WEBVTT - Steve Schnur 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.440 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:17.560 My guest today is Steve Schnur. Steve, what exactly is 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.520 your title of electronic arts? I think the last time 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:25.440 we spoke you were laughing, commenting, joking with me about 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.000 how long it was at the time. So I'm frankly 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.200 partially because of that conversation years ago. It's some sat 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:37.960 Bislas event. I shortened it to president of music. There 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.440 was a lot of word their global Jedi sort of thing, 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.720 but president of music and what do you do as 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.560 president of music? Uh? Well, I I say that every 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.559 I'm responsible ultimately for every single note that goes in 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.720 every single game, every single trailer, every artist that shows 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:01.040 up at every single event. Anybody who's you knowsociated with music, 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.080 whether it's Snoop showing up at the launch of a 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:08.040 battlefield event or whether it's them you know, a hundred 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.479 songs that go in a FIFA. UM, I'm responsible ultimately 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:16.000 for for all of it. I UM. I think over 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.520 the years, UM, we used to sort of look at, 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.320 you know, how do we how do we represent culture? 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.280 And I think what we've tried to do now is actually, 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.800 um become culture. You know, to the point where these 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.880 playlists and these um pieces of music we put in 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:36.479 all of these franchises are so meaningful to people now. Um, 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.039 going back the last ten twenty years, so long winded 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.399 way to say, I guess I'm in charge of all 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:46.479 of that. And why do you live in Nashville. I'm 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.680 glad we have some time here. Listen. I lived in 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.320 Nashville in the nineties, all of my friends. In nine 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.400 five when I worked for Clive uh when I told 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:58.560 him I was thinking about coming down here and running 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.200 a record label for Tim Dubon Mike Dungan, which was 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.840 a blessing. But who knew at the time. Um, they 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.840 said I was crazy. Um they don't let Jews in Nashville. 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.480 Oh my god, you're gonna be you know, ha ha 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.680 ha Uh. It was the most amazing time of my 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.160 life working for those guys back then. Uh. So when 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.079 I moved to l A, initially to work at Capital, 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:28.280 but then for years to work um eddie A. You know, 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.640 I always figured how do I get back? Um, it 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:36.400 just seems like a more normal place to me. It's 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.720 also closer for me to get home to New York. 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.400 I like that. I like that I'm centrally located. The 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:47.040 answer to your question is that, UM, I tried knowing 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:52.600 that games. Uh. We were always told way back when 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:54.800 that we were bigger than the film industry and the 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.920 music industry combined. But when I started, we still sounded 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:03.080 like the toy industry. And even though there's nostalgia in 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:07.560 the Mario Brothers and pac Man, UM, I needed to 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:12.400 find a solution so we could record live with real orchestras. 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.519 If I'm gonna hire Hans Zimmer and I'm gonna hire 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.960 a hilder off of an Oscar Win, you know I 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:22.119 have provided them with some great orchestrash. We had a fallout, 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.239 you know, we had a fallout, not just e A, 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:28.000 the entire non signatory industry had a fallout with the 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.960 A f M UM. We were able to record for 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:35.920 years in UM in Los Angeles and a non signatory 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:41.600 single performance Agreement UM. And when the new guys came 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:45.600 in to run it, I warned them kindly that they 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:49.560 were gonna lose not just the entire game industry, but 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.800 they were gonna learn lose the independent film industry. They 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:56.960 were gonna lose you know what what you know inevitably 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.520 came the TV business, you know, Netflix, Amazon, none of 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.800 these modern media companies, We're going to become union signatories. 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:06.920 And they were gonna lose all of this business to 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:11.000 Eastern Europe. That's where everybody was gonna go to prag Bratoslava, 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:15.560 you know, etcetera. Um, And so it happened. And I 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.599 was the one knowing this town pretty well from living 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.640 here in the nineties that said, let's go see if 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.320 we can cut a trailer in Nashville. I know the 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.000 steel players, I know the drummers, I know the guitar players. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.560 Not sure if I know the cellist, but let's try it. 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:34.920 But guess what, um, mind blowing, mind blowing horn sections 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.400 as you can only imagine, think of all the great 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.560 horn horne arranged, horn arrangements. They came out of here 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.440 for years and years and years, and I ended up 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:48.280 recording a score to a game called Dragon Age Inquisition here. 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.960 I had a very loud mouth among the composer community 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.600 in Los Angeles, from Hans to John Debney, you name, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.800 and it it goes on and on and on and next 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.760 thing you know, people were coming year to record and 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.479 their minds were blown. So I think Nashville has become 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.560 easily the top one of the top two greatest places 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:15.159 to record orchestra for film television in games, London being 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:19.120 the other. Uh. And I think the stages sadly in 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.920 Los Angeles have emptied the musicians, so many of them 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.599 are out of work, a lot of them are moving here, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.559 and so rather than commute back and forth, I figured 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.359 it would make sense for me to plant my butt 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.200 here in Nashville and to help further and build the 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:42.800 community um of you know, great orchestral recording for media. Um. Now, 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.040 I've spoken to the guy who's the chairman of the 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.120 tourism board and told him, the next time you're you 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.479 have that tour bus driving down Music Row and you 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.080 tell the blue haired ladies that this is the studio 0:05:56.200 --> 0:06:00.520 where Johnny Cash and Elvis recorded. Two blocks down is 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.200 the studio where Call of Duty and Fortnite was recorded. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:04.640 Every kid's going to freak out and want to go 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:06.919 with our moms and those tours. Now, so we've built 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.040 one hell of a community down here, um. And that's 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.039 why I live here now. And you know, it's a 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:14.440 commute to l A, but it's no big deal. And Frankly, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:17.040 half the time, my flight is shorter than half the 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:18.560 people that work for me and have to drive from 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.640 Eagle Rock to Marina del Rey. Okay, just going sideways 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.640 for a second. Your father was recently ill. If you're 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:30.920 from the East Coast, how's your father being treated in Irvine? Well, 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.480 my dad saw the light of California twenty years ago 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:38.480 and moved to uh Orange County. Um, proclaiming he had 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.600 wished we had he had moved us out there, uh 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:45.440 when when we were kids. But I'm a Jersey slash 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:49.960 New York City divorce bratt and you know this, Bob, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.360 you can't take that out of us. We are who 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.480 we are. We just bring New York with us to California. UM. So, 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:58.400 my dad's been living out there for twenty years. I 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:00.960 do think it's the greatest thing he could have done 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.599 for himself. Um. Who wants to be, you know, in 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.039 their nineties, little one, even in their seventies and shoveling snow. 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.720 I think you've written about this quite a lot. You know, 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.080 he was a Vermont drive to Vermont, go skiing, come 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.160 back to Jersey, go to work, and finally twenty years ago, 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.960 he's like I'm done. He didn't do the Florida route. 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.360 He did the California route. Okay, I gotta go here 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.120 because I tell this story all the time. Do you 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:31.800 still have your condo in Mammoth? No? I mean this 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:36.800 is fin finance mistake one oh one. When the recession hit, Okay, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.760 the thing went severely underwater, and I did a panic 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.800 and I sold it and I called the financial guy 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.480 at Mary Lynch and I said, I'm about to, you know, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.440 do one of those the bank wants you? Am? I 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.960 actually gonna sell it for way under the mortgage? And 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.440 what does that do to my credit? And they said, 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.240 just get out, get out, get out. It'll take you 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.440 fifteen twenty years to get back to where you bought it. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.280 So I sold it now. I got divorced, so I 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.880 would have lost it anyway, So what the hell? Okay, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:12.520 but the story that I tell is you were renting 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.800 it out and what ultimately happened with the Golden Platinum Records. 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:21.160 Why don't you tell us? You remember this? It's fantastic. 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.880 So I had this idea, you know that if I 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:25.520 rented it out, you know, how am I going to 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.160 compete in that Mammoth marketplace. First of all, you're hiring 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.360 a property manager at a fifty fifty split, which is 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:36.559 absolutely the stupidest thing imaginable, but that's the way it's done. 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.120 So I remember taking all of these golden platinum records, 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.400 putting them up on the wall. We had a view 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.439 from the living room of Mammoth Rocks. So I said, okay, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.200 well let's call it, you know, Mammoth whatever it was, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.520 Mammoth Rock dot com or whatever. I thought I was 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:53.720 so smart to get at the time, but I really 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.680 was a little you know, being an East Coaster, I 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:57.920 was cynical about it from day one. So I figured, 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.760 how do I get these platinum records on the wall 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.520 without somebody just lifting them off? So I had them 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:05.960 mounted to the wall like they used to do with 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.440 the hard rock in Las Vegas. You know, they're mounted 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.440 from behind. It would take a superman to rip it 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.160 off the wall. Only to come up there one time 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.680 and found out there were holes in the wall. Somebody 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.520 had rented my place, shown up with a crowbar and 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.079 just basically ripped them out. And so when I went 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.439 to the property manager, remember fifty fifty split, you think 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.880 they do more? Um, I told them, and they said, well, 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:31.640 we've had three people in there, so we don't know 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.760 who to go to. So sorry. So yeah, that was 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:40.640 my uh hard earned lesson in not really renting things 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.000 out on a weekly basis and having high expectations when 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:47.840 it comes to maintaining. UM, you know it was. It 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.640 was a high quality place. But it is what it is. 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.680 I lost a blink quantity to um Platinum Record and 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.880 a couple others, but you know what it is, what 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.720 it is. I kind of don't listen to blink anyway anymore. Anyway, 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:03.960 how many did you lose all in total? It had 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:05.679 to be five or six that they were. There were 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.680 five or six holes in the wall, good gigantic you know, 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:13.200 six inch circumference holes in the wall. This person literally 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.200 went out of their way to getting it. I don't 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.400 know why I looked on eBay. Uh they never showed up. 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.840 So okay, let's go back something you said earlier. Explain 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:28.520 the A f M union situation. Well, listen, I'm a 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:34.960 union person, ironically, and I believe there's a purpose, particularly 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.480 for the pension paying into the pension when you use 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:43.520 union musicians. Um, but I do believe, uh, and I'm 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.120 not running for office here to run the union. But 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.439 I do believe that the union works through the musicians 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.320 and not the other way around. And if you go 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.160 back to the history of the particularly the a f 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:57.560 M to the forties, I think the guy who ran 0:10:57.720 --> 0:10:59.680 back then was a guy named Fiarello. I could be 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:04.280 his name, and Um, you know, we could look back 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:08.080 and think of him as a tough s ob who 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:12.240 got shipped done. But the truth is he was abusive 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:17.000 and he was um. He got in the way of progress. 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.960 He was so upset as far as I know, and 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:25.880 I've learned with musicians being replied, musicians being replaced on 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:30.600 radio by recorded music, that he went out of his 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:35.319 way to shut it down. He did not accept technology 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.959 and or technology has brought us as a music industry 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.280 for the last hundred years. We have to ride the 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:46.440 technology wave, not try to shut it down. Otherwise, I e. Napster, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.960 We're just wasting years where we could be a part 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.320 of it. UM. And I think, you know, I think 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:57.160 the current union UM is in the same situation. Um. 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.240 You can come to Nashville and do union recordings. The 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.280 only difference is that Nashville is a right to work state. 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.160 So the union members can't be sued for making their 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:11.480 own decision on whether they want to work on a 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.600 project or not. By the way, when I put out 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.800 the call two musicians, the greatest musicians in town, no 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:22.720 one's ever said no. But they have a choice. So, UM, 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:29.559 I hope you know union members musicians understand that. UM, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.600 many of us, most of us who work for you know, 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:38.400 companies that aren't signatories to the union. And that's most companies. Now. Remember, 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.280 the people that are really still signatories are the ones 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.400 that signed it back in the Charlie Chaplain era, Warner Brothers, Disney, 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.520 Paramount and this goes back lord knows how long. But 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.640 a lot of Netflix, the majority of their projects are 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.240 non union projects. So why not try to get the 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:59.040 business here in the US rather than lose the business 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.280 to Eastern Europe? Why not try to figure out ways 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.280 to work with companies? UM, And I think Nashville has 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.679 become an incredible solution. I mean, you know, Spike Lee 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.720 does you know records uh music for his movies here 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.840 with you know, and and and the list goes on 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.920 and on. I mean Lost in Space on Netflix was 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.400 all all that score was recorded here, And like I said, 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.560 so many games, Um, not my games, even some of 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.800 them call a Duty and Fortnite and others. So it's 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.400 become a high quality solution. And there's not a day, 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.840 Bob that I don't go out to lunch or dinner 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.760 here when somebody who plays cello or a tuba or 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:41.760 whatever the case may be comes up to me because 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.000 it's Nashville, still a small town and says thank you, 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.800 thank you for letting us work six days a week, 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.480 you know, And UM, I'm not doing it for that. 