things like that. And so had I seen Brian Coberger

689
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 4: or anybody at the DMV with nobody else. He's really

690
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 4: the only one there, so he's the only one I

691
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 4: can really look at, right, And then I saw him

692
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 4: walk to his car. I would have been like, oh,

693
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 4: he's driving a white Hondai. I would have just I

694
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 4: would have noticed these things because it's a small town,

695
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 4: it's small area, right, And then this big murder happened,

696
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 4: and like a few days later they say we're looking

697
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 4: for a white Unde. I have been like, yeah, maybe

698
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 4: it was that guy at the DMB, So why would

699
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 4: you I'm not saying.

700
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 2: The white Hundai if it hadn't been noted out in

701
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: the world, like I hear that, but we hadn't heard

702
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 2: about the white car yet.

703
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 4: I know I'm saying, I don't know that. I would

704
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 4: have been like at that moment, oh, this is the killer.

705
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 4: But in six days from now, when they say, hey,

706
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 4: we're looking for a white Houndai, I would have been like, Oh,

707
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 4: there was that weird guy at the DMB wearing those

708
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: gloves and he went out to a white hunt.

709
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 2: He was getting his slice.

710
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: When mentioned mintioned Moscow, yeah kind of yeah, I mean,

711
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: and you could see there was there was something and

712
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 3: maybe I'm reading into it. It just seemed appreciable to

713
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 3: me at that moment, Tom, And again, I'm looking at

714
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 3: it through a lens. Now, that's really unfair to judge

715
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: it by because I didn't data that is just in

716
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 3: my skull, you know, after all these years, now you

717
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:56,479
Speaker 3: know so.

718
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: And keeping you guys are not aware to Joseph appears

719
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 2: in all of our Idaho projects, so the Idaho massacre

720
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: he's featured in and his tremendous in it since really

721
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 2: since season one, and then of course the Idaho student murders,

722
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: which you can also catch on Peacock. Joseph is the

723
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 2: premiere forensics expert who really kind of talks us through

724
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: a lot of these forensics. So we're all very close

725
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 2: to it. Again, Joseph, maybe same for you. This was

726
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: the first time in the most I'd ever heard Brian

727
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: Coburger talk like just casually, let's incur with that.

728
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 3: Other than the traffic stop, you know.

729
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: Yes, not much, which was also fascinating at the time.

730
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 6: Well, there is one more talk back I'm actually itching

731
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 6: to get to, so let's go ahead with that.

732
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 10: Hey, True Crime, It's me in Texas. I have some

733
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,919
Speaker 10: questions for Joseph Scott Morgan. I love body bags, what

734
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 10: he remember members about his first death and investigation and

735
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 10: what it was like walking into that crime scene for

736
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 10: the very first time. And I watch a lot of

737
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 10: crime shows. I know you're not a fan. However, with

738
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 10: those true crime shows and everything, what's your biggest rub

739
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 10: that you have on what they get wrong?

740
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 2: M good question, Joseph, you're not a fan of true

741
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 2: crime shows. Since let's discuss how dare on our crime shows?

742
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 2: How does that track? No?

743
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 3: Immediately, no, nothing goes to fictionalized crime shows.

744
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: Oh, I see, I see.

745
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 3: I despose CSI And the reason I do is because

746
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 3: it does a disservice to people that practice in the

747
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: field in since that they will take one character and

748
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 3: they will make them an amalgam of a bunch of

749
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 3: people that have worked, representative in the field, that have

750
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: spent their entire life and a ballistics expert, a forensic anthropologist,

751
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 3: a tox cologist, and all of a sudden, they're an

752
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 3: a malcolm of one person. It's it's it's intellectually lazy,

753
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 3: and it's a disservice to people. So that's you know,

754
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 3: in the fictional space, it wears on me. I can't

755
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: bear to watch it or any show like that. I

756
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 3: just don't. I'd rather watch travel shows with my beautiful pride.

757
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,479
Speaker 3: But with that said, yeah, I will watch true crime

758
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 3: stuff now, documentaries, that sort of thing, and of course

759
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 3: anything that we do with.

760
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 4: What's your favorite? Who's your favor?

761
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, that's that's my thing. What was the

762
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 3: other part of the question, me from Texas? Your first

763
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 3: me from Texas?

764
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 6: So did I? Which I love the confidence it's me?

765
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 6: But uh, it was your first crime scene?

766
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: And excuse me? That was April, of course.

767
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 3: Oh okay, April April.

768
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 4: So it was what do you remember about your very

769
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 4: first death investigation?

770
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 3: Oh? Wow, okay, I can break this down in two

771
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: parts of The first homicide I'd ever been around was

772
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 3: not in the field. It was actually in a morgue

773
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 3: and it was a guy that had been beaten to

774
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 3: death by his own brother with a basement on mat

775
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 3: And I remember looking at the guy and I was

776
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 3: getting ready to assist with the autopsy, and it was

777
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: really weird. I don't remember if I ever had this

778
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: happen since that time, but there was enough superstition still

779
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 3: within my body that I looked at the guy's face

780
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 3: that had been beaten to death, who, by the way,

781
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 3: for years, had been beating his brother, and the brother

782
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: just he was. The brother was a little guy, and

783
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 3: he had just had enough, beating him to death in

784
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 3: the front yard of the family home with a bat.

785
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 3: I remember looking at the guy and thinking, this guy

786
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 3: really looks evil to me, and so I'm super imposing,

787
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 3: you know the kind of the narrative now, I can

788
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 3: tell you this. The first death scene that I ever

789
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 3: worked was, unfortunately, somebody that had taken their own life,

790
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 3: and I remember being terrified. And the reason I was

791
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 3: terrified is there was so much stuff that I've been

792
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 3: trained that I had to do. And anybody can identify

793
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 3: with this. You can take this and apply it to

794
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: any kind of work you might be involved in. If

795
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 3: you're a kid, which I was, I had no business

796
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 3: doing what I was doing. Way too young. My hair

797
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 3: was still really dark, so back then had a lot

798
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: fewer wrinkles, and I could remember things, and I remember this.

799
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 3: I remember being terrified that I was going to screw

800
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 3: something up. I was going to break it, or I

801
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: was going to screw up evidence. Because we had always

802
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 3: been taught that every death, even what appeared to be

803
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: cases where people have taken their lives are homicides until

804
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 3: proven otherwise.

805
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 6: Well, thank you as always, Joseph, Scott Morgan, and stick around.

806
00:46:53,320 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 2: We have a lot more to get into. Welcome back

807
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true crime

808
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 2: all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with my two

809
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: favorite ladies, Body Movin and Courtney Armstrong, and of course

810
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 2: we have Taha, our producer of course in the hot

811
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: seat and Sam and Adam waiting by the phone to

812
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: take your calls. Eight eight eight three one crime. Big.

813
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: Thanks to Joseph as always for joining us. And he

814
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 2: just has a great way of breaking down sometimes really

815
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: scary things or very big details forensics lye speaking and

816
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 2: making it very easy to understand. So thank you again, Joseph. So,

817
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: this Dugger's case, I know we've been talking about it

818
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 2: all week, but it continues. Courtney, where do you want

819
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: to begin with this?

820
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 6: So there, listen, Joseph Jugger has been in the news

821
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 6: for all the wrong reasons. And the name right might

822
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 6: ring a bell from the tl SEE show back in

823
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 6: the day, Nineteen Kids and Counting.

