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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. In this episode number one hundred

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Speaker 1: and nineteen, Tay in the show, I'm joined my outdoor

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Speaker 1: writer Tony Hanson, and we're getting into the details of

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Speaker 1: how he approaches the challenge of bow hunting mature bucks

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Speaker 1: in areas of heavy hunting pressure. All Right, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sitka Gear.

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Speaker 1: And as I just mentioned today, I'm joined by my

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Speaker 1: friend Tony Hanson. And Tony is the guy imagine many

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Speaker 1: of you are familiar with. He's been a mainstain in

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Speaker 1: the white tailed media world for a long time now,

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Speaker 1: having been involved with Outdoor Life, Michigan's mucc magazine, Real Trees, website,

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Speaker 1: his web show Antler Geeks, even Midwest white Tail way

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Speaker 1: back in the day. And he's involved in some interesting

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Speaker 1: new things too that I'll let him share with you

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Speaker 1: in a minute. But the point is, Tony is a

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Speaker 1: guy who knows how to talk about white tails and

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Speaker 1: do it in a way that I think people can

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Speaker 1: learn from and understand, and of course he also knows

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Speaker 1: how to kill white tails too, especially in states like

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Speaker 1: where he and I both live, Michigan, where hunting pressure

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Speaker 1: is about as bad as it gets. So that said,

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Speaker 1: in a minute here we're going to dive into detail

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Speaker 1: on a whole slew of different topics related to this

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Speaker 1: one specific challenge bo hunting mature bucks in the toughest

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Speaker 1: and heaviest hunted areas of the country, and I think

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Speaker 1: you're all going to be able to take something away

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Speaker 1: from this conversation. That's said. Before we get to that,

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Speaker 1: we need to thank our partners at Sick of Gear

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Speaker 1: for their long running support of this podcast, and continue

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Speaker 1: with our brief break from our Sick Story segment, I

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Speaker 1: want to give you another quick reminder about Sitka's Diverge

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Speaker 1: photo contest that launched earlier this month, that being September. Now.

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Speaker 1: For this contest, sick is looking for the most unique

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Speaker 1: raw emotion conveying an uncommon hunting images you can put together,

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Speaker 1: and they'll be rewarding the best phototakers with some incredible

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Speaker 1: prizes including Sick of Gear, hats, clothing, go pros, the

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Speaker 1: opportunity of your photos published in print and even an

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Speaker 1: all expenses paid trip to one of my favorite places

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Speaker 1: in the world, Bozeman, Montana. So if you'd like to

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Speaker 1: learn more about the Diverge contest, or if you're ready

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Speaker 1: to submit your photos, visit sit gear dot com slash Diverge.

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Speaker 1: And with all that said, let's get right into the

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Speaker 1: interview with Tony Hanson. All right with us on the

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Speaker 1: line now? Is Tony Hanson? Welcome to show. Tony, Hey,

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Speaker 1: how's it going pretty good? Hi? I'm anxiously counting down

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Speaker 1: the next couple of days until I actually start my

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Speaker 1: white tail season. But how about you? When do you

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Speaker 1: get kicked off? Um? I haven't decided officially yet. I

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Speaker 1: have a place in Ohio that I can hunt, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I'm Kennedy's really planning to goodwn there for that opening weekend.

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Speaker 1: But I gotta kind of wait and see what the

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Speaker 1: trail cameras are telling me and if it's uh, if

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Speaker 1: it's worth headed down there, or if I need to

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Speaker 1: wait a little while. Yeah, I I always tell myself,

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Speaker 1: I want to wait a little bit longer to start

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Speaker 1: down there in Ohio, But it's it's tough not to

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Speaker 1: want to get down there. Given the fact that, as

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a little more to be excited about

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Speaker 1: sometimes compared to what way of here at home in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's for sure. So before we before we

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Speaker 1: really dive into this and what I want to talk

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Speaker 1: with you about, Tony in particular, was about some of

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Speaker 1: your experiences here in Michigan and other states like this.

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Speaker 1: But I guess before we go down that road, could

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Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about your background. You've

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Speaker 1: done a lot of interesting things in the hunting world

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Speaker 1: over the last ten years or more probably, um, and

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Speaker 1: now you're you're still doing and graces. Can you just

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Speaker 1: kind of fill us in on what your background is

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Speaker 1: and what you're doing today. Yeah. Sure. UM. So I've

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Speaker 1: been in you know, the hunting media for quite a while,

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Speaker 1: probably about twenty years or so, and I've done a

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Speaker 1: number of different things in that but most recently, you know,

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Speaker 1: I am an editor with Outdoor Life magazine. Um, just

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Speaker 1: started that quite recently. I've contributed to Outdoor Life for

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Speaker 1: probably eight or nine years, but um, it was just

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Speaker 1: brought on, you know, as an actual editor here recently.

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Speaker 1: And I'm also a land specialist with white Tail Property.

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Speaker 1: So um, looking at helping people find the type of

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Speaker 1: ground you need to hunt here in Michigan to kill

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Speaker 1: those big beer. Easier said than done, isn't it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's easy to It's it's easy to define the ground.

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Speaker 1: It's the hard part is figuring out that just because

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Speaker 1: you have great ground doesn't mean you're gonna have the

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Speaker 1: type of deer that you're looking for. There's a lot,

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Speaker 1: a lot of steps involved in Michigan. Yeah, that's the truth.

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Speaker 1: So just before we got in there to do this,

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Speaker 1: I was looking through some of our archives from Wired

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Speaker 1: Hunt podcasts and I saw that Will Brantley was on

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Speaker 1: the podcast earlier this year, and I got to thank

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Speaker 1: you and Will have had this strangely paralleled career with

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Speaker 1: you both working you know, with the Real Trees website

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Speaker 1: and Everythink That and contributing him with Hell and stream

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Speaker 1: you with Outdoor Life, and now you're both editors at

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Speaker 1: the two magazines. Who's who do you think is the

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Speaker 1: better deer hunter? You are? Will? Okay, so I'm a

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Speaker 1: better deer hunter. He's a better dear killer. So he Uh,

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Speaker 1: he's from Kentucky, and if you know guys who are

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Speaker 1: from Kentucky, there's really nothing more that needs to be

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Speaker 1: said other than they like to shoot things. So um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm probably a better deer hunter

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Speaker 1: just because I have to be um. But will Um

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Speaker 1: he's he's probably the best all around hunter that I've

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Speaker 1: ever encounter, and uh he and I are really good friends.

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Speaker 1: He's always calling me his uh Yankee brother from another mother,

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Speaker 1: and uh he he knows a whole lot about a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of stuff, but when it comes to deer

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Speaker 1: um he doesn't like to hold out very well. And

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Speaker 1: he's always getting mad at himself every year for getting

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Speaker 1: the atchy trigger finger and shooting something that looked big

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Speaker 1: at the time and then maybe he wasn't as big

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Speaker 1: as he wanted. But he can definitely hold his own

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Speaker 1: um hunting anything. So yeah, but it definitely seems like

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Speaker 1: you both have interesting and unique perspectives on a lot

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Speaker 1: of things, but you're doing a lot of the same

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Speaker 1: things to have success. And that's that's something I've respected

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Speaker 1: about both of you, is that you're both great at

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Speaker 1: getting the job done, but almost just as importantly, you're

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Speaker 1: able to communicate about it in a way that your

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Speaker 1: everyday average people can understand and learn from. Uh so so,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've said it before, but I've really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: your work. You're writing everything you've done for a long

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Speaker 1: time will too, So I'm excited to kind of try

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Speaker 1: to pick your brain apart because you share a lot

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Speaker 1: of interesting stuff in your articles, but lots of times

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in like the Nuance, and I found myself

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Speaker 1: reading something and I want to ask you a question,

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Speaker 1: but I know you're busy. I don't want to bug you.

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Speaker 1: So today kind of my my high level thought was

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Speaker 1: that we could dive into a few examples of how

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Speaker 1: you've had success hunting in states like you know, our

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Speaker 1: home state here in Michigan, and try to, you know,

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Speaker 1: pass out exactly what you're doing differently than a lot

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Speaker 1: of people because you know, as you know just as

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Speaker 1: well as me, most people in areas like this struggle

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Speaker 1: to kill mature Box. Struggled even see mature Box. So

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Speaker 1: you know, those people that are able to do that consistently,

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Speaker 1: that's something that is just so unique, and oftentimes people

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Speaker 1: are going about it in very different ways. There's usually

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Speaker 1: a few core different things that we kind of do consistently.

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Speaker 1: But then everyone at least that I talked to you you

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Speaker 1: seems to have that unique angle on exactly how they

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Speaker 1: implement that. So well, that said, I remember a few

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Speaker 1: years back, Tony, the story of this buck you killed.

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Speaker 1: I think it was called Kickers, Correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: but back in two you killed really a a world

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Speaker 1: class buck for this state in an area that is

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Speaker 1: really heavily pressured. If I remember right, I think I

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Speaker 1: saw that you killed that buck in an area where

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Speaker 1: they were like four or five different gun hunting shacks

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Speaker 1: surrounding you could see at one time. So yeah, if

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Speaker 1: that's not a pressured buck and pressure land, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what is. So I guess could you kick us

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Speaker 1: off by just telling us the story of that hunt

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Speaker 1: in that buck, and then from there we can kind

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Speaker 1: of dive into some specific tactics. Yeah. Sure. So the

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Speaker 1: property that I killed that deer on is a hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty acres and nine acres of that is tillable

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Speaker 1: crop lands, so you're dealing with thirty acres of cover. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's in a normal section from Michigan. Other than it's

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Speaker 1: it's one mile wide, so it's a mile wide north south,

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Speaker 1: it's two miles wide east west. So that's the only

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Speaker 1: variation really from any other section in the state. UM,

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Speaker 1: is that it's doesn't it doesn't have a road at

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Speaker 1: that first mile, so it goes two miles. It's typical

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Speaker 1: southern Michigan farm ground. UM. You know, nobody else can

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Speaker 1: hunt the dred acres. I hunt except the landowner. UM,

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Speaker 1: and he doesn't hunt very much. The other pieces are hunted,

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Speaker 1: you know, as hard and actually harder over the years

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Speaker 1: is they've kind of figured out that either they figured

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Speaker 1: out there's a good deer on the piece I'm hunting,

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Speaker 1: or they figured out that I'm hunting it and they

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Speaker 1: want to get in there. So every year it's gotten

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Speaker 1: a little bit more pressured than previously. But they hunt

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Speaker 1: right on the property line. There's gun shacks on the

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Speaker 1: property line on three of four sides. The fourth side

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Speaker 1: is a road, so they can't have a gun shack there.

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Speaker 1: But UM, I've hunted it one time on the opening

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Speaker 1: day of shotgun season, and UM I saw eight different

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Speaker 1: hunters that opening day. Um they were all four of

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Speaker 1: them were sitting within you know, I could see them

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Speaker 1: physically the entire time. The other four came after they

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Speaker 1: started shooting. UM, and we're like, quote unquote tracking deer.