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.960 I make no money from that. I don't know in 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.800 the studios, I have no personal financial incentive. I just 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.440 know that we, you know, in the modern media business 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.040 needs solutions to have high quality recordings with the best 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.640 musicians of the world and not be driven out and 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.079 forced to go to places like Prague and and uh 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.360 you know other places in Eastern Europe where there's problems. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:20.360 You have to edit the hell out of those. Um recordings. Um, 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.320 the musicianship is good, but it's not mind blowing at times. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.240 Most of the time. UM, I'll tell you a funny story. 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.440 My friend John Julihan, I don't know if you know him. Um, 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.960 he was here doing the film that they did about 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.880 a year or two ago on Tammy Faye Baker. Um, 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:39.880 and uh, he asked me to help put together a 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.880 horn section because guess what it was, um, a non 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.320 union film, you know. Um and uh I got to 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.880 I put together a horn section for him. And he 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.120 came down and Dave Cobb, who I think you know, um, 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.080 was recording it producing it. And John looked at me 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.800 and said, oh my god, I can't believe these horns. 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:03.520 I'm they're playing this, these these parts just like that's 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.040 just like the original records. And then one of the 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.160 trumpet players said, and that's because we were the guys 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:13.600 that actually played on that record. So listen, you've got 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.800 a swinging brass section here that's incredible. You have string 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.680 sections that are as good as London, which is a tall, 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.160 tall order. And uh. The only thing we're short of 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:30.120 here in town is a magnificent stage the size of 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.920 Abbey Road one. We can put about seventy five on 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.280 the floor at Ocean Way, you know. So for me 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:40.040 where I do Star Wars and I need a hundred 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.160 plus people on the stage, I go to London for 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.280 those things. But we've come up with a solution for 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:51.960 three industries. And you know I said from day one, 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.120 I always wanted to pay into the pension, you know, 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.840 for the union. I believe in it as long as 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:02.360 they handled the pension correctly. Um. But um, my home, 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.600 my thing is that I just don't want them hurting 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.920 the musicians. I don't want them suing the musicians. And 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.920 this is a place where musicians work. They work six 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.160 seven days a week doing what they do. They don't 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.560 have to work at Jerry's Deli or any place like 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.480 that to make it. You know, they have a lot 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.600 of work here now in film and TV and games. Okay, 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.040 let's just assume, for the sake of discussion, you were 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.240 a signatory and you did cut in l A. What 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:34.400 would be the difference to you. Yeah, that's a great question. Um, well, 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.480 I'll tell you what it's not. It's not a matter 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.640 of cost, because people think this is a cost solution, 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.680 which it's not. You know, listen, there's a set rate here, 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.400 set right there. Um. If I were a signatory and 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.160 I cut there, Um, I would have some of the 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.120 greatest stages in the planet, the barber strikes and stage 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.080 you know this, and that I would have some of 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.960 the greatest musicians in the planet. Um and the different 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.920 says now sadly, thanks to the Union, I would have 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.160 a lot of dates at these stages to choose from 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.720 because they're empty a lot of days of the month. 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.400 Abbey Road is sold out two years already now in advance. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.960 You can't even get in there until uh Nashville's about 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.600 six months eight months. Um, So why is that happening? 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.600 Why are there empty stages there when it's not a 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:28.960 matter of cost, you know? Um? So, we did amazing 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.040 scores in Los Angeles. Michael Jaquino did our Medal of 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.919 Honor scores back way back when we did lots of 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.800 SIMS scores back then with Mark mothers Bow and Steve Jablonsky. 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.679 I'm really proud of those scores. The quality is incredible. 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.600 But unfortunately we're driven out. When I say we, I 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.440 mean an industry was driven out. So you gotta you 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:51.600 gotta come. If it's not the cost, what is the 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:57.600 burden of the union production? I see what you're saying. 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.919 You're asking me. Why are you asking me why modern 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.600 media companies are in signatories to the union. Yeah, let's 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.120 go there, I think, yeah, um, and I usually don't 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.080 go there, but I know you, so I'm gonna go here. Um, listen, 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.800 there's back end, and you know there's back end for musicians, 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:21.760 and most companies Amazon, Netflix, Activision, the list goes on. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.600 You know. UM, they're different, they're set up differently than 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:30.119 the old traditional major movie studios. UM, there's no back end. 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.159 But there's also not back end, by the way, for 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:36.119 the executive producer or the director or the other people 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.240 that have worked on a UM project like a game 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:44.680 for three years. And so it's pretty hard to justify 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.480 not giving an executive producer who's worked on a game 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.800 for three years and then giving back end to a 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.880 violinist who worked on a game for three hours. That's 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.520 kind of an equation that doesn't work out very well. 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.679 So that's it. It comes down to back end. And 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.119 that's why most companies now, like I said, Netflix and 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.960 others are not signators. So how did you get your 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.159 gig dy a And what was the status of the 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.400 music department? Then there wasn't a music department. There wasn't 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.119 a music department in any game company. I was working 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.760 at Capitol Records. UM. I had left at Nashville to 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.320 move to capital be one of the guys that ran 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:30.840 and r um roy Lot left. As you'll recall, Andy 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.720 Slater came in. Um. It was a miserable environment, to 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:41.080 be honest with you. Um and Uh. Fortunately, at the 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.119 same time as I was a capital UM, I was 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.440 also music supervising films, particularly Sandra Bullock films. I had 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.040 done the music supervision for a smaller film called Gunshot, 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:55.000 but then a much bigger film called Miss Congeniality. I 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.639 also was able to write cues on that, which I 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.680 always joke when I get might BM, I check every 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.080 single year. Uh we can go to Nobu once, but 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.920 that's about what it can afford. Um and uh there's 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:11.159 your back end story by the way. Um. But um 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.480 and then I so I had I didn't realize that 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.280 I had this experience, for lack of better term, in 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.040 music and music supervision. I sort of took it for granted. 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.200 I got a call from Terry McBride because I had 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:29.359 worked with Sarah McLaughlin in the nineties when she I 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.439 think we struggled to put fifty people at Cafe Shane 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.000 I think it was called in New York. It was 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.639 Marty Diamond. Uh. Terry McBride and I. We're trying to 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:41.800 figure out what is it gonna take to have her 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.639 play Radio City Music Hall in a year? How do 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.199 we get from fifty to whatever that number is. So 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.320 I had a history there. Terry was, um, you know 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:55.440 lives up to the you know, don't ever burn bridges 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:59.240 because my bridge was so solid between network and myself 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.040 and we all loved each other so much and then 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.399 gone through thick and thin together that he happened to 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.280 be friends with the then president of e A. It's 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:11.040 a Vancouver thing and um, Terry called me and said, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.280 you're going to get a call from a guy named 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.960 Rusty Roof. I'm like, come on, who makes that name 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.119 up as the radio guy? And he goes, yeah, he 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.360 actually used to be a radio guy. Um, but he's 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.560 the head of hr at e A. Uh. And I 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.800 was telling them that they should start a music department 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.320 like a film studio. I was so in love with 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.280 music supervision, especially for Fordace Film which was Forda Films, 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.919 which was Sandy Bullock's company, that my dreams had changed. 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.520 I wanted to be the head of a studio, paramount universal, 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.640 head of music in a studio. Um, so my initial 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:48.360 commented Terry was games. Anybody your mind? Like I pretended 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.040 to play a few of those. You know when I 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.240 was trying to sign a band back in the nineties, 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.040 What do I, he said, take the meeting. I don't 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:58.600 even think twice. Just take the meeting. So I flew 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.679 up to Vancouver and um met with Don and Rusty 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:07.480 roof Um, who were spectacular guys. But here was the difference. 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:09.440 And I think I told you the story years ago. 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:12.679 I was working in the record business in two thousand 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:17.200 and one. Napster was right there. It was in the headlight, 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.880 and it felt you felt fear and of the unknown 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:24.320 in the record business, even though people stay oh and 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.760 sync it was selling Millie who cares? We saw fear 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.159 right there in front of us. UM and I walked 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:32.440 into those buildings A d A and it was like 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:35.480 I was back in MTV in the eighties. There were 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.199 kids everywhere. It was loud, people were playing games, there 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.160 was creativity. And I remember calling my now ex wife 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.160 at the time and saying, if they offered me this job, 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.120 I'm taking it. And she said, whoa wa wa, wait 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:49.239 a send, what are you talking about? I said, I 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.879 haven't felt this energy in so many years. Okay, the 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:54.800 record business had it for a moment, but it's not 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.240 there right now. And she said, are you gonna take 0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:59.960 a job based on energy and a building? And I said, 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:04.040 actually think so. Something's going on here. So I met 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.800 with Don President and he said what I said to him? 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.879 What's your vision? And he said, the greatest thing you 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.359 could ever hear to an entrepreneurial guy like myself. He says, 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:18.480 I don't know. He said, we toyed with Robbie Williams 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:21.399 in a FIFA game, we toyed with bar naked ladies 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.520 in an NHL game. We got some press. We think 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:28.160 there's something there. What do you think? And I said, well, 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:32.560 I think you guys are spending too much time trying 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.320 to sound like sports, and I think eventually sports need 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:37.960 to start sounding like us. I think we need to 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.200 be what I'll call the new MTV. At the time, 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:45.840 people labels are spending millions upon gazillions to to pay 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:49.480 for promotion, to get to to get records on the radio. 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:53.240 Remember this is before Spotify, before this UM. But the 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.480 audience is gaming. People that are twelve and seven and 0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:59.080 in seventeen, they're in games. We have the real estate, 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:01.280 so let's bring music to where they are. Let's change 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:04.520 the sound of sports. Let's change the sound of games. 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:06.719 So if we have a game called Madden two thousand 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:08.960 and four, let's make it sound like two thousand and five. 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:12.040 Why are we still playing a C D C and Queen? 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:14.679 Where are the champions? And why God's name would you 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.160 ever license Gary Glitter? Haven't you've heard that story yet? 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:23.920 So they so they said okay, And um, I said, also, 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.040 you still send sound like the toy business. So I'd 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:28.680 like to go out there and hire. At the time, 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:31.840 the first guy hired was a guy named Michael Jaquino. Um, 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:36.040 this is pre Pixar, pre Lost on ABC. Let's hire 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:40.040 some of the next greatest generation of composers because we 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.359 have such an advantage in this medium we have. If 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:46.680 you if you're if you're writing a score to a film, 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:48.960 you know there's Tom Cruise and oh yeah, he's doing that, 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:52.000 and he's running and he's doing Okay, let's find the 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:56.000 emotion and present what Tom is feeling. But in a game, 0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:00.679 you've got millions of people on their couches and you 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.040 need to create the emotion that each and every one 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:06.439 of them is feeling. And I bet you once I 0:25:06.520 --> 0:25:10.520 present that to the next great generation of composers, when 0:25:10.600 --> 0:25:13.920 I untether them to picture, when they become a part 0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:19.359 of the story itself, they're going to freak out. And UM. 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:21.320 So that's how it started. So it was really an 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:26.280 entrepreneurial beginning because I started just me and UH. Within 0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:29.840 a year, I had two people working for me. UM. 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:31.920 I believe we're still all together, by the way, even 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:36.960 though we're many more people now. UM, and I'm I'm humble, 0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:39.119 but I'm also smart enough to know that if you 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:41.520 surround yourself with people that are better than you and 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:46.359 have impeccable taste in music and wonderful ideas, that you know, 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:50.359 the tide rises all boats. As the cliche you know says, 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:54.800 So UM, we just started instead of putting a C. 0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:57.720 D C and queen into football games and soccer games. 