824
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: Joseph was one of those nineteen kids.

825
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 6: So he's thirty one now and he has been accused

826
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 6: of sexually assaulting a brace yourself, a nine year old

827
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 6: girl nine years old, and this happened multiple times during

828
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 6: a family vacation in Panama City Beach, Florida. Now this

829
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 6: was back in twenty twenty and we'll get into why

830
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 6: it's now just hitting the news. So this case, it

831
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 6: makes him the second Duggerson facing criminal charges involving underage victims.

832
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 6: His other brother Josh, back in twenty twenty one, he

833
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 6: was convicted for having child pornography. And Josh also this

834
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 6: was talked about pretty widely, is said to have abused

835
00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 6: five underaged girls, four of whom were his sisters. Well,

836
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,439
Speaker 6: just today, and I'm feeling a little crazed about this

837
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 6: judge's judgment, But just today, Joseph Duggar again accused of

838
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 6: molesting a nine year old girl. He was released on

839
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 6: six hundred thousand bond. He pleaded not guilty to two

840
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 6: counts of child molestation. And there's strict pre trial conditions

841
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 6: that bars unsupervised contact with minors. But it doesn't seem

842
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 6: like there's much else. Like I'm surprised this family. I

843
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 6: have to imagine there are some means, what do you

844
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 6: guys think about him getting released on bond.

845
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: I was surprised, Yeah, I was really surprised at I mean,

846
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 2: a nine year old.

847
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 4: My biggest fear in something like this is I don't

848
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 4: think he's going to contact the victim or anything like that.

849
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 4: I don't, But I do worry about people harming themselves,

850
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 4: you know, rather than face the jury, so to speak.

851
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 4: I always worry about that, you know. And I would

852
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 4: not have released him personally, but I'm not judged. So

853
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 4: maybe that's why I'm surprised.

854
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: I'm with you on that body, I completely agree, and

855
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 2: he is one of those flight risks. Also, I mean,

856
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 2: this is a guy that's going to have to face

857
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 2: the music, and what music would he possibly want to face?

858
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 6: Here?

859
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 2: He's already pleading not guilty. There was an early assertion

860
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 2: that he had made a confession to this, but now

861
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 2: it appears that he is saying he is not guilty

862
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 2: of these charges. His wife, will remember, was also brought

863
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 2: into custody and released. She was charged with endangering a minor,

864
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 2: allegedly by you know, some kind of lock on the

865
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 2: doors or something, and I don't know, something just seems

866
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: to be not quite right within the dugg Or home.

867
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: And did you guys hear the conversation was? It was

868
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 2: pretty widely released in the media. Between it was a

869
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: prison phone call between the two of them, husband and wife.

870
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 2: He's und like bars his when Hendra's calling her husband

871
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 2: and is basically checking in on him, and I don't

872
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 2: know for some reason, like broke my heart a bit.

873
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: He sounded fine, right, that's what he was essentially saying.

874
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 2: But his wife again, who had also been arrested and

875
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: now released, she sounded so submissive and just hope you're

876
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: eating okay, And it didn't seem like there was an

877
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 2: understanding of what the accusations really were. Yeah, it's like

878
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: we're concerned about eating and food and these are really

879
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 2: horrific allegations. Okay.

880
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 6: That reminds me so much of the Long Island serial Killer,

881
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 6: which all of us have seen the documentary on him,

882
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 6: and in the documentary you see his.

883
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 2: Their divorce.

884
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 6: So his ex wife, however, still quite close and she's

885
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 6: having a phone call and it's all about, oh is

886
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 6: it Hamburger Tuesday?

887
00:51:58,640 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 2: And how's it going.

888
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 4: It reminds me of Warren Jeffs. Do you guys know

889
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 4: who Warren jeffs Is. He was a whole FLDS guy

890
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 4: who was trusted and well his wives and children and

891
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 4: girlfriends and whatnot. We're all calling him and whatnot. Oh dear,

892
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 4: you know, I hope you're doing. It reminded me very

893
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 4: much of that, like almost like we don't subscribe to

894
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 4: like modern man law. Do you know what I mean? Like,

895
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 4: m hmmm, I don't know. It just that's the vibe

896
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 4: I was getting from it.

897
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 2: It's an interesting thing. And like the statistics really would

898
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: suggest that there has to be some learned behavior in this.

899
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: So where are they learning the behavior? Is this something

900
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: that's being learned because of the eldest son? Is this

901
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 2: something that's learned? You know? And again I'm not making accusations.

902
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: I would never want those accusations out there. But something

903
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 2: in the family or something in what the family is

904
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,720
Speaker 2: following is I think up for a conversation, because again,

905
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 2: these are horrific crimes to have two brothers plus four

906
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 2: other family members be victims of these crimes. I mean,

907
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 2: to the math of the nineteen that's how many.

908
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 4: Six you mentioned, like learned behaviors from like the older brother.

909
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 4: And I think it's important to know for people out

910
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 4: there to know that. Like Josh Dugger, the older brother

911
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 4: who was convicted in twenty twenty one. His charges stem

912
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,479
Speaker 4: from these downloads that he was doing at a used

913
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 4: color dealership that he worked at. Investigators found that he

914
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 4: used a hidden and partitioned password partition, password protected partition

915
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 4: on it's our drive on a computer to access and

916
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 4: download that material, those those child pornography materials, So it

917
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 4: was password protected, it was hidden, and it was a

918
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 4: partition on his hard drive. He knew what he was

919
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 4: doing was wrong, so it as far as like them

920
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 4: like oh hunky Dory didn't know it's bs like one

921
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 4: hundred percent. Knew that what they're doing is wrong. And

922
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 4: when he was confronted by the father, Joseph Dugger, the

923
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 4: guy that just got arrested, he apparently told the father

924
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 4: of the victim, Yeah, in what I did, I didn't

925
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 4: have pure intentions or I'm paraphrasing, but it.

926
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: Was something like that. Though it was like kind of

927
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 2: in a confession, but it was also sort of odd,

928
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: an odd way of saying, yes, I did that. It

929
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 2: was an unpure intention. I'll say it's a nine year

930
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 2: old that is really unpure and unfounded. And I'm so

931
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 2: glad you brought that up, body, because yes, having those

932
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: specific firewalls or whatever is required to be able to

933
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 2: have child pornography stashed on your computer is very sophisticated.

934
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 2: So for him to know that this is something that

935
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: really needs to be under lock and key is in

936
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 2: and of itself a huge, you know, suggestion that there's

937
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 2: something not quite right here. Again, I don't know what

938
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 2: the answer is, but I do think it's.

939
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 4: Worth further exp I do too, and like him, and

940
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 4: again Joseph, their names are so similar, so heays had

941
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 4: to say, Joseph the guy who just got arrested, him

942
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 4: saying to the father, like, and my intentions weren't pure

943
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 4: to me. That's that's admitting, like, yeah, what I knew

944
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 4: what I was doing was wrong, it wasn't pure right,

945
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 4: just like with his older brother in a partition tar drive,

946
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 4: like they both knew that what they were doing was inappropriate, wrong, illegal,

947
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 4: and moral everything, and they continued to do it anyway.

948
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 4: So something is there.

949
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 6: I don't know, but absolutely, and I have to say,

950
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 6: the reason I'm probably the most as I said, incensed

951
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 6: about this judge is that there's no electronic monitoring for

952
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 6: the now released Joseph Duggart.

