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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Beginner's Bagpipe with Margaret Kildre. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host and Margaret Kildre and I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to play bagpipes, but today you're gonna hear me Wait, no,

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Speaker 1: hear me out? What if instead we have part two

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Speaker 1: of the Popular Olympics with James Stout on cool People

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Speaker 1: who did cool stuff? How does that sound? Everyone? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: more than the bagpipe ideas, James and Margaret do bagpipe

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Speaker 1: would be a good podcast, So I think we should

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Speaker 1: probably pitch that. Yeah, yeah, exactly, all right, excellent, Well,

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Speaker 1: we just got to get through this and then from

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Speaker 1: now on we're only playing bagpipes and annoying my neighbors

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Speaker 1: in the mountains. Because that's the fun thing about if

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Speaker 1: I started playing bagpipes is that I live in the

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Speaker 1: mountains and it will echo. Was going to expense it too,

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Speaker 1: so we could move to Scotland. Yeah, raise highland cattle,

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Speaker 1: Thanks Daddy, I heart big Daddy. We want to do

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Speaker 1: yeah the I heart motto. That's why you have to

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Speaker 1: listen to adverts sometimes. Yeah, so that we can raise cattle.

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Speaker 1: Sacrifice you pentathlon kicking, Yeah, the sex sextathel on the

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Speaker 1: sixth kicking see anarchist triathlons, shin kicking, bagpipes and cattle raising. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: Margaret Killjoy, this is cool. People did cool stuff. My

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Speaker 1: producer is Sophie Lichterman, the my guest is James Stout. James,

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Speaker 1: how are you doing? Okay? Literally, I'm happy. We've had

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Speaker 1: a break. We've bagpiped. Yeah, it's been. It's a whole

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Speaker 1: separate day. What are you talking about? You know I

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Speaker 1: bagpiped since then? Yeah, totally. And our audio production is

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Speaker 1: done by Ian. The theme music was written by on Women.

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Speaker 1: And this is part two of a thing. So if

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Speaker 1: if this makes no sense to you, well what we

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Speaker 1: said so far does it makes understand anybody, probably including us,

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Speaker 1: But you should go back and listen to part one.

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Speaker 1: If you don't go back and listen to part one,

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you how how much I will never

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Speaker 1: trust you. How could you trust someone who comes in

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Speaker 1: to the second part of a two parter you could?

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Speaker 1: If no, no, I just I don't. I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't get it. I don't get it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe everyone's different. You have your own way of doing things,

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Speaker 1: and that's fine. James is actually the host today and

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Speaker 1: I'm just rambling. James are doing where we at? What's happening? Good?

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Speaker 1: I'm good. What's happening? All right? Well, we're just gonna

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Speaker 1: kick off. What's happening. You've listened to the you listen

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Speaker 1: to the last part, you know, the Spanish civil wards

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Speaker 1: starting right So a five fifteen in the morning, the

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Speaker 1: radio announced, people of Barcelona, the moment we feared has arrived.

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Speaker 1: The army has betrayed it's worth and honor has written

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Speaker 1: against the Republic. For this, Citizens of Barcelona, the time

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Speaker 1: of great decisions and great sacrifices have arrived, destroyed this

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Speaker 1: fascist army. Every citizen must live their duty. Long live

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Speaker 1: the generality that, long live Catalonia, Long live the Republic,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty cool thing for a radio to say. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So with this, the game slipped into hindsight and the

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Speaker 1: war assumed disposition. The only thing that really mattered for

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Speaker 1: the next three years, and what the Vivankos wrote much later,

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Speaker 1: what could have been a great people's popular Olympics in Barcelona,

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Speaker 1: prepared with vision and enthusiasm by people of great spirit

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Speaker 1: who believed in Olympic and human ideals, was lost and

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Speaker 1: for many of the athletes who had spent a few

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Speaker 1: days before the Games enjoying the city's nightlife and meeting

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Speaker 1: other anti fascist athletes. It wasn't a total surprise, right.

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Speaker 1: They talked to their local translators, they talked to the

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Speaker 1: people who are hosting them, and the rumors of this

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Speaker 1: coup had been going around for a long time. M hmm.

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Speaker 1: Many of these people had fought fashion in their own

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Speaker 1: countries before. Right. There was a German sprinter. Do you

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Speaker 1: know who Muriel Rockeiser is? No, he's a German sprinter.

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Speaker 1: I don't know Muriel Rockiser. She is the the the

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Speaker 1: love interest of the German sprinter. Okay, German sprinter is

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Speaker 1: called Otto Bock, which Magpie tried though. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: so proud of her sho and have shut that down.

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Speaker 1: He's like he's a member of like Antifa with a

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Speaker 1: capital A right, like like when Antifa was organized by

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Speaker 1: the KPD. So lots of these people have But who

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Speaker 1: is she? She's an American Jewish author who was sent

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Speaker 1: to cover the games by Esquire. Okay, they end up

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Speaker 1: stuck on a train just outside of Barcelona, and then

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Speaker 1: they watched this village that they're stuck in go through

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Speaker 1: its own tiny revolution, right, and it's suddenly run by

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Speaker 1: the people. Suddenly it's an anarchist village. Now it's run

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Speaker 1: by the people of the village, right. And then they

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Speaker 1: go into Barcelona and he joins, and we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: him a little bit later. Okay, it's it's this is

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Speaker 1: all written in her book Savage Coast, which is a

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Speaker 1: very good book that almost no one has read. But

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Speaker 1: it's a fantastic book and everyone should read it. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of a novelized version of her relationship with this

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Speaker 1: guy O Cool. So Barcelona pretty much at this point

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Speaker 1: becomes what George Will called a city where they're working

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Speaker 1: class within the saddle, right, And some of the athletes

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Speaker 1: took a liking to what they saw, and they didn't

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Speaker 1: like fascism, so they decided that it was worth joining

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Speaker 1: the fight that worked them out that morning. So the

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Speaker 1: US team was led by thirty two year old Abraham

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Speaker 1: Alfred chick Jacken. Everyone calls him Chick, right. So, like

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Speaker 1: so many of the foreigners who had fled to Spain

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Speaker 1: to fight, Jacob was Jewish. His parents had taken him

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Speaker 1: and his two siblings out of Russia when he was

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Speaker 1: just nine months old to look for a better life

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Speaker 1: in the USA. They had another daughter after they arrived,

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Speaker 1: and Chick grew up with two sisters and order brother.

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Speaker 1: His parents had left Europe to for the anti Semitism

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Speaker 1: and soon he would return to fight it. So I

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Speaker 1: want to read a little bit here from this guy

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Speaker 1: called Pierre Ackerman, who was another Jewish volunteer who fointed

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Speaker 1: the span Civil War. That his exclamation of why around

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Speaker 1: thirty percent of the Americans who fointed Spanish Civil War

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Speaker 1: were Jewish? That makes sense, Yeah, and about ten percent

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Speaker 1: ten all the foreign volunteers were Jewish. The pursuit of

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Speaker 1: money is also the pursuit of power. Have the programs

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Speaker 1: in the world been organized so as to distract attention

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Speaker 1: from the misery of the people by provoking hatred towards

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Speaker 1: the Jews? Well, those who are really responsible, the authors

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Speaker 1: of misery, laugh in secret because instead of attacking their power,

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Speaker 1: people slaughter the Jews. Your children, however, have not tolerated this.

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Speaker 1: They have not stooped, and they will not stay silent.

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Speaker 1: That rules. Yeah, Pierre Ackerman's incredibly based dude. Him and

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Speaker 1: his brother both die early in on in the Spanish

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Speaker 1: Civil War, but his his mother was very conservative and

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Speaker 1: remained very sort of religiously conservative, and he was extremely

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Speaker 1: radical right, but he by the end of his life

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Speaker 1: was righting to his mother. She was destroyed by the

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Speaker 1: fact that both her young sons went to fight and

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Speaker 1: both died, and him right back being like, we're not

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Speaker 1: so different, Like we're not it's different as you think.

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Speaker 1: It's it's really like it literally like I remember reading

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Speaker 1: those and it literally made me critic It's incredibly fucking

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Speaker 1: sad and so human. Now that that's really interesting to

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Speaker 1: me because you do get this like when we talk

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Speaker 1: about different, um, different communities that are economically disenfranchised or

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Speaker 1: different communities that are press in different ways, and I

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Speaker 1: feel like, um, Jewish folks have to deal with us

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Speaker 1: a lot is specifically the like what I saw about

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Speaker 1: last time, about the like Schrodinger's you know, bad Guy,

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Speaker 1: where you're communists or capitalist depending on whatever. But it is,

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Speaker 1: it's it's systems of trying to have power within a

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Speaker 1: system that has denied you that power. So I really

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Speaker 1: like that that he's saying, like, look, we have a

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Speaker 1: lot in common. We're trying to reclaim I mean I'm

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Speaker 1: putting words this mouth. But that's interesting to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. The there are some amazing like Jewish socialists

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Speaker 1: from Mandatory Palestine who or most of them been kicked

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Speaker 1: out of Mandatory Palestine by the British actually mhm. And

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Speaker 1: they and they're like anti Zionist some of them, and

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Speaker 1: they end up fighting in the Spanish Civil War and

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Speaker 1: they're like, it's amazing. People are the German work of

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Speaker 1: the Yiddish. It's called the Yiddish are Biter Sports Club.

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Speaker 1: Who heard all decamped on master to Paris by that time,

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Speaker 1: like some really amazing stories. There are some good books

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Speaker 1: about it too. So by nineteen six, i'll Jakin was

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Speaker 1: an accomplished fighter. He'd wrested at Cornell and narrowly missed

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Speaker 1: out an Olympic selection in the two US athletes who

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Speaker 1: did go to Olympics one golden silver. After graduating on

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Speaker 1: September twenty six with the bachelor's degree in education, he

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Speaker 1: won the nineteen seven Amateur Athletic Union Niagara District Wrestling Championships.