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:00.879 You know, I went all around the world for my 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:03.600 first year, and I went to every I went top down, 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:08.920 every CEO, every president of every label, and every publishing company, 0:26:09.119 --> 0:26:12.400 every artist I can get in a room with. UM. 0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:15.200 I met with Steve Berman and Jimmy back then. They 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.040 got it from the first second I presented it to them. 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:20.840 Jason Flam got it from the first second I presented 0:26:20.840 --> 0:26:24.880 it to them. Craig Calman got it from the first second. Julie, 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:27.119 you know then at def Jam got it from the 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:30.919 first second. A few didn't. Um and we started putting 0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:33.000 bands in these games, and next thing, you know, bands 0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:35.719 like a Sabian and Kings a Leon. None of these 0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:38.600 bands had sinks, nobody knew who they were, and all 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:43.000 of a sudden they started kind of gaining attention. To listen. 0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:45.480 Fast forward even ten years whatever the number is. Later, 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:50.560 um uh thirty seconds to Mars. I I put Jared 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:53.479 Leto's band in UM Madden I think it was at 0:26:53.520 --> 0:26:57.359 the time, and um Kevin Weatherly called me and he said, 0:26:57.560 --> 0:26:59.879 did you guys put a band called thirty seconds to 0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:03.960 ours in UM Madden or something? And I said we did. 0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:07.320 I said why? He said, because it's testing like familiar 0:27:07.359 --> 0:27:10.479 and we haven't played it yet. So I knew we 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:12.320 were on to something and I wasn't looking to be 0:27:12.600 --> 0:27:16.760 the hero I wanted. I knew that we could be 0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:20.640 ground zero to launch bands, that that's very MTV esque. 0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:22.960 We could be ground zero and we could affect. But 0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:25.520 I knew. The winning point of doing all of that 0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:29.040 was when somebody here's a band. Now, when people here 0:27:29.840 --> 0:27:31.919 Kasabian or they hear whatever the list is. We can 0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:36.040 go through hundreds of bands. They remember FIFA nostalgically from 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:38.840 two thousand seven or two thousand three. That's where the winning, 0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:42.840 That's where the win was. You know, to be forever 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.480 associated with that moment. You and I have those moments 0:27:45.520 --> 0:27:47.960 when it comes to MTV. You know, you think of 0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:49.840 a cure, you think a flock of seagulls. Oh, those 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:52.680 are MTV moments. I thought we could, we could create 0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:56.119 FIFA moments or maddened moments, and that has proven to 0:27:56.160 --> 0:28:00.080 be true. So um, the people that got it a 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:04.680 hundred percent were the artists. Every artist from day one. 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:07.719 I remember sitting going, remember this is two thousand and two, 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:12.520 Snoop Bust, Jermaine Duprie, all these people that you think 0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:16.119 about what it was twenty years ago. We gotta get in. 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:17.840 What do we need to do to get in? Madden? 0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:22.040 You know, they had a front row seat to their 0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:25.360 fans every night. They knew that their fans played games. 0:28:25.720 --> 0:28:29.000 They knew that they and their bands played games. So 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.480 that was very important real estate to all artists back 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:35.879 then still is by the way, So that's kind of 0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:38.520 where it all started. It was an idea, it was 0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:44.680 an entrepreneurial idea, it was a vision. Um and um. 0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:49.000 You know, I don't believe in repeating. I'm I'm absolutely 0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:51.080 against anything that's cut and pace who Every year we 0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:53.840 just have to rip it up and reinvent, do better, 0:28:53.920 --> 0:28:58.320 do bigger, do more, um and UM. I think now 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:01.160 I look, you know, in the last year, and I'm 0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:04.560 very proud when I see Travis Scott doing a show 0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:08.120 in Fortnite, you know, pre the Houston thing. But you know, 0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:10.280 I'm very proud of when I see these huge moments, 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:14.600 you know, or Spotify having Spotify Island on the roadblocks. 0:29:14.640 --> 0:29:19.040 These are all amazing things. Um. But it's all because 0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:23.080 of the years, you know, uh, the evolution of it all, 0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:27.880 you know, having Kings of Leon and started Madden too, 0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:30.960 sorry FIFA two thousand and two or three, whatever the 0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:34.880 year was. Um. Then came guitar hero, then came rock 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:37.160 band and if you look at it that way, you 0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:40.440 can see where how the evolution you know, occurred of 0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:43.320 it all. And now everybody's paying attention. But we kind 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:46.560 of knew it all along. Okay, you say you were 0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:51.040 going to Vancouver. I think, uh, Electronic Guards started in 0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:55.880 northern California. Where is the company now? Yeah, well it's 0:29:55.920 --> 0:30:00.760 a good story. Um. So they had the president of Studios, 0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:03.600 Don Mattrick, who I mentioned before, lived and was based 0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:07.320 out of Vancouver because the e A had bought his company. 0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:10.440 I think it was called Dynamic Software something like five 0:30:10.520 --> 0:30:13.160 or ten years before I met him. So the head 0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:16.160 of studios was based at A Vancouver, but e A 0:30:16.480 --> 0:30:20.040 has always been based in northern California. So I I 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:25.640 sold my house in l A, moved to Vancouver, moved 0:30:25.640 --> 0:30:28.560 in December. I do not recommend moving to Vancouver in 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:31.680 December because for three or four months, uh, you don't 0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:35.760 see the sun. It's freezing. And don't get me wrong, 0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:38.080 I love Vancouver and I'm friends with lots of people 0:30:38.080 --> 0:30:39.800 that live there, but they all say, oh, but you 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:41.680 should see this place in July. I don't want to 0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:43.960 be in a place eleven months a year for one 0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:47.920 month's sick. Um. But um, you know it was Larry 0:30:47.960 --> 0:30:51.240 Probes who was the CEO of e A then who 0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:54.480 um he was my Grammy date that year in two 0:30:54.520 --> 0:30:58.160 thousand and two. Uh, And he said, who the hell 0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:01.280 hired our head of music? It can put them in Vancouver. 0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:04.160 And I didn't want to throw our then president under 0:31:04.200 --> 0:31:06.880 the bus, so I started a him and haunt. He said, 0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:09.440 I get it, I get it done. Hired you Uh uh, 0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:11.680 We're in northern Cali. You should where should you be based? 0:31:12.400 --> 0:31:13.880 And I had that one moment where I could have 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:15.840 said anywhere by the way, I could have said Aspen. 0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:18.800 I know that would have made you happy. Um. And 0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:21.400 I said, I don't know whether I want to say 0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:23.360 this out loud, but you probably should have never moved 0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:25.920 me out of l A. You know. So he says, 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:27.320 moved back to l A. And I said, oh, I 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:28.880 wish you would have told me that before I sold 0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:33.520 my house. You know, I'm all in um. Anyway, that 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:36.120 was a crazy year, but I ended up spending only 0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:38.760 three four months in Vancouver and then moving to l 0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:40.600 A until I moved here to Nashville. And I still 0:31:40.640 --> 0:31:43.959 somewhat commute. Up until the pandemic, I was doing every 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:46.600 single week back and forth Nashville l A UM and 0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:49.040 the pandemic gave me the opportunity to slow that down 0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:52.680 a little. Bit, but uh so we still have massive studios, 0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:57.560 really beautiful, impressive studios in Vancouver, where UFC has created, 0:31:57.560 --> 0:32:01.560 where FIFA is created. I mean, it's it's unbelievable, but 0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:04.280 we are in northern California based company. Well, it used 0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:07.080 to be the only direct flight from Nashville was an 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:11.280 American and then Southwest went in. So which one do 0:32:11.280 --> 0:32:17.040 you fly? Well? I fly Southwest because they have the nonstops. 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:21.600 American only has one poorly timed NonStop unless you want 0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:22.960 to go on a red eye, which I do not. 0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:27.680 So um. I literally just got off the Southwest flight 0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:31.719 from l a X this morning seven am. Um, so 0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:34.720 I do that. And uh. Up until the pandemic, the 0:32:34.720 --> 0:32:38.560 advantage of flying Southwest was that a list companion pass, 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:42.080 which was brilliant. But the pandemic obviously none of us 0:32:42.120 --> 0:32:45.720 traveled so much. So that's gone now. So ironically that 0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:47.760 you it's ironic. You asked me that because as we 0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:51.000 flew in today and I was squished, you know, like 0:32:50.760 --> 0:32:54.480 a like a you know, like a sandwich, like a 0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:57.880 Deli sandwich in between people on Southwest. I said, you 0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:00.360 know what, once I don't get my status again at 0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:02.280 the end of this year, even if I have to 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:06.400 change planes in Dallas, I'm going on American from now. 0:33:08.200 --> 0:33:10.760 It was really good for a while. I don't know 0:33:10.800 --> 0:33:13.640 why you think everybody would have multiple flights here nonstops 0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:15.640 all day long, because I don't know the last time 0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:17.720 you were in Nashville. But this is Las Vegas, for 0:33:17.800 --> 0:33:20.240 God's sake. It's out of control, you know, even though 0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:22.360 most of us that live here don't ever go down there. 0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:25.280 But why wouldn't you have five nonstops today? I don't 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:35.080 get it. Okay, So what was the status of the 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:38.400 gaming business then when you took the gig in twenty 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:42.960 two two? Has opposed it today? And where does e 0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:47.000 A fit in the hierarchy of gaming companies? Yeah, that's 0:33:47.040 --> 0:33:52.120 a great question. I think back in two thousand and two, 0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:59.280 gaming was massive, but gaming was thought of pretty much 0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:04.400 as a chldren's activity by those of us in mainstream media. 0:34:04.640 --> 0:34:09.160 I don't think we knew then the impact that gaming 0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:13.120 had or could have, or would have had or has had. 0:34:14.400 --> 0:34:19.000 I think we were making great games, sticky games. There 0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:22.000 were people that were obsessed with it, but they looked 0:34:22.120 --> 0:34:26.319 particularly comparative to what you see now. They looked like 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:29.520 you know animated, they weren't as real life as they 0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:32.360 are now. They were limited in what they could contain. 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:36.520 It was a single player world, not a multiplayer world. 0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:39.680 That's a key difference what I just said. You went 0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:42.799 to the store, you bought a disk, you stuck it 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:45.880 in your Xbox or your PlayStation two or whatever it 0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:48.360 was at the time, and you had a single a 0:34:48.400 --> 0:34:52.680 single player experience, and the and the community of that 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:54.880 experience was when you had your buddies come over and 0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:56.319 sit next to you on the couch and you had 0:34:56.400 --> 0:35:02.760 two controllers that looks like a teen fifty. Now now 0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:08.319 you have a multiplayer environment completely online. You're playing with 0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:14.520 people all over the world you'll never physically meet. Um. 0:35:14.560 --> 0:35:18.880 Everything about it, from from the cloud to the technological 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:24.080 advances is completely on fire. You're living in what you 0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:27.520 think is a real world. Everything looks if you play 0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:31.600 FIFA Madness. It's really close. People actually getting mixed up 0:35:31.640 --> 0:35:36.719 now between what's real and what's not real. Um, And 0:35:36.800 --> 0:35:39.160 I think the difference not that you ask me this, 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:41.839 but I'm going to volunteer without you asking me this. 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:45.800 Having come from the record business to the game business. 0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:47.680 Although as I like to say it, took me in 0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:50.840 two thousand and two, leaving the record business to finally 0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:54.480 get into the music business. I know you'd like that, 0:35:54.600 --> 0:36:00.719 but it's it's true, um is that the game business 0:36:00.760 --> 0:36:04.799 I noticed, because I was on both sides, did not 0:36:05.040 --> 0:36:08.040 try to hang on to the past. They did not 0:36:08.200 --> 0:36:13.080 try to keep brick and mortar retail in business. They 0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:15.960 didn't go out of their way to keep the shiny 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:19.839 disk boxed in a nice little jewel case and that's 0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:23.200 the way to sell it. There was no attachment. Actually, 0:36:23.280 --> 0:36:25.520 I was in many rooms where they would say, how 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:28.319 do we put this this stuff out of business? How 0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:30.719 do we go direct? How do we create a one 0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:34.360 on one to our players? Why is there a middleman? 0:36:34.960 --> 0:36:37.720 Why are we sacrificing the dollars we're paying to the middleman. 0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:41.440 So that's the financial point of view, but as importantly, 0:36:41.480 --> 0:36:44.600 how to create a one on one relationship? I don't 0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:46.920 recall up until two thousand and one, two thousand to 0:36:47.360 --> 0:36:49.319 ever a record company where they said, how do we 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:51.680 create a one on one relationship with our music fans. 0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:57.280 It was astonishing to me to hear the difference technology. 0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:01.719 They weren't waiting for it, they were creating it. The 0:37:01.760 --> 0:37:05.480 expectation of the player, but also the expectation of the corporation. 0:37:06.080 --> 0:37:09.560 We're in the technology business. We can't look the same 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:12.600 in two thousand three like we do in two thousand two. 0:37:13.120 --> 0:37:17.040 We need to evolve every year or else they're gonna 0:37:17.280 --> 0:37:20.120 players are gonna hate us. We can't keep putting out 0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:23.239 the same features and expect them to show up every year. 0:37:23.640 --> 0:37:27.319 So look at look at how it looks in two 0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:34.240 thousand and three. You see an animated, interactive fun game 0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:40.759 on a on a limited platform, and now you're playing Fortnite. 0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:43.280 By the way, the model changed to free to play. 0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:46.839 Now you're going to place like Fortnite, free to enter. 0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:51.520 The micro transaction replaced all that. Or if you're playing 0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:53.800 Call of Duty, or in the case of e A 0:37:53.840 --> 0:38:00.040 FIFA or Battlefield, you're downloading directly from the cloud and 0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:01.719 gone of the days when you have to wait six 0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:05.160 hours for it to show up. Shows up in six minutes, 0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:09.760 sometimes one minute, and as it's downloading, you're already playing. 0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:13.160 By the way, you're already in with thirty people from 0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:17.959 all over the world. So imagine if you not just 0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:22.239 if you not just create technology, you don't have to 0:38:22.320 --> 0:38:25.200 fight technology. If you're a part of the evolution in 0:38:25.239 --> 0:38:28.759 the creation of technology, and that's the thinking. Imagine what 0:38:28.840 --> 0:38:30.959 the game business is gonna look like in five years 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:34.279 or ten years. Think about everything that's evolved now. I 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:36.800 know you're I've read lots of things you've done between 0:38:36.920 --> 0:38:39.279 VR and a R and AI and on and on 0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:45.000 and on. But I think you know, I've been watching 0:38:45.040 --> 0:38:47.880 the difference now for twenty years between the two businesses 0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:53.080 now the music business now meaning the label business and 0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:57.600 and the publishing business. I think that they've realized that 0:38:57.680 --> 0:39:02.000 technology is a great thing. Um my question my challenges 0:39:03.000 --> 0:39:07.400 are they meaning my and your friends at labels, the 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:10.480 guys that and the women that run labels. Are they 0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:14.920 becoming too complacent right now on the Spotify Apple model, 0:39:15.520 --> 0:39:18.879 because at some point that has to end. You're going 0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:21.080 to have to evolve to the next level. Are you 0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:23.400 a part of building that. I think there are labels 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:26.200 like Warners and Juana, who's the head of digital there. 0:39:26.239 --> 0:39:29.680 I think they invest properly. I think they're attaching themselves 0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:33.640 and growing forward with new technologies. But but the point 0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:39.120 is complacency is very, very dangerous, as we saw in 0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:43.680 the record business, and as i've learned in the game business. 