1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: A mid twenty twenty five's blur of news, one story 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 2: keeps coming back. There are new developments in the Jeffrey 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: Epstein investigation. 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: Related to the case of convicted sex offended financier Jeffrey Epstein. 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 2: There's been a drumbeat of new details about the late 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 2: convicted sex trafficker, about his connections to political and financial elite, 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 2: about his emails, all seeming to raise more questions than 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: they answer. How did Epstein exploit so many underage girls 10 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 2: for so long with little consequence while maintaining a circle 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: of powerful friends. But answers have appeared close at hand. 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: Here's then presidential candidate Trump on Fox and Friends in 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 2: the summer of twenty twenty four, would you declassify the 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: Epstein files? Yeah, Yeah, I would. Now, after months of 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 2: stops and starts and pressure from the left and right, 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: the release of the Epstein files may be near. In November, 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: the House and Senate past to bill mandating that the 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 2: Department of Justice released the documents within thirty days were 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 2: by December nineteenth. 20 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 3: It's become the biggest political story of twenty twenty five. 21 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: That's Bloomberg investigative reporter Jason Leopold. Jason has been tracking 22 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: the Epstein story closely in his weekly Foy of Files 23 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 2: newsletter and on his new podcast for Bloomberg called Disclosure. 24 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 3: That kind of pressure and that kind of coverage around 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 3: it is kind of forced the hand of the Department 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: of Justice, the FBI, who clearly sought to keep this 27 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 3: under wraps. 28 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: Jason's specialty is obtaining documents using the Freedom of Information Act, 29 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: so he's just the guy to walk us through what 30 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: to expect when the government is on the clock to 31 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: turn over a trove of material. I'm David Gura, and 32 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: this is the big tape from Bloomberg News today on 33 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: the show, What we can expect from the Epstein Files? 34 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: What more is there to learn from these documents? What 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: the government might release, and what it might hold back. Jason, 36 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 2: it's hard to believe, but it's been more than six 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 2: years since Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in a jail 38 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: cell in Manhattan, and we do know a good deal 39 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: about him. We've learned a lot more here in recent 40 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: months and years. He was the subject of two federal investigations. 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: We've heard about the billions of dollars that flowed through 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: the accounts that he had at major financial institutions. Then 43 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: of course through the emails the correspondence that we've seen 44 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 2: a lot of them show his connections to the rich 45 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: and powerful. So at this stage, what is there that 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: we do not know about Jeffrey Epstein. 47 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: There's actually a lot we don't know. 48 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 3: What we don't know relates to, certainly the source of 49 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: his wealth, very very important. We don't have a real 50 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 3: understanding as to how Jeffrey Epstein made all of this money. 51 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 3: And it's not to say that the federal government necessarily 52 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 3: has the answer to that question in these documents, but 53 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: it's one of the unanswered questions that has persisted for many, 54 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 3: many years. And in addition to that, we also don't 55 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 3: really know how the government conducted its investigation, how that 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 3: investigation unfolded by the FBI. We have some sense as 57 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 3: to how the sweetheart deal, very controversial plea deal that 58 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: he entered into with prosecutors in Florida in Florida came about, 59 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 3: but what led up to it, What was happening behind 60 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 3: the scenes, What did the FBI find, Who did they interview, 61 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 3: what sorts of documents did they collect bank records other 62 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 3: types of records That would shed even more light as 63 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 3: to how that sort of actored into the deal that 64 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: he signed that kind of spared him from federal charges. 65 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: A few weeks ago, Preston Trump signed the Epstein Files 66 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: Transparency Act. This is a law that requires the Justice 67 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: supermit to release those investigative files. When we say the 68 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: Epstein files, what does that mean? It's a term we 69 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: kind of throw around, but what exactly is in that 70 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: corpus of documents? 