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Speaker 1: That was an Olympic qualifying game. Again, he got to

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Speaker 1: try out and bis didn't quite make it. Despite his success,

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Speaker 1: he didn't qualify for ninety eight games, perhaps because of

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Speaker 1: his persistent knee injury, and he decided to peticide his

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Speaker 1: Olympic dreams and up for a career in education. And

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Speaker 1: nine and thirty one years old, and he began a

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Speaker 1: master's degree, and he was teaching university in physical education

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Speaker 1: at the City University of New York. And he was

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Speaker 1: married to a woman named Jenny Berman. They actually hyphenated

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Speaker 1: their names rather than her taking his name, which was

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Speaker 1: pretty at ahead of their time. Yeah, they were very

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Speaker 1: like they used the word progressive. Actually the word progressive,

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Speaker 1: it would be the way they would use for themselves.

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Speaker 1: And so, yeah, they were extremely progressive. She was a

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Speaker 1: much more experienced activist than him. She was a social

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Speaker 1: worker and a communist. She graduated from Syracuse in and

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Speaker 1: headed directly to the city to begin organizing for the

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Speaker 1: Communist Party. And in the year before they married, she

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Speaker 1: made headlines which he left New York Jewish community social

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Speaker 1: services agencies in a walk up for union recognition. She's

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Speaker 1: she's pretty cool, pretty cool person. He was deeply influenced

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Speaker 1: by her convictions, game active in his union and joined

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Speaker 1: his campus Anti Fascist association in nineteen thirty five. His

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Speaker 1: his union had voted for a complete boycott of the

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Speaker 1: Berlin Games because they refused to send athletes to a

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Speaker 1: country that had discrimination as a national policy. So by

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Speaker 1: the time, yeah, it seems like a good goal, seems

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Speaker 1: like everyone should listened to them. He was also very

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Speaker 1: used to coaching people by the time the popular Olympics

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Speaker 1: came around, right by both like teaching at the university

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Speaker 1: and coaching wrestling, so he was the natural choice to

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Speaker 1: lead the team, right, But that's have still been kind

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Speaker 1: of nervous to him, like because he hadn't been wrestling

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Speaker 1: for a while, he was out of shape, and he's

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Speaker 1: going just like athlete and coach, he still got this

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Speaker 1: neee issue. He has to like squat down and pull

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Speaker 1: his knee back in. If you look at this dude,

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Speaker 1: he is very clearly hard as fucking nails. Had a

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Speaker 1: flat he knows he's yeah, He's send you a page

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Speaker 1: of him later. But some of his teammates he would

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Speaker 1: have known, right. Irving Jenkins, who was a heavyweight boxer,

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Speaker 1: was still at Cornell when they left for the Games.

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Speaker 1: As I said, the organizers placed a big emphasis and

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Speaker 1: having black folks in the United States come and if

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Speaker 1: you look at the posters for the games, there's one

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Speaker 1: on my wall, but you can't see it. The posters

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Speaker 1: feature like a people of different races walking together and

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Speaker 1: carrying flags, but they're like Catalan flags and Popular Front

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Speaker 1: flags into the stadium. And they were really invested in

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Speaker 1: this idea of like different genders, different races or competing

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Speaker 1: together as part of the Popular Front, which like, if

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Speaker 1: you look at the Little Olympics, it's mostly naked white dude, right, like,

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Speaker 1: like the whole propaganda is like it looks like the

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Speaker 1: Chippendale's kind of yeah, it's buff white dude in buff

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Speaker 1: white dude in thong. So some of the other folks

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Speaker 1: were Dot Tucker. She was a sprinter and a union

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Speaker 1: leader in Harlem. She was the only black woman on

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Speaker 1: the team. She's joined by Frank Payton, who's also a

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Speaker 1: sprinter and boxer, who with Charlie Burley. Charlie Burley is

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Speaker 1: kind of an interesting guy. He was younger than everyone else, thirteen,

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Speaker 1: younger than chicken, and he had a pretty difficult upbringing.

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Speaker 1: He was a mixed day. He was a boxer. That's

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Speaker 1: the perfect name for a boxer, Yeah, it is. I

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Speaker 1: hadn't even thought of that anyway in a life. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Burly Charlie. His dad was a black coal miner, his

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Speaker 1: mother was an irishwoman from County Cork, and he began

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Speaker 1: to box at the age of twelve. He won a

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Speaker 1: junior national title in the Golden Gloves competition and he

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Speaker 1: was seen as kind of the big hope for US boxing.

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Speaker 1: He only narrowly lost the senior competition in but he

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Speaker 1: refused to try out for the Berlin Games. He wasn't

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Speaker 1: going to go to Berlin, racist sass country and compete,

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Speaker 1: and so they invited him the last minute to Barcelona.

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Speaker 1: Right They left on a ship called the Transylvania on

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Speaker 1: the third of ju Line I, and another of the

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Speaker 1: athletes was called Burly dan Chick. He was a gymnast, Bernie,

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Speaker 1: not Burly, and he kept a diary. He writes about

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Speaker 1: the food on board. He said, we've been treated very nicely,

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Speaker 1: and he said, since we're on the road to fame,

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Speaker 1: everyone's being very kind. Basically, they would start up checking,

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Speaker 1: made him get up early every morning and run around

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Speaker 1: the deck to stay fit while he like sits on

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Speaker 1: a fucking like a chair the sun. He's like he

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Speaker 1: would have seen this rom com. I like this rom com. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would be a good rom com. He and the

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Speaker 1: two other earth Jenkins, Jarley Berlie and I'll Chack and

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Speaker 1: would all fight on the deck. They and then Bernie

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Speaker 1: Giant Chick was very piste off because there wasn't a

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Speaker 1: high bar in the gym, so he just sunk around

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Speaker 1: with the banisters and stuff. You can imagine. It's just

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Speaker 1: like this kind of a bunch of crazies on the boat.

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Speaker 1: They caused a lot of problem when they would go

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Speaker 1: into dinner right because they they found that their table

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Speaker 1: kept getting moved and normally on I guess on these

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Speaker 1: long boat trips. I'm not a not a person who

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Speaker 1: goes on long boat trips, but you have like an

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Speaker 1: a sign table. You said it every day. But they

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Speaker 1: kept moving the table for the Popua Olympics team, and

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Speaker 1: they work because people are racists. Because people were racist,

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Speaker 1: so you were the racism caused some rowdiness, so they

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Speaker 1: refused to They refused to move their table anymore, and

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Speaker 1: they refused to segregate their table. That worked out for them, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: they there's a ping pong tournament for everyone aboard the ship,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and that the baly Gantic writes about this

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Speaker 1: in the story. It's interesting to hear it from his perspective,

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Speaker 1: or he's a Jewish guy from New York. The Communist

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Speaker 1: Party in the United States and the nineteen thirties has

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Speaker 1: thoroughly embraced the cause of black folks in the United States, right,

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Speaker 1: it's genuinely invested in this, and he's read about it

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Speaker 1: a lot, and like it's also invested in this. But

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Speaker 1: they well, I guess. They're playing ping pong one night

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Speaker 1: and he realizes that the like Frank Payton Charlie Berley

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Speaker 1: team are gonna win. He's like, hell, yeah, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: fucking show them, like they're going to be owned. And

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Speaker 1: then they like throw the game and he's very upset.

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Speaker 1: But this he's like, oh, I see what's happened, Like

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Speaker 1: they don't want to win, they don't want to cause

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Speaker 1: the first Like that's really sucked up. Like yeah, he

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Speaker 1: writes it hurts, see what happened in his diary the

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Speaker 1: the black athletes throw the game. Yeah, such that they

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Speaker 1: don't like cause a deal with all the rich past

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Speaker 1: because they've they've learned how to navigate life as a Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they've learned that sort of code switching and things that

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Speaker 1: they have to do. And Bernie danjecause this this Jewish

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Speaker 1: guy from New York is like, damn, that's fucked up.

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Speaker 1: So that when they got there, they made sure that

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Speaker 1: they had all the black athletes standing at the front

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Speaker 1: for all the photographs and like put them forward for

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Speaker 1: interviews and such when they got to England because they

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Speaker 1: look you can see him having his realization. I think

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting because a sound like when things are

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Speaker 1: when you present things, and that when you see things

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Speaker 1: in the totally modern context, you could be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this seems like also a lot of like tokenization and stuff,

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Speaker 1: right you know, they're like, oh, we're going to make

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Speaker 1: sure that everyone's marching together with the flags. And it's

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Speaker 1: just like really interesting. You know, there's just like fine

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Speaker 1: line and they're like living in this very different context

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Speaker 1: where it seems like to me as a as a

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Speaker 1: white girl, but this is a very positive thing that

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Speaker 1: they're doing. Um that it's by having the black people

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Speaker 1: in front and having you know, the games, having very

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Speaker 1: intentionally like diverse photos and things like that. But it's

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Speaker 1: like it seems like this is before it gets like

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Speaker 1: all twisted into the current weird liberal heal version of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because it's not just representation politics, right, it's also like, oh,

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Speaker 1: like if someone wants to kill you because of the way,

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Speaker 1: because who you are, then I will kill them first

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Speaker 1: like that, which yeah they doing right, Like it's it's

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Speaker 1: not they don't Yeah that is literally what do Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they don't stop at the photograph, right, Like the response,

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Speaker 1: it's I think interesting that he's like sees maybe for

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Speaker 1: the first time ever, like like racism happening to his

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Speaker 1: friend in his responses like how can I show solidarity

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Speaker 1: with this person? And like what yeah, yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: I think it. Yeah, it's interesting that them negotiating that

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Speaker 1: space is really interesting in his diary. And I want

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Speaker 1: to write another book about all of this. So I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of sources here. Yeah, they'll be cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: hopefully I want to do biographies of each of these people.