953
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 2: That's right.

954
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 6: And this is even though he resides in another state.

955
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 6: So the charges are in Florida and he lives I

956
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 6: believe in Tennessee, that's right. Excuse me, in Arkansas. Yeah,

957
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 6: and there's no electronic monitor And who is to say

958
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 6: that he is not a flight risk?

959
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: I mean, we obviously can even tell that Kendra, his wife,

960
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 2: is very supportive. It doesn't appear that they seem alarmed.

961
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 2: They were slightly talking in code on their prison phone

962
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 2: call as well, which again I find interesting. I wouldn't

963
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 2: really know how to pull that off. If I was

964
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 2: talking randomly to my husband who has been now accused of,

965
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 2: you know, molesting a nine year old, I don't know

966
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 2: that I would care if he's eating and sleeping, Okay,

967
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 2: Like that would be a very different conversation. So all

968
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 2: of it just really my spidey senses are.

969
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 3: Real.

970
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 4: No, I'm with you, I'm absolutely with you. And I

971
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 4: mean they have some means about them too, right, Like

972
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 4: it's not like they are struggling financially or anything like that,

973
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,919
Speaker 4: and that can only lend them to being a flight

974
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 4: risk in my.

975
00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 6: Opinion, exactly, and we'd I have to presume that Joseph

976
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:07,320
Speaker 6: Dugger will not be living at his home because or

977
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 6: at least he will not be living with his children

978
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 6: because the court filing emphasizes that he can have zero

979
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 6: on supervised contact with minors under eighteen, which includes his

980
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 6: own children, which again you'd surmise, then he's not living

981
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 6: in the family home. He's living elsewhere without monitoring.

982
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: It's saying to me, yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.

983
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: And it didn't particularly sound like mom and dad of

984
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 2: the Douggers were alarmed either, even in their public statement.

985
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: Again I'm reading into this. I'm sure they have nothing

986
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 2: but love in their hearts, but it didn't sound like

987
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 2: they were freaked out. There was like a very difficult

988
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 2: time for them. And thank you for all the well

989
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 2: wishes and the love. I would be off the chains

990
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 2: if somebody that I was married to or my child

991
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,040
Speaker 2: was being accused of sex crimes. But the second son

992
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 2: is doing this after one of them had already I

993
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 2: molested my daughters. I mean, come on, this is like

994
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 2: buckstops here, And as a mom, I would really be

995
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 2: looking in the mirror, and I don't wish that on anybody,

996
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: But I don't know. This is one of those cases

997
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 2: that I think we're going to hear a lot more about.

998
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, I mean I do.

999
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 6: So in sort of contrast to what I And it

1000
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 6: sounds like you guys agree deem as sort of the

1001
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 6: lax bail, letting him just free to roam the United

1002
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 6: States or the world. The charges could be. Their charges

1003
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 6: are incredibly serious. So Joseph Dugger, he faces two felony charges.

1004
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 6: The first one is leude and lacivious behavior molesting a

1005
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 6: victim under twelve. Well, that carries what's called a life

1006
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 6: felony designation under Florida law, and we looked into it,

1007
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 6: and in Florida, a life felony it's one of the

1008
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 6: most absolutely severe criminal classifications and punishable by life in

1009
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 6: prison or a term of up to forty years, along

1010
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 6: with fines. But so the charges are very serious as

1011
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 6: well they should be as well they should be.

1012
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 2: And by the way, even in Idaho there was recently

1013
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,919
Speaker 2: a law passed. I want to say even last week

1014
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 2: that I know this sounds insane, but the firing squad

1015
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: is back in action, and I'm pretty sure Idaho has

1016
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 2: now passed a law for sexual predators that would be

1017
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 2: sentenced to a firing squad. O. I know that sounds

1018
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 2: extreme as I say that out loud.

1019
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, I didn't hear about that one.

1020
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 2: Interesting.

1021
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 6: Well yeah, so we obviously, as with all, will keep

1022
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 6: you up to date on this. And if you're just

1023
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 6: joining us, this is true crime tonight and we've just

1024
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 6: been talking about Joseph Dugger, who has made bail for

1025
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 6: being arrested for molesting a young girl. And I would

1026
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 6: be remiss if I did not say if you were

1027
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 6: listening earlier to forensic expert Joseph's Morgan, anyone who wants

1028
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 6: to hear more of him going deep diving into all

1029
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 6: sorts of crimes in the most fascinating and listenable way,

1030
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 6: you should really catch his hit podcast, It's Body Bags.

1031
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 6: His YouTube channel is body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.

1032
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 6: Very easy And anyway, I just wanted to say that

1033
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 6: to our friend and now I think you had a

1034
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 6: really quick update for us body Yeah.

1035
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 4: Nancy Guthrie, today's two months. It's two months since her

1036
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 4: disappearance and again she's eighty four years old. She's the

1037
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 4: mother of Today co anchor Savannah Guthrie, and she's still missing.

1038
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 4: Where's Nancy right? Nancy was last seen at her Tucson,

1039
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 4: Arizona home on the evening of January thirty first. I

1040
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 4: mean it's been two months now. Authorities have not identified

1041
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 4: a suspect or a clear motive, and the investigation continues

1042
01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 4: with no major breakthroughs. Savannah recently did an interview and

1043
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 4: revealed some new details about the investigation, and I kind

1044
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,439
Speaker 4: of wanted to talk about those very quickly because it's thin.

1045
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 4: It's thin, but it's there's some meat here, they said.

1046
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 4: Law enforcement reported that her home was immaculate, with no

1047
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 4: evidence of any forced entry or assault. Here's the interesting thing.

1048
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 4: I think the back doors. She has three doors on

1049
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 4: the back of her house, and their doors with knobs.

1050
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 4: They're not like sliding lass doors. The back doors were fround, popped,

1051
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 4: propped open. And remember the guy that was behind her

1052
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 4: said that there was some activity on his cameras and

1053
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 4: in the middle of the night or something picked up

1054
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 4: something on the back of his house and that would

1055
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 4: be the house that faced or the back of the

1056
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 4: house would face her back of the house, right, So

1057
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 4: I thought that was very interesting. And remember his dog

1058
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 4: alerted too, right, So maybe there's something there, you know,

1059
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 4: maybe there's something there. Savannah Guthrie, she's been absent since

1060
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 4: Nancy's disappearance. She know she's going to return to the

1061
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 4: Today Show in a few days April six, So we

1062
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 4: wish her all the luck. Like I mean, it's incredibly

1063
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 4: difficult for her. I'll be tuning in just to so

1064
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 4: some support. She has publicly expressed concern that Nancy's disappearance

1065
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 4: may be related to her own like fame, her own visibility.

1066
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 4: It's too much to bear to think about that. I

1067
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 4: brought this to her bedside. I just want to say,

1068
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 4: I'm so sorry, mommy.

1069
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: There's no way of knowing that too. I just hope

1070
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 2: she does not sleep with that on her mind every night.

1071
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 2: That is, it's not something that she can control for Savannah.

1072
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 6: Well, listen, after the break, we're going to get into

1073
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 6: the mystery woman at the center of Jeffrey Evstein's life.

1074
01:02:51,600 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 6: True Crime Tonight.

1075
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been

1076
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with

1077
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: Courtney and Body and of course we have Taha, Sam

1078
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 2: and Adam with us as well. So we've been talking

1079
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: about a lot tonight, the Duggers and that ongoing case.