0:39:44.840 --> 0:39:47.280 We cannot be where we are today in six months, 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:50.719 so twenty years. To answer your question, it's a whole 0:39:50.760 --> 0:39:54.040 different medium now. And I don't just believe it. I 0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:56.279 know it. The facts are out there. It is the 0:39:56.360 --> 0:40:01.000 most important medium for anybody under the age of X. 0:40:01.280 --> 0:40:03.160 And you can fill an X by the way. X 0:40:03.160 --> 0:40:06.640 could mean twenty, it could be forty, depends who you ask. 0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:13.400 Is interactive media? Is interactive entertainment? I think so apart 0:40:14.480 --> 0:40:19.000 of the next generations thinking that they expect it in 0:40:19.040 --> 0:40:21.440 all media. Are people who are five and ten in 0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:24.040 fifteen and twenty now, really in twenty years going to 0:40:24.120 --> 0:40:26.560 go on to go to a movie theater where they 0:40:26.600 --> 0:40:28.880 see a film with a beginning, a middle, and an 0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:33.160 end when all they've known their whole life is choice, 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:37.320 going left, going right, having an impact on the story. 0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:40.480 You know, it's something we need to really think about. 0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:43.160 And again I'm volunteering this. You didn't ask me, but 0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:47.360 I've had many, many conversations with the CEOs of many 0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:51.400 labels I where they really start needing to pay attention 0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:56.640 to you GC user generated content. I get it. There's 0:40:56.680 --> 0:41:00.880 clearly problems and you know, Lucy and others. You know, 0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:05.319 they should fight, you know, formats like TikTok because they 0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:08.520 need to be compensated fairly. But the one thing they 0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:12.480 do need to understand, and it's proven music fans want 0:41:12.560 --> 0:41:16.400 to get their hands on the music they want to create. 0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:20.000 I think that really comes from gaming. They want to create. 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:23.680 So how do we untether music in the future and 0:41:23.719 --> 0:41:27.879 become fairly and fairly compensated, not do what we did 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:32.920 before twenty years ago with Napster where we held tight. 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:35.600 We're gonna show them we're not going to let that 0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:39.279 new technology disturb our model. How do we acknowledge that 0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:43.239 you g c is what is expected? You know, I 0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:45.960 was shocked at first, frankly because I came from the 0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:49.000 record business. When all of a sudden, I saw so 0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:53.560 many players creating their own FIFA moments or their battlefield 0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:57.799 moments and attaching our music to it and uploading it 0:41:57.840 --> 0:42:00.120 to YouTube at the time, and I used to think, 0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:03.600 where's the takedowns they're stealing? And I was told by 0:42:03.640 --> 0:42:07.120 our lawyers, no, actually, we actually want you want don't 0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:09.359 you put all of our music up online? Why don't 0:42:09.360 --> 0:42:11.520 you put all of our music on TikTok? We want 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:15.319 our players to create. That's what keeps them engaged. And 0:42:15.400 --> 0:42:19.359 my shift in my thinking was immediate. I oh my god, 0:42:19.400 --> 0:42:22.759 I've been trained in another business where I thought it 0:42:22.840 --> 0:42:27.759 was theft. It's actually engagement. So how do we monetize it? 0:42:28.040 --> 0:42:30.080 How do we make it fair? Is Spotify I can 0:42:30.120 --> 0:42:32.920 to continue to have walls continuously for the future, or 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:34.640 is there another model? I mean, I don't know where 0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:37.520 we gonna charge. If you charge me twelve bucks a 0:42:37.560 --> 0:42:40.880 month for one service, but you know fifteen to untether 0:42:41.120 --> 0:42:42.880 x amount of songs that I can go create, And 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:45.040 there was some model. I'm making that up. I'm going 0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:47.920 to spend that money, particularly if I'm fifteen or eighteen. 0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:50.600 I want to create with this music. So these are 0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:53.080 things you know that I'm challenging people, not for the 0:42:53.160 --> 0:42:56.480 sake of what I do. I created a catalog of 0:42:56.600 --> 0:42:59.160 thousands and thousands, thousands of cues. When I got there. 0:42:59.600 --> 0:43:01.480 We didn't even own some of the music when I 0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:03.279 walked in there. From all the years, now we own 0:43:03.800 --> 0:43:07.960 some of the greatest, most well known themes period. There's 0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:09.640 not a kid you're ever gonna find me that doesn't 0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:11.800 know the theme to the sims or the theme to 0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:16.040 Battlefield seven notes? You know, to me, I grew up 0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:19.560 with those seven notes of Star Wars, don't dunt unt huh? 0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:22.560 That was everything to me as a kid. But to 0:43:22.680 --> 0:43:26.759 another kid who's fifteen or twenty now they listen to 0:43:26.880 --> 0:43:29.600 do dundunt dun't don't, which is the theme to Battlefield, 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:32.640 and they go, holy, that's a holy ship moment. So 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:37.400 how do we monetize that but untether it? How do 0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:39.799 we let kids get their hands on it and go 0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:43.680 create with it? And I think this is the greatest 0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:47.800 opportunity moment we have in twenty years, the untethering of music. 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:53.400 We can't repeat history. We can't do it. We can't 0:43:53.440 --> 0:43:56.200 hold off when the art, particularly now that we if 0:43:56.239 --> 0:43:59.080 we and we do have one on one relationship with 0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:02.960 the music play the music consumer or the player gamer, 0:44:03.880 --> 0:44:06.520 then we need to listen to them. And it's clear 0:44:06.960 --> 0:44:10.200 people want to create, So why are we limiting them? 0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:13.920 So I applaud Universal by the way for taking it on, 0:44:15.080 --> 0:44:18.440 but we need to come up with a solution. And 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:20.439 I know them very well. I know that's the way 0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:22.960 they think as well. But we need to get there 0:44:23.000 --> 0:44:26.640 as a community um in music and gaming. Hope that 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:30.960 makes sense. Let's just go sideways for a second. What 0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:34.320 is the future for Microsoft and Sony. They have certain 0:44:34.360 --> 0:44:39.400 game franchises, but they historically have had the consoles. Is 0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:41.680 it really ultimately just to own the games? What's going 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:45.080 to happen there? I listen, I believe that. You remember 0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:48.680 when um Bill Gates years ago said the Xbox is 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:52.320 going to be the center of your living room. Um, 0:44:52.480 --> 0:44:56.040 that kind of is true now, I mean gaming. You 0:44:56.040 --> 0:44:59.600 can get Netflix, you know it's the center. Um, they're 0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:03.840 gonna be um cloud based boxes, right, I mean, uh, 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:05.960 there's no more disk than needs to be put into it. 0:45:05.960 --> 0:45:07.799 You're gonna be able to download, You're gonna be able 0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:11.040 to what I hope to see. I hope this comes true. 0:45:11.080 --> 0:45:13.840 I think they're all working on it is. Imagine a 0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:18.360 world a community. Let's use sports as an example. Or 0:45:18.400 --> 0:45:21.960 on your PlayStation or your Xbox, you can find your 0:45:22.040 --> 0:45:27.239 other Titans fans. I'm in Nashville. I can play, you know, 0:45:27.320 --> 0:45:30.680 a game of Madden with them an hour before the 0:45:30.680 --> 0:45:35.480 Titans are playing you know, the Broncos. And then without 0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:38.000 even touching it, my whole community of thirty people that 0:45:38.040 --> 0:45:40.839 I just played with sits there without even blinking an eye, 0:45:40.840 --> 0:45:43.520 and we watched the game. We watched the actual game together, 0:45:44.160 --> 0:45:45.839 and then we can tell we can go over here 0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:49.080 to our music section and we can talk about the music. Well. 0:45:49.120 --> 0:45:52.120 In other words, it's our virtual community. It is the 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.360 center of my living room. It is the center of 0:45:54.400 --> 0:45:57.799 my community. People find each other with commonalities, and that 0:45:57.880 --> 0:46:01.480 is where they find each other. Um, I do believe 0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:03.959 that that's where it's going to. Well, it's already going there. 0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:07.880 You know. Look at the fanaticism rightly so of a Fortnight. 0:46:08.239 --> 0:46:11.960 That's a community. Look at the fanaticism of Call of Duty. 0:46:12.040 --> 0:46:15.359 That's a community. Look at the fanaticism of FIFA, that's 0:46:15.360 --> 0:46:20.359 a community. So those communities have other interest maybe they're 0:46:20.360 --> 0:46:24.080 associated with or aligned with gaming music one of them. 0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:26.160 But as if you hear a new artist for the 0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:29.319 first time, you know, in FIFA and you're in your 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:32.880 FIFA community, Hey, let's all meet tonight at o'clock on 0:46:33.040 --> 0:46:34.840 Xbox and we're gonna do a one on one with 0:46:34.920 --> 0:46:38.200 that artist. Let's all get some virtual merch together so 0:46:38.239 --> 0:46:42.560 we can play in our Billie Eilish jerseys tonight versus 0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:46.160 our Titans jerseys. Whatever. The point is that that is 0:46:46.160 --> 0:46:49.480 where the community begins and ends. It's what you and 0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:51.080 I used to do when we were kids, but we 0:46:51.120 --> 0:46:52.640 had to go down the block and hope some other 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:55.520 kids showed up. But now you can do it, you know, 0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:57.799 right from where you are. So I believe there's a 0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:02.440 huge future in in in these boxes. Uh, in your 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:06.600 living room. Uh. They were very limited before. UM. I 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:10.360 think now listen, the question you didn't ask, but I 0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:14.640 assume you were thinking was what happens when Microsoft acquires 0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:20.840 Activision eventually? But since you jump, let's go, do we 0:47:21.160 --> 0:47:24.400 does that limit them? Are they still going to Is 0:47:24.480 --> 0:47:27.239 Activision now Call of Duty going to only be available 0:47:27.239 --> 0:47:32.120 on Microsoft and not Sony anymore? Tbd? They say that's 0:47:32.160 --> 0:47:35.080 not the way they're thinking. I hope that's true. I 0:47:35.080 --> 0:47:38.520 think it'd be foolish personally. But Halo did quite well 0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:43.400 on Xbox only. UM, so let's see what happens there. UM. 0:47:43.440 --> 0:47:48.480 But I think it really is about community. It's about interactivity. 0:47:48.520 --> 0:47:55.160 It's about interactive entertainment. Interactive just doesn't mean a button 0:47:55.239 --> 0:48:00.600 on your controller. Interactive means our community is try link together, 0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:04.279 looking watching sports together, listening to music together, talking about 0:48:04.360 --> 0:48:08.399 music together, playing games together. I think it's a really 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:11.880 exciting future. So let's go back to the players in 0:48:11.920 --> 0:48:16.120 the field and market share, etcetera. Who are the big 0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:21.480 players here? The big players are Activision e A, UM, 0:48:21.520 --> 0:48:23.920 you know, take two. I used to work for straus 0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:26.759 Zelnick at BMG and now you know he's across the hall, 0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:32.600 so to speak. UM, certainly Epic, you know, UM and others. 0:48:33.200 --> 0:48:36.560 I think the addition to your question is who are 0:48:36.600 --> 0:48:40.279 the big players? But what what are their franchises? Are 0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:43.799 they relying on one or two games or do do 0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:48.439 they have a very well spread out portfolio? I think 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:50.640 that's where you know, one of the many reasons why 0:48:50.640 --> 0:48:52.680 I've been any A for twenty years is that we're 0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:57.440 not reliant on one franchise for every battlefield. We have 0:48:57.520 --> 0:49:01.000 FIFA for every Madden, we have SIMS for every UFC. 0:49:01.280 --> 0:49:04.799 We have f one now we just did it. We 0:49:04.840 --> 0:49:08.040 have Star Wars, we have Marvel. I mean, it's it's 0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:11.880 a lot of tent pulse, so to speak, as opposed 0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:15.920 to certain companies which are massive, but they rely on 0:49:15.920 --> 0:49:20.800 one or two franchises. UM. So those are the players. 0:49:20.920 --> 0:49:23.799 Of course, ten Cent you know, as a player, they 0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:29.600 own a piece of everything. UM and Uh. I have 0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:33.760 friends that have left e A to go work for them. Um. 0:49:33.840 --> 0:49:36.680 I don't know how happy they are though that they've left. 0:49:37.040 --> 0:49:39.319 I think once you leave, you I know there's a 0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:41.400 lot of they call them the boomerangs. There's people at 0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:43.040 the A that have left and come back three or 0:49:43.040 --> 0:49:45.919 four times. So it must it must be a good 0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:48.080 place to work. I haven't left, but you know people 0:49:48.160 --> 0:49:52.040 keep coming back and saying thank God? Okay? Is it 0:49:52.120 --> 0:49:56.080 analogous to the movie business, which is at this point 0:49:56.120 --> 0:50:01.879 almost solely franchise in terms of dollars? What war? Can 0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:04.319 you get a new game started? In a new game? 0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:07.040 Does it have to be aligned with F one or something? 0:50:07.080 --> 0:50:09.680 Can you start from the ground up? Yeah, it's a 0:50:09.719 --> 0:50:13.680 great question, and it has changed dramatically. Long cone of 0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:16.960 the day when you could put a bunch out and 0:50:17.000 --> 0:50:21.480 see what sticks. Um. It takes years to develop original 0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:28.360 I P. We do it, UM. I would say once 0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:31.759 every year or two we take a bold step and 0:50:31.880 --> 0:50:35.920 go for it, but there's years behind it. Sometimes we 0:50:36.040 --> 0:50:39.640 bring back our old original I P and reinvent it. 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:42.560 Dead Space is a good example. It was a huge 0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:44.440 hit in the late in the in the two thou 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:48.600 two nine Uh, and we're putting it back out this year. 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:52.839 We do enough research to know there's significant demand for it. 0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:57.160 The same thing with Skate. Skate was original I p 0:50:58.120 --> 0:51:02.440 UM back in the early two usins. However, we're changing 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:04.520 the model. It will be a free to play model. 0:51:04.560 --> 0:51:07.680 It's in beta now with five hundred or a thousand people. 0:51:08.600 --> 0:51:10.160 In two years it will be up to ten million, 0:51:10.239 --> 0:51:14.160 fifteen million people. UM. But there's a lot of testing. 0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:19.520 There's a lot of UM player feedback. UH. We listened 0:51:19.560 --> 0:51:23.279 heavily to every player that comes into early beta's. UM. 0:51:23.280 --> 0:51:26.360 But to answer your question, UM, putting out new I 0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:32.960 p is significantly risky. UM. It's always preferred, you know, 0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:36.520 to have your own original I p UM. But long 0:51:36.520 --> 0:51:38.560 gone of the days when I first started, I remember 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:42.720 sitting with many executive producers talking about ideas for games, 0:51:42.760 --> 0:51:47.319 and we go for it. UM happens a little more 0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:52.680 and often now. UM. Also, the release schedule has thinned 0:51:52.719 --> 0:51:56.200 out over the last five to ten years. There used 0:51:56.239 --> 0:51:59.960 to be you know, Lord knows dozens and dozens of releases. 0:52:00.600 --> 0:52:04.400 Now there's fifteen. UM. So you have to be very 0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:08.200 confident in what you're putting out. UM. If you if 0:52:08.200 --> 0:52:12.480 you put something out that you are either unsure about 0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:17.120 or that is testing terribly um or testing poorly. I 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:21.560 should say, UM, then you better be prepared to engage 0:52:22.160 --> 0:52:25.640 players after it comes out and continually give them content 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:29.040 to re engage them. You you don't run, you don't 0:52:29.120 --> 0:52:32.600 kill things so quickly. Even if you have a poor 0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:35.600 first showing, you double down and you engage them. The 0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:41.399 investment is significant. UM. The reason why, in the case 0:52:41.440 --> 0:52:43.719 of F one, we did an acquisition. We acquired a 0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:47.520 company and the UK called code Masters that makes some 0:52:47.560 --> 0:52:51.080 of the greatest racing games on the planet. UM. So yeah, 0:52:51.160 --> 0:52:53.040 in there there's a high level of confident. They had 0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:57.359 a hugely successful F one game. UM. And last year 0:52:57.440 --> 0:52:59.560 our first one to put out under e A Sports, 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:02.239 with all the talent, by the way that was associated 0:53:02.239 --> 0:53:05.080 with building in that game still intact. We didn't suddenly 0:53:05.080 --> 0:53:10.040 buy the franchise and replace Um. We had a hugely 0:53:10.080 --> 0:53:12.719 successful showing. So there needs to be a high level 0:53:12.800 --> 0:53:15.399 of confidence going in. That doesn't mean there isn't room 0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:21.319 for original thinking. UM. But it takes years. I mean 0:53:21.360 --> 0:53:23.440 I'm working on games right now that won't come out 0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:31.200 until we're that far ahead. Okay, when do you get 0:53:31.239 --> 0:53:35.920 involved in a project. Yeah, no, that's a great question. Um. 0:53:36.040 --> 0:53:40.880 The second something is green light. I get involved because, um, 0:53:40.920 --> 0:53:43.560 I don't live in a post world and I don't 0:53:43.600 --> 0:53:48.280 live in a quote unquote in production world. Once something 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:51.080 begins to be thought out, it is green light for 0:53:51.120 --> 0:53:53.759 the first step. And we're building towards what we call 0:53:53.800 --> 0:53:56.840 a vertical slice, and that means we're building one level 0:53:56.920 --> 0:54:00.879 out just to present internally, to make sure that every 0:54:00.920 --> 0:54:04.040 feels everybody feels confident about going the next step. I'm 0:54:04.040 --> 0:54:06.840 heavily involved in building that vertical slice. I'm doing it 0:54:06.960 --> 0:54:11.280 right now, hiring a composer or thinking about the tone 0:54:11.280 --> 0:54:16.040 of the game and if it if it involves licensed music, um, 0:54:16.080 --> 0:54:19.440 and and that that by thinking those things out early 0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:22.799 enough that actually helps to evolve the characters. You know. 0:54:22.840 --> 0:54:25.120 I have a thing that I do when it's a 0:54:25.160 --> 0:54:28.640 more filmic based game, and I've done this in films 0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:32.279 as well, even though we might we may never have 0:54:32.440 --> 0:54:34.840 licensed music in the game and it's completely filmic. And 0:54:34.880 --> 0:54:37.719 I'm hiring Lauren Ball for Hans Emmer to do the score. Hypothetically, 0:54:38.719 --> 0:54:40.880 I look at the characters and I like to build 0:54:40.880 --> 0:54:44.000 playlists if they were real What would they be listening to? 0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:47.000 Who are they? Are they into new music or the 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:50.000 into classic music or the anto you know which genre 0:54:50.000 --> 0:54:53.120 of music? What would their patterns of listening be. Because 0:54:53.160 --> 0:54:57.359 by associating music to them, each individual helps grow the personality. 