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Speaker 1: So they arrived in Britain, they take a train through

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Speaker 1: France and they have the best time in Barcelona, right

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Speaker 1: that They're going out to bars, they're going out to clubs,

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Speaker 1: they're meeting like you know how it is like when

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Speaker 1: you're young, and you travel and you meet in a

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Speaker 1: bunch of other people who believe in the shame ship

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Speaker 1: you believe in. You're like, oh, that's amazing, Like and

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Speaker 1: I kind of I literally can't imagine a better time

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Speaker 1: in place to be alive than what you're describing. If

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Speaker 1: you've been brought up being like our sport isn't for you.

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Speaker 1: You're on the left sports and few you give a

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Speaker 1: funk about things that on sport, And then like you're

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Speaker 1: here are twenty thousand people You're in like Barcelona, which

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Speaker 1: is you know, the revolutions in the air, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I think they've checking sort of struggles to keep

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Speaker 1: them training. You can see the sort of suck it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna get drunk and fuck yes, they absolutely want

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Speaker 1: to get drunk and funk. They are like because sex

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Speaker 1: work is legal, right and unionized, and so they're going

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Speaker 1: to the brothel or whatever the place where you can

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Speaker 1: pay people for sex work and they're having your time

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Speaker 1: and like there, yeah, they're enjoying it. About five fifteen,

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Speaker 1: this radio announcement comes on, right and they start hearing

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Speaker 1: shooting in the street and his Darry entry for his

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Speaker 1: days comes the revolution with revolution in block capitals. So

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Speaker 1: they all go and stand on the bars of their

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Speaker 1: balcony and they watched their battle raging. They don't. He

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Speaker 1: also wrote in his daries other things, that they don't

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Speaker 1: do things by halves out here, and they that's true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they weren't working around. Yeah, so progressive that we don't

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Speaker 1: have a government. Okay, millions of people will fight for this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: people are, including some of you. So they kept looking

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Speaker 1: at they were so fascinated by what was going on.

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Speaker 1: They kept looking out the window, and then like snipers

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Speaker 1: would think they were at the snipers and shoot at

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Speaker 1: the window. So they go to another room and look

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Speaker 1: out the windows. I would stop, some of us would stuff.

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Speaker 1: They would be a one point, there's a lull in

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Speaker 1: the firing, and they go out and somehow we're able

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Speaker 1: to convey that they are athletes for the Olympics, and

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Speaker 1: everybody stopped shooting so they could go and get some food.

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Speaker 1: Both sides are, like he just wrote in his diary,

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Speaker 1: they stopped the war so that we can pass the

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Speaker 1: real like Moses moment. I guess. So once they've they've

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Speaker 1: been out, they realized that like the situation, right, the

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Speaker 1: barricades where things are happening. Charlie Bertie has been time

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Speaker 1: about a week. It doesn't speak Spanish. Weapons are in

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Speaker 1: very short supply. Most of people the barricades don't have them,

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Speaker 1: and so he grabs a crowbar starts leaving up stones

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Speaker 1: from the cobbled road and helping people build barricades. Hell yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's incredibly cool. So these guys are all drawn to help.

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Speaker 1: You can look at pictures. It's really interesting. You look

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Speaker 1: at pictures of July. You can see these barricades build

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Speaker 1: and then pop your Olympics posters in the background, and

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Speaker 1: people like there's there's one of people hiding behind the

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Speaker 1: ticket booths, like firing their little mousers out. It's very cool.

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Speaker 1: So by the evening co had been defeated. The next

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Speaker 1: day the anarchists would finish a job storming the barracks

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Speaker 1: and seezing thousands of rifles. This is when last for

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Speaker 1: the anarchists died because their tactic was mainly to just

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Speaker 1: run towards danger, which has like limited tactical prowess. Yeah mao,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, we had another episode about this. It's some

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Speaker 1: incredibly cool things happened, like they roll out rolls of

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Speaker 1: news print from the newspaper factory and use them as

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Speaker 1: an impromptu barricade to fire from behind, which is very cool.

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Speaker 1: So you can actually see as well, like sometimes you

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Speaker 1: can see at the barricade people are like that that

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Speaker 1: newsprint that newspaper, right, would it would have printed newspapers

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Speaker 1: that would have gone out. The newspapers went out the

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Speaker 1: night before to be read that day, so you can

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Speaker 1: see things which were written speculatively, being like, the opening

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Speaker 1: ceremony was a great success. Yeah, opening ceremony was we

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Speaker 1: stopped a bat. Yeah, they came there to do anti fascism,

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Speaker 1: so I guess it was a great success. And so

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Speaker 1: in the next few days industricual nationalized vehicles expropriated from

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Speaker 1: the homes of the plotters, Militia columns were formed from

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Speaker 1: the various unions, and the Popular Front took on a

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Speaker 1: physical form as the columns marchshoft to Zada fight. The

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Speaker 1: remaining athletes paraded through the city, singing the International in

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Speaker 1: various languages, led by Scottish bag This that's our goal.

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Speaker 1: We can play the International alright. So sadly not everyone

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Speaker 1: was so lucky. French athlete had been shot in the

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Speaker 1: first hours of the cue. The British wanted to leave

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Speaker 1: immediately and offered the Americans a place on their ship

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Speaker 1: the United States Continent. So they went to the continent

400
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Speaker 1: to be like what should we do. The concert was

401
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Speaker 1: like you leave today, or we're like we're washing our

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Speaker 1: hands of you. Basically that's yeah. I guess, like, look,

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Speaker 1: if you're trying to get out, you've got to get

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Speaker 1: out right now. Otherwise there was a boat for them.

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Speaker 1: Bernie Dan chicks. Darry is incredibly funny. He's like a

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Speaker 1: kid who had to let go home from sound accomp Berlie.

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Speaker 1: He writes, all of my Spanish pals have left, with

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Speaker 1: Gossa and Valencia in the army, like he's sad. They

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Speaker 1: went to one bar for a final time and then

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Speaker 1: say goodbye to the city and the days of father.

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Speaker 1: Not everyone left. About four hundred athletes side is take

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Speaker 1: up arms and stay and fight for the Republic, And

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about some of them for the

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Speaker 1: rest of this episode. Okay, do you know who probably

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Speaker 1: won't take up arms and kill fascists because they don't

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Speaker 1: have arms, because they have a little turtle legs. Yeah, Oh,

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Speaker 1: you're tell about the ads. The kinds of people who

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Speaker 1: advertise on the show are on like you could mount

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Speaker 1: It's a weapon on a turtle if you wanted to.

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Speaker 1: They have a decently high armor class. But um on

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Speaker 1: the table too. That's white bass. Yeah, that's true. Slow

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Speaker 1: and steady wins the race. What they say, the turtle tank.

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Speaker 1: We're brought to you by turtle Tank, genetically engineered monsters

424
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: on our side. You ever want to see a turtle

425
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: eat a Nazi turtle tank? It's right, Yeah, Boston Dynamics

426
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: didn't know that was coming. No, that's the The other

427
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: side uses the robots we have. Yeah, it's like red

428
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: Wall meats I Warhammer. Okay, here's that. Alright, we're back.

429
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: There was an advert for turtle tank, please buy one.

430
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: So one of these guys is called Bill Scott. His

431
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: actual name is Willoughby, which is a belting name, but

432
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: he went by Bill for probably obvious reasons. He's a

433
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: Protestant bricklayer whose father had fought in the Irish Citizen

434
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: Army in the Eastern Rising. He himself had fought with

435
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: the i RA, and he traveled to the to the

436
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: Games to represent a free an independent island. So one

437
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: of the one of the things about the Games with

438
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 1: people competed as nations and not states. Yeah, so like

439
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: the exiled Jews of Europe. Like, if you're a German

440
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: Jewish person, you don't really want to be competing for

441
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: Germany given the general vibes. Yeah, yeah, it's bad. Yeah,

442
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: no one could quite pick up on it. But if

443
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: bad ship was going down, so they decided to compete

444
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: as the exiled Jews of Europe, right, Like as a group,

445
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: the colonized people want to get to compete for their colonizer, right,

446
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: So an island, it's colonized country, right, so they're not

447
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 1: going to compete for the colonizer. He had presumably had

448
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: his enough of repressive regimes and impression national identity after

449
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: he was imprisoned by the British military, and so he

450
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: decided he was going to stay in Spain. He's an

451
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: experienced fighter, doesn't like fascists. Yeah, I mean that makes

452
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: sense here an IRA fighter, like, yeah, a large number

453
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: of Ira men for in the in the Spanish Civil War. Also,

454
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: a number of Irish Catholics went to join Franco fashions.

455
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. They actually also did a very good

456
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: job of shooting fascists. I heard that they didn't mean to.

457
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: It's a major difference, you know, you say they didn't

458
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: mean to, but I like to believe, yeah, they had

459
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: a moment on things, so we can we can have

460
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: that one for ourselves and like, okay, and this is

461
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: like an important thing to think about. It is because

462
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: I think we oversimplify Irish struggle as like Catholic versus Protestant,

463
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: which is like not fucking true. And so yeah, you're

464
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 1: like this Protestant, I ra a fighter, went and fought

465
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: for the republic, you know, versus like, go ahead, people

466
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,719
Speaker 1: of Catholic heritage also fought through republic and famously an

467
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: institution which burned churches and disinterred nuns. Yeah, but which

468
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: you know is based. But that's another one that gets

469
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: me banned from Twitter quite a lot, actually, is the

470
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: burned church with the disinterned nuns. And see, I I

471
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: would actually hold that's like part of why we threw

472
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: the twentieth century is that, um, by being like so

473
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: obsessively materialist, I understand why people were being like fun

474
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: the Spanish Catholic Church, right, it was like this oppressive

475
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 1: institution or whatever. But like I think when it just

476
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: became this like therefore only militant atheists need apply. Everyone

477
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: is not a militant atheist is like Okay, I guess

478
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: I gotta go fight on that other side. Yeah, that's fair.