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Speaker 1: Two of them were within ten yards of the property

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Speaker 1: line and had trim shooting lanes into the property line,

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Speaker 1: so they were shooting onto the property, couldn't shoot any

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Speaker 1: other direction. So, UM, it's not a it's a special

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Speaker 1: place because of how I hunt it. But it's not

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Speaker 1: a special place. You know, it's not like it's a

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Speaker 1: thousand acres nobody can hunt. Um, it's no different than

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Speaker 1: any place else. The only difference is I have a

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Speaker 1: sanctuary on there that I don't go into. So I

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Speaker 1: first got permission to hunt the property probably six years ago,

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Speaker 1: and the first thing I did was realized, Okay, there's

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Speaker 1: this really thick area. It's kind of a it's it's

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Speaker 1: like a march that's being reclaimed, is the way I

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Speaker 1: would you describe it. Sometimes it's pretty wet and boggy,

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Speaker 1: but most of the time it's just kind of dry

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Speaker 1: with some mucky spots and there's tall grass and um,

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Speaker 1: brushy scrubby trees in there. Well, he can't you can't

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Speaker 1: really hunt it because you can't get in it. So

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Speaker 1: that's just off limits. That's about probably ten acres and um,

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Speaker 1: we never ever go in there, and that's where all

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Speaker 1: the deer are, so when the neighbors pressure, all the

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Speaker 1: deer go in there. When they come on to where

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Speaker 1: I can see them, they're coming out of there. If

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Speaker 1: I spooky deer, it's going in there. So I just don't.

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Speaker 1: I know that's a sanctuary, and I don't hunt it.

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Speaker 1: About the third year that I was shunning there, I

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Speaker 1: had a three year old buck that it was a

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Speaker 1: pretty good eight pointer. I sort of wanted to shooting,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't really care if I didn't, and um,

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Speaker 1: I ended up passing on him one time because it

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00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 1: wasn't a great shot. Had a bunch of truck camera

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Speaker 1: pictures of him. The next year I got photos of him.

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Speaker 1: He started to throw some kickers off his G two.

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Speaker 1: That's how he got a name kicker. And I hunted

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Speaker 1: him pretty hard and um actually missed him as a

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Speaker 1: four year old and just stupid hit a branch. He

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Speaker 1: came out at one in the afternoon, caught me off guard,

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Speaker 1: and I hit a branch and missed him. The next

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Speaker 1: year as a five year old. UM, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: any photos of him until mid October, and I actually

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Speaker 1: never had any photos of him anytime before mid October.

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Speaker 1: He just didn't show up until then, and I never

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Speaker 1: actually saw him on the hoof that hunting season. So

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Speaker 1: the following year, when he was six could have been seven,

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Speaker 1: because I didn't really recognize him until he was what

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Speaker 1: I thought was three, So he was either six or seven,

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Speaker 1: and I had a few photos of him. Um again,

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Speaker 1: not until mid October and only at night, and it

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Speaker 1: was early November. I think it might have actually been

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Speaker 1: November one, but I don't remember the date exactly. I

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Speaker 1: had hunted a stay him. It overlooks the sanctuary. It's

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Speaker 1: an observation stand where I can get in there on

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Speaker 1: the right wind and I can watch that sanctuary place.

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Speaker 1: And I hadn't seen kicker at all. And the guy

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Speaker 1: that was videoing with me, I told him, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is like the third year that I've been hunting

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Speaker 1: this deer, the second year. Seriously, I can't just keep

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Speaker 1: doing this because I'm not I'm not shooting any deer,

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Speaker 1: and maybe this deer is not killable because he never

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Speaker 1: shows up in any other place except you know, this

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Speaker 1: one little small area. We haven't seen him. If we

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Speaker 1: don't see him this morning here in the sanctuary, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna give up on him I'm gonna go hunting

250
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Speaker 1: some other deer, and we didn't see him. I got

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Speaker 1: to be about eleven in the morning. It's pretty windy,

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Speaker 1: so I said, let's just climb down, head to the truck,

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Speaker 1: grab something beat and go to this back section where

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Speaker 1: I had a small food plot where there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of year around it, and I said, let's just

256
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Speaker 1: find another deer to hunt. So we walked in on

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Speaker 1: a pass um. There's a lot of tall grass that

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Speaker 1: you have to walk through, and I had drove my

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Speaker 1: full wheel are up and down to make a path,

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Speaker 1: which is something I had not done before. But I

261
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 1: was I was thinking the way I was normally walking

262
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,440
Speaker 1: into the stand. It was an easy way, but it

263
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,920
Speaker 1: probably wasn't the right way because I was going through

264
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Speaker 1: too much of the stuff that I thought dear could

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Speaker 1: bet in or would cross my track. So we went

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Speaker 1: down this pool wheelerge trail and we climbed into the stand,

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Speaker 1: and maybe twenty minutes later, um kicker got out of

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Speaker 1: his bed and walked right into us, directly down wind.

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Speaker 1: The entire time, he wouldn't go on the food plot

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Speaker 1: because the wind wasn't you know, for him to get

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Speaker 1: in the food plot. The wind was wrong for him.

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Speaker 1: He wanted the wind to be in his face the

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Speaker 1: whole time. So we're hunting the stand with the quote

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Speaker 1: unquote right wind for the food plot. But those big

275
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Speaker 1: ones they won't do that. He walked in down wind

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Speaker 1: the entire time. Why he didn't smell us, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And he got to about forty eight yards and and

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Speaker 1: I shot him, and that was that. Wow, there's about

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Speaker 1: eight different things you mentioned that story that I kind

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Speaker 1: of thought about. Okay, that was probably something that helped

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Speaker 1: to have success this time, And that was probably something.

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Speaker 1: But I'm curious for you, what stands out for you

283
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Speaker 1: is like the big thing or two that actually resulted

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Speaker 1: it working out this time. Well, the first and most

285
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Speaker 1: important thing is that I knew where that deer lived

286
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Speaker 1: basically for three years, and the rutt with old like

287
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Speaker 1: truly mature dear, not three year olds, probably not four

288
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Speaker 1: year olds, but truly mature dear in pressured areas. Dirut

289
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Speaker 1: is exceptionally different than everybody thinks it is. So the

290
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Speaker 1: previous um when he was a four year old and

291
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,480
Speaker 1: I had missed him, that was around of October, so

292
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,920
Speaker 1: he was coming out at midday looking for dose. The

293
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 1: first dough was to come into heat. Well after I

294
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 1: missed him. A day or two later, we saw that

295
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 1: deer every day for ten days, and he was on

296
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Speaker 1: a neighbor's piece, and he had six or seven does,

297
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: and he was it was basically almost like last year.

298
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Speaker 1: It was read it by a house. He never left

299
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Speaker 1: ten days. And I think that's what these really whole maturity.

300
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Speaker 1: They don't have a run like what most people think

301
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,360
Speaker 1: they're gonna be out chasing does. They're not running around silly.

302
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 1: They get the first coming to heat, they put her

303
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 1: into an area they feel safe and they keep her there,

304
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 1: and other knows that come into that area they know

305
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,480
Speaker 1: that the dominant. When they're ready to breathe, that's where

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00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 1: they go. So you have an exceptionally small window to

307
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 1: kill these really big deer. They're not out chasing does.

308
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 1: They're not out running willingly stilly around like they do

309
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Speaker 1: where there's a lot of them in the pressure the

310
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Speaker 1: competition for dozes high. So the big chicky for me

311
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Speaker 1: was knowing that if I didn't see that between around

312
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 1: the twenty eighth of October in the second of November,

313
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Speaker 1: I probably had no chanceletsoever to kill him because he

314
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 1: was going to lock down and not move, and I

315
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,680
Speaker 1: didn't know where he would be. So the biggest key

316
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 1: was I started hunting a little bit sooner than I

317
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Speaker 1: normally would have in those sanctuary those really good, you know,

318
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,679
Speaker 1: kind of risky areas to hunt, and I got lucky

319
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 1: and made the move. You know. That was the second

320
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,879
Speaker 1: key was I came in on a path where I

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Speaker 1: didn't spook him out of his bed. If I had

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Speaker 1: walked our normal path, I absolutely would have jumped in

323
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Speaker 1: no question, because where he stood up out of his bed,

324
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,960
Speaker 1: it was within fifteen yards of where we'd normally walked,

325
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 1: and he knew that That's why he was betting there

326
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,919
Speaker 1: because I think he had seen us do it before

327
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,119
Speaker 1: or knew that that was an entrance route for people,

328
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 1: and he was in a place where he he could

329
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Speaker 1: slip away if he didn't if anybody showed up. But

330
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,440
Speaker 1: we went around him and got into that stand. So

331
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 1: knowing exactly how those big deer used the route was

332
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 1: a big key, and using a different entrance was a

333
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 1: big key. But the I mean the biggest key of

334
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,719
Speaker 1: all is that deer was pressured everywhere except where I hunted,

335
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: and I don't hunt early season. I mean, I I

336
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,479
Speaker 1: can count on one hand the number of times I've

337
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,560
Speaker 1: hunted that particular property before the October. I just don't

338
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,720
Speaker 1: do it. There's no point in it because the big

339
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 1: deer aren't really up on their feet in daylight. There's

340
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 1: so many other deer that can spook you and mess

341
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 1: things up that it's just not worth it. The window

342
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: to kill these deer is crazy small, and it sucks

343
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 1: because I'd love to go the whole month of October.

344
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 1: I'd love to hunt them every day, but you just

345
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: can't do it because they react so quickly. Tanny Fresher, Yeah, Now,

346
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 1: speaking of the window of opportunity for these types of deer,

347
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 1: do you recall what the other conditions were on that day?

348
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: A wind or weather? Was there anything else that helped

349
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,199
Speaker 1: make sure that deer was up on his feet and

350
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 1: moving and during daily Yeah, I mean it was cold

351
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 1: and it was pretty pretty windy in the morning. I mean,

352
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,439
Speaker 1: that's what kind of drove me out of the observation

353
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 1: stand in the first place. I intended to sit there

354
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 1: until about one or two, but the wind was just

355
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,200
Speaker 1: hitting us right in the face and it was cold wind,

356
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 1: and um, I just got frustrated in cold and said

357
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,679
Speaker 1: let's move because I hadn't seen him. But in a

358
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: lot of ways, I don't. I mean, obviously I like

359
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 1: it when we get a cold front, and I like

360
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 1: it when the conditions are good, but I don't think

361
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,959
Speaker 1: the weather had nearly as much impact on them as

362
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,719
Speaker 1: people think. When those dos are getting ready to come in,

363
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,880
Speaker 1: they're going to run. Last year was a great example

364
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: because we had a pretty warm period there for that

365
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: first week in November, and I was seeing every book

366
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 1: that I knew was mature or close to it that

367
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:56,960
Speaker 1: I thought I would see during the rut. I mean,

368
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 1: I walked in at midday and it was like eighty

369
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,160
Speaker 1: degrees and I saw all four of those deer. They

370
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 1: were all up getting ready, you know, kind of cruising

371
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 1: around because the first doors were starting to come in,

372
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: and they didn't care that it was eighty degrees. They

373
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 1: were up doing what they do. You know, they might

374
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 1: they might be down earlier, but it's not the bucks

375
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: doing it. It's the doughs. I mean, the dos spend

376
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: more time bettered when it's hot, not the bucks. If

377
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 1: the does are up, the bucks will be up. They

378
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 1: don't care what the weather is. They're going to do

379
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 1: what the does do. So, I mean the weather can

380
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: have some impact, but I don't think it's quite as

381
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 1: dramatic as people think, and I think we think of

382
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: it the wrong way. It's not you're not laying down.