1080
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 2: By the way, just before we put a cap on that,

1081
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 2: it is accurate that the Idaho legislation is pretty major

1082
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 2: against certain sexual abuse crimes. And yes, as of July first,

1083
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, this just happened last week. The goal

1084
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 2: is to have that become a capital punishable crime. And

1085
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 2: if in fact you're found guilty in the state of

1086
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 2: Idaho of certain sex abuse crimes against children, then you

1087
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 2: could face a firing squad. If the legal injection is

1088
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 2: not available, and we've talked about this before, sometimes the

1089
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: ingredients and certain lethal injections in this state of Idaho

1090
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 2: are not readily available, so they've turned to the firing squad.

1091
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: We kind of went down this rabbit hole because of

1092
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 2: Brian Koberger, the accused and now convicted person behind the

1093
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 2: Idaho student murders. At one point, had he gone to trial,

1094
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 2: it was going to potentially be a death sentenced trial

1095
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 2: at some point, and he would have had to face

1096
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: a firing squad, which we all thought was just aric

1097
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 2: beyond words, But here we are. Apparently it's very effective.

1098
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 2: We've also talked to Joseph Scott Morgan about this and

1099
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 2: apparently it's the most effective manner of capital punishment anyway,

1100
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 2: Just an aside that these, you know, I don't think

1101
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 2: creditors are really.

1102
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 4: Constitutional challenges.

1103
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, there does seem to be some that have to

1104
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 2: It does seem to be in opposition to some constitutional law.

1105
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 2: But an interesting move forward.

1106
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So what do we go?

1107
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 6: Well, Okay, I was gonna say, I have a tonnage

1108
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 6: of information on Karina Shuliac.

1109
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 4: Oh I'm a dentist, right, Okay, that's.

1110
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 2: Right, come on, get us caught up by Karna.

1111
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 6: So if Karina Juliac's name does not ring a bell,

1112
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 6: she is about thirty six years old. Now, she's a

1113
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 6: dentist from Belarus and she was, by the way, it's

1114
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 6: for those who don't exactly writ and she Karina was

1115
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:37,919
Speaker 6: sex trafficker Jeffrey Ebstein's long term girlfriend and reportedly last

1116
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 6: person to speak with him before his suicide back in

1117
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 6: twenty nineteen. Now not so much has been known about her,

1118
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 6: but we have some information.

1119
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 2: So Karina juliact.

1120
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 6: She moved to the United States at about the age

1121
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 6: of twenty back in two thousand and nine, and over

1122
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 6: the course of time, Epstein used his wealth and influence,

1123
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 6: and not just to support her family, not just to

1124
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 6: fund her Columbia University dental school tuition, which is its

1125
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 6: own sort of messy web, but also to arrange a

1126
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 6: twenty thirteen marriage of convenience, not to himself but to

1127
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 6: another woman, and that was in order to secure Shuliac's

1128
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 6: US residency. And we've definitely spoken about that. She was

1129
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 6: the primary beneficiary of Epstein's estate. However, and I don't

1130
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 6: really see this changing. Authorities have blocked the inheritance and

1131
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 6: it's being directed towards a victim's compensation.

1132
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 2: We're talking one hundred million dollars plus. By the way,

1133
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 2: numbers are staggering, the estates, you know, all of this

1134
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 2: real estate. Remember there was a brother involved, you know.

1135
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 2: But somehow Karina, who many of us did not know about,

1136
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 2: somehow became this great, this great girlfriend. She was twenty

1137
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 2: when she met Jeffrey Epstein and went on to get

1138
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 2: her dental degree, which was controversial. And I think it's

1139
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,959
Speaker 2: worth noting because you know, we remember all of those

1140
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 2: college scams when people were paying to get their kids

1141
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:18,439
Speaker 2: into particularly prestigious universities, Jeffrey Epstein did the exact same

1142
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 2: thing to Karina to get her degree at Columbia, and

1143
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 2: this has been wildly reported about that he basically had

1144
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 2: to get her in by either getting favors or paying

1145
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 2: off whomever. So here's this girl who gets to go

1146
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 2: get her dental degree and does and is a little

1147
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 2: bit behind the scenes of Jeffrey Epstein because again, she's

1148
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 2: not the most photographed person we know Geelane Maxwell front

1149
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 2: and center. Karina's kind of this like lone wolf from

1150
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 2: where exactly. She has sort of an unknown background all

1151
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 2: things considered in this the idea that he's getting passports

1152
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 2: for people under these you know, kind of odd circumstances,

1153
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 2: a fake fraud marriage between two women, This is rich

1154
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 2: given where we are even right now with immigration, et cetera.

1155
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 2: It's just so maddening to me that somehow this is

1156
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 2: okay and she lives to tell the tale. And again

1157
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 2: no accusations are being brought against her. Why is she

1158
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 2: not being brought before Congress to answer questions? She's the

1159
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 2: last person he called. Surely she knows more than we

1160
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 2: know about Jeffrey Epstein. How did they meet so quick?

1161
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 6: Backstories so Kreini Shualak. She again was born in Belarus.

1162
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 6: She did study dentistry at the Belarusian Medical University for

1163
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 6: four years, so.

1164
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. And then it was at the

1165
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 2: age of twenty.

1166
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 6: So she had four years of dental school under her

1167
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 6: belt at the age of twenty. In two thousand and nine,

1168
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 6: she moved to New York for one second. She was

1169
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 6: sixteen at dental school. I mean, this girl's like a genius.

1170
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know any four years of dental

1171
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 2: school under her belt by age twenty, so this is

1172
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 2: a child prodigy of sorts. It could be.

1173
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 6: But also the US is a little bit outside the

1174
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:10,480
Speaker 6: scope of most countries in terms of you are absolutely

1175
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 6: sorted into what you're going to be doing anyway.

1176
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 2: But maybe she is a genius.

1177
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 5: And she was studying.

1178
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,640
Speaker 11: She was just studying dentistry at that time, so she

1179
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:27,719
Speaker 11: hadn't received any level of degrees, if you will understood exactly.

1180
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 6: So here we are, it's two thousand and nine, she's

1181
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 6: in the US. It was in the spring of twenty eleven.

1182
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 6: So Jeffrey Epstein has now been formally convicted of child abuse,

1183
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 6: child sexual assault, and we don't know the name, but

1184
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 6: there was a Russian woman who apparently had brought several

1185
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 6: Eastern European women into Epstein's orbit. And the introduction, yes,

1186
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 6: this introducer and Epstein a photo of Karna Juliac and said,

1187
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:06,719
Speaker 6: again this is noted in the files.

1188
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 2: The friend is free tomorrow after three pm.

1189
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 6: Karina will probably want more than the three hundred dollars,

1190
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 6: more than three hundred to do what you like.

1191
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 4: Okay, stop, pause, pause, So this introducer is like a pimp.

1192
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 4: It sounds like literally, yes, all right, and she's bringing

1193
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 4: around Eastern European women for Jeffrey, like he sends pictures

1194
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 4: and picked the one you like, and he picks the

1195
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 4: one he likes. And okay, she's free after three but

1196
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 4: she's gonna need more than three hundred. That's what it

1197
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 4: sounds like to me. That's what it says.