479
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: So interestingly, like if you look at the churches they burned,

480
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: people very ready burnt churches in their village or neighborhood.

481
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: They like went to the other church. The churches where

482
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: the priests had been like genuinely like compassionate even though

483
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: it didn't disagree, tended don't get burned. Also, lots of

484
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,239
Speaker 1: the churches in Barcelona we used a sniper's nest by

485
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: the fascist so that that one's getting burned. No, and yeah,

486
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: and a lot of the priests were like specifically working

487
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: with the fascist regime. And then like I'm under the

488
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: impression and you would know more about this that in

489
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: the Basque country, Um, the like anti church stuff didn't

490
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: really happen because the church wasn't on the fascist side

491
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: as much. In the car the car Lists who were

492
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: part of that were on the fascist side. Um okay, yeah,

493
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: but they were like radical Catholics and we're talking about

494
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: cards in the day they stuck Okay, like people whose

495
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: whole thing is like some niche argument about royal lineage

496
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: and a bit of prepared to die for that, which

497
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: they did. Fortunately, everyone gets what they want. Yeah, yeah,

498
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: they get to meet the guy that they're so big into.

499
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: So Bill's got fights in the tom Mann Cinturia. What

500
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: happens is that in the days after the coup, these

501
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: national groups organizing into what are called centuria, which are

502
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's a word from Roman legions, center

503
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: and century. Yeah, a hundred people, which they weren't, but

504
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: they're broadly based on like you have like the Botwin

505
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: centurion who are allargedly Jewish. We have Gustavo stores, the Italians,

506
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: tom Mann English speaking, so they're broadly based on language groups. Right.

507
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: I think the Commune of Paris Centurio was the French one.

508
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: Let's say, yeah, yeah, there was a Salomon which was

509
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: German speaking, and Salmon was the like the leader of

510
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: Antifa when it was a KPD organization. He spent a

511
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: seven years in solitary confinement in a concentration camp, killed

512
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: in yeah, his his, he got it fucking rough TV.

513
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: The prelude to the popular Olympics, they did like a

514
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: trial event, and it was called the Thalament Cup, like

515
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: in sort of recognition of him. And so Bill Scott

516
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: got shot in the throat and returned home to stand

517
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: for election as a candidate for the Communist Party of Ireland.

518
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: How many how many people because or what got shot

519
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 1: in the throat? This is just like a throat shooting competition. Yeah, clearly,

520
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what for the throat? Yeah? Is that

521
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: very effective? They always survived? Yeah, well yeah, they Well,

522
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: I think we've got a skewed star boy here. A

523
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: survivor's bias might be all right. And so he gets

524
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: booted out for a Republican candidate, and so he returned

525
00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: to Spain it gets shot in the leg. Yeah, and

526
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: again these people are fucking incredible. Don't never say that. Yeah.

527
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: He goes back and then leaves the Communist Party because

528
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: he's disgusted by the monitor of ribbon truck tract. Yeah.

529
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: You see a lot of these people do exactly that,

530
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: like them leaving forty one and from then until his

531
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: death he gives writes letters to editors and gives interviews

532
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: talking about how like we've forgotten the memory of what

533
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: the popular friend was, what the Spanish civil war was

534
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: what this moment was, which is really cool. Like another

535
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: thing you see about these guys is they're dedicated to

536
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: preserving their memory. Another person I want to talk about,

537
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: and I think this is a woman you may have

538
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: been confused with Marina Janesta, is called Fanny Schoenheit. Okay,

539
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: Fanny is a Dutch woman. She kind of got bored

540
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: of living there and moved to Barcelona because she I

541
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: think she wanted to be a war correspondent, but she

542
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: wasn't really having much luck. She game committed communists and

543
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: she helped organize the games, right she was. She was

544
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: one of the people who like helped put it on.

545
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: They had lots of lots of They had a very

546
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: liberal asylum policy in a republic, so you had a

547
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: lot of anti fascist Germans Italians. So she probably stepped

548
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: in the stadium the night before the games, like most

549
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: of them did, which probably prevented her and thousands of others,

550
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: hundreds of others from fascist turning up at their homes

551
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: to kill them the next day. So instead she said

552
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: about killing fascists. Asks of soldiers marked their barracks. Yeah, yeah,

553
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: she was good at this point. March of their barracks

554
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: into Buslona and left us across the city. Grab guns

555
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: had hidden away or picked up the weapons some soldiers

556
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: who had no further use for them barricades because they

557
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: were dead. Barricades sprang up across the streets, and snipers

558
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: took up positions in rooftops and church towers. Somehow, at

559
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: this point Fanny shoon hit manages to get a submachine gun.

560
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: I don't know how unless she had anarchist friends, because

561
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: the anarchists fucking loved a submachine gun. I love to

562
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: drive by shooting like they really they'd watched the films

563
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: about Chicago and they were into it, Like the Rutie

564
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: talks a lot about his machine pistol and how cool

565
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: it is. Of course, yeah yeah, yeah to bank, yeah yeah,

566
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: well yeah, that's what they were trying to be. Yeah.

567
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: I want to quote here from excellent article in The

568
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: Volunteer by von Scholton, who's written a biography of Schoonheight.

569
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: In a letter to a friend in Rotterdam, she later

570
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: described her she and her comrades and to the military

571
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: barracks from the roof and how they confiscated the arms

572
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: found there. I wore a rather conspicuous yellow shirt. It's

573
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: a miracle they didn't shoot me, she said. But perhaps

574
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: they were supposed surprised to see me that they forgot

575
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: it might have been surprised to see a lady in

576
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: a yellow shirt with a submachine gun. But she was

577
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: soon wearing a more conventional uniform in the militia. Like

578
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: thousands of other people with little to know military experience,

579
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: she joined the militia that day, and unlike many of them,

580
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: she survived. Almost every newspaper in the city carried an

581
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: interview with her, and and it's she became known as

582
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: the Queen of the machine Gun in the Catalan press.

583
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: I want to keep liking her. I like her right now. Yeah,

584
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna you just hold back on the Michie Well,

585
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: I didn't look at she she was young. She was

586
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: doing a thing. Yeah, Sandy shouldn't always use her queen

587
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: of machine Gun powers for good. But seven she'd become

588
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: an officer in the People's Army, and the malicious are

589
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: gradually being regularized, made into a more militarized another word

590
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,239
Speaker 1: under Soviet influence. Right, a longstanding kidney. She brought her

591
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: back from the front. And it's really fucking annoying actually

592
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: to read about this in the Spanish press, where they're like, oh, yeah,

593
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: her kidneys were bad and so she had to come

594
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: back and to read about it. Sometimes it's written about

595
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: like a Dutch press where they're like it was too

596
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: much for her sensitive constitution. I mean, like, if I

597
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: only once in my life dropped through the roof of

598
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: a fascist place with not no uniform and just a

599
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: submachine gun and submachine got a bunch of bunch of

600
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 1: guys and take all their guns, if I do that

601
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: once in my life and then I'm done forever, like

602
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: one that, Yeah, that's enough for anyone's sensibility. That's enough. Yeah,

603
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: Like like that's PTSD land. Even when you win, you know,

604
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: like you'll be seeing them dead people for the rest

605
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: of you. Yeah, yes, yeah, even if they were bad people. Yeah.

606
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: One doesn't have to particularly sensitive to be impacted by that. Yeah. Anyway,

607
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: So she becomes a machine gun instructor and teaching a

608
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: bunch of other people to shoot machine guns. But in

609
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: the event of May seven, which people will probably be

610
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: familiar with as when communists and Nonstylinist communists and the

611
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: non Stalinist comunists who joined by the anarchists for Industry

612
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: of Barcelona. People will maybe have read Georgie was but

613
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: commics to Catalonia. He did a good book, book three D.

614
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: He mentions it. In the central Square Barcelona plub day Catalunia,

615
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: there's a landmark which is the Hotel Colon, Alo writes.

616
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: The Hotel Colon, the headquarters of the pursuit, dominated the

617
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: plaza in a window near the last oh but one

618
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: in the huge Hotel Colon that sprawled across its face.

619
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: They had a machine gun that could sweep the entire

620
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: square with deadly effect. Unfortunately, it was probably Fanny Schoenheight

621
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: who was manning this machine gun, So she was machine

622
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: gunning anarchist by and other Martias even yeah, yeah, the

623
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: Marxist people who weren't trotsky As, despite what you might

624
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: read on Twitter dot com. Yeah, it's rather sad, this split.

625
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: It's it's something like we can't go into in death,

626
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 1: but it's just split's very sad. It's at the beginning

627
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: of the end of the Cathleen Revolution. She did, she

628
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: did spend time after she was injured in a car

629
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: crash in Tatraghana and what she was recovering. She had

630
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: a brief relationship with Ramon Mercabert, who is famous for

631
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 1: killing Trotsky with an ice axe. Huh so she she's

632
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 1: she's lived alife. Yeah, she at some point, perhaps due

633
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: to the fact that like international newspapers couldn't fathom that

634
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: a lady was going around machine gunning people. Okay, wait

635
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: to go back to the ice axe. Yeah see I

636
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: always heard ice pick. And there is an object that

637
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: is both of these things. Yeah see I said ice

638
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: pick yesterday and and friend of the show Robert Evans

639
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: told me it was an ice axe. Well, because there's

640
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: something I imagine an ice axe with a pick. It

641
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: could seem like a pick, right, But there's also an

642
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: ice pick that's basically a screwdriver that you used to

643
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: like clean ice out of something. And it makes so

644
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 1: much more sense when you picture it with a handle

645
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: and an ice It all makes more sense now. Yeah,

646
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: look at like it like you would use for climbing,

647
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: like you got a self arrest or whatever you Yeah,

648
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: I was imagining like I got to get him in

649
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: the ear or something, you know, like a little spike

650
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: on a a handle like, yeah, like got to get

651
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: in the eye or whatever, you know. I think it was.