383
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 1: The bucks aren't laying down because they're hot. The doughs

384
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 1: are laying down because they're hot. You know, if you

385
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: find the doughs and get in their area, the bucks

386
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 1: will be there too. Yeah, that makes sense. Can you

387
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: elaborate a little bit on your point about how some

388
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,919
Speaker 1: of these mature bucks operate differently during the rut in

389
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 1: areas like Michigan are really heavily pressured areas. Is there

390
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: is there anything different other than the fact that they're

391
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: just not chasing as much. Do you either timing different

392
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: or anything else? Yeah, I mean the timing is the

393
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: timing for the quote unquote kick is very is for me,

394
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,840
Speaker 1: is very different because they locked down um so much sooner.

395
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,400
Speaker 1: So in in a place like Iowa or Ohio where

396
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot of mature bucks and you know, maybe

397
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 1: there's the dough to buck ratio is a little bit better,

398
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: or maybe it's not. There's just more older bucks that

399
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 1: are going to battle for those doughs. They need to

400
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 1: move around and find those that they can get without

401
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: being bullied off by another buck. And some of your

402
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 1: three and four year old bucks that are sub dominant,

403
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 1: the ones that people end up shooting, well, they're they're

404
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: not going to get those. They got to really search

405
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 1: because there's enough truly dominant deer to keep them away

406
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: from those first early you know, cycling does in Michigan.

407
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: There's no such thing that a truly mature buck is

408
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 1: going to get as many as wants, and nobody's gonna

409
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: challenge him in his primary He's learned, you know, after

410
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 1: four or five years, if he walks around, he gets

411
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: shot at, so he doesn't do it. He's got a

412
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 1: set number of places where he feels safe and he

413
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: won't go anywhere else. He doesn't need to because the

414
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: doughs are going to come to him because those safe

415
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: places where they feel safe too. So you got to

416
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: think about, you know, as as it gets into late October,

417
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: these deer are not only you know, starting to feel

418
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 1: more ruddy, they felt a continual increase in human activity

419
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 1: in the woods since mid September and more guys sail.

420
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 1: Here comes the rut. You know, we're gonna hunt more. Well.

421
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: The deer know that, so they start compressing that home range.

422
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: They don't expand that home range during the rut. They

423
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: would if people weren't there, but because there's more people,

424
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: when they leave their home range and they're like, oh,

425
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: I smell somebody, I gotta go back. You know, they're

426
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: always going to put survivals first, and and everybody knows

427
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: that because if you see a buck chasing the dough

428
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: and you spook him, does not run away, Yes he does.

429
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: Now he may run with the dough if she runs

430
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: his you know the same path. But if you're in

431
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: between the sucking the dough and you ste him, he's gone.

432
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: So it's not that they lose all sensibility. They don't.

433
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: Survival is still number one. So what they're gonna do

434
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: is they're gonna have smaller home ranges. They're gonna find

435
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: them first does because nobody's challenging them. When they get

436
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: those first does, they're going right into that sanctuary and

437
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: they're going to stay for a week. The lockdown here

438
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: is worse than in a lot of ways. It's worse

439
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: than any other state that I've hunted, because they simply

440
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: don't have to chase those. To your point, when I've

441
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,239
Speaker 1: when I think back on all, you know, my my

442
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: years here, where I'm really been paying attention to things

443
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: in Michigan, I don't really see a whole lot of

444
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: you know, new bucks during the rut. You know, in

445
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: most areas you talk, you hear about these roamers that

446
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: show up, these new bonus bucks wherever in the rut,

447
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: cruising from somewhere else. I never see that, at least

448
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: on my main Michigan properties. Is that something you're seeing

449
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: to just a lack of that, Yeah, I don't. I

450
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: mean I don't see new bucks in general around and

451
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: see the place where I hunt, where I feel like

452
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: I have my best chance at shooting older deer. I

453
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: don't have any bucks there right now. I don't have

454
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: any photos. I never do. It's it's around the fifteenth

455
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: of October that they show up, and that's because they're

456
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: getting kicked off of other places, and then they come

457
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 1: to where they know they've been safe before and by

458
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: around Halloween. You know, if I've done my trail cameras

459
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: correctly on scrapes and you know, spent some time. I

460
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: probably I probably know of the bucks that are there.

461
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: I've gotten pictures or I've seen them. Um, I don't

462
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: see any different ones almost ever. And late season, if

463
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: you know, a bean field gets left, maybe I'll pick

464
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: up a buck. But even then, dear, I'm seeing after

465
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: gun season the bucks, they're the same ones I've seen

466
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: all wall. Um, so no, I don't. I don't have

467
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, really new ones come in, maybe some yearlings,

468
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: but I don't really pay attention enough to them to

469
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: know if they're new or not. Right right, So, So,

470
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: given this kind of unique element to the rut here

471
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: in states like this, where there is this lack of chasing,

472
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot of greater kind of emphasis on the

473
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: lockdown period, how do you typically hunt? Because it sounds

474
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 1: like when you're hunting kicker that was a little bit

475
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: different because you knew where the specific buck was better.

476
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: Maybe that's how you always do it, But I guess

477
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: how do you approach the rut in that type of

478
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: situation from a hunting standpoint? I really, I really have to,

479
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 1: I really rely on the trail cameras and if I

480
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: don't have a picture of a mature year um before October,

481
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna hunt there. And you know, last year

482
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 1: in Michigan, I just didn't hunt here. I had one

483
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 1: pretty old dear that was five years old, but he

484
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: hadn't grown anything for frantlers since age three. He was

485
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: bigger at age three than at age five. I actually

486
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: hunted uh the edge of the bean field whatever. The

487
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: first fifth or sixth of October were the first time

488
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: I hunted, and there was a bunch of oaks dropping

489
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: acorns there and I felt like, you know, I had

490
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: the right wind. It was a little we had a

491
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: cold front ice and I told myself every year I've

492
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: seen this gear, he's living in this part. If he's there,

493
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: he's coming out tonight. And he did. And I passed

494
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: him at ten yards because he just he hadn't grown

495
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: anything antler wise, and he would just be a fantastic

496
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: deer for my son to shoot. So I let him go.

497
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 1: He hunted him all both season, had a bunch of encounters,

498
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: didn't shoot him, and then he ended up killing him

499
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: the muzzle letter season. But that was the only mature

500
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: deer that I had two Michigan Michigan hunt so I

501
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: pretty much just hunted dolls and went you know to

502
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: other places. I basically didn't hunt here. So if I

503
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: don't have a picture of a big you know and

504
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: a big mature deer by the October, um, I just

505
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: don't hunt that place because I don't think they're gonna

506
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: show up now. If I do, then I'm gonna hunt

507
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: starting around and I'm gonna get into those thicker transition

508
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: area is fairly tight to where I think they're betting

509
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: and and be pretty aggressive until you know, either I

510
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: see them or shoot them or screw something up. But

511
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: by the fifth sh of November it gets awfully tough

512
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 1: on those really big ones because they pretty much get

513
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: those does and they're locked down pretty hard. Yeah. So

514
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: are you focusing sounds like you're focusing more on transition

515
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: bedding versus life funnels and pinch points at that time. Yeah.

516
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: I mean, our funnels and pinch points in Michigan are

517
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: quite different than say Iowa, where you have a you know,

518
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: a very obvious ditch that they can't get down or

519
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: don't want to get down. We don't have a lot

520
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: of terrain that you're won't readily cross, and sometimes you

521
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: can use cover like a fence row or something, but

522
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: sometimes there's free stands in those fence rows and they

523
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: won't use those. So I'm primarily focusing on where the

524
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: doze bed, where the thickest cover is that the dose

525
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: will be. That leads to where the bucks will wave up,

526
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: So it's more of an edge than an actual funnel

527
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: or a pitch point. And then within that edge, you know,

528
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: I'll try to figure out the best place to kind

529
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: of squeeze them down as best I can. But you know,

530
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: so many of our woodlots are squares, so there's not

531
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: a lot of funnels and pinch points in there. Yeah,

532
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: you talked about the trail camera piece. How you're you're

533
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: really focusing on whether or not you've got I'm ature

534
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: buck on camera by that late October time frame. How

535
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: are you using trail cameras at that time specifically to

536
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: figure that out? Well, the key is and it's I

537
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: can only do this m one of the places that

538
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: I hunt. Um you have to use the four wheeler

539
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: or something like you can't or the cameras that send

540
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: pictures to you. They're great too. And I've got slack

541
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: you know with this before because people in the even

542
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: Jeff Sturgis and I disagree. And Jeff is a fantastic

543
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: deer hunter, but he does not like it when people

544
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: use four wheelers. I killed Kicker because I used a

545
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: four wheeler. I check my cameras. I drive right up

546
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: to them, and I try to start like in August,

547
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: so that at least once a week they hear that

548
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: four wheeler and I drive right up to where the

549
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: cameras are. I leave it running when I hang tree stands.

550
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: I leave it running anytime I'm doing anything else, and

551
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: I don't try to be quiet. I don't try to

552
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: hide what I'm doing. I need those dear to get

553
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: used to the sound of that four wheeler not associated

554
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: with any danger um. Otherwise I can't check the cameras

555
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: because I'm going to spook deer. It's just not a

556
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: big enough area to not The sanctuary is, you know,

557
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: let's stay inside of the ten anchors. But you gotta

558
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: remember that only leaves me twenty acres to hunt, so

559
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: I can't physically get to where I want to check

560
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: the cameras without at least rustling some leaves or making

561
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: some sort of noise. So I don't even try to

562
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: be quiet, I take the foiler in there, check the cameras.

563
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna check them about once a week, you know,

564
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: just to stay on that pattern. I hang them on

565
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: uh scrapes wherever I can. I've not really had any

566
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: luck making my own scrapes, just not not had to work.

567
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: But you know, I kind of know where some traditional

568
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: scraping areas are, so I'm hanging them on those scrapes.

569
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: I'm hanging them on the edges of bean fields where

570
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: I can to get a lot of photos. And I'm

571
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: just putting them in those high traffic areas and checking

572
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: them once a week until something shows up. Do you

573
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: do you paying attention to where you place your cameras

574
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: in regards to height or like, do you put them

575
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: way high and angle down? If you're lots of different

576
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: opinions on whether cameras are spooking deer just from the

577
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: flash or noise or anything like that, what do you

578
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: think about that? I don't. I've not noticed. I mean,

579
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: I've noticed dear looking at the camera. I've noticed, you know,

580
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: where it seems like they saw it. But you know,

581
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: I to plan the photos a kicker and he didn't care.

582
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: So I'm assuming if he didn't care, No, dear, I

583
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: will care now. I don't use you know, I don't

584
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: have the cameras that have the big white flash ball.

585
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: It's just the normal you know l eds. But um,

586
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: I just put them normal height. I don't angle him.

587
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: I you know, sometimes I put him too low or

588
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: too high and screw up, but not intentionally. Right. Um,

589
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: this this kinds oft to the sanctuary. I want to

590
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: go back to that you were talking about the sanctuary

591
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: the kicker was on, and I've got kind of similar

592
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: situation like that where I've got a nice big swamp

593
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: um that I've tried to leave as a sanctuary. But

594
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: similar to what you have, I've got neighbors hunting right

595
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: on the property line, which unfortunately is the line the

596
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: edge of that sanctuary. So I'm curious about two things

597
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: that you've seen. You know, One, how do you think

598
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: your neighbors impact that sanctuary? And then number two, what

599
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: about the wind specifically with neighbors. I mean, what if

600
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: you've got a guy that's hunting on the line of

601
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: that sanctuary with this wind blowing into your sanctuary quote

602
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: unquote your sanctuary every day or every weekend or something.