1198
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,799
Speaker 2: And by the way, that's also this is not unique

1199
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 2: only to Karina. The Eastern European woman thing. There seems

1200
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 2: to be plenty of that, which requires exploring. But not

1201
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 2: all of those women received his entire estate upon death, right.

1202
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 4: Okay, absolutely, okay, so I'm sorry.

1203
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, So these are these very early emails I thought

1204
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 6: were very interesting. So from Parina, she documents her impression

1205
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 6: of Ebstein to this introducer and calls him a remarkable person.

1206
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 6: And then she thanked Jeffrey Epstein for the efforts that

1207
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 6: he made to help her, but ultimately she concluded she

1208
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 6: could not accept his help. I guess he had said,

1209
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 6: I will give you tons of cash. Couldn't accept his

1210
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 6: help quote due to some views which strongly state in

1211
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 6: my mind, no matter how stupid it may look. Epstein

1212
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 6: then forwarded the email to the introducer and just said,

1213
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 6: guess she read the press.

1214
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 4: Oh about his convictions.

1215
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 2: Conviction?

1216
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 4: Yes, so she was like, you're cool, you're remarkable, You're

1217
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 4: really smart and charismatic or whatever. But we don't align,

1218
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 4: is what she says.

1219
01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:58,679
Speaker 2: Well, yes, that.

1220
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 6: Was per very early email in twenty eleven. Cut to

1221
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 6: twenty twelve. Stephanie, you laid out exactly what happened, and

1222
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 6: the long and short of it is with you know,

1223
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:14,120
Speaker 6: more than one hundred thousand dollars, including on top of

1224
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 6: the six hundred and thirty thousand dollars of payments for

1225
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 6: the school, Jeffrey Epstein got Karina Shuliak into Colombia. So

1226
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 6: that's twenty twelve to twenty fifteen. During that time is

1227
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:36,759
Speaker 6: when this marriage of convenience to an associate named Jennifer

1228
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 6: Kalin happened in October and the two women divorced in

1229
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:42,959
Speaker 6: twenty eighteen.

1230
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 2: So it's just it's wild, Yeah, how convenient that it

1231
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 2: just shows like he's able to pull strings in every

1232
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 2: single possible category. And he had affinity for doctors. Remember

1233
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 2: that the love of his life, allegedly as well, was

1234
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 2: also a physician, and that's being questioned, and she's being

1235
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 2: brought into question as well. But he had a thing

1236
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 2: with physicians, but also dentists, Like what's with the teeth?

1237
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 2: This might explain the dental chair we saw those weird

1238
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 2: photographs of maybe if his girlfriend was a dentist, maybe

1239
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 2: she was always practicing there. But it seemed he was

1240
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 2: very intentional about getting certain people through medical school and

1241
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 2: supporting their medical careers. And that to me is something

1242
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 2: to do with the eugenics or his need to either

1243
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 2: pro create or I don't know that that's sort of

1244
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 2: the big smoking gun in this, but you know, she

1245
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 2: is one to see me.

1246
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 4: He seemed to have a very high interest in her.

1247
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 4: He must have approved of her genes or something.

1248
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 6: MM hmm, yeah, whatever it was, they seemed deeply this

1249
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 6: was you know, they were intertwined for many, many years

1250
01:13:55,040 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 6: up until the end. And Epstein also supported Prini Shuliak's family,

1251
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:05,880
Speaker 6: you know, put them up in a higher end apartment,

1252
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 6: paid for Parina, she had an operation fund to travel,

1253
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 6: et cetera. And I thought this was very interesting. So

1254
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:21,919
Speaker 6: she was intimately involved in Epstein's life, including managing estates

1255
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:28,480
Speaker 6: and social connections and logistics. So to your earlier point, Stephanie, yes,

1256
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 6: she knows way more than we know.

1257
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:35,240
Speaker 2: Is it like possible that she is just walking free? Also,

1258
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 2: I think the same rule would apply just on behalf

1259
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 2: of all women and the thousands of victims that still

1260
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 2: are requiring answers. You would think, Karina, maybe this would

1261
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 2: be her her wish is to get this information out

1262
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 2: if she in fact has any you know, as a woman,

1263
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 2: I would imagine she would want to share anything she knows.

1264
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 2: And you can't tell me that she doesn't know a lot.

1265
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 4: It could be too that she at such a young

1266
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 4: age was kind of like indoctrinated a little bit, right,

1267
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 4: of course, that's very true.

1268
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 2: Maybe that's very possible.

1269
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 4: Thinks it's normal what he was doing like I don't know,

1270
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 4: I'm not listening, I'm not making an excuses, I'm just

1271
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 4: trying to understand.

1272
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 2: No, and certainly that does really happen, you know, the

1273
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 2: victim becomes the predator. Of course, we've seen so many

1274
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 2: versions of that, particularly in the Epstein case. However, with

1275
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 2: some contacts and perspective as an adult woman at thirty

1276
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: six years old, I'm sure she's seeing things a little

1277
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 2: differently right now. And given that this money that she's

1278
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:36,679
Speaker 2: been left may not find its way to her pocket anyway,

1279
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 2: maybe it's time to speak up and do the right

1280
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 2: thing so that a thousand plus women can finally have justice.

1281
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 6: Yeah. However, if she also has counsel, which I imagined she

1282
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 6: would have spoken to an attorney or two, I would

1283
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 6: also have to imagine that they implored her to say nothing,

1284
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 6: which to this point she has said.

1285
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:02,439
Speaker 2: Exactly that we haven't even seen publicly. We haven't seen

1286
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:04,840
Speaker 2: her publicly, by the way, we know. You know, King

1287
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 2: Charles is going to come to the United States a

1288
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 2: very big visit. He intends to sit down with many

1289
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 2: of the victims, allegedly, and I'm not sure what those

1290
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 2: conversations will be, but maybe to hear more about their experiences,

1291
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 2: and I assume on behalf of his you know, dope brother,

1292
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 2: maybe that will offer some you know, some remorse, you know,

1293
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 2: on behalf of the family. I just can't believe we're

1294
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:37,680
Speaker 2: not seeing more of that here, and we're just not absolutely.

1295
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 6: Here's a couple of emails between them that were in

1296
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:45,000
Speaker 6: the files. So Kranashuliak wrote to Epstein, I love you

1297
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:50,639
Speaker 6: very much, she went on, and no matter the rumors,

1298
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,560
Speaker 6: you're the purest man I've ever met.

1299
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 2: And lumens yes, correct body.

1300
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,559
Speaker 6: And from Ebbs, he wrote to her, your concern over

1301
01:17:02,600 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 6: women is unnecessary. It's causing too much trust between us.

1302
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 6: The first day we became together, I told you please,

1303
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 6: there are always women around. If they will make you

1304
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 6: jealous or anxious, it will be a problem. Oh that's

1305
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:17,879
Speaker 6: such a weird verbiage.

1306
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:21,400
Speaker 4: The first day we became together to talks like that.

1307
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 2: Talks like that, he's like Shakespeare. Yeah, this guy's interesting.

1308
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 2: Your face in the moon like, by the way, easy

1309
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 2: to say that she's another kid too, Like he's meeting

1310
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 2: her at twenty years old. Why don't you go up

1311
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:36,600
Speaker 2: against somebody your own age and actually go face to

1312
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 2: face with somebody who can hold you accountable in some way,

1313
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 2: who's not completely dependent upon you, because they need your

1314
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 2: Their citizenship is dependent upon you, their family's livelihood is

1315
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 2: dependent upon you. This is what makes him such a

1316
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 2: super creep. And again, it's a it's a it's a

1317
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:55,639
Speaker 2: cautionary tale to every person out there, male or female,

1318
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 2: who is like, hmm, this seems a little too good

1319
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 2: to be true. I'm promising you it is. Ebscene is

1320
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 2: the poster child for buyer beware.