652
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: I think it was a fairly violent one thing. Yeah,

653
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: I didn't. I haven't. I don't know enough about Trotsky

654
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: to have known how he does. It's that anyway, big

655
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: understand it. And yeah, yeah, she just moved to the

656
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: Dominican Republic, didn't tell anyone what she's been doing before,

657
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: and just like had a different life. Okay, after this,

658
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: I do want to thank Anna van Vellen for helping

659
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: me translate some of the articles from Dutch about her.

660
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: You know, what, do you know who won't drive an

661
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: ice tool into your skull? I mean, see, this is

662
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: the thing, is like when we're talking about the advertisers,

663
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: I don't feel confident saying yeah it's not it's not

664
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: a given. But yeah, I don't even know about I

665
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: know about that. The turtle tank. They can't close their

666
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: hands right because of their width to arm length ratios.

667
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: An ice pick, No, that's pretty safe. But if you

668
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: have a turtle tank and and I sacks, you could

669
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 1: drive by ice as people by jumping from the back

670
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: of the turtle tank. No phenomenal stuff. Yeah, and if

671
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: you do it once GTSD for the rest of your life. Yeah, yeah,

672
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: you're killing people, probably actually fox you up. Yeah, it's

673
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: not We're not supposed to do it. No, but turtle

674
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: tank will help you if you decide you want to

675
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: be a pacifist by a turtle tank. Turned out that

676
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: for I'll check, and leaving on that ship wasn't so

677
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: much goodbye as esta pronto. He returned home to the

678
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: home he shared with Jenny Berman. The second even gives

679
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: you the dress if you want. It was one street

680
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: over from the townhouse where Winston Churchill's grandparents lived at

681
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: think of the area had taken a turn for the worst,

682
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: and it certainly wasn't sort of place where rich British

683
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: people live. They lived on a tall, skinny block of

684
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: flat since an area dominated by clothing manufacturing. They were

685
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 1: close to Madison Square Park and to Madison Square Guard.

686
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: When he came home, he attended lots of Union rallies

687
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden. You can see evidence of that.

688
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: When they came home, he obsessively followed news of Spain,

689
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: but after a few months he still felt pulled back.

690
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 1: Even though he was speaking at fundraisers, he didn't feel

691
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: like he was doing enough, so a year later he

692
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: decided to go back. He set sail on the seventh.

693
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: Which guy is this again? I'm sorry, this is al

694
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: Jake instance, dude with the flat nose. This is the

695
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: the wrestling coach. The coach okay, the one who in

696
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: my mind was sitting on the lawn chair watching everyone

697
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 1: else run labs. But that is not actually the case.

698
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: He was running laps with them. Yes, more hands are

699
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: seemed to have been okay, yeah, more of a more

700
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: of a leaded by doing guy. He's leaving on the

701
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: seventh of July, which is like a year and four days.

702
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: Alad he left the first time. He lands exactly a

703
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: year after the uprising began, and from set casts he

704
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: takes a train to a city. On the t rain

705
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: you could read like these accounts of the International brigades

706
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: coming down the train. People all along the route would

707
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: come and like wave and be like super happy to

708
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: see them, and try and try and trade oranges for

709
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: cigarettes they couldn't get. And if they are all these

710
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: very funny accounts of International brigadiers like just getting crippling

711
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: like a diarrhea from eating too many oranges their first

712
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: military experience. And they went to Albacette where they trained,

713
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: he joined what was called the Mcenti Papino Battalion that

714
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: was being stood up in July. They were better known

715
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: as the mac Paps. Although at this time most of

716
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: the volunteers were from the United States, it was officially

717
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 1: a Canadian battalion, and most of them were working class

718
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: men from areas like Nova Scotia, right. A lot of

719
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: them Jewish as well, and most of them had lost

720
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 1: jobs in depression, educated themselves about the left and decided

721
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: to come and fight in International Brigades. Their traveled to

722
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,959
Speaker 1: Spain was illegal, but they felt the consequences of staying

723
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: home were much worse. Yeah, they were, as International Brigades

724
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,919
Speaker 1: unions go, they're pretty old. Most of them were over

725
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: thirty and highly motivated. So they're like people who are

726
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: really in it to win it. They're not like there

727
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: were definitely people in the International Brigades who are like,

728
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 1: I'm twenty one, funckt why not? Right? Like, um, this

729
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: wasn't one of those groups in the most parts, and

730
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: they kind of this is my parents are afraid of fascism.

731
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm afraid of fascism. I will destroy fascism. I'm going

732
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: to go do it. Yeah, yes, Yeah, I've spent my

733
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: life fighting bears in Canada. Now I will come and

734
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: fight fascists the Canadians and spancy of always fascinating. There

735
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: was also like one of the first battlefield or like

736
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: at least frontline blood transfusion set ups in the world,

737
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: well set up by a Canadian doctor. He would drive

738
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: around in a Renault two turned van. Yeah, like it

739
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: was like literally set it was a milk truck inside, right,

740
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: just an old timey milk truck would go and deliver blood,

741
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: blood transfusions to save soldiers lives. And so. One of

742
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: the articles that Jacken probably saw when he was in

743
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: New York was George Steers account of the bombing of Guernica.

744
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: Places I used to give tours to American kids. Jenny

745
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: also probably read Steers report. It was really like one

746
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: of the pieces of reporting that change people's perspective on

747
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: the Spanish Civil War war than anything else, even though

748
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 1: other cities have been bombed all around the world, Even

749
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: though other cities were bombed in Spain, it was that

750
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: those images of little children thrown around like rag dolls,

751
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: or columns of refugees marching out of town were the

752
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: one that's that really drove solidarity to Spain more than

753
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: anything else. She probably also saw the poster featuring a

754
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: feast ring, a picture of a dead child, and a

755
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: squadron of flashes fascist planes flying overhead. That was there

756
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: if you tolerate this, your children will be next poster,

757
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: which is a pretty famous fantasy fool war face and

758
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 1: just true, just really true, objectively true. It's also the

759
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: name of a song about Man Street Preachers, which is

760
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: a very good song. That song is why I really

761
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: got into Spanish of the war stuff, and I was like,

762
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: well that's cool. Yeah it was cool, but yeah, it

763
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: remains true. It is true now, it was true then,

764
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: and I think she definitely noticed the treuth of that.

765
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: So she came to spend a month after our She

766
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: she came in August. Women at that time weren't me

767
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 1: taking as international volunteers, so she couldn't fight to defend

768
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: those children, but what she could do was user skill.

769
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: She had to help them because remember she was a

770
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 1: social worker, right where. I have no functional memory for names. Okay,

771
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: she's his wife, yes, okay, great, but they hyphenate their names.

772
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm just using the last name and chacking. So she

773
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: comes months after him, and along with five other women

774
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: from the Lowery Shide, she arrives in Spain and she's

775
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: going to work with the two hundred thousand children who

776
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: have been made orphaned by the war. Right these child refugees,

777
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: she believed art was an important way for children to

778
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: process their traumatic experiences, and so her and her friends

779
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: start up creating the first ever art therapy program for

780
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: children in wartime. Yeah, it's super cool. The children made

781
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: thousands of drawings. Actually oldest Huxley wrote the there's a

782
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: there's an exhibit of these drawings, and the The Cataler

783
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: was written by alders Taxley. Yeah, who was actually pretty cool. Yeah,

784
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: cool guy, good books. Maybe read it. And so the

785
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 1: drawings are pretty pretty hard when you know what happened.

786
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: Pretty a priot. You can see them actually there you

787
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: see San Diego. There's an exhibit on the library website

788
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: called they still draw pictures Like I used to go

789
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: and look at these drawings all the time when I

790
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 1: was there. But like her, they also have hope. There's

791
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: one amazing picture which shows a Spanish peasant faith almost

792
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: He's burying an axe deep in the head of a dragon,

793
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: wearing a swastika. Yeah, it's yeah, it's like if your

794
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: child comes home from school ho having drawn that today,

795
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: you have absolutely fucking aced it as a parent. And

796
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what the teachers are telling you. They're

797
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: doing fine. Yeah, if you're in San Diego going special collections,

798
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: lie very nicely and you can go and see the

799
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: I want to see that picture. I gotta Yeah, yeah,

800
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: it's on. It's on the Abraham Lincoln bring a Veterans

801
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: to the over had Labor Gade website. I'm making a

802
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 1: note for myself because yeah, yeah, it's my interests. Yes,

803
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: it is. The when he left Spain, slogan had been

804
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: no passavan right, they shall not pass, and the slogan

805
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: changed to pass we shall passed. So at this point

806
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: he wasn't really capable of doing that much passing. His

807
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 1: knee was so bad that he had to squat down

808
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: and wrench it back into place whenever it dislocated. His wife, Jenny,

809
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: considered telling the recruiters about this, she decided not to.