603
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: Does that just conclude negate the effectiveness of leaving that

604
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: area there alone. Nope, it's perfect. Um. Part of it

605
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: is just luck. So if you think about so, I

606
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: told you that the property is basically a square. The

607
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: road is the east boy, so the neighbor property is

608
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: on the west boundary. So which when we have west winds,

609
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: which we have mostly when they go into hunt, their

610
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: wind is blowing right into the sanctuary. And that's awesome

611
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: because I know no big bucks will be killed that

612
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: day by them. I hope like crazy. On the opening

613
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: day against season, I need two things. I either need

614
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: a west wind or I needed to be calm, because

615
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: if it's calm and they come in those deer, it's done. Um,

616
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: it's they're done before before daylight on opening day, it's over.

617
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: They're not going to kill one. The only chance they

618
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: have is that there was a buck outside of that

619
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: sanctuary or whatever, and he's coming across their place to

620
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: get back into it. But they have really good cover.

621
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 1: They have way better piece of property than I can up,

622
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: way better. The cover is way better, there's more of it.

623
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: They have the best piece in that section, and I'm

624
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: sure they kill some good ones. I just don't know

625
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: about it, but when they come in and the winds

626
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: from the west, I'm pretty confident they're not gonna shoot

627
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: any deer there, you know, because the deer know it.

628
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 1: They know where the fent is. They know they're safe

629
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: because nobody's coming in at them from the east, and

630
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: they know if they just stay put, they'll be fine.

631
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: So I think it helps you to have some guys

632
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: on the edge if the winds blowing in there. If

633
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: they're on the edge and the wind is not blowing

634
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: in there, that's a different story that can be tough.

635
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: But usually those deer, I mean, when they have a sanctuary,

636
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: that's that's where they're spending the majority of their lives.

637
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 1: They know what happens, they know what's going on, they

638
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: know when someone walks in, they know where they've encountered

639
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: people and stands their blinds before, and they just don't

640
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: do it if you're hunting him. That's another thing that

641
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: I've People think this sounds crazy, but I think kicker

642
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 1: knew I was hunting him. But I hadn't killed any

643
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: bucks there for what three years. I hadn't even really

644
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: killed any deer. Because where we shoot, the dose is

645
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: nowhere near where those deer are. I'm not sure he

646
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: equitted me with danger. I hadn't heard anything. You know,

647
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: he might have seen me, might have smelled me. But

648
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: I've never done anything to him. I've never done anything

649
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: to any other deer. You know. I can drive in

650
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: there with the four wheeler and the deer will not

651
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: leave the field, So they don't think I'm that scary.

652
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: And so that gives you just a little slight margin.

653
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: That might be when the wind was blowing at him.

654
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: You know, I had done all the same control stuff

655
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: I could. He had to have smelled a little bit,

656
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 1: and he might have just thought, oh, it's just that guy,

657
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: and he's not close. You know, he's not that close

658
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: because I don't smell him that great, you know. And

659
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: if you watch the video, I mean, I hit my

660
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: bow on the cameraman stand and it claimed hard, and

661
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: he looked right up at me, and he didn't he

662
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: didn't run. So I don't know, what do you What

663
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: do you think about these bucks in Michigan or wherever,

664
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: or maybe maybe you think it's different. I'm curious, how

665
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: do you think these deer, these mature bucks use the

666
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: wind to their advantages? I mean, I hear some people

667
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 1: think they always travel with a wind in their face.

668
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: I've heard some people that think sometimes they travel with

669
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: it behind them so they can watch what's in front

670
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: of them or smell what's behind him. I mean, what's

671
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: your take on all that. I think they always they

672
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: always used the wind to their advantage, and I think

673
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: most of the time they have it in their face.

674
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: And I think that's probably something I do a little

675
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: bit different than other guys. When the wind is right

676
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: for a tree stay in for me, I don't hunt

677
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: it because I don't think a big one is going

678
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: to come through that. Whatever I'm hunting, whether it's a

679
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: food plot or a small funnel or an edge, He's

680
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,839
Speaker 1: not going to walk down that edge if he can't

681
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: smell where he thinks dangerous. So you have to cheat it.

682
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: You have to either get it quartering enough that the

683
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: deer feel safe, and you have to know you have

684
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: to shoot him at a certain spot before he gets

685
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: you know, exactly. Don't wind, but I hunt. You know,

686
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: if I'm hunting a trail or an edge and I

687
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: expect the deer to come from the north, I'm going

688
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: to hunt some sort of a north whid or a

689
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: south wind, because I want the wind blowing at the deer.

690
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: I just have to figure out how to do it

691
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: so that it's blowing at the deer. But I'm not

692
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: necessarily blowing at the deer because if it was blowing

693
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: away from them, they're not coming down that trail. They

694
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: just won't do it. They. I mean, if you think

695
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: about how many deer hunters are a square mile, there's

696
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: no way an old buck is just going to walk around.

697
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: He knows he's going to get shot because he's been

698
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: shot at. So they don't do it. It's not in Kansas, Iowa. Don't.

699
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: I don't even care about the wind. I mean they,

700
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: I mean I I still I still try to follow it,

701
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: but I'm not nearly as worried about it as because

702
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: I am anywhere else. Have you seen anything here in

703
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: these pressured areas in regards to how they're using wind

704
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: to choose where they bed Do you think that they're

705
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,479
Speaker 1: betting in different areas based on one direction? No? I think,

706
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I think they've so yes and no. I

707
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 1: think they're picking the bedding locations based on where they're

708
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: not going to encounter people. So I think throughout the fall.

709
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: They have a process of movement issue. They they have

710
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: preferred food sources, they have preferred areas. If they don't

711
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: encounter people, they keep using them. But as soon as

712
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: they encounter people, they keep whittling it down until two

713
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: things happen. One they find a spot that they like

714
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: they're not getting messed with by people, or the rut

715
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: starts to come. So that's why I always say, you know,

716
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: if I can find a buck or get a picture

717
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: of him after the twentieth of October, I'm pretty confident

718
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hunt that dear the entire rest of the

719
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: deer season because he won't leave even if I spook him.

720
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: I don't think he's gonna leave because he's already eliminated

721
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: all these other spots and he knows the ruts coming.

722
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: I can't keep bumping around. I gotta start establishing myself

723
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: here so I can get some of these goes so

724
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: you can get away with a little bit more. But

725
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: I think where they pick their beds is where they

726
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: feel the most safe, and the wind is part of that,

727
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: but more of it is they're not running into people,

728
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: so they might bed there because they can smell a

729
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: certain direction, but they won't bet there. They could smell

730
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,919
Speaker 1: a certain direction and it's not thick enough, or they're

731
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: being left alone, they still won't bed there. To um

732
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: to the idea of figuring out, you know, where these

733
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: bucks are if there's a buck on this property, like

734
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: you said, if if you've got one there, you know,

735
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: late October, he's probably gonna stay there because of all

736
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: these other areas off of Is there anything else you're

737
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: doing other than just having a camera on a scrape

738
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: or something like that and identify that there is a

739
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: buck there. Is there anything else other than that you're

740
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: doing to actually try to pattern specific bucks throughout the fall,

741
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: Not really because I don't. I mean I don't necessarily

742
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: hunt dear on patterns because they getting patterns during the

743
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: early season when they're on you know, bad to feed.

744
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: And sure I tried to do that. I mean, I

745
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: have my cameras running right now and I'm hoping a

746
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: big one shows up that I can pattern because there's

747
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: no acorns in my section this year except two big

748
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: white oaks that are full. That's a dream because if

749
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: I can find a big one that's living there, I

750
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: know where he's coming in early October, but I don't

751
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: have any pictures to justify it. But so I'm not

752
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: really hunting patterns. I'm hunting like places they'll they'll go

753
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: through to find those to crue. So I know where that,

754
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: you know, the thickest spots are. I know where the

755
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: edges are that they want to use to travel to

756
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: find those doughs. And so I'm not really hunting. I

757
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: guess that's a pattern, but it's not like it's not

758
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 1: a normal pattern. It's I'm just hunting where I think

759
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 1: these you are going to end up walking through looking

760
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: for dose. Yeah, so is that when you're figuring that

761
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: kind of stuff out? Is that always preseason, you know,

762
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: February March, or are you actually doing some scouting in

763
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: season for that kind of thing or other stuff? In Michigan,

764
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: it's anymore. It's you know, I've hunted the same places

765
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: for several years, so I learned it. But generally if

766
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: it's a new area, um, you have to learn it

767
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: kind of in season. You can look outside of the

768
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: season and say, Okay, this is the this is the

769
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: thickest area. I think this is where they're gonna move through.

770
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: But if you don't establish that as a sanctuary area

771
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: and you just hunt it, then you're changing everything that

772
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: they do. I mean, it's so important to have a

773
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: place where it's like a you know, ground zero. You

774
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: need a ground zero where those deer will always go

775
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: to and always come from. And the only way they'll

776
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: do that is if it's not getting pressured. And sometimes

777
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: you get lucky and you can have a place like that,

778
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: and sometimes you don't. But generally, even if you're sharing

779
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: a property with three or four guys, there's usually a

780
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: place people don't look at or they won't hunt for

781
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: some reason, and that's probably where a lot of those

782
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: deer end up and stay. So if you have that

783
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: sanctuary established, and you have that ground zero where they're

784
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: coming and where they're going, and you learn that over

785
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: time and you hunt a place, that's what everything revolves around.

786
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: Like I already know what I'll do on the place

787
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: you know that I'll hunt. The three places I'll hunt

788
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: this fall in Michigan, I already know how all hunt

789
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: them because I have a few years of experience, and

790
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: I know where those either true sanctuaries are or as

791
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: close to a sanctuary as I can get. So that's

792
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna focus on I'm gonna hunt them coming

793
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: in and out of that. Can you could you walk

794
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: us through that plan, that hypothetical plan, you know, starting

795
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: from opening day, like on one of these let's say,

796
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious about how you would approach,

797
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: you know, the first month and a half before gun

798
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: season on one of these properties. You know, if you

799
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: could think of some example scenarios and walk us through

800
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: how you might transition through that period with how you

801
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: hunt it based on what you know. Yeah, so I'm

802
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: already doing the weekly trail camera checks. So the trail

803
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: cameras right now, we're on you know, the edge of

804
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: being fields because we can't use anything else. We can't

805
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: use any mineral anymore. So you know, the edges is

806
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: of being fields pointed down the woodline so I can

807
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: try to get as many photos as I can, or

808
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: small fu plots if I have, and I'm already establishing

809
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: myself in those areas with the four wheeler. Um so

810
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: the dear no when they hear it or they have

811
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of disturbance that they're all right, they

812
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: don't need to run away, and eventually they get used

813
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: to it and I'm just hoping I see, you know,

814
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 1: a deer it I can that I want to shoot.

815
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: If I see one that I want to shoot on

816
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: the camera, I keep the camera going. I hope nothing changes.

817
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: I hope the beans don't start turning yellow before October five,

818
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: where everything changes, and I also start looking for those acorns,

819
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: because there that's going to trump the beans even if

820
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: they stay green. So on the one place I've already

821
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: found the two trees that have acorns, I already have

822
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: a tree stand there um just because it's been there before.