0:54:57.640 --> 0:55:00.480 And actually by building those playlists, that helps the writers 0:55:01.320 --> 0:55:03.799 also begin to go I never thought about it that 0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:07.120 character would do this, that characters like this, that character 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:09.839 has the possible ability to do this. So music helps 0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:13.839 us define who those characters are. Um, I've sat there 0:55:13.880 --> 0:55:17.800 with major composers for two years coming up with tones 0:55:17.880 --> 0:55:20.520 and ideas and themes. Some themes never make it to 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:22.960 the final product, but what they do is they'd help 0:55:23.040 --> 0:55:26.600 develop the story. So the answer to your question is 0:55:26.960 --> 0:55:32.680 very very very early, you know, um, long one in 0:55:32.760 --> 0:55:34.640 the days, you know even by the way, to further 0:55:34.640 --> 0:55:40.520 answer your question, FIFA twenty three launches, you know, one day, 0:55:40.640 --> 0:55:44.400 and I'm working on a FIFA the next day, so 0:55:44.960 --> 0:55:50.759 there's never a pause. Those are annual products, so you 0:55:50.840 --> 0:55:53.000 only have a year to figure it out. But the 0:55:53.040 --> 0:55:57.399 more filming, you know, filming games like Battlefield or Mass 0:55:57.400 --> 0:56:09.680 Effect or Dragon Age years three years, sometimes four, Okay, 0:56:09.719 --> 0:56:13.719 so you're in there you're making playlists, etcetera. When do 0:56:13.800 --> 0:56:20.680 you establish a budget and when do you spend dollar one? Yeah, um, 0:56:21.160 --> 0:56:23.719 usually when we get past the with the exception of 0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:27.280 hiring a composer early, where I'm exposed to an initial 0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:31.080 payment to that composer. UM. I usually don't start spending 0:56:31.120 --> 0:56:35.440 money until our vertical slices passed the the internal test 0:56:36.160 --> 0:56:38.240 and we're on our way. We're on a production schedule. 0:56:38.239 --> 0:56:41.880 At that point, I develop a budget. I take a 0:56:41.880 --> 0:56:43.919 look at what we need, possibly what we don't need. 0:56:44.480 --> 0:56:46.759 I take a look at the what the score might 0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:50.440 sound like, so I can begin to project, um ahead, 0:56:50.560 --> 0:56:55.200 what the costs of recording that orchestra will be. UM, 0:56:55.239 --> 0:56:58.320 what level of composer, unless I've hired that composer already, 0:56:58.560 --> 0:57:00.719 a level that composer I'm going to be able to 0:57:00.800 --> 0:57:03.799 afford to bring on. UM. So I would say, the 0:57:03.880 --> 0:57:07.600 day we get the vertical slice pass full thumbs up, greenlit, 0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:11.080 move forward, I'm in. So I'm managing that budget usually 0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:15.839 for about two years. Our next Star Wars project, which 0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:19.960 comes out in March, I've been working on for well. 0:57:20.000 --> 0:57:22.439 I measure it now by the pandemic, through the entire 0:57:22.480 --> 0:57:28.960 pandemic so what was that one? Um, sorry, it's almost 0:57:28.960 --> 0:57:32.400 three years. So that's the length because I remember starting 0:57:32.400 --> 0:57:36.000 it there. Um, so I built that budget out three 0:57:36.040 --> 0:57:40.360 years ago. UM, and uh, we're just finishing it now. 0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:43.280 We have one more thing to complete and then we're done. 0:57:43.280 --> 0:57:47.080 So that's a full full three years of writing, recording, 0:57:48.240 --> 0:57:54.000 managing a budget, um, and delivering against what the expectations are. Now, 0:57:54.040 --> 0:57:55.760 of course there's the issue of whether you're going to 0:57:55.840 --> 0:57:58.360 have a score, whether you're gonna have licensed music, whether 0:57:58.360 --> 0:58:01.000 you can combine those. How do you come up with 0:58:01.040 --> 0:58:03.480 the raw number for a budget? Does it depend on 0:58:03.520 --> 0:58:07.400 the overall budget of the game, or do they say, 0:58:07.440 --> 0:58:10.560 we trust you, Steve, just tell us what it should cost. 0:58:10.840 --> 0:58:12.160 How do you come up with a number? I think 0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:14.400 it's a combination of the two. I mean, certainly on 0:58:14.400 --> 0:58:19.080 a smaller mobile game comparatively to hypothetically Star Wars, you imagine, 0:58:19.080 --> 0:58:22.280 the budgets are quite different and so the expectations are 0:58:22.360 --> 0:58:26.400 much different as well. By the way, so, um, I'm 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:31.160 able to suggest uh and usually get signed off on 0:58:31.800 --> 0:58:35.520 a budget big enough to be able to deliver on 0:58:35.560 --> 0:58:38.720 a title like that. Um. But there is Yes, I've 0:58:38.720 --> 0:58:42.160 been there twenty years So I think I am confidently 0:58:42.640 --> 0:58:46.880 um and humbly at the place where you know, I'll 0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:51.720 present a budget and people trust me. Um. I'm not 0:58:52.840 --> 0:58:58.440 stupid uh, and I'm certainly um trustworthy enough internally to 0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:01.320 where I'm not going to spend million dollars on something 0:59:01.320 --> 0:59:05.560 where the expectations should be fifty grand. Um. So I 0:59:05.600 --> 0:59:08.360 think I'm to the point now or after all these years, 0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:11.880 where I can suggest a budget to the ep UH 0:59:11.920 --> 0:59:15.960 and have finance sign off on it uh quickly because 0:59:16.000 --> 0:59:20.280 they understand what I'm delivering will deliver. So to speak, Um, 0:59:20.320 --> 0:59:25.720 that takes time. It takes um delivering winning scores, It 0:59:25.760 --> 0:59:30.120 takes years of seeing audience player feedback. You know, nobody 0:59:30.160 --> 0:59:33.000 blinks an I fortunately with me right now, you know 0:59:33.160 --> 0:59:35.800 when I put in a budget for FIFA, because everybody 0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:38.440 sees the cultural impact and the and the return on 0:59:38.560 --> 0:59:43.160 investment of that license music budget. Um. But I'm also 0:59:43.240 --> 0:59:44.760 not stupid to where I'm gonna go and say I 0:59:44.760 --> 0:59:47.320 want to triple my budget. I pretty much delivered on 0:59:47.360 --> 0:59:51.520 the same numbers every year, you know, and if something changes, um, 0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:56.400 then I adjust, okay, Uh, just because I remember the 0:59:56.480 --> 1:00:01.040 question I was going to ask in terms of mobile games. 1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:04.080 How big a part of that is e A. And 1:00:04.120 --> 1:00:07.960 of course, if you're on the iPhone platform, apples taking 1:00:09.320 --> 1:00:11.320 you have the Google Play. What's going on in that 1:00:11.400 --> 1:00:14.920 world is opposed to the stuff that's downloaded for play 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:18.080 on the Internet or whatever. I mean mobile games. We've 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:22.920 invested heavily in mobile games. I mean we acquired Glue, um, 1:00:23.440 --> 1:00:26.720 which remember the days when this little help was I'm 1:00:26.760 --> 1:00:30.440 anticipating a question in this conversation about Kanye So remember 1:00:30.440 --> 1:00:35.120 when his ex wife had her big uh mobile game. 1:00:35.720 --> 1:00:39.240 Glue did that. And Glue also did the Taylor Swift 1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:41.000 game that I don't know if that ever came to life, 1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:45.680 but and so there they were a massive mobile platform 1:00:45.760 --> 1:00:49.520 and we acquired those guys. In the last two years. Um, 1:00:50.120 --> 1:00:55.600 we're finally pouring out all of our franchises like FIFA 1:00:55.680 --> 1:01:00.439 and others onto mobile platforms. So we're investing heavily in mobile. Uh. 1:01:00.480 --> 1:01:02.840 The economics, like you said, you know, think about it. 1:01:02.880 --> 1:01:05.440 You're wherever you're buying those is a piece being taken out. 1:01:05.480 --> 1:01:07.480 Of course, you know you're gonna buy a mobile game 1:01:07.480 --> 1:01:11.320 on Apple, you know the economics of it, um, But 1:01:13.120 --> 1:01:18.680 you know console games are where the significant expenses in 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:25.160 creating and developing significant. Okay, So if you have one 1:01:25.200 --> 1:01:29.600 of your big games, whether it be uh end well 1:01:29.720 --> 1:01:33.440 or every three or four years, if it's solely score, 1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:38.760 or if it's solely licensed music, what's the number for 1:01:38.800 --> 1:01:43.760 the budget ballpark? UM? I can tell you this. I 1:01:43.760 --> 1:01:45.640 can tell you what I can and cannot answer, but 1:01:45.920 --> 1:01:48.680 UM it is to answer an earlier questionnaires. It is 1:01:48.720 --> 1:01:51.360 somewhat like the movie industry in that regard. Somewhere between 1:01:51.440 --> 1:01:57.480 one of the overall score UM closer to one usually 1:01:57.800 --> 1:01:59.960 is what I can get for a music budget. It's 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:05.440 small comparatively to the overall numbers in developing a game. UM. 1:02:05.640 --> 1:02:08.960 You know, I. I know you didn't ask me this, 1:02:09.000 --> 1:02:15.080 but I'm gonna say it anyway. UM I I believe 1:02:15.600 --> 1:02:19.280 that we should always pay, you know, for other people's 1:02:19.280 --> 1:02:22.520 IP We pay to license music into FIFA. We pay 1:02:22.600 --> 1:02:25.320 the license music in the Madden There have been thoughts 1:02:25.360 --> 1:02:29.320 for years about what television used to do. Well, we 1:02:29.360 --> 1:02:31.560 have a we're a promotional vehicle, so you should give 1:02:31.560 --> 1:02:33.959 it to us for free. And I fought that every 1:02:33.960 --> 1:02:38.360 single ounce of the way for several reasons. Number one, UM, 1:02:38.480 --> 1:02:43.520 the minute we start not paying for music and either 1:02:43.600 --> 1:02:46.840 accept payment for the placement or take it for free. 1:02:47.560 --> 1:02:50.920 The credibility of our curation goes down the toilet, and 1:02:51.000 --> 1:02:53.600 that can never happen. We have to make decisions based 1:02:53.640 --> 1:02:57.680 on great music that will travel around the world. I 1:02:57.720 --> 1:03:00.560 also believe you pay for other people's intellectual property, and 1:03:00.560 --> 1:03:05.480 if we're licensing something, we're gonna pay for it. So um, 1:03:05.520 --> 1:03:07.880 you know, I manage, you know, to get a hundred 1:03:07.880 --> 1:03:11.520 plus songs in FIFA close to that in Madden, and 1:03:11.560 --> 1:03:14.240 I set a budget incording accordingly where the money goes 1:03:14.280 --> 1:03:15.960 the right way, it goes to the people who are 1:03:15.960 --> 1:03:19.400 licensing from We make better decisions. Everybody wants to be 1:03:19.480 --> 1:03:22.240 in that real estate. But you know we don't make 1:03:22.280 --> 1:03:25.960 those We don't make those decisions based on cost or 1:03:26.040 --> 1:03:29.120 money spent. We make those decisions based on the best 1:03:29.200 --> 1:03:33.040 music possible. And you know, fees and budgets set on that. 1:03:33.320 --> 1:03:36.480 Everybody has an expectation as to what we're gonna pay. 1:03:36.880 --> 1:03:39.800 Let's go to the easier side the score. So you 1:03:39.880 --> 1:03:45.000 may hire someone prior to the layer cake being complete, 1:03:45.480 --> 1:03:49.360 but you're gonna hire somebody shut either after over the 1:03:49.400 --> 1:03:52.080 period of years, which is longer than it takes to 1:03:52.120 --> 1:03:56.560 make a movie. How involved is the composer? Tell me 1:03:56.640 --> 1:04:00.840 the relationship from the moment you hire them to end 1:04:00.840 --> 1:04:04.080 of production. Yeah, this is a part of the business 1:04:04.120 --> 1:04:08.160 in particular that I genuinely and deeply love. I didn't 1:04:08.160 --> 1:04:10.440 know how much I loved it, frankly, Bob, until I 1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:13.240 got into it to the point where I have such 1:04:13.280 --> 1:04:18.760 a deep connection to the composer community. Um, listen, I 1:04:18.840 --> 1:04:21.760 allow the composer to be involved, he or she as 1:04:21.800 --> 1:04:24.080 deeply as they would like to be. I would prefer 1:04:24.160 --> 1:04:26.920 more than less. I would prefer to them to have 1:04:27.040 --> 1:04:30.760 input into the story, into the characters. I want that 1:04:30.920 --> 1:04:33.640 because I want the music to inextricably tie in with 1:04:33.680 --> 1:04:39.640 the characters and the action. Um. So, these are very 1:04:39.720 --> 1:04:42.920 long periods of time, So I don't have Hans Zimmer 1:04:43.560 --> 1:04:47.680 or Hilda or others exclusively for these three years they're 1:04:47.720 --> 1:04:51.960 doing they're doing movies, they're doing television shows. But when 1:04:51.960 --> 1:04:55.720 we get closer to release, after years of building these 1:04:55.800 --> 1:05:00.959 tones and ideas, then they come in the time exclusively 1:05:01.240 --> 1:05:03.360 and they helped me finish out the project. That's kind 1:05:03.360 --> 1:05:07.600 of where it's just that's more like a movie. Um, Frankly, 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:10.360 I've never seen a composer now that I think about 1:05:10.360 --> 1:05:14.240 it to this day that hasn't just dove in the 1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:18.320 deep end. They want all in the biggest composers in 1:05:18.360 --> 1:05:21.800 the world. I watched, you know, shows on Netflix and 1:05:21.920 --> 1:05:24.800 HBO and others, and I'm blown away by some of 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:27.320 the music that's happening in television right now, which is 1:05:27.400 --> 1:05:30.160 one of the most exciting places too for entertainment. My 1:05:30.760 --> 1:05:32.760 you know, there's I don't even know if we announced 1:05:32.760 --> 1:05:34.240 it yet. We will in a minute, So while say 1:05:34.240 --> 1:05:37.800 here here, I'll say it here anyway, pardon me, um. 1:05:37.840 --> 1:05:40.840 I was watching the show on Apple called Servant. It 1:05:40.960 --> 1:05:45.880 was a Shamalan thing. The music was so damn good. 1:05:46.600 --> 1:05:49.200 It was horror music, but like I never heard before. 1:05:49.520 --> 1:05:54.400 Horror music is supposed to sound like Bernard Herman meets 1:05:54.480 --> 1:06:00.280 you know, um, Halloween, but this was psychological. The music sick. 1:06:00.680 --> 1:06:03.360 It's scared the b Jesus out of me, the music 1:06:03.400 --> 1:06:07.000 in that. And so for Dead Space, which comes out 1:06:07.120 --> 1:06:12.440 next year early next year, I wanted this guy, Trevor Grecus, 1:06:12.840 --> 1:06:18.480 didn't meet him, never knew, blew my mind. So this 1:06:18.560 --> 1:06:22.720 relationship now is two years old. He has contributed so 1:06:22.840 --> 1:06:28.960 much in challenging us. What does horror feel like? What 1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:32.840 does fear feel like? How could you psychologically get into 1:06:32.840 --> 1:06:35.760 the head of somebody on a couch who you'll never meet, 1:06:36.560 --> 1:06:40.080 to where they are emotionally messed up from what's happening 1:06:40.080 --> 1:06:45.520 on screen musically speaking. So I think you want somebody 1:06:45.560 --> 1:06:50.080 like that who has huge ideas, who's the next generation thinker, 1:06:50.520 --> 1:06:54.080 who understands the medium. Because Trevor is a game fanatic. 1:06:54.920 --> 1:06:58.240 He understood massive fact he he played the old Dead Spaces, 1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:01.920 he knew it. I don't need composers because they're gamers, 1:07:01.960 --> 1:07:05.480 because they understand the technology. But I want composers who 1:07:05.600 --> 1:07:09.880 understand the opportunities that come with the medium, and that 1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:13.080 to me is where it changes the whole game, no 1:07:13.200 --> 1:07:18.080 pun intended. Lauren Bolf does the same. He does Mission 1:07:18.120 --> 1:07:21.040 Impossible and all these great movies that are that are 1:07:21.040 --> 1:07:23.520 in the theaters. But when I work with him, he 1:07:23.600 --> 1:07:28.400 digs in because it's like it's like a sandbox. Now 1:07:28.440 --> 1:07:30.960 I get to explore. Now I get to have fun. 1:07:31.480 --> 1:07:35.400 Now I'm not tethered to that thing the director shot 1:07:35.480 --> 1:07:38.400 that's on screen. Now I can come up with all 1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:42.840 these crazy ideas. I can invent instruments. We can play 1:07:42.880 --> 1:07:45.600 the instruments in ways they're not even supposed to be played. 1:07:46.360 --> 1:07:49.680 We can go and you know, just whatever wacky ideas 1:07:49.720 --> 1:07:57.080 that enhanced that emotional participation. And um, I just think 1:07:57.080 --> 1:08:00.920 it's it's really become. Frankly, one if not my favorite 1:08:00.960 --> 1:08:05.480 parts of the gig is digging in with these intensely 1:08:05.560 --> 1:08:09.840 creative minds and coming up with ways. Well, I'm gonna 1:08:09.840 --> 1:08:14.440 give you another example. Hilder, who won the Oscar for Joker, 1:08:15.160 --> 1:08:20.479 who I learned warners wanted to fire her every single day, 1:08:20.600 --> 1:08:23.519 not Todd Phillips but everybody else because she was doing 1:08:23.560 --> 1:08:28.680 something very against the grain. Um. When I first met her, 1:08:28.720 --> 1:08:30.559 I was smart enough to go to Berlin. It was 1:08:30.600 --> 1:08:34.800 my last trip before the pandemic. Uh. I knew she 1:08:34.880 --> 1:08:37.320 was going to win the Oscar, but she hadn't, and 1:08:37.360 --> 1:08:40.040 I wanted to hire her to do battlefield the next battlefield. 1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:45.640 Battlefield takes place obviously in the future, but the not 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:52.759 too distance future. Climate change has completely destroyed the world 1:08:52.760 --> 1:08:55.360 as we know it. Sounds like it could be true. 1:08:56.280 --> 1:09:00.400 Hurricanes are ten times stronger, snow snowstorms or growing up 1:09:00.400 --> 1:09:06.000 in July, nations are underwater, there's two nations left, Russia 1:09:06.080 --> 1:09:09.360 and the US, and they go to war. They're not 1:09:09.439 --> 1:09:16.800 fighting for land, they're fighting for control of climate. So 1:09:16.840 --> 1:09:21.799 I sat with Hilder and at first she said, m hm, 1:09:21.800 --> 1:09:23.519 war game. I don't know how I feel about that. 1:09:23.560 --> 1:09:26.880 Remember I knew her for an hour, and I said, 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:29.560 you know, the difference between call of duty and battlefield 1:09:29.640 --> 1:09:33.559 is battlefield isn't about war. Let's see how many people 1:09:33.600 --> 1:09:37.080 we can shoot. Choo choo, choo shoot. It actually makes 1:09:37.080 --> 1:09:39.759 you think as to why we're in war. It actually 1:09:39.840 --> 1:09:44.000 is a war game with a conscious And imagine if 1:09:44.040 --> 1:09:46.320 we could write a score we didn't know there was 1:09:46.360 --> 1:09:49.160 a pandemic that was about to happen. Imagine if we 1:09:49.160 --> 1:09:54.120 could write a score that was indistinguishable between the music 1:09:54.160 --> 1:09:58.360 and the sound design, to where the bullets sounded like percussion. Sorry, 1:09:58.520 --> 1:10:02.000 the helicopter sounded like cushion, the bullets coming out of helicopters, 1:10:03.400 --> 1:10:06.840 and the string sounded like the wind. But to the 1:10:06.880 --> 1:10:10.160 point where the fear of the inevitable, unless we get 1:10:10.160 --> 1:10:12.080 a grasp as to what the hell is going on 1:10:12.160 --> 1:10:15.360 with climate change in this world, it makes you shake 1:10:15.360 --> 1:10:19.360 in your shoes, shake in your chair. Can we write 1:10:19.400 --> 1:10:23.280 a score where you can listen to it on Spotify, 1:10:23.320 --> 1:10:26.320 and I really recommend it from the beginning to the end. 1:10:27.160 --> 1:10:29.960 Get some wine, smoke a joint, I don't care, Get 1:10:30.000 --> 1:10:33.080 into a place, lean back in a chair. Can it 1:10:33.160 --> 1:10:36.120 live in its own? Can it be a warning? Can 1:10:36.160 --> 1:10:39.000 it let us know? Can it let us feel what 1:10:39.040 --> 1:10:43.080 we're doing to this planet, the inevitable where we're headed? 1:10:43.880 --> 1:10:46.120 And her eyes lit up. I said, so, think about 1:10:46.120 --> 1:10:48.639 it as a piece of music that works in the game, 1:10:49.280 --> 1:10:51.439 but think of it also as a piece of art, 1:10:52.400 --> 1:10:55.479 a piece of music that can live in its own 1:10:56.040 --> 1:10:58.760 and shake our souls to what we've done to this 1:10:58.800 --> 1:11:01.800 planet and what's an inevitably going to happen unless we 1:11:01.840 --> 1:11:05.960 get on the right track. Can we do that? And 1:11:06.040 --> 1:11:08.600 within an hour here's a woman that just won the 1:11:08.600 --> 1:11:11.280 Golden Globe, was about to win an oscar, and she 1:11:11.400 --> 1:11:14.400 was signing on to do music for a game she 1:11:14.560 --> 1:11:17.200 never played, a game she never wrote for a game. 1:11:18.720 --> 1:11:22.040 We decided not to record any live instruments. We decided 1:11:22.080 --> 1:11:25.800 to invent instruments. We decided to go to a shipyard 1:11:25.840 --> 1:11:30.200 in France and record the scraping of the hull against 1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:33.960 the metal and the cement. We wanted it to not 1:11:34.160 --> 1:11:39.040 necessarily be musical. We wanted it to be emotional. So 1:11:39.120 --> 1:11:42.160 I've sat in the studio at my house many times 1:11:42.160 --> 1:11:45.360 and listen to the score album. It is not like 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:49.800 listening to you know, Fiddler on the Roof or or 1:11:49.840 --> 1:11:53.360 anything like that. It makes you go. It's if there's 1:11:53.400 --> 1:11:57.040 a little nine inch nails in there in the sense 1:11:57.120 --> 1:12:01.479 of electronic what the f is this? There's a lot 1:12:01.520 --> 1:12:05.479 of pulsation in there that makes your heart go to 1:12:05.520 --> 1:12:08.720 a place you can't imagine. And there's a hell of 1:12:08.760 --> 1:12:10.760 a lot. At the end of forty something minutes, you're 1:12:10.800 --> 1:12:14.000 sitting there in your chair saying, what the funk was that? 1:12:16.040 --> 1:12:19.000 And hopefully, and now I believe she's about to be 1:12:19.040 --> 1:12:24.040 hopefully nominated for two Oscars I hear this year. But 1:12:24.840 --> 1:12:28.240 I've seen it performed eleven minute piece at Disney Hall, 1:12:28.320 --> 1:12:31.280 and I just saw another maybe fifteen minute piece of 1:12:31.280 --> 1:12:35.160 the score performed at the Opera House in Sweden. And 1:12:35.240 --> 1:12:38.160 it lives on its own. It can sit on its 1:12:38.160 --> 1:12:41.639 own and be a masterpiece and art piece because art 1:12:41.720 --> 1:12:45.120 is supposed to and I think you'll agree shake you 1:12:45.160 --> 1:12:47.679 to your core. If you see something or feel something, 1:12:47.720 --> 1:12:49.960 it's supposed to shake you. It's supposed to make you think, 1:12:50.320 --> 1:12:52.479 wake up, even if you don't like it, even if 1:12:52.520 --> 1:12:56.600 you disagree with it, even if you hate it. I 1:12:56.640 --> 1:13:00.080 don't need war in this case. Every time you in 1:13:00.120 --> 1:13:02.360 a battle for it to be Timpani who said war 1:13:02.439 --> 1:13:05.800 has to a victory has to sound like fog horn 1:13:05.880 --> 1:13:09.679 d I mean if I ever was in a war 1:13:10.560 --> 1:13:12.960 and I just want a battle and I killed people, 1:13:13.880 --> 1:13:17.360 I'd throw up. Probably I would not have a victory. 1:13:17.439 --> 1:13:21.240 Lap so we wanted today could take a different approach 1:13:21.240 --> 1:13:24.320 out of it that hopefully to answer your question, is 1:13:24.320 --> 1:13:27.639 the level of high involvement that some of the best 1:13:27.680 --> 1:13:30.880 composers in the world all get involved with when it 1:13:30.920 --> 1:13:34.720 comes to this medium. It's pretty phenomenal to see it 1:13:42.000 --> 1:13:46.720 now there are a lot of old rockers involved in composition. 