810
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 1: When he arrived, things are in a pretty bad state

811
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: with the internet to brigade the increasing like regularization under

812
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: mostly Soviet control. You have all these officers who are

813
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: called Mexicans, they are not Mexicans. That they're from the

814
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: Soviet Union, various parts of the Soviet Unions. Some of

815
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: them are white Russians actually, So like the white Russians

816
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 1: felt that if they volunteered to fight in the Spanish

817
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: Civil War, they'd be allowed to return home. And so

818
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: this odd thing of like white Russians dedicated, like Polish

819
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: and Hungarian communists working together with Spanish anarchists to fight

820
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: fascists and monarchist and that they seem to to have

821
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: worked it out the like early in the war. Really

822
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: like it was it was anarchists doing really brave shit

823
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: that had been integral to the success of the second

824
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: public military strategy. By this point that had stopped and

825
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 1: for the most part, those sort of left libertarian people

826
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: were being actively persecuted, right. There were still anarchist units,

827
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: there was anarchist militia units, there were still anarchists in

828
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: the International Brigade, but at the sort of the beginning

829
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: of the end for the alliance between communist and annists

830
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: been persecuted by the Communist that's what you're saying, that's correct. Yeah,

831
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: Like the s I M. The Service in Talligentia militari

832
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: of the Military intelligence Service probably interrogated more anarchists and

833
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: it did fascists in fact core that's really good way

834
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: to have a united front. Yeah, it's great. There were

835
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: active fascist saboteurs in the headquarters of the like Andre

836
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: Marti who ran the International Bargator. There were fascist saboteurs

837
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: from this French group. Actually they were funded by the

838
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: Laureal Cosmetics Empire. By that stuff. They they were actively

839
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: sabotaging stuff, They put like sand into machine anserity and

840
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,919
Speaker 1: they never got caught because they were so busy looking

841
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: for anarchists. Yeah, and then also finding out that like

842
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: all of the fucking high up communists who were like

843
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 1: behind a lot of the repression then also got purged

844
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: and fucked over and sailed by Stalin. It's like Daddy's

845
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: Stalin doesn't love you. He's going to kill all of you,

846
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: like you'll get you to kill the anarchists, and then

847
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: he's going to kill you because you were too close

848
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: to them. Yes, they go ahead. No, the general who organizes,

849
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: he's not really fair to say, he organizes to defense

850
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: to Madrid, but he gets a credit for at the

851
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: time and then he's called Claib. Claiber is not his

852
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: real name, but that's the name that he They all

853
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: use different names, and then suddenly like they make him

854
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: up to this big thing, right like clai By the

855
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: Savior of Madrid. And then two months later he's been

856
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: accused of claiborism, which is like promoting oneself in the media.

857
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying he was blamed as because he

858
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 1: was anyways deeply at fault, but yeah, maybe stop purging

859
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: your own side. Yeah, and hot tip from cool people,

860
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: cool tips. One of cool people did cool stuff. Purges

861
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: generally speaking, not a positive verb. There's yeah anywhere you

862
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: cut it. Yeah, wow fuck yeah, don't be purging. Yeah,

863
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: I was going to say it, Yeah, don't do it.

864
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: So the the MC perhaps first saw actually at point

865
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: to Debro preparing for the assault was probably an absolute

866
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: nightmare for Chicken because the fuel didn't arrive for the

867
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 1: trucks to take them to the front, right, And as

868
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: he's a quartermaster and later an armor us so g's

869
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: his job to organize, like getting the people the stuff

870
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: that they need. So when imagine that this was something

871
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: of a bit of a below to him. So they

872
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 1: instead had to march right, and they look like a

873
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: wagon train from a Western movie, like they're they're marching

874
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,479
Speaker 1: across the dry plains, which is giant plume of dust.

875
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: It's very obvious where they're going. And they end up

876
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: fighting at bell Cheat, where they developed the innitiative, innovative

877
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: tactic of U. So what would happen would be that

878
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: generally they would hold up in the church right that

879
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: the Francois troops because I had thick, old medieval walls,

880
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: and so they developed the in detective of rolling their

881
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: anti tank guns right up to the church, pressing them

882
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: up against it and shooting through the walls that way.

883
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: It can't be good for the hearing. No, yeah, it's incredible.

884
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: They fought like house to house, room to room. This

885
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 1: is their first introduction to combat. Right that the people

886
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: who on the way to the battle, they pulled over

887
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: got out of the truck and each got five rounds

888
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: so they could learn to use the gun like this is.

889
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: They're they're not like hugely professionally prepared so as they

890
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: are the Americans, but then are like New York City.

891
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:54,479
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, it took any Some of the guns

892
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 1: they used were made in America, sold to Czarius Russia,

893
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: sold by Zarius Russia to Mexico, and then imported by

894
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: the Spanish Second Republic from Mexico. So they're really good

895
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: modern weapons. Georgia will fucking love that. That's they were

896
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: most ins Yeah, yeah, Georgia will absolutely love the most

897
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: in the gun. Yeah, for the time they were finding

898
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: they were very happy to have thin compared to some

899
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: of the other stuff they had. It's fair enough. They

900
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: you can also read if anyone's ever like bought an

901
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,399
Speaker 1: old military servile's gun. Often they come when cosmoline, which

902
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 1: is like a thick goo um and you want to

903
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: clean that off before you use it, and you can

904
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: read in their accounts that they don't clean it off,

905
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: and like they're all getting burnt from when they start

906
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: used to get the barrel heats up and it leaks out.

907
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus was just burning oil coming and they're probably

908
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: like slipping on it and then like dropping it and

909
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: then like slipping in the fucking grease. Yeah, which is

910
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: not what you want your first time being shot at.

911
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: They also took part in like a very experimental vehicle

912
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: born infantry attack. You still see the Russians doing this right,

913
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: they'll sit on top of Hanks when this is just

914
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: their doctrine that the first time that's happened was with

915
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: the mac Paps. Unfortunately, tanks got stuck in the mud

916
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 1: and so that went pretty badly for them. They also

917
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: took part in the Battle of terry Well, which is

918
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 1: battle begins actually with a scene that probably inspired Hemingway's

919
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: book for him, The Bell Tolls. There are these two

920
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: guys called Irving Golf and Bill Alto. Bill Alto was gay,

921
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: and it does not seem to have been like computable

922
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: for Hemingway, like he deceivesed, just like, no, not putting

923
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: that in there. It's a short word. He should like. Yeah, yeah,

924
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: it's really sad to having to bill To actually like

925
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 1: this guy. He trains to be a guerrilla in Moscow,

926
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: comes back to Spain and does he's behind enemy lines

927
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: blowing up bridges. M that's so yeah, it's very cool.

928
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: And then he comes back and he's basically they one

929
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: of his comrades to find out he's gay, and it

930
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: gives him up to the Communist Party and they reject him.

931
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,479
Speaker 1: And it's fucking like, I don't know what the fund

932
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: is wrong? With people. Fuck every part of that. Okay, yeah,

933
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: like it did. What what then you're doing is, dude,

934
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: it's literally like I was prepared to die next to

935
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: you and kill for you, and here you are. And

936
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: this was there were a lot of gay people in

937
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: in the international gage right, The commander of one of

938
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: the British battalions was gay people and it was known,

939
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: like it wasn't a secret. Yeah, the common tern didn't

940
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: like it, but like there was still that they weren't

941
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: entirely controlled by the comment turn and like if people

942
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: were good at what they were doing, and they were

943
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: good at killing fascist and it wasn't a paramount concern. Yeah,

944
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: So when in doubt why some centralized authority in Russia

945
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: says you should do, isn't what you should do? Yeah,

946
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: just don't do it, especially if they've already given you guns.

947
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: They can't stop you. Yeah, you know, if that's what

948
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: they guns for. Yeah. And actually another fine purjory. So

949
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: like Christmas right just before the Battle of Terror, well,

950
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: Paul Robeson visits themac paps and sing some a song

951
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: on probably some songs, and then he goes back to

952
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: Paris to perform a concert to raise funds for international brigades,

953
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: and that's when the purchase of the old quote unquote

954
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: old old Bolsheviks started. And he hears about it just

955
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: before he goes on stage and he's like, fuck you,

956
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 1: I'm not doing a concert, Like hell yeah, yeah, interesting guy,

957
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 1: Paul Robinson a lot to read about him. His pain too. Uh.

958
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 1: The next day after they raged, he had a concert

959
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: and they all got drunk. Their commander got them up

960
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: and made them march with the snow so they would

961
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: wake up. Frank had adverted his troops from madridgit Well

962
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: and that began a battle. There was every bit of

963
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: freezing and every bit of terrible as Stalingrad, and it

964
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: probably should have provided the world with the vision of

965
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: what was happening, but the word wasn't paying attention. Franco

966
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: reported when he he captured the city, he hadn't a

967
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: British reporter Kim Philoby. Kim Philby was actually a spy

968
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: who was actively trying to kill Franco at the time.

969
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: It was reporting from the nationalist side, and he tried

970
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: to go into tell a Well thinking that it had

971
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: been liberated because Franco had just been bullshitting about this. Yeah,

972
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: he's going in as a fascist. He's not a fascist.

973
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: He's trying to kill Franco. He gets shot but survives,

974
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: and it is given a medal by Franco for his bravery,

975
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: which God plays off this medal to spy on fascists

976
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: for decades. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, he managed to all

977
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,479
Speaker 1: this work in the UK because he's like this, this,

978
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: this recognition by Franco allows him to be a communist

979
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: spy in the United Kingdom for years. People are fucking wild. Yeah,

980
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: it's yeah, this guy's like ping pong ball, Like following

981
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: his trajectory is just insane. So Chicken and his unit

982
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 1: spent New Years, he was speaking, sleeping on the hillside

983
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: above the town. Soon one in Tenethm would have frost bite.

984
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: Local anarchists joined them and they taught the foreign volunteers

985
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: taught the local anarchists how to clean their rifles and

986
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: Phil Phil sam bags Apparently for some reason, the anarchists

987
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: had not been taught and didn't know how to clean

988
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: the rifles until this point. Like it's a major bonus

989
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: to their operational capability. Yeah yeah, So they moved to

990
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: this position like over watching the faster sort of fighting,

991
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: and they watched this young unit of Catalan anarchists who

992
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: have all arrived in Alpagatas, which are like rope sold sandals,

993
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: and they watch these guys attack and allegedly like this

994
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: is this incredibly brave thing where they're supposed to retreat

995
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: and they refused to retreat. They're not going to leave

996
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 1: their friends behind. And even the German common so the

997
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: Germans had this idea of German Thalamon unit in the

998
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: International Brigade type, this idea that they were very disciplined

999
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: communists and superior to or the other units and superiority anarchists.