823
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: So if a buck shows up in daylight within eight

824
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: to ten days of the opener, I'm gonna hunt him,

825
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna hunting right on the edge of that

826
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: um field where the acorns are, when the wind's right,

827
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: and I'll keep hunting him until I either shoot him

828
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: or the photos you know, turn out to be nothing

829
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: but nighttime, or I feel like I spooked them. So

830
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: then I'll give it probably to around the tent of October,

831
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: and if I haven't shot him, I'm out of there

832
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: because by then the beans will start turning, things will

833
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: start changing, and I don't want to be caught in

834
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: that transition where I don't know what he's doing, and

835
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: I don't know where he's going, and I don't want to.

836
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to chase him out of there, you know.

837
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 1: So once once the tenth of October comes and usually

838
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: that never happens. I usually don't have any dear, dont

839
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: you know, So once the tenth of October comes around,

840
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: I start doing a bunch more work and getting caught up,

841
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,439
Speaker 1: getting prepared for for the rut. And and I'll still

842
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: hunt during that time. I'll take my son out because

843
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, he's playing football and everything. He doesn't have

844
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: the luxury of waiting. So we hunt every weekend on

845
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: you know, someplace where we don't feel like we're doing

846
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: any damage by hunting it um. And he, you know,

847
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: he's still at that point where he doesn't you know,

848
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: he pulls out for big bucks, but he doesn't care.

849
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: You know, he's not at that point where he really

850
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: needs to shoot a five year old. He'll shoot a

851
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: three year old button Um, he just won't shoot your

852
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: mast or two and a half. So we've got that

853
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: mid October time frame then coming up. Are you you

854
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: just other than hunting with your son? Are you waiting

855
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: until you get to that late October time from them

856
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: next to that pretty much. I mean, and honestly everybody

857
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: talks about, you know, the October law. Um, that's around

858
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: the fifteenth is when things really start to pick up.

859
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: For me. I start to get a lot of different

860
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: box contrail camera and that's when I start to figure

861
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: out what I have because the October law is is

862
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: not real. Um dear. They don't stop moving there on

863
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 1: the fact, they're moving more all the way through October.

864
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: What they do is they get away from the people

865
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 1: that are hunting them, and they start to change as

866
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: the food sources changed, So the beams start to yellow

867
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: and brown. They're out of them until they're completely brown.

868
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: You know, um, corn is a little bit different. Some

869
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: of it starts coming off that doesn't that doesn't come

870
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: off as pretty dried down, and you know, they don't

871
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: like pulling it off the stocks if they don't have to.

872
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: And there's usually acorns, you know, you get that. We

873
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: usually get a fair bit of rain in the fall.

874
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: So any of the brows is starting to get sweeter

875
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 1: because it's had that influx of moisture and it's starting

876
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: to get ready to die. So all those sugars start

877
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: to be released after frost, just like Braska plants. You know,

878
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: natural forage does the same thing. So there's no law.

879
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: The deer have just changed. They're moving into different areas,

880
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: and I'm starting to see a lot more bucks on

881
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: the cameras and I'm starting to figure out, Okay, this

882
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: one's gonna stay here, this one's gonna stay here, you know,

883
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: And I'm getting geared up for the and I'll hunt

884
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: any major cold front after I'll go in and hunt

885
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: like it's a rout hunt, just in case they're starting

886
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: to do something they shouldn't do and get up, you know,

887
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: in earlier in the afternoon or hanging out later in

888
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: the morning checking scare apes or whatever. But you know,

889
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: from a fifteenth on, I'll hunt any time the conditions

890
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: are really good. Have you seen anything in regards to

891
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: how many sits you can pull off per stand before

892
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: it starts going downhill pretty drastically in Michigan or anywhere

893
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, it's related to whether the deer no

894
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: you're in there or not. Um, if you can walk

895
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: in there and they don't know it, and you can

896
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: walk out of there and they don't know that, you

897
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: can hunt every single day. Um, the reason that they

898
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 1: decline a little bit is because you're leaving some sort

899
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: of hint that you were there. And I don't have

900
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: very many fans where I can't leave some sort of hint.

901
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: I mean, we have smaller properties here in Michigan. Usually

902
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 1: you can get permission. If I could get permission from

903
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: a neighbor to cross their place to hunt where I

904
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: want to hunt on one of the places I have

905
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: permission to hunt, it would be awesome. But I don't.

906
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: I have to come in from one direction, and it's

907
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: the raw directions, So I have to be pretty particular

908
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: about when I hunt it because I don't have any

909
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: way else to get in, and when I come out

910
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: in the evenings, I have to walk through echild. There's

911
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: no other way to come out. So it really depends

912
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: on how much impact you have on that stand getting

913
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: in and out of it. If you have no or

914
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: minimal impact, you can hunt in the bunch. If it's

915
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: you have to walk through bean field on your way out,

916
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,919
Speaker 1: you're not going to get away from with that very often. Yeah,

917
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: speaking of stands in some states like Ohio or Io,

918
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: whether I've hunted, I feel like there's just so much

919
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: more leniency with what you can get away within a

920
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: tree stand to like these deer just don't seem to

921
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: be trained to look up as much as I feel

922
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: like they do in Michigan. Have you seen anything like that?

923
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 1: And do you do anything different with your stand setups

924
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: here and to account for that. So I killed a

925
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: deer in Kansas off the ground, sitting on a three

926
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: legged stool on the edge of an alfalfa field. In

927
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,919
Speaker 1: alfalfa fields in Kansas are basically dirt with a few

928
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: sprints here there. Um, I didn't have any cover, I

929
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: didn't use a blind nothing. I was just sitting on

930
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: a stool on the edge of a dirt field and

931
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: I used a decoy. He came out of the creek bottom.

932
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: He walked around the decoy looking at me like what

933
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: is that bump sitting there? And when I went to draw,

934
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: it was one of those cheap three legged Walmart stools.

935
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: When I drew, the front leg bent so the stool

936
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,240
Speaker 1: fell out from under me. So I kind of wobbled

937
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 1: and had to sort of half crouch. The entire time

938
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: the deer is staring at me doing that and let

939
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: me shoot him. So Yeah, they don't really have the

940
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: same level of get up and go in other states

941
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: as they do in Michigan. Um. In Michigan, I'm pretty

942
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: particular about how I'll hang my stands. I also have

943
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: two people in the tree most of the time, so

944
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: that makes it double because I got a camera guy

945
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: with me, so I you know, I don't go crazy high,

946
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: but I don't like to be any lower than eighteen

947
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: or nineteen feet and I won't go and you know,

948
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: a telephone pole type tree, I gotta have a couple

949
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: of trunks, and you know, I try to camouflage as

950
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: much as I can in Iowa, Kansas, Ohio, UM, I

951
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: don't worry about it quite as much. I try to

952
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: get high in Ohio because of the hills, but it's

953
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: not because I feel like they're they're gonna see me.

954
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: Do you ever brush in your tree stands, additional stuff

955
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: or anything that. Yeah, those artificial Christmas trees, if you like,

956
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,919
Speaker 1: can go around. You know, after January one dumpster dive,

957
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: you can get a lot of camouflage because those artificial

958
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: Christmas tree limbs are awesome because they're flexible. You know,

959
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: they have good cover on them, and you just put

960
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: a you know, screw or something in the tree and

961
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: you just twisted around it, and those worked really well.

962
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: I've taken I try to hang in oak trees because

963
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: they keep their lee so much longer. Um. But you know,

964
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: I'll definitely put something up there if I can. You know,

965
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 1: when I on my little property that I want here,

966
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: you know where a hinge cut. Um, if I'm hinge

967
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: cutting near a tree stand location, I'll hinge cut you know,

968
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: a couple of trees and put them behind it so

969
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: that there's brush and stuff around the trees. Too nice.

970
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about your early season

971
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: in October hunting. We talked about the rut, But what

972
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: about the late season For a lot of people. I

973
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: think in situations like this, the late season can be

974
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: pretty tough, especially here in Michigan. After you know, as

975
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, our firearm season is just a day louge

976
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: of of hunters, so many hunters, everything seems to change. How,

977
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: if at all, can you make the best of the

978
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: late season in a place like that. Yeah, well it's

979
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: for me, it's been. Um. If the deer that I

980
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 1: want to shoot now kicker was the exception. I never

981
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: saw him during lusble oter season. So every year year

982
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: I always thought he got shot. So I had to

983
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 1: go through a whole winter in spring and summer assuming

984
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: that I didn't have him to hunt more because I

985
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: never saw him the muzzleloader, but every other you know,

986
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,240
Speaker 1: mature buck that I've hunted on the place that shot kicker. UM,

987
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: I could easily shoot him the muzzleloader season because they

988
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: come out and in fact, the last week of gun season,

989
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: they're coming out in broad daylight. The buck my sun

990
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: shot this year. I mean he was five years old.

991
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: He just only scored about one twenty, but he's as

992
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: mature as they get. The year before, UM, I had

993
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: him probably every single day from around Thanksgiving through the

994
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: end of the deer season. I had him coming out,

995
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: you know, three in the afternoon every day, and I

996
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: could have easily shot him, but I wanted him to

997
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: get a year bigger because I felt, well, he'll peak

998
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: next year. He'll peak next year. Well this year he didn't.

999
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: He just he was the same size. So my son

1000
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: shot him. I saw him two or three times the

1001
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: last week have done season come out to this um cornfield.

1002
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: My son had basketball, so it was like mid muzzleloader

1003
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: season before we could get to him. We saw him

1004
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 1: one evening, he came out and we didn't get a shot,

1005
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: and there was like ten other bucks with him. So

1006
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: we waited two nights, went back that night, and shot

1007
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 1: him that night. So I think that the late season

1008
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 1: that's Fatida having a sanctuary. If you have it and

1009
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: you really do treat it like a sanctuary, and I

1010
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: pretty much don't gun hut um. I'll go and sit

1011
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: once in a while, but way far away, just kind

1012
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: of observational stuff. If you have that sanctuary and you

1013
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: have a food source and you leave those deer alone, Um,

1014
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: it's remarkable how many deer you can see in the

1015
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: late season, and how many of them will be the

1016
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: bucks that you saw all of both season, as long

1017
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: as they didn't get shot. Yeah, but you can't. You

1018
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: can't mess with them, and you can't there. There's zero tolerance.

1019
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: You just can't move them. That's right. What I've seen too.

1020
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: On one of my main Michigan properties that I do

1021
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: have a little bit of control over, just like you,

1022
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 1: I've got a regular sanctuary, but then I just essentially

1023
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,760
Speaker 1: let my entire property be a sanctuary during firearm season

1024
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: for the exact reason you mentioned, because that allows some

1025
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: of these bucks to make it through, preserve some area

1026
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: of relative safety. And then, like you said, when you've

1027
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: got a good food source and you wait for the

1028
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: right timing, then the late season, I go in there

1029
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: and lo and behold a couple of these bucks usually

1030
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: are still alive and feel comfortable because no one's been

1031
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: bugging up in this little small area. Um. But it

1032
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: does take a particular situation, you know, being able to

1033
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: have some type of spot that you can leave off

1034
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: limits like that. Yeah, yeah, and you gotta, I mean,

1035
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: that's why. That's one of the things. You know. People,

1036
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: you know, I've I've least ground before and and I

1037
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: just bought a small piece, you know. It's it's not

1038
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: that I think leasing is a great thing. It's not

1039
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: that I think, know, you have to have money to

1040
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: hunt and we should be able to afford to buy property.