1:13:46.880 --> 1:13:49.960 Is that window still open? And what is the barrier 1:13:50.040 --> 1:13:55.720 to entry for newbies to the sphere. When you say 1:13:55.720 --> 1:13:59.000 old rockers want, you mean old rockers wanting to get 1:13:59.040 --> 1:14:01.360 their music into you. No, no, no, no, I'm talking 1:14:01.360 --> 1:14:06.680 about his composers like Mark Mark m M. Yeah. I 1:14:06.680 --> 1:14:09.559 get a lot of calls, Bob from a lot of 1:14:09.560 --> 1:14:12.360 guys in bands that I worked with in the old 1:14:12.439 --> 1:14:14.960 days or bands that I certainly know of in the 1:14:15.000 --> 1:14:19.439 old days that they want to be composers. Um. Very 1:14:19.479 --> 1:14:25.639 few can make that transition. There are great exceptions. Trevor Rabin, 1:14:26.640 --> 1:14:30.559 Mark Mother's Bow, you know, certainly the guys in nine 1:14:30.560 --> 1:14:37.840 inch Nails. You know, Trent and Atticus UM, Jeff Russo, UM. 1:14:37.880 --> 1:14:42.920 Certain guys can do it. Most camp and I've done 1:14:42.960 --> 1:14:47.280 it with many, probably a few too many times because 1:14:47.280 --> 1:14:49.200 I was a fan and thought, oh, this is just 1:14:49.240 --> 1:14:51.640 gonna be awesome. I've always wanted to work with this 1:14:51.720 --> 1:14:56.559 guy or this woman. UM. But there's it's it's a 1:14:56.840 --> 1:14:59.400 big gap between being a rock star and being a 1:14:59.439 --> 1:15:04.639 composed The first one is collaboration. If you're making a record, 1:15:04.680 --> 1:15:07.200 you're going into studio, you're shutting everybody out. You deliver 1:15:07.280 --> 1:15:09.599 the record, maybe to your A and R guy, Maybe 1:15:09.640 --> 1:15:12.439 he gives you an hour or three of feedback. Maybe 1:15:12.479 --> 1:15:15.040 you adjust, maybe you don't. But it was done in isolation. 1:15:15.800 --> 1:15:19.519 Hans Simmer doesn't do anything in isolation. He calls me. 1:15:19.600 --> 1:15:22.120 He's working with me right now every single day. What 1:15:22.200 --> 1:15:24.800 do you think about this? Should I change it? Does 1:15:24.840 --> 1:15:27.320 it fit? Yeah? Hans? Why don't we try doing this? 1:15:27.520 --> 1:15:29.360 Instead of this, I need to get this emotion out 1:15:29.360 --> 1:15:33.040 of it. Okay, I'll be back. It's a collaborative thing. 1:15:33.880 --> 1:15:37.840 So sometimes a little ego gets in the way of 1:15:37.880 --> 1:15:42.280 the rock star trying to be a composer. Sometimes the 1:15:42.439 --> 1:15:48.280 idea that they're being given direction doesn't fall so well 1:15:48.560 --> 1:15:52.479 on their ears. I was working God, I was so 1:15:52.520 --> 1:15:59.000 optimistic about working with this big, high profile hip hop guy, um, 1:15:59.000 --> 1:16:01.200 and after a couple weeks, I just we just couldn't 1:16:01.200 --> 1:16:03.440 go any further because every time I would give direction, 1:16:04.320 --> 1:16:06.120 he would come back with a different version of what 1:16:06.160 --> 1:16:10.920 he did. And I'm not saying my my word, my 1:16:11.000 --> 1:16:13.439 direction is the end and make it like me. That's 1:16:13.479 --> 1:16:17.280 not what I'm saying, But like Hans or Hilder, where 1:16:17.320 --> 1:16:19.840 we'll sit there and we'll come up with crazy ideas. 1:16:20.360 --> 1:16:23.120 What if we could do this? What if they challenge me, 1:16:23.320 --> 1:16:26.000 I challenge them. It's a pretty deep relation. Listen, a 1:16:26.040 --> 1:16:28.080 lot of these composers have become my best friends. I 1:16:28.120 --> 1:16:30.160 spend more time with them than anybody you know, to 1:16:30.360 --> 1:16:35.440 three years on a project, every day, hours every day, 1:16:35.520 --> 1:16:41.599 so that transition is really really tough. Um. Like I said, 1:16:41.600 --> 1:16:45.200 there are exceptions, you know, Jeff Russo has become an 1:16:45.200 --> 1:16:48.840 incredible composer. Played guitar in a rock band. Who knew 1:16:49.360 --> 1:16:54.760 he knew probably I worked with him before. Um incredible 1:16:54.800 --> 1:16:58.439 collaborative spirit. But then there's the next generation of great 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:03.320 composers who did play in rock bands, Chris Bowers, Hilda 1:17:03.400 --> 1:17:06.840 who I just talked about. It's collaboration from the second 1:17:06.840 --> 1:17:10.759 you enter the room together. There's no here's my idea, 1:17:11.360 --> 1:17:16.120 that doesn't exist. It's let's create the vision where when? 1:17:16.320 --> 1:17:19.720 And and very humbly speaking, Hans Zimmer, biggest composer in 1:17:19.720 --> 1:17:22.160 the world. What do you think? Did I get it wrong? 1:17:22.320 --> 1:17:24.320 I might have gotten it wrong? What do you think? 1:17:24.360 --> 1:17:28.040 And they want feedback. There isn't an ego asking here, 1:17:28.080 --> 1:17:30.880 you know. It's I'm not saying ego doesn't exist, because 1:17:30.920 --> 1:17:35.080 that would be naive. But it's a very different thing 1:17:35.240 --> 1:17:42.280 than making a record. UM. And I really enjoy UM. 1:17:42.320 --> 1:17:45.280 You know. I'm heavily involved in the SCL the Society 1:17:45.360 --> 1:17:53.080 Composers and Lyricists, and this community of collaborators is quite impressive, 1:17:53.120 --> 1:17:55.640 and it's something I was never really exposed to when 1:17:55.680 --> 1:17:58.320 I was in the record business for so long. You'd 1:17:58.320 --> 1:17:59.760 go in there and you'd make a record with the 1:17:59.760 --> 1:18:02.439 band end, but you had to make sure you were 1:18:02.560 --> 1:18:06.200 good to their ego. You know, that's great. How many 1:18:07.160 --> 1:18:09.360 hopefully I wasn't in too many, But you know how 1:18:09.400 --> 1:18:11.040 many times did you go in the board room once 1:18:11.080 --> 1:18:13.200 a week and they played a record and you thought 1:18:13.200 --> 1:18:15.720 the record was average? But everybody's bobbing their head up 1:18:15.760 --> 1:18:18.080 and down because everybody's looking at each other, and because 1:18:18.120 --> 1:18:19.880 the CEO is in the room, Oh my god. But 1:18:19.920 --> 1:18:21.680 you're going, oh my god, this thing's gonna stiff the 1:18:21.720 --> 1:18:25.679 second and it's radio. You know, everybody's bullshitting each other. 1:18:27.280 --> 1:18:30.200 Composers and myself and others. We don't bullshit each other. 1:18:30.200 --> 1:18:35.000 We just we understand the end result is the most 1:18:35.040 --> 1:18:38.200 important thing. How we get there, it doesn't matter. There's 1:18:38.200 --> 1:18:41.360 no feelings to be hurt. You know, there's no my 1:18:41.479 --> 1:18:44.960 way or the highway, you know. So just going back 1:18:45.000 --> 1:18:48.320 to the Hilder thing, you know, it's it's it's going 1:18:48.400 --> 1:18:52.200 to disturb you to listen to the score for Battlefield, 1:18:54.240 --> 1:18:58.280 and that's the intention. But that wasn't something that she 1:18:58.439 --> 1:19:00.880 came up with and said, Okay, I got it, I'll 1:19:00.880 --> 1:19:02.439 write it, I'll send it to you in three months. 1:19:03.040 --> 1:19:08.840 That was Monday through Saturday. She was in Berlin. I 1:19:08.880 --> 1:19:12.000 was in Nashville during a pandemic. We had our Swedish 1:19:12.000 --> 1:19:17.320 producers every day on the phone hours listening to not 1:19:17.520 --> 1:19:22.160 just Q by Q, listening to bar by bar of 1:19:22.320 --> 1:19:25.840 collaborative effort to create something that all of us. I 1:19:25.840 --> 1:19:29.120 remember I handed the first portion to score in and 1:19:29.120 --> 1:19:31.599 I had some people go, what is this? This is horrible? 1:19:31.640 --> 1:19:35.120 We can't deal with this. Why because it's upsetting us. 1:19:35.560 --> 1:19:40.080 Good We're on the right track. Okay, let's flip the 1:19:40.160 --> 1:19:46.080 story over. Uh, let's talk about a totally licensed UH score. 1:19:46.720 --> 1:19:51.000 What I mean is different individual rock, pop, hip hop tracks. 1:19:51.800 --> 1:19:53.880 How do you decide to do that? And what are 1:19:53.920 --> 1:19:58.599 the steps in that? So? I have some rules I've 1:19:58.640 --> 1:20:00.920 had for twenty years with my team, and my team 1:20:00.920 --> 1:20:04.879 has been together for that long. Uh. Nobody is allowed 1:20:04.920 --> 1:20:09.479 to listen to the radio. Ever. Nobody is allowed to 1:20:09.520 --> 1:20:14.479 be influenced or looked at charts. Ever. Nobody is allowed 1:20:14.520 --> 1:20:17.880 to define success in a one dimensional way. Having a 1:20:17.960 --> 1:20:20.639 number one or a top ten record is meaningless because 1:20:20.640 --> 1:20:24.759 success in the year two and music can be defined 1:20:24.760 --> 1:20:28.120 in many different ways. Is somebody who gets a hundred 1:20:28.160 --> 1:20:31.720 million streams on Spotify more important than somebody who has 1:20:31.720 --> 1:20:35.200 a million streams. They're both successful, depends who they are, 1:20:35.320 --> 1:20:40.400 depends what the expectations were. So I believe if we 1:20:40.479 --> 1:20:45.360 pay attention to trends, if we understand who's on their 1:20:45.400 --> 1:20:49.040 way up, who's potentially not where to certain where are 1:20:49.080 --> 1:20:53.400 certain genres going in the World's hip hop? Certainly, you 1:20:53.400 --> 1:20:55.240 can look at the numbers of hip hop. It's the 1:20:55.280 --> 1:20:59.719 most popular genre in music around the world. But where 1:20:59.760 --> 1:21:03.000 is it in its life in its lifetime right now? 1:21:03.800 --> 1:21:07.000 You know, we were we were we were working with Anita, 1:21:07.600 --> 1:21:11.800 you know, years ago, you know, in Latin America because 1:21:11.880 --> 1:21:15.960 we believed we saw this trend of the globalization of 1:21:16.040 --> 1:21:21.080 Latin music. So we were placing Anita in the sims 1:21:21.120 --> 1:21:26.200 like before. We were fighting our own folks internally, you know, 1:21:26.600 --> 1:21:31.439 um rock, I told Sabelle on my team the second 1:21:31.439 --> 1:21:33.599 I started hearing a couple of years ago, rock is dead. 1:21:33.600 --> 1:21:36.160 I said, take the NHL franchise and bring rock back. 1:21:36.800 --> 1:21:39.920 It's gonna come back. There's no way you're gonna convince 1:21:40.000 --> 1:21:43.000 me rock is dead forever. Go find the greatest rock 1:21:43.040 --> 1:21:45.800 bands on the planet, not the old ones, not the 1:21:45.840 --> 1:21:48.880 ones that sound like the old ones. What is rocks? 1:21:48.920 --> 1:21:51.160 And what is a kid? Who's a team? Who was 1:21:51.240 --> 1:21:55.120 raised on jay Z and Metallica because parents played it? 1:21:55.320 --> 1:21:57.840 What is the what is that sound like? What is 1:21:57.880 --> 1:22:00.840 the next evolution of rock? Sound like? Take the entire 1:22:01.040 --> 1:22:06.000 NHL soundtrack and devoted to bringing rock back, pay attention 1:22:06.040 --> 1:22:07.800 to the fact that it's not dead forever, and have 1:22:07.960 --> 1:22:12.080 confidence that we can be a part of that. So 1:22:13.200 --> 1:22:16.240 I my job is to surround myself with people with 1:22:16.320 --> 1:22:22.679 impeccable taste. I have an opinion. Um, my opinion is strong, 1:22:24.080 --> 1:22:26.679 and we all fight and the best Remember those fights 1:22:26.680 --> 1:22:28.639 he used to have? I remember them so finally, when 1:22:28.640 --> 1:22:31.160 I used to have all my buddies over, usually to 1:22:31.200 --> 1:22:33.599 our living room or sometimes in my bedroom, and we'd 1:22:33.760 --> 1:22:36.040 all bring records and we'd play it, and we'd play 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:38.719 Talking Heads of the Police, and we'd fight over which 1:22:38.760 --> 1:22:41.040 one was best. That track sucks, No, you're wrong, this 1:22:41.160 --> 1:22:44.240 track is huge? What's wrong with you? Elvis Costello's I mean, 1:22:44.880 --> 1:22:47.840 I love those fights because they weren't fights, weren't batting 1:22:47.880 --> 1:22:49.960 each other up. We were being passionate. We loved it 1:22:50.120 --> 1:22:52.720 so much. I was allowed to love one band more 1:22:52.760 --> 1:22:56.400 than you and vice versa. I love those conversations we 1:22:56.439 --> 1:23:00.280 have at work. I actually encourage them once a while. 1:23:00.320 --> 1:23:02.840 I'll stick my neck out and go, you know, I 1:23:02.920 --> 1:23:05.360 like Coldplay, but I don't know if Coldplay is really 1:23:05.439 --> 1:23:07.720 for him. You know, an eighteen year old play. You 1:23:07.720 --> 1:23:10.559 know who's listening, Who's going to see Coldplay right now? 1:23:10.920 --> 1:23:14.479 I'm not denying their talent. I'm not denying how huge 1:23:14.520 --> 1:23:19.760 they are, you know, but um, maybe there's some other 1:23:19.880 --> 1:23:23.880 choices we should make. Maybe we should invest in a 1:23:23.960 --> 1:23:26.799 lot of artists that people have yet to hear from. 1:23:26.840 --> 1:23:30.880 Because if I did a focus group today for FIFA 1:23:31.000 --> 1:23:36.800 twenty four, people would tell me to put in the 1:23:36.800 --> 1:23:40.559 bands from last year because they love them so much. 1:23:40.600 --> 1:23:43.840 But last year they hadn't heard of them yet. So, 1:23:43.880 --> 1:23:47.599 as taste makers, and I say that with humility, as 1:23:47.640 --> 1:23:50.519 people with real estate, where we need to be highly 1:23:50.560 --> 1:23:54.479 responsible for what gets into that real estate, musically speaking, 1:23:55.160 --> 1:23:58.360 we better be damn good. I don't expect you to 1:23:58.479 --> 1:24:01.480 love every one of the hundred songs. That would be impossible. 1:24:01.840 --> 1:24:03.880 But if you actually love a couple and they change 1:24:03.880 --> 1:24:06.519 your life, and you can look back and say, oh 1:24:06.560 --> 1:24:08.640 my god, the first time I heard this was an 1:24:08.760 --> 1:24:12.040 NHL two thousand and seven to change my life, and 1:24:12.080 --> 1:24:16.880 you're talking about that in two that's a huge, huge 1:24:16.920 --> 1:24:20.439 positive thing we've we've created. So we spend a year 1:24:20.840 --> 1:24:25.240 and we look at every possible angle. Where is music going, 1:24:25.360 --> 1:24:27.920 where is it not going? You know, how much do 1:24:27.960 --> 1:24:30.120 we invest in this genre? How much do we invest 1:24:30.160 --> 1:24:32.800 in I can't. I can't. I learned the hard way. 1:24:34.000 --> 1:24:36.360 For a couple of years, I would spread the genres 1:24:36.360 --> 1:24:38.840 out in Madden Football because I would go to a 1:24:38.920 --> 1:24:41.400 Dallas Cowboys game and they would play country. And then 1:24:41.439 --> 1:24:43.360 I'd go to a New York Giants game and they 1:24:43.400 --> 1:24:46.120 would play hypothetically jay Z. And I'd go to the 1:24:46.240 --> 1:24:48.960 NFL and they'd say we are nine and ninety were 1:24:49.000 --> 1:24:53.000 everything for everybody. And then I realized it's impossible. If 1:24:53.080 --> 1:24:56.360 you think you're everything for everybody, then you're nothing to everybody. 1:24:56.600 --> 1:24:59.120 You have to make a choice, you have to put 1:24:59.200 --> 1:25:01.599 your you know, whats on the line. You have to say, 1:25:01.680 --> 1:25:04.160 this is what we're gonna sound like, this is the tone, 1:25:04.960 --> 1:25:07.040 these are the limits to where we're gonna go. These 1:25:07.040 --> 1:25:09.439 are the artists we're going to invest in in this year, 1:25:10.120 --> 1:25:13.960 and hopefully it'll stick. And once you engage the audience 1:25:14.000 --> 1:25:18.479 year after year, they have higher and higher expectations. So yeah, 1:25:18.600 --> 1:25:22.479 I went from Blake Shelton five years ago in Madden 1:25:22.520 --> 1:25:28.920 Football to Kendrick lamar Uh to the baby before he 1:25:28.960 --> 1:25:32.400 did what he did, and now we're all hip hop 1:25:33.400 --> 1:25:36.439 because and not just hip hop. Like, let's take a 1:25:36.439 --> 1:25:38.360 look at the charts. As I said, who are the 1:25:38.560 --> 1:25:43.639 next stars? Who's change? We hired you know, um hit 1:25:43.680 --> 1:25:46.679 Boy to do the score. There's a rock star turning 1:25:46.720 --> 1:25:49.280 into a composer. He did an incredible job this year. 1:25:50.720 --> 1:25:52.680 The players, and I don't mean our players, I mean 1:25:52.680 --> 1:25:56.720 the NFL players. They listen to our soundtrack. I don't 1:25:56.760 --> 1:26:00.280 care about the guys in the Budweiser stand, the people 1:26:00.360 --> 1:26:01.960 my age who go in there and they want to 1:26:01.960 --> 1:26:04.760 hear more Bong Jovi in a football game. I don't care. 1:26:05.760 --> 1:26:07.760 I care about what the players in the field listened to. 1:26:07.840 --> 1:26:12.040 In the locker room. At the Titans games we used 1:26:12.080 --> 1:26:14.439 to have I've been in a game this year yet, 1:26:14.439 --> 1:26:18.719 but we used to have the Madden twenty when everybody 1:26:18.800 --> 1:26:23.320 was walking into the stadium, not into the suits, but 1:26:23.400 --> 1:26:26.240 into the regular seats with their kids. They would play 1:26:26.280 --> 1:26:28.879 all the music from Madden that year in the stands 1:26:30.200 --> 1:26:33.760 and the NFL did a focus group a test and 1:26:33.760 --> 1:26:36.479 they said it tested through the roof, and I said, 1:26:36.479 --> 1:26:38.880 that's amazing. Used to tell me that only NFL fans 1:26:38.960 --> 1:26:40.880 want to hear. All they want to hear is classic rock, 1:26:41.479 --> 1:26:43.280 and they said, yeah, those are the people in the sweets. 1:26:44.360 --> 1:26:47.679 But we were talking like kids and they were freaking out, 1:26:48.960 --> 1:26:50.439 and I said, do you know how easy it is? 1:26:50.479 --> 1:26:53.640 Look how easy that is. You're making yourself relevant just 1:26:53.680 --> 1:26:57.439 by the association. All those kids play Madden. We can't 1:26:57.439 --> 1:27:02.240 deny it. They play Madden. The players obviously play Madden. 1:27:03.439 --> 1:27:07.000 That's the soundtrack that they hear for months. It's embedded 1:27:07.040 --> 1:27:10.400 in their brains. They walk into a football stadium, maybe 1:27:10.400 --> 1:27:12.040 it's the first time they've ever gone to see a 1:27:12.040 --> 1:27:15.080 live sporting event, and the first thing they hear is 1:27:15.120 --> 1:27:20.880 that it's credible. So, um, long winded way, I hope 1:27:20.880 --> 1:27:25.160 I answered the question. Maybe I didn't. I apologize, but um, 1:27:25.240 --> 1:27:30.639 it's from now, um through the fall through January, all 1:27:30.680 --> 1:27:33.880 we're doing is talking about how we did, what we did, 1:27:34.000 --> 1:27:36.360 what we got right, what we got wrong. What is 1:27:36.400 --> 1:27:39.080 the next year to look like? Genre wise? We're gonna 1:27:39.120 --> 1:27:41.240 have a lot of conversations about hip hop. Where is 1:27:41.280 --> 1:27:45.639 hip hop going? What's the next underground of hip hop? 1:27:46.560 --> 1:27:51.120 We're gonna talk a lot about Latin music, We're gonna 1:27:51.160 --> 1:27:55.200 talk a lot about rock and roll, and we're gonna 1:27:55.200 --> 1:27:57.439 make some decisions based on next year. That doesn't mean 1:27:57.880 --> 1:28:01.120 Madden's gonna necessarily sound. It's not gonna become I'm not 1:28:01.160 --> 1:28:02.960 telling you it's gonna be all rock and roll next year. 1:28:03.880 --> 1:28:07.200 But we really have to look at, Okay, fifteen and 1:28:07.200 --> 1:28:09.320 eighteen year olds, this is what they listened to this year. 1:28:09.320 --> 1:28:11.280 We're going to actually hopefully be a part of shaping 1:28:11.320 --> 1:28:14.800 their musical taste for the next year. Now, what about 1:28:14.840 --> 1:28:17.800 next year's fifteen year old? What does that look like? 1:28:17.840 --> 1:28:21.160 In cases like FIFA, what does that look like? In 1:28:21.200 --> 1:28:26.799 Italy and the UK and Argentina and the US and Japan. 1:28:27.760 --> 1:28:34.240 We do not localize the music. We localize games for language, 1:28:35.200 --> 1:28:37.400 but we do not localize the music. So when an 1:28:37.520 --> 1:28:41.840 artist gets into FIFA, everybody in the world heard, you 1:28:41.880 --> 1:28:44.240 know Lewis the child. I just love this because you 1:28:44.280 --> 1:28:46.439 know this is years ago, maybe eight years ago, six 1:28:46.520 --> 1:28:50.640 years ago. Um, I think I don't quote me on 1:28:50.720 --> 1:28:55.160 the number, but on Spotify, it was like seven thousand streams, 1:28:55.720 --> 1:29:00.880 and then we announced that year the soundtrack list and 1:29:00.960 --> 1:29:02.840 Louis the Child's name was on it and went to 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:06.200 a million in twenty four hours just from a list. 1:29:06.240 --> 1:29:13.360 Nobody had heard the song yet, So we really need 1:29:13.400 --> 1:29:16.160 to get it right. And I take that responsibility, and 1:29:16.160 --> 1:29:21.519 that responsibility it doesn't always reflect my personal taste, you know, 1:29:22.120 --> 1:29:24.640 I just I think I have pretty good taste. But 1:29:24.720 --> 1:29:27.360 I need to think about that player, that player around 1:29:27.400 --> 1:29:31.839 the world who's going to learn something new musically speaking 1:29:31.840 --> 1:29:35.960 for the first time. So we need to be impeccable 1:29:36.040 --> 1:29:44.320 in our people culturally, clem clairvoyant and understand trends. And 1:29:44.360 --> 1:29:47.280 I need to make sure I'm surrounded by people always 1:29:48.080 --> 1:29:50.200 that understand that. And that goes back to the beginning 1:29:50.200 --> 1:29:52.240 of this. Why I don't let anybody listen to the radio. 1:29:53.040 --> 1:29:55.120 I don't want to hear from anybody. It's number one 1:29:55.160 --> 1:29:57.759 on Billboard, it's number one, and my book cares anymore. 1:29:58.000 --> 1:30:01.720 Welcome back to I'm not a nostalgic guy, Bob. I 1:30:02.000 --> 1:30:06.040 don't live in the past. I've you know, it's nice, 1:30:06.439 --> 1:30:10.200 you know, once a year to listen to a Springsteen record, 1:30:10.240 --> 1:30:13.360 and remember high school, but it's pretty meaningless to me 1:30:13.560 --> 1:30:17.679 in my life. I really want to I really want 1:30:17.720 --> 1:30:20.320 to make sure that you know, I really get excited 1:30:20.320 --> 1:30:24.320 about what music can do to people going forward, and 1:30:24.400 --> 1:30:27.320 I think, um, we have the real estate to help 1:30:27.960 --> 1:30:30.960 with that. Okay, So let's just you've gone through the 1:30:31.000 --> 1:30:34.879 process with your team of what you want the sound 1:30:35.080 --> 1:30:39.880 to sound like. We know there's a very aggressive business. 1:30:40.280 --> 1:30:44.080 There are people who are pitching you, etcetera. Once you've 1:30:44.120 --> 1:30:47.880 locked in what the music should sound like, what are 1:30:47.920 --> 1:30:50.320 the steps? Do you go to the usual suspects? Do 1:30:50.320 --> 1:30:53.599 you not contact anybody and ultimately is in the most 1:30:53.640 --> 1:30:56.679 favored nations? Or do you pay more for one track 1:30:56.720 --> 1:30:59.160 as opposed to another. I mean, the people that know 1:30:59.280 --> 1:31:01.360 that we're looking at them are obviously the artists and 1:31:01.400 --> 1:31:05.960 the labels and the publishers. I get great joy, um, 1:31:06.040 --> 1:31:09.639 humbly speaking, when uh, we put in a license request 1:31:09.680 --> 1:31:12.960 to a label, uh and they're looking it up and 1:31:13.000 --> 1:31:15.800 they say, we don't have this song yet in our system. 1:31:15.840 --> 1:31:17.559 I love that the band got it to us so 1:31:17.640 --> 1:31:19.960 early that they didn't hand it into the label yet. 1:31:20.240 --> 1:31:23.479 I get tremendous joy out of that because we're so 1:31:23.920 --> 1:31:28.200 freaking early, um, and we all have to be really quiet, 1:31:28.680 --> 1:31:32.559 and even the artists, nobody's really broken that code of 1:31:32.600 --> 1:31:35.600 silence as far as I remember for years. You know, 1:31:35.680 --> 1:31:37.760 you'll know in July. If you're going to make it 1:31:37.760 --> 1:31:40.080 in a FEEFA that comes out in September, you'll know 1:31:40.160 --> 1:31:43.679 in July. And we they're all on board with making 1:31:43.720 --> 1:31:45.960 sure that nothing gets said in social media and it 1:31:46.040 --> 1:31:50.840 stays quiet because they're a part of our launch. Uh M, 1:31:50.840 --> 1:31:53.599 A fan is not typical, you know, M fan. There 1:31:53.640 --> 1:31:57.400 there's certain licenses that are have valued more than others. 