1000
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: And then these Germans like I don't want to say tankies,

1001
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: but like authoritarian communists, the applaud these anarchists for their

1002
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: battle in world like okay, So this gets into my

1003
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: theory that despite the anarchists being incredibly anti Catholic in Spain,

1004
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: um the fact that they were so die hard. Yes, yeah,

1005
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 1: it is not a coincidence that it was a Catholic country.

1006
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: It is not a coincidence that they all come from

1007
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: this Catholic heritage. Yeah, and like and even the like

1008
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: do what's right, not what's safe, you know, that is

1009
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: like part of the Catholic like, at least the cultural

1010
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: conception of Catholics is not necessarily church doctrine or whatever.

1011
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: So I like, I don't think it's a coincidence that

1012
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:35,919
Speaker 1: the place where the anarchists are like sometimes not intelligently

1013
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: throwing themselves at machine gun nests, but you will not

1014
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: lack for courage space. Yeah. Yeah, it continually keeps happening

1015
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: that they'll just like keep doing these attacks and will

1016
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: be like what the fuck, bro, like no, and without

1017
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: stopping now Yeah, and it is comic and tragic, comic,

1018
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 1: but yet this idea of like propaganda of the deed

1019
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: and like its most political religion, it's it's hard not

1020
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: to see it. And some of this ship. Yeah, and

1021
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 1: so by the end of the battle when they end

1022
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 1: up fighting, like in the town house to house, nearly

1023
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: three hundred of Chicken's unit have died, right, Like it's

1024
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 1: an absolute fucking blood bath. Temperatures dropped to below minus

1025
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: twenty and his Celsius, Yeah, I think it isn't that

1026
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: roughly where they come together though, Like I don't know,

1027
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: Sophie's nodding, She's a big temperature understand it. Yeah, I'm

1028
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: like that sounds right. I trust you. I understand Celsius

1029
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: between zero and forty outside these extremes, I do not

1030
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: understand selsias anyway. Okay, it's cold as ship's everyone's getting

1031
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,439
Speaker 1: for ust bite, everyone's sucking dying. Yeah, at some point

1032
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: I'll check and have started. He got a leather jacket

1033
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: from somewhere. You can see he does look stylish as

1034
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: fucking some of the pictures. He's got a beret, he's

1035
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: smoking a pipe. Jenny nitted him gloves in a scarf

1036
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: and sent them to him, and she'll cinema box of

1037
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:06,240
Speaker 1: Fannie Farmer chocolates for Christmas apparently. Yeah. Uh. He spent

1038
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: hours trying to maintain their They had maximum guns, which

1039
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: are pretty unreliable, more unreliable when you have fucking fascists

1040
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: pouring sand into them because you're busy posing anarchists, and

1041
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: that the most in the Ganda rifles that we spoke about.

1042
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: He also issued them their rations. Found a list of

1043
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: their rations could interest me. They get a can of

1044
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: Argentine beef, three loaves of bread, one pack of French cigarettes,

1045
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: and a jar of apricot jam that was carried like

1046
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: as a squad. You shared the apricot jam, Yes, pretty

1047
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: cultured stuff. So they and there backup bell Cheat where

1048
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: they see the first ever like a blitz Creek style aqueque.

1049
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: They're basically attacked by like combined tanks, airplanes and infantry right,

1050
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: which is what becomes blitz Creek. But again because like

1051
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: the world isn't paying attention, the world continues to be

1052
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: fucking shocked by this in the and World War, right,

1053
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: so they end up more or less routed by this

1054
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: right that they don't know what. Then the world has

1055
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 1: never seen this before, and at one point two of

1056
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 1: their machine gun crews stranded completely by themselves and end

1057
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: up holding off thousands of soldiers like they're on top

1058
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: of the set of cliffs. So they're just like firing

1059
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: until they run out of ammunition, and then they're all

1060
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: captured and executed. And they don't keep retweet but they

1061
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: keep retreating. But they couldn't retreat faster than the tanks

1062
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 1: and airplanes could move forward to every time they try

1063
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: and set up to defend somewhere, they'd be overwhelmed and

1064
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: they'd have to retreat again. They were being basically had

1065
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: their backs to the sea right that they're being chased

1066
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: towards the ocean, and as this is all happening, they

1067
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 1: start to receive the news that Hitter's invaded Austria and

1068
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: the world still hasn't done anything. So it's got to

1069
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: have felt like a pretty pretty hopeless time. I've got

1070
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: a clip here from Tom Page describing what that felt like.

1071
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: This Tom Page, So Tom Page, sorry, it's it's another

1072
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: of it's another link. A brigade volunteer. He's interviewed for

1073
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: this film called The Good Fight, which is a fantastic film.

1074
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: It's on it's on YouTube for free. I want to

1075
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 1: play a little bit from him explaining how that felt.

1076
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 1: I know, people that want to win slept under a

1077
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: little bit of scraw no blanket over you, but you're know, no,

1078
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: when we're in a pair of overalls. It's cold in Spain.

1079
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: It is very cold Spain. But you want to win

1080
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: and you stay. So yeah, So they were cold, right.

1081
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: They didn't have anything to eat, didn't have anyone to sleep,

1082
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: and the nights would get cold in the days. Was

1083
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: to get up to triple digits, right, and every town

1084
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: they got to was captured before they arrived. Finally, the

1085
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: very few of them who survived arrived at this town

1086
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 1: called casp right, and Casper's supposed to organize a defense

1087
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: that I told them that they're not allowed to go

1088
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: back anything. And all of the machine guns that he'd

1089
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: spent forever trying to fix have been abandoned. And they

1090
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: were so sort of people who even abandoned their guns

1091
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: right as an effort to run away. What they started

1092
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: doing was picking up rocks, throwing them over a wall,

1093
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: and shouting grenade the shot putter re enters the chat. Yeah, yeah,

1094
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: this is when the shot better returns. They were hoping

1095
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: that people would like think they were grenades and run away. Yeah.

1096
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: When I was six, I did the two. Yeah, it's

1097
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: kind of sad that that's where they ended up doing.

1098
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: Some of his unit were actually injured and then deliberately

1099
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: run over by an Italian tank. So it really fun.

1100
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: Terrible ship happens at Cassidy and they end up all

1101
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: making a stand at the railway station, right, it's where

1102
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: the end where the last of the mag paps end up.

1103
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: When the railway station was captured, so was out chaken

1104
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: and it's probably shortly after that that he was executed.

1105
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: And so I want to talk a little bit about like,

1106
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: I guess after some of his comrades came back after

1107
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 1: the people who have seen this, the people who he

1108
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: had fought with in Spain came back, they were harassed,

1109
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 1: bully chased out of work. Many of them weren't allowed

1110
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: to fight in the Second World War because they were

1111
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: called premature anti fascist, right, Yeah, that's the best. That's

1112
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: the best, and it's the best example of how the

1113
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: United States is not an anti fascist nation. Yes, no,

1114
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 1: fu can we Yeah? Okay, yes, you're like the segregated

1115
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: army that fought the Second World War was not an

1116
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: anti fascist army, Like it isn't inherently not anti fascist

1117
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: to segregate your military like that, and like, yeah, there

1118
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: are example is actually a black folks who are extremely

1119
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: like tactically astute right there. The Abraham Lincoln Battalion, the

1120
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: American Battalion International Gates was led by a black officer,

1121
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: and they were like there were black people who were

1122
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: taken to like train military officers at Walter Garland was

1123
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 1: one of them, and he was training military officers in

1124
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: like how to oppose this it's creek stuff that he'd seen.

1125
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 1: One of them called him a slur, so he punched

1126
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: the officer and got like then, so then he got

1127
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: booted out of his job, right, like then he can't. Yeah,

1128
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 1: what's because it's more important to be racist than to

1129
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: learn how to stop a blitz creek. Yeah right, Like

1130
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: thousands of people probably die because we lost this knowledge,

1131
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: right because yeah, we have to be definitely short of pricks.

1132
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: I want to play another clip here where we I'm

1133
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: gonna let Bill. Bill Bailey, by the way, is a

1134
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 1: fantastic human being. He he climbed onto the front of

1135
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:35,919
Speaker 1: a German boat that landed in New York, fought off

1136
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: the security guards, and then swipped down the swasticket from

1137
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 1: the front of the boat and tore it apart. Yeah,

1138
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: got the ship kicked into him by NYPD. Well, thousands

1139
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: of people cheered him a fucking course that also, Yeah,

1140
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: the fact is that are going to kick the ship

1141
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: out of you for like, well, you cat. The one

1142
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: thing that we've learned is that proper vious property is

1143
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: also property. I learned that on Twitter is also violence. Sorry,

1144
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and it's the same. It's the same if

1145
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: someone burns down into Boston clinic or tears up as ustic. Yeah. Yeah,

1146
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: so I want to pay a little click from Bill Bailey. Yeah,

1147
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 1: it was well, it was a hard holding a job down.

1148
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: It was very difficult. In my particular case, we had

1149
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: been wiped out of the unions Seagulling Union. We couldn't

1150
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: sail on the ship, we couldn't get Siemens paper, our

1151
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: siemens papers. Uh Coast Guard. They denied us that on

1152
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: the basis that we're read had fought in Spain or

1153
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: something along that line. Every job you went to, no

1154
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: matter way where I wiped at last a week or

1155
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: two weeks the most, and then the FBI would hound

1156
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: you and you'd lose your job. And this went on

1157
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: and on and on and on and on for almost

1158
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 1: a period of ten years, really ten years of the stuff.