1041
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: It's just a simple question, how serious are you? You know,

1042
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 1: I'm very serious about your hunting. I love it. And

1043
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: it's not that I'm obsessed with antlers. It's not that

1044
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: I'm only going to be happy, you know, if I

1045
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: can kill these big bucks or I'm doing it to

1046
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: be famous, it's nothing of that. It's what my passion is.

1047
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: So if that's your passion, you have to ask yourself

1048
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: what is it worth to you? What are you willing

1049
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: to do? And if that means paying a little bit

1050
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: for at least so that you can have the conditions

1051
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 1: where you can have the type of hunting you want,

1052
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: then you have to be willing to do that and

1053
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: put up with what everybody's gonna say about you. If

1054
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,479
Speaker 1: it means, you know, buying a piece of ground which

1055
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: is actually more affordable than people think, if you get

1056
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 1: the right one, that's what you have to be willing

1057
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: to do. But so many guys get mad or you know,

1058
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: maybe it's just because we're in the media. I mean,

1059
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: I know, you get plenty of Facebook comments and other things.

1060
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: It's not that we're doing something anybody else can do.

1061
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: It's a we're willing to do what most people aren't.

1062
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm willing to pay a little bit of

1063
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: money a month to own land. I didn't get a

1064
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 1: very big piece, it's only seventeen acres, but it's something

1065
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: I can do. I'm willing to save up some money

1066
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: to pay for a lease each year. You know, I'm

1067
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: willing to drive seventeen hours to campus. What are you

1068
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: willing to do? That's that's the question. And nobody's stopping you.

1069
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's your it's your own choice. Nobody

1070
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: is preventing you from doing it. Very true. And I'd

1071
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: say also in addition to what are you willing to do,

1072
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 1: it's what are you willing to sacrifice as well? Exactly

1073
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: to have that little extra money to pay for at

1074
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 1: least or that little extra money to put on a

1075
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: payment for a property. You know, don't buy the big

1076
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: fancy truck or don't buy the big news screen TV. Um.

1077
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of us, if we

1078
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: make choices sacrifice in some areas, we can find that

1079
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 1: little extra money, or maybe it's time, little extra time.

1080
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you get to sacrifice if you want

1081
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: to prioritize deer hunting in these types of things. Yeah,

1082
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:15,359
Speaker 1: And that's a good point. Because I bought a brand

1083
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: new truck. I had a brand new ram. It was

1084
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: like five fifty bucks a month, and I had a

1085
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: ten months and I sold it and now I have

1086
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: like a two one fifty that's one third the price.

1087
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: And that was because I was writing out the check

1088
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: for the bill on that side, what are you doing?

1089
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: This was like the cost of a really good out

1090
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: of state deer license every month, and I said, screw it,

1091
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: I'm going hunting. You know, it's all about choices. Yeah,

1092
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: that's that's so so much the truth. So on this

1093
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: topic of uh, the importance of a place. You know,

1094
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: you're not going to kill something if you don't have

1095
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: the deer there, and a property can hold mature deer

1096
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: in place like Michigan, how do you find an area

1097
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: that can hold or does hold quality box? How do

1098
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: you go about finding those spots, whether it be by

1099
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: permission or you know, I guess I'd be curious Number one,

1100
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: how do you find a spot like that just to

1101
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: try to get permission hunt? And then number two I'd

1102
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: like to hear from you, especially given the fact that

1103
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 1: you're doing some of this with white tail properties. How

1104
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: do you pick the right spot to buy um in

1105
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: an area like this? So two part question there for you.

1106
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: So the first one, by permission is is easier to answer,

1107
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: but it has a less satisfying result. The easiest answer

1108
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: is whatever one you can get permission on, because it's

1109
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: hard to do that. I mean sure, you can go

1110
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: around and look for these really prime places and ask

1111
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: permission and do that. You know, just have a list

1112
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: property that you think is really good and some that's

1113
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: not so good, and ask right on down the lift

1114
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: until you get permission. Because sometimes the pieces that don't

1115
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: look as good, you know, might be the right one.

1116
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: They might be in the right location, and maybe the

1117
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: neighbor property is really good and you can you know,

1118
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: hunt this new piece better with less pressure and start

1119
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: sucking some of those deer over. You just never know

1120
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: in pressure or permission in Michigan is pretty hard to get,

1121
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: so you can't be that choosy. You're just gonna have

1122
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: to get the piece, and you've got to hunt it

1123
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 1: a couple of years because you even you just don't

1124
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: know until you hunt it, even if you scout it

1125
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: do all the things right, you don't know until it's

1126
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: actually hunting season of how things go. So my advice

1127
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: on getting permission is get whatever piece you can get,

1128
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: and the more the better because that gives you options,

1129
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: and it's leasing is a little bit easier because you

1130
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: might have a little more options. You might have you know,

1131
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 1: you're coming in with a little bit different approach than

1132
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: every other guy that's asked, but it's it's still not

1133
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: easy to find a decent place. Buying is a whole

1134
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: different animal. It's when I bought my place, I mean,

1135
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: I was just kind of joking. I said, well, I'm

1136
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: gonna look at this piece of ground. I'm gonna buy

1137
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: some property. And I wasn't serious about it because I

1138
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: thought there's no way I'd be able to afford it. Well,

1139
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: once I started doing the mass and started understanding the process,

1140
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: I actually could. No, I couldn't buy very much, but

1141
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: the seventeen acres of that I have, you know, in

1142
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: a few years, it's going to be dynamite. It's really good,

1143
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: and it costs almost nothing. So you just have to

1144
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: go into it with a budget, with an idea. You

1145
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,959
Speaker 1: really need to talk to someone who knows about landing

1146
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 1: can help you through the process because they there's so

1147
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: many properties that the realtors have access to that you

1148
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: don't even know about. You know what, because there's so

1149
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: many different types of agencies and listing sites that you think,

1150
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: while I'm looking online and I'm not finding anything, that

1151
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're not there, so and it doesn't cost

1152
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 1: you anything. To have a guy represent you as the buyer.

1153
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: The seller pays his commission, so you don't it cost

1154
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 1: you nothing, and they'll do all the legwork and the paperwork.

1155
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: And you know, not to sound salesman, but when you

1156
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 1: have a group like Wetial Properties, where our job is

1157
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: to work on hunting land, it's a little different than

1158
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, Sally's real Estate, who is selling condos and houses.

1159
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: You know, how much does she really know about hunting land?

1160
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: Almost nothing? So how is she going to give you

1161
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: good advice? And in a good agent will tell you,

1162
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 1: even if you have the money and he's gonna make

1163
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: a commission, a good one will say, don't buy that one.

1164
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: It's it's not going to do what you want to do.

1165
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: Let's find another one, even if it's smaller and less expensive,

1166
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: and my commission is gonna be smaller, because if you're

1167
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 1: not happy with hunting it, you're not going to recommend

1168
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 1: that guy to anybody. Helps. So, you know, finding ground

1169
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: to buy is not that hard. Obviously, having the money

1170
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: to buy it is a whole different thing. But you know,

1171
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of programs that you can look at,

1172
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: and there are ways that you can make land a

1173
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: lot more affordable then you think, you know, whether it's

1174
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 1: running out the crop ground or actually farming it yourself,

1175
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: which means you don't. You're not actually gonna be farming it.

1176
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: You're gonna pay a guy for a day to planet,

1177
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: You're going to buy the feed, and then you're gonna

1178
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: pay a guy for a day to harvest it, and

1179
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: you're going to keep all of that. You know, rather

1180
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: than fifty bucks an acre, you have a little more risk,

1181
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 1: but a lot more reward. And you know that's something

1182
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: a good agent can talk you through. Timber value, you know,

1183
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: conservation easement programs, all kinds of things that you can

1184
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: actually make the property a lot more affordable than than

1185
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: you might think. So, speaking of owning land, and you

1186
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: mentioned you own that seventeen acres, and I know that

1187
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: this is an impossible question because it's different for everybody

1188
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: and every property, but just give me a hypothetically, or

1189
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: maybe just tell me about your property specifically in an

1190
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: area like this with lots of hunting pressure and a

1191
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: small property. What are some of the things you would

1192
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: prioritize when it comes to actually trying to improve that property,

1193
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: or how do you think through that so I always

1194
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: look at it as a rule of fourths or a

1195
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: rule of thirds. I want one fourth of the property

1196
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: to be in something that I can put food on

1197
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: or already has food, so it's either crop ground or

1198
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 1: open enough that you can put food plots. I want

1199
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:28,439
Speaker 1: one fourth of it in honnable timber. I want one

1200
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: fourth of it in brush. And then I want one

1201
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: fourth of it to be something that's either brush or

1202
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: timber or tall grasses, just cover, like some sort of cover.

1203
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 1: So if you're gonna go with the thirds to make it,

1204
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: you know, some properties will fit into herds better. You

1205
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: want one third and food, one third in kind of

1206
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: standard honnible timber, in one third in cover, and you

1207
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 1: can make any property, any property have that. It just

1208
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: might be a more pensive over time, and it might

1209
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: take you more energy. But you can make a flat, wide,

1210
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: open bean field into all three of those. Just gonna

1211
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: take you some time because you've got to plant the trees,

1212
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: you gotta put in the brush, you gotta let it,

1213
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, go over. But you can do it. And

1214
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: that's the important thing that guys have to think about,

1215
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, especially if you're on a pretty tight budget.

1216
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: I was on a tight budget when I bought my

1217
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: my property, so I bought a piece that nobody wanted.

1218
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 1: It had issues. People thought it was landlocked. It wasn't.

1219
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: They just didn't do the research and realized there was

1220
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: an actual easement. It didn't look like much. It was

1221
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 1: kind of open in the middle of some scrubby grass

1222
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: and the woods weren't that great. They didn't They didn't

1223
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 1: want to look at it for what it could do.

1224
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: They and I don't know if they didn't want to

1225
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: go in and do the work or whatever. But two

1226
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: years time, I've completely transformed that place and I got

1227
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: a heck of a deal on it. So I like

1228
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 1: to look for that mix, and most places have that.

1229
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: You just have to have the vision to see that.

1230
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: It may not have it right now, but I can't

1231
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: make it that way, you know, because unless you're going

1232
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 1: to shell out serious money, you know, you can't be

1233
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: that choosy. You gotta be able to see what it

1234
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: can be and be willing to turn it into what

1235
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: it needs to be. So what specifically did you do

1236
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 1: on your farm. I'm just curious about how you actually

1237
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: took that and put into action on your seventy anchors well,

1238
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 1: the first thing was, I mean nature helped me out

1239
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: and killed all my ash trees, so the ashbore did

1240
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the work. So I probably get taken

1241
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 1: out between thirty and forty ash trees that were already dead,

1242
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: so they by dying, we're going to open up the canopy. Anyway,

1243
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: I just took them out because I wanted the firewood,

1244
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 1: and you know, I just got them out of the

1245
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 1: way so they weren't falling over and making a mask.

1246
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: So once I got most of those trees out, then

1247
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: I started cutting down trees that were just big and useless,

1248
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: had some cotton woods, had some you know, cherry, and

1249
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: people that were growing crooked. So if they weren't you know,

1250
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: a tree that I had any timber value or any

1251
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: hunting value, meaning they weren't oaks where they would produce acorns,

1252
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:13,200
Speaker 1: I cut them down for the firewood. Then I started

1253
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: hinge cutting to make it thicker to let more sunlight in.