71 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: What that is is the government's records, everything that they 72 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: amassed during the course of their investigation. And it's FBI records, 73 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 3: it's Justice Department records. It actually would arguably consist of 74 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 3: records from other agencies as well, Treasury Department, the Financial 75 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 3: Crimes Enforcement Network, Securities and Exchange Commission. So it was 76 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 3: unknown what these files actually contained, and I dug into that. 77 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 3: I was really interested in learning what could these files 78 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: actually be. So I dug into a case that had 79 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 3: been under the radar for nearly nine years, and that's 80 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 3: a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit that was filed by 81 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: a reporter who worked for Radar Online Radars of publication 82 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 3: that by the way. Jeffrey Epstein was an investor in 83 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 3: way way back, and during the course of my reporting 84 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 3: and research into this case, I came across an index, 85 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 3: and basically that index described it is sort of broad 86 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 3: general descriptions what kinds of records that the FBI had 87 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 3: as it related to Jeffrey Epstein and the investigation that 88 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 3: took place between two thousand and five and two thousand 89 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 3: and eight and the reporter they got about a thousand 90 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: pages of these records, but the vast majority, more than 91 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 3: ten thousand pages had been withheld. So in this index 92 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 3: it actually showed that there were photographs, perhaps that's not 93 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: a surprise, communications with foreign governments, communications related to his 94 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: financial records, many interviews with witnesses or people that were 95 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: important to question during that investigation. Obviously you know, interviews 96 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: with victims. But it really showed that the investigation was 97 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 3: not just at least the way I read it, not 98 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 3: just completely centered in the US. There was also it 99 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 3: was a little bit global. The FBI was looking outside 100 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: of the US as well as they were probing Jeffrey Epstein. 101 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 3: So that index really kind of laid bare what would 102 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 3: arguably be in the files. 103 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 2: So you've reported Jason that this index alone is one 104 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy pages, So that suggests that Justice Superman 105 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 2: has a lot of. 106 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 3: Documentsnumber of records that were withheld from the request in 107 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: that case. At the time, they pegged it at around 108 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 3: ten thousand pages. But that's just actually a sliver. That's 109 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 3: just a sliver of everything the Justice Department and FBI collected, 110 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 3: because we now know based on the fact that over 111 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: the summer the Justice Department and the FBI issued a 112 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: joint statement that said we are actually not going to 113 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: release anything. They disclosed that they actually amassed three hundred 114 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 3: gigabytes of data and records and all of that, but 115 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 3: they didn't describe really what those records were. So the 116 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 3: index is showing that there are many different categories of 117 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 3: records that the FBI has. 118 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: You mentioned what was happening over the course of the summer, 119 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: the Justice s Perman's reluctance unwillingness to release this information, 120 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: and suffice to say, a lot has changed since then. 121 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: I mentioned that law. There was all of this resistance 122 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: among Republicans to pass that law. In fact, it was 123 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: passed to assigned by the President pretty quickly thereafter. What 124 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: is the Justice Department supposed to release in the next 125 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: few days. 126 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 3: By law, they are supposed to release within thirty days 127 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 3: everything everything, which is kind of unreal, right because we're 128 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 3: talking about three hundred gigabytes of data and they are 129 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 3: supposed to just turn that over to the househover Site 130 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: and Government Reform Committee, and they are permitted to withhold 131 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: temporarily some records if it relates to an ongoing investigation. 132 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 3: They are permitted to withhold the names of some victims, 133 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 3: and if they redact anyone else's name, the committee needs 134 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 3: to know about it. So there has kind of been 135 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 3: a wait and see as to will they turn everything 136 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 3: over to the committee, because they really would be remarkable. 137 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 3: You're talking about it, you know, a transfer of a massive, 138 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: massive trove of records. 139 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: How much of that can we expect to be made public? 140 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: Since Trump took office, his administration has shown hesitation about 141 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: releasing everything. So what could the DOJ hold back and 142 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: could there be other ways to crack open the Epstein files. 143 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: That's after the break. 144 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: I'm speaking with Bloomberg investigative reporter Jason Leopold about what 145 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 2: we can expect from the Epstein files and how the 146 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: government has approached releasing them. I think what a lot 147 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: of people want to know, including a very vocal camp 148 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 2: of Trump supporters, is the full extent of Jeffrey Epstein's 149 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 2: activities and how a lot of prominent people fit into those. 150 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: And President Trump, of course, on the campaign trails, said 151 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: he would release these files to the Attorney General. Pimbondi 152 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: immediately released a trans of documents to a lot of 153 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: fanfare and then came under fire because a lot of 154 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 2: those documents were already out there in the public domain. 155 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: After that, she basically ordered the FBI director ordered Cash 156 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: Pattel to bring the DOJ Moore documents. You have reported 157 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 2: on how the FBI handled those documents, handled that request. 158 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: What did you learn? 