1321
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 6: Absolutely, and I know we're heading to break quickly. But

1322
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 6: the inheritance on top of that one hundred million dollars

1323
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 6: of cash, the Manhattan House, the most expensive house in

1324
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 6: Manhattan for some.

1325
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 2: Time, the most expensive, most.

1326
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 6: Private islands, the New Mexico ranch, and a thirty three

1327
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:30,600
Speaker 6: carrot diamond during all of which should be going to

1328
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 6: the victims as we speak.

1329
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 4: So wow, Well we'll see what happens. Stick around. We

1330
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 4: have more to dig into. We're going to get into

1331
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 4: some talkbacks with your questions and comments in the cases

1332
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:41,040
Speaker 4: that we've been covering.

1333
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 2: Keep it right here a True Crime Tonight.

1334
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:44,040
Speaker 4: We're talking true crime all the time.

1335
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 2: Welcome back at True Crime Tonight. An iHeartRadio. We're talking

1336
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:01,880
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Stephanie Leidecker, Hey, I'm here

1337
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and body moving and we're so glad

1338
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:06,600
Speaker 2: you're with us tonight. We're trying to get through a

1339
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 2: few talkbacks because they keep on coming and we don't

1340
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 2: want to leave them for too long, so thank you

1341
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:15,400
Speaker 2: for sharing them, by the way, keep them coming, Quurt,

1342
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:20,160
Speaker 2: where are you want to go? First? Let's hit twenty

1343
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,560
Speaker 2: three A. Let's hear about some phone etiqette.

1344
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 5: What are you at?

1345
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,280
Speaker 12: This is Crocker for New Zoeudland talking about phone etiquette.

1346
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 8: That's the problem is.

1347
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 12: We don't have etiquette and we haven't learned it, and

1348
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 12: we talk about kids, but everybody needs etiquette. We've learned

1349
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 12: etiquette around eating at the dining table, and it's reinforced

1350
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:40,759
Speaker 12: in school through learning about recess in kindergarten and sitting

1351
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 12: down for our snacks. Some etiquette that I teach in

1352
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:46,879
Speaker 12: my classes is the gray scale one that Courtney mentioned,

1353
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 12: but using it as a shortcut so they can easily

1354
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 12: turn it on and off for focus. We talk about

1355
01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 12: excusing themselves in high school or whatever for an important

1356
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:56,520
Speaker 12: meeting or an appointment.

1357
01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:56,760
Speaker 8: Or a phone call.

1358
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 12: We also talk about moving apps around, putting them in

1359
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 12: folders for positive affirmations. And the biggest thing is not

1360
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 12: recognizing that everybody needs phone etiquette, and everybody deserves respect,

1361
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 12: and everyone has a point of view, so.

1362
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 8: Banning put that away.

1363
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 12: Now, all of these directions don't think are respectful.

1364
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 8: So I ask my.

1365
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:19,680
Speaker 12: Classes to finish up their messages. Hey, we're going to

1366
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 12: get started in a minute. Finish up whatever you're doing

1367
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 12: on your phone and then we'll get started.

1368
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 2: Great.

1369
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 8: I love that, Yeah, I do too.

1370
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 4: What are great tips when she makes phone etiquette? At

1371
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 4: first I thought she meant like when you're talking on

1372
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 4: the phone with somebody, but then I yes, she went on.

1373
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 4: I was like, Oh, she's talking about like people on

1374
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:41,000
Speaker 4: their phones in public?

1375
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:45,759
Speaker 2: Right, yes, you know what you know? Can I just elevate?

1376
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 3: No.

1377
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:50,680
Speaker 4: I hate when I'm like grocery shopping and somebody is

1378
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 4: in the aisle with me with their speaker phone.

1379
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 2: I don't get it.

1380
01:20:54,840 --> 01:21:00,080
Speaker 4: I hate that. I give them the evil eye. But

1381
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 4: here's the thing. What's the difference. If if some guy

1382
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 4: was standing next to his wife having a conversation, I

1383
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 4: wouldn't be annoyed, But for some reason that speakerphone it

1384
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 4: drives me.

1385
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 2: No, it's you make an one good point. It's a

1386
01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 2: really good point.

1387
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 3: Though.

1388
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,560
Speaker 2: A speakerphone in general, I think is questionable getting in,

1389
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:23,960
Speaker 2: you know, in elevators and being on your speakerphone bathrooms,

1390
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 2: et cetera. Yeah, it just seems that you're unaware of

1391
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:31,719
Speaker 2: get a nearby. You are like, come on right exactly,

1392
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,559
Speaker 2: And you're right though, if the same conversation were happening

1393
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 2: with two people together in person, I would certainly not

1394
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 2: have the same opinion. No, but it's appropriate to say like.

1395
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 13: You're you're a little loud. Wow, I guess we would

1396
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,560
Speaker 13: do that. Get nobody beaten. I just like run away.

1397
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,919
Speaker 13: I want to be like, you're so rude. But yeah,

1398
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 13: well I had. It didn't have to do with phone etiquette.

1399
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 13: But there was a woman in the grocery store actually,

1400
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 13: you know, at the deli, getting chicken breasts or whatever.

1401
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 13: I was very very clearly in line, and she absolutely

1402
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 13: pushed in front and waved her arms so much that

1403
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 13: the person behind the counter gave, you know, kind of

1404
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 13: a startled look. And I just said to her, very politely,

1405
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 13: I said, oh my goodness, excuse me. I didn't realize

1406
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 13: you were that much more important than I am. Please please,

1407
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 13: And she was mortified.

1408
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:24,760
Speaker 2: But don't be rude.

1409
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 6: And you may think that was rude, but I thought

1410
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:28,679
Speaker 6: it was a very appropriate response.

1411
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 2: I think it's completely appropriate. Yeah, like completely appropriate. Who

1412
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:32,640
Speaker 2: are you?

1413
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 6: But the phone etiquette Crocker actually echoes Katie Greer, our

1414
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 6: internet expert who speaks all about exactly that phone citizenship.

1415
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 2: So that's awesome, that's great. Yeah, phone Katie back on.

1416
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, I loved you. She's another one.

1417
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:54,240
Speaker 4: We have one of the girls, I feel, yeah, exactly

1418
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 4: one of us.

1419
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:58,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, she's been a busy bee, but I definitely she's

1420
01:22:58,120 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 11: someone that would love to have her back.

1421
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:03,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, definitely Crocker, thank you so much for the talkback.

1422
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 4: We always love it when our new fees call, So

1423
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 4: thank you all the way from Newfoundland. Let's got another talkback.

1424
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 14: Okay, ladies, So this is stuff from Pennsylvania and we

1425
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 14: are dealing with stink bug issues. Just get a tissue,

1426
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 14: go up, throw it in the toilet, and flush it.

1427
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:25,479
Speaker 14: That's all you gotta do to do anything else. It's

1428
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 14: not going to crawl on you. They look like many

1429
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,960
Speaker 14: dinosaur things. They don't bite, they're harmless.