1254
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: You know, I want thick. I want everything in there

1255
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: to be thick. So the woods kind of makes a

1256
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 1: circle around the property. In the center was basically fallow

1257
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: grass with brush mostly multi flora rose and um autumn olives,

1258
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: so once I got the woods kind of taken care of,

1259
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: I bought two shrubs, hazelnut shrubs and high bush cranberry,

1260
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: and I started putting those in the more opening in

1261
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 1: the more open areas, so that i'd have some shrubby,

1262
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: thick stuff going up. Took any of the natural openings

1263
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 1: and killed it and started a food plot program and

1264
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 1: just kept every spring I go in and a hinge

1265
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: cut a little bit more. It's there's any you know,

1266
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: shrubs that are doing well that I don't like where

1267
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: they are, I dig them up, my transplant them, and

1268
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:07,919
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to make it so that you can't

1269
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 1: see across it. I'm made trails through the fixed stuff,

1270
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: through the food plots, so those deer have circuits that

1271
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: they can walk and they're always hidden. You know. The

1272
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: way it lays out is really nice because I can

1273
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 1: hunt every border and I don't have to go into

1274
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: the center at all. And I just kept making it thicker,

1275
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 1: making it thicker, and you know, experimenting with different food

1276
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: plots so that I have enough food to keep the

1277
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 1: deer on there. And it's not the best soil, so

1278
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: it's still a work in progress, but you know, it's

1279
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:41,919
Speaker 1: the food plots this year are are doing much better.

1280
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 1: I had to replan them because I planted corn and

1281
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: beans in the summer or in the spring, and they

1282
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 1: didn't grow because it was so dry. So I killed

1283
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 1: everything under and I just put my fall stuff in

1284
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 1: what ten days ago or something, and all this rain

1285
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: we've had has turned it in and working really good.

1286
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: But just I've just tried to make it thick. So

1287
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: if I can hinge cut a hinge cut, if I

1288
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: can find a place where the grass is they're sort

1289
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: of sparse, I'll burn it and try to get him

1290
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: to come back better. And planning the shrubs and stuff,

1291
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: you know you're not gonna see immediate impacts, but you

1292
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: know they're already need to waste high and they were

1293
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 1: seedlings when I put them in, So I'm really starting

1294
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 1: to see that change. But thick cover is where it's at.

1295
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: Have you started seeing any results in the way of

1296
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 1: you know, more dear hanging out there, or better deer,

1297
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 1: better bucks or anything. Have you seen changes in dear

1298
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:36,640
Speaker 1: behavior activity given all these have a temperaments, Yeah, I have.

1299
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean there's more dear there, there's still not the

1300
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 1: bucks there that I really want, but we also had.

1301
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: The year I bought it was the year e h

1302
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: D hit, so we lost a ton of deer in

1303
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: a ton of bucks. Now, last year in the summer,

1304
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 1: I got a picture of a really nice buck on

1305
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 1: my place in my food plot in a neighbor about

1306
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: three quarters a mile away. Actually shot that book in

1307
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 1: November and it was mid So they're starting to show up.

1308
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I still haven't quite got it figured out,

1309
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: you know, how to get several bucks to live there

1310
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 1: and stay there and get older, and they might be

1311
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: I just haven't hunted it that much because I'm trying

1312
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: to you know, I'm trying to get an inventory and

1313
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 1: a stockpile going, so I'll hunt it more this year

1314
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: than I have ever. And I'm trying to get it

1315
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:30,639
Speaker 1: so that I have a good age structure in there,

1316
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: so if I do shoot a three or four year old,

1317
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: you know I have another one to take its place.

1318
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:38,600
Speaker 1: And I just haven't felt like I've had any of

1319
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: that the last couple of years, so I didn't want

1320
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:42,759
Speaker 1: to shooting the bucks off of it. Do you maintain

1321
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 1: a sanctuary on a property like that, even though it's

1322
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: just seven teen acres? Well, sort of I mean, I

1323
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: kind of treat it like it's the entire thing is

1324
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,799
Speaker 1: a sanctuary. So I will go in you know, obviously

1325
01:09:57,840 --> 01:09:59,839
Speaker 1: have to go in there to plant the food plots,

1326
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: and I have trail cameras, but I'll go in there

1327
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: with the four wheeler like once a week and just

1328
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: zip to where the trail cameras are and they're in

1329
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 1: more of the more open stuff. But um, I haven't

1330
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 1: been in the woods or any of the cover in

1331
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,599
Speaker 1: a year. I mean since I stopped cutting I got

1332
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: all the firewood out that I wanted. I haven't been

1333
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: inside that woods and over a year, and I don't

1334
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 1: really have any intentions of going back in there. You know,

1335
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 1: maybe late this winter, after deer season, I'll hike back

1336
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 1: there and see how it looks. But um, I try

1337
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: to treat the whole property as much as I can.

1338
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: It's not a true sanctuary. It's not like any of

1339
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: the others, but I don't have any I never walk

1340
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: in there if I'm in there a time the four wheeler,

1341
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not going to just walk. When I

1342
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 1: hang the tree stand, I can go right down the edges,

1343
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 1: which I have those kind of brush hogs, so it's

1344
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 1: like a lane dread four wheeler hanging the tree stand.

1345
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,560
Speaker 1: It faces in the pretty but I never actually have

1346
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 1: to go into the interior of it unless I'm putting

1347
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: food plots in or checking the trail camera. And honestly,

1348
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: I shouldn't even do that. I shouldn't. I should keep that.

1349
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: I should either have a camera in the center that

1350
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 1: sends photos or just keep the cameras up on the perimeter. Yeah.

1351
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 1: Have you have you use those wireless cameras much? I

1352
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: just got my first one and how it yesterday actually,

1353
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: so I'm excited to try that. But have you seen

1354
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 1: good results using that? Yeah? My Ohio property um last

1355
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: year was the first year I had it, and I

1356
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,719
Speaker 1: had one of the Moultrie Um wireless and it was awesome.

1357
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 1: I mean I've used that model several times in different places.

1358
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: But Multory just switched over to a new system, so

1359
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 1: mine doesn't work anymore. So it kind of took me off.

1360
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: I have to get a new one, But there they are,

1361
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 1: the cats me out. I mean, yeah, it's forty bucks

1362
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:53,720
Speaker 1: or whatever for a month or two, so that kind

1363
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: of sucks. But I couldn't. There's no other way for

1364
01:11:57,479 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: me to scout that place in Ohio. I mean when

1365
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 1: I was going down there, I knew what that you

1366
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: were doing in what bucks I was hunting. So they're

1367
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 1: really I think they're great. Um, a little more pricey,

1368
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 1: but just you know, I'm only going to use it

1369
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: in September, October, November, maybe December, so I guess I

1370
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: can justify the costs that way. But um, it just

1371
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 1: goes back to that thing, how bad do you want it?

1372
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: You know, how how serious are you? But I really

1373
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 1: I wish they would come down in price because I'd

1374
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 1: have several more. But on my piece. Uh, you know,

1375
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 1: that's that's what That's what you know you're talking earlier about.

1376
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: Allow me and Brentley, you know we kind of parablet careers.

1377
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 1: I think one of the things we both do, like

1378
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 1: I'm totally not afraid to say that I don't know

1379
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: everything and that you know, I just admitted I shouldn't

1380
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 1: be going in the center in my place to check

1381
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: that camera, so and I shouldn't be, but I don't

1382
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 1: have another sending camera to check. So um, eventually I

1383
01:12:57,720 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 1: get one and I won't go into the center of

1384
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 1: my property at all. I just had to send it

1385
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:03,920
Speaker 1: out there, so yeah, yeah, I agree. As soon as

1386
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: it's go down in price, I'll be doing my best

1387
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:08,679
Speaker 1: to get my hands on a bunch because just being

1388
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,560
Speaker 1: able to get that intel without needing the storm in

1389
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 1: there and spook deer leaves, scent, etcetera. Man, that makes

1390
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 1: a big difference. With this camera I just got. I

1391
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 1: hung it kind of in a situation, kind of like

1392
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: what you're describing on your seventeen. This is a little

1393
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: food plot I have kind of in the core of

1394
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: this main Michigan property hunt that I don't ever want

1395
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: to go in there until the absolute best conditions. Usually

1396
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: I save it for the rut. But if I knew

1397
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: there was a buck showing up during daylight there, which

1398
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: that has happened in the past, I'd like to go

1399
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: in there and try to hunt him. But usually I

1400
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,640
Speaker 1: don't find that out until November one or second. When

1401
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 1: I go there and hunt and check that camera, I'm like, oh, darn,

1402
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: I wish I was here on the twenty three, and

1403
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 1: um so this year I put that wireless camera back there,

1404
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:51,680
Speaker 1: so now I'm gonna be able to keep tabs on it.

1405
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:54,719
Speaker 1: And if Mr Big shows up on the seventh, well

1406
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: I might be there the eighth through the ninth through

1407
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 1: the tenth conditions are right, so it can change. Be

1408
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: prepared for it to work in reverse. Because last year

1409
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 1: I hunted the opening day of shotgun in Ohio. I hunted.

1410
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 1: I both hunted the two days before, and then I

1411
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 1: was going to hunt the first three days of the

1412
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 1: shotgun season. The first day of the shotgun season toured

1413
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: rain the entire day and it was supposed to rain

1414
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 1: all the next day. And I'm like, this sucks. I'm leaving.

1415
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: I have work to do. Well. I got home and

1416
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 1: I get I was getting photo sent to me every morning.

1417
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 1: At that time. At ten am on the second day

1418
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: of shotgun season, is about a hundred and seventy ten

1419
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 1: pointer was standing in front of my tree stands for

1420
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:43,599
Speaker 1: hour and a half. That's brutal. Yeah, that was a pain. Yeah,

1421
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 1: I can I can already see just now, I'm like

1422
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 1: obsessively checking my email hoping that there's a picture. You know,

1423
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 1: I can see that being pretty dangerous come hunting season. Um, yeah,

1424
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 1: I can obsess about that. It is fun though, I

1425
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 1: mean I like checking trail cameras almost as much as

1426
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 1: I like Yeah. Yeah, So one last topic, I want

1427
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: to touch on before we wrap this up, relates to

1428
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: what you just mentioned there, you know, hunting in Ohio

1429
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 1: or I know you hunt Kansas and Iowa and South

1430
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: Dakota and all of all sorts of places, and being

1431
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: someone who lives in one of these tougher states to hunt,

1432
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,479
Speaker 1: whether it be here in Michigan or Pennsylvania or New

1433
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 1: York or New Hampshire, Georgia wherever, a lot of us

1434
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,799
Speaker 1: like to travel to some of these, you know, slightly

1435
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:29,839
Speaker 1: less pressured states where there's older bucks, better opportunity. Um,

1436
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,680
Speaker 1: you've been able to do that really successfully and consistently.

1437
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 1: Can you share with us a few of the things

1438
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: that you're doing when it comes to either planning or

1439
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 1: executing those trips to be so successful. Yeah, I mean

1440
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 1: one of the we all we all kind of make

1441
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: fun of Michigan a lot, and that's because it is hard.