1159
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: So the revolutionary must expect all of this type of stuff,

1160
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 1: missing meal, losing a job, being checked out of your house,

1161
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: et cetera. I mean that's the way it is. You know,

1162
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: not always going to be like that. One day we

1163
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: may change everything we all. So for the last thing

1164
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: I wanna want to leave you with, I want to

1165
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 1: play a clip from Jenny Barman Chacken who was out

1166
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: chaking his wife, talking about it why he decided to

1167
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: go explain and how she felt about it. I was proud.

1168
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 1: I thought it was important from the goal. I was scared.

1169
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 1: I was ambivalent. I remember lying awake nights and thinking,

1170
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: is there any possible reason why maybe I could dig

1171
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: up a reason why he shouldn't go, you know, is

1172
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: there something wrong with him physically? Will it be dangerous

1173
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: for him to go? And so a matter of fact,

1174
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: he did have a disc problem in the knee and

1175
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 1: it would slip out and once in a while, you know,

1176
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: he really had would have to bend over and bring

1177
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 1: it back in the line, you know, And I thought

1178
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: to myself he had been a salmon. He went to

1179
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 1: a doctor because that was required of any of the

1180
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: men who were going to Spain. They really had to

1181
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 1: have a clean bill of health. And I remember when

1182
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 1: he came back and said, doctor said, I'm okay, and

1183
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm going. And I remember thinking to myself, I wonder

1184
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 1: if the doctor knows about that meet me, and maybe

1185
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: I ought to go and tell the doctor about that me.

1186
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: And then I thought to myself, you know, if I

1187
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: do this, I won't live with myself and Chick would

1188
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: never forgive me, And so I didn't. So he went

1189
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: and we communicated with each other, and I met him

1190
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: some gloves and I led him a scarf and I

1191
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: sent them to Spain and he got it, and he

1192
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: got a box of Fannie Farmer candy, and we got

1193
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: letters back and forth, and we got some pictures. And

1194
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: when I was to Spain in August, that was a

1195
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 1: month after he went, I saw him, spent some time

1196
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: with him. Uh. And then beginning with January, there was

1197
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 1: no mail, and I used to visit the headquarters, you know,

1198
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: the office of the vets. Was there any information and

1199
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: there was no information, and uh, I was convinced that

1200
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: it couldn't happen to him, you know, I just couldn't

1201
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 1: happen to him. But it did happen, and it was

1202
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 1: a hard time for me, and it was hard time

1203
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: for anybody who lost people in Spain. At the same time,

1204
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,600
Speaker 1: it was always always been a matter of pride, you know,

1205
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 1: we all have to die. And I've always thought that,

1206
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: you know, so you die younger, you die older, If

1207
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: you die for a good reason, then you know, it's

1208
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 1: not that bad. And I have always been able to

1209
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 1: live with that. That's so fucking good. Now she just

1210
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: she nails it. You know, Like it's hard because it's like, yeah,

1211
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: like she wants to stop him from going, but she

1212
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: she knows it's not right, you know, And that's so

1213
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,720
Speaker 1: fucking human both. I don't I don't know that just

1214
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 1: that makes me kind of teary. Yeah, that one of

1215
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: that film makes me so sad because there are all

1216
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 1: these people who are just more or less right about

1217
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: everything and incredibly committed to being right and willing to

1218
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,959
Speaker 1: die or kill for things that it should be universal

1219
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 1: but aren't, and so many of them just end up

1220
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 1: sucking dead. But none of them, none of them ever

1221
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: backed down from me, Like, no, we were right, it

1222
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 1: was right, yeah, and it was all worth it even

1223
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:34,080
Speaker 1: if we didn't win. It's really cool. Has anyone as

1224
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: a tangent, Yeah, has anyone done the work of like

1225
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,679
Speaker 1: because Spain right, like like they tried to have a coup,

1226
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: like we we lost the Spanish Civil War, right, and

1227
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: and Spain became fascist for decades. And but Spain also

1228
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: didn't really get involved too much in World War two

1229
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 1: mm hm. And it's to me, not a historian, it

1230
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 1: seems like those are related that they had to fight

1231
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: like crazy, like if the coup had just one had

1232
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:05,719
Speaker 1: just worked, would Spain have been involved in World War two,

1233
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, on the fascist side, And like, I mean,

1234
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for I'm looking for a version of

1235
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 1: the world where like check sacrifice, like like changes the war.

1236
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's true or not, but

1237
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, Spain was pretty crippled, so they weren't

1238
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 1: able to Also, what they would have given to the

1239
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,640
Speaker 1: fascists would have been less than what it would have

1240
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,320
Speaker 1: cost him to have another front kind of thing, because

1241
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 1: they were by the war. Right, Actually, some of his

1242
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:35,760
Speaker 1: comrades came back and were trained of special forces in

1243
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: the US. And we're supposed to be inserted into Spain

1244
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,479
Speaker 1: as guerrillas in the event that Spain did join the war.

1245
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 1: So in that center of Spain had in the U S,

1246
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't have just acquiesced in Franco's dictatorship for decades right

1247
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: under this sort of fastical anti communism ship. And like

1248
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 1: you can read Peter Peter Carroll's book is really good

1249
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 1: about this, where he talks about like how the the

1250
01:10:57,880 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: volunteers who survived and come back to the United to

1251
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:04,480
Speaker 1: dates spend the next until they die, all of them

1252
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: being like why the fund. Are you not doing anything

1253
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: about Spain? Why are you ignoring Franco's dictatorship? What do

1254
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 1: you think about the refugees? Like it defines nearly all

1255
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: of their lives, right like Alva Bessie, Who's who was

1256
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:19,599
Speaker 1: a very successful screenwriter in Hollywood. It's still campaigning for this,

1257
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: like until until he dies. They almost all that. Yeah,

1258
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 1: it's it's really sad to see like a that it's

1259
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:31,080
Speaker 1: not studied very much and it's largely forgotten and obviously

1260
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: be like the way the world kind of ignores their

1261
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 1: foresight and they're insert into this and like even in

1262
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:42,679
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties right there persecuted like under McCarthyism then

1263
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 1: being like now you guys kind of called this and

1264
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 1: we're sorry that we didn't listen to you. It can

1265
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: never be there wrong. Yeah, it's sad. They Yeah, they

1266
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 1: they're cool and interesting people and encourage folks to read

1267
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 1: more about them. That's about all I have for you that. Yeah,

1268
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 1: people should you should watch The Good Fight. It's free

1269
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: on YouTube. So do sports fight Nazis and let your

1270
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: loved ones take risks. Yeah, those are the lessons. Be cool.

1271
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: If that was like a trathnon you know, or a

1272
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 1: pentathlon check a bagpipe in there, and like you give

1273
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: four sports. See, I just think you should have to

1274
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: do them all at once, you know, like, oh yeah

1275
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 1: I should be mounted, you know women, Yeah, and the

1276
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 1: bagpipes yep, yeah, yeah, wow, that would be strenuous. You know.

1277
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 1: It's not for the faint of heart. No, yeah, yeah,

1278
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be for everyone. Yeah, it just

1279
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: has to be for you. Listen, you know what is

1280
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 1: for everyone? Though? What's that, Sophie you? Oh yeah, yeah,

1281
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 1: you know it's not for everyone. Actually it's my fucking

1282
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 1: book because it costs an obscene amount of money. I've

1283
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,559
Speaker 1: got it written down somewhere here. It's a lot of dollars.

1284
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 1: So libraries are for everyone. I would love it if

1285
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 1: you would go to your library and asked him if

1286
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 1: they could maybe obtain a copy of my book about

1287
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 1: the Popu Olympics, which is called the Popular Front and

1288
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 1: the Barcelona Si Popular Olympics. Yeah, that's my plugable comparing

1289
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 1: and it as a hard to follow. That's the name

1290
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 1: of your book. And then then but I don't a

1291
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 1: bit his Escape from Insull Island. It's a similar vibe.

1292
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: It's a yeah in a way. Sure. Yeah, if the

1293
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:41,559
Speaker 1: insults have been in Spain, we all know what fucking

1294
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: team they'd have been. On the other day, I was

1295
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,400
Speaker 1: on the phone with James, and James literally says to

1296
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: me on the phone, were actually and I was doing

1297
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: a voice it was that. And that's my version of

1298
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 1: in a way And and and technically people can still

1299
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 1: pre order or if you're this is the future, order

1300
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 1: order the order your book. Yeah, you can either pre

1301
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: order or regular order it. Um. If it's pre order,

1302
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:16,719
Speaker 1: you gotta get it on Tangled Wilderness dot work, which

1303
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 1: means if you're listening to this when it came out,

1304
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: you probably got to get it there. But if not,

1305
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:24,840
Speaker 1: you can get it wherever books are sold. Probably. That's

1306
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 1: the fun thing about like small presses that work with

1307
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: major distributors is that it is available wherever books are sold.

1308
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean anyone will necessarily have it, So

1309
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 1: you can also go to a library. Um, because actually

1310
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,000
Speaker 1: small press books are really expensive. Right now. It's a

1311
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: very short book. You can read it in an afternoon,

1312
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,719
Speaker 1: but it is a twenty dollar book because the fucking

1313
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,080
Speaker 1: economics and inflation and blah blah blah blah blah, that

1314
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:49,759
Speaker 1: is totally what you all, okay, checked into this podcast

1315
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 1: to hear me talk about. Is the economic book publishing. Yeah,

1316
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: maybe if there's a coup and a subsequent revolution, you

1317
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: could get Margaret's book for free. That's it's true. You

1318
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 1: can also probably come up with the way my book

1319
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 1: for free, especially if certain places carry it. But you

1320
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: know whatever, um use your imagination, yea libraries. Cool People

1321
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1322
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on cool zone Media, visit our website

1323
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on

1324
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1325
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:30,080
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.