159 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 3: I was very interested after the botched rollout of what 160 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: Pam Bondi called phase one of the release of the 161 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: Epstein files, after that happened, and the director of what's 162 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 3: given to Cash Pattel, is very interested in what was 163 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: going on behind the scenes because now at the time 164 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 3: this was, you know, around March, there are about one 165 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: thousand FBI agents and other FBI person at people, yeah, 166 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 3: who were tasked with reviewing the Epstein files redacting it 167 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 3: and making it available for you know, for public release. 168 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 3: And I wanted to get an idea of what was 169 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 3: going on behind the scenes, so I filed a FOY request. 170 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: We ultimately, we being Bloomberg and and myself ultimately sued 171 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 3: the FBI to obtain those records. And a couple of 172 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 3: weeks ago got the first batch of records and it 173 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,239 Speaker 3: was about sixty pages of emails. But what was fascinating 174 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 3: about these emails It kind of put you behind the 175 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 3: scenes at the FBI to see how they were working 176 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 3: really really quickly to review and redact the record. 177 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: So redact is very important. 178 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 3: They actually called it Special Reaction Project, but at the 179 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: same time they called it Epstein Transparency Project. That was 180 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 3: a little weird seeing that Epstein Transparency Project and. 181 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: Special Reaction Project. 182 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 3: I think one of the key takeaways from those records 183 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 3: is that it showed that Dan Bongino, the deputy director, 184 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 3: he was in the loop as discussions were taking place 185 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 3: over reactions cash Ptel was seeking updates. There were actually 186 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 3: nine hundred and thirty four agents and other personnel who 187 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: worked on it, and that the FBI ultimately paid for 188 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 3: six days of work a million dollars in overtime to 189 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 3: agents and others who clocked in, you know, extra hours 190 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 3: working on the Epstein files. 191 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: What could you tell us that you gleaned from those 192 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: documents about what was at the center of those deliberations, 193 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: how they were deciding what to redact. 194 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 3: You know, I wish I could tell you that that's 195 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 3: what the document showed, but the FBI withheld that information. 196 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: I was able to just see is that they. 197 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 3: Had PowerPoint trainings on what to redact, how to process 198 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 3: and redact, and what should be redacted. That there was 199 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 3: also you know, a paper that was presented to the 200 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 3: Justice Department on the final overview of the Epstein files, 201 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 3: but again they withheld that. But it allows us to 202 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 3: chip away a bit at kind of finding out what 203 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 3: was happening behind the scenes and how this this process worked. 204 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 3: And what we can tell is that it really was 205 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: isolated to maybe just two and a half months. They 206 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 3: were working so much during that two and a half 207 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 3: month timeframe to get this ready, and ultimately what happened 208 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: is nothing was released. 209 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: You've been doing this for a long time, so you 210 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 2: know the kind of grounds for redaction. Generally speaking, here, 211 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: I imagine there's the potential for maybe an inclination to 212 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: redact something because of the potential political embarrassment, any sense 213 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 2: of the greed, which that's weighing on the agents who 214 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 2: are going through all of us. If that's part of 215 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: the mandate that they've gotten here to keep an eye 216 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: out for who might be surfaced in these documents. 217 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: They're not supposed to not supposed to redact anything because 218 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 3: it would cause embarrassment or embarrass any one particular person 219 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 3: or many individuals. They are supposed to apply reactions in 220 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 3: kind of accordance with the FOYA, the nine exemptions under FOYA. 221 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 3: Now this is they're not releasing records as a result 222 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 3: of a Foyer request, but that's the guidelines that they're using. 223 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 3: So that means that they are withholding information for personal privacy, 224 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 3: could be national security, could be an ongoing investigation, could 225 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 3: be you know, attorney client privilege, and that's what they're 226 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: supposed to do. I learned during the course of my 227 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 3: reporting that you know, Trump's name appears in these records 228 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 3: and that his name was redacted. There's no evidence that 229 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 3: there was any wrongdoing by Trump for appearing in the records. 230 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 3: The argument was they were redacting it for privacy reasons 231 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: because at the time Trump was a private city s 232 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 3: he wasn't the president of the United States. 233 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 2: So there is suffice to say a lot of anti disipation. 234 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: You know, what's the Justice Department going to release by 235 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: this deadline of on or around December nineteenth, if my 236 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: math is right, for the thirty day period after this 237 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: legislation was signed into law. If the Justice Department decides 238 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 2: to hold back some or all of these documents, have 239 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 2: we in effect hit a wall? What recourse do people 240 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: have if the release in mid December isn't as comprehensive 241 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 2: as lawmakers and others are expecting. It's a really good question. 