1430
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 2: I mean exactly, by the way, these are the things

1431
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 2: we learn in the wild, and apparently in the one

1432
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:44,320
Speaker 2: My life is so wild listen as a city dweller,

1433
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,680
Speaker 2: I'm getting used to the country. I had yet to

1434
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 2: see a stink bug, and we did let it see

1435
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:54,759
Speaker 2: its day. It survived into the wilderness. But the toilet

1436
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:56,840
Speaker 2: drunk is a good one to know for next time.

1437
01:23:57,400 --> 01:23:58,559
Speaker 2: Good call, good Call.

1438
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 4: A little behind the scene and this was okay, hysterical.

1439
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:05,840
Speaker 4: If we have a recording of this, it has to

1440
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 4: go on our blooper reel because during the break, Stephanie

1441
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,720
Speaker 4: was trying to get the stink bub and we have

1442
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:15,200
Speaker 4: cameras and we can see each other and whatnot. And

1443
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:20,720
Speaker 4: Stephanie is standing on her desk chair. Stephanie screams, that's

1444
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 4: how she's doing that. The entire commercial break, You guys,

1445
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,400
Speaker 4: Courtney and I were like pean or pants laughing.

1446
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 8: Yes, they were very unhelpful supportive.

1447
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was trying to up scoop it up and

1448
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 2: then get it in a cup, and it was high

1449
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:42,400
Speaker 2: on the ceiling. And by the way, I think I

1450
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 2: like pulled my shoulder out. By the way, since so

1451
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 2: I haven't moved my arm appropriately since But yes, I next.

1452
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 2: Now I know the toilet trick is definitely the answer,

1453
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 2: and I feel much more capable in the world.

1454
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 8: So that was the funniest.

1455
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:00,679
Speaker 5: I think that was the funniest at all.

1456
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 4: It was, I think, but the funniest part of it

1457
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 4: all was Stephanie's scream. Really does scream? I was like,

1458
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 4: I was like, is this really happening right now?

1459
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 2: She's screaming? Because this is why we can't be in

1460
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:27,479
Speaker 2: like a slasher flick. I would be, I would be,

1461
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 2: I would be immediately. I wouldn't get the part. It

1462
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 2: would not be my shining moment. But yes, you guys,

1463
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:38,680
Speaker 2: did I finally come back successfully and these guys have

1464
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:41,200
Speaker 2: like they're crying, they're laughing, so well, oh my gosh.

1465
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:44,799
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, what did I miss? What's so funny?

1466
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 2: They're like you you moron?

1467
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:46,720
Speaker 7: You?

1468
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:53,240
Speaker 6: Yeah? Ps, the same thing. Like I that talkback sounded

1469
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 6: so brave. Just grab a tissue. I'm like, what got it?

1470
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1471
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:58,639
Speaker 5: So easy to do alone.

1472
01:25:58,680 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 2: I can't.

1473
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:03,720
Speaker 6: We should Oh before we go to another talkback, taha,

1474
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 6: you had some news to share about tomorrow?

1475
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:06,880
Speaker 5: Oh?

1476
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 11: Yes, I just want to remind everyone we're finally going

1477
01:26:09,240 --> 01:26:11,639
Speaker 11: to get to the true crime and chill. We've got

1478
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 11: a few people who left talkbacks and people have responded

1479
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 11: even made new suggestions. Tomorrow, we're going to unpack that.

1480
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 11: It's the Alabama Solution. That's the documentary that's on Max.

1481
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:26,080
Speaker 11: It's about the prison system in Alabama. But we're going

1482
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 11: to actually unpack it a little bit with Attorney Jarrett

1483
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,000
Speaker 11: Farentino and just get him to weigh on, weigh in

1484
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:34,439
Speaker 11: on the conversation as well.

1485
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 5: So everyone watch it. We're going to talk about it

1486
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 5: tomorrow and that'll be that. So what do you guys think.

1487
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:43,720
Speaker 2: I'm excited. I feel like I'm reading that way to

1488
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 2: talk about it.

1489
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 5: I feel like we've been we've been stretching it.

1490
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 2: Talking a lot about talking about it.

1491
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 5: This is it.

1492
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 2: That was when we were going to talk about it.

1493
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 2: The last time was all on the oscars because it

1494
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 2: was so appropriately time. So yeah, long overdue, let's do it.

1495
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:05,439
Speaker 5: Going, all right, let's go to another talk pack.

1496
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:09,160
Speaker 15: Hey, ladies and gents, business gen from Iowa a time.

1497
01:27:09,280 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 15: Listen to the episode from March twenty sixth, and you

1498
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:14,200
Speaker 15: were talking about fund of houses. I can tell you

1499
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:17,439
Speaker 15: I agree, it's not something that I volunteer to attend.

1500
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,799
Speaker 15: I'm very genty and it's in the Death of Clowns.

1501
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 15: I did go through a haunted house funds and I

1502
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 15: do have to say that I killed the moas for

1503
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:26,719
Speaker 15: the entire group because the guy with the big chainsaw

1504
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 15: came up to me and I don't scream, and I

1505
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:31,440
Speaker 15: just swore him, and you could totally tell that I

1506
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 15: interrupted his whole gig and I kind of ruined that

1507
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:36,440
Speaker 15: room for everybody.

1508
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:38,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, I get it.

1509
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,320
Speaker 2: By the way, they're horrifying. The guy with the chainsaw

1510
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 2: is not allowed like that is talking about this split

1511
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 2: talk about the worst scream ever in the worst location. Yeah,

1512
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:50,280
Speaker 2: they're horrifying and clowns hard.

1513
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:54,320
Speaker 11: No, yeah, between the clowns and the chainsaw everything else.

1514
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:57,640
Speaker 11: So but but I do I like still going and

1515
01:27:57,680 --> 01:27:59,560
Speaker 11: getting scared. I have that side where bodies like you

1516
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:01,639
Speaker 11: like to be a little bit, but I like it

1517
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:03,759
Speaker 11: to a certain level then that I regret.

1518
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 4: It, especially like if you're with somebody that like maybe

1519
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,240
Speaker 4: you're on a date, like and you're just the worst

1520
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 4: date that we know because you can you can hold

1521
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:13,720
Speaker 4: on to them.

1522
01:28:13,479 --> 01:28:15,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, but then they see you screaming and freaking out

1523
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 11: at your worst, but then they want.

1524
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 2: To protect you. No, and then you remind them taha

1525
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:24,200
Speaker 2: that you also you're although you're screaming, you also do

1526
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 2: love Eddie Murphy's My girl likes a party all the time,

1527
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:29,800
Speaker 2: and that will really be all the playing field for you,

1528
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 2: So they'll they'll definitely know how macho that can be. Yes,

1529
01:28:35,720 --> 01:28:40,120
Speaker 2: my girl does like to party all the time.

1530
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 11: But that was a good talk back. Can I read

1531
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:46,559
Speaker 11: a d M that's directed to Stephanie? Would be okay

1532
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 11: with this one?

1533
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:47,880
Speaker 3: All right?

1534
01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,800
Speaker 5: Yes, this is from Tangia. I think she's our friend

1535
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 5: from Atlanta.