1:31:57.520 --> 1:32:01.320 You know, if I'm going to license uh um, a 1:32:01.360 --> 1:32:03.880 big artist who has a new material that we think 1:32:03.960 --> 1:32:06.280 is going to blow up, and the value of that 1:32:06.439 --> 1:32:09.839 is more than an artist that's putting out their first single. 1:32:10.000 --> 1:32:13.280 You know, I think everybody pretty much agrees with that. 1:32:13.439 --> 1:32:16.360 I mean, um, I'm willing to pay if I support 1:32:16.400 --> 1:32:18.000 a band this year and it blows up and next 1:32:18.080 --> 1:32:20.240 year I want to put their single from their next album, 1:32:20.240 --> 1:32:22.120 I'm certainly prepared to pay more for it because they 1:32:22.120 --> 1:32:25.719 got bigger. Only once, by the way, in my twenty 1:32:25.800 --> 1:32:28.759 years did I get was I told by a person 1:32:28.800 --> 1:32:31.880 in a label licensing department on a band that had 1:32:31.960 --> 1:32:34.479 yet to put out even a record that I was 1:32:34.560 --> 1:32:37.240 offering too little because it was going to be a hit. 1:32:37.400 --> 1:32:39.840 I said, well, sorry, then I'll pass because I'm not 1:32:39.880 --> 1:32:46.439 gonna pay you on futures. Um. But um, but let's 1:32:46.439 --> 1:32:49.439 do you watch it? How do you actually find it? 1:32:49.760 --> 1:32:53.160 Do you do it yourself? Do you have regular contacts? 1:32:53.479 --> 1:32:57.519 Are you inundated with you know, whether it be tracks, text, 1:32:57.640 --> 1:33:03.080 whatever people want to be in uh, inundated? Yes, Um, 1:33:03.120 --> 1:33:08.280 but that sometimes isn't what necessarily works. I think it 1:33:08.400 --> 1:33:12.559 is us being proactive, us getting out there. Um. Sabella 1:33:12.680 --> 1:33:15.320 my team at the beginning of every year goes to Europe. 1:33:15.720 --> 1:33:19.040 She literally goes to everyone in her network, which is 1:33:19.080 --> 1:33:22.200 pretty massive. What bands are going in the studio? When 1:33:22.240 --> 1:33:24.160 can I get in the studio to hear the tracks 1:33:24.320 --> 1:33:26.599 they haven't recorded yet? Can I come to the studio 1:33:26.600 --> 1:33:29.040 and hear the demos? You know, I think we are 1:33:29.120 --> 1:33:32.200 out there. We're out there like crazy. Certainly you know, 1:33:32.280 --> 1:33:35.439 the pandemic stop that, let's get out there. It made 1:33:35.479 --> 1:33:38.040 it more challenging, so we had to rely on hopefully 1:33:38.080 --> 1:33:41.760 security of you know, it being sent to us. Um. 1:33:41.800 --> 1:33:44.439 But for the most part, we're out there. We don't 1:33:44.479 --> 1:33:46.160 wait for it to come to us. If I waited 1:33:46.200 --> 1:33:47.680 half the time for it to come to us, it 1:33:47.720 --> 1:33:50.280 would be in shrink wrapping and radio on radio stations 1:33:50.720 --> 1:33:55.360 desks already. You know. Um, we need to be very proactive. 1:33:55.400 --> 1:33:58.559 I'm sure. Um, if we sat down with my team 1:33:59.000 --> 1:34:00.960 for the most art for the most part, they could 1:34:00.960 --> 1:34:05.839 tell you every artist that's writing and hoping and planning 1:34:05.920 --> 1:34:07.719 to put a record out in the next year or two. 1:34:08.080 --> 1:34:10.760 There are exceptions, of course, I'm not saying we know 1:34:10.840 --> 1:34:14.360 of you know, three million, you know, But where the trendsetters? 1:34:14.400 --> 1:34:17.680 Who's the next generation of artists that we've been following? 1:34:17.720 --> 1:34:20.720 Where they at? That's our responsibilities. I have a lead 1:34:20.800 --> 1:34:25.240 music supervisor, Sabel Pettis. She's amazing. She's been with me 1:34:25.320 --> 1:34:27.160 for twenty years. She comes from a and R at 1:34:27.520 --> 1:34:30.960 Warners before that, and her job, her job is a 1:34:31.080 --> 1:34:34.360 strictly creative job. Where's every band at? Who do you 1:34:34.400 --> 1:34:37.479 believe in? Where are the trends? Where they are they 1:34:37.520 --> 1:34:39.599 writing right now? Have you heard it? Have you gotten 1:34:39.640 --> 1:34:41.559 on a plane to the studio where they will play 1:34:41.560 --> 1:34:44.680 it for her? You know, I have many many, um, 1:34:45.280 --> 1:34:48.559 fond memories of bands sitting down with a guitar or 1:34:48.640 --> 1:34:50.559 something and saying, this is what the song is. We 1:34:50.640 --> 1:34:53.160 just wrote this, what do you think. My favorite story, 1:34:53.200 --> 1:34:55.200 which dates me for a second, is when the guys 1:34:55.240 --> 1:34:58.360 at Green Day were in um Ocean Way in l 1:34:58.400 --> 1:35:01.400 A and UH asked us to come out to Ocean 1:35:01.400 --> 1:35:04.639 Way and they played us American Idiot and they said, 1:35:04.680 --> 1:35:07.320 we're about to go in and record it. Rob Cavallo 1:35:07.439 --> 1:35:10.120 was there and UH, this, when do we need to 1:35:10.120 --> 1:35:12.479 finish it by to get it in Madden, and I went, oh, man, 1:35:12.520 --> 1:35:20.200 we have arrived and so um do we miss some things? Yes? 1:35:21.160 --> 1:35:24.280 But the beauty of the medium that I work in 1:35:24.840 --> 1:35:26.840 is that if something comes, if it's not finished by 1:35:26.840 --> 1:35:30.280 the time we lock, I can add it to downloadable content. 1:35:30.320 --> 1:35:32.400 In a month or two, I can always add it. 1:35:33.000 --> 1:35:35.640 I can refresh it. As a matter of fact, we 1:35:35.760 --> 1:35:39.439 just did you know the Ultimate FIFA Soundtrack. That's we 1:35:39.520 --> 1:35:41.560 had a narrow down to thirty or forty songs of 1:35:41.640 --> 1:35:44.639 the best songs to come from FIFA over the last 1:35:44.680 --> 1:35:47.920 twenty years. We took a lot, We worked with Spotify, 1:35:48.040 --> 1:35:51.200 we looked at playlists, we talked to gamers, and we 1:35:51.280 --> 1:35:54.479 came up with that playlist. It's just a list of songs, 1:35:55.160 --> 1:35:58.320 but the fanaticism of getting in that on that list 1:35:58.600 --> 1:36:02.040 was mind blowing to me. But that didn't ship with 1:36:02.080 --> 1:36:05.200 the game. That ship this week when we give you 1:36:05.240 --> 1:36:08.760 a free downloadable World Cup portion of the game, and 1:36:08.800 --> 1:36:12.280 now you get thirty or forty new songs, including Casabian, 1:36:12.320 --> 1:36:15.960 including Blur song number two, which is now forever tied 1:36:15.960 --> 1:36:19.640 to the game of soccer. Um uh, so on and 1:36:19.680 --> 1:36:23.240 so on each The list is long, but so we 1:36:23.280 --> 1:36:26.320 can always update, We can always take things out if 1:36:26.320 --> 1:36:28.640 we don't believe in something, but more importantly, we can 1:36:28.680 --> 1:36:33.160 always add, which we do. Okay, this is the music 1:36:33.240 --> 1:36:36.479 business in general. People are on neither one side or 1:36:36.520 --> 1:36:40.240 the other there the business or their creators. You talk 1:36:40.320 --> 1:36:43.919 about writing cues, Tell us about that in your own 1:36:44.080 --> 1:36:53.280 musical creativity, writing cues um as in scores. Yes, okay, um, Well, 1:36:53.760 --> 1:36:57.519 you know I when I was I know you didn't 1:36:57.520 --> 1:36:59.360 ask me, but I'm gonna answer it this way. When 1:36:59.360 --> 1:37:03.840 I was for my mom put a guitar in my 1:37:03.880 --> 1:37:06.479 hand because I asked for it. Uh. And when I 1:37:06.520 --> 1:37:10.040 was seven, I guess she saw me doing some crazy 1:37:10.120 --> 1:37:13.439 things to some crazy songs. I would want to take 1:37:13.479 --> 1:37:17.160 the horn parts from Chicago c t A. At the time, 1:37:17.200 --> 1:37:20.760 as you recall and rewrite them. I thought Terry cath 1:37:20.880 --> 1:37:23.160 was the greatest guitar player in her But I wanted 1:37:23.200 --> 1:37:26.120 to rewrite Robert Lamb's parts. I wanted to rewrite all 1:37:26.160 --> 1:37:29.360 of this stuff. I was seven. Probably sucked what I 1:37:29.360 --> 1:37:32.080 was rewriting, but I wanted to do it. So she 1:37:32.200 --> 1:37:34.960 used to put me on a bus to Port Authority 1:37:35.000 --> 1:37:39.840 at seven, by myself on the bus, sometimes by the way, 1:37:39.840 --> 1:37:41.560 on a side. And it was Mark Shaman, who was 1:37:41.560 --> 1:37:43.640 a couple of years older than me, who inevitably went 1:37:43.680 --> 1:37:47.479 on to be becoming a massive composer and Broadway writer. 1:37:47.680 --> 1:37:51.320 But we were going, we've we we've since reconnected. And um, 1:37:51.400 --> 1:37:54.240 I used to go to Carnegie Hall and study with 1:37:54.280 --> 1:37:57.000 this guy who looked ancient to me. He actually was 1:37:57.080 --> 1:38:00.880 like and I was seven to me, he could have 1:38:00.920 --> 1:38:05.960 been three thousand, and he was so old that he 1:38:06.080 --> 1:38:09.280 was the composer to the one of the first silent 1:38:09.360 --> 1:38:13.599 films with score, called The Nook of the North Okay Classic. 1:38:15.240 --> 1:38:19.519 And um, he taught me, at seven, nine, ten years old, 1:38:20.000 --> 1:38:23.600 how to rewrite these cues and how to begin to 1:38:23.640 --> 1:38:27.200 write for picture. What does this scene looks like? The 1:38:27.200 --> 1:38:30.240 scene looks like this. The actors are doing this, the 1:38:30.280 --> 1:38:35.080 script does this? Where does silence serve? Where does music serve? 1:38:35.160 --> 1:38:38.320 Even better? How do you create the emotion and the 1:38:38.360 --> 1:38:42.440 person in the chair in the theater? What are your options? 1:38:42.800 --> 1:38:47.559 What is the orchestration, the instrumentation. It was unbelievable to 1:38:47.600 --> 1:38:54.320 me that you could control the emotional experience with one 1:38:54.360 --> 1:39:00.679 minute of music. And I also learned when I lied 1:39:00.720 --> 1:39:04.960 to my Jewish grandmother at seventeen, and she said, hey, 1:39:04.960 --> 1:39:07.559 that's a nice hobby you have, but in our family 1:39:08.479 --> 1:39:11.000 the choices. You can become a doctor, you can become 1:39:11.040 --> 1:39:14.200 a lawyer, or god forbid, a dentist. That was a quote, 1:39:14.200 --> 1:39:17.760 and I felt bad because my dad was a dentist. Um. 1:39:17.800 --> 1:39:21.360 I lied, and I went to school to study music. Um. 1:39:21.400 --> 1:39:24.400 But the one thing I learned was I'm good, but 1:39:24.439 --> 1:39:26.519 I'm much better if I hire other people to do it. 1:39:28.000 --> 1:39:30.840 I can contribute, but I'm gonna hire Hans Zimmer to 1:39:30.880 --> 1:39:32.880 write it, but I have enough knowledge to be able 1:39:32.920 --> 1:39:39.679 to communicate with him on musicians terms. So to write 1:39:39.680 --> 1:39:45.000 a queue, and to write a queue in an interactive format, 1:39:45.360 --> 1:39:48.280 you're not talking about what's happening on the screen. You're 1:39:48.320 --> 1:39:52.759 talking about all of the possibilities. Are you going left? 1:39:52.880 --> 1:39:55.439 Are you going right? Are you running and falling under 1:39:55.479 --> 1:39:58.080 the log and the bad guy gets you, or you 1:39:58.160 --> 1:40:00.880 jumping over the log and you made it or the 1:40:00.920 --> 1:40:06.080 other ten thousand or ten million possibilities? How are you 1:40:06.120 --> 1:40:09.720 writing that in one minute? What is the objective of 1:40:09.760 --> 1:40:12.880 the music? Is the is the objective to sit above 1:40:13.479 --> 1:40:16.759 and to have a you know, as I mentioned before, 1:40:16.840 --> 1:40:20.000 we won the war, so bring on the timpany that 1:40:20.080 --> 1:40:22.760 sits above it? Or is to be so subtle that 1:40:22.800 --> 1:40:25.920 you don't even know the music is there. It's there, 1:40:26.000 --> 1:40:29.840 but it's you're two in the scene. So the but 1:40:29.880 --> 1:40:37.000 you're feeling anger or anxiety or fear or joy, and 1:40:37.040 --> 1:40:39.479 then you probably don't even realize what's doing. That is 1:40:39.520 --> 1:40:43.559 not what's happening on the screen. It's when that music 1:40:43.560 --> 1:40:46.400 gets in your in your soul. Because I don't believe 1:40:46.439 --> 1:40:49.000 that music is meant to be or written to be heard. 1:40:49.040 --> 1:40:51.160 I believe music is written and meant to be felt. 1:40:53.400 --> 1:40:59.160 So a composer, if guided well and as a collaborative person, 1:41:00.240 --> 1:41:04.720 can find that emotion and not even rely what's going 1:41:04.760 --> 1:41:07.439 on in the screen. What happens if you get up 1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:09.360 to go to the bathroom and the screen, but you 1:41:09.400 --> 1:41:12.960 hear the music, you're still feeling, oh my god, I 1:41:12.960 --> 1:41:15.280 gotta get back, I gotta get back, I gotta get 1:41:15.320 --> 1:41:18.120 back to the couch. What's going on the screen is 1:41:18.160 --> 1:41:21.479 not what's doing that. What's going on in your ear, 1:41:21.560 --> 1:41:26.320 to your heart, your soul. So doing that in one 1:41:26.360 --> 1:41:30.760 minute or sometimes twenty second moments is incredibly challenging. Now, 1:41:30.760 --> 1:41:34.160 the beauty of gaming is that you're not writing one 1:41:34.200 --> 1:41:39.000 continuous queue. You're writing pieces that technology can allow it 1:41:39.080 --> 1:41:43.600 to go left or right. So if you're running in 1:41:43.640 --> 1:41:46.479 a horror film running and you trip over the log, 1:41:47.080 --> 1:41:49.760 the trigger in the technology is triggering that music to 1:41:49.800 --> 1:41:52.040 do one thing. But if you make it over the log, 1:41:52.479 --> 1:41:54.240 it knows you did it. So now the music is 1:41:54.280 --> 1:41:58.080 doing something else. So it really is interactive with your experience. 1:41:58.320 --> 1:42:02.920 It's not tethered to that screen. Um, and it's pretty. 1:42:03.120 --> 1:42:08.000 And those are just one example. You know, years ago, 1:42:08.400 --> 1:42:10.760 fifteen years ago, maybe we did the Lord of the 1:42:10.840 --> 1:42:13.880 Rings games and I thought, you know, we were going 1:42:13.960 --> 1:42:16.920 to hire a composer and I could use the music 1:42:17.000 --> 1:42:21.439 from the films, which uh, we did. Um, but I 1:42:21.479 --> 1:42:23.920 had a moment where I wanted to hire Jimmy Page. 1:42:25.080 --> 1:42:28.439 I thought, anybody who listens to Zeppelin like me, knows 1:42:28.760 --> 1:42:32.400 that Lord of the Rings was a part of this mindset. Okay, 1:42:32.680 --> 1:42:35.639 I mean it was there. And if you ask any 1:42:35.640 --> 1:42:37.960 of guys in Laura in in Zeppelin, they'll tell you 1:42:38.200 --> 1:42:41.760 Lord of the Rings right, the books in particular, you know, 1:42:41.760 --> 1:42:45.200 because it's previous to the films. And so I reached 1:42:45.240 --> 1:42:48.479 out at the time to David Dorne. I know you 1:42:48.640 --> 1:42:53.479 probably know, Um, we understand by the way runs maps 1:42:53.560 --> 1:42:57.840 now for Apples. Yes, he's in Maps. Yeah, I need 1:42:57.880 --> 1:42:59.639 to call him and tell him I'm lost. I think 1:42:59.680 --> 1:43:02.640 I just need to have that moment with him. Um. 1:43:02.680 --> 1:43:04.799 But anyway, I reached out to him, and everybody believed. 1:43:04.840 --> 1:43:07.280 Everybody agreed. I said, let me license a bunch of 1:43:07.360 --> 1:43:10.679 Zeppelin tunes and have Jimmy right, that's Lord of the Rings. 1:43:10.840 --> 1:43:13.200 That's how the next generation should should learn Lord of 1:43:13.240 --> 1:43:16.000 the Rings. So of course we went to the lawyers, 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:20.320 whoever they may have been, and they said, well, with 1:43:20.400 --> 1:43:23.080 the tunes, with the Zeppelin tunes, we didn't even get 1:43:23.080 --> 1:43:27.120 to money. But like we realize it has to mix 1:43:27.160 --> 1:43:31.320 itself during game play, so we need to hear the possibilities, 1:43:31.360 --> 1:43:34.040 like what are the three or four ten mixes that 1:43:34.120 --> 1:43:36.960 the engine is going to create? And I said, I 1:43:37.040 --> 1:43:41.360 can't play you that because it would be millions. I 1:43:41.400 --> 1:43:44.160 don't know what the computer you know that, sorry, the 1:43:44.160 --> 1:43:47.720 technology might change, you know, the base might go here 1:43:47.760 --> 1:43:50.920 and Jimmy Page's guitar Michael here, and Robert Plant's voice 1:43:51.000 --> 1:43:53.080 might soar and stay in a note. I don't know. 1:43:53.240 --> 1:43:56.160 It depends what the players doing. And at the time 1:43:56.200 --> 1:43:58.240 they couldn't. I didn't do the deal. They couldn't wrap 1:43:58.280 --> 1:44:00.800 their heads around it. I couldn't get approval on every 1:44:00.800 --> 1:44:04.840 single mix because the number was infinity. I still think 1:44:04.840 --> 1:44:07.040 it's the most badass idea and I wish I could 1:44:07.080 --> 1:44:11.080 still do it, you know. Um. So that's to me 1:44:11.160 --> 1:44:16.400 about writing a queue. It's um. It's not writing something 1:44:16.400 --> 1:44:20.760 to be listened to like a record many times, it's 1:44:20.760 --> 1:44:26.400 something to be written to be felt. And if you 1:44:26.479 --> 1:44:29.120 don't understand that, and I guarantee you knowing you you do. 1:44:29.920 --> 1:44:33.840 But if you don't understand that, think about, for instance, 1:44:34.280 --> 1:44:37.639 what John Williams Scores and Star Wars did to all 1:44:37.720 --> 1:44:42.040 of us back in the seventies. Think about how we felt. 1:44:42.720 --> 1:44:46.280 Think about when we were soaring into the world of 1:44:46.360 --> 1:44:51.639 Star Wars and that very Stravinsky classical type of score, 1:44:52.400 --> 1:44:55.240 which was not what we were listening to on w 1:44:55.439 --> 1:44:58.240 an E W where I was from, we were listening, 1:44:58.240 --> 1:45:01.439 we were listening to rock music. But that score made 1:45:01.439 --> 1:45:04.880 me feel a certain way. It made me feel my 1:45:05.040 --> 1:45:09.080 chest puffed out. I felt bigger than life. I didn't 1:45:09.120 --> 1:45:11.240 listen to it like I listened to a pop song 1:45:11.360 --> 1:45:15.240 and w ABC in New York that was a different experience. 1:45:16.520 --> 1:45:20.479 I listened to it like with confidence. That's what we 1:45:20.560 --> 1:45:32.000 have to get. Okay, you depict a very full life. 1:45:32.080 --> 1:45:35.400 We're talking to you, just one composer every day and 1:45:35.439 --> 1:45:39.839 you have multiple games. You're talking about travel. What degree 1:45:39.920 --> 1:45:44.599 did this contribute to your divorce? Wow? What an amazing question, 1:45:45.120 --> 1:45:48.800 all of it, all of it. Listen, I married the 1:45:48.840 --> 1:45:50.640 wrong person, and I want my kids to hear me 1:45:50.680 --> 1:45:53.040 say that, because that would hurt them. But that didn't help. 1:45:53.640 --> 1:45:57.280 But you know, I ended up marrying this job, and 1:45:57.320 --> 1:46:00.920 I love this job and I have no regrets about that. 1:46:01.600 --> 1:46:04.080 I devoted my life to this job because I believed 1:46:04.120 --> 1:46:06.840 in it. I didn't do that when I worked at 1:46:06.880 --> 1:46:11.720 Capitol Records. The Andy Slater days of Capitol Records were 1:46:11.760 --> 1:46:17.559 not worth marrying, but being in the next being a 1:46:17.600 --> 1:46:22.200 part of the evolution of entertainment and knowing I could 1:46:22.400 --> 1:46:26.040 use that real estate to do what I always like 1:46:26.120 --> 1:46:29.320 to do since I was fourteen years old, play really 1:46:29.320 --> 1:46:31.439 cool ship for a lot of people and saying, what 1:46:31.479 --> 1:46:34.800 do you think I'll never forget playing Houses of the 1:46:34.880 --> 1:46:38.759 Holy from a next door neighbor. Holy crap, are you kidding? 1:46:38.800 --> 1:46:42.320 Playing again? I still do that. My wife, I'm remarried, 1:46:42.320 --> 1:46:44.400 always says, my god, you act like a fourteen year old, 1:46:44.400 --> 1:46:45.720 and I go, yeah, And I've been able to make 1:46:45.720 --> 1:46:48.800 a living out of that. I don't think she means 1:46:48.800 --> 1:46:50.719 that when she says that, I think she means it differently, 1:46:50.840 --> 1:46:54.280 is my point. But you know it contributed to my divorce. 1:46:54.280 --> 1:46:56.599 I'm not going to avoid your question. It contributed to it. 1:46:56.800 --> 1:47:00.680 I traveled a lot. I still do um and I 1:47:00.720 --> 1:47:03.680 missed a lot, and I would try to come home 1:47:03.720 --> 1:47:05.880 a lot. I would go to London to work and 1:47:05.920 --> 1:47:07.799 then come home in the weekend to see my son's 1:47:07.800 --> 1:47:10.439 baseball game, and then go back the next day to London. 1:47:11.640 --> 1:47:14.160 But you can't you can't do that forever, so it 1:47:14.240 --> 1:47:22.480 didn't contribute to my divorce significantly. Um and um, it's okay, 1:47:22.720 --> 1:47:27.679 and your present wife accepts that your job is number one. Well, 1:47:28.439 --> 1:47:30.880 my present wife. From the first day I met her, 1:47:30.920 --> 1:47:32.920 I found out that Zeppelin was her favorite band of 1:47:32.920 --> 1:47:37.320 all time, so I was ten steps ahead. UM uh yeah, 1:47:37.400 --> 1:47:39.760 of course, you know, of course, and we listen, we're 1:47:39.800 --> 1:47:43.639 adults now, I what at tangent I'm about to go on. 1:47:43.880 --> 1:47:47.280 I don't understand why people get married now that I'm 1:47:47.320 --> 1:47:50.519 an adult in their twenties and early thirties. I do 1:47:50.600 --> 1:47:52.880 not believe in it. I believe the best time to 1:47:52.920 --> 1:47:55.400 get married, if you do get married, is as an adult. 1:47:55.840 --> 1:47:59.000 Get married in your forties, when you're grounded, when you 1:47:59.040 --> 1:48:02.120 know what your life is, when the expectations of each 1:48:02.120 --> 1:48:06.400 other are set. You know. Um, my growth took me 1:48:06.479 --> 1:48:09.720 one way and my ex wife's growth took her another way. 1:48:09.800 --> 1:48:12.400 So I am very fortunate that I found the most 1:48:12.439 --> 1:48:17.160 amazing person on earth who loves what I do, appreciates 1:48:17.200 --> 1:48:20.080 what I do, by the way, and all my friends 1:48:20.120 --> 1:48:23.720 like Hans Zimmer and they love her. I don't hold 1:48:23.760 --> 1:48:26.080 her back from that. She's a part of it. She 1:48:26.160 --> 1:48:28.360 comes to the studio all the time, pops in. My God, 1:48:28.400 --> 1:48:30.719 I can't get her away from half the composer she loved. 1:48:30.840 --> 1:48:33.240 Her dad was a musician. He was a recording artist 1:48:33.280 --> 1:48:38.280 for him c a way back in the day. You know. Um, 1:48:38.320 --> 1:48:40.639 So she understands. She comes from the world of music 1:48:41.960 --> 1:48:45.920 her parents. Um. And I think she sees the excitement 1:48:46.040 --> 1:48:48.600 that I have when I'm working on a score. She 1:48:48.720 --> 1:48:52.040 understands the isolation that I have to go through to 1:48:52.080 --> 1:48:59.759 get there. Um. She understands why you know, I suddenly 1:48:59.800 --> 1:49:02.320 just added to move to Nashville, And she said, Okay, 1:49:02.320 --> 1:49:05.080 she's a California board and raised person. Um. But said, 1:49:05.160 --> 1:49:09.519 let's go And um, so you have to have somebody 1:49:09.520 --> 1:49:11.840 who's on board. But I don't think that can happen 1:49:11.880 --> 1:49:13.439 when you're in your twenties, because you don't know when 1:49:13.439 --> 1:49:15.280 your twenties and know in your twenties where you're gonna 1:49:15.280 --> 1:49:17.320 be in your forties and your fifties. You just don't know. 1:49:17.920 --> 1:49:20.960 And sorry, you have to have somebody who goes along 1:49:20.960 --> 1:49:24.840 for the ride. Okay, let's go back to Nashville. At 1:49:24.880 --> 1:49:27.680 the top, you talked about being a Jew in Nashville. 1:49:28.160 --> 1:49:34.120 We have the whole Kanye self immolation. We have Dave 1:49:34.280 --> 1:49:39.519 Chappelle talking about Jews on Saturday Night Live. We're recording. 1:49:39.520 --> 1:49:42.280 This is only a couple of days ago, and you 1:49:42.320 --> 1:49:45.759 wrote a piece about this, So give me your take. 1:49:46.200 --> 1:49:48.360 I could go deeper, but you know exactly what I'm 1:49:48.360 --> 1:49:54.840 talking about, Ah, Dave Chappelle, the normalization of anti Semitism, 1:49:54.880 --> 1:50:00.000 Thank you so much. Sarcasm by the way, UM, let's 1:50:00.040 --> 1:50:06.280 since I'm not a religious person. Um, most Jewish people 1:50:06.360 --> 1:50:12.759 I know are not. But culturally we are bound food 1:50:14.560 --> 1:50:18.519 where we're from, the way we talk, the way we think. 