1442
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:50,640
Speaker 1: You know, there's not a lot of older deer. But

1443
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: the flip side of that is we're the best hunters

1444
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: in the country period. If you can kill we'll see

1445
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: big deer here. You can do it anywhere. So once

1446
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:04,559
Speaker 1: you do get to the places where the deer, you know,

1447
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 1: are less pressured and they do act a little bit

1448
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 1: more normal in the rut we're calling and things are effective.

1449
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 1: You are very lethal. Um. I don't approach different states

1450
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: really any differently than I do in Michigan, and it

1451
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 1: makes things easier. So if you go in and you

1452
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 1: look at the app of a piece of public ground

1453
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:28,000
Speaker 1: and you think of it in terms of Michigan and

1454
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 1: you think, well, nobody's going to go here because it's

1455
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: too hard, or here's a nice thick area of private

1456
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 1: land that has a nice funnel that goes into the public.

1457
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 1: You know, if you just think of it is like

1458
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:45,679
Speaker 1: a Michigan hunter would, You're gonna be totally fine. And

1459
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,799
Speaker 1: that's always my approach, you know, I like, I really

1460
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: really like to look at the maps as much as

1461
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: I possibly can, and in a weird way, I you know,

1462
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: I'm doing more media hunts now where I just kind

1463
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 1: of go to show up at the place and they're

1464
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 1: going to kind of set us up. And I mean, no,

1465
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 1: they're fun, but I don't like them quite as much

1466
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:10,720
Speaker 1: because there's so much of the experience missing. You know,

1467
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm not really familiar with the property. I'm not necessarily

1468
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,759
Speaker 1: you know, usually they let you pick out your stands

1469
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 1: and they talk over with you. But it's only a

1470
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 1: day's worth of it versus you know, I've already had

1471
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:25,600
Speaker 1: two months of looking at this piece in Ohio and

1472
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 1: it's the same piece as hunted last year. But I'm

1473
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: just constantly looking at those maps and figuring out how

1474
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 1: Dear would use it. So I don't have a real

1475
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 1: different approach other than I'm gonna use Google Earth and

1476
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 1: things like that as much as I possibly can, and

1477
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:42,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look at it like a Michigan deer hunter would.

1478
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: And when you do that, you'll start to realize how

1479
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: much we've learned, is deer hunters because of the pressure

1480
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 1: gear that we have to hunt, and once you get

1481
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 1: out there, it almost always works out where holy crap,

1482
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 1: they actually are using this funnel and when I rattle

1483
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: at them, they come towards me, and when I grunt,

1484
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:04,640
Speaker 1: they don't run away. So it really makes it a

1485
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 1: lot of fun because you're using the things that you've

1486
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:12,759
Speaker 1: really learned and you know, kind of home the craft

1487
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 1: here in Michigan and then going to a place where

1488
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 1: you see just how effective it can be. Yeah, it is.

1489
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: It is a lot of fun when Dear do react

1490
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 1: to calls or decoys or something like that in a

1491
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: positive way versus high tailing. Does your does your level

1492
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: of aggressiveness differ? Though? When you've got you know, you

1493
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 1: know you just have five days to get it done

1494
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 1: in such and such place. I mean, do you approach

1495
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: things differently just from a timing perspective at all? Yeah?

1496
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 1: And I mean I do that here in Michigan too, though,

1497
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 1: because I know the window is so small. And the

1498
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: guys that have hunted with me or videos with me,

1499
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 1: they always like to make fun of me because I

1500
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 1: will move they tree stand at any time, does not

1501
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:57,160
Speaker 1: matter if if it's the rut and I see more

1502
01:18:57,240 --> 01:18:59,639
Speaker 1: than two dolls go through one place and I can't

1503
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:02,880
Speaker 1: shoot that distance. It might be nine thirty in the morning,

1504
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 1: we're getting down and we're moving free stands right then,

1505
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: and I look at it is. I can't let opportunities

1506
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: pass because there's not that many of them. So in Michigan,

1507
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 1: the time period to kill a big buck is pretty small,

1508
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to waste it. If I'm out

1509
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 1: of state and I've got four or five days, I'm

1510
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 1: not gonna wait. I'm gonna move that stand. And you know,

1511
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 1: I kind of take pride in the fact that I can.

1512
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,519
Speaker 1: I can get down and have another tree, stand up,

1513
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,840
Speaker 1: and be hunting again in less than fifteen minutes. You know,

1514
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 1: it's not that hard. If you think ahead, pick out

1515
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 1: the tree, make a plan, get down and move it.

1516
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:43,000
Speaker 1: You know you can do it quickly, really quietly, and

1517
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 1: and it works out great. So I'm always when, especially

1518
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 1: during the run, I'm always aggressive. Now I'll be a

1519
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:53,600
Speaker 1: lot more aggressive with calling in a state like Kansas

1520
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 1: than Michigan. But I'm not gonna let deer walk by

1521
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:00,960
Speaker 1: that I can't shoot without moving if I feel like

1522
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 1: that's where a buck's going to show up. Speaking of

1523
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 1: bucks in that to a situation, what about if you

1524
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:09,439
Speaker 1: see a buck move somewhere. You know I was. I

1525
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:11,719
Speaker 1: was debate this, Okay, I saw him do this once.

1526
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:13,800
Speaker 1: Do I move the next day or do I wait

1527
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 1: and see if he does it twice? What's your take

1528
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:22,479
Speaker 1: on that? It's kind of situational. Um. If if it's

1529
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 1: a deer I've been hunting and I feel like I

1530
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 1: know him and his personality and I see him doing

1531
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: something and I think, ah, that's what he's been doing,

1532
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 1: then I'll move. If I see him doing it, and

1533
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, that was a fluke thing. I mean,

1534
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 1: it's all kind of like gut instinct. If it's a

1535
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:41,720
Speaker 1: I've never hunted and it's out of state, then I'm

1536
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 1: probably gonna move because I don't know that that's not

1537
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,679
Speaker 1: what they do all the time, you know. But here,

1538
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:51,719
Speaker 1: I generally feel like I get a pretty good idea

1539
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 1: of how the deer you use the place. And you know,

1540
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: if I see him doing something that I don't think

1541
01:20:56,120 --> 01:21:00,160
Speaker 1: they normally would do, then I probably won't react, but

1542
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 1: sometimes I will if I feel like that's how he's

1543
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: been avoiding me. Now I've got him figured out. All

1544
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 1: makes sense. So so we're coming up on time here, Tony.

1545
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 1: I've talked your ear off for long enough now, but

1546
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:16,719
Speaker 1: I want to I want to ask you one final question.

1547
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: If there was one like action item you could leave

1548
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,559
Speaker 1: with our listeners, one change you would tell everyone to

1549
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 1: try to make before this season to be a little

1550
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 1: bit more successful in these types of situations. We talked

1551
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: about what would be that one action that you want

1552
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: everyone's take. For me, things changed when I when I

1553
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 1: refused to settle. So if you haven't seen, you know,

1554
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 1: big bucks. Are got pictures of big bucks where you're hunting,

1555
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 1: you know here in Michigan, Um, you're probably not going

1556
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:50,639
Speaker 1: to find one. There's a reason, especially if you spent

1557
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: a few years, there's a reason they're not there, and

1558
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:57,920
Speaker 1: you probably can't do anything about that. So you got

1559
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 1: to find something better, you know, if it's leasing or

1560
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 1: getting permission or trying to figure out how to buy

1561
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 1: a place, you know, that's what you've got to do.

1562
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 1: But if you haven't seen a truly big deer, um,

1563
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:11,640
Speaker 1: you know, four year old or five year old or

1564
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:14,559
Speaker 1: whatever in three or four years, and the places that

1565
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,640
Speaker 1: you hunt and you didn't have two year olds that

1566
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 1: you saw last year or three year olds, you're not

1567
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 1: gonna have a four year old this year. So you

1568
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 1: gotta you know, kind of goes back to you got

1569
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 1: to decide how serious you are about this. What is

1570
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: it that makes you happy as the hunter? And if

1571
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 1: shooting two year old deer intrep year old deer makes

1572
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 1: you happy the hunter, then do that. That's totally your choice,

1573
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 1: and I have no problem with that. But if your

1574
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 1: guy who says, I really want to shoot these bigger bucks,

1575
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 1: then you've got to do what it takes to find them.

1576
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:45,800
Speaker 1: And if you haven't seen them in several years and

1577
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:49,200
Speaker 1: you don't have up and commerce, you know, a big

1578
01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:51,400
Speaker 1: Bucks not just gonna magically grow out of the ground.

1579
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 1: It's suddenly be five years old. It just doesn't happen

1580
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, I think that's spot on, and that's

1581
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: just the the honest truth of it. There's nothing fancy

1582
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,599
Speaker 1: about it's just simply you gotta be hunting where they're

1583
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:10,599
Speaker 1: at exactly. So tony for people who want to either

1584
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 1: follow what you're doing from a media standpoint or people

1585
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 1: that want to learn more about what you've got going

1586
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 1: on with White Tail Properties, where can they go online

1587
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:21,719
Speaker 1: to find that stuff? So there's a couple of places.

1588
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:25,640
Speaker 1: I have um a writer page on Facebook, so you

1589
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: can just search for my name and you'll either find

1590
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:31,679
Speaker 1: my personal page or my writer page, it doesn't matter.

1591
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:34,599
Speaker 1: It's kind of the same stuff. Um tourch You can

1592
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 1: go to White Tie Properties and go to the Michigan

1593
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 1: agents and see what you know, all of us are

1594
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:41,799
Speaker 1: doing and what we've got going And then I'm another

1595
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: life all at the time too, so Other life dot

1596
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,720
Speaker 1: Com you can look me up there. Perfect. I'll make

1597
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:49,400
Speaker 1: sure to link to all that stuff, and I know

1598
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:50,680
Speaker 1: I will be, and I bet a lot of our

1599
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:53,759
Speaker 1: listeners will be following along. So hopefully you'll have another

1600
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:58,800
Speaker 1: great season, Tony. I'm gonna try, that's for sure me too. Well,

1601
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking the time to do this,

1602
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: and uh, good luck, alright, no problem, Mark, All right,

1603
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 1: Well there you go. I hope you enjoyed this conversation

1604
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: with Tony. I know I did, and I'm planning on

1605
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:13,680
Speaker 1: putting some of these ideas into action in just a

1606
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 1: couple of weeks when our season opens here in Michigan,

1607
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:19,600
Speaker 1: and I cannot wait for that. So we're going to

1608
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:21,599
Speaker 1: wrap things up here by thinking our partners who helped

1609
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 1: make this podcast possible, so big thank you too. Sick

1610
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:28,240
Speaker 1: of gear Red, Nick Blind's Hunter A Maps, YETI Osonics,

1611
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 1: Carbon Express, MAYBN Optics, and the White Tail Institute of

1612
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 1: North America. Go check these companies out, give him a

1613
01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 1: tweet or an email if you can, and let them

1614
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 1: know that you appreciate them helping us make this show.

1615
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 1: That would be pretty awesome and I certainly would appreciate

1616
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 1: it too. And with all that said, thank you all

1617
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 1: for joining us today and get pumped folks, it's hunting season,

1618
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:52,599
Speaker 1: and with that being the case, I would hope and

1619
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:55,679
Speaker 1: expect it would be very disappointed if, at this very

1620
01:24:55,680 --> 01:25:00,840
Speaker 1: moment you are not absolutely stoked out of your mind

1621
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 1: and wired to hunt. H