1536
01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 11: I think she's called a few times before, but but

1537
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 11: this is a d M from her, and she said, Hi, guys,

1538
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:01,559
Speaker 11: just listening where Stephanie's said she was thinking of getting

1539
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 11: another dog. Well, Nashville has some great rescue options. If

1540
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 11: she's looking for a bigger dog, I'm partial to great

1541
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:13,679
Speaker 11: pyres she said. You can check out the Big Fluffy

1542
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 11: Dog Rescue. If she's leaning more towards smaller, she can

1543
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:20,120
Speaker 11: check out Wags and Walk of Nashville.

1544
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:21,520
Speaker 5: That name he cute.

1545
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 11: She said, I lost my dog one year ago and

1546
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 11: I'm still not quite ready for another.

1547
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,200
Speaker 5: But will likely get one of these. When I do.

1548
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:32,840
Speaker 5: Sounds like she's ready. So just throwing that out there.

1549
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:35,880
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll get like sibling dogs or something. Yes, I'm

1550
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 2: looking for a senior dog. And it's so funny you

1551
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:41,800
Speaker 2: bring up wags and walks or wags in love? Is

1552
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 2: that what it's called?

1553
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 5: Wags and Wags and walk of Nashville.

1554
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:48,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they do more puppies, I think. But yeah,

1555
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 2: that's a great call. And I'm sort of thinking more

1556
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 2: somebody a little sleepy and exhausted who likes to Sunday

1557
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:56,880
Speaker 2: all day and watch Bravo with me.

1558
01:29:57,439 --> 01:29:57,719
Speaker 16: Yeah.

1559
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's what I'm looking for.

1560
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 16: I know.

1561
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:08,560
Speaker 6: I actually body feeder, fermento cheese, call it a day.

1562
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 2: And like snats, Yes, some naps, some pumento cheese, and

1563
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 2: we are off to the races. Yes, what a great

1564
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,240
Speaker 2: suggestion and I love that. And I'm sorry that you

1565
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 2: lost your loved one. And yeah, sometimes a year is

1566
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:24,400
Speaker 2: not enough.

1567
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:26,559
Speaker 11: I had to look up the dog that she had,

1568
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 11: the Great Pyre, and it looks like almost like a

1569
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:30,759
Speaker 11: big white fluffy almost.

1570
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:37,280
Speaker 6: There's so few, and I have to say pet Finder

1571
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 6: I find great. They kind of they is amalgamate. That's

1572
01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 6: not the right word. They aggregate, thank you very much.

1573
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:49,440
Speaker 6: They aggregate. And it's all different kinds of rescues. And Stephanie,

1574
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 6: you can put in sleepy, you can put exhaust. I'm

1575
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,680
Speaker 6: not kidding all kinds because I am not equipped. My

1576
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 6: dogs need to I'm not running five miles a day

1577
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 6: on the beach like some dogs need. So, yeah, you

1578
01:31:04,439 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 6: can put in the age, everything good with kids, other dogs,

1579
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 6: whatever you want.

1580
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 2: So and I listen. I want to.

1581
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:15,360
Speaker 4: I want to emphasize too, that rescue is the way

1582
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:18,720
Speaker 4: to go. I mean, you know, all my dogs, I

1583
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 4: have never purchased a dog. I've never purchased an animal

1584
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 4: in my life.

1585
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 2: When you start looking at these, you know, these great suggestions,

1586
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:29,920
Speaker 2: even from you know, we we just heard about. Once

1587
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:31,960
Speaker 2: you start going through the photographs, it's so.

1588
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:38,840
Speaker 4: Heart wrenching, especially the older dogs. Yes, because it's like,

1589
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 4: you know, not many people are looking for older dogs.

1590
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:45,640
Speaker 2: And you know, yeah, I like a little like you know,

1591
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:48,320
Speaker 2: a little middle age. How do you say no, That's

1592
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:49,960
Speaker 2: why I'm afraid to walk in. I'll come back with

1593
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:52,479
Speaker 2: nine dogs. I'll be in a nightmare. I have like

1594
01:31:52,600 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 2: nine elderly dogs. You know, sleep everyone's sleepy, everyone's just

1595
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:06,160
Speaker 2: tired and we're all laying out in the sun fantasizing

1596
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:11,320
Speaker 2: about being on a beach. Yeah, I'm in Twitter. That

1597
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 2: was very sweet.

1598
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 11: We do and you kept mentioning music and that Eddie Murphy.

1599
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 11: So why don't we do eighteen A to give Stephanie

1600
01:32:18,479 --> 01:32:19,679
Speaker 11: a laugh about this one?

1601
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:22,400
Speaker 16: Hey, it's Marteste from Newhamshire. If you guys are doing

1602
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 16: your walk out song, hysterically cry, laughing, crying with Stephanie's.

1603
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 16: I have played that three different times for three different people.

1604
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:32,719
Speaker 16: I'm a bet and I've got a little group together

1605
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 16: where I live and we all talk about true crime tonight.

1606
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:40,080
Speaker 16: I got other people and I love you guys, Bye,

1607
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 16: love you.

1608
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 2: Listen a little Catalot after party, a.

1609
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:51,639
Speaker 8: Little Man from La Mancha and.

1610
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:56,120
Speaker 2: Really really set the stage. We should do a group zoom.

1611
01:32:56,720 --> 01:32:57,679
Speaker 8: I love the idea.

1612
01:32:57,680 --> 01:32:59,480
Speaker 2: I don't know how to make this happen.

1613
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:02,840
Speaker 17: But I love I love our community and like we

1614
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 17: I feel we're all buds, and I feel like it's

1615
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 17: everyone's like minded and kind and fair and interesting, and

1616
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:11,200
Speaker 17: everybody has different perspectives.

1617
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 2: How do we make this happen? We want to be

1618
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:14,639
Speaker 2: a part of.

1619
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:15,439
Speaker 8: Your your group.

1620
01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 2: Let us in the group.

1621
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 11: Chet let us in the group chat to talk about

1622
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:22,160
Speaker 11: the idea that we were just floating around, maybe a

1623
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 11: discord type group where we could all meet and talk

1624
01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:28,960
Speaker 11: amongst that group. But you know you have to be

1625
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:30,760
Speaker 11: discord savvy. So there's that.

1626
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,160
Speaker 2: But just lost me already, I was.

1627
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 8: That's the problem with.

1628
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:47,400
Speaker 5: That is there? Like, hey guys, I'm here nobody.

1629
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:53,679
Speaker 6: But that is so great. New Hampshire, by the way,

1630
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,519
Speaker 6: live free or die. I used to spend some of

1631
01:33:56,520 --> 01:34:00,639
Speaker 6: my favorite times are at Lake Winnipesake. I love New Hampshire, Yes,

1632
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:01,840
Speaker 6: I love.

1633
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 4: I love New Hampshire because of west Wayne. He was

1634
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:09,759
Speaker 4: the governor of New Hampshire for for a long time

1635
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,120
Speaker 4: and that's where he would go. And there was the

1636
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:13,200
Speaker 4: fight about the syrup.

1637
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 6: And there is no vert maple syrup in this white house.

1638
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 8: You two little nuggets.

1639
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:28,680
Speaker 2: Honestly, seeing smiling faces you makes me so happy. So

1640
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 2: tomorrow night I'm actually not going to be here, but

1641
01:34:31,240 --> 01:34:35,639
Speaker 2: Jarrett Farantino, our very favorite prosecutor, will be, so he'll

1642
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 2: be answering some of your questions in all of our

1643
01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 2: legal ones as well. Great show, everybody, Thank you for

1644
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:51,680
Speaker 2: joining us. Stay safe,