1:50:19.600 --> 1:50:23.240 You know, we're bound together through this culture. There's only 1:50:24.000 --> 1:50:29.960 but fourteen million of us on the planet. Um. But 1:50:30.200 --> 1:50:34.759 shocking news anti Semitism. There's nothing new. It's been around forever, 1:50:34.960 --> 1:50:40.799 thousands of years. UM. Every hundred years, history repeats itself. 1:50:41.760 --> 1:50:45.720 Look at the Spanish Inquisition, look at the programs we 1:50:45.760 --> 1:50:47.599 can keep going. When I did that one of those 1:50:47.640 --> 1:50:50.280 twenty three and me things was unbelievable. It was a 1:50:50.320 --> 1:50:54.880 map from Tunisia and Morocco to Portugal, to Spain, to 1:50:54.960 --> 1:50:58.000 France to Italy, belong all the way across to Croatia, 1:50:58.439 --> 1:51:04.559 straight up through you know, Austria, Hungary, Germany, Poland straight 1:51:04.640 --> 1:51:07.920 up to Finland which used to be Russia. That's a 1:51:08.000 --> 1:51:13.439 map of people fleeing, you know. Yeah, my kids said, 1:51:13.479 --> 1:51:16.120 oh my god, are we French? Well we probably were 1:51:16.400 --> 1:51:18.559 for twenty years or a hundred years. I have no 1:51:18.640 --> 1:51:22.439 freaking idea. So here we are again. Did we think 1:51:22.800 --> 1:51:27.760 that in ninety three through that that was the end 1:51:27.800 --> 1:51:33.400 of it? No way. So here we are with the 1:51:33.520 --> 1:51:42.200 current normalization of anti Semitism, the hatred that spews from 1:51:42.240 --> 1:51:50.360 the mouths of celebrities, politicians and just regular people. And 1:51:50.439 --> 1:51:52.680 I never thought, probably none of us ever thought in 1:51:52.840 --> 1:51:56.559 our lifetimes that we would be sitting here defending it 1:51:57.160 --> 1:52:01.120 like our relatives. Did you know we're more than a 1:52:01.200 --> 1:52:06.040 generation or two since World War Two. I've got a huge, wonderful, 1:52:06.080 --> 1:52:10.120 loving family in Israel. Secular family lives in Tel Aviv. 1:52:11.720 --> 1:52:14.719 I'm a liberal Zionist. None of us are bb people. 1:52:15.280 --> 1:52:18.479 We don't believe in settlements, we're not right wingers, were 1:52:18.520 --> 1:52:20.920 not religious. We don't spit it people when they walk 1:52:21.000 --> 1:52:24.599 down the streets. By the way, that's the majority of 1:52:24.640 --> 1:52:28.960 tel Aviv. We believe in rights. We believe in gay rights, 1:52:28.960 --> 1:52:31.200 we believe in equal women rights. We believe in equal 1:52:31.320 --> 1:52:36.240 rights for Arabs and everyone. Um, and here we are 1:52:36.280 --> 1:52:42.880 being hated again. We are not Israeli politics. I am 1:52:42.920 --> 1:52:48.240 not American politics. Tom York said it so well. I 1:52:48.280 --> 1:52:51.200 started an organization ten years ago with David Renzer called 1:52:51.240 --> 1:52:54.720 Creative Community for Peace that was about using music to 1:52:54.800 --> 1:52:58.519 build bridges, not through boycott, where you use music to 1:52:58.560 --> 1:53:00.880 bring people apart. I and the one thing that a 1:53:00.920 --> 1:53:04.320 Palestinian and an Israeli kid might have in common is Rihanna. 1:53:04.439 --> 1:53:08.120 For God's sake, Let's try to get bands to go 1:53:08.240 --> 1:53:11.880 to Tel Aviv and then go somewhere in the Arab world. 1:53:11.960 --> 1:53:15.360 Let's try to have music be the bridge. Elton John 1:53:15.400 --> 1:53:18.960 gets that. Lots of artists gets that, gets that, Lady 1:53:19.000 --> 1:53:25.400 Gaga gets that, Donna gets that. The list goes on. Um. 1:53:25.439 --> 1:53:30.559 I was. I felt this rise in anti Semitism, not 1:53:30.760 --> 1:53:33.759 just by through the organization, the nonprofit that I started 1:53:33.760 --> 1:53:38.920 with David, But I see the stats. I see what's 1:53:38.920 --> 1:53:42.160 happened in the last two three years. I heard Jews 1:53:42.160 --> 1:53:45.760 will not replace us, just like you heard it. They 1:53:45.760 --> 1:53:51.880 were taking down rightly so, taking down Confederate statues, and 1:53:51.880 --> 1:53:58.000 they were marching, yelling, about Jews. So you see this, 1:53:59.320 --> 1:54:03.120 I asked the question, you know, a couple of years ago, 1:54:03.160 --> 1:54:06.320 when did we as Jewish people stop being a minority? 1:54:06.600 --> 1:54:09.720 Because we are a minority. I'm actually in the middle 1:54:09.720 --> 1:54:12.759 of reading a book. When did Jewish people start becoming white? 1:54:13.520 --> 1:54:17.040 Because are we really white? You know? Sure? Okay, you 1:54:17.160 --> 1:54:19.200 we can we we we can get away with it. 1:54:20.680 --> 1:54:24.240 But remember that map I told you Tunisia, Morocco, all 1:54:24.280 --> 1:54:26.559 that stuff. I bet you I had a lot of 1:54:26.600 --> 1:54:29.880 relatives that didn't have this skin color. And then if 1:54:29.880 --> 1:54:32.080 you trace it back two thousand years, I guarantee you 1:54:32.120 --> 1:54:35.560 I had relatives that didn't have a skin color. So 1:54:35.960 --> 1:54:39.160 why are we suddenly hated again? Or have we just 1:54:39.200 --> 1:54:41.880 always been hated and it's just coming out? I said, yes, 1:54:41.880 --> 1:54:44.200 I'm gonna get political here. You know. One of the 1:54:44.240 --> 1:54:48.840 things that Trump did was when I lived in New York. 1:54:49.000 --> 1:54:51.600 Remember um, when we lived in New York, so many 1:54:51.640 --> 1:54:53.560 of us, and we come home at night after a 1:54:53.640 --> 1:54:55.200 day at work, and we turn into lights and all 1:54:55.200 --> 1:55:01.120 the cockroaches ran back in the cabinets. So Trump, by 1:55:01.240 --> 1:55:07.240 not by by supporting the Jews, will not replace us 1:55:07.280 --> 1:55:11.840 group in Charlottesville gave permission for the cabin for the 1:55:11.880 --> 1:55:14.680 cockroaches to stay out and not have to run back 1:55:14.680 --> 1:55:18.800 in the cabinet. My point is the cockroaches were always there. 1:55:18.920 --> 1:55:21.960 This is a racist country. Come on, look at the 1:55:22.000 --> 1:55:25.800 history of this country. It's a racist country. So anyway 1:55:25.840 --> 1:55:39.160 to answer your question, Pittsburgh synagogues shootings, Kanye West, he don't. 1:55:39.200 --> 1:55:43.560 Don't people who have voices and celebrity have some level 1:55:43.600 --> 1:55:48.680 of responsibility, you know, for him to say death not 1:55:48.840 --> 1:55:58.120 death death, con don't Kanye is meaningless. It's what he 1:55:58.240 --> 1:56:03.040 has create, helped to create. Kanye didn't invent anti Semitism, 1:56:03.080 --> 1:56:06.520 but he furthered it along because of those folks that 1:56:06.600 --> 1:56:09.920 dropped all those pamphlets in Los Angeles and stood on 1:56:09.960 --> 1:56:12.040 the bridges and the people that stood on the bridges 1:56:12.120 --> 1:56:15.800 with of Jacksonville with the signs that said Kanye is right. 1:56:17.240 --> 1:56:19.680 And then Dave Chappelle what he did on Saturday. I'm 1:56:19.720 --> 1:56:22.480 a fan of Dave Chappelle. I believe, you know, I 1:56:22.480 --> 1:56:29.960 could believe in complete free speech, but don't normalize hatred. 1:56:30.960 --> 1:56:35.360 I'm very concerned, deeply, deeply, deeply concerned about the relationship 1:56:35.400 --> 1:56:38.800 between the Jewish community and the Black community. We grew 1:56:38.920 --> 1:56:43.760 up arm in arm. Literally, my best friends were Jewish 1:56:43.800 --> 1:56:47.000 and they were Black. There was this commonality between us. 1:56:47.640 --> 1:56:49.600 We felt we had been put through hell in our 1:56:49.800 --> 1:56:57.280 histories and we're survivors, and yet people are I don't 1:56:57.320 --> 1:56:59.360 like what I see in the last couple of years, 1:56:59.400 --> 1:57:03.880 the riff between these communities that should be there. Yeah, 1:57:04.000 --> 1:57:06.560 I mean, sure we know Jews were there when Martin 1:57:06.600 --> 1:57:09.160 Luther King crossed the bridge. I get it, and but 1:57:09.200 --> 1:57:13.600 at the end of the day, the relationship is so 1:57:13.760 --> 1:57:20.959 deeply important for both communities, brotherhood and sisterhood, and it's damaged. 1:57:22.520 --> 1:57:25.320 And I'm very concerned about that. To be honest with you, 1:57:26.440 --> 1:57:29.560 I would expect that from rednecks living somewhere in this 1:57:29.640 --> 1:57:33.240 country or other whatever the equivalent is in Europe, people 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:37.360 who are ignorant and poorly informed. And I think that 1:57:37.560 --> 1:57:40.880 Jews run this or Jews run that. I haven't gotten 1:57:40.880 --> 1:57:43.600 a call, by the way, if there is a conspiracy conspiracy. 1:57:43.640 --> 1:57:46.240 Nobody called me about running a bank or running I mean, 1:57:46.320 --> 1:57:50.960 it's unbelievable. But I'm mostly and deeply concerned about the 1:57:51.040 --> 1:57:54.920 riff between the Jewish and the Black community. Additionally, and 1:57:54.960 --> 1:57:57.280 I saw this has come up lately, this is not 1:57:57.360 --> 1:58:00.440 original thought. But one of the things is that Dave 1:58:00.520 --> 1:58:03.200 Chappelle said that really deeply offended me, was using the 1:58:03.320 --> 1:58:09.200 term jew versus Jewish. This is an original thought to me. 1:58:09.240 --> 1:58:11.920 I think Michael Rappaport or somebody said this recently. But 1:58:12.760 --> 1:58:15.840 if you're Jewish, you can refer to me as a 1:58:15.960 --> 1:58:19.560 jew um. But if you're not, we are a part 1:58:19.600 --> 1:58:23.520 of a Jewish community. It is condescending. I'm saying this 1:58:23.640 --> 1:58:28.720 for anybody who will listen to me hear me. It's condescending, 1:58:28.880 --> 1:58:33.720 it's degrading. And I do not believe somebody says the 1:58:33.840 --> 1:58:41.600 Jews says that naively without meaning some level of anger 1:58:41.720 --> 1:58:46.040 anti Semitism attached to it. I think, you know, we 1:58:46.120 --> 1:58:49.560 deserve to take that phrase back. We really do, and 1:58:49.600 --> 1:58:51.840 I think we need to be loud now. The one 1:58:51.880 --> 1:58:56.120 thing that has changed in the last hundred years is 1:58:56.160 --> 1:59:00.320 that we have the ability to not just be out, 1:59:03.400 --> 1:59:06.320 but we have. We didn't have Israel, and again, remember 1:59:06.320 --> 1:59:09.680 where I started here. I'm a liberal Zionist, but my 1:59:09.880 --> 1:59:15.760 family in ninety one didn't have an army, and for that, 1:59:15.840 --> 1:59:18.560 I'm really proud of Israel. I do not like a 1:59:18.560 --> 1:59:21.280 lot of things the government does. I don't like a 1:59:21.280 --> 1:59:24.040 lot of things the American government does. Trust me, I'm 1:59:24.040 --> 1:59:29.800 a bleeding liberal. But what's going on? A friend of mine, 1:59:29.800 --> 1:59:32.640 who is the director of Creative Community for Peace, said 1:59:32.640 --> 1:59:36.080 it really well to me recently. Suddenly, in the last 1:59:36.080 --> 1:59:38.360 couple of years, Jews are getting squeeted out, squeezed out 1:59:38.360 --> 1:59:42.240 from the extreme right and the extreme left. When did 1:59:42.360 --> 1:59:45.120 Berkeley or U see I I just came from Irvine. 1:59:45.880 --> 1:59:49.480 Suddenly that's a hotbed of anti Semitism. So now we've 1:59:49.520 --> 1:59:54.800 got both sides, so we better do something about this. 1:59:55.120 --> 1:59:59.960 We gotter be loud. Guess what, everyone. We don't control Hollywood, 2:00:00.000 --> 2:00:02.600 guess whatever you and we don't control all the things 2:00:02.640 --> 2:00:06.680 that they say we control. We're smart. We're smart because 2:00:06.720 --> 2:00:11.160 our parents believed in education. That's why we're smart. That's 2:00:11.160 --> 2:00:15.080 why doctors are Jewish, doctors can be Indian, doctors can 2:00:15.120 --> 2:00:18.360 be Asian doctors cannot be in some of those. But 2:00:18.440 --> 2:00:22.440 our parents pushed on us what their parents weren't able 2:00:22.440 --> 2:00:28.160 to do. Education, Work your ass off, sleep as little 2:00:28.160 --> 2:00:32.920 as you can. That's why some of us might be successful. 2:00:33.000 --> 2:00:36.880 Not all of us are successful. You know, we're a 2:00:36.920 --> 2:00:41.040 part of the fabric of this world, and I can't 2:00:41.080 --> 2:00:44.960 imagine that we're gonna let anti Semitism rise to the 2:00:45.040 --> 2:00:48.120 heights again in this century as it did in the 2:00:48.200 --> 2:00:50.440 last and the one before that and the one before that. 2:00:50.800 --> 2:00:56.720 So Kanye West started a load of ship, you know, 2:00:57.280 --> 2:01:05.400 just malignant stupidity. I understand if he has mental illness, 2:01:06.160 --> 2:01:10.080 but that's not an excuse right now, because he has influence, 2:01:11.680 --> 2:01:18.240 significant influence, as do many other people right now. Marjorie 2:01:18.320 --> 2:01:23.280 Taylor Green, are you kidding me? This is one of 2:01:23.320 --> 2:01:26.360 the reasons why anti Semitary people really believe that we 2:01:26.400 --> 2:01:30.720 had lasers. I'm still waiting for a jet pack, God 2:01:30.800 --> 2:01:35.040 damn it to get me across town a laser. It's 2:01:35.080 --> 2:01:42.440 amazing how gullible, ignorant, and hateful so many people are. 2:01:43.200 --> 2:01:45.800 So I want to be very vocal about it. I 2:01:45.800 --> 2:01:50.080 don't want to be one of these complacent American Jewish people, 2:01:51.280 --> 2:01:56.240 just like the German complacent Jewish people of two where 2:01:56.280 --> 2:01:59.080 they were more proud to be German than they were 2:01:59.120 --> 2:02:05.920 to be Jewish. That didn't get them far. So I'm angry, 2:02:07.560 --> 2:02:11.600 angry in a good way, and I don't know, you know, 2:02:11.840 --> 2:02:16.720 I had a experience in Nashville where I've never had 2:02:17.440 --> 2:02:22.240 poor experiences with anything, you know, anti Semitic wise, I 2:02:22.280 --> 2:02:25.200 got thrown out of an uber car in June or 2:02:25.240 --> 2:02:27.480 July because I was talking to our head of Swedish 2:02:27.520 --> 2:02:30.840 studios on non Jew by the way, I can say 2:02:30.920 --> 2:02:34.000 jee because I'm Jewish. And I guess the uber driver 2:02:34.200 --> 2:02:35.840 heard me talking to him about how I was going 2:02:35.840 --> 2:02:37.760 to visit my family in Israel. And the guy pulled 2:02:37.760 --> 2:02:39.680 over and says, get out of the car, you fucking jew, 2:02:39.720 --> 2:02:43.560 you dirty jew. What I mean? First, for me, I've 2:02:43.560 --> 2:02:47.880 read about this, it's actually happening. And I said, excuse me. 2:02:47.920 --> 2:02:50.760 I mean, I was shaking and I was shocked. I 2:02:50.880 --> 2:02:54.200 wanted to jump out of the car and go let's go, buddy. 2:02:54.240 --> 2:02:55.360 But he said to me, if you don't get in 2:02:55.440 --> 2:02:56.760 the car right now, I'm gonna get out and pummel 2:02:56.840 --> 2:03:00.720 your face into the ground. And I believed him, so 2:03:00.760 --> 2:03:03.520 I got out of the car. I walked up the 2:03:03.840 --> 2:03:05.800 I walked down to my house, which is a few down. 2:03:05.840 --> 2:03:08.160 I walked up this gigantic hill I live in live 2:03:08.240 --> 2:03:12.200 On and I said to my wife, Um, it's time. 2:03:12.560 --> 2:03:16.600 And I know that sounds dramatic, and I told her 2:03:16.600 --> 2:03:19.360 the story and I said it's time not to leave. 2:03:19.520 --> 2:03:23.080 Not that you know six year ago thing where so 2:03:23.160 --> 2:03:25.840 many of us said if Trump wins weren't moving to Canada. No, 2:03:26.080 --> 2:03:29.800 this time it was we need to get a passport 2:03:29.920 --> 2:03:34.160 somewhere else just in case. I'm not saying I'm going 2:03:34.240 --> 2:03:38.680 to move now. How am I going to get a 2:03:38.720 --> 2:03:43.560 British or a Canadian or another passport? But I can 2:03:43.560 --> 2:03:49.120 get an Israeli passport that law of return, So I 2:03:49.120 --> 2:03:53.280 can't believe I'm doing that. I'm doing that and I 2:03:53.320 --> 2:03:59.320 hope to never have to use it. Um my entire 2:03:59.400 --> 2:04:05.400 family and as real again, this secular liberal freethinking, why 2:04:05.560 --> 2:04:07.960 you were we why are we building settlements? How how 2:04:08.000 --> 2:04:11.360 do we create a two state solution? Huge amount of 2:04:11.400 --> 2:04:15.840 beautiful family that I have are all there because one 2:04:16.040 --> 2:04:22.760 person survived the Holocaust and he created this incredible family. 2:04:22.920 --> 2:04:26.720 And my cousins and my relatives married people who I 2:04:26.800 --> 2:04:29.200 consider to be my sisters and brothers, even though we're 2:04:29.200 --> 2:04:33.200 not quote blood relatives. And they come from one person 2:04:34.160 --> 2:04:36.680 who now at eighties something, when she was seven, saw 2:04:36.720 --> 2:04:40.120 her father shot in front of her in Paris, and 2:04:40.200 --> 2:04:43.040 they fled to the south of France and got hidden 2:04:43.120 --> 2:04:46.840 from house to house to house until they could get 2:04:48.040 --> 2:04:51.640 to what was going to become Israel. And I'm sitting 2:04:51.640 --> 2:04:57.720 here in front of people who are survivors because of 2:04:57.760 --> 2:05:03.920 horrible things, and I never thought we'd be here having 2:05:03.920 --> 2:05:08.200 to talk about this again. But that's naive. Um So. 2:05:10.160 --> 2:05:13.200 I I just have no tolerance for anti Semitism, by 2:05:13.240 --> 2:05:19.080 the way, just like I have no tolerance for racism, misogyny, 2:05:19.360 --> 2:05:24.600 anybody who speaks out against the LGBTQ community. We were 2:05:24.680 --> 2:05:29.240 raised as Jewish people to stand up for everyone who 2:05:29.320 --> 2:05:33.520 is being oppressed or hurt or or or anything, anybody 2:05:33.560 --> 2:05:39.000 who's being bullied upon. That's how we were raised. And 2:05:39.040 --> 2:05:43.560 I would just hope in this century that these other 2:05:43.600 --> 2:05:52.400 communities this time will stand up for us too. Okay, Now, Seinfeld, 2:05:52.800 --> 2:05:57.200 legendarily George was Jewish and they changed his religion because 2:05:57.240 --> 2:05:59.760 they didn't want the show to be Jewish. To what 2:06:00.040 --> 2:06:02.560 degree with the people in the music industry who are 2:06:02.760 --> 2:06:06.800 Jewish afraid to stand up and own it, and what 2:06:06.920 --> 2:06:10.360 could be done in terms of the communities we touch? Yeah, 2:06:10.400 --> 2:06:14.080 I mean, I I loved that George thing you just said. 2:06:16.240 --> 2:06:19.160 It's very similar, like I said, to what happened a hundred. 2:06:19.320 --> 2:06:22.480 You know, eighty, I should say eighty years ago in Germany. 2:06:22.760 --> 2:06:26.000 You know, if we just assimilate, if we just bury ourselves, 2:06:26.360 --> 2:06:30.200 pretend we're not Jewish. Don't go to don't go to synagogue, 2:06:30.240 --> 2:06:31.960 or only go once a year, but don't tell anybody 2:06:31.960 --> 2:06:35.480 go to work after you go to synagogue. Russia's Shanna, 2:06:36.600 --> 2:06:39.200 you know. Don't wear it on your sleeve, don't wear 2:06:39.200 --> 2:06:41.680 a higher on your neck, don't put a massos on 2:06:41.680 --> 2:06:44.520 your door, because the ups guy will know you're Jewish. 2:06:44.680 --> 2:06:50.120 Let's try to just fall in line. Guess what, you're Jewish. 2:06:50.360 --> 2:06:55.120 They know you're Jewish. They hate you anyway. My grandmother 2:06:55.200 --> 2:06:57.120 used to say that to me, they hate us because 2:06:57.120 --> 2:06:59.960 we're Jewish. She got fired for her job at eight 2:07:00.040 --> 2:07:02.920 T and T in whatever, the thirties of the forties 2:07:02.960 --> 2:07:05.840 because she took off for Young Kippoor and they said, wait, 2:07:05.880 --> 2:07:11.800 you're Jewish. Don't come back. And so, yeah, we can assimilate, 2:07:11.840 --> 2:07:13.760 we can hide, we can become a part of all 2:07:13.840 --> 2:07:18.600 the white nss in America we want. But they know 2:07:18.640 --> 2:07:23.760 you're Jewish, So why not be proud of it? You know, 2:07:24.520 --> 2:07:27.560 I again, I say this again, that doesn't mean religious. 2:07:28.920 --> 2:07:31.720 I'm not saying go to synagogue on Friday night. I'm 2:07:31.720 --> 2:07:36.680 not an organized religion guy in any religion, by the way, 2:07:37.160 --> 2:07:41.440 But your culture is which culture is. Okay, you are 2:07:41.440 --> 2:07:49.040 who you are. So music business, hey, there's Jewish people 2:07:49.040 --> 2:07:53.040 in it, there's non Jewish people in it. I've worked 2:07:53.040 --> 2:07:54.800 for a lot of Jewish people in the music business. 2:07:54.800 --> 2:07:56.320 I've worked for a lot of non Jewish people in 2:07:56.320 --> 2:08:00.920 the music business. They didn't bring their Jewishness to the music. 2:08:01.360 --> 2:08:05.560 They did bring their jewishness to the label. Okay, we 2:08:05.680 --> 2:08:08.120 all maybe the office was a little emptier on Russia 2:08:08.160 --> 2:08:11.440 Shaanna in New York. But guess what, that's not what 2:08:11.520 --> 2:08:17.720 Dave Chappelle made that just heinous, asinine comment about I've 2:08:17.720 --> 2:08:20.960 been to Hollywood and I'm gonna unfortunately paraphrase it. But 2:08:21.560 --> 2:08:25.400 there's a lot of Jews in the business. Well, guess what. 2:08:26.360 --> 2:08:28.960 New York has the biggest Jewish population in the world. 2:08:29.240 --> 2:08:32.080 Jerusalem is the second Jewish biggest population in the world. 2:08:32.120 --> 2:08:34.960 Los Angeles is the third biggest Jewish population in the world, 2:08:35.200 --> 2:08:39.760 and Tel Aviv has the fourth. That's a population thing. 2:08:40.440 --> 2:08:46.720 This isn't a control thing. So you know, I just 2:08:46.800 --> 2:08:53.560 think Jewish people don't need to necessarily suddenly go all religious. 2:08:54.440 --> 2:08:57.040 But you can't hide from who you are. Be proud 2:08:57.080 --> 2:09:01.560 of it. I am. I'm proud for where I come from. 2:09:01.600 --> 2:09:05.000 I'm proud from the cultural things that I've learned because 2:09:05.040 --> 2:09:09.080 of it. You know, I'm I'm dead against some of 2:09:09.080 --> 2:09:11.560 the politics that come out of Israel, particularly in this 2:09:11.680 --> 2:09:15.680 up and coming regime BB part whatever, but I'm certainly 2:09:15.720 --> 2:09:19.800 proud of the contributions that country has made. I'm really 2:09:19.840 --> 2:09:22.560 proud of it. I have I have pride in that, 2:09:23.760 --> 2:09:26.760 just like somebody who's from Ireland has pride and things 2:09:26.800 --> 2:09:29.000 that come from there. People that are British have pride. 2:09:29.240 --> 2:09:32.240 I have pride. I'm not gonna apologize for that, and 2:09:32.280 --> 2:09:35.280 I'm not gonna hide. And if you hate me because 2:09:35.280 --> 2:09:38.120 I'm Jewish, ego, funk yourself and be you just don't 2:09:38.120 --> 2:09:43.560 know me. Been scapegoats forever and we're gonna be scapegoats 2:09:43.560 --> 2:09:45.400 in a hundred years and three hundred years and five 2:09:45.440 --> 2:09:47.520 hundre years. But for God's sake, can we at least 2:09:47.560 --> 2:09:50.760 all suddenly have a voice. And I feel we need 2:09:50.800 --> 2:09:54.160 to hide. I don't know if that answers your question, 2:09:54.240 --> 2:09:57.160 but that's how I feel. Well, I you know, I 2:09:57.240 --> 2:10:00.320 hope that a lot of people hear that, because normally 2:10:00.440 --> 2:10:04.320 use your message good. So is the delivery certainly much 2:10:04.360 --> 2:10:07.040 better than good? Now I knew you know, you flew 2:10:07.240 --> 2:10:11.640 from so Cal over a couple of time zones to Nashville. 2:10:12.040 --> 2:10:13.760 So I think we've come to the end of the 2:10:13.800 --> 2:10:17.520 feeling we've known, even though we could talk for much 2:10:17.640 --> 2:10:20.400 more time. But you've really been fantastic, Steve. I want 2:10:20.400 --> 2:10:24.320 to thank you for taking the time unbelievable and thank you, 2:10:24.400 --> 2:10:28.080 thank you, thank you. I'm so glad to reconnect with you. 2:10:28.640 --> 2:10:31.360 I had such amazing memories of you and I sitting 2:10:31.360 --> 2:10:34.000 across the dinner table together, and I remember wanting to 2:10:34.000 --> 2:10:39.080 talk non stop with you, and I'm just so grateful. 2:10:39.280 --> 2:10:41.640 I'm great. You know. That begs a couple more questions 2:10:41.680 --> 2:10:43.800 that I want to ask you about you, But as 2:10:43.880 --> 2:10:49.120 I say, that's it for today, Okay, fine, thank you 2:10:49.480 --> 2:10:51.960 until next time. This is Bob left set