242 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: And you know, I want to bring us back to that. 243 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: Radar lawsuit right that lawsuit is still active, that is 244 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 3: still winding its way through the courts. In fact, that 245 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 3: attorney has appealed the decision by the judge that that 246 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 3: found in favor of the Justice Department that they would 247 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 3: withhold the vast majority of the records due to ongoing 248 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 3: you know, investigations, and so there's a hearing coming up 249 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 3: in the Second Circuit here in New York in January. 250 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: I truly do believe that the best chance the public 251 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 3: has at actually seeing those records, is through this Freedom 252 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 3: of Information Act lawsuit or through a Freedom of Information 253 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: Act request. 254 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: I want to get your sense of this moment and 255 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 2: all that we're learning in this moment. So we've been 256 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: talking about these government documents, the work of the House 257 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: Committee on Oversight. It's been releasing emails and photos and 258 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: banking details. Over the course of this year. You've filled 259 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 2: in a lot of details about Epstein. The've emerged in 260 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 2: his personal emails. You know, as we're speaking, news is 261 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: breaking that a judge in Florida is going to allow 262 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 2: the release of grand jury documents from case in Florida. 263 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 2: Talk a bit about sort of the way this dam 264 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: that has been in place for many years is starting 265 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: to break down, that that information is starting to come 266 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 2: out in a way that it hasn't in years past. 267 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: The fact that we are starting to see a break 268 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 3: in the dam is due to that kind of pressure 269 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: that has been placed upon those who hold the keys 270 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 3: to the safe where these documents and other types of 271 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 3: records are being held, and demands by certainly by victims, victims, 272 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 3: attorneys and lawmakers who are also realizing how did this happen? 273 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 3: You know whether it's the controversial Plea agreement or how 274 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 3: was Epstein able to fund sex trafficking operations. So lots 275 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 3: of questions that have been asked the role of financial institutions, 276 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 3: what the role is they played in facilitating all of that. So, 277 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 3: all of these questions, as well as the promises that 278 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 3: have been made to release the files, has really changed 279 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 3: the moment that you know we're in now because it 280 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 3: changed the story from Jeffrey Epstein being convicted of a 281 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 3: sex crime in Florida, being arrested for X trafficking, you know, 282 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 3: dying in his jail cell, to a big political story. 283 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: My last question has to do with this expected release 284 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: when we talk about three or gigabytes to the late person, 285 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: what is that? 286 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: Oh? 287 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 3: Man, I don't heart defiled them it. I mean, it's 288 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 3: just voluminous. It will keep us busy for a really, 289 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 3: really long time if. 290 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: We do get a release of that size. Where do you, 291 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 2: Jason Leopold, go first? What are the biggest questions that 292 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: you have and where are you most hopeful that you're 293 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: going to find yeah, new information. 294 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 3: I'll also speak from my team as well, the you know, 295 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 3: the areas that we're most interested in our money. We 296 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 3: want to continue following the money. As I mentioned, one 297 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 3: of the big stories from the series that we've reported 298 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 3: has to do with a previously unknown money laundering investigation 299 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 3: that took place alongside the sex crimes investigation in two 300 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 3: thousand and seven. In two thousand and we were able 301 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 3: to reveal a lot of details around that investigation, but 302 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 3: we really didn't get a good reason as to what ultimately. 303 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: Happened as to why it was shut down. 304 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 3: You know, was it simply a result of you know, 305 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 3: Epstein accepting the plea deal and pleading guilty and stakehourt 306 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 3: or was there something else? 307 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: Jason, Thank you very much. Thank you. 308 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. 309 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm David Germ. 310 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: If you want to hear more from Jason about prying 311 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: loose government documents, check out his new show Disclosure wherever 312 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, and subscribe to his Foil Files 313 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 2: newsletter at the link in our episode description. To get 314 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: more from The Big Take and unlimited access to all 315 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 2: of Bloomberg dot Com, subscribe today at Bloomberg dot com 316 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: slash podcast offer. If you liked this episode, make sure 317 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 2: to follow and review The Big Take Wherever you listen 318 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: to podcasts, it helps people find the show. Thanks for listening. 319 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 2: We'll be back tomorrow.